# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Bathroom Renovation Project

## juan

Well I have finally bit the bullet and started my bathroom renovation.  Basically the old bathroom is outdated and too small(2400mm x 1950mm). I have an unused storage area(1700mm x 1950mm) adjacent the bathroom which will enable the bathroom to increase in size of the new bathroom by removing a single brick wall and bricking up the opening on the storage area. The new bathroom will be 4200mm x 1950mm.
An additional room was built on the rear of the house during the 60s. They never removed the bathroom window but just put a timber louvre over it in the family room to hide it. It provided ventilation to the bathroom via the family room.
Quotes to do the bathroom ranged from $40K (putting villaboard on the window wall) to $55k doing it all in solid brick and plastering the bathroom anew.
I have decided to do it with brick and plaster after much debate. I will feel more confident knowing it is all solid.
I am planning undertile heating and have ordered the kit from Bulgaria via eBay (cost $177 including shipping)
I like the idea of a velux skylight/roof window (remote control electic opening) but will delay a decision on that. 
I will update as I go along and welcome any thoughts before I progress too far. 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

The window came out without any problems. So far so good. 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

Well I have managed to fill the void with bricks and the new bricks provided better support for the brick courses above. The original lintel from 1914 looked a little flimsy but had stood the test of time with limited cracking.
Cheers
Juan

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## patty

mate is sounds like a big job i renovated my old bathroom 2 yrs ago it took me 3 weeks the room is about 3000x 1800 we crammed in the biggest corner spa we could get and double 1200mm vanity I had to lose the shower recess and now the shower resides over the spa the old door swung into the bathroom I had to put a cavity slider in plus i incorporated a laundry chute in the vanity that leads straight to downstairs to the laundry  that will be a big bathroom once ya finished good luck with it mate

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## juan

Thanks Patty, 
I estimated 10 - 12 weeks from go to whoa but I plan to keep using the bathroom for as long as possible so the children will not hog our ensuite. I will leave the current things intact until I am ready to strip the plaster off and break up the floor. That will be after the window is put in the outer wall, the dividing wall removed and the other opening bricked up with a cavity wall. 
Cheers
Juan

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## peter_sm

Looks well planned out I like it. Our bathroom is 1800 x 3600, so not much smaller than yours, pretty much a mirror image, and planned almost exactly the same way. 
I think you can utilise the skylight idea quite well in a bathroom. They are often used at night. A skylight can let in as much light as a window. 
Our window is 1220 x 600, and on the south side, so it isn't brilliant. Above the bath too.

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## peter_sm

Oh and time frame. I am jealous of you guys I have been going for 6+ months on a combined bathroom and laundry renovation.

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## patty

no way pete the missus was preggers and ready to pop anytime I was up until well after midnight geez i pissed the neighbours off something chronic! then off to work at 6.00 i would not be jealous of that if i were you mate if ya can take your time do it i know how frustrating it can get and sometimes i thought i was going nowwhere but it all came together I know one of my mates has been going on his now for 1 month now and and the missus is driving him up the wall..t also helped that my bro inlaw is a tiler and i hold dual trade as spark and plumber i tink i should have got it done quicker than that!

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## patty

Juan just make sure you turn the underslab heating off after the floor has heated up and dont leave it on as the elect meter will be spinnin its tits off

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## peter_sm

Oh Patty. My missus was the one who wanted it started when she was preggers. Our son is now 4 months old. She seemed to think it would only take a few weeks. I shook my head, but I had to keep the momma happy. 
I was able to install the new bath and fill it for her with hot water in the beginning stages of labour. The water just had to be let under the hose afterwards. 
Still it is all worth it. I have been doing everything except for the actual electrical connection and the shower screen installation. Just takes time.

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## juan

Hi Patty 
The undertile heating is only 560watts and will be on a programmed timer. Not bad for $177 if it lives up to the promises. By the way I am an electrician so that is a help. 
Here is the link 
Cheers
Juan  http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....3671&rd=1&rd=1

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## juan

I have cleaned of 99% of the 10 layers of paint and it looks almost usable keeping the natural look without painting it. I will replace the glass panels with leadlight panels. Tomorrow I will spend and hour with the fine sandpaper and see how good it comes up. Fall back is paint the sucker. 
Cheers
Juan

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## patty

go hard matey

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## patty

I installed i think the brand was devireg or somthin like that complete house for a customer years back it was on a mat and total load was something from memory 14 kw ended up going on offpeak oh by the way they also have the heating mats for bathroom mirrors you mount on lining and grout over no more foggy mirrors i installed one and she works a treat! dont forget the wall mounted heated towel rack also the best thing i ever installed

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## juan

Hi Patty, 
Yeah a mirror demister and heated towel rail are in the plan and budget. Have been looking at both on eBay. Will run the wiring before I replaster and it will be there when and if I get them. 
Cheers
Juan

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## Mcblurter

Quotes to do the bathroom ranged from $40K (putting villaboard on the window wall) to $55k doing it all in solid brick and plastering the bathroom anew. 
We are getting a new room nearly 6000 x 6000, a chimney removed, a concrete wall removed, double glazing, new toilet, sink, tiling in bathroom a second shower, moving existing toilet and a new HWS for around that amount!!!  Must be like weddings, add the word bathroom and triple your normal price! :Shock:  
Cheers
Mcblurter

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## Mcblurter

Oh, also getting 3 manual openable skylights with electric blockout blinds, two whirleygigs and a suntunnel for around the $8000 mark.  Will let you know the progress.
Cheers
McBlurter

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## juan

Well 2 hours work sanding the window and she looks almost usable. Cost for stripper and sandpaper was $27. Needs a coat of clear interior exterior finish($25), 2 brass handles ($12 ea), 2 brass opener slides($19.50 ea) and 2 leadlight panels for which I have been quoted $220 each and she should look ok.
Total cost of window approx $550 
Waiting for a builder acquaintance to come and put a steel lintel in for me and saw the opening. 
I will now check out the footing for the wall I have to brick up so that I am ready to start bricklaying after the window is in. 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

Today was cut a hole for window day. 
Took 5 hours to cut it and stuff around with 2 lintel bars. 
Tomorrow I will finish off the lintels and trim up the stonework ready to plaster around the window to tidy her up.         
Once the plaster and concrete around the lintels is cured I will start bricking up the large wall opening in the foreground of the bottom photo and removing the bathroom end wall. 
Old bathroom still going strong. 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

Trying to think ahead re the tiling task.
As you can see in the proposed plan, I will have the shower in a corner. The brick walls will end up re-plastered as the existing plaster is not flash. Since I proposed tiling to 2m all round, I will ask plasterer to only skim coat above 1.90m.
My question relates to the tiling of the shower / wet area. I assume I need to waterproof the whole shower wall and floor area as well as around the bath and around the bottom of the walls to 300mm. Do I need to waterproof the screed on the whole bathroom floor? 
Will I need to tape the wall to wall and wall to floor joins of the shower area?
What are the best brand products for the waterproofing? 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

Well my timetable to renovate the bathroom is slipping behind. Hurry up and wait is the name of the game. Wait on the plumber and the weather.   
Have seriously underestimated the time to make good after the new sewer, gas and water main are installed.  I allowed a week but reckon 2 weeks is more likely.    
I have started bricking up the wall. As you can see I am no brickie but it will be all hidden and plastered so that is fine. Soon  I will start demolition of the dividing brick wall.   First an access hole in the dividing wall, then complete bricking the other wall. Need to keep the old bathroom going as long as possible to limit disruption.

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## juan

Once the dividing wall is gone I will look at putting in a new ceiling with Villaboard at a new lower height of 3.0m rather than the 3.4m. That will be same height as the new extension we are planning which will be at 3.0m. 
Q?  What is the best way of suspending the new ceiling below the existing lath and plaster one . I had thought of fixing a 100mm x 40mm pine frame around the wall then new joists attached to that frame and suspending them from the existing joists above with pine battens. 
Does this sound OK???

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## Dirty Doogie

Sounds OK to me Juan!  
If you run your 100 x 40 pine ceiling joists across the narrow dimension of your room you wont have to fix them to your existing joists. Fix the joists with joist hangers to the pine running around the walls, making sure that the pine framing around the wall is securely fixed into the masonry walling. 
doog

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## juan

Thanks for that. Not sure what joist hangers are but will look around. I had  thought it might be a good idea to support the new joists from the joists above but like your idea better as it will reduce the likelihood of any movement in the new ceiling when I tramp around the roofspace. 
Cheers

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## juan

Well the sewer trenches have been filled and the mess somewhat remedied. I am now back at the bathroom.  Have almost finished bricking up the outer skin of the cavity wall opening.      
Had to cut an access hole to the extension area.  Bathroom still going strong.    
Hope to have the inside wall bricked up to the lintel by end of next week.  Big task then is to remove the 300mm square timber lintel and brick it up solid. 
Cheers
Juan

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## juan

Well a few more bricks have been laid so here is the latest photos. 
Finished bricking up to the timber lintel on the laundry side. No need to worry what it looks like as it will eventually be covered with villaboard or the like when we redo the laundry.    
Started pulling down the wall to get some bricks to brick up the bathroom side of the cavity wall.   
When I have the lintel supported by the two walls of bricks I will hit it with a chain saw and remove it. I will do it in about 3 bites rebricking where the lintel was.  It was suggested I should leave the old timber lintel there and plaster over it but I think I would end up with cracks so I will take the sucker out.

