# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  welding newbie wannabe

## InsaneAsylum

This is probably stuff I can google, but it seems there are some keen welders on here. 
I have had an interest in automotive and engineering for 25 years but have never been able to take a leap into welding. My uncle has a farm and I remember them having a 3 phase ARC welder when I was a kid for welding heavy gauge steel. sadly he's passed on and my cousin is far too busy, I don't really go there that often but occasionally when I've asked previously, I'm simply told "you can't weld that with an arc welder, you'll just blow holes in it" mainly when asking about welding thin gauge metals such as exhaust pipe. I've seen a few youtube videos of guys welding thin gauge stuff with a 1.6mm arc electrode, it just takes time in gradually allowing the welds to cool. 
I want to be able to weld as a hobby, things such as car exhausts, gates, security doors, fixing trailers etc. when I've had shops make up exhaust systems for my cars, they've always used MIG + Gas, but i'm not prepared to go down that route due to costs, considering it's a hobby that I would do in my spare time and I'm also looking for something cheap, like basic basic entry level. 
where do I start? do I grab a buzzbox that can go as far down as 1.6mm rods on 40A or look for an Inverter welder because it's apparently easier to strike and arc and the rods aren't meant to stick (according to what I've read)? Or do I go for a gasless MIG? 
trouble with the basic entry level MIGs seems to be a 2 stage power setting - either 50 or 90A, is this going to limit the thickness of material I can weld to 2 gauges? 
I'm not expecting to produce award winning welds, so long as they're functional, then I can chip and grind them as required. 
What about safety gear? I'll be welding outside on concrete, I intend to buy a decent mask and long gloves and I know not to leave any skin exposed to do UV radiation. do I need anything else to get started? 
I'm open to all feedback, even "not worth your time or money, find something else to do"

----------


## phild01

> This is probably stuff I can google, but it seems there are some keen welders on here.

  I think the keen welders have felt _slag_ged off, and given us the _stick_. 
Have you considered TIG, as well as the MIG!

----------


## InsaneAsylum

> I think the keen welders have felt _slag_ged off, and given us the _stick_. 
> Have you considered TIG, as well as the MIG!

  hahahahha 
no consideration for TIG due to cost. honestly it would be amazing to fab up an intake or exhaust manifold in stainless 
like this  
but I'm honestly only interested in learning the skill and doing stuff like this

----------


## phild01

I have 120 MiniMig and it works well for me though it has no fan and it needs a rest at times.  That weld would be a higher powered unit than mine.  The thing that helped me a lot was getting a better auto helmet, which was still a cheapie.  I could use gas but for my use I just use a big roll of gasless wire I got off ebay.  Before that I spent a fortune buying little rolls from bunnings. 
Would love to be able to do welds like your first pic.

----------


## craka

What thickness steel do you want to weld up to?  That will give you and indication of what size welder you will want/need.  
Gassless MIG will leave more slag and last time I looked the flux core wire cost in comparison to what gas cost can be where near on par.  The plus side for using flux core is you can weld in outside in the breeze. 
Gas MIG will leave a cleaner weld but if there is more than a whif of breeze you will have trouble welding outside. You can get cylinders now where you don't have rental cost, but you lay down a deposit for bottle plus gas and just pay for the gas on a exchange next time (similar to swap n go with LPG bbq gas cyclinders). 
I've never tried stick welding, but from all reports I've heard it's probably the hardest to get a workable weld when you a learning, and I believe only quite experienced stick welders are able to do sheet metal with one. 
You can get welders  that are combination inverter welders, ie can allow you to do MIG or stick,  TIG or stick, hell some allow all three with one machine. 
An idea of your budget may allow members to give you an idea of what to get as well?

----------


## Marc

The idea that you learn with stick welding with an old buzz box by yourself, and then graduate to a MIG to then go to a TIG was valid 20 years ago. 
Today, my suggestion is go to your local TAFE college or whatever it is called in your state and do a welding course. You don't learn welding by buying a welder, much less if you don't even know which one you want. In your welding course the most frequent asked question is ... which welder should I buy? 
For argument sake since you asked, welding with an arc welder or stick welder, is not hard at all. When I started MIG welding I found the switch much more challenging and returning to stick welding with a DC 3 phase ancient welder a great satisfaction. 
But welding thin gage with a stick welder is like cracking an egg with a 4 pound hammer. can be done but it is the wrong tool.
Oxy Acetylene is the way to do that, or TIG or MIG
With the new electronic welders, you can have 3 in one and the prices are way down from what they used to be 10 years ago.  
What would you like to make? How about making your own boat? There is a company in Melbourne that runs boat building courses, welding aluminium with MIG. You learn to weld aluminium with a MIG and make your boat at the same time. Boat Building Course.

----------


## InsaneAsylum

Thanks for the advice. It sounds like the best thing for me to do is sign up to a welding basics TAFE course. 
The build your own boat idea sounds great, my son would probably love it, but I'd enjoy it more if it was build your own car  :Smilie: 
I'd love to build a kids billy cart out of steel tube and some random junk, with steering etc. using some basic engineering principles.

