# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Kitchen base carcase depth vs benchtop overhang

## OBBob

Hi All 
This evening's conundrum ...  
Standard (off the shelf) base cabinet carcase depth is about 560mm plus the door thickness. With the trend towards no overhang on the benchtops I'm wondering how this is usually dealt with? 
1. Smaller width benchtop ... it would end up about 575mm instead of 600mm I guess? 
2. Accept that no overhang looks good but is impractical / less functional and just add 20mm overhang? 
3. Order custom deeper cabinets? 
4. Pack the wall out with 20mm chipboard before installing the base cabinets?  
I guess the real question is ... is this 'no overhang' trend resulting in skinnier benchtops or do I have to deal with this issue and maintain ~600mm benchtop depth? I'm thinking it's the latter but I might as well ask what is being seen out there.  
Cheers.

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## arms

> Hi All 
> This evening's conundrum ...  
> Standard (off the shelf) base cabinet carcase depth is about 560mm plus the door thickness. With the trend towards no overhang on the benchtops I'm wondering how this is usually dealt with? 
> 1. Smaller width benchtop ... it would end up about 575mm instead of 600mm I guess? 
> 2. Accept that no overhang looks good but is impractical / less functional and just add 20mm overhang? 
> 3. Order custom deeper cabinets? 
> 4. Pack the wall out with 20mm chipboard before installing the base cabinets?  
> I guess the real question is ... is this 'no overhang' trend resulting in skinnier benchtops or do I have to deal with this issue and maintain ~600mm benchtop depth? I'm thinking it's the latter but I might as well ask what is being seen out there.  
> Cheers.

   some are making the carcasses 580 deep ,but most are simply holding the carcasses off the wall and making deeper end panels to suit .personally I dont agree with the look but that's what the ponytailed, crocodile skin shoe designers are pushing at the moment .

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## OBBob

Thanks Arms ... after sleeping on it I basically concluded that battening the carcases out was probably the appropriate solution. I too am a little torn because overhang has always been there for a reason ... e.g. spills fall to the floor rather than running down (or inside) the cupboards and when you are wiping crumbs from the bench you can put you hand under the overhang to catch them.

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## arms

> Thanks Arms ... after sleeping on it I basically concluded that battening the carcases out was probably the appropriate solution. I too am a little torn because overhang has always been there for a reason ... e.g. spills fall to the floor rather than running down (or inside) the cupboards and when you are wiping crumbs from the bench you can put you hand under the overhang to catch them.

  seems easy ,but a lot of people don't factor in the problems that arise with the sink and its clips

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## OBBob

Thanks Arms ... are you referring to if you have a narrower bench (also an issue for hot plates etc.)? Aiming for 600mm bench seems the way to go, either with overhang or without.

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## arms

> Thanks Arms ... are you referring to if you have a narrower bench (also an issue for hot plates etc.)? Aiming for 600mm bench seems the way to go, either with overhang or without.

  no standard sizes ,remember you are holding a standard depth cabinet off a wall by ,lets say 20mm ,so with the norm of construction these days of the 16mm back being 16mm in from the wall then it leaves you very little rim to affix sink clip too .not a problem but something to look out for in the planning stage .

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## mudbrick

Narrow benchtop makes the kitchen look and feel cheap as well as having less space on the bench and less in the cupboard.
id suggest making the cupboard and benchtop both as deep as possible. 
Also try to avoid the annoying timber strip under the front of the bench top just behind the door as this also reduces the usable space in the cupboard.

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## peter_sm

I would have thought 600mm back to face cabinets including doors, with 20mm overhang on bench top would be normal.

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## OBBob

> no standard sizes ,remember you are holding a standard depth cabinet off a wall by ,lets say 20mm ,so with the norm of construction these days of the 16mm back being 16mm in from the wall then it leaves you very little rim to affix sink clip too .not a problem but something to look out for in the planning stage .

  Thanks Arms ... I see your point, I think it can be dealt with if required. Thanks for the heads up. Although I've done a few kitchens and laundries previously, I'm constantly reminded that there are a lot of little traps that can be overlooked or forgotten if you don't do this stuff everyday.

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## OBBob

> Narrow benchtop makes the kitchen look and feel cheap as well as having less space on the bench and less in the cupboard.
> id suggest making the cupboard and benchtop both as deep as possible. 
> Also try to avoid the annoying timber strip under the front of the bench top just behind the door as this also reduces the usable space in the cupboard.

