# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  Demolishing 1970's extension - footings

## djmvc

Hi all,   
I'm demolishing part of my house. I'm getting this done professionally and machinery will be used. 
This will speed up the process.  
This extension will be replaced with a new extension which will be 1000 mm wider, 3000mm longer and more consistent with the original heritage style. 
I have 2000mm setback and am worried that the machinery which the demo company has won't fit and could damage part of the original house 
Now to my question,  I had it in scope for the demolition company to also pull up the existing footings. 
Is this necessary given my new structure will be 1000mm wider (new footings will be 450mm wide). 
Is this something I need to check with engineer?  
This will bring quote down and may reduce size of machinery required.    
Thoughts?     
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## phild01

For what it is worth I would be asking why remove them if it is not going to interfere with any of the new work.  Just my thought.

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## Cecile

> I have 2000mm setback and am worried that the machinery which the demo company has won't fit and could damage part of the original house 
> Now to my question,  I had it in scope for the demolition company to also pull up the existing footings. 
> Is this necessary given my new structure will be 1000mm wider (new footings will be 450mm wide). 
> Is this something I need to check with engineer?  
> This will bring quote down and may reduce size of machinery required.    
> Thoughts?

  Are you an owner-builder, or are you using a registered builder?  I would think that the demo company should take full responsibility for ensuring that they use the appropriate equipment for the job.  Their quotation should have taken in to consideration the site and full scope of the work, and their insurance should cover liability.  Re footings, I would confirm with the engineer whether or not the old footings will interfere with the new work. 
I would love to see a go to whoa post about your renovation.

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## djmvc

Hi, owner builder.
Demo company has told me that they have 3T - 5T machines which will do the job and have given me a quote regardless of whether the 5T or 3T is used. 
Demo company came on site &amp; has considered the site.
I'll be getting insurance prior to the demo commencing, but he has told me that as a registered demo company, he has the insurance. 
I'll confirm footings with engineer (they won't be used in any event),  they'll either remain unused or pulled out.
Has anyone done a demo with professional company before?
I have a quote, but should I draft an agreement?
What happens if the original part of the home (which I'm keeping is damaged)?  Who is liable? 
Same for the concrete paving which the bobcat will need to go over? 
Is there a common rule that the demo company is liable for all items above ground (ensuring my front part of the house I want to remain, does remain in tact). 
Is the owner liable for the underground services? 
Not sure how it all works and the demolition is worrying me a little, maybe I'm just being a stress head.  
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## Cecile

I see you are trying to understand your responsibility and liability as an owner builder, however you have a lot of unanswered questions which are fundamental to any build.  I believe you should research AND understand before any work commences.  Make sure you have appropriate insurances in place.   
I'm aware that in some states you are required to do an owner builder course, not sure if it's required in Victoria.  To save yourself headaches and grief, I strongly recommend you do a course before going any further. 
Hope I don't sound negative, just wish for you to have a trouble-free and uncomplicated build.

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## phild01

...and a white card.

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## Gaza

Put some pics up plus a copy of your drawings but in construction things do go wrong so you have to plan for that maybe buy ply and cover anything that needs to be saved   
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## andy the pm

Make sure you get copies of licenses and insurances of people doing the work. The demo company public liability insurance would normally cover property damage. I guess the issue would be getting them to claim for any damage, I'm not sure of the process. For peace of mind I would be taking out Construction Insurance and Public Liability Insurance - they are normally wrapped up in the one policy but check. The CI would normally protect you fire, flood, theft, water, storm etc while the PLI will protect you from tradies that injure themselves on your site, or joe public that breaks a leg jumping your fence trying to steal all your copper pipe....

