# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  BlueGEN - Is this the next big thing?

## Belair_Boy

Saw this on tv the other night and was intrigued, so looked it up on the net.  BlueGen  What is BlueGEN? | Harvey Norman Solar 
Looks like it is in its infancy here in Australia but I think it has a lot of promise.
With the acceptance of a feed in tariff and reduction in cost through greater numbers it has good benefits over solar. 
What do the rest of you think?

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## stevoh741

interesting....

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## Uncle Bob

While Bluegen is interesting, LENR has the possibility to be world changing. Google LENR for details. I find this site E-Cat World | Following the Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Revolution covers LENR quite well with daily tidbits.   

> For those new to the LENR scene, most technologies focus on combining  Hydrogen with Nickel or another element. The elements are combined using  an unknown catalyst  the secret ingredient. The result of combining  the elements is a new element, generally Copper. The production process  puts off excess heat which can be used to boil water or even produce  electricity. 
> Lifted from LENR Finally Getting Traction

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## goldie1

> interesting....

   x 2

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## Bloss

Probably should be in the The DEBATE & TECHNICAL DISCUSSION AREA sub-forum. Been around for a few years and being sold commercially. Honda has been the leader in this field for more than 15 years Honda Worldwide | Environment | Home Energy Station, but this Aussie company is doing well with commercial sales and production in the EU. But this is an energy efficiency option using gas so a smarter way to use fossil fuels (could use biogas too), but not a renewable technology. But at efficiencies of more than 85% a really valuable technology. Not even close to being viable for household use yet, but plenty of commercial uses that make sense. 
As to LREN, Uncle Bob, mate, tell 'em their dreamin'. This is pop-science rubbish and rehash from the cold-fusion crowd - a new name doesn't make it any more likely. There is no agreed theoretical model that suggests it might work and there has never been an experiment done on it that has been able to be replicated. Never say never, but that one's a long, long way off.

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## Uncle Bob

^ Bloss, I'm really hoping you're wrong and indeed that may be the case as school kids have proved this actually indeed works. 
Brillouin Energy has a theory on how they believe it works. May I (respectfully) suggest you re-research what's actually now taking place in this field.  
(Flat earth and us being the centre of the universe springs to mind  :Wink:  )

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## Belair_Boy

> Probably should be in the The DEBATE & TECHNICAL DISCUSSION AREA sub-forum.

  In the light of a new day and after some sleep, I agree. Moderators please feel free to move. :Smilie:

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## Bloss

> ^ Bloss, I'm really hoping you're wrong and indeed that may be the case as school kids have proved this actually indeed works. 
> Brillouin Energy has a theory on how they believe it works. May I (respectfully) suggest you re-research what's actually now taking place in this field.  
> (Flat earth and us being the centre of the universe springs to mind  )

  If you believe what I've underlined I am glad the tooth fairy and Father Xmas are still visiting you too . . .  :Redface:  
To humour you I went to the Brillouin Energy site - sorry mate, but that's a crock  - fails the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics at the very least. This is a perpetual motion machine fraud. 
As it happens I know exactly what research is being done in this field and in renewable energy and energy resources generally (as I get older I know how little there is I know and it'll never be enough, but I know more than most about most things, and on renewable energy heaps more - no brag, just fact . . . ). As you can see modesty is one of my greater virtues . . .  :Wink:  
Unless you ascribe the lack of progress to conspiracy theories of some sort or another (and I don't) then if this was a goer it'd be here now - at the very least because of huge amounts of money to be made. 
BTW - I don't engage in the Discussions and Debate area and won't be posting more on this one. Life's too short . . .

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## Uncle Bob

> BTW - I don't engage in the Discussions and Debate area and won't be posting more on this one. Life's too short . . .

  Fair enough Bloss  :Smilie:  I avoid political fights, I mean discussion mostly too.  :Wink:  
Anyway, I can understand why people are sceptical of LENR, but I'm pretty convinced this tech is real and time will tell.

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## johnc

> Saw this on tv the other night and was intrigued, so looked it up on the net.  BlueGen  What is BlueGEN? | Harvey Norman Solar 
> Looks like it is in its infancy here in Australia but I think it has a lot of promise.
> With the acceptance of a feed in tariff and reduction in cost through greater numbers it has good benefits over solar. 
> What do the rest of you think?

  This is a big development in efficiency, not only does it convert gas into electricity it produces a bi product (hot water) certainly its application in colder climates would provide a boost to water heater units (radiators) as well as domestic hot water for shower etc. At this stage the pricing point is to high for wide spread acceptance but is being trialled in Europe with a number of units sold. If accepted for subsidies over there it should be able to reduce the cost per unit through volume efficiencies and potentially become a good seller here. Because of its high efficiency and the fact it runs 24/7 this is actually an alternative for constant base load power using natural gas rather than coal. So lower CO2 emmissions, greater efficiency, better dispersal across the grid, it has the potential of being a winner through ceramic fuel cell technology developed here in Oz.     
It is listed on the ASX but is selling well under its issue price so it is safe to say it is seen as a speculative play for investors and runs the risk of being overtaken by other emerging technologies, all the same it is one to watch with interest.

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## plum

Don't know anything about BlueGen, but from what I've read from the link provided, using the equivalent of 12mj/hr is stuff all, be surprised if that amount could seriously provide heating, hot water and light my christmas tree in my humble abode.... But if it does bring it on.

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## Master Splinter

On that LENR site there's a classic cop out as to why it is not being rapidly scaled up - "Across the board, all the major players express deep frustration with the U.S. Patent Office for rejecting any patents relating to LENR." 
The US Patent Office doesn't even reject patent applications for perpetual motion machines, it just states that a working model must be provided: "With the exception of cases involving perpetual motion, a model is not ordinarily required by the Office to demonstrate the operability of a device. If operability of a device is questioned, the applicant must establish it to the satisfaction of the examiner, but he or she may choose his or her own way of so doing."

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## johnc

> Don't know anything about BlueGen, but from what I've read from the link provided, using the equivalent of 12mj/hr is stuff all, be surprised if that amount could seriously provide heating, hot water and light my christmas tree in my humble abode.... But if it does bring it on.

  The hot water biproduct will provide all normal household hotwater, and about 15000kw of electricity per year. That must be one hell-of-a christmas tree, the average Australian household is supposed to use about 7500kw per year. It has the capacity to *supplement* hot water radiators, especially if you had solar hot water installed already. However the cost of the unit I think is around $40,000 (but will come down over time), that at the moment is the deal breaker. The advantage of the fuel cell technology is the high conversion rate of gas to electricity. Remember it doesn't stop operating when the wind stops or it gets dark, it's not a renewable, it is simply a more efficient method of extracting power from fossil fuels. 
The main purchaser at the moment is not households but groups assessing it's realibilty and viabilty for large scale purchases.

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## Swerve

I looked it up 6 months ago, was like $30-40k

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## barney118

eats solar for dead 60% efficiency , In Europe (they heavily subsidies it), watch the gas prices increase, followed by electricity as everyone would jump ship. 
Ceramic fuel cells.

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