# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  When To Use A Washer On Wheels/Axles?

## abrogard

This is a bit of a dumb one, I know. 
 I have this heavy Transarc 200 welder and I decided to put wheels under it.  Two wheels, two castors, you know, to make it easy to move around. 
 And just a week ago I put a new wheel on my old wheelbarrow. 
 That new wheel came with these black plastic things about an inch long that I took to be some kind of spacer. I needed spacers.  To centre the wheel between the legs which were wide enough apart for a much wider wheel way back in history some time. So I had to cut more spacers, another couple, one each side, for the black plastic gizmos were not long enough. 
So I put it together:  a washer next to the split pin, then the leg of the barrow, then another washer, then the black plastic thing, then my metal spacer (bit of 3/4 pipe) and then the wheel axle.  The other side the same. 
On the welder I started loading up the axle with a washer between the split pin and the wheel and then a washer between the wheel and the frame. And the same on the other side. 
And I suddenly thought to myself - what am i doing with these bloody washers?  I'm just chucking them in everywhere and I don't know why?  They're half spacer, half washer and half appearance.  I don't know what I'm doing.  I'm a dickhead. 
When should I use a washer? 
How to setup a wheel on an axle?  Including how to set it up when it needs spacers?

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## Oldsaltoz

I suspect the rule of thumb is :Redface:  
If you have enough space to fit a washer between two rotating objects or one rotating object and fixed end usually with a nut, then add a washer. 
Far better to replace a worn washer rather than a worn wheelbarrow front fork. 
Good luck and fair winds.

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## Marc

A (flat) washer is used for different reasons. In a bolting situation under the nut it prevents damage to the material that is being bolted down when you tighten the nut. A washer has a larger surface so the pressure from the nut is distributed on a larger surface. In the case of a wheel, the nut on the shaft is supposed to be tight enough so it does not come loose, so you need the nut tight against the shaft but not compressing the wheel. Usually this can be achieved with a step on the shaft or a tube over it, so the nut can be tightened against the step, a large flat washer will act as a spacer and prevent the wheel from rubbing against the small and sharp edged nut. Not much to it, common sense really, those pesky little wheels stamped from thin gage steel need all the help you can give them so as long as there is not too many of them that prevents you from tightening the nut, and the wheel turns freely and square, you will be OK ...  :Smilie:

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## abrogard

So how would you rationalise this mess:    
The one on the right is on end of the axle to go under the welder.  That reddish piece of steel on the inside will be welded to the frame and the same at the other side.

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## ringtail

On the wheelbarrow you want to get rid of the nylon or put a washer on each side if. It will chew out otherwise. So, from the bearing I would go .....washer - tube spacer - washer - barrow frame - washer - splitpin 
the nylon adds nothing. Just cut some longer tube spacers but you definitely need a washer between the tube and the bearing and tube and frame. 
with the smaller wheel, a washer between the bearing boss and the steel is fine. Give all mating surfaces some grease. There is nothing  critical about any of it. As long as the bearings/wheels/axles can take the load and they dont flog around it's all good.

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## abrogard

> On the wheelbarrow you want to get rid of the nylon or put a washer on each side if. It will chew out otherwise. So, from the bearing I would go .....washer - tube spacer - washer - barrow frame - washer - splitpin 
> the nylon adds nothing. Just cut some longer tube spacers but you definitely need a washer between the tube and the bearing and tube and frame. 
> with the smaller wheel, a washer between the bearing boss and the steel is fine. Give all mating surfaces some grease. There is nothing  critical about any of it. As long as the bearings/wheels/axles can take the load and they dont flog around it's all good.

  Thanks for that. 
So on the smaller wheel - the welder - I should put a washer each side of the wheel?  Frame, washer, wheel, washer, split pin? 
That's going to mean cutting another axle.  I thought that might happen.  Outsmarted myself this time, trying to  be too accurate.   :Smilie:  
Yep, of course I know there's nothing critical about it here in this application.  I'm using it to try get some understanding so's if I ever had a kinda more serious application to shim up or washer up...

