# Forum Home Renovation Solar Electrical Systems  PV results - first year

## chrisp

Hi all, 
I’ve been looking at the performance of my PV system since it has now been installed and operating for a bit over a year. I thought that I’d look over an one year interval to see how it is going. 
It can be difficult to predict the benefits of a PV system as it is highly dependent upon when energy is used. I thought that I’d share my actual results in case it is of benefit to others.  *The* *system* *configuration* 
The house is located in Melbourne. The system is a 20 panel system, with 9 panels on the North roof and 11 panel set on the West roof. The roof pitch is 25 degrees. The panels are 335W peak each. The system uses microinverters (a seperate inverter on each panel) and each microinverter is rated at 270W (but this will drop to 260W in certain conditions). 
On paper, the system is a 6.7kW DC system but it is inverter limited to producing a maximum of 5.4kW in to the AC system.  *The* *monitoring*
I’m monitoring the system via two seperate logging system. Firstly, the PV system includes a comprehensive ‘all of house’ monitoring and I can produce reports on PV production, internal consumption, externally exported energy, and imported energy. 
At the time of the installation (but after the PV system was operational), I also had the switchboard and incoming mains supply upgraded. As a result, I had a new electricity meter installed so I can use it’s recordings for long term net-import and net-export.  *The* *data*
Over a 365 day period, the electricity meter (monitoring the incoming mains) readings are: 
Import = 3888.998 kWh
Export = 6456.703 kWh 
For imported energy, I pay $0.2925 per kWh which excludes both 10% GST and a 10% ‘on time payment’ discount (which cancel each other out).
For exported energy, I receive $0.114 per kWh 
So, over the year, I paid $1137.53 for the electricity that I imported, and I received $729.61 for the energy that was exported. This resulted in a net electricity bill of $407.92. Note, I have ignored the ‘supply charge’ for these calculations.  *Gross* *figures*
The above figures are based on ‘net figures’ and don’t factor in the energy used ‘behind the meter’. i.e. during the day, there is energy generated by the PV system that is used within the house and not exported to the grid. This internal usage doesn’t show up on the electricity meter. 
Using the data logging system included with the PV system, I can get report son the actual energy produced by the PV panels and the actual energy consumed (i.e. gross figures). 
Over the same period above, the production and consumption figures are: 
PV production = 8322.495 kWh 
gross consumption = 5583.395 kWh 
There is a problem with the two figures immediately above. The PV data logging system failed during the year and 27 days of data was not recorded. However, the PV system was still working as normal - it was only some data that was lost. To patch the missing data, I averaged a week or so of data prior to the system failing and used the average daily figures to patch the missing data. 
The ‘patched’ gross figures are: 
PV production = 8726.098 kWh
gross consumption = 6078.990 kWh  *The* *total* *cost* *savings* 
If I didn’t have the PV system, I would have imported 6078.990 kWh at a cost of $1778.10 (excluding the ‘supply charge’). 
My actual energy cost was $407.92. *The* *PV* *system* *has* *saved $1370.18 over one year (a 77% reduction).*  *Comparing against predictions*
There are ready reckoner figures that can be used to estimate the energy production of a given PV system in a given location. For Melbourne, it is estimated that a PV system will produce an average of 3.6 kWh/kW (of installed capacity) per day. 
This predicts that my 6.7 kW (DC) system should annually produce: 
6.7 kW x 3.6 kWh/kW/day x 365 day/year = 8803.8 kWh per annum  
This figure is close to the actual figure of 8726.098 kWh (over 365 days).  *Energy Balance* 
All the above calculations are cost, and savings, calculations. In addition to the cost benefits, there are energy and environmental benefits. 
The PV system has produced a total of 8726 kWh over the year. About 6100 kWh was used by the household, and about 2560 kWh was exported in to the grid. *The PV system is producing about 140% of the household electricity needs.*

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## phild01

I have a few more months for mine to show annual results but I am estimating an average daily output of 17kWh.  The biggest daily output I have had is 35 kWh early in December.  It is just shy of a 5kW system.  In Sydney with so many overcast days, I expect my payback will likely be between 3 and 4 years.

