# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Neighbours built pergola against my wall

## woodhunt

Hi, 
Popped this in here as I'm feeling like the nitpicking neighbour from hell and couldn't really classify this as anything else... 
I am also posting here since for the immediate time being as I would like to assess the situation and how I will tackle it first and would like this confidential.  The last time I sent an email to council regarding garbage collection I was rung up the next day! My email is not linked to any council records... 
The other day I heard chiseling against my wall- neighbour wouldn't answer the door so I had to climb on my roof to see what they were doing. 
When I got there I couldn't see them as they had built an enclosed pergola with a tinted laserlite roof that runs 4-5 metres along my double brick wall, enclosing a 1.5m paved area that runs alongside their rear one level addition. 
I had always wondered why they sounded so loud in their backyard- It's cause it's been turned into a room, complete with meshed security door at end (also obviously attached to my wall). 
When asked about this the continual response is that it was there when the house was purchased.  I know it definitely wasn't there when I purchased my house 14 years ago, and they purchased the house some 10 yrs back. 
These are two victorian double brick houses, mine a single level freestander, hers a double storey terrace joining a row.  My house is approx. twenty years older than hers. 
Now my questions are- 
1- (a)If I have foundation sandstone that juts from the wall and is/was marked as a 5.5 cm boundary on her overhead council drawing that was included on the auction brochure, there is no way she can claim any kind of easement or right of support (as it is directly attached to my wall with no posts) if it has been there that long?  Would the removal of the row of bricks (presumably marking the boundary as it is line with their house and the council drawing) make any difference? 
    (b)Does time have any bearing on an illegal construction and would council make them remove it if they had knowledge of it? 
2- I have gas pipes that run alongside this wall that are approx. 50cm high, the chiseling was due to the brother taking out a row of bricks that would presumably mark their boundary line and possibly give protection to the pipes.  What would legal standing be if  I now have knowledge of this 'room' and they damage the pipes or sandstone if they try to claim my awareness as acquiescence and responsibility?   The brothers explanation for removing the row was to 'make more room for furniture', so I am presuming that since the brother has recently moved in they are looking at this as their new kitchen eating area- I would not be looking forward to this as they are constantly talking very loudly in that room in Cantonese as it is. 
3- If I have to run electrical conduit and wiring at this point to the rear of my house, would she have any say if I own that air space? 
4- They have also nailed a large hanging flower basket (and I mean just nailed into masonry, no drilling) into the side of my wall and put 20cm raised garden beds along the remainder of the wall outside this 'atrium' room- is there anything you can do not withstanding how long these have been here (have had damp and borer issues in my floorboards probably since these have been there since they also said that these were also there when they bought).   
Cheers,
Garth

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## jago

1a Auction brochures are not a legal document in terms of land surveys, you will need a surveyor to check the land and easements to establish if any encroachments has happened it is a very grey area.
1b an illegal structure is an illegal structure time is of no matter.
2 contact your local gas authority supplier 
3 From memory you don't own the air space unless its strata, which is all you own.
4 If its a party wall they can do pretty much what they wish as long as it does not interfere with the structual stability of your property and it it meets local and state codes. 
IMO I would call council and discuss you concerns they can advise you what if anything they can do

