# Forum Home Renovation Flooring  to sand or not to sand...?

## teela001

We are thinking of sanding our floorboards in our 60's built house. I hate carpet and I want something that will tolerate dogs and other pets. I love the look of wood and have always wanted polished floorboards. But the bloke we got in to give us a quote put me off by telling me that we need to pull up the carpet 1 week before to let the floor breath. then he told me we need to use a solvent base sealer and it would take a while for the smell to disappear. I really would prefer to use some sort of water based product that doesn't stink so much. Has anyone used a water based varnish, and how has it been for you? I don't mind so much if it's not really shiny, but I want something fairly hard wearing.

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## Moondog55

Don't sand at all
Don't sand
The floorboards are probably only 19mm thick and they need at least 6mm removed to get a good finish and IMO this leaves the boards far too thin and too weak.
We have considered this and given the high cost of the sanding and sealing process have decised to fit floating floors instead. It works out about the same cost and is easier and quicker with much less mess and dust. it is probably the mess; dust and inconvenience that is swaying us

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## teela001

oh stoppit Moondog...I didn't even think of that. Now I'm more stressed lol.  We have had two quotes and none of the blokes mentioned thickness of boards. 
The main issue for me (other than mess, dust and inconvenience) was the varnish, solvent v's water based. My sister had hers done and used water based, not so shiny but looks good and she said it dried quicker and almost no smell. I really don't want to use a really toxic, smelly solvent varnish as my daughter has allergies. I really want to do my homework on this as it's not cheap. We spent yesterday morning looking at timber floating floors and some of the fake wood type that you lay down in strips, something I would never have considered but it looked so real. I said to the sales rep in the store that I wanted something to look like timber floorboards and he said to me if I already had timber floorboards I was crazy not to have them sanded. He may have done himself out of a sale there as I started having second thoughts about the floating floors.

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## teela001

I'm still thinking about this....
I've had 2 quotes to do my floors...1 of the quotes was $1000 cheaper than the other, but the cheaper bloke wont get back to me...and the other bloke wont drop his quote. Now if I was in a city I would simply ring another contractor but I live in a large country town and the 2 quotes I had was the total of contractors in this area that do floor sanding. So I've run out of options here...so it's either floating floors (easy to lay ourselves) or hire all the sanding equipment from Bunnings and do it ourselves. Hiring others to do our renovating isn't our usual style, we do almost everything ourselves. Now I can see why...hiring others is just a hassle. Reason I decided to pay someone else for this particular job was because we both have bad backs. But now that we seem to be running out of options I've pulled the idea of doing it ourselves back out of mothballs. So has anyone else tackled sanding floorbards themselves? What are your experiences? Is it really that hard on the old back? We have about 45 square meters so quite a big job.

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## chalkyt

DIY floating floors are fairly easy to do and you can do one section or room at a time at your own pace (or even do one room as a trial). If you aren't too fussed about colour (after all you are stuck with what you have now) you can sometimes find sales of surplus or slow moving stock at the right price. Sanding = dust, smell, repairs (if your boards are damaged or ugly), etc. Have you got a price for laying a floating floor? Most stockists have a tame layer.

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## Dusty

> Don't sand at all
> Don't sand The floorboards are probably only 19mm thick and they need at least 6mm removed to get a good finish and IMO this leaves the boards far too thin and too weak.*Really???*  We have considered this and given the high cost of the sanding and sealing process have decised to fit floating floors instead. *Really????*   It works out about the same cost *Really???*  
> and is easier and quicker with much less mess and dust. *This is true* it is probably the mess; dust and inconvenience that is swaying us

  Interesting.

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## namtrak

Apologies Moondog, but I think what Dusty is trying to say is that everything you have said is complete bunkum. 
1.  We just just sanded the floor at Old Parliament House and the before and after caliper readings show less than 1mm was removed.  Most guys wouldnt remove 2mm of floor 
2. Let the wood breathe?  Never heard of that one before 
3. No you dont need to use a solvent based sealer, that is generally the cheaper option but there are water based sealers (Bona) and Hardwax Oils (Treatex) which will also do the job without the smell 
4. Bona Traffic has a satin, Bona Mega comes in gloss.  Putting more coats of the satin product on increases the lustre of the floor as well. 
5.  Most guys would be using vacuumed machines with very minor amounts of dusts 
6. The cost of floating floors supplied and installed would be at the cheapest end around 60 per sqm.  The average floor guy comes in at between 30 and 40 per sqm 
Cheers   

