# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  Quitters

## PlatypusGardens

Just checked my Quit Smoking app.....5 months and 1 day now!  :Biggrin:  
......And that's over 4000 ciggies not smoked and the same amount of $$$ saved  :Shock:    
Any other quitters out there?

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## Marc

Wow, $4000 ... you are on your way to a new Hypertherm Powermax 45. All you need to do is keep on buying imaginary smokes by putting the money in a steel box. When it is full, you have your new cutter ...  :Smilie:  
I quit many things, but smoking is not one of them.

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## phild01

Our taxes will go up, good going though :2thumbsup:

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## PlatypusGardens

If I could smoke 1-3 a day I'd quite happily do that, but that never seemed to work  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   
Say, one with morning coffee and a couple in the afternoon with beer.....

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## sol381

Well done mate.. Never smoked. Disgusting habit. Burns a hole in your lungs and your wallet.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Disgusting habit. 
> Burns a hole in your lungs and your wallet.

  Yes and yes

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## Marc

> If I could smoke 1-3 a day I'd quite happily do that, but that never seemed to work   
> Say, one with morning coffee and a couple in the afternoon with beer.....

   :Whatonearth:  So you quit or you didn't? Do you mean you _reduced_​ you smoking ? Suppose still a good achievement.

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## dmac

Hey, 
I've been of the smokes since Feb this year after 30+ years of smoking. Hardest thing I have ever done but never going back.
Just smelling them now disgusts me. 
Good on you PG, Cheers to the new found wealth. 
Dave.

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## PlatypusGardens

> So you quit or you didn't?

  ...yes I quit  
cold turkey
no gum
no patches
no mints
no spray
no nothing  
I said* I WISH I could smoke 1-3 a day* but I tried that and it never works.  
I have not had a single puff of a cigarette or anything else in 5 months.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Hey, 
> I've been of the smokes since Feb this year after 30+ years of smoking. Hardest thing I have ever done but never going back.
> Just smelling them now disgusts me. 
> Good on you PG, Cheers to the new found wealth. 
> Dave.

  
Cheers, yeh I'm loving it, even though I still "feel like one" every now and then.  
I like the smell of them though.   :Unsure:    
I would say I did 20-odd years of smoking 20-30/day.   :Sigh:

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## Marc

Oh I get it, you would smoke 1 or 3 if you could stop at that so you must quit completely .... aaaaaaaaah
Good for you PG.
So you did quit 'like a bandaid' right offfff 
New Hypertherm coming up !!!  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Good on ya PG & dmac. I must get on that train too.

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## SabreOne

Yes, quit after realising I had smoked for over half my life, that was near three years ago. 
Could easily go back, but not keen to waste the three years of effort. 
Well done, and rejoice in your achievement.

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## chrisp

> Just checked my Quit Smoking app.....5 months and 1 day now!  
> ......And that's over 4000 ciggies not smoked and the same amount of $$$ saved

  Well done! Very impressive.  :2thumbsup:

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## Marc

A dollar a smoke? Is that what ciggies cost?

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## cyclic

I gave them up when they started getting too expensive.
They were 45 cents a packet.
The year was 1981.

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## r3nov8or

I gave up when a pack was $6. Should I feel a little ripped off?  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Well done ALL quitters
Coffin nails are what they are called for a reason

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## barnes

Well done. I have quit 9 years ago after smoking 27 years. That was probably the wisest thing I have ever done after quitting drinking.  :Smilie:

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## Marc

In 1988 I was negotiating with an italian guy that owned a cigaret vending machine run. He used to service them on his bike, a red Guzzi. He was a nice guy, a bit eccentric.
It was then a profitable venture and I was deciding if I would get into it or not. The packets sold for $4 if my memory serves me right and the margin was substantial particularly if you bought them in Queensland. 
One day I was in the front yard looking at the intersection up the road when I heard a mighty crash and something red flying high up in the air and coming down. I walked to the intersection only to find my friend stone dead next to his bike, blood coming out of his ear. 
There is a roundabout at that intersection now and I never considered a cigaret vending machine again. 
I quit I suppose?  :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

> A dollar a smoke? Is that what ciggies cost?

  
Yep

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## phild01

> ... particularly if you bought them in Queensland.

  I remember the Qld cig runs.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Yes, quit after realising I had smoked for over half my life

  
Scary, isn't it....

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## Marc

My dad smoked from the day he got in the army at age 18 to the day he passed away at age 87, 20 smokes a day. Died of melanoma.

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## chrisp

> My dad smoked from the day he got in the army at age 18 to the day he passed away at age 87, 20 smokes a day. Died of melanoma.

  Wow!  I just calculated how much that would add up to using today's prices, $500,000!

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## OBBob

Good work PG ... you can probably smell the welding fumes better now.  :Smilie:

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## SabreOne

Absolutely scared the **** out of me, decided if I wanted to be around long term, I needed to change something.

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## Marc

> Wow!  I just calculated how much that would add up to using today's prices, $500,000!

  Yes, impressive, however I don't think you can compare today's highly punitive Australian prices with Europe 1940 and later. if a pack of smokes is $20 today, when I went to school and attempted unsuccessfully to smoke a pack was the equivalent of $3 or may be $5 in todays money.

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## PlatypusGardens

:Alpacacall:  6 months!  :Cool:   
Wow....that's gone quick  :Shock:

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## chrisp

:2thumbsup:

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## PlatypusGardens

Should celebrate the milestone with a cigar....no?   :Rofl5:

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## r3nov8or

No! 
Should mention that I haven't had a smoke since Oct 1997. Well, I may have had one at my brother's bucks night the following April, but I can't remember and neither could anyone I asked  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Nice one PG

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## PlatypusGardens

Now I just need to work on reducing the beer consumption _*looks at growing belly*_   :Sigh:

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## ringtail

We all need our vices mate.  :Biggrin:  Next you'll be on the kale smoothies  :Tongue:

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## Bros

> 6 months!   
> Wow....that's gone quick

  Do you still crave for them? I have spoken to people who have smoke for long time and some say the craving never goes others when they stop that's it no cravings.

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## PlatypusGardens

I wouldn't say I have cravings, no.
Never really did this time, to be honest. 
I do think from time to time that "it would be nice" ....but that usually passes pretty quickly.   :Smilie:

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## r3nov8or

Cravings. Mine were frequent at the start and waned with less intensity as time went on. But I remember, many many years after giving up, thinking "Now, I'll just have a smoke before I go in...", and then "wtf! What just happened!". Weird. Everyone's different (and thank goodness for that!)  :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

I'm still clean   :Biggrin:

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## r3nov8or

But do you have the money in the bank?  :Smilie:  
(I gave up 19 years ago, and I don't  :Frown:  ) (Better add a smile for not having smoked for 19 years  :Smilie:  ) (But I'm 15kg heavier  :Frown:  )

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## PlatypusGardens

> But do you have the money in the bank?

  there is a separate account where the money goes.
It gets spent when needed though   

> I'm 15kg heavier

  Yes that is the downside which I'm battling with at the moment.  
Being a beer monster doesn't help either  :Rofl5:

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## joynz

Better a bit heavier than dead!

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## ringtail

Well these days being overweight is just as bad as smoking. All manner of diseases awaits the hefty along with some of the good old ones like heart attack & stroke

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## Bros

> Well these days being overweight is just as bad as smoking. All manner of diseases awaits the hefty along with some of the good old ones like heart attack & stroke

  I've lost a lot of workmates, friends and relatives mostly to cancer two were strokes and none of them were over 90 kg and surprisingly none from heart attack.  
I even had a friend who died of lung cancer who never smoked in his life and kept himself physically fit. 
The jury is still out on the weight unlike smoking.

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## METRIX

Good on you PG, it's never to late to give up, well actually it can be too late, but better earlier than later. 
My mate works in the respiratory industry, he said if you want a reason to give up, take a visit to the respiratory ward in the hospital, see all the poor souls who can't breath on their own, 99% of them are there from smoking.
Most of them are also not there for long, sadly they go to the place of no return. 
He was doing a lot of installs of the equipment in residential situations, he got to meet some fantastic people, but was back to most of them within 6 months taking the machines back, as the people has gone to that place, he said it was a very sad job at times 
My mate gave up one day, because he was sitting on the couch with his little girl, she said out of the blue, Daddy I don't want you to die, he replied I'm not dying, where did this come from he asked..
Reply was, I saw it on TV the other day, your going to die from smoking, he made her a promise to give up right there and then, and he did.

