# Forum Home Renovation Tiling  DIYer tile 600x600 porcelain on hardwood floor. Realistic???

## nethern

I plan to lay 600x600 porcelain tile on the hardwood floor in my 40-year-old-ex-gov house. As I am DIYer, certainly I wish I could do it myself. However, I have heard from people, it is too hard to do for a novice.  
The hard parts are claimed to be heavy tile, uneven wooden floor even with f/c underlay nailed on and lack of experience. 
May I ask if doing myself is realistic at all. Any tips? Or I definitely need to go for a tiler? 
Thanks.

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## Oldsaltoz

My advice:
Put down the tile underlay making sure it's well secured. 
Put a longish straight edge over the floor and look for daylight under it. 
Any hint of an uneven floor Must be corrected with a levelling medium. 
600 x 600 mm tiles is starting at the deep end, if your tiles have sharp square top edge corners, get a tiler in, if rounded top edge corners you 'might' have a chance. 
The larger the tile the more level the floor has to be. 
Good luck. :Smilie:

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## brettsyoung

I did it myself. Not that hard - just fear of the unknown. (Although you are starting in the deep end with such large tiles!)  The most important bit is the planning. Plenty of posts here on how to plan your layout. Tile spacers and notched adhesive applicators take the guesswork out of laying. A long straight timber will help with keeping it level. Lay small areas at first. And if it looks rubbish pull it up, scrape and wash off the adhesive and start again. You'll have the hang of it in no time. Tile cutting is also not hard once you get the hang of it - and that doesn't take long. Worth buying a cheap, water-fed bench tile cutter. Remember, like all renos, mistakes can often be hidden. In this case you'll be amazed what you can hide with grout...  
good luck
Brett

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## Scottythetiler

i just laid 108m2 of 600x600 alone during the week and can 100% say that each tile weigh's 8kg and i feel it lol.  if you dont have a decent sigma straight cutter and decent ultra thin diamond grinder wheel, then look at getting a tiler in to do it for you.  just get the quote first mate and we'll see if its a fair price or not.  my sigma tile cutter is about $720 these days and a nice grinder + wheel will cost about $130.  you could mix by hand with a trowel and bucket or buy a low rpm drill from tradetools for about $100. 
how large is the area?  how much fiddly cutting is there? 
i do have a small bench wet saw like mentioned but that wont help much as you would have to wait for every tile to dry before it could be laid. 
there is a 2 part adhesive for sticking straight to timber/chipboard floors which is about $100 for 2 bags of powder and a 15 litre bucket of liquid.  its a bit more advanced for the beginner mate but nothings impossible.  i tend to favour the fibro on the floor trick but its not always up to me to specify.

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## nethern

> I did it myself. Not that hard - just fear of the unknown. (Although you are starting in the deep end with such large tiles!)  The most important bit is the planning. Plenty of posts here on how to plan your layout. Tile spacers and notched adhesive applicators take the guesswork out of laying. A long straight timber will help with keeping it level. Lay small areas at first. And if it looks rubbish pull it up, scrape and wash off the adhesive and start again. You'll have the hang of it in no time. Tile cutting is also not hard once you get the hang of it - and that doesn't take long. Worth buying a cheap, water-fed bench tile cutter. Remember, like all renos, mistakes can often be hidden. In this case you'll be amazed what you can hide with grout...  
> good luck
> Brett

  You are right. "Fear of unknown". I have studied, asked people and read online for a long while before I actually wanted to start.I now know the basics of the f/c trick. But I am fear of the leveling of tile on the surface + heavy weight - sounds like playing around the tile is extremely difficult (at least more difficult than 300x300 ones). Some tiles are not vitrified and has sharp edge,.so people get hurt if it is not leveled well.  
What is the most difficult part in your experience? 
The straight line you talked about is used for leveling on the top of the tiles or used for align tiles to a straight line?

