# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Need some help regarding replacing villaboard sheets and waterproofing in shower.

## Davidoff

Im getting my entire ensuite re-tiled and waterproofed by professionals however I'm removing all the tiles and getting it ready myself. 
I need to replace the two villa-board sheets in the shower as these tiles have been a nightmare to get off - splintering and ripping the board off with it.  
1. Whats the best way to remove the sheets that are currently on the wall, hoping to not have to use a grinder and create a tonne of dust. 
2. Is it best if i replace the sheets wider than needed in the photo as to get to the next stud and join it on the stud?
3. The joins that will be horizontal up close to the ceiling will they be ok with no support or do i need to add some timber in behind the join? 
4. in the corner of the shower do i need to patch it like a drywall join or do i use silicone or will a waterproofer take care of that?  
Thanks very much for any help in advance  :Smilie:   
Pic of shower.

----------


## stucutz

The professionals would have told you that you don't remove the tiles from the sheeting. you remove the sheeting.
Learning DIY is a wonderful thing....just learn from a professional before you blow too much money.

----------


## Davidoff

Yeah well thats a lesson learnt. 
The old villaboard between the tiles and bottom plate do i need to dig that out? or do i but up the new villa board to it flush.  
It looks like its grout then villa board then timber, worried if i get those old bits out the grout will come to and leave a huge gap between the board and tile.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

Hi David.
I would Start at the base and cut the sheeting off level or just above the shower topping/screed, a Grinder with a cutting disk will make short work of this but will make a bit of dust.  
Then move to the top and punch a hole in the old board away from any plumbing using a hammer, and simply pull the sheeting off with the hammer.  
(I assume the tiles have been removed?). 
If you have an old blanket on the floor it will reduce the chances of damage of debris falling and speed up the cleaning. Also so good practice to tape over the waste. 
With the wall studs exposed, you can plan the best way to fix the board to the wall. Looks like you may need an extra timber in the corner. 
Foot Note.
It's common practice to install the shower sheeting by cutting the sheet in half and having the bevelled edge joints located in the middle of the wall about halfway up and horizontal.

----------


## Davidoff

Ok so i've got the sheets all out and pretty much ready to re-sheet except im concerned about the old waterproofing. I've found some rotting wood from a water leak, a few people have told me the shower has been built incorrectly. Do i now need to knock out the entire hob and install a shower base?  
Once ive replaced the bottom plate if i sheet again down behind the concrete base will it just leak again or will a good waterproofing job be enough?  
Just unsure of my next steps. (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)

----------


## Uncle Bob

> (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)

  It's because people don't take photo's with their ifone or eyepad in the correct orientation.
Mac's are smart enough to know which way is horizontal, unfortunately PC's don't.
Easiest fix is to get in the habbit of always shooting video or pictures with the idevice horizontal and the shutter button under your right thumb, otherwise you need to rotate (in paint or whatever and save the images before uploading them.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

Find the builder and shoot him. The stud work is possibly the worst I have ever seen. It's very important that the wet area sheeting is build to prevent any movement. This includes a stud at the end of the shower sheeting, along with the bottom of walls and halfway across if the standard joint is to be installed. In your case, you can get away with studs around the perimeter of the new sheeting and at least 4 cross studs for nailing the sheets to the wall properly. 
The existing shower hob could be salvaged, but the tile on the inside and top should be removed and re-waterproofed to ensure it does not present more problems. Personally, I would replace it with a 50 mm angle. more reliable and easier to clean and they look more up to date and are cheaper as no tiling needed. 
I hope this helps.  :Smilie:

----------


## Davidoff

> Find the builder and shoot him. The stud work is possibly the worst I have ever seen. It's very important that the wet area sheeting is build to prevent any movement. This includes a stud at the end of the shower sheeting, along with the bottom of walls and halfway across if the standard joint is to be installed. In your case, you can get away with studs around the perimeter of the new sheeting and at least 4 cross studs for nailing the sheets to the wall properly. 
> The existing shower hob could be salvaged, but the tile on the inside and top should be removed and re-waterproofed to ensure it does not present more problems. Personally, I would replace it with a 50 mm angle. more reliable and easier to clean and they look more up to date and are cheaper as no tiling needed. 
> I hope this helps.

  Hmmm this isn't what i had hoped for lol. 
This is my first time renovating so excuse the silly questions. When you say replace it do you mean jackhammer out just the two edges that make a 90 degree corner that are the highest points. Or do you also jackhammer out the raised floor section thats higher than the rest of the floor? 
If i removed it what do you then install? A shower base or what is the 50mm Angle?

----------


## METRIX

> Ok so i've got the sheets all out and pretty much ready to re-sheet except im concerned about the old waterproofing. I've found some rotting wood from a water leak, a few people have told me the shower has been built incorrectly. Do i now need to knock out the entire hob and install a shower base?  
> Once ive replaced the bottom plate if i sheet again down behind the concrete base will it just leak again or will a good waterproofing job be enough?  
> Just unsure of my next steps. (not sure why the pics keep going sideways sorry)

  
Your next step is to jack hammer the old shower base and hob, remove and replace the rotted bottom plate, fit some sister studs next to the ones that have rotted out at the bottom, make the walls solid again then you can start sheeting the walls, I only did this exact thing a few weeks ago, they were hardwood studs and bottom plate, and the bottom plate was destroyed from the leak. 
You are wasting your time and money if you don't do the above, your walls especially the critical points at the shower need to be solid, and haze zero movement, this is critical to the waterproofing being able to do its job correctly. 
 I have ripped out enough bathrooms with leaking showers to find your exact scenario and every one was repaired as above. 
Legally you have to fit a puddle flange to the shower, what are your intentions to tile over the existing tile ?, how did you propose to waterproof the new sheets with the existing hob still there, waterproofing does not stick to tiles, I would also be knocking up all the floor tiles to start fresh, possibly the screed as well, if your going to do it do it right to save future problems. 
Are you getting the waterproofing done by a licensed waterproofer, or are you going to do it yourself. 
BTW you mentioned the old waterproofing, sorry to say there was no waterproofing in that bathroom.

----------


## Davidoff

Intentions were to yes tile over the tiles (have removed one layer of tiles already from previous owner) was planning on just re-sheeting and then i have spoken to a couple of waterproofers who have said they can use a different type of membrane for the floors?. (They however have not seen the bathroom yet lol) ... i guess this is why im here lol. Im an electrician by trade - my first renovation. I hate doing things incorrectly so im questioning myself at every turn as i find more and more problems.  
I was going to do the waterproofing myself but think i might have someone do it ...  
When i start going ham on this HOB ... what do i need to get it back to? will it just be flat with the exisiting slab? Is that what im after.  
Do i then need a tiler/plumber (???) to install what a shower base? or what needs to happen then. Got my wife on my case since ive come to a stand still ... haha

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Hmmm this isn't what I had hoped for lol. 
> This is my first time renovating so excuse the silly questions. When you say replace it do you mean jackhammer out just the two edges that make a 90-degree corner that is the highest points? Or do you also jackhammer out the raised floor section that is higher than the rest of the floor? 
> If I removed it what do you then install? A shower base or what is the 50mm Angle?

  That shower base consists of a tiled Hob (The wall on the outside of the shower.) inside that is a layer of mixed sand and cement referred to as screed, used to create a fall to the waste outlet for better drainage. This area and the hob would have been waterproofed before tiling. The tiles are glued to this. This can be easily removed with a heavy hammer. Strip it back to the original floor. 
I would never advise anyone to install a shower base, too many problems with them and far too expensive for what they are. 
Your waterproofer will supply and install an angle and waterproof the new walls, tap and shower spigot holes.
So all you really need to do is remove whats there, replace the rotted studs and add extra studs to the walls and fit the Villaboard sheeting, shiny side out.

----------


## Uncle Bob

> Im an electrician by trade -

  Well that good news, at least you won't be short of money  :Smilie:

----------


## Davidoff

> That shower base consists of a tiled Hob (The wall on the outside of the shower.) inside that is a layer of mixed sand and cement referred to as screed, used to create a fall to the waste outlet for better drainage. This area and the hob would have been waterproofed before tiling. The tiles are glued to this. This can be easily removed with a heavy hammer. Strip it back to the original floor. 
> I would never advise anyone to install a shower base, too many problems with them and far too expensive for what they are. 
> Your waterproofer will supply and install an angle and waterproof the new walls, tap and shower spigot holes.
> So all you really need to do is remove whats there, replace the rotted studs and add extra studs to the walls and fit the Villaboard sheeting, shiny side out.

