# Forum Home Renovation Laundry  Firming floor of 100 year old house for new front load wash machine.

## otzi

Hello,  After the death of the old Cleanmaid wash machine we were informed that the new Front load high speed spin washers needed a very firm floor to help prevent shake and walking. I have removed all floor coverings down to the wood. Screwed and sealed all old wood sanded level timbers and have a piece of 45mm bench top laminated all around to insert in space. ( 600x600 mm) Which will be screwed from underneath. -- My question is what would be the best product to seal/affix this piece of bench top. Liquid nails or Silicone or some other mould free water proof bonding agent. -- Thanks  Otzi <and I can't seem to make paragraphs work on this post>

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## phild01

I think you will be fine with liquid nails.  The washing machine I take it is front loader.  I know some WM's dance less than others.  My sister tried an electrolux frontloader on a concrete slab and it danced forward all the time, she took it back.  Another friend had the identical model electrolux and it couldn't be better. 
I would be concerned about your laminated benchtop though.  If it is particleboard, it will swell up when it gets wet, even if laminated all round.  Why not try the WM first without the benchtop.

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## shauck

levelling them properly should help

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## otzi

Thanks, Now I am concerned with the swelling of the bench top piece. The machine is a Miele with a weight of 95 kg. Yes that is correct. Seems they put concrete in the base to help with the vibrations. I may have chosen some thing else but that was out of my hands. I couldn't leave the floor as it was, soft vinyl, cork, two layers of (now) decaying hardboard and board movement on the joists. I will need to raise the hole 3/4" deep. with some thing. Needs to be dense for the weight and vibrations, any suggestions?. -- Also can any one help with this, no paragraphs, problem i.e. no enter button action. as I type. -- Otzi

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## Random Username

For you posting problem...try using a different browser if you are using IE.  Microsoft interprets the world in its own unique way, kind of like that person on the bus who talks to angels and faeries.

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## phild01

A nice new expensive Miele, geeze I'd be doing a reno on the whole laundry.  Your existing floor doesn't sound like it's in very good shape.  Would lifting the entire floor and replacing be out of the question?  I would suggest laying compressed cement sheet or scyon secura which is easier to work with.  It is 18mm thick and just over $100 a sheet.!
I doubt your Miele will dance.  I have an Asko on timber and it doesn't even hint at moving around.  All these front loaders are heavy with added concrete or metal.

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## JB1

Is the timber is sound, I'd just some cement sheet underlay over the floorboards, if not scyon as recommended above. 
I'll raise you, my 10kg German made whirlpool front loader is 103kg and 965mm high. 
It just squeezed into the space, 6mm gap each side.   
Lucky it doesn't vibrate too much  :Smilie:  I was worried it was going to vibrate the tiles off! Haha  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

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## GraemeCook

> Hello,  After the death of the old Cleanmaid wash machine we were informed that the new Front load high speed spin washers needed a very firm floor to help prevent shake and walking.

  My Miele has not attempted to walk, ever, and its about six or seven years old, now.   

> I have removed all floor coverings down to the wood. Screwed and sealed all old wood sanded level timbers .......

  Sounds good, but while you are doing this it might be worthwhile, as Phil suggests, to review the adequacy of the entire floor or its coverings and waterproofing.   

> and have a piece of 45mm bench top laminated all around to insert in space. ( 600x600 mm) Which will be screwed from underneath. -- My question is what would be the best product to seal/affix this piece of bench top. Liquid nails or Silicone or some other mould free water proof bonding agent. --

  Unsure on what you were saying here - perhaps a photo would help?   Do you want to put in a panel to plug the hole where the old top loader was and thus extend your bench to over the front loader?   What are your bench tops made of?   Is the laminated product you mention HMR (high moisture resistant) or have I missed something?   

> Thanks  Otzi <and I can't seem to make paragraphs work on this post>

  I got sick of Bill Gates trying to format my stuff years ago and switched to Mozilla Firefox.   And its free - my sort of price!    
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## johnc

Ours is an Electrolux under a chipboard bench top the whole lot is about 5 years old and on a concrete floor. The machine doesn't move, the chipboard hasn't swelled and there is no vibration. We did go to a bit of trouble to make sure it was levelled properly though.

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## Oldsaltoz

Err, you need to waterproof your laundry floor before installing the new kit or rick the lot falling through when the boards get wet and rot. 
Simple solution would be to install some tile underlay sheet then waterproof. You van then install a floor covering of tiles, or Vinyl sheeting /tiles. 
Failing to waterproof the floor first would be high risk. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## otzi

Oldsaltoz, - The piece of 45 mm bench top is a water resistant hi density particle board. I had it fully sheeted for water proofing and the idea was to fill the hole in the floor thereby also adding density for the washer to shake against. -- phild01, considered water eventually swelling the block. I recon he's right. -- Scyon has been mentioned, seems better proposition. -- QUESTION, If scion is lighter than cement sheet, would not cement sheet offer greater density, hence stability ? Are there properties about scyon  giving gain over cement sheet? -- Otzi

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## phild01

> Ours is an Electrolux under a chipboard bench top the whole lot is about 5 years old and on a concrete floor. The machine doesn't move, the chipboard hasn't swelled and there is no vibration. We did go to a bit of trouble to make sure it was levelled properly though.

