# Forum Home Renovation Fences & Screens  Picket Fence Questions

## smokyjoe

Hi All,
        Another picket fence post. Sorry! I'm going to put up a picket fence along the front and side of my front yard. We're on a subdivided block, with a driveway to the right of our front yard leading to the rear unit. We want to completely enclose the front yard so the kids (1 toddler, 1 in utero) can be contained. So the fence will run up the side of the drive and up and over the end of the verandah (this will be a gate). It'll be max 1500mm high (council regulations). As per this thread (http://www.renovateforum.com/f214/pi...d-idea-118449/ ) I am doing it without a plinth. I plan on painting/sealing everything first, then touching up after. Posts will be secured with a dirt/cement mix. 
These are the dimensions if it matters:  
These are my questions. Any advice would be appreciated. 
1. Treated Pine or Cypress: Costs seem to be around the same. I've read conflicting arguments about which is better for the posts, rails, and pickets. The arguments against treated pine seem to be that it sags, twists and warps. Against cypress is that it splits. Any recommendations one way or the other for posts, rails and pickets? Happy to mix between the 2. I was originally thinking cypress posts and rails, and treated pine pickets. Now I'm thinking all cypress. But I'm still somewhat undecided. I'm in Melbourne if this helps. 
2. Post size: I've read that 90x90 is too small to mortise/notch with. But looking around the neighbourhood it looks like most posts are 90x90. I did a jarrah horizontal fence last year (with a lot of help from someone, less help this time hence all these questions). I originally got 115x115 posts, but they were huge, so took them back and got 90x90. What size do you recommend for 1200mm pickets? 
3. What is the best way to put this up? I think I read that you should prop the posts up in their holes with some bracing, attach the rails, then infill dirt/cement. Is this right? 
4. Notching posts for rails - Is this something that can be done by a beginner? I have a circular saw, but haven't used it a lot. I'd take my time with it. I just don't want to ruin my posts, especially if it should be done after they're cemented in the ground. 
5. Screws or nails? I don't have a nail gun, and I'm probably not that accurate with a hammer, so I'm thinking screws will be neater option. Do I go through the back, and part way into the picket, so that the front is unpenetrated? Then patch the back with an exterior gap filler, sand and paint? 
6. I'm planning on getting an alumunium gate frame made up to cover the width of the verandah. This seems to be the easiest way to cover this space, and have a gate. A half gate, half fence covering the 2.1m will be too hard with posts etc. (I'm assuming). This is not really a question ha ha. 
6. When the fence gets closer to the verandah, I need it to rise around 40cm along the top (i.e. pickets increasing in length), to match the height of the gate that will run along the verandah. Can I do this with straight rails? Will it look strange? Or should the rails follow the same elevation as the top of the pickets? 
7. The driveway was a slight curve to it. The old man reckons he can get the rails to curve the same way. I think he was planning on cutting them into thinner strips, bending, gluing etc. Has anyone done this? Does it work (and with pickets attached)?  
I think that's it for now  :Smilie:  Any advice would be appreciated. I'm planning on tackling most of this myself (and taking my time), but I'll get my old man to do some of the trickier bits (e.g. making a timber frame for the front pedestrian gate).  
Thanks

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## David.Elliott

These are my questions. Any advice would be appreciated. 
1. Treated Pine or Cypress: Costs seem to be around the same. I've read conflicting arguments about which is better for the posts, rails, and pickets. The arguments against treated pine seem to be that it sags, twists and warps. Against cypress is that it splits. Any recommendations one way or the other for posts, rails and pickets? Happy to mix between the 2. I was originally thinking cypress posts and rails, and treated pine pickets. Now I'm thinking all cypress. But I'm still somewhat undecided. I'm in Melbourne if this helps.   TP for the pickets will be the best and Cypress for the framing. 
2. Post size: I've read that 90x90 is too small to mortise/notch with. But looking around the neighbourhood it looks like most posts are 90x90. I did a jarrah horizontal fence last year (with a lot of help from someone, less help this time hence all these questions). I originally got 115x115 posts, but they were huge, so took them back and got 90x90. What size do you recommend for 1200mm pickets? 
90 x 90 should be fine for the posts.. The key dimension is the size of the rails. They need to be sized to ensure that the run between the posts doesn't sag. The picket fences done the old way here in the West used 6 x 4" jarrah, posts, with the notch coming out of the 6" depth..  
3. What is the best way to put this up? I think I read that you should prop the posts up in their holes with some bracing, attach the rails, then infill dirt/cement. Is this right?  If I had a decent run to do that's how I would do it... 
4. Notching posts for rails - Is this something that can be done by a beginner? I have a circular saw, but haven't used it a lot. I'd take my time with it. I just don't want to ruin my posts, especially if it should be done after they're cemented in the ground. A circular saw guide and a sharp chisel will also be needed...First cut the two sides of the notch using the guide. Be aware of the blade thickness. You need to cut on the INSIDE of your two lines... Then do lots of cuts in between and some from corner to corner. The bulk of what you need to take out will come out with the use of a hammer, then clean the bottom of the trench with the chisel...do it before they're in the ground...much, much easier.  
5. Screws or nails? I don't have a nail gun, and I'm probably not that accurate with a hammer, so I'm thinking screws will be neater option. Do I go through the back, and part way into the picket, so that the front is unpenetrated? Then patch the back with an exterior gap filler, sand and paint?  Screws are your best option however I reckon that you'll need to come from the front of the picket. There will not be anywhere enough holding power in a 19mm picket  
6. I'm planning on getting an alumunium gate frame made up to cover the width of the verandah. This seems to be the easiest way to cover this space, and have a gate. A half gate, half fence covering the 2.1m will be too hard with posts etc. (I'm assuming). This is not really a question ha ha. 
6. When the fence gets closer to the verandah, I need it to rise around 40cm along the top (i.e. pickets increasing in length), to match the height of the gate that will run along the verandah. Can I do this with straight rails? Will it look strange? Or should the rails follow the same elevation as the top of the pickets? Can't visualise this...photos?  
7. The driveway was a slight curve to it. The old man reckons he can get the rails to curve the same way. I think he was planning on cutting them into thinner strips, bending, gluing etc. Has anyone done this? Does it work (and with pickets attached)? That's nuts... hows he going to cut a rail that will need to be 100mm as a minimum (I think) into strips...then there's the whole glue outdoor problem...put a post at the point where the "point" is and do two straight runs up to that...   
I think that's it for now  :Smilie:  Any advice would be appreciated. I'm planning on tackling most of this myself (and taking my time), but I'll get my old man to do some of the trickier bits (e.g. making a timber frame for the front pedestrian gate).  
Thanks[/QUOTE]

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## smokyjoe

Thanks for the tips. So if I screw in from the front, can I get a good finish (i.e. not visible at all) with some gap filler and sanding/painting (I'll look into the correct product later)? 
As for the curve, I think I'll just try and do it straight with a few posts, but it would look better curved. To be honest, my old man is a wizard with wood, so if anyone can do it, he can. But I'm not sure if it's worth the bother and potential issues. 
I'll take a picture pf the verandah later and post it.

