# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Puddle flange or not??

## john777

Hi,
I have 2nd floor bathroom reno where we have 19mm cement sheeting glued and screwed onto hardwood joists......next we plan to get waterproofing, cement screed and floor tiling done 
Question:
1. how do I connect the floor waste grate through the flloor?.......some tilers have advised not to worry about using a puddle flange under the cement screed where I was intending to cut a hole in cement floor sheet......their advice is to just run 100mm diameter pvc pipe up through the cement floor sheet and cement screed (approx. 20-30mm) and then cut pvc pipe cut flush with top of screed. The waterproof membrane is then applied over the top of the cement screed and down approx. 30mm into the vertical face of the drain pipe, complete tiling then fix decorative floor grate to finish off........am I best off not using a puddle flange?.......tilers say puddle flange is used to cover square holes cut into a 19mm cement floor sheet to take a 100mm dia round pvc pipe.......I intend to cut a round hole for pipe 
2. Also one tiler recomended I use a polyurethane based waterproof coating first onto the 19mm cement floor sheets, then lay plastic sheet over to create a slip joint incase of floor movement, then lay a cement screed over the top including chicken wire as reinforcement, then coat with a water based acrylic waterproof membrane, then finish off with tiles........can anyone recomend this method? 
cheers :Blush7:

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## intertd6

You need to look for another tiler who knows their stuff as these blokes have not given you a correct answer yet. You need the leak control flanges at all floor penetrations, waterproof membrane to floor & walls where required & concrete screed falling to wastes.
regards inter

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## Cubbie

I just got some similar advice.  Just cut the floor waste off at the level of the cement sheeting then waterproof over and down the waste.  I am installing a shower grate. 
A) is this valid
B) i would assume the waterproofing goes on before the screed

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## ringtail

All the bathrooms that Ive been involved with in the past have used puddleflanges. The plumber will cut the hole and stick the waste pipe through and the waterproofer will cut the pipe off and install the puddle flange. Calling oldsaltz.

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## Oldsaltoz

Puddle flanges are only required on upper floors without a monolith slab, an upper floor includes most timber floors or homes built with the floor above ground, like the low set Queenslanders. 
The standard calls for puddle flanges, consider the Aus standards as a starting point, or the minimum needed, it's not there to like difficult but to prevent failures. 
Not fitting a flange on a cement sheet floor can mean you only have a few mm to secure the drain or waste pipe, it's a disaster waiting to happen. 
Installing a puddle flange takes only minutes and is not expensive. However, most puddle flanges are not installed correctly, they must be flush, or below the sheet when installed. 
On a timber floor with tile underlay, the simple method is to cut a hole in the tile underlay sheet about 20 mm larger than the outer edge of the flange and drop it into the hole, the 6 mm or so of the underlay sheet will mean the edge of the flange is below the sheeting. 
If installing into Fibre Cement sheeting, the flange should be dropped in and the outer edge marked then a cup grinder used to create a depression for the flange, again the object is to ensure the flange is level or lower than the surrounding the floor. 
he reason behind all this to ensure no moisture is trapped, the water will not drain up hill over the flange. 
If you have ever walked into a bathroom and smelt mould but can see none, there is a good chance the screed in the shower is black with mould because it can not fully drain. 
Hope this helps. 
Sorry for posting so late in the day, Just finished a huge new home with Fibre cement sheet floors, the bathroom was as big as our bedroom and the laundry about the size of our lounge, plus an ensuite, separate toilet and a separate vanity area, all full floor sealed. No wonder I'm stuffed it was a 2 hour drive as well. 
Good luck. :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Bloody obese houses eh mate. lol

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