# Forum Home Renovation Tools & Products  laser or dumpy levels

## shauck

I think I might bite the bullet and get me a laser or dumpy (sick of borrowing). I don't mind a dumpy, apart from needing a hand to use it. I just want a "fairly" decent one of either variety. I saw this and wondered what others may have thought and if they had ideas about comparable products. I realise it's from the states which makes warranty a pain so prefer from au. The price looked ok??   Northwest NRL800 Self-Level Rotating Rotary Laser Complete Package | eBay

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## manofaus

I have one from ebay. Its a no name or generic laser level. If you want to ask specifically about an item I look in the history of the seller, find the same item, find someone who bought it and send a message about the item and see how they think it goes.  
I have not used one other then the one I own, and I usually use a dumpy as well. They are more accurate then a laser level. Only because the laser its self has a thickness. so your reader will read the top and bottom of the laser light and thats why you get the error that they mention. No biggy really. If you chase moon beams then you need to remember to bring your receiver the same way each time you get a measurement. 
Thats the other thing, you need to move the laser on the staff if you are taking measurements unless you wear the correct glasses and can read the laser position on the staff. 
One with a remote is good, bumping it when trying to press the buttons can cause it to reset, and of course rechargeable batteries. Also one that can take standard batteries in case you are caught out and can't wait 10hrs to recharge. 
I like the idea as well that you can do grades and I see that model can. Just check to see if it will do enough of a grade for what you want to do. I used it when I profiled my back yard for turf and it was great. 
Apparently the green lasers are better to see as well. 
You can slow the RPM on some models and they have a scan feature in which you can just select an angle for it to sweep. 
seeing as you already have used them it probably is nothing new to you !!

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## manofaus

The one that I bought was pretty similar to this one:  DIAL IN GRADE LASER LEVEL DRAINAGE INC TRIPOD & STAFF | eBay

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## barney118

I have been lucky using B/I laws topcon RL 100 1S $3k but some smaller ones $1k look for a self leveling one they are worth weight in gold.  
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

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## METRIX

We use Leica equipment at work, from laser distance measurers, to the green rotating lasers.
They make great equipment, have taken a few knocks and still perform flawlessly. 
Topcon is a nice brand if you can get one, I notice the concretors seem to have the Rugby 100. 
I woud not waste money on a cheap ass rotating laser, you will get what you pay for, bu a good brand and you will get good reliable performance.
All construction lasers are OVERPRICED in AU, the same models can be had for 1/2 to 2/3 the price from US including shipping. 
IMO a laser is more versatile than a dumpy as you can use it solo, and it is a quick setup and accurate enough for any job you need to do unless it's a high rise your building.
We also have one which has a motorised wall bracket for doing false ceilings, it works a treat, if you can get a green one these are worth it, as they are very visable. 
Now to try and get manufacturers to put green lasers in drop saws so you can actually see them in anything above ambient light.

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## shauck

> I have one from ebay. Its a no name or generic laser level. If you want to ask specifically about an item I look in the history of the seller, find the same item, find someone who bought it and send a message about the item and see how they think it goes.  *That's an interesting tip.* 
> I have not used one other then the one I own, and I usually use a dumpy as well. They are more accurate then a laser level. Only because the laser its self has a thickness. so your reader will read the top and bottom of the laser light and thats why you get the error that they mention. No biggy really. If you chase moon beams then you need to remember to bring your receiver the same way each time you get a measurement. 
> Thats the other thing, you need to move the laser on the staff if you are taking measurements unless you wear the correct glasses and can read the laser position on the staff.  *Easy enough* 
> One with a remote is good, bumping it when trying to press the buttons can cause it to reset, and of course rechargeable batteries. Also one that can take standard batteries in case you are caught out and can't wait 10hrs to recharge. *I call that beer o'clock (although am recently on the wagon* *)* 
> I like the idea as well that you can do grades and I see that model can. Just check to see if it will do enough of a grade for what you want to do. I used it when I profiled my back yard for turf and it was great. *Never done it and don't know anything about that function but anything is learn-able* 
> Apparently the green lasers are better to see as well. 
> You can slow the RPM on some models and they have a scan feature in which you can just select an angle for it to sweep. 
> seeing as you already have used them it probably is nothing new to you !! *Don't bet on it. Plenty of things are new to me. More to learn*

   

> The one that I bought was pretty similar to this one:  DIAL IN GRADE LASER LEVEL DRAINAGE INC TRIPOD & STAFF | eBay

   

> I have been lucky using B/I laws topcon RL 100 1S $3k but some smaller ones $1k look for a self leveling one they are worth weight in gold. *Better go out in the back yard and dig up some gold. I think, under the 1k mark is all I can manage and not even that really. That's why dumpy may be the way to go for now. If I have to pay someone it gets covered in the bill. Getting the owner to help (with some instruction) is sometimes an option too.*   
> Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

  If I go with laser, I figured the Northwest in first post seemed pretty good value and it includes staff and tripod and the specs were pretty good. Is the brand known here? I couldn't find an AU website that sold them to find a comparative price.

