# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Does this quote sound right? (new kitchen)

## _kelly_

I got my first quote today for a new kitchen.  It's considerably more that what  I had budgeted for and what they knew I wanted to spend (perhaps not a smart move to go around sharing such info).   
For $20k I am being given basic old Laminate with a flat edge (I think the curved version is ABS?)...so, basically what I already have only brand new and presumably better made (& FWIW that price does not include any kind of splashback nor, of course, appliances). 
What exactly I get for my moola: 
* L-shaped area measuring approx. 3 metres x 2 metres (standard bench width whatever that is <1 metre).  In that L-shaped area will be 3 x 3 sets of drawers ~ 1 metre wide and a pantry (not sure of exact measurements here as they took the drawings so I couldn't pinch 'em  :Biggrin:  ) but door will be around 80cm wide and 2m high.  
*An island bench measuring around 2 metres x 1.5 metres.  
*20mm Caeserstone benchtops to both areas. 
Don't know if anyone can give me any advice on whether this seems OTT? Or am I just being unreasonable?  Should I shop around some more? ANy recs for Melb?

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## arms

its not really up to us to tell you if your quote sounds ok ,its more the case of "does the quote sound allright to me ",was it given in a timely manner ,is the company a large concern in melbourne,were you asked to make a decision on the spot ,did they drop the price when you hesitated with signing up ,how does your other quotes (you did get some didnt you)compare ,do they make the kitchen themselves or simply get someone else to make it and just add their cop on top ,so many questions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and only answering them will give you your answer

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## Bloss

Seems high to me - I have seen $13-15K for the same sorts of specs. Especially with no appliances. Shop around some more - and simply tell them what functionality you need - not your budget (as you now know!).  :Biggrin:  Can be useful to go to Bunnings or elsewhere get one of the kitchen flat-pack planning guides, put together how you'd like to see it - or a couple of options - and use what you come up with doing that for a cost and design comparison. They often give estimated labour times too although plumber and sparky costs can add up.  :2thumbsup:

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## Terrian

http://www.mitre10.com.au/kitchenpla...ash/index.html

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## _kelly_

> http://www.mitre10.com.au/kitchenpla...ash/index.html

   :2thumbsup:  thanks for that, you're a star  :Biggrin:  
I've been checking out the Cabinet Makers Assoc of Vic website and getting the contact details of numerous other kitchen manufacturers so I will definitely be getting more quotes.  Off to see some showrooms tomorrow.   
As for this mob I got the quote from, they've been around 30+ years in Melbs leafy eastern burbs and come highly recommended.  My main problem is that they knew I had a budget - admittedly it was flexible within 2-3k - but they've gone over that...and more! I don't know why they bothered to come out and waste 2 hours of their time measuring and talking to me when they knew I wasn't going to go that high.  Seems weird to me  :Confused:

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## president_ltd

kitchens can be quite pricey, particularly when it comes to cupboards etc. 
for the size bench you're talking, i'd say there is $3.5K there (stone/granite top). 
for kitchen cupboards/pantry, i assume thats the laminate part you're talking about... we went for real wood cupboards (tas blackwood?), wasn't much change out of $10K for that. 
then there is the appliances, sink + tapware.  and splashbacks.  and rangehood. 
and any other trades (plumber, sparkie, tiler) on top of that.

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## _kelly_

> kitchens can be quite pricey, particularly when it comes to cupboards etc. 
> for the size bench you're talking, i'd say there is $3.5K there (stone/granite top). 
> for kitchen cupboards/pantry, i assume thats the laminate part you're talking about... we went for real wood cupboards (tas blackwood?), wasn't much change out of $10K for that. 
> then there is the appliances, sink + tapware.  and splashbacks.  and rangehood. 
> and any other trades (plumber, sparkie, tiler) on top of that.

  
Price doesn't include any appliances or tapware..no even the proverbial kitchen sink.  No splashback either.  Basically just the cabinets and benchtop installed and...*whoosh* they're out the door with $20 large!

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## nang3

have you got a plan? seems pretty exxy to me i think... 
this is our layout  http://members.iinet.net.au/~armstronghome/benchtop.jpg 
and with a 30mm stone benchtop, waterfall end and these cabinets 
2 x 700mm wide 3 drawer banks with steel sides, Hettich Innotech and Quadra soft shut runners - 6 drawer fronts
1 x 900mm x 1200mm corner unit - 3 doors
1 x 900mm sink unit - 2 doors
1 x 900mm wide 3 pot drawer with hettich/quadra etc 3 drawer fronts
1 x 600mm wide pantry - 1 big door
1 x 900mm wide fridge cabinet with depth extended to match the pantry. - 2 doors 
plus Blum inner pullout drawers for the pantry, pantry end panel, soft shuts for the doors and all handles etc its up to around $13-14k or so..
thats DIY though but its the same quality gear - 16mm solid backs all HMR etc etc..

