# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  particle board/yellow tongue flooring issues

## antmanandrobin

Hi All, 
First time users. We have built a new home and have had some problems with our yellow tongue flooring. It has absorbed a heap of moisture and has bloated badly and grown mould/fungi on it. Just wondering if anyone else has had any problems like this and how they went about resolution. Thanks in advance   :Cry:

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## METRIX

Pictures ? 
is it just the joins or the whole board that has expanded, how long was it exposed to rain, what covering will you put on it

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## ChocDog

There was a thread on here aaaagggeees ago from Shauk https://www.renovateforum.com/members/shauck/ who had the same problem. Pretty certain supplier replaced.  
It could have been in her large build thread https://www.renovateforum.com/f176/1...ge-reno-91902/ if not you might need to do a search on her threads to find it.

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## antmanandrobin

It's the whole board. This particle board is fully covered in a house that is to lock up sits on piers high on a hill and has no water ingress or connections the flooring is absorbing moisture from the air and causing mould to continually grow. It absorbed water into it from the very beginning of the build, it was covered in 3 months bit either way it all started within a week or so of the flooring being laid, we have seen other particle board flooring that has a resin seal on it but ours didn't have that at all water just soaks straight in. It looks like 'weet bix'. The house is to lock up because the supplier told us that we had to do this and the problem would go away "WRONG" it is still happening. If you can tell me a way to remove moisture from the air that'd be great lol. You can see where the boards are breaking down. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem. The mould is just one problem then there's the bloating, we will have to sand way more than the manufacturers specification.

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## antmanandrobin

Thanks ChocDog we looked at that thread very similar but they were fortunate enough to have a supplier who did the right thing and replaced it.

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## Cecile

I saw your photo over at Whirlpool, perhaps you could post a link to it here.

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## antmanandrobin

> I saw your photo over at Whirlpool, perhaps you could post a link to it here.

  Good idea Cecile   https://postimg.org/gallery/rla9tu9m/

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## JB1

What product is it? Get the rep out. 
Clearly it's defective. 
If they don't replace it you may as well leave it to see if it improves, perhaps paint on a waterproof sealer, ot replace at your own costs.  
Not fair if you have to pay yourself but Y/T is pretty cheap and sometimes you just have to move on and finish off the house.  
=

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## phild01

Probably not fair to compare new to what may have been exposed to the weather for some months.  Left too long in he weather and the edges tend to swell.

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## antmanandrobin

Not prepared to mention product name followed requirements of supplier and manufacturer house is to lock up. No water ingress no plumbing to house. flooring under frames so no easy fix. Looking for people who may be in same boat. Thanks for your interest.

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## antmanandrobin

> Probably not fair to compare new to what may have been exposed to the weather for some months.  Left too long in he weather and the edges tend to swell.

  2 weeks old not exposed to much weather at all compared to 2 weeks old  slightly less exposure to weather. More than edges swelling you can  clearly see there is absorption issue. Not your usual oops took too long  to cover story. This flooring was like this from the beginning. Again  thanks for your interest

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## phild01

> 2 weeks old not exposed to much weather at all compared to 2 weeks old  slightly less exposure to weather. More than edges swelling you can  clearly see there is absorption issue. Not your usual oops took too long  to cover story. This flooring was like this from the beginning. Again  thanks for your interest

  Yes, you wouldn't expect that after 2 weeks but have you taken this up with the manufacturer.

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## jimfish

The flooring is not waterproof, all yellowtongue flooring will absorb water. The pic of a piece of flooring doesnt really show much damage. Do you have a pic of the flooring in the house ?

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## Marc

Mm ... more to the story. Seen plenty of water damage in bathrooms and when the water ingress is rectified, the yellow tongue dries and turns solid again. even black mould stops and this is on particleboard exposed to the weather under the house with no side walls. No such thing as absorbing moisture from the air ... perhaps in Vietnam in the monsoon season.

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## Cecile

> Again  thanks for your interest

  Can you contact me please, either here or over at Whirlpool, in messages.  I have some information for you.

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## antmanandrobin

> Yes, you wouldn't expect that after 2 weeks but have you taken this up with the manufacturer.

  yes we have taken it up rep supplier and manufacturer and it has gotten us no where. you wouldn't expect this after 2 years or even 20 years it's not a good situation

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## antmanandrobin

> The flooring is not waterproof, all yellowtongue flooring will absorb water. The pic of a piece of flooring doesn’t really show much damage. Do you have a pic of the flooring in the house ?

    t would be pretty obvious the damage from water soaking into particle board like this. yellow tongue is supposed to be able to withstand normal building conditions not behave like this flooring

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## antmanandrobin

> No such thing as absorbing moisture from the air ... perhaps in Vietnam in the monsoon season.