  Hmm ok this is sounding more ... doable  :Smilie:  So when im back to the slab will i need someone to "screed" again? How do i get fall to the waste.   
The 50mm angle you talk about ... did a google search not sure if its literally just a 50mm bit of 90 degree angle steel (lol?) does the new shower screen (going for semi-frameless pivot) just go on the outside of that i guess?  
Im guessing i may as well rip up the rest of the original tiles then as well ... i didnt plan on doing that as they seem like an absolute nightmare to get off compared to the tiles that were on top of them. If i decide to get them up can i damage the slab ... and is that a massive problem?

----------


## Davidoff

> Well that good news, at least you won't be short of money

  Hahaha you must be thinking of plumbers  :No:

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Hmm ok, this is sounding more ... doable  So when I'm back to the slab will I need someone to "screed" again? How do I get fall to the waste?   The 50mm angle you talk about ... did a google search not sure if its literally just a 50mm bit of 90-degree angle steel (lol?) does the new shower screen (going for semi-frameless pivot) just go on the outside of that I guess?

  It's 50mm by 50mm at right angles   

> I'm guessing I may as well rip up the rest of the original tiles then as well ... I didn't plan on doing that as they seem like an absolute nightmare to get off compared to the tiles that were on top of them. If I decide to get them up can I damage the slab ... and is that a massive problem?

   You need to get base of the shower cleaned back to the original flat surface.
You need to replace or repair the wall timbers so they support the new Villaboard sheeting properly, both horizontal and verticals.
There should be no need for a plumber unless you want to relocate pipes for some reason.
After the Waterproofer has installed the waterproofing you are ready to start tiling. I would advise you to employ a tiler to do this, as the list of things to do when tiling over a sloped surface and cutting in a waste will take a lot of explaining. If you are very keen on DIY, I would advise you let the tiler do the shower base and the first two rows of the bottom tiles. Then you should have very few problems, hopefully?.

----------


## Davidoff

> It's 50mm by 50mm at right angles   You need to get base of the shower cleaned back to the original flat surface.
> You need to replace or repair the wall timbers so they support the new Villaboard sheeting properly, both horizontal and verticals.
> There should be no need for a plumber unless you want to relocate pipes for some reason.
> After the Waterproofer has installed the waterproofing you are ready to start tiling. I would advise you to employ a tiler to do this, as the list of things to do when tiling over a sloped surface and cutting in a waste will take a lot of explaining. If you are very keen on DIY, I would advise you let the tiler do the shower base and the first two rows of the bottom tiles. Then you should have very few problems, hopefully?.

  Yeah Im definitely getting a tiler for the whole job, just trying to work out if its gojng to cost more or not. Have had one quote $2300 for 5 meters squared of floor and 17 metres squared of walls including waterproofing of the room. That was tiling over existing tiles and HOB though.  
So just so I understand the 50mm angle does the tiler tile over that? It gets attached to the slab? Waterproofer will do this? 
And if shower area is now flat like the rest of the floor how does the tiler get fall to the waste? Is the shower concrete meant to go back into the wall at all?

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Yeah I’m definitely getting a tiler for the whole job, just trying to work out if it’s going to cost more or not. Have had one quote $2300 for 5 meters squared of the floor and 17 metres squared of walls including waterproofing of the room. That was tiling over existing tiles and HOB though.  
> So just so I understand the 50mm angle does the tiler tile over that? Does it get attached to the slab? Will waterproofer do this? 
> And if shower area is now flat like the rest of the floor how does the tiler get fall to the waste?

  The Waterproofer will waterproof the whole room, not just the shower and will also provide you with a Form 16 and a Written Warranty. 
When the waterproofer has finished the tiler can start tiling. 
The shower angle will only be around 30mm above the floor tiles when finished and looks very neat. You can ask the tiler to add some screed to hide it completely if you like but most people like the look as is. 
As for a description of screed: Screed a mixture of clay-free sand and cement used to create the required fall so the tiles direct the water to the waste outlet.

----------


## Davidoff

> The Waterproofer will waterproof the whole room, not just the shower and will also provide you with a Form 16 and a Written Warranty. 
> When the waterproofer has finished the tiler can start tiling. 
> The shower angle will only be around 30mm above the floor tiles when finished and looks very neat. You can ask the tiler to add some screed to hide it completely if you like but most people like the look as is. 
> As for a description of screed: Screed a mixture of clay-free sand and cement used to create the required fall so the tiles direct the water to the waste outlet.

  If I smash up and remove the hob and get it down to slab, do I need to remove all the other floor tiles in the bathroom? I’ve had a crack and they are a bloody nightmare. 
edit - suprised how easy the hob was !  
I think ill be able to get the tiles up now.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> If I smash up and remove the hob and get it down to the slab, do I need to remove all the other floor tiles in the bathroom? I’ve had a crack and they are a bloody nightmare. 
> edit - surprised how easy the hob was!  
> I think ill be able to get the tiles up now.

  Now that the hob and the shower tiles have been removed, you should start on fixing the wall studs in the shower area. 
Regarding the floor tiles. have a look at the entry doorway, the tiles in this room should be the same level as the hallway. If this is the case, tiling over the existing tiles will create a trip at the entry. So best to remove the tiles. discuss this with your tiler first.

----------


## Davidoff

> Now that the hob and the shower tiles have been removed, you should start on fixing the wall studs in the shower area. 
> Regarding the floor tiles. have a look at the entry doorway, the tiles in this room should be the same level as the hallway. If this is the case, tiling over the existing tiles will create a trip at the entry. So best to remove the tiles. discuss this with your tiler first.

  Perfect! Yeah i will get onto the walls next. Im going through your message further up about replacing the bottom plate etc.  
Once i cut out all the rot how do i "join" the bottom plate to the parts of the bottom plate that are ok or do i remove it all? Do i somehow repair the damaged studs or cut them back and put new ones in just up to the noggins? Kinda confused since all the plumbing runs through etc i dont really wanna have to stuff around with that if there is a way?

----------


## Davidoff

Have i just stuffed up? 
Been going hard on the tiles ripping them up ... was i meant to rip them right back to the slab? or just rip the tiles off. Started noticing the slab isn't level?  
i assume all that filler under the tiles is to level the room out? Was i meant to be ripping all that up as well???   Attachment 120030

----------


## Sandshoes

Rip everything back the the slab, doesnt matter if the slab isnt level the tiler will sort all the floor level out with screed once its been waterproofed 
Should look like this once its all stripped 
https://i.imgur.com/PEoWKhg.jpg

----------


## Davidoff

The middle waste puddle flange looks like its level with the old screed/tiles ... do i need to screed first then waterproof?

----------


## Sandshoes

Once its all ripped out the waterproofer will cut the waste level with the slab and install a new puddle flange

----------


## METRIX

> Perfect! Yeah i will get onto the walls next. Im going through your message further up about replacing the bottom plate etc.  
> Once i cut out all the rot how do i "join" the bottom plate to the parts of the bottom plate that are ok or do i remove it all? Do i somehow repair the damaged studs or cut them back and put new ones in just up to the noggins? Kinda confused since all the plumbing runs through etc i dont really wanna have to stuff around with that if there is a way?

  First you need to check the wall is not load bearing, if it is you will need to prop the wall up while you work on it, it's a good idea to prop the wall anyway if your going to start cutting any significant number of studs off to remove the bottom plate. 
Multitool is your friend here with a heavy metal blade and a good wood cutting blade, cut and nails that are holding the studs to the bottom plate, then you can cut the bottom plate up into smaller sections, and you will be able to pull it out. 
Replace it with a new one in one piece, clean everything out from the base (ie vac all the debris out) and you should be able to get the new bottom plate back in fairly easily  (make sure the plate is sized width wise to match the wall currently is) the new bottom plate should sit flush to the studs, and be fixed into the floor joists it sits on, you may also need to knock back some of the slab or existing screed if the bottom plate is trapped between the floor and the wall. 
You have two choices, if the studs are really rotted you can put a 2nd bottom plate in, this allows you to cut the rot off the bottom of the studs square so they sit hard onto the 2nd bottom plate, this is the easiest option if the bottom plate is trapped, as you cut the studs to suit two plates, this will allow you to get the existing damaged one out., or you can put another stud next to the damaged ones, you have plumbing that will be in the way which will make putting adjoining studs in more difficult. 
When I do these the bathroom is generally being reconfigured so the plumbing is removed and new studs can go all the way from top to bottom plates, then the new plumbing is put through the new studs as required 
Fix the new bottom plate to the floor joists with nails (nail gun) or 100mm 10G screws, then fit the 2nd plate to the first plate in the same way, then secure the studs to the new plate in the same way, if your going to use screws make sure these are galvanised, and you will need to predrill the studs or you will split them as they are old. 
Once all this is done and there are no protrusions and the wall is solid then you can resheet it. 
Also if it was my bathroom I would be ripping out at least the tiles or preferably the existing screed (generally easier), the tiler will rescreed a new floor for you with correct falls to the wastes ready for the waterproofers. 
When you fit the new Villaboard sheets DO NOT set the joins with basecoat or similar, leave it to the waterproofer, they should be using something like 11FC.   
If your struggling with the wall, you must know a decent Chippy, get him to come and fix it for you.