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## Ronaldo451

I picked a few brains about the best layout, functionality and features for a kitchen. Then translated this into a plan with spec list of features - number of drawers, size and thickness of stone benchtops etc and emailed out to 7 companies recommended by tradies I trusted seeking an installed price with a separate price for 'extras' such as Blum draw runners etc. Got the 'best' 3 out for a site visit and finalise/confirm quote. 
Did not go with the cheapest, but the mob that struck us as providing a quality product on time at a reasonable price. Worked out A1 - got L shape 30mm quantum stone benchtops (2200 and 2500 long), separate island bench with stone top, 2 glass splashbacks, polyurethane gloss finish on the drawers and doors, overhead cupboards on one side, 2700 high pantry and a total of 14 drawers with Blum 'no slam' runners installed for $14,000. Could not be happier. 
Sort out exactly what you need/want, prepare a detailed plan and spec list and get a few quotes..

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## _kelly_

> I picked a few brains about the best layout, functionality and features for a kitchen. Then translated this into a plan with spec list of features - number of drawers, size and thickness of stone benchtops etc and emailed out to 7 companies recommended by tradies I trusted seeking an installed price with a separate price for 'extras' such as Blum draw runners etc. Got the 'best' 3 out for a site visit and finalise/confirm quote.

  Sounds like a plan...thanks I will give that a go, much less time consuming for everyone invoved.   

> ...got L shape 30mm quantum stone benchtops (2200 and 2500 long), separate island bench with stone top, 2 glass splashbacks, polyurethane gloss finish on the drawers and doors, overhead cupboards on one side, 2700 high pantry and a total of 14 drawers with Blum 'no slam' runners installed for $14,000

  Sound like a bargain!  One of the few times I wished I lived in Sydney  :Wink:  
Thanks to all for the info provided.  Hopefully I will get my kitchen before the end of the year  :Smilie:

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## Terrian

> thanks for that, you're a star

  Yes, I am, aren't I  :Wink:  
Na, the in laws have been doing the rounds for a new kitchen, looks like the FIL is going to make it himself (frames & doors, will buy the benchtop though) 
There are a couple of other sites with similar online planner, but mitre10 was the only one that included quote for what you want.

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## _kelly_

Just a bit of an update: they got back to me today and turns out that they can do the Laminate with 2mm ABS edging and all of a sudden the drawers are all going to be soft close.  If I hang out another week or so I wonder if I can get 2pac for the same price  :Biggrin:  :Wink:

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## GraemeCook

> * L-shaped area measuring approx. 3 metres x 2 metres (standard bench width whatever that is <1 metre).  In that L-shaped area will be 3 x 3 sets of drawers ~ 1 metre wide and a pantry (*not sure of exact measurements here as they took the drawings* so I couldn't pinch 'em  ) but door will be around 80cm wide and 2m high.

  
Hi Kelly 
I would run away from these clowns real quick.  Anyone who expects you to consider an offer without the drawings and specifications so that you know precisely what you are considering is either incompetent or dishonest (or both). 
Can you post a picture of you proposal?  We might be able to suggest some ways to design more cost effectively; 
*  Corner units (L-shapes) are much harder and expensive to build than strait cupboards and also create difficult to access cupboards.  Can you redesign to eliminate L-sh
apes? 
*  Drawers initially cost more but hold a lot more than the cupboards, so are ultimately cheaper. 
*  Full extension drawers are much more accessibly than cheaper part-extension runners. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## jamc0984

Im of the opinion, if you moderately are handy, why not give it a go yourself. Or employ the help of a couple of capably friends for a couple of weekends hard work. 
I installed a Bunnings flat pack kitchen myself and have had no probs, and absolutely stoked with the look. The cabinetry, although a pain to assemble is fairly good quality (18mm laminated board). You can upspec to whatever doors you like with quite a good range. My total kitchen cost for a huge U-shaped kitchen came in at around $10000 including appliences, benchtop (laminate from cabinet makers, with waterfall end and splash backs (painted perspex, and stainless behind cooktop). 
My only problem is the gloss white door fronts have discoloured with UV exposure, so im in the process of pricing replacements (1.5 years on from installation). 
Kitchen made up of:
3 x 800mm base cabinets
1 x 400mm draw cabinet
2 x 900mm corner cabinets
1 x 600mm (2010mm) pantry cabinet
Above fridge cabinet
End pannels
Roller door cabinet (ikea)
1 x 900mm wall cabinet
1 x 450mm wall cabinet
1 x 150m infill wall cab
range hood cabinet
extra 800mm base cabinet used as a fill cabinet.
1 x 300 mm base cabinet 
Total bench area of 5ish square metres. 
If you take this road, i would suggest upgrading to a few extras before installation. Things like better quality hinges and draw runner (blum for example) and internal fittings (like lazy susans in corner cabinets and soft close doors). 
Good luck! I recently had a bathroom reno'd and installed, and i found with the bathroom mobs that there was such a dramatic difference between quotes. One guy quoted me $16000 for a 4m2 bathroom. Included in this price was all materials excluding vanity and tiling to 300mm below ceiling height. It included mostly low spec materials.   
I got another guy in that quoted me $6500 for all labour (plumbing, electrical, tiling to ceiling etc etc) and i had to supply all fittings and fixtures. I went over the top and bought lavish luxury items (no bath) and all i could spend was a further $4000. Way under original quote, with much better finish and fixtures.  
My point it, quote around. Even look into sourcing your own cabinetry (flat pack places around, bunnings, ikea) and paying for installations. 
James

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## nang3

Sounds like KitCraft Kitchens or a variation of.. they were the only mob in perth to not let me take away their crappy psuedo 3D mockups of how our kitchen would look, were also one of the most exxy too.     

