# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Off topic Coffee Machines

## ringtail

> Nah it's a Sunbeam and it's actually quite decent. Decent enough to not justify the extra money and extra bench space for a Rocky...or anything else.
>   ..

  You don't know decent until you've had decent  :Biggrin:  . Rocky is sooooo 2005. The grinder is more important than the machine and this is where you spend the dollars. Of course, the machine needs upgrading too SBD as it's way too small for that kitchen  :Wink:   :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

Nothing wrong with a Sunbeam coffee grinder particularly the EMO700 unless you want to go to a commercial one. There are a bit fiddly to set up if yours is not set up correctly from factory. There is a bit of a trick to it that is lost in translation in their chinenglish manual. 
And the Sunbeam coffee machines like the EM6910 and the EM7000 are as good as a manual domestic coffee machine gets. Learn to use them and make a cup better than the shops. 
PS, love the cooking range in the table and the scale! now, I love that one.

----------


## ringtail

I'm just not going to engage in this as it will ugly  :Tongue: . I will say one thing though. For "appliances" the 7000 sunbeams are marginally better than the breville dual boiler at a cheaper price. The 6910 was an absolutely retarded piece of crap and the 7000 is vastly improved.  As far as making better coffee than the shops, well, the waste water in my machines drip tray is better than most shops.

----------


## phild01

So hey coffee snobs, doesn't the bean contribute more so than the machine?  
BTW, this is going off topic if not noticed already.

----------


## Marc

The bean is important but so is the hand and the machine. A good hand can make a bad machine do a good coffee within reason, but you can't make good coffee with bad beans. Yet the grinder is more important than the machine. 
I have both the Sunbeam 6910 and the 7000 also have the EMO700 grinder and the EMO480, besides a commercial machine and grinder.
As far as making coffee, both the 6910 and the 7000 make the same quality coffee. The 7000 is the better machine but not because it makes better coffee.
The grinders on the other side, the older 480 is more stable and less fiddly than the dearer 700. 
Both are crap compared to a commercial Rossi or similar but that is comparing apples with bananas. 
This machine would go well in SBD kitchen   
This is my other coffee machine

----------


## ringtail

How many shims in the 480 Marc ? I think I had 2 in mine. Mine now sits in my coffee room ( a luxury when one has no kids - the coffee gear gets it own room) along with my breville smart grinder. Neither of which have seen the light of day in years. Appliance type spare grinders in case my good grinders eat arock or screw, which happens now and then. Hmmm, maybe we need a coffee thread. I just fitted new burrs to both my eureka grinders. Eureka Australia wanted $200 a set. Bought them direct from Italy, 2 sets delivered for $110 AUD.  nothing too special, 60 mm flat burrs which should cost bugger all but no, the rorting of Aussie suppliers continues.

----------


## Marc

> How many shims in the 480 Marc ? I think I had 2 in mine. Mine now sits in my coffee room ( a luxury when one has no kids - the coffee gear gets it own room) along with my breville smart grinder. Neither of which have seen the light of day in years. Appliance type spare grinders in case my good grinders eat arock or screw, which happens now and then. Hmmm, maybe we need a coffee thread. I just fitted new burrs to both my eureka grinders. Eureka Australia wanted $200 a set. Bought them direct from Italy, 2 sets delivered for $110 AUD.  nothing too special, 60 mm flat burrs which should cost bugger all but no, the rorting of Aussie suppliers continues.

  The 480 and the 700 Sunbeam grinders have a way to adjust that does not need shims however even when there is an attempt to explain in the manual, most people don't know about it and simply return the grinder because it is too coarse or too fine a grind or shim the bottom burr. 
The top burr, the one that sits in a little plastic canister with a wire handle and that can be pulled out to clean, is attached to the canister via two screws. The burr is screwed on the canister in the factory and my guess is that it is positioned at random. Since the canister goes up and down via a thread that you move from the large ring on the body and since that ring is limited to half a turn or so, the range of movement is very limited. If the burr is in the wrong position in relation to the canister, it will either be too far so too coarse or too fine. The canister has different holes to reposition the burr. All it is needed is to take the burr out, mark the position before doing so and reposition either right or left depending from what you need to achieve. I had to move it 3 holes tighter to get the range of grind required by the machine.

----------


## Spottiswoode

I like muffins too. Not so much the coffee though.  :Doh:

----------


## pharmaboy2

All kitchens need a caffeine delivery system.  The one that proves you are all style and no substance is a built in unit alla. Miele.  However the post 2000's have brought the proper espresso machine to the for   
Heres my morning coffee for inspiration, gotta decide whether the espresso making facilities get pride of place in the new kitchen or hidden away in the soon to be "butlers pantry"

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I tried 
> pity the poor newbies who use _search_ on this site

  
Please remain calm.
The thread police are on their way

----------


## Marc

Hey Pharma ... what machine is that one?

----------


## OBBob

Hey look ... and off topic thread I wasn't involved in.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Hey look ... and off topic thread I wasn't involved in.

  
Me too  :Fisch:  
Now, who likes tea?    :clown:

----------


## OBBob

you can get tea pods now too ... just saying.

----------


## Marc

Are we in a different dimension? ... What year are we in?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> you can get tea pods now too ... just saying.

  
Yeah 
And coffee bags....   
Where's it all gonna end?   :Unsure:

----------


## Marc

Te :Yikes2: a  what on earth is _tea?? 
Coffee_ beans, there are no tea beans. 
Vittoria mountain grown beans  :2thumbsup:

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Hey Pharma ... what machine is that one?

  It's a Diadema junior extra, there's a macap grinder somewhere out if shot, presumably next to the artistic spread of grinds expertly placed by yours truly. 
flat whites in the morning is the only reason the missus continues to stick around 
anyway, beans should always be freshly roasted by a local who markets their product to hipster only espresso vendors who also served cold press, only have palm sugar, and refuse service of decaf

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Where's MorganGT? 
This thread should get him frothing.  _See what i did there....._

----------


## Moondog55

Esspresso, Espresso  Expresso Mehh! Plunger coffee makes for maximum caffeine extraction and isn't that why we drink the stuff?
You can buy a lot of coffee beans for the cost of an even quarter way decent machine but even the cheapest plunger makes very good coffee

----------


## Marc

Yes, there was a chap at my daughter's church with a roasting business selling some super beans at super prices. Funny how all the roasters say theirs is the best in the world ... mm ... unimpressed if you ask me.
 Vittoria MG is good stuff.
Should try one of the commercial roasters though. Got one not too far away.

----------


## Marc

Plunger ... hum ... you can make a very decent cuppa with an Italian percolator like Volturno or Bialetti. Lives the plunger for dead.  Bialetti Venus 2 CUP Stainless Steel Espresso Maker | eBay

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Plunger ... hum ... you can make a very decent cuppa with an Italian percolator like Volturno or Bialetti. Lives the plunger for dead.  Bialetti Venus 2 CUP Stainless Steel Espresso Maker | eBay

  I've been meaning to get one of them for camping   :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

I use one of these. 
Quick and easy. 
The espresso pods are good. 
If I want a fancy coffee I go to a coffee shop  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
And yes, I know what "real" "good" "proper" coffee is.
Don't have the time or energy to muck around with it at home though

----------


## Marc

Diadema Junior ?  Bananas!
2.5K for one group ... a very nice machine. Which model Macap grinder?

----------


## OBBob



----------


## phild01

Maybe this is worth a go Bob :Coffee:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> 

  
Now.....at a pinch I will do instant coffee, but I draw the line at powdered stuff   :Yuk:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Maybe this is worth a go Bob

  
oh the Coles brand will be better as it's endorsed by MKR, Status Quo and that sellout wank chef surfer wannabe guy who doesn't even Oz anymore.  
What's his name again? 
...Curtis!  
blah

----------


## OBBob

> oh the Coles brand will be better as it's endorsed by MKR, Status Quo and that sellout wank chef surfer wannabe guy who doesn't even Oz anymore.  
> What's his name again? 
> ...Curtis!  
> blah

  Hmm... until you've had the awful combined coffee/milk powder sachets they have in Asia I don't think you can really appreciate how bad coffee can get.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Yes, there was a chap at my daughter's church with a roasting business selling some super beans at super prices. Funny how all the roasters say theirs is the best in the world ... mm ... unimpressed if you ask me.
>  Vittoria MG is good stuff.
> Should try one of the commercial roasters though. Got one not too far away.

  freshness is the king for me, I buy less than 7 days old only (well ok, when I am not running out on a Saturday morning Coz we've run out) in 1kg bag, put 1/3rd in the hopper and freeze the rest (this is a no no to plenty of baristas, but blind tests have fooled the most snobbish snob).  Beans have a lovely life cycle change over the next week, and I like the changes it gives in crema character. 
grinder is a Macap 4 - pretty simple device

----------


## pharmaboy2

Anyone using a aero press ?  They seem the goods.  I also bought a mypressi and Japanese hand grinder supposedly for overnight boating and camping, but never used it more than a couple of times - more suitable to a black drinker I think

----------


## OBBob

Aero press is different to espresso but meant to be very good. If you want camping espresso I reckon the one I posted is a pretty good option.

----------


## OBBob

> If I want a fancy coffee I go to a coffee shop

  
You have to be pretty damn picky with coffee shops these days ... the coffee can be amazingly substandard - especially when paying up to $4 for a basic cup in Melbourne.

----------


## ringtail

Wow ! When did I start this thread ? I guess I better read its contents  :Tongue:

----------


## OBBob

The off-topic police set it up and appointed you as the leader.

----------


## Marc

> freshness is the king for me, I buy less than 7 days old only (well ok, when I am not running out on a Saturday morning Coz we've run out) in 1kg bag, put 1/3rd in the hopper and freeze the rest (this is a no no to plenty of baristas, but blind tests have fooled the most snobbish snob).  Beans have a lovely life cycle change over the next week, and I like the changes it gives in crema character. 
> grinder is a Macap 4 - pretty simple device

  I like my Rossi CC45A grinder very consistent and ultra fine adjustment

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Aero press is different to espresso but meant to be very good. If you want camping espresso I reckon the one I posted is a pretty good option.

  What, powder? 
rarher be dead....  At Easter, it was a mates stovetop, I refused the first day, went for a massive rude and came home with the worst headache - THATS what happens when you miss out on caffeine .......

----------


## ringtail

> It's a Diadema junior extra, there's a macap grinder somewhere out if shot, presumably next to the artistic spread of grinds expertly placed by yours truly. 
> flat whites in the morning is the only reason the missus continues to stick around 
> anyway, beans should always be freshly roasted by a local who markets their product to hipster only espresso vendors who also served cold press, only have palm sugar, and refuse service of decaf

  Nice. I thought it was either a VBM or an old expobar. I'm surprised our paths haven't crossed before Pharma. Are you on any coffee forums ?

----------


## Marc

One little known coffee maker called "Napolitana" in Italy is a very basic device, no pressure like the espresso and more useful for camping. We had one in the backpack when we went camping and everything had to be in it or hanging from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapol...lip_coffee_pot

----------


## OBBob

> What, powder? 
> rarher be dead....  At Easter, it was a mates stovetop, I refused the first day, went for a massive rude and came home with the worst headache - THATS what happens when you miss out on caffeine .......

  Oops... no the powder was a joke! There was a short discussion in another thread about the MiniPresso.

----------


## ringtail

> The off-topic police set it up and appointed you as the leader.

  Fair enough. Fair warning though, I'm king coffee nazi and don't /wont hold back. Those who "don't get it" or " think they know coffee" or have crap gear, crap ideas on what is right - prepare to be offended   :Biggrin:  .

----------


## pharmaboy2

> I like my Rossi CC45A grinder very consistent and ultra fine adjustment

  Yes, mate of mine bought a quaha I think it was called with a new HX machine.  He took it home, couldn't get it to make anything like a decent cup so called me up - the grinder had an espresso grind where 11 was spot on, 10.7 was like a long black and 11.5 was totally choked.  That's what you get with the $700 and up - made more for espresso with lots of fine adjustment, now he's setup he thinks it's great but I should have recomended the compak - oh well

----------


## OBBob

Ha ha... well there's a lot to know about coffee. Like I said above, the popularity seems to have diluted the quality. I can do better with me funny little hand machine than many coffee shops.

----------


## Marc

My Carimali and Rossi grinder were a deal I got for a tenth of the new price. Bought by the university of NSW for the teachers, sat unused in the room for a few years since no one was game to use it. When I got it I had to buy a new pump since the original seized for lack of use, also one of the switches was faulty, but everything else was spot on including the groups that should have been blocked but worked spot on. Even the seals were good but I changed them to be on the safe side. I say I change them but I did not, I got a technician to do the lot.

----------


## ringtail

Is your machine a " bubble" Marc ? That's gotta be the worst name in history for a machine, surely  :Tongue:

----------


## Marc

> Ha ha... well there's a lot to know about coffee. Like I said above, the popularity seems to have diluted the quality. I can do better with me funny little hand machine than many coffee shops.

   I work in a suburb/town that has well over 15 coffee shops in the little CBD and new ones popping up whilst others shutting down or changing owner all the time. 
I make coffee for our team of 15 every day as an escape to the daily grind, yet I also try the occasional cup outside. 
My main complain about the cup in the shops is the inconsistency. The same shop serves a great cup and a rubbish one, no discrimination from one day to the next. It is like the barista does not know what is that produces good or bad quality and gets it by pot luck. The worst are the one that serve a boiling hot coffee by overdoing the steaming of the milk and you can hear it, the steam howling in the milk jug. Oh well ... some are more consistent. One of them is a Campos shop and sells the campos beans at $50 a kilo. But even there you can get a good and a bad cup on the same tray.

----------


## ringtail

Mmmmm, naked. Droool

----------


## OBBob

Yes,  agree with that.

----------


## ringtail

> I make coffee for our team of 15 every day

  15 dentists ! No wonder you have 20 houses  :Biggrin:

----------


## OBBob

Lol

----------


## Marc

Carimali / bubble ? dont see the connection. It's an Italian name like most commercial machines

----------


## ringtail

Mmmmm, breakfast

----------


## ringtail

> Carimali / bubble ? dont see the connection. It's an Italian name like most commercial machines

   Bubble | Carimali Australia - Coffee Machines and Accessories

----------


## pharmaboy2

Definately need to go naked, would be able to fit a triple in then instead of the usual double 
how long does that MOFO take to get warm Marc? Mines at its best about an hour, though reality is usually 35min because I'm too dumb to find a timer and set it. 
shot inconsistency - talking to cafe owner about the difference between him and his missus - hers were often under extracted but they can't figure it out - it's probably in the evenness and shininess of the tamp - about the only thing that I can think of that isn't obvious 
i still make the occasional bad one the wife won't drink, and I can't figure out what's different

----------


## OBBob

It's more than that... I reckon it's a dropping percentage that employ what we'd call barristers these days. Even McDonalds reckon that have barristers.

----------


## Marc

Oh I see ... funny name right ... no mine is a Cento Product â€¢ Cento
From stone cold to steaming it's 10 minutes. 20 Amps powerpoint though, 4mm cables to the switchboard. Plumbed with two water filters and of course it's own drain.

----------


## MorganGT

> Where's MorganGT? 
> This thread should get him frothing.  _See what i did there....._

  So we're putting up pics of coffee machines now?

----------


## OBBob

Nice forklift.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Mmmmm, breakfast

  
Shouldn't you be down the barbers getting your hipster beard and topknot groomed?

----------


## ringtail

> Shouldn't you be down the barbers getting your hipster beard and topknot groomed?

  
Bwahahaha. No. I do try and run them over when they ride their stoopid push bikes though  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Nice graveyard there Morgan  :Rolleyes:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> stoopid push bikes

  
Fixies

----------


## Marc

> Definately need to go naked, would be able to fit a triple in then instead of the usual double 
> how long does that MOFO take to get warm Marc? Mines at its best about an hour, though reality is usually 35min because I'm too dumb to find a timer and set it. 
> shot inconsistency - talking to cafe owner about the difference between him and his missus - hers were often under extracted but they can't figure it out - it's probably in the evenness and shininess of the tamp - about the only thing that I can think of that isn't obvious 
> i still make the occasional bad one the wife won't drink, and I can't figure out what's different

   Happens to me too, variations and you don't know why. But I don't have a shop and don't make 300 coffee a day. If I did I would probably pull a consistent cup most of the time. 
There are horrible variations in the milk too. I find the full cream from aldi hard to make it froth properly. Why? Who knows. And the steam wands on the carimali hve 4 holes and froths anything including almond milk almost instantly.

----------


## MorganGT

> Nice forklift.

  My boss liked it so much when he bought it secondhand to replace our older one that he stripped it down and repainted it - then the very next day somebody crashed it into the racking and put a huge gouge in the new paint. 
As far as my own machines go, I've got a commercial 1 group Saeco Aroma and a Breville Smart Grinder (only because I haven't found the time to fix up the 4 Santos 55 grinders I have sitting in the hallway). Plus a 1 group Rancilio S10, a 1 group La Faimac Evoluzione and 3 ECM Raffaello 2 groups all sitting waiting for a rebuild.

----------


## MorganGT

> Nice graveyard there Morgan

  Most of those machine have been scrapped by now - that photo was from 2010. Not many of the would have been worth anything by now, other than the La Marzoccos and some of the vintage lever machines right down the back of the factory.

----------


## phild01

> I find the full cream from aldi hard to make it froth properly. Why? Who knows.

  I remember as a kid that fresh milk made the worst milkshakes, the milk needed to be a few days old.

----------


## ringtail

> Most of those machine have been scrapped by now - that photo was from 2010. Not many of the would have been worth anything by now, other than the La Marzoccos and some of the vintage lever machines right down the back of the factory.

  Vintage levers eh. hmmmmmm. What's there and how much for all of them ?  :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

If someone asks me at work I say ... well ... depends from what the cow had to eat ha ha. I think they believe me.

----------


## Marc

I woulnd't mind one La Marzocco lever to play around

----------


## PlatypusGardens

What exactly do you do....Morgan?   :Unsure:

----------


## ringtail

My current set. Bezzera Mitica E61 and Eureka Zenith. I have the gear to convert the Mitica into a strega lever. Identical machines apart from the groups. One day.

----------


## OBBob

> What exactly do you do....Morgan?

  He fixes coffee machines... but obviously not quickly enough because half the ones in that picture got scrapped!  :eek:

----------


## MorganGT

> What exactly do you do....Morgan?

   I install, repair and service commercial coffee machines, grinders and other associated hipster nonsense, which involves a lot of swearing, burns, skinned knuckles and lots of driving (today was Geelong and Port Campbell, yesterday Foster and Mornington, tomorrow Ararat, Ballarat and Miners Rest, and just before Easter was an install in Merton near Bonnie Doon, then up and over Mt Hotham to service a machine in Swifts Creek).

----------


## ringtail

So none of you guys roast ? That's disappointing.

----------


## OBBob

> I install, repair and service commercial coffee machines, grinders and other associated hipster nonsense, which involves a lot of swearing, burns, skinned knuckles and lots of driving (today was Geelong and Port Campbell, yesterday Foster and Mornington, tomorrow Ararat, Ballarat and Miners Rest, and just before Easter was an install in Merton near Bonnie Doon, then up and over Mt Hotham to service a machine in Swifts Creek).

  Gee,  I took it from that picture (which you've posted before) that the machines came to you. That's a bit of trekking around!

----------


## MorganGT

> He fixes coffee machines... but obviously not quickly enough because half the ones in that picture got scrapped!  :eek:

  Give me a week and I could probably rebuild everything you see in that pic - but I'm mostly on the road, and the guys that spend most of their time in the workshop work way too slow - on Monday they only managed to rebuild one grinder between the two of them, which should normally take one technician one hour for a full strip and rebuild (hence the high level of swearing when I arrive every morning a good 1 1/2 hrs before everyone else and see what urgent jobs haven't been done the day before).

----------


## MorganGT

> Gee,  I took it from that picture (which you've posted before) that the machines came to you. That's a bit of trekking around!

  Some of the machines are brought to us, but most of the work is on the road. The stuff in the workshop is usually either in storage for the various roasters we work for, or is traded-in equipment for rebuild and sale.
My current van has just reached 2 years old, and now has 120,000kms on it - most of the work is around Melbourne, but I get sent on most of the country runs, which are often 4-500kms, and up to 1100kms in a day.

----------


## ringtail

Do any super autos Morgan ?

----------


## lukemc

Thought I'd throw up a pic of my coffee setup. Only because I've finally got something to add after ages of just reading and learning!!     
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## MorganGT

> Do any super autos Morgan ?

