# Forum Home Renovation Landscaping, Gardening & Outdoors  Joining treated pine sleepers

## snowyskiesau

I'm about to build a vegie garden using 200x100mm treated sleepers.
The plan is to lay 2 of these on top of each other on the 100mm edge so as to get the height I need without having to buy too many sleepers (it's a rented house). 
What's the recommended way to join sleepers?

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## Cobber

You can buy those steel H pieces and end pieces.  The sleepers just slot into them...easy...try Mitre 10 or your nursery.

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## Bleedin Thumb

If it was me I wouldnt have my vegies anywhere near treated pine! even if theyre not cca the other treatment methods are all (or at least mostly copper based). Copper in large concentrations is toxic to plants and it does leach out.
Having said that it would probable take a few years and only effect the first 100 -150mm of soil nearest your timber.
If I havent detered you yet  :Tongue:  the best way to build it with the sleepers on edge is to place a sleeper off cut in each corner that you can coach bolt your wall to. Have them buried deep enough so that theyre stable after you backfill and compact - about 400 under ground 200 mm above ground. Line the inside with geotextile to stop the soil washing out the joins. 
EDIT just noticed your location... dont worry about the copper what your copping under the flight path makes _that_ pale into insignificance :Biggrin: 
PS Never seen the H pieces Cobber spoke of..sound too easy

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## Bodgy

What B Thumb says, re the construction. I always add the galvanised hoop iron evry metre or so to lock the courses together and to bind the joins. 
Incidentally, to finish the wall, try mixing up a little yellow brickies oxice, with some grey cement and adding water plus some Bondcrete. Paint on and before its dry chuck handfuls of sand at it. 
You'll end up with a faux sandstone wall.

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## snowyskiesau

> If it was me I wouldnt have my vegies anywhere near treated pine! even if theyre not cca the other treatment methods are all (or at least mostly copper based). Copper in large concentrations is toxic to plants and it does leach out.
> Having said that it would probable take a few years and only effect the first 100 -150mm of soil nearest your timber.
> If I havent detered you yet  the best way to build it with the sleepers on edge is to place a sleeper off cut in each corner that you can coach bolt your wall to. Have them buried deep enough so that theyre stable after you backfill and compact - about 400 under ground 200 mm above ground. Line the inside with geotextile to stop the soil washing out the joins. 
> EDIT just noticed your location... dont worry about the copper what your copping under the flight path makes _that_ pale into insignificance
> PS Never seen the H pieces Cobber spoke of..sound too easy

  Thanks Bleedin Thumb, that makes me feel a whole lot better, kerosene from the air and copper from the ground.
Still,  I live on such a busy street, the carbon monoxide will get me long before the other two do so I'm on a winner  :Biggrin:  
One suggestion I got elsewhere was to get some Y12 reo cut into 1 metre lengths, drill a hole through both sleepers and drive the reo through into the ground. 
Might give the faux sandstone a go too.

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## Sturdee

> I'm about to build a vegie garden using 200x100mm treated sleepers.
> The plan is to lay 2 of these on top of each other on the 100mm edge so as to get the height I need without having to buy too many sleepers (it's a rented house). 
> What's the recommended way to join sleepers?

  Some of the suggestions made are great but IMO overkill and very expensive and as you say you are in a rented house. I have built many raised garden beds using TP sleepers and this is what I do. 
I use the 200*50mm sleepers (half the cost  :Biggrin:  ) on edge and nail them together using 100*4.5mm nails. The second layer is made similarly but instead of nailing it to the bottom layer I nail some of cuts in the corners that hook over the inside of the bottom layer thus stopping movement.  
This is so that when the sleepers shrink, and they do :eek: , there will not be any unsightly gaps for soil to fall out of. This method is adequate if the garden bed height is only 2 sleepers tall.  I also paint the outside with ordinary cheap fence paint from Bunnings to match the fence. 2 coats are necessary for TP. 
If any of the treatment stuff leaches out into the soil, something that will take many years, it will only affect the soil within say 100mm of the edge and most vegies are normally planted further apart from the edge as most need 300 mm separation. So no plastic etc is needed. 
The first planting boxes that I built like this are now 15 years old and still standing so my method works and it is cheap and easy to pull apart when you move so you can take the sleepers with you.  
Peter.

