# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  kitchen and tricky bathroom reno

## Buttercup

We want to renovate bathroom and kitchen of 1950's double-brick house in Perth. 
1. want to pull wall out between kitchen and sleepout to extend kitchen out there with brekkie bar as S/O currently useless space. Any advice?  
2. bathroom is tiny (1700mm x 1930mm) and holds bath and vanity. We want to get bath, loo and vanity in there, and thought perhaps we could take some space from linen cupboard that backs onto it. Any advice?  
3. thinking to save some money might do modular kitchen. Can anyone offer advice on IKEA kitchens or mob here in Perth called Proform? Just how handy do you need to be to put in a modular kitchen?? 
4. can anyone recommend a builder in Perth who would do smallish job like this?? 
We'd really appreacite the benefit of the experience that is floating around this forum. Any advice, hints, recommendations, encouragement even, welcome.  
Thanks,
Buttercup.

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## Big Clint

Buttercup 
I put a new kitchen in an apartment I am renting out about 6 months ago.  At the time I had looked into building it from scratch myself, but didnt go with that option as I was trying to get a tenant back in. 
So I went with the flat packed option and installed it myself.  I had initially looked at ikea, they were actually the cheapest, but only by about $300.  The problem i had with Ikea was that I had an odd shaped kitchen, and the oven and fridge spaces werent standard.  This presented a problem with Ikea as there is not much flexibility.  I think if you have a pretty standard square kitchen ikea would be the go for the cabinets at least.  The bench tops were another matter.  They only sell bench tops in 2 or 3 sizes, you then cut these down yourself and use an infill strip to cover the joint.  i didnt think it looked all that attractive.  The other option would be to get someone to make the bench top for you, or make it yourself.  I have since renovated another kitchen and made the benchtop myself, it wasnt particularly difficult.  But you cant get the post formed style yourself though. 
In the end I bought my kitchen from kitcraft kitchens in osbourne park.  they were a bit more expensive than ikea, but they made up a couple of cupboards to fit my odd shaped kitchen, plus my walls were on an angle of 108 degrees so that complicated things for the bench top, but they came and measured and it all fitted.   
It took me about 3 days to assemble and install the kitchen.  Part of the problem was the complete lack of instructions.  Basically you get a whole heap of melamine, screws, dowels and those cam screw things and not much else.  the normal square cupboards were fairly easy to work out but the more complicated ones like the oven unit and corner units were a real pain, particularly as they all had extra holes in them that didnt seem to correspond to anything. 
They say you can give them a call if you are stuck, but I did it on a long weekend so that was no help.  In the end it all went together, but I would question their claim that anyone could do it.  But if you are reasonably handy and you have a bit of time you should be able to work it out. 
I have since come across Joyce kitchens in o connor that sell do it yourself kitchens as well, but i'm not sure of their pricing. 
Clint

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## Buttercup

Thanks very much for that local experience. I'll check out those 2 suppliers.  
We have friends in Canberra who fitted an IKEA in an old house and then bought up market some years later and fitted another one in the new house, so presumably they must be very happy with them. We thought they just looked a wee bit flimsy though in the showroom.  
Proform claim to give you the full set of instructions so I'll be sure to check that aspect out with all suppliers.  Our kitchen is a stock standard U- shape with no tricky bits so even us practically challenged should be able to have a go.

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## Big Clint

i had wondered how ikea would look after a few years.  it does seem to hold up ok in the display, as they would probably get a fair bit of abuse. 
Also if you do go down the ikea route, i would try and buy your door hardware elsewhere.  try a cabinet hardware place ike Galvins, as Ikea are quite expensive with their knobs and other drawer runners. 
another good source of inspiration is homebase in westperth.  there are alot of kitchen displays there and there are probably a few other places that sell DIY kitchens that I'm not aware of. 
when you buy your sink, check out the sink warehouse in osborne park.  they have a fiar bit of damaged and seconds stuff in the carpark.   i managed to pick up a $350 sink for $30 because it had been dropped and one corner was bent at 90 degrees.  half an hour with a mallet and a block of wood and it looks brand new (well apart from a small crease, but I'm the only one that knows about it). 
clint