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## justonething

If you notch a 90 x 90 posts, you will end up with a depth of 45 perhaps. That won't last more than a month. If you want to notch, use 5 x 3 post of 125 x 75.

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## smokyjoe

> If you notch a 90 x 90 posts, you will end up with a depth of 45 perhaps. That won't last more than a month. If you want to notch, use 5 x 3 post of 125 x 75.

  Can't I notch both the post and the rail (e.g. 30cm on the post, 15cm on the rail)? I am struggling to picture a picket fence with 125 x 75 posts. All of the ones around me seem to be 90x90.

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## webtubbs

I've used these before with good sucess (so far)...  http://www.maclockproducts.com.au/De...5&ProductID=82 
No notching required. Measure between posts, cut rail to length and attach.

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## justonething

> Can't I notch both the post and the rail (e.g. 30cm on the post, 15cm on the rail)? I am struggling to picture a picket fence with 125 x 75 posts. All of the ones around me seem to be 90x90.

  You certainly can - a 30 mm (?) notch on the post is too much. I suggest a depth of no more than 15mm on a 90 x 90 post and it has to be a tight lap joint. But doing a tight lap joint in situ is quite tedious, and a loose one just doesn't have any strength. May be a fence bracket is a easier solution.

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## smokyjoe

> I've used these before with good sucess (so far)...  Fence Bracket Series 1 | Maclock Products Home 
> No notching required. Measure between posts, cut rail to length and attach.

  Hmm. I'm now thinking about this. I just can't see 115x115 posts looking any good (and I want square). If notching with 90x90 should be avoided then I might have to go for the brackets. Are there any types that are less visible than others? Or anything that can be done to hide them?

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## johnc

Dodgy brothers fencing there, why not just get a piece of rope and string it across if you want simple. If you are going to do a picket fence do it properly I can just see those brackets failing at the fastenings over time.

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## METRIX

> If you notch a 90 x 90 posts, you will end up with a depth of 45 perhaps. That won't last more than a month.

  Below is one I did over 9 years ago, these were 90x90 H4 posts, shock horror I concreted them in the ground, they had 70x45 dressed rails notched out 45mm deep and cypress pickets.
Went past there a few weeks ago and it's still standing as good as it was 9 years ago, 90x90 with a 45 notch is fine (depending on the height you want to go).   
Below is the original photo when I made it.

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## METRIX

> I've used these before with good sucess (so far)...  Fence Bracket Series 1 | Maclock Products Home 
> No notching required. Measure between posts, cut rail to length and attach.

  MM, not sure about hose, I prefer to notch the rails in.

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## phild01

Metrix, don't tell me you ran out of Newel caps :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> Metrix, don't tell me you ran out of Newel caps

  Nah, Acorns were specified. :Tongue:

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## webtubbs

> MM, not sure about hose, I prefer to notch the rails in.

  I was unsure also, but after 5 years the fence is still as strong as new. 
Demak have rail brackets also that look less conspicuous.. Fence Rail Bracket (for fixing rails without having to notch the post) - Demak Timber & Hardware

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## ringtail

The common post up here is 100x75 or 100x100 HWD. The decent contractors notch the rails full depth which is generally 38 mm. The dodgy ones just batten screw the rails to the back of the posts.

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## OBBob

I'm sure the consensus will be that the 'check out the post' method is better. However, just trying to think objectively - your posts are stronger, there's no opening in the side of the post that could capture water and speed up rotting, easier and faster to erect the fence, if you need to get a bobcat into the front yard just unscrew brackets and lift out fence section  :Smilie: , if a bracket fails just ... replace the bracket.

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## smokyjoe

> Below is one I did over 9 years ago, these were 90x90 H4 posts, shock horror I concreted them in the ground, they had 70x45 dressed rails notched out 45mm deep and cypress pickets.
> Went past there a few weeks ago and it's still standing as good as it was 9 years ago, 90x90 with a 45 notch is fine (depending on the height you want to go).

  Perfect. Thanks Metrix. Fence looks good, and no plinth! I don't see many of those, and that's how I have to do mine. 
My posts will be 1500mm high or less. Pickets will be 1200mm, except the last few which will rise a little. Your fence looks like 900mm or less? 
I think I'll notch 30mm on the posts and 15mm on the rails.

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## METRIX

> Perfect. Thanks Metrix. Fence looks good, and no plinth! I don't see many of those, and that's how I have to do mine. 
> My posts will be 1500mm high or less. Pickets will be 1200mm, except the last few which will rise a little. Your fence looks like 900mm or less? 
> I think I'll notch 30mm on the posts and 15mm on the rails.

  This one had H4 sleepers behind it to keep the crap from the garden behind it getting under the pickets, Im not a fan of the look of plinth, IMO it looks too bulky at the bottom, I would rather the pickets stop short 20mm of the ground.
Yes 30 on the post is good, it looks better if the rail sits flush to the insides of the post. 
That one was 900 pickets, this size blended in with the rest of the street. 
Also these were DA nailed on, then patched, I haven't seen a good screwed on and patched job, which the filler does not fall out within 6 months. 
The dodgy ones here simply screw them on then paint over them and it looks crap, screws are either button head (this looks the worst) or countersink which have not been pre-drilled, the better ones screw and patch, but it falls out, the best ones nail them on and patch for a seamless finish, cypress is a very stable wood, and does not tend to warp so it wont pull the nails out.

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## smokyjoe

I'm finally ready to start this project. I'm planning on getting materials from bunnings. because I can rifle through and pick the good pickets. The free trailer hire also heaps with the cost. 
90x90 cypress gold posts, and cypress pickets. I wanted to use cypress or hardwood for the rails, but it doesn't look like this is an option at Bunnings. I'm a little wary of treated pine, because I've heard that it can twist and warp over time. Is this a valid concern? It seems like a lot of fences use treated pine, so maybe I'm being a little paranoid.  
Is 70x38mm TP rails a good option?

