# Forum Home Renovation Rendering  Advice on rendering a fireplace

## tryingtorenovat

Hi there, 
I'm hoping someone can give us some advice about our living room fireplace. The original fireplace was covered in bricks at some point in the past.  We've removed the bricks as we're wanting to restore it to an original-style decorative fireplace.  In removing the bricks quite a bit of the render has come off and we're not sure how to fix this.   
We've had two tradespeople come look, one said he could fix just the parts that have come off, the other said that wouldn't work and all the old render should be removed and the entire brickwork re-rendered.  He quoted $1,500 for doing this. 
Do we need to remove all the old render and have it re-done?  And if so, what's a resonable estimate for this work (ceilings are 3m high)? 
Thanks very much (in anticipation of your responses)  :Biggrin:

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## johnc

You should get away with a repair, most of the new work will be hidden anyway. You will need to work out what you are going to do and then fix the brickwork, then plaster. Is it going to be an open fireplace, open with cast iron insert, or a closed unit?

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## tryingtorenovat

Thanks for your response John.  It's going to be open with a cast iron insert and mantle.  The mantle (sitting on a slab of marble for the hearth) will just cover the exposed edge on the face at the top.  We're also going to have cabinets built on either side of the fireplace so it'll only be a small strip on each side of the mantle that is visible. 
We were quoted $420 for the patch work, does this sound reasonable?

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## johnc

I don't know if the price is what you would normally expect, and my solid plastering experience is limited and not from household work plus a long time ago as well. However the price sounds reasonable (but not cheap) for the mucking around involved, the problem with small jobs is they take as long as larger ones simply because of the drying time and waiting around. I assume whoever is doing the job will do a sand cement base plus a hard plaster final coat. Plastering onto old dry bricks is not always a plus because they dry more quickly and can give a few problems as a result. 
We have marble hearths as well, easy to install and give a nice result.

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## tryingtorenovat

I'll confirm that they're doing the sand cement base and hard plaster coat before going ahead. 
Can I ask how you installed your marble hearths?

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## johnc

One hearth is raised and is a separate marble top, with front and sides. This was timber framed with cement sheet nailed on and the marble fixed with silicone and grouted joints. The second was a single piece again with Villaboard over floor boards using silicone. That one also had a marble fireplace fixed again with a mix of silicone and cornice adhesive depending on the joint. Marble to marble silicone, marble to plaster cornice adhesive.

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## tryingtorenovat

Our hearth is a single thick piece of marble that we were planning on laying directly onto the floor.  If we used silicone on the bottom where the marble sits on the floorboards and cornice adhesive on the back where it sits against the fireplace plaster, will that work? 
Turns out the plasterer wasn't going to use cement and hard plaster (not really sure what he was planning on doing), so we have someone else coming to have a look next week. 
Thanks again for all your help! Will post a couple of photos once its all done.

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## johnc

Just silicone on the floor will be fine, anything you like where it meets the fireplace. Traditionally something like white cement, but these days anything including caulk and grout will do it. Don't get to excited about the plaster, just ask how they are going to do it, there aren't a lot of solid plasters out there, and this is just a patch up job.

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## johnc

How to fit a marble hearth, 
Most hearths will have the fireplace surround sitting on them so they need to be level. This can be a problem in older houses with walls and floors out of plumb from movement over the years. 
1. Mark the position on the floor with a pencil or piece of tape at the corners ensuring everything is centered properly.
2. You need to ensure level. get some sheet lead if you can (about 3mm thick at most) and cut four pieces about 10mm square. Place these approximately 10mm in from each corner and place the hearth on top and check for level. Adjust the lead by adding a little more or flattening what you have. A hammer is handy as is folding the lead and beating down to fit. Remember only thump the lead, never try to adjust by belting the marble.
3 Remove hearth and apply silicone to the floor. Cut about 15mm of the nozzle tip to get a nice fat bead and lay in an s or U patten keeping the runs about 30mm to 40mm apart to ensure plenty of support under the marble to allow for logs and feet to stand on the marble without cracking. I prefer natural cure or plumbers silicone as marble stains easily however I doubt there is sufficient acid in the fast cure stuff to cause a problem. Place marble on silicone and jiggle about until it sits on it's lead packers and is in position.
3. Get something like Dunlop coloured silicone matched to the colour of the stone. For a tidy edge mask along the face of the marble and the back edge. You want to make sure you keep the bead off the face for a tidy look, and place a strip of masking tape along the floor for easy clean up. Apply the silicone and scratch square with the square back of a small tool or piece of squared off plastic. Don't round as you would in a bathroom (unless you really want the look. Remove tape while wet and the jobs done. Keeping the silicone square at the rear reduces the amount of dirt that will sit at the back and make it easier to brush off. 
If you haven't any sheet lead then melt a couple of sinkers and pour them onto something flat, you don't need much. You could also ask the plumber for a small piece of flashing lead. 
Hope that helps.

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## autogenous

What a mess.  Youll have to rebuild the smoke shelf.  It looks like its float and set.   
Throw a bit of Fondu in the brick mortar and float to help with the heat.  
Etch the old bricks with a weak acid solution 20 parts water to 1 part Hydro acid.  Im told by the old boys the old bricks used to attain some sort of waxy coating but don't know what exactly that is, maybe one of the many old recipes such as millers flour. 
Wet the walls and bang on the float.  The set may be a Dado cement set but looks like standard white set. 
Ps.Fondu in GP will bomb it much faster but you are only doing  a small section.

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## tryingtorenovat

I've been a bit slow to add pictures of the finished product, but here they are: 
After the render was repaired   
with the hearth, insert and mantle  
We've since had the wall and cabinets painted but our memory card reader is broken and I can't get the pics off the camera! 
Thank you so much for all your assistance.  We're really happy with the result (what a difference it makes to the room!!) and for complete novices are feeling pretty pleased with ourselves. 
Now for the next project......

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## goldie1

Nice one

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## Middoes

WOW, Great job looks amazing.. The book shelves match great with the fire place.. :2thumbsup:

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## jcd71

Mate it looks fantastic, a question, how did you secure the Fire Grate (insert) to the Brick, I too am currently doing the same at my place?

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## Black Cat

Looks great - how did you handle the old hearth (which is clearly below floor level). I am presuming you did not leave the hearth sitting in mid-air apart from the end supports. I ask as I have a similar challenge yet to face at my place and it would be quite nice to get at least one hearth functional, in addition to the one with the Woodheater in it ...

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