# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Toyota hiace or Hyundai iload?

## Micky013

Hi guys 
I'm about to buy a van for work (carpenter) - finance is currently being approved but I've been given a guide of max 40k borrowing.  
Now, I'm looking to stay between 25 and 30k and you can pick up some pretty decent Klm vans for that money (new is 40k for both).  
Just wondering if anyone has either of these vans and what your thoughts are. My gut says Toyota but maybe iload would be more practical- shorter slightly fatter and has 2 doors?? 
Both would be turbo diesel options with roof racks etc 
Look forward to hearing your thoughts! 
Michael.   
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## SilentButDeadly

Don't borrow on a used van. They depreciate like a shot duck carrying an improvised explosive device. You'll end up paying 50 grand for a van that's worth a fiver. Just buy an older used van for cash...ok it might be a really used van but at least you won't be cleansed through the sphincter for it. 
Go chase a mid noughties Hiace and then​ get the seat reupholstered so it is actually a pleasant thing to drive (something the modern Hiace is not). Never borrow any money for a used iLoad...you'll just add an extra s,h and t to it.

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## Micky013

> Don't borrow on a used van. They depreciate like a shot duck carrying an improvised explosive device. You'll end up paying 50 grand for a van that's worth a fiver. Just buy an older used van for cash...ok it might be a really used van but at least you won't be cleansed through the sphincter for it. 
> Go chase a mid noughties Hiace and then​ get the seat reupholstered so it is actually a pleasant thing to drive (something the modern Hiace is not). Never borrow any money for a used iLoad...you'll just add an extra s,h and t to it.

  What if I was to go new? I really don't want to buy a s&$ty older van especially if I want to get signage done on it and racked out to carry what I need. Dunno....  
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## METRIX

Buy new, you will write all costs off under your business, don't bother with shyte 2nd hand these are not tax write off friendly unless very low Km, ie: Demonstrator
Lease it rather than full outright, there is no advantage of buying outright if it's a work vehicle all the payments are tax deductible as is everything else you spend on it as it's a tool of your trade. 
I lease and keep them for 3-4 years, then get rid of them for a new one again, have done for years, *speak to your accountant* about which leasing option is the best as these change with tax rule changes all the time,* if you don't have an accountant get one who is good with business expenses*. 
At 4 years the vehicle is still worth a lot of $$, and you don't have to worry about out of warranty stuff, sell it privately and re lease a new one, before you know it you will be able to purchase one outright if that's what you want. 
Your vehicle is a reflection of you and your work, drive some old shyte thing and people perceive your work is shyte, the one thing I will say it whatever you buy, look after it, this will help when time comes to sell. 
I know a lot of guys who have switched from utes to iLoads and they love them (mainly plumbers), personally I don't like vans due to the restricted vision, unable to carry large longer loads of timber and the inconvenience of getting stuff on and off the roof, but they do keep your tools dry when it's raining. 
Van's do have their use but not for me, I prefer to be able to throw a load of dirt, mulch, rubble etc in the back when needed, carry petrol / gas containers etc outside which is something I would not like to do inside a van.  
I have been in the new Hiace is not a very nice vehicle to be in, and is under powered IMO, yes it's reliable but all the guys I know with ILoad's have nothing but good things to say about them. 
One good thing with Utes, is you can keep swapping the toolboxes from ute to ute, signage usually needs updating for each vehicle and is a small cost each time you trade.

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## MorganGT

Personally I'd recommend the Hiace. We've had experience in our small fleet with Hiaces, VW Transporters and a Renault Trafic. The Hiaces seem to be the only ones that still have reasonable resale value after a few years, and seem to be cheaper to service and maintain than the Euro stuff. I don't have any direct experience with the iLoad, but there is one advantage to the Hiace over all the other stuff - because it is a 'traditional' van where you sit over the front wheels rather than behind them, you get a lot more cargo space in the back than the competition. My current Trafic is a long wheelbase version, but still has maybe 8-10 inches less length inside the cargo area than a Hiace, which is maybe 18" shorter on the outside than the Trafic.
My current Trafic is rapidly becoming a rattly piece of junk at 180,000kms and is going soon to be replaced with a Hiace - a previous Hiace I had was traded at about 300,000kms for $17,000 despite having suffered $19,000 worth of structural damage by being rear-ended by a car at 60km/h, and it still drove straight and rattle-free after the crash.

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## Micky013

Thanks a lot guys. Did a bit more research today on these 2 and it seems as though iload has gained a massive following with all the features they have.  
I can't seem to look past the massive 6 cubes of space in the hiace though. Could probably get used to drive (will need to test one obviously), however its only to and from site so hopefully won't be that noticeable. I am upgrading from a 74 hj holden so anything will be more comfortable and practical than that haha.     
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## ringtail

Ahhh, the new vs older debate. Any decent accountant will advise to never buy new. Buy second hand for cash.  All expenses are deductible exactly the same as a new vehicle and depending on how desperate the Gov is you may be able to right the entire purchase off. The upside is it costs a hell of a lot less to own a older vehicle. All the new guys go and buy /lease a flash vehicle and then go broke. Instant black listed credit rating. You still have to service the loan. You want your business expenses to be as little as possible and buying or leasing a new car should be the bottom of your list. As long as the vehicle is neat,tidy and presentable no customer will know whether it's a 2017 or 2007 model. My van is 2005 and is the same as the current one to look at. Your appearance, attitude and how you carry yourself and communicate is far more important that what vehicle you drive.

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## SilentButDeadly

> Your appearance, attitude and how you carry yourself and communicate is far more important that what vehicle you drive.

  As a customer, this, this, a thousand times this. 
I engaged a concreter/carpenter not long back . They showed up in a pair of hammered dual cab utes. One of the utes was literally​ hammered (you could see the hammer marks). But the set out and the finish was the equal of anything I have ever seen (until the little bloke walked on it just a minute after they left). But if I were to judge these blokes on their vehicles...I'd have lost. 
My sparkie drives a Hiace with franchise/booking agency livery but I know the Hiace is well used and abused. But the livery looks good. Good thing I know he's a decent sparkie even before he hooked up with the franchise... 
Buy what you can afford, not what your customers think you can afford...or worse, what you'd like to think your customers think you can afford...