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## METRIX

> Well these days being overweight is just as bad as smoking. All manner of diseases awaits the hefty along with some of the good old ones like heart attack & stroke

  It's not just the weight that's the problem but this leads to long term problems later in life, couple this with all the crap in the food we buy, so much sugar, saturated and trans fat in everything, they say sugar is the biggest killer of all, couple this with the lack of understanding of things like HDL, LDL cholesterol. 
Plus all the crap they print on packaging, Natural this, Natural that, healthy this healthy that, most of it's there to trick you into thinking it's good for you when it's completely opposite. 
As usual these are 1st world wealthy problems.

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## joynz

> Well these days being overweight is just as bad as smoking. All manner of diseases awaits the hefty along with some of the good old ones like heart attack & stroke

  No, being overweight is not as bad as smoking. 
I'm not saying that being obese is good, but smoking makes every thing much worse.  
If you do one thing for your health it should be stop smoking (and then do some excercise and eat plenty of veges)

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## METRIX

> No, being overweight is not as bad as smoking.

   Are you sure ? 
Experts say obesity is overtaking smoking as a cause of cancer 
With Britain’s obesity epidemic showing no signs of slowing, doctors fear cancer death rates will soar unless urgent action is taken to tackle the problem. 
 And experts in America have warned being overweight is “quickly overtaking” smoking as the leading preventable cause of cancer. 
 One  in five cancer deaths in the UK, that is 32,000 a year, are now caused  by obesity – which is at a record high – according to research. 
 And  while most people know being overweight can spark heart attacks and  diabetes, an American Society of Clinical Oncology study found millions  are unaware of the link to cancer. 
 It said: “There is increasing  evidence linking obesity to elevated risk of cancer, recurrence, and  cancer-related mortality in those with early-stage disease. 
 “Obesity is implicated in 15% to 20% of total cancer-related mortality.” 
 Scientists are not 100% clear why being fat can cause tumours. 
 But breast cancer expert Dr Pamela Goodwin told ASCO’s annual meeting in Chicago today: “Obesity results in hormones @imbalances that can fuel tumour growth. 
 “Overweight individuals have higher levels of oestrogen and insulin, which cause cancer growth. 
 “And  they also have increased blood glucose, which can feed the disease. As  smoking rates continue to go down we will reach a point in this  generation where obesity will make a greater contribution to cancer than  smoking. 
 “I worry for the current @generation of kids who have  only lived in an obese world, not knowing what is an @appropriate  portion size.” 
New York cancer specialist Dr Clifford Hudis warned obesity will take over from smoking as a cause of cancer in “the next couple of years”.  
 At the moment, one in four of Britain’s 160,000 annual tumour deaths are caused by cigarettes.  
 Dr Hudis called for action to arrest the soaring obesity rates. 
 He said: “It’s a growing problem but it’s an addressable problem. 
 “For cancer, the most important factor is age but that’s not modifiable. Smoking is modifiable as is obesity.” 
 But Dr Jennifer Ligibel, one of the study’s authors, warned losing weight is not always easy for some. 
 She added: “We can’t just tell someone, ‘You need to lose 20lb’ and expect them to do it without support
.
 “If it was that easy our population wouldn’t look like it does. 
 “We need weight-loss programmes. The goal is to make this part of the standard of care.” 
 Two-thirds of British adults are obese. But the Mirror told this month how many are in complete denial.  Cancer Research UK’s Tom @Stansfeld said: “The number of overweight people is at an all-time high and not showing any signs of decreasing.  
 "Carrying excess weight increases the risk of up to 10 different types of cancer including breast and bowel tumours.”

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## joynz

> Are you sure ? 
> Experts say obesity is overtaking smoking as a cause of cancer 
> With Britain’s obesity epidemic showing no signs of slowing, doctors fear cancer death rates will soar unless urgent action is taken to tackle the problem. 
>  And experts in America have warned being overweight is “quickly overtaking” smoking as the leading preventable cause of cancer. 
>  One  in five cancer deaths in the UK, that is 32,000 a year, are now caused  by obesity – which is at a record high – according to research. 
>  And  while most people know being overweight can spark heart attacks and  diabetes, an American Society of Clinical Oncology study found millions  are unaware of the link to cancer. 
>  It said: “There is increasing  evidence linking obesity to elevated risk of cancer, recurrence, and  cancer-related mortality in those with early-stage disease. 
>  “Obesity is implicated in 15% to 20% of total cancer-related mortality.” 
>  Scientists are not 100% clear why being fat can cause tumours. 
> ...

  Fully aware of the epidemiological research on mortality and, as importantly, quality of life (having worked in a health planning field). 
I'm not saying being overweight isn't an important health risk.  It is.   
However, one of the reasons obesity is overtaking tobacco related causes is because as a population we are smoking less!   It not because smoking is less dangerous than being obese. 
if you are are smoker and overweight then the most important thing and immediate thing you should do for your health and your family's health is to to stop smoking. 
If a person can take only one action, then quitting smoking  is the one they should take.

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## ringtail

I totally agree with the quitting. Absolutely. And I must, asap. However, I have had 2 doctors tell me that while smoking is horrid and they are not at all pleased that I smoke, they would rather me smoke than be 15 kg or more overweight. Now being an obese smoker is as good as been dead already but you just don't know it. Obesity is not just about chucking a hearty. Every joint is screwed, your guts are screwed and every organ is using 100% of its vast over capacity. The cost to the community is astronomical and yet there is no "sin tax" on fat and sugar. Just tobacco. This needs to change, sugar needs to be outlawed, fat taxes need to be introduced and people must be made to pay for their lifestyle choices. Smokers are covered already with their huge taxation contributions so how shall we get our pound of flesh from those with flesh to spare ?

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## r3nov8or

> ... I have had 2 doctors tell me that ... they would rather me smoke than be 15 kg or more overweight. ...

  You need a new doctor; one that doesn't give you an excuse to smoke. You won't give up believing that.

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## PlatypusGardens

Gawd.....I would hardly consider myself obese...  :Unsure:  
most of it is beer gut  :Rofl5: 
And a bit of "middle age spread" maybe.  :Wink:  
I'm around 103-105kg but at almost 6'3 I carry it well.
Would like to get back down to low 90s again though.   :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> Gawd.....I would hardly consider myself obese...  
> most of it is beer gut 
> And a bit of "middle age spread" maybe.  
> I'm around 103-105kg but at almost 6'3 I carry it well.
> Would like to get back down to low 90s again though.

  Something to think about.
A healthy male BMI at 190cm, weight is recommended 67 to 90kg, at 105kg you are bordering on obese  :Mad: 
Your BMI is 29.09, obesity starts at 29.99  :Eek:   *BMI between 25 and 29.9 (Overweight)*
    People falling in this BMI range are considered overweight and would  benefit from finding healthy ways to lower their weight, such as diet  and exercise.  
Individuals who fall in this range are at increased risk  for a variety of ilnesses.  
If your BMI is 27-29.99 your risk of health  problems becomes higher. In a recent study an increased rate of blood  pressure, diabetes and heart disease was recorded at 27.3 for women and  27.8 for men. 
It may be a good idea to check your Waist Circumference  and compare it with the recommended limits.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Something to think about.
> A healthy male BMI at 190cm, weight is recommended 67 to 90kg, at 105kg you are bordering on obese 
> Your BMI is 29.09, obesity starts at 29.99

  
Yeh sure, BMI  :Rolleyes:  I know, I looked at that chart years ago.
If I was 67Kg you'd send me off too get fattened up.
I've not been below 90kg since I was in my late teens. 
What about if I was working out, converted my excess fat to muscle, bulked up and weighed in at 120kg?
What would the BMI say about that? 
I'm a big lad, even without the extra kg and I'll never be within the fantasy scale of the BMI.
(And neither will most people in the real world.)   :Smilie:  
I'm not in denial about being a bit overweight, but I'm definitely not bordering on being obese.

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## ringtail

> You need a new doctor; one that doesn't give you an excuse to smoke. You won't give up believing that.

  LOL. It was an interesting comment for sure. Born out of frustration at the ever widening girth of the population. And neither were my GP's.

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## PlatypusGardens

> LOL. It was an interesting comment for sure. Born out of frustration at the ever widening girth of the population. And neither were my GP's.

