# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Sanding tips for Merbau deck

## dan76n

So I decided to have a crack at restoring my deck and front porch back to new so I spent a whole day punching the dome nails which was a great success.
today I hired a large push orbital sander from bunnings and did the sanding.
The problem I'm having is that the areas that have been exposed to the elements aren't cleaning up as well as the undercover areas.
i started with 80grit paper but that was way too slow so I purchased a sheet of 40grit and 20grit.
the 20grit works best but still taking a long time and not working too well on the really weathered spots.
i was thinking of grabbing a drum sander from kennards first thing in the morning and use that before running the orbital over it again with the 80 grit. 
Any ideas?
decks add up to just under 35mtrs.
Also, Bunnings nows how to hit you. The sandpaper for the sander is $20 a sheet (double sided). So the sandpaper cost me more than the 24hr hire of the sander.

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## jimj

L
  I sand decks weekly to allow me to keep my beer fridge stocked. I have tried many methods of sanding & this is what works the best for me. I sand with a 90 kg Lagler belt sander & use only blue SIA zirconium belts. I use between 40-80 grit depending on the decks condition. I sand only with the grain. Even with this machine & abrasives it will still miss a lot of areas due to cupping,uneven boards & all of the surrounding edges,& around objects like vertical posts.
After I put this bloody heavy sanding machine away in my truck I still have a lot of sanding to do.
I hand sand out every board with a festool rotex 150mm random orbital sander connected to a festool dust extractor ( fancy name for a vacuum cleaner). I hand sand working my way in between the nails or screws as a guide from one side of the deck to the other. Most decks are sanded with 40 grit on the big machine & 80 grit with the rotex.  
I can generally do a 40-50 m2 deck in a big day. I have a 2000.00 Sandivac machine in my garage that hasn't seen any work for 5 years as I found it didn't do what I hope for or what was required to remove the little stuff the big machine missed.  
I pay around $10.00 for a single SIA 40 grit belt & around 75 cents for a single rotex sanding disk. I am not saying this is any fun. It is, however, what I have found works for me to achieve the result I am after & hopefully have the folks who are keeping my beer fridge stocked HAPPY.  
The problem with this is it is highly unlikely that this gear is available to hire. BY far, the Rotex is the true workhorse &essential. Everyone(including me) chokes on their weet bix when they read the sticker price. Around $900.00. Well I don't anymore. This sander has the grunt to remove the worst crap on timber& yet the finesse to sand off a table to 200 grit or higher & leave a glass smooth finish.
I have completely destroyed 2 & have another 3 in my shed. I have one that is starting to give up the ghost & will be buying a new one soon. IMO the key is that it has 720 watts. Most of the RO sanders have only say 240 watts. So when you put any pressure on them to do the grunt work you just stop them as they can't handle the pressure applied. 
What MAY work is that bunnings sell an Ozito RO with 400 watts for around $50. I have never used one so I can't say what would happen but for a $50 punt it MAY do the trick. I would still have some type of vacuum system set up as it produces a lot of dust. You may get by with sanding& cleaning. Although fiddly it may be OK. I would ditch the useless bag that comes with the sander & tape the vacuum hose over the outlet pipe on the sander. For this to work you need abrasives that have matching holes to the sander. 
When I am hand sanding I sand with the disk elevated at the back about10mm so only the front edge is touching. Once all of the crap is gone & you are seeing nice wood then put the sanding head flat to smooth off the surface. Just do each board between nails the same way and EVENTUALLY the deck is sanded.
Once I get the deck sanded & think or hope it is done I hose off all of the deck with fresh water. No chemicals are ever used or needed as I have exposed a new layer of fresh timber. The water will reveal easily anything you have missed. I often miss an area here or there that is revealed. I will blow dry just that area & sand it out.   
If you have done a good job the deck will feel smooth to the bare feet & look like a lovely hardwood floor inside a house when it is wet. Your deck will have a red-brown colour with small yellow flecks running with the grain. 
Now the real fun begins sifting through all of the coating  product hype, promises &mythology & deciding on which way to go. 
Good luck 
jimj   restore-a-deck.com.au

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## shauck

Would love to test a Rotex and compare to the Makita I have. I recently have sanded a couple of decks. One at my place which is old hardwood with some paint on it and greying a lot. I found the orbital did stuff all. I used a belt sander, again Makita with coarse grit belts. Went through quite a few belts, changing belts when it starts taking too long to get a result. I found it was pretty easy to work with the cupping and unevenness of this old deck. Wouldn't want to do it all day every day but it worked well enough for me. I'm not super fussy about perfection as it's a walking surface not furniture.

