# Forum Contacts & Links Estimating & Quoting  Who to ask first about 'extension'

## mxh

I've recently moved into a new house, which (just to complicate things) is in a bushfire zone.  
The front door to the house and the entrance to the garage are linked by a covered path – it's covered by the roof of the house, but is open to the elements – see the plan and photo     - the door in the photo is the garage door 
So to be clear, the house roof covers the path and also the flowerbed in front of it. Also, the flooring is currently the same all through the hallway and out onto the outside area.   
What I'd like to do is add a wall to enclose the path (my red line) and move the front door as well (my purple line) – this would mean that we would have proper internal access to the garage, and also create a lobby for coats, shoes etc that we are currently lacking. I'd probably also want a high level window in the new wall just to allow a bit of light in. 
I'm really not sure who I should be talking to first about this. Is it an extension that needs a DA? Is it allowed under 'complying development'? I tried talking to the council but they just told me that they couldn't advise on what type of permission I'd need, which seemed a bit of a waste of time. I know I could just get a builder in and have them do it, but I'd like to at least attempt to go through the correct channels, compliance-wise.  
Where would you recommend I should start?

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## toooldforthis

normally one starts with the council - but sometimes you get a d1ckhead like you have found.
advice is always general in any case (they won't commit) until you put the plans in. 
btw, I can't see the photos - you will need to upload them. 
most jurisdictions now require building to BAL requirements, even for renos.
if you don't need planning approval for what you propose then you might get away with it but otherwise you will need a BAL assessment then build according to that. 
I would probably start with a local draughtsperson who has worked in that council area - they will know the council regs, BAL requirements etc etc and might even have some good ideas you haven't thought of.

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## phild01

mxh please use this site's image uploader.

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## mxh

> normally one starts with the council - but sometimes you get a d1ckhead like you have found.
> advice is always general in any case (they won't commit) until you put the plans in. 
> btw, I can't see the photos - you will need to upload them. 
> most jurisdictions now require building to BAL requirements, even for renos.
> if you don't need planning approval for what you propose then you might get away with it but otherwise you will need a BAL assessment then build according to that. 
> I would probably start with a local draughtsperson who has worked in that council area - they will know the council regs, BAL requirements etc etc and might even have some good ideas you haven't thought of.

  I'm wondering if I should try the council again and see if I get someone different. I find it odd that they don't offer some practical advice before you commit to drawing up plans etc. I mean, I want to build a single wall - surely they should be able to tell me what sort of planning I need?

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## YoungBolt

Dont know about Sydney, but here in vic you only consult the council if you need a planning approval. If it's work that doesn't require planning approval then you can go straight to the VBA (victorian building authority) and get a building permit from them. Councils can just streamline the process. VBA will issue a permit inline with council bylaws.  
Most houses have some form of unpermitted structure, addition, change etc. We're not talking of anything major like an extension, adding a new level etc. or even risky like a deck high off the ground etc. 
It's basically enclosing in an area that already has a structure.  
You make the choice that you feel is best for you, but I guarantee 95% of people wouldn't bother for what you want to do.  
As for what you want to do, from a perspective of everything being done by the book, black and white, you will likely need some form of  building permit as you're technically adding an extra room onto a existing dwelling. You would first need to enlist a surveyor or registered building inspector to advice you on what needs to be done to enclose it and make it damp proof, then likely enlist a draftsmen to draw up plans for you to submit to the building authority. It shouldn't be more than $5k in cost so you wouldn't need a planning approval. 
Judging by the style of that entrance, I'm guessing that house is at least 30-40 years old. Who apart from the SRO is going to know that the entrance pathway to your house was originally not an enclosed area? Or who is going to know that you closed it in and not only one of the many owners before you?  
If anyone who has bought a house that has been renovated at some point, I'd dare say they'd find something that has changed that is no longer the same as it was according to the plan when it was built.

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## toooldforthis

now I can see the photos I can see it is a minor thing - council ppl was hopeless eh?
sometimes you get a good one tho. 
However I would get some other design input
rather than a very narrow corridor maybe you could pinch some of the courtyard?
or incorporate it by having part of the wall include a metal see through screen? 
or leave it all as it is and put a tasteful security gate right at the front where that little arrow is? with some security at the front of the courtyard too?
that way you do nothing except add a tasteful security panel and a gate

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## mxh

> Dont know about Sydney, but here in vic you only consult the council if you need a planning approval. If it's work that doesn't require planning approval then you can go straight to the VBA (victorian building authority) and get a building permit from them. Councils can just streamline the process. VBA will issue a permit inline with council bylaws.

  
That's my problem though - I have no idea whether I need planning approval or not.     

> Most houses have some form of unpermitted structure, addition, change etc. We're not talking of anything major like an extension, adding a new level etc. or even risky like a deck high off the ground etc. 
> It's basically enclosing in an area that already has a structure.   
> You make the choice that you feel is best for you, but I guarantee 95% of people wouldn't bother for what you want to do.

  
I agree. But I did a couple of minor changes at my last house and it caused a few issues when we came to sell the place.  So to prevent the stress, if it's just a small amount of work / cost to get the correct paperwork, I'd rather do that.    

> You would first need to enlist a surveyor or registered building inspector.

  
Are they tecnically the same thing? If not, which would be the better one to use?    

> Judging by the style of that entrance, I'm guessing that house is at least 30-40 years old. Who apart from the SRO is going to know that the entrance pathway to your house was originally not an enclosed area? Or who is going to know that you closed it in and not only one of the many owners before you?   
> If anyone who has bought a house that has been renovated at some point, I'd dare say they'd find something that has changed that is no longer the same as it was according to the plan when it was built.

