# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Waterproofing and Tile Glue

## Animalector

So, with work slowly progressing, 1 hour here and there, I'm almost ready for the waterproofing. I have been calling around and doing some reading, talking to people, and I have narrowed it down to two options: 
1: Dunlop Waterproofing Membrane, Dunlop Primer, Dunlop Glues from bunnings 
2: Ardex WPM001 Suplerflex, Ardex Multiprime, Abaflex (floors) and MPP (walls) from Beaumont Tiles 
ok I was reading the back of the dunlop packages in bunnings and it occurred to me that the dunlop products are ardex / ABA related, and the waterproofing membrane is "superflex formula" Which makes me wonder if it's all the same stuff. First question... is it in fact all the same stuff? 
Next question, Of the dunlop products that mention safe coverage of undertile waterproofing, there are ABAflex (surprise), MPP (surprise again) and Dunlop Supertileset, the supertileset is a cement based glue recommended for both floors and tiles, and is pretty much 2/3 the price of the ABAflex and the MPP.. So, the question would be.. what is the advantage of using ABAflex on the floors, and MPP on the walls as apposed to supertileset for all of it??? 
Total price for membrane and glues for Dunlop & supertileset: ~$355
Total price for WPM001 Superflex, ABAflex, MPP: ~$420 
Thanks a bunch 
Andy

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## Animalector

> First question... is it in fact all the same stuff?

  YES!!  was reading datasheets on the Ardex australia website, and all the names and specs are there, plus the help line is an ardex helpline and email link. 
Next, for the floors I think Abaflex is for early age screeds / high movement (up to 0.9mm) whereas supertileset doesn't appear to be particularly flexible, both need to go down quite heavy (3 - 4kg / sqm) so not as suitable for walls as the MPP (1.6kg / sqm) 
In my case, I will be going down over a Lanko 136 rapid patching mortar which has been left to cure for more than 7 days so shrinkage will be minimal therefore I think for the floors I will use the Supertileset, and for the Walls perhaps the MPP. 
will update with more details when I get feedback from technical people. 
Andy

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## Gooner

It does in fact seem that the Ardex WPM001 water proofing membrane is the same stuff as the Dunlop "DIY" brand. As already mentioned, the data sheets are virtually the same in content and published only one working day apart. I spoke with Ardex technical support and they tell me that either product can be used "interchangeably". Aparently they are not allowed to tell me explicitly that they are in fact the exact same product, but they made it clear that it was. 
They also told me to mainly look at price if choosing between the two as usually you pay a premium for the DIY labelled products. But it turns out that the 15kg Dunlop labelled product is $185 at Bunnies and the Ardex labelled WPM001 is $220 for 15kg at my local tile shop.

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## Animalector

yeah I got the same impression, on a side note, the glues, abaflex, MPP, supertileset and the primers are compatible as well..   so you can use Dunlop Primer / additive with the WPM001 etc..  I was quoted  $189 for a 20kg WPM001, however I think it may in fact be 15 and they just made a mistake..  but basically same price as Bunnies... 
little bit held up at the moment with how to finish the drain for the stainless drain grate (regarding how high to set the cement around the drain, puddle flanges,  etc etc..) but will be waterproofing when we get back from holidays without a doubt. 
Later
Andy

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## Gooner

Andy, 
What did you end up going with? 
I am now waterproofing my ensuite and in the process of buying tiles and adhesive. 
Abaflex for floors and MPP for walls seems to be the choice. Also looked at Isoflex, but this may not be suitable. Not sure.  
My floor tiles are going down over 6mm tile underlay placed over 19mm thick hardwood floorboards. Wall tiling over villaboard. 
I assume I need something a little flexible on the floors seeing as I am on stumps. Abaflex and Isoflex are the ones that seem to suit the purpose so far. 
So many tile adhesives to choose from....

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## Animalector

I still haven't decided ( I am on holidays at the moment) But I will go with MPP for the walls for sure (it goes down thinner and is white) and either supertileset or abaflex for the floors..  since my ensuite is large enough for two to three bags I might do abaflex in the shower area over the waterproofing and supertileset everywhere else.  (getting the WPM001 superflex for the membrane) 
Thanks
Andy

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## Animalector

Quick summary and question.  First i decided to go WPM001 Superflex for the membrane, Abaflex for the floor of the shower, MPP for the walls, and if I need to , supertileset for anything left over (non wet end of the ensuite) 
Right so, going to waterproof on the weekend and in the installation guide it says to prime, then apply silicone to wall floor junctions, then apply waterproofing membrane.. 
1. Do I have to wait for the silicone to dry, ie to the siliconing 24 hours (I would have thought so...) 
Next, when applying the matting, it says to apply membrane, then apply matting, then ensure it is fully wet, with air bubbles removed, then apply top coat of membrane.. 
2. Does this mean wet the matting with water or wet the matting with membrane, remove bubbles and then apply final coat of membrane 
Any other tips and tricks people want to suggest, 
Cheers
Andy