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## jimj

Shauck 
You are more than welcome to try one of mine. Let me know the next time you are traveling through the sunshine coast. The only requirement is to leave enough time to meet & have a  talk with the beer fridge.!!! 
jimj  
  PS forgot to mention in my earlier posting that the round head of the rotex doesn't sand out 90 degree corners very well. It helps to have a triangular sander. I have found most $30.00 delta sanders will do a  job. I use a 90 mm rotex that has the option of a delta head or a circular head.

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## shauck

> Shauck 
> You are more than welcome to try one of mine. Let me know the next time you are traveling through the sunshine coast. The only requirement is to leave enough time to meet & have a  talk with the beer fridge.!!!

  For sure. That'd be 5 seconds of sanding and......

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## dan76n

Thanks Jim, just purchased the Ozito and will see how it goes. I have one of those multi tools that sound like 20 mini hammer drill going at once. I will try that for the corners.
Will post some pics this arvo when sanding complete.

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## jimj

That's great Dan. It will be interesting to see if it can help you. 
Shauck,  That will work I can have a beer open in under 5 seconds

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## METRIX

> L 
> The problem with this is it is highly unlikely that this gear is available to hire. BY far, the Rotex is the true workhorse &essential. Everyone(including me) chokes on their weet bix when they read the sticker price. Around $900.00. Well I don't anymore. This sander has the grunt to remove the worst crap on timber& yet the finesse to sand off a table to 200 grit or higher & leave a glass smooth finish.
> I have completely destroyed 2 & have another 3 in my shed. I have one that is starting to give up the ghost & will be buying a new one soon. IMO the key is that it has 720 watts. Most of the RO sanders have only say 240 watts. So when you put any pressure on them to do the grunt work you just stop them as they can't handle the pressure applied.

  Hi Jim, 
Spoke to you a while ago regarding a deck refurb job I was quoting on, your information was very valuable, we spoke about your Rotex, and I couldn't justify the cost of one as my Metabo was still going well, since then the Metabo has given up something inside and doesn't do what it used to do (still works but nowhere near as well as it used to). 
We spoke about the lack of wattage on the majority of 150mm RO so I purchased a Bosch Blue GEX150 Turbo, this one has 600W motor (Metabo was 450W), in the course mode it removes 5 times what the polishing mode does, it does a very nice job in polishing mode. 
This one has a lot more power than the Metabo, I reckon I could stand on this one and it will still keep going, might be worth a look into these as they are slightly cheaper than a Rotex (half price), only complaint I think the Metabo had a more comfortable handle situation than the Bosch, but it's like anything if your used to the Rotex and like the way they work might be best to stick to them. 
If you would like to try one out I might be able to send one up for you to test as I have a spare in my workshop currently (obviously it would need to come back)  :Wink: , it would be interesting to get your feedback on it as I have never used a Rotex. 
I noticed Makita now have a 750W RO BO6040, but the price is close to the Festool so I would stick to that, The Bosch is under $400 so not sure how it would compare to the Rotex.

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## jimj

Thanks Metrix 
I wasn't aware of the 2 new sanders on the market and yes it would be fun to try them. It would seem that the both Bosch & Makita have recognised the need for more grunt when needing to sand aggressively. My first rotex was a 125mm with 500 watts & I thought it was pretty good. Then they brought out the 150mm with over 700 watts & the power & performance was significant. 
My local tool shop will often have their reps supply me with something for testing. I will see if I can source one to test & maybe report back to the forum. 
The problem with Festool is once you have used their tool you tend to get sucked in & become a festool junkie-groupie. I have since gone into poverty with their planer,jigsaw,planex dropsaw,ras,domino etc,etc,etc. 
I agree cost is a major factor but the 150  rotex is a special tool once you get used to its characteristics. I very stupidly and NEVER again sanded off a merbau deck wthat was built with the bottom ribs  on the top side. I did all of the surrounding edges with the rotex. It took quite a lot of effort but it did the job. 
I would become really worried if festool start brewing beer.