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## woodhunt

Hi Jago,
Was just posting in to clarify some stuff and you beat me too it!  Thanks for a fast reply! 
1a- it was a photocopy of the councils diagram, an attachment to the brochure. From my dealings with solicitors I was merely to point out that if this wasn't detailed on the council surveyors diagram then she should have satisfied herself to the details of the construction and all responsibilities it entailed at time of purchase.  This kind of thing is regardless of what information is on the brochure or any attachment. 
1b- was going to note that the only right of support that exists on my property title is with my other neighbour for one of those 'dunny run' pathways that separates our double brick walls.
Also as a side note-
I also have a brick wall at the front of my house that was built in the forties/fifties, although it was matched in style to the front of the house.
Couldn't find any council details- could have been illegal for all I knew and before I found an original thirties photo of the house it looked like I was going to have a hard time convincing council what would have been there, so there are exceptions and sometimes it just depends how/who puts the case forward.  
2- I don't think my gas supplier would have a clue- second last time I contacted them they left an underground leaking gas supply for two years until someone admitted it was their responsibility and came to fix it (it specified up to point of supply that is specified as the meter- they finally came out when I found and pointed out their fine print). 
I know that if they damaged it without my knowledge it would be their fault, but this question was pointed towards what happens if I know and fail to take any actions (ie request illegal structure dismantled/contract of liability drawn up etc)- does this change liability? 
An example of this is notification of dangerous tree (falling type, not harry potter/poltergeist ones)- if you notify the neighbour and they do nothing they are liable, but if you don't notify then it's your insurance that is to cover it (although I've taken this from anecdotal posts of what has happened to people on this forum, not looked up legislation so take this with a grain...). 
3- I used the term air space incorrectly or without additional clarification- my sandstone foundations stand out 5.5cms, my fascia 3cm, it is on my side of property line (it was a shingled cottage that would have had a wider separation from any other building when it was built compared to when the 1890 terrace was built next to it- the terrace/property line is set back 5.5cm from my double brick wall-definitely NOT a party wall although it's starting to sound like it noise wise). 
4- as noted in 3 it's my wall and it isn't even on the property line- I have 5 odd cms of sandstone and overhanging fascia of my house sitting there. 
I've read various details and cases regarding easements, but can't find  anything where there is an established part of the building with a  neighbour 'squatting' on top of it.  I would have guessed that they  would be obviously aware of it, the questions are more directed towards  what would be prudent action now that it is knowledge that I am aware of  it.  If I felt was no cause of responsibility, any loss on my part or  possible detriment or damage to my property or land title then I  wouldn't be so curious about it. 
 In fact ideally if it's not supposed to be there and there were absolutely no adverse consequences I would be happy if  they wanted to keep it there to not use it as a room but a sheltered  walkway with no arguing/talking involved- they are going over their setback in the first place... 
Cheers,
Garth   

> were absolutely no adverse consequences

   Let's put this another way in terms of liability; 
What if I had a house fire and my insurance company turned around and  picked out a technical clause to do with illegal or unapproved  structures connected to my builiding (I don't know if there is but I'd  be very suprised if there weren't and contracts are open to  interpretation if ambiguous), making my insurance null and void?  It  would then prove to be a very annoying legal exercise, especially if you  don't have money to rebuild your house and sue your neighbour.  And  when people think they are going to lose their house, they will deny,  fight and make it very hard for any (if any) money to be extracted from  them.  This is aside from the fact that my house would be unlivable in the meantime... 
Cheers,
Garth

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## piscean

I would put it all down in a letter to your council. It has a solid roof so they would have needed council approval to build it (at least that's how it works here), and being a structure on the boundary, It doesn't sound like it would meet fire regulations. There is usually a set back from the boundary for a structure unless it is approved to be built on the boundary, and that will usually only be passed through council if it meets fire and water run off requirements. I too would be worried about having a structure attached to the side of my garage on a neighbours side in case it is putting any stress or load on that wall, especially since they built it themselves. really what they should have done is put in posts and keep to the set back from the boundary but if they haven't done these, I doubt they put it through council which is why they are saying it was already there. I wouldn't let it go, since they are now uncovering your pipes? they seem to be just doing what they want without consulting anyone.  
ps. an illegal structure is an illegal structure so if council don't have the plans for it, then it didn't go though them and it doesn't matter who built it or when, it still has to meet code requirements. I think you are right that it could affect insurance in a fire since you now know it is there.

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## intertd6

This is what I would do, If its not a party wall & I owned the wall, I would be upset if some clown came along & fixed a lean to against my wall on side boundary which is not their legal  property, I would get all my facts right first. Then lodge a damage claim to my insurance company as the structure has been fixed to my property & damaged it.
The insurer would then persue them for damages to the property or any other losses that may have happened. 
regards inter

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## woodhunt

Thanks Piscean,
I came across this link yet still am a bit skeptical after my wife related a workcase involving 3 govt dept contacts/managers/supervisors emphatically saying something was okay then to dismiss a payment since this okay wasn't given in writing:  Had anyone been declined insurance claim due to the illegal structure attached ? - Somersoft Property Investment Forums  
Setback and council/BCA construction regs aside, I just realised that the existing gas pipes under that enclosed corridor would possibly provide an unsafe environment as well, moreso since they've now taken away the row of bricks that bordered their property line. 
I might try contacting the insurance company first before considering council- I'd like to  feel a bit more substantiated in my reasoning (if it affects my house and anything to do with fire I will have no qualms when I have a toddler sleeping on that side of our house). 
Cheers,
Garth

