# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Problem with Hettich Drawer runners

## frog_hopper

Hi All, 
About 6 months ago we had a new kitchen installed. The drawers have Hettich side mounted soft close, full extention runners (with ball bearings).
There are 15 drawers in total, and I am having problems with six of the drawers not running smoothly. I consider this to be a large proporrtion of the total drawers. 
Issues are:  Issue 1 
Five of the drawers open smoothly most of the the way, and then get stuck on the last 10 - 15 cm and then wobble / pull sideways. These drawers then need to be given a good tugg to get them to extend all of way out. These drawers are quite large (800mm wide to 1000mm) wide.  
I suggested to the kitchen guy that the cabinets might not be square, and he said definately not. The kitchen guy said he would replace the runners and I am happy for him to do so, but I am concerned that this is not getting to the root cause of the problem. Is this a common problem with Hettich runners? Someone else from the kitchen company also said that the sides and runners may not have been installed correctly together in pairs as they came out of the box. They also said I may have got a bad batch. Sound likely? 
I know that one of the runners got a lot of dust in it as they had to cut a cabinet in situ and dust went into the runners, but this doesn't explain the other four.   Issue 2 
One other drawer opens and closes smoothly but doesn't close the last 5mm, and makes a click sounds once manually pushed in. This drawer houses my crockery and is quite heavy. It is about 900 wide.  
Can anyone please help. I would have expected better in a new kitchen. Worst case I will replace the Hettich runners with something else. 
Regards,
Frog_hopper

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## Godzilla73

G'day, 
Can you post a pick of the runners and drawer setup? Might help with suggestions.

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## frog_hopper

> G'day, 
> Can you post a pick of the runners and drawer setup? Might help with suggestions.

  Will do Gozilla when I get back from holidays in a weeks time

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## arms

> Hi All, 
> About 6 months ago we had a new kitchen installed. The drawers have Hettich side mounted soft close, full extention runners (with ball bearings).
> There are 15 drawers in total, and I am having problems with six of the drawers not running smoothly. I consider this to be a large proporrtion of the total drawers. 
> Issues are:  Issue 1 
> Five of the drawers open smoothly most of the the way, and then get stuck on the last 10 - 15 cm and then wobble / pull sideways. These drawers then need to be given a good tugg to get them to extend all of way out. These drawers are quite large (800mm wide to 1000mm) wide.  
> I suggested to the kitchen guy that the cabinets might not be square, and he said definately not. The kitchen guy said he would replace the runners and I am happy for him to do so, but I am concerned that this is not getting to the root cause of the problem. Is this a common problem with Hettich runners? Someone else from the kitchen company also said that the sides and runners may not have been installed correctly together in pairs as they came out of the box. They also said I may have got a bad batch. Sound likely? 
> I know that one of the runners got a lot of dust in it as they had to cut a cabinet in situ and dust went into the runners, but this doesn't explain the other four.   Issue 2 
> One other drawer opens and closes smoothly but doesn't close the last 5mm, and makes a click sounds once manually pushed in. This drawer houses my crockery and is quite heavy. It is about 900 wide.  
> Can anyone please help. I would have expected better in a new kitchen. Worst case I will replace the Hettich runners with something else. 
> ...

  hettich runners are just as good as the blum tandembox ,so i would look to the drawers ,lift a drawer off its runners and fully extend the runner then push it back in and see how it travels ,if ok then there is something amiss with the drawer .
1000mm is too wide for this style of runners alone and should have a compensation bar fitted to the back so that the drawer opens equally on both sides

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## frog_hopper

> hettich runners are just as good as the blum tandembox ,so i would look to the drawers ,lift a drawer off its runners and fully extend the runner then push it back in and see how it travels ,if ok then there is something amiss with the drawer .
> 1000mm is too wide for this style of runners alone and should have a compensation bar fitted to the back so that the drawer opens equally on both sides

  Thanks Arms. What you say about the drawers needing a compensation bar sounds right. The narrower drawers dont seem to have the same problem. It is as if the runners on the larger drawers on each side are not opening equally. The deeper drawers seem worse. How wide can a drawer get before they need a compensation bar? It the compensation bar a Hettich product and can it be retrofitted?