   
Sounds like you went to see these guys

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## ringtail

> Yeh sure, BMI  I know, I looked at that chart years ago.
> If I was 67Kg you'd send me off too get fattened up.
> I've not been below 90kg since I was in my late teens. 
> What about if I was working out, converted my excess fat to muscle, bulked up and weighed in at 120kg?
> What would the BMI say about that? 
> I'm a big lad, even without the extra kg and I'll never be within the fantasy scale of the BMI.
> (And neither will most people in the real world.)   
> I'm not in denial about being a bit overweight, but I'm definitely not bordering on being obese.

  The ol' BMI scale is a bit crap. I think the common sense approach works best. If you look fat, you are fat. Blows my mind seeing little kids that look like eggs

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## ringtail

> Sounds like you went to see these guys

  I say again, neither were my doctors. Conversation at a social gathering. And what's wrong with Nich Riviera ? High everybody.

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## phild01

The recommended BMI's are  too low, we'd be eating lettuce leaves :Sad1:

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## METRIX

> The ol' BMI scale is a bit crap. I think the common sense approach works best. If you look fat, you are fat. Blows my mind seeing little kids that look like eggs

  It's like anything it's a guide, they have to have something to reference you to, imagine going to the doctor and them saying, you look fat loose some weight or you will die, that wouldn't go down too well  :Smilie: . 
Your right, if you look fat more than likely you are, unless your in denial.  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> It's like anything it's a guide, they have to have something to reference you to, imagine going to the doctor and them saying, you look fat loose some weight or you will die, that wouldn't go down too well . 
> Your right, if you look fat more than likely you are, unless your in denial.

  Bwahaha. I think that would be a fantastic approach though. Blunt, no BS truth. Imagine the law suits . I've just come back from Straddy and while there was plenty of eye candy around there was, more than ever, plenty of reasons to cover ones eyes with bluebottles  :Biggrin: . It was great to see the nippers carnival. A couple of hundred lean whippets going nuts in the surf and not a chunker among them.

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## r3nov8or

> The recommended BMI's are  too low, we'd be eating lettuce leaves

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## r3nov8or

> ...you look fat loose some weight or you will die...

  My doctor tells me my heart will last the rest of my life

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## PlatypusGardens

Well I certainly don't look like this....

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## Bros

I was thinking more of this.

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## ringtail

Arrrrrgh, my eyes. I can't fathom the process that leads to that. You don't wake up one day and say "holy crap, where did all this blubber come from". Surely at some point between normal size and gigantic one would notice and make a change or two

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## Bros

You would think so but we are not psychologists so it is hard to understand the process that led to this.  
A few months ago I got talking to a very thin woman who used to be my barber when she was fat but I never recognized her after she had lost weight. She said she had 90% of her gut cut away and said you don't realise how much pleasure it is to eat as now she can only eat half a boiled egg at a meal. 
I asked her with that little to eat and the message you need to go to the crapper regularly to avoid bowel cancer what do you do? She said she has not been to the crapper for two weeks. In addition she has heaps of loose skin which needs a few more operations to fix. 
It appeared to both of us that the surgeon took to much away now she has other problems. 
Have a look at the schools now with a pedaphile lurking behind every lamp post kids now don't rid bikes to school they get driven there so the end up getting fat.  
When I went to school and my kids it was bikes all the way and bike racks would be overflowing. The only place I have seen overflowing bike racks is in Winton in outback Queensland. 
The obesity epidemic has a simple answer of eat less but to get to that point can be very hard with the amount of processed food on the supermarket shelves and the bodies natural resistance to a reduction in food intake.

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## r3nov8or

> ... She said she had 90% of her gut cut away ...

  That sounds a bit drastic!  
I have a family member on my wife's side who had his stomach banded many years ago. He was 250kgs and is now 120kgs. If he has the massive multiple operations to remove the excess skin he would be 90kgs. His 'learnt gluttony' can be blamed on his father

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## ringtail

Eh ? Learnt gluttony blamed on the father  How's that work ? I must admit I'm a massive overeater. Hollow legs. Luckily, my metabolism is fast enough and I work hard enough to burn it all and then some. I think I'd have to lie in bed for a week eating pizza and drinking beer to put on weight

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## Bros

> Eh ? Learnt gluttony blamed on the father  How's that work ? I must admit I'm a massive overeater. Hollow legs. Luckily, my metabolism is fast enough and I work hard enough to burn it all and then some. I think I'd have to lie in bed for a week eating pizza and drinking beer to put on weight

  You're one of the lucky ones so you should be a bit more tolerant of others who are not like you.

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## r3nov8or

> Eh ? Learnt gluttony blamed on the father  How's that work ? I must admit I'm a massive overeater. Hollow legs. Luckily, my metabolism is fast enough and I work hard enough to burn it all and then some. I think I'd have to lie in bed for a week eating pizza and drinking beer to put on weight

   Learnt gluttony - loving dad finally got the baby boy he was hankering for, and fed him constantly and let him eat as much as he liked from the day he was on solids, 'Let my growing boy eat!' He was huge by the age of 5. Towards the 'end' (pre banding) 2 roast chickens and lashings of sides and desert the likes of which you will only see on a cruise ship was lunch. For brekki, tea, and snacks... You get the picture

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## METRIX

Was watching some weird eating problem show once, some guy only ate hot chips, for breakfast, lunch, dinner that was it, nothing else, he did this for 20+ years and was having all sorts of health problems.
He was told if he didn't stop it he would be dead in 5 years, I assume he's dead now, as how can you change that sort of habit after such a long time. 
The reason he only ate hot chips was when he was a baby, his mum tried to feed him regular foods, and all he did was cry, when they gave him hot chips he was happy. 
The father got so annoyed, he told his wife to only give him chips to shut him up, and it went on from there.

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## ringtail

> Learnt gluttony - loving dad finally got the baby boy he was hankering for, and fed him constantly and let him eat as much as he liked from the day he was on solids, 'Let my growing boy eat!' He was huge by the age of 5. Towards the 'end' (pre banding) 2 roast chickens and lashings of sides and desert the likes of which you will only see on a cruise ship was lunch. For brekki, tea, and snacks... You get the picture

  Wow. Still, no one is shovelling the food down his gob. He did that all by himself. The early days I would class as child abuse

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## ringtail

> You're one of the lucky ones so you should be a bit more tolerant of others who are not like you.

  Nothing to do with luck. I work my @@@@ off 7 days a week and ingest as little sugar as I possibly can. (Beer is the exception for me). And it's as simple as that. Absolutely anyone can do it and do it easily. Be active and don't eat sugar. Just learn where the sugar is hiding in one's diet and it's game over.

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## r3nov8or

> Nothing to do with luck. I work my @@@@ off 7 days a week and ingest as little sugar as I possibly can. (Beer is the exception for me). And it's as simple as that. Absolutely anyone can do it and do it easily. Be active and don't eat sugar. Just learn where the sugar is hiding in one's diet and it's game over.

  Give up the coffin nails and keep working and eating the same and you have little risk of weight gain. No more excuses!  :Smilie:

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## PhilT2

Smokes are a great appetite suppressor.  Why Smokers Are Skinny | Science | AAAS 
I'm about 10kg heavier than when I smoked, up tnto the normal range rather than under it.
Quitting is easy; did it dozens of times.

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## METRIX

> Nothing to do with luck. I work my @@@@ off 7 days a week and ingest as little sugar as I possibly can. (Beer is the exception for me). And it's as simple as that. Absolutely anyone can do it and do it easily. Be active and don't eat sugar. Just learn where the sugar is hiding in one's diet and it's game over.

  
Agree, we do a lot of work in kitchens, if you see the amount of sugary crap in 9 out of 10 pantries no wonder there is a problem. 
Sugar has been named as the No 1 enemy to modern 1st world health problems. 
We all know fizzy drinks are full of it, as RT says it's the stuff that's hiding inside everything, such as Low Fat Yogurt which is pushed across as the Healthy stuff, Bull-dust, Low fat yogurt is packed FULL of Sugar. 
Fact:
Sugar is not a natural part of  metabolism and humans do not produce it, Very few cells in the  body can make use of it except liver cells. 
When you eat a lot of sugar, most of the fructose gets metabolized by the liver, There it gets turned into fat, which is then secreted into the blood. 
Result: you turn into a Big Popper Whopper Chopper 
Team this up with your average worker who sits in front of a computer all day and does not exercise to burn any of it off, forget it, recipe for disaster.

