# Forum Home Renovation Pergolas, Gazebos, Strombellas & Rotundas  Extending Beam by 1meter

## gbx78

Hi all, 
Im in the process of fixing up an old carport/pergola out of timber. My issue is Its 7meters in length so a post at one end.. a post at 3.5meters or thereabouts and attached to the side of a brick garage. So 5.4meters in depth cause thats the length of the carport and thats the length of the rafters and zinc alum roofing. now my issue is.. is it best to have 2 x 3.5m beams meeting at the posts in the middle? OR i have 6meter beams and then extend the timber using a suitable joining method by 1meter to meet the end post at the 7meter mark.. that way the beam at the middle post at 3.5m would be continuous and no "weak" spots from 2 single pieces. I would need to do this for the other end of the 5.4m width .. i havent decided if im going to bring in the posts so that the rafter span is only 4m in the middle or perhaps have a 3rd beam in the middle to support any sag that "may" occur or just for piece of mind strengthening.. 
so i guess to breif the question.. 7meter length of beam required. I have a 6meter 8x2 (with a 8x2 offcut that i "could" join to make the full 7meter) and a 6 meter 6x2 (again with an offcut to complete the 7meter length) ... ORR i can easily cut them at 3.5meter lengths and join at the middle posts. ive been told both options are viable and common .. although i thought id ask behind my local area to see what other professionals or experienced people can suggest.  
thanks

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## ringtail

Nope, it cant be done ( legally). " All joints in bearers shall occur only over supports with adequate bearing for both members " ( AS 1684.2) Although some engineered nail plate products allow joins to occur without support but must comply to the relevant standard or be designed by an engineer. Save yourself the drama and join in the middle I reckon. Or buy an LVL the correct length

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## gbx78

> Nope, it cant be done ( legally). " All joints in bearers shall occur only over supports with adequate bearing for both members " ( AS 1684.2) Although some engineered nail plate products allow joins to occur without support but must comply to the relevant standard or be designed by an engineer. Save yourself the drama and join in the middle I reckon. Or buy an LVL the correct length

  Hi there thanks for the reply .. so what if i put a post at the 3meter mark then at the next 3 meter mark (that would be the join) then again at the 7meter mark .. so essentially like you said an extra post to support the join. While i know this would mean an extra post but i could just put lattice in between that 1 meter section to make it look like it was suppose to be like that and like a sealed off section perhaps (3meters per section is enough for a car to fit anyway) .. or is it better like you said also to just make the joins in the middle. I guess my question is .. is it more stronger/stable to keep the beams i have at its full length of 6meters or is it pretty much the same to use 2 smaller 3.5s and join in the middle with a support post. if using the full length and just adding another post at that 6meter join is stronger than 2 joins barely sitting on a post then i would be happy to do that. Or even if i use 2x 3.5m lengths and sit them on posts i can use timber braces to connect from quarter way down on the post to similar on the beam for extra support. 
i got the 6meter lengths cause thats what my timber yard here said was the maximum length. Its no biggie i have a few options.. i guess i just want to make good use of the timber i have and would hate to have cut into a full 6meter length if it was better to leave it and just put another post at the 1meter mark.. I "could" sacrifice that meter and just make it 6 x 5.4 but if i was gunna do that i coulda saved a lot of effort and just bought a zinc alum or colorbond 6 x 5.5 double carport kit for not much more than the timber.. but i feel the timber will give me the "look" i want .. and that look is "workmanship".. you know when you just stand there and say "i did that" and bang the post.. hehe and hope it doesnt fall down.  
i hope that makes sense, im not fussed either way as i know its going to look good and completey change the look of my back yard. 
i just like the input from more experienced do'ers in case ive missed some ideas.
thanks again

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## ringtail

No probs at all strength wise to join over a post. As long as the bearers have adequate support ( 50 mm) of bearer in contact with the post ( each one) its all good and a totally common and acceptable solution. Even though the bearers are joined over that centre post they are deemed to be single span bearers rather than continous but it matters not. There are some pretty fancy joining methods around if you want to show off workmanship, or just do a half lap join with 2 x M 12 Gal bolts through the bearers and post. I assume that the posts are 100 x 100 or 90 x 90 ? . If your beam is 200 x 50 ( 8 x 2 ) and your post is 100 or 90 square, just check out the post  50 mm for 200 sit your bearers in, clamp, drill and bolt. Sweet as.

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## gbx78

> No probs at all strength wise to join over a post. As long as the bearers have adequate support ( 50 mm) of bearer in contact with the post ( each one) its all good and a totally common and acceptable solution. Even though the bearers are joined over that centre post they are deemed to be single span bearers rather than continous but it matters not. There are some pretty fancy joining methods around if you want to show off workmanship, or just do a half lap join with 2 x M 12 Gal bolts through the bearers and post. I assume that the posts are 100 x 100 or 90 x 90 ? . If your beam is 200 x 50 ( 8 x 2 ) and your post is 100 or 90 square, just check out the post  50 mm for 200 sit your bearers in, clamp, drill and bolt. Sweet as.

  Yeah the posts are 90x90 (the new ones) but i have some of the old ones are 100x100 but are split in places, so i "can" use them in the middle to give more space for the beams to sit on .. but yeah exactly what you said was what i was thinking. I have the 2x M12 Gal bolts all ready to go .. im just in the process of painting first to make it easier.. but in the meantime i thought id see what others thought of that situation and what way "they" would go if they wer ein my position. Its always good to hear what others think or suggest... 
i appreciate your time to respond. I now know the way im gunna go.. 
just fyi, the previous design that was up (was there when i bought the place)  was still the 7 x 5.4 except the 8x 2 was 3meters in along the 7m length and ran parallel to the 5.4m width and then the last beam was at the end and the rafters sat on a dynabolted beam on the brick garage wall (5.4m).. so the rafters met along the middle on that beam therefore the battens perp. to the rafters and therefore the roofing (water direction) was running parallel to the 7m length .. it was pitched down twards the middle.. unsightly and was bowing in places.. anyway .. i want to run the water along the 5.4m width as the water will then run off onto the grass (or even gutter down the track) so this is why im having these design issues. I want to maintain the surface area coverage but now the rafters have to run parallel to the 5.4 m width which is the side of the brick garage which means my beams will now run the 7meter lengths. if that makes sense at all.. so im debating whether the 4x2 (5.4m) oregon rafters will run that span of 5.4m or smaller (i could have 600mm hang either side which makes the middle span of the rafters 4.2m) with just 2 beams or if id need a middle beam running to provide support and no sag..  
the other question i have. my beams that will run the 7m length are 2 sizes 6x2  and 8x2 .. im pretty sure the 8x2 will sit on the shorter posts where the water will run off .. and the 6x2 will sit at the higher end. As im pretty sure, unless my memory fails me, that the most of the load even though distributed anyway, would sit at the lower beam cause gravity and the direction of the weight is falling twards that lower beam (i worked out the slop difference would be about 100mm).. i could be wrong . .perhaps you could shed some light on ur thoughts..  
alot to take in and repsond to i know . .im in no hurry . .just getting ideas .. the locals here seem to think its acceptable to work either way .. 
again appreciate your time to read and comment ..thanks

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## ringtail

In theory, all the weight should be projected vertically down through the bearers, into the posts, then into the foundations regardless of slope. Thats why things like roof rafters have a birdsmouth notch to provide a seat in the rafter that is parallel to the top plate, or in your case the 8 x 2 beam. Sure there is a tendancy for framing members to slide downhill when placed on a angle but this does not make one end heavier than the other, if you know what I mean. The shallower the pitch of the roof, the less need for birdsmouth notching. You have a very shallow roof pitch there, I make it about 2 degrees, which is near enough to be deemed a flat roof. You wont need any notches on your rafters, just a skew nail and 1 triple grip. The 4 x 2 's sound a bit skinny to span 5.4. I would go 150 x 50 F14 HWD, but thats me. I assume that you are using trimdeck tin sheeting with that shallow pitch, so there is not much weight up there. Your main drama will be the deflection in the 4 x 2's from their own weight, not the tin. You could get away with pine aswell, something like 200 x 45 MGP 12 but you would have to check the span tables to be sure. Dont forget to prime all checkouts and endgrain ( at least) with oil based primer.

