# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Raised Decking - Advise ?

## kevvy

Currently I have bricked paving at backyard from house toward West. 
It layed too low about 20cm below door, I want to replace with raised decking to match door floor level at about 9 metre wide and 4 metre length ( 40sqm ) 
Question : What the best method to lay the raised decking in options below ? 
Option 1
Remove the brick paving, remove the sand , lay more roadbase on top of exist roadbase to raised level , lay treated pine slabs , lay decking hardwood timber ( possible Spotted gum ) 
Option 2
Leave the brick paving,  lay treated pine slabs , lay decking hardwood timber ( Issues is weed will grow through brick paving ) 
Any other better option if you have ? 
Here the photos of currently brick paving.

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## kevvy

Bump.......  
I need your advice wheither I should pull off the brick paving prior laying timber decking ?  
Or place timber decking on top of brick paving ?

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## Dr - 307

You need to remove the brick paving and sand base because it is not a solid foundation.
I would then run a wall ledger along the wall at the right height. This will support your joists against the house.
You could then put your stirrups into the ground with concrete and instead of usinng them for stumps (because you have virtually zero height) you can set up a line of them (9m long) at the 2m mark and again at the 4m mark and lie down your bearers inside them. So now you have a wall ledger attached to the house running 9m amd two rows of bearer running 9m. So three lines at 2m apart. At every post support / bearer intersection you use a 45mm block to pack the width of the stirrup because your bearer is loose as it is only 45mm wide at the stirrup is 90mm.
The thing is I think you will have to have your joists sitting inside the bearer, not on top, meaning that bearer and joists will be on the same level so instead of having 4m long joists you will have 2 x 2m joists for the same line but attached to the inside face of the bearer not sitting on top.  *But definetely no timber on the ground and if you are going to go through with building the deck then remove the pavers and sand. Do it properly.* 
That's what I would do. 
Or actually you could remove all the pavers and sand and pour a slab and screw treated pine battens sitting on top of plastic packers and lay your decking on top of that. 
Cheers,
Dr - 307.

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## kevvy

Hey Dr 307, 
I had measure the height of the door to the top of paving is 180. 
That give me the problem with not enough space between ledger and bearer , joints. 
How about put 90x45 on Ledger bolt to wall and 90x45 bearer, put 140x45 joints on top of ledger and bearer ? using 19 x 4 metre joints @ 500 spacing 
If possible do you have diagram or where can I find the diagram ( drawing ) to suit my size 9m x 4m

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## Buggermedumplings

> Hey Dr 307, 
> I had measure the height of the door to the top of paving is 180. 
> That give me the problem with not enough space between ledger and bearer , joints. 
> How about put 90x45 on Ledger bolt to wall and 90x45 bearer, put 140x45 joints on top of ledger and bearer ? using 19 x 4 metre joints @ 500 spacing 
> If possible do you have diagram or where can I find the diagram ( drawing ) to suit my size 9m x 4m

  Like Dr said, rip the bricks out and replace with a concrete slab.  Then simply dynabolt 70x35 TP to the slab (Bearers), then run 90x45 TP on top (Joists)  Decking on top brings it to 180mm.

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## kevvy

This is not encomical for me as I have to double the cost for concrete slab and timber decking. 
I will rip the brick out and the sand as well, this will expose the road base below and I will try my best to see how much space I can get from this point. 
Since the roadbase will be lower than the grass level, this will cause flooding around roadbase on wet weather.

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## manoftalent

rip out the bricksand sell them on ebay .....this will help offset the cost of concrete  :Wink 1:

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## Burnsy

Don't sell the bricks, relay them as a path around the deck.  You are best not having the turf run right up to the deck, a border of pavers around the deck will look nice as it will frame it and also is far more functional.  When you relay the pavers put a good fall on them away from the deck onto the lawn, this should help to keep the water out from under your deck.

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## kevin pickering

hi kevvy  
20cm sounds to me plenty of room to build deck base on top of layed brick patio .  
personaly , i would use 80mm x 40mm steel patio tubing for the base , this would give it a rigid and termite free base . it will also contibute to a then required step down onto the lawned area .  
there is also a range of pvc / composite decking available if you are looking to get completely termite free .