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## zacnelson

Hi Juan, I've been following your reno story with great interest for some time now, thanks for posting the regular updates. 
I just have a quick question; when you're building a cavity brick wall, do you use some kind of brick-tie that spans the cavity? 
Also, is it common practice to build one side of the wall first, and then the other side?  Or is it more usual to build both sides simultaneously? 
Thanks, 
Zac

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## juan

Hi Zac, I am not a brickie so will leave it to the experts to advise.  The opening is only about 1.8m in width but I did put wire ties in the outer skin to attach to the inner as it rises. I also used a couple of reinforcing wires in the courses for form sake.  I have taken care to dovetail into the existing courses where it meets the old walls. 
I see no reason to not brick them up separately.  For me it was a case of get one wall up asap so my daughter would not get shower fright from all the percieved  pervs lurking in the laundry. 
I should have the inner wall up to the lintel by the end of the weekend.  I will let it set a bit before hitting the lintel with the saw.  There is only 6 courses of bricks on top of the lintel so if she goes wobbly on me I will just rebrick them - one side will be plastered and the other not really visible unless you get on the roof with a ladder. 
Cheers

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## juan

I have started to remove the 2.0 metre long 300mm x 300mm timber lintel.
Started at the old bathroom end wall end of the lintel.     
Took out a couple of bricks above the lintel and hit it with the little talon chain saw. Made short work of it.  Time consuming bricking up to the brick courses as I do not have scaffold and am working on steps and a ladder.   
I cut a bit of the cement sheet off the laundry ceiling so I could see what is going on.  Laundry is due to be demolished in the coming months. 
At this rate it will take 5 days to remove the lintel and rebrick. Then I can start demolishing the old wall and stripping off the old plaster.

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## juan

Today I attacked the other end of the lintel and removed a chunk from the stone wall. I will brick the hole up tomorrow and then let it set before I take 2 more bites to finish it off.   
See the OZITO RHG-550K Rotary Hammer Drill.  This little sucker costs $68 at Bunnings and is my favourite toy.  I have only use it in destruction mode to date breaking bricks, plaster and weak concrete. It is an amazing tool.  Came with a 3 year warranty but if I had to bin it at the end of the bathroom renovation I would still say it is amazing.

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## juan

Finally removed all the lintel and tidied a bit in the laundry. The laundry will be gutted and rebuilt when the major renovation at the rear commences in the coming months so not worried too much what it looks like as the new wall will be covered with villaboard or something. Has blow in insulation above the cement sheet so thought I would close it up again temporarily.    
Can now get back to gutting the bathroom itself.

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## juan

Today I have put up most of a frame for the new ceiling at a height of 3.0 metres.     
Trying to do as much as possible while keeping the bathroom operational.  This week I will knock down the dividing wall and give some serious thought to the underfloor plumbing.

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## juan

Starting to knock down the internal wall.

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## Dirty Doogie

LOL juan - from the photo it looks like an apartment where I stayed in Beirut a few decades ago. Looks like your going to have to decommission the existing bathroom very soon though - that is when the fun starts! 
have you got another bathroom?

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## juan

You are right DD I will probably have to pull the pin on the bath/shower tomorrow. Keep the dunny going for a couple more nights. I will start digging the floor in the extension tomorrow.  The 100mm sewer is about 800mm below finished floor height and I will have to get the underfloor plumbing through or under the old internal wall foundation. 
The dividing wall is now gone and nothing fell down - that is a positive.   
I thought the plumber who did the hot and cold water about 50 years ago showed some innovation in not using bath set but rather just connected up 2 taps. Made his own tee piece too.

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## Dirty Doogie

Look at all that space behind the old wall!! 
I like the creative plumbing you uncovered - maybe you'll find something else under the floor. 
I once opened a bathroom wall and found the hot water pipe artfully soldered into a series of right angle corners - about 30 of them. I noticed scorch marks on some of the studs so I assummed they had been done onsite - but I had no idea what it was for! The only thing I could think of was that the boss made his apprentice practice in situ soldering.

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## juan

Plumber coming Monday to do the underfloor plumbing and I am running behind schedule to be ready for him. Problem is I have to get pipes through or under 4 foundations that are about 650mm deep. 
My little Ozito hammer drill / chisel is amazing. Breaks up the old floor without any drama.

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## Dirty Doogie

Woo Hoo! what a mess! I love it ! LOL

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## namtrak

Looks great, will be keeping an eye on this thread as the bathroom is my next job 
Cheers

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## memphis

Intrested to hear about the under tile heating, as I am doing a bathroom and have ordered the same stuff. Hope it works out ok, Im assuming it just gets laid in the tile glue as you go.

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## juan

Yes, the heating cable is laid out on top of the screed and is just tiled over.  It does not go under any fixtures like vanity and toilet.  I hope it performs as well as the reports say it does.

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## juan

Need to make urgent decision on location of floor waste outlet and how best to tile the floor  http://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...701#post587701

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## juan

Here is my original plan showing the tiling on the diagonal in the hope that would make the room looked wider. Really never gave much thought to the location of the floor waste outlet expecting it to be in the middle.

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## woodbe

For what it's worth... 
We have a diagonally tiled bathroom, and we have a straight border around the edges. 
The border follows the outside of the shower screen, and the pattern repeats inside the shower - there is a border tile all around the inside of the shower, and the centre of the shower is diagonal tiles matching the angle and lines of the main floor. 
I've seen it done where the shower is tiled as part of the main floor - the border 'cuts through' the shower screen, and the shower only has a border on the edges closest to the outer wall. 
Both look good. I suspect you may find it hard to do a border around the shower without it looking strange because of the size of your tiles. ours are 195mm squares. 
You probably need to make some copies of your plan and draw some alternatives on it until you find something you like. 
Floor trap, I'd put it in the middle of the floor adjacent to the vanity... 
Heated floor is wonderful, but not very economical or eco-friendly  :Smilie:  
woodbe.

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## juan

Thanks Woodbe, 
I will go with a central drain and adjust position after I chose the final floor tile but before I pour the concrete floor.  I will consult with a tiler to see what they would charge to screed the floor and lay the floor tiles. 
It is undertile heating not in slab and only about 600watts . It seems you only need to have it on for about 30-60mins I am told to get a warm tile surface and a cosy feel.  I will install a programmable timer which they supplied and put the heated towel rail on at the same time as the undertile heating.

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## juan

The plumber arrived on time and took 3 hours to install the pipes for the underfloor plumbing. Inspection is tomorrow and he has marked out the walls for me to chase for the hot and cold water ready for him to install tomorrow.

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## juan

Hot and cold water installed in the bathroom and connected back to old  storage HWS to test everything is not leaking and working.  Plumber back next week to mount the Rinnai 26 HWS and disconnect the old one.  Will also extend the 25mm gas main up into the roof space for future use when the main building renovation takes place (soon I hope). 
Ran 20mm hot (insulated) and cold under the floor direct to the kitchen to reduce the length of the 1/2" hot water run that currently exists to the old kitchen. Hope this helps the Rinnai deliver hot water to the kitchen in an efficient manner.  Plumber will set the switches in the unit to increase the 55 degree factory preset max to 65 degrees. I will install 2 controllers (bathroom and kitchen). 
Have run everywhere in 20mm except at the terminations and valves so hopefully that will not be an issue. Have read quite a few negative threads about water temperature from the Instantaneous HWS not being hot enough to do the greasy dishes and am a bit apprehensive. 
20mm Hot and Cold run into the laundry ready for the laundry make over.

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## Dirty Doogie

I notice you went with 2 floor wastes after all !  how are the tiling issues going? 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doog, 
Plumber would not allow me only one floor waste so I am stuck with 2. Now the inspection is complete I have even considered closing one over and hiding it under the tiles. 
Spoke to Beaumont tiles expert and he suggested just tile floor flat with a small rise near the door.  He also said he would not bother with tiles on the diagonal. My brain is in overload on the floor tiling issue at the moment. Maybe I should tile floor with smaller tiles and use slopes to the waste? 
Planning to put a new floor in next week and will keep the level of the concrete 40mm below the finished height at the door with a further step down of about 20mm in the shower area.    How does that sound??? 
Dodging the tiling issue at present and pressing on to get ready for the plastering.

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## juan

I have been thinking a full length stainless steel floor channel / grate placed across the bathroom next to the bath hob may be an answer to making the floor tiling job a bit easier.    
Need to check with the plumber if I can discharge from the floor channel straight into the 80mm riser of the floor trap. If so I will move the  floor trap back next to the hob as in the photo in the link above. 
I would put one in the shower as well on the wall with the door.    
This way I can just slope the floor to the floor grate in one plane and that should allow me to use any size tile I desire  and make the installation of the undertile heating just a little easier as well.  I will still be stuck with one other floor grate in the middle of the floor but there would be not fall direct to that. 
Anyone got any thoughts on the grates as a solution to floor falls and multiple floor traps.

