# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Custom STEP-UP Shower Base

## lolichka

Hi,
I hope you are well.  I have been doing some research on the best way to build a STEP-UP shower base in our GARAGE and I think all this research is getting the better of me. 
The entire bathroom will accommodate a Toilet, Vanity, Ducted Exhaust/light combo, and the shower (shower rail+curtain).  
The garage is separate from the house and has been built on a slab thus the bathroom sits on a slab. It was built some 30 years ago so no plumbing was laid. The plumber and electrician have run appropriate services as it's a fair way from the house.  We didnt go the route of using a jackhammer to chisel out and accommodate the plumbing, it came down to cost for us given how much we spent on getting services down there (around 8K). 
Its a small room about 1.5x1.8. A lot of the shower bases I have come across will be too large for the space once factoring in a toilet thus why we have opted to go for something custom made and to accommodate the plumbing. The entire room has been waterproofed using Crommelin Waterproofing, floors, walls, ceiling as per manuf inst. 
I have some questions relating to building a custom step up shower base and hope someone can offer some clarification please. 
My plan is to build the raised shower base out of hebbel blocks, fill that in with a cement mix taking into account the fall and letting that cure then waterproof and tile over. 
My questions are: 
1.      I looked at various methods and some sites use a plastic liner on top of the slab before building and filling in the raised shower base (some don't). Given that the cement slab has been waterproofed, does a plastic liner still need to be laid down? If so, how do I attach it to the slab? Is the thicker builders plastic ok or is it not required? 
2.      The raised slab base would be the height of the hebbel block which would be the 200mm mark.  The raised area no more than 800x800.  How long would it take to cure that area before waterproofing and tiling over? 
3.      For filling in the raised shower base, does anyone have any recommendations on a pre-mixed fill? Brand/Type 
4.      The walls have been lined in aquachek plasterboard (the blue stuff) and waterproofed (cromellin green stuff) as well as having the corners where the walls, and walls and floor, and walls and ceiling meet waterproofed using the bondbreaker polycloth.  Do I need to use the hebbel blocks against the plasterboard to build the raised box, or would it be ok to run the plastic liner if needed at the base up some length of the wall and then fill in with mortar mix?  What do I do against the plasterboard walls? 
5.      Can anyone shed any info on the slope required to the drainage please? 
Sorry if its a lot of questions but I really appreciate the advice.  
Many thanks  
Lol

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## Uncle Bob

I can't really help with your questions, but, I think if I was going down this route, I'd probably just get a stainless steel tray made to my dimensions.

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## phild01

I figure you are elevating the shower to get space for the shower trap! 
I think you have got it a bit wrong by having it all waterproofed already.  If you want to do it this way then I would build this cement based base over what is already waterproofed with a 1:60-1:80 fall and with a 100mm trap to where it is to go.  Wait the recommended time and apply the waterproofing and bond breakers to the new work and tile directly over.   I would consider cutting into the slab and try and keep it at existing floor level.  Surprising what those cheap rotary hammers can do.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hi,
> I hope you are well.  I have been doing some research on the best way to build a STEP-UP shower base in our GARAGE and I think all this research is getting the better of me. 
> The entire bathroom will accommodate a Toilet, Vanity, Ducted Exhaust/light combo, and the shower (shower rail+curtain).  
> The garage is separate from the house and has been built on a slab thus the bathroom sits on a slab. It was built some 30 years ago so no plumbing was laid. The plumber and electrician have run appropriate services as it's a fair way from the house.  We didnt go the route of using a jackhammer to chisel out and accommodate the plumbing, it came down to cost for us given how much we spent on getting services down there (around 8K). 
> Its a small room about 1.5x1.8. A lot of the shower bases I have come across will be too large for the space once factoring in a toilet thus why we have opted to go for something custom made and to accommodate the plumbing. The entire room has been waterproofed using Crommelin Waterproofing, floors, walls, ceiling as per manuf inst. 
> I have some questions relating to building a custom step up shower base and hope someone can offer some clarification please. 
> My plan is to build the raised shower base out of hebbel blocks, fill that in with a cement mix taking into account the fall and letting that cure then waterproof and tile over. 
> My questions are: 
> 1.      I looked at various methods and some sites use a plastic liner on top of the slab before building and filling in the raised shower base (some don't). Given that the cement slab has been waterproofed, does a plastic liner still need to be laid down? If so, how do I attach it to the slab? Is the thicker builders plastic ok or is it not required?  The builders plastic is used on some projects to make removal at a later date easy. In some cases it prevent water getting into the slab and causing other problems. I your case it's not an issue, if you think it will be taken out at some stage, use the plastic. 
> ...