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## PlatypusGardens

Who's that obese fella?   :Shock:

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## ringtail

Hope that floor has a sturdy frame below  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> Give up the coffin nails and keep working and eating the same and you have little risk of weight gain. No more excuses!

  Word  :Wink:

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## ringtail

> Agree, we do a lot of work in kitchens, if you see the amount of sugary crap in 9 out of 10 pantries no wonder there is a problem. 
> Sugar has been named as the No 1 enemy to modern 1st world health problems. 
> We all know fizzy drinks are full of it, as RT says it's the stuff that's hiding inside everything, such as Low Fat Yogurt which is pushed across as the Healthy stuff, Bull-dust, Low fat yogurt is packed FULL of Sugar. 
> Fact:
> Sugar is not a natural part of  metabolism and humans do not produce it, Very few cells in the  body can make use of it except liver cells. 
> When you eat a lot of sugar, most of the fructose gets metabolized by the liver, There it gets turned into fat, which is then secreted into the blood. 
> Result: you turn into a Big Popper Whopper Chopper 
> Team this up with your average worker who sits in front of a computer all day and does not exercise to burn any of it off, forget it, recipe for disaster.

  Fruit juice is a cracker. Even 100% no added blah blah blah. Mummy gives little johnny a big glass of juice. All good right. Nope. How many oranges/apples have to be juiced to get that big glass of juice ? Heaps is the answer. So all of a sudden little johnny has drunk 7 oranges/apples in 2 minutes along with all the natural sugars. Try eating the equivalent number of whole fruit in the same time. Johnny has a glass with breakfast, lunch and after school. Little johnny is consuming a carton of oranges/apples a day. And that's the no added blah blah blah. The added blah blah blah brands are horrific. Mummy, just give Johnny a orange/apple to eat. Done. And Jam. OMG. We have probably all seen how jam is made. 50% fruit (natural sugars) and 50% castor sugar. So 1kg of mulberries (for example) which are nice and sweet, then add 1KG  of sugar. Brew it up and bottle. Just eat a handful of mulberries. Done. If it's whole food, good. If it's processed, bin it.

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## johnc

> Nothing to do with luck. I work my @@@@ off 7 days a week and ingest as little sugar as I possibly can. (Beer is the exception for me). And it's as simple as that. Absolutely anyone can do it and do it easily. Be active and don't eat sugar. Just learn where the sugar is hiding in one's diet and it's game over.

  Would agree on the sugar, I'm with-in the normal BMI range at 24, 182cm and 80Kg, we eat no added sugar and watch the amount of fructose we ingest which means avoiding things like juice. Even being careful means you will still be consuming plenty of sugar. I don't watch the quantity I eat so much as what I eat, we don't eat as much meat as we did in our twenties nor as much starch. At 60 I still fit into the same size clothes I did at 20, riding 150k a week compensates for a desk job, my overweight friends got that way by adding a bit if weight every year and never getting any off, if my weight goes up I just back off the intake a bit or do a bit more exercise, once it was swimming now it is riding. If you have been fat for a very long time it is extremely difficult to reduce weight, same with dieting it doesn't work long term for many people. I have other health reasons to maintain BMI and avoid sugar, to each their own, if someone is overweight it is their problem but I have little time for the assistance given to the morbidly obese, if they can't be bothered helping themselves why should anyone else.

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## PhilT2

> if someone is overweight it is their problem but I have little time for the assistance given to the morbidly obese, if they can't be bothered helping themselves why should anyone else.

  Mental health issues, such as depression, are sometimes a factor in obesity and it can be difficult to get people in that situation to seek help; a bit like trying to get a smoker to quit. 
Years ago I was at a conference where a lawyer David Gillispie talked about his new book "Sweet Poison. Why sugar makes us fat". There were some doctors and scientists in the audience and they ate him for breakfast. For a lawyer he did a lousy job of defending himself against all accusations of sloppy science, misquotes and inaccuracies in his book. But it sold well.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Fruit juice is a cracker. Even 100% no added blah blah blah. Mummy gives little johnny a big glass of juice. All good right. Nope. How many oranges/apples have to be juiced to get that big glass of juice ? Heaps is the answer. So all of a sudden little johnny has drunk 7 oranges/apples in 2 minutes along with all the natural sugars. Try eating the equivalent number of whole fruit in the same time. Johnny has a glass with breakfast, lunch and after school. Little johnny is consuming a carton of oranges/apples a day. And that's the no added blah blah blah. The added blah blah blah brands are horrific. Mummy, just give Johnny a orange/apple to eat. Done. And Jam. OMG. We have probably all seen how jam is made. 50% fruit (natural sugars) and 50% castor sugar. So 1kg of mulberries (for example) which are nice and sweet, then add 1KG  of sugar. Brew it up and bottle. Just eat a handful of mulberries. Done. If it's whole food, good. If it's processed, bin it.

  
All I got from that post was _brew_ and _bottle   _

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## ringtail

A man after my own heart  :Biggrin:

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## r3nov8or

Our 2 litre apple juice says it contains 20 apples approx. Obviously we limit our consumption to 100 ml per day each

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## PlatypusGardens

Yeh i's funny how it goes. 
I used to eat Weetbix, NutriGrain and sometimes a bit of jam for brekkie, then peanutbutter and jam sandwiches, wraps with tuna and mayo for lunch when working and always buy at least one soft drink (often a large can of Monster or Mother) a Snickers or a ginger beer.....Then home and drink beer, eat crisps etc....pies and sausage rolls on the weekends, more sweets and chocolates
Also used to be on the scotch or bourbon and coke....we'd go through at least one 30-pack of coke cans a week
So much sugar.! 
 And I'd be around 92-95 kg    
Now.....given up smoking, hardly buy any soft drinks or chocolate, have toast maybe 2 times a week, the odd pie.....eat less across the board....still heavier.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   
So it has to be the beer....mmm well, maybe living somewhere a bit cooler will help me stay off the stubbies this winter and get back on track

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## METRIX

Was reading the other day a can of Ginger beer has more sugar then a can of Coke, which is the standard for how much sugar can you fit in one can.
The Weetbix are ok, NutriGrain full of sugar, peanutbutter is ok depending on the brand, stuff like Kraft are BAD full of sugar, others are ok due to low or no sugar, and are ok for cholesterol levels (in moderation). 
When you look at the ingredients of peanut butters, some big brands have many ingredients, the ones better for you, funnily enough only contain peanuts !! 
Here is an interesting article on it, unfortunately they don't list the sugar content  Product review - Peanut Butter | Food and Nutrition Australia ı Dietitian Sydney ı Nutritionist Sydney ı Accredited ı Sydney CBD

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## ringtail

> Our 2 litre apple juice says it contains 20 apples approx. Obviously we limit our consumption to 100 ml per day each

  Sarcasm aside,  apple juice is particularly easy to OD on.  :Tongue:

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## ringtail

> Yeh i's funny how it goes. 
> I used to eat Weetbix, NutriGrain and sometimes a bit of jam for brekkie, then peanutbutter and jam sandwiches, wraps with tuna and mayo for lunch when working and always buy at least one soft drink (often a large can of Monster or Mother) a Snickers or a ginger beer.....Then home and drink beer, eat crisps etc....pies and sausage rolls on the weekends, more sweets and chocolates
> Also used to be on the scotch or bourbon and coke....we'd go through at least one 30-pack of coke cans a week
> So much sugar.! 
>  And I'd be around 92-95 kg    
> Now.....given up smoking, hardly buy any soft drinks or chocolate, have toast maybe 2 times a week, the odd pie.....eat less across the board....still heavier.    
> So it has to be the beer....mmm well, maybe living somewhere a bit cooler will help me stay off the stubbies this winter and get back on track

  But are you expending the same amount of energy since the landscaping side of things dried up ?

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## PlatypusGardens

No of course that's probably a bit less, but I'm still active.
And I'm still "fit" (however one measures fitness)
I've always been a long haul slugger, plod along all day, steady steady.
I've (and you probably have as well) seen the keen labourer on his first day, bragging about how much he can bench press etc....
...then after a few hours on the tools, wheelbarrowing, carrying cement bags, digging holes etc, he's stuffed. 
 I actually surprised myself the other week here when I went to put up some wire fencing to keep the dog in.
Did 25 star pickets with a big heavy home made driver which weighs quite a lot.
I thought my shoulders would be stuffed the next day but got up in the morning and felt fine.  :Smilie:    
Also, the majority of weight gain has been since quitting smoking AND quitting most other unhealthy foods/snacks. 
But I'll get on top of it.
as of  next week the beer will be on rations for a start.  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> And I'm still "fit" (however one measures fitness)
> I've always been a long haul slugger, plod along all day, steady steady.