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## Moondog55

About time we tried to do something serious here. 
Every estimate that has been done here is marginal tho unless we remove the Deodora in the North facing front yard and we don't want to cut down a mature cedar. We would need to make a frame structure to hold the panels and that adds considerably to the cost and therefore that all important payback time.
We have got to investigate the new state scheme I think; now we seem to be on track with the renovations again

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## BRADFORD

I have had a 5 kw system for some years and the data you quote is almost exactly the same as mine.
My average annual saving is $1352.
We would get more sunshine than you, our average yearly output is 9440 kwh, but we only get just over 7 cents per unit for export.

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## Bros

> It can be difficult to predict the benefits of a PV system as it is highly dependent upon when energy is used. I thought that I’d share my actual results in case it is of benefit to others.

   Couple of questions. 
Is the rest of the house committed to reducing consumption when the sun doesn't shine eg doesn't do the washing? 
Sometimes it is not worth the aggravation produced. 
Do you use excess power for water heating and what tariff do you use as a backup and is the backup automatically via the thermostat or manual? 
Your AC's are they on the solar side of the tariff and again is there any backup?

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## chrisp

> Couple of questions. 
> Is the rest of the house committed to reducing consumption when the sun doesn't shine eg doesn't do the washing? 
> Sometimes it is not worth the aggravation produced. 
> Do you use excess power for water heating and what tariff do you use as a backup and is the backup automatically via the thermostat or manual? 
> Your AC's are they on the solar side of the tariff and again is there any backup?

  They’re all good questions (and I was going to comment on some of those aspects in the original post but I thought it was long enough). 
With regards to the time of use - i.e. trying to use the PV energy when it is available - we have been slowly changing our habits.  
In the past, we tended to use heavy power appliances in the evening or nighttime. So were in the habit of running the dishwasher at night, and also tended to do clothes washing at night. We are very bad/lazy and also tend to use the clothes drier rather than a clothesline. Again, this was mostly used overnight. 
We have been getting better at running appliances during the day instead, but I think that we can still do better in that regard. 
The other change that happened at the time we had the PV installed is that we had two 6.3 kWh air conditioners installed. So these have upped our power consumption, but I have noticed that their energy demand tracks very well with the output of the PV system. It is rare for the energy demand of the air conditioners (when used for cooling) to exceed output of the PV system. It is great to have a comfortable cool house and still be exporting energy to the grid at the same time!  
What I have been trying is to use the air conditioners for heating during the day in winter instead of our gas central heating. Again, it is early days for us and a bit of habit changing to be done. 
The most difficult load to shift is my adult son who is a student and living at home. He tends to be up at all hours of the night playing online games and the like! 
Our hot water and cooking is also natural gas, however, if we update the appliances, we would consider moving to an induction cooktop as we now have sufficient incoming (3 phase supply) capacity to support it whereas before we didn’t have the capacity in the supply. With regards to hot water, in Victoria gas is still pretty cheap but I might consider moving to instantaneous gas or maybe heat-pump electric but I’m not convinced of the reliability of the latter. 
I have also been wondering about our fridge. It is quite old (25 years plus) and it probably isn’t anywhere near as efficient as near fridges. I have noticed that it is probably the most significant overnight load when we are away. I must stick my energy monitor on it and get some actual numbers on it. 
 My general philosophy is not so much to save energy and money for the sake of saving, but to try and make things easy and comfortable while also keeping costs and environmental impact down. For example, I’m happy to run air conditioners on a hot day as it doesn’t cost me anything although I’m forgoing some export credits and I could be doing more for the environment. The easiest ‘fix’ would be to install even more panels and reach cost neutrality. I like things to be ‘set and forget’ as far as possible. 
I think that I will tackle:
Improving our ‘time of use’ to maximise our utilisation of the PV,
Improve the insulation of the house,
Transfer some of the gas usage to electricity were possible (e.g. heating),
Replacing older appliances with more efficient appliances. 
And your other question, we are on a ‘anytime’ tariff so we pay the same per unit no matter what time we use electricity. I haven’t looked in to ‘time of use’ tariffs to see if they would be advantageous to us. However, I think that I should look in to a ‘time of use’ tariff as I think that I probably have enough data to work out if it would be cheaper. 
I just checked the energy usuage. It is late afternoon and we are running two air conditioners, a dishwasher and a clothes dryer and we are still exporting electricity.

