# Forum Home Renovation Paving  calling on plumbers/brickies/pavers

## celeste

Hi all 
Just a few Q's re my current reno - I always think of things when its to late to ring anyone  :Doh:    *for brickies / plumbers* 
I am re- arranging the bathroom, installing a longer bath and changing it's direction. I have been pondering wether to do a wooden frame or brick ?
I have found info on wooden ones ( I have done a wooden one B4 for a bath and shower - 17yrs ago - memory is a bit foggy on how I did it exactly). I cannot find any info on brick.
the bath will run along a wall that is 1800mm, the bath is 1565mm, so I will require a hob with a ledge at one end of approx 200mm - need this end hollow to run the original bath plumbing along the wall to service the new vanity - the old vanity plumbing will be used for the bath. I am pondering extending the bricks so I can sit the vanity on top hiding the plumbing under it ( pipes run a ground level thru the brick structure and then up the wall) 
Q: for a brick one do I just do a box  (to the same height as the instructions state for a wooden frame)  up against the bathroom wall with an extra wall at the end of the bath - cover the longer end with water proof cement sheet - tile top and wall, fix the levels on top with tile adhesive.? if so, can I use fast wall bricks? and what cement? is there any pre-mixed that will do it? I have attached a quick sketch of how I think it should go. 
Also,
- at the corners do I inerlock the bricks of one wall to the other?
- all the bath install instuctions I looked at had either bricks or pieces of wood proped under the bath or some mentioned sand/cement, insulation ?
- the floor has been sunk on one side by about 60mm for the shower and the bath - as I am relocating the bath what product should I use to fix the floor level , where the bath used to be. area is 700mm x what ever the bath is 1000-1200mm? 
PAVERS 
I am relaying the pavers 600 x 600 concrete - patio area they are not to bad just scruffy and a couple broken and weeds - thought I would reuse them, but use a pattern with out cutting, there are some cut that I can use. 
Q. as I am relaying them can I just clean up the area checking levels, lay 40 - 50mm sand and relay, compact. Leaving out the digging down and roadbase? 
Q I have been pondering a internal border of pebbles - I was thinking I could - lay 1 st row of 600x600 up aginst a hard edge (house) then place wooden spacers of 100mm (where I want pebbles) then lay more pavers, reinforce edges with concrete - compact - pull out spacers and fill with pebbles - sweep sand over. Is this right?  
Q do I need cement in the pebble spaces?
What cement can I use to reinforces edges and for pebbles if needed.? 
Gee I been ponder a bit the last couple of days :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   
Thanks in advance 
Celeste

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## celeste

Hi all 
OK no body wants to talk to me - that's ok.   :Frown:  
Celeste

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## markclad

Re your paving.  
Q 1 - If you lifting and relaying them the road base may already be there and the sand, just lift and tidy up and re screen the sand, only needs to be 25mm thick. 
Q2 - I would bed the paver on a sand cement mix so sticks in position. Or going into Q3 You could mix sand cement mix put in the spaces then put pebble into sand cement mix and clean off excess sand and cement(like do for exposed aggregate) with dust pan brush and sponge - this would fix paver into position plus you would have to do your sweep of sand. 
hope this helps you a bit.

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## bricks

Cleste>> sorry to not notice before but you not in the bathroom section so i missed it.  
With your bath, do not support the bath via the edges unless the baths i install have fibreglass matting on the bottom and adjustable frame legs i sit it on concrete. minimum 40 mm. 
I make a frame for the bath surround first/ or brick it after.
if i were you id brick it after.
youll need about 4-5 bags of mortar ( not concrete the little rocks can puncture the bath.)
I wrap the bath waste with foam to about 400mm block out to connect it later.
Mix your mud not too runny, firm is better.
wet the concrete on the ground with a paintbrush and water.
put the mud on the ground to about 50 mm above final position of bath. 
Put the bath down put some bubble wrap in it , stand in it and wriggle it down to height.
Push the excess mud around the base and sides.
Brick around it after you connect it. ( I use iplex flexi dingers) they are easy but you have to keep the fall on them.

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## celeste

> Cleste>> sorry to not notice before but you not in the bathroom section so i missed it.  
> With your bath, do not support the bath via the edges unless the baths i install have fibreglass matting on the bottom and adjustable frame legs i sit it on concrete. minimum 40 mm. 
> I make a frame for the bath surround first/ or brick it after.
> if i were you id brick it after.
> youll need about 4-5 bags of mortar ( not concrete the little rocks can puncture the bath.)
> I wrap the bath waste with foam to about 400mm block out to connect it later.
> Mix your mud not too runny, firm is better.
> wet the concrete on the ground with a paintbrush and water.
> put the mud on the ground to about 50 mm above final position of bath. 
> ...