  I'm exactly the same. I can't run to save myself (I could if required) but I can strap the brushcutter on and slash 5 acres on the side of mountain in 40c or move 4m3 mulch with a barrow or cut and split firewood by hand all day. Farm keeps one very "real world fit" . I don't do high intensity anything these days.

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## Bros

> Also used to be on the scotch or bourbon and coke....we'd go through at least one 30-pack of coke cans a week
> So much sugar.!

  Coke is amazing for diabetics. My wife is an insulin dependent Type 2 diabetic and has to give herself injections four times a day. Being dependent on injected insulin there is the problem that they can have a hypo which she has done on a couple of occasions and it is unbelievable the speed half a glass of coke gets into the blood stream. 
 It would take only 5 min to bring her BGL from 2 to 6.

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## Bros

> I'm exactly the same. I can't run to save myself (I could if required) but I can strap the brushcutter on and slash 5 acres on the side of mountain in 40c or move 4m3 mulch with a barrow or cut and split firewood by hand all day. Farm keeps one very "real world fit" . I don't do high intensity anything these days.

  And still light a fag.

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## PlatypusGardens

> I'm exactly the same. I can't run to save myself (I could if required) but I can strap the brushcutter on and slash 5 acres on the side of mountain in 40c or move 4m3 mulch with a barrow or cut and split firewood by hand all day. Farm keeps one very "real world fit" . I don't do high intensity anything these days.

  We're like two peas in a pod, you and me   :Biggrin:    

> And still light a fag.

  Part from that bit

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## joynz

> I totally agree with the quitting. Absolutely. And I must, asap. However, I have had 2 doctors tell me that while smoking is horrid and they are not at all pleased that I smoke, they would rather me smoke than be 15 kg or more overweight.

  Incompetent doctors, clearly.

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## Bros

> Incompetent doctors, clearly.

   :2thumbsup:

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## ringtail

> Incompetent doctors, clearly.

  Are they ? So you pass judgement on someone's competence based on their opinion ? Modern medical thinking agrees with them so are they all incompetent ?

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## Bros

> Are they ? So you pass judgement on someone's competence based on their opinion ? Modern medical thinking agrees with them so are they all incompetent ?

   Anyone who smokes, takes drugs, overweight or any other habit will look around and find some study or report to support their argument.
Evidence to support smoking as being good is now very scarce under any circumstances. You will get some way out report like ones we see on the Emissions Forum to support any position you want to take.
You could take Winston Churchill as an example if you want as he was overweight, drank heavily, smoked and survived on little sleep and live into his nineties but there are always exceptions.

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## ringtail

Totally. And no one here is saying smoking is good. This was merely an opinion given based on an either or option. Smoke or be 15kg+ overweight. No one said smoking is better for you or beneficial. I think now that smoking rates are steadily on the decline the focus has shifted to a far greater problem that affects or will affect a far greater percentage of the population than smoking ever did or will. As a nation, we are fat as. And fat as is now the new norm. I see a day when the NCC will be amended for "the greater good". Span tables will change to support more live load, door ways will have to widened etc.... :Biggrin:

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## Bros

I don't quite ,make the obese but I an overweight no question and I don't really like it but that is my fault and i can blame no one else. There was some talk a hile ago that the BMI tables  should be revised as we are heavier than our ancestors. Then there is the other end of the spectrum as when I see pic of North Korea they a look well and truely mal nourished and stunted that is except the esteemed leader. 
My neighbor was over today who works at a doctors surgery and she said that weight loss surgery is now being given as a first treatment for the  just obese rather than a treatment of last resort for the morbidly obese. There is a surgeon on the Sunshine Coast doing the surgery for $600. 
My SIL had the surgery a few yrs ago and she was morbidly obese and she lost a hell of a lot of weight and she had to go to Thailand three times to have the loose skin removed as that surgery is not payable by Medicare as it is Plastic Surgery and cost up to $30,000 in Australia.

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## ringtail

Wow. That freaks me out. Surgery to remove loose skin.

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## goldie1

Well done PG and other quitters 
I gave up smoking in 1964 cold turkey no gum no patches just pure willpower 
This was after only one cigarette though so I guess that takes a bit of the gloss of it

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## phild01

> Well done PG and other quitters 
> I gave up smoking in 1964 cold turkey no gum no patches just pure willpower 
> This was after only one cigarette though so I guess that takes a bit of the gloss of it

  That makes me a heavy smoker I guess, giving up after half a dozen :Biggrin:

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## Bros

> That makes me a heavy smoker I guess, giving up after half a dozen

  What about me as I think I managed to go through one packet with difficulty and gave it up. I was thoroughly pissed off as well as all my mates smoked and I couldn't.  
I suppose everyone has across to bear.

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## ringtail

I see the sugar tax is back on the agenda. On the news this morning they said the obesity "epidemic" in Australia costs us    $56billion / year.

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## commodorenut

As a 2 year old I tried to copy my grandparents smoking.  Apparently for several hours after, I was struggling to breathe, so it landed me in hospital, and I was diagnosed with asthma, which I still have to this day (and an acute sensitivity to cigarette smoke - I can smell someone puffing on a sneaky one long before many of my co-workers, and getting too close it triggers my asthma). 
It didn't stop my grandparents from smoking though.  Even watching my grandfather die from lung cancer a couple of years later still didn't stop my grandmother.  It was 15-20 odd years later, when I told her I couldn't come & visit and be in he house with her while she smoked, that she finally took steps to quit, and succeeded.  15 years later, she too succumbed to lung cancer.  Maybe quitting gave her a few more years on this earth, maybe it didn't?  Who knows.  None of my siblings or I smoke - never had any desire to.   I think many young people who do take it up haven't been exposed to the ill effects of it.

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## PlatypusGardens

> As a 2 year old I tried to copy my grandparents smoking.  Apparently for several hours after, I was struggling to breathe, so it landed me in hospital, and I was diagnosed with asthma, which I still have to this day

  Wow, that's nuts  :Shock:

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## Bros

> I see the sugar tax is back on the agenda. On the news this morning they said the obesity "epidemic" in Australia costs us    $56billion / year.

   Who will that benefit not the overweight and obese just like smoking and beer which are taxed heavily it will just go to the Government. The long term targeted advertising of cigarette smoking results have had the desired effect of stopping a lot of young people smoking as well as the social ostracises of smokers.

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## Bros

> My neighbor was over today who works at a doctors surgery and she said that weight loss surgery is now being given as a first treatment for the  just obese rather than a treatment of last resort for the morbidly obese. There is a surgeon on the Sunshine Coast doing the surgery for $600.

  Replying to my own post now maybe an early sign of dementia but  Gastric band surgery study uncovers benefits for overweight and diabetes patients - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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## Spottiswoode

> Who will that benefit not the overweight and obese just like smoking and beer which are taxed heavily it will just go to the Government. The long term targeted advertising of cigarette smoking results have had the desired effect of stopping a lot of young people smoking as well as the social ostracises of smokers.

  I think that banning smoking in a lot of areas has made a fair difference too. It is going to be hard to create sugar free workplaces, restaurants and pubs! There is no immediate health impact on others while you suck down a can of your favourite sugary beverage unlike smoking that does. 
Good on all those that have quit smoking. I've only ever second hand smoked so don't know what it's like to withdraw from something addictive. I'm old enough to remember smoke filled workplaces, trains and pubs/clubs and am glad they are long gone.

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## ringtail

> Who will that benefit not the overweight and obese just like smoking and beer which are taxed heavily it will just go to the Government. The long term targeted advertising of cigarette smoking results have had the desired effect of stopping a lot of young people smoking as well as the social ostracises of smokers.

  True. I just heard it on the news. Apparently the consumption of sugary drinks in mexico has deceased a lot since they implemented their sugar tax

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## ringtail

> Replying to my own post now maybe an early sign of dementia but  Gastric band surgery study uncovers benefits for overweight and diabetes patients - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

  Just heard that too.  They reckon surgery is the best tool they have.

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## phild01

Leave sugar alone, gotta have a vice of some sort.
 Actually now only mix cordial and soda water.  I am a sugar addict but soft drinks have way too much sugar and don't need it.  What I mix up has only a third of what soft drinks have.  It's perfectly fine and don't miss the other 2 thirds at all.