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## arms

> Thanks Arms. What you say about the drawers needing a compensation bar sounds right. The narrower drawers dont seem to have the same problem. It is as if the runners on the larger drawers on each side are not opening equally. The deeper drawers seem worse. How wide can a drawer get before they need a compensation bar? It the compensation bar a Hettich product and can it be retrofitted?

  i dont beleive hettich drawers have a stabilizing bar in their product range ,could be wrong but nothing shows in their catalogue .
try what i suggested first then at least you will know where the problem is coming from

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## frog_hopper

> i dont beleive hettich drawers have a stabilizing bar in their product range ,could be wrong but nothing shows in their catalogue .
> try what i suggested first then at least you will know where the problem is coming from

  I had a bit of a look on the internet and couldn't find anything about a stabilizing bar either. Will have a look at the drawers as suggested when I get from holidays. Stay tuned Arms! 
Btw, I think the runners are Hettich Innotech Quadro.

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## arms

> I had a bit of a look on the internet and couldn't find anything about a stabilizing bar either. Will have a look at the drawers as suggested when I get from holidays. Stay tuned Arms! 
> Btw, I think the runners are Hettich Innotech Quadro.

  as i thought

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## Godzilla73

Hettich Blätterkatalog® 
Page 5.2.135 Top right.

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## Pitto

>  Recommended for drawers/pot-and-pan drawers in cabinets
> widths of ≥ 800 mm

  Looks like your kitchen mob have some retrofit work to do  :Biggrin:

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## arms

> i dont beleive hettich drawers have a stabilizing bar in their product range ,could be wrong but nothing shows in their catalogue .
> try what i suggested first then at least you will know where the problem is coming from

  well i did say that i could be wrong ,i dont use hettich

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## Godzilla73

Yeah I wasn't sure what sort of drawer system he had but in a later post mentioned Innotech. We use it occasionally at work.

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## Pitto

i would use it as a second to Tandembox.  much better quality than the novapro and harn versions, have not used the hafele version so i cant comment on that. 
Innotech is a pretty solid product, so i would say its been applied to the design of the kitchen incorrectly.

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## Godzilla73

We use the Grass Novapro Deluxe and Classic mostly, they go alright. Way better than the Harn system.  
The Grass/Hafele combo have a good bin system too, also use Blum if the client requests it. The Blum soft close hinges are popular too.

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## Pitto

the new blum inserta CLIP with built in blumotion is a great idea. I have also just used the new Blumotion adapters combined with the Metabox metal sided runners, and they work great too for those who want softclose
drawer runners on a budget. 
Novapro's are ok too, i have used the classic's before.

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## frog_hopper

Hi Everyone, 
Back from holidays and have some photos and more information; 
I actually have Hettich KA 4532 runners (not Hettich Innotech Quadro). These mount on the side of the drawer and are ball bearing runners with soft close. They are rated to 35kg. I believe they are a cheaper option than then Quadro.  
I phoned Hettich and described the problem to them, and they advised that the runners are not suitable for large size drawers. The declined to tell me exactly what size range they were suitable for, but said once a drawer was approaching 100cm, no ball bearing runner (theirs or a competitors) would work without a stabilising bar and that I would need to upgrade the runners and/or drawers.  
The kitchen guy / cabinet maker (with 30 years experience) has been advised of the runner issue and has offered to replace the bad runners with an identical runners. I asked him several times if there could be another reason why so many had failed (7 out of 15), and he said I must just have got a bad batch. I now realise the runners he used were not fit for purpose, low end, and he has been trying to pull the wool over my eyes. 
My quote (there was also no BSA contract or insurance, another bad point on his behalf) said "Hettich Soft Close Drawer System", so it was not clear as to what I was getting, but I assumed in good faith that the drawers would function correctly for at least the first few years or more. 
I have also had a problem with the doors, where there is a blimp on the outside of each door where the hinges (also Hettich soft close) were screwed in on the inside, so all round, this has not been a good experience. This is yet to be fixed also. 
The price of the kitchen was on the lower end of the 3 quotes I got (around $15K for a small to medium size kitchen, laminate cupboards, 20mm stone top) but I still expect the drawers to work, expensive or not.  
Am I being reasonable to expect the drawers to function better than they do? Does anyone have experience with the KA4532 runners? Are they as bad as they seem? Up to what size drawers would you use these runners for? Am i within my rights to expect him to fix this problem? We are happy to make a contribution towards upgrading to more expensive runners to fix the problem, but he will need to come to the table too. 
Arms - I took the drawer off, and the runners seem to function ok, although the one I took off runs a little rough. 
Photo above shows how the drawers get stuck and need a tug to open the last 12cm (they are supposed to be full extension). Many of them do this.   
Photo above shows how the drawer doesn't fully close. It needs a push to close and makes a loud clicking sound when closing. This happens on 4 drawers. 
Another one of the drawers no longer soft closes, it just slams as it closes.

