# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Light globes constantly blow

## Cecile

We have a batten fix in the study, and the globe in this blows out frequently.  It blew another globe again this morning, and it was replaced less than a month ago.  We have been using good quality globes (I think this one is Philips) and in the past, Mirabella.  The fixture was rewired about two years ago by our electrician when we had to move the switch.  It's an old fixture, probably 30 or so years old. 
Any ideas?  I've been trying to get hold of the electrician but he's frantically busy at the moment.

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## Uncle Bob

What sort of lamps are they? Compact fluro, LED incandescent etc ?

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## Cecile

These are the new "eco" incandescent, quartz iodine.

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## Uncle Bob

Hi Again Cecile. 
The two biggest hates of incandescent lamps are over voltage and vibration.
Usually these are migrated by using higher voltage lamps (also known as long life) and in vibration areas, Rough Service lamps (used on boats and portable mechanics lights). 
Bros or one of the sparkies browsing here may wade in with further info, especially regarding transience high voltage that may be affecting your place.  
Are these lamps in service in any other lampholders in the house and are not blowing?

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## Cecile

> Are these lamps in service in any other lampholders in the house and are not blowing?

  Yes.  In our bedroom ceiling fitting (also batten fix, been up there for the same 30 years), the desk lamp (which does jiggle on this makeshift desk) and my bedside lamp.  Globes last well in these, hence why I thought there might be an issue with the wiring in the ceiling. 
I also can't recall if this was occurring before we had the switch relocated.

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## Uncle Bob

If the light fitting that has blowing lamps is doing similar hours to the non-blowing fittings, then you may need to get the sparkie back to investigate.

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## phild01

> These are the new "eco" incandescent, quartz iodine.

  I won't buy the halogen lamps any-more for the same reason that they just don't last very long (maybe a month or so).  In fact I put it down to supply voltage.  Not every home enjoys 220-240 volts.  My supply is around 250v and bulbs aren't the only thing that don't last that long. Several switch mode power supplies to my audio equipment have hit the dust as well. 
Incidentally several Philips outdoor lamps I had been getting from Bunnings also kept blowing out.  I contacted Philips and they sent me the same type replacement lamps. These are still going strong.  I guess some things are unexplained.

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## Smurf

Possibly it's a voltage issue since these halogen lamps are very sensitive to over voltage. 
Vibration also kills them quickly. 
Personally, I'd just switch to CFL or LED and see if that fixes the problem. Most likely it will. Or if you really want incandescent then you can still obtain the rough service type - try looking online (just make sure that anything you buy is 240V).

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## chalkyt

Hi Cecile, this might be a bit left field, but rewiring the light fitting and moving the switch go right to the top of the "index of suspicion" pile IMO.  
The age of the fixtue (30 years +) suggests maybe old single core wiring (1/044 or something like that). So where I am coming from is that this stuff breaks fairly easily when a screw bites into it. We have all had situations where something has been connected but doesn't work yet it all looks O.K. , only to find that a conductor has broken or is only making touch contact intermittently. Such a situation could result in an arcing contact (a bit like a mini-welder) with resulting "hash" that might upset the halogen lamps. Similarly it is possible for an aged (or faulty) switch to do the same thing. You can sometimes hear the buzzing when this happens. (Electrical apprenticeship fault finding 101... Look first, then listen, then touch!). 
Like I said, a bit left field and I don't really know much about the likes and dislikes of quartz iodine lamps, but it might be worth getting the electrician to check the connections etc.

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## Bros

Overvoltage and vibration are the killers. I haven't had a lot of success with halogen lamps in fact I have an external 250w halogen and I have got sick of replacing lamps so I just rely on the nearby fluro's. 
I have now idea why mine fail as the lamps are 240v rated and at a max voltage of 247 should last a considerable time but they don't. Mine never fail when going just fail sometime between switch off and switch on.

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## Uncle Bob

Maybe halogens just don't last due to the heat they make.

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## Cecile

> old single core wiring

  Thanks for the input.  Wiring is all new but the batten fix isn't.  We're due to have more work done shortly, so I'll follow it all up then.  In the short term it's more an annoyance than anything.