----------


## craka

> Thanks for the advice. It sounds like the best thing for me to do is sign up to a welding basics TAFE course. 
> The build your own boat idea sounds great, my son would probably love it, but I'd enjoy it more if it was build your own car 
> I'd love to build a kids billy cart out of steel tube and some random junk, with steering etc. using some basic engineering principles.

  There is also some quite good youtube videos with welders showing techniques,  that may go against the grain of some other opinions, but I do believe you can learn the basics yourself with some self learning using appropriate media.   FWIW I enquired about the course that Marc referred to, it cost around 1600bucks as he prickled my interest about it. 
I'm not saying for one minute that the course is not worth it however you could get a welder for that money and start practicing yourself with scrap.

----------


## cyclic

Buy an old arc welder with the accessories and practice on it.
I sold a set a while back for $40.
Welder, chipping hammer, rods, gloves, old helmet, and the buyer wanted to teach himself, so we cracked a beer and I gave him a quick lesson.
Needless to say he went away happy.
Second hand arc welders are worth nothing.
If you can find a copper wound one, they are worth more in scrap than what they sell for.
Local recycle/tip shop used to sell them for $10 but some dickhead complained they could be deadly because they were electrical, so they stopped selling anything electrical.
Only takes one idiot to spoil it for everyone.

----------


## Marc

It all depends of what you want to do and what do you think welding is. If you consider welding sticking two pieces of steel together and then grind the weld for good measure, then sure, go the backyard way. Cost almost nothing and who knows ... you may actually end up welding some decent beads.
If you have remotely an interest in metal work and want to be able to make a weld that is structural and that you know will not fail, take a course, any course is better than none. Even if it is a regular visit to your local welder. 
I agree that old welders are worth very little and they can work well. I argue the feasibility of learning by yourself.
Just my opinion

----------


## commodorenut

I'm a car guy, and I weld.  I learnt stick in a factory 20+ years ago, with some very good mentors, but we were welding 1/2" plate and other thick stuff.  
One particular guy was a whiz, and taught me a helluva lot, including how to braze.  Him and I became good mates, and he ended up living around the corner from me.
Funny thing was, he had no interest in cars, but I reckon he would have made a good old-school beater.  
I got pretty good with the stick, but the best I could do was about 3.2mm plate, as anything thinner was too easy to blow holes, so I used to braze the thinner stuff. 
I bought an old CigWeld MIG in the late 90s, but found it hard to master, but what I now know would have helped a lot.  Also got an SIP from a mate shortly after, which was easier to use - but again, I had issues with the right wire & a lack of the "inner circle" knowledge you learn from experience.  Lent both those welders to a mate, and he stuffed them. 
Sadly, my welding buddy passed away before I got into a project car around 2008 that needed a lot of welding on panels, and some heavier stuff like mounts & crossmembers.
The factory days were long behind me, so I had no-one to call on for help, and little info on youtube & the like. 
I ended up buying a "cheap" MIG from Sydney Tools, some Italian made thing, that you can run off a normal 10A 240V powerpoint.  It takes gasless wire, or you can also use gas.  I got the disposible bottles, which work OK if you use them a few weekends in a row, but don't leave it for 6 months & expect to have gas - it leaks out well before then, as the part that pierces the disposible top doesn't seal all that well.  So when I want to use gas, I normally save up all my welding jobs to do in one go. 
I practiced on old panels, and when I mastered it - which took a lot longer than I thought, but I wasn't blowing holes.  I ended up welding up dozens of holes in engine bay sheetmetal, doing rust repair strips, and a whole lot of thin work with that MIG and a disposible bottle.  It was all inside a garage, so there were no prevailing winds, but the gas flow seemed way less than the large MIG I use now, with a full-size bottle on it (3 phase too), so I doubt you could use it outdoors, even on a still day. 
But that little MIG would be ideal for doing exhaust pipes too, without blowing holes.  It was on it's limit getting decent penetration into 3.2mm plate on the crossmember, but doing short stitches & letting it cool worked well enough - and the gearbox hasn't moved in 8 years, despite sitting behind 5.6 litres of stroker V8. 
If you know someone experienced with a MIG, they will be able to teach you more from "do & learn" than any book or video ever can.  Things like listening for that "sausage sizzle" sound - the sound of perfect settings of amperage & wire feed speed - those things come from experience.  You'll do lots of machine guns & bird craps getting to that point, but once you find it, you'll get back to it again sooner.  Even weather changes can affect it - I used to mark the right settings for sheetmetal, but more humid days needed more grunt.  It's like setting up a spraygun - have practice parts to work on, to get your settings right.  I still do it to this day, and the last thing I welded was decent angle-iron, which is almost impossible to blow holes in. 
When you're not using it, take the wire out and put it in a sealed bag with one (or more) of those silica gel packs in with it - to stop it going rusty.  You learn pretty quick that rusty wire doesn't work too well.....but it's all experience. 
So from my point of view, buy yourself a cheap MIG and go for it.   
I ended up buy

----------