> Hi Kelly 
> I would run away from these clowns real quick. Anyone who expects you to consider an offer without the drawings and specifications so that you know precisely what you are considering is either incompetent or dishonest (or both). 
> Can you post a picture of you proposal? We might be able to suggest some ways to design more cost effectively; 
> * Corner units (L-shapes) are much harder and expensive to build than strait cupboards and also create difficult to access cupboards. Can you redesign to eliminate L-sh
> apes? 
> * Drawers initially cost more but hold a lot more than the cupboards, so are ultimately cheaper. 
> * Full extension drawers are much more accessibly than cheaper part-extension runners. 
> Cheers 
> Graeme

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## _kelly_

Sorry to come back to this again  :Smilie:  
I have had a couple more quotes and the ball park seems to be somewhere around $16k - for that I am getting Laminate cabinetry (& 2mm ABS edging), Hettitch or Blum soft close drawers, Starphire glass splashback and Caeserstone benches.  That's fully installed and the old kitchen ripped out.  That's a bit more to my budget thank goodness! 
My question is this:
Anyone had experience with Polytech's melamine doors?  The manufacturer I am considering working with uses Polytech's laminates/melamines and vinyl wraps or Wilsonart Laminates.  Polytech is a better price...and it just so happens has a better colour range (or one that I prefer). 
I am looking for any feedback on the product - good or bad. And if anyone wants to explain to me what exactly the difference is between melamine and laminate please feel free  :Biggrin:

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## myla

hello, 
try ikea as well, they have great designs, prices are all laid out for all items 
have friend who has used in 3 houses and all very good 
thanks
myla

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## arms

[quote=_kelly_;759036]Sorry to come back to this again  :Smilie:  
I have had a couple more quotes and the ball park seems to be somewhere around $16k - for that I am getting Laminate cabinetry (& 2mm ABS edging), Hettitch or Blum soft close drawers, Starphire glass splashback and Caeserstone benches. That's fully installed and the old kitchen ripped out. That's a bit more to my budget thank goodness! 
My question is this:
Anyone had experience with Polytech's melamine doors? The manufacturer I am considering working with uses Polytech's laminates/melamines and vinyl wraps or Wilsonart Laminates. Polytech is a better price...and it just so happens has a better colour range (or one that I prefer). 
I am looking for any feedback on the product - good or bad. And if anyone wants to explain to me what exactly the difference is between melamine and laminate please feel free  :Biggrin: [/quote 
i have used polytech on several jobs ,cant fault the product really ,clean finish,good price,and best of all ENTIRELY AUSTRALIAN MADE .
btw melamine is a thin coating that is applied to a substrate(particleboard or mdf ) which gives the board its external colour .Laminate is a thin sheet of a melamine coated plastic that is glued to a sheet of board as on a bench top ,melamine is only recommended for a vertical surface(doors and panels) and laminate can be used for vertical AND horizontal surfaces (tops) :Biggrin:

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## _kelly_

> i have used polytech on several jobs ,cant fault the product really ,clean finish,good price,and best of all ENTIRELY AUSTRALIAN MADE .
> btw melamine is a thin coating that is applied to a substrate(particleboard or mdf ) which gives the board its external colour .Laminate is a thin sheet of a melamine coated plastic that is glued to a sheet of board as on a bench top ,melamine is only recommended for a vertical surface(doors and panels) and laminate can be used for vertical AND horizontal surfaces (tops)

  thanks for that info...just what i needed to know!   :Smilie:

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## seriph1

It really interests me how people decide on what their budget is for a kitchen  -  it seems we know so little about the different products and qualities that are available it would be near impossible to differentiate between a 'good' one or a 'bad' one .... in my experience too, kitchen salespeople are relatively inept when it comes to justifying price or explaining the benefits of their particular product, opting for the bait-and-switch routine of saying stuff like "but you get the special nong-1000 widget storage unit if you buy from us!" 
In the old days I was told the industry was even worse, with salespeople (called designers ....gawd!) being paid commission only and sharing in a little thing called "overs"  -  here's how it went. A $15000 kitchen was sold for $22,000 but if Mr and Mrs prospect signed today they'd get it for $20,000 as a special deal (because they were such lovely people I imagine) ... .then the additional $5000 was split 50/50 with the boss. I was told that the sales-droid was paid 20% commission, bringing their earnings to $5500 for the kitchen in this scenario. After the contract was signed (in blood) customers had no further contact with the salesperson, as their job was done and they were on to the next victim.

