# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  Was BP connectors - now licensing off topic cont.

## UseByDate

If this country was really concerned with safety when deciding what occupations/pursuits should be restricted and controlled by licence it would include food preparation.
 One of the most dangerous things one can do is prepare and eat food and yet there is no legislation to control it. Shame, Shame. Shame  :Shock:  *
Australia*
 In Australia, there are an estimated 5.4 million cases of food-borne illness every year, causing:  18,000 hospitalisations120 deaths (0.5 deaths per 100,000     inhabitants)2.1 million lost days off work1.2 million doctor consultations300,000 prescriptions for antibiotics 
 In comparison there are about 10 workplace electrocutions per year.

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## Marc

Licensing is a tool to restrict the exercise of an occupation deemed to be complex or one that has potential to harm the community if done improperly. Licensing regulates an activity and imposes learning needs. However licensing is also used for limitation of trade, industry protection, rising of revenues and a string of other things, not all conductive to a better world.
The distinction between profession and trade is academic. if someone does a professional job, I can not see why he is not a professional but a tradesman, and I know a few professionals I would rather classify as butchers, but that is another story.
As far as food preparation, there are cooking courses in TAFE and anyone wanting a job in a professional kitchen must produce a certificate. Everyone that works in the hospitality industry must have at least a food handling course yet there are scores of unlicensed cooks in jobs. That is the responsibility of the restaurant owner just like there could be potentially scores of unlicensed electricians doing dodgy or not so dodgy jobs employed by an unscrupulous builder.

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## UseByDate

The vast majority of food preparation is done in the home by unqualified (formal qualifications) people. There is no legislation to restrict this very dangerous activity. :No:

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## phild01

argh, those food prep people who leave their gloves on handling money and anything else, their grimy towels to wipe and clean their knives and benches...cringe when I get a sandwhich and watch all this.
Wrote to Arnotts recently asking about the inclusion of  Hydrogenated oil but just got an avoidance response about trans fats.  All that prepared food we consume is very mysterious and not for us to know about.
 Strange we have different degrees of value placed on what we do and what _they_ do!

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## r3nov8or

> argh, those food prep people who leave their gloves on handling money and anything else...

   I think many people who are asked to wear gloves think this is for their own protection, not their customers' protection.

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## UseByDate

Well my doctor certainly does when performing a prostate examination. :Smilie:

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## r3nov8or

> ...The distinction between profession and trade is academic. if someone does a professional job, I can not see why he is not a professional but a tradesman, and I know a few professionals I would rather classify as butchers, but that is another story...

  From Professional - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia* 
Trades* 
 In narrow usage, not all expertise is considered a profession.  Although sometimes incorrectly referred to as professions, occupations  such as skilled construction and maintenance work are more generally  thought of as trades or crafts. The completion of an apprenticeship is generally associated with skilled labour, or trades such as carpenter, electrician, mason, painter, plumber and other similar occupations. A related distinction would be that a professional does mainly mental work, as opposed to engaging in physical work.

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## Marc

> The vast majority of food preparation is done in the home by unqualified (formal qualifications) people. There is no legislation to restrict this very dangerous activity.

   I hear you and you are right. However in Australia we have the tendency to think that all that is wrong can be legislated into right and clearly that is not the case. 
Ever heard that parenting ought to be licensed?  
There is a lot wrong with the (commercial) food industry and most is not in the preparation rather in the content that is _allowed_ by legislation to be. 
As an example, the permissible amount of mercury in fish excluded sword fish to be served in restaurants. A quick tweak to the numbers brought the number high enough to allow sword fish to be served again. 
HMF in honey? The health department does not even know what it is.

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## Random Username

Well, I'm a professional writer.  You should all stop writing immediately. 
And Marc, if you are worried about HMF, you should avoid baked goods, cigarettes, fruit juice, caramelised meats and veg (no more BBQ's for you), jams, dark beer, roast coffee...(in fact, if anything, roast coffee should be the one to watch out for, not honey).

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## Bros

> Well my doctor certainly does when performing a prostate examination.

  I think that would qualify as a dangerous occupation. I've had it done to me many times and never get used to it.

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## Marc

> ... And Marc, if you are worried about HMF, you should avoid baked goods, cigarettes, fruit juice, caramelised meats and veg (no more BBQ's for you), jams, dark beer, roast coffee...(in fact, if anything, roast coffee should be the one to watch out for, not honey).

  Missing the point. What I am worried about or not is completely irrelevant. 
The point is that regulation or licensing of food preparation does not fix the shortcoming in the food industry. Considering that the biggest danger comes from perfectly legal ingredients that make it into packaged and fresh food, and considering the staggering ignorance and stupidity from those like quarantine and the health department that are supposed to protect us, regulating those who are too lazy to wash their hands or are working without a visa is hardly a solution. 
Of course this state of affairs can only exist with the implicit complicity of so many that like you are happy to dismiss any doubts with a backslapping she'll be right.

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## Random Username

> What I am worried about or not is completely irrelevant.

  Well, it must be relevant to you as you mentioned it, whether or not that worry is based in fact or is out of all proportion to the risk is another matter.   
In another thread where you mentioned HMF you mentioned that traces of HMF had lead to banning some honeys in Germany, yet I can't find any sites mentioning such a notable ban. 
Where does your concern about HMF in honey (in particular) come from, and why does it pose a greater risk to public health than say, unwashed hands in food industries or HMF in the Bunnies sausage sanger?

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## Marc

Your attempt at making this personal is noted yet dismissed as it is customary.
By the way how can you say "there is no record etc " do you really think you can have access to such information? Which country did you check? What period? Which database?
Google does not have all the answers and it would be too boring to give them to you.
Best of luck next time.