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## dan76n

I did some sanding today with the Ozito and wasn't really impressed. I Found my old 230w GMC sheet sander does a better job. Also the pads loose grip to the Velcro and fall off after 15 or so minutes of usage.
will give it another crack tomorrow.

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## Marc

Hi Dan, which orbital sander did you hire from Bunnings? I can only come up with a drum sander for hire. 
Sorry about the Ozito failure, I hope you can make it work, otherwise give it back, I personally have zero faith in Ozito. May be that blue Bosh is the go.

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## dan76n

Not sure on the brand of orbital, I will check today as I need to get a set of knee pads. I think the sanding pads are 450mm x 350mm. 
Re the Ozito, I've never used a round orbital sander so don't know what to compare it to but I know I cant put too much load on it without stopping the disco from rotating. It will still vibrate though.

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## Marc

This looks a lot like a drum sander For Hire: Floor Sander 4 Hour Rate I/N 5470320 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## dan76n

Yeah they had about 4 of those but the guys said they won't hire them out to sand decks as apparently the deck gaps damage the drum. Not sure if that's true though as Kennards tried to hire me one.

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## jimj

Dan  Thanks for the update on the Ozito. It was a $50.00 punt. I have a shed full of dud tools.  I went through a number of hand sanders both RO & handheld belt before I succumbed to Festool. Mainly due to the sticker price. So much of this depends on how much & what type of sanding needs to be done now & maybe into the future.  Hiring drum,belt sanders can also have its issues. It does take some practice to get the hang of the sanding without creating a number of dip marks etc. Trying to not run over the cord is another issue. Add sanding around a pool & can almost gurantee the cord will somehow find its way into the water.  I think that even if you manage to sand this off with a large machine you will still have a lot of hand sanding to do around all of the edges as well as the high & low spots on the boards. They may try to hire you a floor edger. I bought a new lagler edger for 2500.00 9 years ago. Used it for 2 jobs & put it in the shed. The problem is edgers are NOT RO. So moving one sideways across the grain & even with the grain will leave swirl marks much like an angle grinder. Add the marks it makes on the timber when the edger wheel hits the gap between the boards & dips & takes a chunk out and you can make quite a mess. If you are happy with swirl marks that might work but I don't want nor do my customers want them. Yes you can come back & sand the swirls out. I just use the RO to sand& I am not sanding my edges out twice.   
OK I am not trying to steer you to a major investment However with the RO you can achieve a lot on your deck,You own it and are not under any time higher rental pressures and you will have a magic sanding tool for many years to come. Quite a few decks I work on have some very crappy grey-black wooden tables. O will often ask if they would like me to sand out the top for no charge. Most will say can you salvage this. Generally it may take me some 45 minutes to sand off from 60-80& finish on 120. They can't believe how good this comes back. Its not hard & the concept is easy. Get back to a new layer of timber & get it coated with something asap. Exactly the same idea doing decks.  Metrix has posted 2 others to look at. It may be worth considering. I can say that somehere down the line in years you may need to do this or another deck. That's just the nature of wood in the outdoors.
So often I think it is just a lot easier to have tiles& concrete. Thankfully, where I live, I am surrounded by folks who don't think like me & they like to keep my beer fridge stocked full. 
good luck 
 I also wear out 80.00 knee pads about every 4 months or so.

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## dan76n

Thanks Jim,
I've been using the Ozito again this morning with a 40grit and it's not doing too bad.
the finish is still pretty smooth so if I was to do the whole deck with 40grit and leave it will it cause me any issues compared to using 80 grit?

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## shauck

This is why I suggest a belt sander. With a Rotex you can do the job with an orbital but unless you have that quality, you'll get nowhere fast with a standard or cheap orbital sander. I find the belt sander makes shorter work of it.

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## dan76n

I am using a belt sander on the really grey boards too but the finish is a lot rougher so needs a sand over.
I'm also finding fresh sandpaper is a huge difference. Bloody bunnings paper doesn't last long. 
Ohh and also off topic. My wife got me a Pebble smart watch for Xmas and its awsome. I feel it vibrate while sanding and can take a quick look at it to see if it's an email, SMS or phone call.
If u tradies don't have one its worth looking at. 
Also, is it good idea to sand the edges of any boards that loose the roundness?

