# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Levelling and Puddle Flange

## zzkazu

I have just removed my old tiles on my concrete slab,  I have purchased a levelling compound to even out lumps and dumps.  Do I need to have the new puddle flange installed when I pour the levelling compound?  Or can I wait when I do the screeding.. 
thanks

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## Pulse

you don't really need onea puddle flange with a concrete slab, they are more for fixing to fibre cement floors.  
cheers pulse

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## Oldsaltoz

Pulse is spot on, only required on floors that are above ground, so an old Queenslander or modern home with a raised timber floor will need one. 
On a concrete floor the 'normal practice' is to cut the waste pipe off level with the floor and waterproof down into the wast pipe with some extra fabric membrane. 
I have installed puddle flanges in concrete floors but only because the waste pipe had been damaged near the end. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## zzkazu

Thanks for the responses.  One thing that is puzzling me is, how does the water that seeps through the screed onto the waterproofing membrane get into the waste.  
thanks - first bathroom as you can tell.

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## Oldsaltoz

Question:
how does the water that seeps through the screed onto the waterproofing membrane get into the waste. 
Answer: 
The plastic retainer that holds the waste grate has slots cut into the sides, water is drawn to the waste outlet via capillary action.
It is most important that the slots are in place on all bases sealed before screed is places, the result of not allowing the base to drain is two fold, the water and chemical cleaning products will sit on the waterproofing membrane and can effect it the long term, particularly the over the counter stuff that comes with little or no warranty.
The other problem is that a mould like substance forms in the permanent wet zone, the smell of this is that stale air smell you get in some old bathrooms. 
Hope this helps. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:   
Shower bases that are waterproofed after the screed do not have this problem

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## zzkazu

Thanks OldSaltoz,  our old bathroom had this smell as water was sitting on the tin base. 
Noting I'm more inclined for overkill is it worthwhile waterproofing before and after screed installation just in case the top membrane fails? 
thanks for the wisdom...

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## Oldsaltoz

> Thanks OldSaltoz,  our old bathroom had this smell as water was sitting on the tin base. 
> Noting I'm more inclined for overkill is it worthwhile waterproofing before and after screed installation just in case the top membrane fails? 
> thanks for the wisdom...

  In all my years as a waterproofer I have never ever put a double seal down, and we provide a written no fuss warranty. 
Get a professional and avoid the worry. 
Good luck  :Smilie:

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## smacd3010

> you don't really need onea puddle flange with a concrete slab, they are more for fixing to fibre cement floors.  
> cheers pulse

  not too sure about that one - i thought that in victoria a puddle flange was a no-no in bathroom floors but in NSW it was a must? - I'd check what your state requirments are just in case - it'd be a right pain to not install one then find out at inspection that it was a requirement. 
this is just from conversation with a builder giving me a hand to get my place finished on time (got to love it when work cancels your two months of leave and you try and build a house/shed around shift work  :Rofl5:

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## Oldsaltoz

> not too sure about that one - i thought that in victoria a puddle flange was a no-no in bathroom floors but in NSW it was a must? - I'd check what your state requirments are just in case - it'd be a right pain to not install one then find out at inspection that it was a requirement. 
> this is just from conversation with a builder giving me a hand to get my place finished on time (got to love it when work cancels your two months of leave and you try and build a house/shed around shift work

  The Australian Standard advised puddle flanges are required on all waste outlets on timber floors, this includes timber floors with tile underlay over them. 
It's also important to recess the flange when fitting so water will drain properly. If installing one under tile underlay, use the flange to draw a circle on the underlay and cut 20 mm outside the line, this will recess the flange and leave a good area for sealing compound before waterproofing. 
All timber floors must be fully sealed, 
Compressed fibre sheet also has to have a flange installed, marl the floor using the puddle flange and grind 4 mm down (I use a cup grinder) this will recess the flange befor sealing the full fill floor. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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