# Forum Home Renovation Decking  ultradeck or spa-n-deck?

## billhady

I have allowed a merbau deck to settle for six weeks. I was planning to finish with an acrylic "oil", but can't choose between Ultradeck or Spa-n-deck. Is there anyone who has used both products and can say if either one is much better? I was enthusiastic about Spa-n-deck until I read the directions on the container and it said you have to use both their Powerlift and Woodprep products beforehand. And then it goes on to say that they recommend another product as well if you are using a tropical wood like Merbau or Jarrah. Seems an awful lot of effort if you could get by with a simpler application like Ultadeck.

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## jimj

Welcome to the forum! If you dig through the archives you will find a large amount of discussion regarding timber coatings both water and oil based. I restore (sand & recoat) decks in my little one man business. I can say that I have seen and sanded off every product that is sold on the shelves here in SE QlD. I can only speak about those products. I have to the conclusion that there is no one best product. Each one available has its pros&cons.
Such as cost, ease of application, ease of clean up,looks, smell,longevity in the sun,time between recoating,peeling,blistering,delaminating etc.etc. 
If you have a look at the Intergrain outdoor timber brochure you will note that they make 4 timber coating products. Natures oil is an oil based product. The other 3 ultradeck,natural stain and DWD are water based. They show a longevity graph with what they suggest is how the products handle the sun. Natures oil ranks the lowest followed by ultradeck second. The longest lasting is Natural stain and DWD. In saying that I would only pick ultradeck as DWD in the sun will blister and delaminate. Spa&Deck would be as close to ultradeck in similarity.
The 3 products that Flood list Powerlift is a detergent with the same active ingredient as napisan. There is a lot of info on this in the archives. Wood prep is oxalic acid based. A lot of info as well. The third productI think you are referring to is VC175. This is a mould inhibitor-retardant. cost is 20.00/10 litres of coating. 
The one thing that is mostly ignored is keeping up with the maintenace in a timely manner.
I have learned that in total sun exposure year round that 3 coats of Spa&Deck will keep most folks fairly happy for 12-14 months. 4 coats intially installed lasts 15-18 months before recoating will be required.
All that is needed to recoat is wash off the dirt and apply 1-2 coats and you will have the same longevity as before.
I have used Spa&deck for 9 years,7years professionally in my business.
It is guaranteed to not crack,blister or peel for 2 years if applied according to the manufacturers recommendations. I don't work for Flood nor am I paid by them for anything. I have to apply something to my customers decks. I can say I have completed over 200 decks with the product.
Not everyone likes the the colours-looks etc. It is however an easy product to apply & maintain.
I very rarely get a call from clients over any issues with the product regarding failure. Mostly  fromfolks who havn't maintained it. 
If you decide to try spa&deck and want some tips on application give me a call and I can share with you how I apply. It is a little different from the Spa&Deck instructions
Good luck 
jimj   www.restore-a-deck.com.au   0409 260 205

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## billhady

> Welcome to the forum! If you dig through the archives you will find a large amount of discussion regarding timber coatings both water and oil based. I restore (sand & recoat) decks in my little one man business. I can say that I have seen and sanded off every product that is sold on the shelves here in SE QlD. I can only speak about those products. I have to the conclusion that there is no one best product. Each one available has its pros&cons.
> Such as cost, ease of application, ease of clean up,looks, smell,longevity in the sun,time between recoating,peeling,blistering,delaminating etc.etc. 
> If you have a look at the Intergrain outdoor timber brochure you will note that they make 4 timber coating products. Natures oil is an oil based product. The other 3 ultradeck,natural stain and DWD are water based. They show a longevity graph with what they suggest is how the products handle the sun. Natures oil ranks the lowest followed by ultradeck second. The longest lasting is Natural stain and DWD. In saying that I would only pick ultradeck as DWD in the sun will blister and delaminate. Spa&Deck would be as close to ultradeck in similarity.
> The 3 products that Flood list Powerlift is a detergent with the same active ingredient as napisan. There is a lot of info on this in the archives. Wood prep is oxalic acid based. A lot of info as well. The third productI think you are referring to is VC175. This is a mould inhibitor-retardant. cost is 20.00/10 litres of coating. 
> The one thing that is mostly ignored is keeping up with the maintenace in a timely manner.
> I have learned that in total sun exposure year round that 3 coats of Spa&Deck will keep most folks fairly happy for 12-14 months. 4 coats intially installed lasts 15-18 months before recoating will be required.
> All that is needed to recoat is wash off the dirt and apply 1-2 coats and you will have the same longevity as before.
> I have used Spa&deck for 9 years,7years professionally in my business.
> It is guaranteed to not crack,blister or peel for 2 years if applied according to the manufacturers recommendations. I don't work for Flood nor am I paid by them for anything. I have to apply something to my customers decks. I can say I have completed over 200 decks with the product.
> ...

