# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  How to replace bearers and joists under weatherboard cottage - any tricks?

## itcanbefixed

Hi all, first post ! 
I have an old weatherboard clad cottage that needs a few timber stumps along a side wall, along with the bearer on top of them, replaced. 
I intend to get a re-stumper to do the stumps, but have balked at the cost of $55 per metre for the bearer plus the cost of the timber and delivery. 
Is there trick of the trade holding the house side wall up while the bearer is put under the joists?  Obviously can't put jacks or temporary props under the old bearer as it has to come out.  The joists will need supporting, along with the wall.  Joist support is the easy bit.   Are there clamps (to put jacks under) available that can grab the bottom of studs and hold the wall up while old bearer is removed and replaced with the new one?  Can such a tool be hired?  Maybe I will have to make up some custom clamps.  Would the re-stumper have something that would do the job?  How do they do it?  Maybe they just attach a piece of timber across the studs & put a jack under that. 
Thanks

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## OBBob

I'm not sure but I imagine they use a temporary bearer behind the one to be replaced and jack off that.  Have you got a few quotes? I'd be hesitant to take this job on lightly (pardon the pun).  
Optimus on here is a stumper (hope I have the right member) and might be able to guide on the method and pricing.

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## droog

When I have seen it done the jacks go under the joists supporting load bearing walls (no clamps needed just some blocks of timber where the supporting joists are doubles), remaining joists with no load get enough cantilevered support. Once the load is supported the bearer can be removed. Be prepared to buy lots of jacks if there is a long length that needs replacing.
Would not be using anything attached to the studs as this will be in shear, place any support under the load being supported.

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## Marc

Not a DIY job.
The procedure is with a temporary bearer and a couple or a series of big jack and stacks of timber for safety. It is dangerous and structural so need a license to do it. your insurance company will not be happy to know you do it yourself.
Get the same dude to do it. This way if something goes wrong, you can fall back on him rather than the house fall down on you ... so to speak  :Smilie:

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## Optimus

How longs the bearer?  
Set up a jack on the each of the double joists next to the bearer in question, also you could set up another jack in the middle across 2 or 3 joist with a piece if timber (temporary bearer) 
Dont try replace the whole length at once, depending on how many jacks you have access to. Maybe 4.2m at a time or the width of the room above it.. 
The studs are supported by the wall plate which is supported by the joists which is supported by your temporary bearer.. 
I shouldn't say this but you'd be suprised at how little support a house will stay up with. 
$55 per meter plus materials and delivery is a rip off.. $40- $50 per meter supplied and installed is the going rate. 
Where abouts do you live?

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## OBBob

> I shouldn't say this but you'd be suprised at how little support a house will stay up with. 
> ...

  
LOL ... a bit of temporary canter-levering ... don't try this at home folks!  :Smilie:

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## Optimus

You are going to need at least six 8-10 tonne jacks @ $80 each, or you could hire them. If its not too long of a bearer you will be better off letting the stumper do it.

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## Optimus

> LOL ... a bit of temporary canter-levering ... don't try this at home folks!

  
Hahaha

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## droog

Here's a picture of one in action. 
About 7 meters of bearer, the supporting jacks are further under the house and are hard to see.

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## itcanbefixed

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.  When I got to work this morning I  realized that I had left out that the joists actually sit on the bottom  plate and not under it.  Tried to log on to add the info but couldn't  remember my password. 
Sorry Optimus, you have gone to all the trouble to explain and I didn't supply the whole picture. 
The cottage was built around 1880. Interestingly, the studs are actually tenoned and mortice fit with the bottom plate. 
I  can't easily use a supported temporary bearer just behind where the  replacement one needs to go because of the joist positioning not being  able to support from underneath.  The design is joist on top of bottom  plate, bottom plate on bearer. 
I may make some angle iron brackets and bolt the joists to the bottom plate.  Joists are 600 apart.  Live in Ballarat, Victoria. 
Forgot  to mention that quoted price was plus GST also, and I do not believe  the person who quoted me picked up that the joists were on top of the  bottom plate.  Length is about 9 metres.  Able to do in 2 or 3 sections  without a problem. The re-blocker doing the stumps will have the same  challenge as me with holding up the joist/bearer configuration. 
Shear,  if a piece of timber is put across studs and jacked under, is  definitely an issue.  This, along with lateral force, because the wall  is being lifted/held in an offset manner.  This will make it more likely  to go a bit sideways. 
I have access to six 8 tonne jacks and  sixteen scaffold screw jacks that I can place pieces of piping (with  flat metal plate one end of the pipe to spread the load rather than just  the open end of the pipe being against the supported timber) over to  use as adjustable supports (mini acrow props)!  Like your sense of  humour Marc, and you are absolutely correct - safety first. 
Will let you know how I go.  Thanks for your interest

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## droog

Photo's are better than a thousand words, paste a few up and you might get some other suggestions. 
Did you get quotes from other restumpers ? or is this the best of them ?