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## smokyjoe

Job starts this weekend. 90 x 90 DAR cypress posts, 90 x 35mm TP rails. I'll notch the posts some of the way (probably 20mm). I'm undecided about whether I'll notch the rails to make them flush (15mm), or leave them sitting out 15mm. I guess I'll work that out after I've notched the posts. 
With the rammed dirt/dry cement method, is that just normal cement, 'premixed' dry concrete (sand/agg/cement), or rapidset? And do you think this is strong enough for a 900 x 1200 pedestrian gate post, or should I concrete this one in? I don't have a wheelbarrow, don't have a need for one (except maybe mixing concrete this time), and nowhere to store one, so if I'm mixing concrete it'll be on a piece of blueboard or a tarp. I don't mind doing one like this but I'd prefer not do all 8 like this. 
Thanks

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## METRIX

Cement is a stand alone product, such as GP cement, cement is one part of either concrete mix, or sand / cement mix, if you are after cement then buy a bag of GP cement.  Australian Builders 20kg General Builders Cement | Bunnings Warehouse

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## Whitey66

No mention here of using gal steel posts and rails??
I built my picket fence about 15 years ago out of 100mm x 100mm x 3mm gal steel posts with 75 x 25  x 2mm rails, all welded with Mig welder and it's solid as a rock.
No warping, twisting or rotting of posts and rails and at the time it was much cheaper than using timber.
For the posts, I just screwed the turned timber tops to the top of the flat type post caps from the inside and tapped them onto the post with a rubber mallet.
It looks just like an all timber fence but it is a hell of a lot better in regards to strength, looks and lack of maintenance. 
I also fully painted the treated pine pickets before fitting them and i'm very surprised they are still in excellent shape ( I normally hate using treated pine for anything).
It still has the original paint on it and looks pretty good, the only mistake I made was using a sealer between the treated pine pickets and the rail where the screws were.
After about 2 years the sealer shrunk causing the filler to come out of the screw head holes. 
I have to fix that this week, I'm thinking of die grinding (with a rotary burr) the greyed timber around the screw head as the screws are well countersunk, priming then filling the holes with either car or builders bog, Earls powder putty or Exterior Polyfilla.
Does anyone have much experience on what is the best filler to use for filling the screw heads?

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## ringtail

I'd be going car bog.

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## Whitey66

> I'd be going car bog.

   Yeah, that was the option that I thought would work the best as car bog grips tenaciously to metal (screw head) where the others don't.
I used exterior Pollyfilla when I built the fence and that stayed put for 2 years so bog should definitely last longer.
The only hassle with car bog is the short working time once mixed, so i'd have to do several batches.
Oh well, do it right, do it once.

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## smokyjoe

Well, that wasn't fun. 8 holes 600mm deep, 100mm dirt, then 200mm of cement, followed by 300mm of hard clay. Done with a manual post-hole digger and a jackhammer. I never wan t to dig another hole again! 
Given that most of what came out of the holes was concrete and clay, I'm guessing I should acquire some dirt from elsewhere for ramming in the post holes?

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## smokyjoe

Well the posts are set, notched for the rails, and the rails are cut to length. I just need to prime/paint the rails, and put it all together. Thanks for all the advice so far; it's been invaluable. Hopefully this will be the last of my questions  :Smilie:  I'll post some pics when I'm done.   

> Also these were DA nailed on, then patched, I haven't seen a good screwed on and patched job, which the filler does not fall out within 6 months. 
> The dodgy ones here simply screw them on then paint over them and it looks crap, screws are either button head (this looks the worst) or countersink which have not been pre-drilled, the better ones screw and patch, but it falls out, the best ones nail them on and patch for a seamless finish, cypress is a very stable wood, and does not tend to warp so it wont pull the nails out.

  Metrix, will countersinking to a good depth help with the containing the putty? I'm in 2 minds about whether to screw or nail. My reasons for wanting to use screws are that it'll be easy to remove pickets if needed, and I understand they generally hold better. I'll also be able to do bits and pieces at my leisure, but I'd have to hire a nail gun, so would want to do it in one go. But your comments on the putty have me worried. Cost/effort is not a factor in my decision. 
I've read many posts where people recommend screws, mostly because of the reasons I've mentioned. And I've read many posts advocating a nail gun, which mostly seem to relate to the speed at which you can get the job done. Does those using screws not bother to putty the holes?

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## David.Elliott

I figure if filling is the go, then whether you use nails or screws, replacing pickets will be a challenge, as you'll need to get the filler out to access the screws... 
Nail and fill...you can always prise the picket/s off...

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## METRIX

> Well the posts are set, notched for the rails, and the rails are cut to length. I just need to prime/paint the rails, and put it all together. Thanks for all the advice so far; it's been invaluable. Hopefully this will be the last of my questions  I'll post some pics when I'm done.   
> Metrix, will countersinking to a good depth help with the containing the putty? I'm in 2 minds about whether to screw or nail. My reasons for wanting to use screws are that it'll be easy to remove pickets if needed, and I understand they generally hold better. I'll also be able to do bits and pieces at my leisure, but I'd have to hire a nail gun, so would want to do it in one go. But your comments on the putty have me worried. Cost/effort is not a factor in my decision. 
> I've read many posts where people recommend screws, mostly because of the reasons I've mentioned. And I've read many posts advocating a nail gun, which mostly seem to relate to the speed at which you can get the job done. Does those using screws not bother to putty the holes?

  If your using Cypress pickets there is no reason why they should not be fine in 20 years, I wouldn't really consider having to remove the pickets as a reason to do something a different way, if you have to remove the pickets in say 10 years, chances are the screws will snap anyway. 
If that's a deciding factor, then use Stainless steel screws, and don't put any paint near the screws as you will fill the head and render them useless. 
It really comes down to the look you are after, you can screw them on and putty the heads, but I guarantee you the putty will pop up in 6 - 12 months, this will require another sanding to knock the raised putty off then repaint again, or you screw them on, don't putty the heads which looks crap IMO, or you screw them on and paint over the screws which again looks crap IMO. 
If you want to screw them on, I would use Stainless Steel TRIM head decking screws, these are less obtrusive, but you will have the painting problem, If you putty over the heads with a two part bog, you won't get the bog out in the future to unscrew the pickets, as it's goes as hard as a rock so screwing and bogging with intentions of removing is not an option anyway IMO. 
Or you Nail them on and putty the small holes, with a 2 part filler such as builders bog, or I prefer Plasti-Bond, inevitably the timber will shrink, and the putty wont, this is why the putty will show, if you use Treated Pine pickets these ill shrink and expand constantly like a sponge which is why I never use it, cypress is the way to go, or hardwood pickets if you can find them, these are very stable timbers for this situation. 
I have always used Cypress pickets and DA nailed them on then filled with 2 part builders bog for  smooth finish, I have never had to remove the pickets for any reason where a fault has developed, but I have the luxury of having all the tools, so I can choose how to fix these types of things on and it's just a matter of picking a tool off the shelf. 
You could hire a Paslode finish gun from Bunnings and use ND nails, these are similar to DA, they have a bigger head and much more holding power than a C brad. 
The only issue I have with Paslode and other brands finish nails is they are electroplated galvanised, not HDG, this means they don't last as long outside, but if you choose to go the ND path, you can get Stainless Steel 50mm (this would be my choice of fixing if nailing). 
Bear in mind ND nails only come in straight configuration not angled, so you need to hire a straight gun (if you can find one) most places rent out the angled guns. 
It's like anything there is always 100 reasons why you do something a certain way, and like most DIY your over thinking the job, as said the advantage I and other tradies have is we have the tools to do the job whichever way we see fit.