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## Micky013

Cheers guys. I agree 100% with what your saying having got a couple jobs recently purely based on attitude and customer interaction.  
Current financial situation dictates how I purchase my new vehicle. I have no cash to purchase an older vehicle outright. Come end of July I will have a nice chunk on cash in the bank from my last tax return as an employee, along with the wife's return and any other gov benefits coming our way - that will be my buffer when I start out as a contractor.  
Silly or not this is how it's gonna work in the beginning.  
I can't afford to have the burden of vehicle finance from a dealership so have found a local credit union with much lower rates, longer finance period and lower repayments. Other option is to increase the mortgage (which is my preference). Basically no change in repayments and I can purchase a vehicle that, if I choose will last me sometime or until I have generated a big enough cash flow to warrant leasing on short terms (if that's what I need to minimise tax etc etc).   
I'm not buying new to be flashy or because I think I'll look better but purely because it's easier to get finance for and I will have a car for the long term if I so choose. As mentioned, I may change my approach if I'm successful or I might just be happy with what I have.     
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## sol381

> Ahhh, the new vs older debate. Any decent accountant will advise to never buy new. Buy second hand for cash.  All expenses are deductible exactly the same as a new vehicle and depending on how desperate the Gov is you may be able to right the entire purchase off. The upside is it costs a hell of a lot less to own a older vehicle. All the new guys go and buy /lease a flash vehicle and then go broke. Instant black listed credit rating. You still have to service the loan. You want your business expenses to be as little as possible and buying or leasing a new car should be the bottom of your list. As long as the vehicle is neat,tidy and presentable no customer will know whether it's a 2017 or 2007 model. My van is 2005 and is the same as the current one to look at. Your appearance, attitude and how you carry yourself and communicate is far more important that what vehicle you drive.

  Indeed and if you buy from a dealership you can claim back the GST.

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## ringtail

If you can redraw from the mortgage it's the cheapest money you'll ever get. Older cars have already done pretty much all the depreciating their going to do at someone elses expense. The only positive I can see in buying a new DIESEL vehicle is the protection of warranty. Doesn't apply nearly as much with a petrol as the cost to repair a petrol is next to nil in comparison.

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## ringtail

> Indeed and if you buy from a dealership you can claim back the GST.

  Tis what I did.

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## METRIX

Sound's like some of your accountant's are like my previous accountant that was living in the stone age and didn't know or wan't to know half the stuff that was claimable, that's why I found a new one. 
Was going to go into detail of the last 4 cars I have had, what they cost and what I leased and sold them for, no point the doubters will always be doubters so keep doubting, if you tell yourself something enough times you end up believing it. 
You need to look at the car as a business not a liability, yes you do lose money when you drive it out of the dealership everyone knows that but you lose money on everything you buy so no surprises there, that is why you buy specific vehicles which have high resale value. 
I have always had 4WD SR5 Hilux, XR6T, 4WD XLT Ranger etc not because they look nice, not because I'm trying to put on an image or because that's what I think my customers want to see, that has nothing to do with it, that is exactly the thinking of people who don't understand the vehicle is just another business tool not a liability, you are not only buying a car to use for work, you are buying it for it's resale value when you have finished with it, come on guys the car is an asset, the idea is to have that asset worth as much as possible. 
I have these vehicles purely because they hold their value much more than an entry level model or basic 2WD version, and when it comes time to sell you will always get a higher price for these types of vehicles not only from tradies looking for a 2nd hand vehicle, but from the Mum's and Dad's wanting a few year old 4WD vehicle that has never been offroad, don't come back with why would you have a 4WD if it's never going to go offroad, your missing the point. 
 Mums & Dads are not interested in an entry level ute they target specific models, they want one that is on par with their sedan, you don't wan't to limit your selling potential to one specific group of people or worst still give it to a dealer this is why I always get 4WD versions and always look after them. 
Also speak to the fleet manager, not the regular dealer, you will get fleet discount even if it's one car your buying.
Also you never get finance from a Dealer, this is the worst thing you can do, get it from a financier, much better rates and deals. 
Anyway enough said on this subject from me, you can't change the minds of some who don't want to believe there is other way's of doing something or think if someone has something nice they must be doing something dodgy or is a showoff, it's about thinking outside the square.

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## sol381

Indeed there are many ways to skin a cat..Youre right in saying you must minimize the loss on your vehicle.. Those cars you mentioned do seem to hold value.. I recently had my car written off after some knuckle head t boned me at a set of lights..was a 2010 triton bought for 17 grand.. Insurance paid out 19,500..lucky me.. I bought a 2013 triton had 60,000km for 24 grand..I put 10 grand on and financed the rest at a very good rate. I figure 14 grand in my pocket better than theirs.. Interest is about $600 a year over 4 years. I can claim the interest back so really not costing much at all. Ill probably upgrade in 5 years and hopefully the car will hold some value. personally i couldn't see myself buying a work car for 50 grand.. Sure you can claim a lot but still have to outlay that amount. I dont really understand leasing so i dont do it. One problem with leasing ive heard is you cant change the car.. Put a new stereo in or racks or tow bar. 
Anyway to each his own.. Certainly need a decent accountant to advise tho.. We are lowly tradesmen, not financial advisors.

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## cyclic

> Buy new, you will write all costs off under your business, don't bother with shyte 2nd hand these are not tax write off friendly unless very low Km, ie: Demonstrator
> Lease it rather than full outright, there is no advantage of buying outright if it's a work vehicle all the payments are tax deductible as is everything else you spend on it as it's a tool of your trade. 
> .

  While I agree all costs of running a business are a tax deduction, you should never buy or lease anything just to save tax.
An Accountant will tell you at years end that you have saved $10000 in tax, but what they don't tell you is, it cost you $30000 to save that $10000.
Reason being if you have a Company, then the tax rate is 30%, meaning for every $10000 you spend running your business, you only get $3000 back when leasing.
Spend $30000 get $10000 back.
Sure, you claim all costs, but you only get the TAX back.
Same with Pay As You Go, tax is actually 30% on $100,000 income up to $175,000.
If you have purchased, then you get back the GST (1/11th of the purchase price) outright at the end of the quarter in which you claim
 i.e March/June/September/December, plus depreciation every year, usually 20+%, plus all costs of running the vehicle, provided, said vehicle is over 1 tonne capacity.
If not, then you stand to lose 25% of all costs for personal use unless you keep a log book.. 
Which vehicle do you buy ? no idea, but new vehicles usually lose half the vehicles value over 3 years.

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## METRIX

> Indeed there are many ways to skin a cat..Youre right in saying you must minimize the loss on your vehicle.. Those cars you mentioned do seem to hold value.. I recently had my car written off after some knuckle head t boned me at a set of lights..was a 2010 triton bought for 17 grand.. Insurance paid out 19,500..lucky me.. I bought a 2013 triton had 60,000km for 24 grand..I put 10 grand on and financed the rest at a very good rate. I figure 14 grand in my pocket better than theirs.. Interest is about $600 a year over 4 years. I can claim the interest back so really not costing much at all. Ill probably upgrade in 5 years and hopefully the car will hold some value. personally i couldn't see myself buying a work car for 50 grand.. Sure you can claim a lot but still have to outlay that amount. I dont really understand leasing so i dont do it. One problem with leasing ive heard is you cant change the car.. Put a new stereo in or racks or tow bar. 
> Anyway to each his own.. Certainly need a decent accountant to advise tho.. We are lowly tradesmen, not financial advisors.

