# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Kaboodle nightmare

## Paula74

My kaboodle kitchen finish is disgusting, I have the  buttermilk gloss finish and it is riddled with faults that are clearly visible from metres away. 
Additionally the replacement soft close drawer runners Supplied and installed by kaboodle after my push to open runners would not operate do not work either plus when they installed the handles they didn’t allow enough space between drawers and they are catching. 
They are blaming the handles Supplied by bunnings as being Not suitable for the kaboodle range. 
I note that others have had similar problems with this and am wondering if kaboodle resolved the problem as I’ve had to file with the courts as they And bunnings refused to accept responsibility 
Any shared experiences would
Be appreciated. 
Thanks

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## METRIX

Yep, the Kaboodle gloss finish is the worst I have ever seen, it's like they never cleaned the dust off the raw doors then thermo formed over the top of all the dust, there are heaps of little bumps and valleys, I have seen this a lot on various kaboodle thermo fiinsh, I have not noticed this on other reputable brands of thermo doors. 
Were the door made locally, or are they original Chinese made Kaboodle doors ?, the original ones are the ones I have seen and are terrible. 
What handles did you use, are they the ones that wrap over the top of the draw face and screw in from behind, because you need to allow a little extra room for this type of handle. 
Who is "they" who installed the kitchen for you, because "they" are responsible to make sure the handles work on the draws, or warn you that the handles are not suitable. 
I have used the wrap over type handles and they do need some more room, but i have always managed to get them working fine. 
Is this the type of handle you used ?

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## Paula74

Kaboodle came out 3 times to fix runners, the second time kaboodle installed soft close runners which still don’t work properly and the handles that bunnings supplied. 
The bunnings expert never said I couldn’t use the prestige version of the over the top handles. 
The kaboodle installer did say I couldn’t use that kind of handle meaning the over the top type but I pointed out they are similar to kaboodle range. 
He swore in an affidavit that he adjusted the fronts to fit but he didn’t, he did attempt to bend the handles with a hammer. 
Absolute nightmare that has even gone through the human rights commission after the gender discrimination I experienced with the kaboodle installer. 
Now it’s back to court to prove the finish is not acceptable for the price of the product.

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## YoungBolt

I’d be curious on who installed it as well. 
I’ve not seen too many kaboodle kitchens but I’ve inspected them in Bunnings and they’re hardly anything to sing home about. The only thing I’d buy kaboodle is the cabinet carcasses if they’re cheap enough and source quality fronts from somewhere else. The finish on the white glossy doors are the worst. Bad edges, ripples, patchy colour coverage  
if there’s a problem with the install then you need to go after the installer, if the quality of the doors isn’t up to your standard then you need to try and negotiate with Bunnings to either get a refund or see if they can provide some replacement fronts of maybe a different colour, design and see if it’s up to your expectation.  
Worse comes to worse maybe you can get a refund on the door & drawer fronts and buy a new set from anouther retailer. Kaboodle is all flat pack and standard size so finding “off the shelf” fronts shouldn’t be too hard.  
with regard to the handles, is there any ability to adjust the door alignment enough to makeup for the extra mm or two from the slip over handles?

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## Paula74

The drawer runners and handles were installed by kaboodle under warranty. 
My original  push to open runners would jam so had to be changed to soft close that still dont work properly. 
Bunnings supplied the prestige version of the over the top handles and even though the installer swore in an affidavit that he adjusted all the drawer front to suit they still have rubbed damaging both the handle and the drawers. He did attempt to bend the handles down hitting them with a hammer in his 3rd visit. 
Worse that he deemed the problem with the kitchen was the install but it was his own installation he was calling defective. But his company believed everything he said. 
Ive raised the finish with kaboodle and their response was that by installing the product Ive accepted the quality even though the doors are covered in a protective plastic when you install. 
Bunnings have tried to say that because the invoices generated under a trade account that I was not the original owner. 
Ive even experienced gender discrimination from kaboodle staff and gone through the human rights commission re discrimination 
Absolute night mare.

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## johnc

All I can add follows on from Metrix, the problem with both sets of slides may be simply the binding of the drawers and handles as they try to close, the slides may have been ok. I have installed kaboodle stuff and I am no fan but the carcasses are ok its just the vinyl wrap that seems to be an issue. The installer obviously did not make sufficient allowance for the handles, if he was supplied by Bunnings (Kaboodle) he is probably underpaid and in a hurry to get to the next job, no excuse but there is the problem. 
There is no excuse for gender discrimination, although these days companies usually try to pretend they are on top of those issues and most actually take it quite seriously. That is probably more the individual concerned than Kaboodle and may reflect some frustration at their end. Lastly Kaboodle claims don't hold water if their product is defective then they are responsible, if it isn't fit for purpose and not as advertised in quality then you have a claim against them, regardless of who invoiced who, or who paid at Kaboodle for your cupboards. 
You have gone for a cheap product, you do tend to get what you pay for sadly, next time it would be worth while paying a bit more and finding a local cabinet maker. i would take this as a learning experience and consider getting a cabinet maker in to replace the doors and drawer fronts with something better than the vinyl wrap you bought which is bottom of the basement in quality.

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## Paula74

> All I can add follows on from Metrix, the problem with both sets of slides may be simply the binding of the drawers and handles as they try to close, the slides may have been ok. I have installed kaboodle stuff and I am no fan but the carcasses are ok its just the vinyl wrap that seems to be an issue. The installer obviously did not make sufficient allowance for the handles, if he was supplied by Bunnings (Kaboodle) he is probably underpaid and in a hurry to get to the next job, no excuse but there is the problem. 
> There is no excuse for gender discrimination, although these days companies usually try to pretend they are on top of those issues and most actually take it quite seriously. That is probably more the individual concerned than Kaboodle and may reflect some frustration at their end. Lastly Kaboodle claims don't hold water if their product is defective then they are responsible, if it isn't fit for purpose and not as advertised in quality then you have a claim against them, regardless of who invoiced who, or who paid at Kaboodle for your cupboards. 
> You have gone for a cheap product, you do tend to get what you pay for sadly, next time it would be worth while paying a bit more and finding a local cabinet maker. i would take this as a learning experience and consider getting a cabinet maker in to replace the doors and drawer fronts with something better than the vinyl wrap you bought which is bottom of the basement in quality.