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## gbx78

Ahhh of course. Thanks for that info. Well the timber yard suggested tge 4x2 oregon ill double check its 4x2.. So ive already had them delivered. Id like to use them if posible even if it means a third middle beam to support which would reduce the span by half and looking at some span tables a 4x2 would be sufficient unless im understanding it wrong hehe. Yes ill seal the checkouts n end grains etc. I have a second separate pergola from tge house that im goin to put up but much smaller n standard, that will overlap this carport aswell so ill need more planning so the posts from both lineup etc. Thanks again 
EDIT: forgot to mention .. i just have standard zincalum corrugated roof sheeting 5.4m lengths and i think from memory 870mm wide.. 
DOUBLE EDIT: i forgot to ask with the triple grips.. is it best to be placed INSIDE the frame or on the outside? or it doesnt matter? im guessing asthetics comes into play here and inside the frame is better? .. i noticed there are left side and right side triple grips. is there a situation where you would use either? as far as i can see it just depends which side of the rafter you want the bracket on ? just want to make sure before i get the wrong ones.. i hate it when that happens  :Biggrin:

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## r3nov8or

You really should use Trimdek ("5 ridge") for a 2 degree fall, as corrugated is only recommended down to 5 degrees. Trimdek has taller ridges and a better lapping profile to prevent leaks under heavy rain conditions. But your call. 
I would also suggest the 4x2 (100mm x 50mm) rafters are too skinny for the span. If you add another beam you'll split your opening in half with a posts through the middle. The more posts the more likely cars doors will hit them  :Smilie:  
DRP 70 at this guide http://www.renovateforum.com/attachm...ables-roof.pdf, which only goes to 4500mm spans, lists rafters of 150x50 or 170x50 depending on wood grade. But with a centre beam you could use the 4x2 (100x50).  
I would use appropraitely larger rafters for the 5400 span and no centre beam.

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## gbx78

Ok well it would seem ive been given some incorrect suggestions from the timber yard.. perhaps i can return what is incorrect for exchange of tthe correct timbers and roofing.. so based on this "possible assumption" , let me start from scratch: 
I have a brick standalone single garage 5.4m in width. Now id like to extend out 7meters to make a ccovered carport or entertainment area etc. Id like the water flow to be parallel to the 5.4m. I currently have 6 treated pine 90x90 posts (which i cant return cause ive painted now)..  
what, in your opinion can you suggest that i would require as a rough guide. Ive done the labour before but never the design. Im avoiding council red tape as they want 800bucks just to come out and give it a tick. considering theres already something there of this size (that ill be pulling down, tho i just want to change the water direction). I think if i left the current design the slope would be tooo much over the 7meter length and would be really low at the other end .. otherwise this would be soooo much easier .. cause the beams would be at 0, 3.5meters and at 7meters .. then the rafters would only span 3.5m (x2) and meet at the middle. cept the roofing is only 5.4m lengths so i would have to over lap and cut to make up the 7meter length but due to the water flow direction i cant image it would leak. 
*arghh* am i over thinking such a simple task.. or is it just that i have been given the wrong timber to start with? 
EDIT If i cant return anything then i mite just have to do up a design that suits the sizes and roofing i have. even if it means something alot smaller. 
DOUBLE EDIT: perhaps i should list (when i get home) what timbers ive had delivered and was suggested to give a better picture for comments.

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## Bedford

> DOUBLE EDIT: perhaps i should list (when i get home) what timbers ive had delivered and was suggested to give a better picture for comments.

  And could you add a drawing with measurements of what you intend as well, as it's getting a  bit confusing. :Smilie:

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## gbx78

> And could you add a drawing with measurements of what you intend as well, as it's getting a bit confusing.

   :Smilie:  yes im sorry it is isnt it .. i did up a quick drawing (my tech school days didnt sink in obviously and i was good at it too oh well) .. i scanned it in ..  
now this is the backyard and just to add my block slopes to the back of the yard..im open to suggestions.. its flexible if there are better ideas. i do want to use timber. 
When i get home i shall take a look what the timber yard delivered me. I can confirm i have 6 x 90x90 new treated pine posts with stirrups to bolt to the concrete. and 10 sheets of zinc allum with that corrogated style profile which are 5.4m long and i think 760 wide (now when i think about it) 
I also have the old carport which has some useable timber (including some posts and beams) but ITS design had the water flow coming into the middle of the 7m length like one big valley.. which looks ugly and is all rusted out and falling apart. id like the water flow to follow the slop of the land and onto the grass (ill get gutters though) 
I just need help with the frame. I dont mind having posts in the middle.. its really an entertainment area but incase of hail storm i can put my car under temporarily because the 67 mustang fastback would occupy the brick garage .. umm thats when i get one  :Biggrin:

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## gbx78

and this is what i was thinking to do regarding posts and beams and rafters.. was bring the frame in a little maybe 600 either side of the 5.4m length... drawing isnt to scale but just gives you an idea.

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## Bedford

If you still want to use the 6m beams, if you added a couple more posts, you could come 500mm left of the garage onto a post, then 3m to the center post, 3m to the next post and then 500mm to the last post. These side bits could be filled in with some lattice or something and look ok. This would still give you about 2.9m clearance width for a car. 
If it was mine, I would go for a 7m laminated beam or a galvanised C section beam. :Smilie:

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## gbx78

> If you still want to use the 6m beams, if you added a couple more posts, you could come 500mm left of the garage onto a post, then 3m to the center post, 3m to the next post and then 500mm to the last post. These side bits could be filled in with some lattice or something and look ok. This would still give you about 2.9m clearance width for a car. 
> If it was mine, I would go for a 7m laminated beam or a galvanised C section beam.

  Hi Bedford thanks for taking the time to look and respond. I currently have an 8x2 6m beam (i also have the old 8x2 5meter beam from the old carport i can chop up) and also 6x2 6m beam.. and also 4 6x2 (4,8m) beams .. could i use those to be the 3m parts you mentioned. So use the 2 6meter beams on the outsides of the frame and then cut the 2 x 4.8 metere (6x2)s to size for the middle support? and like you said the lattices to fill in on the outsides would actually look good and provide a barrier ( i have a puppy who would appreciate that as thats where her bed is) .. i kinda like that idea now you've painted the picture in my head. hmmmm so the question is the sizes i have are they suitable for 3 beams running that 7m length eithe rin sections or like you mentioned above.. i think RINGTAIL mentioned a similar idea to yours as well. How do you stop 3 parallel 7meter beam sections from swaying? is this where a 5.4m at the end running from corner to corner would secure this? would i need a cross section int he middle 5.4m as well? or is it ok for the 3 x 7m lengths running parallel and fixated at the other end twards the fence line?  
or once all the rafters and battens are up it all supports itself ... id hate for it to lean  :Biggrin:  which is what my current one is doing ..hence the replacement 
thanks again .. it makes me feel better to discuss with people in the know and get better understandings etc.