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## jimj

If you started out using the 80 grit that may have been a lot of the issue. Yes I would start with 40 & it is my usual grit I start with on most. I still think that after the 40 I would go quickly over that with 80. This will only take about 25% of the effort the 40 took. As soon as raw wood has water or any type of coating applied the wood fibres want to stand up. So even though the 40 may feel good it will roughen up more with any coating. the 80 finish will also roughen up but not as bad.  
The quality of the abrasives is also critical & you can only get so much from a sheet & then it is just not doing much but tiring you. I go through boxes of 100 very quickly & I only change when I have to but you do reach a point where by changing you will get the job done better & faster & the small extra cost in abrasives is not that great in the overall scheme. 
Especially when it is done & the first cold beer is downed & your back & knees say thanks a lot.

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## Marc

Hi JJ, where can you get quality abrasive as opposed to bunnings/ mitre 10 stuff? what brands?

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## Gaza

Tool shops have good range  
Or  
Sandpaper man online store   http://www.thesandpaperman.com.au 
He sponsors the woodwork forum   
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## jimj

Marc, 
The big chains don't really carry the abrasives that I have found will do what I need on decks. My local tool shop orders specifically for me a european brand called Klingspor the label on my 40 grit box reads PS 33CK   They are a beige coloured 150mm & are designed to remove paint,varnish& filler. Festool papers are also very good. They come in white to remove coatings & red to work on bare timber. The Festool Brilliant2 40 grit also does a very good job on coated timber like Sikkens, Intergrain DWD & Spa& deck, aquadeck & ultra deck.I carry a variety of both brands, grits with paper to do coatings & bare wood. I have also found SIA & Hermes make good abrasives. 
If you have a specialist tool store close they can probably get some of these. My local tool shop orders 1000 sheets at a time for me to get the best price. I seem to be the only one who uses them so they hold them in the back store room & I just go in and grab as I need. Usually walking out with 2-3 hundred discs at a time. 
Hope this may be of some help 
jimj

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## METRIX

> Marc, 
> My local tool shop orders specifically for me a european brand called Klingspor the label on my 40 grit box reads PS 33CK   They are a beige coloured 150mm & are designed to remove paint,varnish& filler. 
> jimj

  I have used the same Klingspor for years, pick them up from ebay, 7 hole or 9 hole pattern available in 40 - 1200 grit, this guy also has smirdex which is nice paper as well.  150mm items - Get great deals on SANDING DISCS, BACK UP PADS items on eBay Stores!

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## jimj

Thanks Metrix 
I checked out the ebay site & pretty good prices. I pay $75 for a box of 100-40grit Klingspor so this site with postage is competitive. I will check out the smirdex as it is new to me. Always nice to find something new that can be of help.

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## Marc

Yes, e-bay store is the go.

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## METRIX

> Thanks Metrix 
> I checked out the ebay site & pretty good prices. I pay $75 for a box of 100-40grit Klingspor so this site with postage is competitive. I will check out the smirdex as it is new to me. Always nice to find something new that can be of help.

  Klingspore is German made (or it was)
Smirdex is made in Greece, but still very good, they do bulk postage deals, the 40grit is the most expensive.

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## Marc

I like the comment, "Smirdex is made in Greece ... _but still very good_​" ha ha

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## METRIX

> I like the comment, "Smirdex is made in Greece ... _but still very good_​" ha ha