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## djmvc

Cecile - my understanding is that owner builders in Victoria aren't required to complete the course. You raise valid points and I've always wanted to do the course in any event.  White card, not sure of its relevance in Victoria. 
Andy - will certainly get copy of license and cert of currency regarding his insurance. 
I will be taking out my CI and PLI prior to the work starting. I'm still approx 2 weeks off the demolition.   
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## shauck

I'm not saying I know this stuff but I would imagine, if the works you are doing are risky to the existing building and during or before demo, the guys who you've employed stand with you and point out the risks of proceeding and you say go ahead, then that would be on you. If none of this discussion/warning/consent has happened, I would say it's on them if something does happen. Just how I'd see it tho. Even if this isn't the case, If I was you, and I had any concerns, I'd make sure to have a conversation about those concerns as and when they arise. For example, I had some excavation work done a few years back and part of that was going to be removal of ground behind house so the area below the deck would be flat and useable space. This would mean a retaining wall near/parallel to the house and a cutout beyond that. As they proceeded, they came across a sheet of rock. We stopped and discussed the options. They seemed too risky, potentially affecting the existing house, not to mention expensive. Clearly the responsibility would fall on me if we proceeded. Be aware of those conversations, making sure it's clear at that point whose responsible. They may point something out to you and then feel free of responsibility and you may not realise it until something happens. This is probably all obvious stuff and I'm just ranting.

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## imsarge1

FWIW ... Id be wanting to see that the demolition would be done in accordance with AS 2601 and the COP 14 (demolition Work)

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## Gaza

> FWIW ... Id be wanting to see that the demolition would be done in accordance with AS 2601 and the COP 14 (demolition Work)

  
Lol  
Demo guy read an AS that's made my day, do you work in construction mate or in a library this guy is not getting a tier 1 demo mob he's getting a guy that does demo has couple machines and a truck.    
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## imsarge1

Actually work in construction....  
Reading both doc's might help DJMVC get a clearer understanding of his rights, obligations and potential problems from an authoritative source (not that forum members aren't).... 
Mind you if you want to go with demo guys who haven't read or disregard the AS & COP be my guest... always creates work for others 
Cheers

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## djmvc

Thanks imsarge1,  I'll have a look at both docs. You're correct,  it may help me getting a clearer understanding,  appreciate your help.  
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## Tools

> Cecile - my understanding is that owner builders in Victoria aren't required to complete the course. You raise valid points and I've always wanted to do the course in any event.  *White card, not sure of its relevance in Victoria.*

  Lucky that you still have a couple of weeks up your sleeve to check on the relevance of a White (or any other colour for that matter) Card. 
Tools

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## djmvc

No cards required in Victoria as an owner builder.   
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## Tools

Incorrect. If the OP was doing all work himself then no card required but he is engaging others to do the work and they must all have a white card before starting. If the OP is undertaking any work then he also must have one. 
Tools

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## intertd6

If you start referring to standards for demolition of a domestic dwelling & contractors that can understand & abide by them then you will find the estimate for this trade more than likely will blow out & exclude most of them, they all should know the standard & associated workcover regulations, but in reality there are some rogues out there, most good small demolition firms will do the specialised stuff & contract out the machinery, trucking of the waste & tipping.
I'd be working with the engineer integrate the new footings & minimise the removal of any footings where possible, because removal of them is going to be expensive & could cause damage through vibration & movement of the remaining structure.

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## shauck

What type of footings are they? If they're timber stumps, cut them off at ground level with a chainsaw.

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## djmvc

The footings are strip footings which are part of a 1960 extension,  the structure is brick and I assume concrete strip footings below, although I don't know the depth.  There are also stumps.
The entire area of going, and being rebuilt. The new structure will be wider (900mm wider) and 3000mm longer. The nee specifications are to have strip footings 450mm wide,  based on this,  my engineer said that it's fine to leave the existing footings there. I don't know how much this will save me as the quote specifies that existing footings will be removed,  but will should make it less effort. I'll find out what the demolition company will take off given they don't need to remove the footings,  but I'm not expecting a massive saving.   
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## jatt

wrt courses.  HIA are/were (as of about 3 years ago) run a course for owner builders.  Its basically a project management thing.  Your not suddenly a qualified builder.  These days (in Vic at least) there is a minimum time period between ob projects.  Say you did an owner builder proj; you cant just do one after another straight away.  When I did mine it was something like a min of 3 years between. 
Once you got this course under your belt, you could have simultaneous jobs on the go.  it also gave you a limit, 3 stories comes to mind.  In my opinion probably not worth it for just a small one off extension job, cause I was quoted a bit over 2K to do it about 5 years ago.  If you were contemplating a complex 2 storey owner build from scratch, then yeah I would look closely at it.

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## djmvc

Demolition completed and worked out really well... Happy with the result and thanks to those who offered valuable input.  
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