  Thanks JimJ for your very detailed answer, particularly for your clarification about Powerlift and Napisan.
I was leaning towards Ultradeck and I suppose my only question is about whether or not you have personally used the Intergrain product or know anyone else who has and how the results compare with Spa-n-Deck. That is, does it look similar and does it tend to last for a similar amount of time? One reason I am looking at Ultradeck is that my main local suppliers have stopped carrying Spa-n-Deck and recommend Ultradeck. There is one place that still stocks it, but looking at all the costs involved (all the products they recommend you use with it and the time to apply it all) it would be more expensive in terms of the outlay and the time involved. Once again, many thanks for your help!

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## jimj

No I havn't applied ultradeck but have sanded it off along with all the other intergrain products as well as Spa& deck that hadn't been maintained.
Most stores will push what they sell and I think you would be equally as happy. A good product can be applied poorly as well. The key to the story is starting with the best state the timber can be in,applying correctly and keeping up the coatings on a regular basis. Knowing that sun exposure is by far the greatest degrader.  
I know that Flood want other products used as well. IMO a fairly small outlay in comparison the cost of the deck. However everyone has to work within their own budget.
What I do find puzzling is that Flood is a small company and yet to my knowledge are the only ones that will back up Spa&Deck with a 2 year gurantee. I also know they will bend over backwards on a Sunday afternoon at 3pm on their toll free hotline to offer advice and answer any questions you might have.
In saying that the only 2 shades from the 6 they make that I like is jarrah & sedona-walnut. That is just my own personal bias.
Most of the other coatings on the market will offer some type of warranty that is fairly nebulous or state that they have no control over its use so don't bother us when it stuffs up.
As I stated in my earlier posting. I don't work for them nor supplied by them. I just want to keep my clients happy and Spa&deck seems to be doing it nicely. When another product comes along that outperforms it on looks,longevity,ease of use etc I will be switching. Over the past 3 years I have tested 4 new products on the market with mini-deck panels on my roof. There they sit for a min 12 months before I even look at them. None have handled the 12 months and these are sitting next to Spa&deck panels. 
Most products on the market will work pretty good if under a roofline butnot as good in the sun 
best of luck 
jimj

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## billhady

> No I havn't applied ultradeck but have sanded it off along with all the other intergrain products as well as Spa& deck that hadn't been maintained.
> Most stores will push what they sell and I think you would be equally as happy. A good product can be applied poorly as well. The key to the story is starting with the best state the timber can be in,applying correctly and keeping up the coatings on a regular basis. Knowing that sun exposure is by far the greatest degrader.  
> I know that Flood want other products used as well. IMO a fairly small outlay in comparison the cost of the deck. However everyone has to work within their own budget.
> What I do find puzzling is that Flood is a small company and yet to my knowledge are the only ones that will back up Spa&Deck with a 2 year gurantee. I also know they will bend over backwards on a Sunday afternoon at 3pm on their toll free hotline to offer advice and answer any questions you might have.
> In saying that the only 2 shades from the 6 they make that I like is jarrah & sedona-walnut. That is just my own personal bias.
> Most of the other coatings on the market will offer some type of warranty that is fairly nebulous or state that they have no control over its use so don't bother us when it stuffs up.
> As I stated in my earlier posting. I don't work for them nor supplied by them. I just want to keep my clients happy and Spa&deck seems to be doing it nicely. When another product comes along that outperforms it on looks,longevity,ease of use etc I will be switching. Over the past 3 years I have tested 4 new products on the market with mini-deck panels on my roof. There they sit for a min 12 months before I even look at them. None have handled the 12 months and these are sitting next to Spa&deck panels. 
> Most products on the market will work pretty good if under a roofline butnot as good in the sun 
> best of luck 
> jimj

  Thanks for the additional info. It ha been a big help. I suppose I am still leaning towards Ultradeck, partly because of anecdotes that it brings out the grain a bit better. I think I recall in another one of your posts that you acknowledged that Spa-n-deck does tend to cover the grains more than some people would like. This was confirmed for me yesterday when the chap in the local paint store showed me a sample of S&D had done on Merbau. It did seem to cover the grain more than I would like. So I am going to try out the small can of Ultradeck on the steps and if it looks okay I'll go ahead. I understand it may not last as long as S&D, but a couple of people have told me that they and their customers get around 2 years out of it in full sun. Maybe that is because the Sydney sun is not as fierce as in Qld. Personally, I am happy to do a new coat every year. I was going to try out both products, but the smallest amount of Spa-n-deck I could find was two litres, which was going to cost $60 - a bit too high for a "sample pot". 
Thanks again for all your help.