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## johnb

i have just fitted a kitchen using Bunnings flat packs.  they were the cheapest units i could find by a long way. They are also very easy to put together - probably about 30mins per cabinet.  The main fault is they do not have adjustable legs or a removeable kickboard.  I have screwed them to a length of treated pine I dynabolted to the wall and packed pieces of ply underneath to get them level.  I will now have to add some sort of strip along the floor to hide the gap.   
I have bought and fitted trendy door/drawer handles to tart them up.  Have also bought some Jarrah planks to make the benchtops (2 290mm wide 20mm thick boards laminated together).  Will start laminating the benchtops tonight.  I will also laminate a 30mm strip of jarrah on the underneath edge of the bench to make it look 40mm thick.  I am going to make a microwave cabinet from scratch to fit the space remaining.
So far it looks very good. :Smilie:   
I got my kitchen drawn up at a kitchen showroom and they quoted $4500 for the cabinets and $4500 for the timber benchtop.  My bunnings units have cost about $1800, the jarrah about $650, knobs $230 with another $300 ish for bits n pieces!! 
Also IKEA has a kitchen design website where you enter your room dimensions then drag and drop their units into the room.

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## Buttercup

Thanks Clint and Johnb for more handy hints.  I'm getting wiser by the minute.

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## GCP310

Just remember that a kitchen is just a series of boxes fitted off with hardware,sitting on a base. really a no brainer.
 its the fitting off where it all comes together. 
draw out your plan, work out your cutting lists and postform tops plan, fax the lot off to three companies for quotes, then order the cheapest.  
Plastic feet are the way to go for kitchens these days. makes fitting so much easier than scribing/packing ladderframe kicks. 
most kitchen companies outsource their postform tops,then add their percentage on top. 
if you go for a flatpack company, just remember that the larger company has a better buying power on hardware and materials than a smaller company. so hinges you pay $10.00 a pair for at bunnings, you may pay $2.50 a pair with a large kitchen company. 
Do your homework, you will save a ton of money.

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## Greg Hudson

Download the IKEA kitchen software to your PC & design at home...  http://www.ikea.com.au/Template3.asp...&site_id=30005 
Regards, Greg.

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## Buttercup

thanks Greg.  
Big Clint - have been to kitcraft and they have prepared quote for me (oblig. and fee free). will go and get it tomorrow.
Told director of kitcraft where I got the recommendation and he was most interested. he asked if I knew your name and I said 'Big Clint'. Made him raise an eyebrow!

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## Jigsaw

I built my kitchen from a flat pack about 3 months ago.
It consisted of about 2.4 metres of wall cupboards, about 5 metres of floor standing cupboards 900mm high and 2.4 metres of floor standing cupboards 1120mm high.
It included about 6 metres of 600mm deep laminated bench top and 2.4 metres of 400mm deep laminated bench top.
All cupboard doors, kickboards and end (cover) panels were done in two pack paint. Total price was about $4,700. Each carcas had solid 16mm HMR top, bottom, sides, back and (at least) one shelf.
It was easy to assemble (about 600 screws). Everything predrilled, all screws, hinges etc provided. The only things not provided were door handles. I chose ones at Bunnies at about $7.10 each. I needed 27 handles plus a couple of spares came to about $192. I went to Wilson & Bradleys (no office in Perth) and they wanted $128 for 30 handles. However the price for 50 handles was $114. 20 extra handles for $14 less.
With regard to design, you should consider putting in drawers (where possible) rather than cupboards. Cupboards usually have two shelves (one on the bottom and one midway). If you put in drawers you have an extra shelf plus you can get to the rear stuff a lot easier.
With respect to cupboard and drawer fronts, ask them what the drawer fronts look like. My 3 drawer drawer fronts were done differently than the 3 drawer fronts because they had limited space on the 4 drawer fronts. I took them back and had them done the same. Evidently the way they did it was their standard way?
With the corner cupboards, I installed an extra 250 mm shelf above the middle shelf otherwise you have a lot of wasted space. It is easier to make this yourself and put it in before you screw the carcas together. Before you assemble the corner units, if you assemble them in the garage, make sure you can get the finished unit through the kitchen door.
With respect to appliances, buy them first and take the specs with you to the kitchen place so that the cupboards can be made correctly. The range hood cupboard will be slightly smaller. You also have to make allowance for the flue to go through the cupboard. 
The sink basin has to fit in the space of a cupboard width. My oven had two different heights for the cutouts, they allowed an extra 11mm cutout space (for ventilation) for an under bench oven as opposed to a wall mounted oven. 
The hardest part of the installation is getting the damm things level and plumb. I don't think the wood butchers who built the house owned a level. The walls were not vertical or square and the floor was not horizontal.
I could go on forever here.
If you wish to contact me direct, please send an email.