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## smokyjoe

Hi Metrix, thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. Clearly I'm  a beginner at this stuff, but I'm learning and having a bit of fun doing it. 3 years ago the only tool I had was a screwdriver. Now I've got a reasonable collection.   

> If your using Cypress pickets there is no reason why they should not be fine in 20 years, I wouldn't really consider having to remove the pickets as a reason to do something a different way, if you have to remove the pickets in say 10 years, chances are the screws will snap anyway.

  It's not the pickets I'm worried about lasting, it's the rails. I ended up with LOSP treated pine, which I've heard some bad stories about. But you're right. I'm probably over-thinking it, as is typical the first time I do something new. I'll go the nail route. I guess the most important thing is that the wife is happy. The more jobs I do well, the better chance of buying more tools for the next job  :Smilie:   

> You could hire a Paslode finish gun from Bunnings and use ND nails, these are similar to DA, they have a bigger head and much more holding power than a C brad. 
> The only issue I have with Paslode and other brands finish nails is they are electroplated galvanised, not HDG, this means they don't last as long outside, but if you choose to go the ND path, you can get Stainless Steel 50mm (this would be my choice of fixing if nailing). 
> Bear in mind ND nails only come in straight configuration not angled, so you need to hire a straight gun (if you can find one) most places rent out the angled guns.

  What about this coil nailer? For Hire: Air Coil Nailer 4 Hour Rate | Bunnings Warehouse 
And these nails? Duo-Fast 50 x 2.5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Ring Pneumatic Plastic Collated Coil Nail 1800 
Is this a good option? Do I need to pre-drill to avoid splitting? And considering I only have around 30m of fence to do, should I just do it with a hammer?

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## METRIX

> Hi Metrix, thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. Clearly I'm  a beginner at this stuff, but I'm learning and having a bit of fun doing it. 3 years ago the only tool I had was a screwdriver. Now I've got a reasonable collection.   
> It's not the pickets I'm worried about lasting, it's the rails. I ended up with LOSP treated pine, which I've heard some bad stories about. But you're right. I'm probably over-thinking it, as is typical the first time I do something new. I'll go the nail route. I guess the most important thing is that the wife is happy. The more jobs I do well, the better chance of buying more tools for the next job   
> What about this coil nailer? For Hire: Air Coil Nailer 4 Hour Rate | Bunnings Warehouse 
> And these nails? Duo-Fast 50 x 2.5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Ring Pneumatic Plastic Collated Coil Nail 1800 
> Is this a good option? Do I need to pre-drill to avoid splitting? And considering I only have around 30m of fence to do, should I just do it with a hammer?

  There is nothing wrong with LOSP treated pine, if it's H3 just don't let any of it touch the ground. 
You could go for the coil nailer, this is a good option as they hold on real good, but it leaves a bigger hole to fill, around 3-4mm in diameter, if you do go this option, dial the gun up so the nail goes below the surface a few mm.
You wont be able to predrill if usig a nail gun, it's almost impossible to line the gun up with the predrilled hole 
Nail gun is better than hand for nailing, as you tend to bash the posts a lot while fixing them on, nail gun inserts the nail in half a second, and does not disturb the posts. 
You should not split the cypress with that gun, keep away from the edges, around 20mm minimum and you should be good. I have never used a coil gun with cypress so not sure on that one. 
If your going to use coil nails, I would recommend to screw them on using TRIM screws, the head is about the same size as a coil nail so patching is the same, this way you can take your time with it, pre drill and screw them on. 1000 Stainless Steel 304 Timber Merbau Decking Screws Trim Head 9G Gauge 53mm | eBay

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## smokyjoe

Damn, this all so confusing. I swear, they've deliberately made nail guns and nail types confusing so that beginners like me give up and use screws! As far as safety goes, it's probably a good option. 
I don't necessarily want to use a coil nailer, it's just the only nail gun I found for hire when searching 'Bunnings nail gun hire'. I've since browsed through their hire shop and see they have a few more options. Can I use DA nails in any of these? If not, I'll go to Kennards or somewhere else.  Builders Range | Bunnings Warehouse

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## METRIX

No none of them are DA bradders, welcome to the world of building, there is no one fits all for anything in building, and why I have 7 different nail guns, as as many different power saws. 
You could start your collection of tools and buy a nail gun  :Rolleyes:

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## Marc

The only nail gun that accepts a variety of nails is the coil nailer so, as far as versatile it is one that can do a variety of things. Unfortunately it is also one of the more expensive one and so are the nails. And don't forget you need a compressor to go with it. 
Unless you are a tools aficionado or think you will do a lot of fencing there is no point in buying a nail gun of any description and renting one is probably not going to be cheap. 
So say I that has 3 coil nailers collecting dust.  :Blush7:   
SS decking screws will get you out of trouble.

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## ringtail

One can get HDG T nails too so the ol' T nailer is worth considering. Hitachi, I think, were the only ones that made a T nailer that took 65 mm nails. All the rest fell short by a few mm. Hence the huge price of the hitachi gun. Now one can get 63 mm T nails.  :Rolleyes:  Good for weatherboards.

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## Marc

My T nailer is 'birdie' brand yet it takes 65mm nails. You sure you can get T nails in hot dip galvo?

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## smokyjoe

> The only nail gun that accepts a variety of nails is the coil nailer so, as far as versatile it is one that can do a variety of things. Unfortunately it is also one of the more expensive one and so are the nails. And don't forget you need a compressor to go with it. 
> Unless you are a tools aficionado or think you will do a lot of fencing there is no point in buying a nail gun of any description and renting one is probably not going to be cheap. 
> So say I that has 3 coil nailers collecting dust.   
> SS decking screws will get you out of trouble.