  Hi John 
Thanks for your input.  
Kaboodle isnt a cheap product with the cost of cabinets and panels totalling $8000 then benches etc on top of that cost. 
I have done 4 kaboodle kitchens and have to note an extreme decline in quality in the last few years. 
Deeply regretting my choice of kaboodle at this point and extremely disappointed in bunnings attitude to consumer law.

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## johnc

> Hi John 
> Thanks for your input.  
> Kaboodle isn’t a cheap product with the cost of cabinets and panels totalling $8000 then benches etc on top of that cost. 
> I have done 4 kaboodle kitchens and have to note an extreme decline in quality in the last few years. 
> Deeply regretting my choice of kaboodle at this point and extremely disappointed in bunnings attitude to consumer law.

  I'd agree, the cost is rising the quality dropping, Freedom offer a slightly better product but I do prefer to engage cabinet makers, however if you move to two pack and stone it gets costly fast.

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## YoungBolt

I also wouldn't call Kaboodle kitchens cheap. There's definitely cheaper kitchens out there.  
I think considering that kaboodle gets effectively a free showroom,and free staff to take their orders, I think the cost is on the higher side. Ikea kitchens are slightly cheaper than kaboodle but it's ikea's own product and it's in their own stores. Kaboodle gets a free kick here. Once you consider all the handles, doors, hinges and feet for ikea cabinets, you're about on par with kaboodle.  
I'm surprised at how keen they are to deny your claim and blame you for the issue. Just because you can take ownership of the cabinetry doesnt mean you accept the quality. If I buy a car today and it turns out a week later it's a lemon, I still have recourse to have it repaired/replaced/refunded. 
You certainly have a strong case being that you used their installers and the installer basically admits that it wasn't done to standard. 
If a handle needs to be banged down with a hammer to fit, then it was never the rght handle for the kitchen.
If you've got an old house there is potential that walls are really badly out and the installer has never been taught how to work with warped walls and floors, but that's their job really. Unless you're experiencing some bad floor movements and the house has significantly moved since install.  
I'd lodge a case with your state QCAT and see how they respond. Might be enough for kaboodle to jump into gear and properly deal with the situation. Any case that is heard in civil tribunial gets is logged and released to the public and searchable via google. It's a very bad look and bad press for the company.  
You either need new fronts, new carcasses, new handles and/oror it to be installed by someone who knows waht they're doing. You might want to pay an hour or two's labour for a written professional report from a qualified cabinet maker on the issue. 
You need to build up a case of what is wrong according to you and hopefully back yourself with a expert opinion, and then also prove that youve done to try and rectify the issue before going to have the issue ruled on by a magistrate. Hopefully you have your dealings in written form so it isn't a case of "he said, she said". If not, start writing any future dealings down and inform kaboodle of what your next planned moves are. It's good practice to inform the other party of your intention to have the matter heard by a magistrate, and the other party given the chance to rectify before that happens. Otherwise they could argue at qcat that they weren't provided the opportunity to fix it before you went to court.  
What a crappy outcome!! Good luck with all. 
Keep us up to date with how it all goes?

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## joynz

> The drawer runners and handles were installed by kaboodle under warranty. 
> My original  push to open runners would jam so had to be changed to soft close that still don’t work properly. 
> Bunnings supplied the prestige version of the over the top handles and even though the installer swore in an affidavit that he adjusted all the drawer front to suit they still have rubbed damaging both the handle and the drawers. He did attempt to bend the handles down hitting them with a hammer in his 3rd visit. 
> Worse that he deemed the problem with the kitchen was the install but it was his own installation he was calling defective. But his company believed everything he said. 
> I’ve raised the finish with kaboodle and their response was that by installing the product I’ve accepted the quality even though the doors are covered in a protective plastic when you install. 
> Bunnings have tried to say that because the invoices generated under a trade account that I was not the original owner. 
> I’ve even experienced gender discrimination from kaboodle staff and gone through the human rights commission re discrimination 
> Absolute night mare.

  I’m interested in the trade account issue - which I don’t quite understand. 
 Were the cabinets purchased under your trade account?  Or was it the installer’s account? Or something else?

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## Paula74

> I’m interested in the trade account issue - which I don’t quite understand. 
>  Were the cabinets purchased under your trade account?  Or was it the installer’s account? Or something else?

  Interesting isnt it. 
Bunnings brought it up at mediation which took place prior to QCAT hearing. 
The argued that because the invoices were in the name of the builder I was not the original owner of the kitchen as per kaboodles warranty conditions. 
I used my builders power pass card to obtain the 5% discount at the time of purchase causing the invoices to generate in his name. 
I went into the store to purchase the items and paid with my credit card but both Bunnings and kaboodle argues in court that I wasnt the original owner for the kaboodle warranty. 
The court did rule that under The Australian consumer guarantee law I was the acquirer of the goods but a disgusting attempt by both parties and something to be weary of in future.

