# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Alternate spot for wall taps for washing machine

## stevo27

So, everyone knows the taps on the wall in the laundry for the washing machine, Im wondering if they can be moved to say, inside a cabinet? 
The reason I ask is, Im about to start redoing the lot, and I have a splashback (that was a reject from the kitchen) that Id like to use but has no cutouts for the taps. 
Thanks

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## Pulse

Use an Arco mini combi  http://www.reece.com.au/plumbing/products/100833 
let's you hook up the laundry tub mixer and the washing machine. I just holesawed a hole in the side of the plastic tub. 
neat as   
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## NRB

I heard that the taps have to be as high as the water level of the clothes washing machine,something about possible back flow out of the machine

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## JB1

> I heard that the taps have to be as high as the water level of the clothes washing machine,something about possible back flow out of the machine

  You're probably thinking of the waste. 
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## NRB

The height comment came about some years ago when I pulled out a vanity unit and put a washing machine in the same place and connected the hoses to the outlets that were down low,a plumber friend visited and said I shouldn't have done that as grey water could get back into the system 
The waste doesn't connect to the supply

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## NRB

Or was he winding me up because I didn't get him to move the tapes

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## Kamei

Nope, that's right, should be higher than tub in machine. 
If the the machine is full and there's a break in a pipe out in the street it could end up sucking the water out of the machine back into the water mains. 
The way around this would be to fit a back flow arrester valve in line. 
It's the same reason you shouldn't leave the end of the hose in the pool when you're filling it.

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## joynz

My plumber-installed washing machine taps are 530mm above floor level. 
They are designed to be inside a cupboard under the bench.

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## toooldforthis

not meaning to hijack thread
but my last two washing machines, both front loaders, only had one hose, so only one tap used.
is this common or should one always install two taps?

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## NRB

We have a front loader with one hose,told at the store that they use so much less water than top loaded that it is more economic to heat the water than use hot water from the house water supply 
SWMBO washes with cold water anyway

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## phild01

I only installed cold for my front loader, but if the future holds a top loader then two taps could be req'd with what you have.

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## NRB

Our machine only has one hose,as installation book says to be connected to the cold outlet

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## joynz

> not meaning to hijack thread
> but my last two washing machines, both front loaders, only had one hose, so only one tap used.
> is this common or should one always install two taps?

  Always best to install two taps.  You don't have to use them both. 
For people on solar hot water it may be more economical to use their free hot water as opposed to electrically heating it.  Then again, for those with solar power...the electricity may be free...

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## joynz

> Our machine only has one hose,as installation book says to be connected to the cold outlet

  You can buy front loaders that can be connected to hot water as well, I understand.

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## VVV

> We have a front loader with one hose,told at the store that they use so much less water than top loaded that it is more economic to heat the water than use hot water from the house water supply 
> SWMBO washes with cold water anyway

  this is all about how much cold water is in your hot pipe (between HWS and a washing machine tap) cos the machine will heat it anyway...That's why some manufacturer calculated that it's cheaper to heat up 1-3L of cold water..

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## Spottiswoode

> this is all about how much cold water is in your hot pipe (between HWS and a washing machine tap) cos the machine will heat it anyway...That's why some manufacturer calculated that it's cheaper to heat up 1-3L of cold water..

  That's what I figured. There is not a lot of point connecting up to a hot water tap if it takes several more litres to get to the hot water than the machine requires. Might as well just heat it from cold in the accurate amount. Same with dishwashers. Dishwasher uses 10-13L on an average cycle. If you draw that water in several times over the hour or two long cycle, chances are most of it is going to be cold and the machine will need to heat it anyway. 
Makes me wonder how much more efficient our old house was. The cold tap in summer would produce hot water. Other than the tiny amount in the tap, and some from the wall cavity, all the water pipes in the roof cavity were providing scalding hot water on a hot day.

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## commodorenut

Our dishwasher has always been run off the hot water.  Even though it's a good 15m run, there's not a huge volume of water in the pipe.  If we had a small HWS and were at risk of running out, then I would have asked the plumber to change it to the cold.   
However, as he explained at my old house when he first installed a stop cock & drain (no provisions for a DW, so it had to be located well away from the sink) you're getting hot water heated at 5c/kwh vs cold water you have to heat at 15c/kwh (this was a while back).  Regardless of how much the machine has to heat the water, it takes a consistent amount of energy to actually heat the water, so if you can heat some of it at 5c/kwh and the machine finishes it off at 15c/kwh it's still a decent saving over the life of the machine.   
A domestic HWS is only going to give you 55-65°C to the dishwasher anyway, and most heat the water a lot further, so it's always going to need to use the internal element, but the shorter it's on, the better.  In a time-of-use metering (dumb/smart meters) situation, the cost "gap" can be far more significant, especially if solar HW is part of the household too. 
The other advantage we've noticed in both places is the machine's cycle is quicker when using hot water, as it's not sitting and waiting so long for it to heat up before proceeding.  The latest machine has a digital display with a countdown timer, and you can see it's calibrated to think it's getting cold water, as it pauses at the heat-up cycles, and skips down a few minutes at a time before continuing on.  It may only save 5-6 minutes overall, but why not make use of the opportunity for more efficient operation? 
In 15-20 years we've never run HW to the clothes washing machine though, and neither did my parents when I was growing up.  
Even through 2 renovations I've always installed twin taps for the washing machine - old house had diverters running off the tub taps, so we even had to chase new pipes into the single-skin rendered brick wall to provide taps.  I just hook up the hose (not tight) and don't turn on the hot.   
But it's a different story with a clothes washing machine where choosing cold means you can actually run cold.

