# Forum Home Renovation The Garden Shed  Bell shaped holes?

## demuire

Hi all, 
I'm digging the holes for my carport at the moment, and according to the plans from Titan the holes are supposed to be bell shaped:   
What's the best way to make them bell shaped?  The holes are 300x600, and according to the drawing the bell should be 150x200 (which would make the bottom of the hole 600mm wide, although that doesn't really fit the scale of the drawing, maybe the drawing is referring to a deeper hole).  I've just used the post hole digger to chip away the insides at the bottom, but it's slow going and difficult to make the bell that wide... 
Also, one of my holes has hit the storm water pipe:   
I'm guessing I'll have to re-route the storm water, what's the best way to do this?  Chip away the sides until I get clear access to the pipe and then cut and put in 4 x 45 degree bends in it to get it further away or something?  Or should I just dig the hole wider to get better access?  If I do this, how do I "define" the hole again?  Re-fill and reshape the hole?  The pipe is about 300mm underground, so about half way down the hole.  I've also got to tap into this pipe to pipe the gutters from the carport into it...  Is that just a case of putting a T-piece on the pipe? 
Lastly, do I need to cover or mark the holes to prevent anyone from falling in?  It's in my front yard (away from the street, but still in my front yard...) 
Thanks!

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## Bleedin Thumb

OK now I may get flamed for this advise but no one has respondes so.... 
Those type of details are usually taken with a grain of salt, IE you make an effort to comply but if it is impossible to comply (meaning the architect/engineer lives on another planet) you do the best you can do. 
I usually use a crow bar to bell out the hole then get in there with your arm to take out the spoil. 
Unless it was specified because you have very sandy soil - doesnt look it - as long as you dont have smooth sided holes I wouldn't panick. 
AFA the stormwater pipe goes.... if it was me...I would leave it.... but that is the sort of person I am.  
Its right on the edge - it wont effect the footing and if you have a problem in the future its easy to redirect them...but if it worries you now..go for it.

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## demuire

Thanks for the reply.  I have to get the holes inspected by the council before I can proceed to put the car port up, not sure if they'd approve it with the storm water pipe there?

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## Bleedin Thumb

Ah...in that case it may be better to redirect it now because they are sure to pull you up. 
Stuff something - rags, thick paper etc in the hole while you're working ..it saves cleaning out the hole again,  
Obviously you would use a qualified plumber to do this work so there would be no need to make sure that the pipe is backfilled and cant be seen or mentioned to the inspector :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## journeyman Mick

It was pretty common practice to "bell" post footings in the past, but rarely specified now. Basically, as BT said, you do the best you can. That drain pipe is going to be a nightmare if you dig to it from the bottom of the existing hole. If you open up the existing hole you'll make a huge hole that you'll need to fill with concrete. More concrete = more $$. If possible I'd dig a new "U" shaped trench around the footing that intercepts the pipe either side. Cut the pipe and reroute then just smash the pipe in the bottom of the hole. 
Mick

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## demuire

Hmm...  Can I just make the hole bigger, re-route the pipe and then fill the "extra" section back up so that I still have just a "normal" hole?  Also, with plumbing the gutter to the storm water, can I use a T-section, or would I need a Y-section to "keep the flow" (???).  Or perhaps it would be easier to plumb it to a gravel pit and leave the storm water pipe by itself...?

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## journeyman Mick

> Hmm...  Can I just make the hole bigger, re-route the pipe and then fill the "extra" section back up so that I still have just a "normal" hole?..............