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## Paula74

> I also wouldn't call Kaboodle kitchens cheap. There's definitely cheaper kitchens out there.  
> I think considering that kaboodle gets effectively a free showroom,and free staff to take their orders, I think the cost is on the higher side. Ikea kitchens are slightly cheaper than kaboodle but it's ikea's own product and it's in their own stores. Kaboodle gets a free kick here. Once you consider all the handles, doors, hinges and feet for ikea cabinets, you're about on par with kaboodle.  
> I'm surprised at how keen they are to deny your claim and blame you for the issue. Just because you can take ownership of the cabinetry doesnt mean you accept the quality. If I buy a car today and it turns out a week later it's a lemon, I still have recourse to have it repaired/replaced/refunded. 
> You certainly have a strong case being that you used their installers and the installer basically admits that it wasn't done to standard. 
> If a handle needs to be banged down with a hammer to fit, then it was never the rght handle for the kitchen.
> If you've got an old house there is potential that walls are really badly out and the installer has never been taught how to work with warped walls and floors, but that's their job really. Unless you're experiencing some bad floor movements and the house has significantly moved since install.  
> I'd lodge a case with your state QCAT and see how they respond. Might be enough for kaboodle to jump into gear and properly deal with the situation. Any case that is heard in civil tribunial gets is logged and released to the public and searchable via google. It's a very bad look and bad press for the company.  
> You either need new fronts, new carcasses, new handles and/oror it to be installed by someone who knows waht they're doing. You might want to pay an hour or two's labour for a written professional report from a qualified cabinet maker on the issue. 
> You need to build up a case of what is wrong according to you and hopefully back yourself with a expert opinion, and then also prove that youve done to try and rectify the issue before going to have the issue ruled on by a magistrate. Hopefully you have your dealings in written form so it isn't a case of "he said, she said". If not, start writing any future dealings down and inform kaboodle of what your next planned moves are. It's good practice to inform the other party of your intention to have the matter heard by a magistrate, and the other party given the chance to rectify before that happens. Otherwise they could argue at qcat that they weren't provided the opportunity to fix it before you went to court.  
> ...

  Thanks for your input. 
Ive been thought qcat once and it was a nightmare. 
The ruling states the problems with runners was due to poor installation but did not acknowledge it was the manufacturers installation that was at fault. 
It also rules the finish was defective but acceptable for a budget product. 
Im currently going through appeal process and will be getting a cabinet maker to carry out a report. 
Next would have to be a defective works complaint. ;(
Not giving up yet, if I can win it will help others with the same problem as it becomes a know fault.

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## Marc

Why would you believe that anything to do with Bunnings can have a good outcome if there is a problem? 
Bunnings is about selling the lowest possible quality at the highest possible price. Anything else is BS. 
Have you achieved any reparation from the courts?

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## Paula74

> Why would you believe that anything to do with Bunnings can have a good outcome if there is a problem? 
> Bunnings is about selling the lowest possible quality at the highest possible price. Anything else is BS. 
> Have you achieved any reparation from the courts?

  Court ruled the product is faulty but this is acceptable for a budget product which kaboodle is not. 
Going back to appeal in 4 weeks so looking for anyone that has had success dealing with either problem with bunnings or kaboodle so I can show it is a known fault. 
If I can do this it will help anyone else who has this problem

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## Marc

What does that mean? Any product can be faulty regardless of price. Did they assess reparations? Money back? Public shaming? Deportation?  :Smilie:

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## Paula74

> What does that mean? Any product can be faulty regardless of price. Did they assess reparations? Money back? Public shaming? Deportation?

  I know Its frustrating, crazy and not an easy process. 
My claim was dismissed so I have to appeal. 😩

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## phild01

> It also rules the finish was defective but acceptable for a budget product.

  If that is QCAT verbatim then they are certainly amateurs in their profession. Anything sold and assessed as defective cannot be ruled okay because it is 'assumed' a product as being 'budget'. 
Incidentally IMO you will find Ikea to have a better product.

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## David.Elliott

Installed a Kaboodle once...Never again...
In my case the benchtop was bowed front to back and end to end.
there was sticker on the back of a company here in WA. I was surprised to have e problem with what appeared to be their product.
I called them to say I had a problem, at which point they informed me they only did the masons mitre cuts for Bunnies, and I was not the first to call.
Further digging with my customer revealed that the benchtop had been on the floor of his shed for over 8 months, through a winter and summer...

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## METRIX

> The drawer runners and handles were installed by kaboodle under warranty. 
> My original  push to open runners would jam so had to be changed to soft close that still don’t work properly. 
> Bunnings supplied the prestige version of the over the top handles and even though the installer swore in an affidavit that he adjusted all the drawer front to suit they still have rubbed damaging both the handle and the drawers. He did attempt to bend the handles down hitting them with a hammer in his 3rd visit. 
> Worse that he deemed the problem with the kitchen was the install but it was his own installation he was calling defective. But his company believed everything he said. 
> I’ve raised the finish with kaboodle and their response was that by installing the product I’ve accepted the quality even though the doors are covered in a protective plastic when you install. 
> Bunnings have tried to say that because the invoices generated under a trade account that I was not the original owner. 
> I’ve even experienced gender discrimination from kaboodle staff and gone through the human rights commission re discrimination 
> Absolute night mare.

  
Who actually installed it, you said Kaboodle, do they have installers I have never heard of a Kaboodle Installer.
How did you arrange to have the installer was it through Kaboodle or through Bunnings, or did they pass you onto someone who installs kitchens ? 
To me it sounds like a dodgy install, and if he thought it was accceptable to hit the handle with a hammer to adjust it, it definitely sounds like an installer problem. 
I have installed probably 30 Kaboodle kitchens for people and never really had any issues like yours, yes I agree the gloss coatings on the doors are terrible, as i said earlier probably one of the worst thermo doors I have ever seen. 
Yes I have had problems with push to open draw runners failed, but Bunnings replaced these without question, all up I have seen 6 push to open fail, the Kaboodle running gear is of poor quality (to maximise their profits), it's made my DTC and who know who else.
I am used to dealing with BLUM or Hettich, the difference is like black and white, but you pay for this, BLUM is top quality, I have never had one failed BLUM running gear, Hettich is now making stuff in China so naturally the quality has dropped, but it's still 10 times better than Kaboodle stuff. 
Reading the issues, the problems with runners is a Kaboodle problem or caouls be an installer being too rough problem, either way Bunnings should have replaced these.
The handle problem is definitely an installer problem (I guarantee you), the problem with the terrible finish on the doors is a Kaboodle problem. 
Below are a few photos of the same style handle you refereed to I have installed on a few kitchens, some of these were up to 2m long version of the handle, I have never had any issues getting them to work on draws. 
For doors you need to drop the door slightly so the handle doesn't run on the underneath of the benchtop, all easy stuff to get right.
None of the kitchens below are Kaboodle but custom made, installing the handle on any brand kitchen is no different. 
I have also installed those types of handles on Kaboodle stuff with no problems.

