# Forum Home Renovation Asbestos  another is it or isn't it? thread

## belgavin

Typical first post, and I really appreciate the information already available on this board. 
I am currently saving to pay for an asbestos inspector to go through my house and compile a report (single income with a young family, so it's taking a while). 
In the meantime, I have taken some pics of a few materials I'm concerned about. 
My home was built in 1968/9 and was originally a fibro shack. At one stage, most likely the 80s (but haven't been able to confirm) it was renovated, an extension added and it was re-clad with hardiplank. 
I have had several tradies tell me the hardiplank boards 'do not look like asbestos'. I have seen the back of one board at one part of the house and 'this product does not contain asbestos' is printed on it's underside. While that made me feel a little better, that was just one board, and there are a few boards around the house that are clearly a different width. I have a feeling the house was re-clad with non-asbestos hardiplank, but some older boards were used, for whatever reason.
The house was restumped about a year and a half ago. The tradesmen both ripped a bunch of boards off around the outside of the house to get room for their jacks. They told me they see asbestos sheeting all the time and 'this stuff looks too new'. As I've since learned, you can only take such advice with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, if the hardiplank does contain asbestos, they broke and chipped more than a few boards.
The only other reno job done on the place so far was the removal of a shower (its walls and base were damaged badly due to the restumping). I naively did not think about asbestos when the shower walls were removed. There is a ceramic tile underlay backing that looks fairly new, but I can't be sure. Timber behind the cement sheet had a receipt date pencilled on it saying late 1987. 
Anyway, sorry to ramble, below is a description of each pic and I thank anyone in advance for their thoughts. I completely understand the only sure-fire way to know is testing. 
1 - Side-on shot of ceramic tile underlay removed when shower was gutted. I was assured by a builder friend this was not asbestos material. 
2 - Close-up of ceramic tile underlay's damaged corner 
3 - Back of ceramic tile underlay. It isn't actually as 'dimpled' as this picture makes it look - it feels smooth when you run your finger over it. 
4 - Back of a piece of hardiplank cladding. This is the main type of board covering the house 
5 - Another piece of hardiplank, though this one is slightly thinner than the first piece 
6 - Close-up of hardiplank from pic 4 
7 - How the cladding looks intact, with plastic joiners

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## goldie1

Unfortunately it is impossible to give a definite answer to your questions. Early to mid 80s was the time 
when the products you have ceased being manufactured with asbestos but due to people still carrying stocks 
and installing them at later dates its impossible to be definite. Also some of the products which don't contain  
asbestos may be installed over existing sheet which did contain asbestos.  The only way to be certain is to have 
each type tested. You need a small piece of each ( about the size of a 50 cent piece)  sealed in a zip lock bag 
and take them to a testing lab. Don't forget to identify and label each piece. Testing costs between $ 50 and $80 
each test depending on where you live. Any  broken  material you have on site should be sealed with a  
couple of coats of paint.

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## belgavin

Thanks for the reply Goldie. I am going to either start sending bits off to be tested or get an inspector here (who will probably just end up taking samples anyway, but at least they can go through the house and point out possible hazards). 
On a positive note I looked through an air vent hole in one plaster wall inside the house and spotted another board with 'this product is manufactured without asbestos' on it. Will still test before I start drilling or pulling off for re-cladding though, just to be safe.

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## goldie1

Any thing marked as "does not contain asbestos" would be fine but you should still take precautions 
as breathing any kind of dust is harmful

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## belgavin

Out of curiosity I rang the James Hardie customer line and spoke to someone in the technical department.
They said that the 'does not contain' message printed on the back of boards was not done by Hardie, but by distributors who were possibly trying to offload old stock during the overlap period when asbestos was being phased out of building materials.
So, there's a chance there is asbestos present in the material, even if there's a message printed on it saying otherwise.
I'm getting it tested very soon. 
On another note, I contacted my local council and discovered through permit records that it's highly like the cladding was done in 1986 during an extension.
Unfortunately, of course, there's no way to know whether the hardiplank boards used were manufactured that year. They could have been sitting as old stock in a building yard for some time, I guess.

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## goldie1

> Out of curiosity I rang the James Hardie customer line and spoke to someone in the technical department.
> They said that the 'does not contain' message printed on the back of boards was not done by Hardie, but by distributors who were possibly trying to offload old stock during the overlap period when asbestos was being phased out of building materials.
> So, there's a chance there is asbestos present in the material, even if there's a message printed on it saying otherwise.

  That would be a low act. It may still be genuine because Hardies were not the only manufacturer ( unless of 
 course you are sure its a Hardies product )  
I would be interested in hearing the results if you do get it tested

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## belgavin

Just an update on this. I was hoping to get a consultant out but it was going to cost close to $1000 since I'm in a regional area. I ended up sending a sample of the hardiplank cladding to a lab via post and it came back 'no asbestos detected'. Still have other samples to send in but the cladding was my main worry, so that's a relief.

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## phild01

Those pics absolutely look like cement based sheets to me.  I am interested to know why it now seems difficult to distinguish between Fibro and the AC sheeting material.  Anything with the very obvious dimpled backing and very brittle, is the asbestos based product. Back in the time when this stuff was made, I noticed that manufacturing changed due to asbestos awareness, and from that time on the dimpled backing changed to a more mesh like pattern and the sheeting was more pliable.  All these testing recommendations being made suggest to me that, people aren't willing to declare that the newer manufacturing during the '70's did not include asbestos!  I would really like to know if asbestos was sneaked into the newer manufacturing by JH.

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## belgavin

> Those pics absolutely look like cement based sheets to me.

  Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, when you say cement-based are you meaning they look like asbestos material or the opposite?

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## phild01

> Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, when you say cement-based are you meaning they look like asbestos material or the opposite?

  Similar colour of light grey but a lighter fibrous look.  Fibrolite is quite easy to identify if you have a piece.  I remember it being an issue in the 70's and the releasing of newer product.  I thought the newer product was being called AC sheet.  Googled when the production with asbestos ceased and it seems hardies did sneak in small levels of asbestos so as to use the stockpiles until around 1981.  I was unaware of this and thought the asbestos stopped with newer production.  I know I have been exposed to levels of this cement/asbestos dust on many occasions, so far so good.  Personally the later AC sheet is of no concern to me and have not heard of cancer from it (correct me if it has been documented).  I worry much more about AC sheet prior to mid 70's.  Bear in mind we are talking about asbestos that is at the lower end of the considered danger scale.  Still need to be careful though this dust would be everywhere.

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## intertd6

I've been in the game for a while & it's really hard to tell the difference between AC & cement sheet produced after the mid 70's , once it's been exposed to the elements the cellulose fibre sheet goes really brittle & doesn't bend the slightest before breaking.
regards inter

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## phild01

I guess this really has my interest now.  This link will give you a few nights reading: How to identify asbestos fibro when doing renovations | The Asbestos Removal Guide 
Seems the phasing out I was aware of at the time was the deadly blue asbestos, then later followed by the white stuff.  The pic of hardiplank may contain asbestos, the villaboard also especially if it was Wunderlich villaboard. 
All in all, once affected 50 years may pass before you know you are about to die. The main warning for today is stuff from China.  Regulators in Aus don't really have resources to check everything that comes in.  Now worrying about those bathroom tiles I recently cut.  Then there are the cheap asian cars coming in with asbestos brake linings.  Where does the worry stop!  Seems you can't escape exposure.

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