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## Bedford

> Hi Bedford I currently have an 8x2 6m beam (i also have the old 8x2 5meter beam from the old carport i can chop up) and also 6x2 6m beam.. and also 4 6x2 (4,8m) beams

   I think if you cut and used these 8x2 at 3.5m would be ok, but needs to be confirmed by the span tables which you can look up.  

> could i use those to be the 3m parts you mentioned.

   Yes I think so.  

> So use the 2 6meter beams on the outsides of the frame

   Should be ok they're only spanning 2.7   

> and then cut the 2 x 4.8 metere (6x2)s to size for the middle support?

   Not sure where these came from, but I think we had them used above.   

> How do you stop 3 parallel 7meter beam sections from swaying?

   Run some hoop iron bracing diagonally to stiffen and keep it square.   

> would i need a cross section int he middle 5.4m as well?

   Not sure what you mean here.   

> id hate for it to lean

  Me too! :Biggrin:  :Wink:

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## ringtail

Ok. Looks ok to me. If you want to delete that post in the middle that shouldn't be too hard. The 6 x 2 and 8 x 2 bearers would span the 3.5 mt front and back easily. For the centre bearer ii would use a H3 treated LVL 240 x 45 ( guessing at the size but shouldn't need any bigger) completely primed and painted before installation. Remember, its just a tin roof. Bugger all weight up there. I would chem set or dyna bolt a pole plate to the existing brick wall on the desired pitch, then sit my bearers on top of the pole plate and secure with triple grips and a skew nail. Then continue the bearers across the centre ( front and back) posts, joined if required, and out to the perimeter posts. With the centre bearer ( LVL) you could run another bearer ( say a 150 x 50 ) underneath it and hang it off the front and back centre posts. This would half the span of the centre bearer and take a bit of spring out of centre section.

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## gbx78

> I think if you cut and used these 8x2 at 3.5m would be ok, but needs to be confirmed by the span tables which you can look up. Yes I think so. Should be ok they're only spanning 2.7  Not sure where these came from, but I think we had them used above.  Run some hoop iron bracing diagonally to stiffen and keep it square.  Not sure what you mean here. 
>  Me too!

  I Bedford.. sorry im home now so i can confirm that i have 4 6x2 3.6m beams as these were initially going to be the outer frame.. i also have the 6x2 6m piece aswell. 
the brace i was talking about was a piece of wood that runs between the 2 outer corner posts .. i thought might be required to hold it together at that end.. ? but you answered that for me with the iron bracing to keep it all square.. could i use some timber for corner bracing from some offcuts of 4x2 and boltd them in or couch screw? 
i appreciate your time on this as i do with ringtail aswell. looks like i wont have to deal with the timber yard again and make do with what i have been given .. which is fine .. im not after a particular "look" just something workable and ha can cover that surface area thats all

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## ringtail

carport dwg.pdf  
Maybe something like this ?

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## gbx78

> Ok. Looks ok to me. If you want to delete that post in the middle that shouldn't be too hard. The 6 x 2 and 8 x 2 bearers would span the 3.5 mt front and back easily. For the centre bearer ii would use a H3 treated LVL 240 x 45 ( guessing at the size but shouldn't need any bigger) completely primed and painted before installation. Remember, its just a tin roof. Bugger all weight up there. I would chem set or dyna bolt a pole plate to the existing brick wall on the desired pitch, then sit my bearers on top of the pole plate and secure with triple grips and a skew nail. Then continue the bearers across the centre ( front and back) posts, joined if required, and out to the perimeter posts. With the centre bearer ( LVL) you could run another bearer ( say a 150 x 50 ) underneath it and hang it off the front and back centre posts. This would half the span of the centre bearer and take a bit of spring out of centre section.

  hi ringtail .. that sounds good to me, i currently have a 6x2 dynabolted on the brick wall but it is level so i was thinking of undoing the bolts and set to desired pitch and re-dynabolt so like u said i can sit the beams on there. and secure with a triple grip brackets..  
i appreciate ur input and time to comment as i do with bedford's comments.. looks like i can do this with what i have been given ..even tho mite not be an efficient way.. its still doable.. any surplus timber i have i can use it on the other pergola which is smaller and comes off the house easily... 
thank you once again.. ill read over both your notes again and again to make sure i understand properly what i need to do or what i can and cant do with the timber i have and if i have any stupid questions ill be sure to ask ..  :Biggrin:

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## gbx78

can i just say that the wealth of information you have provided me is priceless. im unfortunate and dont have anyone i know that i can trust that can help me with the technical side of things in these scenarios. So im left going blind with what people tell me. I initially was going to get someone to do it .. but the amount of mucking around and "no shows" for quotes was amazing not to mention ridiculous quotes 3 times the cost of timber involved.. when i have the skills and tools to do by myself (with a extra helping hands)  just needed the right guidance... and here are 2 strangers to me not out to make money but out to help and provide guidance and possible solutions to my situation im in.. its like "heres pieces of wood ..now make it work for this scenario".. and you did that... i really appreciate that.  :Biggrin: DDDDD :2thumbsup:

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## gbx78

...i rest my case .. as im just typing how appreciative i am of the priceless help your both giving me .. ringtail actually takes the time to draw up a design with notes and pointers color coded and all .. you are the man!! if i was still living in brisbane i woulda shouted u a beer or 2 or 3 hehe legend .. you just made it all clear for me .. thank you soo much! bedford will have to come to qld then hehehe both of you  :2thumbsup:

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## ringtail

No problems mate. I went through all the same crap as an owner builder, then decided to change trades from a motor mechanic to a chippy. Did a mature aged apprenticeship and now work for myself. I know that getting info out of tradies is like getting blood from a stone sometimes but I as I had to learn everything from scratch, I'm only too happy to help someone out who is willing to have a go. Have fun.and try to always look for the simple and logical fix. Its always hiding there somewhere, just gotta find it. Oh, safety first too. Really easy to hurt yourself. Use common sense and you'll be fine.

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## gbx78

> You really should use Trimdek ("5 ridge") for a 2 degree fall, as corrugated is only recommended down to 5 degrees. Trimdek has taller ridges and a better lapping profile to prevent leaks under heavy rain conditions. But your call. 
> I would also suggest the 4x2 (100mm x 50mm) rafters are too skinny for the span. If you add another beam you'll split your opening in half with a posts through the middle. The more posts the more likely cars doors will hit them  
> DRP 70 at this guide http://www.renovateforum.com/attachm...ables-roof.pdf, which only goes to 4500mm spans, lists rafters of 150x50 or 170x50 depending on wood grade. But with a centre beam you could use the 4x2 (100x50).  
> I would use appropraitely larger rafters for the 5400 span and no centre beam.

  hi there.. strangely enough i just got the email notification for your response just now yet the post was from yesterday>?? i didnt see it and i appologise.. unfortunately i have to use the zinc alum ive got so if that means make a bigger pitch angle i will and ill be making the frame smaller and use some over hang to shorten the span.. i dont mind the middle post as its purely there for emergency carport situations its more for shelter from rain and sun  and to sit around. my second pergola cannot have a middle post etc.. so i will be purchasing larger rafters for this to meet the 4.8m span. ill keep that link/pdf of tables thats very handy!! thank you

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## ringtail

Got it finished yet ? LOL. About 7 degress works pretty well for custom orb. I just had a thought ( first for the day ), if you used a deeper rafter for the two ends and one in the middle, say 6 x 2 minimum, and keep the tops level with the others by checking them out over the bearers, the bottoms of the 3 deeper ones would be projecting below the others. So, you could then run a 4 x 2 under the rafters and pick up the deeper centre one, sort of like an under purlin. I can draw you another piccy if you cant visualise it. Bugger it, I'll do it anyway

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## r3nov8or

> hi there.. strangely enough i just got the email notification for your response just now yet the post was from yesterday>?? i didnt see it and i appologise.. unfortunately i have to use the zinc alum ive got so if that means make a bigger pitch angle i will and ill be making the frame smaller and use some over hang to shorten the span.. i dont mind the middle post as its purely there for emergency carport situations its more for shelter from rain and sun  and to sit around. my second pergola cannot have a middle post etc.. so i will be purchasing larger rafters for this to meet the 4.8m span. ill keep that link/pdf of tables thats very handy!! thank you

  You didn't miss my earlier post, it just didn't appear when it should have for some reason. I actually thought I'd done something wrong, and voila! here it is a day later. Good luck on the project.