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## METRIX

> Hi John 
> Thanks for your input.  
> Kaboodle isn’t a cheap product with the cost of cabinets and panels totalling $8000 then benches etc on top of that cost. 
> I have done 4 kaboodle kitchens and have to note an extreme decline in quality in the last few years. 
> Deeply regretting my choice of kaboodle at this point and extremely disappointed in bunnings attitude to consumer law.

  Kaboodle is not a cheap product, but everything about it is cheaply made.
IKEA is no different, but they do offer better running gear, the thing I hate about IKEA kitchens is the flimsy back they give you and those stupid brackets they use to hold the stuff to the wall, I really wish they would drop that system and go to a solid back. 
For any kitchens I do for clients, I use a kitchen cabinet maker to make them, the price is actually cheaper than Kaboodle, and the quality is 1000 times better.
The doors are always Polyurethane, the quality is of automotive grade finish, never a blemish, never a bubble or anything. 
Personally I don't like thermo doors, not only do they look crap, the thermo peels off after a number of years, something that a poly kitchen will never do.

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## Bros

> Personally I don't like thermo doors, not only do they look crap, the thermo peels off after a number of years,

  I have to differ with you there as I have thermo doors on our cabinets and they are 24 yrs old and don't look like crap and are as good as the day they were installed.

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## phild01

The ones I had done by the biggest Central Coast thermo door supplier are disintegrating and have seen many other kitchens going the same way after maybe 5-10 years. Heat from appliances is their biggest downfall. I wouldn't have them again.

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## METRIX

> The ones I had done by the biggest Central Coast thermo door supplier are disintegrating and have seen many other kitchens going the same way after maybe 5-10 years. Heat from appliances is their biggest downfall. I wouldn't have them again.

  Yep that's what I have seen in most cases of thermo doors around 5-10 years old, probably 7=8 years most when questioned are peeling at the edges, both top and bottom cupboards. 
I installed one for a friend, he wanted the above cupboards lower as his wife was short, I warned against doing this, anyway that's what he wanted. 
1 week, yes 1 week later I went back to see him and the thermo had bubbled and peeled off two of the above doors, I said what happened, his son put the toaster on and the heat peeled the thermo off.
Absolutely terrible product

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## Bros

> I said what happened, his son put the toaster on and the heat peeled the thermo off.
> Absolutely terrible product

  How does the heat of a toaster get on cupboard doors, ours is on the bench top no where near cupboard doors.

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## METRIX

Toaster sits on benchtop, above cupboards sit above benchtop, toaster turn on, heat rises and melts the above cupboards thermo coating. 
It was quite funny, when I was installing them my mate swore these were polyurethane coated as that's what he had asked for.
I said no they are thermo formed that was wht every door had a clear platic film on them that needed removed, you don't get that on poly doors. 
Nah Nah he said these are poly, well 1 week later he found out they were thermo doors  :Smilie:   :Smilie:

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## Bros

> Toaster sits on benchtop, above cupboards sit above benchtop, toaster turn on, heat rises and melts the above cupboards thermo coating.

  OK I get it, we have no cupboards over where we use the toaster.

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## METRIX

> OK I get it, we have no cupboards over where we use the toaster.

  Yep, and because he wanted the above cupboards lower it made the problem happen very quick,I did try to warn him

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## sol381

The kaboodle fittings. hinges, drawer runners etc, are rubbish and so expensive. You can get blum fittings which are by far the best, for a quarter of the price.  A kaboodle kitchen cant be less expensive than going to a cabinetmaker and getting quality fittings with a lifetime guarantee can it.

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## David.Elliott

> Toaster sits on benchtop, above cupboards sit above benchtop, toaster turn on, heat rises and melts the above cupboards thermo coating.  *It was quite funny, when I was installing them my mate swore these were polyurethane coated as that's what he had asked for.
> I said no they are thermo formed that was wht every door had a clear platic film on them that needed removed, you don't get that on poly doors.* 
> Nah Nah he said these are poly, well 1 week later he found out they were thermo doors

  Interesting... I had much the same when installing the one I mentioned...When installing I asked the guy why he chose thermo. He looked at me surprised and stated that Bunnies had assured him they were not vinyl wrap, so I peeled the corner off a scrap, think it was the scribe piece for the end, to prove it...he made me promise not to tell his wife...

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## Paula74

> Who actually installed it, you said Kaboodle, do they have installers I have never heard of a Kaboodle Installer.
> How did you arrange to have the installer was it through Kaboodle or through Bunnings, or did they pass you onto someone who installs kitchens ? 
> To me it sounds like a dodgy install, and if he thought it was accceptable to hit the handle with a hammer to adjust it, it definitely sounds like an installer problem. 
> I have installed probably 30 Kaboodle kitchens for people and never really had any issues like yours, yes I agree the gloss coatings on the doors are terrible, as i said earlier probably one of the worst thermo doors I have ever seen. 
> Yes I have had problems with push to open draw runners failed, but Bunnings replaced these without question, all up I have seen 6 push to open fail, the Kaboodle running gear is of poor quality (to maximise their profits), it's made my DTC and who know who else.
> I am used to dealing with BLUM or Hettich, the difference is like black and white, but you pay for this, BLUM is top quality, I have never had one failed BLUM running gear, Hettich is now making stuff in China so naturally the quality has dropped, but it's still 10 times better than Kaboodle stuff. 
> Reading the issues, the problems with runners is a Kaboodle problem or caouls be an installer being too rough problem, either way Bunnings should have replaced these.
> The handle problem is definitely an installer problem (I guarantee you), the problem with the terrible finish on the doors is a Kaboodle problem. 
> Below are a few photos of the same style handle you refereed to I have installed on a few kitchens, some of these were up to 2m long version of the handle, I have never had any issues getting them to work on draws. 
> ...