> Don't sand at all
> Don't sand
> The floorboards are probably only 19mm thick and they need at least 6mm removed to get a good finish and IMO this leaves the boards far too thin and too weak.
> We have considered this and given the high cost of the sanding and sealing process have decised to fit floating floors instead. It works out about the same cost and is easier and quicker with much less mess and dust. it is probably the mess; dust and inconvenience that is swaying us

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## Gaza

Just lay new carpet

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## teela001

Carpet eeeeeeeeeeew I hate carpet

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## Moondog55

Then all I can say is that the technologies must have improved a 110005% since the last job I saw done, which removed MORE than 6mm from an old Baltic pine floor and where the owners were removing dust for at least 3 months after the job was finished.
As far as i am concerned floor sanding is not a DIY suitable job, it is far too easy to "Stuff up"
I stand by my "Cheaper" remarks, we already bought the flooring at clearance prices; NO-ONE pays full price if the product can be obtained at clearance prices. Floating floors are very much DIY so the labour saving alone has a huge bearing on cost.
I am prejudiced against sanding old floors; I have seen far more bad jobs than good ones when looking at houses for sale
teela we hate carpet as well

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## Black Cat

> 2. Let the wood breathe?  Never heard of that one before

  I am sure the heritage professional overseeing the work you are presently doing would be more than happy to explain to you the error of your ways ...

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## dazza71

Ask how much to just sand the floor-no finish! Then apply Osmo hard wax oil yourself!

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## teela001

Thanks Dazza, I just looked at the website for this product. Although not water based it is environmentally friendly and not bad for human (and pets) health, non toxic, low smelling. Wow I think it's what I'm looking for. Have you used this product yourself? Wondering if I can get it at my local Bunnings store? The idea of getting just the sanding done was something I was thinking of doing, but the dearer of the two quoters wont do this and the cheaper quoter still hasn't got back to me. So still thinking of doing it ourselves...how hard can it be!!! We've done so much renovating with help from no-one why let a mere 45 square meters of floor beat us...
Next step will be to check out what equipment I'll need to hire from Bunnings, do I need a belt floor sander and a edge sander?....anyone?

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## dazza71

Have used Osmo both in OZ & UK. Put it on really thin, it's pretty pricey but user friendly. Without seeing floors  it's hard to give advice, but most t&g floors are usually quite flat. My suggestion is try get your hands on a rotary sander/polisher(polivac or canterbury). You can hire or even buy a old one pretty cheap. They are excellent machines to have, sanding or cleaning decks, cleaning concrete or sanding & buffing floors. If floor is reasonable you would start on a 60 grit disc and go up to 100grit. You'll have a good laugh getting a handle on using it at first but once mastered you have a sander and edger in one. 
If you give drum sanding the floor a go-expect those quotes to double and you run the risk of seriously damaging your floor.
Here's a link to the sort of machine I mean but you will be amazed how many people have something similar collecting dust when you could create dust with it.If you find a old one without a vac, it's easy enough to attach a skirt and vac hose. Good Luck Floor sander | eBay

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## JBAG

Has anyone noticed that of all the topics of renovation, floor sanding seems to have the most varying opinions about the difficulty of DIY???
I too want to give it a go but there don't seem to any simple answers.
 Also I've noticed a lot of difference in the "it costs the same to get a pro to do it" argument and wether or not you can do one or two rooms at a time to spread the cost.

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## Dusty

JBAG, 
Out of many of the DIY project floor sanding and polishing is probably not the most difficult of jobs, nor the hardest to achieve some sort of positive result, but it's certainly one of the most difficult to replicate what a professional should be able to do for you. 
Here's why.  
The hire equipment is OK, but it ain't nothin' on what the contractors use. The hire stuff is awkward to use, is often unbalanced and would require a good week of learning how to use it before letting yourself loose on your own floor. Ten minutes of practice doesn't really cut it. 
The use of the sandpaper is also important, knowing what grit to start with, knowing when the paper you are using has lost it's edge and knowing which papers to follow up with to achieve the best results takes a lot of trail and error and a few years of experience. 
Time. Many DIYer's try and do their job in a weekend or at best a long weekend, yet when they hire a professional it may take _him_ four to five days to sand and finish the same sized area. Good work takes time and care. 
The coatings. The cost for a DIYer buying from a paint supply or large hardware chain is much, much more than what the guys in the trade are paying from dedicated flooring supply companies. I pay a little over $8 bucks a litre for top brand name two pac polyurethane. Doing it yourself can often push those prices out to over $28 per litre. So for me to do three coats of six litres of polyurethane I'm looking at $144. For someone relying on a paint shop, or hardware it blows out to $504.  A significant difference. Then we have rollers and brushes, cleaning and soaking solvents, cut back paper, filler/putty. Again, we buy these things in bulk at a much cheaper rate than the local stores. 
Add all that together and you can get a fair idea of the difference between having a go yourself and hiring a tradesmen. I'm all for people having a crack at it and have talked many a good man through the process over the phone during weekends - but, at the end of the day _most_ blokes who do it themselves don't go back for seconds, as they simply weren't happy enough with their results for the money and time spent. 
There, perhaps that might help.