----------


## Davidoff

> First you need to check the wall is not load bearing, if it is you will need to prop the wall up while you work on it, it's a good idea to prop the wall anyway if your going to start cutting any significant number of studs off to remove the bottom plate. 
> Multitool is your friend here with a heavy metal blade and a good wood cutting blade, cut and nails that are holding the studs to the bottom plate, then you can cut the bottom plate up into smaller sections, and you will be able to pull it out. 
> Replace it with a new one in one piece, clean everything out from the base (ie vac all the debris out) and you should be able to get the new bottom plate back in fairly easily  (make sure the plate is sized width wise to match the wall currently is) the new bottom plate should sit flush to the studs, and be fixed into the floor joists it sits on, you may also need to knock back some of the slab or existing screed if the bottom plate is trapped between the floor and the wall. 
> You have two choices, if the studs are really rotted you can put a 2nd bottom plate in, this allows you to cut the rot off the bottom of the studs square so they sit hard onto the 2nd bottom plate, this is the easiest option if the bottom plate is trapped, as you cut the studs to suit two plates, this will allow you to get the existing damaged one out., or you can put another stud next to the damaged ones, you have plumbing that will be in the way which will make putting adjoining studs in more difficult. 
> When I do these the bathroom is generally being reconfigured so the plumbing is removed and new studs can go all the way from top to bottom plates, then the new plumbing is put through the new studs as required 
> Fix the new bottom plate to the floor joists with nails (nail gun) or 100mm 10G screws, then fit the 2nd plate to the first plate in the same way, then secure the studs to the new plate in the same way, if your going to use screws make sure these are galvanised, and you will need to predrill the studs or you will split them as they are old. 
> Once all this is done and there are no protrusions and the wall is solid then you can resheet it. 
> Also if it was my bathroom I would be ripping out at least the tiles or preferably the existing screed (generally easier), the tiler will rescreed a new floor for you with correct falls to the wastes ready for the waterproofers. 
> When you fit the new Villaboard sheets DO NOT set the joins with basecoat or similar, leave it to the waterproofer, they should be using something like 11FC.   
> If your struggling with the wall, you must know a decent Chippy, get him to come and fix it for you.

  Thanks for this! I will get to work on that bottom plate this arvo. I have removed all the old screed since yesterday actually and im slightly confused on the process after ive fixed the bottom plate. Im really noticing how little i know about other trades lol.  
1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to slab (im almost done) 
2. Fix bottom plate rotting. 
3. re-sheet walls. 
4. This is where i get confused, i am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally.
- Both tilers ive spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if i have to? 
- who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will i need to? 
- does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed? 
- does the shower screen (im getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit ontop of the angle or on one side? 
- do i need to get the shower area down lower then the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk in robe already i guess that why i orginally had a hob? 
Sorry for all the questions lol.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to the slab (I'm almost done)  2. Fix bottom plate rotting.  3. re-sheet walls.  4. This is where I get confused, I am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally. - Both tilers I've spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if I have to?  *Yes* - who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will I need to?  *The Waterproofer* - does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed?  *On the slab* - does the shower screen (I'm getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit on top of the angle or on one side? *On the inside*  - do I need to get the shower area down lower than the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk-in robe already I guess that why I originally had a hob? *No* Sorry for all the questions lol. If you do not ask questions you may never know.

----------


## Davidoff

> 1. Continue ripping up all floor tiles/old screed back to the slab (I'm almost done)  2. Fix bottom plate rotting.  3. re-sheet walls.  4. This is where I get confused, I am having the waterproofing and tiling done professionally. - Both tilers I've spoken to want the waterproofing done first ... they will then screed with a rapid set mix first day, tile floor second day, tile walls next day, grout last day. While it seems somewhat 50/50 on whether to waterproof before or after screed it seems like its better to do it after like you said? Is it ok to waterproof first if I have to?  *Yes* - who installs the angle in the shower? waterproofers or tilers? Will I need to?  *The Waterproofer* - does the angle go down on the slab or on the screed?  *On the slab* - does the shower screen (I'm getting just a semi-frameless pivot glass screen) sit on top of the angle or on one side? *On the inside*  - do I need to get the shower area down lower than the rest of the floor? because it seems like its the same height as the walk-in robe already I guess that why I originally had a hob? *No* Sorry for all the questions lol. If you do not ask questions you may never know.

  That is true that is true  :Smilie:   
Ok so the Angle is visible? and should stick up at least 5mm from what i've read? The shower screen is going to be black so ill make sure i get a black angle i guess.  
I noticed your signature, do you work at wetseal? Don't suppose you live on the gold coast and ahhhh looking for some work haha?

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> That is true that is true   
> Ok, so the Angle is visible? and should stick up at least 5mm from what I've read?  The shower screen is going to be black so ill make sure I get a black angle I guess.    The tiler will set the required depth of the top gap after calculating the depth of screed plus thickness of tile glue and thickness of tiles selected 
> I noticed your signature, do you work at wet-seal? Don't suppose you live on the gold coast and ahhhh looking for some work haha?

   You can free call 1800 025 081 from anywhere in Australia or New Zealand Toll-free. They will then connect you to your nearest waterproofer. 
Avagoodweekend.

----------


## Davidoff

Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?  
Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously i will sweep and vaccum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear  :Frown:   
Also the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if its going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right. If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?  
Appreciate the help  :Smilie:

----------


## METRIX

What you have done is perfect for the waterproofing, it does not have to be surgical clean. 
If your slab is level to the flooring outside you will have to have a step up into the bathroom, which would have already been the way it was.
The puddle flanges sit just below the surface of the concrete (grinded in so they sit just under the surface) and the waterproofing is run down into these creating a continuous membrane over the entire floor, up the walls and angles. 
The screed will be built up and appropriate falls set at the shower and floor waste, I like to use the grates which have a tile insert so you don't see the grates they look much cleaner (your tiler can supply the ones he likes to work with). 
These have two parts and an outlet which will sit into the puddle flange, some come with their own puddle flange some don't, see below for an example of how they work.

----------


## Davidoff

> What you have done is perfect for the waterproofing, it does not have to be surgical clean. 
> If your slab is level to the flooring outside you will have to have a step up into the bathroom, which would have already been the way it was.
> The puddle flanges sit just below the surface of the concrete (grinded in so they sit just under the surface) and the waterproofing is run down into these creating a continuous membrane over the entire floor, up the walls and angles. 
> The screed will be built up and appropriate falls set at the shower and floor waste, I like to use the grates which have a tile insert so you don't see the grates they look much cleaner (your tiler can supply the ones he likes to work with). 
> These have two parts and an outlet which will sit into the puddle flange, some come with their own puddle flange some don't, see below for an example of how they work.

  Thanks for the info Metrix.  
Saves me a lot of unnecessary work  :Smilie:   
Fixing the rot and sheeting this weekend with a chippy mate of mine, then just gotta waterproof and tile. Coming along nicely.

----------


## Davidoff

Hey guys just had two tilers around to quote up the work.  
Both of them want to use the waterstop angles in the first picture (pre-made ones) streamline i think they are called? , however they only come in stainless steel or white. My wife and i are trying to get the look of the shower in the second picture as we are getting a black semi-frameless shower. Is that just black aluminium angle? First tiler was saying there will be a gap on the corner if i use the normal angle that will be siliconed up? Doesnt look as good etc etc, most likely just harder for him i'm guessing.