  I said I wasn't going to say any more, but this is utter crap, cant put a towbar or racks are your serious, this is exactly the miss information you have been fed, putting a new stereo in it who want's to do that anyway the latest stereos from about 2003 on wards are fine and all factory fit anyway, that's old thinking for old cars whose stereos were crap. 
How do you expect to do any work with the vehicle if you can't fit accessories to do the job, these are standard fitment to any work vehicle as is a toolbox, the leasing companies know that. 
Being a lowly tradesman is also rubbish, we are not the experts in this field that's why you have someone who is, do you hire an accountant to build you a deck, No you hire a builder. 
Also there is no need to lay out 50K on the vehicle this is why you lease it and pay it off over said years, having to forkout a big chunk of money be it 20K or 60K on a vehicle is old school and not everyone has a lazy 20K lying around and if you did I wouldn't be spending it on a car, you set the lease up with payments which you are happy with, and go earn money to pay for it, same as you do for a house. 
Mention was made of flashy new guys going broke car taken away, wake up guys it's no different if you don't make the mortgage repayments.

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## ringtail

I think you're missing the point. Everything you said is true. However, the idea of been in business is to minimise ones debts and liability. Having a shiny new vehicle is nice and all but it's still a whopping big debt and liability regardless of how it's paid for. Young fellas new to the game get themselves into all sorts of trouble by buying/leasing/financing a new vehicle. What if works dries up. What if you break a leg or get crook. What if the missus leaves you. What if............... Life is unpredictable and not hanging ones rrse out for kicking is, or should be, priority number one for all business owners but tradies starting off in particular. You are very fortunate to be able to afford the payments on these vehicles probably even if work stops for a whole year. Most are just not in that position. $400 a month on a frikken car is madness. Buy second hand, buy quality, keep it for a long time. The claimable expenses on a second hand vehicle are absolutely identical to a new one so there is no advantage to buying new in that respect. Hmmm, festool or bosch. One is half the price of the other yet does the job just fine. When it all turns to poo you want to own everything you have and not owe a cent to anyone. Sure, there is a risk in buying second hand, particularly diesels but that sort of thing doesn't apply to me. Unskilled people have to assess that risk though and maybe having the 3/5 year warranty is worth buying new for the mechanically retarded. There is a boatload of cash to be saved over the life of a second hand vehicle.

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## sol381

Dont know why youre getting pissed off with me im just passing on info ive been told.. Ive been told by many that you cant make additions to leased cars.. Ive never leased a car and prob never will so i left it at that. Youre point about lowly tradesman is exactly what i meant. Being lowly tradesmen is  in terms of financial matters not what we do.. We arent supposed to know about these things. I pay an accountant to tell me what to do. Now my triton is 2013 and the speakers and stereo were crap..Thats why i took my old one out and replaced it. 
Also i said BUYING a car like some do, NOT leasing.

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## METRIX

The idea of being in business is not only to lower your liability but to also make money to pay the bills, but you won't get anywhere if you never go into debt for somethings.  
So your saying it's unacceptable for a tradie even a young one to have the ability to put aside to put aside approximately $20 per day to finance a $400 a month lease bill, come on who are you kidding, that's $20, leasing actually takes the burdon of owning the car. 
If I had a 20K lying around to start a business, I would be sorting out my insurances first, getting the right set of basic tools then looking at a vehicle last. 
That's nothing, I know plenty of people who have over $800-900K mortgages now that is crazy, I could not sleep knowing I owe that sort of money on something, even at 3.69% that's $3677 per month, now that's scary and is quite common nowadays. 
Yes life is unpredictable, part of doing this job is the unpredictability, if you want predictability get out now and go work for McDonalds or Bunnings. 
Ahh yes the what if's, what if ISIS come here and start popping off tradies, what if Nth Korea send missiles our way, what is the world explodes tomorrow what if what if, can't live your life around what if's, live it around making informed decisions and what you are prepared to sacrifice to get what you want. 
There is things called income protection insurance for a what if you get sick, these are standard costs for running your own business, if you don't have them your mad.
Also not everyone is fortunate like yourself, that they can service their own vehicle, for us that can't we have to rely on someone else to do that, again just another cost of owning a car new or second hand.

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## METRIX

> Dont know why youre getting pissed off with me im just passing on info ive been told.. Ive been told by many that you cant make additions to leased cars.. Ive never leased a car and prob never will so i left it at that. Youre point about lowly tradesman is exactly what i meant. Being lowly tradesmen is  in terms of financial matters not what we do.. We arent supposed to know about these things. I pay an accountant to tell me what to do. Now my triton is 2013 and the speakers and stereo were crap..Thats why i took my old one out and replaced it. 
> Also i said BUYING a car like some do, NOT leasing.

  I'm not getting peed off at you, I'm just said what you have been told is crap, and why people automatically say that's no good doing it that way, because they have been told wrong information by others who don't know themselves. 
Anyway this conversation is going nowhere, I have plenty of things to go do. 
Waiting for the Tolls to turn up, I see them look at this tread.

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## pharmaboy2

Lots of feeling here.  Either way, it's up to you.   Young blokes are however a bit more likely to borrow for the flash truck because they don't have the experience of leaner times, and I think that's what the mature members here are saying. 
on vehicles and first impressions, I once had a guy come past to quote on an excavation, rolled up in a brand new lowered q7 with aftermarket wheels - $150k vehicle?  When I got the quote I couldn't help but wonder how much was paying for his lifestyle - I went with the lower quote. 
real estate agents are awesome at that as well - spend 1/4 of their income on leasing mercs and 5 series, trying to look successful. 
as an ex accountant, leasing versus hire purchase is little different these days, but talking to an accountant about your own situation is wise, eg whether GST is relevant to you or type of vehicle for FBT (1 tonne load capacity etc etc)

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## Micky013

So what's better you reckon hiace or iload? lol. That escalated quickly  
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## johnc

There are certainly plenty of views and it really depends on the individual. My view is you are often better off buying new, keep it maintained and running it for the warranty period then trading it if you do high K's. However there are plenty of sound reasons to buy pre-owned in good condition, keeping them until they cease to be reliable and flogging them off for zip, then rinse and repeat. I do not like lease you never own the vehicle and payments are higher than if you have a reasonable deposit from your trade-in, I prefer Hire Purchase (Chattel mortgage is the same beast slightly different flavour) with zero balloon payment at the end taken out over as long a period as you need to so as not to strain cash-flow. If you look at tax deductibility from the day you own to the day you sell there is actually no difference from lease to HP it is all timing. Cyclic sums it up, for every dollar you spend on the bucket of bolts you drive you might get around a third of it back in reduced tax, spending as little as you can on something reliable will leave you with more money in your pocket to spend on what matters, your family! Of course reliable means something that gets you to work everyday so you actually get to earn everyday.  
Remember with lease you always have a residual payment at the end which disguises the fact that what often looks like lower repayments is actually a failure to pay off what is a loan after all. 
Never put it on your mortgage, the loan will remain long after the car is gone, unless you raise your repayments so they are, surprise, surprise, as much as if you had taken out a separate loan anyway. Always compare finance offers, sometimes the dealer can be cheaper than an outside finance company, they all have access to the same rates it just depends on how they load them up. Lastly don't do something just because someone else has or "their accountant said it was best" it isn't one size fits all, we all have prejudices and in the end you simply want repayments you can afford and a car that runs. 
However as I run low K's we tend to buy new and run a vehicle for a number of years, in many ways we would be better off getting something pre-loved and fairly new and letting someone else take the pain of rapid price depreciation on new vehicles which is another way of saying most of us buy with the heart not the head and then busily engage ourselves in finding some convenient BS to justify our impulsive selves.