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## Animalector

thought as much..  but good to get a second opinion, Cheers. 
My wife has me on a deadline..  Finish ensuite by Christmas (or else!!!)..  I think it's achievable.. Water proofing this weekend, Tiling next weekend, Cabinet and glass installtion the weekend after. One weekend free for randomness.. 
Wish me luck  :brava:  
Andy

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## Vernonv

Sorry Andy,
I think I deleted my original post ... so here is the jist of it again ... 
1. Yep, wait till it cures. 
2. Wet out the poly cloth with the membrane and not water. The membrane must fully "infuse" with the polycloth.

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## Animalector

Yeah I thought it was strange that I had written a reply to a non-existant post.. 
Thanks again, 
Andy

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## autogenous

_I think it's achievable.. Water proofing this weekend, Tiling next weekend, Cabinet and glass installtion the weekend after. One weekend free for randomness.._ 
Make that 2 weekends for tiling_ _

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## Gooner

> Make that 2 weekends for tiling__

  Yeah... I started tiling last weekend. I was ambitious enough to think I could maybe finish the walls and floors. It quickly occured to me that I would be doing well to finsh the walls. Come the end of the weekend I managed to complete almost 2 walls out of the 4. 
In my case I hired a tile cutter that endup being too small and not suited to cut my thick tiles. That slowed things down substantially. I also have a few niches in the wall that are tricky to tile.

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## Animalector

ok ok ok, so it might be a weekend plus some late-ish evenings..  but as I said I am on a deadline.. so..  as it stands.. one weekend for w-proof, one huhhemm...maybe weekend for tiling... 
It's all good.  We will se how we go this weekend first. one step at a time. 
Oh ona  related issue. anyone know where to locally buy (brisbane) the waterproofing flanges to go around the shower head pipe and flick mixer body? or should I just pack around it from behind and then silicone? 
Andy

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## Gooner

> or should I just pack around it from behind and then silicone?

  Thats the way I went. No reason for the flanges methinks.

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## Animalector

Well all on track so far... Slight Hiccup, we went to buy tiles yesterday adn three tile places had all sold out of the ones we wanted in the end we paid a bit extra and bought some more stylish tiles instead (not alot of floor space so it wasn't really that much extra) 
I gotta say.. we were trying to lay it on very thick (well in my opinion very thick) and there seems to be about 1/4 of the tub left.  this is not absurd since it is supposed to do approx 15sq m and most of mine is wall not floor and only about 13sq m so??? going to let it cure for 3 days.  Worth doing a third coat?? just because we can?  no reason not to I guess 
Here's some Pics    
Cheers
Andy

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## Gooner

> I gotta say.. we were trying to lay it on very thick (well in my opinion very thick) and there seems to be about 1/4 of the tub left. this is not absurd since it is supposed to do approx 15sq m and most of mine is wall not floor and only about 13sq m so??? going to let it cure for 3 days. Worth doing a third coat?? just because we can? no reason not to I guess

  I used the same stuff, have about the same amount of wall/floor area, and had the same thing happen. I.e. more left than what I thought. I went the third coat, and still have some left. The guy at the tiling shop said it does tend to cover more than what they say. 
Did you go roller or brush? If roller, what nap thickness?

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## Animalector

We started out with the roller 13mm nap but it didn't roll very well, and the finish was "peaky" so we went the brushes which looked like a more consistant finish.. we are going to do the third coat tonight..  i don't think there isa an issue with leaving a day between coats... has yours dried yet is it still sticky? did you have a problem tiling (tearing when you stand on it etc)or will it harden up a bit? 
Andy

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## Gooner

> We started out with the roller 13mm nap but it didn't roll very well, and the finish was "peaky" so we went the brushes which looked like a more consistant finish.. we are going to do the third coat tonight.. i don't think there isa an issue with leaving a day between coats... has yours dried yet is it still sticky? did you have a problem tiling (tearing when you stand on it etc)or will it harden up a bit? 
> Andy

  I started walking on the second coat after 1-2 days. It was still very "sticky", so much so that I thought my work boots would start lifing the membrane as I walked around, particularly when standing in the same spot for a while. Therefore I started walking around in socks.. but then left fluff everywhere! I cleaned all this up and applied a third coat about 3-4 days later. Adhered very well. Has not lifted in any areas.  
This was about 2 weeks ago. The floor is not tiled yet and has lost its tackiness. I assume the dust generated over the past 2 weeks as well as the general mess from tiling the walls has formed a thin layer on the floor. Kinda glad as I was worried about heavy objects (like me) sticking to the membrane and lifting it. Haven't had any problems yet. 
In fact, only this morning I lifted some heavy duty tape from a wall that I was using to temporary fit some tiles into place so I could measure a niche in the wall I have to tile. When I removed the tape, it ripped up the paint around the bounday of the waterproofing but did not lift the membrane. This suggests to me it has adhered well enough. (Not sure about the paint now!)