  Go for it and Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Go for it and Good luck.

  .8m!?think he said 200mm :Smilie:

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## Oldsaltoz

> .8m!?think he said 200mm

  Yes he did, but he only needs to cover the depth of the pipe plus the fall and avoid a huge step up. 
Good Luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Yes he did, but he only needs to cover the depth of the pipe plus the fall and avoid a huge step up. 
> Good Luck.

  Absolutely agree. 
Another issue is the hob height.  A shower curtain will need a hob and this may end up being too high considering 190mm is the legal maximum height for a step. 
So is it possible to elbow the pipe connection to the outside and fit the trap there instead where there may be more room for it.  Even forget the hebel blocks and lay 150mm slab (or enough for the elbow and a waste) and form up a small hob at the same time.  I suspect it should be a 100mm pipe but what the heck, it isn't part of the house and it sounds like it is only a short run.

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## lolichka

Hi All, thanks for the replies. I am going to try and reply in the one thread!   

> I figure you are elevating the shower to get space for the shower trap! 
> I think you have got it a bit wrong by having it all waterproofed already. If you want to do it this way then I would build this cement based base over what is already waterproofed with a 1:60-1:80 fall and with a 100mm trap to where it is to go. Wait the recommended time and apply the waterproofing and bond breakers to the new work and tile directly over. I would consider cutting into the slab and try and keep it at existing floor level. Surprising what those cheap rotary hammers can do.

  Hi Phil, thanks for your reply. The intent was intended to waterproof over everything before building anything as well as factoring in the waterproofing over the step-up too, probably overkill but hey what's a little bit extra waterproof right, I had plenty left over and after all this is 'only' a garage...  If I had the time and patience (5 kids here under 6) I'd be smashing into the slab but alas with the 8k having chewed up a lot of funds (we had a kitchen installed too)  Im really only after a setup that will be easy to knock together with my time being of the essence. I get one day a week to do my work and hubby looks after the kids on 'my'day otherwise its work for him and school and kindy run for me during the week LOL!.  
I know there are other ways to go but this is what works for us best. The bathroom will have charcoal tiles and grout and highly polished egg shell type tiles with a cream grout tiled floor to ceiling. The step-up will be tiled as per the floor. Toilet/Vanity will be white and porcelain loo/vanity top and 2 pack base of vanity. Accessories will be chrome. A little bit overkill for the garage but hey, somewhere for the kids to go to the loo after their shenanigans outside and for hubby to have a shower after being a grease monkey  HA!.  
With the 100mm trap, is that standard or can a lesser diameter trap be used?  I have no idea what a rotary hammer is, will have to google that one LOL!     

> Absolutely agree. 
> Another issue is the hob height. A shower curtain will need a hob and this may end up being too high considering 190mm is the legal maximum height for a step. 
> So is it possible to elbow the pipe connection to the outside and fit the trap there instead where there may be more room for it. Even forget the hebel blocks and lay 150mm slab (or enough for the elbow and a waste) and form up a small hob at the same time. I suspect it should be a 100mm pipe but what the heck, it isn't part of the house and it sounds like it is only a short run.