----------


## METRIX

The waterstop angles go in the screed and stick above the tiles by about 5mm, then the semi frameless sits over this so the angle is completely hidden. 
Whatever that thing is in the first picture looks horrible and would be a mould catcher. 
Also with Black, be careful a lot of the black stuff is of poor quality, and will discolour over time, black tapware looks great but it doesn't stand to being treated harshly, something like chrome is bulletproof and will look as good in 10 years as the day you put it in. 
Search for articles regarding black tapware, you need to look after it differently to chrome or Stainless, such as the one below.  https://www.theplumbette.com.au/plum...black-tapware/

----------


## Davidoff

Got the sheeting done today. The nogs didn't line up with the sheets in one part so i had to remove it and re-do it, i've run out of villaboard but just wondering if this kind of join in the shower area will be ok with the waterproofing? Or should i really rip it off and do it again. If it can just be pumped full of sika etc im hoping to leave it.  
The shower niche kinda @@@@ed up my measurements on two sides abit. Will that be ok as well?

----------


## Davidoff

Hey guys got a few questions i'm trying to wrap my head around still.  
Both tilers have said they need to have the angle show at least 5mm through the tiles. Im assuming this view is as if your standing within the shower? If your outside the shower you will see more like 35mm?   
I've read on here that the shower gets installed on the inside of the angle, does this mean i need to get the waterproofer to set the angle larger than 900x900 for the actual shower to be 900x900. If the tiler has created fall inside that angle meaning its not perfectly flat and level thats ok for the screen?  
Lastly im tiling up to the cornice however the tilers have said it might look a little ugly and if the cornice isn't perfectly level with the floor there might be issues once he starts getting up there with different spacing between the final tile and cornice. Is it easier to : 
A - rip off cornice, tile up to ceiling and re-install new cornice. 
B - rip off cornice, rip down ceiling and re-sheet ceiling right into the corners / patch join and paint etc getting a nice square set look.

----------


## Optimus

In regards to the cornice/ceiling it depends if you want to take the easy way out or if you want it to look better.

----------


## Davidoff

> In regards to the cornice/ceiling it depends if you want to take the easy way out or if you want it to look better.

  Yeah exactly. If i removed the cornice and ceiling then re-sheeted tight into all walls. Does it need to be square set? Or will the final tile + sealant be enough?

----------


## Optimus

The final tile plus grout will be enough... just make sure the ceiling is level

----------


## METRIX

> Hey guys got a few questions i'm trying to wrap my head around still.  
> Both tilers have said they need to have the angle show at least 5mm through the tiles. Im assuming this view is as if your standing within the shower? If your outside the shower you will see more like 35mm?   
> I've read on here that the shower gets installed on the inside of the angle, does this mean i need to get the waterproofer to set the angle larger than 900x900 for the actual shower to be 900x900. If the tiler has created fall inside that angle meaning its not perfectly flat and level thats ok for the screen?  
> Lastly im tiling up to the cornice however the tilers have said it might look a little ugly and if the cornice isn't perfectly level with the floor there might be issues once he starts getting up there with different spacing between the final tile and cornice. Is it easier to : 
> A - rip off cornice, tile up to ceiling and re-install new cornice. 
> B - rip off cornice, rip down ceiling and re-sheet ceiling right into the corners / patch join and paint etc getting a nice square set look.

  
The semi frameless shower should have a groove on the underside of the aluminium bottom rails, this sits OVER the angle concealing it underneath the shower frame, I say should have a groove, check with the supplier if it does have it, as I have seen some that are flat. 
I would take the cornice off, tile up, and refit cornice, don;t take the tiles all the way to the ceiling, as you need to pack behind the new cornice above the tile line to give the cornice adhesive something to stick to, it does not stick to glazed tiles successfully.

----------


## Davidoff

> The semi frameless shower should have a groove on the underside of the aluminium bottom rails, this sits OVER the angle concealing it underneath the shower frame, I say should have a groove, check with the supplier if it does have it, as I have seen some that are flat. 
> I would take the cornice off, tile up, and refit cornice, don;t take the tiles all the way to the ceiling, as you need to pack behind the new cornice above the tile line to give the cornice adhesive something to stick to, it does not stick to glazed tiles successfully.

  Hey Metrix thanks for info i am definitely going to go down the new cornice route.  
With the shower screen, since im having a little step up into the shower area. (bathroom floor same level as walk in robe) shower will need to be a step up.  
Can i even have the screen sit over the angle? Because wont the angle have two different heights on each side ... the shower side will have like 5mm sticking out and the bathroom floor will be like 35mm?  
Hopefully that makes sense.

----------


## METRIX

Doesn't make sense, showers usually are set down below the main floor level, this aids with drainage, cant say I have seen a step up shower before unless there was a hob around the shower base.

----------


## Sandshoes

Im with metrix, I have never seen a step up into the shower, the shower will be set down from the main floor, you will end up with a step up into your bathroom

----------


## Davidoff

Hmm maybe im confused. I swear both tilers were saying that the bathroom floor will be level with the carpet into the robe. (there is photos above that kinda give a good view from carpet level)  
And then installing 50mm angle so they can build up inside the shower and create fall .. i just assumed that would mean it would be a small step up?  
Am i better off just doing a HOB?

----------


## Sandshoes

No, hobs are ugly. 
Trust the tilers to get it right, they do it everyday

----------


## METRIX

It means they will run the floor up from the carpet to get the fall in the shower. 
Be careful with doing this, if what they are saying means the entrance to the bathroom will be lower than the shower, this is not a good design.
If something breaks and a leak develops it means there is a lower point at the entrance to the bathroom, this is backwards to correct bathroom design. 
You want the entrance to be higher than anything else in the room to at least halfway where the floor waste is, this way if water does make it's way towards the door ie broken flexi, it will be forced to flow back towards the floor waste not out the door where it will destroy everything in the carpeted room. 
If you asked for the floor to have no step up into the bathroom you may be compromising water leakage possibility for looks. 
Remember water takes the point of least resistance, ie: it flows downhill. 
How much lower is the current floor compared to the carpet ?

----------


## Oldsaltoz

[QUOTE=Davidoff;1073632]Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?  
Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously, i will sweep and vacuum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear  :Frown:   If installing a shower angle, Just mark out the area the angle will be located and grind it reasonably flat. It will be secured to the floor with sealant. 
Also, the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if it's going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right. After the waterproofer has installed the shower angle and finished waterproofing.The tiler will Screed (a mix of clay-free sand and cement) over an area deeper than 50mm, and probably use one of the levelling compound type products in areas less than 50mm. 
If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?  The Waterproofer should install the puddle flanges, they will be just below the level of the existing floor and prepped for waterproofing. 
Appreciate the help  :Smilie:

----------


## Davidoff

> It means they will run the floor up from the carpet to get the fall in the shower. 
> Be careful with doing this, if what they are saying means the entrance to the bathroom will be lower than the shower, this is not a good design.
> If something breaks and a leak develops it means there is a lower point at the entrance to the bathroom, this is backwards to correct bathroom design. 
> You want the entrance to be higher than anything else in the room to at least halfway where the floor waste is, this way if water does make it's way towards the door ie broken flexi, it will be forced to flow back towards the floor waste not out the door where it will destroy everything in the carpeted room. 
> If you asked for the floor to have no step up into the bathroom you may be compromising water leakage possibility for looks. 
> Remember water takes the point of least resistance, ie: it flows downhill. 
> How much lower is the current floor compared to the carpet ?

  I've added some pics to try and help explain.  
Carpet is only like carpet thickness higher.  
From the pics what would you suggest happen?

----------


## METRIX

I would suggest you have a step up into the bathroom, this will allow the shower which is at the opposite side of the room to be at the same height as the entrance and the falls be run from the perimeter of the room to the floor waste in the middle of the room. 
You seem to have a decent fall to the floor waste, so it's a straightforward screed that needs to be done to allow the shower to sit flat on the tiles and not have any angle exposed (I have never seen exposed angle around a shower like you described) 
Your house was NOT designed to have the tiles flush to the carpet, this is because it an older house and the floor level of the bathroom slab is set too high, ehen we do the older bathrooms and the client wants the tiles to match the flooring height outside the room, we knock the bathroom floor down to have a FFL of 50mm lower that the outside floor level, this allows for a screed thickness of 30-40mm  plus adhesive and tile which will bring it to be level with the outside FFL. 
If it's a slab this can be a big problem if they want this done, if it's timber floor it can be knocked down much easier, but usually takes a complete rebuild of the subfloor to do it. 
If you don't have this amount of height you WILL need a step up into the bathroom to get the height you need to do the job properly. 
Your confusion of what to do comes down to in-experience, my advice is don't reinvent the wheel, things are done in a certain way to ensure trouble free future years. 
Basically get the tiler to do it for you the way it should be done, your tiler should know how to do it properly, for your situation it requires a step up into the bathroom to achieve the right fall on the screed and tiles. 
I would also suggest you remove that mixer off the connection points, dangling it down like it is will damage the flexi hoses if they haven't already been damaged, they are not designed to have mixers dangling off them like that. 
I suggest you inspect those flexi's very stringently if that mixer is being used in the new room, because if you have caused damage to the internal plastic hose or the stainless braided hoe, it has the potential to fail earlier than expected, then you will need to be sure the floor levels have been set right or you will be in for a lot of heartache. 
Below is the last one I did that the client wanted the bathroom level to the floorboards, you can see what had to be done to achieve this and the result below that.