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## Bros

> Actually now only mix cordial and soda water.

  For meals we have half a glass of diet coke or pepsi and soda water, the rest of the time it is just water.  
I can't understand soda water as plain label soda water is $0.75 a bottle and Schwepps is $1.6 for the same size bottle. Something I can't understand as they are both just water and carbon dioxide.

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## phild01

> For meals we have half a glass of diet coke or pepsi and soda water, the rest of the time it is just water.  
> I can't understand soda water as plain label soda water is $0.75 a bottle and Schwepps is $1.6 for the same size bottle. Something I can't understand as they are both just water and carbon dioxide.

  I actually buy the cheap ones over schewppes preferring their plainer taste.  Schweppes seems too salty to me, as do the other branded names.

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## r3nov8or

> I actually buy the cheap ones over schewppes preferring their plainer taste.  Schweppes seems too salty to me, as do the other branded names.

  Schweppes is probably one that adds sodium bicarbonate for that extra bubbly and slightly salty sensation

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## Bros

> Schweppes is probably one that probably sodium bicarbonate for that extra bubbly and slightly salty sensation

  The cheap one tastes good enough for me but the connoisseurs of bubbly drinks would proberbly turn their nose up at it.

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## PlatypusGardens

[QUOTE=Bros;1043640]half a glass of diet coke or pepsi and soda water.[\QUOTE] 
So....is that coke/pepsi mixed with the soda water....?   :Unsure:

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## Bros

[QUOTE=PlatypusGardens;1043658]  

> half a glass of diet coke or pepsi and soda water.[\QUOTE] 
> So....is that coke/pepsi mixed with the soda water....?

   Yep

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## Marc

Why not convert to home made lemonade and ice with no sugar? It's only a matter of getting used to it. There is nothing good in soda drinks much less if it's from an aluminium can. 
As far as gastric band, I am glad that you had a good experience but it is not the norm.

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## Bros

> As far as gastric band, I am glad that you had a good experience but it is not the norm.

  Who are you referring to as I haven't seen any posts who have had surgery certainly not me.

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## METRIX

diet drinks are not good for you.  *Bubble trouble*When taken at face value, diet soda seems like a health-conscious choice. It saves you the 140-plus calories you'd find in a sugary soft drink while still satisfying your urge for something sweet with artificial sweeteners like aspartame, saccharin, and sucralose. But there's more to this chemical cocktail than meets the eye.   *It confuses your body*Artificial sweeteners have more intense flavor than real sugar, so over time products like diet soda dull our senses to naturally sweet foods like fruit, says Brooke Alpert, RD, author of _The Sugar Detox. Even more troubling, these sugar stand-ins have been shown to have the same effect on your body as sugar. "Artificial sweeteners trigger insulin, which sends your body into fat storage mode and leads to weight gain," Alpert says._ *It could lead to weight gain, not weight loss*Diet soda is calorie-free, but it won't necessarily help you lose weight. Researchers from the University of Texas found that over the course of about a decade, diet soda drinkers had a 70% greater increase in waist circumference compared with non-drinkers. And get this: participants who slurped down two or more sodas a day experienced a _500% greater increase. The way artificial sweeteners confuse the body may play a part, but another reason might be psychological, says Minnesota-based dietitian Cassie Bjork. When you know you're not consuming any liquid calories, it might be easier to justify that double cheeseburger or extra slice of pizza._ _It's associated with an increased risk of type 2 diabetesDrinking one diet soda a day was associated with a 36% increased risk of metabolic syndrome and diabetes in a University of Minnesota study. Metabolic syndrome describes a cluster of conditions (including high blood pressure, elevated glucose levels, raised cholesterol, and large waist circumference) that put people at high risk for heart disease, stroke, and diabetes, Bjork explains.   It has no nutritional valueWhen you drink diet soda, you're not taking in any calories—but you're also not swallowing anything that does your body any good, either. The best no-calorie beverage? Plain old water, says Bjork. "Water is essential for many of our bodily processes, so replacing it with diet soda is a negative thing," she says. If it's the fizziness you crave, try sparkling water.   Its sweetener is linked to headachesEarly studies on aspartame and anecdotal evidence suggests that this artificial sweetener may trigger headaches in some people. "I have several clients who used to suffer from migraines and pinpointed their cause to diet soda," Bjork says.   It'll ruin your smile over timeExcessive soda drinking could leave you looking like a Breaking Bad extra, according to a case study published in the journal General Dentistry. The research compared the mouths of a cocaine-user, a methamphetamine-user, and a habitual diet-soda drinker, and found the same level of tooth erosion in each of them. The culprit here is citric acid, which weakens and destroys tooth enamel over time.   It makes drinking more dangerousUsing diet soda as a low-calorie cocktail mixer has the dangerous effect of getting you drunk faster than sugar-sweetened beverages, according to research from Northern Kentucky University. The study revealed that participants who consumed cocktails mixed with diet drinks had a higher breath alcohol concentration than those who drank alcohol blended with sugared beverages. The researchers believe this is because our bloodstream is able to absorb artificial sweetener more quickly than sugar.   It's associated with depressionA recent study presented at a the American Academy of Neurology meeting found that over the course of 10 years, people who drank more than four cups or cans of soda a day were 30% more likely to develop depression than those who steered clear of sugary drinks. The correlation held true for both regular and diet drinks, but researchers were sure to note that the risk appeared to be greater for those who primarily drank diet sodas and fruit punches. Although this type of study can't prove cause and effect, its findings are worth considering.   It may be bad for your bonesWomen over 60 are already at a greater risk for osteoporosis than men, and Tufts University researchers found that drinking soda, including diet soda, compounds the problem. They discovered that female cola drinkers had nearly 4% lower bone mineral density in their hips than women who didn't drink soda. The research even controlled for the participants' calcium and vitamin D intake. Additionally, a 2006 study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that cola intake (all kinds, not just diet) was associated with low bone-mineral density in women.   It may hurt your heartJust one diet soft drink a day could boost your risk of having a vascular event such as stroke, heart attack, or vascular death, according to researchers from the University of Miami and Columbia University. Their study found that diet soda devotees were 43% more likely to have experienced a vascular event than those who drank none. Regular soda drinkers did not appear to have an increased risk of vascular events. Researchers say more studies need to be conducted before definitive conclusions can be made about diet soda's effects on health.    _

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## Bros

I'm aware it may not be any good for you but there are a lot of "may" and "could" in your reply. Even the beer you buy has more than hops, yeast, water and sugar to make it clear and for many other requirements.  
Even  the cigarettes that started this off does not contain just tobacco leaves. 
We are living in a society where we are bombarded with chemicals even fresh vegetables at the supermarket could not be grown without chemical. 
I have friends who have a very large pineapple farm and I was amazed at the amount and toxity of chemicals added to them during their life and they are nothing more than a flowering cactus.

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## r3nov8or

We need to get this back to quitting cigarettes.  
Smokers have a great knack of changing the subject. I know, I was one.

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## Marc

> My SIL had the surgery a few yrs ago and she was morbidly obese and she lost a hell of a lot of weight and she had to go to Thailand three times to have the loose skin removed as that surgery is not payable by Medicare as it is Plastic Surgery and cost up to $30,000 in Australia.

   Like I said, glad it worked out for her. A lot of my wife's patient go back to overweight since they simply keep on eating too much despite the band.
I had great hopes for the gastric balloon when it was invented but for some reason it did not take off like the surgery did, despite being safer and not requiring total anesthesia. 
By the way Metrix post about artificial sweeteners is spot on, and the same goes for Margarine. you may as well have real sugar and real butter than all those chemical substitute. yes there are chemical lurking everywhere, that is why you buy organic as much as possible and ... I wonder if they make organic cigarettes? mm ... now there is a market I did not think of .... have to go now, must check it out  :Smilie: 
 ... is it ethical? moral? culturally sensitive? environmentally friendly? ergonomically balanced? categorically relevant? 
I'll report back, buy for now.

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## PlatypusGardens

> even fresh vegetables at the supermarket could not be grown without chemical.

  I never buy fruit/veg from supermarkets.
It either goes rotten within a day or never ripens. 
All looks nice and shiny though and uniform in size and shape.
Which is what people want.
Apparently.       

> I have friends who have a very large pineapple farm and I was amazed at the amount and toxity of chemicals added to them during their life and they are nothing more than a flowering cactus.

  Plenty of places grow them (and other things) without any chemical spray/additives.
Usually available to buy at your local growers/farmers markets.

