# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Fast Flashing Indicators - Vehicle Electrical

## Earlybird

I have a 2007 Outlander that is exhibiting some strange behaviour in relation to the indicators, which only started in the last 2 months - since towing a trailer around on holidays.  Here is some of the facts: 
  * they flash "fast" when turning left or right;
  * no bulbs are blown - all six on the car work, plus dash panel;
  * hazards flash at "normal" speed - all six flash;
  * when I connect the trailer or boat they flash at "normal" speed; 
If it wasn't for the 4th point above I would be learning towards the relay being faulty.  If it was only 1 side of the car doing it, I would think there was a blown bulb or a resistance problem. 
Prior to doing this behaviour it was working perfectly, except that on occasion it would flash fast when the trailer was hooked up.  Moving the connection (7-pin flat) between the car and trailer slightly, to create a better connection, would fix this. 
Any ideas or suggestions welcome.

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## chrisp

Check the bulbs again - and check that they are of the correct wattage.  Some flashers depend upon the bulb current.  If the current changes, the flash rate changes too.

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## Oldsaltoz

The flash speed in controlled by heating a by-metal strip, the click you hear is the strip as it heats and cools making and breaking the circuit. 
The faster the flash the more current is passing through the strip causing it to heat rapidly. 
This is most likely a bad earth and from what you descride it may well be in the trailer plug. 
This situation can also happen if a single globe of the wrong wattage has been used to replace an original. 
Hope this helps. 
Good luck.

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## Earlybird

Thanks for the responses, I will check the bulbs again.  They are all OEM bulbs and have never been replaced.  So I am fairly confident that the wattage of the bulb is not an issue.  This would also mean that I have 2 faulty bulbs, 1 on each side of the car - unfortunate coincidence. 
Another thought I had was to connect the trailer, so that it was flashing correctly, then remove each bulb one at a time.  If the removed bulb causes the flashing speed to increase, it should be ok.  If it doesn't increase and stays at the normal pace, then it is faulty or the connection is faulty. 
Does this logic sound feasible or a waste of time?

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## Oldsaltoz

I think my next test would be the earth connection/s

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## chrisp

It would probably be better to spend some time with a multimeter.  Check the voltage at each globe point (with the globe in place) - it should switch between 0V and very close to whatever the vehicles 12V system is at that time.  *- and -* 
check the voltage at the ground of the globe too.  It should be zero when the bulb is off, and (guessing) less than 100mV when the bulb is on.   BTW, you have to use a separate ground point for these measurements. 
It may be a bad ground connection (as one other poster has noted).  Sometimes bad ground on one bulb will result in current flowing through some other filaments causing them to glow slightly (for example, stop lights or tail lights coming on slightly when the indicators flash). 
As a long shot, what is the level of the vehicle's 12V system?  You may have a faulty alternator which is putting out too higher or too lower voltage.

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## Master Splinter

...or it could be that the solid state electronic control doodad (found in modern cars - not the nice, reliable, easy to diagnose old fashioned mechanical ones) wasn't up to the task of flashing (however many) watts worth of lights or switching (however many) amps to a low resistance LED on trailer/standard bulb combination and it has 'done things' to the control circuit and it is now going wonky at low loads. 
If the flasher unit is easy to access, I'd be real tempted just to swap it out!

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## mike_perth

Im with you Master Splinter - 2007 unlikely to be a metal strip - it will be electronic switching for sure.

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## yozza

I agree with the last two posters.  modern cars don't generally have the old style bi-metallic strip flasher can, they are either a solid state unit, or more likely, it will actually be part of the body systems computer, and the tick tick indicator noise is actually a tone generator, ie a sound that is generated to sound like an indicator.   
I would be having in a look in the owners manual to see if there are any specific conditions that are meant to be adhered to when connecting a trailer to the vehicle, that said generally the computers for the indicator system will be load sensative and automatically compensate for an increased load on the indicator system and adjust the flashing speed automatically, this is particulary relevent if the trailer plug on the car is original fitment.  The other thing that may be in the manual is that there may be a reset procedure. 
If all else fails check the wiring at the trailer plug, i doubt that it would be the globes that are faulty, or take the car to a dealer and they would be able to put the computer onto your car and test the system and possibly reset it.

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## Bloss

:Wat they said:  bi-metal type flashers haven't been used in yonks - the noise is the relay(s) clicking mostly. Earth can matter as can wrong wattage, but the easiest (if you can get to them!) would be to replace the flasher unit and/or the relay(s) as I reckon it'll be either or both.

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## Earlybird

Thanks for all of the responses, I will pull out the Fluke and get into it this weekend to see what I can find.   
I've been able to locate the Service Manual and Technical Information Manual, thanks to the Mitsubishi Forum and the Russian Outlander Club.  I've been looking through these manuals and cannot find any mention of the turn signal relay - even under Component Locations->Relays. 
I have found some info under Chassis Electrical->Headlamps, which is probably what I am after.  The more I read the more likely that a trip to the dealer is required.  With the diagnostic code they should be able to pinpoint the problem.

