# Forum Home Renovation Paving  how much sand for paving

## mordrax

I'm thinking of paving roughly a 4x10m section of the back with an existing patio.
How much sand should I put on the soil after digging up the grass? 
Atm, I'm thinking 5-10cm, so that would be 2-4 cubic meters. And I've read that the sand differs in weight, 0.8-1.4 tonne per cubic meter? So I'd be looking between 1.6 to 5.6 tonnes of sand right? 
I haven't decided on the pavers, but it would most likely be used brick/concrete type pavers. Not sure if this makes a difference to the thickness of the sand.

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## Pulse

Paving base course depends on local availability, I'd use limestone roadbase 5cm thick and then 2-3 cm of crusher dust or coarse river sand. 
Pulse

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## PlatypusGardens

I recommend using crusherdust (or roadbase) instead of sand.
Easier to work with and compacts better. 
A minimum of 50mm crusherdust base, spread it out, level it with a rake then screed it.
Put the hose on to it gently, on the spray setting rather than jet, and go over it evenly until the water *just* pools on top of it.
Leave it for 5-10 min (have a beer) then go over it with a plate compactor.
Make sure you go over everything 3 times and that is your base done.
At this point it should be like walking on concrete. 
Then screed 10-20mm sand on top of that, lay your pavers, concrete the edges, brush some fine dry sand over the area, wrap a bit of carpet around the whacker and go over it again.
Going over it at the end settles the pavers in to the sand and they'll never move.     :Smilie:

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## mordrax

Thanks for the replies, I had been on the wrong path again with the sand idea... 
Just some more questions: 
Does watering the crusher dust just cause it to compact better and not cement it?
Can I use household alternatives to a plate compactor? Previously, I just did a small footpath with sand alone, actually I don't even think i compacted it, just walked over the pavers afterwards. I wasn't aware of having to put in a base. Ops!   

> At this point it should be like walking on concrete.

   What is the difference of doing this vs actually using concrete for the base? 
My land moves quite a bit, as evidenced by the varying sizes of cracks around the house and there is a large jacaranda right next to the area i'm paving, would the base stop the roots from breaking up the pavers? 
Lastly, can I use recycled crusher dust? found some for $40-70/tonne.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Does watering the crusher dust just cause it to compact better and not cement it?

  
Yes.       

> Can I use household alternatives to a plate compactor?

  Not unless you have something that weighs 80-90kgs and vibrates heavily....
Compacting the base before paving is a must if you want it to last.
Been a while since I hired one as I have my own but ring your local tool hire shop and see what they cost for the day.
I'm guessing around $50-60.        

> What is the difference of doing this vs actually using concrete for the base?

  
Well for starters the cost and labour involved.
If you concrete it you'll have to grout the gaps to stop water getting in and washing the sand out.
If the concrete cracks and moves your pavers will too.
And you still have to do a base for the concrete to sit on so you'll end up digging out more dirt.     

> there is a large jacaranda right next to the area i'm paving, would the base stop the roots from breaking up the pavers?

  
Cut and dig out any roots that are in the area where you are going to pave.      

> can I use recycled crusher dust?

  Absolutely.
As long as you compact it.....  :Wink:    
At the end of the day, as with anything built on the ground, if you skimp on the foundations, what's on top will move.
Do it right from the start and you'll have nothing to worry about.   
It sounds to me like you're taking on a pretty big job without knowing the basics.
I'm not trying to discourage you but doing the base work right is the most important part of paving. 
Any more questions just ask.     :Smilie:

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## mordrax

> It sounds to me like you're taking on a pretty big job without knowing the basics.
> I'm not trying to discourage you but doing the base work right is the most important part of paving.

  
Yep, once again I'm caught with my pants down  :Blush7:  just like when I was doing the patio trying to span 3.6m with 45x90 TP...
No discouragement at all, in fact, you've helped me greatly. Just goes to show if I want to do anything properly, I can't listen to the wife  :Biggrin: .
Long night of research tonight, thank you for being really helpful! I'll come back either with more questions or final plan to run it past you.

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## PlatypusGardens

No probs mate.
I'll do my best to help.     :Smilie:

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## mordrax

So over the weekend, we did a ton of excavation. Literally.   
There's my cousin doing some excavation with me. We moved about 20 wheelbarrows worth of dirt to various parts of the garden. 
So the plan for now is: 
Excavate 70mm down from the pavers that run along the house. Those pavers slop down in the direction that my cousin is facing so if I use the height of the pavers as a guide for slope, it would come out as about 300mm fall over 8m, which translates to about 2.1 deg. Not sure about run off but I plan to run a small trench around the border for the water run off just in case. 
I'm switching to roadbase for the subbase. Had a builder comment on it and did some more research, sounded like it's stronger. 5 tonne to cover ~3.5 cubic meter ($42 / tonne) 
River sand for the bedding and grouting sand. 1.5 tonne to cover ~1 cubic meter ($66 / tonne) 
Put roadbase on the excavated dirt, water, compact x 3. 
Bed sand on the roadbase *AND* the paved path so there isn't two different types of pavers. 
Screed and lay pavers, compact. 
Use sand / cement on the borders and create the little ditch for water. No sleeper borders. (This is what my builder suggested, just go over it with sand cement at the end.

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## PlatypusGardens

That's the way!
Get stuck in to it. 
Dig out about 500mm past where you estimate the edge to be and do your base to that point.
There's nothing worse than getting to the end and having the last paver half in the dirt. 
Also when you do your concrete edge it's good if it's embedded in the compacted base.
Throw a bit of gravel in the mix for the edge or get some premixed "builders mix" (coarse sand and 10-20mm pebbles) from the landscape supplier for better strength. 
Or you could use some of the leftover roadbase with sand and cement as well.     :2thumbsup:

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## mordrax

This paving thing is hard work... 
Got this delivered on friday 8am    
9am     
10am     
2pm     
After moving and leveling 5 tonnes of roadbase, I think i'm ready to retire. 
Except just one problem. I don't have enough roadbase. I want it to be at the same level as the existing pavement when compacted. But right now, it only comes level to the existing pavement and it hasn't been compacted.
So going to order another 50m2 * 25mm = 1.25m3 of roadbase (2 tonne?) and another tonne of riversand. That would bring me up to a total of 7 tonnes of roadbase and 2 tonnes of sand for this 50m2 job. 
Wife is finalizing which pavers to pick and i've got a pretty good hire rate for a plate compactor, $100 over the weekend. Another couple of days back breaking work to go.

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## PlatypusGardens

Oh I feel your pain, mate.
That's a lot of barrowing...      :Wtg:

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