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## nang3

^^^ sounds like KitCrafts business model - i've had about 4 quotes from them over a 2 year period and each time i was fast approaching the cutoff for their valued customer 20% discount!!!!

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## _kelly_

> *It really interests me how people decide on what their budget is for a kitchen*  -  it seems we know so little about the different products and qualities that are available it would be near impossible to differentiate between a 'good' one or a 'bad' one

  My bank balance decided that for me pure and simple  :Wink:  
Actually, I've learned a heck of a lot about stuff I thought I would never give a fat rats about through this process and it's been    kinda fun too.   
My budget was always flexible by some $3,000 but I truly think the majority of kitchen mobs are out to absolutely screw you for as much as they can get away with.  Take my first quote: that company quoted me $20k for what was a very basic kitchen (IMO) but, realising they had not heard back from me, were suddenly and without reason able to include all sorts of extra goodies that they couldn't before!  The took me for a pigeon (and I probably was) and I let them get away with it because I was not educated.  That experience at least helped me ascertain what sort of gear I should _expect_  in a kitchen costing $15-20k.  Since then I have made sure I have asked for those 'goodies' to be included as standard...and voila! no-one has lifted an eye-brow so far or accused me of being unreasonable.

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## seriph1

hear you loud and clear - we all have to work within the constraints of a budget, but I think folks will agree that at times we see something better or more appropriate for our home and often adjust our budget to be able to get the thing we want. Basically, given the opportunity to choose a better product, we often find the money .... not always, but often.  
A RANT FOLLOWS  -  feel free to click off  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  
For professionals in the design industry, we need to be better at explaining why people should select one thing over another  -  and in my experience, we are bad at that.... often becoming irate that a person doesn't just do what theyre told and trust us .... ridiculous! 
My clients always have some kind of budget in mind which is often below what they need to spend to get the result theyre looking for (I design high quality period-style kitchens that are made using furniture making techniques and attitudes) - I just tell them right at the start if it is realistic or not, so we don't waste each other's time. Some go elsewhere and some seek further information as to where their money will be going. It is crazy to expect clients to be realistic in their budget if they have no solid information to go on ..... I have discovered that most people will at least consider what I have to say, in order to better understand where their hard earned bucks will be going. And the ones that do business with me, will always see the value  -  and it seems our work isn't much more expensive than the others anyway. It may be because we don't operate on a buy in-and-add-margin principle, we make stuff. 
I can't vouch for what other kitchen designers do, but I always work hard to stay within a client's adjusted (i.e. realistic) budget and give people a result that is at least what they ask for but usually beyond. For example, I love saving people money on appliances .... this means they have more to spend on the details. The last kitchen I completed had appliances from Germany and France, knobs from England and Germany, sinks from Italy, tapware from the US and timber from a 120 year old warehouse in Port Melbourne. Interiors were either solid timber or woodgrain melamine and the exteriors were all hand painted using Porter's paints or polished timber. No vinyl wrap, no imperite, no laminex etc. 
The overall cost was just under $50,000 which included a large buffet and hutch for their dining space as well. The home is worth $750,000 at least so I guess from that perspective it was reasonable. The people clearly had the funds to get the result they wanted but their stated budget at the first meeting was $20,000. The bottom line was this: they sit in their true-to-period, 1920's kitchen and know precisely where their money went.

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## nang3

> My bank balance decided that for me pure and simple  
> Actually, I've learned a heck of a lot about stuff I thought I would never give a fat rats about through this process and it's been kinda fun too.  
> My budget was always flexible by some $3,000 but I truly think the majority of kitchen mobs are out to absolutely screw you for as much as they can get away with. Take my first quote: that company quoted me $20k for what was a very basic kitchen (IMO) but, realising they had not heard back from me, were suddenly and without reason able to include all sorts of extra goodies that they couldn't before! The took me for a pigeon (and I probably was) and I let them get away with it because I was not educated. That experience at least helped me ascertain what sort of gear I should _expect_ in a kitchen costing $15-20k. Since then I have made sure I have asked for those 'goodies' to be included as standard...and voila! no-one has lifted an eye-brow so far or accused me of being unreasonable.