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## gbx78

> Got it finished yet ? LOL. About 7 degress works pretty well for custom orb. I just had a thought ( first for the day ), if you used a deeper rafter for the two ends and one in the middle, say 6 x 2 minimum, and keep the tops level with the others by checking them out over the bearers, the bottoms of the 3 deeper ones would be projecting below the others. So, you could then run a 4 x 2 under the rafters and pick up the deeper centre one, sort of like an under purlin. I can draw you another piccy if you cant visualise it. Bugger it, I'll do it anyway

  hahaha no not yet .. wont stop raining and i want to paint the timber at least. i "think" i know.. but yeah a diagram says a thousand words doesnt it.. ill wait to see what u mean. No rush.

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## gbx78

> You didn't miss my earlier post, it just didn't appear when it should have for some reason. I actually thought I'd done something wrong, and voila! here it is a day later. Good luck on the project.

  Yeah this isnt the first forum, ive seen this happen. Thanks for you advice aswell.. im taking EVERYTHING im being advised on board. and i appreciate everyones input  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Something like this. The under purlin that mirrors the one drawn  ( goes to the other side) could be off set a little bit to allow for fixing into the deeper rafters. 
I imagine your head is about to explode.  carport dwg 2.pdf

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## gbx78

> Something like this. The under purlin that mirrors the one drawn  ( goes to the other side) could be off set a little bit to allow for fixing into the deeper rafters. 
> I imagine your head is about to explode.  carport dwg 2.pdf

  ok brain explosion but i think i understand it now after staring at it hahahaha. So the 6x2s in your drawing run parallel with the rafters and water direction. so the battens would sit flush across the 4x2s aswell as the 6x2 end and middle section.  so basically the 6x2s in ur drawing are running along the 5.4m lengths. what im unsure is the couch screws in the drawing or how they sit on a post? it might come to me if i stare and tilt my head a bit .. but it is late.  :Biggrin:  
EDIT: i think i got what you mean now so the other half to the right of the drawing will just be offsite to fit under the purlin.. and a post would sit offset to that on the red 6x2s.. if im correct in understanding that now.. what id prefer is whatever timber the rafters sit on to be sitting directly on a post.  i had a thought tday (yes a first also, this thing is occupying my mind 24x7) .. if im resting the ends (previous model drawing you gave me) on the pole plate which will be at the correct pitched angle and one 7m length would be 8x2 and the other opposite end is a 6x2 isnt that going to cause the rafters to not sit flush with the connecting timber at either end.. wouldnt both ends (including middle support) need to be the same size so the height is the same in order for the rafters to sit flush. ORR i guess that would mean that the widest beam (8x2) would need to side on a lower separate pole plate or something .. ahhh UNLESSS as per Belfords idea that if i have 500mm from the garage (on a pole plate) then a post and boom then the one piece 6meters out 8x2(with middle post to support) then another post and 500mm then another post.. so i could have 500mm lattice infills to cover from either end.. that way the posts would dictate the height and angle (so 4 posts on the first 7m beam 500mm,3m, 3m, 500mm and the same at opposite end .. then perhaps use the 2 6x2 3.6m lengths for the middle supports like in your diagram also ..  
boy theres soo many ways to do it with the timber i already have .. its just a matter of which utilises the word best isnt it? .. i was staring at your first diagram on the train this afternoon and throwing some of belfords ideas with those extra posts (which i would obtain from the existing carport (theres a few straight and still good posts i can use) ..  
im sure you have replied already before i can finish this edit :P

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## ringtail

Probably not the best explanation on my part. But basically, the idea is to eliminate any need for a centre post. All you do is replace 3 of the 4 x 2 rafters with 6 x 2 rafters. Check the 6 x 2 rafters out so they sit on the bearers to give the same top height as the 4 x 2 rafters. This should put the bottom of the 6 x 2 rafters 2 inches below the bottom of the 4 x 2 rafters. You then get 2 pieces of 4 x 2, put a notch in both ends of each piece and run them perpendicular to the rafters.So the bits of 4 x 2 screw up into the bottom of the deeper 6 x 2 rafters and the 4 x 2 rafters sit on it.  carport dwg 2 a.pdf

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## gbx78

> Probably not the best explanation on my part. But basically, the idea is to eliminate any need for a centre post. All you do is replace 3 of the 4 x 2 rafters with 6 x 2 rafters. Check the 6 x 2 rafters out so they sit on the bearers to give the same top height as the 4 x 2 rafters. This should put the bottom of the 6 x 2 rafters 2 inches below the bottom of the 4 x 2 rafters. You then get 2 pieces of 4 x 2, put a notch in both ends of each piece and run them perpendicular to the rafters.So the bits of 4 x 2 screw up into the bottom of the deeper 6 x 2 rafters and the 4 x 2 rafters sit on it.  carport dwg 2 a.pdf

  Ahhhhhhhh got ya. Thats a pretty good idea.. Yes then no need for centre post and the 6x2s would support the load of the battens and roof aswell.. Me likes. And the coach screws would b sufficient to attach ??

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## gbx78

> Probably not the best explanation on my part. But basically, the idea is to eliminate any need for a centre post. All you do is replace 3 of the 4 x 2 rafters with 6 x 2 rafters. Check the 6 x 2 rafters out so they sit on the bearers to give the same top height as the 4 x 2 rafters. This should put the bottom of the 6 x 2 rafters 2 inches below the bottom of the 4 x 2 rafters. You then get 2 pieces of 4 x 2, put a notch in both ends of each piece and run them perpendicular to the rafters.So the bits of 4 x 2 screw up into the bottom of the deeper 6 x 2 rafters and the 4 x 2 rafters sit on it.  carport dwg 2 a.pdf

  ok so i can see how that could work well as the middle support without post then in the centre.. but then i think utilising those timbers would leave me short for the beams on each side.. I have 1 x (6x2) 6m. 1 x (8x2) 6m. 4 x (6x2) 3.6m. 12x (4x2) 5.4m rafters.. 6x (90x90) treated pine posts. Battens at 4.8m lengths ( i think are 4x1.5 pine).. then from the existing carport i have a usable 1x (6x2) 5m (approx) piece, 1 x (8x2) 5m approx piece. probably 2 straight 90x90 posts and 1 x 100x100 posts.. the other posts appear bent/bowed.. and cracks down the bottom HOWEVER .. are useable i would think if the problem bits are cut out or even to be dyna bolted to the garage wall as a support instead of the pole plate and the pole plate which looks from memory (not at home at the moment) like slightly bigger and wider than 4x2 but i not a 6x2...  
I like that idea but i think it will leave me short of timber where your original way (but including that middle post)  i would have the right amount of timber.. (i dont mind a middle post as there is one there already. 
but just to clarify.. how would the 7m length beams (however that distance is achieved) .. be attached to posts if the 6x2 in this new idea would need to come out and sit somewhere on a post. if that makes at all sense. ( i wish i could draw something ).. and if the rafters are sitting on top i would assume that the new idea design would have to be the same at either end not just the middle in order for it to all sit right?