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## Bros

Interesting reply. I only have small system 3kw but we export half of what we produce and the return is poor. I live in a Ergon supply district and we have 3 domestic tariff's 
T11 is general use and costs $0.27c per KWH 
T31 which is mainly used for hot water and it costs $0.19 per KWH and is only generally available from 11pm to 6am. 
T33 which can be used for anything (if you want to run the risk of losing power from 5pm to 9pm) provided it is permanently connected it costs $0.23c per KWH. My Laundry is on this tariff (but I think I will shift it to T11 and take advantage of the excess solar) alos my tow AC's but only the bedroom one is used most frequently.

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## chrisp

> *
> The* *data*
> Over a 365 day period, the electricity meter (monitoring the incoming mains) readings are: 
> Import = 3888.998 kWh
> Export = 6456.703 kWh 
> For imported energy, I pay $0.2925 per kWh which excludes both 10% GST and a 10% ‘on time payment’ discount (which cancel each other out).
> For exported energy, I receive $0.114 per kWh 
> So, over the year, I paid $1137.53 for the electricity that I imported, and I received $729.61 for the energy that was exported. This resulted in a net electricity bill of $407.92. Note, I have ignored the ‘supply charge’ for these calculations.

  
A minor update - today I decided the use the Victorian Governments energy comparison website to see if there were any better electricity rates. 
Interestingly, the site recommended a different supplied who offers a better feed in tariff. 
Using the same data above, the annual costs would be: 
Import = 3888.998 kWh
Export = 6456.703 kWh 
With the new supplier, the figures are: 
For imported energy, I will pay $0.28809 per kWh which includes 10% GST (and there is no ‘pay on time’ discount).
For exported energy, I receive $0.20 per kWh (a big improvement). 
So, over the year, the charges should be about $1120.38 for the electricity that I import (almost identical to the above) and I should received $1291.34 for the energy exported. This resulted in a net electricity bill of $170.96 CREDIT.  Note, I have ignored the ‘supply charge’ for these calculations. 
Also, as a bonus, the new supplier has a slight lower ‘daily supply charge’ fee. 
So, for a few hours on the web and crunching some numbers, the savings amount to about $500 per year. Well worth it!

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## JB1

Good results, who is your distributor? 
My rates seem higher but distributor seems higher than at my other house.

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## chrisp

> Good results, who is your distributor? 
> My rates seem higher but distributor seems higher than at my other house.

  I’ve sent you a PM with the details. Energy offers come and go so I thought that I’d keep the names of the companies off the open forum. 
The Victorian comparison website is https://compare.energy.vic.gov.au/ - and you can claim your $50 just for using it (if you haven’t done so already).

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## Bros

> For imported energy, I will pay $0.28809 per kWh which includes 10% GST (and there is no ‘pay on time’ discount).
> For exported energy, I receive $0.20 per kWh (a big improvement).

   Have you only got access to one tariff?

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## chrisp

> Have you only got access to one tariff?

  I can access about 4 or 5 different tariffs, but it seems that the flat rate which includes the better feed-in rate gives the best $ outcome on the comparison website.  
One day I’ll have to download all the smart meter readings over a year and crunch the numbers in a spreadsheet to see if any of the time-of-day tariffs would be better. 
The good news is that new offer doesn’t have a lock-in contract period so, if a better rates or better tariff comes along, I can change.

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## Bros

> I can access about 4 or 5 different tariffs, but it seems that the flat rate which includes the better feed-in rate gives the best $ outcome on the comparison website.   
> The good news is that new offer doesn’t have a lock-in contract period so, if a better rates or better tariff comes along, I can change.

   Does the higher feed in tariff locks you into the one user tariff? 
As for contracts I don’t like them at all, all my comms are on a casual basis.

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## chrisp

> Does the higher feed in tariff locks you into the one user tariff?

  I believe so (but I can’t be certain). 
I went to the supplier’s website and did an online estimate using my actual consumption, and generation, figures for the year. When I compared the various tariffs, the difference was huge - the other tariffs gave annual costs of about $1000 - $2000 per year, whereas their ‘solar’ tariff gave a total of about $250/annum (which includes the daily supply charge). 
Interestingly, on the Victorian Energy Compare website, the feed-in rate is stated as $0.18/kWh (ex GST), but when I went to the suppier’s website, the feed-in is quoted at $0.20 (assumably with GST?). Anyway, the supplier’s website calculated everything ex-GST and with GST (whereas the Victorian government website only calculated it ex-GST).