  Thanks. It'll be full width ... just a few hiccups in the design phase.  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

> I would have thought 600mm back to face cabinets including doors, with 20mm overhang on bench top would be normal.

  That'd give you a ~620mm benchtop, which is fine if you prefer ... but I don't think it'd be considered the norm.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> Thanks Arms ... after sleeping on it I basically concluded that battening the carcases out was probably the appropriate solution. I too am a little torn because overhang has always been there for a reason ... e.g. spills fall to the floor rather than running down (or inside) the cupboards and when you are wiping crumbs from the bench you can put you hand under the overhang to catch them.

  
People always forget water and spills. Sure no overhangs are trendy but they are no good for the long term life of your kitchen! 
You will find any little spill will result in you needing to clean the face of the door and also possibly inside the cabinet!

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## Moondog55

Same goes for drip beads

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## Cecile

We want 700 deep benches for all the reasons mentioned above.  The only issue is that our stove is only 600 deep, and I'm trying to figure out how this will fit into a deeper benchtop profile.

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## OBBob

> We want 700 deep benches for all the reasons mentioned above.  The only issue is that our stove is only 600 deep, and I'm trying to figure out how this will fit into a deeper benchtop profile.

  So I assume it is a free standing oven / cooktop? That could be a bit challenging to integrate.

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## Cecile

> So I assume it is a free standing oven / cooktop? That could be a bit challenging to integrate.

  It is freestanding, and I do know there's a challenge.  I have an idea in my head though, but it would require a little metalwork.  Time to hit the drawing board  :Redface: )

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## OBBob

> It is freestanding, and I do know there's a challenge.  I have an idea in my head though, but it would require a little metalwork.  Time to hit the drawing board )

  
Ooh ... you could install a pop-up downdraft rangehood! That'd be a great way to blow a few more grand.  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

I'd just put a 45 on the corner But what do I know?
Function first and form follows

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## OBBob

> I'd just put a 45 on the corner But what do I know?
> Function first and form follows

  I get the impression there may be other plans...

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## arms

> It is freestanding, and I do know there's a challenge.  I have an idea in my head though, but it would require a little metalwork.  Time to hit the drawing board )

  I have had this situation in the past ,I simply constructed the bench top to rise ,parallel ,then drop back to the original level behind the stove . only problem was a horizontal surface behind the ginormous gas stove the client bought, but they were prepared to cope that for the benefit of the extra depth tops .

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## peter_sm

Out of interest what is the norm/ standard? Depth is 600mm for dishwasher and stove. Overhang I have seen is 20mm on most older kitchens. Are we outside the norm or out of date 
for having 620mm benchtop. Do I have to rip it up and change it? Will it impact the standard size for anything else to come along? Will the toaster and kettle fit on the bench?

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## Moondog55

The "Norm" isn't always the best
We find the standard bench height far too low for instance and that height is increasing as out kids get taller, all the benches in this old 1950s house are 100mm too low for comfortable and efficient use by us

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## arms

> The "Norm" isn't always the best
> We find the standard bench height far too low for instance and that height is increasing as out kids get taller, all the benches in this old 1950s house are 100mm too low for comfortable and efficient use by us

  by todays standards a bench top at 940mm would be ideal .

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## OBBob

> Out of interest what is the norm/ standard? Depth is 600mm for dishwasher and stove. Overhang I have seen is 20mm on most older kitchens. Are we outside the norm or out of date 
> for having 620mm benchtop. Do I have to rip it up and change it? Will it impact the standard size for anything else to come along? Will the toaster and kettle fit on the bench?

  Joke?

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## Moondog55

Yes, for everything except bread and pastry taller is better. I see very few kitchens with a dropped section for heavy work

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## Cecile

I wonder about the 600mm standard.  Is this set perhaps because it's easy for the cabinetmaker to rip a piece of 1220 x whatever in half? 
I tend to agree with arms about the 940mm ideal benchtop height, and this is what we plan to use.

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## OBBob

> I wonder about the 600mm standard.  Is this set perhaps because it's easy for the cabinetmaker to rip a piece of 1220 x whatever in half? 
> I tend to agree with arms about the 940mm ideal benchtop height, and this is what we plan to use.

  Just need to check that your freestanding drive can do 940 of you're planning on using the legs or comes with.

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## mudbrick

> I wonder about the 600mm standard.  Is this set perhaps because it's easy for the cabinetmaker to rip a piece of 1220 x whatever in half?.

   That's exactly what it is, driven by the obsession to make as cheap as possible. But given the insignificant cost of melamine and MDF it won't make a huge difference to the total price and you will have a better storage space and Bench height. 
Bench top is more expensive though, and this is also cut from a sheet in most cases.