  You can if you properly compact the soil, preferably with some type of mechanical compaction device (wacker packer, sheepsfoot trench roller, plate vibrator). But this would be more trouble than digging the "U" shaped trench, which you'll have to any way for the pipe to run in. 
You should cover the holes up with ply or erect a barrier to prevent someone from falling in. In this litigious day and age you can be sued for someone else's stupidity/your negligence. 
Mick

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## ian

can you move the car port 6 inches?
If so refill all the holes and redig them in the new locations
don't tell the council inspector 
ian

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## joe greiner

The belled bottom is merely to provide sufficient bearing area on the soil. The taper is the minimum (with respect to horizontal) allowable for shear transfer within the shaft, while minimising the amount of concrete for cost. Although it'd require more concrete, the taper can run all the way to the top if it's easier to excavate that way. Council and engineer should have no quarrel with that. 
Joe

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## falcon

I take it that the holes are to support the posts for the carport? Or are they a pier hole as part of foundation for the slab. If the later , you could fill in the hole and move it in a bit. (the easy way) 
If it is for the post, how deep down is the pipe. What you'll have to remember is that you'll need a big hole to get good access to get in there and redirct it. Not sure how you'd go trying to pack in soil again to have a decent hole for concrete.  
Its only storm water , so cant see why you couldnt poor concrete over it. (no expert on the matter tho, but worth a call to inspectors to discuss)

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## joe greiner

In my humble (but professional) opinion, that's not a perfect detail for the junction of the slab with the post footing. Better for the slab to be isolated, e.g. footing top flush with the top of the slab and cushioning between them. The detail legend (if I read it correctly) indicates this is "Option 2." How does "Option 1" accommodate the post? Or are these plans really, really, really generic? 
Joe

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## journeyman Mick

> The belled bottom is merely to provide sufficient bearing area on the soil..........

  Joe, 
I had always assumed that the bell was there to increase the hold down capability of the footing, but then I live in cyclone country. If it's not to increase the hold down capacity I'd be inclined to just dig the hole the same size all the way down and use a bit more concrete.  
Mick

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## demuire

Hmm, okay will see if I can put something on the holes so people don't fall in.  Or maybe put some cones around the hole and hope no one pinches them.  Hopefully no one decides to fall in while I'm at work today  :Smilie:  
ian: Would prefer not to move the carport as it would mean it wouldn't line up with the house... 
From what I'm reading I'm guessing the bell height doesn't matter, but the bottom should be the width specified (in this case 600mm)? 
falcon: It's for posts.  The pipe is about 300mm underground...   
joe: I think the plans are very very generic...

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## Barry_White

With all my experience of selling and building sheds and carports belled holes in a non cyclonic area is overkill. As Demuire says the plans are probably generic and because they probably build all the time in cyclone areas they are just covering themselves. The belled hole as Mick says is to hold the carport down in the wind not support the weight as this is minimal compared to the wind uplift.  
If you are pouring a concrete slab over the footings later there is no way it would blow away and pull the posts out of the ground. There would be more chance of the wind ripping the tin roof off but would leave the posts in the ground. 
I don't think the council should mind if the concrete was poured around the stormwater. If it was sewerage that might be different.

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## Outbackrr

I agree with Mick that the 'belling' is to provide uplift resistance by acting as a soil anchor. Titan must have an old engineer or footing design, as there are no mechanical means of digging bell-shaped holes. 
The concrete volume of a straight-walled footing would have to be increased to compensate, with weight, for the uplift resistance provided by the original design.

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## ian

Must admit that personally, for a carport, I'd just use long chemical loxens into the thickened edge of the slab.  
It works for industrial scale buildings so will be overkill for a carport  
ian

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## joe greiner

Bell bottoms have fallen out of favour because the bell cutter must be retracted into the bucket to withdraw the bucket for soil disposal. This increases the complexity of the bucket design and its maintenance requirements, as well as slowing production. For end bearing, it's usually easier to just increase the depth to achieve adequate bearing capacity at the smaller diameter. 
I suppose the bell bottom as shown could provide some uplift resistance in lightly-loaded situations. Concrete is notoriuosly deficient in tension capacity, though. For very significant loads, I'd prefer to see some reo anchoring the bell into the rest of the shaft, as well as in the shaft itself. 
North Atlantic hurricanes are substantially the same as South Pacific cyclones, except for the direction of rotation. In Florida, the preferred method of providing uplift resistance for small structures such as sheds and mobile homes, is to use soil anchors - a helical steel plate at the end of a long steel shaft, screwed into the ground. I think there was a discussion here (WWF) a year or so ago, and they weren't a mystery to the congregation. 
Please read my comments in light of my limited familiarity with small structures. IIRC, the smallest drilled shaft I've ever used was 8 feet (2.4m) in diameter. Several in the foundations for a drawbridge, with each leaf weighing about 1,000,000 pounds - equal to the maximum takeoff weight of a Boeing 747. 
Joe