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## dazzler

Once you have removed the paving what height will you have from ground level to underside of deck bearers.  My understanding is that you will need about 450mm to meet standards, have you checked with council. 
If it doesnt comply and catches on fire or otherwise damages the house you will struggle with insurance. 
I would check this b4 deciding. 
good luck

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## kevvy

Can I use 140 x 45 TP on both bearer and joist but not on top of each other, joist attach to bearer using joist hanger. 
Meaning bearer attach to wall of house , the second bearer is about 2 metre from the wall, the 3rd bearer about 4 metre from the wall. 
After ripped out the brick paving and re-use the sand for concrete mix into post holes. Is that ok ?  
Also my budget limit, I wont installl Merbau timber straight after the TP framing, so what sort of timber sheet can I use temporancy on framing based on weather proof ? Assume it will be 2 months. Plywood or chipboard or ??

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## Bloss

> Can I use 140 x 45 TP on both bearer and joist but not on top of each other, joist attach to bearer using joist hanger. 
> Meaning bearer attach to wall of house , the second bearer is about 2 metre from the wall, the 3rd bearer about 4 metre from the wall. 
> After ripped out the brick paving and re-use the sand for concrete mix into post holes. Is that ok ?  
> Also my budget limit, I wont installl Merbau timber straight after the TP framing, so what sort of timber sheet can I use temporancy on framing based on weather proof ? Assume it will be 2 months. Plywood or chipboard or ??

  I didn't post to your first inquiry in March, but here's my two bob's worth: I disagree with most of the advice already given.  :Eek:  
1. You have a paved area that looks solid and settled with a height from it to the internal floor level of 180mm. If that is so then there is no reason to touch that paving unless you want to re-use it for something else or sell it for bugger all. Why would anyone spend money to pull that up and replace it with a concrete slab the  put decking up? You could have a concrete (or paved) deck or a timber deck, but doing both just massively increases the cost for no benefit - none (IMO)! 
2. The notion that you always have to have bearers & joists is curious too - these can be combined into a single component ie: joists can sit directly onto a sub-structure of pavers/ concrete/ soil or can sit on quite lightweight 'bearers' that are really just spacers (eg: 70x35 on the flat or edge) sitting on the pavers. Since those 'bearers' are fully supported, span becomes zero and irrelevant. 
3. First question you need to ask is which direction do you want the decking to run - parallel to the house (most common and easiest to do usually), perpendicular to the house, or some angled layout (diagonal or herringbone etc - probably not something a novice DIYer should attempt). The direction of the decking then determines the layout of the substructure. 
4. Assume you are doing it the most common way that the decking runs parallel with the house 9m along and out 4m from the house (covering the existing paving). This means that along the wall edge you would run 9m of 70x45 H3 treated pine sitting (and levelled) on top of the pavers; on the outer edge along the inside of the existing strirrups/ posts would be another run 9m of 70x45 H3 treated pine (packed level lengthways); equidistant to those (with a spacing of around 1.3m would be two other runs the same. These are your bearers (4 in all). On top of these running out from the wall will be 90x45 or 90x35 TP joists at 400-450 centres; on top of that your decking runs lengthways. Total depth is bearers 70mm + joists 90mm + decking 19mm (or 22 if TP) = 180mm. If you want fall (but if decking has 3mm-4mm spacing and as it is under a roof anyway no fall is needed really) then the outer bearer can be trimmed down to 60mm or so and then the two centre bearers set using a string line from the inner bearer top the outer bearer, but as the pavers most likely already have fall this needs to be checked on site. 
5. The bearers need only sufficient fixing to keep them on place so you can place and fix the joists - if you simply fix a joist at either end and 3 or four to start with in between you will have enough rigidity to get the others in place and fixed (triple-grips are best although on the ground like this just TP coated or gal screws or nails skewed in would be fine to. Once all fixed together this deck will be stable and held in pace by the wall and the outer posts. If you were concerned you could put some brackets at either end onto the pavers, but as a complete structure it will take a lot of force to move it sideways! 
6. There is not need for post holes in a structure like this that is on the ground. H3 treated pine is rot and termite proof and in this situation will last for 25 years or more. If you remove the pavers and sand you would need to use H4-H5 TP for the timber in/on the ground. 
Why create more work and incur higher cost than you need to? leave the pavers in place and just deck over it.  :2thumbsup:  :2thumbsup:  
For a temporary cover use CD or DD 12mm or 16mm ply and just oil it using  the cheapest oil - even vegetable oil. It will last for yonks so long as you oil it and repeat the oiling every three months or so. If you prefer colour an alternative is to simply coat with a few coats of cheap external acrylic paint - get some clean sandpit sand (not brickies) and sprinkle over the first coat then roll on another coat (or two). Sometimes you can pick up laminated formply from second building supply yards at a good price and it needs no coating and will last a couple of years or more.  
BTW - Do search on this forum as there are plenty for posts with other info that will help and also get a copy of Allan Staines' book _Decks & Pergolas_ - $30 or so at Bunnings & elsewhere and worth every cent.  :2thumbsup:

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## Uncle Bob

> get a copy of Allan Staines' book _Decks & Pergolas_ - $30 or so at Bunnings & elsewhere and worth every cent.