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## gbx78

i mean of course also, i dont want you to spend too much time on my project/issues.. otherwise i could talk for days and not actually start with anything.. if its just as simple to do the original drawing design but with a middle post then that is fine.. as long as you think its all do-able then that gives me the confidence to do it.. :Biggrin:  .. at the end of the day i hope it looks alright and doesnt fall on my poor puppy hehehe 
i can disguise extra posts or supports or whatever with fruit vines or plants etc.. or lattices if required which would all server as privacy anyway..

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## Bedford

Ringtail, looking at your new plan, where you have the orange east/west 4x2s, is there any reason why more of these couldn't be added, at a spacing that the corri will span?
This would allow the iron to run in the correct direction, and save having to put joists and battens (plus their weight) on top. :Smilie:

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## ringtail

You would probably have to buy more timber which is a bugger. The timber that you want to use as your bearers ( 6 x 2, 8 x 2 ) sit in a check out in the post and the deeper rafters ( checked out to be the same height as the rest) sit on top of the bearers , just like all the other rafters. No need for them to be connected to the posts in any way, but if their location was as close to the posts as possible that would not hurt. 
Hardware wise, the coach screws would be the minimum fixing, and probably put a metal joist strap on aswell. They are a piece of strap that is twisted to give two different nailing faces, and you would strap all of the rafters to the under purlin.  
Dont fell obligated to do it my way, these are only different ideas to give the same result but without that middle post. Whichever way you choose to do it, suiting your budget/skills/materials the only thing that matters is the end result. If you are happy, and have learnt something, its all good.

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## gbx78

> Ringtail, looking at your new plan, where you have the orange east/west 4x2s, is there any reason why more of these couldn't be added, at a spacing that the corri will span?
> This would allow the iron to run in the correct direction, and save having to put joists and battens (plus their weight) on top.

  excuse my ignorance on termanology.. does joists = rafters? ..  
I like the sounds of that bedford (im sorry i mispelt your username i think in my previous reply) .. but i was under the impression that i needed battens .. otherwise it would make this whole thing easier if i just put my rafters running perpandicular to the direction of the roofing with no battens and they would only span 3.5m and sit on a 8x2 or 6x2 beam and then repeated again for the next 3.5m which would eliminate a middle post if i brought my 2 posts holding up those beams further in on the 5.4m lengths.. so basically exactly whats there now? just running the tin directly on the top .. ??

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## Bedford

That's sort of what I'm aiming at, but I need someone better than me to describe it with the correct sizes. It would be good if you could list all the timber you have in one post so as to be easier to work out what you actually have to work with. :Smilie:

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## gbx78

> That's sort of what I'm aiming at, but I need someone better than me to describe it with the correct sizes. It would be good if you could list all the timber you have in one post so as to be easier to work out what you actually have to work with.

  I did say i was going to do that didnt i but i kinda strayed from it. Ok take 2!! when i get home tonight,  i will list all the new timber etc.that i have had delivered. then ill list the useable used timber from the existing. I might take a pic even of the area and old carport etc.. and post it .. that might help also huh? hehehe 
thanks again to both of you  :Biggrin:  ..

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## ringtail

G'day Bedford. The new 4 x 2 's are under purlins and go underneath the rafters. The under purlins are supported by the deeper rafters at the perimeter and in the centre. There is no reason why more could not be added. They could go at 1350/2700/4050 to break the roof into 4 bays. Means more timber obviously. 
gbx78, yes joists = rafters in this case and yes you still need battens. Strongly advise to go metal top hat battens. Dead easy to join, cheap enough and weigh bugger all. They might add .25 kg/square mt. if that.

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## gbx78

OOOKKKKKK here we go. 
New timber i have delivered (a few weeks ago now): 
6 x 90x90 (2.4m) treated pine posts
12 x 4x2"  (5.4m) oregon (suppose to be rafters)
13 x 3.75x1.5" (4.8m) pine (suppose to be battens)
1 x 8x2" (6m) Oregon (beam)
1 x 6x2" (6m) Oregon (beam)
4 x 6x2" (3.6m) oregon (beam) 
( i have all the galv dynabolts screws etc and stirrups, also i have this roll of steelbelt with holes to nail and hold pieces together) i havent bought the tripple grips yet as im waiting to see how many i need etc after i finishe discussing with you guys. I also have 10 zinc alum 5.4m corrugated style roofing. 
Ok the old carport/cover consists of the following useable: 
3 x 90x90 (2.18m) posts (already checked for 8x2)
3 x 100x100  (2.28m) posts (already checked for 6x2) maybe 20cm from the bottom is split but rest is ok)
1 x 6x3" (2.3m) post - the bottom is in the ground (grass/dirt) and looks weather at the bottom around 10-20cm but rest is ok 
10 x 3x2" (4.8m) rafters - dark reddish timber (maybe hardwood) but weathered/water damaged about 10cm at one end but the rest is good cept a little bowed as there was no support and obviously too small to span that width with that weight with no extra support.
13 x 3x2" (3m) - reddish timber but in good straight condition
1 x 8x2" (5.4m) - middle beam
1 x 6x2" (5.4m) - end beam (fence line beam)
1 x 4x2" (5.4m) - Pole plate against the brick garage wall (level)
3 x 3x1.25" (5.4m) - reddish timber - battens 
Thats all thats useable and not severally split or water damaged. 
Ill get some pics up when its daylight. 
Well thats all the timber i have old and new.. Its alot and surel i can do something with it all  :Biggrin:  
i hope i havent missed anything .. im sure i will have surplus but the idea is to efficiently use the timber with less waste. 
thanks guys appreciate your time .. no rush of course .. i still need to paint all this stuff when it stops raining anyway 
EDIT: the new timber is stamped F7 grade

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## jago

Can you still use Oregon for outside construction in NSW ? 
Ps you guys are starting to rival the emmissons trading thread, for length...lol  :2thumbsup:

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## gbx78

> Can you still use Oregon for outside construction in NSW ? 
> Ps you guys are starting to rival the emmissons trading thread, for length...lol

  that im not sure.. thats what the timber yard gave me when i said i was doing a carport/covered area.. if its wrong then i will call them and tell them. Im pretty sure they said it was oregon but according to this site you can use it cept it has to be F8 or better which i have F7 sooo : / i mite be in trouble there hmmmm  Langs Building Supplies, Hardware Suppliers in Brisbane, South East QLD hardware Suppliers 
and yes i was just thinking how long this thread is  :Biggrin:  
EDIT: i just realised that website is QLD hehe

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## Bedford

GBX, I've done a drawing that I think you could use and I've checked the span tables and couldn't find anything that says it can't be done in this situation. (certainly open to correction.) :Smilie:  
It seems much simpler and uses much of the timber you already have, but would mean you may be able to return the joists and battens and exchange for some 6x2x3.6, you have 4 but you would need 12 all up. The intermediate 6x2s could be attached with these.  Pryda New Zealand - Page Unavailable It says unavailable, but works here. :Confused:  
It still may need the post in the middle, not sure about that one. 
Hopefully Ringtail and others can verify if this would work. :Smilie:

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## gbx78

> GBX, I've done a drawing that I think you could use and I've checked the span tables and couldn't find anything that says it can't be done in this situation. (certainly open to correction.) 
> It seems much simpler and uses much of the timber you already have, but would mean you may be able to return the joists and battens and exchange for some 6x2x3.6, you have 4 but you would need 12 all up. The intermediate 6x2s could be attached with these.  Pryda New Zealand - Page Unavailable It says unavailable, but works here. 
> It still may need the post in the middle, not sure about that one. 
> Hopefully Ringtail and others can verify if this would work.

