# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Shower Waste fitting to suit Waterproofing over Screed?

## Batpig

Kind Sirs, 
I am looking to use Davco K10+ to waterproof my Shower Recess soon, but the Technical Literature states that it should be applied _on top of_ the screed (as opposed to the more common _underneath it_). I could probably get around this (no doubt with the help of some other Davco product... :Cool: ), but I kind of like the idea of draining any water off before it can collect somewhat at the bottom of the Screed in the flat base of the Recess anyway... 
I'm just wondering whether any of you might have seen a Puddle Flange/Waste Grate arrangement that was purposely designed for having the WP Membrane up above the Screed? If such a thing existed, I reckon it might look just like one of the normal variable-height type units, except that it might also have a small length of vertical pipe-stub coming up from the Puddle Flange out near the edge, that acted all at once as: 
A) a horizontal "stop point" up to which the Screed was layed (just like Formwork for concrete) in order to keep a central opening clear for insertion of the Grate Neck at a later stage.
B) a vertical "height setter" for the Screed's thickness at this point (again, just like Formwork for concrete...)
C) a vertical face down the inside of which you ran the Waterproofing Membrane. 
I could fairly easily make one with the appropriate additional Flange and some PVC cement myself, but such a thing "off the shelf" would be preferable... 
While I'm at it (if nobody's counting  :Biggrin: ) I might as well sneak in a couple of other related questions too:
1) Who are the main manufacturers of Puddle Flange setups in general - even if they're not making what I'm looking for?
"Art Plastics" seems to have the best range as far as I can tell: http://www.artplastics.com.au/leakControl.asp
2) What would be the best adhesive to stick the Flange down to the top of an existing concrete slab? 
Many Thanks,
Batpig.

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## Vernonv

Hi Batpig,
I'm a little confused (and probably missing your point) but what it the difference between setting the puddle flange into the slab, or setting it into the screed. 
I've just started our bathroom reno and am using a waterproof membrane that sits on top of the screed and I just intend to set a puddle flange into the screed  - level with the top of the screed. The waterproof membrane then goes down into the flange.

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## Batpig

Dear Vern, 
Fair call. Theoretically - probably none, I guess... 
I'm just envisaging that it would be hard to get the Screed right up to the opening of your existing PVC Pipe or Eathernware Opening (so that it offered full support to the underside of the Puddle Flange), without a fair amount of the Mortar falling into the Pipe/Opening when you pushed the Flange into it... 
If you could simply extend the existing Pipe upwards out of the penetration by about an inch or so (ie. the proposed thickness of your Screed around the Waste), there would be no problem, but the trouble is - there's no straight-couple fitting (as far as I know) that "Males" *inside* a 50mm pipe (as opposed to "Femaling" *around* it, which you obviously can't do with an existing concrete slab in the way... :Frown: ). If it's upstairs - through a timber floor - you should be in business... 
But suffice to say, if you could get your pipe up and out of the slab by the desired thickness of your Screed, you could simply then Screed up to it, and then push down something like the LCMEGASD50RND (7th from the top on this page: http://www.artplastics.com.au/leakControl.asp) while the Screed was still wet, and then Waterproof onto the edge of the Flange when the Screed has set. 
Out of interest Vern, what thickness of Screed were you going to go down to at the Waste end of things? 
Many Thanks,
Batpig.

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## Vernonv

Hi Batpig,
I think this is what you are looking for - product SR50SO on http://www.artplastics.com.au/genPlumbProd.asp. 
I am currently looking at having a channel drain running along the back wall of our bathroom. I'm not sure what screed depth I will end up with, but I would like to keep it a minimum of 25 to 30mm if possible.

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## Batpig

Dear Vern,  

> I think this is what you are looking for - product SR50SO on http://www.artplastics.com.au/genPlumbProd.asp.

  Awwww, you are The Man! Nicely spotted! That's just what I need. May the wind be ever at your back Vern... :2thumbsup:  
Best Wishes and Many Thanks,
Batpig.

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## Vernonv

> May the wind be ever at your back Vern...

  Yeah, my lovely wife is always complaining about that ...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Biggrin:

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## journeyman Mick

> Yeah, my lovely wife is always complaining about that ...

  Don't you usually blame the dog? :Biggrin:  
Mick

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## Vernonv

> Don't you usually blame the dog?

