# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  Looping

## Electron

Hi all.  As an ex Kiwi I've always wondered about the Australian practice of looping lighting circuits in the ceiling; here in Darwin it's the way it's always done but it's unknown in NZ, although I know of no reason why it's unknown over there.  From my own perspective I constantly curse ceiling looping when I'm trying to replace a light fitting that was never designed for terminating a bunch of cables into, especially when I always try to see the TPS sheathing go into the fitting as opposed to leaving unsheathed cores in the ceiling on a BP.  Sure, it can be a pain to loop at the switch too when there are 3 or 4 mechs on a plate but at least this is done standing on the floor at a reasonable working height, not perched on top of a ladder.  Ceiling looping also leaves the switch mech bereft of an earth and neutral, which means fitting any device on the wall that needs a neutral (like a timer) becomes a mission.  I'd be interested to see your comments on either practice, especially if you do it one way for a particular reason.

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## ScottH

Speaking for myself, if I'm doing a bare frame I'll loop at the switch, although I try to ensure i have a hard active in the roof space if possible, just to make life easier next time. Some brands of IXL, for example, need a hard active as well as switched. 
However, if rewiring a house, it is a lot easier to loop at the lights - many old houses have multiple noggins filling the wall, making it a long and involved job trying to get more than just twin active cables down. 
I remember asking about this at trade school - the answer i got was that it took less cable to run strappers to the switch, so purely a cost thing to loop at the lights.

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## peter321

Bringing ANE down the the switch and off to the next switch could make it quite crowded behind the switchplate, particularly with architrave switches. Also the lack of two loop terminals means a connector is needed for neutral or earth.
So looping in the roof is cheaper and easier....  until the influx of the modern light fitting that seem to only cater for the entry and termination of one flexible cord.  The basic battens and ceiling roses  were easy by comparison. I have just rewired my own house and installed many new lights  :Annoyed: - only consolation now is that the actual physical cable size is much smaller than it used to be.
Perhaps a  better way to wire a house would be looped in the roof with surface sockets, like in commercial and industrial installations.  At least those sockets have room for 4 cables and enough screw terminals for ANE + SW. 
Cheers

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