  I'm not considering buying a nail-gun. It would only be used once (that I know of). I can hire a coil or brad nailer from Bunnings. $30 for 4 hours or $40 for 24 hours, which is good, especially considering the convenience. But I'm just confused about what nails I could use that will hold, are going to last, and only leave a small hole. 
Decking screws are looking better and better.

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## METRIX

Let's make it even more confusing, you could always buy a DA gun, and compressor, then add to this later as you get more brownie points from the misses. 
2 year warranty Ryobi Airwave 50L 2.0HP Air Compressor | Bunnings Warehouse 
2 year warranty Ryobi Airwave DA Series Air Brad Nailer | Bunnings Warehouse 
I don't usually recommend to buy low end tools, and here we have the problem for budding DIY, they want to do things but don't want to outlay on tools they may only use once, this is where hiring comes in, hire the right tool for the job.
Spend money on good quality tools you will use all the time, such as cordless drill and impact driver. 
Kennards hire a face fix flooring gun, these are either DA or ND guns, both are fine for what you want to do, make sure to get gal or SS nails, this gun needs a compressor, so hire both at the same place. 
Don't worry about the cost of hiring, think of the money your saving, if you got a chippy to build it for you, you don't get nothing for free these days, now think of the outlay a "good" chippy has to spend on tools, good quality anything starts around $300 up to $1500 per tool, times that by 20 or 30 and you have a large outlay, then you wear them out and have to keep buying.

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## ringtail

> My T nailer is 'birdie' brand yet it takes 65mm nails. You sure you can get T nails in hot dip galvo?

  I have some otter 50's and they are. As for the larger sizes I'll have to check next time I buy some. I do know they are specified for outdoor use as it says it on the box ( so it must be must be true) as opposed to the gal finishing nails that clearly state "not for outdoor use" and yet, they get used outdoors on a regular basis.  
Never heard of Birdie guns

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## ringtail

> then you wear them out and have to keep buying.

  Yep, I use the same excuse too  :Biggrin:

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## Marc

> ...
> Never heard of Birdie guns

  Ha ha ... and you never will ... it's my way to call a no frill brand, home brand ... green bird brand ... I thought I heard someone saying birdie brand ... may be not.  :Smilie:  I know ... catheads gun ...  :Rofl5:

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## ringtail

Fair enough. Bugger all t nailers take a 65 mm nail at a reasonable price even now. NFI why but trade tools guns, for example, are 64 mm. Odd. Then again, they are well priced.  https://www.tradetools.com/product-r...zine-38mm-64mm

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## Marc

Actually my T nailer takes 64mm nails not 65. Paslode takes 65 and so does Hitachi. I think that the difference has more to do with the origin of the gun and the availability of nails in origin, imperial sizes who knows. 
Air nail gun manufacturers have forever tried to lock people into buying nails that are exclusive to their gun, using angles distance between nails and sizes. The strategy works only for a little while until nail manufacturers catch up and make them. 
This is my 'birdie' gun http://www.aircofasteners.com.au/pro...ler-nd-bradder

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## smokyjoe

All the posts and rails are up, along with the gate frame. Everything is painted and ready to go. I'm finally getting around to putting up the pickets this weekend. The people at Kennards tell me this is the gun I should use: https://beta.kennards.com.au/tools/f...-cordless.html - Although they originally told me a different one, and still haven't confirmed whether it takes DA nails; they just said it's suitable for fencing. What sort of nails should I use along with this gun? I think 50mm HDG DA is what I want, but I don't really know  :Smilie:

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## Marc

https://beta.kennards.com.au/nail-gu...r-package.html
This is the right gun for fencing.
This is the nail, but make sure the angle of the collated nails is the right one for the gun.  Duo-Fast 50 x 2.5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Ring Pneumatic Plastic Collated Coil Nail 1800

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## smokyjoe

> https://beta.kennards.com.au/nail-gu...r-package.html
> This is the right gun for fencing.
> This is the nail, but make sure the angle of the collated nails is the right one for the gun.  Duo-Fast 50 x 2.5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Ring Pneumatic Plastic Collated Coil Nail 1800

  I was trying to go for a DA nailer, because it's what Metrix had recommended.   

> You could go for the coil nailer, this is a good option as they hold on real good, but it leaves a bigger hole to fill, around 3-4mm in diameter, if you do go this option, dial the gun up so the nail goes below the surface a few mm.

  But if that's what's best for fencing, I guess I'll use it. Will I have an issue with the filler falling out due to the bigger hole, as compared to DA nails?  
If I go for the coil gun, I think I'll just get it from Bunnings, as it's more convenient: http://www.bunnings.com.au/for-hire-...-rate_p5470102 http://www.bunnings.com.au/for-hire-...-rate_p5470037 Duo-Fast 50 x 2.5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Ring Pneumatic Plastic Collated Coil Nail 1800

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## Marc

Metrix has probably made 30 times more picket fences than me, so if he says to use DA nail, use DA. It will certainly be easier to putty up the hole. 
Why don't you take one paling and a block of wood to Kennards and ask to shoot a few DA nails and round head coil gun nails in it and assess the difference. The fencing nail will be stronger, but if strength is a concern, screws may be the way to go.

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## smokyjoe

Thanks Marc. I'm trying to follow Metrix's advice, but it's still not clear to me which gun takes DA nails. Do you know if this one does? https://beta.kennards.com.au/tools/f...-cordless.html 
If I can't work it out soon I'll give up and use these: Macsim 8 x 50mm Stainless Steel Trim Head Decking Screws - 1000 Pack 
Edit: I've decided on using the 8g trim head SS screws. I've had enough of nail guns (and I've never even used one!). I think they've made it confusing on purpose as a safety measure, so novices like me don't bother with them.

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## Marc

That seems to be a framing gun, DA are finishing nails. You have to ask for a finishing gas gun if you want gas. Mitre ten sells single strip gun nails. Buy one strip of DA 50mm HDG and check it out if that is the nail you want. Then match the gun for it. Kennard desk jockeys know a bit about tools but nothing about the jobs, can't blame them, they learn by hearsay only.  Don't even try to ask Bunnings dudes.

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## Marc

> Edit: I've decided on using the 8g trim head SS screws. I've had enough of nail guns (and I've never even used one!). I think they've made it confusing on purpose as a safety measure, so novices like me don't bother with them.

  Ha ha, I hope it wasn't my fault. Screws will certainly work.

