# Forum Home Renovation Plastering  Square set cornice or shadowline

## Lena

Can someone please help, our ceiling will be raked and the room includes a kitchen where the cabinets (or bulkhead) go to the ceiling. So I'm thinking a cornice wouldn't work. I've seen photos of shadow lines but can't work out what square set looks like.
Whats the difference between square set, and just a wall that goes up to the ceiling and stops?
what would you recommend in an open plan room with kitchen and raked ceiling where there are clerestory windows?
thanks

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## phild01



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## Lena

> 

  Thanks but that picture doesn't mean anything to me. Has the hole in the ceiling and the stud wall got anything to do with it? Which is the square set bit? If it's the joining of the wall to the ceiling, is it just the meeting of the 2 without a cornice?

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## phild01

Sorry to confuse you but your deduction is correct.  Where the walls meets the ceilng, it has simply been 'square set'.

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## Lena

Ok thanks .. I thought it must be something more complicated, as I read that cracking could be an issue with square set. (?) what would you recommend, square set or shadowline in an open plan room with kitchen and raked ceiling where there are clerestory windows? Or is this just a personal taste thing and there is no best way?

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## phild01

I did shadowline in some rooms and square set in the living/kitchen area.  I like both but it also depends on the room.  For the raked ceiling, as in that pic, as well as certain room features, I love the square set.  If a room is just a box, then square setting can just make the room look too plain.  I think square setting works best in rooms that have modern 'architectural' relief features, if you know what I mean. 
Cracking is only a problem with settlement, truss roofs, or poor construction.  Cornices typically crack with the same  problems.

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## Sir Stinkalot

For a raked ceiling I would recommend square set.

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## Lena

> For a raked ceiling I would recommend square set.

   Thanks. My partner wants shadowline. Can you give me some arguments I can use against shadowline?!!

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## Spottiswoode

Shadow line provides a bit of a gap. Spiders like gaps.

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## OBBob

:Smilie:

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## Marc

To me shadowline looks unfinished. When are you going to put a cornice up there?

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## OBBob

All I can see is spiders ... eek.

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## Marc

And cockroaches ... not to mention ants, geckos, rabbits ... well would you believe small rabbits? mice? fleas?  :Smilie: 
Heat escaping, roof cavity insulation coming down, dust, who ever thought of that has never been in a roof cavity after 10 years.

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## Lena

> Shadow line provides a bit of a gap. Spiders like gaps.

  That won't deter him. He likes spiders & I do the vacuuming

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## Lena

> And cockroaches ... not to mention ants, geckos, rabbits ... well would you believe small rabbits? mice? fleas? 
> Heat escaping, roof cavity insulation coming down, dust, who ever thought of that has never been in a roof cavity after 10 years.

  Ah, that would work. We are doing a lot of extra insulation - I didn't realise that shadowline would affect this! Can you elaborate on heat escaping (and I suppose coming in?)

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## Marc

To be fair, if done properly shadowline should probably have a wood frame all around to screw against it.

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## Lena

> To be fair, if done properly shadowline should probably have a wood frame all around to screw against it.

  Would ths be standard? It sounds a lot more expensive than square set?

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## phild01

Shadowline does not leave any gap to the roof space if done properly, the slither gap is finished off with a paintable filler. It does not need any additional framing either.

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## Sir Stinkalot

Not a huge difference in price between square set and shadow line. In your situation with a raked roof I would go square set as it would be easier than trying to set the shadow line on an angle. You will also get a different viewing angle into any shadow line as the junction is greater than 90deg. Where you have your highlight windows, if they go to ceiling line then any shadow line is typically stopped here and the ceiling runs into the window frame. 
My preference is typically shadow line as I think it gives a clean finish and a visual break between the wall and the ceiling. In our extension we have used square set for the wet areas and shadow line for the open plan areas.

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## Lena

> Shadowline does not leave any gap to the roof space if done properly, the slither gap is finished off with a paintable filler. It does not need any additional framing either.

  We are under the flight path so concerned about acoustic insulation - this slither gap - it wouldn't leave a 'hole' in the insulation? What sort of filler would it be insulation wise, would it be the equivalent of the ceiling/wall material?