  Hi 
Thanks for your input 
Kaboodle installer all the drawer runners under warranty as my push to open would not operate consistently. 
They installed the sold close runners and the handles 
They sent their team out to do the work, these are the guys that would normally do the installation of the kitchens in bunning. 
So stressful thats all I know. 
Heading back to qcat in 4 weeks to appeal

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## Paula74

Kaboodle has argued that the prestige handles can not be used on the kaboodle range due to being thicker. 
I e just spent the last half hour measuring and photographing to find that both are 1mm thick. 
So painful to prove all of this to qcat.

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## phild01

I am finding your plight lacks clarity. I am not understanding how you came across a 'kaboodle' installer! Was the purchase done with their trade account? I suspect the installer was not arranged by Bunnings but perhaps a kaboodle telephone recommendation.
Personally I think your quest with qcat will be difficult if your representation is not clearly and succinctly presented. Can you upload pics (not links) of the issues you are dealing with.

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## Paula74

> I am finding your plight lacks clarity. I am not understanding how you came across a 'kaboodle' installer! Was the purchase done with their trade account? I suspect the installer was not arranged by Bunnings but perhaps a kaboodle telephone recommendation.
> Personally I think your quest with qcat will be difficult if your representation is not clearly and succinctly presented. Can you upload pics (not links) of the issues you are dealing with.

  The works were done under warranty by kaboodle employees. 
Can you tell
Me how to add pictures.

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## phild01

> The works were done under warranty by kaboodle employees. 
> Can you tell
> Me how to add pictures.

  Yes okay but this doesn't say who installed the kitchen and how that arrangement was made. Your comment only relates to warranty work.
This link explains pic uploading https://www.renovateforum.com/f227/h...photos-120536/

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## Marc

Much better than the Kaboodle kitchens.

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## Paula74

> Yes okay but this doesn't say who installed the kitchen and how that arrangement was made. Your comment only relates to warranty work.
> This link explains pic uploading https://www.renovateforum.com/f227/h...photos-120536/

  A license builder installed the kitchen, he has done a lot of work for me and I trust his installation. 
Original had push to open drawers but they would not operate, under warranty kaboodle came out and changed them to soft close but had to add handles as push to open dont have them. 
The guy was lazy and did not want to do the job properly by adjusting all the fronts to fit the over the top handles. 
They came out 3 times in total each time telling their company they had done the job properly so I would have to keep going back to bunning to say it wasnt fixed. 
Bunnings would not act as warranter as per consumer law and kept sending me back to kaboodle who refused to accept their runners were crap and their installers didnt do the job properly. 
I was treated like an idiot by the male installer because Im a woman, even had to file with human rights because of the discrimination. 
Both companies treated me like crap. 
Last resort was to file with Qcat which is an absolute nightmare. 
Thanks for the how to add photos link but it seems it can only be done in a computer and Im on my phone.

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## Paula74

> much better than the kaboodle kitchens.

  much better!!!

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## phild01

> Thanks for the how to add photos link but it seems it can only be done in a computer and I’m on my phone.

  I don't use mobile apps but you might be best advised to use the tapatalk app for the upload of pics...(be good if you remove their incessant signature too).

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## phild01

> A license builder installed the kitchen, he has done a lot of work for me and I trust his installation. 
> Original had push to open drawers but they would not operate, under warranty kaboodle came out and changed them to soft close but had to add handles as push to open don’t have them. 
> The guy was lazy and did not want to do the job properly by adjusting all the fronts to fit the over the top handles.

  Could be your main issue that kaboodle have agreed that the push to close mechs don't work but that could also be due to misalignment of the carcasses by the original installer. I have done kitchens but have never used kaboodle. 
 Kaboodle should not have changed the system of operation to soft close as that was the original design. Instead they should have informed you of a faulty install or conceded that they know their push to open just don't work which I doubt is likely. 
The person who installed over the top handles should never have allowed that option for you as it sound like the whole drawer system would now end up misaligned, 
As I see it the original installer is possibly at fault, then the person who allowed that type of soft close/handle combination is next in line.

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## Paula74

> Could be your main issue that kaboodle have agreed that the push to close mechs don't work but that could also be due to misalignment of the carcasses by the original installer. I have done kitchens but have never used kaboodle. 
>  Kaboodle should not have changed the system of operation to soft close as that was the original design. Instead they should have informed you of a faulty install or conceded that they know their push to open just don't work which I doubt is likely. 
> The person who installed over the top handles should never have allowed that option for you as it sound like the whole drawer system would now end up misaligned, 
> As I see it the original installer is possibly at fault, then the person who allowed that type of soft close/handle combination is next in line.

  Kaboodle is sold as a DIY product yet an experience DIY er that was trained by kaboodle, a builder, a bunnings employee with 5 years experience and kaboodles own staff could not get the push to open to operate consistently. 
Pretty sure the product is rubbish.

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## phild01

> Kaboodle is sold as a DIY product yet an experience DIY er that was trained by kaboodle, a builder, a bunnings employee with 5 years experience and kaboodles own staff could not get the push to open to operate consistently. 
> Pretty sure the product is rubbish.

  Here's the thing, you have said both push to close and the soft close does not work properly. This would happen if the carcass support panels are out of alignment or the drawer assembly is in error, not necessarily a fault of the runners. As I say I have never bothered with Kaboodle but if the carcass panels are pre-dowelled for alignment then Kaboodle is likely at fault, if there is no alignment tool to their assembly then it is the installers fault despite how well trained they say they are. From what you are saying, the initial assembly is misaligned.

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## Paula74

> Here's the thing, you have said both push to close and the soft close does not work properly. This would happen if the carcass support panels are out of alignment or the drawer assembly is in error, not necessarily a fault of the runners. As I say I have never bothered with Kaboodle but if the carcass panels are pre-dowelled for alignment then Kaboodle is likely at fault, if there is no alignment tool to their assembly then it is the installers fault despite how well trained they say they are. From what you are saying, the initial assembly is misaligned.

  Kaboodle is all pre drilled holes and straight forward installation Similar to Ikea.

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## phild01

Why isn't the installer taking this up with Kaboodle, has that person offered any representation on your behalf?