  
Thats exactly what they do !!!!! I had no clue early on and I got a few quotes, one that had the materials, features and layout of what we wanted came to $32,000 plus appliances and trades which based on the appliances we wanted would see it to an even $40,000. 
I did some ringing around to wholesalers / trade suppliers , did some research etc and worked out i could do it myself and save a bucketload of coin as the markups these tossers put on some things was ridiculous and over the top.
e.g.
Soft Shut Doors - they wanted $27 per door to upgrade to soft shut doors.. I discovered they were just clip on style available from Galvins for like $2 each and take 2 nanoseconds to fit 
Blum Pantry Pullout Drawers - quoted at $390 each x 5 drawers = $1950.. local cabinetmaker made them up for me for $139 each. 
Matte Vinyl vs Gloss Vinyl vs 2 pack painted - quoted X for matt vinyl, X + $3k for gloss vinyl then X + $5k for 2 pack.. Ended up sourcing my own 2 pack doors for sub $2k delivered and after comparing them, are better quality than the original quoted ones. 
as of this point in time we have finished everything with all appliances and all trades and only waiting on a few overhead units which will cost $1000, glass splashbacks which will be around $2000 and maybe $500 for kickplates,  we have spent a total of  $19,538 so far... a lot different to $40k !!!!!

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## seriph1

Of course, this doesn't take into account any costs for your time and labour (and anyone else who helped for free) but your price difference sounds about right.  
I am not about to defend many of the pathetic practices of some companies, but I would be keen to know how many hours you spent in total, researching everything, dealing with industry people and traders, sourcing the products, making whatever you needed to and then installing it all etc.  
I am also not going to say the $40K quoted was fair or reasonable as I don't know anything about your particular job  -  but if you apply a commercial hourly rate to the whole thing, to cover all wages & commissions, insurances, machinery, general running costs and importantly, funds to cover any potential warranty claims  -  it will give a good indication as to the real savings. 
The margins in the kitchen industry are substantial, which from one perspective makes it a very good business, giving people the opportunity to make beautiful things, and a substantial income. It does seem odd then, that the industry has so many 'characters' in it with very poor behaviours.

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## _kelly_

i think it's a d@mn shame so many of them seem intent on ripping off the customer.  I guess they get away with it often enough to make it worthwhile. 
yesterday i spoke with a chap who looked me square in the eyes and quoted me $7k for a Caeserstone benchtop.  At the other end of the spectrum the kitchen folks i am leaning toward quoted me $3500 but, at the same time, suggested i would be better off sourcing the stone myself and i would likely get a better price.  So i contacted a reputable stonemason and he'll do it for $2900  :Shock:  
It's the same bloody material so where's the justification for the mark up from guy #1 ?   :Annoyed:

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## seriph1

hopefully it is caeserstone  -  there are alternatives now brought in that are only meant for use as splashbacks being sold as benchtop material  -  they do look identical but have totally different wear characteristics. 
I have a supplier who has a factory in China and Melbourne who has never let me down.... especially when it comes to getting the right product for the right price and making sure it FITS correctly!  
On one job I am aware of, the client supplied their own benchtops that they had bought from an auction place or similar  -  they got the deal of the century apparently.... then tried to blame the cabinet maker because there was a 3mm gap in the middle of one bench where a tall appliance garage had been placed (rests on the benchtop)  -  client claimed the cabinet's weight must've made the STONE bench bend in the middle  -  sigh. 
The problem was that the stone was polished by hand, using hand tools and too much pressure was put in the middle causing the hollow..... using a straight edge, other hollows were found all over the benches ... thanks God for silicon 
Apparently those benches cost him $3700  -  he was quoted $4400 for ones guaranteed to be 100% correct.

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## president_ltd

to give you more of an idea of pricing.... 
first, attached is our kitchen plan.
we renovated entire house with a builder but worked closely with his preferred cabinet maker on the kitchen parts. 
this is the plan that we gave to our cabinet maker.
as you can see, its very very very detailed.  i think that helps in terms of ensuring everyone is on the same page with what you want specification wise etc. 
(note that the below here includes our laundry cupboard too, because we got the benchtop (granite) and cupboards for both kitchen + laundry at the same time...) 
1.
cabinet maker supplied all the kitchen cupboards, pantry and laundry shelves/carcasses, drawers, soft closers etc.
overhead cupbards, drawers, cupboards etc made in Tas Blackwood (solid timber).
Tas Blackwood veneer for front of bench & pantries.  just melamine carcasses for the laundry.  cabinet maker's price was ~$10K. 
going for solid wood finish here is the pricey option, but i think the look is fantastic. http://www.nikpol.com.au/doors_timber_classic.htm gives you nice pictures of what i'm talking about.  
2.
benchtop is granite, rounded-edge on all sides & polished where kitchen sink & laundry trough are.  total price for that was around $3200.
we used the cabinet maker's preferred supplier, but did check prices with a few other places.  the cabinet maker supplied the template to them for us, they came out & installed when the time came (including doing cutout for stovetop). 
3.
tiles for splashback and stainless for behind stove top was around $400-500 materials.
labour costs for installation was a few hundred $$ (builder did these, so effectively paying for his time) 
4.
appliances - new stovetop, undermount bench oven, rangehood & kitchen sink.
each to their own here.  :Smilie: 
got a nice "whirlpool" brand oven & stove top (ironically the Smeg ones are made in China but Whirlpool is made in Italy.. go figure..)
think between those two was around $2.5K, not the cheapest but certainly not the most expensive.
forget what sink was, around $500 i think.
Rangehood was fairly pricey - but we wanted a good one (quiet + moves lots of air), Qasair, highly recommended.  think all up (including all ducting) was around $1200
dishwasher: dish drawers - already had
fridge - already had. 
on top of this, there was then sparkie (elec), plumber (gas & water), builder (rangehood/ducting), painter, plasterer (we gutted the existing kitchen, replaced ceiling and floor). 
but, for the most part, cost was around $15K-$20K (depending if you include all items), and a year on, still think we have one of the most fantastic kitchens that just makes you want to spend time cooking in.