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## RobTro

Uplift resistance and download support are very different and I don't know where you are building and the design intent so will leave that. 
As far as the drain pipe goes, find out if it is storm water or sewerage.
Be careful about making long or short roundabout routes around the hole.  You will probably loose grade (slope) and liquid (whatever it is)  will not flow properly which may cause more problems. 
If storm water, it may be better to encase it in concrete and leave it as it is. BUt check with council or an engineer would be my suggestion.  THe little bit of concrete needed for this is not really going to be that much. If sewerage then move it. (not under the carport) I'd replace a longer section so that there is slope and the "stuff" will actually drain away.  Best to get a professional to do this job.   
All up it may be better to ask the council and take their advice as they are the ones who will OK it or not anyway.

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## demuire

It's definitely storm water, it's directly in line (and the same shape) with the downpipe from the house and the exit at the street.  I started to dig around today to re-route it, geez it'll be a big job.  Well, big for me anyway.  I'll call council tomorrow and see what they have to say, but I suspect they'll want me to re-route it... 
Carport kit arrived today.  I think it's rather beyond my level of strength or expertise...  And the guy who offered to help me appears to have piked (well, he piked on helping me dig the holes, and is now sort of uncontactable...).  Might call Titan tomorrow and see how much it would cost to get them to put it up for me...  Or maybe someone here?

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## journeyman Mick

> Bell bottoms have fallen out of favour...........

  I've still got several pairs in my wardrobe, do you reckon they might come back into fashion some time soon? :Biggrin:  
Mick

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## joe greiner

> I've still got several pairs in my wardrobe, do you reckon they might come back into fashion some time soon? 
> Mick

  If they still fit, more power to ya. :Biggrin:  
Joe

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## Bleedin Thumb

> I've still got several pairs in my wardrobe, do you reckon they might come back into fashion some time soon? 
> Mick

  
The Mardi Gras was the other night Mick, so you will have to wait till next year. :Tongue:

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## demuire

Called up Council, they said not to worry about the storm water pipe (yay), just put some flexible material around it so it doesn't bind to the concrete (yay).  So the inspector is coming out tomorrow to inspect the holes, hopefully they pass. 
I asked about the plumbing for the gutter, specifically about a gravel pit so I wouldn't need to cut the storm water pipe, and they mentioned that if I have enough fall then I should plumb it to the storm water.  Hmm, so I'll still need to cut the pipe anyway... (unless they meant something else?) 
The pipe doesn't appear to be a standard 90mm round pipe, it's more of a flat shape (like a 90mm pipe that's been squashed flat).  Not square, it's round'ish.  I haven't seen this sort of pipe before, where do I get connectors for it?

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## journeyman Mick

> .............The pipe doesn't appear to be a standard 90mm round pipe, it's more of a flat shape (like a 90mm pipe that's been squashed flat).  Not square, it's round'ish.  I haven't seen this sort of pipe before, where do I get connectors for it?