  Thanks for the clarification on that, I was factoring in the adhesive for the block perhaps I can cut this down once I know the height the plumber will fit the waste/elbow/trap in at but hey whats 10mm!!  What do you mean by only a short run? Is that the plumbing?  Im not also following you on the pipe connection to the outside and fitting the trap there instead. The bathroom is situated on the corner of the garage to make life easier for services (Elec HWS/Water) to run there and make life easier for the plumbing/waste aspects of the loo/vanity/shower etc I was looking at a rear waste outlet but if I am building my own step-up, I guess thats negated as it could be centered??   
Of the 190mm being the legal maximum height for a step-up is that for a house or a garage? I dont know if such a difference exists in any building code within VIC?   

> Points noted below

  Thanks so much for your reply.   
1.    There will be no need to remove this anytime soon so I guess no need for the plastic.
2.    a.  Correct, laying on the existing slab. The plumber is coming back and will be laying the pipes/elbow once he has cut out through the WRC boards so I will be able to ascertain height once thats done. 
b. When you mention a one in 60 fall, what do you mean by that? Sorry. Is that a percentage down from the top of the drain cover or mm or cm? or something else?
C. Is it overkill to use the bondbreaker on the outside of the hebbel as well as the inside as I was planning on doing both + waterproofing on inside/out of step-up?
3.    Understood, much like icing a cake!
4.    Thanks for the steps, the walls have already been waterproofed with the green stuff from floor to ceiling and from memory they are about 2100 high or more
5.    Another question, is there any value in using the bondbreaker around the raw edge of the cutout for the exhaust/light as I have just applied the waterproof membrane to the entire ceiling and a small part to the back of the plasterboard inside the cavity and edge cutout if that makes sense?
6.    What is a wall floor flashing?  Is that something applied on the outside of the hob?  I was going to apply the liquid membrane to the external of the step up hebbel base as well as apply the bondbreaker polycloth to the exterior (in addition to the interior) or is this something not needed and the wall floor flashing be suffice?  
Also, would it matter that there is an  S in front of the He?? LOL  :Redface: p 
Thanks again for all the replies they are such a huge help! I'm feeling more educated and confident now  :Redface: D 
Cheers,
Lol

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## phild01

Sorry, funny when I was writing "he" I had a nagging thought that I might need to write "she". 
Look, that was a lot of stuff you just wrote so for the moment I will be brief and re-read later. 
Ok, corner of garage, great.  When your plumber comes ask him/her if s/he can keep his/her shower drainage as low as possible in the garage and if s/he is ok using 50mm pipe for this.  Then expressly ask if the trap can be installed immediately outside the garage.  Have the shower waste closer to the outside wall so as to keep the drainage pipe as low as possible. 
Now you will see what you have to work with regarding heights and it is important that your plumber indicates the lowest possible finished waste height as this will dictate the concrete level you pour in and also the hebel block height. As you want to use hebel, I believe this is going to be your hob on 2 sides.  I suggest when you know the waste height, add roughly 10mm (for the approx fall) and 40mm for hob height (so shower curtain tucks inside it). If this works out around 150mm then I suggest cutting your hebel blocks down to this size to reduce the step-up from being 200mm (hebel is easy to cut with a cheap hand saw).  The cut can be a little uneven as tiling will help sort it out. 
Set your hebel blocks for the two sides you need to form the square to the corner.  So you now have a square formed on two sides with hebel (adhesively held in place) and the other two sides by the walls of the corner.  You also have your plumbing in place.  Sounds like you waterproofed your ceiling as well, so lets keep the theme going and get some fuller 302 or a polyurethane sealant and apply around the drain pipe that is going through the wall.  Hope your plumber is neat and made it a tight fit.  Some of this around the hebel to wall junctions might be good too. 
Now about fall, 1:60 to 1:80 means for every 60mm of horizontal travel you need 1mm of vertical fall.  Same for 80.  When I suggested 10mm before I was allowing this for around 600mm of travel from the wall to the waste outlet. When the plumber is done you can fairly work out what dimension you need as a minimum. Measure from the farthest point from the waste to a hebel block being likely the furthest position.  Scribe or draw a level line around the face of the wall and blocks to get your concrete level. It should be at least 40mm below the top of the hebel. 
My suggestion is use bags of concrete mix and patiently mix a dryer batch rather than wet and sloppy.  With care you can pour it in around up to the scribe mark and down to your approx waste height.  Actually this bit gets hard, can you get a tiler to do the tiling?  If so concrete 20mm below finished waste height and let him/her screed and tile the rest.  I am sure someone will chime in about puddle flanges, but I think this will adversely affect step up heights, it is only the garage, you have everything waterproofed and we have successfully survived without puddle flanges for a very long time, but they do have their place in life.  The plumber should be able to leave you a waste to slip into the vertical drainage pipe.  If you choose to get a tiler in, concrete as suggested around the drainage pipe.  Your waterproofing container will have suggested dryout times for fresh concrete.  Wait as long as you can, then cut the pipe flush level with the concrete and with special tape as you used in the wall floor corners, run strips of it into the pipe with the waterproofing compound when you waterproof the rest of the shower and hebel bricks doing the bond breaker thing again.  But make sure the waste will still slip in.  So your concrete should finish about 70mm below the top of the hebel block and 30mm below the scribed mark.
Generally when doing pipework in concrete you use 100mm pipe, but I reckon 50mm for what you are doing as it should be a short run from shower waste to outside world.
A rotary hammer drill is like a mini jackhammer.
Need a break and will check in again later, let me know if this makes sense or if I got the scenario wrong.
cheers and good luck

