# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Pre-Waterproofing Issues - (Could really use some advice).

## RDR

Hi all. 
I am currently renovating my bathroom and am about to start the waterproofing process in the shower. 
I managed to get the order of application mixed up when it came to priming and applying the bond-breaker to the villaboard edges/corners. 
Currently I have applied sicaflex to the single vertical corner and to the bottom gaps (between floor and villaboard) on both walls. I stopped at this point as I found out I was meant to prime first. 
1.  Can I just prime over the sicaflex and then use a waterproofing tape over the top ? I assume the primer is not really a membrane, and therefore won't break under movement? 
Or am I just thoroughly out of my depth and need to remove the sicaflex ? 
2. When applying water proofing tape (I have Dunlop Express Wet Area Tape) to corners, joins etc, I assume the tape is meant to stick to everything underneath it (ie press it down hard) ? 
For this job I will be using "Dunlop Primer and Additive", and "Dunlop Express Wet Area Waterproofing". 
Hope I managed to convey that all well enough to be understood, if it is not already obvious renovating is not really in my skillset  :Smilie:  If you need more info please let me know. 
I greatly appreciate any advice/help forthcoming. 
Thanks for reading  :Smilie:

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## Oldsaltoz

Hi RDR. If the area was clean and the sealant has good contact you should have no problems. If you are concerned, you just prime and go over the original joint. the tape only needs enough pressure to make it stick, pressing too hard may cause movement in other joints that will be covered with the membrane later. 
Good luck and fair winds.  :Smilie:

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## RDR

> Hi RDR. If the area was clean and the sealant has good contact you should have no problems. If you are concerned, you just prime and go over the original joint. the tape only needs enough pressure to make it stick, pressing too hard may cause movement in other joints that will be covered with the membrane later. 
> Good luck and fair winds.

   Thankyou for this. 
So just so I have this absolutely clear : 
I can prime over the sikaflex AND when applying the tape after priming, I press it down (not to firmly) across both villaboard sheets and the sikaflex (ie no gap underneath) ?  
BTW The area will be cleaned with sugar soap first, and the sealant has been generously applied and has good contact. 
Thanks again for your reply/help, I do appreciate it.

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## Oldsaltoz

You r welcome. One more tip. Make sure the gap between the wall and floor tiles is filled with a sealant, not grout. This allows for movement in the floor tiles when they heat up with hot water hitting them. 
Good luck and fair winds.  :Smilie:

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## RDR

Thankyou for this, and yes that is what I have done. Appreciate the heads up. Am currently wrestling with the hob construction as we speak. Thanks again.

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## RDR

I have another couple of questions, if I may ? 
1. I have finished the hob construction and am wondering if the leftover glue on the outside of the hob (many small smears here and there, maybe 1mm thick) can be primed over (ready for waterproofing) or whether I need to remove these (I hope not) ?  
2. Can waterproofing be done in "installments" ? By this I mean can I waterproof one section of the bathroom 1 day (say the shower base) and then do the walls another ? (Assume The joins have been sealed and taped in advance, and I would apply both coats of waterproofing to each section on the same daye) ? 
BTW : The glue I used to "fix" the hob was novaflex tile adhesive and I am using Dunlop priming, tape and waterproofing products. 
Thanks in advance.

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## Oldsaltoz

> I have another couple of questions, if I may? 
> 1. I have finished the hob construction and am wondering if the leftover glue on the outside of the hob (many small smears here and there, maybe 1mm thick) can be primed over (ready for waterproofing) or whether I need to remove these (I hope not)?  
> 2. Can waterproofing be done in "installments"? By this I mean can I waterproof one section of the bathroom 1 day (say the shower base) and then do the walls another? (Assume The joints have been sealed and taped in advance, and I would apply both coats of waterproofing to each section on the same day) ? 
> BTW: The glue I used to "fix" the hob was nova-flex tile adhesive and I am using Dunlop priming, tape and waterproofing products. 
> Thanks in advance.

   1. Pitty you finished the hob, I would have advised an angle. 2. Yes, the primer should stick without any problem's. And yes you can do any area at any time, though it will take longer with the extra mixing and clean up. Hobs are 'normally' stuck down with a sealant like Sikaflex 11FC (Fast cure) this also helps to prevent water passing under the hob. I would add a bead of sealant to both sides of that joint to make sure water can not get under the hob. 
Good luck and fair winds.  :Smilie: .

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## RDR

> 1. Pitty you finished the hob, I would have advised an angle. 2. Yes, the primer should stick without any problem's. And yes you can do any area at any time, though it will take longer with the extra mixing and clean up. Hobs are 'normally' stuck down with a sealant like Sikaflex 11FC (Fast cure) this also helps to prevent water passing under the hob. I would add a bead of sealant to both sides of that joint to make sure water can not get under the hob. 
> Good luck and fair winds. .

