# Forum Home Renovation Paving  Sleepers used for paving

## Calamaty Jane

Morning all, 
I was wondering if new treated pine sleepers (50mm or less) can be used for paving. 
Was wondering how much the sleepers may twist or warp when dry.... 
I have just read an article saying that  the majority of the sleepers that are bought are still green???? If you want dry sleepers you pay a big price. 
Has anyone used them for this purpose?? :Biggrin:

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## SilentButDeadly

You can but they won't stay straight and true  unless they are well fixed to something solid.... 
A more stable alternative is to chop the sleepers up into 80 to 100mm lengths and lay the pieces on their end grain.

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## dazzler

Yep, gotta be tied down or they will warp real bad. 
if you can bury sleepers in the ground and then screw the ends of the 'paving' sleepers into these ones then they shouldnt warp. 
Just remember dont cut into them otherwise, without further treatement, they will allow the borers in.

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## Calamaty Jane

Hmmm, ok I think I will scratch that idea then :Biggrin:  
I am trying to think of something else to use for paving. We have a few areas to pave and I am trying to look for other ideas rather that have vast expanses of the same paving............. 
Anybody got any other ideas :Confused:

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## Bloss

Treated pine sleepers can be used for pavers as you suggest, but need to be selected so that they are less likely to distort in/on the ground. As has been said they are usually laid onto other sleepers buried a little deeper and then affixed to them. 
Dazzler is wrong - treated pine sleepers are H4 (or H5) and can be cut without too much affect on their longevity (the treatment is applied under pressure and goes all the way through the wood) and they will definitely not get eaten by borers or other pests (well not for 25-30 years or so). In any case there are appropriate solutions available to paint onto cut ends in in-ground uses. 
See: http://www.treatedpine.net.au/ 
Having said that I don't like them much because they can get very slippery when wet - but look around at parks, wharves national parks etc - they are all over the place. They can twist and warp, but that can be minimised if someone selects good ones for you (they will be full of moisture from the treatment and are often stored outdoors). 
Other options are site-dependent and intended use - various gravels and pebbles are simple and cheap, including recycled crushed bricks & concrete. Various woodchips make OK paths too. Brick and concrete pavers are more costly and so are poured in situ paths. 
Google is your friend - many of the sites associated with lifestyle programs have good tips for this as do quite a few of the suppliers.

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## varpy

I have worked a lot with T/Pine (landscaper) and hope I never have to use the icky sticky bendy toxic stuff again. It is handy though! You can do a lot with it and it is very cheap bang-for-the-buck wise.  
It would make lousy paving IMHO. Slippery, ugly and it is toxic. Most likely ou would be tracking the copper chromium arsenate into the house and it would be a no-no on your bare feet. I would never consider it for paving. My preference depending on use, site conditions etc would be to go for a permeable surface. It is the friendliest way to put a skin on the ground.    :Smilie:

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## TermiMonster

I don't know if you can still get them, but tramway blocks used to be a paving alternative....basically blocks of hardwood about 100mmX 70x 150.  They were used between tram tracks at one stage.
Also, something like lilydale toppings isn't a bad alternative for paths and even drive ways.  It's that white crushed rock type stuff that compacts fairly hard.
Good luck
TM

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## dazzler

> Dazzler is wrong - treated pine sleepers are H4 (or H5) and can be cut without too much affect on their longevity (the treatment is applied under pressure and goes all the way through the wood) and they will definitely not get eaten by borers or other pests (well not for 25-30 years or so).

  
Wrong  :Confused:  ..........depends on who you listen to I suppose   http://www.thelogfactory.com.au/resealing_cut_pine.aspx   :Rolleyes:

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## Bloss

Dazzler - Yep and I like to 'listen' to authoritative sources - and quote them. If you quote me please use the full quote including "In any case there are appropriate solutions available to paint onto cut ends in in-ground uses" which is exactly what advice is offered at the site you gave. 
And IMO it is best to use sites that describe the technical issues and have proper technical data sheets not mainly sales blurbs (such as the log factory). 
So we seem to agree at least in part - there is no evidence that cut ends will have borer or other attack occur very much earlier, but good practice (and possibly warranty compliance although by the time a problem occurs few of the manufacturers would be around to claim against) suggests that to maintain the expected life (which is longer than most people will ever live in  one house) cut ends should be treated - which is what I said . . . I  say again - we are in some agreement anyway.

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## dazzler

Sorry bout that......Yeah, I can be a cranky little fella sometimes  :Tongue:   :Smilie:

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