# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  demo wall & building

## zx9

Hi all, 
looking for information on how to remove a internal brick wall in an old Victorian terrace to open the 2nd bedroom into the hall. I have climbed into the attic to check that it's non load bearing, so now need to work out how to bring it down properly.  
also past the original house, I am having a 2 story extension added. however in my building quotes i noticed the builders haven't included any demo work. so i thought i'd research to see if that something i can do with a sledge hammer and a skip if it's not too hard or is it best to leave it to the professionals. my concern would be that one side of the building to come down is a shared wall so extra care would need to be taken not to damage it.  
cheers,
Bernie

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## Bloss

Leave it to the professionals for the back wall - get your builder back to quote on the demolition (he might already have included it in his price - as he should have done unless you asked him not to, so ask him if he has, and if he hasn't, why not). 
On terrace houses the ceiling joists usually go across the rooms from side wall to side wall, but not always, so for your internal wall you must be certain before you start knocking anything down. It is possible that there are roofing struts going down onto that wall even if joists are not. Unless you are sure of what you are seeing just looking is not enough. 
The internal wall will be tied into the side walls and are also likely to be providing lateral bracing to them so again you need to know what the engineering consequence would be of its removal. It might be that all you need to do is to leave a short return as a pier against the side wall, but you might also need to provide a suitable beam above or below the ceiling and properly attached to the side walls to take the lateral forces once carried by the internal wall. 
You need to think about what you do at floor level too - that wall might be sitting on stone footings and be carrying bearers - you need to get below and work out what you are going to do to fill the gap. That can be done after you remove the wall and can see what is in the underfloor area but worth thinking about beforehand. 
This sort of work is not for novices - you need to get good professional advice (from a qualified and/or experienced friend - or pay for it) so you do not have to deal with some major negative and possibly dangerous consequences. 
Of course once you are happy with the advice then there is no reason why you can't do the labouring work to save some money on the job and be comfortable with the quality of the demolition (and the quality and timing, especially if you are trying to live there while renovating). 
Even if the builder has quoted for the other work so long as you know the limits of your capacity you can do much of the work (often not saving much though).

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## zx9

> Leave it to the professionals for the back wall - get your builder back to quote on the demolition (he might already have included it in his price - as he should have done unless you asked him not to, so ask him if he has, and if he hasn't, why not). 
> On terrace houses the ceiling joists usually go across the rooms from side wall to side wall, but not always, so for your internal wall you must be certain before you start knocking anything down. It is possible that there are roofing struts going down onto that wall even if joists are not. Unless you are sure of what you are seeing just looking is not enough. 
> The internal wall will be tied into the side walls and are also likely to be providing lateral bracing to them so again you need to know what the engineering consequence would be of its removal. It might be that all you need to do is to leave a short return as a pier against the side wall, but you might also need to provide a suitable beam above or below the ceiling and properly attached to the side walls to take the lateral forces once carried by the internal wall. 
> You need to think about what you do at floor level too - that wall might be sitting on stone footings and be carrying bearers - you need to get below and work out what you are going to do to fill the gap. That can be done after you remove the wall and can see what is in the underfloor area but worth thinking about beforehand. 
> This sort of work is not for novices - you need to get good professional advice (from a qualified and/or experienced friend - or pay for it) so you do not have to deal with some major negative and possibly dangerous consequences. 
> Of course once you are happy with the advice then there is no reason why you can't do the labouring work to save some money on the job and be comfortable with the quality of the demolition (and the quality and timing, especially if you are trying to live there while renovating). 
> Even if the builder has quoted for the other work so long as you know the limits of your capacity you can do much of the work (often not saving much though).

  thanks for the advice. i'm not sure why the builder didn't include demo of the rear but it mentions on his quote it's not included so i'll have to get that changed. 
i am having the complete subfloor rebuilt so i guess will need to leave some of the internal wall under the floor for the bearers to sit on. 
the ceiling joists go from the middle wall out to the rear wall. (not side to side) and from climbing in the ceiling i cannot see anything that requires the support of the internal wall but i agree lateral bracing might be needed.  
i'll take your advice and get a builder in to check it all out first. thank you.

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## Bloss

If the joists are going over that internal wall to the back outer wall it would be surprising indeed if that internal wall were not load bearing as the span would be too great. In those days the standards were to span 10 or 12 feet (roughly 3m and 3.6m) although because of the availability of good lengths of straight timber the joists might well go over 20 or 24 feet or more (ie: two rooms or more). If they were in a two story dwelling then would be hardwood of 6x2 or 8x2 (150x50mm or 200x50mm). 
When someone has look you can find out from them what is easiest to take the load - depending upon access you can install a new beam above (steel will be smaller for the span) or have new beam coming down from the the newly created larger room. Again steel would be easier and you could probably have steal beam held up by two steel posts affixed to the wall at either end. 
This means the walls would have small returns where the old wall was, but the open look would still be achieved. You could use the beam below and house it into the brickwork n the side walls - steel or timber. 
Remember that your walls will have neighbours behind them so extra care will be needed when doing anything to them - and a good idea to let your neighbours know what you are planning and warn them about any drilling or banging work. 
But what you propose gives a new life to what are often smallish rooms - and generally with 10ft or higher ceilings will be fine even when the new beam is inside the room rather than a flush ceiling.

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