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## arms

> Hi Everyone, 
> Back from holidays and have some photos and more information; 
> I actually have Hettich KA 4532 runners (not Hettich Innotech Quadro). These mount on the side of the drawer and are ball bearing runners with soft close. They are rated to 35kg. I believe they are a cheaper option than then Quadro.  
> I phoned Hettich and described the problem to them, and they advised that the runners are not suitable for large size drawers. The declined to tell me exactly what size range they were suitable for, but said once a drawer was approaching 100cm, no ball bearing runner (theirs or a competitors) would work without a stabilising bar and that I would need to upgrade the runners and/or drawers.  
> The kitchen guy / cabinet maker (with 30 years experience) has been advised of the runner issue and has offered to replace the bad runners with an identical runners. I asked him several times if there could be another reason why so many had failed (7 out of 15), and he said I must just have got a bad batch. I now realise the runners he used were not fit for purpose, low end, and he has been trying to pull the wool over my eyes. 
> My quote (there was also no BSA contract or insurance, another bad point on his behalf) said "Hettich Soft Close Drawer System", so it was not clear as to what I was getting, but I assumed in good faith that the drawers would function correctly for at least the first few years or more. 
> I have also had a problem with the doors, where there is a blimp on the outside of each door where the hinges (also Hettich soft close) were screwed in on the inside, so all round, this has not been a good experience. This is yet to be fixed also. 
> The price of the kitchen was on the lower end of the 3 quotes I got (around $15K for a small to medium size kitchen, laminate cupboards, 20mm stone top) but I still expect the drawers to work, expensive or not.  
> Am I being reasonable to expect the drawers to function better than they do? Does anyone have experience with the KA4532 runners? Are they as bad as they seem? Up to what size drawers would you use these runners for? Am i within my rights to expect him to fix this problem? We are happy to make a contribution towards upgrading to more expensive runners to fix the problem, but he will need to come to the table too. 
> ...

  totally incorrect drawer system for your situation ,unbalanced and underrated drawer runners are your problem ,1000mm wide drawers will surpass the rating of the runner and they are failing as such .the 35kg is the total weight they can carry.
 take away the actual weight of the 16mm drawer(very old world)and the drawer front and you will probably have about 20kg of weight ,
bump of the face of the door is probably caused by not drilling the hinge cup hole deep enough and the hinge is pressing the wafer from within.  
solution ,
redrill all hinge holes ,change drawer systems to suit purpose .
negotiate with your cabby to come to an amicable (long term)solution not an ad hoc one

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## frog_hopper

Thanks Arms for your most helpful feedback. I feel like I now have enough knowledge to take the problem back to the cabinet maker for negotiation. 
Up to what size drawers do you think these runners would be suitable for (assuming the old style 16mm carcas drawers)? I am trying to get a feel for which width drawers I should be replacing, as some of the smaller ones seem to be going ok, but don't want them breaking down in the future. Maybe I should upgrade everything whilst I am at it. 
BTW, I actually took one of the biggest drawers out and weighed it (once empty), and it was 18kg, so you are about right!

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## arms

> Thanks Arms for your most helpful feedback. I feel like I now have enough knowledge to take the problem back to the cabinet maker for negotiation. 
> Up to what size drawers do you think these runners would be suitable for (assuming the old style 16mm carcas drawers)? I am trying to get a feel for which width drawers I should be replacing, as some of the smaller ones seem to be going ok, but don't want them breaking down in the future. Maybe I should upgrade everything whilst I am at it. 
> BTW, I actually took one of the biggest drawers out and weighed it (once empty), and it was 18kg, so you are about right!

  try weighing it with cutlery/saucepans and you will see why they are failing and i wouldnt put those runners on any cabinet over 500mm wide

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## Godzilla73

They are susceptible to getting sawdust or swarf from drilling into the grease and fowling the motion of the runner, they can be freed up by removing them and blowing out the gunk and applying WD-40 to get them going again and then something like Lanotec to lube them again. 
If they have the dust from the stone tops in them, say from doing onsite cutouts, forget it they're stuffed and need replacing. 
We have found the hinges with integrated soft close need a deeper cup hole. 
Did you see this drawer setup in action before purchase?