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## OBBob

What sort of driver are you going to use for the screws?  :Sneaktongue:        
Sorry.

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## Marc

Mm ... lets have a poll for best impact driver ... 5 pages later ... 
Run Smokyjoe, run ...  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> Thanks Marc. I'm trying to follow Metrix's advice, but it's still not clear to me which gun takes DA nails. Do you know if this one does? https://beta.kennards.com.au/tools/f...-cordless.html 
> If I can't work it out soon I'll give up and use these: Macsim 8 x 50mm Stainless Steel Trim Head Decking Screws - 1000 Pack 
> Edit: I've decided on using the 8g trim head SS screws. I've had enough of nail guns (and I've never even used one!). I think they've made it confusing on purpose as a safety measure, so novices like me don't bother with them.

  That kennards link is a framing gun, that takes framing nails and is for framing NOT picket fences, if you are after a gun to take DA nails you need a DA gun, go to kennards and ask them or call them ask if they hire DA finishing guns, they don't specifically say on their site which finish guns they hire, most places will hire the various finish gun options. 
Kennards are not experts on which tool is best for what they are not builders but sales staff, they know what tools they have, hire places usually deal with people who know what tool they want, then they simply supply you what you asked for. 
There are basically only two guns you would use for fencing including pickets these are Coil nailer and DA bradder, Coil nailer it always used for large fences such as 1.8m Pine Lap and Cap, you can use this gun for picket, but you will have to fill a larger hole, DA bradder is NOT suitable for Pine fencing as the nail head is too small, but work well for picket fencing. 
BTW those MACSIM TRIM screws are not very good, look at something of better quality such as Powers.  1000 Stainless Steel 304 Timber Merbau Decking Screws Trim Head 9G Gauge 53mm | eBay

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## smokyjoe

I tried (again) for the nail gun. I give up (again). 
I called Kennards. The guy had no clue what sort of finish guns they hired, but was able to tell me that they only hired Paslode nail guns. I asked if any of them took ND nails, but he wasn't able to answer that. I'm guessing this is the Paslode finishing gun he was referring to:  https://beta.kennards.com.au/nail-gu...-cordless.html , which as far I can tell, takes ND nails. I'd be happy to go with this if I could get ND nails in HDG or SS by Sunday (I need to do this sunday). I can't find anywhere in Melbourne where I could buy these in-store.  
I've backflipped more than a gymnast on this, but I'm back at screws. Stainless steel 8G trim head, pre-drilled and countersunk with a macsim 8g trim head smartbit, 2 per picket per rail, then filled with Plasti-Bond (as per Metrix's recommendation). Driven in by either my gutless Ozito cordless, or the tank of a hammer drill that used to be my grandfathers (single speed, forward-only). Hopefully with the trim head screw the bog will stay in for a while.

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## Marc

KENNARDS HIRE - Finishing Nail Guns - Cordless 
They sell the nails at kennards. 
This is the gun, code is B20160
Nails DA, not D, not C, not ND, not C1,  http://www.paslode.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=18&Cat=61

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## smokyjoe

> KENNARDS HIRE - Finishing Nail Guns - Cordless 
> They sell the nails at kennards. 
> This is the gun, code is B20160
> Nails DA, not D, not C, not ND, not C1,  Paslode Australia

  I'm fairly sure they'll be the electroplated galvanized, not HDG. Paslode don't seem to make a HDG DA nail. I can hire a gun to take ND nails, but again, I can't seem to find HDG ND nails. 
I rang Kennards again, and they don't have that nail gun. He doesn't think they have any DA nail guns.  
Screw it.

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## Marc

Well considering that Kennard rents the gun out for $45 a day I think you are better off buying a gun and renting the compressor if you don't have one.
Short of browsing the local Cash convertor, I say buy a Max NF665/15 for $330 or an Airco TTD1564 for $355
The max I think is made in Japan. Nails you go to the trade counter at Bunnings or total tools or any other tool shop will sell you gun and nails.

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## METRIX

> I tried (again) for the nail gun. I give up (again). 
> I called Kennards. The guy had no clue what sort of finish guns they hired, but was able to tell me that they only hired Paslode nail guns. I asked if any of them took ND nails, but he wasn't able to answer that. I'm guessing this is the Paslode finishing gun he was referring to:  https://beta.kennards.com.au/nail-gu...-cordless.html , which as far I can tell, takes ND nails. I'd be happy to go with this if I could get ND nails in HDG or SS by Sunday (I need to do this sunday). I can't find anywhere in Melbourne where I could buy these in-store.  
> I've backflipped more than a gymnast on this, but I'm back at screws. Stainless steel 8G trim head, pre-drilled and countersunk with a macsim 8g trim head smartbit, 2 per picket per rail, then filled with Plasti-Bond (as per Metrix's recommendation). Driven in by either my gutless Ozito cordless, or the tank of a hammer drill that used to be my grandfathers (single speed, forward-only). Hopefully with the trim head screw the bog will stay in for a while.

  Welcome to the construction industry, and the world of many tools that can do the same job,   :Smilie:  The Nail gun segment can be very confusing to the uninitiated. 
Paslode make two finish Gas guns, straight and angled, ND nails will go into the Straight version but NOT the angled Version, they don't make Angled ND nails, this is why I have a Straight Paslode finish gas gun specifically because they can take the ND nails. 
If you can hire a Straight Paslode finish gas gun, you can buy Stainless 50mm ND nails from Bunnings (not all of them stock these though) so you might have to get them through special orders, will probably take a week to deliver, the nails are B20665 ND50 SS 
If your going down the Screw path I would not use your grandfathers drill, you will demolish the screws, You need a proper impact drill with variable speed control. 
Square drive stainless screws are easily damaged, and hard to get out once you damage the heads, you need a proper drill for them. 
If you only have ozito rubbish, consider buying the 12V AEG kit, this has a drill and impact, not as strong as the big 18V versions, but will do what you want with ease, register the tools online and get 6 years warranty. 
After you finish this job you will have a good compact drill and impact for your next project.
Actually just checked Bumming's website and the kit no longer exists, it was $199, had the driver, an impact, charger, 1  2.0A battery and 1 x 4A battery. 
This is the kit, I have put a few people onto this kit, and they have been very happy with it https://aegpowertools.com.au/12v-2-p...-0ah-batteries

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## smokyjoe

> If you can hire a Straight Paslode finish gas gun, you can buy Stainless 50mm ND nails from Bunnings (not all of them stock these though) so you might have to get them through special orders, will probably take a week to deliver, the nails are B20665 ND50 SS 
> If your going down the Screw path I would not use your grandfathers drill, you will demolish the screws, You need a proper impact drill with variable speed control. 
> Square drive stainless screws are easily damaged, and hard to get out once you damage the heads, you need a proper drill for them.

