# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  Anyone got Cost comparing Hebel , Bondor and other BushFire Rated cladding ?

## HotBushy

Hi peepil, 
Has anyone got a comparative list of costs for different brands of BAL-40 and BAL-FZ Bushfire rated cladding ? 
Hebel is available from 50 to 150 mm thick but it still has to be fixed over structural wall framing and still requires additional insulation to meet R2.8 
Bondor has many Fire Rated panels that can exceed R2.8 without any other insulation but also require support framing. 
MgO , FireCrunch are two others , What other cladding systems are out there and what is the cheapest ? 
I would like something self supporting if possible for a rural dwelling , rated to BAL-FZ and meeting R2.8 insulation standards.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Concrete blocks would be the cheapest option. Otherwise, a SIP using Firecrunch or similar. But that would be spendy...

----------


## HotBushy

> Concrete blocks would be the cheapest option. Otherwise, a SIP using Firecrunch or similar. But that would be spendy...

  Do concrete blocks meet R2.8 insulation rating ? 
Thanks for your suggestion of structural Insulated Panels (SIP) , however i looked at them and very expensive too ( Zego) high upfront cost and labour intensive plus the outer shell is a bit brittle even when rendered over the polystyrene. 
Still looking for better. Stronger .Cheaper.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Do concrete blocks meet R2.8 insulation rating ?

  Not on their own. They'd need something on the outside and something more on the inside. 
Mud bricks are cheap. Rammed earth less so but still... 
Honestly though... 150mm steel frame, 6mm fibre cement sheet external with corrugated steel over the top, 10mm  compressed cement sheet internally, glass fibre insulation infill.  
But the REAL issue issue is do you want windows? Because that gets stabbingly expensive...

----------


## Moondog55

Here's a thought Re windows. Don't have any large windows on the outside of the building. 
Build in the Spanish/Moorish style around a large courtyard

----------


## HotBushy

Yes true , And i don’t mind that architectural style at all , it could mitigate a lot of the radiant heat but ember entry still has to be addressed with appropriate construction joints. 
It beats paying the $81,000 I was quoted recently for 8 units of BAL-FZ windows with ember shutters  :Shock: /

----------


## Moondog55

Also the Victorian Age frontier outpost style has similar advantages. There is a great example near The Alice at the old Telegraph Station

----------


## HotBushy

Like this ?  https://www.getaboutable.com/culture...graph-station/ 
glass was an expensive commodity in Victorian times so typically windows were small compared to these days where “max light is right”

----------


## Moondog55

The old police barracks attached to the telegraph station may be what I was thinking about and not the staff cottages

----------


## toooldforthis

> Here's a thought Re windows. Don't have any large windows on the outside of the building. 
> Build in the Spanish/Moorish style around a large courtyard

   I like yr thinking but from my enquiries it doesn't change the BAL assessment or the need for fire rated windows, no matter where the windows are located - upstairs, downstairs, facing potential firezone, or away from it, or in an internal courtyard. Hoping to be proved otherwise, but then convincing council would be the next (impossible) step

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> I like yr thinking but from my enquiries it doesn't change the BAL assessment or the need for fire rated windows, no matter where the windows are located - upstairs, downstairs, facing potential firezone, or away from it, or in an internal courtyard. Hoping to be proved otherwise, but then convincing council would be the next (impossible) step

  It should change the required rating for the windows... simply because aren't facing the radiant heat. And even a drop from FZ back to 40 or better still 29 makes a massive financial difference. 
We have recently spent $35,000 on BAL29 rated timber windows. Dropping down to BAL19 would have saved us around six grand (different timber). Going up to BAL40 would've added over 10 grand (mostly in the glass). And FZ would have added another 10 to 15 grand on top of BAL40 for the shutters.