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## ringtail

I just dont see what the drama is. A few grand for a professional job, dustless (almost) sanding and quality product on the floor that brings out the beauty of the timber - as opposed to all the BS of DIY. Its a no brainer for me. Leave it the pros.

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## Bruiser

I had mine done - the guy was ums and ahs until I told him I was going away for a week.  Bingo, job done.  Beautifully.  I recall getting home and texting the guy a big thank you as I transferred about 2.5k into his account.  The smell goes away with two pack stuff - it cures, rather than dry, similar to concrete.  I also accidentally hit it with a hammer - dented, but retained the finish.  Ridgeback Shepherd couldn't scratch it either. 
Keep your eye on the result, which will be awesome if you let a pro take your breath away!

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## teela001

Well here I am still thinking of giving it a go myself. Dazza are you a professional floor person or just a DIYer who gave it a go? I had a looksy in Bunnings today, couldn't find the Osmo wax...I may have to buy on-line. I also sussed out the floor sanding equipment for hire. And yeah JBAG yes I've read and heard both horror stories of floor sanding and others who said it was fairly easy.
Ringtail I would like to leave it to the pros but we have only 2 who do it here...one wont get back to me and the other bloke wants an extra $1000....if it was down to a coupla hundred difference I'd consider him, but a $1000 is a hell of a lot of money to me.
I've been reading lots and watching you tube videos, they seem to mention hardwood floors a lot and I know mine are pine...that's a soft wood isn't it? Does it make any difference?

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## dazza71

20yrs too long polishing boards Teela. 
Our trade is pretty much governed by sqm rate- WA can range from $30-$40per sqm. Without knowing any paticulars of the job,floor condition,location etc... you know a ball park figure for your 45sqm. Pine is a softwood and more detail to fine sanding is required. If it seems a lot to spend, you have to realize that a good sander working alone would get a coat of any product on in a day-Wow $1000 bucks a day-NO-he comes back the next day,cut the floor back and apply another coat. Take out materiels,insurance$$$$ and expenses over 2days the sander presents your floor with everything crossed that your impressed with maybe $400 per day. I've heard every "what about this"
Brusier and Dusty have great points but the obvious question is "if you want WOW look at that floor?"=get in the pro and protect it. Whereas "it's a floor,it's practical and once all the furniture is in you only see 10%"= give it a crack yourself by trying a small area.
If your concerned at all about what people think or say-show them the floorboards that lead to the front door. People walk all over my work every day, could be worse, a plumbers work gets ???????

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## teela001

Thanks Dazza...I've never been a fussy type so I think I'll most likely be happy with a DIY job. I really just want the carpet gone as it's a really light colour and I'm not a fan of carpets anyway no matter what colour. But I do however love scatter rugs, and as you say we'll only see a small percentage anyway. I will have my dogs running about all over it so it will most likely get all scratched up pretty soon, if I was to have a top notch job done at the cost of $2000 I'd just be paranoid and might make my poor doggies wear socks every time they come in.

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## teela001

Well as you may have guessed I pretty much have made the decision to do the floors ourselves. Aside from my post here I've also gone back 12 pages in this section and read every post that has anything to do with floorboards, and the process of sanding and polishing them. There are both ups and downs to doing ourselves but the info on here is worth it weight in gold.  
It wont be until late October as we've got some other jobs that need finishing first, and I want to wait for the weather to warm up a bit more too. I will come back in here when the job is complete and let you know how it goes...for anyone who might be contemplating doing their own floors.
I'll take a few photo's and post them on here before and after the job is complete. Thanks for all the replies.

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## namtrak

> I am sure the heritage professional overseeing the work you are presently doing would be more than happy to explain to you the error of your ways ...

  Feel free to clarify this, I can understand how we let new boards acclimatise before we install them but I havent heard of letting old boards breathe.  A quick check of the NSW heritage site does refer to letting stone buildings breathe, but there is not reference to floor boards?

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## dazza71

Good Luck!
A good tip when sanding timber,when you think you are finished-wipe your work with a damp cloth to lift the grain and fine sand again!

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## Dusty

Let it breathe??  Seems we're turning into a wine forum.