  
The fact that domain.com.au now show you the complete online history of a house, including all previous floorplans, pictures from not just the last sale, but any previous ones etc mean that buyers can identify any changes that might previously have gone unnoticed.     

> However I would get some other design input rather than a very narrow corridor maybe you could pinch some of the courtyard?
> or incorporate it by having part of the wall include a metal see through screen?  
> or leave it all as it is and put a tasteful security gate right at the front where that little arrow is? with some security at the front of the courtyard too?
> that way you do nothing except add a tasteful security panel and a gate

  
I like the idea of taking a bit more space if possible. The floor and the first course ofbricks are already in place if I just tale the corridor, but it probably wouldn't be a huge amount of extra work to take a couple of feet of the courtyard as well. Hopefully it won't make getting permission more difficult - I'll find out when I finally work out who to ask!

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## toooldforthis

> ... - I'll find out when I finally work out who to ask!

  they say it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

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## droog

> The floor and the first course ofbricks are already in place if I just tale the corridor,

  That row of bricks appear to be set differently to the brick walls, it is possible that the floor is nothing more than a 50mm garden path without reo and some bricks laid to finish it off. For a wall you will want a proper footing / foundation for it.

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## mxh

> That row of bricks appear to be set differently to the brick walls, it is possible that the floor is nothing more than a 50mm garden path without reo and some bricks laid to finish it off. For a wall you will want a proper footing / foundation for it.

  True - hadn't noticed that. But if you look at the bottom row of bricks on the garage they're half height. So they all actually sit on the same base level. I also dug down the side of the path in the under cover garden bit and it's solid down to at least 200mm (I stopped digging - I didn't reach the bottom of the concrete). So whilst I'd get whoever looks at it to confirm that it's all part of the same concrete slab, I'm pretty sure that it is.

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## joynz

Since it wont be structural its not a big deal.  What are you going to build it with? 
Just go back to Council - with the plans of the existing structure and tell what you want to do. Just make sure you are talking to the correct department. 
Which Council is it?

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## mxh

> Since it won’t be structural it’s not a big deal.  What are you going to build it with? 
> Just go back to Council - with the plans of the existing structure and tell what you want to do. Just make sure you are talking to the correct department. 
> Which Council is it?

  It's Ku-ringigai council 
I was planning to just get it done in brick so it blends in. 
I haven't got any plans yet - so that's the first step then, get some plans drawn up? And that would be through a surveyor or registered building inspector? (still not sure if they're the same thing or not)

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## joynz

> It's Ku-ringigai council 
> I was planning to just get it done in brick so it blends in. 
> I haven't got any plans yet - so that's the first step then, get some plans drawn up? And that would be through a surveyor or registered building inspector? (still not sure if they're the same thing or not)

  Talk to Council first to see what level of approval you need.  Go in person.  If you have the existing construction  plans it will make it easier to explain.  You can then say ‘I want to build a brick wall here and add a door here.  What sort of permit do I need? 
Or you could go directly to a builder who could organise the permits, the drawings if required and the brickie and carpenter. Several ways of doing it.

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## mxh

> Talk to Council first to see what level of approval you need.  Go in person.  If you have the existing construction  plans it will make it easier to explain.  You can then say ‘I want to build a brick wall here and add a door here.  What sort of permit do I need? 
> Or you could go directly to a builder who could organise the permits, the drawings if required and the brickie and carpenter. Several ways of doing it.

  I've already spoken to the council - I asked to make an appointment to see them and would I need drawings etc, but was told that they wouldn't be able to advise on what sort of permit I needed, so it all seemed like a bit of a waste of time. 
Maybe I just got a know-it-all type and I should try again - but it was the council response that prompted me to post this query about what process I should be following.

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## joynz

Yes, I am suggesting you try again. Here is what I found in 10 minutes online (and I’m in Victoria):  *Is it Exempt*?
The Kur-ing-gai website links to a state site that gives more information on the requirements for exempt development. This site says, in subdivision 27 minor external works, that exempt works include the *repair or replacement* of non structural walls. Since you are building a new wall, it may not be exempt. https://pp.planningportal.nsw.gov.au...pt-development  *Is it Complying development?* 
 The council website actually  *invites* you to ask them and even provides a form. I have copied the exact wording from their website below: *
‘Pre-CDC Consultation*  Our certifiers can identify whether your work is complying development or requires a development application. This can save you time, money and frustration. *Please note:* Due to current concerns regarding COVID-19 (Corona Virus), Council is temporarily suspending face to face meetings. Council’s Pre-CDC Consultation service will be provided in the form of detailed written advice. Apply for a Pre-Complying Development Consultation application online Information Sheet for Pre CDC Consultation Service* (pdf.  245KB)*  *How do I apply for a CDC with Council?*  Complete our Application for a CDC* (pdf.  299KB)* and Principal Certifying Authority (PCA) Service Agreement* (pdf.  155KB)* forms and lodge by post or in person. Why choose Council as your PCA?’

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## Pulse

I must say I would just do it, it is already partially enclosed and only a few square metres in size. Do it to BAL regs but don’t bother with council. It is not structural and makes no difference to stormwater, FSR, overshadowing, privacy etc, all the stuff they care about. Discuss with the neighbours first as they might be the only ones to dob you in. Council might even give the same advice if you asked with drawings   
Ttalk

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## joynz

But getting a brick wall built will cost a bit - best to check with Council first.  
As per my post (#15), the OP’s Council provides a form on the website.

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