----------


## toooldforthis

> It should change the required rating for the windows... simply because aren't facing the radiant heat. And even a drop from FZ back to 40 or better still 29 makes a massive financial difference. 
> We have recently spent $35,000 on BAL29 rated timber windows. Dropping down to BAL19 would have saved us around six grand (different timber). Going up to BAL40 would've added over 10 grand (mostly in the glass). And FZ would have added another 10 to 15 grand on top of BAL40 for the shutters.

  well, I agree
so, did your windows have different ratings for where they were located? or were the ratings required the same for all locations?

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> well, I agree
> so, did your windows have different ratings for where they were located? or were the ratings required the same for all locations?

  We self assessed our BAL rating at BAL19 but, as a butt covering exercise (plus the fact that NG Rosewood doesn't suit a house made from ironbark as well as Merbau), all the windows were designed to suit the BAL29 rating regardless. The only difference was in the screens. Windows and doors that will open out into a metal screened verandah were not required to be screened at all (according to the manufacturer) in order to satisfy the rating. However, we had screens made for all the windows anyway...

----------


## Moondog55

Those window costs are so far over the top it sounds like profiteering

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Those window costs are so far over the top it sounds like profiteering

  Go out and quote on BAL rated double glazed windows, Moondog... I'll wait. Get a quote on 19, 29 and 40...and on those bloody awful suburban grade single sheet, sliding aluminium things that most ticky tacky ghetto grade mcmansions use too while you are at it. 
Unfortunately, good stuff is expensive these days.

----------


## Moondog55

It is
Our back door cost $1900 plus fitting Windows about $2000- each set
But to get to BAL 40 triples?? that cost and there isn't that much difference in spec between what we got and what is 40 rated from what I have been reading, unless it is the cost of the SS screening extra

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> It is
> Our back door cost $1900 plus fitting Windows about $2000- each set
> But to get to BAL 40 triples?? that cost and there isn't that much difference in spec between what we got and what is 40 rated from what I have been reading, unless it is the cost of the SS screening extra

  BAL 29 windows for us. We bought 11 windows and two double doors, all in merbau with 5mm or 6mm Viridian Lightbridge double glazing. Roughly $35,000. Final bifold should be around $7000... 
Quote for BAL40 added about $300 to $400 per window...

----------


## Moondog55

Maybe we all need to reassess our housing needs if we want to live in the BAL 29 and higher rated areas?
Cecile and I could simply not afford all the fire rated windows and doors needed to simply look at the view. Fine if that is what you want and can afford it but for us perhaps we could forgo the outward looking aspects if we decided to buy cheap land and build something.
In which case the inward looking courtyard house would make sense for us

----------


## toooldforthis

> ...
> In which case the inward looking courtyard house would make sense for us

  got any links to documentation or standards that say glazing for internal courtyards can be a different standard to outward facing glazing?

----------


## Moondog55

Nope because I can't afford another home ever so only dreaming. 
I would imagine that even if inward facing glass wasn't exposed to flame or radiant heat the numpties who make the rules would insist on having it tho, some bushfire building rules make a lot of sense but some seem not to at the moment.
If you can find a copy of PA Yeomans book "Water for every farm" and read his sections on building and planning for bushfires you might find that we have done nothing smart at all in the last 70 years, might even be a free PDF download by now, ditto the Permaculture handbook and 50 years

----------


## toooldforthis

> Nope because I can't afford another home ever so only dreaming. 
> I would imagine that even _if inward facing glass wasn't exposed to flame or radiant heat the numpties who make the rules would insist on having it tho_, some bushfire building rules make a lot of sense but some seem not to at the moment.
> If you can find a copy of PA Yeomans book "Water for every farm" and read his sections on building and planning for bushfires you might find that we have done nothing smart at all in the last 70 years, might even be a free PDF download by now, ditto the Permaculture handbook and 50 years

  that's my point exactly.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

I'm not sure if it's the ones that make the rules that are the problem or the ones that interpret and apply them to the rest of us...

----------


## toooldforthis

> I'm not sure if it's the ones that make the rules that are the problem or the ones that interpret and apply them to the rest of us...

  
good point.

----------