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## ringtail

Is there going to be a steel plate on both sides of the wheel ? If not, there should be. The axle needs support on both sides of the wheel for decent durability. So you want frame, washer, wheel, washer, frame, washer, split pin.

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## abrogard

Oh, woops. Nope.  I was just going to have the axle going through a steel plate at each side like the wheelbarrow does, except the welder has two wheels, one at each end outside the plates rather than one wheel inside the plates. 
Well in fact I'm thinking of something much like all these pics: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=w...GMwmp3qN5S4%3D

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## PlatypusGardens

For the welder trolley......find yourself an old shopping trolley and use the wheels off that.   :Smilie:

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## Marc

> So how would you rationalise this mess:

  Ha ha, I actually like it!
I would just leave it as it is and observe how it works, which part chews out what. Then you can decide what to change.

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## Marc

Shopping trolley ... mm ... you can fish them out of your local creek, I know I can ... unfortunately.

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## ringtail

The whees like the welding trolley will be fine. As long as the load isn't too heavy you should get decent life out of them. Provided you dont drag it across a paddock  :Biggrin:

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## PlatypusGardens

Jesus...what a rant..... 
All that to put some wheels on a trolley   :Unsure:

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## abrogard

> Jesus...what a rant..... 
> All that to put some wheels on a trolley

  Is that better?   :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

Well....I enjoyed the rant....no need to delete it  :Smilie:  
Anyway, Back to your welding trolley.
Any progress?

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## abrogard

watch this space...   shelves and kids to the pool today...  maybe tomorrow....

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## PlatypusGardens

You take your shelves to the pool? 
Must get some funny looks....

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## abrogard

I get some funny looks whatever I do. Or see some funny looks at any rate. No, I shelve the shelving before pooling the boys. 
Following day: 
Here you go:  
It's lovely how a great chunk of obstinate immovable iron turns into a finger tip controlled swinging, swirling, pirouetting little darling once you put some wheels on her. 
Dash of paint next maybe... or that's perhaps going too far... might go to her head..

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## PlatypusGardens

> Dash of paint next maybe... or that's perhaps going too far... might go to her head..

  
Flames!
Everything looks better with flames   :Yourock:   :Burnt:   :Yourock:

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## Marc

> I get some funny looks whatever I do. Or see some funny looks at any rate. No, I shelve the shelving before pooling the boys. 
> Following day: 
> Here you go:  
> It's lovely how a great chunk of obstinate immovable iron turns into a finger tip controlled swinging, swirling, pirouetting little darling once you put some wheels on her. 
> Dash of paint next maybe... or that's perhaps going too far... might go to her head..

  The stick Welder is Male ... the Mig is female ...

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## PlatypusGardens

> The stick Welder is Male ... the Mig is female ...

   :Wtf1:  
You calling my welder girly?   :Cry:   
Better paint some flames on it pronto.   
And skulls   :Shifty:

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## Marc

Hei ... she started it!

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## MorganGT

> Flames!
> Everything looks better with flames

  Sure does - here's a couple of my old rides with cheap rattle-can spray jobs:  
And you mentioned skulls - I got bored one Saturday and found a can of white enamel paint, so got out a brush and did a freehand skull and crossbones that covered the whole roof of that Datsun (lucky I hadn't just bought a Plasma Cutter, or I might have got carried away and used that on the roof instead....)
Also had the same spray job on my Suzuki RG250WE-1 road bike. 
The current toy has a slightly more discreet flame job:

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## PlatypusGardens

Niiiiiiiice! 
I was more in to black with yellow scallops or the other way round. 
Will find some pics one day    :Smilie:

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## abrogard

you guys have got me thinking.....

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## ringtail

Wow ! A P38, P510 and an SV1. Don't see many of any of them around these days

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## ringtail

Cracker of a welder too. Probably 100% duty cycle at max amps.

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## PlatypusGardens

> you guys have got me thinking.....

