# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  Starting a carpentry (building) apprenticeship at age 27? [Victoria]

## YoungBolt

Hi! 
Hoping for some input and advice on a big career plan I'm considering doing.  
I'm seriously considering starting a apprenticeship in carpentry with the view to be a builder. Always been interested in building stuff even as a kid, but for whatever reason I thought that I would be happier and better off financially pursing a career that involved university study. Now that I've completed a degree and been working as a pharmaceutical sales rep for 5+ years, I realise I dont enjoy the work, the pay isn't what I thought it would be and I can't imagine working for anouther 3 years in the sales industry, let alone 30 years. I did labouring when I was younger and I'm doing stuff around my house that I absolutely love doing.  
I'm 27 years old and based in outer Melbourne suburbs.   
So I've got 2 main areas I'd really need help with if I was to go down the apprentice path
1) What is the proces to start an mature aged carpentry / building apprenticeship ? Do I need a pre apprenticeship course? Do I need to register with a body of some sort or just find someone willing to take me on?  
2) what's a reasonable pay to expect as a mature aged apprentice? $500/week in hand? 
Anyone here work in the industry and met/work with mature aged apprentices?   
I'll need to obviously make some lifestyle choices as I'll be getting much less as an apprentice than I'm currently earning ($75k a year) but trying to realistically work out how much I can bank on. 
I need around $2k/month to stay alive and in my own house with an interest only mortgage and basic living standards. 
Any advice here would be much appreciated !!

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## ringtail

I did a mature aged apprenticeship at 36(I think) and had no drama. In fact, I had builders lining up to put me on because of my transferable skills ( motor mechanic and welder and two major rennos) I also had more tools than most builders and a fully kitted out van. I just put an add in the Weekend paper and the phone didn't stop. Money wise, I'm not sure what the law is now but back then it was minimum wage which was $500 in the hand. Since you have no prior experience doing the prevo course ( if it still exisits ) would be good. You have to make someone want you. They don't need you. Plenty of neck tatted rrsewipes out there that will cost them less. What they need is someone who isn't on their phone every 5 minutes, doesn't chase skirt every night, doesn't turn up pissed, wants to learn and wants to work hard. Finding that someone is the hard part.

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## jimfish

Currently adult rates for carpentry apprenticeship is $21.03 per hr plus travel of between $13 and $15 ish per day. Same deal with me as Ringtail except I was 32. The tough thing in my opinion is finding someone willing to take you on over a kid that starts of on just over 1/2 of what you would cost. Being a chippy / builder is no license to print money though there is good money in it for those who are prepared  to work long and hard. I suggest if building is what you really want to do go for it , but if you want to do it because you think it's an easy way to make more money then it's probably not the right career path. 
Good luck

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## ringtail

Yep, second that. Plenty of easier ways to make a lot more money than the building game. A hobby that becomes a job can quickly turn into a chore

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## mudbrick

At 27 and with a qualification behind you you might as well have a crack at building if you think it's what you really want to do.
if you realise you hate it after 6 months you can always go back to a pharmacy.

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## phild01

I'd look for short week work and enjoy the extra time renovating a run down property with someone,  do major work on your own property or sell what you have and owner build a new house.
....probably not much joy if you have another to consider!

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## OBBob

> I'd look for short week work and enjoy the extra time renovating a run down property with someone,  do major work on your own property or sell what you have and owner build a new house.
> ....probably not much joy if you have another to consider!

  Ha ha, yeah go owner builder as a trial.   :Biggrin:   
I think it's great to pursue your dreams, just make sure you aren't romanticising it. Any possibility of changes in circumstances in the next 5-10 years (kids etc.)? Also, a rep. largely alone on the road all day vs being on a small building site with a set group of people will be quite different. Pharmaceuticals is only likely to grow, consider how the building industry looks in your location in case it means you may need to  move around a little to follow work. Often building is six days a week instead of the five you may be accustomed to.  
That said, Ringtail was a mechanic and swapped over, METRIX was in IT and Marc... well he's probably been a pharmacist and a builder, ha ha. They made it and probably wouldn't go back.