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## shauck

> We use Leica equipment at work, from laser distance measurers, to the green rotating lasers.
> They make great equipment, have taken a few knocks and still perform flawlessly. *I did see Leica brand and wondered if they were any good. I remember it as a camera lense brand from way back when.*
> Topcon is a nice brand if you can get one, I notice the concretors seem to have the Rugby 100. *Might break the bank?*
> I woud not waste money on a cheap ass rotating laser, you will get what you pay for, bu a good brand and you will get good reliable performance.
> All construction lasers are OVERPRICED in AU, the same models can be had for 1/2 to 2/3 the price from US including shipping. *Would you buy from US?*
> IMO a laser is more versatile than a dumpy as you can use it solo, and it is a quick setup and accurate enough for any job you need to do unless it's a high rise your building. *I've managed at times to use one on my own (clamping staff to hurdles). Bit of a muck around but had no one on hand.*
> We also have one which has a motorised wall bracket for doing false ceilings, it works a treat, if you can get a green one these are worth it, as they are very visable. 
> Now to try and get manufacturers to put green lasers in drop saws so you can actually see them in anything above ambient light.

  I might have another look at Leica, cheers.

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## SilentButDeadly

bear in mind that many levels don't come with a tripod or (if they do) they are cheap rubbish or expensive add-ons. 
Personally, I've been stoked with the use of a Nikon AC-2 dumpy for most of my adult life.  But I also had the loan of a Topcon to do the extension stumping (levelled 72 stumps) and it made a potentially tedious job an absolute joy. 
If you can spring for the extra$70 over budget...this is a good deal A1 Topcon RL-H4C Construction Laser Level Inc Tripod | Get Tools Direct but they also have the Bosch ones for less.

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## Gaza

dont buy anything till you talk to these guys they supply and service most big companys in sydney and do interstate delivery, they provide service collibration after you run over it or drop it off the roof.  Universal (Aust) Instruments Services: Home 
he has both name brands and also good stuff that is under his own name,  
they are real honest nice people,  
i would not buy from a power tool shop

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## METRIX

These are not a bad tripod, we have one at work, this one looks like they have gone away from the latch type lock to a screw lock, which is less brekable.  Topcon Aluminium Dome Top Tripod, Suits All Lasers And Dumpy Levels | eBay 
You can also pick up some good quality 2nd hand units such as the one below, it lloks in very good condition, you can usually tell when they have had a lot of work as they are scratched to bits as they are always on construction sites. 
Or if you want to spend a little more, get a new one with 5 year warranty 2nd link  TOPCON LASER LEVEL RL-H3C GREAT CONDITION! | eBay   http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Topcon-Se...item48469e34e9

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## shauck

Found the Topcon with tripod and staff for $1155 Levellaser.com.au - Topcon RL-H4C Construction laser with Tripod & Staff, so that'd be $105 for the staff when compared to Get Tools Direct $1050 without staff. Actually GTD cost 20 bucks for freight too so its 85 bucks difference. 
On the dumpy scene, also Topcon with staff and tripod for $418. Levellaser.com.au - Topcon Automatic Level  
Arrgh. I want the laser level!! 
Yay, I have permission to get a laser level!

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## SilentButDeadly

> Yay, I have permission to get a laser level!

  Well done.  I'd take Gaza's advice and ring an expert.  I've heard of the mob he recommends and i reckon you could do a heck of a lot worse than give them a yell.

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## shauck

> Well done.  I'd take Gaza's advice and ring an expert.  I've heard of the mob he recommends and i reckon you could do a heck of a lot worse than give them a yell.

  I looked at their website and found some of the info lacking on the models and only a few brands (no Topcon either) so hard to compare, especially when no listed prices. I left them a message with my mobile number but haven't heard from them yet.  
The company Laser Sonics, (website levellaser.com.au) have a big range and lots of info and prices so good for researching and comparing to others. I like to be able to do this before talking to a company. I emailed them and they have contacted me straight off. Even offered discount on the listed price.  
I wouldn't think these guys (Laser Sonics, website levellaser.com.au) are a general hardware/tool sales outlet as they only deal with levelling equipment. Anyone heard of them?