  It is in fact, 90mm pipe that's been squashed by the weight of the backfill. :Rolleyes:  Just use your standard connectors. You may need to use a bit of heat to get the pipe round again. 
Mick

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## demuire

Oh right.  YAY  :Smilie:   Oh well, I guess assuming the holes are approved today, I can dig the hole out a little to get proper access to the pipe and cut it and put a T-piece in it... 
so like...  is there anyone in Ipswich who would like to help me put up a carport this weekend?   :Smilie:

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## demuire

... and it passed  :Smilie:   YAY.  Dug around the pipe today to have a closer look at it and yes, it is indeed a 90mm pipe that's been squashed flat.  Will buy a Y-piece and 45 degree bend and throw that in...   :Smilie:

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## demuire

Thinking about concrete for these footings - am I right in calculating that I would need approx 0.2 square meters of concrete?  ((0.15 * 0.15 * 3.142) * 0.6) x 4, with a little bit more for the bell...?  Someone has suggested to me to get it from a landscaping place, maybe 2 bags of cement and some premix gravel + sand, mixed in with 1:6 ratio?  Does that sound about right? 
Also, would it be safe to put up the frame of the carport by itself (not concreted in) and have it left for a week or so before pouring the footings in?  It's just that I doubt we'd have time to square and level it all up properly this weekend after we put it up...  I'm thinking that it's sort of like a big table (without the top so the wind shouldn't blow it away), and as long as the bolts are done up it should just stand there by itself and not fall over...?

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## Vernonv

That volume (0.2m3) sounds about right. 
From memory you need about 16 bags of concrete (20kg) per m3, so you will need 4 bags. Also when using all in mix (sand and gravel already mixed) you should use 5:1 or even better 4:1.

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## demuire

Is more concrete to sand better?  (I'm assuming 4:1 means 4 parts mix to 1 part cement)?  How much water goes in this?  I sort of know what consistency it's meant to look like but it's always reassuring to know I haven't added too little or too much water...

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## Vernonv

> Is more concrete to sand better?

  Yes generally, although the water to cement ratio also effects the strength.   

> (I'm assuming 4:1 means 4 parts mix to 1 part cement)?

  Yep, that is correct.   

> How much water goes in this?

  I try and stick to about 0.7:1 i.e. if you put in 10lt bucket of cement you put in about 7 litres of water. The more water the weaker the mix. Being post holes you could probably get away with a dryer mix (less water).

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## Bleedin Thumb

Mate those calcs are fine except you have failed to take off the volume of the post in the hole ...... you may just end up with a few bags of conc left over. 
You will be ok setting it up first and leaving but honestly you have done all the hard work - use rapid set concrete mix (forget mixing your own) and you can set it then and there on day one. 
all you have to do is plumb the posts, thats the easy part.

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## demuire

Thanks heaps everyone  :Smilie:   If I use rapid set concrete mix (this is the all-in-one premix stuff like from Bunnings?) wouldn't I need like a lot of bags?  The shed builder I called yesterday recons I'd need like 6 bags (20kg each) per hole, which is like 24 bags!  At like $25 per bag that could get expensive really quickly...  Or maybe his estimations were all wrong...  It does sound like a hell of a lot of concrete...   

> I try and stick to about 0.7:1 i.e. if you put in 10lt bucket of cement you put in about 7 litres of water. The more water the weaker the mix. Being post holes you could probably get away with a dryer mix (less water).

  Do you mean cement or concrete?  I'm getting a little confused  :Smilie:

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## demuire

Found on another thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=25229) that each bag of all-in-one premix makes like 0.01m3 of concrete, so I'd need like 20 bags.   
I can't remember how much the bags are (for some reason I thought they were $25ea) but on that thread it indicates that perhaps it's closer to $6ea.  That's still $120 worth of premix... 
*edit* found a site that sells stuff (http://www.centenarylandscaping.com/...GravelSand.htm), and for "concrete mix" they have 10mm and 20mm size, which should I be using?

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## ian

> That volume (0.2m3) sounds about right. 
> From memory you need about 16 bags of concrete (20kg) per m3, so you will need 4 bags. Also when using all in mix (sand and gravel already mixed) you should use 5:1 or even better 4:1.