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## PlatypusGardens

> We need to get this back to quitting cigarettes.  
> Smokers have a great knack of changing the subject. I know, I was one.

  
*cough*

----------


## METRIX

> Plenty of places grow them (and other things) without any chemical spray/additives.
> Usually available to buy at your local growers/farmers markets.

  Yep, if you must buy from other sources, choose Organic plenty of this in my larger supermarket. 
Makes no difference anyway, if you ever eat out, the restaurant will only use the cheapest ingredients, and Aluminum pots to cook it in.

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## Bros

> Plenty of places grow them (and other things) without any chemical spray/additives.
> Usually available to buy at your local growers/farmers markets.

  And how sure of that, do you see them grown?

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## PlatypusGardens

> And how sure of that, do you see them grown?

   
Yes
Friend of ours leases out his property to pineapple growers.
he says they do nothing to them.
nothing at all. 
They plant them and that's it until harvested.

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## Marc

Bummer ... someone beat me to it ...  :Frown:  Organic tobacco ? who knew it’s an AMAZING way to quit smoking

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## Bros

Have a look at Michael Mosely tonight and they will be discussing weather organic is better or not.  
That's if you can tear yourself away from My Kitchen Rules.

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## METRIX

> Have a look at Michael Mosely tonight and they will be discussing weather organic is better or not.  
> That's if you can tear yourself away from My Kitchen Rules.

  The problem is the pesticide industry is as big as the pharmaceutical industry just like the GMO industry, oh wait, the GMO industry is the pesticide industry what a surprise, so they will always sway arguments to there being no difference.
Perhaps that's why nearly 13 million people in the world are diagnosed with cancer per year, and nearly 7 million die from this a year. 
In China they still use DDT on some of the crops !!!, this has been detected in fruit and vegetables being imported into other countries, this is why I refuse to buy anything made in NZ because of their free trade agreement with China to supply them food which they can them relabel as made in NZ, it's a farce. 
USA GMO crops have all been detected with levels of Glyphosate from product on the supermarket shelves, so much for the glyphosate meant to have dissipated by the time the food hits the shelf

----------


## Marc

Your kitchen may rule, mine does not, never seen one episode. 
Mosely is good, and would be even better if he followed his own advise, haha. Intermittent fasting is the best. I have one meal a day.
Agreed with Metrix, we have zero chance to avoid all chemicals, Buying organic or from a known producer if you live in a small town is probably as far as we can go.
To be organic certified is very difficult and strictly monitored. Better than nothing!
Avoid imported fresh fruit and veg like the plague.

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## Bros

> Yes
> Friend of ours leases out his property to pineapple growers.
> he says they do nothing to them.
> nothing at all. 
> They plant them and that's it until harvested.

  Do they have over a million plants?  
I'll be down your way next week so maybe we could discuss this over an organic crab or three.

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## phild01

> In China they still use DDT on some of the crops !!!, this has been detected in fruit and vegetables being imported into other countries, this is why I refuse to buy anything made in NZ because of their free trade agreement with China to supply them food which they can them relabel as made in NZ, it's a farce.

  Twice I have asked Golden Circle where their NZ canned beetroot is grown.  No response!

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## PlatypusGardens

> Do they have over a million plants?  
> I'll be down your way next week so maybe we could discuss this over an organic crab or three.

  
PM me
I would love to catch up if you have a spare hour or two

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## phild01

Only go if there's crab :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

PG'S currently on a diet, so it will have to be lettuce and sprout sandwiches on Rye bread, and a tall glass of Organic de ionized water  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> Do they have over a million plants?  
> I'll be down your way next week so maybe we could discuss this over an organic crab or three.

  Missing person. Last seen going in to a shed near Nambour  :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> Twice I have asked Golden Circle where their NZ canned beetroot is grown.  No response!

   
Don't buy it, get the coles brand one its Australian beetroots, although the citric acid in the product is from Malaysia.
This is an interesting article  Australian-grown hard to find, but do consumers really want it?

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## Bros

> PG'S currently on a diet, so it will have to be lettuce and sprout sandwiches on Rye bread, and a tall glass of Organic de ionized water

  I draw the line at eating weeds.

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## Bros

> Missing person. Last seen going in to a shed near Nambour

  I'll find him at the dump.

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## METRIX

> I draw the line at eating weeds.

  Agree, these things are disgusting, they ruin any sandwich

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## Bros

> Perhaps that's why nearly 13 million people in the world are diagnosed with cancer per year, and nearly 7 million die from this a year.

  The biggest risk of getting cancer is age. The diagnosis of cancer is getting better and better but the cure rate is not keeping up. 
Cancer screening is a debatable subject in medical science as it has been found scanning will detect cancers that will not harm people for the rest of their lives.

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## commodorenut

A few years back I was diagnosed with high blood pressure.  I didn't have any symptoms, and it was only found when I went to the doc after I got the flu, and out of routine he did it.  The first warning was when he said "this machine must be broken" and tried another, and got the same result.  I can't remember the exact numbers, but the first one was around 240, and the lower one was over 100.  He suggested I should be having headaches, feeling dizzy, or hearing my heartbeat pulsing in my ears, but I had none of that. 
He put me on tablets straight away, and wouldn't let me leave until I promised to go straight to the chemist & buy them (which I did). 
I went through the rigmorol of "you need to lose some weight, remove all salt from your diet etc" and he signed me up for a couple of free sessions with the dietician who operates out of the same practice.  Basically went through what I normally eat, which wasn't too bad (just the volumes needed to decrease).  
I don't add salt to anything, so that was a bit tough to work on - cut back on the few times I have a bit of bacon (maybe once a fortnight) and reduce the amount of olives I eat - and there aren't many other opportunities to cut salt.   
We got onto drinks - I do drink the non-sugar ones (Pepsi Max, Coke Zero), but often times I'll pull a 1L soda stream bottle out of the fridge, gas it up, and sit there sipping away at it all evening.  I quite like the soda water, and sometimes I'll throw a bit of lime or lemon into it, depending on how good my supply is from the garden. 
Dumb blonde dietician then says "you have to cut out soda water, there's way too much sodium in it"
Puzzled, I ask her - how can plain tap water (refrigerated) and carbon dioxide gas, give you sodium?  It defies the laws of chemistry.
She says "look on the label on a soda water bottle" and I replied - this is not commercial soda water - it's a soda stream, using tap water and gas, there is no sodium in it!
I still couldn't make her see sense.   
I had to drop the dosage down a few times over the first few months, and I've been on 8mg for a few years now.  I still feel like I need to do more to get off the tablets altogether (but it may be genetics - my father is 6 foot tall & barely over 70kg, and he had/has bad blood pressure too).  It was only the other day I found out a work colleague is on 80mg of the same tablet I take - 10x the dose!  I don't feel so bad about it now!

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## ringtail

We are about to start the process of getting organic certification. What a palava. There is a "change over or transition period" which is like a starting point for all farms seeking organic certification. A heap of paperwork in the application and if one has completed that properly they then send out the inspector for the first of many property evaluations. This includes soil samples (lots of soil samples), and a general overview of the property for water run off and potential contamination from other properties and the potential for one's property to contaminate others etc... This goes on and on and on for 3 years or so. They do give one the opportunity to correct soils and other "irregularities" . However, it is far from squeaky clean. Certain levels of certain things are permitted as are certain chemicals. Not as useless as getting the heart tick but it does mean more than something like "free range" which is an absolute joke. People do seem to value the "organic" brand but in reality, the only way to know what you are eating is to grow it yourself - like we used to once upon a time. Our farm used to part of a cattle property so who knows what deeds have been done. Apart from some logging I think we are ok. Certainly no cattle dips or anything where we are. Since we have owned it we have not used chemicals or synthetic fertilisers and any inputs have the approved organic input number. Hopefully our soil tests are good and we can move on to the next stage.

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## ringtail

> I'll find him at the dump.

  You can recycle and re purpose him

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## Bigboboz

> A few years back I was diagnosed with high blood pressure.  I didn't have any symptoms, and it was only found when I went to the doc after I got the flu, and out of routine he did it.  The first warning was when he said "this machine must be broken" and tried another, and got the same result.  I can't remember the exact numbers, but the first one was around 240, and the lower one was over 100.  He suggested I should be having headaches, feeling dizzy, or hearing my heartbeat pulsing in my ears, but I had none of that.