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## Optimus

> Hi guys, thanks for the replies.  When I got to work this morning I  realized that I had left out that the joists actually sit on the bottom  plate and not under it.  Tried to log on to add the info but couldn't  remember my password. 
> Sorry Optimus, you have gone to all the trouble to explain and I didn't supply the whole picture. 
> The cottage was built around 1880. Interestingly, the studs are actually tenoned and mortice fit with the bottom plate. 
> I  can't easily use a supported temporary bearer just behind where the  replacement one needs to go because of the joist positioning not being  able to support from underneath.  The design is joist on top of bottom  plate, bottom plate on bearer. 
> I may make some angle iron brackets and bolt the joists to the bottom plate.  Joists are 600 apart.  Live in Ballarat, Victoria. 
> Forgot  to mention that quoted price was plus GST also, and I do not believe  the person who quoted me picked up that the joists were on top of the  bottom plate.  Length is about 9 metres.  Able to do in 2 or 3 sections  without a problem. The re-blocker doing the stumps will have the same  challenge as me with holding up the joist/bearer configuration. 
> Shear,  if a piece of timber is put across studs and jacked under, is  definitely an issue.  This, along with lateral force, because the wall  is being lifted/held in an offset manner.  This will make it more likely  to go a bit sideways. 
> I have access to six 8 tonne jacks and  sixteen scaffold screw jacks that I can place pieces of piping (with  flat metal plate one end of the pipe to spread the load rather than just  the open end of the pipe being against the supported timber) over to  use as adjustable supports (mini acrow props)!  Like your sense of  humour Marc, and you are absolutely correct - safety first. 
> Will let you know how I go.  Thanks for your interest

  Yeah post a pic, but its the same procedure as i explained. 
Is it tile or tin roof?

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## toooldforthis

> Hi all, first post ! 
> I have an old weatherboard clad cottage that needs a few timber stumps along a side wall, along with the bearer on top of them, replaced. 
> ...

  good luck. 
I have started doing mine myself.
rang 4 or 5 professionals. only one turned up - recommended by David.E on here; he said it was the only reason he came.
he just kept walking around saying _he didn't want to do it_, and _my insurance isn't high enuff_.
couldn't get a handle on why not.
he said one side was pinned to stone foundations so that restricted where he could jack. Maybe the fact that under the house the slope is like 1:2 had something to do with it. He said _I would be better off with steel_, I said _okay_, he said _he didn't want to do it_. _lateral force_? I hear ya. my place might end up relocating itself down the slope  :Smilie:  
if I was you $55 + gst for the bearer sounds like it is worth the grief. prices vary from locale to locale. you should try Perth  :Smilie:

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## mudbrick

I must be missing something. If the $55 per metre cost is actually the labour rate for installation why would you bother doing this yourself? The job would end up cheaper than a service on the car... 
The bearer isn't a hundred metres long is it?

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## Optimus

$55+ the cost & delivery, he said. So probs  $70 p/m x 9m + delivery = $700 
For probably an hours work (depending on the location of the bearer)

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## mudbrick

Still doesn't sound too bad if all you need to do is drink coffee and watch!
Anyway if you are really keen to do it since you have access to the gear a temporary bearer as close as possible to the old one sounds like the way to go. If you gently Jack it up level and observe if it lifts off the stump a few mm easily or your joists bend too much then rethink it?? 
Is Your stumper doing his bit before you jack it or do the old stumps need to be removed and start again? He might not be happy working under a jacked house if it doesn't look professional!

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## itcanbefixed

Thank you all for your input.  Tin roof.  Hardwood frame.  As mentioned, my challenge with the lift is that the joists sit on *top* of the bottom plate, with the dodgy bearer under the bottom plate.  The joists will lift straight off the bottom plate if I attempt to jack under them.  Old cottage.  I have arrived at a solution. Put some temporary joists between the external wall bottom plate on the *underneath* of it, and take them to the next bearer in, which is parallel with the external wall.  The existing dodgy bearer is in the way of where the temporary joist ends need to go underneath the bottom plate, so I will cut slots into the existing dodgy bearer to fit them up against the underneath of external wall bottom plate.  While doing this, the dodgy bearer will be supported in between the gaps cut into it where the temporary joists will be placed.  Then a temporary supported 'bearer' can be placed under the temporary joists just on the inside of the dodgy bearer.  A length of timber will be nailed across the temporary joists to stop them racking (going sideways).  The dodgy bearer will now be removed, alternate gaps between the temporary joists will be blocked out, but the blocking not attached to the temporary joists. Blocking will be slightly taller than the temporary joists so that the bottom plate will sit on them when lowered. This way the temporary joists can be easily pulled out later and the blocking will be the support between the bottom plate and the new bearer.  Stump height will need to be adjusted as the level has gone toward the ground by the height of the blocking, but a few new stumps are needed anyhow, so this is not an issue.  Once new stumps are in and existing ones height adjusted, the new bearer will be placed under the temporary joists (and blocking), and lowered on to the stumps.  All temporary joists can now be removed.  Hope this makes sense.  Will add some photos of the operation.  Thanks all.

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## Optimus

While your solution will work, it is the long way around it. 
Are the existing joist up against the studs? If yes just put a few batten screws through studs and into the joists and then you can set up a temporary bearer next to the rotten one.. 
If not you could batten screw a temporary bearer against the studs higher than the rotten bearer and put a couple of jacks under that and then replace rotten bearer.. 
Tin roof you could just about knock out the rotten bearer with a couple of jacks under the nearerst bearer to the rotten one and take out the rotten one and nothing will move

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## itcanbefixed

Thank you Optimus.  Joists not against studs. Joists flimsy and around 600mm apart. 
I will try the temp bearer attached to the studs first, and be prepared to resort to the long way round if needed.  I will brace the wall sufficiently so that it stays vertical, and not do too much at a time. As you have pointed out, the wall will not be that heavy, given it is weatherboard, an outside wall, a tin roof, and I have removed the flooring of the two rooms it borders.   
Won't be looked at for the next 3 weeks or so.  Need to upgrade 40 metre long side fence of current residence to a taller and more robust one to ensure the new pup does not escape.  Only get the weekends to do it.  Wife's orders. Regards.

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