# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  new Braemar ducted heating problem.

## Bobby Brown

We have just had a braemar ducted heater installed in our 12sq 2 bed house  (TH320 3.7* 18kW 8 points in ceiling) and Ive noticed that the temperature fluctuates enough to really bug me. We set it to 21C and then end up in this cycle of feeling cold so bump it up to 23C and then back to 19C when it gets too hot.  
Why cant we just set it to 21C and have a reasonably stable amount of warmth? Is there something wrong with it? Did we make a mistake installing in the ceiling?  
I cannot contact the installer as they are impossible to deal with.

----------


## plum

I would agree that it is a problem with ceiling installs, ceiling fans may help to circulate heat a bit better rather than it accumulating up high in the room.

----------


## Bobby Brown

> I would agree that it is a problem with ceiling installs, ceiling fans may help to circulate heat a bit better rather than it accumulating up high in the room.

  I would have thought most heating systems accumulate heat up high in the room? Its been suggested to me that if the blower on ceiling systems are powerful enough they can heat on the way down as well as on the way back up but I agree fans would be a good idea. 
Im wondering if the braemar defaults to a lower temperature trigger to turn the system back on which is too low in our case as we notice the chill returning to the room. Maybe I can adjust this temperature drop. Of course this means it might turn on and off more frequently. 
does anyone have a service manual for a TH320 they can send me?

----------


## joez

I would have thought the controller would be the part that turns the unit on/off with temperature fluctuations. With some luck there might be a sensitivity adjustment. 
Is TH320 the model of the heating unit ? If so is there a model number for the controler anywhere? 
joez

----------


## watson

Have you checked the Brivis Installers Manual in the Library???

----------


## Bobby Brown

> Have you checked the Brivis Installers Manual in the Library???

  Hi Watson, Im after the Braemar installers manual, cant find it in the library. 
Does anyone have a copy they can forward me?

----------


## watson

OOPS..........all words starting with "b"..........sorry mate.

----------


## krico

Where is your thermostat located? Is it centrally located? It may not be getting an accurate temp reading?  
Krico

----------


## sundancewfs

> Hi Watson, Im after the Braemar installers manual, cant find it in the library. 
> Does anyone have a copy they can forward me?

  
Hold on and I'll have a rummage around the forums...... I sure i saw it here somewhere...

----------


## sundancewfs

Here is the link to the owners manuals Owner's Manuals 
I'm sure the installers manuals were kicking around somewhere at one time.... 
My choice of a course of action (if you are unable to get any joy from your installer) would be to contact Braemar directly. I have found them very helpful. These days any company worth its salt would be keen to know that customers of their products are happy and satisfied with the product. Obviously if the installer has done something that doesn't match the requirements for a successful installation then they may not be able to directly do anything about it, but they may be able to suggest a solution.

----------


## droog

Being a Braemar it should be using a SpectroLink controller. The controller shows the temperature. 
Are you saying that the temprature on the controller shows lower than the set temperature but the heater is not starting ? or is the temperature on the controller at or above the set temperature ? 
If the controller is at or above the set temperature it will not call the heater to heat the room and may just need to be relocated to a spot where it reads the room temperature correctly. 
Or it may be you have a single controller in a separate room ? Do you have a zoned system ? 
Let me know some further details, I can send you some of the manuals that I have but need to know where the problem is first.
Regards Dave.