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## seriph1

great post! 
would love to see some pics of both the externals and internals

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## _kelly_

Yes, pictures pleeeeease!  :Biggrin: 
and, er, if you don't mind can you PM me the details of your stone & cabinet guy  :Wink:  
Your kitchen looks quite a bit bigger than mine & you used timber not Laminate so, again, I wonder why the heck am I getting quoted such high prices  :Rolleyes:

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## Saambo

> I got my first quote today for a new kitchen. It's considerably more that what I had budgeted for and what they knew I wanted to spend (perhaps not a smart move to go around sharing such info).  
> For $20k I am being given basic old Laminate with a flat edge (I think the curved version is ABS?)...so, basically what I already have only brand new and presumably better made (& FWIW that price does not include any kind of splashback nor, of course, appliances). 
> What exactly I get for my moola: 
> * L-shaped area measuring approx. 3 metres x 2 metres (standard bench width whatever that is <1 metre). In that L-shaped area will be 3 x 3 sets of drawers ~ 1 metre wide and a pantry (not sure of exact measurements here as they took the drawings so I couldn't pinch 'em  ) but door will be around 80cm wide and 2m high.  
> *An island bench measuring around 2 metres x 1.5 metres.  
> *20mm Caeserstone benchtops to both areas. 
> Don't know if anyone can give me any advice on whether this seems OTT? Or am I just being unreasonable? Should I shop around some more? ANy recs for Melb?

  
Having been a cabinetmaker and kitchen designer for over 20years I can say for what you are getting with 'plain laminate' you have been quoted way too much!! Caesar stone is pricey but there is no way that a kitchen with those dimensions and door finish is worth 20K. ABS edging isn't a flash extra anyway..it's 1mm or 2mm edging that provides a high impact surface for doors and drawers. It's often used in a contrasting colour to the door laminate. Don't think it adds more to a quote because it doesn't..well I don't charge more for it and it's pretty much industry standard 'basic' edging where I work. Even if the quote included overhead cabinets, electrical and plumbing I can't see it being worth 20K!! I'd be shopping around for more quotes. Some kitchen companies pay sales staff (not cabinetmakers who know how to build the things!!) hefty commissions (which you ultimately pay for) and have fancy showrooms to tempt you. I've always thought word of mouth was the best advertising. Talk with friends and colleagues about who they have used and see the end product. Sometimes a smaller cabinetmaker can provide you with a quality custom kitchen for a fraction of the cost of a name brand player because they don't have the overheads. 
Pity you didn't live in Adelaide or I'd be able to help you out for a comparative quote. 
Shop around more and pay an appropriate price. 
All the best

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## mattwilliams78

sorry to muddy the waters a little bit but I thought I'd add my 2c....and also I kinda want to show off my handiwork too  :Biggrin:  
I would certainly recommend ikea as an option (but I think you've made your decision which is cool). 
We just bought our first (read cheap) home and it had some cabinets in it that I would suggest were at least 30 years old. They were also in a poor spot effectively in the way of our only wall directly accessing the back garden from the living areas....so, the old one had to go. 
I asked myself, what was the cheapest possible way of getting ourselves a new kitchen? I looked at Bunnings, some other independents and Ikea came out ahead. I asked a few questions on the forum, got some good advice and saw some other people's projects. 
Ikea do blum soft drawers as standard (which are fantastic). They also do some innovative lazy susan/corners, pull out pantry style units, and some horizontal opening doors (i.e. swing up) etc. They do seemingly thousands of combinations of fronts and bench combinations. Most importantly they do cabinets in 200,300,400,500,600 and 800 widths which allow you to fit pretty much any dimension. They also do very tall wall cabinets (920mm) which were helpful to us as we have plenty of ceiling height (2.8m ceilings) but not much floor space - true we need steps but its noticably more storage.  
The main drawbacks to ikea are the lightweight backs (they use these bracket things which need to be mounted into a load bearing substrate; ideally masonry but in my case I put in new gyprock and so I mounted a rail across the studs at the right height to support the cuboards - touchwood they stay up  :Rolleyes: ) I also don't think the cupboards are High Moisture Resistance or Low formaldehyde which is a shame. Ikea appear to be a socially responsible company in my opinion but I could not find any information about these reasonably basic questions and perhaps silence is guilt?  
Anyway, to give you an idea of costs
Appliances $2000 including the dishwasher, oven, hob, rangehood and microwave
Cabinets, Sink and Tapware $3500
Benchtops $200
Tiles & adhesive/grout etc. $200
Plumber $400
Electrician $300 
So basically about $6500 all up. For that I got 10 cabinets for a 3.2m long wall. Disappointingly the room is not big enough for an island. If it was we would probably have got twice the benchspace for only another say $1500?  
An interesting point to add is that we too looked at stone but in my opinion I just don't think it is a DIY job. Even though I put in new gyprock I wasn't mindful enough to set the walls square so I had to adjust the laminate top to fit.  :Doh: The clincher was that the stone would have been about $2k but the laminate was a tenth of that. Even if we damage it or scratch it over the next few years it is so cheap and easy to replace yourself and give the whole thing a face lift. 
Since we have lived in here for 12months now my ideas for future renos have changed considerably. I now think it would be better to extend on the back in a few years time with a new generous kitchen/dining/living space and convert all the existing 4 rooms into bedrooms so this kitchen will be defunct. Or, maybe we'd just move on in 5 or so years anyway. 
I started the week before Christmas and finally finished this week. I couldn't really have done it any quicker and stayed sane  :Biggrin:  
Here's a photo of the before and after for you. If anyone's interested I might look out a shot from further back? 
Sorry again for hijacking your thread - I just needed to tell someone and thank people for their help.  :2thumbsup:

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## autogenous

> I got my first quote today for a new kitchen. It's considerably more that what I had budgeted for and what they knew I wanted to spend (perhaps not a smart move to go around sharing such info)

  Get 3 quotes, 3 quotes only then pick the contractor you think is best for the job.

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## mattwilliams78

sorry, just to clarify, the new kitchen is along the wall on the LHS of the before shot - freeing up the window on the backwall to become a nice patio door (french? bifold? sliding? but thats a separate post)

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## nang3

> Of course, this doesn't take into account any costs for your time and labour (and anyone else who helped for free) but your price difference sounds about right.  
> I am not about to defend many of the pathetic practices of some companies, but I would be keen to know how many hours you spent in total, researching everything, dealing with industry people and traders, sourcing the products, making whatever you needed to and then installing it all etc.  
> I am also not going to say the $40K quoted was fair or reasonable as I don't know anything about your particular job  -  but if you apply a commercial hourly rate to the whole thing, to cover all wages & commissions, insurances, machinery, general running costs and importantly, funds to cover any potential warranty claims  -  it will give a good indication as to the real savings. 
> The margins in the kitchen industry are substantial, which from one perspective makes it a very good business, giving people the opportunity to make beautiful things, and a substantial income. It does seem odd then, that the industry has so many 'characters' in it with very poor behaviours.

  yes some very good points there and probably the one main deciding factor IMO in DIY vs outsourced apart from cash outlay would be the timeframe. 
I have done all of this at a leisurely pace, its probably taken a good 12 weeks so far - 4.5 weeks of which was waiting for the stonemason to come install our top - but some people just cannot afford to not have a functional kitchen for this amount of time.. we had no oven for 2 weeks, just a microwave and electric frypan and no kitchen sink for about 10 weeks. 
We did have the dishwasher and fridge operational the entire time though otherwise we would have gone insane haha.. 
I would say hours wise the following is roughly accurate ;  planning layout/measurements etc - maybe 5 hoursdriving around looking at displays at kitchen displays - 6 hoursdemolishing/removal of old kitchen with help from 1 mate - 5 hourssourcing products - 5 hoursactual putting together/installation of carcasses/drawers etc - 25 hours
so a total of probably around 50 hours or so spread out over those first 7.5 weeks... 
all the products have full warranty from the suppliers unless damaged/fubarred by myself while installing - luckily i only damaged 1 drawer front and one door haha.. both from dropping them onto a corner while installing!!

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## president_ltd

to recap, 'design' and approx. costs are outlined in http://www.renovateforum.com/showpos...9&postcount=28 
i took some pictures today.  note that this isn't a show house by any means, its all about practicalitiies.
i.e. these pics are just in ambient light this morning, not turn-all-lights-on, do high-dynamic-range photography etc.
if you look closely, you'll note that we haven't yet got around to polishing the new floor yet. 
seriph1:
not sure what you want pic wise 'internals'?  happy to take pics but i reckon all you'll get is pics of pots, pans, plates, bowls, glasses, cups, mugs etc.  :Smilie:  
kelly:
i'll see if i can dig up details, exact name escapes me at present, think it was Cathcart kitchens or Cathcart cabinets in Morabbin.  the actual cabinet doors (Tas Blackwood) were sourced from Nikpol (http://www.nikpol.com.au/) who supplied the doors/fronts to cabinet maker, they spray varnish etc. 
granite was from european marble, also in morabbin.