----------


## Davidoff

> I would suggest you have a step up into the bathroom, this will allow the shower which is at the opposite side of the room to be at the same height as the entrance and the falls be run from the perimeter of the room to the floor waste in the middle of the room. 
> You seem to have a decent fall to the floor waste, so it's a straightforward screed that needs to be done to allow the shower to sit flat on the tiles and not have any angle exposed (I have never seen exposed angle around a shower like you described) 
> Your house was NOT designed to have the tiles flush to the carpet, this is because it an older house and the floor level of the bathroom slab is set too high, ehen we do the older bathrooms and the client wants the tiles to match the flooring height outside the room, we knock the bathroom floor down to have a FFL of 50mm lower that the outside floor level, this allows for a screed thickness of 30-40mm  plus adhesive and tile which will bring it to be level with the outside FFL. 
> If it's a slab this can be a big problem if they want this done, if it's timber floor it can be knocked down much easier, but usually takes a complete rebuild of the subfloor to do it. 
> If you don't have this amount of height you WILL need a step up into the bathroom to get the height you need to do the job properly. 
> Your confusion of what to do comes down to in-experience, my advice is don't reinvent the wheel, things are done in a certain way to ensure trouble free future years. 
> Basically get the tiler to do it for you the way it should be done, your tiler should know how to do it properly, for your situation it requires a step up into the bathroom to achieve the right fall on the screed and tiles. 
> I would also suggest you remove that mixer off the connection points, dangling it down like it is will damage the flexi hoses if they haven't already been damaged, they are not designed to have mixers dangling off them like that. 
> I suggest you inspect those flexi's very stringently if that mixer is being used in the new room, because if you have caused damage to the internal plastic hose or the stainless braided hoe, it has the potential to fail earlier than expected, then you will need to be sure the floor levels have been set right or you will be in for a lot of heartache. 
> Below is the last one I did that the client wanted the bathroom level to the floorboards, you can see what had to be done to achieve this and the result below that.

  Ok great i think i understand now. I will have to confirm whats happening again, so if i have a step up into the bathroom. The shower tiles inside the angle will all be at the same height as the rest of the bathroom and the shower angle should be level with the top of all tiles?  
I think i have been imagining the shower angle basically as a HOB which is getting me really confused.  
At the end of the day i will end up renting this house out so i'm not to worried about looks i guess i'd rather it be done right. I appreciate all your help mate, sorry for so many similar and stupid questions im just struggling to picture it in my head lol  
The next bathroom should be a lot easier for me haha.

----------


## Davidoff

[QUOTE=Oldsaltoz;1074095]  

> Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?  
> Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously, i will sweep and vacuum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear   If installing a shower angle, Just mark out the area the angle will be located and grind it reasonably flat. It will be secured to the floor with sealant. 
> Also, the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if it's going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right. After the waterproofer has installed the shower angle and finished waterproofing.The tiler will Screed (a mix of clay-free sand and cement) over an area deeper than 50mm, and probably use one of the levelling compound type products in areas less than 50mm. 
> If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?  The Waterproofer should install the puddle flanges, they will be just below the level of the existing floor and prepped for waterproofing. 
> Appreciate the help

  One issue i think i have is where the two shower angles meet at the 90 degree join there is fall to the middle waste so there is gap below the angle of about half an inch.

----------


## METRIX

[QUOTE=Davidoff;1074157]  

> One issue i think i have is where the two shower angles meet at the 90 degree join there is fall to the middle waste so there is gap below the angle of about half an inch.

  If I can ask, you seem to be asking a lot of specific questions for something you mentioned you are not going to do, not that it matters. 
Basically, your waterproofer will look after the angles and waterproofing, your tiler will look after the screed and tiling, you should not see any angle after the job is done and all falls should be towards the drains wherever they are. 
It sounds like you are wanting to do all this yourself, if that's what you want to do  just say so, you will recieve help either way, I know you have said you want to know if it's being done correctly, you will just have to trust the tradies that are doing the work for you that they are doing it correctly, just as your clients trust the work you are doing for them is done correctly. 
You mentioned you are an electrician, surely you must have picked up some good trade contacts who you trust to do the work properly.

----------


## Davidoff

[QUOTE=METRIX;1074163]  

> If I can ask, you seem to be asking a lot of specific questions for something you mentioned you are not going to do, not that it matters. 
> Basically, your waterproofer will look after the angles and waterproofing, your tiler will look after the screed and tiling, you should not see any angle after the job is done and all falls should be towards the drains wherever they are. 
> It sounds like you are wanting to do all this yourself, if that's what you want to do  just say so, you will recieve help either way, I know you have said you want to know if it's being done correctly, you will just have to trust the tradies that are doing the work for you that they are doing it correctly, just as your clients trust the work you are doing for them is done correctly. 
> You mentioned you are an electrician, surely you must have picked up some good trade contacts who you trust to do the work properly.

  Definitely not doing it myself, i have never tiled before and have to much of an OCD personality to try. One grout line thats to big or not straight would annoy me to no end.  
Im just interested in how its done, i like things done right and i like things done perfect. Hence why it went from tiling over tiles ... to ripping up bloody everything and now even removing architraves/cornice which i never even planned to do. I do have a lot of contacts but surprisingly no tilers/waterproofers locally but i do for almost every other trade.  
Guess i'm just paranoid about it, i want things done right and i'm happy to spend the money for that its just hard when i don't know what needs to happen. Like you said i need to trust the tradesman but hey thats hard to do these days, theres a tonne of bad ones i mean both of these tilers want to tile with no fall to the middle waste.  
In regards to asking about the waterproofing/angles, i have been contemplating doing that myself but again i'd rather pay for the peace of mind being able to sleep at night. I would constantly worry its leaking if i did it myself.  
Just trying to get the right information because even the tradies coming out seem to hum and har ... dont want to use puddle flanges because they'll have to grind up the slab a little bit which i've found out on here is a requirement etc.  
I guess being a tradie makes it hard to trust other tradies ... 
Sometimes i wish i was like my wife ... happy to just fork out 15-20K and get it done top to bottom no effort lol.

----------


## METRIX

If the two tilers are offering a no fall floor, then find another tiler who knows what to do.
It's not hard, you need a step up into the bathroom, this may be a 40mm aluminium angle across the door threshold, which will probably mean a 20mm step up into the bathroom. 
The angles around the shower might be 40 or 50mm, I don;t know as I can't see the room but the waterproofer will know, let the waterproofer do these after all it's him who will offer you the warranty. 
Legally you have to use puddle flanges installed into the floor just below floor surface, (it takes about 1 minute to install these onto a concrete substrate) these are usually fixed in position with Sika 11FC, the waterproofing needs to run down into the puddle flanges, all around the room perimeter, around any angles installed, and go up the wall to the specified heights at specific locations as described in AS 3740 (you can find this on Google fairly easily). 
The screed will be installed with the required falls back to the floor wastes usual falls come within 1:60 to 1:80 within the shower recess your tiler will set these up. 
Like I tell most people on here, you are overthinking it to the point that you will never get anything done, speak to family / friends ask recommendations of good tradesman they have, what about your carpenter mate he must know a good tiler, he would see them all the time. 
If you say where you are located someone on here can probably recommend trades they have used who were good, and possibly ones to steer clear of. 
I know I could give you a list of at least 3 Builders, 6 Carpenters, 3 Great tilers, 2 Waterproofers, 3 Electricians, 2 Plumbers, 4 Painters, 2 Asbestos Removal, 2 Structural Engineers,  3 Landscapers, 4 Labourers. 
 I could also give you a list of tradespeople within all the above trades I would never use.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

[QUOTE=Davidoff;1074157]  

> One issue I think I have is where the two shower angles meet at the 90 degrees join there is fall to the middle waste so there is a gap below the angle of about half an inch.