  Hi Bedford, thanks for that. I havent spoken to the timber yard but hopefully they will return or exchange  :Frown:  .. and if oregon is no good and they will exchange perhaps something more appropriate .. but like what? treated pine? or something?

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## gbx78

> GBX, I've done a drawing that I think you could use and I've checked the span tables and couldn't find anything that says it can't be done in this situation. (certainly open to correction.) 
> It seems much simpler and uses much of the timber you already have, but would mean you may be able to return the joists and battens and exchange for some 6x2x3.6, you have 4 but you would need 12 all up. The intermediate 6x2s could be attached with these.  Pryda New Zealand - Page Unavailable It says unavailable, but works here. 
> It still may need the post in the middle, not sure about that one. 
> Hopefully Ringtail and others can verify if this would work.

  Hi Bedford, thanks for that. I havent spoken to the timber yard but hopefully they will return or exchange  :Frown:  .. and if oregon is no good and they will exchange perhaps something more appropriate .. but like what? treated pine? or something?

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## gbx78

Heres some pics.. and excuse the washing and my puppy with a bucket on her head she just had an operation

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## jago

> that im not sure.. thats what the timber yard gave me when i said i was doing a carport/covered area.. if its wrong then i will call them and tell them. Im pretty sure they said it was oregon but according to this site you can use it cept it has to be F8 or better which i have F7 sooo : / i mite be in trouble there hmmmm  Langs Building Supplies, Hardware Suppliers in Brisbane, South East QLD hardware Suppliers 
> and yes i was just thinking how long this thread is  
> EDIT: i just realised that website is QLD hehe

  With regard to the Oregon call your local council ask for the surveyor and ask them if Oregon is okay  for outside/carport use...just dont give them your name or address. 
The reason I originally asked about Oregon outside is the Mid North Coast NSW areas mosty councils won't allow it, termite catnip plus does'nt stand up to the weather! 
Good luck  :2thumbsup:

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## gbx78

yeah good point jago  
ok guys, so lets say i get a chance to exchange some of this stuff (yet to talk to timber yard) .. i assume my posts are all good (treatd pine and standard).. what should i be exchanging and for what sizes and what timber? and then ill call em over tday or tomorrow and see if they accept it being its been a few weeks already .. funny feeling they wont but i can try.. but before i do i want to make sure i get the correct stuff so i dont end up with wrong timber again

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## gbx78

just found this for using Oregon externally: 
Domestic 
The strength and beauty of natural Oregon beams enhance the warmth and visual appeal of any home, whether is be used extensively in a post and beam construction or utilised simply in a pergola. 
Its high strength to weight ratio makes the timber easily employed in the construction of concealed house framing, roof beams and rafters or fascia. 
Oregon should not be used in some external structural applications such as bearers and joists under weather exposed decks.  However, by following a few simple guidelines the timber will continue to excel - even outdoors. 
External Use 
The Oregon used should be free of heart centre (FOHC).  Heart centre describes the very centre of the tree in a piece of timber, also known as pith.  Because this area is the most unstable part of the tree, the use of free of heart centre Oregon in all external applications reduces the occurrence of movement defects such as splitting or twist. 
Protection 
As with any timber included in construction outdoors, the life of Oregon will be greatly prolonged when a suitable oil-based paint or timber preservative is applied to and maintained on all surfaces.  Ensure during construction that all end sections are sealed before fixing and incisions made for hardware are protected. 
Rot 
Rot occurs when the moisture content of the timber is raised unnaturally high for an extended period.  To protect Oregon from rot, simply have a roof (30 degrees vertical overhang) covering your pergola or carport so as water cannot pool on the surface of the timber.  Posts should be supported clear of the ground in stirrups (50mm or higher). 
If these simple steps are taken from the onset of construction, there is no reason why you will not enjoy the beauty of the Oregon for years to come.

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## ringtail

getting any closer to a solution ? Does your hound walk into things with the bucket head ? Mine did, quiet funny but sad at the same time eh.

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## gbx78

> getting any closer to a solution ? Does your hound walk into things with the bucket head ? Mine did, quiet funny but sad at the same time eh.

  yes im constantly hearing "bang!" she keeps running into things poor thing..  
solution? ummm well i have the few options between you and belford.. i think it can be done with what ive got .. but i wanted your opinion again based on the timber i listed that i have (i think we all are waiting for you hehe) . ..is using the oregon a problem? Ive got solargard to paint it all with (was recommended to protect from water and weathering) .... but ive only painted the posts cause i diddnt want to touch the oregon if i cant use it... but i thought u may hav a different idea now that i listed exactly what i got.. id hate to do something and then someone go "ohhhhh if i knew you had those pieces then .. " heheh 
but if you recon the previous ideas are acceptable and would work fine .. then im happy with that... i value all your suggestions and opinions.. which is why im not doing anything until you guys say "do it"! hehe

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## ringtail

I have zero experience with oregon. I come across it from time to time, internal and external and it seems to hold up ok if painted. But thats all I can say about it. I certainly cant recommend it because Ive never used it.( not saying its a bad product though) I'm a hardwood snob though. I'll have a closer look at your timber list , but I reckon you should be able to cobble something together with that lot.

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## gbx78

> I have zero experience with oregon. I come across it from time to time, internal and external and it seems to hold up ok if painted. But thats all I can say about it. I certainly cant recommend it because Ive never used it.( not saying its a bad product though) I'm a hardwood snob though. I'll have a closer look at your timber list , but I reckon you should be able to cobble something together with that lot.

  Hey ringtail.. Thanks for that. It wont stop raining otherwise i reckon itd be up nw!! I reckon ur original plan with some of bedfords ideas for long spans and then perhaps ur second idea of supports to cover the rafter spans with some of the used timber with some of those joist brackets at either end ans i can just move the posts in so thered be overhang and less span in between. 
I read that timber in the stirrups should sit 4mm from the bottom is that true i wulda thought it would be stronger to sit at the base?? And coach screws ok? I saw pics where nuts and bolts right thru. Its just those Y shape stirrups the bolt to the concrete. And is it advisable to face them all in different directions for added support and so they wouldnt all favor one direction if that makes sense

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## ringtail

Send the rain up here. There seems to be a big piece of gladwrap over Brissy at the moment. Heaps of rain to the north and south but zip in the city. 
Regarding the stirrups, I always sit my posts on top of a decking board ( 19 mm ) when using a full high wind type stirrup that is embedded in the concrete. 1 x M 12 bolt in the bottom hole, check the post for plumb, then 2nd M12 gal bolt, knock out the decking board leaving a nice air gap. I do it so the bloody black ants dont take up nest in the bottom of the post, or if they try you can spray the bottom of the post completely and kill em. Sitting the posts on the base is sort of asking for it. If the stirrups hold water, which the bolt on type are prone to do, the bottom of the post rots and gets eaten by ants and the stirrup rusts. New timber shrinks a bit anyway ( specially HWD ) so it no longer sits on the bottom. The 2 x M12 bolts would only shear with about 15 tonnes of point load weight on them ( not exagerating)  
You should have a few stirrups at 90 degrees to the others to counter racking forces, how effective this is with bolt ons, not sure, but common practice with embedded stirrups. Although it seems to be at the discretion of the builder.  
With any metal connector make sure you use the proper engineered gal nails. Pryda do them in little boxes but there are a few different brands.