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## zacnelson

Juan, how did you cut those channels in the bricks for the pipe work?  What tool(s) were required?  Is it very hard to do? 
Thanks, 
Zac

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## juan

I believe you can hire a saw with 2 blades and a vacuum cleaner attachment that cuts the slot and avoids the dust.  That is what you can do. Or you can be a gumby like me and use a 9" (230mm) Ozito angle grinder with  diamond  saw to cut the bricks and then use the little Ozito rotary hammer to chisel out the channel.  Very easy but the dust is unbelievable. I placed a protable fan in the open window and that sucked the dust directly outside very rapidly but I was still covered in red dust.  Wore my daughter's plastic shower cap, an old hat, goggles, mask and old clothes.  Had to blow down the walls with my garden blower when finished to get the film of red dust off the walls in the room. Luckily by keeping the door shut very little got into the rest of the house.

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## Dirty Doogie

Hi Juan, 
those full length stainless grates are mega bucks but they look very swish! So you going to put the grate right down near the bath - what about the floor waste in the middle of the room?  Stop it off and tile over it ?

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## juan

Hi Doogie, 
Yeah they are not cheap but I think it is the answer to the tiling problem. 
The floor trap in the middle will have no fall to it as the floor will be on one plane. I will either just put it there in the tiling or maybe break the rules and tile over it. Worst case senario is I have to take up a tile to get to it if required.

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## bricks

If you tile over the floor trap- Im assuming this is the one at the bottom of the photo, Your basin will not drain properly. 
The reason for this is the same reason that when you hold your finger on the end of a drinking straw the water does'nt fall out the bottom, it's an air-lock situation.  
The basin line is already at what looks like it's maximum un-vented length from the trap, Tile over the trap and IMHO it won't work. 
You can buy a fiting called a "smart tile floor drain" they are expensive ($100) but look good and are easy to install because they are square. And depending on your local regs you can probably fall the floor as tho the second trap isn't there and just install it without the tiles falling to it. 
Just my 2 cent's.

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## juan

My plumber has confirmed what you said Bricks. He also does a lot of work for the Hilton Hotel chain and said steer clear of the stainless steel channel grates as they are difficult to clean and need very regular cleaning to avoid smells from mould etc. 
I think the smartile is a consideration.  Waiting for tiler to look at it and advise best way to go. Waiting on plasterer also. Hurry up and wait is the name of the game. 
Rinnai 26 Plus installed yesterday but still supplying laundry and kitchen from it via old 1/2" copper line.  Really happy as can see great improvement and expect even better when the new direct 20mm line to the kitchen is swapped over.  We tuned the unit up to 65 degrees for the kitchen and laundry and there is a tempering valve on the 20mm line to the bathroom.

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## juan

Plasterer has promised me he will come tomorrow morning and hopefully I am all ready for him.  I decided to plaster before doing the floor slab to fit in with the plasterer.  
The walls of the bathroom have rising damp due to the breaching of the dampcourse. This shows up quite well in the photo attached. House was built in 1914 and suspect the bathroom was done in the 30s.They just loaded soil up against the bricks above the dampcourse and then put concrete on top. No plastic in those days. Luckily there is no other damp in the house apart from the bathroom walls.  The house is unusual for the area as the floor level is about 750mm above ground level outside. There is heaps of room to move around under the timber floors.  This has been very effective in eliminating damp in all the walls except the bathroom with a concrete floor. 
The wall with the hot and cold plumbing is a cavity wall and the cavity was full to about 1metre in height.  I had the end open when bricking and managed to clean out the cavity. After the plasterer had gone I will dig down below the dampcourse (old and new) and ensure  a plastic  film  prevents any material from coming in contact with the brickwork or dampcourse. That should isolate the damp undersoil. All the homes in our area have automatic switching sump pumps in the cellars as the water table is quite high and they used to get wet feet in winter. In recent years the water table seems to have dropped and the pump had not run to my knowledge for about 8 years.

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## Dirty Doogie

Hi Juan,
The lower walls still look a bit damp in the pics. Also the room looks much narrower than before.  I'm curious to know what the plasterer uses in there - is he going to glue on gyprock or trowel plaster the walls?

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## juan

Hi Doog,
Yes there is dampness in the walls and I am told that will take months to disappear but should not be an issue as the source of the dampness will be eliminated. Interestingly it was not so noticeable until I took a photo with the flash.
The walls will be solid plaster. The bathroom renovation quote I received was based on sticking plasterboard direct to the walls and I was not really too keen on that idea and decided to brick up and plaster.    
Plasterer finished first coat on only 3 walls today and is back tomorrow. Bit of a pain for him because there is no floor in yet and ceiling is 3.2m above the dirt. He had to do the top of the wall using a ladder as it was too high for his step up. 
The room is 4.2m x 1.95m in size and does look narrow. The ceiling once installed may reduce that feel as may the island bath hob. Problem with old homes is that you have to make do with what you have got in most cases as to move brick walls to make a room wider can be dangerous to your financial stability.

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## Dirty Doogie

"to make a room wider is dangerous to your financial stability" LOL so true! 
I've never seen brown plaster mixes before - do you know what sort of mix he is using? I was was curious about how plaster would stick to slightly damp walls. 
Your project is moving along - but pretty soon you are going to have to come to grips with the tiling  :Biggrin: . 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doogie, 
I have been labouring for the plasterer and did all the mixing of the render.  Mix ratio he told me to use was 10 parts plastering sand to 2.5 parts cement.  Have finished the first render coat and used exactly 1.05 ton of plastering sand and 11 bags of cement. This was considerably more than he estimated and was probably due to the thickness applied to get the walls true. 
Tomorrow he will do the skim or setting coat to the top metre of wall which will not be tiled but rather painted. He also plans to do the outside surround of the window to tidy up where we cut it into the 300mm thick sandstone wall. 
Yes getting near to the dreaded floor tiling. Have decided to take the plumbers advice against installing the stainless steel floor channel grates as they are a problem to keep clean and odour free apparently and cost like you said an arm and a leg ($1000 to be precise). 
My current thinking is that I will relocate the floor trap that is in the middle of the room nearest the bath to a spot near the wall between the bath hob and the toilet pan.  I will then screed the floor on a flat plane but sloping diagonally from corner to corner (ie from the door down to the relocated floor trap). That way I will have a perfectly flat floor to tile on yet have a fall to the trap (farthest from the door)in case there is a flood situation. Shower will have its own 20mm set down.
HOW DOES THIS SOUND TILERS OUT THERE?

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## patty

Looking

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## patty

whoops what happened there (previous blog) havent been on the site for a while the Missus was starting to think I was having an internet affair! ????ing paranoid aint they!I thought I would check in and see how thing are goin lookin good mate just a quick question did you use any lime when mixing the render? and how thick did you have to puti it on? Did he trowel it on to start with then screed it off setting up batten on the brick wall in stages? Have fun!

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## juan

No lime just 4 parts good plastering sand to 1 part cement. Make it a bit sloppy. Wet the wall a bit and she sticks like sheet to a blanket. He started at the bottom of the wall and put a strip about 200mm wide horizontal along the wall at the lowest point. He then put another strip about 2m up the wall and used a long straight edge and level to get the  strips set up. Real easy. He then had the guide and just filled in between the plaster strips. No battens.  Apply with a steel trowel off the hawk. 
Then leave a while to set a bit and just use the wooden straight edge to wipe it off to the same depth as the strips. He then went to the top of the wall and set another strip there off the half finished wall. Then continued filling in the top gap and level off with a straight edge.  Then used a wood float to get a nice smooth floated finish but roughed it up a little so it would absorb moisture later when applying the skim/set coat. 
I would say the plaster on the wall would be about 15mm average but varying beween say 5mm in a few spots to 25mm in other low spots. 
The secret is get good sand and make the mix on the weak side. Biggest mistake for us DIYers is making it too strong. We think it is better with more cement but the opposite is the case. Apparently it causes crazing later. Use 4:1 or 5:1 mix. 
I would have no qualms about rendering a whole room now after watching the expert in action for 3 days. I would not try the set coat with hard finish plaster though that looks a little more of an acquired skill. 
STILL HOPING FOR SOME FEEDBACK FROM TILERS ON MY IDEA FOR THE FLAT TILTED FLOOR AS DISCUSSED IN COUPLE OF POSTS BACK.   
Cheers

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## juan

Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend. 
Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.   
cheers

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## bricks

> Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend. 
> Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
> Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.   
> cheers

  
Who moved the floorwaste?, was it the plumber or you? 
I'm hopeing that you did'nt just roll the top of the floorwaste over? The riser section must be straight up, and no longer than 600mm.  
If the entire waste was moved, i'm hopeing the plumber did it with regard to the correct pipe lengths and falls etc. 
If you did it, you'd better ring the plumber and get him to ok it.
A customer once did that exact same thing to me, I walked off the job that day.     
If you m

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## juan

I do not touch things I do not understand.  Done by the plumber at great expense  
Cheers

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## bricks

As a plumber, 
When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.  
By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit. 
Cheers.

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## wonderplumb

> As a plumber, 
> When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.  
> By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit. 
> Cheers.