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## Marc

Interesting how the lines get crossed.
There are a few separate issues in this discussion, all very valid and all approachable in different ways.
Van vs Ute.
New vs old.
Lease vs buy.
Loan vs pay cash
Asset vs liability. 
Van vs Ute. 
Completely personal choice but if you want reasons not to buy a van, think in a crash. I like the idea that I have 1.2m of chassis and a bull bar in front of me instead of o.5 mm of sheet metal and the petrol tank under my bum. Vans are great if you are a locksmith and need a small workshop to work out of the weather and keep everything inside, or a coffee machine mechanic that must carry scores of little spares and machines back and forth. For a carpenter builder? It's just as easy to brake inside a van then it is to open a tool chest on a van.   
Resale value? An ex work van with no seats inside is worth very little in the second hand market.  
New vs old.  
New is better than old. Who can argue with that? The decision is purely financial. Can you afford to lose $10,000 a year depreciation for the first 3 years and $5000 for a few years after that? if you business is solid and you are in the highest marginal tax rate, you may be ok with that and the reliability and prestige associated with a new car will outweigh the high cost. It is after all a tool, and should be treated accordingly.  
Lease vs buy 
Lease is _expensive._ You pay _more_ in order to have a larger bill to present to the taxman. Again it all depends from how much tax you pay. I find it hilarious when people on $50,000 a year buy an investment property negatively geared in order to "reduce their tax bill", no need to repeat the very good explanation by Cyclic above in relation to the trap of tax deductions from a loss. Loss is loss and no one should get intentionally into losing money to pay less tax. What's that say, to cut your nose to spate your face? Something like that.  
Loan vs pay cash. 
Loans are a necessary evil. If you have no money you take a loan. That's it.
But the fact that sometimes they are necessary does not make them less evil.  
There are several costs to a loan, and the interest is not the only one. There are risk associated with loans since no one owns the future, and the consequences of not being able to service a loan can be carried for many years.  Pay cash on the other side has an opportunity cost that, if it is the only money available can e very high. 
Asset vs Liability.
A confusing subject. People say their principal home is an asset. Well it is not, in fact it is a liability and probably the biggest they will ever have. And so is your car, your boat, your holiday house.
So a liability is something that takes money out of your pocket and an asset is the opposite, something that puts money in your pocket.
Is a tool an asset or a liability? Depends. If you are a hobbyist, you entire arsenal of tools is just a big liability. 
If you work with your tools for money, your hammer and everything else including your ute are an asset. And not because you can write off depreciation but mainly because without them you will have no income. 
The cost of keeping your tools sharp and your vehicle on the road is part of the cost of doing business and should be included in your quotes, not only in your tax return.  
So ... if you are 2(X) years old and starting out on your own with no money what would you do?  
Hard to say. 
We are all different and we can only talk about what if ... it is you who needs to make a decision. And remember that accountants are not businessman. They think they are because they hear others talk about business but they are the worst business advisers you can get. They are only good at doing tax returns, and sometimes not even that.

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## Uncle Bob

Pretty good post right there Marc.

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## johnc

I like a person home being a liability in Marc's post, on a lighter note it is probably a money pit to its owners but it is absolutely an asset to the kids when Mum and Dad finally cark it, assuming the nursing home doesn't get it first of course.

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## Marc

You can call it whatever you want, but an inheritance, being free to the kids does not make it an asset to them unless they rent the property. If they live in it... it will be to them just like it was to the parents, a liability that drains money out of them. All the other emotional issues surrounding houses play each their role but do not change what is an asset and what is a liability. 
Like I said, accountant's definition are worth very little in business.
Think about it, say someone gives you a 40' Sea ray with 2x7L  V8 petrol engines in it. How is that an asset unless you sell it and invest the money in shares, properties or you use the boat to take tourist around the harbour? If you keep it and use it for yourself it is a liability all the way

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## chrisp

> I dont really understand leasing so i dont do it. One problem with leasing ive heard is you cant change the car.. Put a new stereo in or racks or tow bar.

  It might depend upon the leasing company. I've been told by a couple of lease companies that any options or accessories need to be part of the original purchase. So, if I want a towbar it had to be fitted before leasing the vehicle. I was under the impression that fitting one later required approval of the lease company (who actually own the vehicle) and that they would most likely decline. I was advised to include all options in the vehicle specification before proceeding with a lease. 
I'm with you about the 'not really understanding leasing'. The last quote I had to lease a car highlighted how much tax I could save each year by leasing instead of buying (and it was a stink load). Gee, the consultants were on the phone every week telling me what a great tax saving it would be and how much cheaper fuel costs would be. I compared leasing to buying using a personal loan and included all the same running costs. The bottom line was much the same - it was only slightly more expensive to buy rather than lease. It seemed to me that most all of the tax savings were going to the lease company. The supposed savings and convenience of leasing didn't justify the lack of flexibility in buying the vehicle in my view. I prefer to pay tax than hand money to a lease company. Anyway, this was an employee 'novated lease' - your mileage may be different under a company structure. 
Oh, and don't buy in to the sales talk of 'the lease company will be able to get a better deal' on the price. They didn't in my case - even after I provided my best offered price and they went back to their 'buying department'.  
Just to reiterate the theme mentioned by many above - Don't worry about the tax savings, worry about your own pocket!

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## pharmaboy2

> You can call it whatever you want, but an inheritance, being free to the kids does not make it an asset to them unless they rent the property. If they live in it... it will be to them just like it was to the parents, a liability that drains money out of them. All the other emotional issues surrounding houses play each their role but do not change what is an asset and what is a liability. 
> Like I said, accountant's definition are worth very little in business.
> Think about it, say someone gives you a 40' Sea ray with 2x7L  V8 petrol engines in it. How is that an asset unless you sell it and invest the money in shares, properties or you use the boat to take tourist around the harbour? If you keep it and use it for yourself it is a liability all the way

  If you don't have a house Marc, where you gonna live, in a box? 
straight out of R Kyosaki that concept of house being a liability, and the man is a fraud.  Asset is a well defined term, and there are different types of assets.  If you want to be more descriptive of what type of asset it is then use other words in front, eg depreciating or appreciating, and income producing or private.   
So a work vehicle is a depreciating income producing asset, a house you live in is an appreciating private asset (strictly, the land could be considered seperate to the building) 
your searay ray is an asset with around a $15k of costs attached to it. 
i get the concept, But changing the meaning of words and conflating income statement terms with balance sheet definitions is incorrect in English as well as accounting

----------


## Marc

Mm ... I feel a lot better now that I know my own home is an asset, so I can sell it and invest in my business ... hang on ... I don't have that option since I can not live in a cardboard box ... so ? 
It's not an asset. 
And since it costs me money it is a liability. 
It is much better to redefine assets and liabilities according to the way they are used. The English language and the business language are two separate things. 
 Very simple concept if you leave the emotions aside. 
Emotions are bad for business. . :2thumbsup:

----------


## Micky013

Pretty sure there is another thread somewhere that's already had the asset, not asset discussion. Really do we need to go through it again?  
=================

----------


## johnc

> Pretty sure there is another thread somewhere that's already had the asset, not asset discussion. Really do we need to go through it again?  
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  We should just start a new thread "Marc knows best!" and let him pontificate to his hearts content. 
There are a pile of iload vans used by the tradies around here and most seem quite happy with them, probably about the same as most seem happy with Hiace. My feeling is that along as it has a complete service history you will not go wrong with either vehicle.