  Have you been checking your blood pressure at home away from a doctor?  Mine is always elevated at the doctors!

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## phild01

> Don't buy it, get the coles brand one its Australian beetroots, although the citric acid in the product is from Malaysia.
> This is an interesting article  Australian-grown hard to find, but do consumers really want it?

  I do buy the coles one or the OZ flagged Edgell one.  Aldi used to have Australian but have just deleted it.

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## phild01

> We got onto drinks - I do drink the non-sugar ones (Pepsi Max, Coke Zero), but often times I'll pull a 1L soda stream bottle out of the fridge, gas it up, and sit there sipping away at it all evening.  I quite like the soda water, and sometimes I'll throw a bit of lime or lemon into it, depending on how good my supply is from the garden.

  Long long ago I did use the soda stream but the gas they supplied gave it a terrible flavour.  I take it it is much better now!

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## Bros

> I can't remember the exact numbers, but the first one was around 240, and the lower one was over 100.  He suggested I should be having headaches, feeling dizzy, or hearing my heartbeat pulsing in my ears, but I had none of that.

   Did you do a 5klm run to the doctors flop down in his chair and have your blood pressure taken. These figures are stroke going somewhere to happen. 
I had 140/80 and i was put on blood pressure medication, now it is around 120/70. At the time I asked the doctor what it should be and he said over the years the recommendation has been going down and blood pressure problems affect people who are skinny as well.  
About 12 mths ago I was in the chemist and I saw them stocking up the blood pressure medication shelves and I asked about the amount of medication and the assistant told me blood pressure medication and cholesterol medication is their best seller. When I have casually mentioned to others complaining I am on blood pressure medication I get the reply "I have been on it for years".

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## phild01

> I had 140/80 and i was put on blood pressure medication, now it is around 120/70.

   Mines been like that since my teen years, lower and higher. Still umming and arring about medication. At least I got a zero for my calcium score and a good treadmill result to boot. I need to lose 10 kilos though.

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## commodorenut

> Have you been checking your blood pressure at  home away from a doctor?  Mine is always elevated at the  doctors!

   Yeah, the Doc normally picks up anywhere from 10-15 points extra.
I did 12 months of morning & night checking, and within a few weeks the bottom one was down to 60, so the medication was lowered, then when it dropped again, it was lowered more.  These days I regularly do around 125/75, but can easily hit 140/85 in front of the doc.   

> Long long ago I did use the soda stream but the gas they supplied gave it a terrible flavour.  I take it it is much better now!

  I don't find any issues and we've been using it for 10 years or so.
It's pretty pure CO2 (supplied by a reputable gas company, and I know who does their filtration these days!).  
Maybe it was previously just filtered industrial grade CO2?   

> Did you do a 5klm run to the doctors flop down in  his chair and have your blood pressure taken. These figures are stroke  going somewhere to happen.

  nope, I don't run!  I don't really stress that much either (in my head) so it was quite a surprise.  He didn't want me to leave the surgery.  As my wife was with me, and we've known the quack for 20+ years, he trusted me to go straight to the chemist, otherwise I would have had to stay in the treatment room, take the meds, and wait a few hours for the result.  Next morning the drop was already dramatic.   

> When I have casually  mentioned to others complaining I am on blood pressure medication I get  the reply "I have been on it for years".

   I find the same thing too.  And I'm shocked at the levels people are taking.  Makes my 8mg dose seem useless, but it works for me.

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## METRIX

> . Makes my 8mg dose seem useless, but it works for me.

  What drug did they prescribe for you ?

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## Marc

The tragedy of high blood pressure and diabetes is that it can be moderated and even eliminated by losing serious amounts of weight. Of course it is better business to sell medication, and the mainstream dietary suggestions to lose weight or even what is healthy are all seriously wrong. 
If you have the stamina to extend the overnight fasting to lunch time, and have one 24 hr fasting a week, you will see very good progress on both accounts, blood pressure and sugar.

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## PlatypusGardens

> You can recycle and re purpose him

  
Upcycle, I believe they call it these days?

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## PhilT2

> The tragedy of high blood pressure and diabetes is that it can be moderated and even eliminated by losing serious amounts of weight. Of course it is better business to sell medication, and the mainstream dietary suggestions to lose weight or even what is healthy are all seriously wrong. 
> If you have the stamina to extend the overnight fasting to lunch time, and have one 24 hr fasting a week, you will see very good progress on both accounts, blood pressure and sugar.

  Medical advice on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it....

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## ringtail

> Upcycle, I believe they call it these days?

  value adding now ?  :Biggrin:

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## SilentButDeadly

I have no idea what my blood pressure is... 
I don't think I've had more than two goes on a BP machine in the last 30 years.

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## Bros

> I have no idea what my blood pressure is... 
> I don't think I've had more than two goes on a BP machine in the last 30 years.

  They referto it as a silent killer as there are no symptom for many years all the while it is slowly destroying you from the inside.

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## SilentButDeadly

[sigh] 
Since the depths of time...what has killed my mob is doing stupid things when they are 90 or a stroke. All whilst supporting British American tobacco and the nearest brewery. Blood pressure can go and all those who live for it and get fffff'ed. I'm going mountain biking.

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## commodorenut

> What drug did they prescribe for you ?

   Atacand.  I was on Coveram for a little while, but it gave me a dry cough that was hard to pinpoint.

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## Bros

> Atacand.  I was on Coveram for a little while, but it gave me a dry cough that was hard to pinpoint.

  Must be a few on the market for the doctors to choose from.

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## phild01

Wonder what I might end up on.  My BP has never really changed from my early years, maybe I should have been medicated from my teens. 
At the moment I am 143/87, though just been doing some tax returns.

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## PlatypusGardens

> I have no idea what my blood pressure is... 
> I don't think I've had more than two goes on a BP machine in the last 30 years.

   

> They refer to it as a silent killer.

  
Silent but deadly?.....   :Shock:

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## Marc

> Wonder what I might end up on.  My BP has never really changed from my early years, maybe I should have been medicated from my teens. 
> At the moment I am 143/87, though just been doing some tax returns.

  The only way to know what your blood pressure really is, is to be on a monitor for a few days. Interestingly when you go to the doctor to check your blood pressure, it systematically shows lower readings than it should. Also what may be high for one is not for another. 
There are supplements you can add to your medication if you take any that will lower BP by 10mm aprox. It is a combination of Bergamet and Wagner's Aged Kyolic garlic http://bergamet.com.au/  http://www.wagnerhealth.com.au/produ...eryday-formula

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## SilentButDeadly

> Silent but deadly?.....

  Nah. I can hear my blood rushing around behind my ears. Plus I'm not dead! Yet.

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## Bros

> Wonder what I might end up on.  My BP has never really changed from my early years, maybe I should have been medicated from my teens. 
> At the moment I am 143/87, though just been doing some tax returns.

  I recently had some surgery and while I was in recovery with a nurse sitting beside me I asked what my blood pressure was and she said 160/90. I was surprised and I said that is high but she said no we only worry when the bottom one is over 100. She said if you are worried take your blood pressure while resting three times a day for a week and see what average you get and if it is high you might need to get your medication changed.  
I did that and I got around 120/70.

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## commodorenut

I spent some time in hospital last year, and my blood pressure went down dramatically - like 105/70 and even 99/69 at one point - numbers I've never seen.
Made me question the accuracy of my machine at home.  I asked if they'd given me anything and they said no.  Went right through my charts to make sure. 
I kept taking the daily tablet, as the advice was not to stop, and on the last day it came up a little, but not much.  First few days back home it still stayed low (by my standards) suggesting my machine was pretty spot-on.  Made me wonder if I'd lost a lot of blood during surgery too!
After a week or so back home it was just pipping 80 on the low side, and when I eventually went back to work it hit 85 pretty quickly....

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## Jon

40mg Micardis for me.  Different brands/compounds have different dose rates for the Sam result. 
I was a regular blood donor for years and by blood pressure was never mentioned.  But had to get a health checkup for life insurance (conned and ripped of but that is another story) and the GP put me on BP medication.  16 or so years later I am still taking my tablet each morning.
For me the problem is stress, while on holidays my BP noticeably drops and climbs when the kids go back to school and I go back to work. 
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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## UseByDate

Self help books from Sean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SASpOB3DMfE  :No:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Self help books from Sean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SASpOB3DMfE

  
Haha Sean Lock is brilliant.
(Unlike that tosser Jimmy Carr)  
and....is that Sam Simmons?

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