# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Which WaterProofing Product

## Big Rick

Hey Guys 
Im redoing my bathroom and up to the waterproofing stage the bedding is already layed. 
I have rendered brick walls 
I was originally looking at using emerclad because of its ease of use and have been told its very hard wearing however i am now leaning towards using a polyurethane based product on advice thats its longer lasting and stronger. 
I plan to use the polyurtane selaent in the corners and than use the poly cloth and than do 2 coats of the mebrane. 
WHICH POLYUTHANE PRODUCT IS THE BEST? 
Do you know where i can buy it from in Sydney? 
Thanks for your help guys your imput is greattly appreciated

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## Animalector

I have heard good things about the Ardex WPM001 superflex, it's a one part water proofing membrane easy to use in the same manor you have described.  From what I can tell after speaking with the Ardex technical help line, it is the essentially the same product as the Dunlop Under Tile Waterproofing, which sells for $189 for 15L at Bunnies.  I have read articles from "home rennovator" type sites that have used and recommend the Dunlop product, so it can't be all bad.  Beaumont tiles is where I will probably buy my Ardex WPM001 from. 
There are others such as the Davco K10 product (yellow barrel) but I don't know anyone who has used it.   
Goodluck 
Andy

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## Big Rick

Thanks for that yeah it looks alright similar to emerclad but i have heard that the water based membranes are not as good as the polyurethane ones 
Opinions?

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## AIRMAN

With brick I don't think it's as important as when you have timber frames, I recently did one of our bathrooms, it was a fully tiled shower hob, 35 years old, no waterproofing and not one sign of any moisture damage.  
If you tile well with a good quality glue and the use good grout and seal it and use good silicon on joints I think it's very unlikely your waterproofing will ever be needed. I only got mine done to get the cert for when I sell the house. Timber houses are a different story.

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## Gooner

Waterproofing is a fairly cheap and easy job. For the time and money invested, I certainly think it is worth the peace of mind regardless the construction. 
I certainly would not be depending on the tile adhesive and grout to be waterproofing my bathroom.

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## juan

Having seen damaged walls in the bathroom of a solid home there is no way I would not waterproof. Totally agree with Gooner. 
Cheers

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## Gooner

Another way to look at it is that typically a complete bathroom renovation costs in the thousands of dollars. Waterproofing is a small fraction of the overall cost. You could waterproof your entire bathroom yourself for around $250. That would include complete shower, complete floor, and 300mm up walls on a typicaly size bathroom.  
If you take a shortcut by not waterproofing and then find down the track you have some kind of leak problem, chances are high the repair will cost many times that of the waterproofing.

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## Big Rick

I can attest to the importance of waterproofing 
The old bathroom i ripped out was water tight for the most part but they did not waterproof under the bath (wall) over time the water has gone through the brick wall dissolved render in between the bricks and on the other side and also rotted the skirting boards 
In my mums unit as well brick construction it went through teh wall and rotted the carpet on the other side as well as lifted the paint off the wall 
Back to the original problem i dont wanna stuff this up and am after a good product to use

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## Gooner

Very recently I used the Dunlop Waterproofing product, (which IS the the same as the Ardex WPM001) on my ensuite. This was on villaboard walls and tile underlay on the floor. Primed the walls and floor first with the primer stuff. (I am quite sure the primer is simply overpriced diluted PVA... but it did a good job). 
Personally I am happy with it. Seems to have adhered well. However, we do have different sustrates. 
I would be trying to select one manufacturer that produces both the waterproofer and the tile adhesive to ensure they are compatible.

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## tricky4000

I used Dunlop on a fully timber home.  Every time I've poked my head under the shower and around the walls to check for possible moisture or leakage...never noticed anything different.  I think you'll be safe with a water based membrane.  I think its law you do your whole bathroom now...but I could be wrong.

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## autogenous

Please do not take this the wrong way. I have never seen such attention to detail on waterproofing products for wet areas. 
Maybe its an Eastern States thing in stud frame housing? 
Up till ten to say 15 years ago some wet areas didn't even have water proofing to the walls in many West Aussie homes. Even now most builders do the base and internal corners of the shower only. 
Now people are passionate about water proofing.Dont get me wrong, it is good to see. Water ingress is one of the highest and most costly maintenance issues in new homes. 
Sorry for destroying anyone's train of thought.  
Carry on.

