# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Kitchen sink plumbing - space saving options

## ambersand

Hi, This is my first post though I have used this forum a bit for info and found it very helpful. 
We are about to gut and re-do our 30 year old kitchen which my husband built when he was 24! (He's not a builder by trade either) 
I would dearly love to have a pull out waste bin system under the 1.5 bowl kitchen sink (eg a Hafele 3 bin system 336mm wide by 320mm high) but have been told there will not be enough room.  :Mad:  
We have "high" benchtops (950mm) and I am looking at options that will give us the maximum amount of room so even if that waste storage system can't be used, some similar product could be. 
I have found two commercial plumbing products - Clark's Epure Multi Link Space saver plumbing kit and Franke's Spazio plumbing kit. Both seem to be based on the same concept of redirecting the waste to the back of the cupboard to maximise space underneath. 
So my questions are:
1) Has anyone used any of these sorts of systems?
2) Does the use of this sort of plumbng make the drainage of the sink less efficient?
3) Is it possible to fit waste bins like this under the sink or am I being unrealistic and too demanding!!!!!!  :Wink:  
On an different but related vein. I would also like a retractable kitchen mixer tap. I can see the benefits but am worried that with time the "retractability" might become an issue. Any comments on that aspect would be welcome. Is it just a question of getting a top of the range model? I was also told that the lower the attachment point is under the sink, the better is that correct?

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## journeyman Mick

Lincoln Sentry carry a few sinks that have wastes near the back of the bowl. There's also a system that has a sink matched to a shallow drawer that wraps around the basins. Are you sure you can't fit the bin unit in? I have huge industrial type basins welded into a custom stainless and I managed to fit a drawer type waste bin underneath (just). 
Mick

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## alanm

If the unit is only 320mm high then it will clear all but the sloppiest plumbing, especially with the extra 50mm bench height. We have a taller (360mm) dual pull out bin (one behind the other) with no problems under our dual bowl sink. We even have double dishwasher plumbing in there too. 
The Suter comfort range of sinks has some good deep bowls with  rear wastes, that can maximise fron cupboard space.

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## Sybarite

> I have found two commercial plumbing products - Clark's Epure Multi Link Space saver plumbing kit and Franke's Spazio plumbing kit. Both seem to be based on the same concept of redirecting the waste to the back of the cupboard to maximise space underneath. 
> So my questions are:
> 1) Has anyone used any of these sorts of systems?
> 2) Does the use of this sort of plumbng make the drainage of the sink less efficient?
> 3) Is it possible to fit waste bins like this under the sink or am I being unrealistic and too demanding!!!!!!  
> On an different but related vein. I would also like a retractable kitchen mixer tap. I can see the benefits but am worried that with time the "retractability" might become an issue. Any comments on that aspect would be welcome. Is it just a question of getting a top of the range model? I was also told that the lower the attachment point is under the sink, the better is that correct?

  As the others have said, with those sorts of bin dimensions I can't see why there should be any real problem fitting it underneath the sink and next to the plumbing waste. 
I don't know about the brands you have quoted but when we did our dishwasher under sink project the plumber used what he called a "levelling kit" to direct the waste to one side of the cabinet and ran the trap in the wase from front to back in the avaialble space - he was initially sceptical, but I told him it was going to work and it did!
We haven't noticed any change to the drainage from either of the sink bowls. 
As for retractable taps, the issue can be that they have a long steel hose that needs to hang down inside the cabinet.
The hose has a weight attached to "the lowest point" in the loop to help the hose retract when the tap is placed in its bracket.
If you have a lot going on underneath your sink (like our dishwasher) you might not have the space for the hose to fall into its loop. 
Cheers, 
Earl

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## arms

looks to me that some welding work or rearrangement of the bowls has been carried out as well

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## Sybarite

> looks to me that some welding work or rearrangement of the bowls has been carried out as well

  If there was it certainly wasn't done by us - besides the discolouration (which I just thought was an artefact of the age of the sink) I can't find any evidence of any cut and shut work. 
The bowls are both 165mm deep, which is pretty average for the age of the sink - the kitchen itself is about 15 years old and the sink might already have been salvaged from somewhere else - I wouldn't know. 
If someone did seriously bother to shorten the bowls they did an excellent job of it - I wish I could find them to do some welding for me! 
Still can't imagine why they would have bothered though...there was nothing underneath that sink before we put the dishwasher in. 
Cheers, 
Earl

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## ambersand

Thanks Sybarite, for your input. The plumbing hugging the side of the cupboard is what hubbie thinks will work, so hopefully plumber can do it.  
Your first photo shows a similar set up to what he is describing (I think!  :Wink:  ) Have photoshopped it to suit our setup and think it will work although our outlet is 10-15cm away from left side of cupboard.   
Our dishwasher will be on the right so I assume they can work that in as well?! 
The point about needing to put the attachment point low for the retractable hose is also what I have heard, so that looks like the main requirement. Maybe ensuring bins don't go all the way to back of the cupbard will ensure there is enough space. 
Thanks again for feedback.

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## Sybarite

> Thanks Sybarite, for your input. The plumbing hugging the side of the cupboard is what hubbie thinks will work, so hopefully plumber can do it.  
> Your first photo shows a similar set up to what he is describing (I think!  ) Have photoshopped it to suit our setup and think it will work although our outlet is 10-15cm away from left side of cupboard.

  Glad to help. 
For what it's worth, if your plumber (and/or your budget) is willing it is not too hard to move a waste across to where you need it - lots of clever things can be done in the area under the carcass. 
But if you are lucky you should have the room you need without having to resort to that. 
Cheers, 
Earl

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