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## VVV

> Our dishwasher has always been run off the hot water.  Even though it's a good 15m run, there's not a huge volume of water in the pipe.  If we had a small HWS and were at risk of running out, then I would have asked the plumber to change it to the cold.

  I dont remember exactly but when I was investigating this there were issues to connect DW to HW... I think at some point it requires cold water or something related to chemicals or wash programs..

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## David.Elliott

I've just read all these and I THINK I still have not seen and answer to the Q about height of taps connected to WM? Do they need to be above the tub level?

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## Marc

Someone said the plumber installed under the bench so apparently OK. 
The comment about the sucking water back in case of a broken pipe is surely very unlikely and would happen anyway regardless of the height of the taps. If you had the taps on the ceiling they would be still full of water and suck happily away. Only a return valve would prevent that. Or is it a no return valve ... or return not valve? Anyway one of those ...  :Smilie:

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## joynz

> I've just read all these and I THINK I still have not seen and answer to the Q about height of taps connected to WM? Do they need to be above the tub level?

  I reported that my plumber installed at 530 mm - post #8

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## NRB

I read that they need to be above the tub unless you have a no return valve to stop back flow

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## David.Elliott

So, in the interest of thoroughness I contacted the manufacturer about inlet tap heights.  
As a side note I wonder why the wife buys the Asko stuff. Recently had two reasons presented to me. First one was a few weeks ago the wife presented me with the plan to place the dryer on top of  the WM. Had a look for the book, not found, so went online and found the manual. It mentioned some feet that go onto the WM. No idea where they are now. so I contacted customer service and some arrived free, incl free post... Then yesterday sent the Q about tap heights and an answer in a hour... 
Anyway the official position is that inlet tap heights are immaterial, but Andre from Asko did mention that the drain hose loop MUST touch the bottom of the benchtop, and the drain spigot on the drain MUST be drilled out to its maximum...and it's apparently common for these two to get confused...

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## Bigboboz

> The comment about the sucking water back in case of a broken pipe is surely very unlikely and would happen anyway regardless of the height of the taps. If you had the taps on the ceiling they would be still full of water and suck happily away. Only a return valve would prevent that. Or is it a no return valve ... or return not valve? Anyway one of those ...

  Exactly what I was thinking.  Height is irrelevant if it's a narrow pipe full of water...

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## joynz

> So, in the interest of thoroughness I contacted the manufacturer about inlet tap heights.  
> As a side note I wonder why the wife buys the Asko stuff. Recently had two reasons presented to me. First one was a few weeks ago the wife presented me with the plan to place the dryer on top of  the WM. Had a look for the book, not found, so went online and found the manual. It mentioned some feet that go onto the WM. No idea where they are now. so I contacted customer service and some arrived free, incl free post... Then yesterday sent the Q about tap heights and an answer in a hour... 
> Anyway the official position is that inlet tap heights are immaterial, but Andre from Asko did mention that the drain hose loop MUST touch the bottom of the benchtop, and the drain spigot on the drain MUST be drilled out to its maximum...and it's apparently common for these two to get confused...

  Does that mean the drain pipe has to be *long enough to touch the bottom of the benchtop* or that it has to be secured to the bottom of the benchtop?

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## David.Elliott

> Does that mean the drain pipe has to be *long enough to touch the bottom of the benchtop* or that it has to be secured to the bottom of the benchtop?

  
The pipe will always be long enough to touch the bottom of the benchtop. With DWs I install I use an electrical conduit saddle screwed to the back of the sink carcass to hold the pipe up to the height of the top of the carcass...

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## Sir Stinkalot

We have just put in a new laundry with the taps under the sink in the cupboard. The drain pipe we have kept as high as possible at the back of the machine before running it back under the sink. In the past (perhaps they still do) washing machines came with a saddle (similar concept to David with his electrical conduit saddle) and it was designed to loop the drain pipe higher than the machine before disposal.

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