  What he said :2thumbsup:

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## juan

With the 100mm reinforrced concrete floor poured my thoughts are turning to the hob for the bath. I was thinking it might be simpler to maybe build it out of Hebel blocks?  We have decided on on a Stylus Classic 1700mm bath which is an island bath (oval shape). 
Plumber has asked me to leave a big opening where he has to hook up the bath drain.  Unsure whether it is best to tile the top of the hob before Plumber supports the bath in mud and connects it up??
Was thinking I could build a rear wall and two end walls of the hob to support the top. Then use hebel block on top and cut it out to shape of the bath so it can just drop in later. This would allow me to tile the top of the hob although not sure if that is possible given I cannot tile the front of the hob until bath is in and connected and front wall closed with hebel. I am not a tiler and think I have to cut the front edge tiles on the hob to 45 degrees to get a neat external join.
What is the recommended procedute to install an island bath in a  brick hob?  Any  advice appreciated. 
Cheers

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## bricks

Firstly have you thought of timber framing and villaboard? (would be much easier.) 
Basically you need to......  
-Build the framing (block or timber)
-Install the structure of the top 
-Cut out hole for bath ( as small as posible) 
My advice would be to use timber and villa board for the frame and top. 
Install the bath.......
-Have it installed before you tile the hob, otherwise the tiling may be damaged ( baths are normally fairly heavy and awkward to manouver into bathrooms)
-Have the plumber install the bath with villaboard spacers under the lip of the bath, once it's done you can pull them out and slide your tiles underneath the bath to prevent unessesary detail cutting of tiles. 
-Allow 10-15mm and leave room for a silicone seal, if the bath lip touches the tiles the silicone seal may break during temperature expansion and contraction due to hot water or seasons changing. 
Enclose front of the hob.(block or villaboard.) 
-you could, if using block construction, build all of the hob except for a 600mm-800mm section of the hob near the waste, this should allow the plumber enough access while providing strength for the top of the hob. (check with the plumber) 
When tiling, use the corner dowel type tile edging on the edge of the hob to give a neat finish or make sure the top tiles extend the thickness of the front tiles to provide a clean factory made edge ( people will sit on the corner edge of the hob and you don't want cut bottoms) 
----Just a note with round baths.......... 
-Make sure you leave at least a 100mm gap at any side ( otherwise you won't be able to clean there easily and the gap with hold soap scum and grime.) 
-The lip of a round bath seems not to have the structural strength of a square one and tends to flex alot when you get in or out ( using the bath edge as support). To prevent this, use space invader foam under the lip ( get it in through the gap you leave to slide the tiles in) this will prevent flexing. 
After you tile, you probably will seal the bath to the tiled top with silicone, if flexing occurs the silicone seal will quite quickly break and allow splash water into the bath hob. 
-While making the hob be carefull not to allow it to have fall into any wall or corner, better to have forward fall to the floor in front ( splash water), but remember with tiles, anything out of level will show up like a big shiney neon sign. 
As an after thought- have you thought about ventilation for under the bath? You need some sort of grill/hole to allow air circulation under the bath.

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## juan

Thanks a million for your help Bricks. 
I have allowed exactly 100mm front and back of bath (between edge of bath and wall tile face and 125mm at the ends.
One of the end walls is a cavity wall which I built and I thought I would just knock a brick out of the wall inside the hob to access the cavity and give some sort of ventilation to the under hob area. 
With everything being solid construction in the bathroom I just thought I would keep it that way and build the hob with blocks to give it a solid feel.  
I will do like you suggest and put spacers along under the rim to facilitate sliding in the tiles later.
Like your idea of using space invader foam under the lip to give added support. Guess I would have to seal a bit between the bath side and the hob top to stop it all just exiting under the bath? Spoke to Stylus the bath manufacturer and they said flexing of the bath rim should not be a problem if the bath is properly seated in mortar bed and silicone sealed under the rim to the tiles. 
Will take on board the issues you raised of having a level or slightly sloping tiled hob top and cleaning. Because it is not a shower bath I thought water spillage should be minimal but will of course occur when kids play in the bath. 
Will investigate the corner dowel type tile edging (never heard of it as not a tiler) to get a professional finish on the bath hob front edge. 
Cheers

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## bricks

If you have cut the hole in the hob tight enough ( within 20-30mm ) of the correct fit then the expanda foam will hold itself there - it doesn't weigh very much and doesnt normally drop of it's own wieght through smallish gaps.  
And although venting through to the cavity is something i've not ever seen, I'm at a loss to think of a reason why you can't do it if it's an external wall???? ( think i've just learned something??) :2thumbsup:

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## juan

Have not touched the hob yet as I thought it might be best to do the ceiling first. Finish from the top down approach. 
Have an IXL Silhouette to install.  
Has anyone ever put one of these in a suspended ceiling?? 
The suspended ceiling is 400mm below the old lath and plaster ceiling. I rang IXL and they said to get a length of metal flue 235mm in diameter and to install that directly above the outlet on the fan with a clearance of 50mm between the fan and the flue end.  I have cut the hole in the old ceiling and installed the flue as directed.  
I am a bit concerned about having a gap of 50mm above the fan inside the gap between the ceilings!! I would have been more comfortable if they had advised me to attach a bit of flexible duct between the flue and the fan outlet. 
WHY DO THEY INSIST ON A 50mm GAP??  Is it to get air flow of stop vibration or something? 
Cheers

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## Dirty Doogie

Hi Juan,  I've installed several different types of IXL bathroom fans but not the silhouette. In every case the instructions that came with the fan said to attach the flue directly to fan exhuast housing.   
Where are you venting the flue at the other end - outside wall or into ceiling cavity (which I would have thought was a no no anyway)? 
One system I set up had an intermediatte fan mechanism as well as a  primary fan - in that case the instructions said to leave a 50 mm gap between the flue and the second fan unit. 
With that system the secondary fan was very powerful and would have shaken the flue around. As it was the secondary fan had rubber mounts and dampening to stop rattles in the ceiling. 
I'm not sure why they would recommend the 50 mm gap between the primary fan unit though but maybe the silhouette has a powerful fan . 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doogie 
It seems the silhouette has a more powerfull fan

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## juan

This is turning into one of the worlds slowest bathroom renovation projects.  Have just got the ceiling up and the cornices on. Bit of tidying up and then I will look at the bath hob this week maybe.

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## pawnhead

Nice cornices Juan.
They take a bit of time with a small tool to get the mitres just right, but they look great.  :2thumbsup:

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## juan

Thanks. They came up ok. 
Ended up using Gyprock Aquachek on the ceiling.  Had a ceiling fixer give me a quote to install the gyprock Aquachek but when he arrived he said he would just use standard plasterboard and run the sheets parallel with the joists. This was not what had been agreed so I said I would do it myself. He was a little upset but such is life.
I put in some cross supports between the joists and did it that way. It was a lot easier.

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## Dirty Doogie

Hi Juan - yeh nice cornice ! A bit of gyprock sanding and your ready for Tiling  :Biggrin: . I bet you can't wait ! Lol 
doog

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## juan

Yeah can't wait.  It used to keep me awake at nights but now I do not worry about it - I am too preoccupied with a door jamb that is out of alignment and the damn bath hob.  
I was going to build the hob out of hebel but after seeing the price of it I think I will use a pine frame and villaboard cladding.

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## Dirty Doogie

Hmm Juan almost 2 weeks and no update (have you been slacking LOL) !  We are into the frantic season - the lead up to xmas - tradies cant find time, stock sold out  - showerscreens can't get installed - argh the joy! Hope same thing doesnt happen on your bathroom. 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doog, 
Have decided to leave it as an unfinished project.  HA HA
No, I have been working every hour god gave on the damn Federal Election and have had no time for the beast since 5/11.  Will get back to the sucker next week. 
Have started building the bath hob out of Hebel.   
Cheers

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## pawnhead

How are you going to bed the bath in now that you've enclosed all four sides.  :Confused:

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## Dirty Doogie

Working on the election ??????  I must use that one sometime  LOL. I'm intrigued now.

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## juan

The 2 hebel blocks on the bottom right front are just levelled and supported on thin bed of sand and are easily removable. Once I finish putting all the other blocks in position with hebel adhesive and finishing the top 'cutout' it will be all solid and I will pull out those 2 blocks which are next to the waste pipe.  I am thinking I may tile the walls behind and around the bath as well as the hebel top of the hob before plumber and I drop in the bath and connect with a flexidinger.  Once the bath is in and set in mud then I will apply adhesive to the 2 blocks and set them back in position to close the hole so I can tile the front of the hob. 
Does this sound like the way to go?  I am learning to fly this sucker as I go.

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## Dirty Doogie

I havent installed an island bath - but I was under the impression that you had to put mortar under them when you set them for support. Some baths are self levelling / self supporting with plastic rubber bastings on the base.

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## juan

I have no affilliation to any candidate.

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## juan

Yes, I will put a couple of buckets of mortar under the bath before setting it in and connecting the flexidinger. Probably 1/3 fill it with water to keep it weighed down against the tiled top. Once satisfied all is ok then can close the opening at the front.

