# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  1825 house with sagging floors...?

## ilm121209

my wife and I are looking to buy a house, but theres a catch... 
the exterior walls are 20+ inch thick stone from the foundation to the roofline. there are no cracks or bulges. at some point in the last almost 200 years the center supports for the floor joists started to sink into the dirt basement floor causing all 3 floors to funnel in to the center. somewhere along the way someone poured new footings in the center of the basement and installed 6 jacks to lift the floors. it helped but there is still a bad slope to the center of the house on all 3 floors. they didnt care. they renovated the house and modified the doors and baseboards to match the slope of the floor. that looks to have been at least 20 years ago, maybe a lot more, and the floors have not sagged any farther and are actually very solid. the house is fantastic and in a great area with a great school district and decent taxes. 
heres the question.. if the house inspector says the exterior walls and foundation are solid, could i gut the house, floor joists and all, until it is nothing more than a stone shell with a roof, and then rebuild it from the first floor up after digging the basement floor down a few feet and installing a proper french drain and new footers? new way overkill footers haha. ive worked on and off doing renovations and remodeling for the last 13 years ive just never done anything quite this extreme and wanted others opinions. thanks

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## METRIX

Walk away, unless your getting it at a bargain basement price, how much is it

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## ilm121209

We're planning to offer 75k. If the well and septic are in good shape I'd be comfortable going up as far as 125k. I think it's doable. I just don't know if it's safe to gut the house to that extent. At least I can stay where I'm living now dirt cheap and put all my extra money into the house of we get it

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## ilm121209

I should mention that other smaller houses in the area are going for over 400-600k So it seems like I could get at least what I put into it back if or when I sell it down the road

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## Uncle Bob

Sure that can be done. 
You see it all the time on telly which shows like Grand Designs (UK).
That said, I can't remember one where there wasn't a lot of pitfalls along the way like heritage laws, planning issues and a host of other stuff that pops up along the way.
I'd suggest bringing in a specialist on these types of restorations or at least drag along an architect before signing anything so you can at least get an idea on costs.  
This is mainly an Aussie forum, we don't see too many reno's of homes with 22 inch rock walls down here  :Smilie:  If you do it, it would be great to see a go to whoa thread with pics or videos.

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## METRIX

> We're planning to offer 75k. If the well and septic are in good shape I'd be comfortable going up as far as 125k. I think it's doable. I just don't know if it's safe to gut the house to that extent. At least I can stay where I'm living now dirt cheap and put all my extra money into the house of we get it

  75K, HA HA HA, car spots in Sydney CBD go for 400K, id say go for it if other places around the area are 400K - 600K  No Cookies | Daily Telegraph 
Have you got any pictures, or link to the site where it's for sale, might give a better idea. 
With walls that thick, sounds like the internals are all hanging off the walls, so it should be safe to rip everything out of it, roof might have some structure on the internal walls, but everything is fixable

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## toooldforthis

I've seen that done on houses here in Fremantle. Big thick stone walls.
it's doable.
big job tho. 
on the other hand, maybe live in as is, when you drop your marbles at least you will know where to find them.  :Tongue: 
rosfl.

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## ilm121209

> on the other hand, maybe live in as is, when you drop your marbles at least you will know where to find them. 
> rosfl.

  ah this made me laugh. we were joking about things moving on their own, my wife would swear it was haunted. we're actually planned to start the renovations almost immediately. remove all the old drywall, insulation, plumbing, wiring, etc... and then let a structural engineer and an architect have at it. i want to modify the current layout, switch the position of the living room and dining room, lose a bedroom or two to make room for a proper master suite and larger bedrooms. the kitchen also has an exposed stone wall. i would like to extend that into the dining room which would now be right next to the kitchen instead of on the other side of the house. the stone looks amazing

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## plum

Very fortunate you guys to be able pick up these historical places for nix. Damn jealous. Just finished working for a guy that was brought up in Philly and he is saddened as to what his neighbourhood has become. Good luck mate, go for it.

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## ilm121209

It really is a shame what is happening to cities all over the US. I grew up in a decent neighborhood that I barely want to visit anymore because of the crime

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## toooldforthis

was just thinking about the roof
is it only supported by the external stone walls?
or by some of those internals which have slumped and will be demolished? 
all part of the co$t equation. 
you are pretty much buying the land and stone shell.
value might just be land value minus total demolition cost - altho yo don't intend to do that. 
there was a Grand Designs episode set in rural France where the couple restored a 3 storey stone house - pretty much shell only.
unfortunately they chose to line the internal stone work - shame really.

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## ilm121209

I've been talking with a few people and have come to an easier idea. Instead of gutting the house the main wood support beam in the basement will be replaced with a steel I beam and properly supported. Then one floor at a time the floor joists will be sistered to make a level  floor surface and the lower side will be marked with a chalk line and the sagging portion removed to have a straight ceiling at the proper height instead of losing that few inches. Does this make more sense? The difference being I could live in the house during that renovation saving hundreds a month in rent at my current place.

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## METRIX

> The difference being I could live in the house during that renovation saving hundreds a month in rent at my current place.

  Gee that really is a different world over there,  
Yes it could work what your saying

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## Marc

Sounds more doable than gutting and rebuilding. Post some pictures of the existing and as you go, would be interesting.
Best of luck. Remember that if you are not ashamed of your offer, you are offering too much.  :Smilie:

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## Marc

> Gee that really is a different world over there,  
> .....

   My daughter is forever checking RE in Texas and showing me what she could buy if she sells her $900k house. 
And I am forever telling her that they will both drop their income severely. 
The balance is however in their favour because even when income is lower, everything else besides housing is cheaper too. And should I mention availability and customer service and domestic help and cheap labour and and and...  :Shock: 
Like everything, it is a choice of where do you want to live and if you are game to uproot yourself.
Sorry Ilm from Philadelphia, carry on ... love to see some pictures.  :Smilie:

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