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## phild01

Looking at the instructions https://kaboodle.r.worldssl.net/uplo...structions.pdf then you are right and there should be no issue with runners working properly. Of course this is dependent upon an installation without deviation. This is where your installer needs to attest to all of this. The kabboodle person would also be expected to confirm proper installation and if is so then then kaboodle are at fault and need to rectify to the original intended push to close design with new drawer panels as well, end of story.

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## METRIX

> A license builder installed the kitchen, he has done a lot of work for me and I trust his installation. 
> Original had push to open drawers but they would not operate, under warranty kaboodle came out and changed them to soft close but had to add handles as push to open dont have them. 
> The guy was lazy and did not want to do the job properly by adjusting all the fronts to fit the over the top handles. 
> They came out 3 times in total each time telling their company they had done the job properly so I would have to keep going back to bunning to say it wasnt fixed. 
> Bunnings would not act as warranter as per consumer law and kept sending me back to kaboodle who refused to accept their runners were crap and their installers didnt do the job properly. 
> I was treated like an idiot by the male installer because Im a woman, even had to file with human rights because of the discrimination. 
> Both companies treated me like crap. 
> Last resort was to file with Qcat which is an absolute nightmare. 
> Thanks for the how to add photos link but it seems it can only be done in a computer and Im on my phone.

  As I mentioned above, I have installed a lot of Kaboodle kitchen / Laundry, a fair amount of these had push-to-open, and some failed straight out of the packet, Bunnings had no issue replacing them.
From reading your postings, there is a few problems, firstly if a 1mm handle cannot sit on top of the draw front without touching the draw front above it then the draw faces were installed too close by the original installer. 
Normal clearance between draw faces should be around 2 - 2.5mm, if yours are catching then that's problem number one. 
Problem two is the person who replaced the push-to-open to soft close then proceeded to install the handles without adjusting the draw faces is at fault, hitting with hammer has never solved anything like this. 
Problem three is the quality of the draw runners from Kaboodle is at-best semi reasonable, I would put them in the poor category, deffinetly built to a price, and designed to fail not long after the warranty has run out, funny that so you can go buy another one. 
I know you said the original installer is a Builder, this means nothing, being a Builder does not guarantee you have the necessary skills to install a kitchen properly, a cabinet maker / installer and a Builder are two completely different people, and yes anyone can install a flatpak kitchen, but not everyone can get it made and installed to fine tolerance to ensure no future problems occur. 
Kitchens have very narrow tolerances (DIY kitchens have more tolerance than one built by a cabinet maker because they expect a DIY to not have the skills to get everything within sub mm accuracy). 
I am not saying your Builder did not have the skills required, but sounds like he did not perform the original installation to a high standard. 
I use do do a lot of work for a Builder specifically installing kitchens when they were remodelling houses, reason being is even though they were builders and carpenters, they did not have the patience and skills to do a kitchen so they used to get me in, they were quite upfront about it, I had no problem doing the work as it really quite easy to get them done, but there is a lot of fine tolerances that need to be kept from start to finish.

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## phild01

Metrix you are right about fine tolerances but the flat pack instructions seem to show everything should connect accurately. A Kaboodle warranty guy should be able to see if the tolerances ie square and measurements are indeed correct. I don't know what runners are used by kaboodle but I do recall once buying no brand runners that did not work properly and I can't help but agree with you seems kaboodle are using sh**. Blum are great but other top brands work well too. The Ikea ones I used presented no problems either. I'd be interested in what Kabbodle use then.

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## johnc

The problem here is that Kaboodle are actively avoiding any liability and the installer is in Kaboodles corner. Paula, as she is clearly aware, needs to convince the tribunal that Kaboodle have an obligation to rectify and the standard of finish is not acceptable. It's a bit like flipping a coin, you can't be certain of the outcome other than there is only two possibilities.

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## phild01

Paula, at least take a video clip to the hearing showing how the drawers are not working properly and how badly the Kaboodle representative stuffed up the handles and drawer fit. Also people doing searches for Kaboodle can easily end up reading this thread. Kaboodle might take interest in what others are saying if you wish to alert their customer service line.

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## Marc

Kaboodle Kitchens review ... take a hammer with you to complete installation.  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> Metrix you are right about fine tolerances but the flat pack instructions seem to show everything should connect accurately. A Kaboodle warranty guy should be able to see if the tolerances ie square and measurements are indeed correct. I don't know what runners are used by kaboodle but I do recall once buying no brand runners that did not work properly and I can't help but agree with you seems kaboodle are using sh**. Blum are great but other top brands work well too. The Ikea ones I used presented no problems either. I'd be interested in what Kabbodle use then.

  Kaboodle use DTC branded runners and hinges, DTC do make some nice stuff (not a lot but some) they also make a lot of crap, the draw runners and hinges Kaboodle source for their kitchens from what I have seen of them would fall in the cheap crap range. 
There are plenty of other cheap brands out there to use that are cheaper and better quality than the Kaboodle offering. 
Cabinetmaker kitchens will typically use BLUM, Hafelle, Grass, KIA ORA not only because they don't want the product to fail, but mainly because they work out of the box.
I have already posted information on here regarding the various hinges available from Bunnings, specifically the Hettich ones listed below. 
To show you how expensive Kaboodle stuff is look at the below, all can be purchased from Bunnings.
Anyone who knows even the slightest about the Kaboodle product won't purchase Kaboodle hardware, especially when you walk down a different Bunning's isle and purchase a far superior product for cheaper price, and these are Bunnings retail price, you can get these a lot cheaper if you know where to shop.   
Kaboodle DTC Soft close hinges 10 pair pack $140 that's $14 a pair, SERIOUS RIPOFF for a hinge of this quality, these should be around $2.00 retail.     
Chinese made Hafele Soft Close 5 pair pack $30.50 so 10 pairs $61 that's less then half the price of the Kaboodle, even though these are Chinese Hafele they are still 5 times better quality than the Kaboodle stuff.     
Hafelel / Salice made in Italy 5 set pack $61 so 10 sets $122 (this is not cheap by any means) still cheaper than the Kaboodle offering, this hinge will outlast the kitchen
This particular hinge is rated for over 80,000 cycles the Chinese version above 40,000 the Kaboodle branded hinge, open close cycles not stated.    
If you really feel like getting ripped off by Kaboodle then you can option for their "premium" Hettich hinges, these are a whopping $236 for a 10 pack  :Eek:   :Eek:   :Eek:   :Eek:  this is highway robbery.
For $4 more, you can buy 20 sets of the above Italian made Salice / Hettich soft close.