  I too get about 0.2m³ of concrete
But I make it more like 112 (20kg) bags of premix to the m³ (=2400kg of finished concrete)  but read the bag to be sure  so you'll need about 20 bags of the premix  you don't need extra cement.  Buy at least 30 bags (to allow for over break in the hole) and return what you don't use. 
If you can't get a small mini-mix load, buy the bags and hire a mixer to mix it in.  If I'm doing my sums right, you want to add just over a litre of water per bag of premix  this should give a water:cement ratio of about 0.6  
ian

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## scooter

On the 20kg bags at work I'm pretty sure it says one bag will do 0.2sq m of concrete at 50mm thick. 
That equals 100 bags to the cubic metre.

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## Bleedin Thumb

Demuire - have you taken the displacement volume of the post off the calculated concrete volume. 
I look at that photo and KNOW that you wont use 20 bags. I would say 8 bags - 12 bags MAX.  
BTW you dont use a mixer with Rapid Set - read the instructions on the bag.

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## Vernonv

> Do you mean cement or concrete? I'm getting a little confused

  I mean cement. i.e. the ratio of cement to water should be 1:0.7 i.e. 1 cement to 0.7 water. 
So you're mixing (assuming your NOT going down the rapid set or premixed bag route) is 4 all-in (sand and agg), to 1 cement, to 0.7 water.   

> Quote:
> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by *Vernonv*   _That volume (0.2m3) sounds about right. 
> From memory you need about 16 bags of concrete (20kg) per m3, so you will need 4 bags. Also when using all in mix (sand and gravel already mixed) you should use 5:1 or even better 4:1._
> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
> But I make it more like 112 (20kg) bags of premix to the m³

  Sorry, I should have written 16 bags of CEMENT per m3 not concrete. :Blush7:

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## demuire

> Demuire - have you taken the displacement volume of the post off the calculated concrete volume. 
> I look at that photo and KNOW that you wont use 20 bags. I would say 8 bags - 12 bags MAX.  
> BTW you dont use a mixer with Rapid Set - read the instructions on the bag.

  No, have not taken that into mind - but am keeping in mind that I'll need extra for the "bell" (more like ball, haha), and for the top (the cement needs to be shaped into a cone shape at the top so the water will run away from the posts right?).  I'm also unsure as to how far the posts stick into the holes... 
BUT, assuming the posts sit 500mm deep, from memory they are 75x75, I think that means they'll take up 0.003m3 each, which equates to 0.012m3 all up. 
0.2 - 0.012 = 0.18m3, which isn't much less at all... 
BTW, on this website: http://www.landscapesonline.com.au/c...eid=1123478519 
It lists the post mix concrete as "for simple non-structural concreting".  Does that mean it's not as strong?  Is a carport footing considered "structural"?  I think I'd prefer to use normal concrete as it's cheaper and I have no idea how slow I'll be in putting the concrete in, and setting time isn't much of an issue for me I don't think - as long as it's strong...

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## Vernonv

> BTW, on this website: http://www.landscapesonline.com.au/c...eid=1123478519 
> It lists the post mix concrete as "for simple non-structural concreting". Does that mean it's not as strong? Is a carport footing considered "structural"? I think I'd prefer to use normal concrete as it's cheaper and I have no idea how slow I'll be in putting the concrete in, and setting time isn't much of an issue for me I don't think - as long as it's strong...

  Post mix is normally a weaker mix. Are carport footings structural? I don't know for sure :Confused: , but is the relatively small increase in cost to use normal concrete, worth the risk of problems later on? 
I personally would just get the 4 bags of cement and the appropriate amount of all-in (i think it's 1.2 or 1.3 x the volume) and mix it on site.

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## Bleedin Thumb

Mate your going to pour a reinforced slab over the top anyway. you just want the post footings to hold it in place until your pour. If youre short - make it up when you pour your slab. 
AFA putting a cone on the top - just think about how usless that would be under a slab.

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## Barry_White

> T? 
> Also, would it be safe to put up the frame of the carport by itself (not concreted in) and have it left for a week or so before pouring the footings in?  It's just that I doubt we'd have time to square and level it all up properly this weekend after we put it up...  I'm thinking that it's sort of like a big table (without the top so the wind shouldn't blow it away), and as long as the bolts are done up it should just stand there by itself and not fall over...?