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## nethern

> i just laid 108m2 of 600x600 alone during the week and can 100% say that each tile weigh's 8kg and i feel it lol.  if you dont have a decent sigma straight cutter and decent ultra thin diamond grinder wheel, then look at getting a tiler in to do it for you.  just get the quote first mate and we'll see if its a fair price or not.  my sigma tile cutter is about $720 these days and a nice grinder + wheel will cost about $130.  you could mix by hand with a trowel and bucket or buy a low rpm drill from tradetools for about $100. 
> how large is the area?  how much fiddly cutting is there? 
> i do have a small bench wet saw like mentioned but that wont help much as you would have to wait for every tile to dry before it could be laid. 
> there is a 2 part adhesive for sticking straight to timber/chipboard floors which is about $100 for 2 bags of powder and a 15 litre bucket of liquid.  its a bit more advanced for the beginner mate but nothings impossible.  i tend to favour the fibro on the floor trick but its not always up to me to specify.

  I am looking at laying 60m2 all together, but at the moment I want to do the 30m2 in the living room + kitchen. How long would it possible take? 
You mentioned two tools. Are they both used for cutting straight? The sigma cutter is a manual tool? not automatic? why the grinder wheel has to be ultra thin?

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## Scottythetiler

first time laying 600x600's and 60m2 could take you 4-5 days if its your first time with everything and there are fiddly cuts. 
the sigma cutter is the straight cutter where you score/scratch the tile in a line then you crack it into 2 pieces.  the thin grinding blade is to get a neat cut.  if you try any kind of blade from bunnings, you will get lots of packaging that says it can do the job but it will end up bouncing around and chipping edges a lot.

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## nethern

> first time laying 600x600's and 60m2 could take you 4-5 days if its your first time with everything and there are fiddly cuts. 
> the sigma cutter is the straight cutter where you score/scratch the tile in a line then you crack it into 2 pieces.  the thin grinding blade is to get a neat cut.  if you try any kind of blade from bunnings, you will get lots of packaging that says it can do the job but it will end up bouncing around and chipping edges a lot.

  Can you tell me the exact brand and model number of the diamond blade you talked about so that I don't have to go to the shop and ask lots of "if" or "dose it". 
Thanks.

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## Scottythetiler

i use either of these:  17-TTT TILERS n TRADE THIN TURBO BY DIREX - Diamond Blades, Drills, etc.  17-DBT100 DIREX 100MM THIN TURBO - Diamond Blades, Drills, etc. 
you cant buy blades like that from tradetools, bunnings, mitre 10, home hardware etc etc.  if you buy a blade like the ones i just linked from a tile shop or similar they can some tiles charge you double the price because they are greedy.

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## brettsyoung

> You are right. "Fear of unknown". I have studied, asked people and read online for a long while before I actually wanted to start.I now know the basics of the f/c trick. But I am fear of the leveling of tile on the surface + heavy weight - sounds like playing around the tile is extremely difficult (at least more difficult than 300x300 ones). Some tiles are not vitrified and has sharp edge,.so people get hurt if it is not leveled well.  
> What is the most difficult part in your experience? 
> The straight line you talked about is used for leveling on the top of the tiles or used for align tiles to a straight line?

  The weight is the issue for handling, but if you are commited to doing it yourself you are also commited to lugging the bloody things around. When they rest on the adhesive they will be easier to move around as the glue and the trapped air will help.  
To keep the lines straight you need to properly prepare with chalk lines etc, but if your starting wall is straight (ie the corner where your eye rests first when entering the room) then the rest will generally take care of itself. Trust your eye when laying - get up and have a look each time you lay. Using the starting wall and spacers will help keep everything straight. Don't overthink this stuff - no-one will notice even if it is slightly out. Especially as (I presume) you'll have furniture and stuff on it. If you are really worried you could alway set up string lines as guides - but overkill for mine. 
For leveling you need a long straight piece of timber and a couple of shorter ones. Use the timbers to lay across the tiles and work out where tiles need to be banged down or lifted slightly. Believe me, you'll have to bang some corners down (with a mallet on the wood) and jack a few up and shove a bit more adhesive under. Professional tilers can probably sense how the tiles are going and fix as they go, but amateurs like us just have to go slow and assume you will have to fix bugger-ups every so often. Don't overthink it...if you've been reading the stuff that's about on laying tiles then you are ready to start. 
Scotty's advice is undoubtedly sound regarding quality blades. My 450x tiles were pretty soft and easy to cut. Nevertheless, this is not a hard job. While a bit nervous at first, you'll start to rip through it as you get the hang of it. I often used a strip of timber laid and clamped along the tile as a guide for the grinder to follow. I did chip my porcelain tiles a bit, but then they usually went along the edges and were either buried by skirting or silicon sealer. No big deal. 
The job will be MUCH easier if you get a helper. Two people to carry the tiles for one, but most importantly (at least in my case) was for one person to lay tiles and the other to cut as you go. In other words, one person marks the cuts and lays the tiles, the other person cuts the tiles and dries them, and makes up the adhesive. The two people get better at their job as they go and the job gets faster.  
Get a ten dollar mixing attachment and stick it in your cordless drill for mixing adhesive - it works fine. Beware this is a bloody messy job. You'll end up with adhesive everywhere and wet tile sludge everywhere and bits of broken tile everywhere and sore knees...but all worth it. 
Most importantly...stop mucking about and GET STARTED! I nearly wore a hole in my "contemplation stool" (as my wife calls it) staring at the floor and wondering when it was going to start itself....