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## frog_hopper

> They are susceptible to getting sawdust or swarf from drilling into the grease and fowling the motion of the runner, they can be freed up by removing them and blowing out the gunk and applying WD-40 to get them going again and then something like Lanotec to lube them again. 
> If they have the dust from the stone tops in them, say from doing onsite cutouts, forget it they're stuffed and need replacing. 
> We have found the hinges with integrated soft close need a deeper cup hole. 
> Did you see this drawer setup in action before purchase?

  Thanks for the tips Godzilla. They cabinet maker I used said they used the Hettich machine to press the hinges in, so I am not sure why they stuffed up. Might not have been adjusted correctly. Who knows. 
I did see their products in their small show room (they are a small outfit) but I am not sure I paid too much attention to the runners. I had previously asked them which hardware they used, and they said Hettich. I researched Hettich and decided that they were a reputable brand with a solid system, and left it at that. The kitchen guy was a very stong recommendation so I thought I was onto a winner (how wrong I was). Even if I had of looked into it in more detail, I wouldn't have known until the kitchen had been installed and had been in action for some time, that there was going to be these problems. 
If only I knew what I know now .... 
Will keep everyone posted on how I get along ....

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## Godzilla73

You're right about Hettich being a reputable brand, really only second behind Blum on the same products in each of their ranges. 
As you say, if the Hettich machine used to punch the hinges isn't set up properly then you get your issue.  
Unfortunately "soft close" can mean a few different things in this industry and you've ended up with their version of it.

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## Pitto

i agree 100% to Arms and God's comments. Its not a total disaster, just a bit of negotiation and rework and all will be right. 
the hinge issue does come up from time to time, specially with those cabbies who run the blum/hinge machines. the white gloss materials show up like the proverbial when reflecting light, but its an easy fix. 
the drawer issue can be rework without too many drama's. but i dont know many cabinetmakers who are still doing the old style 16mm drawers as they are a false economy when you weigh in the labour costs to build them.
for the same price, you could have got the metabox / tradeline / standard metal sided runners and added a $10.00 softcloser to it, with a better finish. 
goodluck, communication is the key, and stay positive, but firm.

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## frog_hopper

Well here is the latest update everyone. We have found out that the runners they kitchen company used were actually Repon (Taiwanese) and not Hettich. We were told they were Hettich, and actually looks very similar to the KA4532 Hettich ones, but when pushed, the kitchen guy came clean and advised us that they were not in fact Hettich at all. We were stunned to say the least.  
Anyways, he has agreed to redo all the drawers with Hettich Innotech Metal sided drawers, weighted to 50kg and with stabilising bars where required. All the doors are being re done as well (to get rid of the "blimps"). 
Perhaps he should have just done the right thing by us in the first place. 
I also want to say a big thanks to everyone for your input. I doubt I would have gotten to the bottom of this without your help. Invaluable.
frog_hopper

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## arms

> Well here is the latest update everyone. We have found out that the runners they kitchen company used were actually Repon (Taiwanese) and not Hettich. We were told they were Hettich, and actually looks very similar to the KA4532 Hettich ones, but when pushed, the kitchen guy came clean and advised us that they were not in fact Hettich at all. We were stunned to say the least.  
> Anyways, he has agreed to redo all the drawers with Hettich Innotech Metal sided drawers, weighted to 50kg and with stabilising bars where required. All the doors are being re done as well (to get rid of the "blimps"). 
> Perhaps he should have just done the right thing by us in the first place. 
> I also want to say a big thanks to everyone for your input. I doubt I would have gotten to the bottom of this without your help. Invaluable.
> frog_hopper

  as the old saying goes "never enough time to do it right but always enough time to do it twice"

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