  It would be OK to put just the frame up just don't put the roofing on until the footing concrete has gone off. This certainly is the best way to get every thing plumb and square.

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## demuire

> Mate your going to pour a reinforced slab over the top anyway. you just want the post footings to hold it in place until your pour. If youre short - make it up when you pour your slab. 
> AFA putting a cone on the top - just think about how usless that would be under a slab.

  Apparently I need to get council to come and approve it before I can pour the slab on top (I think).  So I think I'll need at least a small cone...

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## Barry_White

> Apparently I need to get council to come and approve it before I can pour the slab on top (I think).  So I think I'll need at least a small cone...

  I think you would find that if it was poured in combination with your footings they would require an engineers certificate for the slab, but a separately poured slab shouldn't matter as your footings are designed to hold your carport down/up so the slab shouldn't come into the equation.

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## joe greiner

I still have some distaste for this detail. I can't see it clearly enough in the pic, but there may be something shown between the top of the footing and the bottom of the slab. Without cushioning, the slab is subject to cracking in the vicinity of the post under vertical loads inboard on the slab. About 12-25mm of something very soft, like styrofoam with a crushing strength on the order of 1 psi (7kPa, I think) should help. 
Joe

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## demuire

... and I have a storm water connection  :Smilie:

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## RobTro

Have ypu checked on the cost of just getting some ready mix.  
I live in Japan now so don't know the costs in OZ now but... 
Call the conrete supply company and get a quote.  You'll only need a barrow and maybe a vibrator if your really want.  If the conrete truck has access to the site you may not even need a barrow.  It may be a little more expensive.  But way that little bit against the time and back strain mixing it yourself.  And you will be making a mess mixing it yourself.  More to clean up afterwards.  Also if there is a little left over the conrete supply company will deal with it. 
What do you blokes in the know reckon?

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## demuire

I ended up buying 4 bags of cement and 1/4m3 of premix.  Cost less than $50.  Even managed to borrow the trailer from Bunnings, did you know that if you buy anything (like, anything at all - even a light bulb) from Bunnings you can hire their trailer for free for two hours???   :Smilie:

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## Vernonv

If you've already done the concreting then ignore the following, else (and I assume your using a mixer) ... 
Get yourself a strong 10lt plastic bucket (heavy plastic like what paint comes in) and just a normal bucket that has litre markings on it (and a strong handle).  
Put 2 full buckets of all-in into the mixer, then add a bucket of cement then add another 2 buckets of all-in (helps you remember how many you have put in - only need to count to 2  :Biggrin: ).  
After is all goes a uniform grey colour, slowly add 7 litres of water (using the normal bucket). 
Wait until it is all mixed (maybe a couple of minutes), then pour. 
Too easy ....

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## demuire

Thanks heaps for the tip Vernonv  :Smilie:   Was sort of planning to do that already, although hadn't actually bought a bucket...  And no, no mixer, just the wheel barrow and shovel...  Or maybe I should get a mixer... 
In any case, had to modify some downpipes today, they were in the way.  Then started to put the carport up.  To the Titan salesman who told me that one person should be able to do it by himself, I say "HA - yeah right..."  It probably doesn't help that I weigh in at a piddly 54kg, but even if I was big and burly I think I'd struggle in a large way to put it up by myself...     
The frame is up, we were hoping to get the footings done today too, but I think that'll have to wait for another day.  It's sitting very short at the moment (and very very not level), it'll have to be lifted up about 200mm on one side and about 100mm on the other side (to get it level with the house), and the front will probably need to be lifted up at least as much (there is massive fall on the right front at the moment, my garden is really not level and I think I dug the front right hole too deep due to the storm water piping...  Might fill it back in a little) 
Question: The Titan salesman recommended hiring some props to help lift and get the frame level.  How do you stop the frame from falling off the props?  At the moment it sort of leans to one side.  Apart from the house, there isn't really anything solid to tie it to.  I thought of pegs in the ground, but the frame is really quite heavy, I don't think pegs are going to do much.   
Anyway, thanks heaps for all your help.  Next weekend will hopefully be spent levelling and squaring the frame up, and pouring the footings. 
YAY!