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## Dirty Doogie

Your plan sounds very feasible then and shouldn't cause any drama.  
Hope you've ordered the shower screen if you want to finish for Xmas - I got caught today - cut off for pre xmas installation was yesterday  GRRR!

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## juan

I have almost finished the hob ready to tile the top. Think I will do the hob in the crappy chocolate tiles the women chose for the floor.  I will waterproof the hob top and surrounding wall, then tile just the top before dropping in the bath. 
Will not be able to look at it until end of next week unfortunately as am flat out working at moment.
No rush as the young one is heading off on holiday for 6 weeks and we have the en-suite. 
At least if fits very snuggly in the cut out hebel top and I am surprised how solid it seems even before bedding in mortar. Really strong rim on the bath to support and add stability.   
cheers

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## Sugam

Hi Juan,
Read your bathroom reno psts with interest. How does your bathroom look like now... any new pics??? 
May I ask what you did about waterproofing the bathroom floor and walls.
Thanks in Advance

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## juan

I have just got back onto the beast today and went and bought some tiles and waterproofing kit.  Been working flat out and not had time to look at it. 
Primed the walls and the hebel hob with an acrylic primer. Applied silicon to the wall joints and hebel hob to wall joints. Will water proof the hob, shower walls (down to about 150mm above the floor) and around where the vanity unit will mount tomorrow with 2 coats of DriBond Liquid Flash. 
I have yet to screed the floor so will complete waterproofing the bottom of the shower wall and floor after the floor is screeded. My current plan is to tile the walls and the bath hob first(leaving the bottom row of tiles off of course) then screed the floor and tile it.

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## juan

Hi Sugam
Here is a photo just taken. I have just got back on the job again.   
I am not a tiler and what I know about waterproofing is dangerous. 
As mentioned earlier, I have primed all the walls to be tiled and the  bath hob top and side. That sealed the Hebel block hob quite nicely. I then applied a 1.2mm thick coat of DriBond Liquid Flash and while still liquid I embedded in it  200mm wide bond breaker tape allong the wall to hob joins. After a couple of hours I gave it another liberal coat of Liquid Flash waterproof membrane to completely cover the tape and ensure all the top surface of the hob is well waterproofed. I went up the wall 150mm with the waterproofing. 
I will  start tiling the top of the hob as soon as the waterproofing membrane cures (about 3 days I think). We are tiling the hob with the floor tiles. I can then put in the lower run of tiles on the end wall. 
Am tossing up wether to take of the architrave around the window and router it a bit so the tiles cuts can hide under it. I have a little 75mm frieze to install on top of the existing tile height and then one full tile on top of that. Do not blame me for the colour scheme there are women involved in the decision making around here. 
I bought a little tile saw from Bunnies for $86 and it seems to be the bees knees provided the diamond blade lasts. Gee I love tiling.

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## juan

Only did about 2 hours today so only laid about 20 tiles. Gee it's fun. 
Have been mixing small quantities (1kg) of adhesive by hand and it has small lumps in it which are a bugger to get rid of completely until I trowel the adhesive on the wall. Might try the mixmaster tomorrow.

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## Dirty Doogie

LOL Juan ! I would tend to do the router job on the window trims. That way you are left with the impression that the trim goes over the tiles and makes for a hidden tile edge. 
Grouting is lots of fun too LOL.

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## Dirty Doogie

Re Glue mixing - go and buy a paddle mixer attachment for an electric drill - they cost about $12 - it makes it so easy to mix tile glue and grout. You'll need at least a 550 watt drill though.

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## juan

I mixed two 1kg batches today using the old kitchen mixer. Brilliant job - just like cake mix - smooth as a babies bottom.

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## juan

Well 5 hours on day 3 of the tiling and starting to see a dent in the wall tiling part. 
Took Doogies advice and removed the architraves on the window and cut the tiles to go underneath.  Just hope I can router it ok. Have an old router but have not used it for 20 years.  
Unfortunately Beaumont Tiles is out temorarily of stock on the mosaics the women picked for the horizontal frieze so will be waiting probably until mid Jan to finish the walls at the earliest. 
Fitted the heated towel rail just to see it would mount ok (it will eventually be on the door hinge side as I have to fit a new door and hang it from the other side). Drilled the tiles before putting them up.  Cut holes for the underfloor heater controller and the power point for the towel rail. 
The other side will be more complicated to tile with the WC, vanity, bath and shower mixers, hot and cold outlers, power, lights  and temperature controller for the HWS. Also think I have stuffed up slightly with the height of the cold water outler for the WC so may have to cut the line and adjust the height(plumber will love me). Left the pipe exposed of render as anticipated it was not going to be right height.  Damn hidden plumbing in close coupled suite is more trouble than it is worth. 
Plan to mount a vertical vanity fluoro light fitting on either side of the vanity mirror so will just put  2 wall boxes in the render before tiling it to hold the fitting and terminate the cable. Then if I change my mind I can just tile over them and put a single fluoro above the mirror. Have already run the cables. 
I may tile the top of the hob with the floor tiles before tiling the other 2 walls.  After much deliberation and opinion collection I have decided not to bevel the tiles on the front edge of the hob nor to use a metal or plastic edge trim.  I will sort through the tiles and find 10 tiles with the most overspray on the sides and just butt them up. The trims stand out like dogs appendages and every display I have seen with the bevel cut tiles looks like rougher than just butting them up.    
Cheers

----------


## juan

Well I have finally got back on the project again.  Removed the door, removed all the 15 or so layers of paint with my metabo heat gun and some paint stripper. Surprised how easy it was. I filled the old hinge holes and latch holes in door and jamb with Fuller Building Filler (2 pack). It was 42degrees and it went off in about 1minute flat. Luckily I mixed only very small quantities and did one hole at a time. Great stuff to work with. I sanded the door lightly after filling the small dents and screw holes then painted the door with water based primer. 
I then rehung the door on the opposite side or the jamb. It was quite a pain because the door jamb is about 6mm out of plumb and the top of the door jamb is about 8mm out of level in 820mm. The door had been cut previously to fit the dodgy opening. I had to do the same trick but it worked out fine. I set the bottom hinge in by 3mm and the top one  out by 3mm to allow the door to line up nicely at the latch side. Once the architrave is on it will never be noticeable. Gave the outside of the bathroom door a light coat of some left over horrible pink paint just to disguise it a bit until we redecorate the whole house.     
I have tiled quite a bit of the wall . As  shown in the photos, I have allowed for 2 x double GPOs (one on each side of the vanity unit), Wall mounted switching for the fan, and heat lamps. I have also prepared the mounting and wiring for the Rinnai 26 Plus remote temperature controller.  There is wiring for 2 vertical fluoro lights to go on either side of the mirror. I collected the rest of the mosaic glass tiles for the frieze today so now hope to finish all the wall tiling tomorrow (bar the bottom run of tiles) 
My plan is then to tile the bath hob top and fit the bath. I have been promising to do thehob for a month. Anyway slowly getting there.

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## Dirty Doogie

Hey Juan, it is beginning to look good in there. I'm just wondering how you went with the tile edges on top of the hob - another trick to finish the edge is to use supafine grout to make a corner bead.

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## juan

Hi Doog, 
Have still not done the hob tiling but have decided dead set that I will just butt the tiles and not bevel them or use edge strip. Cannot decide where to start the floor tiling. I had thought of using the centre line of the bathroom floor(and hob) as a start point. but that will mean a bit of odd cutting around the door jamb where the tiles will be most noticeable. It would make tiling the hob (i am going to use floor tiles on it) easier if I centred them and I would get almost a full tile on either side of the room. If I try to use the centre of the door as the start line them I get some odd sizes at the shower set down and near the walls.
I have put the decision on hold until I finish the walls so as not to overload my brain. I can wait until after I screed the floor to make the decision anyway.  
Got sidetracked today and did not do much tiling but getting there slowly.

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## Pusser

It is looking really good.  Thanks Jaun for taking the time to keep us posted.  The problems and comments by the forum members has been most interesting and instructive.  Thanks again - great thread.

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## juan

Thanks Pusser.
The help I have received on this forum has been invaluable to me and if the discussions on various problems I have along the way helps others then the thread will be justified.
I have learned that no matter how well you think you have planned, bathroom renovations are a real worry. My estimate of time to complete the job given the scope of the work was totally unrealistic. My budget surprisingly is better than expected to date(touch wood) - as I had made allowances for anticipated issues on tasks already performed that fortunately I managed to solve cheaply. For example I had allowed $400 for a new door and possible replacement of the door jamb which was knocked about and out of plumb. I managed to  clean up the door ok and rehang it on the other side for the cost of 2 hinges, some paint stripper, sand paper and primer (total $45). No doubt something will come out of left field and skittle me if I ever get into the home straight as that is Murphy's Law but in the mean time I shall keep plodding along. 
Some of the problems that are worrying me and yet to be solved are: 
1    Floor tiling layout to fit in with the bath hob if I am to keep the joins aligned. Perhaps I should not worry about lining up the joins on the hob and floor? 
2     Finding a wall hung vanity unit which is 1200mm wide, reasonable narrow depth (do not want it fouling the shower angle door), china top possible with a jutting bowl, non-white preferable wood grain look veneer cabinet ( need some more colour to avoid hospital look) 
3    Deciding on lighting.  I have the IXL tastic installed just outside the proposed shower door and have allowed for 2 vertical flouros on either side of the mirror above vanity.  Need to either put in a chandelier type fitting above bath or maybe a couple of downlights. Have not pursued this area yet and had thought of a couple of CFL downlights above bath and in front of vanity in the centre line of the room? 
4   Screeding the floor. This one is a real worry. 
5    Underfloor heating to install in the screed. 
6  Getting a frameless shower screen at a reasonable price that looks classy and is good quality without blowing the budget.