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## METRIX

> As I say I have never bothered with Kaboodle but if the carcass panels are pre-dowelled for alignment then Kaboodle is likely at fault, if there is no alignment tool to their assembly then it is the installers fault despite how well trained they say they are. From what you are saying, the initial assembly is misaligned.

  Kaboodle don't use dowels to align their carcass systems, because that would cost more to implement, they simply use pre drilled screw holes, if done incorrectly (which is easily done) the carcass will be out of alignment, on a cupboard this is ok, on a draw carcass it's unacceptable and can cause issues.
1 or 2mm out of alignment here and there, which is easily achievable with their carcasses, actually you can easily get them out by 3mm if your not careful, all these little "out of alignments" can make a huge difference to the final product.

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## havabeer

I originally thought about a kaboodle kitchen. The only thing they have going for it is the ease of "off the shelf" for everything you need. 
Quality seemed like a @@@@, even half the stuff in the displays is normally pizzled. 
After watching a specific kitchen mob come in and install our kitchen i'd have no issues paying to get it done properly again. They also won't use anything but blumm because they dont want the warranty hassles.

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## METRIX

> Also people doing searches for Kaboodle can easily end up reading this thread. Kaboodle might take interest in what others are saying if you wish to alert their customer service line.

  I agree, I will always post on here where Aussies are getting ripped off, because I hate seeing these companies rip off the consumer.

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## METRIX

> I originally thought about a kaboodle kitchen. The only thing they have going for it is the ease of "off the shelf" for everything you need. 
> Quality seemed like a @@@@, even half the stuff in the displays is normally pizzled. 
> After watching a specific kitchen mob come in and install our kitchen i'd have no issues paying to get it done properly again. They also won't use anything but blumm because they dont want the warranty hassles.

  Yep, they sell the illusion of doing it yourself in a weekend, YOU get the satisfaction of "I did it" and I saved money doing it. 
Ahh sorry to say none of the above is true

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## Paula74

> I agree, I will always post on here where Aussies are getting ripped off, because I hate seeing these companies rip off the consumer.

  Metrix 
Any chance you r a south Brisbane local, I desperately need an expert to writ e a report to help my case. 
If I can win this it will set a president for kaboodle warranty and future claims.

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## METRIX

> The Ikea ones I used presented no problems either. I'd be interested in what Kabbodle use then.

  Kaboodle draw runners are also of DTC brand, as shown above these are also very expensive to buy their version.
These "side mount" runners are a crap design to start with, but there are some semi-decent brands out there, overall this is a poor design draw runner, they have very small plastic bits which are easily broken and are not designed to last.  
Lets look at these, single set $30.45    
Six pack $175   
Push to open version $41.69    
Bunnings stocked Goliath branded product, quality is a step up from the Kaboodle stuff but still not what I would call quality , this is reflected in the price which is $17.40 as opposed to $41.69 for the same sized Kaboodle.

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## METRIX

> Metrix 
> Any chance you r a south Brisbane local, I desperately need an expert to writ e a report to help my case. 
> If I can win this it will set a president for kaboodle warranty and future claims.

  Sorry I am in Sydney.

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## Paula74

Are there any cabinet makers / builders experience with kitchens on the brisbane Southside that could do a report for a reasonable fee.

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## phild01

Paula, from what has been said IMO the problem was resting with your installer not returning what appears to be faulty runners. Your kaboodle warranty guy said this was the problem. So apparently that is a statement of fact. The kaboodle person tried to rectify the faulty runners with a type that operate differently but a misfit for the original install, and that is an error on kaboodle's part. Why won't the original installer deal with this, it might be he is the one you need to go to tribunal about.

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## Paula74

Kaboodle are the installer or the faulty runners and the installer of the replacement runners. 
I originally had the kaboodle push to open runners in December 2018 there repeatedly failed to operate, bunning came out and inspect and assured correct installation done by them, still wouldnt work. 
Bunning organised kaboodle to come out and replace my kitchen he push to open with soft close and install handles. 
This was done poorly and the handles rub on the drawer above and the drawer runners do not close without prompting and are stiff. 
The original installer in my case is kaboodle under warranty. 
They dont want to admit their product is rubbish or that their installer did not do the job properly so I had to file with qcat for a consumer problem of defective product. 
Next step will be the additional defective works compliant with qcat agains the company as they supplied the installation of the runners and handles.

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## phild01

Sorry Paula but the installer makes no sense to me:  

> A license builder installed the kitchen, he has done a lot of work for me and I trust his installation.

     

> I used my builders power pass card to obtain the 5% discount at the time of purchase causing the invoices to generate in his name..

  This makes me wonder if it was a Bunnings employee that was doing the work in a way as a favour. Otherwise you should have forms of documentation outlining terms and warranty.
Why wasn't the invoicing in your name if it was your power pass.

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## Paula74

Bunnings came out under warranty because the product would not work that is my right as a consumer to get the place of purchase to act as a warranty provider. 
Never said it was my power pass account I said I used my builders power pass account to get the discount but paid with my credit card at time of purchase, bunnings claimed in qcat that I was not the original owner of the kitchen under warranty, thankfully qcat decided I was after I provided credit card statement. 
Under Australian consumer guarantee Bunning is the warranty provider and can not pass the problems off to the manufacturer  which is what they continually do. 
Bunnings also mid represent the kaboodle as a basic DIY product which is all pre drilled then claim installation for faults. 
If a skilled DIYER a builder a bunnings employee and kaboodle cant install this then it is not fit for purpose.