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## phild01

I just went to Service NSW and it analyses my current bill and says I am on the best available deal with AGL. My export is about 11 cents and import about 24 cents.  But I have O/P at about 11 cents.

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## UseByDate

> I believe so (but I can’t be certain). 
> I went to the supplier’s website and did an online estimate using my actual consumption, and generation, figures for the year. When I compared the various tariffs, the difference was huge - the other tariffs gave annual costs of about $1000 - $2000 per year, whereas their ‘solar’ tariff gave a total of about $250/annum (which includes the daily supply charge). 
> Interestingly, on the Victorian Energy Compare website, the feed-in rate is stated as $0.18/kWh (ex GST), but when I went to the suppier’s website, the feed-in is quoted at $0.20 (assumably with GST?). Anyway, the supplier’s website calculated everything ex-GST and with GST (whereas the Victorian government website only calculated it ex-GST).

  Just read your post and it got me thinking about GST and solar. If you buy x kWh of electricity from the electricity company and you sell the same amount back to the company, is it considered to be two transactions by the ATO or no transaction? I presume if it was the former then GST would be payable but if it was the latter no GST would be paid.

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## chrisp

> Just read your post and it got me thinking about GST and solar. If you buy x kWh of electricity from the electricity company and you sell the same amount back to the company, is it considered to be two transactions by the ATO or no transaction? I presume if it was the former then GST would be payable but if it was the latter no GST would be paid.

  The ATO treat it as two transactions, so GST is payable on the imported energy in full. 
The exported energy is also subject to GST but there seems to be some exemptions that kick in for private households... 
”In most cases, systems installed at domestic sites would not be taxable as they would be considered personal use / hobby (i.e. not in the nature of a business or profit making scheme)” - https://www.energymatters.com.au/reb.../feedintariff/

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## John2b

Good to hear it's been worthwhile Chrisp. We've taken the plunge and gone off-grid. It is the best decision we've made, and was helped when our network operator 'deemed' our house to be using 15kWh per day even when it was unoccupied and turned off at the meter for months at a time (the meter display was faulty and could not be read). 
An off-grid system needs to be sized for the worst couple of weeks of the year and the rest of the time there is energy to 'burn' as there is no option to export back to the grid. We do have a back-up generator, but I haven't run that since June last year. The free energy has made us think creatively about what to do with the spare electricity, for example we use an electric oven in summer instead of gas (the electric oven is outside the house so it doesn't heat inside). We've just purchased an electric car (we'll keep our diesel 4WD as a backup) and we are purchasing a desalination plant as our ground water is a little too brackish for the garden during dry seasons when there is little rainfall. 
On the days when we really need the extra electricity (cloudy periods) it makes almost no difference which way the PV panels are facing because the solar irradiance from the sky is diffuse under those conditions. The normal geometrical principles of maximising output become irrelevant on just those few days and on other days we have more than enough, so I am putting up extra panels where they fit irrespective of direction so we get more use out of the electric car in winter. We started with 4.6kW of panels and I intended to add another ~5kW using cheap secondhand panels from people upsizing. The going rate is about $0.25 per kW of panel and the 10 year old Sharp panels I am buying all still meet original output specifications.

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## Moondog55

Cecile and I are getting quotes
I am blown away at how much the cost has come down in a short time. Rumours that Labor are going to make an election promise that battery packs are going to be subsidised

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## phild01

Only just suggested this site in your renovations thread: https://www.solarquotes.com.au

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## UseByDate

> We've just purchased an electric car

  What car did you buy and how much did you pay?

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## chrisp

> Good to hear it's been worthwhile Chrisp. We've taken the plunge and gone off-grid. It is the best decision we've made, and was helped when our network operator 'deemed' our house to be using 15kWh per day even when it was unoccupied and turned off at the meter for months at a time (the meter display was faulty and could not be read). 
> An off-grid system needs to be sized for the worst couple of weeks of the year and the rest of the time there is energy to 'burn' as there is no option to export back to the grid. We do have a back-up generator, but I haven't run that since June last year. The free energy has made us think creatively about what to do with the spare electricity, for example we use an electric oven in summer instead of gas (the electric oven is outside the house so it doesn't heat inside). We've just purchased an electric car (we'll keep our diesel 4WD as a backup) and we are purchasing a desalination plant as our ground water is a little too brackish for the garden during dry seasons when there is little rainfall. 
> On the days when we really need the extra electricity (cloudy periods) it makes almost no difference which way the PV panels are facing because the solar irradiance from the sky is diffuse under those conditions. The normal geometrical principles of maximising output become irrelevant on just those few days and on other days we have more than enough, so I am putting up extra panels where they fit irrespective of direction so we get more use out of the electric car in winter. We started with 4.6kW of panels and I intended to add another ~5kW using cheap secondhand panels from people upsizing. The going rate is about $0.25 per kW of panel and the 10 year old Sharp panels I am buying all still meet original output specifications.