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## shauck

PLS A5 HVR505G Green Beam Auto Leveling Laser Plus Tripod & Staff | Get Tools Direct 
The PLS website puts in in the indoor category but also says outdoor use. Not quite the accuracy of the topcon (1.5mm over 30m) as is about 3mm over 30m or range but horizontal and vertical use and this laser has green beam. US made. Any comments on the brand? If you had to choose between the two?

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## METRIX

I believe PLS is a good brand, I have seen contractors with them, Trust me the Green is deffinetly more visible than the Red, indoors or outdoors. 
We have both and the green one is always the preference to use, but saying that they are only a few mW laser which is in them and you would need a laser of around 1W to see it it bright daylight, but this poses a real safety risk to your eyes, hence lower powered diodes, and handheld sensor. 
Think about the accuracy, if they have 3mm over 30m this if fine for any normal construction projects 30m is a long distance and you would usually have the laser close to your project, say 5-10 meters away so the accuracy is good. 
What we do is set a reference point somewhere in the center of what we are doing, and we will move the lader all over the place, and rereference back to the know poita no matter where the laser has moved to, unless you are really moving it far away, but this is not common. 
+- 3mm over 30m is fine, and any tool is only as accurate as the person using it, the unit is self levelling and should keep itself steady all day, but the person holding the staff and sensor can be all over the shop if your not careful, typically you will hear "thats close enough" and in reality it is.

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## shauck

> I believe PLS is a good brand, I have seen contractors with them, Trust me the Green is deffinetly more visible than the Red, indoors or outdoors. 
> We have both and the green one is always the preference to use, but saying that they are only a few mW laser which is in them and you would need a laser of around 1W to see it it bright daylight, but this poses a real safety risk to your eyes, hence lower powered diodes, and handheld sensor. 
> Think about the accuracy, if they have 3mm over 30m this if fine for any normal construction projects 30m is a long distance and you would usually have the laser close to your project, say 5-10 meters away so the accuracy is good. 
> What we do is set a reference point somewhere in the center of what we are doing, and we will move the lader all over the place, and rereference back to the know poita no matter where the laser has moved to, unless you are really moving it far away, but this is not common. 
> +- 3mm over 30m is fine, and any tool is only as accurate as the person using it, the unit is self levelling and should keep itself steady all day, but the person holding the staff and sensor can be all over the shop if your not careful, typically you will hear "thats close enough" and in reality it is. *(isn't?)*

  I don't think I'd usually be as far as 30m away from any set out point although I like that it can work at long distances as I can see future uses for it.  
and yes you can always move it. I would probably mostly use it outdoors which is why I'm considering the Topcon still.  
It's weird isn't it that a piece of equipment is developed to such a level (no pun intended) but the human error factor is left to the user to worry about. Why are the staffs not receiving the same attention?  
When I use a dumpy I use a spirit level and use the bubble to level it facing the dumpy. Only works when the level is long enough for the task tho (e.g. cutting tops of stumps level).  
I think maybe a circular bubble on the staff would be helpful in giving a more accurate reading. I've seen them made for purpose but are they decent enough?

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## METRIX

The recievers have two bubble levels on them, one for getting side to side, and another on top (circular) looking down. 
We dont bother with staffs that often, either a level, or a piece of timber does the job, the trick is to have a nice square cut on the bottom so when you get your height you have a good straight edge to mark with. 
Your right, it's like anything we ask for more accuracy, more this more that, but as the end of the day it coes down to the user.

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## intertd6

The telescopic vs rotating laser level debate really comes down to how often you use it, if the use is going to be often then the laser will pay for itself over time & the most simplest accurate ones are the best ( topcon) buying a brand that is common is a plus because at some stage it will need servicing or repair. Having one with a grade facility is not a good idea unless you have the grey matter to be able to check the grades otherwise if they go out of calibration it can be a very expensive mistake. The most accurate cheapest one person level is still the water level.
regards inter

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## METRIX

+1 for the water level, we still use this because lasers don't go through walls or around corners (yet)

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## intertd6

Another thing about lasers is they will give false readings if your using them around earthmoving equipment that have strobe beacon lights or on larger sites where multiple lasers are being used.
regards inter

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## shauck

> Another thing about lasers is they will give false readings if your using them around earthmoving equipment that have strobe beacon lights or on larger sites where multiple lasers are being used.
> regards inter

  I can see me now, running a big commercial site... Nah.