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## Terrian

> Thanks heaps everyone   If I use rapid set concrete mix (this is the all-in-one premix stuff like from Bunnings?) wouldn't I need like a lot of bags?  The shed builder I called yesterday recons I'd need like 6 bags (20kg each) per hole, which is like 24 bags!  At like $25 per bag that could get expensive really quickly...  Or maybe his estimations were all wrong...  It does sound like a hell of a lot of concrete...

  probably 3 or 4 20kg bags per hole at about $10 per bag, do not use rapid set, has a lower MPA than standard  concrete / conmix, yes, the pre mixed bags you get from the likes of bunnings 
$25 per bag sounds more like 40kg bags   

> Do you mean cement or concrete?  I'm getting a little confused

  cement = that grey powder, no sand, no stone
concrete / conmix = the grey powder with sand & stone  :Smilie:

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## spruik

> Thanks heaps for the tip Vernonv  Was sort of planning to do that already, although hadn't actually bought a bucket... And no, no mixer, just the wheel barrow and shovel... Or maybe I should get a mixer... 
> In any case, had to modify some downpipes today, they were in the way. Then started to put the carport up. To the Titan salesman who told me that one person should be able to do it by himself, I say "HA - yeah right..." It probably doesn't help that I weigh in at a piddly 54kg, but even if I was big and burly I think I'd struggle in a large way to put it up by myself...    
> The frame is up, we were hoping to get the footings done today too, but I think that'll have to wait for another day. It's sitting very short at the moment (and very very not level), it'll have to be lifted up about 200mm on one side and about 100mm on the other side (to get it level with the house), and the front will probably need to be lifted up at least as much (there is massive fall on the right front at the moment, my garden is really not level and I think I dug the front right hole too deep due to the storm water piping... Might fill it back in a little) 
> Question: The Titan salesman recommended hiring some props to help lift and get the frame level. How do you stop the frame from falling off the props? At the moment it sort of leans to one side. Apart from the house, there isn't really anything solid to tie it to. I thought of pegs in the ground, but the frame is really quite heavy, I don't think pegs are going to do much.  
> Anyway, thanks heaps for all your help. Next weekend will hopefully be spent levelling and squaring the frame up, and pouring the footings. 
> YAY!

  Demuire, did you use a bevel... the posts don't appear straight to me  :Smilie: . 
I had the same problem with a stormwater pipe. Needed to relocate the pipe some 300mm away for some 6 metres to the pit (used two 45 degree elbows cemented together). 
I solved the big hole issue by making a sheet metal cylinder 300mm x 600mm, filled the soil around it and was left with a neat hole. In fact decided to do that with all the holes which also allowed me to place the footers in their exact positions and level with the others. 
Council inspector was quite happy about that all. Then filled the holes with concrete.

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## demuire

Well, it's all painted and the roof is up:   
I need to finish putting screws in the roof (I've got about 1/3 of them in at the moment), trim the roof down (it's too wide, I didn't know I could "squash" the sheets in when I started screwing them in), put on the gutter and the trim around the edge of the roof (I forget what they're called), and then I guess it's done!  It's taken waaaay longer than I'd like, but I suppose I've also saved myself some $1500 or something...

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## journeyman Mick

> ............put on the ..............trim around the edge of the roof (I forget what they're called), ............

  Demuire,
it's called "barge capping". 
Mick

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## Bluegum

Hey demuire looks good mate now its time to relax and have a bash to celebrate the good work.

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## demuire

Woo hoo, finally finished  :Smilie:   Cutting out the notches for the top barge capping was fun (not)  :Smilie:  
Only 2 things left to do - call council to get them to come and approve everything, and find some suitable lights...  Most of the car ports I see around seem to use those motion sensing spotlights, but they're not overly attractive...  Not sure what else would work well though.

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