# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  Removal of Load Bearing Wall

## Greaper

Hi All, 
Hoping I can get some help here, not having much luck in the local phone book with Builders, obviously got it too good at the moment!  We are wanting to pull out a load bearing wall (we have already been told it is) in the kitchen and extend/renovate the kitchen area.  I have attached a basic layout and was wondering if anyone out there would have an idea what sized beam is required and how it is fixed/supported at each end.  The area is on the ground floor of a 2 story house (23 yrs old), all framing is hardwood & I would think Cyclone rated being in Queensland.  Please let me know if you require any more details. 
Cheers 
Darren

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## pharmaboy2

greaper, 
need to know whats above the wall, which way the joists run, if the bearer is face joined or under joists , are they single joists that go the whole length, or do they end over a load bearing beam/wall. Finally you will need to know roof construction type. 
Onesteel for steel speccies, and futurebuild for the timber options - the design tables will teach you how to work out Floor Load Width and Roof Load Width.

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## Greaper

Thanks for the prompt response pharmaboy2, 
The joists (approx 450mm centres) run perpendicular to the proposed beam and existing load bearing wall from one external wall to the other across the house and are supported in the middle by a large steel beam that runs the length of the house held up by 2 supports (you can sort of see that in the pic). There is a long load bearing wall running in line with the proposed beam (see pic).  Above this area is another kitchen and the kitchen wall would be out at least another metre  (halfway between the existing, soon to be demolished wall and the large steel beam).  The roof is built with trusses & tiled.  I'll try & update my drawing and repost. 
Darren

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## namtrak

We removed a load bearing wall at home and replaced it with a hanging beam.  We then tied the struts for the roof collar to that beam.  I think the beam was 2 by 8.    This is a pic showing the removal 
My misgiving though, would be if you have to be told it's a load bearing wall then there's the possibility that the job is beyond you?  Make sure you get someone with nous in to see and advise closely (read - do it for you) on the job. 
Photos would be a help

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## bitingmidge

Greaper, 
You need someone with experience to inspect before you do anything.  Send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with a local engineer, and builder who can help. 
I'd suggest hiring a builder who understands the codes for the grunt work, to ensure it's done properly, then finishing it yourself. 
Cheers, 
P

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## Greaper

I have updated drawing. I have had 3 builders around to quote to do the work, they take all the measurements, tell me what they are going to do etc etc and then we never hear back, don't return calls etc (going on 4 weeks now since the first one came).  That's why I'm keen to have a go myself as we have now missed our opportunity with the plasterers & kitchen guys (after Xmas when they were quiet) waiting for these guys to quote & then turn up to do the work... the beam size that was bandied around was 250 x 50 but what type/what rating/cost.. no idea, couple of studs at each end and voilla.
I'll take a couple of photos this arvo & try & post them tonight...but I am keen to get on with this ASAP. 
Cheers 
Darren

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## ThePope

A quick trip to the nearest structural engineer will give you the size required and what's needed for supporting it. Make sure no floor joists are joined on the wall being removed aswell.

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## gsouth

take bitingmidge's offer and PM him - having watched our builder do what you want to do on a single storey building I wouldn't dream of touching it for a two storey building.
What are the consequences of not doing it right - ring your insurance company and ask if you are covered if the work you undertake yourself fails and the floor above comes on down......

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## Greaper

I have PM'ed bitingmidge, I'll wait to hear back from him, he's probably still applying the RID and gsouth there are no joists joining on the wall in question, they all go at least as far as the large steel beam if not all the way through to the other side of the house.

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## bitingmidge

PM received and response fired off! 
Might have to do a bit of climbing up Buderim Mountain one day soon... 
Cheers, 
P

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## pharmaboy2

just sticking the numbers into design IT, 250/50 seems a little small, a 240/63 hyspan beam would do it (assuming floor load only - no load bearing walls above floor area). 
The complicating factor is your existing beam - you will be increasing the load onto that beam which may put it over its design capacity.  Because of that complicating factor, i'd be getting an engineer over. the reason the builders have scarpored is probably relating to this as well - they cant easily specify as it effects existing.  Engineer might walk in and say no probs, its effect is still within parameters or he might want the post moved. 
Biting midges's mate to the rescue i'd say  ($200 for an engineer in this case would be well spent)

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## ThePope

The job itself is quite simple as it's been presented, if installing one beam is  the entire job then there's zero value in it for a builder, hence the trouble finding one who's interested in the job.

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## Greaper

Bitingmidge's Engineer is coming over today, I'll keep you all informed....

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## harcx

Greaper
Take the advise and engage an Engineer
You will get a complete analysis
You will get not only the beam size but the support size and, if he/she is half decent, connection details as well
You may even get an idea you have not considered 
And above all you will get the cover of professional indemnity insurance 
Not bad for a few hundred bucks 
If you do it yourself you willget none of this and if you dont have an owner builders licence you may well vitiate your own household and public risk insurance 
Tread carefully 
Cheers
HarcX

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## Greaper

Engineer has been he said it was a very simple job, no hidden problems etc, the beam required is a 195 x 85 Hynebeam 17C, held up at each end by two 70 x 55 MGP12 (what does this mean?) Studs, I'll see if I can find a stockist tommorrow.  A builder is supposed to be coming to quote (hmmm been here before) tommorrow arvo and another on Saturday morning...I'll keep you informed of the progress. I have some photos I might post them tommorrow...Thanks everyone for all your comments.

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## TARLOX

MGP 12 is the stress grade of the timber. (I think MGP stands for machine graded pine). MGP 10, MGP12 and MGP 15 are common.

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## pharmaboy2

Greaper, hope your quoting went OK!  If not, order the hynebeam and a couple of lenths of the laserpine required (any wood merchant will stock the mgp12, and can order the hynebeam.  then just ring a couple of builders, and tell em waht you want and to quote over the phone an hourly rate for 2 people.  carpenters might be cheaper BTW.  As you are looking at a 1/2 day job, quoting may not be worthwhile.  Best hourly for cash wins!

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## ozwinner

> MGP 12 is the stress grade of the timber. (I think MGP stands for machine graded pine). MGP 10, MGP12 and MGP 15 are common.

  See here for grading.  
Al  :Smilie:

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