  Do not worry yourself. The waterproofer will ensure the angle is properly installed. He has to provide you with a warranty so will make certain it's right. If there are other problems he/she will be the first to point them and may provide advice on the best fix.  Good luck and fair winds.  :Smilie:

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Hey guys how clean do i need to get the slab for the waterproofer?  
> Do i need to get all the old waterproofing off in the corners, and every last tiny bit of old screed off the slab? Obviously, i will sweep and vacuum like crazy just wondering how much effort i need to go to cause the old waterproofing is a pain to get off and the tiny bits of screed leftover just never seem to disappear   
> Also, the slab is virtually the same height as the bedroom floor and is fairly level apart from the middle where the waste is ... i have read you cant use screed if its going to be less than 25mm so what needs to happen? I'm not doing this myself i just like to know so when the tiler tells me what he's doing i can make sure its right. If i waterproof first and have puddle flange's level with the slab, what happens with the grates in the shower and middle of the room? Do they just sit level with the tile and have nothing connecting them to the drain?  
> Appreciate the help

  The old waterproofing may not be compatible with the new, so should be removed. No need to be gentle, a chisel should make short work of the corners. Any of the old screed will leave bumps in the new waterproofing, if you will be adding new screed it's not going be a problem, just ugly. The waterproofer will likely us a cup grinder to remove any if required. There a number of alternatives to plain old screed that can be used in this situation. The tiler will sort this out. Puddle flanges are installed Before waterproofing and must be recessed into the floor and lower than the surrounding area. The waterproofer will supply and install the by grinding a small recess. The puddle flange comes with an adapter to hold the wast grate in place. The waste grate will drop into the puddle flange in the shower and then grouted ready for tiling. 
Good luck and fair winds.  :Smilie:

----------


## Davidoff

Hey guys, have finished the architrave's come up pretty well i think. Removing the cornice and tiler is coming in a few days. 
I had planned on re-cornicing but after removing the cornice im wondering if i can get away with a square set look? The ceiling sheet goes right over above the wall sheets. 
Im just thinking here could be wrong, can the tiler tile right to the roof? Yes im going to have that line of unpainted ceiling around the edge which ill have to sort out but surely thats better than re-doing the cornice? 
Also wondering if i'd have to patch that line where the old cornice was?

----------


## METRIX

You probably could go right to the ceiling, depends if the rest of the ceiling goes past the walls. 
I don't really like the idea of the top row of tiles not having walls coverage where the cornice was hiding this gap. 
You will have to sand and patch the ceiling where the cornice was glued on, it's not hard, scrape of most of it, sand it back , patch and sand again, I would want to have this done before the tiling starts to make it easier for you.

----------


## Marc

Yes, you can have no cornice and tile all the way to the ceiling and yes, you have to patch the gap before you tile.
One bit of warning. I did this in one bathroom recently. Patched the ceiling gap, all nice and square. Told the tiler I wanted all the way to the ceiling and he said no prob.
But.
In order to have full tiles (600x300) all the way, he gave me a 45 mm step. Had I known I traded no cornice for 45 mm step I would have had a minimal step and a cornice. it may work out for your depending on the hight of your walls.
Talk to your tiler before he starts.

----------


## Davidoff

> You probably could go right to the ceiling, depends if the rest of the ceiling goes past the walls. 
> I don't really like the idea of the top row of tiles not having walls coverage where the cornice was hiding this gap. 
> You will have to sand and patch the ceiling where the cornice was glued on, it's not hard, scrape of most of it, sand it back , patch and sand again, I would want to have this done before the tiling starts to make it easier for you.

  The ceiling does go past the walls all around except on one side short by about 10mm .. but yeah like you said the gap for the top row of tiles might not be great ill ask the tiler see what he thinks. 
Can this sort of gap be square-set or is it to much? Trying to work out whether im best off just re-doing the cornice once its tiled, patching the roof and painting or just straight up replacing the roof or getting a plasterer to square set it.  
With the roof how do you get all the little ripped parts of gyprock gone or you cant you just patch over that?

----------


## Marc

i had that issue twice and each time I called a plasterer. The bits of cornice come off with a spatula and a hammer. Then you have to smooth it out. The ceiling short by 10 mm is nothing because your wall tiles are probably 10 mm plus glue. if you had bigger gap in the ceiling you would be better off changing the ceiling then pathcing it up.
You could patch up the top of the wall with a strip of villaboard, glue it with stud glue and hold it in place with tape till the glue sets, or if you are game, use screws very carefully. Screw in only till the head touches the villa and let it set and then tighten the screw flush.  
Check with the tiler that he does not rise the bed just to get a full tile to the ceiling.

----------


## Optimus

You should be villaboarding the whole lot.. 
Thats alot weight hanging on a few screws and plaster glue

----------


## Davidoff

> You should be villaboarding the whole lot.. 
> Thats alot weight hanging on a few screws and plaster glue

  The walls are all villaboard. Just the ceiling is gyprock.

----------


## Optimus

> The walls are all villaboard. Just the ceiling is gyprock.

  Oh k must of missed that part.. my apologies

----------


## METRIX

> The ceiling does go past the walls all around except on one side short by about 10mm .. but yeah like you said the gap for the top row of tiles might not be great ill ask the tiler see what he thinks. 
> Can this sort of gap be square-set or is it to much? Trying to work out whether im best off just re-doing the cornice once its tiled, patching the roof and painting or just straight up replacing the roof or getting a plasterer to square set it.  
> With the roof how do you get all the little ripped parts of gyprock gone or you cant you just patch over that?

  Square setting really relies on the plaster internal joints being around a few ,mm apart this gap can then be set, if they are 50 mm, you would have to fill that gap with same lining, and then set the whole lot.
The little ripped pieces will all clean up with a sander, just don't o to hard on it, smooth it off then put some basecoat over the lot of it, lightly sand then topcoat it smooth,   
If the only problem with the ceiling is the cornice as shown, no need to re sheet the entire ceiling, just repair what's there, if you are going to put new cornice on, then cut the tiles short of the ceiling but long enough that the new cornice will cover them, this gives the new cornice ability to be stuck to the wall, as cornice cement does not stick to tiles 
Also if the original walls are painted this need to be looked into, as the weight of the tiles will be hanging on the paint, paint with a lot of weight on it tends to pull off, if tiles are stuck to it, they can fall off when the paint lets go.

----------


## Davidoff

> Square setting really relies on the plaster internal joints being around a few ,mm apart this gap can then be set, if they are 50 mm, you would have to fill that gap with same lining, and then set the whole lot.
> The little ripped pieces will all clean up with a sander, just don't o to hard on it, smooth it off then put some basecoat over the lot of it, lightly sand then topcoat it smooth,   
> If the only problem with the ceiling is the cornice as shown, no need to re sheet the entire ceiling, just repair what's there, if you are going to put new cornice on, then cut the tiles short of the ceiling but long enough that the new cornice will cover them, this gives the new cornice ability to be stuck to the wall, as cornice cement does not stick to tiles 
> Also if the original walls are painted this need to be looked into, as the weight of the tiles will be hanging on the paint, paint with a lot of weight on it tends to pull off, if tiles are stuck to it, they can fall off when the paint lets go.

  Awesome thanks for your help as always. Sounds like i might just re-cornice i think, do i need to bother patching the roof where the old cornice was if im putting up new cornice? Or just make sure its at least flat with the ceiling.  
In regards to the paint on the walls yeah i was worried about that, i have given it a good sanding and also put tonnes of cuts through all of the walls with a stanley knife?  
That usually do the trick or should i just leave that with the tiler.

----------


## METRIX

> Awesome thanks for your help as always. Sounds like i might just re-cornice i think, do i need to bother patching the roof where the old cornice was if im putting up new cornice? Or just make sure its at least flat with the ceiling.  
> In regards to the paint on the walls yeah i was worried about that, i have given it a good sanding and also put tonnes of cuts through all of the walls with a stanley knife?  
> That usually do the trick or should i just leave that with the tiler.

  
Considering the walls require priming before any waterproofing compound goes on, I dont know af any primers with painted finish as a suitable substrate. 
You can use something like Davco Ultrabond first, it's one of only a few products that can be applied to painted surfaces, even with this product you would still have the same problem if the painted surface is no good it doesn't matter what you apply to it.

----------


## Davidoff

Walls have been tiled pretty happy with it  :Smilie:  
However the tiles are clearly thicker than what was there originally ... now i dont have much length at all on the shower pipe. The rainfall shower head we've chosen doesn't even get a quarter turn on ... am i screwed?

----------


## DavoSyd



----------


## METRIX

Walls look good, nice choice of tiles, and where the shower goes is so much cleaner to have it flush to the floor.

----------


## Whitey66

Are they 600 x 300 rectified tiles on the floor?
I zoomed up the photo but can't really tell. Could you please put up a photo of the shower tiling and angle if it isn't covered with a screen yet?
Did you get the shower thread sorted? maybe an extension will get you out of trouble?