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## Greg Hudson

Quoted:
The hardest part of the installation is getting the damm things level and plumb. I don't think the wood butchers who built the house owned a level. The walls were not vertical or square and the floor was not horizontal. 
I could go on forever here.  
G'Day Jigsaw...
Given your experience with this kitchen, I would be interested to read (here) how you managed to cure the problems created by 'the wood butchers'  :Redface: ) 
e.g. What techniques did you employ for attaching the cupboards to the walls, and still have it all plumb? 
If there were gaps on the sides of any cupboards, how did you hide them ? 
I could go on & on... 
Regards, Greg.

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## Jigsaw

Greg,
The corner cupboards (900mm by 900mm with 300mm doors)were designed so that the sides touched the walls but both of the backs were recessed in about 18mm. This meant that the corner could be out of square by about 18mm with no effect. 
When the bottom of the cupboards were sitting on the floor, the top of the cupboards were about 10mm away. As I was installing tiles on the splash backs it just meant that I had to put some extra cement sheet on the walls to attach the tiles to. 
When installing all of the cupboards in a line (say 2400mm of cupboards) you are actually trying to get one big box level rather than 4 smaller ones. Each carcas is joined to the one beside with the special connecting screws (provided). As the cabinets are made with CNC macinery the holes can be about .5mm out but this did not present a problem. I packed up the bottom of each carcas to get the whole lot level. This means I had to put some quad on the floor to cover the 10-15mm gap. The way you are supposed to do it, is to cut the 10mm (e.g.) off the bottom of the cupboards. Then all of the kickboards would need to be cut down. 
I attached wall and floor standing cupboards to the stud walls. I did find however that 2 of the studs were eaten away. It wasn't white ants, and it was only the sapwood that was eaten. I was informed it probably happened when the house was built 25 years ago.
One of my wall cupboards did not sit flush against the wall (the wall lost about 15mm over 900mm). I had to put a piece of quad in here.
I also ensured that all of the holes were filled in the walls so the little mickey mouses didn't come in. The plumber and electrician don't worry about this they just belt a few holes in the plaster (because it is hidden from view).
My cupboard carcas depth was 550mm, the oven needed 550mm depth so I had to leave the HMR back off the cupboard and removed a piece of plaster from the wall behind the oven. The oven also needed better breathing space so I routed some grooves under the lip of the bench top.
I had better stop here, I don't know if there is a character limit per message.