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## Earlybird

Back in May I had the car at an auto electrician to get an electric brake controller fitted.  I asked them to check the indicators at the same time - they suggested taking it to the dealer as the fault was most likely in the computer.  Well, I finally got around to taking the car to the Mitsubishi Dealer last week - Anderson's Auto City.  For $170, including diagnostics, they would replace my vehicle trailer plug - you know, the one fitted to the vehicle when you buy the car, which is still under warranty.  This is the same mob that put a 4 cylinder oil filter on my 6 cylinder car, which bottomed out before it sealed and therefore leaked oil on my garage floor.  To their surprise I declined their offer and paid $40 for the diagnostic - the indicator are working, just blinking fast.  The diagnostic identified that the reed switch magnet was missing from the plug cover.  I have my doubts as to if they even looked at the computer, rather it is probably a know fault to look to first.  I took the car straight to the auto electrician and asked him what he thought - he hadn't heard of the reed switch being used in Mitsubishi vehicles.  To test the theory we took a magnet and placed it near the plug, with the indicators on.  We could control the speed of the indicators with the magnet.  When I got home I glued a magnet from a kids toy into the cover and it all works as expected.  It seems that the reed switch is usually used on vehicles with reversing sensors, to turn them off when a trailer is fitted.  Trailer Plug link:  Products.  Problem Solved!!!

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## ringtail

Well there ya go. Ive never heard of a reed switch magnet but Ive been out of the motor trade for quite a while now. There were quite a few gremlins coming out with the euro cars and trailers in the early 2000's but everything Jap or Aussie tended to be ok. Makes sense to knock the reverse sensors out with the trailer on though. Ahh technology, gotta luv it.

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## takeonme

Hey all, first time poster.
I came here because I had exactly the same problem with my 2007 Outlander. It first happened right after I got the towbar installed, and more recently last weekend after I bottomed out a couple of times during a camping trip. 
Only symptom were fast blinking indicators, and after reading about this magent on the plug cap I went and had a look. Low and behold, the cap pin was bent and as a result the cap was stuck in the open position. I found a little square magent attached to the inside of the cap and when I forced it back to the closed position, indicators operated as per normal. So there's your answer! Didnt have the pliers handy so its just sitting there for now...I'l fix it next time I have the tool box out. 
Attached a photo to try and explain, the magnet is quite clear. No good with computers so whether the photo works or not I'll find out when I finish this post. 
Hope that helps!

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## chrisp

> Only symptom were fast blinking indicators, and after reading about this magnet on the plug cap I went and had a look. Low and behold, the cap pin was bent and as a result the cap was stuck in the open position. I found a little square magnet attached to the inside of the cap and when I forced it back to the closed position, indicators operated as per normal.

  Thanks for taking the time to confirm the problem - and the solution. 
I'm somewhat mystified as to what is going on here.  If the vehicle is new enough to have electronically controller flashing, it shouldn't be sensitive to the load on the indicators.  i.e. I would have thought that the flash rate would be the same whether the trailer is connected or not. 
However, there seems to be a sensing circuit (i.e. the magnet in the cover of the trailer connector) to change the flash rate when the trailer is connected.  This implies that the flashing rate is indeed sensitive to the load on the indicators. 
I thought that it was only some thermal flashers that where sensitive to the load on the indicators. 
Maybe I'm missing something?  BTW, I assume with the flap open and the trailer connected that the flash rate also returns to normal? 
The only thing I can think of at the moment, that this vehicle's flashing system (which I presume is electronic) is designed to behave like an old fashion thermal flasher and change the flash rate to indicate that a bulb has blown?

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## commodorenut

Chris - that's exactly how they behave - to mimic the old & well known fast-blink to indicate a blown bulb. 
The theory is that the additional load of the 21W trailer bulb will "balance" the system back to the regular flash rate, so that if the trailer blinker fails, it will give an audible indication to the driver. 
The reed switch in the trailer socket (tripped by the magnet in the socket's lid) is normally used to disable reverse sensors, but  some manufacturers have extended the use of this system to also trigger  other systems (like blown-bulb detection).  
When a car with reverse sensors is wired up for a trailer socket, there's your normal trailer wires, plus an additional plug (often a single wire) that trips the reverse sense disable - most OEM harnesses therefore have 2 plugs - the multi-pin trailer wiring, that we're all used to, and a smaller (1, 2 or 3 pin plug) for the additional functions.  The magnet & reed switch either make or break a circuit (depending on the vehicle make). 
Some vehicles take this reverse-sensor-disable to the next level - adding other features, such as this 'blown bulb' indicator experienced in the outlander. 
How I came across this, is my mate bought an outlander a few years back, and when he used my trailer - with LED lights, it did the fast flash trick.  It took us ages to work it out, before realising it was the reed switch.  As he didn't have reverse sensors on his car, we disconnected the additional plug in the rear harness, and it went back to normal with the trailer & it's LED lamps.

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## chrisp

> The reed switch in the trailer socket (tripped by the magnet in the socket's lid) is normally used to disable reverse sensors, but  some manufacturers have extended the use of this system to also trigger  other systems (like blown-bulb detection).

  Thanks for the detailed explanation, it all makes sense now.   I didn't think of the reverse sensors - it makes sense to disable them when a trailer is connected. 
It just goes to show how old (and low model) my car is - I don't have reverse sensors!

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