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## gbx78

> Send the rain up here. There seems to be a big piece of gladwrap over Brissy at the moment. Heaps of rain to the north and south but zip in the city. 
> Regarding the stirrups, I always sit my posts on top of a decking board ( 19 mm ) when using a full high wind type stirrup that is embedded in the concrete. 1 x M 12 bolt in the bottom hole, check the post for plumb, then 2nd M12 gal bolt, knock out the decking board leaving a nice air gap. I do it so the bloody black ants dont take up nest in the bottom of the post, or if they try you can spray the bottom of the post completely and kill em. Sitting the posts on the base is sort of asking for it. If the stirrups hold water, which the bolt on type are prone to do, the bottom of the post rots and gets eaten by ants and the stirrup rusts. New timber shrinks a bit anyway ( specially HWD ) so it no longer sits on the bottom. The 2 x M12 bolts would only shear with about 15 tonnes of point load weight on them ( not exagerating)  
> You should have a few stirrups at 90 degrees to the others to counter racking forces, how effective this is with bolt ons, not sure, but common practice with embedded stirrups. Although it seems to be at the discretion of the builder.  
> With any metal connector make sure you use the proper engineered gal nails. Pryda do them in little boxes but there are a few different brands.

  hi ringtail.. wow we are up to page 4!!! haha.. ok cool. thanks for that idea bout puting 19mm spacer etc then knocking it out after..  
how on earth do you drill straight through correctly to line up the holes of the strirrup .  
It was sunny tday so i started to paint yayayyy!!! then not after 20mins.. the clouds come over .. and lots of cursing!!. 
Ok i think i have a clear idea of whats required using the timber i have. basically its to not let too bigger span on most without some sort of support.. direct the stirrups at 90deg to others etc.. bolts through the stirrups NOT coach screws and leave approx a 19mm gap... i can use already checked out posts for 6x2's and 8x2's in certain places so that saves some time. I can use 4x2's or similar used timber i have from the old carport for supports across the 5.4m rafter/joist span with joist hanger brackers (U shaped ones)(which will prob be less span anyway as ill move the posts in a bit which id have to do anyway cause the concrete starts to slope right on the 5.4 meter mark and need a flat surface).. i make the posts and pole plate the highest then the middle post (if i have one) and/or pole plate will then slope down maybe 50mm and then the end posts and pole plate will be at the 100mm slope (from the original height). Thats as much as i can slope as theres a window at that height on the garage wall. Then ill use either 2 x 3.5m 6x2s or the 6m 6x2 .. at one end or the middle with that extra post like bedford suggested which i can then use lattice as a feature privacy type section... and 8x2 6m length at the other in a similar scenario... like we discussed originally...  
then the battens go on.. then the roofing.. then perhaps some angled supports to keep it all square and from leaning .. perhaps using some timber from the old carport and cut some bevels to join from post to beam in a few corners..  
have i missed anything?... do you put silicon at all in between the overlaps of the roofing?or its not necessary??  
ummm i think best not to over complicate things being weather is an issue.. and just box it up already and slap the roofing on !! ..  
do i hear a yay or nay :/

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## ringtail

Sounds like you are all over it. Good stuff. You could get away with a lot less than 19 mm spacer if you wanted to. A couple of bits of fibro will give you around 10 mm which is heaps if you are using pine posts. The trick with drilling the holes for the bolts is to drill half way then drill from the other side to meet the first hole. If you try and drill a 13 mm hole right through you will no doubt miss (I do) or even worse is when you get half a hole which jambs the drill, breaks your wrists and the drill bit. Good times, not. 
Re the non level concrete -  You can chemset studs into the concrete and use nuts and washers underneath the stirrup to plumb it up, then lock it down with nuts and washers on top, then fill the gap between concrete and stirrup with mortar if you want. Getting a bit techo though. 
Running a bead of silicone ( roofing type) on the laps is not a bad idea. Ive had roofs with pitches over 12 degrees leak before. The water wicks back up the lap or through a dodgy rubber washer under the roofing screw. Bugger to find sometimes, so silicone cant hurt. 
You could ( should) run strapping or speed brace in a diagonal pattern across the roof rafters to counter act wind load racking. 
The more bracing the better, but its only a carport. Try to keep everything in proportion and looking like its meant to be there. A solid bracing screen ( not lattice) between some of the external posts can then have things grown on them to conceal or make a feature of it. I reckon it would be adequately braced perpendicular to the brick wall ( because of the brick wall) , so maybe just one good screen on the outside posts that runs parallel to the brick wall would do it ( along with the roof strapping), or do a corner just to make sure.

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## gbx78

> Sounds like you are all over it. Good stuff. You could get away with a lot less than 19 mm spacer if you wanted to. A couple of bits of fibro will give you around 10 mm which is heaps if you are using pine posts. The trick with drilling the holes for the bolts is to drill half way then drill from the other side to meet the first hole. If you try and drill a 13 mm hole right through you will no doubt miss (I do) or even worse is when you get half a hole which jambs the drill, breaks your wrists and the drill bit. Good times, not. 
> Re the non level concrete - You can chemset studs into the concrete and use nuts and washers underneath the stirrup to plumb it up, then lock it down with nuts and washers on top, then fill the gap between concrete and stirrup with mortar if you want. Getting a bit techo though. 
> Running a bead of silicone ( roofing type) on the laps is not a bad idea. Ive had roofs with pitches over 12 degrees leak before. The water wicks back up the lap or through a dodgy rubber washer under the roofing screw. Bugger to find sometimes, so silicone cant hurt. 
> You could ( should) run strapping or speed brace in a diagonal pattern across the roof rafters to counter act wind load racking. 
> The more bracing the better, but its only a carport. Try to keep everything in proportion and looking like its meant to be there. A solid bracing screen ( not lattice) between some of the external posts can then have things grown on them to conceal or make a feature of it. I reckon it would be adequately braced perpendicular to the brick wall ( because of the brick wall) , so maybe just one good screen on the outside posts that runs parallel to the brick wall would do it ( along with the roof strapping), or do a corner just to make sure.

  Hi ringtail .. thanks for that .. ill look into that speed brace or strapping like you mentioned across the rafters.. i assume thats installed on the top of the rafters and then the battens go ontop of that. I also assume theres no correct side to face to the sun , the zinc alum roofing? ie.. i assume both sides are the same. 
thanks again to all who contributed to this thread.. i feel more knowledgable now about the basics and what i need to do. i look foward to starting once the damm rain stops.. but wouldnt you know during the week is fine when im at work!! but come the weekend and it rains!

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## r3nov8or

Re your zincalum sheets, see the Installation page here http://www.lysaght.com/files/dmfile/...b14Dec2009.pdf, especially the details re prevailing weather & direction of laying, and how to lap the sheets to help ensure no leaks

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## gbx78

> See the Installation page here http://www.lysaght.com/files/dmfile/...b14Dec2009.pdf, especially the details re prevailing whether & direction of laying, and how to lap the sheets to help ensure no leaks

  Hi r3nov8or! .. perfect!!! thanks for that link .. it shows and explains it well.. i appreciate you taking the time to find it and send it..  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Yup, the strapping goes on top of the rafters and underneath the battens, although I have talked to an engineer about this and he said it makes no real difference to the performance when using timber battens. Big no no to put it on top of metal battens though. 
Re the roof tin, its been a little while but I think one side has writing from the manufacturer on it. r3nov8or is on it with the lysaght link.