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## woodhunt

Here's a photo to make it a bit easier to see who's wall is what, and how long the damn thing is....
I'm also posting in the gardening/landscaping section regarding their newly planted trees (and the other neighbours).  http://www.renovateforum.com/f82/nei...32/#post841385 
Cheers,
Garth

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## m6sports

Wood hunt I think your being a bit extreme I don't think a small roof like that is going to cause any problems to your house. As for your other post the plants don't have great strong root structures that are going to cause you problems 
I think someone needs to take a chill pill and get along better with his neighbour 
It's might just be the more laid back approach living on the coast we are doing a boundary fence 11m long in our front yard and we are pushing it 150mm onto our property as the neighbours driveway runs down that side and for him to have more room to open his door when getting out of the car  
I don't need that 150mm of land and it's going to keep him happy we are both going to be living next door to each other for a while why make it unpleasant

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## woodhunt

@m6sports 
so you are saying  out of the goodness of your heart you'd be fine with someone building a 6 mtr enclosed pergola along your house up at the coast? without any say or permission from you? Neighbours having arguments and breakfast along your wall? Or do you have some kind of stand-off distance from your neighbours house?  It's very different in the inner city.  150mm around here is $15,000 in land value I'm afraid we can't afford to be that generous.

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## m6sports

If I was in the same situation as you are 
I would be embarrassed to even bring this up with my neighbour it's not like his using any of your land, maybe he doesn't like that your house is on the boundary and when ever it rains that area stayed wet for weeks. 
My house is 2 meters from the boundary and the neighbour is about the same giving him use of my 150mm of land will make his life easier and won't affect the value of my property  
Your right in saying that you paid good money for your property and so has he. I would understand if it devalued your house are caused damage to it but all his mostlikley done is put a Dozen dynabolts into your wall  
Maybe he should contract a surveyor to make sure your house isn't encroaching onto his land and make you rectify any discrepancy to the mm

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## woodhunt

It's an illegal construction built onto the side of someones property contrary to the BCA AND council without the owners knowledge or permission.  End of story 
Surveyors have been through ages ago. 
End of the day, my house has been here more than 130 years-20 years older than hers. 
You didn't answer my question- would you be happy with your neighbour up the coast attaching a 6m enclosed pergola to the side of your house? 
Yes or No? 
You two have 4m between you to adjust your wall as YOU have decided- what if he had popped one up 30cm to your side without telling you when you went on holiday then hit you up for half the cost?  Sorta changes the dynamic of the relationship, doesn't it?  To most people around here 4m is the width of their house. 
And in the inner city it DOES devalue your house having someone build a room adjoining your living room wall using your wall as one of the walls. 
No ventilation on the structure- more of a case of it holding ground moisture and compromising my damp course in that area as there is no base, just pavers on dirt.  They built the additions after, it would have been up to them to factor proper ground drainage in.  If you want to talk about bad drainage and moisture, the other house was built next to mine 20 yrs later with cms of gap between. 
And at the moment if I were the same terrace construction as them, they would have two 5 story blocks of 18 flats in each one looking directly into their backyard.  Not even the neighbours, but the people 100 odd years ago had the choice of building next to it or finding someplace else if they didn't like it.

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## cherub65

[QUOTE No ventilation on the structure- more of a case of it holding ground moisture and compromising my damp course in that area as there is no base, just pavers on dirt.  They built the additions after, it would have been up to them to factor proper ground drainage in.  If you want to talk about bad drainage and moisture, the other house was built next to mine 20 yrs later with cms of gap between.
.[/QUOTE]  
Would think structure actually reduces damp issue as no water will be at ground level

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## woodhunt

> Would think structure actually reduces damp issue as no water will be at ground level

  but there's nothing to stop water coming through but fly screen.  I would prefer water coming down, properly drained and evaporating than a box with one opening. 
The roof is sloped, heavy downpour leaves clay soaked, trapping it in there.  I would have also thought it affected how my wall disperses moisture.  To be fair she has put a drain in to stop ingress as they did have exactly that problem some time ago, but does that provide a satisfactory enclosure in terms of moisture?  I thought I remember seeing some people not recommending laserlite on the pergola in some situations due to steamy summers?

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## polly

Having lived in inner city Melbourne, I have seen a lot of this type of enclosure being illegally constructed. I would be concerned about bricks being knocked out of my wall and also dampness issues. I think you would have to involve the council, perhaps you could take a photo and go in and discuss it with them. Living in the inner city with other houses physically attached to yours, it is more of a concern when illegal and probably sub standard building occurs next door than if you live on a bigger block in a fully detached house.

