# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  Samsung v Fujitsu v others?

## pauljygrant

We have just moved into our new house and started discussing aircon systems with a couple of Adelaide firms.The first was pushing  both Fujitsu ( we had a smaller R/C ducted Fujitsu in our last place and didn't have any problems during the 5 years) and Samsung whilst the second was talking about Mitsubishi, Toshiba, and Hitachi.They have both agreed to run our house spec through their computer systems to work out the exact requirements before quoting both we're talking about single phase 12 kw ish.Any thoughts on the brands?  Wanting to balance initial cost with reliability / running costs / spare parts & service knowledge.....For what it's worth, we don't anticipate over working any system - we only used our last one on extreme hot days and n the winter evenings to take the chill of the bedrooms ( the wood burner will provide primary heat to the main areas )Cheers, Paul ,

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## Belair_Boy

> .Any thoughts on the brands?

  G'day Paul 
I was just discussing air conditioning systems with our local AC service guy the other week while he was re-gassing one of our split systems.
His recommendation on brand was Daikin.  He also advised me against using a split system with multiple heads (which was a pity as I was thinking of using these in the new house) due to performance and reliability issues.
For what its worth, I think his opinions are unbiased and based on years of service work, both domestic and commercial. 
At $65 call out and $140 an hour (plus gst) for a AC service guy (not to mention the huge price rise in refrigerant slipped in with the carbon tax) you want a reliable system. 
Good luck with your choice, is it not an easy decision and an expensive, long term one at that.

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## Smurf

Personally I'd go for one of the long established, big name Japanese brands since practically all comments about them seem to be positive. The ones that immediately come to mind are: 
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (not to be confused with Mitsubishi Electric which is different) 
Panasonic 
Daikin  
I'm told that Toshiba is also good but they seem to be less commonly used.

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## manofaus

I have only ever had a daikin. it is 8 years old with no problems. In the new house I have two mitsu's. They are very quiet compared to the old inverter daikin. The outside box is super quiet on these new mitsu's. 
I have been told by a service rep that hitachi air cons circuit boards are not coated in laquer and this causes all sorts of headaches when it comes to vermin and dust. 
I got the 2kw splitty for 1.5k and a 7kw splitty for 2.5k. Time will tell how they perform.

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## cyclic

Had a Daikin now for 13 years, never been gassed, never had a problem. 
Serviced once, what a joke that was. 
Daikin definately gets my vote.

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## Bloss

> Personally I'd go for one of the long established, big name Japanese brands since practically all comments about them seem to be positive. The ones that immediately come to mind are: 
> Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (not to be confused with Mitsubishi Electric which is different) 
> Panasonic 
> Daikin  
> I'm told that Toshiba is also good but they seem to be less commonly used.

   :What he said:  and see here: Air Conditioners - AS/NZS 3823.2  and  Air Conditioners - AS/NZS 3823.2

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## Floop

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries gets my vote.

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## pauljygrant

Thanks for the replies.  Got the first quote by email and the 2 prices were: 
Samsung Inverter NS155HHXE-01 15.5kW 17kW $10,770.00
Fujitsu Inverter ARTG60LHTA 15kW 18kW $11,708.00 
Prices are based on 11 outlets / 7 zones. 
Offering $500 discount off either system if paid quickly - they had the same offer 5 years ago when we last used them. 
Unfortunately, we don't have 3 phase so that rules out the Fujitsu - have asked them to quote on the next size down that is single phase although might be too small...They responded "Fujitsu's largest single phase system is only 14 KW. The only other 15  KW single phase unit that we have is LG, which is $1000 more than the  Samsung." 
I'm definitely not interested in the LG, but would like a quote on a Panasonic since everything else from them that I've every owned has been good. 
Waiting on the second large firm quoting, then will compare with a smaller installer - on that subject, can anyone in Adelaide (McLaren Vale ~ South Suburbs) recommend an installer? 
Will post more costs as they are received. 
Cheers 
Paul

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## krico

> G'day Paul 
> I was just discussing air conditioning systems with our local AC service guy the other week while he was re-gassing one of our split systems.
> His recommendation on brand was Daikin.  He also advised me against using a split system with multiple heads (which was a pity as I was thinking of using these in the new house) due to performance and reliability issues.
> For what its worth, I think his opinions are unbiased and based on years of service work, both domestic and commercial. 
> At $65 call out and $140 an hour (plus gst) for a AC service guy (not to mention the huge price rise in refrigerant slipped in with the carbon tax) you want a reliable system. 
> Good luck with your choice, is it not an easy decision and an expensive, long term one at that.

