# Forum More Stuff Go to Whoa!  Image heavy... Reno so far

## Whitey180

A few things done so far:  
Starting stairs.   
Hole cut in floor and stairs done other than treads.   
Moving bathroom wall out to meet the new cutout for stairs.    
Bathroom started!!!   
Dropping ceiling, framed bath and sheeted walls and floor.   
Laying out tiles.            
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## Whitey180

Building stairs.   
Main bedroom started.     
Built in, and walls, ceiling done. Still need infill above built in.    
Floor, built in and infill done, finishing painting, doing infill.    
Starting retaining wall garden beds out back.        
This is recently, removed carport and stairs to make way for new extension over driveway.   
Old deck removed.    
Pier holes done for new extension, also ones out back done for new deck across rear of house.   
This afternoon, some form work
Boxes for the top of the round piers for out the back.       
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## Whitey180

Temporary drainage because we hit storm water pipes when augering  :Redface: (   
More to
Follow shortly !   
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## paddyjoy

Looking good, you have a lot of different things going on at the same time there, you must be busy! 
Keep the photos coming.

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## shauck

:2thumbsup:  awesome. Keep it coming.

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## andy the pm

Looking good, that's a big job you got going.
I can't see any trimmer joists around your stairwell opening, did they go in after the pic was taken?

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## andy the pm

Ignore my last Q, I just noticed the bearer... :Doh:

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## Whitey180

My efforts today:     
Holes are 600 x approx 700-800 deep. Need to put boxes around tops so that piers are independent of garage slab and baseplates and threaded rod/nuts are exposed.   
Holes are 3078 apart but I want to delete one hole if possible because it will block the driveway.  
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## Whitey180

Thank god that's over and I don't have to bucket water  out of holes anymore. Finished piers, now to measure up for the steel work!   
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## Whitey180

Update:  
Got 100x100 angles up and rods almost through ( need to put packers against brickwork ) these rods will be bolted to whale plate outside for deck.     
Scaffolding up!    
Columns are coming this week.  
Excitement  :Redface: )  
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## paddyjoy

Looking good, what's a whale plate? Is it a type if ledger?

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## Whitey180

Sorry, meant whaling plate. Joist hangers come off that then the joists. Ledger same same.   
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## phild01

Great stuff  :2thumbsup: 
The bathroom, are there two tile types to the walls.  I'm a fan of carrying floor tiles up one wall if it can work.

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## turnstiles

A "whaling plate" ?  
Won't hold up much!! (LOL) 
BTW - love that metal staircase you've made. Almost makes me wanna put a second storey on so I can have one too!!

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## Whitey180

Cheers for the replies guys, Phil the floor is a Matt tiles 300x300 and the black wall is kinda the same colour just in a gloss but 300x600.  
Staircase worked well but was a nightmare to weld up inside to get the treads all lined up. Soon as one side was tacked itd pull it all out of level. Got there in the end though. When upstairs is done I'll put some timber treads on screwed from underneath where those holes have already been punched.   
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## Whitey180

Woohoo. Posts up! Out of the ground finally. Now waiting for ub's then that's all the steel done.     
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## Whitey180

Beams are back from the galvos, did a trip to Sydney to pick em up a few days ago.. UB's now up and everything dumpied, fixing plates on... Almost time for joists!

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## DuckCommander

Nice work. 
Are the holes in your columns for cladding framework?
You did the fab work yourself?

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## Whitey180

Yep, exactly. Council paperwork says it'll be left open in between posts but at a later stage will enclose it with cladding. Saves drilling into the steel and compromising the gal.  
Nah, brothers a boiler maker so I got him to make em, although I did have to move a few cleats where there was a stuff up.    
This is one of the cleats I had to move, 4 stick weld runs on each side. Not as nice as a mig run but it should hold. I hope  :Redface: )

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## Whitey180

Got a bit more done, and after a few issues with connecting end joists to hangers and having doubles stipulated by the engineer, with advice and help by this forum I now have most of the joists up for the house side and a quarter up for the deck. Steel beam also installed and ready for grout.

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## Whitey180

Got a bit more done, with help from this forum and the people on it.  
Staring to look like an extension!!!!

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## phild01

That's a great space coming together :2thumbsup:

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## phild01

Noticed you haven't used triple grips on the rafters, weren't available?

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## Whitey180

I used those universal grips that you fold up yourself. They had run out of the pre folded ones.

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## Bedford

I think you need a few more studs directly below those rafters considering you're not using ribbon plates.

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## phild01

Hmm, the top plates might be a bit thin, what size are they?

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## Whitey180

90x35 t2 blue, the existing walls are all out of 70x35 @ 450 single top plate, roof is all at 600 centres.

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## phild01

> 90x35 t2 blue, the existing walls are all out of 70x35 @ 450 single top plate, roof is all at 600 centres.

  Not sure I understand but is it a 90mm wide topplate on a 70mm frame?
Can you give us the rafter spans, wind speed and tie down span if used?

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## OBBob

Existing house wall frames are 70mm I think.

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## Whitey180

> Not sure I understand but is it a 90mm wide topplate on a 70mm frame?
> Can you give us the rafter spans, wind speed and tie down span if used?