  Hi Bricks 
Thanks Bricks  :2thumbsup:   
Do to the lack of info I have been able to get on how to brick in a bath, I have decided to leave it to the plumber. :Biggrin:   
I have put in a bath B4 with 2 sides bedded into the wall and 2 sides wood frame. brick walls and wood floor. that was easy. 
But, this one I wanted to have a lip of tiles all around with approx. 200mm hob at one end (the re-arranged plumbing and electrics will run thru this to the new vanity). I have 3 sides which are brick walls and I have the added problem of where the old bath was (along the right hand wall) it has been sunk into the floor along with the shower. (you have about 900mm of floor along the right hand side of the room drops about 60mm. 
I have to sort out what to do there as well. :Confused:   
So, at this stage I have put it back into the think about it later basket, I will get the bath delivered so I have exact measurements and get my plumber in and see what he suggests.  I think also, I haven't played with bricks and cement yet  :Cry:  - I tend to put new tasks off to the last minute.  
Celeste

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## bricks

Having a hob right around your bath is easier to clean and i think looks more classy if you have the space. 
Bricking a bath is the same in principle as for a wall. Buy pre mix mortar and mix it on the dry side.
Just remamber that you dont support the the bath via the edges. But you do need to support the edges because people use them when they get in and out. I support the edges by bricking up to the bottom leaving a gap for tile and villa board. Then i seal with good quality silicone, if it still moves too much fill the cavity under the lip with expanda foam every foot or so to give it strength. 
When you do a all round hob, water proof it extreamly well go overboard ( because of splashes) and make sure your top surface doesnt fall back to a wall or corner ( puddles ).  
I also install two vents to allow airflow under the bath, if your bath goes to an outside wall you can put both there to keep the inside bathroom looking neat.

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## pawnhead

All good advice from markclad and bricks there. You should be able to do it yourself if you're handy celeste. I think that two vents are compulsory aren't they bricks? 
I'd just cut the bath into the wall on two sides so the lip is past the face of the wall. Make the cut really straight and level so the bath lip sits on something solid. You may get puddling there by running a shelf all the way around, but that's not a huge deal if you prefer it that way. Run the waterproof membrane down over the lip and tile over it. Silicone the last bit. I'd gauge the bath height to suit a full tile at the floor and a full tile at your hob height. You'll only have to cut a small amount off the tiles that go down the wall and over the lip. Waterproof the whole lot with a membrane and membrane up a strip laid under the bath lip. It directs water back to the bathroom and floor waste rather than under your bath. As brick says some foam under the edge to support the bath would be a good idea, then just slide the tile under and silicone the gap. If you're not having a flat shelf across the front (it's not shown in the drawing) then just brick up allowing for thickness of membrane, adhesive, and tile. You can allow for render if you're not confident about laying perfectly straight brickwork. You'll have to lay the bricks on edge and you may have to cut them narrower as they approach the top. Mud up under the edge then membrane all the way up under the lip before you tile up flush with the bath edge and silicone the last small gap. Nail wall ties to the adjacent walls with concrete nails (or spaghetti and screw) on each course of brickwork to key it into the existing.
The shelf at the end will have to be supported solid so you may have to lay two skins of brickwork there after you've run your pipework. Membrane over everything including a small lip up under the bath edge. 
You could do it all in timber and villaboard but since the walls are brick I'd keep it all the same. It's advisable to silicone internal corners of your tiles with white silicone rather than grouting but that's not always done. It doesn't look as good when the silicone gets old, but it doesn't crack and fall out as grout sometimes does. 
As for the old floor that you have to fill, if it's a concrete slab then just dilute some bondcrete, paint it on, or you could just wet the slab, don't drown it, and sprinkle a bit of dry cement on, but not too much. and screed in a bed of river sand and cement about 4:1 mixed fairly dry. Allow for a tile bed with fall to the floor waste when you calculate your bath height. 
That's about all I can think of for now but I may edit if I think of something else.

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## bricks

They are in S.A. but having said that, i dont often see them, some owners dont like them thats why ext wall is good if you can get to it. 
I always put them in some owners cover them once im gone im sure of it.  
What ever the requirement- they are a good idea to prevent dampness in walls under the bath.

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## celeste

Hi everyone 
Thanks for the advice - I am building up the courage to tackle it. :Eek:   
I tackled one of the other things on my contemplation list today - I replaced the rotten veranda post  - hired an accrow prop $5.00, set it up, removed the old post, attached a saddle to the concrete, then popped up the new post (which I had pre cut at mitre10) - I jammed it in there tight tho, as I have asbestos lining on the veranda ceiling and I did not want to fiddle with that :Eek:  I have a roofing guy coming to repoint the roof, so I will get him to lift a tile or 2 so I can fix it further from the top. :2thumbsup:   All that worrying and it was easy peasy - tho the accrow prop is a little on the heavy side. 
Celeste :2thumbsup:

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## pawnhead

> They are in S.A. but having said that, i dont often see them, some owners dont like them thats why ext wall is good if you can get to it.

  Yes, they were compulsory when I installed my bath here some 25yrs ago now and I installed them, but as you say, it's very rare to see them except in older bathrooms. Of course they could be vented to an exterior wall or an under floor space I suppose, but quite often they're just neglected. 
It sounds like you're very handy and not scared to get your hands dirty celeste.  :2thumbsup:

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## bricks

Just a question for you pawny, have you heard / seen sometimes the small channel that runs under the bath and through to the outside wall like a drain, I have seen that where there arnt tvents but never both together. Is it an alternate method for keeping the space dry, everyone Ive talk to has'nt the foggiest? 
(im reasonably sure its not allowed now)

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## pawnhead

Haven't seen anything like that. You wouldn't want water under there, especially if it was pineboard sheet flooring but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of cases of leaky membranes that would allow it to get in. If it was slab and brickwork on a ground floor then the consequences would be minimal I'd say. If there was a lot getting in then it could soak the slab and spread dampness though. It could conceivably break down the membrane adhesion interface but I doubt the tiles would lift. I've never membraned under a bath though but I suppose that you could, and put a dry waste in there of some sort.

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