# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  Bottle jacks for stump work

## ThornyBob

G'day, 
our place was "done" a few years ago, levelled and a few extra stumps placed. In the meantime it has moved here and there and we would like to fix the level and maybe place a few extra stumps to spread the load in any obvious bad spots.  
Question is, what size jack ?  Found that someone on here had used these fellas Hydraulic Bottle Jack - 8 Ton / 8,000kgs (T90803) - In Stock at www.bulkdeals.com.au which are as cheap as chips, less than half the price for a similar article from supercheap or the local DIY toolshop - specs are confusing, says 8t at the top and 4t at the bottom !!  Are they cheap cos they are rated at 4t and FAIL at 8t ? 
What is the usual beast for this job please ? 
House is usual 3br 1970's brick veneer with terracotta tile roof sitting on western suburbs clay. BTW, all stumps are concrete with some of the oldies having extensive packing, 3"-4" ! There is a big depression at the centre, looks to have been very wet many years ago, I noted that the water pipes have all been replaced in copper - odd bits of rusty GWI lying around ground from old system. 
thanks,
Bob

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## Grunt_au

G'Day Bob 
My story - my place in Frankston South was "done" 8 years ago. I bought it 2 years ago. It had a few spots that had settled, mostly on the west outside wall and the internal load bearing walls (2 story house). First I did a small excavation to look for wet soil, if you have wet soil there's no point levelling. It sounds like you've looked at that already, but it's worth digging down around a "low " stump to make sure. Luckily for me the foundations are dry, just lots of clay about 1 foot down. Next I rented a 10T jack from Kennards and GENTLY jacked up 5 mm at a time on the low stumps. As I have a 2 story house with tile roof I had to block up under the jack as it would push down into the soil. I then left it a week to settle then shimmed the surrounding stumps to stop the squeaks. Some of the joists were bowed but they dropped down after a week. 
Also - I believe the MAXIMUM you are supposed to pack a stump is 50mm. If your stumps need 3-4 " thats a BIG problem. Excavate 1 stump to see if there's enough concrete. It should be 350 diam and 500 deep (I believe)Also - the restumper should have given a 10 year guarantee. 3 inches is unacceptable and THEY should fix it 
If your house is brick veneer the stumps wont be on load bearing walls, just internal floor supports so just about any jack will do 
It wont be perfect, but it is a 30 yr old house - http://www.buildingcommission.com.au...T_GUIDE_07.pdf look at point 17.03 
You dont need a permit, but you do need to be safe - Checklist for re-stumping operations - WorkSafe Victoria 
Good luck - Grant.

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## ThornyBob

G'day Grant, 
thanks for your comments.   

> .......If your house is brick veneer the stumps wont be on load bearing walls, just internal floor supports so just about any jack will do.....

  we have load bearing walls through the centre where the roof is strutted from the rafters and a post at each end of the peak. I'd reckon that there would be a fair sort of weight at the post points, one in particular, at the junction of the two sides of the "L" shaped floor plan. 
The heavily packed stumps are the ones where the restumper we had a few years ago has provided new stumps adjacent to.  As our place is on the high side of the road I wouldn't be surprised if there is quite a bit of fill from the road excavation under us.... 
Didn't make any holes looking for water whilst I was under there, have to check that aspect out - it's all nice and dry on the top though. 
I've located the previous poster again where the elcheapo jacks were mentioned and sent an email asking whether or not he was happy with them - still be good to have comments from others though on suitable jack ratings. 
cheers,
Bob

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## Craigoss

I have 4 of those 8T jacks, can't remember if I bought it from that website or another, but they were exactly the same and about $45 each. They have served me well over the past 2 years, I have re-leveled all the floors in my house and re-leveled an attached timber extension on my house.

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## ThornyBob

G'day Craigoss, 
thanks mate, that's what were looking for - also had a positive comment email as well on these jacks, 2 for none against, looking good.   :Redface: ) 
cheers,
Bob

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## Godzilla73

G'day, 
I've done a bit of leveling around my place, with an 8 tonne bottle jack and a few decent lumps of steel to spread the load. Worked great, a few tips though, get a cheap small hammer drill with chisel stop function and the widest spade bit you can find. I picked one up for $99 was great for hard clay, when you start jacking, if you start to crush the timber bearer you've gone about as far as you're gonna go.  
Good Luck...

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## Bloss

A 2 tonne jack is often enough force to lift the bearer over a single pier/stump the small amount you should be needing. I have used 5T jacks as my standards for yonks and also have some 20T. I have often enough used a simple car scissor jack and have used bumper jacks too on outside bearers - and they are rated at <1T. This is at a single spot for a small lift of course and generally for packing 5-10mm maximum. 
The cheaper jacks tend to have a single stage action with the only adjustment a single screw thread, more expensive ones have multiple stage action which allows the jack to be more squat for any given lift height capacity and can make life easier in tight spots. But with good access a single stager 8T is fine. In any case even cheap hydraulic jacks have overload valves - they'll lift until they can't - they will not collapse, but will get to the max then additional pumping creates no more lift - as happens when the jack reaches full extension. 
BTW - Glad you picked up on the incorrect comment about stumps in a 'brick veneer' not being load bearing. In fact it is the stumps in a full brick house that are much less likely to be load-bearing (but might still be!). The external skin is not an indicator - the roof structure is, but even then the only way to know is to look at the as-built structure of the specific building (not simply the plans!) - and know what you are seeing when you look! 
Roof trusses can often mean that internal walls are non-load bearing, but not always as some roof layouts mean loads are taken down on internal walls. Except for a few any house built prior to the early 1960s will have a conventional roof and so stumps will be under load-bearing internal walls - brick veneer or not.