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## woodhunt

Thanks Polly, 
Everyone, to re-iterate my second post in the thread:  

> In fact ideally if it's not supposed to be  there and there were absolutely no adverse consequences I would be happy  if  they wanted to keep it there to not use it as a room but a  sheltered  walkway with no arguing/talking involved- they are going over  their setback in the first place.

  This is not an 'I'm going to get the neighbour into trouble' thread, it's a 'gathering information to make an informed decision' thread. 
I am merely leaving no stone unturned in finding out where liabilities  stand with my neighbours.  This is an increasingly litigious society and  I am protecting my family to make sure I don't end up on one of those  current affair 'what the?" articles where the person who was minding  their own business lost everything due to another careless person and  quirky insurance contracts and liability regulations.  And don't say  'what are the chances', that's why insurance firms exist.  They also exist because they put stipulations in their contracts (illegal activities and tree roots being prominent ones). 
I don't have another spare house to pop my family into (let alone  spotting the neighbour for any plumbing problems), I'm just making sure  I'm covered legally and don't have any repairs down the track. 
Cheers,
Garth

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## m6sports

This is a forum for opinions if your not happy with our opinions then just go to the council  
My situation is different but if I was in your situation I would care unless they damaged the property 
Them putting a pergola against your house wouldnt make a difference with how loud they are 
I'm not saying they have done the right thing by not asking you what I'm saying is it better to get along with your neighbour then pick fights, but with your attitude you would have said no any way so what's the difference  
As for devaluing your house if it took yourself getting up on the roof of your house to see what's going on next door how will the next perspective buyer even know that it's there

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## m6sports

> This is not an 'I'm going to get the neighbour into trouble' thread, it's a 'gathering information to make an informed decision' thread.

  well if your gathering information have you considered how annoying an angry neighbour can be because his been made to take down his inclosed outdoor entertaining area  
If you think his loud now imagin how loud he could be if he wanted to be  
Back to my logic best to be on good terms with your neighbour if it hasn't caused any damage to your property or devalued it more so in your situation as you live so close to each other  
That's my advice and if you don't think I'm right and you pee off your neighbour don't start a thread on how to sound insulate your whole house as the neighbour next door is extra loud

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## woodhunt

> This is a forum for opinions if your not happy with our opinions then just go to the council

  This forum is also for asking questions and being a reference for people so they don't have to ask the same questions.  If you read my post carefully I didn't ask for your opinion so please bear that in mind   

> My situation is different

  Yep, and in the other post I was soliciting for anecdotes of similar situations, again not how nice someone else is in an entirely unrelated matter.   

> Them putting a pergola against your house wouldnt make a difference with how loud they are

  An enclosed 7ft high area with the sound reverberating instead of bouncing into the air above coupled with the propensity for someone to use the space more if it is enclosed especially now they stated they were putting furniture in there- I'd say not.   

> I'm not saying they have done the right thing by not asking you what I'm saying is it better to get along with your neighbour then pick fights

  I would have said that what they did constitutes not getting along with your neighbour and casting the first stone   

> but with your attitude you would have said no any way so what's the difference

  Now that's just judgmental and incorrect if you had taken the time to read my first post.  They didn't even ask and I am stating that I am looking at other things and letting it lie if they pan out than a 'should I go to council' thread.    

> As for devaluing your house if it took yourself getting up on the roof of your house to see what's going on next door how will the next perspective buyer even know that it's there

  It's visible now from the path next to townhouses behind me now, so it's no problem for any perspective buyer. 
Now please,
if you can't answer my first four questions, my whatif, or the question I asked you, or give me a related anecdote then could you please leave this thread free for other people to perhaps answer one so other people in a similar situation don't have to wade through opinion. 
Kind regards,
Garth

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## watson

This thread is temporarily closed for mantainence.......excuse our scaffolding  :Rotfl:

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## watson

OK.
Read it all....again.
Garth...you've pre-empted any advice you can get forum-wise with this   *  It's an illegal construction built onto the side of someones property  contrary to the BCA AND council without the owners knowledge or  permission.  End of story* 
So, If you really feel that that is true..............we should take a different approach to this problem. 
I can't comment on what neighbours do in your situation....my nearest is about a kilometer away......but it's obviously giving you some drama...both plants and pergola and "what ifs".
This is not going to end nicely with the neighbour ...no matter what way you go...council/surveyors/lawyers/. As you've stated ....we live in a litigious society......and the "what ifs" will just keep getting bigger and bigger. 
I'll open the thread again, and calm and logical is the way to go.......get all your ducks in a row...and after all m6sports is just trying to help. 
Pax Vobiscum