  This flooring is crumbling ........ It's called humidity or you know like when you hang your clothes on the line and the air is damp ......... this is all that is needed for the flooring to continue to bloat and mould to grow on it

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## METRIX

Why don't you put some pictures of the actual floor showing the actual problem, perhaps it will make it easier to understand the problem.

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## Marc

May be they used kitchen cabinet particle board?

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## Cecile

OP contacted me over at whirlpool and he's spoken with our shauck.  I don't know what the outcome was but thanks to Su for being so helpful.

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## METRIX

> OP contacted me over at whirlpool and he's spoken with our shauck.  I don't know what the outcome was but thanks to Su for being so helpful.

  
Why all the secrecy around this posting. 
Why was there no pictures of the actual problem floor put up, something to hide possibly ? 
I have never seen YT crumble as described unless it was wet by a leaking bathroom for a long time.

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## Marc

It is a Yellow tongue from a parallel dimension that behaves like clothes on a clothes line, in an alien world where water has two molecules of oxygen and a particular bias against new houses.

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## phild01

I have actually seen yellow tongue you could put your foot through and needed to replace the trafficable area.  All I know is it was many years ago and was subject to a lot of bad weather before it got closed up.  Don't know the branding or much else about it. 
Yes, why the secrecy!

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## antmanandrobin

> Why all the secrecy around this posting. 
> Why was there no pictures of the actual problem floor put up, something to hide possibly ? 
> I have never seen YT crumble as described unless it was wet by a leaking bathroom for a long time.

  There is no secrecy I have put up a photo of the flooring showing how it absorbs water compared to properly treated yellow tongue flooring, anyone who has half a clue about flooring would know that this photo shows a defective product that does not react how it should. I find some of your comments highly offensive METRIX and Marc, this is a real issue for us and has left us with no home and a huge debt. We are unable to get an occupancy certificate for our home because of this issue. As I have stated from the very beginning I'm looking for people who have had or maybe having the same issue, I'm not looking for people who think they are experts in a field they clearly no nothing about. Your comments show you still have a lot to learn in life. We have now had a range of expert testing done on the flooring and the mould levels on the floor is extremely high making our house uninhabitable, other components of the house have slightly raised mould levels but nothing compared to the floor. We have had testing done for structural integrity and moisture absorption which it failed again leaving our house unsafe to live in. This situation is not a joke to us and we know there are others out there who are in the same boat as a rep for the manufacturer (who doesn't want to resolve the issue) has stated to us so therefore we all maybe able to help each other in a very sad situation. Perhaps your expertise would be best kept for more basic inquiries. I am not here to defame anyone so if you see that as secrecy please accept my apologies.

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## antmanandrobin

> I have actually seen yellow tongue you could put your foot through and needed to replace the trafficable area.  All I know is it was many years ago and was subject to a lot of bad weather before it got closed up.  Don't know the branding or much else about it. 
> Yes, why the secrecy!

   So here are some photo's for you all, there is no secrecy just not sure how the first photo I posted could cause people to think we are trying to hide anything. The first photo was the first sign of the mould growth this appeared after 2 weeks with only a few showers on 1 day so to all who say it has to have been left in the weather for an extended period of time, wrong. The second photo is 4 weeks later what you are looking at here is the flooring completely covered in mould it is even starting to grow up the saw horse, that is not saw dust it is mould, we did have a couple of rainy days nothing unusual in the building process (for all you doubters I have the rain fall report from BOM for the period nothing extreme there and yes the water was removed from the flooring using a squeegee however it was a fruitless effort as the water absorbed straight into the flooring. Photo 3 shows the progress of mould over time this was about 3 months after the house was closed up with no water ingress at all as confirmed by experts, no plumbing no leaks NO water at all. Photo 4 shows the bloating which is well beyond manufacturers allowances. The last photo was taken during a very dry period the flooring had shrunk so much that the gaps between boards was extreme you can clearly see the break down of the flooring which has been tested and confirmed by experts. The house was to lock up by 3 months which is the allowed time as per manufacturers specs. So as you may now be able to see we are not underhanded and have done nothing wrong this is a faulty product. I feel we are lucky to have been owner builders as we were hands on, if this house had been built by a builder they would have laid floor covering and the owner may have been none the wiser until the floor covering started to rot and grow mould. Oh and for those who still doubt one of the moulds identified by experts is wood rotting mould. 
As you can probably guess this has left us heart broken and in a world of debt to try to get it rectified, we are shattered so please can you keep comments to those that maybe helpful.