----------


## Micky013

> We should just start a new thread "Marc knows best!" and let him pontificate to his hearts content. 
> There are a pile of iload vans used by the tradies around here and most seem quite happy with them, probably about the same as most seem happy with Hiace. My feeling is that along as it has a complete service history you will not go wrong with either vehicle.

  Thanks mate  
==================

----------


## cyclic

Ok, back to the choice of vehicle.
Having seen what my son and a mate have gone through with turbo diesels, I would not be buying a second hand turbo diesel, in fact not even a new one. 
Son has Nissan Patrol 2003 from new, blew turbo at 170000 k's, requiring engine strip down and new turbo, $11,000.
Burnt 3 pistons at 240,000 k's, so he put a V8  petrol in it, not my choice, but???. 
Mate has Pajero, told by suspension mechanic diesel injector pump leaking, so gets 2 quotes of $6000-$6500 to remove, recondition, replace pump, with the reconditioning being $5500, and is done down Lismore way, when in fact a new pump is $4600. Go figure !
So I put him in touch with a mechanic I use not very often, but who I trust, the end result being $330 to make good the leaks on 2 hoses at the pump, but he could have spent $6000 and would have been none the wiser. 
Both were told by mechanics, if you are going turbo diesel, Toyota is the only way to go.
However, knowing what an awesome car the i30 is, I would probably go iload.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Pretty sure there is another thread somewhere that's already had the asset, not asset discussion. Really do we need to go through it again?

  Apologies. 
think about what you need to carry, but both can carry 1200/2400 I think, and if one has the dual opening doors at the rear, that's heaps more useful than a lift gate. With a ladder on the roof, a lift rear is in constant danger of smashing the rear glass!   :Wink:

----------


## Marc

> Ok, back to the choice of vehicle.
>  Having seen what my son and a mate have gone through with turbo diesels, I would not be buying a second hand turbo diesel, in fact not even a new one. 
> Son has Nissan Patrol 2003 from new, blew turbo at 170000 k's, requiring engine strip down and new turbo, $11,000.
>  Burnt 3 pistons at 240,000 k's, so he put a V8  petrol in it, not my choice, but???. 
>  Mate has Pajero, told by suspension mechanic diesel injector pump leaking, so gets 2 quotes of $6000-$6500 to remove, recondition, replace pump, with the reconditioning being $5500, and is done down Lismore way, when in fact a new pump is $4600. Go figure !
> So I put him in touch with a mechanic I use not very often, but who I trust, the end result being $330 to make good the leaks on 2 hoses at the pump, but he could have spent $6000 and would have been none the wiser. 
>  Both were told by mechanics, if you are going turbo diesel, Toyota is the only way to go.
> However, knowing what an awesome car the i30 is, I would probably go iload.

  I drive a Toyota turbo diesel. Had it from 30,000k done 270,000 and counting. However ... I wouldn't chose another diesel turbo or no turbo. Rather go Petrol and put it on LPG. A Landcruiser V8 on lpg would be very tempting. 
Hard to recommend a car to someone, you can only go from your experience. I once sold a Bobcat 185 with 600 hours on it. Fitted front door and aircon to it, it was a gem. The guy called me back a week later saying my bobcat had sh### itself and that it was a piece of excrement. It turned out he burned an electronic component worth $150 that blows up every 1000 hours or so.  
I say go with what most people use, and for tradies, it is Toyota hands down. Lately Ford has done a comeback but a bit pricey. if it was me in your shoes, I'll buy a decent second hand Toyota Hilux petrol on LPG and pay cash. After all you don't need to buy the ultimate vehicle the first time. 
Once you business grows and you have steady cash flow, you can go bigger and better and even lease if you so want and grow your asset base ... (not liability, no good, pfui  :Smilie:  )

----------


## Micky013

> Apologies. 
> think about what you need to carry, but both can carry 1200/2400 I think, and if one has the dual opening doors at the rear, that's heaps more useful than a lift gate. With a ladder on the roof, a lift rear is in constant danger of smashing the rear glass!

  Thanks!  
===============================

----------


## ringtail

> Ok, back to the choice of vehicle.
> Having seen what my son and a mate have gone through with turbo diesels, I would not be buying a second hand turbo diesel, in fact not even a new one. 
> Son has Nissan Patrol 2003 from new, blew turbo at 170000 k's, requiring engine strip down and new turbo, $11,000.
> Burnt 3 pistons at 240,000 k's,  
> Both were told by mechanics, if you are going turbo diesel, Toyota is the only way to go.
> .

  Toyota, pfffft. The new is in no way the same as the old. Have a google. Maybe the new hilux might have a better run than the absolute dog it replaces. Your mates nissan is par for the course. The 3.0lt's are well known for everything you have said. But I do agree, the CRD's of today are indeed a scary bit of kit. Without a shadow of a doubt Isuzu make the best engine. Not the most powerful but miles ahead of the rest for reliability. Diesel 4x4's are not what they used to be all thanks to rubbishy emission rubbish. They make great power and have great economy but spew a much more toxic brew in to the atmosphere than the old clunkers ever used to. Great leap forward. Unfortunately petrol/lpg is a lemon and not feasible. For touring, lpg is just not available and one uses at least 1/3rd more lpg for a given distance than petrol. High efficiency turbo petrols are the future and some like Mercedes are already there. Such is the issue with modern diesels that some dealers strongly advise not buying one in a passenger car. The black death. Ye be warned. However, after agonising over buying a CRD to replace my old V6 Pajero I'm glad I did. I do big miles and I'm saving $1000 in fuel costs for every 10 000km I travel. It doesn't take long to save enough money to buy the big ticket items in the injection system.