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## Dirty Doogie

HI Juan,   
Its those little decisions like lights, shower screens, where tiles line up, getting the right vanity that usually drive me crazy - oh and things like matching taps, towel rails, color of grout. In fact pretty much everything about getting a good looking bathroom is annoying LOL. 
As for floor tiling - keep your full tiles for just inside the door, cut tiles at the room entrance looks crappy IMO. 
Unless your floor tiles are the same size as your wall tiles - the wall and floor groutlines  arent ever going to line up properly. In your situation I think I would tend to put the cut floor tiles under the vanity wall where they would hardly be noticed.  Are you still doing diagonal tiles?? 
Have you considered the idea of a full tile (300 x 300 or something like that) border with the remainder infill done as smaller mosiac type tiles? Mosiacs are much easier to get fall with. 
The vanity will needs lots of shopping around but I have seen some 1200 long in a dark timber finish (Can't remember if it was real timber though). I never plan a bathroom until I know what is available these days. 
The frameless shower screen as depicted in your original plan - I'd be surprised if you get out of that purchase for under $2000. Fully frameless uses 10 mm glass and wall brackets and hinged door - it looks very classy. There will also be a bit of chrome bar over the door for stability. 
However after much shopping around I have discovered that Stegbar make a SEMI FRAMELESS screen in 6mm glass (which come in around 50% of the price of fully frameless 10 mm) These screens have a metal channel running down the walls and across the top. It still has hinged doors and clear glass edges around the door. 
The reason I mention Stegbar is that they are (as far as I know) the only mob to use a low profile metal channel that isnt chunky or obtrusive like a lot of the aluminium channel a lot of places try and sell for a 6mm semiframeless.  It might be worth going into a stegbar show room and having a look. 
Chandeliers ??  HMM dunno about that LOL. I think some downlight type would give a nicer light 
Screeding - sorry your on your own heh heh! 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doog, 
I have already bought the floor tiles which are 200mm square. I will be using them on the hob as well. Have dispensed with the idea of tiling on the diagonal mainly due to the tiling on the hob will be on the square. Beaumonts suggested use 3mm gap on the hob same as the floor and line up the joins. If I thought it would look ok I would centre the tiles on the hob with 1.5mm joins and then offset the joins on the floor to suit the door opening and the wall and use the 3mm joins. Yes I agree not much will be seen under the WC and the Vanity and that is the place for the odd cuts. I intend to start the tiles from the brass angle to be placed across the door but think it would look better if the tiles were centred on the door opening so that the cut tiles around the jambs are the same on both sides of the opening. I have to consider the set down for the shower as well so that I do not get a small slice of tile at the brass angle or that may look odd as well. So many damn decisions on tiling. I delay every decision I can to prevent my brain overloading but getting very near to having to make a decision as walls will be finished as far as I can go soon. 
I will look at the Stegbar screens but I know they like to have the all tiling finished nice and level before they measure up so that decision has been given a lower priority. Same with the lighting I can delay decision on that for a while but agree the downlights seem better idea but thought I would wait until all the bits and pieces are in then decide the lighting. 
I am waiting on Seima to reopen after the break in Adelaide as I know they have some interesting 1200mm vanity tops in vitreous china. Maybe if I could get one at a reasonable price I would build or get built a wall hung cabinet in the style and colour I want. Again the plumbing will accept any unit and there is no rush on that decision either.

----------


## juan

I have started laying out the tiles for the floor and hob to see how I can do it the with the least pain.   
My plan is to start the full tile at the 50mm x 50mm brass angle which I wll set in the screed across the door opening and half way under the door. I can neatly fit 4 tiles in between the door jambs. As it works out I will then get a full tile all the way down the long side of the room on the door side. The room turns out to be perfectly square on that side (have not checked the other side but it looks like it will be good also. The negative is that when I reach the hob I will have a tile cut 60mm long at the hob wall. Does this sound ok or should I centre the tiles and have a 130mm cut tile at the door and the hob??
I think I will line up the joins on the hob and the floor meaning 3mm gaps on the hob and a cut tile about 140mm wide on the hob on the dunny side of the room and a full tile on the door side. I do not think this  diffence will be too noticeable  as I am sure  the women will load up the hob top ends with shampoo and the like.  The front face of the hob on the toilet side will be hidden in the large part by the toilet. 
I think tomorrow I may tile the top of the hob and the top row of the hob front. It would then be possible to finish the wall tiling around the hob and install the bath prior to screeding the floor. As stated previously I think I can get away with just butting the tiles on the leading edge of the hob rather than bevelling them or using edging strip. 
Any comments on the proposed layout would be appreciated. 
Cheers

----------


## Dirty Doogie

Geez you are lucky Juan LOL.  
Sometimes you just have to have a cut tile somewhere and I dont think that the cut down the far end  looks too bad. A mid to dark shade of grout and you won't notice any cuts. 
Hmm I dont know about the dark tile color though but anyway .... 
Just a quick point about your toilet - Is it one of the type that can be concreted down or bedded down??  Depending on the slope of your scree you will probably find that the front edge and or side of the pan needs to be packed up. 
Generally it looks better if the pan has a minimum of silicone around it and I like to lay out my tiles and mark where the tiles under the pan are going to be and level the scree across these tiles. 
Looking good so far 
Doog

----------


## juan

Hi Doog, 
I agree the floor tile colour is a little darker than I originally had in mind but the women chose. They first chose a plain chocolate brown tile which was much darker and would have shown every water mark. Luckily they compromised on a lighter shade with a mottled pattern which should be better in hiding water marks and be less severe overall on the eyes. It is a very bright bathroom having an east facing window and I think it will be ok. 
The toilet system is a Coroma Opal close coupled suite that will be bedded in mortar or whatever. I will take your advice and markout exactly where it will go and level the screed under those tiles. I was lucky with the water inlet for the toilet as it is exactly in the right place. I had thought it was too low until I did some level checking. 
Have sorted and mixed all the boxes of floor tiles as per instruction and selected about 20 tiles with heaps of overspray on one side that I can use for the hob top leading edge. I will have a box plus of floor tiles left over so worst case senario is I redo the front edge and fit an edge strip one day it they look to crappy or get damaged. 
I did a layout of the shower screen and vanity area and will comfortably get away with a 500mm deep vanity unit cabinet which is a relief as I can now chose the wall hung unit I like rather than a narrow cabinet semi recessed one which are a bit like rocking horse manure. 
Well I suppose I should go and tile the top of the hob as it will not do itself. 
Cheers

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## juan

Well 2 hours to fix about 16 tiles, I would never make living as a tiler. What a pain to line up the tiles on the top and face of the hob so as to get a possible acceptable external corner on the front of the hob. Hopefully it will get easier from here.

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## Dirty Doogie

Yeh it can sure take time - imagine if you didn"t have another bathroom lol

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## juan

Well I have got my levels calculated for the screed. I drilled a few holes in the slab, plugged them and used plasterboard screws as guides when I am screeding and to fine tune the levels (I hope). I can pull them out as I go or leave them there for that matter. 
Have laid out my heating cables roughly and run the system for a few minutes to check it is working. Will tidy it up a bit tomorrow.   
Looks ok so far. Got the whole kit for around $177(including shipping and insurance) from this guy on eBay  http://www.vodoley91.com/?nav=products
Great to deal with no matter how many stupid questions you ask he always get back to you asap. 
Maybe on the weekend I might mix up some mud and screed it. Everyone bar one keeps telling me plastering sand is ok for the screed. I will make a few more enquiries on that one tomorrow.

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## Dirty Doogie

plastering sand ? I've always used clean washed river sand for screes and ramping. plastering sand is really fine but should do the trick also.

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## juan

I took much advice on what sand to use and 9/10 said plastering sand or concrete sand were both ok. Technical rep for Brighton Cement said they do not recommend plastering sand as it has a little to much clay in it and may crack . He recommended concrete sand.  Thats what I used.  Purchased .25 ton of the stuff and 4 bags of Brighton cement and it worked out perfect almost for about 5.5m2 of floor area at about 35mm ave depth. 
Also purchased a litre of Kemcrete which I used to prime the floor before screeding and added to the water in the screed mix as a bonding agent.  
Mixed the screed as dry as was possible to work it and found the guide screws in the floor for the levels were fantastic. Have left them there and they will hold the screed to the slab (ha ha) if my work is shoddy. 
Tomorrow I should be able to give her a final rub down with a brick to knock of any high spots but I think it is ok as it is. Will chuck a sheet of plastic over it tomorrow but for now it is trying to rain and humidity is high so should not dry out to quick. 
Actually the task was very straight forward and went well - I had been worried for some time about doing this myself.  I will leave it for a few days then tile it.