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## Uncle Bob

Gee that is terrible! 
I'm no expert but it does look like it was either exposed for a very long time to the elements or it never had it waxy like coating applied in manufacture (you didn't sand it off by chance?).
I can totally understand why you are upset. 
I think you need to get some third party inspectors/experts in to give advice and then maybe lawyer up depending on their report.

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## antmanandrobin

> Gee that is terrible! 
> I'm no expert but it does look like it was either exposed for a very long time to the elements or it never had it waxy like coating applied in manufacture (you didn't sand it off by chance?).
> I can totally understand why you are upset. 
> I think you need to get some third party inspectors/experts in to give advice and then maybe lawyer up depending on their report.

  Thanks Uncle Bob for your interest. as I've said this started 2 weeks after it was laid it was on site for 3 days prior to being laid. No it wasn't sanded and yes the wax coating was clearly faulty or never applied. We did question the appearance of the flooring at delivery but were told it's of high quality and were assured it was not faulty. 
As I mentioned earlier we have had third party experts in and yes it does look like we'll have to head down the legal road as neither supplier or manufacturer are looking to help us. We have a very strong case. Again a reason we are looking for people with the same problem, this is going to be an expensive and time consuming process but not much else we can do.
Thanks you again for your interest and concern

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## Uncle Bob

Maybe the supplier even sent the wrong stuff. Is there any writing on it?

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## antmanandrobin

It's the right stuff, it's just a faulty batch but they don't want to fix it which again could be because there are others with the same problem and it would be very expensive for them to fix all the problems so they aren't willing to do the right thing

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## Marc

You could have provided the whole story at the beginning, in order to allow an informed reply. You posted half the story and made half assed replies therefore the half assed comments from me.
It is obvious that you need a solicitor and trying to find others may sound like a good idea but will only delay your case. The solicitor if he is worth his salt and wants to mount a class action can do the leg work and delay your case even more in the process.

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## antmanandrobin

> You could have provided the whole story at the beginning, in order to allow an informed reply. You posted half the story and made half assed replies therefore the half assed comments from me.
> It is obvious that you need a solicitor and trying to find others may sound like a good idea but will only delay your case. The solicitor if he is worth his salt and wants to mount a class action can do the leg work and delay your case even more.

  Pretty sure I did provide the whole story from the beginning the floor has mould and is bloated badly, apparently this description was not enough for some, the accusations about secrecy and something to hide is because I didn't supply enough photo's to please you. 
I'm not here to argue, just to seek help. I'll take your latest post as an apology.

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## Marc

> Not prepared to mention product name followed requirements of supplier and manufacturer house is to lock up. No water ingress no plumbing to house. flooring under frames so no easy fix. Looking for people who may be in same boat. Thanks for your interest.

  Take it as you wish, although I am not in the habit of apologising for no reason. The above post written from the top of a high horse is not helpful. 
Having said that, I have vast litigation expertise and I say you are wasting your time here. You will not resolve your problem by finding sympathy, and your problem is a large one since it implies dismantling the whole frame that sits on the flooring in question. No manufacturer's insurance will agree to pay a few hundred thousands without an extended fight. Your solicitor will need to decide which court will hear the case or if you want to chance it with the ACCC. 
As usual the bad publicity is a good side dish that can be exploited providing you have good legal advise. Best of luck and I hope you are more open with your solicitor than you were with us.

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## Uncle Bob

> your problem is a large one since it implies dismantling the whole frame that sits on the flooring in question

  It could be possible to slip new sheets under the walls without dismantling them. Any fasteners going thu the bottom plate would need to be removed and the wall chocked up. And since the sheets are now weetbix, they should be easy to remove and see where the fasteners are. Going to be a big job though.

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## METRIX

> There is no secrecy I have put up a photo of the flooring showing how it absorbs water compared to properly treated yellow tongue flooring, anyone who has half a clue about flooring would know that this photo shows a defective product that does not react how it should. I find some of your comments highly offensive METRIX and Marc, this is a real issue for us and has left us with no home and a huge debt. We are unable to get an occupancy certificate for our home because of this issue. As I have stated from the very beginning I'm looking for people who have had or maybe having the same issue, I'm not looking for people who think they are experts in a field they clearly no nothing about. Your comments show you still have a lot to learn in life. We have now had a range of expert testing done on the flooring and the mould levels on the floor is extremely high making our house uninhabitable, other components of the house have slightly raised mould levels but nothing compared to the floor. We have had testing done for structural integrity and moisture absorption which it failed again leaving our house unsafe to live in. This situation is not a joke to us and we know there are others out there who are in the same boat as a rep for the manufacturer (who doesn't want to resolve the issue) has stated to us so therefore we all maybe able to help each other in a very sad situation. Perhaps your expertise would be best kept for more basic inquiries. I am not here to defame anyone so if you see that as secrecy please accept my apologies.