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## intertd6

when it comes to waterproofing & spending a lot of money on one of the most expensive rooms in the house I would always recommend getting a qualified licenced tradesman to do this job, for a little extra cost if something leaks down the track (7 years) you can get it fixed under warranty. The reason an Australian Standard was brought out on wet areas is because it was one of the biggest defects in the housing industry. Also the waterproofing should be below your tile bedding. 
regards inter

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## AIRMAN

> Also the waterproofing should be below your tile bedding. 
> regards inter

  
I would like to know why you say that, I did it like that on my first bathroom but after talking to a tiler and other including on her I have done the previous two with the water proofing over the screed. The reason being is that if you put it under the screed and water does get to the waterproofing, because there is no slope to the drain it is just going to sit there, if you do it on top of the screed and put your puddle/leak control flange there if water gets to it it is on a slope and is going to drain. I tiler told me of a job where they had put it under the screed and the shower leaked, because it couldn't drain the water went rancid, the smell got so bad the owner got them to retile.

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## intertd6

thats why they brought out a standard, there has to be upturn barriers at shower entrys & at doorways. From memory the only time you could lay it on the screed is where the wet area finish was the membrane ie, welded vinyl sheet flooring or similar
inter

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## AIRMAN

Ok so the use of angles at doors and in the shower area contains any leak to that area but it still doesn't address the fact that once the water is under the screed and sitting on the waterproofing it has no where to go, it can't evaporate and it can't really drain well. 
I know what AS 3740 says after the waterproofing under the screed but you look at most of the manufactures websites and they list that as the Australian Standard but put the preferred method as having it over the screed, Davco for example. 
What I was asking is, do they have a logical reason for making the standard this way and am I missing something. The pro waterproofer I had do my bathroom said he would do it either way and it was up to me. He said when working for builders he always does it to AS 3740 but when doing private work he allways recomends that it be placed over the screed.

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## Big Rick

Waterproofing is not that hard really 
I went with a product called dampfix gold from ASA which is a water based one with polyurethane fibers in it 
its a good compramise betwwen the plain acrylic ones and the polyuthrane chemical one 
Prices in sydney change dramatically from one store to the next but i got it from TVS tiles in Casula for $125 for a 15 liter drum Fontana tiles at Wetherill park also had it for $130 everywhere else was around $200 
It uses silicone as a bond breaker instead of a poly cloth after painstakingly putting the silicone on i would prefer just to use the poly cloth with hindsight 
If you on a schedule its best to put 4 reallly thin coats ratehr than 2 thick coats i have found out the hard way as the most important thing is with waterproofing is letting it dry between coats and tiling 
its not important to do it below the screed but if you do it must be sloped the majority of people recomend you do over the screed as in most cases other than new slabs below the scred is a pretty rough surface anyway.

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## Vernonv

> It uses silicone as a bond breaker instead of a poly cloth after painstakingly putting the silicone on i would prefer just to use the poly cloth with hindsight

  The poly cloth is used as reinforcement over a bond breaker and not as a bond breaker itself. Often you use both - the silicone for the bond breaker (to allow movement between floor and wall) and the polycloth to reinforce the area and stop the waterproof membrane from cracking/splitting.

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## intertd6

If you think about it how can the membrane go on the screed A. the safe waste trays have to go on level surfaces not on a conical sloping screed  B. Tiles will not go over the correct bond breaker at the wall / floor junctions C. the shower recess has to have a hob turnup
 The case you mentioned about the water getting under the screed & the causing problems has nothing to do with the waterproofing.  It did its job correctly, it was the screed or tiling that has failed above it.  Any waterproofer that does work & not comply with the relevant Standard could lose their licence for defective works
All standards do allow for alternate methods to be used that manufacturers, engineers have proven to meet or exceed the standard, but in this case the wall / floor junctions where there is differential movements betweens different materials, the bondbreaker design is critical
inter

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## bcaso

Floor wall joint.  
sit galv angle down first then nail tile underlay  to the floor and villaboard on the wall.  Fill the join with siksflex and lay another angle over the top of the join.  Then Bostik Ultraseal over the whole bathroom twice.  Thats how I did it....Hope water does not get through :Redface:

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## Big Rick

In reply 
I put it down as stated above following manufactures instructions above the screed its critical to not make the bond breaker too thick so the tiles don't have to come out too far  
@ intertd6 youre saying that waste trays have to be on a level surface??? they would be useless if that was the case  
a decent screed will have a slight drop down to the wastes which the waterproofing, glue and finally tiles follow so the idea is that 99% of the water flows straoight off the tiles into the waste than the bit that gets through the grout will follow the course along the waterproofing down into the drain (you also dress the membrane into the drain) 
Ill post pics of the completed job guys the bathroom looks good its been 3 months now and no water is getting through the membrane 
all up it cost me about $6k

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