# Forum Home Renovation Asbestos  Beware of asbestos in old carpet underlay

## intertd6

Listening to the ABC radio last night & found out that the very large company which is now based elsewhere, had its asbestos delivered in hessian bags in the 50s & 60s sold the bags which were sometimes re-processed into carpet underlay & a number of other things which I cant remember.
regards inter

----------


## nww1969

> Listening to the ABC radio last night & found out that the very large company which is now based elsewhere, had its asbestos delivered in hessian bags in the 50s & 60s sold the bags which were sometimes re-processed into carpet underlay & a number of other things which I cant remember.
> regards inter

  I hope the admin team don't mind links to other sites but this will help with this thread.
This link below started off back in 2006 and was revisited because of the ABC report.
scroll towards the end and you will get a Industrial Hygienist comments on the matter.   http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23587

----------


## piscean

this is probably a really stupid question but what does hessian underlay look like? does it just look like regular hessian woven together but thick?  
I have the old style underlay in places but I thought it was jute? It's that light brown stuff that was really common years ago. Does hessian underlay look different?

----------


## That Floor Guy

The old style rubber underlay was lined with hessian, also it may well have been used in hair felt underlay. 
 Guess I'll just add it to the list of the rest of the crap i've breathed in over the years.

----------


## notsohandy

Like Piscean, I too would like to know what the underlay looks like. We pulled up hessian underlay 6 months ago, have a baby in the house and are now wondering if the deadly dust is stuck to our lounge, bed, cushions etc.  
I also want to know if it was widespread across Australia?  In some online articles I read it was only 30-50 bags recycled and then others say thousand+.  Which is correct?
The latest news leaves so many questions, a little bit of info creates a scare on a large scale, what are the facts?

----------


## pdoc

dam and i just pulled up 52m2 of this stuff hope it didn't have asbestos in it

----------


## That Floor Guy

I wouldn't worry about it, you'll probably be dead from brain cancer thanks to your mobile before Asbestosis kicks in!

----------


## wozzzzza

> I wouldn't worry about it, you'll probably be dead from brain cancer thanks to your mobile before Asbestosis kicks in!

   thats what im worried about, asbestos all over again but in this case brain cancer instead.  goes decades undetected then kills thousand or millions.

----------


## Bloss

Funny what irrational fear will do to people.  :Rolleyes:   
Firstly the 10mm or so thick felted brown fluffy looking carpet underlay with a coarsely woven hession backing to hold it together (and later polyester threaded mesh) was mostly jute as has been said but other fibres (NOT asbestos) were used too such as shredded copra (from coconuts).  
Small quantities, for a short period of time, and mostly in WA, had re-used hession bags that had once had asbestos fibres in them used to hold the felting together (roughly stitched on as I recall). So even if you had that underlay the risk is tiny - that's TINY. 
So stop letting the imagination run wild and *read the sticky*. 
And to boor you all again: i_f you do any work that would create any dust from whatever source use a suitable mask and safety precautions and the already minimal risk from this sort of exposure will become infinitesimal._ 
And if you have already ignored that often provided advice then it's too late anyway - fate has taken hold. Symptoms may or may not occur as there is no response to exposure or test to determine the outcome. 
Odd I know, but I call that 'life' - we are born, we all will die and we don't know when or from what cause.  :Frown:  My response is to take as much care as I can about the things I can control and don't worry or speculate about the things I can't - the bit in between I just enjoy.  :Kissing:  
So that's my little homily for the day - I'll be on me bike now.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Bloss

> thats what im worried about, asbestos all over again but in this case brain cancer instead.  goes decades undetected then kills thousand or millions.

  Biggest killer of millions aside from starvation is malaria - an eminantly preventable disease. 
Asbestos causes some nasty results, but the numbers of deaths are not in the millions even world wide - in Australia many fewer than we kill on our roads each year. 
Asbestos use has been banned in most countries since at least the mid '90s and many western countries since the '80s and knowledge of dangers and changed use happened in the 70s. There is around a 30-40 year gap between exposure and illness so numbers will go up and then drop. The peak will not be to far away as the greatest danger was those exposed for large amounts of dust for long periods - so in the industries mining and making products or the industries using them such as construction. 
Just some context. And don't start me on the relative risks and probabilities of RF and MR exposure from mobile phones!  :Rolleyes:  
Association is not cause and when we don't know I prefer not to make up an answer, just say I don't know and keep looking. Just like on the problems we try to get answers too on these forums. Worrying doesn't help, research does. 
Bugger! Got off me bike again - I'll pedal on along now I've done some more preachin' !  :Redface:

----------


## intertd6

Yes bloss there is alot of hype about asbestos & with your theory of it not being to much to worry about, let your grandkids roll around on some old carpet underlay which may or maynot contain some asbestos. The point is the company who let this stuff out into the public knowing full well what it did had a similar theory to you. I bet though  they never let their kids near the stuff.
regards inter

----------


## Bloss

> Yes bloss there is alot of hype about asbestos & with your theory of it not being to much to worry about, let your grandkids roll around on some old carpet underlay which may or maynot contain some asbestos. The point is the company who let this stuff out into the public knowing full well what it did had a similar theory to you. I bet though  they never let their kids near the stuff.
> regards inter

  Not sure how you would infer from my posts that I would let any kids roll around in carpet underlay or anything else with dust of any type about which I had uncertainty of the content. 
Nor could it be inferred from what I write that 'there is not too much to worry about' - I've never said such a thing. But it is true that people get irrationally fearful when the risks are very low - my aim always is to get people to use safety gear and proper handling procedures (including that if in doubt treat as if asbestos). 
A close friend of mine died from mesothelioma in the early '90s aged 39. he was a chippy who worked for many years from his apprenticeship on transportable homes constructed mainly of fibro sheeting. We can never know when the damage was done, but one of his regrets was that he (and most of the others in the workplace in country NSW) did not use the safety masks provided even from the '70s just after he started his apprenticeship "it was hot, uncomfortable and a nuisance when working and we were young and invincible" he said to me. Even then he was perplexed as only three of all the workers over 30 odd years died from asbestos related causes - like him they too were smokers. 
My argument is for commonsense and use of safety equipment. Failing to do so is a sackable offence in my view - but too many workplaces (and workers!) still don't care. 
The notion that I would a support James Hardie's actions (or governments for that matter who also knew and did nothing) or that my views are in any way similar is offensive and simply wrong.  :Frown:

----------


## intertd6

Bloss, asbestos is potentially lethal & and any exposure to it should be avoided, so the sooner it is all back where it came from the better. The stuff is better not touched by anybody who has not been trained to handle & dispose of it correctly. As far as risk goes if you contract any of the asbestos related diseases they are fatal & that is not low risk in anyone books. Anyone hearing something described as low risk without being properly trained in minimising the risks to themselves & the community is somewhat misleading.
regards inter

----------


## Carl

Asbestos may be in carpet underlay, however remember that it was contaminated through the re use of hessian bags. The amount would appear to be minimal. Asbestos testing can be conducted to determine whether it does contain asbestos or not. See notes of where we got our testing done Asbestos Testing by Safe Environments  This is only really necessary when doing any renovations. In any case the amount would appear to be minimal for this circumstance. Best thing t do if conducting any renovations would be to have someone to inspect and provide a report. Ours was done due to council requirements. Our asbestos inspectors gave us peace of mind, knowing that most houses have asbestos and are only an issue if disturbed. The following gives a good summation Asbestos Carpet Underlay Information | Safe Environments

----------


## Jeffagogo

> Like Piscean, I too would like to know what the underlay looks like. We pulled up hessian underlay 6 months ago, have a baby in the house and are now wondering if the deadly dust is stuck to our lounge, bed, cushions etc. 
> I also want to know if it was widespread across Australia? In some online articles I read it was only 30-50 bags recycled and then others say thousand+. Which is correct?
> The latest news leaves so many questions, a little bit of info creates a scare on a large scale, what are the facts?

  
With the carpet underlay, remember the Wittenoom asbestos mine closed in 1966...so any bags used in carpet underlay would probably used up by 1967-68 abouts. Carpet underlay from the 1970's onwards probably therefore is unlikely to contain asbestos. The pic above is 1960's vintage carpet and also in Perth (many bags may have ended up in Perth (speculating here)), so this would be a candidate if any there was.. and this what it looks like.
If you're keen on taking a carpet underlay sample for Lab analysis, Queensland Laboratory has a sampling method listed here: http://www.queenslandlab.com/news/ca...procedutre.pdf 
Regards, Jeff  Removing Asbestos: A guide to asbestos removal in Australia

----------