  Only if I can't possibly avoid it. Domestic ones often end up costing more to repair than they are worth, so we stopped doing them since most were quoted and then scrapped by the customer.
Commercial ones usually end up needing parts specific to only that model, and parts and user manuals for programming them are almost impossible to pry out of the hands of the local distributors in most cases.

----------


## Marc

Yep, we have one super automatic boat anchor at work. The workers in the floor below used it until it stopped from lack of cleaning and then it sat there. 2 years later I tried to revive it but it was dead and no parts.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Nice. I thought it was either a VBM or an old expobar. I'm surprised our paths haven't crossed before Pharma. Are you on any coffee forums ?

  Yeah, on coffee snobs, but only occasionally - first machine was a mokita  combi, bought for 750, sold 5 years later for $400 after a bidding war lol.     
Best thing I ever bought this Diadema - most popular recommendation on coffee snobs at the time - I'm sure they have some other darling these days, probably dual boilers

----------


## pharmaboy2

> My current set. Bezzera Mitica E61 and Eureka Zenith. I have the gear to convert the Mitica into a strega lever. Identical machines apart from the groups. One day.

  Haha, see Luke s post above.... 
great looking  SS setup though - neat and tidy, best show a neat and tidy example of mine (ie the day after the cleaner has been in)

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Yep, we have one super automatic boat anchor at work. The workers in the floor below used it until it stopped from lack of cleaning and then it sat there. 2 years later I tried to revive it but it was dead and no parts.

  
Is this at your dental clinic?   :Unsure:

----------


## ringtail

> Yeah, on coffee snobs, but only occasionally - first machine was a mokita  combi, bought for 750, sold 5 years later for $400 after a bidding war lol.     
> Best thing I ever bought this Diadema - most popular recommendation on coffee snobs at the time - I'm sure they have some other darling these days, probably dual boilers

  I and a whole swag of other have been banned from CS mostly by association. The bearded one didn't like like how we play.
we all moved to another forum Crema then on to Coffee Nation. I'm really good mates with all the Brisbane coffee people on those forums.   
Oh, yep, super autos for the bin. POS things.

----------


## ringtail

> Is this at your dental clinic?

  Multi storey dental clinic by the sounds of it PG.  :Wink:

----------


## pharmaboy2

Ok, one more. 
i travel a bit - best thing ever for that - Beanhunter! 
especially because top knots are so hard to spot from a distance, and fixies  are hidden out the back...  :Wink: . Though hipsters at night can usually be followed to find craft beer bars as well

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I and a whole swag of other have been banned from CS mostly by association. The bearded one didn't like like how we play.
> we all moved to another forum Crema then on to Coffee Nation. I'm really good mates with all the Brisbane coffee people on those forums.

  Banned from a coffee forum?  :Unsure:  
that's hilarious.  :Rofl5:    
Picturing it now....frantically typing angry posts as you knock back coffee after coffee getting more and more revved up.           :Rofl:

----------


## OBBob

Lol

----------


## OBBob

> Thought I'd throw up a pic of my coffee setup. Only because I've finally got something to add after ages of just reading and learning!!     
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Nice.

----------


## ringtail

> Banned from a coffee forum?  
> that's hilarious.    
> Picturing it now....frantically typing angry posts as you knock back coffee after coffee getting more and more revved up.

  Upset the wrong people there and you're banned foe life. There was talk of them reading private messages and other stuff. Dirty place. Of course all the banned people are still on the forum to boost member numbers.

----------


## ringtail

> Nice.

  Cool. I can turn mine into that anytime. I used to make a lot of custom lever handles for stregas. Custom knobs for steam and water taps too.

----------


## Marc

> Is this at your dental clinic?

  Ha ha, the dentist thing seems to stick. 
Talking about dentist, a friend of mine who was born in Spain, went back for holidays and for some dental work and told me that in Spain there is such poverty that dentist are limited to doing minor work and never get to do anything more than a crown, bridges and implants are a thing of the past ... sad really. 
Ok just to stay on topic, coffee stains on your teeth, how to remove them ...  :Rofl5:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Ha ha, the dentist thing seems to stick.

  Well you're not telling us what it is you actually do, so....   :Wink:

----------


## OBBob

> Well you're not telling us what it is you actually do, so....

  He makes coffee for a team of 15... One cup in the morning and one after lunch - day done.   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> great looking  SS setup though - neat and tidy, best show a neat and tidy example of mine (ie the day after the cleaner has been in)

  Oh, you are by no means alone with the mess. I'll put up a picture later that is pretty rank. Didn't clean up for 2 weeks apart from emptying the knock box.

----------


## OBBob

Meh... no somethings are better left undisclosed.   
Back on the off topic... don't you need high altitude to grow coffee Ringtail?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Are you having fun?
> You are talking about me right?
> Rather distasteful, don't remember ever talking about you guys in such manner.

  
No harm intended.....   :Unsure:  
Meh let's move on then

----------


## ringtail

> Meh... no somethings are better left undisclosed.   
> Back on the off topic... don't you need high altitude to grow coffee Ringtail?

  Nope. Grows quite happily at sea level. Heat and humidity are what's needed. Heaps of coffee grown around Byron and we are heaps higher than them yet still sub tropical. Our property ranges from 380 -490 mt above SL. Overseas farms , Africa in particular are a lot higher at 1200+ . It does have an input into the bean's characteristics as does soil type but it's certainly not a prerequisite to grow. Probably the biggest difference is how long the coffee cherries take to ripen here. A long time which reduces the caffine level a touch.

----------


## PhilT2

Get a few moggies on the farm and produce that really expensive stuff The most expensive coffee in the world – All details about Kopi Luwak.

----------


## ringtail

Anyone who knows anything about coffee won't touch it or promote it and wants to throw those that do into a deep pit of death. Without doubt as bad as caged hens or any other form of animal cruelty.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Back on the off topic... don't you need high altitude to grow coffee Ringtail?

  Well he's got plenty of that.....  :Unsure:  
...oh...it says altitude....thought it said attitude   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Get a few moggies on the farm and produce that really expensive stuff The most expensive coffee in the world – All details about Kopi Luwak.

  
Has anyone actually tried that stuff....? 
Animal cruelty aside, is it any good?

----------


## PhilT2

Apparently people will pay $100 a cup for it. Not making any comparisons between the tastes of some coffee drinkers and what comes out of the rear end of a cat but if the shoe fits....

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Apparently people will pay $100 a cup for it. 
> .

  
Yes but is that just because it's "unusual" or is it actually good....?

----------


## toooldforthis

just thought I'd pop in here - jeez, you guys are still on topic ... amazing.

----------


## ringtail

> Well he's got plenty of that.....  
> ...oh...it says altitude....thought it said attitude

  One needs that too to deal with the haters PG  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> Yes but is that just because it's "unusual" or is it actually good....?

  It's @@@@@. It tastes like coffee dipped in @@@@@. No, I've never had it but I do know people that have. As taste is such a subjective thing it's pretty impossible say what it's like other than "still better than instant ". The issue is the caging and force feeding of the civets to produce this crap ( pun intended). Like tiger penis or rhino horn it's yet another example of how one frikked up culture is capable of displaying a total lack of humanity.

----------


## pharmaboy2

A mate of mine had some in Indonesia, fwiw, didn't rate it at all as a decent coffee, but at least he said he's tried it ( was about 8usd a coffee )

----------


## ringtail

Pretty much the same feedback I've had too.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

So it's more a gimmick then, at the expense of some poor animal. 
Surprised they can't replicate the process "chemically"....like in a factory...
Surely that would be possible   :Unsure:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> one needs that too to deal with the haters pg :d

                                    :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Yep it's just another gimmick to sucker the noob. As far as replicating goes, why ? Like people who add flavour syrup to coffee. I tell them to go and get milkshake. It's coffee, it's meant to taste like coffee. If you don't like the taste of coffee then bugger off and buy another beverage that tastes the way you want it to taste. But don't be ordering a vanilla latte in front of me  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> As far as replicating goes, why ?

  Why not? 
Slap a picture of the critter on the pack, tell everyone it's "Loopy QuackQuack" or whatever it's called, still charge the same, no animals harmed in the process, win-win   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Come on ringtail, no comments on the pics I sourced especially for you?   :Sad2:

----------


## PhilT2

> But don't be ordering a vanilla latte in front of me

  Wow! And you're the guy who complains about the govt telling people what they can and can't do.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Wow! And you're the guy who complains about the govt telling people what they can and can't do.

    :Stirthepot:         :Tiptoe:

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Yep it's just another gimmick to sucker the noob. As far as replicating goes, why ? Like people who add flavour syrup to coffee. I tell them to go and get milkshake. It's coffee, it's meant to taste like coffee. If you don't like the taste of coffee then bugger off and buy another beverage that tastes the way you want it to taste. But don't be ordering a vanilla latte in front of me

  I sorta agree, but the extension of the same logic goes to people who have sugar in their coffee.....  Which is especially troublesome given the Italians invented espresso and nearly universally have sugar in their said espresso. 
now soy decaf - that should be punishable by death 
and now one for Marc - ok, ran out of beans on the weekend, emergency Saturday night procurement required and went the Vittoria organic mountain stuff.  I have to say, all of my preconceptions were spot on.  Overly dark roasted beans, makes for a strong tasting pour but very one dimensional - just because I hate wasting $30, I'm going to try and blend it with some of my tried and true local medium roasted blends.  Oh and it was the freshest in the supermarket, but it's clearly a long way past fresh.    
You wont know yourself with a nice fresh roasted bag - frothy crema, way less oil, and heaps more mid palate and sugars.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Meh, I don't think it's anyone's business what people eat and drink. (Of course I don't agree with Qwakawoot coffee and ...erm...tiger penis)   :Shrug:   
I'll never undrstand the appeal of Neil and Tim Finn and their depressing music, at the same level as I don't see the point in a latte, but if people like it, good for them.   :Sneaktongue:            
I like my coffe like my women.......strong and filthy   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> Wow! And you're the guy who complains about the govt telling people what they can and can't do.

  
Yep, but this is coffee Phil. Much bigger than the government  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> I sorta agree, but the extension of the same logic goes to people who have sugar in their coffee.....  Which is especially troublesome given the Italians invented espresso and nearly universally have sugar in their said espresso. 
> now soy decaf - that should be punishable by death 
> and now one for Marc - ok, ran out of beans on the weekend, emergency Saturday night procurement required and went the Vittoria organic mountain stuff.  I have to say, all of my preconceptions were spot on.  Overly dark roasted beans, makes for a strong tasting pour but very one dimensional - just because I hate wasting $30, I'm going to try and blend it with some of my tried and true local medium roasted blends.  Oh and it was the freshest in the supermarket, but it's clearly a long way past fresh.    
> You wont know yourself with a nice fresh roasted bag - frothy crema, way less oil, and heaps more mid palate and sugars.

  We all know the Italians are idiots. And the yanks are just as bad. They crucify their beans so they look like oily bitumen. And sugar in coffee should just be banned. If you want beans I'm happy to post.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

:Rofl5:  ringtail is on FIRE!  
love a good rant

----------


## ringtail

> Meh, I don't think it's anyone's business what people eat and drink. (Of course I don't agree with Qwakawoot coffee and ...erm...tiger penis)            
> I like my coffe like my women.......strong and filthy

  
you should try 3 eye turkish then PG. You can stand a tiger penis, or spoon up in that mud

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> you should try 3 eye turkish then PG. You can stand a tiger penis, or spoon up in that mud

  
Sounds tantalising

----------


## OBBob

> you should try 3 eye turkish then PG. You can stand a tiger penis, or spoon up in that mud

  Amazing what it takes to keep an off topic topic on the off topic

----------


## pharmaboy2

> We all know the Italians are idiots. And the yanks are just as bad. They crucify their beans so they look like oily bitumen. And sugar in coffee should just be banned. If you want beans I'm happy to post.

  Yes I'll take the beans anyway.  I'll still have my sugar with my double ristretto though, when fully hipster it'll be palm sugar. 
mind you, I won't have sugar in my beer, malt fermentables only

----------


## ringtail

> Sounds tantalising

  
I'm not a fan but some love the gloop

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I'm not a fan but some love the gloop

  
I've actually had coffee that way many times (not THAT thick though)
It's ok as long as you don't drink the last bit   :Wink:

----------


## ringtail

Use the last bit as mortar

----------


## Black Cat

I refuse to use pods - how can you mix your own blend if they come pre-packaged (not to mention the environmental impact of all that plastic!)? The milk you use can also impact flavour. I prefer the unhomogenised milk with a blob of cream in the jug to increase the silken texture of the drink. 
Budget insists on a Sunbeam for me, but I do fantasize about getting one of those fancy two-cups at a time jobs.  
And country living does limit your options for out-of-the-house good coffee, so I will stick to making my own.

----------


## ringtail

Two group machines are totally unnecessary for home use unless you throw a lot of parties. A good quality single group E61 Italian machine and a good commercial grinder are all that's needed. Apart from freshly roasted beans. New around $5k will give you something decent but secondhand is the way to go. So many people suffer from upgraditis there are lots of bargains around. $2.5k would find you with a good package.

----------


## Marc

Ha ha, there are a lot of things that are "totally unnecessary", including but not limited to Lamborghini, Range Rovers, really loud Air boats with a V8 Cadillac engine, Cessna Caravan, waterfront properties, farm in southern France, Bell vintage helicopter, Sea Ray 600 Sundancer etc.  
Black cat, I say that if you like a two group commercial machine, find one second hand from your local roaster and befriend the service guy that fixes the local coffee shop machines to give you some advise on one. Life is short and the "totally unnecessary" things, make it worth while. 
Start by talking to MorganGT he does that for a living.

----------


## ringtail

Totally true Marc. However, the power and plumbing requirements of two groups generally make them unfeasible for domestic use. Guys do drop a leg off the elements to run on 15 amp circuits but there are other considerations too. Bench space for one can be a massive issue. Heaps of guys are running their set up in the laundry due to lack of room in the kitchen. Coffee takes priority in our kitchen. I reckon with all the crap the set up takes about 700 mm of bench  :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

Yes, yet there are always ways. Most 2 group + grinder would take up about 1 to 1.2m of bench. A 20 or 25amp PP is not really an issue and drain and water requirements are no different from a dishwasher after you add a good filter. Sure, having your coffee machine in the laundry seems a bit extreme. It would be way more practical to sell and move to a place with a bigger kitchen ... 
Price for second hand units can be from surprisingly low to nothing. The cost is in getting it up to spec.
I have yet to figure out how to fit a Maserati in my garage.  :Rofl5:

----------


## woodbe

lol. We've been through this lark. After spending our kid's inheritance on the machine and then running the thing (have you noticed how it draws power all day?) the final lap was the outrageous repair episodes. We're totally over these things. 
And you know what? We bought an Aeropress for camping trips, it makes great coffee! It replaced that oversized, overpriced, overconsuming, chrome piece of junk.

----------


## OBBob

Lol!

----------


## PlatypusGardens

I can hear ringtail steaming up from here.....    :Rofl5:

----------


## OBBob

I know... gotta admire his passion (even if he is wrong)   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

:Shock:  
you're a brave man, Bob    :Stirthepot:

----------


## Marc

Funny how on matters of likes and dislikes, everyone is a critic and also everyone thinks it has the truth by the short and curly and is back from whatever the "other" are coming from. 
The reality is that what is fun and best for one does not apply to others and some like coffee and others like tea and others more, like Coke zero. 
My first car was a Buick 1928 convertible. A pile of junk some told me. A beautiful vintage car I thought. 
Today I fancy a 1930 Cord L-29, the equivalent of a Marzocco coffee machine, others prefer a Toyota Corolla, the equivalent to a Breville pod machine. 
We can all coexist with what are very fortunately, different taste, without putting down neither the Marzocco nor the Breville.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Most people say  

> pile of junk

  about stuff I think is  

> beautiful

   :Rofl5:

----------


## Marc

Yep ... La Marzocco is still made by hand in Florence, my dad's home town. http://lamarzocco.com.au/wp-content/...-pricelist.pdf

----------


## OBBob

... and that's why it's so easy to stir people up on the internet.  However, if everyone liked the same things life would be pretty boring.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> ... and that's why it's so easy to stir people up on the internet.  However, if everyone liked the same things life would be pretty boring.

  Yep. 
I make my coffee using our fancy Sunbeam coffee appliance by blasting home ground locally roasted beans into a bog standard budget mug till about a third to half full then back filling with milk from the fridge...reheat in the microwave for 40 seconds and my caffeine delivery system is good to go. Still better than virtually any cafe I've ever been to in Sydney or Melbourne... or in my local town.

----------


## woodbe

There is a reason antiques are polished to look like new, but get very little use. 
There should be an Antique showroom for coffee machines. Each should have a ledger beside them of the purchase, repair, and running costs.

----------


## ringtail

> I know... gotta admire his passion (even if he is wrong)

  I'm never wrong, you should know that by now. Oh, what am I meant to be wrong about now ?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I'm never wrong

  
That can't be right.....

----------


## ringtail

> lol. We've been through this lark. After spending our kid's inheritance on the machine and then running the thing (have you noticed how it draws power all day?) the final lap was the outrageous repair episodes. We're totally over these things. 
> And you know what? We bought an Aeropress for camping trips, it makes great coffee! It replaced that oversized, overpriced, overconsuming, chrome piece of junk.

  Aeropress, pfffft.  :Tongue:  . Honestly I don't care. As long as it's not instant, supermarket beans, preground  or pods  :Biggrin:  Machine repairs are easy. I fix all my own with ease as they are very simple machines. I'm good mates with the best repair guy in the country so anything electronic that needs modding or repairing I hive to him.

----------


## ringtail

> That can't be right.....

  It's not a lie if one believes it's true  :Biggrin:  
credit George Costanza

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Honestly I don't care. As long as it's not instant, supermarket beans, preground  or pods

  
pads, not pods   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Or pads. A new enemy  :Tongue:

----------


## woodbe

Some people just like to buy shiny objects to polish their ego. Like people who like to park their shiny Ferrari outside the coffee shop  :Tongue:  Coffee is made from a plant, not a machine. The more it is tinkered with, the worse it gets.   

> Aeropress, pfffft.  .