  It seems like the smallest quantity of the SS ND nails is 2000. I only need about 600, so $200+ for SS nails it too much for me. Plus I really need to do it this weekend, and I've looked through the collated nails at several bunnings stores so far without sighting these, so I assume they would have to be ordered in. Nope, I'm going with screws. 
I will buy an impact driver though. Not sure I'll get the approval for a good cordless one. We've got a baby due in 4 weeks (part of the reason I need to do it this weekend) and still have a lot of stuff to buy. I'm planning to get this one: https://www.bunnings.com.au/bosch-65...drill_p6200213, otherwise it would be the cheapest Ozito impact cordless I can get. 
Edit: Actually, I'll get the blue for the extra $10: https://www.bunnings.com.au/bosch-bl...drill_p6200462

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## METRIX

To put it simply a 240v drill will not do what you want, they have no speed control like a cordless. 
You need a cordless to do what you want, preferably an impact not a regular cordless drill

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## OBBob

I was joking when I asked what sort of driver you would use ... but it is important. The pack Metrix suggested would be worth stretching for ... it'll save you time on the fence and guaranteed you'll find it useful for future minor repairs around the house.

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## METRIX

Yet another poor bugger under the thumb, just hire a paslode finishing gun from bunnings or wherever, use the gal nails put 4 per fixing point and leave it at that.

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## OBBob

The lesson with all of these things is budget first and include purchase of tools in every project ... any project of reasonable size that I embark on has a budget for tools and something gets upgraded.  :Smilie:

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## smokyjoe

> To put it simply a 240v drill will not do what you want, they have no speed control like a cordless. 
> You need a cordless to do what you want, preferably an impact not a regular cordless drill

  Damn. Ok, I'll get a cordless impact drill. Thanks for all of your advice.

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## Marc

Sometimes it is very difficult to help someone else to make a choice, particularly with tools, and very easy to make things worst for them. Clearly the cheapest route is hire a paslode finishing gun with galvanised nails, ND or DA is rather academic at this stage if this is to be done tomorrow. I never thought it was such an issue to hire a nail gun, then again, I never had to.

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## smokyjoe

> Sometimes it is very difficult to help someone else to make a choice, particularly with tools, and very easy to make things worst for them. Clearly the cheapest route is hire a paslode finishing gun with galvanised nails, ND or DA is rather academic at this stage if this is to be done tomorrow. I never thought it was such an issue to hire a nail gun, then again, I never had to.

  Hiring a nail gun isn't an issue. Finding finishing nails that will last outside is. All of the available off the shelf finishing nails that I have seen are electroplated galvanised, which won't last the distance outside (correct me if I'm wrong). In fact, on the side of the boxes of Paslode ND galvanised nails, it specifically says 'Not for outside use!'. 
Edit: And the staff don't make it easier. Clearly if I was experienced with nail guns I could work it out. But the guys at the hire shops seem to know less than me. I actually called my local bunnings yesterday to ask about hiring nail guns, and they told me they didn't hire them. Was down there later in the evening and saw no less than 4 nail guns for hire, with their hire prices written in large letters on the chalkboard. The bunnings staff don't even know that they hire them, let alone could answer a question on them!

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## METRIX

> Finding finishing nails that will last outside is. All of the available off the shelf finishing nails that I have seen are electroplated galvanised, which won't last the distance outside (correct me if I'm wrong). In fact, on the side of the boxes of Paslode ND galvanised nails, it specifically says 'Not for outside use!'.

  Correct 
They will last but not as long as proper galvanised, don't get me started on how many things chippies find that are not suitable for the task given, it's like the manufacturers don;t actually know what we need.
This is why I have at least six nail guns, and countless boxes of nails for them.   

> Edit: And the staff don't make it easier. Clearly if I was experienced with nail guns I could work it out. But the guys at the hire shops seem to know less than me. I actually called my local bunnings yesterday to ask about hiring nail guns, and they told me they didn't hire them. Was down there later in the evening and saw no less than 4 nail guns for hire, with their hire prices written in large letters on the chalkboard. The bunnings staff don't even know that they hire them, let alone could answer a question on them!

  Correct again, and is why I have at least six nail guns, so I don;t have to deal with these places. 
If you can stretch your budget to buy the AEG package I put up earlier you won't regret it. 
This is a good little kit with the best warranty on the market, the impact is powerful for a 12V, and the two drills are compact, you WILL use these for a lot of things later on, plus they are nice drills to use, unlike the cheap throw away rubbish they sell for $40. 
Think of the money you are saving building it yourself, then you can justify the small outlay on a decent set of compact drill / impact.

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## phild01

Everyone needs a good battery drill and impact driver kit.  I still like my AEG 18V kit, and it never lets me down.  Just don't go cheap with this sort of thing.

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## OBBob

The problem you've created is that you've shown yourself and others that you can do this stuff. There is now no limit to the things around the place you can 'improve'.   :Tongue:

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## OBBob

> Damn. Ok, I'll get a cordless impact drill. Thanks for all of your advice.

  So how'd you go?

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## smokyjoe

> So how'd you go?

  Good. And not so good. 
I only had about half a day yesterday to do it, and it rained a lot. However, I still thought I'd get more done than I did. I'm using 3 different drills. The old hitachi tank for the initial pilot hole, because I'm using a template, and the drill bit for the smart bit doesn't go deep enough to get through the template, the picket and the rail. Then I follow that up with the smart bit for the countersinking. And then the impact driver. So for the 50 pickets I put, that's 600 times I used a drill. No wonder it's slow. 
Here some pics of the work in progress:   
Still a fair bit to go:      
Unfortunately my spacing is not quite as accurate as my measurements were, and I didn't realise how far out I was until near the end of this run. You can see near the gate that my gaps get thin very quick, and whilst this post is dead straight, the pickets were a bit off. I'm going to try and move the last 1/3 or so pickets in this run to fix it, but I'm not if I can do this, and use the same screw holes on the pickets. Unless I move them a decent amount I'm going to too close to the existing holes in the rails.

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## OBBob

Yep, it always seems to straightforward in your head ... I still do that to myself. No one will notice the slight spacing difference. Looks good.

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## smokyjoe

> No one will notice the slight spacing difference.

  Ahh, but I will. And so will my wife. It's funny how you much you scrutinise your own work, but when I see a neighbours fence I take it in as a whole, on a high level, and don't notice the imperfections. If I remind myself to look closely, I notice the imperfections in what I've previously seen as a flawless example.