  I took the comment of the laminated bench to be an infill under the WM and otzi was speaking of firming up the floor, filling an 18mm hole, screwing from underneath and using an adhesive to secure it!!  Unless otzi says otherwise I think I got the gyst of it. 
Also, I would not use fc underlay in a waterproofing scenario especially over floorboards.  I feel it is a stop-gap solution considering how it could be better sorted.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Oldsaltoz, - The piece of 45 mm bench top is a water resistant hi density particle board. I had it fully sheeted for water proofing and the idea was to fill the hole in the floor thereby also adding density for the washer to shake against. -- phild01, considered water eventually swelling the block. I recon he's right. -- Scyon has been mentioned, seems better proposition. -- QUESTION, If scion is lighter than cement sheet, would not cement sheet offer greater density, hence stability ? Are there properties about scyon  giving gain over cement sheet? -- Otzi

  Scylon is just another particle board product so not a good idea if not properly waterproofed.
Compressed cement sheet is available in 15 and 19 mm thickness and is often used to replace floor boards altogether, but it still has to be waterproofed. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Scylon is just another particle board product so not a good idea if not properly waterproofed.
> Compressed cement sheet is available in 15 and 19 mm thickness and is often used to replace floor boards altogether, but it still has to be waterproofed. 
> Good luck.

  Scyon is a hardies product and I doubt it is particle board.  As I understand it it is still a compressed cement type of product but fractionally lighter and easier to work.  A 2700 x 600 sheet is 40kg and comes in 2 types - interior and exterior.  The exterior does not need waterproofing in the same way particle board does.  It is recommended in the same way compressed cement sheet is.
 see this link Scyon - Exterior Flooring or Scyon - Scyon Secura Interior Flooring

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## phild01

> Oldsaltoz, - The piece of 45 mm bench top is a water resistant hi density particle board. I had it fully sheeted for water proofing and the idea was to fill the hole in the floor thereby also adding density for the washer to shake against. -- phild01, considered water eventually swelling the block. I recon he's right. -- Scyon has been mentioned, seems better proposition. -- QUESTION, If scion is lighter than cement sheet, would not cement sheet offer greater density, hence stability ? Are there properties about scyon  giving gain over cement sheet? -- Otzi

  Otzi, I think you are thinking too hard in the wrong direction.  Your floor is what it is and dealing with a small section like you describe will do very little to stiffen that part of the floor.  It is what is taking the weight of the floor generally that dictates this - joists and bearers.  It seems to me that you are worried that it is a heavy machine and it is difficult  to be moved if there is an issue.  If you move your body up and down on this section of floor, can you feel movement? Or is it that your floorboards are loose with little support!  
Scyon (secura interior) performs the same way as compressed cement sheet.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Scyon is a hardies product and I doubt it is particle board.  As I understand it it is still a compressed cement type of product but fractionally lighter and easier to work.  A 2700 x 600 sheet is 40kg and comes in 2 types - interior and exterior.  The exterior does not need waterproofing in the same way particle board does.  It is recommended in the same way compressed cement sheet is.
>  see this link Scyon - Exterior Flooring or Scyon - Scyon Secura Interior Flooring

  Yes you are correct, I must have been thinking about some other product, well it was a big day yesterday and very late when I posted. That'll teach me a lesson.  
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## otzi

Hello all, well the up date. I rang Hardy's and the chap in technical was very helpful. He understood well the issue. His answer was to use compressed cement sheet as there is less possibility of local compression under the feet of the  (possibly) shaking washing machine. Suggested was 15 mm but the 24 mm thickness would be best. Bunnings had small (1800x900) sheets of 18 mm for $99 (?) So I went with this, figuring that I could double it. Further it was suggested to coat the sheets with Davco waterproof membrane K10 plus. That was as pricy as the board. Screwing these down to the joists. -- Hopefully this will all work out OK. Oh, the flooring is quite stable (for old wooden flooring) during the aforementioned scientific bounce test. I was reckoning to do what I can on top and then further gusseting and joisting underneath if needed. There is no way of doing any more floor that this little support pad. -- Just as a by the way, Do screws grip successfully in the compressed cement sheet or do they need to go through and into something.?

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## phild01

> Hello all, well the up date. I rang Hardy's and the chap in technical was very helpful. He understood well the issue. His answer was to use compressed cement sheet as there is less possibility of local compression under the feet of the  (possibly) shaking washing machine. Suggested was 15 mm but the 24 mm thickness would be best. Bunnings had small (1800x900) sheets of 18 mm for $99 (?) So I went with this, figuring that I could double it. Further it was suggested to coat the sheets with Davco waterproof membrane K10 plus. That was as pricy as the board. Screwing these down to the joists. -- Hopefully this will all work out OK. Oh, the flooring is quite stable (for old wooden flooring) during the aforementioned scientific bounce test. I was reckoning to do what I can on top and then further gusseting and joisting underneath if needed. There is no way of doing any more floor that this little support pad. -- Just as a by the way, Do screws grip successfully in the compressed cement sheet or do they need to go through and into something.?

  
Hardies recommend self tapping screws for  for bathroom fittings to their villaboard so on this basis I would try drilling a small diameter hole into the compressed sheet just big enough so the self tapper turns and bites without shearing off.  I will be doing a similar thing with their scyon product.  BTW, for that small area you are doing the K10 is unnecessary.  For the whole laundry floor, yes with bond breakers.  Little will be gained by using it as the panel you got is impervious to any water damage.  I have left a piece out in the weather for years unchanged. Disappointed you are not doing the complete reno :Annoyed:  :Smilie:

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hello all,  
> Just as a by the way, Do screws grip successfully in the compressed cement sheet or do they need to go through and into something.?

  for this application I would run a bead of sealant around the underside, stick it down and  pre drill the sheet and countersink, then put some sealant in the hole, screw down and then seal over the recessed head. 
Use screws that will not rust. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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