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## Animalector

Well, Waterproofing has been curing since Tuesday night, still a little tacky, but I can walk on it without fear of lifting I think.  Tiling will commence Tomorrow, I have a question regarding the strip of wood I will be attaching to the wall to align my bottom row of tiles...  
I don't want to screw through my newly prepared fully sealed wondercolour membrane.. so how do I set the level in the wet area? 
I was going to make up a strip with legs, that will just stand up by itself  something like this:  
THanks 
Andy

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## Gooner

> I have a question regarding the strip of wood I will be attaching to the wall to align my bottom row of tiles...  
> I don't want to screw through my newly prepared fully sealed wondercolour membrane.. so how do I set the level in the wet area? 
> I was going to make up a strip with legs, that will just stand up by itself something like this:

  Ha! I sat there and scratched my head over this one for about 2 hours because I too did not want to screw the batten through the newly waterproofed wall. I was thinking of making some kind of support, just as you are contemplating.  
My conclusion was that it would be difficult to make any support that would hold the batten in place, be easy to level, and hold up the tiles. Therefore, I ended up screwing the batten into place with small thin screws. Later I will remove, silicone, and put another waterproof coat on these screw holes using some leftover bits of the polyester waterproofing mats. 
I think this is the best way to go as it holds the battens in place nicely and easy to level. 
If you go for an alternative method, I would be interested to see it and know how it goes.

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## juan

I was not so fussy and drilled through the membrane (but not in the shower area) I fixed a full length batten with 4 screws. I slotted the batten holes to allow easy adjustment of 5mm or so either way. At the shower end i just supported it with a prop because it was fairly secure anyway with the screws along the length. When I removed it after tiling I just slapped some more waterproofing over the holes.  I figured the holes were 250mm up a wall and not in the shower area so the waterproofing was a bit of overkill anyway in that area. 
Cheers

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## Animalector

yep..  screw through and re-waterproof the hole. gonna have to be the way I see no other easy method I can do all tiles but the 7 or 8 that have the holes under them which I can do midweek this won't affect my timeline at all  :Biggrin:  
Thanks
Andy

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## Animalector

bit of an update, so far progessing well, only problem was the feature tiles were very close but not exactly 1/2 the height of the normal tiles so the grout lines will not be continuous through the feature.. this is no real problem..it is a feature afterall  :2thumbsup:          
Rest of the wall (minus the bottom row) and floor tomorrow) 
Andy

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## Gooner

Very nice. Got a question. I notice you have not tiled the area where the vanity is being installed. Why? You would assume the tiles weill out-last the vanity, so what happens whens if you have to replace the vainity down the track? You will have to find one that fits the hole.

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## Animalector

Ha.. well actually we were going to tile under the vanity, but decided to start with full tiles, I'll come back later and do the halves and ones with holes. 
I am still tossing up whether to do it or not since the vanity (now and in the future) will need to be custom made to fit the corner, because all the drainage plumbing has to go to the original drain floor locations.  I'll probably do it anyway because we will have more than enough tiles  :Biggrin:  
you'll have to do an update of how yours is progressing Gooner... 
Bye for now, (update tonight with all major wall and floor tiles complete "hopefully") 
Andy

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## Gooner

Andy, 
Well it looks like you're making better progress than me. My weekends tend to be littered with little commitments that means I work on the ensuite here and there. 
My other problem is that every second tile has to be cut. I also have 3 niches I built into the wall. These have turned out a little tricky. I decided not to use tile trim so I am mitering the edes of the tiles and will finish with grout. (Apparently this is called a birds mouth joint.) I have attached images. 
I assume I have about 2 days worth of wall tiling to go. Then the floors. 
Can't wait until it's finished.

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## Animalector

Well, Not quite done but after finishing the last batch of Abaflex last night at 11:15, I think I will come back to it this afternoon. 
To Do: 
remove wood and reapply waterproofing
Cut holes and apply wall tiles under the vanity
Cut tiles for around toilet
Cut wall tiles for wall / floor junction 
Maybe not all this afternoon, but I will make a dent in the cutting at least. 
Andy

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## Animalector

ok so..  tiles are finished, grouting to go tomorrow, glass is being delivered on monday, and the vanity benchtop should be back Monday as well, all comming together, glad I had that spare weekend up my sleeve :Blush7:  Vanity and glass next weekend along with Cornice and drain piping (ubends etc.) 
last pic in this section... might do a complete buildup in the go-to-whoa section
I did end up tiling under the vanity it does look better and is futureproof.  HOWEVER...    
Please ignore the two small strips at the back of the room that have stripes running in the wrong direction..   it was 11:30pm we'd had a couple of "work-in-progress" drinks and didn't realise until the next morning...  it's under the vanity and isn't completely obvious. (perhaps I shouldn't have said anything)  :Doh:  
Andy