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## m6sports

Thanks Watson nicely said  
I never said it was built legally, neither is my garage or next doors garage or his carport but they all have been around for 30 years and if someone told me to knock it down I would make living next door to me HELL and I think they would be the same if I told them what to do 
It's bad enough that councils telling us what we can or can do on our land let alone a neighbour unless it's something extremely ugly or dangerous

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## woodhunt

> or dangerous

  That's what my second post had progressed to and that's where I am- I still don't have any intentions to make her pull it down if it proves to be fine insurance wise (both parties) and she doesn't make it a room (and there is a difference between a habitable room and walkway).  I have no intentions of it not ending nicely- we've got on for 10 odd years 
This ten odd years won't mean a thing if it creates a problem with a fire claim in another ten years and no-ones insurance covers it.  Most pergolas don't join an adjoining property, so please bear in mind this is harder to relate to other pergolas etc. 
@ m6sports thanks for the banter (toddler driving me up the wall so you've probably copped some of it!)- I can see where you're coming from with your constructions and I have a couple planned too but not building against my neighbours wall, but to be fair I've stated a couple of times now it's not really about ruining someones asset, it's about me satisfying the fact that I'm safe from further complications.  Not having a go at you- just like to counterpoint discussions. 
Until I have any further pre-emptive posts :Shock:   I'll get on with the insurance company as stated before... 
Kind regards,
Garth

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## chrisp

Woodhunt, 
Just as an idea, maybe ring one of those planning consultants?  As I understand, some councils have sort of outsourced planning applications by giving preference to applications that are lodged by a professional planner. 
The planner might be able to offer you an independent view as to whether the neighbor's building work would require planning approval, and may also be able to advise if there are likely to be any adverse impacts on your property.

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## woodhunt

Thanks Chrisp,
My wife used to work for one and he seemed to get anything through (like seriously WTF stuff) so !  If insurance is fine then it won't get to that. 
If it isn't covered I'm not going to oppose any construction as long as everything is done properly.  That's a choice she can make. 
Hell, if she can find an insurance company that would cover it as is (again stressing only if it isn't) I'd change, but I've sent the enquiry  (anonymous in case she's insured with them too...) and all I can do is  wait patiently now- their house hasn't caught fire in 14yrs... 
Wood framework, gas pipes, enclosed, possibly non standard I just won't take that risk if it isn't. 
Cheers,
Garth

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## Tomo

Glad you dont live next to me. 
I would more than likey end up knocking you out.

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## watson

> Glad you dont live next to me. 
> I would more than likey end up knocking you out.

   :Rotfl: 
In a "Biblical Sense" only I hope.

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## PeteV

this thread is about to get funny!!!

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## watson

Hope so  :Hahaha:

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## Tomo

:Bigcry:  :Bigcry:    :2thumbsup:  :2thumbsup:  :Aussie3:  :Aussie3:

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## Pulse

Hi Garth,
the laserlite roof looks really professionally done, well flashed, sloping backwards, gutter, downpipe and PVC drainage pipe at ground level. As I see it is illegal as their is no council approval but it really adds to their enjoyment, keeps the rain away from your house and probably won't matter in a fire since your wall is double brick.
As for an insurance company not covering you because of your neighbour... that is very unlikely because they could just seek damages from your neighbour. 
The only concern for me is a screen door banging, transmitting vibration to my wall. 
Cheers
Pulse

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## Bedford

My only concern with it would be if you decide to pull the wall down. :Smilie:

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## jago

Why would council need to consent on this pergola is my question... surely its comes under exempt construction.   
I would consult with a surveyor who specialises in these disputes, only if council has already said that there hands are tied otherwise its up to council to explain in writing why its legal or not.

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## Pulse

I think anything within 900mm of the boundary cannot be exempt due to BCA firewall restrictions 
cheers
Pulse

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## Ashore

Having lived in sydney in a terraced house and renevated 3 of them I think your being a touch heavy handed in your approach , Before you go too far have a thought as to how you will paint /coat your "wall" in the future if your neighbour decides they don't want you on their property and the present coating comes off ( waterblasters are a wonderful item ) , because thats what I would do .
You are complaining about the extra noise , mate you live on each others doorstep of course you can hear them that comes with the address , if you don't like it move to the bush
As for climbing on your roof to take pictures of your neighbours yard and want every species of plant analyzed ....................well you posted here to get help , and I think you need it

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## jago

What he said ^  
As far as the BCA it's only a guide not a legal document until its applied by each individual council or state. 1979 building is more relevant to inner city building where set backs and party walls especially on terraces are not the normal 900 or 1500.