  
Please refer to my sig

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## abrogard

If you are talking about my transarc I was a bit surprised to read on it that the duty cycle is only 30% on range A and 40% on range B. 
I was expecting to read 100%. 
Looking at my little SIP I see it has a 25% cycle at 80A, 48V, giving 3.8kW.  It can deliver that for 1 minute out of four is the way I think of it.  Or the way they like it: 2.5m out of 10. 
So for in hour it doesn't deliver  3.8kWh but a quarter of that:  0.9kWh. 
Where the Transarc puts out on range A (same as the SIP) 10.4kW and does that for 30% of the time meaning in one hour I'll get about 3kWh from it. 
On range B 9kW at 40% = 3.6kWh again.   Say 3kWh per hour either range. 
Three times the power of the little SIP. 
Enormous variation in size and weight just to go to three times more work. 
I think the biggest problem is heat, right?  So if they were force cooled like CPU's are then maybe the duty cycle would be increased.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Cracker of a welder too. Probably 100% duty cycle at max amps.

        

> If you are talking about my transarc I was a bit surprised to read on it that the duty cycle is only 30% on range A and 40% on range B. 
> I was expecting to read 100%.

      :Unsure:   
.....hmm, or not....      
.

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## Marc

My lincoln torpedo welder is 100% duty cycle.  :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

Good lord!    :Shock:   
Such a beast you have to chain it to the floor?                     _And I'm not gonna mention what it looks like_ _I'm not_    :Unsure:

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## abrogard

> My lincoln torpedo welder is 100% duty cycle.

    That's interesting.  Looks like it belongs in an Indian Temple somewhere surrounded by devout followers and wreathed in lotus blossoms.   
A boss machine. 
Could you tell us what Amps it will  do and what is the open circuit voltage?  
p.s.  Is this an Aussie forum?  Seems to be.  I had the idea it was American, don't know why.

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## PlatypusGardens

> p.s.  Is this an Aussie forum?  Seems to be.  I had the idea it was American, don't know why.

    :Aussie3:

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## abrogard

you beauty....

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## ringtail

That is frikken cool Marc.  
How old is that welder abrogard ? 40% is a bit dissappointing for an old school machine. Still, 40% is 4 minutes non stop welding in a ten minute period which is a lot of welding continuously. And not possible with a stick as one runs out of electrode every 15 seconds or so.

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## abrogard

I don't know how old it is.  Wish I did.  Yes, it is a bit of a let down and a surprise. Perhaps they weren't good at building them back then? 
Just wondering if the limiting thing is that power rating: 10W on one range, 9W on the other. I wish I understood electricity a bit better.  And welders, welding. 
I am trying to find out if it makes a difference if your welder puts out, say 10 Amps, to drive a stick, at say 100V as against 200V.   
Because if that can happen then one way you've got Watts (which is power isn't it?) of 10 x 100 = 1000  and the other way you've got 10 x 200 = 2000 !  Twice as much power.  That'd make a different weld, surely? 
But maybe it can't work like that and effectively the voltage is always the same on the same piece of metal with the same electrode at the same Amps.   In which case why do manufacturers choose one Volt rating as against another? 
And so on...  very interesting 
Another little thing:  It doesn't have an on/off switch.  The input power line has been replaced and doesn't go into the hole in the back it used to ( I guess ) but that makes no difference - there's no sign of an on/off switch anywhere.   
Was that normal in those days, too?  Switch it on at the wall and leave it on all day?  Or keep going back and forwards to the wall? 
The kind of welding I do and the way I do it I'm forever switching my welders on and off...  Would have thought, did think, do think, it is a kind of safety measure, too. 
Here's a pic of the back plate for those interested: 
.

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## ringtail

Wow, that plate spins me out. Open circuit voltage on machines these days is limited at 50v IIRC. And why does range A have 80 V open circuit and yet lower amps capability. Baaah, stoopid electrikerty  :Biggrin:   . My old slugger doesn't have different ranges just a plunger that moves up and down inside the transformer.

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