----------


## ringtail

> Mm ... I feel a lot better now that I know my own home is an asset, so I can sell it and invest in my business ... hang on ... I don't have that option since I can not live in a cardboard box ... so ? 
> It's not an asset. 
> And since it costs me money it is a liability. 
> It is much better to redefine assets and liabilities according to the way they are used. The English language and the business language are two separate things. 
>  Very simple concept if you leave the emotions aside. 
> Emotions are bad for business. .

  so does your house cost you more per year than it appreciates each year ? Maybe you should move to better area  :Biggrin:  . My house has appreciated in value so much that I could spend 50 k on it every year for the next 10 years and still be under today's land value. And that's not taking in to account the amount it continues to appreciate every year.

----------


## toooldforthis

fwiw I'm happy with my 4wd Mitsubishi Delica Turbo Diesel
1994.

----------


## METRIX

> High efficiency turbo petrols are the future and some like Mercedes are already there..

  Glad you think so, I'm starting to save my pennies for one of these, or these, or these, or perhaps a different one for each day of the week.
Maybe I will wait for a full electric ute like the Tesla, I know you can't wait for them RT  :Smilie:  
I would love a F150 Raptor ecoboost unfortunately FORD have said no to a Right Hand driver version.

----------


## toooldforthis

spoke to my neighbour who has the Hyundai
he likes em
had it since 2013
diesel
no issues
likes the barn doors.
he had a welding equipment supply & service business. 
said the Hi Ace was a lot more expensive?

----------


## cyclic

> so does your house cost you more per year than it appreciates each year ? Maybe you should move to better area  . My house has appreciated in value so much that I could spend 50 k on it every year for the next 10 years and still be under today's land value. And that's not taking in to account the amount it continues to appreciate every year.

  It's worth nothing
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.until you sell it.

----------


## Micky013

> spoke to my neighbour who has the Hyundai
> he likes em
> had it since 2013
> diesel
> no issues
> likes the barn doors.
> he had a welding equipment supply & service business. 
> said the Hi Ace was a lot more expensive?

  Thanks. Can get both for $40k drive away.  
Also just discovered the Hilux work mate 4x4. Probably the only dual cab I'd consider at the moment (based on price) but means I have to buy and lug around a trailer. Similar price at just a touch over $40k  
============================

----------


## METRIX

> Thanks. Can get both for $40k drive away.  
> Also just discovered the Hilux work mate 4x4. Probably the only dual cab I'd consider at the moment (based on price) but means I have to buy and lug around a trailer. Similar price at just a touch over $40k  
> ============================

  If your looking at Ute's look at the new Triton, they are heaps cheaper than the Hilux, my mate just traded his older one in for a new one and loves it.
They have always been behind in the technology / interior styling compared to other utes, but do come with the best warranty 5 years, if your looking at holding it for a while the extra warranty is good. 
The new Hilux is too small inside, I think my older ones had more room than the new one. 
Do you need dual cab ? if not I always go for extra cabs, because you can carry 4 legally if required and get a decent tray, plus have somewhere to store stuff inside the car, dual cabs are a waste of carry space unless you need it for family as well. 
Take a look at the Ranger xl

----------


## Micky013

> If your looking at Ute's look at the new Triton, they are heaps cheaper than the Hilux, my mate just traded his older one in for a new one and loves it.
> They have always been behind in the technology / interior styling compared to other utes, but do come with the best warranty 5 years, if your looking at holding it for a while the extra warranty is good. 
> The new Hilux is too small inside, I think my older ones had more room than the new one.

  Thanks, will have a look!  
=========================

----------


## METRIX

> Thanks, will have a look!  
> =========================

  Do you need 4WD ? if not your paying for that option, there are specials going on now for tax time.
Take a look at the High rider XL cab chaz rangers, take them for a drive, compare them to the other utes out there and you will see how much nicer they drive. 
The Hilux Workmate drives like a bucking bull unless you keep 300Kg in the back all the time this has been well documented by all the testers, I have been in them with no weight and they are terrible, take one for a test drive and you will see what I mean, don't have a big breakfast or you may bring it up  :Smilie:  
The Hi RIder Rangers are good because you get the 4WD ground clearance, plus a locking diff on the rear even though it's only a 2WD, the 2.2 Diesel has enough power but good torque, not very thirsty either, they say 6.8 - 7.8 per 100, I have the 3.2L they quote 8.3 - 8.7 / 100, I am getting just on 9 with all the crap in the back, get over 800ks per tank city driving, so im happy  2017 Ford Ranger XL Hi-Rider PX MkII Manual 4x2 Cars For Sale in NSW - CarPoint Australia

----------


## Micky013

> Do you need 4WD ? if not your paying for that option, there are specials going on now for tax time.
> Take a look at the High rider XL cab chaz rangers, take them for a drive, cpmpare them to the other utes out there and you will see how much nicer they drive. 
> The Workmate drives like a bucking bull unless you keep 300Kg this has been weel documented by att the testers, I have been in them with no weight and they are terrible   2017 Ford Ranger XL Hi-Rider PX MkII Manual 4x2 Cars For Sale in NSW - CarPoint Australia

  Thanks. I'll have a look. I don't really need 4x4 - I've made do with RWD up to now so don't see that I'll be lacking without it.  
========================

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## METRIX

> Thanks. I'll have a look. I don't really need 4x4 - I've made do with RWD up to now so don't see that I'll be lacking without it.  
> ========================

  Nah don;t really need it and you will pay a few thousand $$ for it, ground clearance is more important so you can jump over gutters without damaging something when stuck in traffic, trust me some of the gutters in Sydney have been made rather high to stop people doing it, haven't found one I cant get over yet  :Smilie:  
Although a guy I used to work for had a 2wd Hilux, he reversed it out the back of the site to drop off some timber, it was only slightly muddy and he got bogged.
I had to drag him out was killing myself laughing at him, he was a real ass, I should have left him there  :Smilie:  
Also had a mate who had a BMF van the ones you can easily stand up in, he drove it onto his front lawn, it rained all weekend, went to get it off and bang bogged, I turned up he had torn all the grass apart, said I would drag him off, he said no way this thing weighs many ton's, hooked him up and had him on the tar in a about 10 seconds

----------


## ringtail

> It's worth nothing
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> ...

  Well, sort of yes, sort of no. If you can leverage off it then it's worth what the bank says it's worth. But yes, you can't pay your electricity bill with a floorboard

----------


## ringtail

> Glad you think so, I'm starting to save my pennies for one of these, or these, or these, or perhaps a different one for each day of the week.
> Maybe I will wait for a full electric ute like the Tesla, I know you can't wait for them RT  
> I would love a F150 Raptor ecoboost unfortunately FORD have said no to a Right Hand driver version.

  the benz ute is coming. Rrp around 120k so I've heard.

----------


## METRIX

> the benz ute is coming. Rrp around 120k so I've heard.