----------


## Davidoff

Yeah 600 x 300 rectified everywhere. Can take some more photos when i get home. Haven't actually fixed the shower yet ... but going to get the tiler to cut out around the pipe more. I also need to do it to the toilet inlet pipe as well.  
Extension is my only option but the larger nut part of it isnt going to get behind tile line so my shower arm and cover plate wont go flush ... Apart from using some other cover plate that has some depth inside of it i dont know what to do.

----------


## Davidoff

Here are the pics of the shower. The angle has been grouted over so kinda hard to see.

----------


## Whitey66

I was wondering how your tiler got the correct fall to the main drain with those big-@@@@ tiles?
Does it have a fall or did he just make the floor level outside the shower to save you from having a step up at the entry?
How did the square set ceiling end up? Is there a slight gap at the top or are the tiles sealed to the ceiling with silicone or no-more-gaps and painted?

----------


## METRIX

> I was wondering how your tiler got the correct fall to the main drain with those big-@@@@ tiles?
> Does it have a fall or did he just make the floor level outside the shower to save you from having a step up at the entry?
> How did the square set ceiling end up? Is there a slight gap at the top or are the tiles sealed to the ceiling with silicone or no-more-gaps and painted?

  
Big Azz tiles are relatively easy to get the falls right if you know how to tile.especially in shower recess, the big tiles are easy to get the required falls back to drain.
For the last 10 years all my bathrooms floors have either been 600x300 or 600 x 600 the rooms have been various sizes and shapes and had no issues getting the falls to go where they were supposed to.  
The big tiles are nice because you have the fall but it looks like the floor is flat

----------


## phild01

Depends on the shower size, you can get fall but you want it to be a straight line at the wall and that ain't always easy without the ugly diagonal cuts.

----------


## METRIX

True, that's why they created strip drains, I don;t mind the diagonal cuts, if done right these ensure no water pools at the corners. 
I'm not such a fan of the strip drains, the tile over ones are nice, but the open grate type ones are horrible, all the soap scum etc builds up and looks dirty.

----------


## Davidoff

There is a ramp into the bathroom i think overall height was 40mm. The ceiling was never properly square set they just tiled right up to ceiling and yeah sealed with silicone.  
To be honest the more i look at everything in detail the more things i think ... hmm that seems lazy. I dont know whether im just being picky though ... i am a tradesman myself so maybe im expecting to much?  
Are these kind of things acceptable? The tiles are all rectified so should i have any lippage on the floor? There are a few tiles while its very minimal i mean its not exactly dead flat. That first pic is in the shower wall corner which is annoying.

----------


## METRIX

The corner is very ordinary as it's very noticable, as are the joins, I noticed they used lippage spacers in your earlier pictures.
There should be no lippage or at least very very minimal at the worst. 
Far from the worst tiling job I have seen, but still not up to a decent tradesman level.

----------


## Whitey66

I wouldn't be happy with those faults. The whole point of using rectified tiles is to get even and thin grout lines, that second photo shows that only 2 tiles are lined up correctly out of the 4, with 3 different sized grout lines at that junction.
Surely this would mean that all of the surrounding tiles would be out of line as well, with the tiles being of the rectified type ??

----------


## Davidoff

Sorry for the spam guys but im absolutely livid right now, have just got home and the tilers have replaced the damaged tile only to damage the tile next to it and in a far worse spot that tile goes halfway into the shower.  
This silicone job in the niche is this honestly acceptable? I did a far better job than that on the vanity on the weekend and i hardly ever use silicone. Does the gap between the tile trim and tile in the niche need to be siliconed? surely that will just have water get in and pool inside the niche/run down wall??? 
They reckon they are done apart from grouting the original damaged tile ffs. I need to know whether this kind of thing is normal because i've had enough.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Sorry for the spam guys but im absolutely livid right now, have just got home and the tilers have replaced the damaged tile only to damage the tile next to it and in a far worse spot that tile goes halfway into the shower.  
> This silicone job in the niche is this honestly acceptable? I did a far better job than that on the vanity on the weekend and i hardly ever use silicone. Does the gap between the tile trim and tile in the niche need to be siliconed? surely that will just have water get in and pool inside the niche/run down wall??? 
> They reckon they are done apart from grouting the originally damaged tile ffs. I need to know whether this kind of thing is normal because i've had enough.

    You can tell them to do the job properly. Or tell them you will contact the building inspector. Or just contact the building inspector and he will order them to fix it.

----------


## Marc

What happens to the water proofing when they cut out tiles to fix a booboo?

----------


## Oldsaltoz

Depends on what product is used, some seem to stick and others just let go. The area should be cleaned and treated (Waterproofed) before installing the new tile/ Tiles.

----------


## Davidoff

More poor planning by myself but hey im learning ... toilet suite we like is well clearly very close to the inlet valve. 
It fits ... but i mean you would have to remove the whole toilet to ever replace it.  
Is this doable? Or is there anything i can do? Even visible elbows to move it over like 50mm?

----------


## phild01

Change the style of toilet or re-plumb from the other side of the wall. A back to wall suite with internal cistern tap inlet would be what I would do. 
Or relocate the outlet and get the tiler back again.

----------


## Davidoff

> A back to wall suite with internal cistern tap inlet would be what I would do.

  Hmm i didn't realise this was a thing? Thanks ill look into it. Im guessing what the toilet essentially covers where pipe comes through the wall? and the tap is concealed somewhere?

----------


## Whitey66

Do you have access to the other side of the wall?

----------


## Davidoff

> Do you have access to the other side of the wall?

  Yes it backs onto the hallway. Otherside is just a gyprock wall.

----------


## phild01

> Hmm i didn't realise this was a thing? Thanks ill look into it. Im guessing what the toilet essentially covers where pipe comes through the wall? and the tap is concealed somewhere?

  With rear wall access, a plumber could easily and quickly relocate the outlet to the side or higher for a concealed cistern tap.  The tap is inside the cistern above the water line. Then re-plaster the wall.
A back to wall pan may cover the hole.

----------


## Davidoff

> With rear wall access, a plumber could easily and quickly relocate the outlet to the side or higher for a concealed cistern tap.  The tap is inside the cistern above the water line. Then re-plaster the wall.
> A back to wall pan may cover the hole.

  Will that be easier and less expensive than removing the tile and changing the plumbing then replacing do you think?

----------


## phild01

> Will that be easier and less expensive than removing the tile and changing the plumbing then replacing do you think?

  Getting a plumber would not cost much difference either way considering the call-out rates, plus cost for a few extra bits. If you do go back to wall internal tap, you need to mark the exact location of the tap position and ensure there is no stud in the way. 
Did you take pics before sheeting.

----------


## Davidoff

> Getting a plumber would not cost much difference either way considering the call-out rates, plus cost for a few extra bits. If you do go back to wall internal tap, you need to mark the exact location of the tap position and ensure there is no stud in the way. 
> Did you take pics before sheeting.

  Yeah i have this one ... there is a stud on that sheet join which is most likely in the way?   
I was going with something like this.   https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9...3d50961179.pdf 
But maybe i just get a close couple toilet now ... save the drama i guess something like this doesn't look to bad. Just a shame since i've done all this and now putting in a toilet we basically already had.   Tradelink :: Products 
Only issue i have with that tradelink one i notice it doesnt have variable set-out distance.

----------


## phild01

> Yeah i have this one ... there is a stud on that sheet join which is most likely in the way?   
> I was going with something like this.   https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9...3d50961179.pdf 
> But maybe i just get a close couple toilet now ... save the drama i guess something like this doesn't look to bad. Just a shame since i've done all this and now putting in a toilet we basically already had.   Tradelink :: Products 
> Only issue i have with that tradelink one i notice it doesnt have variable set-out distance.

  Isn't that the shower!!
Anyway, go with a pan that doesn't have a cliff drop inside it, better to have a well rounded inside shape so things slide down.

----------


## Davidoff

> Isn't that the shower!!
> Anyway, go with a pan that doesn't have a cliff drop inside it, better to have a well rounded inside shape so things slide down.

  Haha yes sorry should have explained better. Where the blue towel is the toilet waste pipe. That join in the sheet running up near it is right behind where the toilet will be.

----------


## phild01

> Haha yes sorry should have explained better. Where the blue towel is the toilet waste pipe. That join in the sheet running up near it is right behind where the toilet will be.

  The pic isn't very revealing but assuming the cistern tap is just left of frame and the join is a stud, then with rear access it would seem easy enough to do the back to wall.  Not enough info though.