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## phild01

Sorry this time around I misinterpreted whose power pass card it was.  
I know you had a warranty claim but I am asking about the original installer who you said has done a lot of work for you. That person should be dealing with the issue. 
I am referring to the original installer, so not the people who came out for warranty, but the installer who started the whole installation.  That person should have been your first person of contact to remedy the faults. 
As I understand all of this, your builder, not bunnings, not kaboodle, but the person who does work for you, used their power pass for the purchase and did the installation. 
Then bunnings/kaboodle attempted warranty repair which they identified the runners at fault, or did they identify some other issue was the problem. I have assumed they have claimed the push to close runners were at fault and why they tried soft close runners.

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## Paula74

It is a consumer issue that is why it is bunning that is responsible, they are the supplier and under Australian consumer law responsible. 
The runners are faulty so a consumer problem. The panels, door panels etc are riddled with manufacturing faults so again bunnings is responsible as the supplier. 
The builder/ installer  are not responsible for faulty products

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## phild01

I think all the issues could be better dealt with if your trusted builder or you took the faulty parts back to bunnings for exchange.

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## Paula74

As its already part of legal proceedings and bunnings refused to allow exchange thats not possible and again as per my consumer rights they would have to pay for the Re  installation.

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## phild01

Not so sure about that. Your builder accepted the quality and continued with it and that may well be the view given by the tribunal. I still think your issues are with your builder and perhaps yourself for not inspecting the product before installing. But for what was done by way of warranty may well be what needs addressing at your next tribunal meeting. 
What about just buying a panel you are happy with and take that and what you have to the tribunal for comparison. Afterwards you can return the panel for refund and panels are easy to remove.

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## Paula74

You have to install the runners before you would know they are faulty and the panels have a clear plastic protector that states is not to be removed until installation is completed so there is no way of knowing the product is that defective. 
Thankfully the court has ruled that I am right in this and that a product should be free from defect for at least 10 years. 
I now have to prove how defective it is and am gathering witness statements to show the finish is horrific and need a builders report to show the runners are not fit for purpose. 
Getting there.

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## phild01

Fair points you just made. With the hearing it is good to be clear and concise with what you present, a matter of getting them to side with you. Has your builder offered a written assessment of the product or prepared to be present with you at the hearing.

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## Paula74

> Fair points you just made. With the hearing it is good to be clear and concise with what you present, a matter of getting them to side with you. Has your builder offered a written assessment of the product or prepared to be present with you at the hearing.

  Builder was ready and willing to testify at the first hearing but I was refused the right to call on him. 
Not exactly a fair trial hence my right to appeal. 
He has written a full statement which includes a assessment of the product. 
I also have several other written statements that attest to how bad the finish is. 
It does not meet the standards and tolerance test and I have the QBCC investigating this and the kaboodle installer. 
Hope to win in appeal other wise its a defective works claim against the works carried out by kaboodle.

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## snowyskiesau

Having just installed a Kaboodle kitchen myself. I also found the finish on the formed doors to be very poor for the price so went with 'raw' doors. These are melamine coated on the inside and unfinished MDF on the outside. I was going to get them spray painted but ended up getting an good finish with a foam roller.
No other issue with the Kaboodle stuff except for the corner cupboard hinge. These are not really strong enough to hold the double corner doors without sagging badly.
The clips for the kickboards are way overpriced so ended up 3D printing my own.
Next task is the rangehood.

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## phild01

_Hi snow__, can you please change your profile location from home to be more specific, state level as a minimum. It helps with regs, services, products etc for advice._

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## dvn8

Hi,
I am currently doing Kaboodle kitchen for my home. This is my 2nd time as I done once few years ago on other property that I sold. It well fine except the laminated benchtops joint that got a bit warped from water damage (corner benches). 
This time I will only do cupboards and drawers from Kaboodle and the stone bench top from elsewhere. 
It have been progressing well until those soft close drawer runners giving me major issues as won't close properly and had to return some back to Bunnings for replacement, and the replacements are useless. So I am looking for a better quality brand than those garbage piece of trash. First time I used those soft close drawer runners. 
What brand should I get and where can I get them from? 
Thanks      

> Kaboodle draw runners are also of DTC brand, as shown above these are also very expensive to buy their version.
> These "side mount" runners are a crap design to start with, but there are some semi-decent brands out there, overall this is a poor design draw runner, they have very small plastic bits which are easily broken and are not designed to last.  
> Lets look at these, single set $30.45    
> Six pack $175   
> Push to open version $41.69    
> Bunnings stocked Goliath branded product, quality is a step up from the Kaboodle stuff but still not what I would call quality , this is reflected in the price which is $17.40 as opposed to $41.69 for the same sized Kaboodle.

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## johnc

Blum, Hafele and Hettich all supply good quality runners.

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## Tools

Hopefully you can find stock as there is a shortage of cabinet hardware at the moment. 
Tools

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## David.Elliott

I just purchased 7 sets (pairs) of bottom mount ball bearing slides at 450 long for $85.00 from Artia. Rated to 45kg and quality appears great.\ https://artia.com.au/catalogsearch/r...runners&page=2

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## dvn8

> I just purchased 7 sets (pairs) of bottom mount ball bearing slides at 450 long for $85.00 from Artia. Rated to 45kg and quality appears great.\ https://artia.com.au/catalogsearch/r...runners&page=2

  Are those push to open runners?  
The one I found are Gslide push-to-open ball-bearing runner, bottom-mount (pair) (artia.com.au) for $34.58 
I had a look at Blum products and those sells for $112 a pair for Blum Movento runners. A little expensive for me, as I need 23 sets. 
Any good options out there for budget prices?

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## dvn8

Drawer Systems :: Drawer Slides :: 500mm King Slide Soft Closing Full Extension Side Mount Drawer Runner with Lifetime Warranty (wilbrad.com.au) 
Is this a good quality runner?

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## David.Elliott

I called Artia and found the guys really helpful. I would suggest a call and asking for help with 23 sets pricewise would be worth the time..

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