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## Dirty Doogie

Sounds like it went petty straight forward. What sort of sand is "concrete sand" ? 
In the pic the scree surface looks very wet - was water coming to the surface?  This can cause problems with the additive.

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## juan

I think it is washed river sand. I spoke to 5 sand and metal suppliers and they all said this is what they supply the tilers for screeding.   
Mixed it in 4 small batches and a little moisture came to the surface in one batch as I had to work it quite a bit to get the levels. Moisture dissappeared very quickly.  Photo was taken 5 mins after last batch was laid.  I think the primer acts as a sealer as well and holds the moisture in the screed longer.
Hope she will be ok.

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## juan

The floor tiling is moving slowly towards that spot where the close coupled toilet suite (Caroma Opal) will reside.   
What is the recommended method of tiling and installing the WC. Should I just tile the whole floor and forget the dunny for now or should I leave a couple of tiles off under the toilet to let her grip the floor and be more stable?  Tiles are a bit smooth and was worried that the bog under the pan may not hold too well?? 
Any advice welcome 
cheers

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## Dirty Doogie

Does the pan have any holes for screw down fixing ?? it is usually the screws that hold pans down - and a mortar bedding in the top line jobs. 
Generally you layout and space the tiles, numbering them with a nikko or paint pen - position the toilet exactly and mark on the tiles the outer edge of the pan and also push the pen into the screw holes - anything so you get a mark where the screws go through.   
Then if you have a grout in only pan (rare) or wish to use grout as well as screws  - 
lift the pan away and make a paper template of the base wall thicknesses and mortar voids. Cut the template out and position on marked floor tiles - then mark the void spaces onto the tiles. 
You now have the option of either  
1) fixing pan first and cutting tiles around it (hard option if you dont know how to grind away tiles) ..  
or 2) fix tiles down after pre drilling an oversize hole for screws (make sure you measure the angle that the screws are set and drill a hole in tile wide enough) and chipping away tile for waste pipe. If you are going to mortar down as well - or only - you cut out the sections of tiles where the pan voids are located and fix tiles. 
Simple huh? 
Do you remember I suggested you set the tiles under the pan level ? or maybe 2 mm max fall?  You'll find out why quite soon LOL. 
Tip : if you are screwing down pan do not put drill bit into hole in pan to drill. make position on scree and drill without tile in position. Screwing down will puncture your waterproofing membrane. When fixing pan down - fill pilot hole with polyurethane sealnt - push in plastic expanding masonry grip - spread extruded polyurethane across base of hole in tile - then fix pan down.

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## juan

Thanks Doog, 
I have taken care to get the floor level where the pan will sit so that should not be an issue.
Found the technical sheet on the unit and it appears to indicate there are 2 fixing options - 
1. Bedding in 3:1 sand cement mix to a depth of 60mm  OR 
2. Screw fixing using a Caroma Screw fixing kit and acetic cured silicone sealant 
I will get the plumber back to fit the toilet and connect the water and waste outlet. Was just wondering if I should tile the floor under it first. Option 2 the screw fixing sounds like the go and I could take your advice and mark out and pre drill the fixing holes in the tiles before laying them. 
Both the waste pipe position and water supply inlet are correctly located so that is one less thing to worry about.

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## Dirty Doogie

Yeh put the tiles down first - unless you think you can do the cuts to fit around the pan.  drill the hole for screws in tiles before laying. Even with the greatest care tiles can still crack when you try and drill them.

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## Daren

tiles take ages to drill too. 
I was given a tip of using a grinder to jus take a little nip out of the tile where you intend to drill  - front and back. then drill the remainder. 
also remember that the holes for the toilet bowl are on an angle.

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## jags

hi juan 
use a template of  the toilet base  and tile under the toilets base  to say 2cm in so that when you lay the concrete to seat  the toilet it can bond to the scread and not the tiles i will try and get a pic of what the tiler did for me .
Regards rob

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## juan

Thanks Daren / Doog will give it a try. I have a special drill bit for drilling glass and tiles but have not tried it out yet. Got a heap of holes to drill in the wall tiles for the mirror, vanity lights and mounting the vanity on the wall etc.

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## LotteBum

I swear by using a bit of masking tape where you want to drill - it stops the drill bit from slipping around.

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## Daren

> I swear by using a bit of masking tape where you want to drill - it stops the drill bit from slipping around.

  nice

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## juan

Question? 
The bathroom walls and floor have been waterproofed. Joints sealed with silicone, reinforcing tape in the membrane etc. 
I am now at the stage of grouting the walls and the floor and wonder *can I use grout at the join where the floor tiles meet the wall tiles* and wall to hob or should I use silicone again to seal these joins. 
My vanity is being delivered next monday so I should have the toilet and vanity in by midweek. Just ordered the shower screen and that will take 4 weeks to be installed.

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## Pusser

You can use grout but it will crack and leak.  You need silicon.

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## juan

> You can use grout but it will crack and leak.  You need silicon.

  Thanks Pusser I  will take your advice and steer clear of grout at the critical joins between walls, floor and hob.  <o></o>   Cheers   :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## Pusser

> Thanks Pusser I will take your advice and steer clear of grout at the critical joins between walls, floor and hob. 
> ps 
> just noted your motto is that you never make mistakes so could not resist referirng to what Wikepedia has to say about silicon;  *<O></O>*    Cheers

  If you read it all then you will know I make mistakes - especially in tpying.  Good luck with your bathroom.

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## juan

Getting near to fitting the shower head fitting to the wall outlet and notice that the threaded nipple is about 5-8 degrees from 90 degrees at the angle to the face of the tiles. The plumber obviously fitted it slightly askew but I can blame no one but myself as I set it in before the plasterer did his bit. 
Wonder if I should take off the tile, dig out some render a bit and twist the pipe and nipple square, OR just hope the shower head fitting will accommodate the slight out of square and still fit flush to the tiles??? 
cheers

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## bricks

depending on how well the fiting is bedded in....  Get shower and have a look at the size of the cover flange for the fitting.if the hole in the tile isn't big enough chip it away ever so gently with a screw driver or small sharp chisel, only 1mm at a time with short sharp light tapping action.attach 15mm socket and 15mm running nipple (150 long) available at bunnies for 3 bucks, or anything else that will screw in there.Give this contraption a couple of light taps with a hammer to bring the fitting back to sqaure in the wallif it wont move easily, digg away a little mortar/ plaster that is on the side that wants to come away from the wall facecontinue tapping with hammerrepeat if nescessaryfill hole with some sort of bog product- silicone, mortart,plaster?????fit showereasy peesy.

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## juan

Thanks Bricks, I just had a look at it again and reckon I have room to dig out the render carefully without taking off the tile and follow your instructions to the letter. Will let u know how I go. 
Cheers

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## juan

I am nearing the installation of the toilet suite (Opal Smartflush) and have a question about whether it is recommended to silicone seal the pan to the wall tiles??   
I thought a bead of silicone right around the back of the pan to seal it to the wall would eliminate the chance of water getting down under the pan if the cistern were to spring a leak for whatever reason down the track. 
What do you think? 
Cheers

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## juan

Has anyone used the protective coating that can be purchased to seal / waterproof glass to supposedly keep the screen easier to clean?  http://www.enduroshield.com/products...for-glass.html 
The demo bottles they have in agents showrooms looks very promising but what is it like in practical situation? 
Cheers

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## Dirty Doogie

Hi Juan, Is the bathroom finished YET?  
I've been sick so havent been checking in much. 
Doog

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## juan

Hi Doogie 
Sorry to hear u have been unwell.  
Well the bathroom is not really finished yet. The shower screen has been a nightmare. They measured and cut one panel incorrectly and I asked that it be replaced which they are currently undertaking. They have been very good indeed about it but it is taking time to do.  
Bathroom is operational otherwise just chasing a few things to finish it off like another double towel rail, a wall mounted toilet brush(awaiting delivery), a small stainless steel pedal tidy bin, wall mounted soap dispensor and glass holder, wall mounted hair dryer holder and another electric toothbrush.  Have not decided about leadlight panels for the window yet. 
The underfloor heating looks like it is going to be a big winner from the testing I have done. I will wait until the weather chills out before giving a final verdict on that one though. Same with the heated mirror - need some cold weather to really test it out. 
IXL Silhoutte is great both in terms of heat and the exhaust fan.  
The Rinnai 26 plus HWS is just fantastic. I have started using this shower rather than the ensuite as I can control the temperature to perfection. 
Attached are photos I have just taken 5 minutes ago.  
I have put glad wrap on the glass screens to keep them cleaner as the small one will be chucked and the other one will be eventually treated with Enduro Shield which they kindly gave me.  
Whilst everyone has differing ideas on colour schemes the bathroom functions very well and is a massive improvement over what it was originally. 
All up with the new 50metre sewer run, new gas and water mains, Rinnai 26 plus HWS and bathroom fitout it will end up costing near $15,000 which was the original budget figure.  My labour would be at least that again but I chose to not count that. 
Cheers

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## madrat

Juan,
That looks bloody brilliant. Well done! You should be proud.
I have been following your thread, because we are yet to get to our bathrooms and was very keen to see how you went.
The colour scheme is almost exactly what we were looking at, so to see it all put together is great! Looks pretty stylish.
Once again, brilliant job!