  One would not think of Greece as a manufacturer of sandpaper, but doing a search has revealed some interesting exports from Greece. 
Export 1 2710  Refined Petroleum $11,811,725,366.76 35%  2 3004  Packaged Medicaments $1,064,618,053.74 3.1%  3 7606  Aluminium Plating $631,704,220.41 1.9%  4 0302  Non-fillet Fresh Fish $580,083,500.36 1.7%  5 5201  Raw Cotton $572,233,780.57 1.7%  6 7411  Copper Pipes $438,980,878.86 1.3%  7 1509  Pure Olive Oil $431,234,022.66 1.3%  8 2008  Other Processed Fruits and Nuts $422,066,541.08 1.2%  9 8544  Insulated Wire $411,013,986.92 1.2%  10 2005  Other Processed Vegetables $393,632,054.35 1.2%  11 0406  Cheese $359,141,214.87 1.1%  12 7214  Raw Iron Bars $348,115,083.92 1.0%  13 8901  Passenger and Cargo Ships $345,488,470.37 1.0%  14 2401  Raw Tobacco $315,388,977.02 0.93%  15 7601  Raw Aluminium $275,407,330.80 0.81%  16 2402  Rolled Tobacco $251,361,177.85 0.74%  17 7202  Ferroalloys $244,450,369.95 0.72%  18 2523  Cement $241,994,565.51 0.72%  19 4303  Furskin Apparel $237,944,728.37 0.70%  20 2711  Petroleum Gas $229,927,666.51 0.68%   
Import 1 2709  Crude Petroleum $14,386,246,815.67 24%  2 2710  Refined Petroleum $4,183,415,859.04 6.9%  3 3004  Packaged Medicaments $3,104,861,610.51 5.1%  4 8901  Passenger and Cargo Ships $2,424,605,881.23 4.0%  5 2711  Petroleum Gas $1,888,532,287.33 3.1%  6 8541  Semiconductor Devices $1,171,002,380.40 1.9%  7 8703  Cars $703,733,857.92 1.2%  8 0203  Pig Meat $544,250,998.85 0.90%  9 0201  Bovine Meat $519,597,829.83 0.86%  10 0406  Cheese $506,186,580.20 0.84%  11 8525  Broadcasting Equipment $444,153,414.55 0.73%  12 3901  Ethylene Polymers $441,962,596.37 0.73%  13 3002  Human or Animal Blood $423,763,630.85 0.70%  14 7403  Refined Copper $420,680,876.42 0.69%  15 8471  Computers $412,673,837.43 0.68%  16 7601  Raw Aluminium $406,938,554.15 0.67%  17 7208  Hot-Rolled Iron $381,288,231.56 0.63%  18 8708  Vehicle Parts $333,290,635.82 0.55%  19 8528  Video Displays $328,052,431.67 0.54%  20 8517  Telephones $309,824,894.81 0.51%    
Compared to AUS there is a strange thing in these figures,  
We export 11 billion in crude, but we import 20 billion of it
We export 13 billion in gas, but we also import 2 billion of it  
Export 1 2601  Iron Ore $54,397,172,452.59 22%  2 2701  Coal Briquettes $44,899,154,838.52 18%  3 2711  Petroleum Gas $13,796,575,688.77 5.5%  4 7108  Gold $13,530,505,402.17 5.4%  5 2709  Crude Petroleum $11,148,116,526.80 4.5%  6 1001  Wheat $7,026,672,029.07 2.8%  7 2603  Copper Ore $5,767,918,719.99 2.3%  8 7601  Raw Aluminium $3,627,134,021.00 1.5%  9 2818  Aluminium Oxide $3,565,074,733.23 1.4%  10 2710  Refined Petroleum $3,140,448,891.02 1.3%  11 3004  Packaged Medicaments $3,083,001,192.62 1.2%  12 0202  Frozen Bovine Meat $2,918,097,268.38 1.2%  13 7403  Refined Copper $2,904,713,747.72 1.2%  14 5101  Wool $2,707,567,187.32 1.1%  15 5201  Raw Cotton $2,660,569,164.10 1.1%  16 2204  Wine $2,137,995,679.86 0.86%  17 0201  Bovine Meat $1,943,103,342.47 0.78%  18 7502  Raw Nickel $1,785,283,945.36 0.72%  19 8703  Cars $1,771,021,547.65 0.71%  20 0204  Sheep and Goat Meat $1,734,150,046.90 0.70%    