  I find it interesting that he tried to talk you out of a multi. I have installed quite a number of these, all Daikin and really never had any major problems. Biggest problem with them generally is getting capacity out of them. Sometimes it is better just to go with single splits.  
As to brands, Daikin and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries would be my choice.

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## manofaus

11 outlets and 7 zones, wow I have only ever heard of 3 zones in a house. How does 7 work?

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## pauljygrant

Hi Again,
Received another 2 firms quotes / recommendations so the list of prices and models from all 3 firms are: 
Samsung NS140HHXEH/XSA:       14kw Cooling / 16kw Heating :        $9,950
Brivis    (no model quoted)           14kw Cooling / 16kw Heating :        $9,950
Samsung NS155HHXEH/XSA:       15.5kw Cooling / 17.5kw heating :  $10,270 & $10,495 
Toshiba RAV-140 :                      12.5kw Cooling / 14 kw Heating      $11,750
Hitachi RPI-7KIT:                         16kw Cooling / 18kw Heating          $13,005
Mitsubishi Electric PEA-RP170WHA:   16kw Cooling / 20kw Heating      $14,325
Fujitsu ARTG60LHTA : 15kw Cooling / 18kw Heating : $11,208 (3 phase - not suitable) 
The  most convincing 'consultant' was recommending the Toshiba model and  explained that although it might be lower rated than others (he did not  know exactly what the other 2 firms were recommending), it can operate  continuously at its maximum so was more than capable as well as being  fully made in Japan so more reliable. It has efficiency ratings of 3.42  EER and 4.14COP - this appears good to my limited knowledge when  comparing against others brochures... 
Can anyone advise on the  most appropriate rating to use when comparing output between brands:   Standard v Maximum v Range v Rated? 
Any other comments or advise appreciated. 
Cheers, Paul

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## pauljygrant

> 11 outlets and 7 zones, wow I have only ever heard of 3 zones in a house. How does 7 work?

  I guess they can install as many zones as they wish just by adding 12v control valves in the ducting and appropriate switches. 
They are giving each room an individual zone, eg each bedroom, rumpus, study, lounge, dining. 
2 of the firms were quoting on the basis of your standard light switch arrangement (what I had in the last house and I guess good because its simple)
The other firm quoted on the basis of using a Zonemaster Maxipoint Version2 - looks impressive that you can adjust the flow or balance to each room and also removes requirement for at least one vent to be a constant (the system will ensure that at least 1 vent is operating if you don't specify, otherwise will only discharge via the ones actually required).  Worry is that its another item that could go wrong. 
Paul

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## manofaus

> it can operate continuously at its maximum

  When I compared the splittys, thats what one installer said to me. I work shift so I looked at the noise generated by the units. When running at Max or above max (or on boost) the noise level goes up considerably. According to the literature they provide.

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## wozzzzza

a hotel with daikin multi's, 7 years old, not many issues, just geckos getting on the board frying them.
only other issues starting to crop up are some noisy interior fan motors starting to make some noise.
go daikin.

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## Smurf

No doubt there's a salesman somewhere who will argue otherwise, but a 10kW (for example) air-conditioner should be able to operate for an extended period at that level of output. That's the intention of the rating - it's not a "peak" or "surge" rating. 
Same goes for most electrical things. The nominal rating is for continuous operation with the "peak" rating usually being higher. 
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there are marketing people fobbing off some sort of "boost" or "peak" rating as though it were the actual continuous output capability of the system. That's misleading but I wouldn't be surprised (to be honest, I suspect this is the primary motivation behind having a "boost" function in the first place - it makes the numbers look bigger).

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