  No no, the new walls and top plates are 90x35 t2 @ 450. The existing walls of the house are 70x35 studs and plates @ 450. I will re sheet and batten out existing walls to match new 90mm.  
Not sure what you mean by tie downs, but rafters are at 600 centers and roof battens are at 900 ish.  Not sure about wind but the windows we ordered needed to be n3 
Rafter span is approx 3.5 from top plate to purlin and another 1.5 to the ridge beam. All up 5m rafters are 170x45

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## phild01

> No no, the new walls and top plates are 90x35 t2 @ 450. The existing walls of the house are 70x35 studs and plates @ 450. I will re sheet and batten out existing walls to match new 90mm.  
> Not sure what you mean by tie downs, but rafters are at 600 centers and roof battens are at 900 ish.  Not sure about wind but the windows we ordered needed to be n3 
> Rafter span is approx 3.5 from top plate to purlin and another 1.5 to the ridge beam. All up 5m rafters are 170x45

  My program is running a bit rough at the moment but  says you are fine with N3, RLW 1750, Roof dead load 25kg/m^2, 450 stud spacing, rafters @600.  Tie down needs to be @ 900mm or less to get 85% capacity and 1mm deflection live load.  This is assuming MGP10. F7 works as well at 81% and 2mm deflection. 
This did surprise me a bit but the roof is light and 25kg is 10mm plasterboard, battens, insulation and .7 steel roof. 
Tie down is not just nailing but strapping or rods holding the top plate down to the floor foundation. 
You would have been better using 45mm for the topplate!

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## Whitey180

Thanks heaps for that phil.

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## Whitey180

Yeah, I know. I had all plans to actually doing double top plates. But what can I say.. It didn't happen for whatever reason.

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## phild01

> Thanks heaps for that phil.

   Sorry, I was still editing.

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## paddyjoy

Don't the rafters have to be directly above the studs if using a single plate?

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## Whitey180

I've got strapping across the plates on each corner and straps at every double top
And bottom going around plates. Also uni ties at every full height stud top and bottom.  
150mm bugle screws every 450 through bottom plate and floor into joists.

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## phild01

> Don't the rafters have to be directly above the studs if using a single plate?

  No, tables are used because these are normally offset.  This design has short rafter spans and one topplate is fine.  For a big span where trusses are used then bigger topplates are necessary and doubling up is the easier way to do it, and better.  75x100 was once a common size, but not now.

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## phild01

Personally I would eye off the topplate areas for knots or splits and plate/strengthen these sections if they exist.

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## Whitey180

Perhaps as Bedford suggested I could not only put in some extra studs but also put in a noggin on top of it, forming a 't' to strengthen the top plate.

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## Gaza

Good conversation here,
Way I was taught rafter lines up with stud lines up with Josits, always double top plate or 90x70 top plate not sure how this applies to as 1684   
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## phild01

> Good conversation here,
> Way I was taught rafter lines up with stud lines up with Josits, always double top plate or 90x70 top plate not sure how this applies to as 1684   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  I think when the light timber framing code was conceived, studs were ok'd at 600 centres.  Old houses I believe pretty much had them at 18".  600mm is a typical rafter spacing so would line up easily with the 600 stud spacing.
Joists were 18" as well, or 450mm.
I think framing is trending away from 600mm spacing back to 450mm but rafters remain at 600mm.  Nothing ever generally aligns and certainly not with 450 stud spacing and trussed roofs.
Topplates are a design element because of this, they have to take offset loads in most cases.
Just my take on all of this.

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## Aaron1973

> Good conversation here,
> Way I was taught rafter lines up with stud lines up with Josits, always double top plate or 90x70 top plate not sure how this applies to as 1684   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Ive double top plated mine also , saves hassles with where to sit the roof trusses.

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## paddyjoy

> No, tables are used because these are normally offset.  This design has short rafter spans and one topplate is fine.  For a big span where trusses are used then bigger topplates are necessary and doubling up is the easier way to do it, and better.  75x100 was once a common size, but not now.

  Ok yep, so if you use the tables you can have the load anywhere on the top plate (paragraph 3) however if you use just the minimum thickness of 35mm for the plate the load must be above stud (point b of bottom paragraph), is that how you are interpreting it?

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## r3nov8or

I would do this (actually, I did this) for top plates where any rafters are not directly above a stud. To be sure, to be sure.   
Fix the horizontal nails first  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Ok yep, so if you use the tables you can have the load anywhere on the top plate (paragraph 3) however if you use just the minimum thickness of 35mm for the plate the load must be above stud (point b of bottom paragraph), is that how you are interpreting it?

  Ì am reading this out of context so hard to comment.  I use software to calculate any timber size and this does take into account wind loads.  Doubling up top-plates is accepted practice but not mandatory.  When we started growing pine trees for framing, framing practice had to accommodate this change.  Larger timber sizes became less as green HW, oregon and hemlock were passed over.  Back then it would be fairly unknown to double a top-plate for single storey construction.  With pine framing came the common use of trusses with huge point loads comparatively.  The solution being to double up smaller sections.  The code would reflect these changes.

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## Whitey180

Did this at every point where the rafters don't sit near a stud. Heaps stiffer now, was walking up there today and felt solid as.   
Thanks for the advice guys.

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## shauck

That's how I've done it in the past. Nice one. Usually plenty of offcuts lying around for this sort of thing.

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## phild01

:2thumbsup:

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## r3nov8or

Well done Whitey.

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