----------


## Davidoff

Opinions on this?  I have taken a look down the waste pipe of my shower and while its hard to tell the waste pipe from the tile insert seems stuck directly down onto the slab. Meaning water cannot escape the screed right? Looking back at progress pics i also noticed there is definitely no puddle flange installed. These are the tile inserts they used and i found the white mega flex bases or puddle flanges in the trash. Slightly concerned because of my last bathroom leaking ...  
I have spoken with the tiler and he says theres a gap between the tile insert and the slab ... doesn't feel or look like it at all. 
Is this a problem or should i not worry about it?   I have asked him for a form 16 and he says i don't need it and its just for him to give to the council. Should i be pushing harder for a form 16 and warranty?  
Also am i meant to get council approval in QLD for a bathroom reno?

----------


## Davidoff

Ensuite is done. Thanks for everyones help on here. Pretty happy with it all i think we could have chosen better tile colours ... i like the dark grey but the lighter tile looks a little weird.  
First time renovation though i guess ... think total cost came to around $5500. Not to bad considering. 
 Second bathroom should be a lot smoother fingers crossed.  :Smilie:

----------


## Davidoff

Guys i need help here. I am working on the main bathroom and as i've pulled off the sheets that have tiles on them. I come across this hole that connects into my ensuite that has just been FINISHED.  
I had the hole covered in duct tape because tonnes of ants were coming out of it etc while i was renovating. Not only did they not even remove the duct tape (i cut it away because when i touched it it felt hollow) There is BARELY ANY glue on there at all. I have put a yellow tounge in that gap up and to the sides and even it goes in about 100mm each way before hitting something.  
Surely this is beyond lazy and poor workmanship? Where do i stand here. I still havent paid this guy because he wont send through a form 16 on the waterproofing. To be honest i've had it and almost want to get someone with authority involved. Im sure i've read that the tile needs to be at least 90% covered. The tiles are 600x300 on the other side.  
I know there is really no wall there at all anyway for the glue but its missing a lot more glue than just that hole. What if all the tiles are like that.

----------


## Whitey66

First off, they weren't white ants coming out were they? After seeing the white ant damage in your bathroom you may have disturbed them when you were doing the ensuite. Were they black ants or a light coloured ants with big choppers?
They usually run for the hills when disturbed, that is why it's best not to disturb their tunnels if you find them.
Why didn't you fill the hole in the villaboard properly when you were doing the work? I hope that hole isn't in a place that was supposed to be waterproofed  :Eek: 
Sounds like the tiles might have been blobbed, on thinner tiles you can check where the glue is by tapping the tile face carefully with a plastic screwdriver handle but i'm not sure if works on thicker 300 x 600s but it should.
If it makes a solid sound it means it's glued at that point, if it makes a hollow sound - no adhesive. Check at the corners and compare to the middle section, it should sound the same all the way across the tile surface.

----------


## METRIX

Sounds like your walls were way out of whack if you can get a yellow tongue in between the tile and the sheet.They would have put the tiles on with big blobs then if the walls are that far out of being plumb, there is nothing wrong with putting the tiles on with blobs it's really the only way it can be done if the walls are out of whack.Did you check the walls before they tiles, were they plumb or crooked ?

----------


## Davidoff

> Sounds like your walls were way out of whack if you can get a yellow tongue in between the tile and the sheet.They would have put the tiles on with big blobs then if the walls are that far out of being plumb, there is nothing wrong with putting the tiles on with blobs it's really the only way it can be done if the walls are out of whack.Did you check the walls before they tiles, were they plumb or crooked ?

  Hmm they were level at least ... whether it was all square or not im not to sure. If its alright to do that then thats fine i guess.  
Whats my best option for a door here ... misses originally wanted a no door ensuite. Now she barely even uses the damn thing cause she doesnt wanna poo with the door open.  
Told her that from the beginning but hey ...  
Originally had a sliding door here. Will i need to do the same thing? Or anything else i can do? Cant seem to find sliding doors anymore. Excuse the lazy apprentice in the photo.

----------


## JB1

Who wouldn't want to do a @@@@ with a dog watching you.

----------


## METRIX

> Hmm they were level

  
You don't really get level walls unless the top of the wall is exposed, you can have a level floor, but your walls should be plumb. 
I would suggest the walls were not plumb, hence why the tiles had to be built out substantially, these are things a chippy will fix for you before you put the linings on and start the snowball effect.

----------


## METRIX

> Whats my best option for a door here ... misses originally wanted a no door ensuite. Now she barely even uses the damn thing cause she doesnt wanna poo with the door open.  
> Told her that from the beginning but hey ...

  Doing a craap with no door is the least of your worries, the steam from the ensuite will go out the door (no matter how good the exhaust system is) this steam will settle on the clothes in the WIR and they will go mouldy. 
Also that poo smell will come into the WIR and bedroom with no door, nice.  :Frown:  
Designing and practicality are two completely different things, some people know how make something abide by both some don't. )  :Smilie:  
Oh yes the door issue, few options you can probably fit a door that opens to the other side of the toilet, or you could swing it outwards, or you could put an external sliding door inside the bathroom, or a set of bifold doors, plenty of ways to fit this one up.

----------


## Marc

So true. I have seen ensuite with no door, but invariably they get not used unless the person sleeps alone. 
if the fashion is exposed loo, why have doors on bathrooms? 
Can I use your toilet? Sure, don't worry about no door, I look elsewhere ...  :Frown:

----------


## METRIX

> So true. I have seen ensuite with no door, but invariably they get not used unless the person sleeps alone. 
> if the fashion is exposed loo, why have doors on bathrooms? 
> Can I use your toilet? Sure, don't worry about no door, I look elsewhere ...

  Reminds me of that apartment in Sydney with the loo and shower in the open plan lounge / Kitchen, and another one I saw in the Hills district, which had a glass walled bathroom in the loungeroom, why ?, Who knows. 
Oh don't mind me, im just doing a crap, while I do that I will just butter some toast for you, do you want vegemite with it ? EWWWWWW 
Oh also would you mind if I had a shower while you amuse yourself on the lounge   Attachment 120744

----------


## Davidoff

Jesus now i gotta deal with moldy clothes lol ... whats the best option here. Sliding door most likely? But can it be mounted and hung on tiles ... would need to hit at least one stud i guess? 
Or should i just throw a normal door in there.

----------


## METRIX

> Jesus now i gotta deal with moldy clothes lol ... whats the best option here. Sliding door most likely? But can it be mounted and hung on tiles ... would need to hit at least one stud i guess? 
> Or should i just throw a normal door in there.

  Hollow doors are made from air and weigh around 1kg  :Smilie:   :Smilie: , there will be timber across the top of the door and yes find studs and screw the timber guide into these then the sliding mech onto the timber, put a wall mounted sliding guide instead of a floor mounted one.

----------


## Marc

Yea ... I hate sliding doors. If you have half a chance to fit a normal door even if it means swinging out, do that. 
My ensuite has a sliding door but I built it when I did the frame. Hollow wall made with 90x35 on the side on both sides. Door slides inside the wall ...Rubbish. 
They do work but they are not soundproof nor air tight and you need both for an ensuite. 
i would hate to have to chop a freshly tiled wall to fit a sliding door. And fitting it outside the wall will look like a country shed.
May be you would be a candidate for that sideways folding rolling door?

----------


## Davidoff

I think since the door will mostly be left open except when pooping i should go with a sliding door.  
Is this the kind of thing you'd use these days? I cant seem to find like wooden pelmets ... dont really wanna make one.   https://www.bunnings.com.au/cowdroy-...track_p3980000 
Dont know how good that will look though.

----------


## METRIX

> I think since the door will mostly be left open except when pooping i should go with a sliding door.  
> Is this the kind of thing you'd use these days? I cant seem to find like wooden pelmets ... dont really wanna make one.   https://www.bunnings.com.au/cowdroy-...track_p3980000 
> Dont know how good that will look though.

  You don't find pelmets, you make them, they are easy to make and that product you linked to looks, umm very ordinary, but will work, .

----------


## Davidoff

Yeah im not keen on how it looks either ... the alternative is to what buy tracks etc seperately? Hang the door and everything and then you build a pelmet to suit?

----------


## METRIX

Yep, you just need a piece of timber from the top of the opening fixed to the wall so you can screw the track to it, put the track on, put a wall mounted door guide, then a simple plain timber pelmet painted the same as the door.
You have porcelain tiles, so you need diamond drill to get through them as I explained to you previously, tungsten won't go through porcelain tiles.

----------