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## woodhunt

Oh dear I'm just in tears, 
Tomo you're extremely welcome to come and buy the house off her if you like. I'd love to have you as a neighbour.  You'll do absolutely nothing my lad. :Doh:  
In fact you sound like you'd try to do some damage to anyone who touched your property, but wants consideration and to be left alone when doing as he/she pleases.  
Ashore, I haven't gone anywhere yet if you'd read the thread so I am greatly amused by some forum reactions.  i bought the house EXACTLY because of its layout that came with the address- You'd be the first complaining if you bought a car for certain features and the dealership just didn't put them in or a thief ripped them out of it a couple of years later. 
And to do with painting, fascias etc that's what easement rights are for. I thought you would have encountered this after three renovations with your attitude towards this.  I'll just pop limewash on- it's good for the plants. 
I could also grow ivy up her front wall on my property or not let her paint that either, but I still hold principles- I wouldn't do that to someone because I have consideration. 
It's been very entertaining and helpful- I've heard both sides of the fence so to speak.  The people who think they can just do anything they like without restriction or consideration to their neighbours (and maybe had problems with council) obviously the louder as I would expect be the case, with only one having mentioned living in the same type of area, but seems to sell and leave (c'mon, your renovations can't be that bad can they?), and the other people.  I always find it's funny that some people have a certain opinion up until the day when it directly affects or involves them.  
And your botany is far worse than mine or you just like to exaggerate for effect- there's only ONE plant there being asked about, not every single species, although you have every right to group your house plants on your property into whatever species/genus/classification you like.. 
Unfortunately the photos have caused more problems for you than a description, I just like to make it easier for people in case they thought I was talking about a freestanding pergola (alright, I was up their fixing my roof too). 
We all have points of view regarding property, some of it has to do with houses, areas and experiences.  I'd consider anyone (and I mean anyone) who doesn't care about their largest purchase in their life to be a fool if they didn't examine every possibility when it has to do with risk, moreso to do with someone elses actions. 
I'll get on with my renovations, wait for the insurance company and let you little schoolboys (not everyone, just the schoolboys) titter and amuse yourselves while harvesting sour grapes abouts what's happened to you in your life... 
Might want to make some popcorn Watson, I threw a handful of gravel back and some of these boys might have enough gas between them to get to Sydney... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   
 Kind Regards,
Garth 
PS Pulse- funnily enough I can't hear the screen door noise at all.  I was thinking about complaining to council about it. :Wink:  
Has it got funnier yet?

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## woodhunt

> What he said ^  
> As far as the BCA it's only a guide not a legal document until its applied by each individual council or state. 1979 building is more relevant to inner city building where set backs and party walls especially on terraces are not the normal 900 or 1500.

  Wouldn't an enclosed pergola be council applying BCA then a legal document, not exempt development?  Not trying to argue, just curious about how it works in the inner city with setbacks (ie some houses seem to take up almost the whole block, whie others have 900mm...)

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## Tomo

Garth, 
If I had concerns with things my neighbours did which may even remotely affect me, my family or property I would grab a six pack, knock on their door or coo-ee over the fence, sit down and have a chat. 
Not whinge, bitch, moan and procrastinate about it. 
Harden up [S]and grow a pair.[/S]  *Edited post*

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## Pulse

Hi Garth,
there are a lot of people on this forum who are pretty relaxed about life, I think their point is that if their neighbour was climbing on the roof to take photos of their garden they would be bemused. If their neighbour came over and asked them to pull out the plant they planted on the weekend, they would probably tell them to f-off. I know I would. I don't know your neighbour, I just know you catch more bees with honey. 
Generally this forum is not full of "schoolboys" with "sourgrapes", just normal people telling it like they see it. 
good luck with your house 
Cheers Pulse

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## woodhunt

Yeah, and I'd also decide what I'm going to say and what alternatives there are before stumbling over with a six pack like an idiot. 
No whinging or moaning-I stated what happened, what I wanted and obviously got everything sans that.  I didn't procrastinate, this post was immediate I am making my decisions based on facts without procrastination nor haste. 
And thanks for the constructive and helpful advice   *Edited Post*