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## Smurf

I'm not keen on halogen lights generally, simply because they are so damn fussy. 
Linear halogen tubes not level? It will break or burn out. Enclosure gets too hot (easy to do when you've got 500W of heat being produced inside a small box)? The contacts break. Some of them don't like being dimmed either. 
For the 240V BC / ES bulbs it's much the same. Run them at 240V with no vibration and they'll be fine. Run them at 250V or give them a wobble and you'll be forever changing globes.  
In short, I can't think of any other electrical item which is as fussy as halogen lamps. They work fine in a lab or a perfect installation, but in the real world they are trouble, trouble and more trouble. Don't even mention halogen downlights and all the things that go wrong with them. Nothing but trouble. 
LED is the real solution but at least quality CFL's should last a reasonable time in normal use. Failing that, rough service incandescent lamps - inefficient (but not much worse than halogen) but at least they're reasonably reliable and will tolerate normal variations in voltage without going "pop" too quickly.  
A challenge. Go to someplace with a lot of halogen lamps in use. A shop, salon or whatever - there's plenty of them so finding one should be easy. Now find a place where all of the halogen lights actually work - much more difficult. These things are simply very high maintenance. 
Maybe there's a problem with the wiring. But quite likely it's just high mains voltage (250V or thereabouts).

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## Moondog55

Just started replacing the globes in the house with LED lamps; starting with this room. I took the glass lampshades off as well as they had bugger-All airflow and were as hot as Hades inside the fitting. So excess heat may have had some bearing on the short life span too. 
These are the Phillips LED having taken note of the warnings about the cheap Mirabella lamps, very bright for a 10W LED and good spread too, they throw a deep and sharp shadow

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## Overkill

Is your house near the start of a street that doesn't join up with another street for quite a way? Back in the early days of computers, the boss installed a fancy office computer, which proceeded to blow up it's power supply almost every week. We finally found the mains voltage was around 260V and the reason was that the office was at the beginning of a long street that ran down a valley. The only feed was right outside our office and the electricity company had jacked up the voltage so that the houses at the far end of the street got about 240V. Whether that's your situation or not, its well worth checking the voltage as the power supplies in those expensive LED lamps might die earlier than expected on a higher voltage.

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## Smurf

> the electricity company had jacked up the voltage so that the houses at the far end of the street got about 240V.

   That's a pretty common practice although it shouldn't go over 253V. 
Sometimes it is done by measuring actual voltages at various points. 
 Sometimes it is simply done seasonally - eg in Tas there are situations where the voltage tap is simply changed twice a year - put it up in Autumn and back down again in Spring (noting that load in Tas is much higher in Winter than in Summer whereas it's the reverse in other states). 
And then there's temperature. Eg push the voltage up to maximum whenever it's below 4 degrees regardless of actual load. The rationale is simply to make sure that heating appliances keep people sufficiently warm lest they end up cold and decide to switch to wood or gas to heat the house.  
I remember back in the 1990's we had a cheap and nasty fan heater that was used of an evening. You could easily tell when it was below about 4 degrees outside simply by looking at the heater. If it was glowing  red hot then it was a cold night - they had simply cranked up the voltage in response to temperature. I measured it once - 252V whereas at other times it was lower.

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## rhancock

I'm following this thread as we moved about 2 years ago, and it seems like we've gone through 10 times as many light bulbs in the new house as we did in 10 years in the old house. 
My question is, how does a non expert check the voltage?

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## Overkill

The 'proper' thing to do is call an electrician, who will tell you the voltage in about 10 seconds and can probably offer some practical advice if there is a problem. On the other hand, you can avoid the sparkie's call-out fee with a $4.95 multimeter from jaycar: Mini Digital Multimeter - Jaycar Electronics. You just need to set it to the AC voltage range and poke the probes into a wall socket to see what the voltage is.

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## Moondog55

I would think that was only worthwhile doing if you had a multimeter with data monitoring and lots of storage space. Voltage would need to be monitored for at least a week I would have thought. Also wouldn't it need to be read and monitored at the service inlet from the supplier?
I'm fairly sure we are not getting consistent voltage but who does when connected to the mains???

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## Overkill

That's probably over-thinking the problem. The peak voltage will be at the time of lowest demand (lowest current draw), so maybe during the day, when everyone is off at work. On the other hand, rhancock probably won't be using many lights at that time, so its not very relevant. Bulbs tend to blow when they are switched on, so I would be doing a few spot checks from early evening. I once used a data logger to track voltage in a data centre and they are expensive pieces of kit that many electricians would have to hire, making it an expensive proposition. 
The other explanation could be heat, as mentioned above. If the fittings are more enclosed in the new house, the bulbs could be running hotter, which will definitely reduce their lifespan. 
You wouldn't need to monitor the voltage at any particular point unless the circuit you are checking has a heavy load on it, probably best to turn off major appliances though.