  I'm sorry you took offence to me asking you to post pictures, In post #2 all I asked was for you to put some pictures up of the problem, asking someone to assist on a forum with a problem that is highly rare without providing a photo to show us the problem you are experiencing is very difficult, sorry to say but putting up a photo of some small off-cut with a bit of water on it means nothing, YT does absorb water from day one to a certain degree, it has been designed to be somewhat weather resistant for a short period of time while construction is happening, post #13, Jim also asked for a picture, post #19 I also asked again for a picture, I don't really see how you can take offence to someone asking for a photo. 
You see it many time on forums, when people refuse to put a picture up and the thread goes on and on as people are guessing, all this ends up doing is cause more confusion than answers. 
Now seeing your actual pictures it's obvious straight away the board is a faulty product. 
Irrespective what you were asking from the very beginning has nothing to do with the responses you will get, I'm sorry you feel I am an expert in a field I have no idea about.
Anyone who is a frequent visitor to this forum knows the advice I have provided is always in their best interest, and why my inbox private messages from members is always at max. 
Just FYI, I have been involve in the residential building industry for many years, and have laid more yellow tongue than you will ever see in 20 lifetimes, does this class me as an expert in this field ? does it also mean I have half a clue about flooring , according to you no, I would disagree, I have a pretty good idea about the performance expectations of this product. 
In all those years, I have NEVER seen a failure like the one you have posted, this is why I asked for some pictures because I could not visualise how bad the problem was. 
Please don't take offence for someone who is trying to help you, you turn up here and within a few weeks being on the forum you are carrying on like a pork chop having a go at various members because they are asking you to provide some basic information so they can offer some advice, this would be like me turning up at a site to asses a problem with some bricks, upon entering the site I would be provided with small piece of a supposed problem brick and a small piece of a new brick, then blindfolded taken to the problem wall and told there is the problem, my reply would be I can't see the problem, I thought you were an expert, you have no idea what you are talking about, incorrect, but if you take the blindfold off will be able to asses the problem.. 
I do feel sorry for the situation you are in, and understand this would be extremely stressful for you and the family, my advice is if you want to start some sort of class action against this supplier then the first step would be to post pictures of the actual problem and asking for others who may be experiencing the same problem, meanwhile providing this evidence to the manufacturer, if nothing is acted on, This would then be followed up quick smart with a visit to the FairTrading website to get the issue resolved,  
I would also consider seeking the services of a testlab who can breakdown the offending YT compared to a newer one so they can provide a chemical composition of the different boards, this will show straight away if the offending product contains any of the weatherproofing product that is meant to be present. 
It's easy for me to say, but getting emotional about this will only make everything worse for you and the family. 
Get all your evidence sorted, present these to the manufacturer and contact FT, hopefully they can have this problem resolved without the need of expensive legal action, after all that's why they are there. 
I'm not saying is going to be a short process because it may not be, but the quicker you get them involved the quicker you can get into your new home. 
Below is a link to the NSW FairTrading general complaints, start here to getting this resolved ASAP.  https://www.cas.fairtrading.nsw.gov....neralForm.html

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## Marc

> It could be possible to slip new sheets under the walls without dismantling them. Any fasteners going thu the bottom plate would need to be removed and the wall chocked up. And since the sheets are now weetbix, they should be easy to remove and see where the fasteners are. Going to be a big job though.

   You have a point there, but since this is most likely ending in court and insurance solicitors will get involved, I doubt the customer's insurance will be happy with a less then radical approach to this problem since it will be the other party paying, and they will not take any additional risk for no additional pay.
But anyway this is an unfortunate thread for an highly unfortunate situation and further comments may not be best.

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## Uncle Bob

> But anyway this is an unfortunate thread for an highly unfortunate situation and further comments may not be best.

  Yip. 
I feel for the OP as this is a pretty bad situation to be left in so I can understand their stress, but it was a wee bit rude having a crack at you guys (well maybe not so much you Marc haha ).

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## ChocDog

OP, you've never stated what brand it is. Is it actually CHH Yellow Tongue? If so, please let me know. Either post here or if 'secrecy' is preferred via PM.

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