  Thanks John. 
I find it fascinating the disruptive potential of small scale renewable energy. If one can afford the upfront capital costs, energy costs effectively become zero. So, as you say, one can have ‘energy to burn’ - at zero cost. 
I’ve had a bit to do with energy conversion over many decades (but mainly on the technical side). I’ve always thought that fossil energy prices are far too low for the benefits we receive from that energy. We were burning a resource that took many millions of years to form and depleting that resource over a couple of hundred years. I suspect that future generations will dub our era the ‘fossil fuel era’. 
However, it now seems that we have started to enter a ‘zero cost energy era’ thanks to advances in renewable energy technologies. While there is still much to be done (particularly with energy storage and producing a grid better suited to distributed generation), it is feasible for a household to become economically neutral with regards to electricity costs. 
I can see the day where houses are producing far more energy than they need (your system is one example), and we’ll have so much energy that we’ll be looking at what to do with the excess. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone comes up with a domestic sized, electrically powered, hydrocarbon generator so one can produce some form of hydrocarbon for either storage, or fueling conventional combustion engines. The closest that seems feasible at the moment is to produce hydrogen and store it as ammonia. 
It is interesting to read Government delaying the uptake of renewable energy supposedly due to the high costs. Meanwhile, the average householder is happily slapping PV panels on their roof and watching their electricity bills diminish. 
I can also see the day where we (as a society) might even implement some form of active CO2 abatement program where we use the excess renewable energy to convert atmospheric CO2 in to a solid form of carbon that we can safely bury in the ground. i.e. where we make coal rather than burn it!

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## phild01

> It is interesting to read Government delaying the uptake of renewable energy supposedly due to the high costs. Meanwhile, the average householder is happily slapping PV panels on their roof and watching their electricity bills diminish.

  Only because of subsidies which is a cost to Government.  I wouldn't have slapped them up there except for that.  But, yes, when this type of energy is absolute will it be a great achievement.  As for battery storage, that is too high a cost to the pocket and environment.  I hope hydrogen production one day becomes a viable reality.

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## John2b

> I can see the day where houses are producing far more energy than they need (your system is one example), and we’ll have so much energy that we’ll be looking at what to do with the excess. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone comes up with a domestic sized, electrically powered, hydrocarbon generator so one can produce some form of hydrocarbon for either storage, or fueling conventional combustion engines. The closest that seems feasible at the moment is to produce hydrogen and store it as ammonia.

  It is easy to produce hydrogen using solar electricity, water and electrolysis. Small scale catalytic conversion of hydrogen gas to alcohols is currently under commercial development. I would expect in a couple of years time we'll be using our solar energy to make liquid hydrocarbon fuels for small engine machines like the ride on mower, pumps and backup generator.

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## John2b

> What car did you buy and how much did you pay?

   We bought a 2016 Nissan Leaf at auction in Japan for ~AU$12,000. The car is one of the high spec models with large battery, four camera safety vision, Bose sound system and nice aftermarket wheels and has done 30,000 kms. The cost of freight, agent, customs, compliance and registration is ~$8,000, so around $20,000 all up.

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## John2b

> Only because of subsidies which is a cost to Government.  I wouldn't have slapped them up there except for that.  But, yes, when this type of energy is absolute will it be a great achievement.  As for battery storage, that is too high a cost to the pocket and environment.  I hope hydrogen production one day becomes a viable reality.

  If it's not economic for then it isn't being done right - we certainly don't have money to burn and we are doing this to save money! For what it's worth the government subsidy was gratefully accepted but was only about 10% of the installed system cost. We did not factor in the subsidy when making the decision to go ahead, so it is just a little bonus.   

> As for battery storage, that is too high a cost to the pocket and environment.