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## rhancock

Thanks, team.  I can't see how spending $5 is going to be a waste so I'll get one next time I drive past a Jaycar.  I'll try it at different times of day over a period and see what comes out. 
One of the bulbs which blows most often is the bulb in the centre of the bathroom ceiling extractor fan, which probably suffers from heat and vibration, so it might be that. 
Somewhere above, Uncle Bob said: The two biggest hates of incandescent lamps are over voltage and vibration. Usually these are migrated by using higher voltage lamps (also known as long life) and in vibration areas, Rough Service lamps (used on boats and portable mechanics lights). 
Where can I get these 'higher voltage lamps' or Rough Service lamps?  The bathroom light is in near constant use with 6 of us in the house, and when it blows the kids just switch on the heat lamps instead which just suck electricity, so I'd kind of like to find a long term solution.  I'm even considering installing a different light fitting and give up on the lamp in the extractor.

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## Moondog55

While I think removing the heavy glass covers from our light fittings may have solved our problem I will stick the probes into various outlets and check the voltage over the next few days just to check.

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## Uncle Bob

> Where can I get these 'higher voltage lamps' or Rough Service lamps?

  A decent electrical wholesaler should have them. There's some here General, Incandescent , Standard GLS Lamps - Browse online Lamp Replacements 
But, if I remember correctly those fanlights thingies, take an R80 reflector lamp (Which you probably wouldn't be able to find 260V or RS).

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## Moondog55

Been monitoring most of the day, whenever I think of it. Lowest V was 241 highest V was 247
Just now at 16:24 it was 246V and when I switched on the electric kettle it dropped to 243V
Quiet in the area today, no-one welding or grinding or using power tools

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## Uncle Bob

That's a little high, but looks within scope (230V +10/-6 %).
You don't live by a railroad or main road with trucks do you?

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## Moondog55

Railway line is at the end of the street and trucks use Station Street parallel to the train line all day everyday

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## oldtrack123

> That's a little high, but looks within scope (230V +10/-6 %).
> You don't live by a railroad or main road with trucks do you?

  HI Bob 
Yes your calcs are right based on a 230V supply 
Howver many supplier are still working on 240V We have a steady 250V &up to 254V
right now it is 250V. 
Yes vibratiion can have a definate effect on filament life 
Frequent switching on & off with the coldstart surge current is the cause of some premature failure 
Solar power in the area could be boosting the line voltage .But tis would only be a problem with lights that were on during the daysI  
PeterQ 
PeterQ

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## phild01

I might suggest anyone wanting to measure their voltage, it would be better to buy a plug in power useage meter like this. NEW 10A LCD Power Meter Track Your Power Usage | eBay
 These are cheap and can be left safely for continuous monitoring.  I don't think the cheap multimeter idea is the way to go.

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## Moondog55

I'm not using a cheap multimeter but I admit AC stops at 600V and not the 5 & 20kV of the unit some sparkies use and I just added that little unit to my watch list

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## phild01

> I might suggest anyone wanting to measure their voltage, it would be better to buy a plug in power useage meter like this. NEW 10A LCD Power Meter Track Your Power Usage | eBay
>  These are cheap and can be left safely for continuous monitoring.  I don't think the cheap multimeter idea is the way to go.

  What concerns me is that the probes of any multimeter can loosen up exposing the wire connectors at the finger grips. Also, the leads may dislodge at the meter end leaving 240v exposed to any possibility.  Yes, I do it and I know it can be dangerous (yeah, _do as I say, not as I do!)_.  However, I wouldn't recommend to others to use a multimeter, especially a first time user of one.

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## Smurf

Agreed with what others have said about multi-meters. A great tool but potentially very dangerous in inexperienced hands. 
I'm not going to say "don't do it" (even though I'm an electrician) but I'll say "get someone who knows what they're doing to assist you". 
And, of course, practice using the meter itself to measure small DC voltages (small batteries etc) before even thinking about measuring the mains power supply with it. A racetrack in a car with 500+ horespower isn't the place for someone who has never driven a car before and likewise mains power isn't the place to be learning about meters. Learn to drive an ordinary car on a quiet street and learn to use meters starting out with small batteries etc. Leave the mains until you're absolutely confident you know how to do it safely.

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## Overkill

I can't believe how 'Nanny State' people are getting! Using a multimeter to measure AC mains is no more dangerous than changing a light bulb and much less dangerous than most of the power tools we all use.

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## phild01

> I can't believe how 'Nanny State' people are getting! Using a multimeter to measure AC mains is no more dangerous than changing a light bulb and much less dangerous than most of the power tools we all use.