  I hope you're getting commission on this book Oldbloss  :Biggrin:  
I gotta say I haven't seen grass that healthy and green since, well, since I was in NZ  :Shock: 
(reminds me that I've got to post about my desert backyard and the problem with lawn grubs/beetles)

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## Bloss

> I hope you're getting commission on this book Oldbloss  
> I gotta say I haven't seen grass that healthy and green since, well, since I was in NZ 
> (reminds me that I've got to post about my desert backyard and the problem with lawn grubs/beetles)

  I am not, should write to him eh!  :Biggrin:  :2thumbsup:  
If you have got lawn grubs or beetles in your Canberra lawns no point in doing anything about it right now - January's the time for beetle activity and the best time to kill them. Grub activity is in spring and they are much harder to kill. There is a CSIRO website about it I recall and you can now get a biological control to use rather than spraying, but as I said timing is everything so check the site. A product called Baythroid Lawn Beetle Killer is supposed to flush them to the surface (from October to November) and they can be killed, but I have not used it (I got rid of all my lawn as there was none after the fires so I didn't replace).

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## john0

its a good thing your diggin up old threads oldbloss, or these poor fellas would be doin their a$$es, pourin slabs etc. or has he allready??? if i was asked to put a deck in that situation, first thing i would notice is the 4 pergola posts..just dying to have a bearer bolted to them...with 140x45 joists on joist hangers at 450 ctrs back towards the house to another 140x45 bearer resting on pavers (or raised if extra height reguired or to obtain level) this bearer wont even need to be fixed, it would be safe and sound on those pavers and once the decking is on, solid as a rock. 
plus a good selling point.."if you dont like that deck.. i'll rip it up, theres pavers underneath. Really theres a million ways to do things, and for the average joe cost and effort are key. keep it simple.

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## Bloss

> its a good thing your diggin up old threads oldbloss, or these poor fellas would be doin their a$, pourin slabs etc. or has he allready??? if i was asked to put a deck in that situation, first thing i would notice is the 4 pergola posts..just dying to have a bearer bolted to them...with 140x45 joists on joist hangers at 450 ctrs back towards the house to another 140x45 bearer resting on pavers (or raised if extra height reguired or to obtain level) this bearer wont even need to be fixed, it would be safe and sound on those pavers and once the decking is on, solid as a rock. 
> plus a good selling point.."if you dont like that deck.. i'll rip it up, theres pavers underneath. Really theres a million ways to do things, and for the average joe cost and effort are key. keep it simple.

  I didn't dig it up - kevvy came back in on 4th Sept and still hadn't done the job so i put my two bob's worth in.  :Smilie:  As you say simple if ya can - the 'Keep It Simple Stupid' KISS principle seems to have been forgotten - and forgetting it costs money too. Although given my long-winded description I need to re-learn that myself - I took all that space to describe what you said in a couple of lines!  :Blush7:   :2thumbsup:

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## kevvy

I have finally ripped off the paving bricks yesterday, I have not finished it yet. 
I have ordered 140x45 TP bearers / joists and couples of hangers due to delivery this Friday. 
This weekend, I am finish off the paving and clear out the sands, marking the holes for stirrups. 
Hopefully to bolt bearer to the wall by this weekend. 
I am waiting for my mates to help me with concrete mixes perhaps next weekend or so. 
I find the price of hidden screws is expensive, it would cost me about $600 for the whole deck, Where the stainless screws would cost much cheaper. I prefer the hidden screws, look good.  Anyone knows the bargain of hidden screws ?

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## Harry72

I reckon why not build up the base under the pavers to the height required... damned site and easier to do and less too maintain in the long run "KISS"

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## kevvy

I have almost complete the framing stage of Decking. 
One section I cannot fit 450mm wide between joist as it is blocked by sewage pipe. so I increased to 520mm. Will that be a problem for Spotted Gum decking ?  
If that will cause bouncing on that section then I will have to add center joist between 520mm to secure the decking timber.

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## kevvy

After long excuse for not put up photos during building stage of decking. 
Here all the photos from start to finish.

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