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## ringtail

Dunno about that Bob. While I would never go back to full time mechanics I still do plenty back at my old workshop and enjoy it quite a bit. Probably because I know I don't have to do it but want to do it. Mainly because one can't trust anyone to anything these days because the world is full of incompetents. As far as the building industry goes, meh, I can take it or leave it. It means nothing to me other than fulfilling some overpaid idiots warped idea of perfection. Just makes me angry more than anything. I get actual enjoyment out of making things from scratch. Whether it's timber, steel, a combo. Farming equipment, tables, chairs, bowls, bush furniture etc...whatever. I'm currently making high end native beehives and loving it.

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## OBBob

Pretty sure you hated it and it could burn in h3ll (or words to that effect)... but it may have been right after you blew up the motor in your 4WD...   :Tongue:  .

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## sol381

So you did your apprenticeship at 36.. so you've only been a chippie for what 2-3 years now. :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Yep, and ready to retire  :Biggrin:  . My youthful good looks mask my age  :Tongue:

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## ringtail

> Pretty sure you hated it and it could burn in h3ll (or words to that effect)... but it may have been right after you blew up the motor in your 4WD...   .

  My mistake was staying in the industry too long due to fear. 10 years was enough but it took just under 15 to bite the bullet. Still, I'll never regret doing that as my first trade. Invaluable. I got really lucky though. The place where I worked was so much more than just fixing cars.

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## sol381

Yeah ill retire with you.. I just recently put through an apprentice aged 55 and currently have another aged 44.. Rather have older guys willing to work than some snotty 18yo who may have been forced into it. Im sure there are many builders there looking for someone like you..Just do it for the right reasons like the guys have said.

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## Bros

> Yeah ill retire with you.. I just recently put through an apprentice aged 55

  Gee I thought at that age builders are at the point of hanging up the nail bag.

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## sol381

i know i am..3 or 4 more years will do me....he was keen to be a chippie while i had him.. on his own now.

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## Micky013

Mate, just did what you  r talking about and at the same age as well. Came from an accounting background and the pay change wasn't much. With a bit of OT every week and travel you can bank $800 per week with ease. I'm now qualified after 3 1/2 years and it's great.   
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## ringtail

Give it a few hard years fellas and you'll be craving that desk job again  :Biggrin:

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## jimfish

I still enjoy building, but the body certainly aches more at the end of the day

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## Micky013

> Give it a few hard years fellas and you'll be craving that desk job again

  Highly doubt that mate. Would rather frame in the rain than sit behind a computer again.   
=============================

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## OBBob

> I still enjoy building, but the body certainly aches more at the end of the day

  Happens in a*n* office too...   :Biggrin:

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## jimfish

> Happens in a*n* office too...

  Spent today building walls on a 250 sq m house out of 90x38 Tas oak studs and plates. Man they were heavy. Just having a few montieths pain killers ATM.

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## OBBob

> Spent today building walls on a 250 sq m house out of 90x38 Tas oak studs and plates. Man they were heavy. Just having a few montieths pain killers ATM.

  I don't doubt it. I often wonder if the sedentary office environment or the over exertive construction workplace is the more unhealthy. Perhaps you need more apprentices (not the fifty year old variety).

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## jimfish

I quite enjoy the physical work,I keeps me fitish and healthyish. I think if I worked behind a desk my weight would balloon

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## Bros

> I quite enjoy the physical work,I keeps me fitish and healthyish. I think if I worked behind a desk my weight would balloon

   I believe the biggest health problem is long term sun exposure. That wouldn't be a problem in Tas.

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## Micky013

> I don't doubt it. I often wonder if the sedentary office environment or the over exertive construction workplace is the more unhealthy. Perhaps you need more apprentices (not the fifty year old variety).

  They say the office takes 10 years off your life expectancy don't they? I know in 3 years I had been prescribed glasses from staring at two monitors all day and had turned to jelly (from being somewhat fit as floor sander/layer).   
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## OBBob

> They say the office takes 10 years off your life expectancy don't they? I know in 3 years I had been prescribed glasses from staring at two monitors all day and had turned to jelly (from being somewhat fit as floor sander/layer).     ===================================

  Yeah, probably depends on the role... could be 20 years.   :Biggrin:

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## YoungBolt

Great advice and discussion fellas!!
Really appreciate it  :Smilie:   :Smilie:  
I love this forum!  
For the money side of it, I'm not chasing massive dollars that require me to spend all my time to bring in and only be a bank for the family. My parents, bless em, worked 12-14 hour days to make it and I love them for it but it didn't do great for their relationship (now defunct) and I had to raise myself somewhat as well as having very little memories together. 
I believe I'm a smart guy who has confidence, tenacity and a good small business mind so I'm hopeing that I maybe use my trade to run a business as a small building company or doing extensions. Happy to work on site for a few years but longer term plan would be either building supervisor or running my own business. 
moneywise if I could make circa 80-100k in Melbourne when I'm qualified and not have to do 14 hour days 7 days a week I'd be happy. 
Its a strange thought to make such a big change, always had the perception that the money and good jobs were from jobs you get when you go to uni. However years in it feels anything but. While I'm a good sales rep, I don't lead the charts in blitzing my targets and nor do I care. It's just numbers on a spreadsheet delivering dollars for shareholders. Meh. Little real tangible reward and lots of red tape, company culture politics and bureaucracy. I've always been a hands on person but never thought much of it. Going to a private school meant i was always encouraged and the culture basically told you that smart people go to uni and those that aren't  do retail or trades. Howeverlifebhas taught me otherwise - I've met plenty smart tradies who are making a killing running successful businesses.  
Im pretty burnt out by the sales/business industry and the idea of being able to put together something of my own hands Is really attractive. Right now I sit here on my deck that is almost complete (50% of boards laid) loving that I could do this. Building things out of raw materials and knowing how to use them to both regulations and in relation to their characteristics is also fascinating. 
so yeah all sounding good in my head lol 
im aware that it'll be a very different and physical environment that's far less comfortable than a 1yo car, sitting at a deckand wearing slacks + shirt but I dunno office work is boring, restrictive and I miss moving around like I did when I laboured during uni for extra cash. 
With regards to the process of getting qualified and a job - would I need a pre appprectivesgip course and would I need to go to TAFE to be able to become qualified ? Or is on-the-job training with a builder or for a building company be enough? Not so keen on the pre app as it's expensive, takes time and well I know how to use tools and raw materials - I just need a bit of guidance on what the regs and characteristics of various timbers, metals, concrete etc is as well as obviously the experience on how those materials behave over time or when not used rigjt 
woild getting an apprenticeship just be as easy as calling some buidin conpanies and asking ? Clueless on the best way to go about it. 
Contact apprenxrieships australia? Or a training organisation?

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## YoungBolt

> I believe the biggest health problem is long term sun exposure. That wouldn't be a problem in Tas.

  Or if you use sunscreen property and regularly! 
however I know singlet and short pant tans are more alluring than sloppin on sunscreen  
I love tassie but I dunno if I can convince the missus to be able to deal with the cold

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## Micky013

Contact anyone and everyone...builders, carpenters, associations etc - it took me 12 months to find someone who was willing to give me a go.  
No need to do any pre-courses unless you do a certificate in carpentry while you wait for someone to sign you up then once the cert is complete it likely will come off the apprenticeship.    ===================================

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## jimfish

Agree Bros 37 years working in the great outdoors with the use of sunscreen only a relatively new ( last 10 or maybe 15 years) occurrence. I have already had 1 carcinoma removed and have become much more SunSmart since.
Youngbolt, it took me 10 or so years to convince the wife to move to Tassie and although the cooler weather lasts a bit longer than Melb it's not imo significantly colder in winter but so much better than the 40 degree days we used to work in during summer. So far as where to start , in Melb most apprentices are employed by chippies who subcontract to builders, so you could go around housing estates asking if anyone is looking for a mature apprentice. Training wise you will have to complete a cert 3 as well as on the job training

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## ringtail

> Highly doubt that mate. Would rather frame in the rain than sit behind a computer again.   
> =============================

  Like I said, give it a few years. And hope you don't injure yourself. One of the most common injuries I see, including myself, is tennis elbow.

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## sol381

should take up golf then mate. :Biggrin: ..never had a desk job but would be like a prison to me being stuck inside all day sitting on my ass.  Luckily im feeling ok at 50 but i dont want to be on the tools when i wake up with the aches and pains.

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## ringtail

Also, consider becoming a plumber/gasfitter instead. Seriously.

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## OBBob

> Also, consider becoming a plumber/gasfitter instead. Seriously.