   Are you kidding me, I am one of the most anti-nanny state minded people around.  It's all very well for us to flinging our multimeter cables around and screwing the prods back every time they come loose or repair the odd fray of cable, but for someone new to the world of multimeters, I consider that dangerous situations may happen.  I think I made it clear that the lead could dislodge from the multimeter.  Lets see what's handy to rest it on while I stick the probes into the socket and then for some unexpected reason the multmeter takes a tumble.  Would you make up a mains cable with a 3pin plug at each end!  As I said, I do measurements this way as well but I am aware of the dangerous events that may happen.  Where do you get nanny state from my concern, did I say legislation should be considered.

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## Overkill

Just how old is your multimeter  :Smilie: ? All new meters (even the cheapo one I linked to) come with moulded probes that can't unscrew and the meter & plugs have shrouds to prevent accidental contact - you'd have to really WANT to get a shock off a modern meter! My point is that if we tell noobs that its too dangerous to do something, how are they ever going to get any experience? Its better to provide some instruction and encouragement, so they learn & progress. 
"Where do you get nanny state from my concern, did I say legislation should be considered." Sounds like privatised nannying to me  :Smilie:

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## Smurf

> I can't believe how 'Nanny State' people are getting! Using a multimeter to measure AC mains is no more dangerous than changing a light bulb and much less dangerous than most of the power tools we all use.

   It's a safe thing to do if you know how to do it safely but is potentially dangerous for someone with no knowledge on the subject. 
Just like landing a large plane is relatively safe if you're a trained pilot but is not something the average person without training should attempt to do.

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## Overkill

There seems to be a real mystique surrounding multimeters. Planes have hundreds of controls & take thousands of hours to get trained on. Cars have dozens of controls and take hundreds of hours to get trained on. The average multimeter has 1 to 6 controls and it takes minutes to learn how to take a voltage reading. Here is everything a new user needs to know: 
Read the manual (yes really!)  *Warnings*: 
Have a healthy respect for electricity; what you can't see CAN kill you. 
Do not, at any stage, hold the probe tips or any other exposed metal on the meter. 
Do not use the meter if it, or the probes, are damaged. 
Do not operate in the rain (a real warning on my band saw). 
Check that the meter is capable of measuring the voltage you expect to find. 
Do not allow children to play with the meter.  *Set-up:* 
Turn the power point off. 
Place the black probe lead in the 'Common' socket of the meter. Place the red probe lead in the socket indicated for measuring voltage (you DID read that manual, right?) 
NEVER connect either lead to a socket marked for measuring current while attempting to measure voltages. 
Switch the meter on and turn the rotary switch to the AC voltage range, usually marked V~ (I'm assuming its an auto-ranging meter).  *Measuring mains voltage:* 
Place the meter where you can see the display and the power socket at the same time. 
Hold both the probes in one hand, keeping your fingers well back from the probe tips. 
Push one probe all the way into one of angled slots of the power point. Always assume that the other probe tip is live at this stage and take extra care not to touch it! 
Push the other probe tip all the way into the other angled slot. Even if the probes appear to be firmly stuck in the power point, keep one hand on them to ensure they do not fall out. 
Switch the power point on. 
Observe the voltage reading, which may take a few seconds to stabilise.  *Clean-up:* 
Never leave the probes connected and unattended! Children or co-workers may get electrocuted. 
Pull both probes out of the power point at the same time, being careful not to touch the tips. 
Switch the meter off and put it away.  
See how easy that was? Just a bit of common sense and 19 lines of simple instructions will keep first-time users safe.

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## chalkyt

Yep, got to agree that some multimeter leads and probes are dodgy. I carry an old analogue (read meter with a scale) multimeter in my kit with a Fluke in a pack if I really need it. I have replaced the old multimeter leads with fluke leads because they are robust and the original leads frayed and exposed copper where they entered the probes... ouch!! Also, with some probes you need to grind the pin thickness down so that they actually fit into a GPO. So, the use of multimeters is not as straightforward as you might think, especially if you are playing with 240V+. By the way, about the first thing that I learned about AVOs (flash name for a high quality multimeter) was that it is a good practice to leave the multimeter on the highest voltage range when not in use. That way, if you get a bit absent minded you won't plug the ohms setting into mains voltage!!!!

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## phild01

> By the way, about the first thing that I learned about AVOs (flash name for a high quality multimeter) was that it is a good practice to leave the multimeter on the highest voltage range when not in use. That way, if you get a bit absent minded you won't plug the ohms setting into mains voltage!!!!

  Have done this ever since my first meter,.... only because I forget things  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): .

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