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## Oldsaltoz

Thanks so much for your reply.   
1.    There will be no need to remove this any time soon so I guess no need for the plastic.
2.    a.  Correct, laying on the existing slab. The plumber is coming  back and will be laying the pipes/elbow once he has cut out through the  WRC boards so I will be able to ascertain height once thats done. 
b. When you mention a one in 60 fall, what do you mean by that? Sorry.  Is that a percentage down from the top of the drain cover or mm or cm?  or something else?  Working from the corners, drop down one mm for every 60 mm working towards the waste outlet. 
C. Is it overkill to use the bondbreaker on the outside of the hebbel as  well as the inside as I was planning on doing both + waterproofing on  inside/out of step-up?  Bond breakers are needed on the wall to floor joint on the inside of the shower only. 
3.    Understood, much like icing a cake!
4.    Thanks for the steps, the walls have already been waterproofed  with the green stuff from floor to ceiling and from memory they are  about 2100 high or more
5.    Another question, is there any value in using the bondbreaker  around the raw edge of the cutout for the exhaust/light as I have just  applied the waterproof membrane to the entire ceiling and a small part  to the back of the plasterboard inside the cavity and edge cutout if  that makes sense?  Bond Breakers are only to allow movement in critical areas and would not be required around the cut in the ceiling, they would also be bulky in this application and provide no extra strength or flexibility. 
6.    What is a wall floor flashing?  Is that something applied on the  outside of the hob?  I was going to apply the liquid membrane to the  external of the step up hebbel base as well as apply the bond breaker  polycloth to the exterior (in addition to the interior) or is this  something not needed and the wall floor flashing be suffice?  Wall to floor flashing is a strip of waterproofing that covers the wall to floor joint to prevent water getting outside the wet room. A bond breaker is not required and would make tiling difficult. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## lolichka

Hi there,
thanks so much for the clarification on the fall. It all makes sense to me now. I have the plumber coming back this week to finish off so I can then start the shower/tiling.  
Thanks too Phild01, 50mm has been used for the waste (shower,vanity,kitchen) I appreciate the steps with the hebbel blocks.  Plumbing externally, everything is set as legally allowed, I have a meticulous plumber  :Redface: D 
Thanks again,     