  The AEROPRESS is an entirely new way to make  coffee. Water and grounds are mixed together for ten seconds. Then  gentle air pressure pushes the mix through a micro-filter in 20 seconds.  The total brewing time of only 30 seconds results in exceptionally  smooth flavor. Tasters ranging from professional cuppers and author  Kenneth Davids, to coffee aficionados all praise the smooth, rich  flavor.  *Some praises of AEROPRESS:* 
"It makes the absolute best cup of coffee I've tasted in my entire life." 
Lewis Singer - Cooks Junction 
"When  used properly, AeroPress produces a remarkably good straight espresso  and an excellent Americano-style taller cup. In fact, it produces a  better espresso shot than many home machines that cost twenty or thirty  times as much." Kenneth Davids  Author of:
Coffee: A Guide to Buying Brewing and Enjoying
Espresso: Ultimate Coffee
Coffee Roasting: Romance and Revival
editor of coffeereview.com 
"Thank  you for leaving us an Aeropress. I'm sipping a delicious Americano as I  go through my emails -- you have saved me from servitude to the office  brew cup and I will be forever grateful! The funny thing is, I made it  with the same pre-ground coffee the drip stuff is made of (just to do a  more direct comparison) and, well, there is no comparison--one has  flavor, the other has bitterness." 
Molly Watson - Sunset Magazine 
"I didn't know the same coffee could taste so good." 
Peter Whitely - Sunset Magazine  
"This is the first cup of coffee I've ever enjoyed without cream and sugar." 
Margie Gray  Professional Engineer and coffee lover 
"Thus,  the result with hardly any tinkering:  Two very, very good mugs of  coffee.  I was able to taste qualities that I had mainly read about  before, particularly on the floral, fruity, and sweet end of the  spectrum.  You've obviously made a fine discovery." 
Jeffrey Steingarten - Vogue Food Editor        
You  must try it to understand why this device is the only coffee maker I  will ever own again.  Making an AeroPress coffee takes only 30 seconds  (start to finish) and best of all, only takes a few seconds to clean!   The only negative aspect about the AeroPress is that I cannot drink the  burnt espresso anymore at our favorite bakery.
Ellen Jorgenson - Seattle 
A  couple of years ago I bought a $1500 espresso machine.  It works well -  but it doesn't turn out the consistent quality of the AeroPress.  Now I  use the AeroPress for ALL brewing and only use my expensive Italian  machine for heating the AeroPress water and for foaming  milk for my  cappuccino.
Tom Osborne - Stewarts Point , CA 
It's hard to  believe that something so simple can give me a cup of coffee that's as  good as what I get at my local coffee shop using equipment many times  the Aeropress's price. I love being able to experiment with different  amounts and types of coffee to get everything from a rich espresso to  the traditional cup of American coffee.
Greg Silveria - Burlingame, CA  
I  have this coffee maker at work along with a simple blade grinder and  use the press at least once a day.  My friend in the next office has a  traditional French press, and we've done a number of side by side  comparisons, varying water temperature, brew time, bean variety, etc.  The Aeropress coffee is consistently less bitter, with a much more  robust flavor, than the French press.
Eric Prather - Santa Clara, CA 
We've  been using our AeroPress daily for two months now and love it.  It's  light weight, durable, easy and quick to use and clean and makes an  excellent caffe leche.  We've tried French press coffee, but the  AeroPress delivers the flavor without bitterness or sediment.  It  simplifies and improves on traditional methods; an elegant solution,  indeed.
Tim & Carolyn Biglow - Los Altos, CA 
"It is fabulous; thanks for telling me about it. I think it makes espresso as good as $1000 restaurant machines and it is fun!"
Bryon Furey - Philadelphia, PA  
"Hi,  I just wanted to congratulate you on the new AeroPress. I bought one  from Locals Only Coffee, and have used it several times. The simplicity  of the design, use, and cleaning are impressive, as is the quality of  the coffee."
Michael Davis - Seattle, WA 
"Let me tell you I'm  hooked. This makes an outstanding Americano. I'm the only coffee drinker  in my house and making a pot of coffee often just goes to waste. The  AeroPress makes just the right amount - nothing wasted. Good luck with  the product; it is fantastic!"
Todd Hembry - Seattle, WA 
"I  don't know who the genius is over there, but I've only used it twice  and, it's terrific. I definitely agree with your philosophy of brewing  temp (which diverges from coffee "orthodoxy.") I'm amazed at how good  this product is, and I wish you all the luck with it."
Darryl Rehr - Los Angeles, CA 
At the time of this writing, all eight AeroPress reviews at www.localsonlycoffee.com awarded AeroPress the maximum possible rating of five stars.         *There are several reasons why AeroPress coffee tastes so good:*    Total immersion of the grounds in the water results in rapid yet robust extraction of flavor. Total immersion permits extraction at a moderate temperature, resulting in a smoother brew. Air pressure shortens filtering time to 20 seconds. This avoids the bitterness of long 
processes such as drip brewing. The air pressure also gently squeezes the last goodness from the grounds, further enriching the flavor. Because  of the lower temperature and short brew time, the acid level of the  brew is much lower than conventional brewers. Laboratory pH testing  measured AEROPRESS brew's acid as less than one fifth that of regular  drip brew. The low acid is confirmed by coffee lovers who report that  AEROPRESS brew is 
friendlier to their stomachs.          *Comparison with other brewing methods:*  *Drip Brewing.* 
Drip  brewing passes water through a bed of grounds. When the water first  drips into the bed, it is too hot and bitterness is extracted. As the  water filters downward through the bed, it becomes too cool and  extraction is weak. The water doesn't contact all of the grounds  uniformly. Grounds at the edge of the bed are under-extracted while  grounds at the center are over- extracted and contribute bitterness.   
Total  immersion of the grounds in the AEROPRESS completely solves these  problems.  All of the grounds contact the same water temperature, and  the brewing process is short and sweet. The gentle air pressure of the  AEROPRESS also extracts extra flavor from the coffee. Ordinary drip  brewers leave a lot of flavor in their soggy grounds. 
The drip  method cannot make a robust single cup because the small amount of water  doesn't heat the bed enough for rich extraction. It is also slow.  AEROPRESS makes one to four servings with a single pressing in less than  a minute. The flavor is equally rich for any number of cups. 
The lengthy wet time of drip brewing also extracts bitterness from the grounds. 
In  their 2005 edition of America's Test Kitchen Live, the editors of  Cook's Illustrated Magazine wrote: "Drip coffee machines make coffee  easily, but rarely well - often producing a burnt and bitter liquid  reminiscent of stale truck stop coffee". 
Finally, drip brewers cannot make espresso or lattes.  *Espresso Machines.* 
Most  coffee lovers agree that espresso is less bitter than drip brew because  of the shorter brewing time. However when we ran comparison taste-tests  in the homes of espresso lovers, they all agreed that AEROPRESS  espresso tasted better than the brew from their high-priced European  espresso machines -- why? The reason is that the total immersion brewing  of the AEROPRESS yields a robust flavor at lower temperature -- and  lower temperature brew is far less bitter. Home espresso machines dont  allow adjustment of temperature. But even if they did, their lack of  total immersion would not yield robust flavor at reduced temperature.   
In addition to smoother taste, the AEROPRESS has several other advantages over conventional espresso machines. 
Grind  is not critical in the AEROPRESS. Grind is so critical in espresso  machines that most grinders cannot produce a grind fine enough to make a  good tasting shot!  Special espresso grinders cost hundreds of dollars  and require frequent cleaning.   
Espresso experts always adjust  the grind when there are changes in humidity or batches of coffee. They  throw away two or three shots while adjusting the grind to achieve the  desired 25-second shot. 
There is no tamping in the AEROPRESS.  Books on espresso teach the art of just the right amount of tamping.  They instruct the home barista to practice on the bathroom scale to  learn exactly thirty pounds of pressure.   
There is no pre-warming of the portafilter head. In fact the AEROPRESS has no portafilter head! 
There  is no maintenance. Espresso machines require regular cleaning and  descaling with caustic chemicals. They also require disassembly and  cleaning of the showerhead. 
There is no need to judge when to  stop the pull. This is the most critical skill in using an espresso  machine. As espresso lovers well know, most would-be baristas in coffee  shops, hotels and restaurants run the pump too long -- extracting sour  bitterness from the grounds. 
With the AeroPress, the amount of  water is predetermined by the user, who can brew any strength from weak  to super-intense just by choosing the desired amount of water prior to  pressing.  *Pod Brewers.* 
Many single-cup  pod brewers have come to market recently. Some of these machines make  American coffee. Others make espresso. They range in price from about  $60 to several hundred dollars. The December 2004 issue of Consumer  Reports Magazine tested the three most popular pod brewers and reported  the flavor as "mediocre at best".   
There are also many negative  reviews on internet discussion groups. For example two reviews of  American-cup pod brewers at coffeeforums.com: 
"I tried everything I could to like the taste of the coffee, but I couldn't". 
"I'm still not liking my own coffee made in this machine. So far it tastes awful".  *French Presses.* 
People  see some similarities between the AEROPRESS and a French Press. Both  use total immersion and pressure. But the similarities end there.   
The  filter in the French Press is at the top of the mixture. Because coffee  floats, the floating grounds clog the filter and makes pressing and  cleaning very difficult. Users are instructed to use only coarse ground  coffee. But this reduces the amount of flavor that can be extracted from  the coffee and necessitates long steeping times which extract  bitterness. 
Furthermore, even coarse ground coffee includes many  fine particles. These small particles pass through and around the filter  resulting in a bitter, gritty brew. The particles in the brew continue  to leach out bitterness. Consequently French press users are advised to  drink or decant the brew immediately. Also, some particles clog the  filter screen making pressing and cleaning very difficult.   
AEROPRESS  coffee is micro-filtered. Its so pure and particle-free that it can be  stored for days as a concentrate. The concentrate can be drunk as  espresso, mixed with milk for lattes, or diluted to make American  coffee. French presses cannot make espresso or lattes. 
Finally,  cleaning the French press is quite a chore. The AEROPRESS chamber is  self-cleaning. A ten-second rinse of the plunger is all that's required. 
AEROPRESS  is the result of several years of applied research by inventor/engineer  Alan Adler. He conducted numerous brewing experiments, measuring the  brew with laboratory instruments. The experiments demonstrated that  proper temperature, total immersion and rapid filtering were key to  flavor excellence.  He then designed and tested dozens of brewers before  settling on the AEROPRESS design. The design was further validated by  coffee lovers who tested prototypes in their homes. Adler is a famous  inventor with over forty U.S. patents and an equal number of foreign  patents.    CoffeeGeek - Why does the AeroPress Coffee Maker Brew a Richer, Smoother Cup of Coffee?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Sold!
I'm getting an Aeropress   :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

> Some people just like to buy shiny objects to polish their ego. Like people who like to park their shiny Ferrari outside the coffee shop  Coffee is made from a plant, not a machine. The more it is tinkered with, the worse it gets.   
> The AEROPRESS is an entirely new way to make  coffee. Water and grounds are mixed together for ten seconds. Then  gentle air pressure pushes the mix through a micro-filter in 20 seconds.  The total brewing time of only 30 seconds results in exceptionally  smooth flavor. Tasters ranging from professional cuppers and author  Kenneth Davids, to coffee aficionados all praise the smooth, rich  flavor.  *Some praises of AEROPRESS:* 
> "It makes the absolute best cup of coffee I've tasted in my entire life." 
> Lewis Singer - Cooks Junction 
> "When  used properly, AeroPress produces a remarkably good straight espresso  and an excellent Americano-style taller cup. In fact, it produces a  better espresso shot than many home machines that cost twenty or thirty  times as much." Kenneth Davids – Author of:
> Coffee: A Guide to Buying Brewing and Enjoying
> Espresso: Ultimate Coffee
> Coffee Roasting: Romance and Revival
> editor of coffeereview.com 
> ...

  
Biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.  The only points I need to make to destroy the credibility of the article is - aeropress is not espresso. Unless it's extracted at around 9 bar it's not espresso. A cup of chino can't be made with anything other than a machine as it is based on an espresso shot. Coffeegeek is an American site and Americans are morons in general but they are particularly retarded with coffee. Hence starchucks.  
As I've said before, anything is better than instant, except starbucks.  Each to their own but never be thinking that anything other than a machine can get the best out of the WELL ROASTED coffee bean. If you think that coffee is best left untinkered with, eat it raw.

----------


## ringtail

> Sold!
> I'm getting an Aeropress

  Do it PG. Watch some vids first though. People do odd stuff with them too, like inverting them.  About $50 ish.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.  The only points I need to make to destroy the credibility of the article is - aeropress is not espresso. Unless it's extracted at around 9 bar it's not espresso. A cup of chino can't be made with anything other than a machine as it is based on an espresso shot. Coffeegeek is an American site and Americans are morons in general but they are particularly retarded with coffee. Hence starchucks.  
> As I've said before, anything is better than instant, except starbucks.  Each to their own but never be thinking that anything other than a machine can get the best out of the WELL ROASTED coffee bean. If you think that coffee is best left untinkered with, eat it raw.

  Im glad there was a good response after the re quoted advertorial.  I didn't know woodbe was their distro....   :Wink:  
mypressi does make an Espresso shot, and a very good one, especially for drinkers of straight espresso

----------


## OBBob

I was given one of these as well. TBH it scares the hell out of me that it's going to explode in my face and cover me in boiling water. Unfortunately, it's not just in my imagination ... I read that it can explode in your face and cover you in boiling water.

----------


## woodbe

> Im glad there was a good response after the re quoted advertorial.  I didn't know woodbe was their distro....   
> mypressi does make an Espresso shot, and a very good one, especially for drinkers of straight espresso

  I wish I was their distro!  :Biggrin:  
It makes great coffee, and you could buy boxes and boxes of these for the cost of a power and maintenance hungry coffee machine. 
The running cost is the coffee, a paper filter for a few cents (which is re-usable if you want), and a tiny bit of hot water. Oh, and you don't need to dump a shot or two because you didn't get it right...

----------


## woodbe

> Biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.  The only points I need to make to destroy the credibility of the article is - aeropress is not espresso. Unless it's extracted at around 9 bar it's not espresso. A cup of chino can't be made with anything other than a machine as it is based on an espresso shot. Coffeegeek is an American site and Americans are morons in general but they are particularly retarded with coffee. Hence starchucks.  
> As I've said before, anything is better than instant, except starbucks.  Each to their own but never be thinking that anything other than a machine can get the best out of the WELL ROASTED coffee bean. If you think that coffee is best left untinkered with, eat it raw.

  lol. If you want espresso from an Aeropress, you can do it. Most people just want a good coffee.    
PG, I reckon you could make these and flog em!  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> PG, I reckon you could make these and flog em!

  What...the lever? 
haha
probably

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Chemistry behind Gale&#39;s Coffee Maker in Breaking Bad - Chemistry Stack Exchange

----------


## ringtail

Bwahahahaha, what a pair of douchebags. May as well use the machine that was used to do the milk, which they also ruined and can't pour for crap.

----------


## Marc

> Some people just like to buy shiny objects to polish their ego. Like people who like to park their shiny Ferrari outside the coffee shop  Coffee is made from a plant, not a machine. The more it is tinkered with, the worse it gets.  _  Originally Posted by ringtail 
> Aeropress, pfffft.  . _   The AEROPRESS is an entirely new way to make coffee. Water and grounds are mixed together for ten seconds. Then gentle air pressure pushes the mix through a micro-filter in 20 seconds. The total brewing time of only 30 seconds results in exceptionally smooth flavor. Tasters ranging from professional cuppers and author Kenneth Davids, to coffee aficionados all praise the smooth, rich flavor.  *Some praises of AEROPRESS: 
> "It makes the absolute best cup of coffee I've tasted in my entire life." 
> Lewis Singer - Cooks Junction 
> "When used properly, AeroPress produces a remarkably good straight espresso and an excellent Americano-style taller cup. In fact, it produces a better espresso shot than many home machines that cost twenty or thirty times as much." Kenneth Davids  Author of:*

  
I much prefer people who are proud of their achievement to those who try to hide it for some misplaced sense of guilt. Of course then there are those who have no achievements to show and that bag those who have. That is a deplorable national sport that deserves an off topic thread all of its own.
As far as this peculiar compressed air plunger contraption I am happy with the description in the above dis infomercial ... an excellent American style cup ... I rest my case.  :Biggrin:

----------


## woodbe

> As far as this peculiar compressed air plunger contraption I am happy with the description in the above dis infomercial ... an excellent American style cup ... I rest my case.

  If you don't have accurate knowledge, (like if you actually have used this 'compressed air plunger contraption') you are just a pawn of your own bias. 
With good coffee beans, the Aeropress puts out great coffee. It is far more practical for everyday use, makes no mess, and is simple to clean.  
Espresso machines are like a Porsche. Lots of show, and they go like a rocket on the racetrack in the right hands, but they will spin into the wall at a moments notice in average hands. They are way less practical than a Corolla for daily chores.

----------


## Marc

Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you. Jim Rohn

----------


## woodbe

lol. Pity you don't take your own advice Marc! 
Look at your previous post. You're arguing about a small thing you have never experienced.  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

*"Meh, whatever"*  _-Platypus Gardens, renovate forum, 2016_    :clown:

----------


## OBBob

It's better if I quote you I think.   *"Meh, whatever"  -Platypus Gardens, renovate forum, 2016*

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Thanks Bob   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

What is it about some black liquids that creates so much argy bargy anyway........  
Like this one...

----------


## woodbe

> Bwahahahaha, what a pair of douchebags. May as well use the machine that was used to do the milk, which they also ruined and can't pour for crap.

  So we are accepting espresso can be done with an Aeropress now, but we don't like the milk pouring and personalities in the video?  *"Meh, whatever"*  _-Platypus Gardens, renovate forum, 2016_

----------


## OBBob

So it turns out that in the not too distant future this thread could run itself.  :Smilie:    Facebook Messenger introducing &#039;chat bot&#039; artificial intelligence - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

----------


## Marc

[QUOTE=PlatypusGardens;1011632]What is it about some black liquids that creates so much argy bargy anyway........[quote]
Its not the coffee, it's declaring an interest in something that is not flat, common, irrelevant, mainstream.
if everyone drives Lada cars, there is safety in numbers.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> So it turns out that in the not too distant future this thread could run itself.    Facebook Messenger introducing &#039;chat bot&#039; artificial intelligence - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

  
Holy crap that would have to be the dumbest thing I've read so far this year. 
not only is Zuckerberg responsible for the decline in ACTUAL conversation between people.....he's going to make something that is will make us communicate EVEN LESS????    :Unsure:

----------


## OBBob

> Holy crap that would have to be the dumbest thing I've read so far this year. 
> not only is Zuckerberg responsible for the decline in ACTUAL conversation between people.....he's going to make something that is will make us communicate EVEN LESS????

  But you're on a forum? Anyway, it says the bots can communicate better than people... however that works?

----------


## woodbe

Are you sure this whole forum isn't full of bots? 
Maybe it's just me and the rest of you are bots! lol.

----------


## OBBob

> Are you sure this whole forum isn't full of bots? 
> Maybe it's just me and the rest of you are bots! lol.

  Um... well let's hope they get it right! Did you see Microsoft's effort recently where their learning teen girl AI bot turned into a Hitler loving Nazi sex slave in less than 24hrs based on the conversations it had online?   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...sex-robot-wit/

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> But you're on a forum?

  
Not the same thing as a bunch of people sitting together, all looking at their phones while sending something to the person sitting next to them. 
Or, if they're actually talking, all they're sayin is "did you see this?" And hold up their phone

----------


## OBBob

Like

----------


## ringtail

> So we are accepting espresso can be done with an Aeropress now, but we don't like the milk pouring and personalities in the video?

  Nope, it's not espresso because it's just not espresso. It's lipstick on a pig and nothing more. Those idiots would be better off using their contraption to squeeze the cheese in their heads  :Biggrin:

----------


## woodbe

lol  :Biggrin:  
So you tried it then?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Mmmmmm....squeezed cheese

----------


## ringtail

> If you don't have accurate knowledge, (like if you actually have used this 'compressed air plunger contraption') you are just a pawn of your own bias. 
> With good coffee beans, the Aeropress puts out great coffee. It is far more practical for everyday use, makes no mess, and is simple to clean.  
> Espresso machines are like a Porsche. Lots of show, and they go like a rocket on the racetrack in the right hands, but they will spin into the wall at a moments notice in average hands. They are way less practical than a Corolla for daily chores.

  
Well it depends what you want out of life in general and that is reflected in coffee. If you think aeropress is good and you're happy to settle for that and have no ambition to take your coffee experience further then good for you. Most enthusiasts want to experience all varieties of coffee but also want to learn and get better. Experience counts for everything. Learning the variables and knowing what to adjust to get the desired result only comes with experience. Saying that espresso machines are not practical for everyday use is just rubbish. If coffee is not your thing that's fine. Drive your Corolla. But don't pretend it's a Porsche cause it just aint and never will be. And yes, I've used an aeropress. If you want to live your life based on what is quick, easy and good enough then that's up to you. Some of us don't want to drive Corolla. If you love driving why on earth would you drive a Corolla ?

----------


## OBBob

I can't believe I posted an article about sex loving crazy bots and we still go straight back to COFFEE! Something is broken in this thread...

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> If you love driving why on earth would you drive a Corolla ?

  I'd have a crack at this.....         
Heaps sik, ay     :Biggrin:

----------


## OBBob

> I'd have a crack at this.....         
> Heaps sik, ay

  In fairness... there's not much Corolla there.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> sex loving crazy bot

  You rang?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Actually, this is more me       
Meep meep

----------


## ringtail

Needs to tub the guards on that Corolla a bit more. Probably has a rotary in it.

----------


## pharmaboy2

Aero press is a better version of plunger coffee. 
instant brown liquid drinkers would of course say that aero press is too much hassle and not practical in the domestic environment.

----------


## OBBob

Both too heavy for me ...

----------


## Marc

Mention your hobbies, your likes, your desires and you will be instantly judged and measured with the smallest shortest more mediocre left handed stick there is. 
It's so predictable, so funny and so sad at the same time.

----------


## ringtail

> Aero press is a better version of plunger coffee. 
> instant brown liquid drinkers would of course say that aero press is too much hassle and not practical in the domestic environment.

  x 2

----------


## MorganGT

> Espresso machines are like a Porsche. Lots of show, and they go like a rocket on the racetrack in the right hands, but they will spin into the wall at a moments notice in average hands. They are way less practical than a Corolla for daily chores.

  I'm not holding my breath waiting to see a cafe opened by some hipsters with a dozen Aeropresses on the counter rather than a traditional espresso machine.
Most volumetric espresso machines are fairly idiot proof, otherwise the average 'barista' couldn't operate them. Probably less than 10% of 'baristas' actually deserve the title, the rest we call 'button pushers' because that is really their limit of ability or understanding of the equipment and process.