----------


## ozheat

Bobby.
Re: your PM, sorry don't have an installers manual for the braemar as I haven't installed systems for about 10 years now but I do system repairs and maintence regularly.
I suspect the majority of your problem is that it is a in ceiling system, as pointed out with the previous posters. 
I am going to make a few assumptions as you haven't posted complete details; 
Ceiling systems will always take longer to heat due to the need to force the heat down when the heat wants to rise. 
A slow fan speed has a hard time circulating heated air around so it will slowly fill the room with heat top to bottom, you can comfirm this by standing on a chair and you can feel considerible heat difference.
The fan speed may have been turned down to get rid of roaring outlets where these outlets are the first outlets near the heater, I used to run BTOs backwards or use longer duct runs for these outlets rather than turning down the fan.  Your fan speed may be too low to distribute/force air around your room especially the outlets at the end of the duct run, also the system may not be balanced. 
The biggest mistake in a ceiling system IMHO is having the return air on the ceiling as it just cycles the hottest air in the house instead of heating the coldest air in the house as in when you have a low level return air installed in a cupboard but most people don't want to give up the space in cupboards.  The next best is to have it high/mid level in the top of the cupboard with the grill mounted verticle.
Polished floorboards and especially tiled floors are bad for heating as they are the last things to be heated, tiles especially will try to cool the room down making the low level(living level) cool compared to the rest of the house.  To partly overcome this if you have either of these flooring options is to put a rug on the floor where your couch/chairs are located. 
Heating themostats aren't precision thermometers and DO NOT indicate the temperture in your rooms, 21degC on the themostat doesn't mean 21deg anywhere else in your house except at the the themostat location and at that level in the house.  It is a relative temperture, I used to tell people to think the number on the display as a setting not a temperture just like you set the volume on your tv.  Set the thermo low say 18 and wait a few cycles of the heater going on and off, if in your living area it is too cold still raise it up one deg on the thermo, let it cycle again and then continue doing that till you find a COMFORTABLE temp you desire.  It will take about a week to find that happy setting. 
Don't overheat your house or you will certinaly pay for it in your gas and electric bills.  Remember it take ~6-10% more gas to heat up maintain every degree in your house, the higher the delta-t(difference in inside and outside temps) the quicker the heat loss dispite insulation in your house.   You don't want to heat up your house so everyone walks around in shorts and t-shirt in the during winter, maintain the house so it is comfortable when everyone is atleast in long sleeves and pants.

----------


## Bobby Brown

System is a TH320 which is the simpler of the braemars without zoning (standard LCD thermostat - net spectrolink), according to the specs it produces 630 l/s of air, which is on average 80 l/s per ceiling duct (and yes the return grill is in the ceiling). 
I have been told that these systems are more efficient than floor grill ducted systems as they heat the room as air is forced down and then back up again.... I image this is the case only if the fans are powerful enough.... is 630 enough... for a BV house with 2.7m ceilings??? 
What I think may be happening is that when the system is set to 21C the trigger temperature is dropping too low (say 18C for example) before the heater turns back on and then stays on too long and the room gets to say 23C. So the constant cycling of the air temperature from 18 to 23C and back gets annoying. 
This may not be the case where the thermostat is and may be a symptom of a poorly designed installation. But Id still like to try and get my hands on the installers manual to see what the heater trigger temperatures are. 
ps: does this heater need some kind of external drainage pipe for condensation?

----------


## droog

I cannot be certain of the condensate drain but I believe the TH series does not have one.
I do not have any manuals for the TH series and I only have the spectrolink controller manuals so am unable to help in that regard. As a note the spectrolink does not have any significant hysteresis, ie it will call for heat below the set temperature and switch off at the set temp. 
Regards Dave

----------


## droog

> What I think may be happening is that when the system is set to 21C the trigger temperature is dropping too low (say 18C for example) before the heater turns back on and then stays on too long and the room gets to say 23C. So the constant cycling of the air temperature from 18 to 23C and back gets annoying.  
> Read more: http://www.renovateforum.com/f193/ne...#ixzz1yBqJ2O3p

  If you want to test this theory do the following:
With the house cold, say 15C, turn the heater on and set to 20C. The display on the controller should revert to the room temperature, 15C, after a short time. If it does then the controller is displaying the actual room temperature and you can use the controller display to see if your theory above is correct.

----------


## cgbrittain

Hi, I came across your question as I seemed to be having issues with my Braemar heating up to the temp I have set it at. However I have just climbed in the roof and discovered one of the insulation ducts has come away from a three way join so about to repair that. Hopefully that is my issue.
Anyway, I have found a copy of the installation manual for :
Braemar Ecostar Gas Duced Heaters TH3 - TH4 - TH5.
Let me know if you need me to scan it for you! 
Catherine   

> We have just had a braemar ducted heater installed in our 12sq 2 bed house  (TH320 3.7* 18kW 8 points in ceiling) and Ive noticed that the temperature fluctuates enough to really bug me. We set it to 21C and then end up in this cycle of feeling cold so bump it up to 23C and then back to 19C when it gets too hot.  
> Why cant we just set it to 21C and have a reasonably stable amount of warmth? Is there something wrong with it? Did we make a mistake installing in the ceiling?  
> I cannot contact the installer as they are impossible to deal with.

----------


## Bobby Brown

Attached are the installers manuals...  :2thumbsup:  
maybe Noel would be so kind as to transfer to the library....

----------


## watson

Thanks heaps mate............Chrisp ( the new Mod) hasn't done that before so he's going to have a go.

----------


## chrisp

Thanks for the installation manuals!  Both have been added to the forum Library ... and thanks for the opportunity to practice placing and indexing the files into the library. 
BTW we appreciate all sorts of manuals for inclusion into the library.  Please keep sending them in.

----------