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## OBBob

I guess you take them off and so them all again... or perhaps you'll get used to it.   :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

This is a classic rookie mistake, need to take measurements as you go, this way you can adjust a mm here and there to adjust, did you use a block cut to size as a spacer ? 
If your in a rush you tend to make silly mistakes, Looks good otherwise, also is it the photo or are the rails on the side bent ? 
Also, I assume the gate hinges are on the Left side ?

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## OBBob

> ... also is it the photo or are the rails on the side bent ?

  That's what I thought! But on second look I think it's been arranged to follow a curved driveway.

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## smokyjoe

> This is a classic rookie mistake, need to take measurements as you go, this way you can adjust a mm here and there to adjust, did you use a block cut to size as a spacer ? 
> If your in a rush you tend to make silly mistakes, Looks good otherwise, also is it the photo or are the rails on the side bent ? 
> Also, I assume the gate hinges are on the Left side ?

  Yeah, I'll take more measurements. I've got 3 different spacers in slightly different sizes. My mistake was working out the gaps perfectly, then using spacers that match that gap. I think in reality there is an extra mm or so (e.g. When I used a 22mm spacer the gaps are more like 23mm).  
The rails are bent to follow the curve of the driveway. Gate hinge is on the left, so the diagonal on the frame points to the bottom of the post with the hinges.

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## METRIX

> Yeah, I'll take more measurements. I've got 3 different spacers in slightly different sizes. My mistake was working out the gaps perfectly, then using spacers that match that gap. I think in reality there is an extra mm or so (e.g. When I used a 22mm spacer the gaps are more like 23mm).  
> The rails are bent to follow the curve of the driveway. Gate hinge is on the left, so the diagonal on the frame points to the bottom of the post with the hinges.

  Probably when you screwed them on, the screws can pull the picket to one side, this can add a mm here and there. 
Remove the pickets, fill the holes with 4 or 5mm dowel glued in with exterior aquadhere , cut them flush with a chisel, and readjust pre drill the holes to ensure they go where you want. 
Also, some pickets may be slightly bigger than others, same happens with decking boards.
I'm assuming your going to bog the holes, ? if so you can drill new holes one above and one below the existing ones, saves you filling the holes, once bogged you won;t see anything

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## smokyjoe

Thanks for the tips. I'm planning on bogging them, but I'm not 100% that I will, hence why I want to keep the straight line of screws. I think I'll leave my mistake for now. If it annoys me too much before I get around to bogging the holes then I'll try and fix it then.

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## METRIX

It's a shame you mucked up the spacings, the rest of it looks perfectly lined up.

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## smokyjoe

> It's a shame you mucked up the spacings, the rest of it looks perfectly lined up.

  Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed about it. Still unsure whether I'll try and fix it or not. I could just put screws elsewhere in the pickets (up, down, sideways etc.) - This is fine if I bog the holes, and in fact, if I don't get around to bogging all of them, I could bog the new holes, leaving the current (possibly devoid of a screw) holes as they are to maintain the line

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## currumbinalley

Your fence looks beautiful. I am going to tackle a fence next week similar to yours and will be reading this post thoroughly

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## smokyjoe

> Your fence looks beautiful. I am going to tackle a fence next week similar to yours and will be reading this post thoroughly

  Thanks. I'm happy with it so far. But my advice is don't try it  :Smilie:  It's taken a LOT longer than I thought it would. If you're a novice like me, double whatever estimate you have as far as the amount of time it'll take. 
I made some more progress the other day. Still got a lot of screws to put in. The old hitachi drill died on me, so it was slow going with the cheapo cordless to pre-drill and countersink. I only got half the screws in, but it won't take long to drive the remaining screws in now that the pickets are up. I did better with the spacing this time, although I still had a few minor issues. Pics:   
I'm particularly happy with the side. I like the curve following the driveway, and I'm glad that (with the exception of the 1 short picket that I'll change later), I got the angles correct on that last bay. This time around I took the time to lay a board down on the ground, and get the right height/angle, so that I could just sit the pickets on it instead of holding it up with one hand and drilling with the other. Much easier. If I had a plinth it would have been even easier, but I couldn't due to a flood overlay. 
I asked my old man to make me up a couple of spacer boards of different thicknesses (21, 22, 23mm etc.). He ended up giving me a heap of these. I think it was better, as it allowed me to slowly adjust angles (e.g. put a 22mm on top rail, and 21mm on bottom) where I needed to:  
So I've still got to put in the remaining screws, then prime/bog/sand/paint about 600 screw holes. I'm not looking forward to that. I imagine it will take me a few days. I've also got the post tops to do (just got to paint them and use a spade bit to drill out the top of the posts). Oh, and the steel frame gate with pickets across the verandah. That bit is going to have wait a little while though.

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## lazydays

Looks good and you did it yourself. If you don't have a plinth board to help rest the pickets on while you fix them, you can always screw on some scrap timber or anything long and straight (old aluminium window frames or sliding curtain tracks) and use that as a rest.

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## David.Elliott

Gotta be happy with that result.  I would be!  
Spacings can be a bastard, I've struggled before...and as Metrix says, keeping a tape close by and measuring the distance remaining every 5 boards or so lets you gradually make adjustments...

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## smokyjoe

> Spacings can be a bastard, I've struggled before...and as Metrix says, keeping a tape close by and measuring the distance remaining every 5 boards or so lets you gradually make adjustments...

  That it does. I certainly took more measurements in my 2nd session of attaching pickets. Unfortunately on my last bay, I was rushing because the wife was whinging at me to come inside for dinner, and it was dark (I was using the light on my impact driver as a torch). I managed to misinterpret the spirit level when taking measurements on each side of my last remaining gap, and ended up adjusting the angle the wrong way. I managed to mostly fix my issue though.  
Lesson learned: don't try and rush to finish (especially in the dark).

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## smokyjoe

> If you don't have a plinth board to help rest the pickets on while you fix them, you can always screw on some scrap timber or anything long and straight (old aluminium window frames or sliding curtain tracks) and use that as a rest.

  I ended up just laying a picket on the ground, and shoving dirt/offcuts/whatever I could under it to get it to the right height at each end. But I also had a stringline across the top. I did the 3 outside pickets on each bay first (only because the closest 2 pickets to the post are higher than the rest), then put a tight stringline across the top, resting on top of the 3rd picket in from each post. Then laid the picket down, checking the height against the stringline continually as I went.

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## OBBob

Good effort... you'll be a lot quicker on the next job.

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