  We chose advanced carbon lead batteries because almost all lead batteries are recycled and the activated carbon coated cathode solves the biggest problems with lead batteries - sulfation and low charge acceptance. The batteries have a greater than 20 year expected life under normal load conditions, but as our system is over-engineered the batteries used very conservatively we'll probably never need to replace them.   

> I hope hydrogen production one day becomes a viable reality.

  Better than that, production of alcohols (liquid fuel) will soon be viable from hydrogen produced using solar electricity and water by electrolysis, and then a catalytic process:  *Alcohol synthesis from carbon monoxide and hydrogen over MoS sub 2 -based catalysts*  https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ased_catalysts

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## phild01

> but was only about 10% of the installed system cost. We did not factor in the subsidy when making the decision to go ahead, so it is just a little bonus.

  For me it was far more than 10%. Can you mention what the additional feed-in tariff subsidy was back then!

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## JB1

> Good to hear it's been worthwhile Chrisp. We've taken the plunge and gone off-grid. It is the best decision we've made, and was helped when our network operator 'deemed' our house to be using 15kWh per day even when it was unoccupied and turned off at the meter for months at a time (the meter display was faulty and could not be read). 
> An off-grid system needs to be sized for the worst couple of weeks of the year and the rest of the time there is energy to 'burn' as there is no option to export back to the grid. We do have a back-up generator, but I haven't run that since June last year. The free energy has made us think creatively about what to do with the spare electricity, for example we use an electric oven in summer instead of gas (the electric oven is outside the house so it doesn't heat inside). We've just purchased an electric car (we'll keep our diesel 4WD as a backup) and we are purchasing a desalination plant as our ground water is a little too brackish for the garden during dry seasons when there is little rainfall. 
> On the days when we really need the extra electricity (cloudy periods) it makes almost no difference which way the PV panels are facing because the solar irradiance from the sky is diffuse under those conditions. The normal geometrical principles of maximising output become irrelevant on just those few days and on other days we have more than enough, so I am putting up extra panels where they fit irrespective of direction so we get more use out of the electric car in winter. We started with 4.6kW of panels and I intended to add another ~5kW using cheap secondhand panels from people upsizing. The going rate is about $0.25 per kW of panel and the 10 year old Sharp panels I am buying all still meet original output specifications.

  Awesome to hear. 
How many kw is your battery? 
We just installed a 5kw system (6kw of panels). 
After the Vic Govn rebate, it will only cost us around $2,400. 
Generating between 21 and 39kwh in the past month in Melb. Panels are west facing. 
Payback should a few years at most, but if it helps the environment,  then even better.
....

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## John2b

> For me it was far more than 10%. Can you mention what the additional feed-in tariff subsidy was back then!

  We went off-grid, so no feeding tariff available. I don't know what it would have been if we were on grid.

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## John2b

> How many kw is your battery?

  24 x 2 volt batteries at 960Ah = 46kWh

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## UseByDate

> We bought a 2016 Nissan Leaf at auction in Japan for ~AU$12,000. The car is one of the high spec models with large battery, four camera safety vision, Bose sound system and nice aftermarket wheels and has done 30,000 kms. The cost of freight, agent, customs, compliance and registration is ~$8,000, so around $20,000 all up.

  Nice.
 Will there be any problem maintaining it in Australia? The Bose system would be overkill for me. My hearing lacks both top and bottom frequency sensitivity.   :Redface:

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## John2b

> Nice.
>  Will there be any problem maintaining it in Australia?

  There is bugger-all* maintenance required (*technical term for "very little"). Nissan Australia do support Leafs as the first gen were sold in Australia and the second gen will go on sale later this year. The special 'eco' t*y*res typically last more than 100k as do brake pads - thanks to regenerative braking. There's no oil or oil filter to change, no tappets or timing belt, etc, etc. Dealers I know including BMW ones say that once someone buys an electric vehicle, they won't go back to the oil and smoke variety.

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## Bros

This is the last month for me. We use the AC a bit during the month but it isn't connected to T11 tariff so it is irrelevant  Total generated 577.91  Total exported 345     Total used T11 232.91  Total saved T11 $62.89  Revenue exported $32.35  Return for month $95.24

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## phild01

Mine was around 660.  You must get good sunshine where you are as you have a smaller system.

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## Bros

> Mine was around 660.  You must get good sunshine where you are as you have a smaller system.

  Unfortunately yes as this has been one of the driest summers I can remember.

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