   Thanks for the reply ! 
1. I looked at the angles but eventually went with the hob, purely because I thought I would have less chance of making a mess of  it. Probably should have revisited it. Thanks for the heads up regardless. 
2. This is good, thanks. I will be using the sika flex around the edges just to make sure, taping it aswell, same as the walls. I went with tile glue instead of sika flex as that is what the "howto" videos from "national tiles, bunnings, etc" suggested. Probably should have come to these forums earlier  :Smilie:   
I didn't cement myself to the hob, so my luck is holding. 
Thanks again for the speedy reply.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Thanks for the reply ! 
> 1. I looked at the angles but eventually went with the hob, purely because I thought I would have less chance of making a mess of it. Probably should have revisited it. Thanks for the heads up regardless. 
> 2. This is good, thanks. I will be using the sika flex around the edges just to make sure, taping it aswell, same as the walls. I went with tile glue instead of sika flex as that is what the "howto" videos from "national tiles, bunnings, etc" suggested. Probably should have come to these forums earlier   
> I didn't cement myself to the hob, so my luck is holding. 
> Thanks again for the speedy reply.

  Glad I could help.   :Smilie:

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## RDR

Hi again 
I was wondering if there is a waste/grate system that you would recommend for my shower ? From reading some of your old posts it seems I do not require a puddle flange (as it is ground floor, concrete base), but I am a little confused with how to connect the waste hole (in the concrete slab) to the grate (at the top of the screed) ? Is it just with a bit of PVC, or is there a better system ? If it matters, I essentially just want to connect to a square drain at the top, nothing fancy. 
The waterproofing is not done yet so I am not constrained by anything (in case this is an issue).  
Thanks for any help you can provide.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hi again 
> I was wondering if there is a waste/grate system that you would recommend for my shower? From reading some of your old posts it seems I do not require a puddle flange (as it is ground floor, concrete base), but I am a little confused with how to connect the waste hole (in the concrete slab) to the grate (at the top of the screed)? Is it just with a bit of PVC, or is there a better system? If it matters, I essentially just want to connect to a square drain at the top, nothing fancy. 
> The waterproofing is not done yet so I am not constrained by anything (in case this is an issue).  
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

  The Ground floor will need a puddle flange to meet the current rules. I use the Wonder cap brand. to install one you need to grind about 3 to 5mm off around the waste pipe. Then apply some Sikaflex 11FC around the waste pipe, Insert the flange and lightly tap it home then apply more sealant around the edges. Let this cure and your done. The cap comes with an adaptor for the grate height adjustment. Note: the device will allow water to drain from under the tiles so DO NOT seal around the sliding section. Go to the Wonder cap internet site for full information. 
A standard 50mm square grate is simple to install and will drop into the puddle flanges adjustable height fitting.  https://www.wondercap.com.au/  Good luck and fair winds.

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## RDR

> The Ground floor will need a puddle flange to meet the current rules. I use the Wonder cap brand. to install one you need to grind about 3 to 5mm off around the waste pipe. Then apply some Sikaflex 11FC around the waste pipe, Insert the flange and lightly tap it home then apply more sealant around the edges. Let this cure and your done. The cap comes with an adaptor for the grate height adjustment. Note: the device will allow water to drain from under the tiles so DO NOT seal around the sliding section. Go to the Wonder cap internet site for full information. 
> A standard 50mm square grate is simple to install and will drop into the puddle flanges adjustable height fitting.  https://www.wondercap.com.au/  Good luck and fair winds.

  Sorry I got myself horribly confused, thanks for this information it really helps, is exactly what I was looking for.  Going on a wondercap hunt this afternoon. 
Thanks again.

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## RDR

> The Ground floor will need a puddle flange to meet the current rules. I use the Wonder cap brand. to install one you need to grind about 3 to 5mm off around the waste pipe. Then apply some Sikaflex 11FC around the waste pipe, Insert the flange and lightly tap it home then apply more sealant around the edges. Let this cure and your done. The cap comes with an adaptor for the grate height adjustment. Note: the device will allow water to drain from under the tiles so DO NOT seal around the sliding section. Go to the Wonder cap internet site for full information. 
> A standard 50mm square grate is simple to install and will drop into the puddle flanges adjustable height fitting.  https://www.wondercap.com.au/  Good luck and fair winds.

   Hey OldSaltOz 
I have got some more time to work on the bathroom. I have sourced a wondercap retro puddle flange 80 to 100mm. Went with the retro so I didn't have to do more then just grind the 3-5mm you mentioned. 
May I ask, does it matter if the recess being grinded is slightly deeper then it needs to be? In other words how close to flush does the puddle flange need to be ? (I will ensure it does not sit above the recess lip).  
BTW : From reading the wondercap pdf, it says flush with the floor, it does not say how far out this can be. 
EDITED - It seems my 80mm drainage pipe is at a slight angle, so the wondercap won't fit entirely in, also I suspect it will not sit flat once recessed. Do you think it would be ok to use a 50mm wondercap and allow it to sit within the 80 mm pipe at an angle, thus keeping the top flat ? Or will this engender more problems ? Really not sure what else to do otherwise.  
Hope you can help. 
Thanks