  ... or a pharmacist.   :Biggrin:

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## Marc

> Also, consider becoming a plumber/gasfitter instead. Seriously.

  Just as likely to get injured as a plumber. Best trade is electrician. You still need to crawl and climb but it is by far the neatest trade.
Pharmacist? nee, you are a glorified shopkeeper doing a lot of unpaid work for Medicare. if you can become a pharmacist, rather go for Vet or dentist.
Actually I read stats that say dentist have a high rate of suicide. Mm ... who knows. Vet sounds like fun.

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## OBBob

Just did a course with a Vet who was very happy to have recently gotten out. His dream job but in reality it was high pressure, high workload and little time to appreciate the aspects that he enjoyed.

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## Marc

Yes, the grass is greener on the other side ... used to know a doctor who posed as a psychiatrist because he had done a course in psychodrama ... (a bit like saying you are a carpenter because you played with wooden blocks when you were a kid) ... and so he was dishing vocation advice and getting paid for it ... anyway ... he had this "patient" who was an accomplished neurosurgeon who's dream job was ... panelbeating. And with the help of my friend the phoney psychiatrist he left medicine to take up panelbeating.  
Oh the memories!
I remember he also dabbled in preaching and once invited me to one of his "look at me" discourses. He had been invited to a greek church to preach and his subject of choice this time was ... wait for it (in a greek church right?) ... prostitution in marriage ... yea, when the wife uses sex to obtain what she wants from the husband sort of thing. 
I can still remember the church goers who struggled with english twisting their hands and asking questions to each other and interrupting him ... oh my. Professional dementia.  
Anyway ... what was the topic again?   :Smilie:

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## Bros

> Best trade is electrician. You still need to crawl and climb but it is by far the neatest trade.

  I was in a electrical wholesaler a couple of years ago and there was a sign on the counter that said electricians at the age of 35 there would be less than 40% using tools. I spoke to a TAFE teacher I know and he said it would be closer to 30%. Ironic as I left the tools when I was in my late 20's moving to a supervisor role, in my 30's I moved to steam but I still kept my ticket and knowledge of AS3000.  
My son also and electrician moved to steam in his 20's and in his 30's to gas production. 
So no matter what trade you do early in life you can use those skills as a stepping stone to further different employment as I believe having a trade skill is important.   

> Vet sounds like fun.

  Sticking my hand up a cow's bum doesn't appeal to me.

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## Marc

no need to be a vet to do that. Very easy to do and you get used to do it after the first dozen. it's not just the hand by the way, it's your whole arm, need to feel if the cow is pregnant.  
Done that and castrating, branding and nipping the ear, left if female right if male ... or was it the other way around ?
Less than 40% using tools? You mean less than 40% on the tools so working as electricians? 
Moved to steam in your 30ties ... steam? Boilermaker?   :Confused: 
So what's all the fuss about my string of occupations again?  :Rofl5:

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## YoungBolt

Lol Marc maybe put the bottle down before posting haha :P

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## toooldforthis

> I need around $2k/month to stay alive and in my own house with an interest only mortgage and basic living standards. 
>  Any advice here would be much appreciated !!

  
Just be careful there... banks are moving/forcing people off interest only IO loans and onto P&I principal and interest.
Repayments are more substantial. 
Also allow for mortgage interest rate rises.  
Is your current IO locked down for a few years?

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## YoungBolt

I know APRA (bank regulatory body) is pushing banks to offer less IO loans for new home loans and/or those with low LVR. 
Im currently on interest & principal but at my property's current value I have an LVR closer to 70% so I have a good case for an IO loan. Going onto an IO loan would only be so I could do the apprenticeship and save me about $500/montth in repayments. 
 It'd only be for a shor period until I get a second income (marriage) and earn more (4th year apprentice) and any extra money would go into the mortgage anyway.  
And of course I'd do the changes before I change jobs  :Wink:

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## Bros

> Less than 40% using tools? You mean less than 40% on the tools so working as electricians?

  Same thing   

> Moved to steam in your 30ties ... steam? Boilermaker?

  Dont tell anyone so mums the word but operator then superintendent in coal fired power station.   

> So what's all the fuss about my string of occupations again?

  Surely you haven't been a door greeter at Bunnings? I was talking to one at my local Bunnings and he said he was 69 so there is hope for you yet.