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## arms

> That's exactly what it is, driven by the obsession to make as cheap as possible. But given the insignificant cost of melamine and MDF it won't make a huge difference to the total price and you will have a better storage space and Bench height. 
> Bench top is more expensive though, and this is also cut from a sheet in most cases.

  actually most postformers allow a benchtop to be 610mm deep for the same price as a 600mm bench ,this is because many postformers buy blanks in and they come as 610,900,1200 as standard . white board as has been stated is a small cost in the overall cost of a kitchen .

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## mudbrick

Sure, but I wasn't talking about 10mm, I meant if you wanted a 700wide benchtop for example.
anyway, I'm just having a whinge because our new "bigger" kitchen has less storage space than our simple old kitchen for a variety of reasons.

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## arms

> Sure, but I wasn't talking about 10mm, I meant if you wanted a 700wide benchtop for example.
> anyway, I'm just having a whinge because our new "bigger" kitchen has less storage space than our simple old kitchen for a variety of reasons.

  well then your 700mm benchtop would have needed a 900mm blank to be cut down to your specs ,laminate would also be a larger sheet size to match and priced the same ,and if you didn't specify deeper drawer runners and minimal wastage of spaces/s then theres only one cause ,you,

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## Pitto

> seems easy ,but a lot of people don't factor in the problems that arise with the sink and its clips

  That and the minimum space from the wall that most cooktops require means that anything less than 600mm is bordering on voiding the warranty on the appliance. 
all my cabinets are custom made to suit the situation, so a 700mm bench with no overhang off doors, carcase is 680mm, 600mm bench with 20mm overhang off doors is 560mm carcase, ETC 
running 42x19 along the walls before installing would work if using 560mm carcases with a 600mm benchtop to acheive a 0 overhang.

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## Pitto

> We want 700 deep benches for all the reasons mentioned above.  The only issue is that our stove is only 600 deep, and I'm trying to figure out how this will fit into a deeper benchtop profile.

  
run a 80mm deep "packer" section and run the benchtop past the back of the Range, pushing the Range forward in line with the cabinets. i have done this a few times now, works and looks great.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> I wonder about the 600mm standard.  Is this set perhaps because it's easy for the cabinetmaker to rip a piece of 1220 x whatever in half? 
> I tend to agree with arms about the 940mm ideal benchtop height, and this is what we plan to use.

  
NO, not at all!!! 
For a 600mm bench top the cabinet internal depth is 520mm!

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> That's exactly what it is, driven by the obsession to make as cheap as possible. But given the insignificant cost of melamine and MDF it won't make a huge difference to the total price and you will have a better storage space and Bench height. 
> Bench top is more expensive though, and this is also cut from a sheet in most cases.

  Again that is wrong! If you used half  sheet for the internal of the cabinets it would give you a 680mm bench top! 
There is actually a lot of melamine off cut with a standard depth/height kitchen!

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## Pitto

> Again that is wrong! If you used half  sheet for the internal of the cabinets it would give you a 680mm bench top! 
> There is actually a lot of melamine off cut with a standard depth/height kitchen!

  yeah, was pretty much the case back in the day, but with CNC nesting the wastage rate has come down.

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## OBBob

> yeah, was pretty much the case back in the day, but with CNC nesting the wastage rate has come down.

  Yeah,  the software that calculates the best use of a sheet must be a brilliant change!

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## arms

> Yeah,  the software that calculates the best use of a sheet must be a brilliant change!

  I saw my first cnc router at awisa in 1998 ,I stood there for 2 hours watching the machine go through the same routine over and over again .I was astounded by the small wastage factor and as soon as I could afford one bought it .best machine I have ever owned ,even tell customers that I can make kitchens while I am not there .

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## OBBob

> I saw my first cnc router at awisa in 1998 ,I stood there for 2 hours watching the machine go through the same routine over and over again .I was astounded by the small wastage factor and as soon as I could afford one bought it .best machine I have ever owned ,even tell customers that I can make kitchens while I am not there .

  Another decade and they'll be delivered to the customer by drones and installed by robots.  :Smilie:

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## arms

> Another decade and they'll be delivered to the customer by drones and installed by robots.

  the trouble with the machines are true cabinetmaking skills are being left behind ,but to counteract that the kids are being taught computing skills and programming that will see them into the next century. well beyond my time on this mortal coil ,and some would say that that time cant come soon enough .

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