----------


## MorganGT

> Both too heavy for me ...

   Actually, there isn't much difference. A Lotus Elise weighs 725kg, a 2nd generation Corolla (E20) weighs from 730kg depending on specification. 
If you want light, the Datsun 1000 wagon I used to have weighed 645kg, and went well with the 'big block' Datsun 1200 engine conversion - was nice and scary at 180km/h (9000rpm!) 
Oh, and that second Corolla would be a fun thing - it has a supercharged Lexus V8 in it.......

----------


## OBBob

> I'm not holding my breath waiting to see a cafe opened by some hipsters with a dozen Aeropresses on the counter rather than a traditional espresso machine.
> Most volumetric espresso machines are fairly idiot proof, otherwise the average 'barista' couldn't operate them. Probably less than 10% of 'baristas' actually deserve the title, the rest we call 'button pushers' because that is really their limit of ability or understanding of the equipment and process.

  Hmm... but I don't think you can call the machines idiot proof. The 'button pushers' may not break the machine but they certainly do a good job of not making good coffee. Or perhaps sometimes that's because the cafes sometimes skimp on how much ground coffee actually goes in the group?

----------


## ringtail

> I'm not holding my breath waiting to see a cafe opened by some hipsters with a dozen Aeropresses on the counter rather than a traditional espresso machine.
> Most volumetric espresso machines are fairly idiot proof, otherwise the average 'barista' couldn't operate them. Probably less than 10% of 'baristas' actually deserve the title, the rest we call 'button pushers' because that is really their limit of ability or understanding of the equipment and process.

  Spot on. I hate how they set up the big HX machines and have the pstat turned up for good steam and the button pushers don't understand that they must flush the group before brewing. So I show them. Hit the go button and make them listen. Only takes five seconds to clear but they roll their eyes and start twitching. Bean hopper full to the brim, doser full of stale grounds " just in case they get busy", reheating milk or adding new milk to half a jug of old milk then burning the lot to 80 c. But one lesson from P Dibella's gronks does not make a barista. The thing I find most amusing though is a big sticker on the grinder that states  " don't touch the grind adjustment" . Like most things these days, it's just a job. Who cares, just gimmie the pay cheque

----------


## SilentButDeadly

In the end it's just a coffee shop...

----------


## woodbe

> I'm not holding my breath waiting to see a cafe opened by some hipsters with a dozen Aeropresses on the counter rather than a traditional espresso machine.

  Me either. Well, not in Australia anyway, maybe in another decade. In a cafe, I expect to see variety, expert care and a lot of choice. And not just the beans or cappuccino or latte. Not something we see much of in Australia though, so I understand why everyone thinks an espresso machine is the only answer. Next time you're in Stockholm, do yourself a favour and visit Drop Coffee. They do the lot, they do it extremely well, and they have masses of awards. Pour overs would be their most popular brew (lol, another unmentionable here) they also do inverted Aeropress, and had maybe half a dozen setup when I was there. They even have an espresso machine, lol.

----------


## ringtail

That euro hipster's beard is offensively close to the milk.  :Biggrin:   
I think things like pourover, cold brew etc.... are fads that rise and fall in popularity depending on how much exposure they get. They will always be there in the background but the machine is the king and always will be. Peter Wolff is now doing coffee icecreams FFS. A good point of difference though in a saturated market.

----------


## OBBob

Some cool little back alley, smoke filled dens in Tokyo that do that pour over coffee too.

----------


## ringtail

That euro hipster's beard is offensively close to the milk.  :Biggrin:   
I think things like pourover, cold brew etc.... are fads that rise and fall in popularity depending on how much exposure they get. They will always be there in the background but the machine is the king and always will be. Peter Wolff is now doing coffee icecreams FFS. A good point of difference though in a saturated market.

----------


## ringtail

Double post ?

----------


## OBBob

Your responses are gold Ringtail. However, if you plan to be a coffee bean farmer I think these are all your customers and variety and competition are good for business.  :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

> In the end it's just a coffee shop...

  And hence the explosion of prosumer machines appearing in kitchens. It aint hard to better 98% of cafes with a bit of knowledge and quality product.

----------


## Marc

The only other way to make coffee besides the espresso machine, the espresso bialetti or the napolitana, I actually like the Vietnamese ice coffee made with a drip percolator.
I tried the Vietnamese coffee in an italian percolator and it was dreadful.

----------


## Marc

> I'm not holding my breath waiting to see a cafe opened by some hipsters with a dozen Aeropresses on the counter rather than a traditional espresso machine.
> Most volumetric espresso machines are fairly idiot proof, otherwise the average 'barista' couldn't operate them. Probably less than 10% of 'baristas' actually deserve the title, the rest we call 'button pushers' because that is really their limit of ability or understanding of the equipment and process.

  Hi Morgan ... do you have a good second hand machine from your scrap heap for Black Cat?

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Double post ?

  
I dunno....was it?    :Unsure:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Vietnamese coffee in an italian percolator.

  Culture clash?

----------


## woodbe

All coffee devices are fads, including the machine. 
The only longstanding part of coffee is the bean.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> All coffee devices are fads, including the machine. 
> The only longstanding part of coffee is the bean.

  Which when roasted, split and covered in 70% cocoa chocolate is a very effective and tasty caffeine delivery method...useful when driving long distances.

----------


## ringtail

> Your responses are gold Ringtail. However, if you plan to be a coffee bean farmer I think these are all your customers and variety and competition are good for business.

  Whatever people choose to do with coffee beans after they purchase is up to them. Stick them up ya nose for all I care. The bottom line is all coffee comes from coffee beans and there is no escaping that reality. Happy days.  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> All coffee devices are fads, including the machine. 
> The only longstanding part of coffee is the bean.

  That's true. The core product remains the same, just the delivery method changes.

----------


## ringtail

> I dunno....was it?

  201 & 203. Odd.

----------


## OBBob

> ... The bottom line is all coffee comes from coffee beans and there is no escaping that ...

  Don't hold your breath ... I've posted the fake egg video before.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> 201 & 203. Odd.

  I see....that is odd....a few minutes in between too.

----------


## Marc

> That's true. The core product remains the same, just the delivery method changes.

  Well, that may be so from a chemical point of view, however hardly anyone takes a coffee only for getting some caffeine or they would be getting caffeine pills and get done with it.
And replying to wouldbe. ... the same lack of logic would apply if we said that a steak is after all protein so well done rare or medium is irrelevant since we eat steak for the protein, and why not have a protein shake instead, steak cooking at perfection is a fad and so are fancy grills and plates, barbeques and spits. Just pop a shake and get done with it. 
And we could ridicule the whole of the culinary art and label it a ridiculous fad in the realm of the pretentious little bourgeois. We should all be on Russian army rations with all the essential stuff required for subsistence and get done with it ...  :Smilie:  
Hardly the case.
Making good coffee is an art, just like cooking a good steak or making a good curry or a good crostata. If someone does not like coffee or steak or cake, or lacks the skills to make a decent one that is his privilege or his loss. Yet such shortcomings shouldn't be turned against those who enjoy it.

----------


## woodbe

It's not a chemical point of view, it's a plant point of view. The coffee bean is from a plant, it's biological. 
I'm not ridiculing culinary art, I'm pointing out that it is not locked. It changes, and thank heavens it does. That's what a fad is, it is a popular method of doing something that comes and goes. An Aeropress is a fad, so is an espresso machine. Making great coffee is an art regardless of your chosen method. 
What's all this nonsense about stakes? Stakes are bits of wood for knocking off vampires.  :Biggrin:

----------


## pharmaboy2

Plants aren't sentient. 
espresso is a just over a century long fad, aero is not even yet a fad, outside of a section of coffee snobs and coffee geek.com 
now pour over, THATS a proper fad

----------


## OBBob

Apparently over 100 years old. More recent here though...   http://coffee.wikia.com/wiki/Pour-Ov...ration_Brewing

----------


## ringtail

> Plants aren't sentient. 
> espresso is a just over a century long fad, aero is not even yet a fad, outside of a section of coffee snobs and coffee geek.com 
> now pour over, THATS a proper fad

  Agree. I don't think aeropress is hipster enough to get a cult following. Chemex and siphon are just the ticket for the bearded  :Tongue:

----------


## pharmaboy2

Cold or hot siphon? 
or is that fully top knot and fixie cool.....

----------


## PlatypusGardens



----------


## Marc

Woodbe, your post invariably seem to deviate into a sort of socio-sarcasm where anything that requires more than token amounts of money are frown upon as unnecessary, product of ego and replaceable by something with pedals or a hand pump.
Ferraris, coffee machines and other expensive shiny objects are the result of some form or another of success. The healthy reaction to someone else's success is celebrating it.
To bag the visible side of said success achieves nothing at all. To put down as a fad the choice someone has made to treat himself with a "shiny object" is pointless. 
PS
Thank you for pointing out my spelling mistake.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Woodbe, your post invariably seem to deviate into a sort of socio-sarcasm where anything that requires more than token amounts of money are frown upon as unnecessary, product of ego and replaceable by something with pedals or a hand pump.
> Ferraris, coffee machines and other expensive shiny objects are the result of some form or another of success. The healthy reaction to someone else's success is celebrating it.
> To bag the visible side of said success achieves nothing at all. To put down as a fad the choice someone has made to treat himself with a "shiny object" is pointless. 
> .

  
Good post

----------


## PhilT2

That's total BS, shiny things are just shiny things. You can own a lot of them and still be a complete w**ker. While some successful people have lots of shiny things so do all the drug dealers and con men. it means exactly nothing. I feel no more obliged to celebrate someone's success than I do their birthday. What total dribble.

----------


## OBBob



----------


## SilentButDeadly

> I feel no more obliged to celebrate someone's success than I do their birthday.

  Same here. Though I will give extra points for creating something that successfully demonstrates creativity, artfulness and innovation. 
A flashy car or chromed up niche coffee machines are just...things...that successful people can buy. Good for them. But (to paraphrase a successful musician) it ain't no big fluffing deal...

----------


## Marc

Interesting reply even when completely predictable.  
Success is defined as the accomplishment of an aim or purpose. So a person can be successful in his aim to paint a portrait, to repair an engine, to become an olympic athlete, to become a millionaire or to be the employee of the month. Not surprisingly the aim itself is irrelevant to the accomplishment. 
It requires very similar mental attitude to succeed in achieving any of the many goals one can dream of. It is just as hard to create a portrait then it is to make your first million or to become a successful public speaker. And what others think of one's choice of goal is particularly irrelevant. 
The purchase of expensive assets, is a choice that is available only to those whose aim was to become rich and that have been successful in that pursuit. That is an indisputable fact. 
The painter, unless his art is appreciated in the market enough to make him rich, will be a successful person but will not drive an expensive car.So clearly the person that drives a Maserati, is able to do so due to his success in the money game, and his choice of cars.  
The unsuccessful in such game can either try to understand what the other person has done right and attempt to copy his success, or hide their lack in a contrived bubble of moral outrage propped by innuendos of suspicion and allegation of dishonesty, clinging to the fallacy that rich people become rich at the expense of the poor. 
In other words, the successful has become so robbing the others of their chance to succeed. And that very thought is the one that keeps the unsuccessful in that state because it frees him from any need to actually do something to change his condition. it's a fascinating subject.

----------


## PhilT2

I think it's a mistake to equate shiny things with success. The local drug dealer, when he got busted, had lots of shiny things. Some really did belong to him. Not saying that all those who have shiny things are dishonest, just that it is a poor metric on which to base a judgement on that persons value.  
And attributing motives to those judged as "unsuccessful" that has no basis in any properly researched literature is just as superficial.

----------


## OBBob

Finally 230 posts later the off topic topic is almost irreversibly off the off topic!

----------


## pharmaboy2

Sorry, but some level of success is in no way relevant to a flipping coffee machine. 
seriously, I bloody love coffee, I will drive 15minutes further and walk down unknown alleys to find a decent espresso bar. The first thing I do when I don't have a machine is go out and get a takeaway coffee, then by 9am I have a second.  Including the missus, that is $13 a day on flat whites. 
so, no one would say a person who buys a couple of flat whites a day is on the uppity up, yet that is $3000 a year.  You can buy a whole setup for that and for a few more hundred in beans and milk, you can make better drinks than 99% of coffee shops, you can also have it straight away when you wake up, and don't need to start the car up before you've got going. 
no one here is dumb enough to think that aero press is an espresso, so the $50 option is moot. 
disposable income is the wrong question entirely - look at Foxtel, motorbikes, 4wd's, caravans, boats - these things seem to have an inverse relationship to suburb quality, yet cost way more than a simple espresso device

----------


## pharmaboy2

> The unsuccessful in such game can either try to understand what the other person has done right and attempt to copy his success, or hide their lack in a contrived bubble of moral outrage propped by innuendos of suspicion and allegation of dishonesty, clinging to the fallacy that rich people become rich at the expense of the poor. 
> In other words, the successful has become so robbing the others of their chance to succeed. And that very thought is the one that keeps the unsuccessful in that state because it frees him from any need to actually do something to change his condition. it's a fascinating subject.

  Keeping the off topic off topic (obviously in the main to upset the pedants)... 
ah, the old share of the pie thing - classic Australian politics. 
well for what it's worth,  there are self centred knobs who are successful and not, but I think the defining aspect of a stellar human being who is also successful in business, is they realise that there is some element of luck and plenty of others in business have also worked very hard but not quite done as well.

----------


## ringtail

My set up cost me a lot less than retail, an awful lot less than retail but it retails for around $4800, plus my drum roaster which I built from scratch for about $200. My machine makes at least 8 doubles a day and some days 12. From a purely economic point of view one doesn't have to be a wizard to work out the pay back time. I love coffee and most things to do with it and my shiny machine is nothing more that a tool to satisfy my addiction. It's definitely not a sign of success. Every person I know that is wealthy is a tosser, without exception. They have accumulated their wealth by crapping on others to improve their own position. And for that I have zero time for them and if I could be bothered, I wish them ill will ( I'm petty like that ). I'm really struggling to think of anyone that actually deserves what they have and more importantly, appreciates what they have.  Maybe the flowhive guys are worthy. I have come to accept that I shall never be wealthy in a monetary sense but I look at what I can do and what others can't and I'm definitely happy with me. Bring on the apocalypse and we shall see who survives.   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Well...I'm not sure about praising people for their shiny things as a sign of success. 
At the same time, it's up to each and everyone what they spend their money on.
Bagging someone for having a huge shiny expensive coffee machine (or whatever) that they enjoy is....well...a bit silly.  :Unsure:      
As for "wealth".....that does not automatically equate to happiness.  
*sips cheap coffee and watches home made windmills with a smile*

----------


## OBBob

> As for "wealth".....that does not automatically equate to happiness.

  ... or money for that matter.   :Wink:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> ... or money for that matter.

  
It'd be nice not to have a mortgage though.....

----------


## goldie1

> It'd be nice not to have a mortgage though.....

  It is   :Smilie:

----------


## OBBob

> It'd be nice not to have a mortgage though.....

  Perhaps you could subdivide your block, sell the house and keep the shed?

----------


## woodbe

> The purchase of expensive assets, is a choice that is available only to those whose aim was to become rich and that have been successful in that pursuit. That is an indisputable fact. 
> The painter, unless his art is appreciated in the market enough to make him rich, will be a successful person but will not drive an expensive car.So clearly the person that drives a Maserati, is able to do so due to his success in the money game, and his choice of cars.

  What a load of dribble. 
Cue Clive Palmer. He must be one of your heros! 
I have had an expensive coffee machine. When all went well, it made great coffee. Yes, I paid for it out of my own money and it was shiny. I must be rich! 
I don't think you need to be rich to have a shiny coffee machine, or a Maserati. All you need is a goal and a focus on your priorities.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

I think we all need to calm down a bit and have a nice cup of coffee   :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

> I think we all need to calm down a bit and have a nice cup of coffee

  Agree on the cup of coffee, have a steaming one right in front of me, extracted with care with my Carimali Cento ... ha ha 
As far as the angry comments, like I said before they are completely predictable. 
The instant "hate the rich" reaction you get when you bring up the topic is only the expected response to a loaded question. 
There are many other loaded questions that bring just as many hate reply, yet the sad part is that most people don't realise why this blind hate and what is behind it. 
Most if not all of the left wing parties have been built on this hate, and even successful people hide their success because they themselves believe that there must be something wrong with it.  
Walk with a group of people past a parked ferrari, lamborghini, maserati, mercedes, the brand does not matter and observe your group reaction and comments. They don't know who the owner is, yet they will most of the time volunteer a whole array of toxic comments, that say in other words ... "I am not like those @#$% rich people and that is why I am poor" Not in those words of course but that is what they mean. 
Yes, hard to swallow but the reality is that there is an infinite amount of money out there for the one that is determined to get it, and a lot of excuses for the one that is determined not to. The best one is that rich are lucky and the rest are just unlucky. 
Nothing wrong with each choice of course, each has it's good and bad side, after all it is a choice even when most of the time not a conscious one. 
 If only people would take the time to understand why they make one choice over another and to understand it they must look at themselves and understand their array of values and take the focus away from the "others" ... it's not "the others" fault.

----------


## woodbe

Who said anything about 'hate the rich' ? 
The point I made was anyone who has a wage above poverty level is able to do whatever they like with the extra coin in their pocket. That can be a coffee machine or a Maser if that's your interest. Better idea than peeing it against the wall I reckon.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Who said anything about 'hate the rich' ? 
> The point I made was anyone who has a wage above poverty level is able to do whatever they like with the extra coin in their pocket. That can be a coffee machine or a Maser if that's your interest. Better idea than peeing it against the wall I reckon.

  Who knows, Marc just goes off spraying in every direction. 
rich v poor is a relative concept.  There are no poor Aussies as far as I'm concerned - lucky as all buggary to be in this country where the feeling of hunger is unknown except to the few who aggressively refuse help and the mentally ill. 
how you see yourself will depend a lot on the people you hang with.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> rich v poor is a relative concept.  There are no poor Aussies as far as I'm concerned - lucky as all buggary to be in this country  
> how you see yourself will depend a lot on the people you hang with.

  One can have all the money in the world and still be unhappy.  
Just back from the mangroves with 5 mudcrabs, some caught in home made pots, using fish heads and backbones (we got for free from a mate) as bait.
We shall be cooking them over a fire of free firewood we got from somewhere else in a firepit made from free recycled bricks.  :Biggrin:  
Wonder what the rich people will be doing tonight?
Probably paying $30-60/kg for mudcrabs from the shop....  :Unsure:   
A roof over my head, someone to love, a handful of really good mates, a dog or two and a fridge full of beer.
I don't need much more.   :Smilie:   
I have nothing against people with money and what they spend it on, in general.
What does bother me is people looking down at others for not "having what they have" 
(not referring to anyone here in this discussion)
But I've seen and heard it.
A lot.
Not necessarily directed at me, but it has happened as well. 
More often than not these are also the people who couldn't survive for more than a day without electricity.
Probably wouldn't even know how to light a fire. 
I have no idea what any of this has to do with coffee machines or anything at all but I just felt like having a rant.
Everyone else is.
Gotta keep up with the Joneses   :Rofl5:    
Going back to the "wonder what the rich people" comment above..... 
Great memory.
I was working for this bloke in Brissie doing landscaping.
We were building a sleeper wall and had spent 3 days jackhammering rock to get the posts in.
In the pouring rain. 
I look over and as he's wiping the world's biggest booger from his nose with his muddy hand he says _"I wonder what the rich people are doing?"_ 
Coming home that afternoon, having a nice hot shower and putting dry clothes on was better than any amount of money would be.
Done a day's work in the crappiest conditions, body aching and being totally buggered, but achieved something.
Stuff like that makes me feel good. 
That and beer.
And crabs  
ok enough ranting    :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

Ha ha PG, you are one of a kind.
Yes, if you are happy everyone's happy ... or should be.
Like I said before, it's a choice, your choice. If you know you made the choice and you know why, that's all it matters. 
Others make different choices and that also should be all that matters. 
Now where did I put that Maserati's key for goodness sake!  :Rofl5:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Ha ha PG, you are one of a kind.

  so I've been told   
...more than once   :Biggrin:         

> Yes, if you are happy everyone's happy ... or should be.

  ....that's not what I said/meant though....     :Unsure:       

> it's a choice, your choice. If you know you made the choice and you know why, that's all it matters.