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## ChunkyCharcoal

Looks great.  I've just been thru the same type of job and can appreciate your work. WELL DONE! :2thumbsup:

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## Animalector

I know that you cannot use acetic cure silicone (anit fungal etc) under the WPM 001 membrane but now that I have finished the tiling I want to silicon the wall floor and wall wall junctions with white acetic cure silicone, will this react with the surface of the membrane? or is it a property that affects the curing of the membrane and not the actual final product? otherwise, I could grout the joins, however I thought it might crack out over time?? 
Suggestions? 
Thanks
Andy

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## Gooner

Interesting point. I assumed it was due to curing. I have used an acetic cure silicone (the Maxisil brand) on my joins on top of the WPM.

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## Vernonv

Why not just get a sanitary area (anti-mould) neutral cure silicone and play it safe? 
Something like Fullers 770 - http://hbfuller.com.au/catalog/data-...tml?Itemid=131

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## Animalector

Well I did say before Christmas.. and although the walls and roof aren't painted yet, the ensuite will be fully functional tomorrow afternoon (once the silicone has cured for 24 hours..) 
So all in all not a bad effort  :Happydance:  Thanks all for the help, 
Walkthrough of the build to follow in the go to woah section  :Yikes2:  
Merry Christmas    
Andy

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## Vernonv

Nice work Andy. Looks great.  :2thumbsup:

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## Gooner

Good work and well done. 
Still going with mine.....

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## an3_bolt

Looks like a nice job - I am sure you must be happy! 
Just a quick question - to get the wall tiles at the correct level - I noticed that boards were screwed to the wall - penetrating the membrane. 
Just thinking laterally - as i am going to have tackle this one in a couple of months - what about using a laser leveler to get the constant level around the bathroom walls. Use a maker pen to note this level in various points. Simply use a straight edge supported by a stack of tiles (or other support) using this as the edge to lay the first row of tiles and subsequent tiles. I noted in one of the books I was reading - the pictures of the "pro" simply had his straight edge resting on the stacks of tiles that he was going to be using later. 
Any thoughts?

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## Vernonv

> Just a quick question - to get the wall tiles at the correct level - I noticed that boards were screwed to the wall - penetrating the membrane. 
> Just thinking laterally - as i am going to have tackle this one in a couple of months - what about using a laser leveler to get the constant level around the bathroom walls. Use a maker pen to note this level in various points. Simply use a straight edge supported by a stack of tiles (or other support) using this as the edge to lay the first row of tiles and subsequent tiles. I noted in one of the books I was reading - the pictures of the "pro" simply had his straight edge resting on the stacks of tiles that he was going to be using later.

  That is certainly another way to skin the cat. 
From personal experience I prefer the screw to to wall option, as I don't have to worry about the stack compressing or shifting while laying the first row.  
As far as the resulting hole in the membrane, I just silicone it up when I am finished.

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## Animalector

It is a bit of extra work to screw in boards to get the bottom level, but worth it..  it's a one off job might take an hour or so but then the entire room is ready to go, no temporary setups required along the way... 
when we removed the wood, we painted the waterproofing membrane over the top of the hole, added some membrane tape, and painted another layer over the hole section, this meant the bottom row couldn't go down for another few days but if you do this before starting the floor tiles you have to wait for them to set anyway... 
I've just started demolishing the bathroom now (since we have a good ensuite now) and it will be all the same tile theme, so here we go again!! 
Andy

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## q9

I used a laser level to work out where to put the boards... :Smilie:  
I nailed mine up, and didn't worry at all about the holes in the waterproofing.  Can't imagine that a 1mm -2mm hole covered by a tile and probably filled with tile glue is going to let a lot of moisture through and ruin my job...? 
But yes, definately screw boards to the wall - you end up with a far superior job, and no slippage.

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## Vernonv

> I used a laser level to work out where to put the boards...

  Another option is to use a water level (bucket, water, clear hose) ... cheap, effective and very accurate.

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## AIRMAN

The only issues I have ever had when screwing the bottom rail in is that I hit a pipe, this was a solid rendered wall and there was no plumbing near the place I drilled. I made sure nothing with inline horozontally or vertically and I though I would be safe. Its the worst felling ever hitting a pipe, I had to knock a whole in the wall right through to the other side just so I could get the pipe cutters in and the place I hit was to big to patch and was inbetween to other old soft solder joints so I had to replace the whole section using a little slip join. Fun times!

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