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hey OldSaltOz 
> I have got some more time to work on the bathroom. I have sourced a wondercap retro puddle flange 80 to 100mm. Went with the retro so I didn't have to do more than just grind the 3-5mm you mentioned. 
> May I ask, does it matter if the recess being ground is slightly deeper than it needs to be? In other words, how close to flush does the puddle flange need to be? (I will ensure it does not sit above the recessed lip).  
> BTW: From reading the wondercap pdf, it says flush with the floor, it does not say how far out this can be. 
> EDITED - It seems my 80mm drainage pipe is at a slight angle, so the wonder cap won't fit entirely in, also I suspect it will not sit flat once recessed. Do you think it would be ok to use a 50mm Wondercap and allow it to sit within the 80 mm pipe at an angle, thus keeping the top flat? Or will this engender more problems? Really not sure what else to do otherwise. 
> Hope you can help. 
> Thanks

  As long as the 50mm Wondercap is secure and flat you should have no problems. Also, make sure the shower base waterproofing membrane extends down over the flange.  
Good luck and fair winds.

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## RDR

> As long as the 50mm Wondercap is secure and flat you should have no problems. Also, make sure the shower base waterproofing membrane extends down over the flange.  
> Good luck and fair winds.

  That is a relief, thanks for this.  
I will source the new Wondercap and try again on Thursday, and I will make sure the waterproofing extends as per your post. 
I really appreciate all the time and advice you have provided. 
Thanks again.

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## Oldsaltoz

Your Welcome.

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## RDR

Hello again Oldsaltoz 
Have a few days this week to work on my bathroom, and from my perspective I have good and bad news. 
1. The good : The 50mm wondercap puddle flange, worked fine. It now sits at an angle within the 80mm pipe, and is flush at the top with the floor. Very happy it worked out. 
2. The bad : When I originally laid the hob (hebal) one side ended up with a "bow" in it where the hebal bricks met. This has worried me for a while now, and I can't really see any way of fixing it other than just, taking it up, and starting again. So before I do I thought I would revisit your original suggestion of using a waterstop angle. 
I am a little "all at sea" on this one, so please forgive my naivety. 
Can you use a waterstop angle to create a "stepped up" shower design ? In other words where the bathroom floor is lower than the shower (after installing the angle and screed, as they both begin at the same level to begin with). The AS3740-2010 seems to only show using a hobless design (both sides of the shower more or less level), or a "stepped down" design where the bathroom floor is higher than the shower screed. Neither the hobless or the "stepped down" design can be easily done with my setup, without significant "jackhammering", and pretty much being more involved than just laying and tiling a hob. 
I can't really see how a stepped up design would work, given I am not sure where the shower screen would sit. I guess I probably will have to use a hob, but in case I am missing something I would appreciate your appraisal and any advice you can give. 
Thanks in advance, hope all is well in your world.

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## Oldsaltoz

I love a challenge, advising you how to build a shower with a screen is just that. The simple method. Start by measuring the screen you plan on fitting. note that the shower angle must fit the outside edge of the installed screen but not a tight fit, allow an extra couple of mm.  Now you know the size, simply get hold of some 50 by 50mm aluminum angle, preferably anodized, and mark the measurement of the short (door) entry width on the bottom of the angle and cut a "V" at 90+ so you can bend and fold it at right angles. Now cut the remaining leg the same length as the long wall side. adding the 2mm. Stick this to the concrete floor with some Sikaflex 11FC, pressing it down firmly and let it cure for 10 to 15 minutes (The FC stands for Fast Cure). Double you measurements at this stage just to be sure. 
Now apply more sealant over the inside of the angle to cover the upstand inside and the flat bottom section with a taper onto the floor to the edge and let this cure. 
Seal all joints in the shower walls and coat all nail heads and seal tap and shower outlet penetrations. 
Waterproof the shower wall joints, the whole base and over the puddle flange. including bond breakers to the walls. 
With a 50mm shower angle, the angle will about 32 mm above the tile level outside the shower. so the fall on the tiles inside the shower will be minimal, and no leveling compound needed, just a little more tile glue. You need to keep the top of the angle above the tiles so it can contain the water within the shower. The shower screen will sit Inside the angle with a 2 mm gap to the edge of the angle. So after securing the shower screens to the walls, simply seal only the OUTSIDE of the screens to the walls and along the gap between the shower and the angle. 
Tiling tip: Do the floor tiled first, leaving a small gap about the thickness of the wall tile excluding glue. When the floor is laid, clean out the gap around the outer tiles and fill it with Sikaflex 11FC, this will allow for any tile expansion when they get heated by hot water and prevent dropped wall tile glue locking them tight. The bottom tile will need cutting to get a neet fit across any fall in the base tiles, start the wall tiles about 2/3ds  or 3/4 of a tile above the base (using a Leveled baton) secured to the shower wall/s. then cut the bottom tile to fit after the wall tiles have cured. 
Job Done. 
Good luck and fair winds. :Smilie:

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