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## jimj

I am sure the ultradeck will do the job for you. Keeping up the maintenance when required seems to be the biggest challenge for many folks. 
best of luck and I am sure others who log onto this forum will benefit from how things went for you! 
jimj

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## Bobbydog58

Thanks for your information jimj. I went to your website and the restoration photos are amazing. I have a merbau deck which I coated in oil 5 years ago. When it started to turn grey I tried to clean it with a Feast Watson product but couldn't get the grey/black to lift. I then tried to pressure clean it but that just made a bigger mess and wasted water. I gave up and decided to apply the oil and the deck went black.I live under the escarpment in Wollongong and the black timber has not lightened since I put it on last year.
It as been screwed down and the holes counter sunk but there is still some bowing in the timber. I wanted to hire a sander but was worried that I would damage it on the bowed timber. I also have garden beds in the same timber so I don't know how I would sand them. I was hoping that using Napisan would do the trick and then Spa and Deck. What do you think?
My second problem is that the merbau deck sits next to a treated pine deck and I was hoping to pull them together by using the same paint colour. They are currently two different colours. Again I would love to sand everything back and have them look as beautiful as the photographs on your website. Any help would be appreciated.

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## baileyboy

I use Ultradeck and is very happy with it. Initially, I noticed that there are some colour differences due to the differences in colour of the original timber but over time, I didn't notice it/care. My deck has full sun over 6 months and still looks great. I'm in the process of putting a roof on it. Once that's done, I'll put another coat on it. 
I did find Ultradeck dries quite quickly. I think spa-n-deck (you apply it on wet timber) could be a good advantage so you don't get lapping lines.

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## Bobbydog58

I spent several hours on the weekend trying to clean the deck with the Napisan method and with very little effect. How hard to you need to scrub? It's now a patchy black and silver colour. Looks awful. Being female I scrubbed as hard as I could but maybe I need to pay someone to do it.
I spent Sunday with neck pain!! :Doh:

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## jimj

Without seeing photos of your deck I can only imagine from your description how it looks. However , from what you have said ,I am very confident it is past the point where chemicals (napisan-sodium percarbonate & oxalic acid) is going to have any significant effect. You can scrub hard all day and use a pressure cleaner and still wind up with something that looks like ###$$@@**^^. 
As much as folks don't want to hear this physical abrasion (sanding) will remove the top layer of weathered timber and expose nice timber to coat with the product that you choose.
I would suggest finding someone who can sand it and you do the coating to save as $ as possible 
good luck 
jimj   www.restore-a-deck.com.au

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## jimj

Sorry I should have gone back and read the rest of your question. Merbau is a dark red-brown timber and pine is nearly white-yellow. This is impossible to stain regadless of the tint colour of the product. The only way to have all look identical is with a solid coloured acyrilic exterior paint. 
I am not sure if this is wahat would please you 
jimj

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## Bobbydog58

Does acrylic paint scratch when you drag a chair over it? I can paint the treated pine to match the house colour and then sand back the merbau and use the product your suggested. Thanks for your advice.

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## jimj

Yes! usually anything heavy enough when dragged across decking will scratch the wood and its coating. 
I have heavy timber chairs and table.I have found that gluing marine boating carpet (cheap,easy to cut with sharp scissors,found at Bunnings,BCF etc) will eliminate virtually all scratching. 
I have had about 25 customers do the same and all like the results. 
I use a glue from Dunlop for gluing artificial grass-turf to concrete. It is in a can at Bunnings usually in the tiling department aroud $18.00. The carpet is gray-black. The fuzzy side touches the deck the smooth side is the glue side. 
Cut the carpet slightly bigger than the size of the timber. spread generously the glue,let get tacky over 2 minutes. place the carpet on,flip the chair back to normal position making certain the carpet hasn't shifted,leave 24 hours to set,trim off anything that bothers you and your done. 
I have found the premade pads with the sticky side seems to come off easily when pulled over decking boards,gaps,dome headed nails etc. 
If done correct this won't come off at al easily 
jimj

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## Bloss

> Does acrylic paint scratch when you drag a chair over it? I can paint the treated pine to match the house colour and then sand back the merbau and use the product your suggested. Thanks for your advice.

  If you use a decking paint they are more robust and abrasion resistant - use when new needs more care as with all coatings. First and best protection is to make sure all furniture has no sharp edges on the legs - second is to educate your family and guests!   :Smilie:

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## Bobbydog58

Very clever ideas! :2thumbsup:

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## jimj

:Biggrin:  
 Bloss! Education is the key to most things, however,   educating MY friends and family is nearly an oxymoron !
 Just find it easier to glue on the carpet and for get about it 
jimj: :Biggrin:

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