  This is also here, some guy in Sydney bought the first one, converted to RHD by Harrison, 5 L coyote V8, would go like a rocket.
I believe they are going to bring the Tonka in as well.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Local Isuzu or maybe Hino truck outlet has their smallest cab over truck with the trade pack included (alloy tray and ladder racks) for $52k drive away. 3 litre turbo diesel, auto box and all the usual kit on a car license. There was a version with the service body for only a couple of grand more... 
I'd get one of these over a fancy pants dual cab any day. Although I don't live and work in a suburban slum so I probably have room to move it and park it. 
Hiace will last (my old man drove one for twenty something years) but will kill you with woeful ergonomics. The Hyundai is powerful & priced ok but  disposable and still not a nice drive. The Euro's are expensive but comfortable and well featured - targeted more at the renters (leasers) as a result. Next size up is good value - Sprinter, Transit, Crafter but again more for the pretenders than the owner operators due to the coin involved. Then there's that size problem negotiating the modern Australian slums... 
I'm biased. Ive run a VW Transporter dual cab chassis for a decade and a half since new. Mostly pleasurable, occasionally frustrating but I would never be without it. Which is why I've still got it. I love it but I would never recommend it to others. A new one is poisonous​ expensive and still a VW and the local dealer is a nonce. And yet the idea and the execution of the things are epically practical...and there is still no other alternative to the VW Transporter dual cab. Damnit.

----------


## toooldforthis

still like my Delica
just sayin'  https://www.facebook.com/4WD4X4AUSTR...5401022619726/  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0PoYqdtrbs  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0wiP161Q0E  
sry

----------


## sol381

> Glad you think so, I'm starting to save my pennies for one of these, or these, or these, or perhaps a different one for each day of the week.
> Maybe I will wait for a full electric ute like the Tesla, I know you can't wait for them RT  
> I would love a F150 Raptor ecoboost unfortunately FORD have said no to a Right Hand driver version.

  The merc looks ok but what is that under it.. A gmc? good lord.

----------


## Micky013

> Local Isuzu or maybe Hino truck outlet has their smallest cab over truck with the trade pack included (alloy tray and ladder racks) for $52k drive away. 3 litre turbo diesel, auto box and all the usual kit on a car license. There was a version with the service body for only a couple of grand more... 
> I'd get one of these over a fancy pants dual cab any day. Although I don't live and work in a suburban slum so I probably have room to move it and park it. 
> Hiace will last (my old man drove one for twenty something years) but will kill you with woeful ergonomics. The Hyundai is powerful & priced ok but  disposable and still not a nice drive. The Euro's are expensive but comfortable and well featured - targeted more at the renters (leasers) as a result. Next size up is good value - Sprinter, Transit, Crafter but again more for the pretenders than the owner operators due to the coin involved. Then there's that size problem negotiating the modern Australian slums... 
> I'm biased. Ive run a VW Transporter dual cab chassis for a decade and a half since new. Mostly pleasurable, occasionally frustrating but I would never be without it. Which is why I've still got it. I love it but I would never recommend it to others. A new one is poisonous​ expensive and still a VW and the local dealer is a nonce. And yet the idea and the execution of the things are epically practical...and there is still no other alternative to the VW Transporter dual cab. Damnit.

  Cheers. My father in law has a transporter and every time he's had a problem it's cost a fortune to fix. If that's a VW thing I'm not sure but it's a bit off putting.   
======================

----------


## ringtail

Yep. A ladies car  :Biggrin:

----------


## sol381

indeed.. couldn`t fit 2 bags of cement in the back. . Merc is $120,000 eh.. Ill get 2 , you can fix me up later for yours.

----------


## ringtail

> This is also here, some guy in Sydney bought the first one, converted to RHD by Harrison, 5 L coyote V8, would go like a rocket.
> I believe they are going to bring the Tonka in as well.

  As long as they bring their cheap fuel with them. The streets will all have to be widened too

----------


## ringtail

> indeed.. couldn`t fit 2 bags of cement in the back. . Merc is $120,000 eh.. Ill get 2 , you can fix me up later for yours.

  Yeah, nah. I'd rather have a Iveco 4x4 dual cab ute. Shudder.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Cheers. My father in law has a transporter and every time he's had a problem it's cost a fortune to fix. If that's a VW thing I'm not sure but it's a bit off putting.

  Yeah parts are expensive from the dealer. Fortunately, there's a couple of specialist importers plus there's a tonne of direct sales options on the internet so it's not too bad. 
Our plan is to throw another $20k at the thing in the next couple of years getting it back to new(ish) condition rather than spending $50k on a new one and still loosing $20k in perceived value in the first two years of ownership.

----------


## sol381

ive never seen one of those ivecos before.. Not sure what to think.

----------


## Marc

Love the Tonka, but yellow does not suit me.

----------


## METRIX

> The merc looks ok but what is that under it.. A gmc? good lord.

  The merc looks like a ladies ute 
the GMC looks like a gangster ute
the tesla looks like a rocket
the F150 looks like a mans ute :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

Yep ... the Tonka in Camo for me  :Smilie:

----------


## sol381

> The merc looks like a ladies ute 
> the GMC looks like a gangster ute
> the tesla looks like a rocket
> the F150 looks like a mans ute

  Yeah i think the ford is the only one a decent tradie would drive.

----------


## ringtail

I'd have a raptor if it wasn't a Ford and /or Yankee

----------


## sol381

Great wall motors have a raptor i think. :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

Yankee? Oh my :Eek:

----------


## ringtail

> Yankee? Oh my

  ?

----------


## Marc

To equate Yankee to American is so passe

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Especially since the F150 Raptor is made in Canada...

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Great wall motors have a raptor i think.

  Hmmm...more battery hen than raptor. 
Actually speaking of China, OP could do a lot worse than look at the LDV G10 vans. Less than 30 grand for the diesel, petrol version cheaper but also asthmatic. Drop a decent professional van driver's seat in it from KAB and Rob's your father's brother. Safety wise it probably won't be five star (three?) but most vans aren't anyway unless there's serious coin involved

----------


## METRIX

> Yep ... the Tonka in Camo for me

  Or this

----------


## pharmaboy2

> To equate Yankee to American is so passe

  ?  What, they are all seppos now? 
yank outside the US still refers to the whole lot, excluding Canada of course - how do you piss a Canadian off......

----------


## Marc

> Or this

  Even better !

----------


## Marc

"Yank hate" is such a futile exercise, particularly for Australia. Let's leave it for Argentina or Venezuela.

----------


## sol381

Ii dont think anyone here hates americans its just what we call them. everyone i know calls them yanks.. Its not a derogatory remark marc.

----------


## ringtail

Hmmm, is Marc married to an American by chance ?  :Biggrin:  Who said anything about hating Americans ? There is plenty to dislike but hate is a strong word. They make rubbish cars is all I'm sayin'.

----------


## cyclic

> Hmmm, is Marc married to an American by chance ?  Who said anything about hating Americans ? There is plenty to dislike but hate is a strong word. They make rubbish cars is all I'm sayin'.

  Aw go on, just cause they send the latest Mustang here with the hand brake and bonnet catch still on their drivers (left) side, which of course is our passenger side.

----------


## Marc

> Hmmm, is Marc married to an American by chance ?  Who said anything about hating Americans ? There is plenty to dislike but hate is a strong word. They make rubbish cars is all I'm sayin'.