Import 1 2709  Crude Petroleum $20,323,327,373.28 8.5%  2 8703  Cars $17,545,946,474.00 7.3%  3 2710  Refined Petroleum $15,247,107,635.72 6.3%  4 8704  Delivery Trucks $8,578,046,761.46 3.6%  5 3004  Packaged Medicaments $8,149,895,329.83 3.4%  6 8471  Computers $7,953,007,229.32 3.3%  7 7108  Gold $5,679,390,114.24 2.4%  8 8517  Telephones $3,112,909,051.50 1.3%  9 8429  Large Construction Vehicles $3,105,000,905.70 1.3%  10 4011  Rubber Tires $3,039,829,759.24 1.3%  11 8708  Vehicle Parts $2,780,065,345.05 1.2%  12 2711  Petroleum Gas $2,631,079,397.71 1.1%  13 8525  Broadcasting Equipment $2,313,125,298.17 0.96%  14 8430  Other Construction Vehicles $2,071,010,409.54 0.86%  15 9018  Medical Instruments $2,035,166,614.01 0.85%  16 8431  Excavation Machinery $1,814,597,808.67 0.76%  17 7308  Iron Structures $1,701,698,782.30 0.71%  18 8528  Video Displays $1,562,103,281.49 0.65%  19 9403  Other Furniture $1,500,878,492.71 0.62%  20 8479  Machinery Having Individual Functions $1,453,346,938.66 0.61%   
We export to the following 1 CHN  China $72,484,478,825.67 29%  2 JPN  Japan $48,950,655,904.92 20%  3 KOR  South Korea $20,784,541,680.83 8.4%  4 IND  India $13,110,129,763.79 5.3%  5 USA  United States $8,847,149,068.45 3.6%  6   Other Asia $7,769,768,655.00 3.1%  7 NZL  New Zealand $5,847,964,391.54 2.3%  8 HKG  Hong Kong $5,744,977,187.20 2.3%  9 THA  Thailand $5,216,648,558.71 2.1%  10 IDN  Indonesia $5,149,961,655.54 2.1%  11 SGP  Singapore $5,014,752,527.73 2.0%  12 MYS  Malaysia $4,989,075,996.87 2.0%  13 GBR  United Kingdom $3,254,785,943.69 1.3%  14 DEU  Germany $3,046,447,225.08 1.2%  15 PNG  Papua New Guinea $2,725,206,465.10 1.1%  16 CAN  Canada $2,172,145,609.40 0.87%  17 BLX  Belgium-Luxembourg $1,977,117,087.49 0.79%  18 PHL  Philippines $1,815,574,953.83 0.73%  19 XXA  Areas $1,782,152,892.00 0.72%  20 NLD  Netherlands $1,739,582,224.72 0.70%   
We import from the following 1 CHN  China $43,108,010,991.38 18%  2 USA  United States $29,088,900,096.69 12%  3 JPN  Japan $19,620,079,120.33 8.2%  4 SGP  Singapore $13,531,485,404.07 5.6%  5 DEU  Germany $11,918,672,016.80 5.0%  6 THA  Thailand $10,460,971,118.26 4.4%  7 KOR  South Korea $10,283,808,746.56 4.3%  8 MYS  Malaysia $9,773,939,815.10 4.1%  9 NZL  New Zealand $7,332,851,838.87 3.1%  10 GBR  United Kingdom $6,918,010,223.81 2.9%  11 IDN  Indonesia $6,311,508,355.08 2.6%  12 ITA  Italy $5,417,241,143.99 2.3%  13 PNG  Papua New Guinea $4,846,951,164.89 2.0%  14 FRA  France $3,871,419,721.77 1.6%  15 XXA  Areas $3,630,053,634.73 1.5%  16   Other Asia $3,336,441,526.03 1.4%  17 VNM  Vietnam $3,161,513,503.94 1.3%  18 CHE  Switzerland $3,012,283,481.48 1.3%  19 NGA  Nigeria $3,006,287,565.78 1.3%  20 ESP  Spain $2,988,844,455.89 1.2%   
 We import 7 billion from NZ, we are No1 on their export list, an untapped market in NZ production surely.

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## Marc

Just in relation to Australian gas, and fuel in general, we unfortunately export everything we can at whatever price we can get usually cheap, without any consideration to local market because the local market pays the singapore international price even if sourced locally. It is an unsustainable and backwards arrangement that leaves us to the mercy of international players who all subsidised their industries and unfairly compete with whatever little manufacturing and agriculture we have left. 
It is the negative side of the democratic system. That's why it is the less bad of the government systems far from good. Government heads, ministers and the like have no personal responsibility for the devastation of their unscrupulous and reckless decisions made purely for ideology or personal posturing purposes. if prime ministers would be CEO of a company many of them would be in gaol starting with KR and JG

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## phild01

> if prime ministers would be CEO of a company many of them would be in gaol starting with KR and JG

  How can I not agree with that! They wrecked the boat.

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