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## gbx78

> Yup, the strapping goes on top of the rafters and underneath the battens, although I have talked to an engineer about this and he said it makes no real difference to the performance when using timber battens. Big no no to put it on top of metal battens though. 
> Re the roof tin, its been a little while but I think one side has writing from the manufacturer on it. r3nov8or is on it with the lysaght link.

  Cool thanks. yeah the roof tin has bluescope zinc alum printed on one side.. i assume it doesnt matter.. i had a read of the site that r3nov8or posted and couldnt see anywhere that it specifically mentioned.. but very informative stuff about turning up the high ends and turning down the low ends on pitch angles like mine to stop wind blowing water upstream and underneath as well .. there was a little video on it in the installation section. was a great help. gee ive learnt soooo much from what i thought was an easy tack it all together type job but its the smaller details that make the biggest differences. ive enjoyed the learning curve with all of your help. 
Its funny though all my information and unabliged help has come from 1000km north and south of me  :Biggrin:   
Guys i really appreciate the help and flood on information  :Biggrin:  
EDIT: i noticed a smell of "oil" of somesort from the tin roofing.. is this normal , i wonder if its on there to protect from the water or maybe from the ends rusting? i noticed some scratches on the surfaces prob due to me moving them .. so i wonder if these could do with a touch up or perhaps a coat of oil to protect to stop from rusting?

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## Bedford

> EDIT: i noticed a smell of "oil" of somesort from the tin roofing.. is this normal , i wonder if its on there to protect from the water or maybe from the ends rusting? i noticed some scratches on the surfaces prob due to me moving them .. so i wonder if these could do with a touch up or perhaps a coat of oil to protect to stop from rusting?

  I've noticed this a few times and I think it's just a bit of lubricant from when they roll the sheets to shape. It usually washes off or dries and is not a problem. 
Small scratches happen sometimes in handling them, but wouldn't worry unless it's right through the zinc coating (unlikely).  :Smilie:

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## gbx78

> I've noticed this a few times and I think it's just a bit of lubricant from when they roll the sheets to shape. It usually washes off or dries and is not a problem. 
> Small scratches happen sometimes in handling them, but wouldn't worry unless it's right through the zinc coating (unlikely).

  Hi bedford, ahhh that makes sense. i wasnt worried about it more just curious as to why it was there. 
Coolio thanks for that.. when this thing finally gets done .. ill be sure to put up pics ONLY IF it doesnt look half bad  :Biggrin:

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## gbx78

Hi all  
Considering all the effort and doubt "oregon" has put in my mind.. i wont be happy. Even if its painted.. Ive spoken to the timber yard and i can exchange any unpainted timber (great so only 2 beams :/.. i got paint happy when i got the timber lol) ..i can exchange it for treated pine and larger sizes if i require (they dont have hardwood).. which will take alot of the headache out  :Biggrin:  .. i can get correct lengths depending which way i want to go based on all your efforts and diagrams. 
after the exachnge its only about 400 out of pocket .. but piece of mind with treated stuff.  
the only thing now is i have painted 12 4x2 5.4 rafters and 4 6x2 3.6m beams in solarguard (3/4's thru ) .. so i cant return them ... any suggestions for uses in the home i could do? or shall i just ebay em off or perhaps advertise on the forum? i was thinking shelves for teh 6x2's but the 12 4x2 5.4ms i am stumped :/ 
EDIT: my uncle reckons i could get away with 8x2 (3.6m) beams (x2) to make the 7meter length on each side but he said it would be better to go 250xsomething instead.. i was thinking also about your suggestions (too many to remember hehehe) that maybe 6x2 rafters would be better and eliminate that middle post (in between the 5.4m length). even tho the 4x2 rafters are much cheaper but then i would need that middle post which is no biggy (timber guy reckons with middle support my span is halfed so 4x2's would be fine)

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## gbx78

Hi guys 
not sure if anyone is still subscribed to this extremely lengthy thread hehehehe 
but i forgot to add a pic to show you the progress.. its all done now but i havent got a pic of it completed but you get the idea.. was teh first time i have done anything like this on my own so i know its not perfect and had some dramas here and there but its done now and its still standing (after 3months) .. i still need to put a brace piece on the far left of the pic up the top.. if your wondering why i have braces at the floor it was because the posts tended to lean in quite a bit for probably due to the ground being uneven and the beam pulling it in aswell) so it was easy to just brace it to the floor to keep the post where it should so i can put the rafters up on top and fix them in place correctly without trying to keep the post from being out of wack and in turn keeping the beams straight. i just havent got around to putting them up the top.. I have bracing up the top in the middle. 
Anyway .. i appreciate alll your help .. i did bit the bullet and returned some of the timber ( i couldnt return all as it was already painted) and got all treated pine and the correct sizes too, 
I COULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT ALL OF YOUR IDEAS AND HELP AND ADVICE..  
Im going to start a new thread as you can see in the pic to the far left is open i want to put a small pergola come from the back door of the house (theres no cover there) and let it over lap on the carport on the far left of the pic .. basically only half of the entire carports length .. so from end post to middle post. I want to avoid putting another 2 post and beam if i can help it and wanted to ask if the carport thats there now would be strong enough to support 6x2 rafters coming from the house and somehow sitting ontop of the roofing as an over lap but i have no idea how to fix it in place.. the angle would be alot steeper than the carport so i dont think i could put the rafters on the existing beam unless i cut sections in the tin roof and the battens to allow the rafters to angle up more (the house is much higher than the carport).. actually thats an idea?? i only intend on using laserlight .. as its light in weight and lets the light thru and the area is very high so im not worried about heat underneath.. 
any suggestions before i start a new thread?   
EDIT: Great thanks goes to my MUM for helping me, passing me tools, food and putting up with my grumpiness when things werent working the way they should!! she kept me calm but at the same time was my verbal punching bag.. couldnt have been done without her and also in the rain!!! ..

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## ringtail

Arrrrrrrrrgh - you again - lol.  Looks good mate. Another pic with less shadow would be tops.

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## gbx78

> Arrrrrrrrrgh - you again - lol. Looks good mate. Another pic with less shadow would be tops.

  yes yes i know  :Biggrin: , i thought i owed it to the guys who helped me out to show you a pic.. ill try get another pic with less shadow. Its not perfect and its just a basic design but it has done the job and ive learnt alot out of it.

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## jago

Its not a DIY project unless you get wet ...starting to take shape.

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## gbx78

> Its not a DIY project unless you get wet ...starting to take shape.

  so help me god i wanted that thing finished .. rain hail or shine!!! .. i ended up buying a cordless drill just to be able to go out there with and drill even if it was wet..  
I did learn that dynabolts arent always very friendly and sometimes decide they want to come out and dont tighten. After drilling another hole and the same thing happened i was stuck and it was wet and i was pissed off!!! (i think my masonary bit was warped and drilling a bigger hole than necessary) a trip to bunnings and luckily talking to the right person i found out theres an adhesive for this kind of thing that dries rock hard and gives the dynabolt shell something to grip on and it wont move at all !! boy does it work really really well . i cant remember the name .. but i started to use it on all future dynabolts as a safety measure to make sure when i tighten it tightens!!

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