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## phild01

Funny talking about such things as yesterday I knocked over a can of varnish.  Bed-time and found a blob of varnish on my bed, found it's way through that slither that I hadn't finished off :Frown:  _edit: should expand on that comment, have shadowline around a beam directly over the bed._  
Shadowline profiles include the metal recessed barrier but inevitably, because walls aren't perfect, that metal edge fails to be in continuous contact with the wall and can leave a slither type gap.  It needs a filler. 
As for acoustics, I expect it is less effective than square set but I am not certain. 
Roof insulation would be no different to what is normally done.  A paintable gap filler is best, maybe 11FC or no more gaps.

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## Lena

Thanks for all your replies, very helpful

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## Lena

> To me shadowline looks unfinished. When are you going to put a cornice up there?

  Yes that looks really unfinished to me

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## Sir Stinkalot

When the walls and ceiling have been painted, and the camera view is of a standard sight line, not trying to look up in the shadow, it will look much better.

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## Sir Stinkalot

Another plus for shadow line is that it gives a cleaner finish if the wall and ceiling paint colours differ significantly.

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## Lena

> Not a huge difference in price between square set and shadow line. In your situation with a raked roof I would go square set as it would be easier than trying to set the shadow line on an angle. You will also get a different viewing angle into any shadow line as the junction is greater than 90deg. Where you have your highlight windows, if they go to ceiling line then any shadow line is typically stopped here and the ceiling runs into the window frame. 
> My preference is typically shadow line as I think it gives a clean finish and a visual break between the wall and the ceiling. In our extension we have used square set for the wet areas and shadow line for the open plan areas.

  One more question just so I've got it right 
In this photo is it shadowline on the right above the cupboards, and square set to the left (ie the opposite of what you have?)   
and are these 2 shadowline above the cupboards   
thanks

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## Sir Stinkalot

All of your examples show a shadow line above the joinery which is a little different to your situation. The image with the blue chairs has a square set junction where the walls meet the ceiling.

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## r3nov8or

Those images aren't actually of shadowline plaster. It's just that the cupboards need a little clearance from the ceiling to not scratch it when the highest doors are operated. I'll bet the plaster is squareset behind the cupboards

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## Marc

I would go square line so everyone is happy. 
Lena, you have one more argument against shadow line, the varnish blob on the bed would convince the most recalcitrant  :Rofl5:  
This is what happens if you have shadow line and tip over a can of paint in the roof cavity.

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## r3nov8or

> One more question just so I've got it right 
> In this photo is it shadowline on the right above the cupboards, and square set to the left (ie the opposite of what you have?)   
> and are these 2 shadowline above the cupboards   
> thanks

  Also, if you going to do this (cupboards within a poofteenth of the ceiling) you'd better pay for a perfectly flat ceiling no questions asked!

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## Sir Stinkalot

Marc .... Please elaborate on the difference between square line and square set  :Tongue:

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## r3nov8or

Or is that shadow set?  :Tongue:

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## Marc

Shadow set is much more elaborate, it's like a shadow of square set, not many left that can do that.
Square line is easy, you just need a square pencil to do it. 
Lena, don't ring your Psychiatrist just yet, this is what we do here, just having fun.   :Rofl5:

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## METRIX

> Yes that looks really unfinished to me

  Thats because it is unfinished  :Biggrin:

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## Lena

> Thats because it is unfinished

  Oh .. ok !! (duh)
I was thinking we would have to toss a coin, but this is convincing -
". In your situation with a raked roof I would go square set as it would be easier than trying to set the shadow line on an angle. You will also get a different viewing angle into any shadow line as the junction is greater than 90deg. "
And I like the cupboards with that line above, will have to make sure the ceiling there is flat
Thanks for help (and making me laugh)

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## JB1

> To me shadowline looks unfinished. When are you going to put a cornice up there?

  I like cornices (just not the scotia). 
Square set looks a bit boring to me in a normal room. 
I prefer  shadowline to squareset, it has a little detail which I like. 
Also in 2030 you will love yourself when you repaint your wall. Think about how much quicker it will be to cut in.         
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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## OBBob

> ... 
> Also in 2030 you will love yourself when you repaint your wall. Think about how much quicker it will be to cut in. 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  Cornice will be back in fashion by then and it'll probably glow through some technological breakthrough to provide soft back lighting.

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