# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Down lighting

## gpsmith

My son, wants to have downlights on the ceiling - but cannot have many ceiling penetrations - ie only power cable and 2 - 3 screws!
We currently have 240 v halogens in the room - 2 banks of 5 globes - but they blow frequently and down to 3 - 5 globes regularly.  He still wants the "halogen" light in the room - we have tried the low energy fluros but he does not like the light!!!
I am currently looking at the 12 v swivel downlights but trying to find a way to mount them to the ceiling.  My thought is to construct a plywood  square/rectangular tube for the transformers and lights.  Just wondering if this is possible how much ventilation would I need in the tube?  My thinking is for the depth (from the ceiling) about 150 mm and width 130 mm and 1000 mm for about 4 12 v downlights. 
regards,

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## rrobor

Im not sure about plywood. I had cement sheet  and made boxes out of that and bits of quad and construction adhesive. The box sits over the lamp fitting and the top sits on and has been drilled into a sieve. I also glued fly screen across it to stop bug access

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## BRADFORD

It is not likely that you will get longer lamp life from 12 volt halogen lights compared to 240 volt ones
All those type of lights have very short lamp life
They are also among the most inefficient types of lights available
I suggest you look at alternatives -  LED perhaps  
Regards Bradford

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## elkangorito

I don't think I'd be using plywood as these lights get pretty hot. The heat may affect the glue in the plywood & cause the layers to separate. This may also create an easily combustible situation as these lights get very hot. 
My ultimate opinion is to not use these lights...for all the reasons stated by other posters. 
Don't you have any roof space? 
I think your other alternative would be a low colour temperature (2700k or less), high power CFL.

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## tricky4000

Hi GP,
If your son is anything like me he hates the look of any energy efficient lighting.  Halogen does have a more natural and comforting light (to some people) but as the others said, they are not energy efficient.  They get hot and they use a lot of power for the light you actually get.  As far as his 240V halogens blowing out goes...it could be an issue with his power supply.  A soft start transformer on 12V halogens might be a way to go.  I have myself many cheap Jaycar trasnformers and MR11 20w halogens at my place and we use them a lot and have been connected and working for 2 years and we haven't had one single blow out...and there are a lot of lights let me tell you.  I think the soft start transformer makes a big difference.

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## president_ltd

> Hi GP,
> If your son is anything like me he hates the look of any energy efficient lighting.  Halogen does have a more natural and comforting light (to some people)

  that "natural light" is a function of the temperature of the light.  natural light is around 2700K and is often referred to as "warm white". 
the clinical white of a fluro ("cold white") is up around 4500K. 
it is misleading and wrong to say that energy efficient lights cannot be 'warm white'.
they have come a long way in a few years. 
our entire house is made up of CFLs, all of them in warm white.
majority of lights are recessed with a glass cover (http://www.environmentshop.com.au/Pr...s.asp?PID=3246)
majority of visitors don't even realize they are energy efficient lights in our place.

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## brad3314

i didn't like the bright white look of energy savers either but i brought a couple of the nelson MALC5BC with the 11w globes they must be warm white i reckon. I'm quite happy with the light they put out. Personally i think they're are not to far off the halogen look and you have alot less heat i ended up putting 3 in my hallway and 8 in my lounge room

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## Smurf

The only time you'll find the "natural" light of a halogen lamp in nature is at sunrise, sunset or with a lot of smoke/dirt in the air. The colour temperature of sunlight far exceeds the 2700 - 3000 K of a halogen under normal daytime conditions. 
The warm white (3000K) CFL's should be a pretty close approximation of the halogen type of light however, so that's an alternative. But halogen or warm white does look very "yellow" compared to natural daylight - fine for the lounge and dining rooms but not for an office.

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## Billy22Bob

Dimmable CFLS and LED's cost a bomb

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## RustyNail

> It is not likely that you will get longer lamp life from 12 volt halogen lights compared to 240 volt ones
> All those type of lights have very short lamp life

  That is pretty much completely wrong. 12v halogens have a *much* thicker filament and correctly installed, will last far longer than a 240v halogen or conventional incandescent.

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## RustyNail

> that "natural light" is a function of the temperature of the light. natural light is around 2700K and is often referred to as "warm white".

  The concept of "natural light" is more than just colour temperature - it's also spectral continuity. Halogens have a close-to-ideal spectral distribution, giving them a perfect colour rendering index (CRI). 
Compact fluoros & LEDs both use  excitation of phosphors to produce light, and thus produce a spikey, discontinuous spectrum - that means regardless of what the nominal colour temperature is, all such lights will render some colours poorly. 
People who are sensitive to colour can pick up this "off-rendering" quite easily, others just don't like it, but can't work out why. 
In terms of quality light, apart from sunlight there really isn't anything that comes close to a 12v halogen.

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## applied

Trapiese downlighting? Say two strings of 4x20watt

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