  I think it has less to do with "choice" and more to do with "making the most of it and being happy with who you are and what you have" 
If you (not you Marc... "you" as in "anyone") keep striving to be like someone else, or something you're not, you'll be chasing your own tail forever. 
Again - _keeping up with the Joneses_ F##k the Joneses.  :Rolleyes:   
You can't choose to have the skills to do anyhing you want. 
I don't (apparently) have the skills to do a job that earns me a lot of money. 
I do have the skills, however, to make things work, build stuff I need, make things suit my needs and I keep finding myself in situations where people, for some reason, help me with what I need at the time.
 Which, in turn, saves me a lot of money.   
What were we talking about again....?
Coffee?  :Unsure:

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Could be worse. We could be talking about red wine. Or investment decisions. 
Though, I'm still thinking about a little Lelit.

----------


## goldie1

> Could be worse. We could be talking about red wine. Or investment decisions. 
> Though, I'm still thinking about a little Lelit.

  Or "smart phones" God forbid 
Come on PG how about building a working model of a combination coffee roaster/ flamethrower 
I would pay money to see that

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> PG how about building a working model of a combination coffee roaster/ flamethrower

  
What could possibly go wrong....    :Unsure:          * Hold my beer and watch this!*   :Minigun:   :Burnt:   :Flame thrower:         
.

----------


## ringtail

Nothing, nothing at all.  :Biggrin:  
Machine warming up, having a post farm beer. Sticking pins in rich people voodoo dolls too  :Tongue:

----------


## Marc

This may be of interest to the coffee making guys.  Coffee myths busted | Blog | Five Senses Coffee 
One of the curious things about coffee making is that, historically, there has been no formal training structure. Most parallel pursuits (cooking, wine making etc) have formalised apprenticeships and education systems. Coffee making is often learnt from more experienced coffee makers or coffee roasting companies. This can lead to the perpetuation of some practices that are a total waste of time — and sometimes even counterproductive to making great coffee. The latter are often ingrained and hard habits to break, even though they have no reasonable basis.
Here we’ve waded through some of the more commonly encountered beliefs about coffee to bring you the hard facts and dispel some of the myths that are floating around. Whether you’re an experienced home barista or working behind an espresso bar, here is the Five Senses’ definitive guide: *Myth 1: A 30ml ‘single’ shot in 30 seconds is the only way to have espresso*For many people in the coffee industry, espresso means 30ml of water pushed though a designated amount of coffee in 30 seconds. This is probably one of the most common myths associated with making espresso coffee. Beans come from different countries and are grown under very different circumstances — varying amounts of rainfall, sunlight and altitude, to name just a few.  This means that each coffee bean has unique characteristics. Therefore, different beans will always result in differing volumes of espresso.
Your best guide to making espresso is to observe the colour changes of the pour. If you look at the colour of an espresso, it undergoes three general shade changes as the water pours through. The initial dark red-brown colour is the ristretto part of the pour, which contributes sweetness and body. The second caramel colour contributes balance and is the espresso part of the pour. When the caramel ends, so does the shot, so when the pour changes to yellow or ‘blonde’, only bitter water is being extracted, and you don’t want that in a shot of coffee! This blonding can happen anywhere between 15ml and 35ml, depending on the variety of coffee used, so every type of coffee will pour at very different lengths of time — 30mls in 30 seconds is just a rough guide. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 2: ‘Bleeding’ the shot gives better coffee*Coffee makers often allow the first few mls of the shot to run into the drip tray before positioning the cup to capture the remainder. This practice is probably a remnant from the days when early model espresso machines struggled to deliver the correct water temperature and pressure. With modern machines, this is not required. The first few mls of the shot is, in fact, the best part of the shot. Repositioning the cup mid-stream also means the cup often ends up with messy streaks down the side. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 3: Espresso machines do not need to be emptied of steam at the end of shift*Many venues bleed all the steam out of the espresso machine in the belief that this will somehow prolong the life of the boiler and seals. In practice, boilers are designed to handle pressure many times higher than the 1.5 bar or so that most boilers run at, and are in no way affected by being left ‘full’. There is no effect on valves. _Myth: Confirmed_ *Myth 4: Once the grind is set, you shouldn’t touch it*This is a very common idea that is often thrown around the coffee industry; in fact, it is one of the easiest myths to test! When we talk about grind, we talk about the ability to adjust the collar of the grinder to give a coarser or finer grind. When the grind is set too coarse, the water flows faster, resulting in a thin and watery tasting coffee. When the grind is set too fine, the water drips slowly out of the machine and, because the hot water is in contact with the coffee for a longer time, the coffee burns and tastes bitter and ashy.
The grind is a constant variable in a café, and therefore if you don’t adjust the grinder throughout the day, then the water will occasionally choke up and run through slowly or speed up and gush out — even if you are doing everything else exactly the same!
This is pretty much all due to the changing air pressure and the residual heat in the grinder burrs. For example, if the day starts out cool and dry, but ends up hot and humid, the grind will very gradually change from being a good pour to a bad pour. So a good barista will always be in contact with the most important piece of equipment, the grinder, adjusting the pour whenever it looks wrong! _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 5: Low fat milk creates the best texture*Another common myth is that low fat milk will create the best texture. Skim milk was often the milk of choice for making cappuccino during the years of the Himalayan peaks (those crazy 80’s/early 90’s). This is because skim milk has a tendency to separate a little more than full cream, making it easier to foam — although not necessarily giving a better quality drink.
Really, the fat in full cream milk produces a full and creamy coffee, with an all round sweetness.  From a texturing point of view, full cream is much harder to texture and create foam, though it always gives a better quality of drink. The drink will look and taste much thicker and will have an attractive, glossy finish, giving not only a tastier drink, but a much more presentable one!
Advanced baristas also point out that to pour latte art, full cream is the best option, as skim tends to have a matt finish that can be a little clumpy. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 6: You should never re-steam milk*When you heat fresh, cold milk in a milk jug, you’ve got a certain amount of time to work with the milk — slowly adding air to create a dense, finely textured micro foam. If you start with milk that’s already warm, or even at room temperature, or if it’s a combination of previously steamed milk and fresh cold milk, you have very little time to do anything before your milk jug is boiling away, with a disgusting scorched milk smell emanating from within. As you heat cold milk, the whey proteins and caseins (the predominant proteins in your milk) begin to denature and lose their ability to be aerated into foam. If you reheat previously steamed milk, you will not be able to create any more foam than is already present and you run the risk of scorching the milk, creating a watery, pungent-tasting final product.
Use fresh, cold milk every time for superior results. If you’re aiming to reduce waste, work on judging the appropriate volume of cold milk per cup. _Myth: Confirmed_ *Myth 7: Tapping the side of the portafilter with the tamper when dosing helps to remove any loose grinds*One of the most hotly debated topics in the coffee industry! And, unlike most topics in coffee, there’s a clear winner in this debate. Everyone has seen the super cool, rock star barista bash the side of the group handle with a tamp to knock the loose grinds down before they tamp again. This has been the practice for many years, and not many people questioned it until just recently.
To confirm this myth, I need to prove that tapping the side of the portafilter does, in fact, knock the loose grinds down from its side and onto the surface of the coffee puck to be tamped flat … but at what cost?
If we dig a little deeper in true coffee nerd fashion, we can achieve a better understanding of the pros and cons of doing this. It ’s true that the grinds get knocked down, but using a Naked Portafilter, we see that no matter how gentle the tap, it will always either crack or dislodge the puck, allowing the water to find the path of least resistance through the coffee. So, in effect, while tapping the side does create a nice flat surface, it destroys the coffee flavour by creating channelling. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 8: Decaf contains no caffeine*To be certified as decaffeinated coffee, only 97% of the caffeine needs to be removed, so most decafs contain a small amount of caffeine — roughly 2mg /100ml as opposed to 175mg/100ml in regular espresso. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 9: A cup of drip filter contains more caffeine than a shot of espresso*Different brewing processes have different steeping times, which has a big impact on the amount of caffeine that’s extracted. Per 100ml, espresso contains the most caffeine, at 175mg, followed by drip filter and then plunger (see www.energyfiend.com). However, if you compare a full sized cup of drip filter to an espresso shot, it’s clear that the cup of drip filter contains more caffeine (around 107.5mg) than the shot of espresso (77mg). _Myth: Plausible_ *Myth 10: I should not rinse my PF with water before dosing*This myth is easily investigated using the Naked Portafilter, which allows you to see the bottom of the coffee basket, and so to determine where the water flows through the coffee. The aim is to obtain an even press of water through the coffee basket, which will achieve an even extraction.
When the basket already has a coating of water, the water that’s already there tends to attract the other water droplets — not unlike a newly waxed car, where water moves to join up with other water drops. When this occurs when you’re making coffee, the water is encouraged to move around the wet side of the basket rather than obtaining the desired even press. This leads to an over-extracted drink, lacking in the body and sweetness that comes with an even press of water.
If you want to clean old grinds from the portafilter, use a tea towel. _Myth: Confirmed_ *Myth 11: Allowing any blonding at the end of the shot will result in a bad cup*This question crops up every now and again, with people running more water through the coffee in an attempt to make it stronger. Essentially, only a small amount of coffee will dissolve when you pass water through it. This occurs predominantly at the beginning of the shot, when you experience the intense, sweet flavour of the ristretto. Then, as the amount of soluble reduces, the espresso section starts, which contributes very little sweetness to the pour. This part of the shot is more concerned with creating a balanced drink. At the end of the pour, the shot will ‘blonde’, ie change to pale yellow.
If the ‘blonde’ part of the extraction is taken out of the drink and tasted separately (see our previous article for a rundown on how to do this), it is easy to taste the heavy bitterness and harsh, thin body/mouthfeel which it contributes to the drink. By cutting off a shot before the end of the extraction (when the shot becomes blonde), the drink will always have a better taste. If a stronger drink is required, have another separate shot of coffee to keep the quality high! _Myth: Confirmed_ *Myth 12: When making just one coffee, it’s better to use the single basket*Observing the majority of cafés around town, you will notice that many use a single basket when they make just one cup of coffee. On every machine, there is an option to use a portafilter with a single spout or a portafilter with two spouts, so in theory you can make either one coffee or two coffees at a time. This is an okay concept, provided that you’re using a double basket in your portafilter. A single basket is sometimes used in an attempt to reduce coffee wastage or to make a weaker coffee when it’s requested by a customer, but looking at it from a quality point of view, the single basket never seems to stack up.
The reason for this is quite simple, especially when you examine and compare the shape of the single and double basket. The most important difference between the two is that the double basket is square, while the single basket is shaped like a ‘V’ — a great shape for engines, but not so good for coffee!
Keep in mind that the idea of espresso coffee is to press water evenly through the ‘biscuit’ of coffee in order for the parts to dissolve out evenly. If you look at the shape of the square double basket, it is easy to see that the water will go through the coffee flat.
The single basket has been created in the ‘V’ shape in order to get the same speed of shot through half as much coffee, and therefore it encourages a lot of water though a small amount of coffee, particularly around the edge of the coffee puck, where the coffee is at its thinnest. This leads to a more bitter coffee that has a much thinner taste, with a reduced amount of sweetness. _Myth: Busted_ *Myth 13: You should never turn your machine off*Well, this obviously depends on whether you’re working your magic behind a busy espresso bar or pulling shots in the comfort of your own kitchen. *Café Machines*
In a café setting, there are definite advantages to leaving your coffee machine switched on all the time, and it’s what we recommend. Firstly, when a machine is heating up, its components are under significant mechanical stress (we really mean significant), as the various parts expand at different rates, often resulting in electrical and mechanical breakdown. Leaving your machine on permanently can help you to avoid these costly breakdowns. In addition, the time it takes to fully heat your machine after you first switch it on is usually much longer than the time it takes for the light to appear on your machine indicating that it’s warmed up. This is because it’s not just the water which needs to heat up, but also all of the group head components. If you start using the machine too early eg before all of the metal parts have had time to heat up, the temperature stability of your machine will be less than ideal, and your coffee will suffer.
On the other hand, there’s obviously an energy saving if you switch the machine off when you’re not using it, and the rubber seals in your machine will not go brittle as quickly … but with regular maintenance this won’t be a problem. *Home Machines*
Our advice to home users is a little different though. We recommend to switch on the coffee machine about half an hour before you want your first coffee. Your manual probably says that the machine will be ready to go in 6 or 7 minutes, but in reality it takes about half an hour. Like we mentioned for cafe machines above, this is because it’s not just the water that needs to heat up, but also all of the group head components. If you start using the machine before all of the metal parts have had time to heat through properly, the temperature stability of your machine will be less than ideal, and your coffee will suffer.
In the early A.M. hours, many of you may be tempted to skip the half hour warm up and go straight for a shot. Well, we’ve got the perfect solution to that problem. Invest in a timer switch that you can attach to the cord at the power point (although make sure it’s a high grade timer that can handle 10amp power). You can then set the timer to turn on your machine half an hour before you get up, so that you can wake up the way you want — that is, with a coffee in hand.
And while it’s true that the process of heating up puts mechanical stress on the component parts of your machine, a home espresso machine uses considerably less energy than its commercial cousin, making it worth your while to turn the machine off when you’re not using it. _Myth: Confirmed for café machines, Busted for domestic machines_
The world of coffee is exciting. It’s constantly growing, learning and expanding its field of reference. That means we’re continually learning how to create a better result in the cup — and we want to pass that knowledge on to you. Enjoy!

----------


## ringtail

Can't believe it but I agree with absolutely all of that. People get hung up on all sorts of variable crap. You must do this and mustn't do that because some knob has written it down somewhere like some sort of perfect world coffee rulebook.  As a good mate of mine says, 2+2 = 5 for great coffee. The best advice I can give anyone is to totally ignore any advice that comes out of the USA.  :Tongue:

----------


## OBBob

Win! Quick, lock the thread!

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Can't believe it but I agree with absolutely all of that. People get hung up on all sorts of variable crap. You must do this and mustn't do that because some knob has written it down somewhere like some sort of perfect world coffee rulebook.  As a good mate of mine says, 2+2 = 5 for great coffee. The best advice I can give anyone is to totally ignore any advice that comes out of the USA.

  Yep, not exactly groundbreaking stuff - I was expecting to be some bull on freezing beans to keep them fresh (which is the only thing I do that some roasters disagree with) 
Marc however would greatly improve his own espresso if he ditched that horrible Victoria burnt stuff and tried something decent and fresh.  Though because Vitoria is such vile and strong stuff, a single shot actually makes a brew that tastes like coffee.  BUT a good medium roast in a double shot from fresh beans makes a truly excellent drink at twice the price.

----------


## MorganGT

> Can't believe it but I agree with absolutely all of that.

  I'd agree with all that except for leaving a commercial machine on all the time. Absolutely no need to, I've never seen any signs of a difference in lifespan of equipment or frequency of mechanical or electronic issues.
It used to be the rule to leave commercial machines on all the time because the type of gasket material used on the boilers of older machines didn't cope as well as teflon with the expansion and contraction of metal components.
If it was truly a bad idea to switch off commercial machines overnight the current practice with higher-spec machines to be able to set automatic on/off times for the machine would be a bad idea.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Win! Quick, lock the thread!

    :Rofl5:

----------


## ringtail

> Yep, not exactly groundbreaking stuff - I was expecting to be some bull on freezing beans to keep them fresh (which is the only thing I do that some roasters disagree with) 
> Marc however would greatly improve his own espresso if he ditched that horrible Victoria burnt stuff and tried something decent and fresh.  Though because Vitoria is such vile and strong stuff, a single shot actually makes a brew that tastes like coffee.  BUT a good medium roast in a double shot from fresh beans makes a truly excellent drink at twice the price.

  I'd rather try and extract my toenail clippings than use supermarket beans. We should do a bean quantity count to see if it's worth me roasting for you southern chumps  :Tongue:  . Marc must go through 3 kg a week with 15 dentists in his practice  :Tongue:  . I go through a kilo a week without much drama.

----------


## ringtail

> Win! Quick, lock the thread!

  
Nooooooooo. Unlockable.  :Biggrin:

----------


## OBBob

Speaking of people that could do with a sit down and a coffee (you have to listen to the background arguments) ...

----------


## Marc

Vittoria mountain grown is actually a very decent bean. I have tried some super dooper home roasted bean at what was it $50 or $60 a kilo and the results were only marginally better.
I know I make a good shot with what I have. The beans I would like to buy are those used in a coffee shop in Haberfield, probably the only shop I know that makes a cup worth going for. But they are not telling.

----------


## woodbe

Glad you like it Marc, but we don't go near any retail beans. Too old by the time they are on the shelf. There are plenty of local bean coffee roasters and even if they are too far away you can get fresh beans posted in a day. 
Our current favourite here in SA: Home - Simply Coffee, Adelaide - Coffee Bean Roasting, Coffee Beans, Domestic Coffee Machines, Coffee Grinders, Coffee Accessories, Coffee Supplies, Cafe

----------


## pharmaboy2

> I'd rather try and extract my toenail clippings than use supermarket beans. We should do a bean quantity count to see if it's worth me roasting for you southern chumps  . Marc must go through 3 kg a week with 15 dentists in his practice  . I go through a kilo a week without much drama.

  Haha - I just tried to sneak a 1/4 blend of those emergency beans with my usual, wifey took a sip, pulled a face, and asked what I'd done with that.   So can't even hide them in a one in four, maybe I need to try a homeopathic solution

----------


## ringtail

> Haha - I just tried to sneak a 1/4 blend of those emergency beans with my usual, wifey took a sip, pulled a face, and asked what I'd done with that.   So can't even hide them in a one in four, maybe I need to try a homeopathic solution

  Bwahahaha, you can't polish a @@@@ pharma.  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Bwahahaha, you can't polish a @@@@ pharma.

  
Mythbusters would disagree

----------


## OBBob

> Mythbusters would disagree

  
I guess the point is that it will still taste like ... (the same).  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I guess the point is that it will still taste like ... (the same).

  
Yeh, they didn't test that aspect of it...

----------


## Marc

OK, so here is a roaster that is sort of close.
How do I select what to buy? The names tell me nothing.   News & Promotions

----------


## woodbe

> OK, so here is a roaster that is sort of close.
> How do I select what to buy? The names tell me nothing.   News & Promotions

  Well, they have a sampler pack...   http://cococoffee.cafeinaroasters.co...mpler-4-1.html

----------


## ringtail

Depends what you like in your cup Marc. Acid fruity or more mellow and earthy. I go for earthy chocolate and nutty flavours and this generally means avoiding most african beans. The central and south americans deliver in spades. The African beans tend to be a lot fruitier. Columbian bachue supremo is an all time bean for me. Roasts well and gives me what I want. I dont bother blending. Going single origin lets me experience each bean on its merits but certain beans, like brazilians are born blenders. Pretty decent as a single origin but add great body to chocolate to any blend. Of course, if you don't roast yourself you are at the mercy of the roaster. Most roast too light to cater for the frikken hipsters. Jeff @ mycuppa does outstanding work though. But again, it comes down to what you like, not what others say you should like  :Wink:   Buy Coffee Beans, Specialty Coffee Online, Fresh Roasted Coffee For Sale 
or alternatively find a cafe that roasts their own. Try their house blend/s and buy if you're happy. I buy greens from a local cafe/roaster as the wholesaler I was using went a bit troppo. I buy at a flate rate of $10/kilo for greens which is cheap as. Really good money in roasting as most charge $30-50 kg.

----------


## OBBob

> OK, so here is a roaster that is sort of close.
> How do I select what to buy? The names tell me nothing.   News & Promotions

  It's the same as wine Marc... just go in the store and pic the label that looks best!   :Tongue:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I go for earthy chocolate and nutty flavours

  You're earthy and nutty

----------


## ringtail

> You're earthy and nutty

  
And then some.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

We get our beans from a local roaster (semi retired paramedic & piano tuner) who sells via the farmers market...typically $26 per kilo...though the Tiger Mountain beans run to $30.

----------


## ringtail

Mmmmm, ITM. Another fave of mine. Can be hard to come by at times

----------


## Marc

Ok, I'll try the tourist pack and go from there ... 
Have another question probably for Morgan if you are around.
Sometimes I may overdo the tamping just a tad nothing major, nothing that the Sunbeam couldn't deal with and the machine sits there pumping and pumping and only drips come through.
I have one of those blank handles with a gauge attached to the handle and it tells me 10.25 bars. Now I understand that this is static pressure so the real pressure when extracting is about one bar less or so. Is this enough pressure or should I crank it up?
I would really like to have an inline gauge to show the pressure of extraction. How hard is it to do by myself?