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## Dirty Doogie

Hey thats Cool Juan! Looks great!  :2thumbsup:  
I like the wall hung timber vanity - ties in with the window frame and the darker tiles. Excellent - but I had bit of chuckle at all the electrical switches - you being a sparky and all LOL! 
Shower screens can often go horribly wrong during installation - it has happened to me nearly everytime - and all those little extra bits like shelves and holders take ages to happen. 
So now you've finished - What is the next project?? 
doog 
Ps did you ever try any of those self cleaning glass treatments ??  
My current project has a "polished" glass in it and the installer warned against using normal soap in the shower - but of course I did use normal soap and now its eaten the polish away GRR! - Not really noticeable until you come to clean it and then you find the glass doesnt sparkle as much as areas around.

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## juan

Thanks for the kind words Madrat and Doogie. 
I have the Enduro Shield treatment but will wait till all the glass panels are installed and the shower complete in about 3 weeks and seal it all in one go. That is why I covered the panel with glad wrap - to keep it clean for the installer to  silicone seal it and also to make the application of the Enduro Shield treatment easier. 
Yeah there are 3 double power points in the bathroom but there are hair dryers, electric toothbrush, heated towel rails which will use 3 GPOs permanently.  
Next project will be upgrading the ensuite. Everything in same locations just retile and some new fittings. 
Cheers

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## madrat

> Next project will be upgrading the ensuite. Everything in same locations just retile and some new fittings. 
> Cheers

  
Any chance you will be posting 'as you go pictures' with the ensuite?
Definitely interested in that one too (we too have 'ensuite' on our to do list).  :2thumbsup:

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## wonderplumb

Well done juan, looks the goods mate.

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## juan

Did not plan to publish the ensuite reno Madrat but I will take some pics and post them some time. Not sure when I will get started but it will not be until all the fiddly bits are 100% complete on this one. It is too easy to end up with a series of unfinished symphonies. 
cheers

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## zacnelson

Juan, thanks for sharing the latest updated pictures.  I too have been keenly following your progress for months and was blown away by the finished job.  I particularly like the choice of vanity unit; I love the large profile on the white basin/benchtop part. 
I'm amazed that the whole thing cost only $15k.  I'm assuming this also includes the cost of the brickwork, the floor slab, rendering, plastering etc also.  Do you or anyone else have any idea what the whole thing would have cost if you did none of it yourself?  I imagine over $50k?   
Did you install the shower screen yourself?  How much did it cost?  I recently installed a 1200mm x 1000mm frameless 10mm shower screen in my bathroom (pics will be up in a week or two) and it was very very difficult; the largest piece of glass (1200mm x 2100mm) weighed over 100kg!  I had to get 2 friends to help me lift it.  Making all the fine adjustments to get all the pieces perfectly level with each other and the gaps perfect was a hell of a job.

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## juan

Hi Zac 
I am not installing the shower screen myself but am getting it done through a friend of a friend. I also had assistance with plumbing and a plasterer who charged me $500 to plaster inside and also outside of window. 
This was a significant project and apart from the above, I did all the work myself which kept costs low. In reality I suspect most people would not want 6 months of major disruption and may not have the time to do all the work themselves. Half the work is chasing cheap prices on things and asking for help on this forum. The help I received from stalwarts like Doogie, Bricks, Mid C, Wonderplumb and many others was incredible and I thank them for it.  
I suspect had I shopped around I would have paid around $45K to have it all done by professionals. It certainly would have been less painful but I do not think I would have got a better job done. 
Cheers

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## patty

:2thumbsup: Absolutley brilliant Juan good job !!

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## Border boy

Great job Juan,
I have been a silent follower of this great thread for some time now. I did a bathroom reno at our place about 18 months ago. Gained a heap of how to info from these forums. My reno didn't involve the structural stuff that yours has, but it did involve gutting, resheeting, waterproofing,tiling, instalation of frameless shower screen which I did & outsourced sparky & plumber. I have to compliment you on the style that you have gone for - see pic.
Cheers & enjoy your new room.

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## juan

A beautiful job you have done there Border Boy. A lot of similarities in colours and fittings to ours.  Did you seal the glass panels on the shower?  Are they difficult to keep clean? 
Cheers

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## Border boy

Thanks Juan,
yes, very similar. By sealing do you mean where the glass joins the floor & walls? I ran a bead of neutral cure clear silicone along these joins after masking with some tape. The shower isn't hard to keep clean using one of the many glass cleaning products on the market.
Cheers.

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## juan

I had done some reading about this product  http://www.enduroshield.com/products...for-glass.html  and I have been given a kit to try out. It seals the glass only although they have a product for tiles as well.  The installer will seal the glass to the tiles when the incorrectly cut panel is replaced. 
Apparently glass has a semi porous surface which is why the water and gunge adheres to the glass. This invisible treatment seals the pores and the water runs off leaving just a few beads thus eliminating 90% of the cleaning. It is just rubbed onto the inside of the shower screen glass.  They claim it lasts up to 10 years before you recoat it.  I will try it out and give some feedback later. 
It seems you had a window above the old sink/vanity unit. Did you close it over? as I can not see it in the renovation photo. I reckon a large Velux Electric Skylight in your bathroom would look a $1M. I had originally planned to put one in then changed my mind and moved the window.  http://www.velux.com.au/inspiration/...oom/bathrooms/ 
cheers

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## Border boy

Hi Juan,
sounds like an interesting product - look forward to your feedback. Yes I closed the window, it used to look out onto a back veranda, which was enclosed by previous owners - so no light/ view at all. Those skylights do look good - maybe a future project.
Cheers.

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## juan

Just about all wrapped up with this marathon project. The shower screen has finally been installed after a couple of serious hiccups with measurements. No profit for them in this job for sure. 
I have treated the shower screen glass with Enduro Shield and water runs off it like a duck's back.   
cheers

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## jags

Hi Juan
just wanted to say thanks for all the advice it's been a great thread and the end result looks a million dollars and all for around $15 ,000 that's hell cheap even with you doing the work and without  all the fruit in there that shower screen looks hot ,how thick is it ? And have you start to use the floor heating to keep you coffee warm in the morning ?
Also i think i have used a similar style vanity the deep draw are so much better than shallow ones.
i think i'm  going to go with the  Rinni 26 soon the museun have been calling and they want my old system for display purposes   
If the there was an award for best bathroom reno i think you would win no question ....congrats 
Rob

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## juan

Thanks for the kind words Jags. 
No have not started using the underfloor heating which is less than 600 watts if my memory serves me correctly.  I have done testing on it and it works great but it has not been cold enough here yet to really warrant switching it to automatic program. I reckon about end of May will be time to switch it on. 
Very happy with the vanity unit and hanging them on the wall is the way to go. It makes cleaning the bathroom floor a 30 second job. 
The glass screen is 10mm tempered glass and I opted for the cheaper standard glass rather than the iron free glass which reduces colour distortion. Happy with the decision.  
 Have treated the glass with Enduro-Shield and very happy with the result. Have a squeegee hanging in the shower and the last one to shower takes 20 seconds to quickly wipe down the inside of the panels and it always looks crystal clean. 
You are making the right choice with the Rinnai 26. It is awesome. My gas bill has more than halved and the hot water delivery is unbeatable.  Get the installer to set it up to deliver 60 degree water (just move a jumper connection on a couple of pins). You will need the tempering valve for the bathroom but you will have steaming hot water in the kitchen. 
cheers

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## SWMBO

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but my husband is designing our  bathroom makeover and we thought underfloor heating seemed like a good idea.
I notice the OP put in underfloor heating and would like some feedback from anyone about it. 
Lisa

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## denaria

Hi there, Lisa, welcome to the forum, not that I can help any being in the tropics, I'd prefer underfloor cooling, but can understand your wants down there - I'm sure someone will give you feedback.   :Smilie:

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## juan

> Sorry to resurrect an old thread but my husband is designing our  bathroom makeover and we thought underfloor heating seemed like a good idea.
> I notice the OP put in underfloor heating and would like some feedback from anyone about it. 
> Lisa

  Hi Lisa 
Welcome to the site and I hope your bathroom makeover goes well. 
With regard to underfloor heating I must be honest and say we have not turned it on for 2 years. It does work well if you let it heat up for about 3 hours before you get up in the morning.
We just find it unnecessary. Placing a good bath mat on the tiles and the 4 x heat lamps are adequate for the short amount of time we spend in the bathroom.  Frankly I would not bother installing it.  I think what would be nice and I may yet put one in, is a cheap 1HP reverse cycle slit system.  I would place it at the end of the bath so if anyone wants to have a nice long bath in either winter or summer they can feel cozy. It is something you could program to come on 10mins before you get up in the morning and the bathroom would be nice and warm. 
The other item I find we do not turn on is the heated towel rail.  Rail is fine but just never turn it on these days. 
Sorry to be negative on the resistive heating but that is the reality for us.

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