> Thanks so much for your reply.   
> 1.    There will be no need to remove this any time soon so I guess no need for the plastic.
> 2.    a.  Correct, laying on the existing slab. The plumber is coming  back and will be laying the pipes/elbow once he has cut out through the  WRC boards so I will be able to ascertain height once thats done. 
> b. When you mention a one in 60 fall, what do you mean by that? Sorry.  Is that a percentage down from the top of the drain cover or mm or cm?  or something else?  Working from the corners, drop down one mm for every 60 mm working towards the waste outlet. 
> C. Is it overkill to use the bondbreaker on the outside of the hebbel as  well as the inside as I was planning on doing both + waterproofing on  inside/out of step-up?  Bond breakers are needed on the wall to floor joint on the inside of the shower only. 
> 3.    Understood, much like icing a cake!
> 4.    Thanks for the steps, the walls have already been waterproofed  with the green stuff from floor to ceiling and from memory they are  about 2100 high or more
> 5.    Another question, is there any value in using the bondbreaker  around the raw edge of the cutout for the exhaust/light as I have just  applied the waterproof membrane to the entire ceiling and a small part  to the back of the plasterboard inside the cavity and edge cutout if  that makes sense?  Bond Breakers are only to allow movement in critical areas and would not be required around the cut in the ceiling, they would also be bulky in this application and provide no extra strength or flexibility. 
> 6.    What is a wall floor flashing?  Is that something applied on the  outside of the hob?  I was going to apply the liquid membrane to the  external of the step up hebbel base as well as apply the bond breaker  polycloth to the exterior (in addition to the interior) or is this  something not needed and the wall floor flashing be suffice?  Wall to floor flashing is a strip of waterproofing that covers the wall to floor joint to prevent water getting outside the wet room. A bond breaker is not required and would make tiling difficult. 
> Good luck.

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## phild01

No worries, maybe progress pics if you need more help :Smilie:

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## lolichka

> No worries, maybe progress pics if you need more help

  Okidoki, it's been a while... Hi all.... much has happened.... we got screwed over by our last plumber - long story and us being none-the-wiser until it came time to ask him to finish his work we were advised he had wound up his business and would honour coming out.... 3 weeks of that went by, phone calls and broken promises on his part so we psd him off - ugh!! so... we engaged a new one - an absolute breath of fresh air.... I am at the stage now of doing the shower step up.... this is what I have to work with and the best that was able to be done.   
The drainage inclusive of the grate will be about the same height of the hebel block once tiled.... any suggestions on what to use here for infil.... I have only about a week for things to cure at this depth.... 
any suggestions please? 
I am after something that will be a rapid set... I know that there is rapid set concrete... the easier the better, say out of a pre-mix bag - any issues with using this, waterproofing and tiling over? 
Pro's / cons' but don't shoot me down.... after all.... I keep reminding myself that it is a garage... but look at the bathroom in the garage and think it's better than what's in the existing house LOL (a mental note to myself too... very time consuming breaking up tiles individually by hand to get the border look happening, don't think I will repeat that one in a hurry LOL!!) 
I sincerely appreciate the assistance 
Many Thanks, Lollka

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## Oldsaltoz

I am at the stage now of doing the shower step up.... this is what I have to work with and the best that was able to be done.   
The drainage inclusive of the grate will be about the same height of the hebel block once tiled.     
The pipe the puddle flange is sitting in needs to be cut flush with the shower base, then a small recess ground inro the base and the puddle flange installed just a few mm below the base level. 
Then stick the hebel stone down and waterproof the lot including the top and outside of the hebel. 
If you need the screed to cure fast, use a self levelling compond with clan clay free (Washed sand) added, and run a fan on it overnight. 
The fall between the inside of the hebel to the puddle flange should be around one in 80. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## lolichka