  They don't call them man's best friend for nothing. :Biggrin:

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## Animalector

Hey there, 
I am having a similar issue at the moment with my stainless drain grate.   
I will be doing a waterproofing over the screed type setup and I am curious as to the necessity of a leak control flange for this type of setup, since the waterproofing membrane is applied into the drain pipe, there is no way for water to go anywhere but into the drain.. 
I am still considering my options but I was going to fill around the pipe up to the base level of the drain grate, then just install a very basic LCTRAY50 style ( http://www.artplastics.com.au/leakControl.asp ) to provide a safe edge to waterproof over.  The drain grate has a 38mm waste pipe which just sits down into the drain pipe about 70mm. 
Here is installation recommendation for the grate I purchased http://www.iliving.com.au/page7.htm That flange they use looks like a LCTRAY50 style? 
Opinions on this type of setup.. 
Cheers
Andy

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## Batpig

Dear Andy, 
That looks and sounds like it will work to me, but the only thing is, it appears that the LCTRAY50 goes _around_  a 50mm drain pipe (rather than inside it), so you'd have to be in a position to be able to do this, including the joining with the PVC Primer and Cement... 
Best Wishes,
Batpig

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## Animalector

ahh I hadn't realised, it could have beena  problem thanks for that  :Biggrin: ..  
my plan was to:
1.  place the slab repair connector upside down on the 50mm pipe
2.  cement up to drain level, 
3.  Pull it off before the cement dries...that way I can go inside or outside it if need to with the flange 
so does anyone know if a leak control flange essential for an above screed waterproofing membrane? 
Thanks again
Andy

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## Batpig

Dear Andy, 
So it sounds like you'll use the slab-repair fitting as formwork to create a cavity in the screed with a diameter that is the same as a 50mm drain, that will feed down and straight into the actual drain-pipe... 
I'm no expert on the subject whatsoever, but in terms of waterproofing theory from where I sit, I guess the idea sounds okay, as long as the "precipice" (ie. the upper edge of the little mortar cavity you've created) isn't so sharp that your membrane ends up so thin over it that it eventually cracks at that point. If you could "round-over" the edge of the precipice you should be okay. 
That would then boil it down to two further issues:
Firstly, you would need to get the membrane all the way down the cavity and lapping into the pipe, so that shower waste-water isn't able to soak back into your screed underneath your membrane. It would eventually end up coming out in the ceiling below if you're on an upper floor, or attracting termites if you're on the ground floor.
Secondly, you'd have to make sure that the vertical inner-edges of the little cavity weren't so weak, or so high, that they ended up crumbling away into the drain. This could really be an issue if you're just "dry-packing" the screed into place around the slab-repair piece that you are using as formwork. Screed has plenty of compressive strength, but not as much "anti-crumble" (for want of a better term) about it... 
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## Animalector

Hey Batpig,
 the slab repair is not so much for framework but to allow an annulus around the 50mm pipe and to prevent the cement from getting in..  I intend the 50mm pipe to be near level with the surface, that takes away issues such as those mentioned about crumbling cement and sharp edges.  I was going to use a very narrow flange to provide a curved surface, which goes around the outside of the 50mm pipe and waterproof down into tthe pipe about 50mm.. the LCTRAY50 is just much wider platform version but same principle. 
Groovey.. I think the solution is adequate, so long as the membrane goes into the drain, and so long as the edges are protected from cutting / tearing. 
Thanks again, 
Andy (I'll post some pics when I get around to doing it, feel free to do the same  :Biggrin thumb: )

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## sannawi

Gents,
please check the photo, this the shower drain pipe which was embedded in the floor concrete slab which i am changing to use leak control flange, 2 questions: 
the pipe is not vertical (90 deg to the floor), any solution other than digging it out and setting it straight? 
is it ok to embed the pvc pipe in concrete? shouldn't there be a sleeve of some sort?
Thanks

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## Batpig

Dear Sannawi, 
If your Waste-pipe is not entirely straight ( :Rolleyes:   :Biggrin: ), you need to be looking at one of the "Megaflex"-type Puddle-Flanges, which use a rubber O-ring on the spigot to enable a seal with the Waste-pipe at less-than-perfect angles. You also get greater versatility with the vertical positioning of the assembly, to boot... 
They start at the third unit down on this page at the Art-Plastics website: http://www.artplastics.com.au/leakControl.asp 
With regard to burying the PVC pipe in concrete, as far as I know, it's not only okay - it's actually essential for waterproofing reasons when it comes to penetrations through a slab. You might instead be thinking about where a pipe comes through a footing, in which case compressible "lagging" should be used to allow for vertical movement in the foundation soils between wet and dry weather seasons. 
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## an3_bolt

> 2) What would be the best adhesive to stick the Flange down to the top of an existing concrete slab?

  Try Sikaflex 11FC or depending on the plastic Fulaprene 303  :2thumbsup:

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