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## Daniel Morgan

> Oh dear I'm just in tears,

   Me too. :Cry:  
Re waiting for the insurance company, they won't do anything about the noise. 
This is Australia Mate, you've had a vent, been given some good advice, now stop being an rrrrrsole. :Mad:

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## m6sports

I want to say whats on my mind but it will mostlikley be edited or I will get in trouble  :2thumbsup:  
So I'm going to bite my tongue and wait for someone elso to say it  :Wink 1:

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## jago

> Wouldn't an enclosed pergola be council applying BCA then a legal document, not exempt development?  Not trying to argue, just curious about how it works in the inner city with setbacks (ie some houses seem to take up almost the whole block, whie others have 900mm...)

  
Councils and surveyors use the EPA 1979 act with the BCA as a set of standards but not a gospel. Each council will also have it's own planning instruments which will dictate what is exempt, complying and DA whilst also using LEPPs & SEPPs to guide each application or case.  
I would  seriously suggest that anybody that has a concerns over this type of problem consult with council planning in the 1st instance and get them to rule and give you a written response, best to know exactley where you stand from the get go, so that you can communicate with everybody involved from a position knowledge. Otherwise it could become he said she said.

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## woodhunt

I think we are all mind readers here- mine was edited too. 
I'm not going to get anything constructive or helpful, just worthless semantics out of this so see you.... 
Insurance company won't do anything about the noise Daniel, I'm going to have a friendly chat with her about that... 
Oh, just saw your reply Jago, thanks for that information!

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## jago

Watsonia .... Defensor fortis

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## watson

:2thumbsup:

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## Tomo

When you have your chat, dont forget the six pack!!!!!

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## woodhunt

I don't drink Tomo (I used all my beer tokens up in the first half of my life), but thanks for the advice again. 
I doubt it's going to come to this from the only information I can find so far, but that's not my insurance company.

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## damsel

Hey Woodhunt as the saying goes, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you are seeking help, then try to be appreciative of all comments. I am going through a similar situation but probably of a larger scale with my neighbour’s building works.  I like you also turned to this forum for support. The guys and gals were great and honest in their responses and this helped me to approach water and sewer authority and local council with more confidence. The information I was given from the forum posts assisted me in learning more about NSW Legislation exempt development regarding retaining walls, excavation and fill, pergolas, shade structures. Other research was on guidelines to building near or over sewer mains. I have even gone onto website Land and Environment Court where there are archives of court cases. If you do a search on encroachments you will be able to see similar cases and what the outcome was. I guess I am now qualified to apply for employment at my local council Building and Development Department. J. I can understand the amusement of this thread from member’s posts as I am being amused by the comments also - no offence. What I do know is that once I have sorted my dilemma, I will need to assess my happiness and if I find myself feeling miserable afterwards then LJ Hooker here I come. I note that you have little ankle biters. I know it is unjust but sometimes we need to cut our losses, enjoying watching your kids in a new home with a fresh start is all that may be needed. Cheers Damsel

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## PeteV

Just a qick note that may or may not be relevant. i had a neighbour that was complaining about the height of my walls obscuring his views. my walls are around 5.5m high in a building envelope that allows me to go to 7.5m without consulting any neighbours. after several weeks of complaining and gawking at me working over the fence i finally had enough. opportunity presented itself while i was nailing roof battens down, my neighbour was out playing with the boundary fence. long story short, three nails from the trusty paslode landing within metres, and i never heard a thing from him again!!! 
like i said, may or may not be relevant, but i wonder who will be holding the nail gun in your story?!