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## stevoh741

[QUOTE=Bloss;842998]A 2 tonne jack is often enough force to lift the bearer over a single pier/stump the small amount you should be needing. I have used 5T jacks as my standards for yonks and also have some 20T. I have often enough used a simple car scissor jack QUOTE] 
I tried a scissor jack ond now I only have a broken scissor jack. Folded in half trying to jack up a bearer. Personally, I'd go for the 8T min....

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## Moondog55

Never tried a scissor jack myself, but like Bloss i have used them from 1 tonne to 12 tonne all with the same result. House lifts
So buy the most cost effective; I think those cheap jacks I see at the market are rated in Chinese tonnes, the decimal point is simply in the wrong place

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## Bloss

[QUOTE=stevoh741;843010]  

> QUOTE] 
> I tried a scissor jack ond now I only have a broken scissor jack. Folded in half trying to jack up a bearer. Personally, I'd go for the 8T min....

  mate - I am not 'The Hulk' so I stop windin' if the floor ain't liftin'. One of the advantages of scissor jacks is they fail gracefully (ie: they bend and/ or strip the gears) - but ya gotta keep your eyes open and your ears keened. I wasn't recommending a scissor jack at all - in fact the 8T or 10T - and I have also seen too keen users create cracks and other problems by using a powerful jack without enough care. But really just saying as always it's 'horses for courses', but of course ya gotta be a judge of the horse flesh to pick a winner eh (or be in on the setup!)! 
My 20T jacks are rippers - bought by my Dah in the 60s US-made 4-stage Walkers and I can't see them dying any time soon had new seals in the 90s although as a safety replacement not because they were leaking.

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## stevoh741

Just pointing out that I personally think your chancing risking possible (great) injury by using a jack too small for the job. BTW never said anything about your physique for all I know you could look like mr burns (a joke for those humer challanged). Also, just so you don't think I am the hulk, it lifted then failed....lucky the post was still there for the bearer to rest back on.....

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## Bloss

Point taken - and that's a good reason to stick with hydraulics - they will not lift more than their design capacity.

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## ThornyBob

G'day, 
Thanks for all the comments team, great  :Smilie:  
Went around with the water level today, variation over datum went from +14mm to -30mm, not really that bad. Worst bearer looks to have 18mm variation over 4 metres, this is in the zone of what I believe are the highest roof loads, and, unfortunately, where the depression is in the soil that I mentioned in the first post. This spot is going to need additional support. 
Reckon I'll aim to make the bearers reasonably straight at this stage and see how that affects the internal visible movement. There are a few cracks in the outside walls that don't seem to have moved much in the about seven years that we've been here. 
How level the place was when it was erected is of course a mystery. 
cheers,
Bob

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## KBA

Hi
Thornybob 
you know me from another site :Smilie:  Bob 
I have done a little bit of restumping over the years and usually used a heavy bottle style screw jacK as it lifts in small increments. I also used a 10 ton hydraulic jack, but find you have to be a bit careful and listen as you pump it up, as sometimes it cracks walls very quickly. 
Also have an 8 tonne hydraulic I picked up in Tasmania while lifting the front section of my daughters house frame as i needed more jacks to support the weatherboard wallplates evenly as I replaced the rotted bearers. 
Regards 
Mate 
ken :Smilie:

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## ThornyBob

G'day, 
ordered some 12t units from here KMate Commercial - 12 Ton hydraulic car truck bottle jack Thought to mix and match and get a mix of 8t & 12t, but what the heck they're only $10 difference in price, might as well just have the bigger ones. 
Thanks again for the input. 
Cheers,
Bob

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## Helen Jones

Hi I have just found out that I have to underpin the front of my 80 year old double brick terrace. I was thinking of using the uretek method. Has anyone any comments on the viability of this method versus the more traditional methods?

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## Bloss

Do a search on uretek on this site - plenty of posts discussing pros & cons. Works but not cheap I think would be the consensus.

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## Grunt_au

> BTW - Glad you picked up on the incorrect comment about stumps in a 'brick veneer' not being load bearing. In fact it is the stumps in a full brick house that are much less likely to be load-bearing (but might still be!). The external skin is not an indicator - the roof structure is, but even then the only way to know is to look at the as-built structure of the specific building (not simply the plans!) - and know what you are seeing when you look! 
> Roof trusses can often mean that internal walls are non-load bearing, but not always as some roof layouts mean loads are taken down on internal walls. Except for a few any house built prior to the early 1960s will have a conventional roof and so stumps will be under load-bearing internal walls - brick veneer or not.

  Yes, of course, I should have said "MAY" not be load bearing. One word makes a big difference.  :Redface:   Thanks for the correction.

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## ThornyBob

G'day, 
just thought I'd come back in for an update. 
Seeing as the outside footings are a bit up and down here and there I decided to "follow the flow". I put string lines along each bearer, from end to end, and I am levelling against those rather than trying to get the whole floor back to "0". 
Also glad that the jack suppliers ran out of the 12t units and gave me a 16t in lieu of one of them cos there has been a couple tough spots, lesson here, get the biggest ones you can afford assuming that they'll fit where you want to use them. 
Other thing I discovered is it's a mongrel moving the jacks, packers and stuff around so I've made a little billycart to help me out. 
cheers,
Bob

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