----------


## pharmaboy2

Not an answer for you Marc, but I've played with tamping pressures and found really buggar all difference between high and moderate, but 2 versus 3 taps on the bench before scraping the dose makes a big difference to shot length (given the same grind).  So concentrate on dosing and how you settle the beans in the filter - doesn't matter how obviously, just that it's done the same way every time

----------


## notvery

cant believe i read that whole thread in one sitting only aided by 1 cup of Nescafe blend 43. better go get me another.. or maybe a nice cup of strong milky sugary tea

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> cant believe i read that whole thread in one sitting only aided by 1 cup of Nescafe blend 43. better go get me another.. or maybe a nice cup of strong milky sugary tea

    :Rofl5:

----------


## ringtail

> Ok, I'll try the tourist pack and go from there ... 
> Have another question probably for Morgan if you are around.
> Sometimes I may overdo the tamping just a tad nothing major, nothing that the Sunbeam couldn't deal with and the machine sits there pumping and pumping and only drips come through.
> I have one of those blank handles with a gauge attached to the handle and it tells me 10.25 bars. Now I understand that this is static pressure so the real pressure when extracting is about one bar less or so. Is this enough pressure or should I crank it up?
> I would really like to have an inline gauge to show the pressure of extraction. How hard is it to do by myself?

  Your grind is too fine and I'm betting the dose is too high. No 1 killer of the collar on sunbeams is over dosing. do the 5 cent test. google. The tamping doesn't matter although the less the better. No need to lean on it. Rookie mistake. Fingertip pressure only. From memory the opv is not adjustable on the sunbeams and the 7000  may mot even have on at all. This what one gets with an appliance as opposed to a real machine. A few delusional people have retro fitted an opv to them but in reality, a thermoblock appliance is not worth spending the time playing. 8-9 bar is good but again, these are just numbers. 2+2=5 for great coffee.

----------


## Marc

Hum ... not sure I get it.
I have two machines, one is the Cento and the other one is a Sunbeam. The Sunbeam EM7000 at home, the Carimali at the holiday house. 
At home with the Sunbeam I can tamp the grind more. Someone told me 20 kilos? Sounds like a lot. the machine will pump through the grind at just the right pressure. That much i know because it has an inline gauge.
With the Carimali, the basket is shallower to begin with and it does not take half the pressure I apply to the Sunbeam. 
I tried coarser grind but then the water shoots through. I changed the grind one slot at the time and on the Rossi one slot is absolutely minimal. A great grinder. So I got to this grade but if I overdo the tamping by very little I clog up the machine. So the question is ... grind, pressure on the grind and water pressure need to be in a balance I suppose.
So is static pressure at 10.25 sufficient or needs to be higher? The water pump has an adjustment.
 Sure I can wind the grinder back a tad or I can apply less pressure to the tamper.
I would like to have a gauge that shows the extraction pressure.

----------


## OBBob

Coffee machines really should have WiFi and data logging by now... then you could just upload a data set and others could comment on where you are going wrong.

----------


## ringtail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B-4flQzb6I  Why tamping doesnt matter as much as you think 
Ok, video is a perfect example of why one never takes any notice of anything from the USA. These two are typical examples of the coffee industry over there. Look at the dishwater. OMFG ! The coffeesnobs post is a good description of why tamp pressure matters not.  
Now the Sunbeam. Don't believe the gauge on any machine but in particular a cheap machine. They are pretty rubbish. Everything is a balance or combination of different variable to get the desired result. Dose, grind, pressure and tamp. I think the first thing to master is dosing. Get the dose right and the puck can expand properly. Get it too high (too much coffee) and the machine can choke ( and in sunbeams wears the collar out and lots of nasty things happen with the group head and coffee fines getting into places where they shouldn't). Get the dose too low and extraction is too fast and the puck is a wet sloppy mess. 10.25 bar is fine and a good extraction pressure is anywhere from 8 -10. Most euro machines are preset at 12 and always need winding down IMO. Of course, these are all variables that can be played with. With the Carimali, you need bigger baskets. I hope you're not using the single baskets in either machine ?? If so, throw them in the bin. They are crap. No where near enough volume to get a decent shot. Want a single, use a double ,triple or quad basket and either cut the shot short or split it into two cups. Some argue it's a waste but the extra coffee used is more than made up for in the shot quality. After all, it's what's in the cup that counts. On the rossi or any stepped grinder, one step is massive in espresso land. That's why stepless grinders or those that use a micrometric system are king. Minute adjustments make the difference here. Not saying that a good shot can't be had but you need to be right on top of all the other variables. If the grind to too coarse but the next step finer gives you a choke, updose a touch with the coarser grind and see what happens or down dose a touch with the finer grind ( a touch is SFA too). But dosing is number 1 to get right first. Then you're in the ballgame as one variable is pretty much gone. Leaving the grind as the next one to play with. All about consistency and repeatability. With an E61 machine, fill the basket and tap the PF twice lightly on the bench ( I use a piece of cork matting) to collapse the coffee. Fill the basket to a slight mound then use the back of a knife and sweep it across the top of the basket removing the excess. Lightly tamp and polish. Happy days. With the Sunbeam, do the same and after you have tamped place a 5 cent piece on top of the puck. Lock the PF in as per normal ( don't crank the crap out of it) then remove. The 5 cent piece should not be pushed into the coffee at all. If it is the dose is too high and you need to adjust your dosing technique. You will go through many kg's of beans to get things right. Ask me how I know.

----------


## MorganGT

> Coffee machines really should have WiFi and data logging by now... then you could just upload a data set and others could comment on where you are going wrong.

  Some do - the La Marzocco Strada EP uses variable-speed gear pumps allowing extraction pressure to be changed during a shot, and has a wifi connection so a pressure profile can be 'drawn' on a graph on the accompanying software on a laptop, then uploaded to the machine and played back, or you can manually change the pressure using the paddle control lever on the group head during an extraction, and 'save' that profile for later playback or transfer to the laptop. 
And there's a Dalla Corte model that uses shot timing and volumetric data (flow volume) to decide if the grind setting is correct, and can 'correct' the grind setting by using a wifi connection to a stepper motor on the matching grinder to automatically change the grinder setting.

----------


## ringtail

I know a guy that hooked up a light dimmer switch to the pump of an old breville. He reckoned it works well. Personally, I think the dimmer switch is worth more than the Breville  :Tongue:

----------


## pharmaboy2

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B-4flQzb6I  Why tamping doesnt matter as much as you think 
> Ok, video is a perfect example of why one never takes any notice of anything from the USA. These two are typical examples of the coffee industry over there. Look at the dishwater. OMFG ! The coffeesnobs post is a good description of why tamp pressure matters not.  
> Now the Sunbeam. Don't believe the gauge on any machine but in particular a cheap machine. They are pretty rubbish. Everything is a balance or combination of different variable to get the desired result. Dose, grind, pressure and tamp. I think the first thing to master is dosing. Get the dose right and the puck can expand properly. Get it too high (too much coffee) and the machine can choke ( and in sunbeams wears the collar out and lots of nasty things happen with the group head and coffee fines getting into places where they shouldn't). Get the dose too low and extraction is too fast and the puck is a wet sloppy mess. 10.25 bar is fine and a good extraction pressure is anywhere from 8 -10. Most euro machines are preset at 12 and always need winding down IMO. Of course, these are all variables that can be played with. With the Carimali, you need bigger baskets. I hope you're not using the single baskets in either machine ?? If so, throw them in the bin. They are crap. No where near enough volume to get a decent shot. Want a single, use a double ,triple or quad basket and either cut the shot short or split it into two cups. Some argue it's a waste but the extra coffee used is more than made up for in the shot quality. After all, it's what's in the cup that counts. On the rossi or any stepped grinder, one step is massive in espresso land. That's why stepless grinders or those that use a micrometric system are king. Minute adjustments make the difference here. Not saying that a good shot can't be had but you need to be right on top of all the other variables. If the grind to too coarse but the next step finer gives you a choke, updose a touch with the coarser grind and see what happens or down dose a touch with the finer grind ( a touch is SFA too). But dosing is number 1 to get right first. Then you're in the ballgame as one variable is pretty much gone. Leaving the grind as the next one to play with. All about consistency and repeatability. With an E61 machine, fill the basket and tap the PF twice lightly on the bench ( I use a piece of cork matting) to collapse the coffee. Fill the basket to a slight mound then use the back of a knife and sweep it across the top of the basket removing the excess. Lightly tamp and polish. Happy days. With the Sunbeam, do the same and after you have tamped place a 5 cent piece on top of the puck. Lock the PF in as per normal ( don't crank the crap out of it) then remove. The 5 cent piece should not be pushed into the coffee at all. If it is the dose is too high and you need to adjust your dosing technique. You will go through many kg's of beans to get things right. Ask me how I know.

  Mate, that's some pretty decent amount of info there. Too big a step in the grinder sure sounds like a problem - never had a grinder with that sort of arrangement - just lucky in taking the right advice it would seem - I am probably guilty of a fairly heavy tamp, but back to back does not change the length of the shot much

----------


## ringtail

Have you tried nutating ? I use it all the time now. Works like a boss.  Hmmm, I feel an extraction video coming on.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Haha I saw a stupid TV commercial for Nescafe instant coffee the other day.  
Guy makes himself a cup before going to work.....in a coffee shop!
Tagline was something like  "people who know good coffee love Nescafe" 
Yeah righto...   :Rolleyes:

----------


## OBBob

LOL ... that just supports what we've been saying about the level many coffee shops are operating at!

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> LOL ... that just supports what we've been saying about the level many coffee shops are operating at!

  
Haha fair call

----------


## Marc

> Haha I saw a stupid TV commercial for Nescafe instant coffee the other day.  
> Guy makes himself a cup before going to work.....in a coffee shop!
> Tagline was something like  "people who know good coffee love Nescafe" 
> Yeah righto...

   Why ? You are saying it's not true? 
But it's on TV

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Imagine being asked to be the creative director for an advertising campaign for 'International Roast'...[shudder]

----------


## ringtail

Would be fine if it were a parody  :Tongue:

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Would be fine if it were a parody

  Parodising a tragedy or a crime against humanity is rarely considered amusing...

----------


## ringtail

True but if it's for the greater good then it must be done.

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Parodising a tragedy or a crime against humanity is rarely considered amusing...

  mel Brooks 
just sayin'

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> mel Brooks 
> just sayin'

  
Spaceballs?

----------


## pharmaboy2

Lol  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmYIo7bcUw 
apparently, 22 years wasn't enough.  Even the 40 year time gap didn't go without a hiccup (hitler  rap).  Today, probably break out in war, certainly break out with thousands of indignant Uni students marching down the street getting upset on the behalf of someone else

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> mel Brooks 
> just sayin'

  I said rarely...I didn't say never!!

----------


## mudbrick

Mysterious thread this one! Glad to hear that you guys do something other than play with your tools all day.. 
We don't drink a huge amount of coffee. 1 a day for me is fine otherwise i get too wired. 
So I must admit we have a pod machine, quite a fancy pod machine in fact because it makes froth as well as just pumping hot water through a little plastic bucket full of coffee  :Smilie: 
We decided to buy it due to the fact instant tastes like crud and isn't worth drinking, and the kids LOVE to have a 'frothy milk' once in a while... Yes they got too used to babychino's from Gloria Jeans so now we can make them at home!! 
The thing the really surprised me the most about this little S22 Caffitaly pod machine is that it makes some dam good coffee! Yes i mean really nice, like now if i ever drink a coffee at a coffee shop i'm usually disappointed and wish i just waited until i got home. 
Agree totally with what was said earlier, the worst cup of coffee you get from a cafe is a steaming hot one that burns the inside of your mouth, Nothing worse!
Just last week i bought a large flat white from a Pizza shop ( alarm bells ringing ) as it was the only place in a little town. Gingerly tasted it and it was 2000 degress C so i left it until we got home. Then i added about 1/3 cup of cold milk to it and it made a decent cup of coffee!!! I've never seen such a grey flat white in my life, no idea what that young chicky babe did to it :Wink:

----------


## phild01

> The thing the really surprised me the most about this little S22 Caffitaly pod machine is that it makes some dam good coffee! Yes i mean really nice, like now if i ever drink a coffee at a coffee shop i'm usually disappointed and wish i just waited until i got home.

  Well, in this thread I wasn't brave enough to say I bought a Caffitaly machine, so admire you for that! The reason I bought it was because I had already tried it using Lavazza pods. Just after buying it, Lavazza stopped supplying, so now stuck with a machine that I haven't found a pod as good :Annoyed:

----------


## mudbrick

So you are looking for good pods for the caffitaly machine? 
Dare I say it the woolworths select ones are not too bad, or MAP or Grinders. Moccona hasn't impressed me. Most brands I've tried taste better below a ten in strength. Most stronger ones have no flavour just taste black to me at least....
How do you like your coffee?

----------


## phild01

> So you are looking for good pods for the caffitaly machine? 
> Dare I say it the woolworths select ones are not too bad, or MAP or Grinders. Moccona hasn't impressed me. Most brands I've tried taste better below a ten in strength. Most stronger ones have no flavour just taste black to me at least....
> How do you like your coffee?

  I know so little about coffee.  The Caffitaly I have dispenses so little in a cup that I tend to think the strongest would be best and then top up the cup with hot water.  Not too impressed with the Gloria Jeans pods.
  I have given up Coke and all soft drinks, being far too sweet.  Make my own now with soda water and Bickfords cordial, much nicer.  But without my daily coke I thought coffee might be worth taking up :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

Hopefully upgraditis hits the pair of you poddies and you move on to something that produces a better cup and that doesn't produce plastic waste to do it.  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> How do you like your coffee?

  Like my women  
Strong and filthy   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Sure I mentioned Turkish somewhere here PG  :Biggrin:

----------


## mudbrick

Phild, now you're really onto something, exactly right that the single shot is waaaaaay to small for a cup of coffee. Don't bother with ye www single button. 
Choose a pod, press the double shot button, then press it again

----------


## OBBob

> Don't bother with ye www single button. 
> Choose a pod, press the double shot button, then press it again

  OMG... I can almost feel Ringtail cringing from here.

----------


## phild01

> Phild, now you're really onto something, exactly right that the single shot is waaaaaay to small for a cup of coffee. Don't bother with ye www single button. 
> Choose a pod, press the double shot button, then press it again

   I read somewhere that you shouldn't continue trying to extract more from the pod after the first shot as it spoils the flavour.

----------


## OBBob

Exactly!

----------


## phild01

Maybe each cup needs two pods...hmmm :Hmmm:

----------


## mudbrick

ah don't be too worried what the book says, give it a shot. 2 or 3 doubles will give you half a mug then assuming you take milk pour it in and you're away  :Smilie: 
The instructions also tell you how to adjust the volume of water delivered with each shot. That's the best way to fix the problem, adjust it up near the max so you get about 150ml hot water with your shot of coffee and i think that little machine might become your new best friend...

----------


## OBBob

A shot should be about 30ml of potent goodness. To that you usually add water or steamed milk (if anything). You shouldn't be expecting a cup of Joe out of a pod machine, for that you need a filter machine or plunger.

----------


## OBBob

> ah don't be too worried what the book says, give it a shot. 2 or 3 doubles will give you half a mug then assuming you take milk pour it in and you're away 
> The instructions also tell you how to adjust the volume of water delivered with each shot. That's the best way to fix the problem, adjust it up near the max so you get about 150ml hot water with your shot of coffee and i think that little machine might become your new best friend...

  Well the main thing is that you enjoy it! Good that you have it worked out in a way that suits you.

----------


## mudbrick

True, the single shot on these machines is 30ml but as phild said it's a useless quantity of coffee, and water. For whatever reason - low pressure, not hot enough, flow pattern etc the single shot doesn't extract all the goodness. Coincidentally everyone i know who drink white coffee from a similar pod machine takes 2 double shots from 1 pod (120ml) then adds whatever on top of that. Our little machine also froths milk so i take the 2 double shots, 3 if i want a mug,,, add some milk then froth on top and relax, for about 20 seconds, before the kids need something! :Brava:  :Roflmao: 
And hey caffitaly pods are apparently bigger than regular so deliver more Joe, LOL.

----------


## ringtail

> OMG... I can almost feel Ringtail cringing from here.

  
Yes. Yes you can

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> OMG... I can almost feel Ringtail cringing from here.

   

> Yes. Yes you can

  
Get a room you two   :Rolleyes:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> 2 double shots from 1 pod

  
Pfft. 
My machine takes one or two pods/pads.    
And can do two cups at once.     
You've been ripped off.      :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens



----------


## OBBob

In defence of Ringtail I've checked FNQ and it turns out they do grow coffee!

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Mmmm...extracted with XXXX.

----------


## OBBob

Mmm... XXXX

----------


## ringtail

Just had a read of their story. Poor buggers did it tough

----------


## OBBob

They have a mini bus... you can do a tour.

----------


## ringtail

> They have a mini bus... you can do a tour.

  Nah, I'll just look at my own coffee trees  :Wink:

----------


## OBBob

> Just had a read of their story. Poor buggers did it tough

  Well I guess that makes sense when the tourism shop in their own airport stocks coffee from Byron Bay.

----------


## ringtail

Yep, them skanky Byron hipsters are everywhere  :Tongue:

----------


## Marc

https://www.facebook.com/BuzzFeedVid...0491919425015/

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Miele CVA6805 Built-In Coffee Machine - 60cm - Coffee Machines - Coffee & Beverage - Kitchen Appliances | Harvey Norman Australia    :Play Ball:

----------


## Marc

Do you know if they make it in pink? ...  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Haha not sure. 
Saw an ad for it on tv earlier and thought I'd look it up and see how much it is....

----------


## Marc

Yes, those super atomic machines tend to be way overpriced for what they do and repairers hate them. Good luck after the warranty expires. 
Then it is back to the Bialetta espresso ha ha.

----------


## ringtail

> https://www.facebook.com/BuzzFeedVid...0491919425015/

  
Nope.

----------


## ringtail

> Miele CVA6805 Built-In Coffee Machine - 60cm - Coffee Machines - Coffee & Beverage - Kitchen Appliances | Harvey Norman Australia

  
God nope

----------


## Marc

> Miele CVA6805 Built-In Coffee Machine - 60cm - Coffee Machines - Coffee & Beverage - Kitchen Appliances | Harvey Norman Australia

  I like this better

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I like this better

  
I don't care what that thing does('nt) do. 
I want one!

----------


## OBBob

I think I see a flux capacitor.

----------


## Marc

AKMA 3000mL | DUTCH-LAB

----------


## OBBob

It's not cheaper than the Miele is it...

----------


## ringtail

> It's not cheaper than the Miele is it...

  I suspect dentists only need apply.  :Tongue:

----------


## Marc

> It's not cheaper than the Miele is it...

  It's a sculpture or a statement of sorts, certainly not an appliance. it means "evil", don't ask me why, doesn't look evil to me.

----------


## pharmaboy2

MArc, how did you go with your different beans? 
built in coffee machines are the devil, so have much in common with "evil". Miele just means you wasted slightly more on permanent junk in your wall than ariston......  :Wink:   
Disclosure: once I was young and ignorant and also thought built in coffee machines were cool

----------


## Marc

Wake up alarm coffee maker    
Pharma ... you say you stopped being young ...  :Smilie:  
Haven't bought any new beans yet.

----------


## ringtail

Wow, the coffee would be soooooo stale in that thing come morning

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Haha don't think I'd want that next to the bed....

----------


## ringtail

Agree

----------


## PlatypusGardens

More info here -> Barisieur â Joshua Renouf  
...well not really....just a bunch of shiny pics. 
WTF you're supposed to keep the milk in a beaker over night?
Is it refrigerated?   :Unsure:   
Looks nice but I can't see it being very practical....You still have to carry it to the kitchen after use and clean it.   :Rofl5:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

From the same hipster designer....   Ally Lamp â Joshua Renouf 
I love this bit  

> hand-held light offering the user the freedom to explore the dark confidently.

   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OBBob

Well this thread had been quiet (has Ringtail really run out of stuff to say)?   :Biggrin:   
Anyway, I found another fine northern product in the kitchen at work.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Yuck  
Was over at a mate's the other day and all he had was that and those cappuchino sachets....  :Unsure:  
One sachet and a teaspoon of the 43 muck in about 3/4 of a cup was passable as a hot drink. 
Sigh....sometimes you have to make do with what's available  :No:

----------


## Marc

You are probably better off with instant coffee than those things.