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## jackiew

Consider having deep drawers for your saucepans and for all those bits of tupperware plastic ( I'm sure tupperware breeds ) - Drawers beat the hell out of having to remove everything from the cupboard to get to something at the back.    
I only know this because they had saucepan drawers in a house I rented and now in my own place ( 1950s kitchen) I'm reduced to unpacking the cupboards everytime I want something.   Also go and look at a few "upmarket" kitchen shops if you can get past the salespeople they have some really neat ideas. 
I watched a friend levelling his kitchen counters ( floor sloped in all directions) and adjustable legs are definately desirable features.    He had probs because the company that made some of his kitchen units still made them but they'd changed the drawer front designs over time.    I think the secret is if they don't match don't put them side by side  :Smilie:  
Re the bathroom - i had a tiny bathroom in my last house in the uk ( they'd stolen part of the half landing on the stairs) the toilet seat sort of overhung the side of the bath the room was that small, and there wasn't enough room to open a door fully into the room without hitting the bath.   There wasn't a washbasin ( previous owner used the bath taps for hand washing water ) 
I ripped out the airing cupboard ( was in the same room ) and fitted a vanity basin in the space with cupboards built above it ( high enough up so that you wouldn't bash your head as you leaned over the basin).     
If you do rip out your linen cupboard be aware of the space required to fit a "normal" vanity basin.  The available space (width and breadth and depth ) for my  basin was much less than that for a standard vanity basin (i.e. one from the equivalent of Bunings )- and sods law says that the smaller the basin is the more expensive it will be.   I also moved the bath to actually butt up to the wall ( the plumber had fitted it about 2" away from the wall for some reason - not the brightest in a small room ).   
( NOTE I did this in the uk where you can do your own plumbing and wiring - and I only did it myself after a succession of plumbers looked at the available working room,  sucked in their breath through their teeth and either gave a p*ss off price for the work or went away and were never heard from again).   
If you give up your linen cupboard  you would have to find a new home for all the stuff currently lurking in there!

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## kingmatt

Just thought I'd give the benefit of my experience with the bunnings flatpacks.
Found them great, for the price.
Few problems, the screwholes needed to be redrilled and properly lined up. Used a mitre clamp cost $4.
Other than that it is a fine product. Very impressed with the supplied hardware.
Job was quoted by a couple of cabinet makers at $1500 for fitted cupboards. I ended up doing the equivalent for around $600.
Just did it carefully and worked fine.

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## dolbydix

Hi All 
I am also in the process of renovating a 1950's home we bought in auction. We have budgeted 15K for a kitchen reno, a shower cab next to the toilet and a toilet in the existing spacious bath.  
I found the reponses on this forum were quite informative and exhaustive. Thanks to all whose input has been just great! 
I would welcome any ideas, suggestions, to help us with our reno job. 
We have looked at IKEA kitchens and their toilet products and didn't find them too bad(they even offer a 20 years guarantee!) but people have advised us against going for IKEA as they are not rel but guys like HN just suck you dry...was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction if I am not asking for too much. 
Thanks in advance. 
Regards

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## renomart

Dolbydix, 
I may be able to help you. I supply low cost, hi quality pre assembled kitchens (not flatpacked) for the home renovator / property investment market. Here is a link for a basic L shaped kitchen with pricing. You can email me with a plan of your kitchen if you wish.

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## Sprog

Ross's Mitre 10 in Maylands and Guildford design and make their own kitchens. Worth a look.
241 Railway Parade, Maylands
57 James Street, Guildford.

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## arms

[ 
I am also in the process of renovating a 1950's home we bought in auction. We have budgeted 15K for a kitchen reno, a shower cab next to the toilet  
try here www.kitcheninabox.com.au

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## dolbydix

> Ross's Mitre 10 in Maylands and Guildford design and make their own kitchens. Worth a look.
> 241 Railway Parade, Maylands
> 57 James Street, Guildford.

   Thanks Sprog! but we live in Sydney. Can you suggest someone here? 
Regards

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## dolbydix

Hi Kingmatt 
Could you pls upload pictures, if any, of your kitchen design? Please also provide info on how you went about your work, any input would be greatly helpful. 
Regards

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## Paul B

We've just been through this, still going through it. Ours gets delivered on Wednesday. We bought lamikit flat packed cupboards made by laminex industries, way cheaper than ikea, and sounds about the same price as bunnies. Plastic adjustable feet, removable kickboard, delivered to our door. 
The money we're saving on flat packs we can put into a nice granite benchtop.

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