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## Random Username

I'm not making it personal, it's just that I'm one of these people who like facts, and if you are going to repeat assertions that do not seem to be backed by verifiable facts (or backed by facts that are only available to you), of course I'm going to call for sources.  I know how boring it is to copy-paste links, so I can see why you don't want to waste 15 seconds doing so. 
But if the real facts (of HMF or of Germany banning HMF containing honey) have been carefully hidden by the Illuminati via the Saucer people (or vice-versa) or courtesy of our reptilian overlords (who are in turn controlled by demonic overlords from another dimension), who am I to argue with them? 
Still not sure how a German ban on HMF containing honey could work, though, if no-one knows about it.   
German Customs Officer: "Vait, vas is das?  Deinen honig? Honey?  Vat is ein HMF proportion?"
Importer Dude: "Well, its (redacted) percent."
GCO: "Das ist verboten!  Das ist nicht akzeptabel!"
ID: "So like, what am I going to do with the three tonnes of honey I've just taken off the boat then?"
GCO: (putting on sunglasses and producing Men-in-Black style memory erasing neuralyzer flashy-thing) "Sieh dir das mal an!" ("Have a look at this!") _The neuralyzer flashy-thing is triggered; there is a brief burst of light like a camera flash, and the Importer Dude looks stunned._
GCO:  "Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus..."

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## r3nov8or

I think you have the answer. You need to google it carefully, in German.

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## Random Username

I'm sticking with the "German customs has a neuralyzer" theory!  Unless I learn how to seach in the language that the Grey Aliens use, of course!

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## PhilT2

[QUOTE=Random Username;972368]But if the real facts (of HMF or of Germany banning HMF containing honey) have been carefully hidden by the Illuminati via the Saucer people (or vice-versa) or courtesy of our reptilian overlords (who are in turn controlled by demonic overlords from another dimension), who am I to argue with them?/QUOTE] 
I thought that the mind control drugs were in the vaccines. But it was the reptilian overlords all along; thanks for straightening that out.

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## Marc

What a pathetic display of ignorance, prejudice and bigotry.
Just out of curiosity i made a few searches and found without much effort the import requirements for honey in the EU and Germany, and in addition with just as little effort, the toxicity of HMF in food for human consumption that justifies such limitations and makes a mockery of our food regulators.
What I find surprising is that grown up and apparently normal people actually believe that Google will provide all the answers and also that all the answers from Google are correct and irrefutable proof. 
Please continue without me, clearly you don't need me to entertain yourselves.

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## Random Username

You found them, yet you didn't provide the links so others could learn from them?  Here's one, from PubMed: 
"5-Hydroxymethylfurfural (5-HMF) as a product of the Maillard reaction is  found in many foods. Estimated intakes range between 4 and 30  mg per  person and day, while an intake of up to 350  mg can result from, e.g.,  beverages made from dried plums. In vitro genotoxicity was positive when  the metabolic preconditions for the formation of the reactive  metabolite 5-sulphoxymethylfurfural were met. However, so far in vivo  genotoxicity was negative. Results obtained in short-term model studies  for 5-HMF on the induction of neoplastic changes in the intestinal tract  were negative or cannot be reliably interpreted as "carcinogenic". In  the only long-term carcinogenicity study in rats and mice no tumours or  their precursory stages were induced by 5-HMF aside from liver adenomas  in female mice, the relevance of which must be viewed as doubtful.  Hence, no relevance for humans concerning carcinogenic and genotoxic  effects can be derived. The remaining toxic potential is rather low.  Various animal experiments reveal that no adverse effect levels are in  the range of 80-100  mg/kg body weight and day. Safety margins are  generally sufficient. However, 5-HMF exposure resulting from caramel  colours used as food additives should be further evaluated."  Toxicology and risk assessment of 5-Hydroxymethylfurfural in food. - PubMed - NCBI 
The only reference I could find to standards/HMF/honey were not German ones, but European ones - Council Directive 2001/110/EC relating to honey.  HMF content is the last thing mentioned in that document - after such important things as the electrical conductivity (not more than 0.8 milliseverts/cm), free acid content, water insoluble content, moisture content, additives and so on.  It's a standards document, not a health warning or ban document.  (HMF levels can be an indicator of incorrect warehousing or storage). 
Working out how much honey would a person have to eat in a day to exceed 100mg/kg....well, lets assume a 60kg person, so that's 6000mg or 6 grams of HMF required, and honey at the European maximum provides 80mg/kg...6000 divided by 80...that's like, what, 75 kilograms of honey in a 24 hour period... 
So now we know - to run the risk of adverse effects of HMF from honey, you need to consume 1.25 times your body weight in honey in a day.  I'm thinkin' a diabetic coma would set in looooooong before that!

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## r3nov8or

> What a pathetic display of ignorance, prejudice and bigotry.
> ...

  Towards whom?

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## Random Username

Well, I've found a source that supports the assertion that HMF is (one of) the closest things we have on this earth to a deadly toxin: _The Grand Illusion_, by R.D. Gable. (2014) 
Some other relevant passages from the book: 
"Therefore it's not just the heavy doses of Thirmersoal (mercury) and aluminium in vaccinations that has caused a 200% jump in autism rates"  (page 229)
"...cancer is actually caused by a fungus (Candida) that lives in the body...using sodium bicarbonate you could cure the infection..." (page 306)
"It is likely that the H1N1 strand of Swine flu was manufactured as a biological weapon in order to create a pandemic..." (page 332)
"Of course there is proof many organisations - World Health Organisation, UN as well as vaccine companies...are part of a single system under the control of a core criminal group...in order to justify mass vaccinations...to eliminate the people of the USA..." (page 334) 
...so it seems the truth is out there...(must go, I want to watch the X-Files now...!)

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