----------


## ringtail

Or $1 7-11 "coffee" (insert vomit emoji) (admins, we need a vomit emoji please)

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Or $1 7-11 "coffee" (insert vomit emoji) (admins, we need a vomit emoji please)

  
Hmm I thought there used to be one... 
There'this one though  :Yuk:     
And...is this a new one?   :Bubbles:

----------


## Pitto

Nothing wrong with7-11 coffee, 😎

----------


## ringtail

Yeah, I didn't read that. Well I did and shall pretend I didn't.  :Tongue:  
PG, by no means the best one going but better than nothing. Please Admins.  Throwing Up | 12 Emoji That Need to Exist ASAP | POPSUGAR Tech

----------


## Marc

But ringtail, we have one, as distasteful as it may be ... colon puke colon  :Puke:

----------


## Marc

Talking about extreme needs. Say you are in the sticks camping, or in the jungle escaping the local militia, you are craving a coffee and all you have is a small jar of instant some sugar and there is a cow nearby you can squeeze for some milk.
This is what you do. Take your cup and put a spoon of instant, half a spoon of sugar and a couple of drops of water and start beating this up in a paste with that spoon you kept just in case, the more you beat the better. You will end up with a paste the colour of fudge or caramel to what you add hot milk and enjoy something resembling a half decent coffee.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> But ringtail, we have one, as distasteful as it may be ... colon puke colon

  
Ah..I knew it!  
Couldn't find him earlier   :Bubbles:

----------


## MorganGT

> Talking about extreme needs.

   That's what this stuff is for:

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> That's what this stuff is for:

  Yep. Straight over Weet-bix...

----------


## ringtail

> But ringtail, we have one, as distasteful as it may be ... colon puke colon

  Excellent !

----------


## ringtail

:Puke:

----------


## ringtail

Testing.  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> That's what this stuff is for:

  
Gotta get a toob of that stuff!

----------


## OBBob

> Gotta get a toob of that stuff!

  Ringtail brushes his teeth with it!

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Ringtail brushes his teeth with it!

    :Rofl5:   :Rofl5:   :Rofl5:   :Rofl5:

----------


## ringtail

Bwahahahaha. I think it would be best used as gap filler.

----------


## OBBob

> Bwahahahaha. I think it would be best used as gap filler.

  The stuff dentists use is pretty special, I don't think I'd be substituting it with this even if you could find an activator to make it set.   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Look a bit odd getting around the house filling gaps and setting with a uv light  :Biggrin:  . Then again, maybe Marc could do us a bulk buy discount on uv lights and white filler  :Tongue:

----------


## OBBob

I just followed a coffee van that declared on the back window "we are 3% better than our competition" ... LOL.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I just followed a coffee van that declared on the back window "we are 3% better than our competition" ... LOL.

  
That's the go   :Rofl5:

----------


## ringtail

So that's a 3/100 then. Sounds about right for a peddler of filth  :Biggrin:

----------


## OBBob

Gee... and here was me thinking you were going to ask if I got their phone number!   :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

1300shyte  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> So that's a 3/100 then. Sounds about right for a peddler of filth

  
Well it depends how good the competition is.....

----------


## OBBob

> Well it depends how good the competition is.....

  Now you're poking the bear too.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Now you're poking the bear too.

----------


## ringtail

The competition is 0/100 so 3% better is slightly less shyte but still epic amounts of shyte.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> The competition is 0/100

    :Unsure:  
......that makes no sense, but if you say so....    
Anyway   
Deconstructed hipster coffee, anyone?   Deconstructed coffee latest Melbourne hipster trend     :Rolleyes:

----------


## OBBob

LOL ... that's great, now I'll need three cup holders in my car??

----------


## Marc

That is just plain stupid.
No different from Mr Bean that puts a spoonful of instant in his mouth and takes a sip of water and jumps up and down to mix it.  :Doh:

----------


## OBBob

> That is just plain stupid.
> No different from Mr Bean that puts a spoonful of instant in his mouth and takes a sip of water and jumps up and down to mix it.

  Yeah, that's better with Milo.  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> That is just plain stupid.
> No different from Mr Bean that puts a spoonful of instant in his mouth and takes a sip of water and jumps up and down to mix it.

   

> Yeah, that's better with Milo.

----------


## ringtail

> ......that makes no sense, but if you say so....

  Of course it makes sense. If they are stating that they are 3% better then they are open to a mathematical comparison. Sooo, if the competition is at 0/100 or zero % then  3% better is a 3/100. Hardly worth advertising that one is slightly less crap than the competition. Like a pie cart having a sign saying "3% less eyeballs and anuses than our competition"  :Biggrin:

----------


## OBBob

> Of course it makes sense. If they are stating that they are 3% better then they are open to a mathematical comparison. Sooo, if the competition is at 0/100 or zero % then  3% better is a 3/100. Hardly worth advertising that one is slightly less crap than the competition. Like a pie cart having a sign saying "3% less eyeballs and anuses than our competition"

  Is it 3% or is it zero? 3% of zero is still zero!  
Anyway, I take the point was to facilitate discussions like this... it would work really well if I hadn't have forgotten the name of the company!   :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Of course it makes sense. If they are stating that they are 3% better then they are open to a mathematical comparison. Sooo, if the competition is at 0/100 or zero % then  3% better is a 3/100. Hardly worth advertising that one is slightly less crap than the competition. Like a pie cart having a sign saying "3% less eyeballs and anuses than our competition"

   Yeh....but....
Why is the competition 0% though?

----------


## ringtail

Trust me, they are.  :Wink:

----------


## OBBob

> Yeh....but....
> Why is the competition 0% though?

  Because Ringtail hasn't started his coffee business yet, so no one can be better than zero... except the one I saw that was 3%. 
Now I'm confused !

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Trust me, they are.

  
If you say so.....

----------


## ringtail

Lets look at his competition. Other coffee carts, Maccas and 7-11. Nothing to do with me or my coffee. Just facts  :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

After an extraordinary turn down in the quality of my Vittoria coffee, probably due to the fact that my work colleague in charge of buying the coffee bought some ground stuff on sale. It tasted like sawdust and ended up in the bin. 
Quick google found me two roasters in the area, bought a bag from each.
This is the one we are using now. Hennessy Black Diamond Blend | Rainforest Alliance | Hennessy Coffee | RFABlackDiamondBlend - Hennessy Coffee 
The other one from caffe moda will follow soon. Venetian 
By the way, when Caffe Moda did charge the website price of $28, Hennessy advertised price of $36 is baloney since I paid just $25 and an offer of free barista lessons.

----------


## ringtail

> After an extraordinary turn down in the quality of my Vittoria coffee, probably due to the fact that my work colleague in charge of buying the coffee bought some ground stuff on sale. It tasted like sawdust and ended up in the bin. 
> .

  
Yesssssssssss !! The bin it where it should be.  :Wink:  
PM me a postal address Marc and I'll send you some beans to try next time I roast.

----------


## Marc

Oh, wow, sure will, do you roast commercially or just as a hobby?

----------


## ringtail

Nah just hobby. Well, to satisfy my own addiction  :Biggrin: . I couldn't afford to buy roasted beans and they all roast too light for my liking anyway. Frikken hipsters  :Tongue:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

I drank instant coffee today

----------


## ringtail

Oh well. I'm having a cup of tea right now. Lets never mention it again  :Yikes2:

----------


## OBBob

I hope you both added three sugars.

----------


## Marc

When i went to Hennessy and asked about their blends, they made me a coffee with their "platinum" blend but when it was a good coffee it was too light for me, so he offered their heavy duty beans and they proved to be very nice. The coffee comes up thick and chocolaty if that means anything, 
Have yet to try the Venetian from Caffe Moda. 
I remember trying some super dooper beans from a friend of my daughter who sells for $50 a kilo, but it was uneventful. One of those ... what was that again? ha ha.  
What do you use for roasting?

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Nah just hobby. Well, to satisfy my own addiction . I couldn't afford to buy roasted beans and they all roast too light for my liking anyway. Frikken hipsters

  ;D.  
Those dark roasts are designed to get 2 cups of coffee per pour.  Hipsters do standard double shots, and use 50cents of grounds per coffee, so use medium roasts on a ristretto pour- more subtleties, less Nescafé . 
i find all the cheaper roasts, around the $30 mark, have a bit of woody flavour to them - think this is their filler bean coming through.  Maybe I'll have to go full hipster and switch to double ristretto shorts, no sugar

----------


## ringtail

Get your squinty eyes on Pharma. Those hipster roasts would be lucky to get to first crack  :Biggrin:  . Like drinking fermented lemons  :Tongue:

----------


## ringtail

> I hope you both added three sugars.

  Can't remember when we last had sugar in the house.

----------


## lukemc

> Nah just hobby. Well, to satisfy my own addiction . I couldn't afford to buy roasted beans and they all roast too light for my liking anyway. Frikken hipsters

  What do you roast with ringtail? 
Same reason I started roasting  :Smilie:   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## ringtail

I made a drum roaster after building several versions of a KKTO. It's only small ( in the commercial sense) but it does just under 1kg of green if I push it but I normally do 800gm. Still, for under $100 bucks in parts I'm rapt with the results. Absolutely flogs a behmor. No fancy bollocks with it, no thermocouples or any other rubbish.

----------


## lukemc

Sounds great. Perfect size too  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## ringtail

Could always be refined more but it does me fine and no other like it that I've seen.

----------


## woodbe

> Get your squinty eyes on Pharma. Those hipster roasts would be lucky to get to first crack  . Like drinking fermented lemons

  Actually, I've watched hipsters roasting coffee beans, and they definitely made first crack. I think they read the instructions, or maybe they have a food science degree  :Biggrin:

----------


## Sandakan

> I made a drum roaster after building several versions of a KKTO. It's only small ( in the commercial sense) but it does just under 1kg of green if I push it but I normally do 800gm. Still, for under $100 bucks in parts I'm rapt with the results. Absolutely flogs a behmor. No fancy bollocks with it, no thermocouples or any other rubbish.

  Would love to see some photos if you could.

----------


## ringtail

I'll see what I can do  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Sorry for the delay but I've been busy drinking the beans I roasted for Marc  :Tongue:  . Did a new roast tonight Marc. Some "organic blend" . No idea what's in it as it just said " organic blend" on the sack. I had a take away using it and it tasted ok so....we shall see. Anyway, the home made roaster. 
Staeted off with a 20 lt drum. I lit a fire inside it to burn the paint off the outside. Not pretty. Next, in went an old frypan which fitted perfectly and was adjusted to give about 13 lt of total volume withing the drum. 11 -12 lt is best so I'll have a play later on if I could be bothered. Difficult to do within a round drum with another drum rotating inside. The motor is a commodore power window motor mounted on a butchered window regulator. I removed the gearbox from the motor and welded a dog drive I made to the gearbox sprocket. The bean drum is made from a deep fryer basket. The lid is a deep fryer scoop. I used excess bits of SS rod to make hinges and catches. I made up a frameand bolted it to the bottom of the bean cage and then welded the fitting on that mates with the dog drive. A bolt through the lid sits in a piece of copper tube on the side of the drum to give support at both ends of the bean cage. The motor is powered using a AC/DC power supply from jaycar and a PWM to allow for rotation speed adjustment. The heat source is a halogen turbo oven. I keep my eye out for them on special. They can be picked up for about $40. Window motor $15, PWM $25, power supply $30, Bean cage $30, lid $10, drum & frypan free. For cooling the roasted beans I use a bathroom extractor fan mounted in bucket from bunnings.

----------


## Marc

Looks industrial!  :Smilie: 
What's the roasting process in a nutshell?  I know it has to turn round and round, what else is there? Temperature? Time? ventilation  :Hmm:

----------


## ringtail

The 20 lt drum is wrapped with earthwool and the a towel. A silicone ring sits around the lip of the drum to provide the seal for the turbo oven. And the results..

----------


## Marc

Nice!

----------


## ringtail

> Looks industrial! 
> What's the roasting process in a nutshell?  I know it has to turn round and round, what else is there? Temperature? Time? ventilation

  Depends on how anal one wants to get. Guys are sticking thermocouples into the bean mass to track bean temp and trying to ramp things up or down on various time vs temp graphs etc... I keep it as simple as I can. The only variables I have are drum rotation speed and temp. If the temp is too low the beans bake instead of roast so the temp is flatout always. 250C. I preheat the roaster with the empty bean cage turning for 10 minutes. Then pull the bean cage out with vice grips and load the beans. Then insert the bean cage and let it run at about 25 RPM until first crack which is normally about 15 mins. After first crack I increase the rotation a bit and let it go until I hear the first crackles of 2nd crack. Then I pull the bean cage out and dump the beans into the cooler and stir with a whisk.

----------


## ringtail

It would be good if the fan on the turbo oven was adjustable but they seem to do ok with a few tweaks to the blades. There are also tweaks that can be made to the turbo oven to make them cycle much faster - or shorten the "off time" to be more precise.

----------


## OBBob

I guess it's about the flavour but ordering a skinny Cappuccino with two sugars seems somewhat nonsensical.   :Biggrin:

----------


## Marc

250C is a lot of heat!

----------


## PlatypusGardens



----------


## ringtail

> 

   :Puke:

----------


## ringtail

> 250C is a lot of heat!

  Not in the coffee roasting world. Some push up towards 300

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Yes I thought of you when I saw that poster, ringtail. 
Funny thing is, some stores were advertising $2 coffee and others $1
Maybe it had to do with the size of the cup....

----------


## ringtail

Or maybe the $2 version came with a spew bucket. With the $1 one just spews on the floor or counter

----------


## Marc

I've gone naked ... no no not striking, got myself a naked portafilter with a triple filter basket  Bottomless portafilter inc triple filter basket - Portafilters | Coffee Parts 
I am using that handle all the time, it's great, I can see what is working and gives me a bit more headroom for the bigger cups, my machine is built for short italian guys ...  :Smilie:  
However I see little difference between the double and this 'triple'. Yes it has a more square shoulder without any taper, so I can see a marginal larger volume but certainly not 50% more ... am I missing something?

----------


## MorganGT

> However I see little difference between the double and this 'triple'. Yes it has a more square shoulder without any taper, so I can see a marginal larger volume but certainly not 50% more ... am I missing something?

  Because the amount (by weight) of grounds that fit in any particular basket varies due to differences in grind settings (particle size) and tamping force, as you use bigger and bigger baskets they don't so much have a specific size in grams as have a widening range of capacity in grams. The more common double baskets for a lot of machines are rated at 12g or a slightly deeper 14g. Once you go to deeper baskets, often what one manufacturer or supplier describes as an 18g basket is identical in capacity to another one described as 23g (or even bigger). So once you go to deeper baskets you find that what one person may regard as a 'triple' basket is another person's 'double', since there is no generally agreed-upon 'standard' for how the capacity of a basket is measured or described.

----------


## Marc

Mm I see, so it's the capacity in grams but it depends on the grind so really it should be described in cc not in grams, unless the coffee grind weight is standardised ... found this site with so many different basket.    FILTER BASKETS :: COFFEE MACHINE PARTS :: Bombora Coffee & Water Supplies 
You are right that basket I bought as triple is probably 2.3 of the one I have ... anyway I am still happy with it. May be I have to buy a 22 grams one and see if it is actually bigger. 
Should ring coffee parts for a 22g one   Search results for: 'filter baskets' 
Wow not cheap, do you have one laying around?   :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

Don't get caught up in the numbers. It's what's in the cup that counts. Below is my all time fave vid. Enjoy.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sK7pnwQ8YpA

----------


## OBBob

Mm... Monday morning and airport coffee again.

----------


## OBBob

Such a shame this thread has been quiet ... here's an article to give it a lift (he he).    Stiff Bull herbal coffee: Will it give you âan erection with every cupâ?

----------


## ringtail

Well I am about to make a new roaster so that may liven things up a bit. Just need the time to do it after I cobble a few bits together.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Such a shame this thread has been quiet ... here's an article to give it a lift (he he).    Stiff Bull herbal coffee: Will it give you â€˜an erection with every cupâ€™?

     :Rofl5:

----------


## OBBob

Well you've done it again PG ... no more AC advice (or random weather chat) for anyone.  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

:Handball:

----------


## Marc

Talking about coffee ... my wife asked me to make her a long black, and I have never made one, always latte of cappuccino ... so anyway, nothing to it right? Just coffee with no milk ... just to be on the safe side I looked it up on you tube ... yes my wife was in no hurry. So long black is when you add the hot water to the cup _before_ you pour the espresso, and "americano"  is when you add the water on top of the shot and ruin the crema in the process of course that is why american coffee stinks.  
But then I got into all the other ways to make coffee ... macchiato for example. Italian for stained, even when on you tube they translate it as 'marked' (who cares right?) so macchiato, some do it by adding just a spoonful of milk froth on top, other by adding a shot of frothed milk. Not the same ... anyway ... then there is the latte macchiato, so this is the other way around. You froth the milk, a lot of it, and add a shot of espresso to the milk. Neve had one of those but I like macchiato with a shot of milk.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

At home I always have just....black coffee, but when I get a coffee shop or "machine" coffee, I go for cappuchino with at least one extra shot.   :Smilie:

----------


## MorganGT

I'm a complete heathen, I've got a proper commercial grade espresso machine and grinder at home but 99% of the time I end up using its hot water tap to make my coffee using instant coffee from Aldi. 
I spend way too much time with my job around overly enthusiastic coffee hipsters and generally have no interest in making 'proper' coffee when I get home, and the grinder's too noisy to use at 5:30 in the morning.

----------


## Marc

There is a say in spanish that translated would be like ... in the blacksmith's house, there are wooden knifes ...  :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Ah well it's like the mechanic's car, the landscaper's garden and the builder's house......   :Wink:

----------


## OBBob

I like long macchiatos, which are actually quite short.   :Biggrin:

----------


## seriph1

This is my idea of a coffee maker .... trying to source something similar that won't break the bank.

----------


## Marc

that is a strange contraption .. how does it work? Where does the coffee grind go?

----------


## seriph1

until a few moments ago I didn't know, but was intrigued ...  The Genuine Balancing Siphon Coffee Maker - Hammacher Schlemmer

----------


## seriph1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEcZHZ9bP8

----------


## Marc

Mm ... cool, there is another simpler version without the balancing act  :Smilie:

----------


## seriph1

> Mm ... cool, there is another simpler version without the balancing act

  no fun in that  :Biggrin:  
I'm ordering one then going to modify it to be even more outrageous

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Haha that's funny.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

I just bought a new coffee maker  :Biggrin:    
Been meaning to get one for ages....years even.
One of those things I always forget to look for, and when I do remember, I can never find one. 
Got this one from Myers, it's the 6 cups size for $55.    :Cool:   
Could probably get it cheaper elsewhere or online....
.....every time I order something online I either get a broken one, it's out of stock or I don't get my order at all.  
And I always forget to chase it up    :Sigh:   
which reminds me I still haven't got those plasma cutting tips from that everlast mob.  
hmmmm

----------


## ringtail

Congratulations on your coffee coloured beverage maker  :Tongue:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Congratulations on your coffee coloured beverage maker

  
Won't be coffee coloured at the strength I like to make it   :Runaway:

----------


## ringtail

Stand a spoon up in it eh. Turkish on roids

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Plus it has a funny cartoon dude on it      
....bet yours doesn't....      :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

No, no it doesn't.  :Frown:

----------


## OBBob

Been using the minipresso a bit lately, nifty thing.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Well. 
I got me a cheap grinder....         
.....and stared blankly at the selection of beans available....realised I know nothing about coffee.... grabbed these ones.     
Not too bad actually.
And that was a first.....grinding my own beans.... 
Somewhat satisfying and smells nice.  
Just winged it and 1/4 cup of whole beans pretty much fills the strainer part of the coffee cooker when ground, so that worked out well.         :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

Your moccapot looks like it's ready for take off  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Yeh it's funny how red hot often looks purple in photos....

----------


## ringtail

Notice how I've said nothing about your "grinder" of choice of beans. Getting mellow in my old age.  :Biggrin:

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Notice how I've said nothing about your "grinder" of choice of beans. Getting mellow in my old age.

  Mellow. Like International Roast.

----------


## ringtail

> Mellow. Like International Roast.

  Bwahahhaha.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Notice how I've said nothing about your "grinder" of choice of beans. Getting mellow in my old age.

  I was beginning to wonder if someone had hacked your account.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
At least you said that you didn't say anything, which is the next best thing I suppose.
We all know you're sitting there rolling your eyes and no matter what anyone does, it won't be as good as what you do.   :Wink:    
Ahem  
Anyway  
All (or at least some) jokes aside.... any recommendation for a readily available decent run-of-the-mill bean would be appreciated.
Doesn't have to be spewed/shat out by a monkey or anything fancy like that.
As long as it's rich and strong.  
Don't knock my "grinder".......Harvey Norman's finest at $39.99    :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

> We all know you're sitting there rolling your eyes and no matter what anyone does, it won't be as good as what you do.