Hi,
thanks for the reply.  I understood that one  :Redface: D 
When it comes to tiling tho... I have a nice solid metal shiny grate that is square that will sit in the middle of that puddle flange.  Do I tile up-to the edge of the square grate (leaving some room for grout), or, do I tile underneath the grate so that the grate ends up sitting on the tiles and silicon that in and onto the tiles?.   
It may be a personal preference thing, I am not sure thus why the question.  
Appreciate the help  :Redface: D 
Thanks,    

> I am at the stage now of doing the shower step up.... this is what I have to work with and the best that was able to be done.   
> The drainage inclusive of the grate will be about the same height of the hebel block once tiled. 
> The pipe the puddle flange is sitting in needs to be cut flush with the shower base, then a small recess ground inro the base and the puddle flange installed just a few mm below the base level. 
> Then stick the hebel stone down and waterproof the lot including the top and outside of the hebel. 
> If you need the screed to cure fast, use a self levelling compond with clan clay free (Washed sand) added, and run a fan on it overnight. 
> The fall between the inside of the hebel to the puddle flange should be around one in 80. 
> Good luck.

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## Oldsaltoz

The puddle flange should have an insert, this has two functions.
The insert can be slid up and down to adjust the height, very handy when laying the screed. 
It also ensures any water that passes through the grout into the screed is drained away. 
The insert can be adjusted to set the waste grate level with the tiles as is normal practice. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

Is it possible to infill below hebel height and have the hebel form the outside perimeter hob?  Looks like a fair bit to infill!  BTW, the cromellin green tiles look real funky :Biggrin:

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## Oldsaltoz

> Is it possible to infill below hebel height and have the hebel form the outside perimeter hob?  Looks like a fair bit to infill!  BTW, the cromellin green tiles look real funky

  Normal practice is to start at the waste 50mm thick screed (any less and it's prone to cracking) or use a levelling compound and start with the flange 5 mm above base. 
The fall from the inside of the hob to the top of the flange should be around 80 to one. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Normal practice is to start at the waste 50mm thick screed (any less and it's prone to cracking) or use a levelling compound and start with the flange 5 mm above base. 
> The fall from the inside of the hob to the top of the flange should be around 80 to one. 
> Good luck.

  It's on concrete isn't it.  The screed doesn't need to be so thick.  Anyway, the lowest possible waste height could dictate the screed.  I would be worried about the eventual hob being higher than the hebel blocks.
Before waterproofing, you will need to fill the void and I suggest the eventual screed.  Sounds like you are in a hurry now but I don't know about using quick set concrete.  I wouldn't.  Also you can't mix quick set like normal concrete.

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## lolichka

Funnily enuf, each of our 5 kids are colour coordinated... you can imagine the sheer delight of a 4 year old when I showed him 'the green room' LOL!!!  No tiles - just me marking... but yeah, kinda funky alright - thank goodness it's not the tile colour!! 
Oldsaltoz,
I bought lots of these hebel blocks, and they have done my head in trying to figure out configurations of best laying them to be far enough away from the flange to factor in fall etc... my intent was to set up some sort of grid and infill with some form of screed and tile sloping towards the flange with either some mosaic tiles or hand cutting them in the charcoal as I did around the border for the top...  the base has really got the better of me... and in all honesty I would like to use the hebel blocks as much as possible and in fill 'trenches' so to speak with screed... does that make sense? 
I can take a better photo tomorrow of my idiosyncratic rational... too late for my brain to be thinking straight... I think I pulled a word ouf of my vocabulary and dusted a cobwebb off out of the ol brain respository LOL! 
But hey, any advice... as usual much appreciated  :Redface: D        

> Normal practice is to start at the waste 50mm thick screed (any less and it's prone to cracking) or use a levelling compound and start with the flange 5 mm above base. 
> The fall from the inside of the hob to the top of the flange should be around 80 to one. 
> Good luck.

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## lolichka

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you all... 
I've got it sorted now...thanks so much for the input.  Next photo will most likely be of this finished....  yeee haaaaa  :2thumbsup:

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