  Mm ok, dislike ha ha.
Actually Yankee is derogatory most of the time outside of the US. 
But I like their cars, they are just the right size. Not yellow though.  
And I like Detroit diesel in a Bombardier truck or a boat ... mmmmmmmmmmm love it!

----------


## UseByDate

> Ii dont think anyone here hates americans its just what we call them. everyone i know calls them yanks.. Its not a derogatory remark marc.

  American > septic
 Anti-american > antiseptic  Antiseptic is Cockney Rhyming Slang for Anti-american (from Septic Tank = Yank)!

----------


## UseByDate

> Glad you think so, I'm starting to save my pennies for one of these, or these, or these, or perhaps a different one for each day of the week.
> Maybe I will wait for a full electric ute like the Tesla, I know you can't wait for them RT  
> I would love a F150 Raptor ecoboost unfortunately FORD have said no to a Right Hand driver version.

  DIY? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upCUWYDVmFY

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> DIY? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upCUWYDVmFY

  For something completely stupid and/or brilliant, Google 'V8 Holden Colorado'. 
By way of a counterpoint, I'm rather attracted to a 2017 Mahindra Genio dual cab 4x4.

----------


## sol381

> American > septic
>  Anti-american > antiseptic  Antiseptic is Cockney Rhyming Slang for Anti-american (from Septic Tank = Yank)!

  I always thought they were called septic because they were full of s#@t.. didnt realise it was rhyming slang until a few years ago..

----------


## METRIX

> By way of a counterpoint, I'm rather attracted to a 2017 Mahindra Genio dual cab 4x4.

  Really, that's not the most prettiest car I have seen, and I wouldn't like to be in an accident in that one, they only come with 2 airbag and ABS, not much protecting you from side impact which is the weakest part. 
No ANCAP ratings for it, comparison sites give it a 1.5 out of 6 for safety features which equals basic. 
On the plus side, you do get 2 speed Aircon, like the old cars gearbox, high and low.

----------


## ringtail

Safety, pfffft.  :Biggrin:  . Anyone who's anyone grew up driving cars with drum brakes, suspension that was barely suspension, awful steering, woeful tyres and no seatbelts.  We all survived just fine. Safety keeps idiots alive and drives insurance premiums through the roof.  :Tongue:

----------


## METRIX

Yes, I too had cars with No ABS, Drum brakes, no Power Steer, suspension made from wood, mechanical windows, and I do appreciate having the safety features on the cars nowadays, because it's not my driving ability I'm concerned about, it all the other bloody idiot drivers out there. 
I don't agree its the safety that's pushing insurance premiums up, it's greed from the insurance companies. 
Think about it, in the older days when someone was in a serious accident it usually ended up in either fatality, or serious non repairable injury, which would have cost a fortune in compensation and on going therapy, sometimes for many many years. 
Nowadays, the cars are designed to explode to protect the person inside, so the payout is just a new car, and a little physio etc which may total 30K, even 100K, that's still a lot cheaper than someones life or serious life long injury requiring ongoing treatments forever. 
I have had the unfortunate experience of seeing two fatalities in accidents that I stopped to help out, one was from nearly 15 years ago, I can still see that young guy in the van to this day, not something you want to remember, safety in cars is paramount, with so many more stupid drivers out there it's only lucky technology has stepped in to make the cars die rather than the person.

----------


## PhilT2

> We all survived just fine.

  No we didn't. The Qld road toll used to be about 600/yr. Now with twice as many cars it's around 300.

----------


## METRIX

> No we didn't. The Qld road toll used to be about 600/yr. Now with twice as many cars it's around 300.

  With nearly 5.2 million cars on NSW roads, it amazing the road toll is so low.

----------


## Marc

Yep, it's not speed, it's driver attitude that kills. It's the guy that tailgates you to force you to go faster when you are doing the limit on one line road. The one that overtakes and cuts in one meter from your bumper, the one that drive in a pack bumper to bumper doing 110, the one that does the little chicane left before turning right and so many more poor habits that provoke a catastrophe.
It's better cars that protect drivers, certainly not drivers getting better.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Really, that's not the most prettiest car I have seen, and I wouldn't like to be in an accident in that one, they only come with 2 airbag and ABS, not much protecting you from side impact which is the weakest part. 
> No ANCAP ratings for it, comparison sites give it a 1.5 out of 6 for safety features which equals basic. 
> On the plus side, you do get 2 speed Aircon, like the old cars gearbox, high and low.

  You forgot the price tag: $27,500 drive away for the 4x4 version.  
As for safety, it has one more airbag than my 15+ year old VW Transporter...which also doesn't have stability control or abs. Safety is a relative concept. As you say only ancap can say for sure about structural safety but if it gets more than 3 stars then it's 'probably safer' than what I'm driving now! 
The Mahindra engine whilst comparatively modest in modern standards also has higher outputs than my VW and is pushing a lighter vehicle. 
Granted it's not the sharpest tool available or the prettiest but it's $16,000 cheaper than a base model isuzu 4x4 dual cab is when the Isuzu is on runout... that's a lot of coin to not have to pay back to a bank or finance company. And the depreciation cost  over five years is probably going to be about the same too. 
There's an argument there for me to consider a test drive. Already driven Great Wall...a big nope there.

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## Marc

I like this little beast even better. Not a 8v-71 detroit engine but good enough  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> No we didn't. The Qld road toll used to be about 600/yr. Now with twice as many cars it's around 300.

  Well exactly. Safety keeps idiots alive

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## ringtail

> I don't agree its the safety that's pushing insurance premiums up, it's greed from the insurance companies.

  they write a car off now for so little reason in aint funny. Air bags deployed ( = seat belt tensioners too) and the car is a write off regardless of damage.

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## ringtail

Foton Tunland v Mahindra Genio v Tata Xenon 2015 Comparison - motoring.com.au

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## sol381

BMW is getting in the act now.. Maybe they shouldn`t me thinks.

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## ringtail

That's so wrong

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## METRIX

> Well exactly. Safety keeps idiots alive

  True, but what about the innocent people who bore the brunt of the idiots, all too often you would see on the news the idiot usually survived the innocent one was usually killed.

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## METRIX

> That's so wrong

  It's just the colour, if it was in Black I bet it would look awesome, there you go it looks so much better n black  :Smilie:

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## johnc

> Safety, pfffft.  . Anyone who's anyone grew up driving cars with drum brakes, suspension that was barely suspension, awful steering, woeful tyres and no seatbelts.  We all survived just fine. Safety keeps idiots alive and drives insurance premiums through the roof.

  Ah yes, I learned to drive in those cars, plus owned a few, have no wish to go back to them either. Actually I don't think we did survive just fine, death rate is much lower now and having a car that will stop in a straight line every time you brake, no massive under or over steer, a back end that doesn't want to overtake the front if you hit a bit of gravel when cornering are all fine by me. Safety does keep idiots alive but I'm not sure about the insurance premium side mine are pretty much unchanged over the last decade or so.

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