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## woodhunt

Thank you for the helpful post Damsel, 
I saw your thread a while ago, but didn't have any useful information for you, so browsed it. 
You stated in your first post that you reported to council due to the nature of your problem, I haven't due to my wanting to keep it confidential and deal with this myself (I mentioned this in my first and second post and my tune remains the same) and asked questions to the effect of if it was allowed to be there, and does it constitute any risk to me.   
I can understand mentioning council in the first post sounded threatening and could lead to presumptions of my attitude toward my neighbour, but that was to point out I would like to not involve them and would like to find information here for my consideration. 
I don't believe I've bitten all the hands that fed me (admittedly the more palatable readings :Blush7: ), I have found out some useful information and thanked them for it (I hope- if not I thank them now for their input).  I do however believe I bit when I encountered certain comments and may have misinterpreted one (apologies to m6sports if that was the case, it's one of those terms that mightn't translate well in post, but I stand guilty of that as well).  Unfortunately I have been brought up to give as good as get at times, and that coupled with addressing points as they come up might give the wrong impression. 
Unfortunately it's an enclosed pergola so your thread information about exempt dev doesn't cover it (wouldn't be much point without the roof!) but thanks for mentioning it anyway. 
However, thank for the other sources.  I haven't found anything about encroachment over foundations so that mightn't be an issue anyway. 
It might have sounded very compounded, but I've had questions about some stuff for a while, other stuff I've only just encountered and it might have seemed a little overbearing for some.  Maybe a post asking about insurance and firewalls and a post 6 months later with a photo of a leaf asking for ID might have been less exciting for some. :Redface:   
Our other neighbour installed a firewall between our roof spaces (we have single roof going over a dunny run) after one not being there for 120yrs+ and said it was for insurance purposes if the buildings caught fire so I didn't think that such an extraordinary question to ask.  I also wasn't perturbed about it being installed if it had to be done for cover. 
I don't intend to go anywhere near a real estate or cut any losses- I'm staying here a while so I just want to know what's in store down the track and if and how to address issues. 
Kind regards,
Garth   

> and i never heard a thing from him again!!!

  Pete- maybe he's still in the backyard :Smilie: 
I wouldn't shoot at someone over a wall that you were in your rights to build, and if I knew that to be true I wouldn't complain so I'd guess no-one in this circumstance. 
PS also an apology to everyone for saying that I didn't drink

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## Ashore

> Ashore, I haven't gone anywhere yet if you'd read the thread so I am greatly amused by some forum reactions. i bought the house EXACTLY because of its layout that came with the address-?

  And yet you complain about hearing you neighbours talking  *"they are constantly talking very loudly in that room in Cantonese as it is."*
I mearly offered advice as to how to get away from this ? 
still have to wonder at you pointing out that it was Cantonese, so is the volume the problem or the language    

> with only one having mentioned living in the same type of area, but seems to sell and leave (c'mon, your renovations can't be that bad can they)?

  My renovations were what allowed me to retire at 45 . The reason I left sydney was because Newcastle is a far better place to live and raise children    

> And your botany is far worse than mine or you just like to exaggerate for effect- there's only ONE plant there being asked about,

  From you other post "  I noticed that they had planted *trees* up against my wall*"*    

> Unfortunately the photos have caused more problems for you than a description, I just like to make it easier for people in case they thought I was talking about a freestanding pergola (*alright, I was up their fixing my roof too*).

  Not what you said previously  
"While climbing up to take photos for the other thread," 
I note you are making a complaint about your other neighbour as well ........... :Think: 
funny that  ( is that funny enough watto )

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## woodhunt

> still have to wonder at you pointing out that it was Cantonese, so is the volume the problem or the language

   Apologies for that if it looked bad to you- it's just a loudy foggy/echoey voice that I can't understand making it harder to judge how or why the sound is coming through.   

> Newcastle is a far better place to live and raise children

  Not going to argue that as I don't know enough about Newcastle- certainly would be cheaper than some places in Sydney for a family after the renovation boom so you're probably right.   

> From you other post "  I noticed that they had planted *trees* up against my wall*"*

  And I asked for ID of one in particular, there's other ones that I'm not worried about as it wasn't at any part of my wall that worried me     

> "While climbing up to take photos for the other thread," 
> I note you are making a complaint about your other neighbour as well ...........

  )
Yes. If you read my immediate previous post you'd see that It's been a few things over time- strata will be a different kind of neighbour  

> (*alright, I was up their fixing my roof too*).

  we have also had a deluge down here and the corrugated iron doesn't seem to be coping with certain rates of downfall at that pitch.  I can multi-task and I didn't know this was a detective story. 
Cheers,
Garth

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## intertd6

What a lot of huffing & puffing has gone here lately, bottom line if someone has attached something to your house without your permission & you want it removed, it has to go. They have stepped over the line not you. Under your duty of disclosure to your insurance company you have to inform them of it. Because it is attached to your structure, they would have damaged it with the anchors / fasteners, hence the claim for the damage done, water damage, etc, the insurance company has a whole stack of legal professionals who are on their payroll which your insurance premium helps pay for, so to get the desired outcome you need & are entitled to, its the cheapest option. You cant even negotiate with the neighbors once you know damage has occurred to you property as this could void your claim with the insurance co.
regards inter

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