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## jimc

Built my wifes vegie garden (10x3m) from redgum sleepers layed on edge two layers high all held together with steel rod. 
I dug a shallow trench to bed the "foot" of the wall into, drilled 16mm holes right through all the sleepers, 800mm in from each end. Hint use extensions on a speedbore bit.
Cut the steel rod to be height of wall plus 1 metre below ground and hit them though the wall of sleepers with a sledgie. 
My old man used this technique over 20years ago and his is still going strong. Just ensure you select your sleepers to avoid splitting over time. 
Oh and avoid treated sleepers for a vegie garden...remeber we were all told that agent orange/DDT/tholidomide etc was safe

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## Farm boy

Hi geoff
we have had various vegie gardens now and found the best results from just turning the soil with a spade add manure and compost rotary hoe the lot and bingo garden patch ready to plant in.
or being a rented place how about buying some large pots or foam fruit boxes and have a garden in them and saves the hassle of getting sleepers
cheers
greg

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## snowyskiesau

Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm going to go with 1 metre lengths of 12mm reo steel (as suggested by *jimc*).
and tie the joins together with galvinised strap.
I don't think I'll bother with any lining. The sleepers are replacing a similar raised bed I
 built out of treated pine logs some 14 years ago and I didn't notice any real problems
with soil falling out through the gaps (except when I forgot to water the garden).

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## MurrayD99

We used sleepers on their flat sides to create six individual plots. This is plenty, given we are on flat land. Do you really need to go 2 high?  A man could easily trip over such a structure late at night, searching for strawberries...

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## silentC

Really, you are making it hard for yourself. Sturdee's method is the way to go. All you need are some offcuts (which you will probably end up with anyway) and some 3" nails, or I sometimes use 90mm hex drive timber screws. No need to drill holes or buy anything else. 
For the ones I have built, I get an offcut that is about twice as long as the width of one board. Dig a bit of a hole for it, lay out your bottom row, nail them at the corners, nail or screw the offcut so it sits 4 inches or so below the bottom of the first board, nail or screw it to the first board, then lay your second row on top and nail or screw it to the offcut. The offcut doubles as a joiner and a post to keep it all in place. I put them in each corner and sometimes on in the guts as well depending on the length of the run. It wont go anywhere. I have built low retaining walls this way by making the post a bit longer and putting a bit of concrete in the hole.

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## snowyskiesau

> We used sleepers on their flat sides to create six individual plots. This is plenty, given we are on flat land. Do you really need to go 2 high?  A man could easily trip over such a structure late at night, searching for strawberries...

  The block slopes so at one end of the garden, it will only be one sleeper high with about 150mm above ground level down to the other end which will be about 350mm above
 ground. Total length of the garden will be 6 metres and about 1 metre wide (backyard is 7 metres wide by 28 metres in length)
I bought the sleepers (200x75x3000mm)  based on this garden dimension so there will be no offcuts  :Frown:

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## silentC

Go and buy a 2.4 length of 2x3 TP then  :Wink:

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## Eddie Jones

I don't know why you lot are so worried about the health effects of treated pine. We raised 3 kids partly on vegies from treated pine vegie beds, and only two of them had 12 toes.

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## jimc

My experience is you do not need to tie ends together at all...just butt join them. This is enough to stop soil escaping from the raised garden. 
best of luck

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## Bleedin Thumb

> My experience is you do not need to tie ends together at all...just butt join them. This is enough to stop soil escaping from the raised garden. 
> best of luck

  I wouldnt be sure about that if they were up on edge. Laid flat I would agree.
Pining them with rio rods is ok if you have a long enough auger bit ie $25-$30. It makes the extra sleeper that Silent suggests look cheap. :Rolleyes:

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## ernknot

What??? No one has used the Domino for this?

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## snowyskiesau

> What??? No one has used the Domino for this?

  Well I was going to use the chainsaw to cut dovetails to join the lengths together with moritse and tenon joints for the corners.  :Biggrin:  
I think I'll go with Silentc's idea of using a length of 2x3 TP as I have a length of that under the house so no extra delivery ($$$) required.

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