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## Marc

Ha ha, I thought about that since I retired from a government job just 2 weeks ago and it feels rather weird after ... mm ... way too many years working full time. 
My daughter used to work at Bunnings and advises me against it. I am very busy as it is anyway. 
Would love to see a power station in action providing it is coal fired one and not "alternative"  :Smilie:

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## Marc

> ... banks are moving/forcing people off interest only IO loans and onto P&I principal and interest.

  True. Had a property on interest only agreed for 15 years and after 9 years they told me they had moved my loan to P&I. The funny part was that I had been paying $2000 a week into it and had just $80k left to pay when they made the big announcement. Didn't even bother ringing up. It's mainly the big banks that do that just because they can.

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## Bros

> Would love to see a power station in action providing it is coal fired one

  I once took an old farmer through one and his eyes were out on stalks. He said I thought there were a few engines in there. I had to explain to him the engines were nearly half a million horsepower each.

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## Marc

Sounds about right. How do you cart the coal in the furnace? Trucks or trains?

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## Bros

> Sounds about right. How do you cart the coal in the furnace? Trucks or trains?

  One power station was by train the other was mine mouth station and it was by conveyor belt

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## YoungBolt

Is the extensive time and money a pre apprenticeship requires worth it?  
Been looking into into them and I can only find one course that has Fee Help and even so it's a $8k course and would take 14 weeks Ft or 11 Months part time. 
surely getting on site and working is better experience than what you learn in a classroom ?? 
anyone here do a pre-app or just found someone willing to take them on and just jumped on site and that's that ?

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## YoungBolt

Also not keen to either give up earning for 14 weeks or keep having to work in this job full time and study part time a pre app  
I'm handy and I've used tools before. Did 3 years of woodworking elecives as school too.

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## ringtail

> I had been paying $2000 a week into it

  Mmmm, boolshizer

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## ringtail

> should take up golf then mate...never had a desk job but would be like a prison to me being stuck inside all day sitting on my ass.  Luckily im feeling ok at 50 but i dont want to be on the tools when i wake up with the aches and pains.

  Buy a farm mate. You'll have aches and pains in bits you never knew you had  :Biggrin:

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## sol381

Yeah think marc meant maybe 500/ month...Unless one of his OTHER jobs was a gigolo..  farm would be nice and acreage is def on the cards.. al least the pain you cause is from working on something of your own and not working on something to benifit others.

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## Marc

Gigolo ... mm ... does it pay well? 
Haha guys, you should have a broader view on life you know ... things don't always fit in the pigeonhole we would like them to be  :Smilie:

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## YoungBolt

Gigolo lol  
i hear its hard work. Real stiff working conditions.

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## Bros

I think we are going a little off track and I know I am partially responsible with a couple of my posts but saying that I think we should get back to the OP question which I think has been answered complete with all the up and down side to it.

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## Marc

At age 27 i would go for opening a coffee shop in the cbd. you serve breakfast and lunch only and don't open saturday and sunday. 
And no splinters  :Smilie:

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## YoungBolt

There's too many of the bastards... cafes in every corner... selling their overpriced average food and fancy coffees ... and young people can't afford houses ...  
Although id have the business sense to properly run one well - I'd hate the pompous and arrogant cbd customers with their "vintage" outfits or $10000 Armani suits & iltalian leather shoes

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## Optimus

8k for a pre app? Wow!

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## Marc

Yes ... I see.
It's a fact that young people will never be able to afford houses if they think that those who achieve are bastards and they owe them.
Marxism does not work and will never work because we are individuals.
When you learn to see Armani suit owners as potential tickets to your house you will work your way towards your goals. 
Hate and name calling will only produce bitterness and resentment and enlist you with the big crowd of victims.
Your choice.

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## OBBob

> Yes ... I see.
> It's a fact that young people will never be able to afford houses if they think that those who achieve are bastards and they owe them.
> Marxism does not work and will never work because we are individuals.
> When you learn to see Armani suit owners as potential tickets to your house you will work your way towards your goals. 
> Hate and name calling will only produce bitterness and resentment and enlist you with the big crowd of victims.
> Your choice.

  Lol, exactly... and smashed Avocado of course.

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## Bros

As the batman said " Time gentleman please"

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