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## shauck

I think I may have found a contender. Seems to be the only one so far that comes in significantly under the $1000.00 mark and seems to be of some quality and accuracy.   http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...44442042,d.aGc 
For best price $795.00 (includes tripod and staff but no details on these). RedBack Laser CMI Redback Lasers Electronic Levelling Laser Level Package + Tripod + Staff #EL614P  *Features:* * Vibration and Wind Settings (VWS),*  * Tilt and Reachargeable or Standard battery*  * Out of range operation* * Out of Alarm* * Tilt alarm function* * Vibration selectivity* * Multiple rotation speeds* **  *Specifications:* * Electronic Self Levelling* * Range With Receiver Dia : 500m* * Accuracy  : +/- 1.5mm/20mm* * Laser Class II 635nm < 1mW* * Includes receiver LR715 Pro* * Rechargeable battery Ni-Mh* * Dust/Water Resistant* 
(IP66)    *Includes:* * Tripod
 Staff*  *5 Year 'Australia Wide' Warranty*

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## ringtail

Do the job SU. I must buy a laser one of these days :Biggrin:

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## shauck

> Do the job SU. I must buy a laser one of these days

  What do you use? Do you work alone much (I do)?

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## ringtail

I work alone 95% of the time. I'll borrow a builder mates laser when required but I get by with a 4 mt ally straight edge and my level. PITA sometimes to handle but just as accurate as a laser I've found. I had heaps of posts to checkout doing my pool deck and I checked them over and over with the laser and the straight edge and give or take a pencil line, they were the same. The bugger with the laser was I had to keep moving it around the site to get readings, mainly due to the pool in the middle of the site :Tongue:

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## shauck

> The bugger with the laser was I had to keep moving it around the site to get readings, mainly due to the pool in the middle of the site

  Maybe you coulda set it up in the middle of the pool and put your togs on.

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## ringtail

> Maybe you coulda set it up in the middle of the pool and put your togs on.

  
I wouldn't have got much work done  :Biggrin:

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## shauck

Gonna ask one more time.. any feedback/opinions on Redback. I can't make up my mind. I see about a 250 buck savings and not much difference in specs between Topcon RLH4C and Redback EL614P 
Both are IP66
Both have 5 year warranty (both of which pass the fine print perusal). 
Both come with calibration certificate.
Pretty sure both have steel chassis (Redback does for sure), Redback claims it's super tuff, even if knocked over by a reversing car, shouldn't need recalibration!
Both have pretty good outdoor range Topcon 800m, Redback 500m (enough for me) with receiver.
Topcon 1.5mm over 30m and Redback 2.25 over 30m, which is the biggest difference that I can find really (not enough to turn me off). 
I just can't find any feedback on the Redback products.

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## METRIX

Looked at them and I can't see any downsides, great IP66 rating.
Reversing into with a car, MMM not sure about that one, would like to see a warranty claim for this circumstance, OH you hit it with a UTE, well that's not technically a car but a UTE, clause 7 paragraph 98765 states blah blah blah  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  
Overall I think the redback looks good, if they offer a 5 year warranty they must trust it, where are both units made ? 
Their website looks good and has a lot of info, except for the BANG, BANG, BANG every time they put a point up about the laser unit, HOW ANNOYING, BANG,BANG, BANG 
Do they make them in Barbie Pink ?  :Biggrin:  :2thumbsup:  :Biggrin:

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## shauck

> Do they make them in Barbie Pink ?

  Do you think you'd get one if they did?  :Biggrin:  
I'm almost sold on them. I wonder why justtools has such a low price compared to redback website tho. I've shot an email off to redback to see if they can match it. Might have stirred up a hornets nest with that one. Hope not.

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## METRIX

> Do you think you'd get one if they did?

  
100%, It would match our new Flurio PINK leads we have just bought  :Biggrin:  
Always good to stir up some trouble with various suppliers, keeps them on their toes  :2thumbsup:

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## shauck

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of communicating with a particular supplier (back and forward emails). When I mentioned the Redback (which they don't stock) I got a tirade about Topcon's proven name and that "cheaper laser levels are just that...blah de blah...  
They went on to say that they could supply me with a cheaper equivalent that would match the Redback. So... I took the bait and threw a hook myself, as by this stage I was starting to get the impression, this person is all sales speak. I said if you can find me a laser level with equivalent specs and warranty, etc for the same price, I'll be impressed and interested.  
I got a response and looked at the link and of course it was nothing like it. IP54, 250m distance, 2 year warranty, although it was horizontal and vertical but red beam so nothing that flash. No info on it's build quality. Not sure how they can think that's equivalent.  
Anyway... 
I'll wait and see if I get a good response from Redback.

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## shauck

No response from Redback. I went ahead and ordered it anyway. I guess I'll be the guinea pig.

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