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## joez

Hi All, I cant really add much to this thread, I just built my own kitchen and i got my granite from:   Daniel's Marble House Pty Ltd *Phone:* (03) 9387 9803  *Address:* 12 Victoria St Brunswick East VIC 3057   
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They came out measured, delivered and installed it for $2100.
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joez
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## _kelly_

Thanks for everyone's replies...I wish I was handy like mattwilliams because I would seriously consider Ikea...but I aint  :No:  and then there's that small issue of formeldahyde! yikes!  hope that's an urban myth matt!  thanks pres for the pics...I love your cheeky cat in pic # 9 especially, lol!  :Biggrin:  
Anyone got any feedback/thoughts on Freedom kitchens?  They seems to use all the "right" gear and I've been happy with what ive seen at their showroom/s.  I was very impressed with their designer who actually _listened_ to me and came up with a fabulous design.  I'm pretty much sold on them ...oh and they offer interest free finance so even though my budget is still shot to bits at least I can pay it off over 24 months  :Blush7:   
Thanks again for everyone's input here...it all helps a newbie like me  :Biggrin:

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## arms

...oh and they offer interest free finance so even though my budget is still shot to bits at least I can pay it off over 24 months  :Blush7:    
aahh the good old interest free finance ,as long as you pay full price ,as long as you pay in full in 24 months ,
its better to attack your costs with a " i have cash and expect a better price or a better kitchen if you want my work" mentality than be dictated to as to how you can pay

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## seriph1

....what Tom said   :Biggrin:

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## Master Splinter

> Thanks for everyone's replies...I wish I was handy like mattwilliams because I would seriously consider Ikea...but I aint  and then there's that small issue of formeldahyde! yikes! hope that's an urban myth matt! thanks pres for the pics...I love your cheeky cat in pic # 9 especially, lol!

  
The dangers of formaldehyde are very often an 'urban legend', touted by the same sort of people who have problems with immunisations, amalgam tooth fillings, and the incorrect feng shui alignment of buildings. 
Formaldehyde is produced naturally inside the body as part of the breakdown of other substances, so there are metabolic pathways for handling it - it's not some new and exotic threat to the body.   
It is a *suspected* carcinogen in large enough doses (not likely to be found outside a poorly OHAS'd industrial setting) ; but on the other hand, the chemicals formed when browning meat (heterocyclic amines) are *known* carcinogens, and people don't seem to worry about them! 
Ikea conforms to the strictest formaldehyde emission standards.  http://www.ikeafans.com/FAQMaterialsFormaldehyde.htm

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## _kelly_

hey Feng Shiu is some serious $hit mate, don't hang on it   :Wink 1:   
Actually on the "issue" of Freedom kitchens they are offering all the gear that everyone else has thus far and are slightly cheaper so why wouldn't I be interested?  I'm still $5k over my budget so being able to pay it off over 2 years is very attractive.  Only idiots wait until 3 weeks before the end of the interest free period to pay up and then wonder why they're getting stung 19.95% interest p.a  :Doh:  
FWIW I thought they were pretty transparent and unlike a supposedly well regarded kitchen maker (recommended to me by someone on this forum) didn't try to gouge me $8k for a Caesestone benchtop (worth only $3k) :Annoyed:  
Any actual thoughts on them?  Anyone seen their work? Have their kitchen done by them? Anyone  :No:

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## president_ltd

> .I love your cheeky cat in pic # 9 especially, lol!

  lol, didnt notice the cat when i took it. must have been asleep on one of the chairs & sat up.   

> Any actual thoughts on them?  Anyone seen their work? Have their kitchen done by them? Anyone

  i haven't heard anything bad about them, but by the same token haven't heard anything good about them either. 
may pay to get their terms & conditions and study them carefully. also would certainly be wise to ensure absolutely *everything* is spec'd out for them, what materials are being used, minimum thickness, warranties, finish etc., even to the point of specifying maximum variation e.g. for gaps etc. 
this way everyone is on the same page.  you get what you want, with the quality to what you expect, you still have a leg to stand on if they don't meet your requirements etc. 
if you spec this out for them & they refuse to sign up to that, then its a sign that they aren't confident on their workmanship. 
as with all things, you get what you pay for.  but like many things in the trade, there are plenty of sharks out there prepared to rip people off.
provided you have everything in writing & are happy that they will be around for the longer term (for warranty if need be), then i see no reason not to go with them.

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## seriph1

just get several sets of referral details and ask people who have used them

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## _kelly_

> just get several sets of referral details and ask people who have used them

  Will do just that.  At this point I think I have settled on them, subject to some further talks and me checking out the exact details of the contract of course. 
With the exception of my first quote everyone is coming in around-ish the same kind of figure, give or take $3k (  :Shock:  ), so I don't think I'll be doing any better by continuing to get quotes.  Everyone has said "that is not our final price" or "we can work on that"  and someone called me today and verbally slashed $3800 off their initial quote without me saying a word! Yowzas! 
Thanks to everyone for their help on this.  
I will be sure to post some pics...hoping to have my kitchen in place by August at the latest  :Biggrin:

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