  
No, not true. Given up on that. I let sleeping dogs lie now. Those that don't want to be educated can stay ignorant as ignorance is bliss, apparently.  :Wink:  
But since you asked, never, ever, ever buy beans from a supermarket. Well, you can if you like but they're rancid @@@@@ "freshly roasted " a year ago. 
One can mail order roasted beans from heaps of places like Bean Green, My Cuppa, Noego. However, if you're moving to the sunny coast there are heaps of roasters there. Just jump online and have a gander bit make sure you look at beans roasted to suit your stovetop jigger ( lighter roast than espresso). 
Oh, your "grinder" is not a grinder. It's a chopper  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

Woodmans Axe in Gordon St gets the nod. Just tell them what you want and what method you're using and they should have somethng to suit.

----------


## pharmaboy2

PG, comment about grinder follows, read at own risk 
ive had one as well many moons ago, as you will also find, you get powder in one part, and course grinds in the corners unless you shake it while grinding (note "grinding" used loosely, and nothing to do with the grindR on your phone).  This will make your coffee sometimes good, sometimes great, sometimes Sh ..... it will be. 
anyone that recommends a grinder to you is doing so out of concern for your coffee and patience.  You don't need a great one for a stovetop.  Anything that has an adjustable burr will be fine. 
its about consistency

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> No, not true. Given up on that. I let sleeping dogs lie now. Those that don't want to be educated can stay ignorant as ignorance is bliss, apparently.

  Just stirring  :Stirthepot:       

> Oh, your "grinder" is not a grinder. It's a chopper

  I know, it even says on it.....multi use or something like that.
coffee, herbs, spices   :Rofl5:    

> Woodmans Axe in Gordon St gets the nod. Just tell them what you want and what method you're using and they should have somethng to suit.

  Of course!
Totally forgot about them.
Have had coffee from there before.
A bit of a hipster joint but not too bad.
Will check them out.     

> you get powder in one part, and course grinds in the corners unless you shake it while grinding

  Dunno about that.
seems to produce a nice, even [s]grind[/s] um....I mean hack/chop.....  :Unsure:       

> anyone that recommends a grinder to you is doing so out of concern for your coffee and patience.

  
I know    :Wink:

----------


## ringtail

> Just stirring

  I figured. But I have given up and don't bother those that don't want to go to the next level. Sort of like the guy that reckons Ryobi tools are great. Nod, and walk away  :Biggrin:  
Those hipsters should be able to sort you out. But you are walking a slippery slope PG. Experimenting with good beans is where it all starts.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> Sort of like the guy that reckons Ryobi tools are great. Nod, and walk away

  Yep haha   :Tiptoe:    

> you are walking a slippery slope PG. Experimenting with good beans is where it all starts.

  It's all good.
Am making a few changes at the moment anyway.
Been going bike riding in the mornings (5-6K), am back on the green brekkie smoothies (Got a NutriBullet this time) and mucking around with the coffee.   
Still having the odd beer though, but not 10+ a day.   :Smilie:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

:Death:  https://www.deathwishcoffee.com/coll...th-wish-coffee  :Death:

----------


## lukemc

My new roaster setup. Really enjoying using it. The gas means changes reflect really quickly and it's easy to control     
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Now there's a guy who's serious about his coffee  :Shock:   
It's.....hooked up to a computer....    :Unsure:

----------


## martrix

awesome. How much can it do at once?

----------


## lukemc

It's a 1kg roaster. I load 1.2 and usually end up with an even 1 once roasted.   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Jon

> Sort of like the guy that reckons Ryobi tools are great. Nod, and walk away

  Are you bagging me, my Ryobi drill and my Aldi pod machine in the one post?   :Shock: 
And I am slightly embarrassed by both but our toys must remain within our budgets

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Now there's a guy who's serious about his coffee   
> It's.....hooked up to a computer....

  That's to run the roaster....without the computer, they are just a very dumb oven.

----------


## ringtail

> It's a 1kg roaster. I load 1.2 and usually end up with an even 1 once roasted.   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  I never get over how huge and expensive they are for 1kg. I normally run 800g in mine but I can push 1kg and a long roast time. My roaster takes up as much room as your laptop though and cost me under $100 to build.

----------


## ringtail

> Are you bagging me, my Ryobi drill and my Aldi pod machine in the one post?  
> And I am slightly embarrassed by both but our toys must remain within our budgets

  Yep, but not on purpose. Just a happy coincidence I guess  :Biggrin:

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Well...contrary to advice given both here and elsewhere..... 
....a finer grind makes a stronger cup of coffee with that little stovetop jigger.

----------


## David.Elliott

So... after week 3 of using our new   https://www.sunbeam.com.au/Sunbeam-T...e-Grinder.aspx 
It's great, mainly because the repeatability is there with the semi auto espresso function that is set to push through just the right amount of water...the part I found hardest to get consistent with our previous...

----------


## ringtail

> Well...contrary to advice given both here and elsewhere..... 
> ....a finer grind makes a stronger cup of coffee with that little stovetop jigger.

  Well of course it will. But it may not be stronger as such, just meatier. Overextracted if one uses a espresso machine. Blacker if using stovetop  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> So... after week 3 of using our new   https://www.sunbeam.com.au/Sunbeam-T...e-Grinder.aspx 
> It's great, mainly because the repeatability is there with the semi auto espresso function that is set to push through just the right amount of water...the part I found hardest to get consistent with our previous...

  Well done. Certainly a step in the right direction although there are plenty of Italian machines around for the same dollars. The thing that really concerns me with the sunbeams, all sunbeams, is the thermoblocks. They were crap years ago and are just as prone to blockages and scale now. You must be ultra anal with your maintenance schedule but even then be prepared for some thermoblock issues, particularly on the steam side. What beans are you using ?

----------


## OBBob

> Well...contrary to advice given both here and elsewhere..... 
> ....a finer grind makes a stronger cup of coffee with that little stovetop jigger.

  I agree.... It's so confusing. International Roast is way finer than blend 43 yet the strength is similar?!  :eek:    
Bahahaha...

----------


## David.Elliott

Right now we're trying some fair trade stuff, missus likes them and I don't mind 'em. Quite mellow without being weak. I like a double shot, she likes a single... 
There's a water softener cartridge in line, which I'm keeping an eye on. It sits in the water reservoir. 
The book is light on with detail for maintenance. In fact whilst the machine has a "Cleaning" button the book really does not tell me much about that... 
 I'd certainly appreciate your input Ringtail...

----------


## lukemc

> I never get over how huge and expensive they are for 1kg. I normally run 800g in mine but I can push 1kg and a long roast time. My roaster takes up as much room as your laptop though and cost me under $100 to build.

  Agreed. I used to use the breadmaker/heat gun and got close to 750gms. Dollar for dollar it was a much better proposition!!

----------


## ringtail

> Right now we're trying some fair trade stuff, missus likes them and I don't mind 'em. Quite mellow without being weak. I like a double shot, she likes a single... 
> There's a water softener cartridge in line, which I'm keeping an eye on. It sits in the water reservoir. 
> The book is light on with detail for maintenance. In fact whilst the machine has a "Cleaning" button the book really does not tell me much about that... 
>  I'd certainly appreciate your input Ringtail...

  Instead of my input I'll give you my experiences, which I guess is input. I went through 3  sunbeam 6910's in under 12 months. One had a PCB crap itself and the others had steam thermoblock failures. So I gave up completely on appliance type machines and just went italian. Problem solved. Despite being good mates with the 6910 guru (who I gave my machine to which he fixed and rehomed) I decided it was a bad road to persist with. I was involved with the testing of the 7000 and it was a vast improvement and capable of making a coffee better than most cafes provided the beans were good and the usual rules followed. But would it last ? Nope. Same issues but not as terminal. Their latest design appears to be mutton dressed as lamb. The "classic E61" styling is not a styling feature at all. Real E61 group heads are a thing of beauty and engineering excellence topped only by lever machines for their extractions IMO. The sunbeam group head is just the same old same old from the 7000 it would appear and would therefore suffer the same fate. It does have a fancy lever to turn the pump on though. Worn collars and blocked steam thermoblocks go together like jatz and dip on the sunbeams. Biggest cause with the collar wear is overdosing and over tightening the PF. You need to do the 5 cent piece test to get your dosing right. Have a google on that and once you get your dosing technique right stick to it. Water quality needs to be perfect otherwise you WILL have thermoblock issues and AFAIK there is no warranty if you have scale blockages. And since no water is perfect, you will have thermoblock issues. Don't get all depressed about owning one though. Use it as a stepping stone for upgraditis  :Biggrin:  . It's also better to invest in a quality grinder and use quality beans before upgrading machines for both are more important than the espresso machine. As far as beans go, buy direct from a roaster. They all mail order. My Cuppa would be my first pick for buying roasted beans. Needless to say, anything from a supermarket is rubbish as is most stuff on the shelf at most cafes. Specialty roasters are what you need to find, not the mass volume companies that are just in it for the money.

----------


## r3nov8or

> I agree.... It's so confusing. International Roast is way finer than blend 43 yet the strength is similar?!  :eek:    
> Bahahaha...

  It waaasss confusing until I found Moccona Classic Medium Roast. One and a half teaspoons, black. MmmmmMmmmm

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Water quality is king. We've had two consumer machines in the last decade. First was a simple breville manual thermoblock. It died after the block seal sprung a leak at the six year mark. The second is a Sunbeam manual thermoblock. It's still punting along despite my best efforts. Water supply is rain water. 
If you ever want a new machine and the boss won't play, pack the grind hard and pop the machine...works eventually!!

----------


## ringtail

> If you ever want a new machine and the boss won't play, pack the grind hard and pop the machine...works eventually!!

   :Wink:  :Wink:  :Biggrin:

----------


## pharmaboy2

I've recommended a few 6910's for friends.  None have survived for more than a couple of years without a failure. - mostly terminal.  Make good coffee, just typical consumer gadget quality - the iPhone generation..... 
italian HX machines - pretty much all parts are std and replaceable.

----------


## ringtail

> italian HX machines - pretty much all parts are std and replaceable.

  
HX, boiler, dual boiler, as long as it's a prosumer machine it's all good. I just replaced all the valves in the E61 group head the other day for the first time since buying the machine. I couldn't ignore the crunchiness any longer  :Biggrin:

----------


## David.Elliott

Hey Ringtail,
at the risk of showing my ignorance in widescreen glorious technicolour...5c test?

----------


## ringtail

Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns 
Have a wander through here and also google 5 cent test. Pay attention to anything written  by AM, A_M, Angermanagement. All the same dude and the absolute guru on these machines.

----------


## mudbrick

Hello all, reviving this thread as I need some help.
cant believe it's been 6 months since the last post. 
Im getting sick of pod coffee, I'm sure you will understand!
So please recommend which coffee machine to buy next. 
My wish list is - must grind beans, deliver Nice espresso and can be adjusted
in various ways ie temp, amount of coffee in shot, volume of water. Must froth milk.
prefer not to have steam blasting around the kitchen as I've got kids, but they're smart kids and generally stay away from hot things. Oh and under $1000.  
Am I asking too much?

----------


## ringtail

Yes, you're asking too much. For $10k you can get a super auto machine that does everything you want except the "nice espresso" bit. Seriously, just buy take aways

----------


## phild01

So not much between a capsule machine and something that costs less than 10K, let alone 1K!

----------


## woodbe

For less than $1k: 
1) Aeropress $50 approx
2) Controllable kettle like the Breville Smart $169
3) Coffee Grinder Breville BCG820 Pro $200-250 
Also try pour-over, like this: https://marketlane.com.au/brew-pour-over-filter

----------


## mudbrick

Hmmm ok, so what's wrong with a machine like this breville?
where does it fall short? These are about 650

----------


## pharmaboy2

> Hmmm ok, so what's wrong with a machine like this breville?
> where does it fall short? These are about 650

  One of the many sunbeams I assume - they are fine, and if looked after will last a few years. On coffeesnobs is the best place to get an idea on the mid market machine and combos.   They are mass manufactured and designed to make it through the warranty period (just). 
this area of the market has changed so much it's not funny, it used to be mokita combi, lelit or Silvia only - now the Japanese have got into it, its all over the place. Up to date info on coffeesnobs

----------


## mudbrick

It's a Breville barista plus. I've never drunk a coffee from one so don't know the quality of machine or the 
coffee but it looks like it does what I would need. ( YouTube has several videos of it in use though )
Trouble is pharmaboy I think you are right, it's likely to be a dead man walking after 3 years or so.
ill check coffee snobs thanks.

----------


## OBBob

> Yes, you're asking too much. For $10k you can get a super auto machine that does everything you want except the "nice espresso" bit. Seriously, just buy take aways

  I thought you of all people would have an interest in encouraging consumers away from pods and over to using fresh, quality beans.

----------


## ringtail

Haha. I encourage people to buy and strive for quality. And on that note, no breville or sunbeam has a hope in hell of filling that brief. They are just rubbish. If you're exceptionally lucky you might get 1 year of fault free service. Then it's no mans land. Take your gorilla and put it towards something much better that will last and is fully serviceable and rebuildable.

----------


## sol381

All youll get on my site mate is instant coffee. Made with love tho.

----------


## mudbrick

I also like a good serviceable machine be it a car, drill, coffee machine or whatever.
So feel free to recommend one of those instead. Keep in mind it will only be needed to make 2 nice cups 
a'coffee a day most days. Occasionally it might need to make 10 but that's only Christmas etc.
Ill so the cost benefit analysis and see where we end up :Wink: !

----------


## pharmaboy2

> My wish list is - must grind beans, deliver Nice espresso and can be adjusted
> in various ways ie temp, amount of coffee in shot, volume of water. Must froth milk.
> prefer not to have steam blasting around the kitchen as I've got kids, but they're smart kids and generally stay away from hot things. Oh and under $1000.  
> Am I asking too much?

  Ok, generally there is a lot to be said for a seperate grinder - the beans get very warm in those combo machines, though I had a mokita combi for a long time and I could get better flat whites out it than probably 95% of cost free shops (not that that's saying a lot) 
for grinder, go the breville $150 burr, it's good enough for most tasks. 
as adjusting temp, offer in shot, water - all of these things are part of basic design and barista.  Auto machines are designed for idiots who don't care .  Temp is given, volume is up to you and your grind. 
if you have concerns about a child scolding themselves with an espresso machine, you have far bigger problems , deal with them first and forget the coffee machine. 
buy good beans - never spend less than $35 a kilo. 
under a $1000 is going to be the best machine of this week from sunbeam/breville according to coffeesnobs - there are people there that keep abreast of this part of the market, but it's easier to keep a seperate grinder for the $70 extra. 
for a proper hx machine, your budget needed to be $2400 to get started  (basic machine. $1900, basic grinder $500). There is other stuff between but not for milk based drinkers - all the ones below that price point make great shots, but you have to cycle the boiler from shot making to frothing and wait 2 minutes before frothing (like Silvia and Mikita combi, vb piccolo etc)

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Spend good coin on the grinder. Our Sunbeam grinder cost more than the machine we use which is also a Sunbeam. Em9000? Grinder is OK, machine is saved by grinder. Take neither as a recommendation but the combination still makes effective coffee. Most grinders make an awful mess so if not making a mess is important then buy take aways.  
Next machine will have proper commercial group head but otherwise all good. Next grinder will not have rotary feeder (way too easy to clog) under the burr grinder if I can help it.  
My Indian tiger Mountain beans cost $30 per kilo. So my lesson here is don't pay stupid city prices for roasted beans.

----------


## Marc

I don't know why this disparaging of Sunbeam machines. 
I had a 6910 and EMO 440 for years and then passed it on to my daughter who had it for a few more years, took it for service and cleaning and still going strong. 
My other daughter had a 6910 and EMO440 won at a contest at Gloria Jean 5 years ago and managed to kill the machine by using it every day several times a day for 5 years and not cleaning it ever. 
I bought a EM7000 with EM0700 grinder as a replacement to the one I gave away to use at home and it works faultlessly. The grinder is a bit temperamental and unresponsive to small changes but for a first machine I don't think you can go wrong. Sure, buying semi commercial Italian machines for $2000 up will give you a better machine. If you buy a La Marzzorco or a Spazziale or a Gaggia you surely have a better machine. But it is like comparing a Toyota Corolla with an Alfa Romeo or a Lotus.  
I also have a commercial machine and grinder at our holiday house, but such is not for everyone. Not everyone has the space required by a large machine and grinder not to mention the clearance under the top cabinets to fit it, a 20A powerpoint the time to warm it up, the consistency in cleaning and scaling, a special water line with a special filter at $100 a cartridge, Large wastage of coffee grind if you have a doser and so on and so forth. Sure can't compare the Rossi grinder with the Sunbeam. The precision of smallest changes in the grind, the consistency in the extraction on the Carimali the easy of dishing out 4 coffee at the same time. 
I say that for home use Sunbeam latest model is the way to go.
I agree with Silent that all coffee machines with separate grinder will make a mess. Inevitable, but it is a mess that is very easy to clean up. Make a habit of it and it will remain clean. A bit like a drop saw or a planer or thicknesser really.
Having said all that, today i wouldn't recommend a EM6910 anymore. This are older models and they are selling the last ones at discounted prices and some of them seem to fail out of the box. Buy the latest manual models Like EM7000 and whatever you do don't buy automatic.

----------


## ringtail

> All youll get on my site mate is instant coffee. Made with love tho.

  Drive & buy. Happy days. Just need to find the decent shop that's nearest to site.

----------


## ringtail

Marc, you have been extremely lucky with your appliances. Most just don't go the distance. A mate of mine takes dead ones and make working ones out the dregs and gifts them people like mens sheds etc... Tis where mine ended up.  
However, for 2 cups of coffee a day a appliance ( as opposed to a machine) is going to be ok. Just don't expect to last or be awesome. I do at least 8 doubles a day, every day so for me, a prosumer machine makes sense. Buying those coffees would cost me the best part of $40 per day. So spending $4.5k on my set up is nothing compared to spending $14 k per year on take away sh!te. Horses for courses. I would ( and did) kill an appliance within 6 months.

----------


## Marc

My daughter, the one that killed her machine in 5 years, bought a second one another 6910 with grinder in a pack they sell for $499. Did not work out of the box. Absolute rubbish. The machine didn't work at all and the grinder was impossible to use, making super coarse grind and there was no way to adjust  the cutter like the newer grinder. 
They have now bought a 7000 and 700 grinder and all is good again.

----------


## ringtail

You can get shims for the sunbeam grinders, from sunbeam. They acknowledge they have a problem of not grinding anywhere near fine enough for espresso so they supply washers that go under the bottom burr.

----------


## DavoSyd

so we've got a close to 15 year old Breville Café Roma, still going strong;   
but we have the Rancilio Rocky grinder   
the grinder was a great investment ($450) and means our beans are fresh ground before every brew! 
we only just upgraded to a 500g tamper, and even though wifey is skeptical, I reckon stronger tamper makes it taste better (at least when I make it, lol!)...

----------


## ringtail

Listen to your wife

----------


## Marc

A hydraulic tamper would be even better  :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

No

----------


## Marc

I mean to make coffee disk for target practice  :Smilie:

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> I mean to make coffee disk for target practice

  Frisbee!  
Communion wafer?

----------


## mudbrick

> A hydraulic tamper would be even better

   LOL!
 Apply enough pressure you could end up making diamonds rather than cappuccino...

----------


## mudbrick

> so we've got a close to 15 year old Breville Café Roma, still going strong;   
> but we have the Rancilio Rocky grinder   
> the grinder was a great investment ($450) and means our beans are fresh ground before every brew! 
> we only just upgraded to a 500g tamper, and even though wifey is skeptical, I reckon stronger tamper makes it taste better (at least when I make it, lol!)...

  This. This is why I like the manual machines with the in built grinder. If and when it becomes apparent that the grinder is rubbish you can buy a seperate grinder for 10 million dollars ( give or take ) and use those fancy grounds instead of the inbuilt grinder..  :Wink:   we could do without an extra appliance on the bench top.

----------


## ringtail

Ok, lets get one thing clear. The grinder is the MOST important part of the equation. If you're not spending $450 minimum +++ on a grinder you're no where near the ballpark. Of course, I'm talking the real game here, not the appliance game. And both are fine but one is definitely nowhere near the other. If you're in the appliance market just buy whatever is cheapest because none are good.

----------