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## Stan 101

I see a lot of people mention a grinder. I went a bought a cheap circular saw and put a 4 inch diamond wheel on it. It works like a charm. I've cut about 100 450mm tiles and had one break / chip.  
Just a thought,  
Cheers,

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## Scottythetiler

> I see a lot of people mention a grinder. I went a bought a cheap circular saw and put a 4 inch diamond wheel on it. It works like a charm. I've cut about 100 450mm tiles and had one break / chip.  
> Just a thought,  
> Cheers,

  hitachi grinders are $80-95 and will give you a lot more mobility than a circular saw.  i give you 10 points for being resourceful but i'd never use a saw like that due to more limiting factors such as visibility and weight, not to mention you'd have a vibrating base plate running over the tile which could damage the glaze easily.

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## nethern

Thank you all for the replies. There are some more questions I am not quite sure about and might need your confirmations: 
1. I am using underlay f/c from bunnings. It was said to be Hardie James underlay. I had the Hardie James installation guide and there is nothing on it mentioning sealing the gaps between two underlay boards while a lot of online videos saying need to seal. Don't know which way is correct. 
2. For 600x600 porcelain, I should use 1.5mm spacer, correct? 
3. I understand a long straight line is needed for leveling. But how do I make it or where I can buy one? I don't have anything that can cut a perfect/guarantee straight line for that long. 
4. There is a kitchen area that I want to tile. I should brush waterproof membrane on wall and underlay first before tiling. Correct?  
5. What size of the notched trowel I should use? I guess it will be different from the one I have for laying small size ceramic tiles (don't know its notch depth). 
In terms of cutting tools, I think I will get sigma cutting 5b from ebay Sigma Tile Cutter ART 5B - 62Cm (eBay item 270598419334 end time 22-Nov-10 11:24:16 AEDST) : Home 
Grinder blade....maybe I can buy online from where *Scottythetiler* listed

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## Oldsaltoz

> Thank you all for the replies. There are some more questions I am not quite sure about and might need your confirmations: 
> 1. I am using underlay f/c from bunnings. It was said to be Hardie James underlay. I had the Hardie James installation guide and there is nothing on it mentioning sealing the gaps between two underlay boards while a lot of online videos saying need to seal. Don't know which way is correct.  Gaps should be sealed, sikaflex 11fc will be fine. 
> 2. For 600x600 porcelain, I should use 1.5mm spacer, correct?  As a beginner I would advise a wider gap, say 5 mm minimum. 
> 3. I understand a long straight line is needed for leveling. But how do I make it or where I can buy one? I don't have anything that can cut a perfect/guarantee straight line for that long.  A cheap laser level or a 2 m box beam, 50 mm x 25 mm. 
> 4. There is a kitchen area that I want to tile. I should brush waterproof membrane on wall and underlay first before tiling. Correct?   Only if it's a timber floor or upstairs. Kitchens are not considered to be a 'Wet area'. 
> 5. What size of the notched trowel I should use? I guess it will be different from the one I have for laying small size ceramic tiles (don't know its notch depth).  Talk to your tile supplier and let them know if the tiles are going on the wall or floor, also advise the glue type used. 
>   Grinder blade....maybe I can buy online from where *Scottythetiler* listed  Good idea.

  Good luck. :Smilie:

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