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## goldie1

I let my floors breathe! The bloke who I bought it off had two large dogs who lived indoors and used it as a toilet  :Rolleyes:

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## ringtail

Geez, that would give them a " fruity nose " with "musty overtones"  :Biggrin:

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## piscean

dazza have you used treatex? I've seen it mentioned quite a bit but then you bring up osmo so I'm wondering how the two compare if you know? 
One of the differences I can see between them from doing a bit of googling is that osmo uses parafin and treatex uses beeswax? I've seen some pics of  the treatex and it does look good but have so far never heard of the osmo  :Confused:  
I guess I'm wondering if there's much difference between the hardwax oils or if they are much of a muchness

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## dazza71

I have used treatex but mainly because its been specified. To be honest-not a big fan but add the hardener and it becomes a great product.
By doing that it takes the "Greenpeace" effect away coz it stinks and becomes basically Estapol. 
Floors will always scratch and scuff, I always thought hardwax oils could be buffed but yet to find one. I do Hi-spec homes and the best,natural finish I have worked with is sealing the timber floor with any one of a hundred different products and applying micro-crystalite wax. They use this wax on bronze and copper to protect from the elements(important to seal first tho).

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## Dusty

Sounds interesting Dazza.
Can you fill us in a bit more regarding the Microcrystalite wax, as in how you apply it, how long it's supposed to last, that sort of thing. 
Got any photos of it, at all??

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## dazza71

I seal floor with Tobys Barrier seal, apply wax by Pafuki trowel or rag-buff with a bristle pad on the rotary or fine red pad. It's much the same application as Synteko solid/natural. The more coats=the more protection but usually give them a buff every year which is good for business. But don't ever wax without sealer. I know i've already said it but I done a job which was 240sqm of 300mm Burmese Teak-$$$$$$$ and the owner told the designer she didn't want it sealed before wax.Any moisture lifts the grain under the wax and goes-advantage was she knew which kid had been in pool or shower but knew where hubby kept putting his beer down. Residential - Granwood Flooring

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## teela001

Well I should be an expert on floor sanding by now as in my spare time I've read back 20 pages and looked at every floor-sanding post. But I cant find an answer to a question about darkening of the floors as everyone seems to want them to stay on the lighter side. I've decided that the finish I want to use is one of the following - Cabots waterbased polyurethane or Bona mega satin, I like the sound of the Osmo wax but can't find it anywhere. I really would like my floor to darken a little as I don't like the look of light colour floor (radiata pine). From what I've read it seems every product will darken over time, which for me is good news, but which water based product will darken the floor the most and the quickest? I could probably stain the floors first but don't want to add more smelly chemicals if I can avoid it.

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## Dusty

That is some gorgeous work, right there Dazza71. 
I've seen many a floor in my time and have to tell you a heck of a lot of them could only be described as shi...er,um, less than brilliant. The galleries on your web-site, however, are not. 
My old boss (some time ago now) was very big on wax finishes, but, sadly, not long before I started working for him he had stopped brothering to use wax finishes. So, consequently, I never learned anything about how to do it. It always sounded fascinating whenever he spoke about it though. 
Beautiful web-site, too, by the way.
Keep up the good work.  

> I seal floor with Tobys Barrier seal, apply wax by Pafuki trowel or rag-buff with a bristle pad on the rotary or fine red pad. It's much the same application as Synteko solid/natural. The more coats=the more protection but usually give them a buff every year which is good for business. But don't ever wax without sealer. I know i've already said it but I done a job which was 240sqm of 300mm Burmese Teak-$$$$$$$ and the owner told the designer she didn't want it sealed before wax.Any moisture lifts the grain under the wax and goes-advantage was she knew which kid had been in pool or shower but knew where hubby kept putting his beer down. Residential - Granwood Flooring

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## piscean

> Floors will always scratch and scuff, I always thought hardwax oils could be buffed but yet to find one.

  so if a floor with hardwax gets scratched up, can it have another coat put on to restore it, or does it need to be sanded again? Is the osmo better than the treatex? 
I was really sold on the idea of the hardwax oil because I have dogs, and I know it will get scratched but I thought it could be freshened up/repaired without sanding it again?

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## dazza71

Need to clarify Dusty- it's not my company but did give them 17yrs service after a French Polishing Apprenticeship, Lived in London for 5years where I first used osmo on European Oak & now work for myself(20yrs too late) contracting back to them mainly doing there staining work. 
I love to hate the job and hopefully one day i'll do a perfect floor. 
Piscean, Treatex sell a repair kit and it can be recoated without sanding, use gloss treatex with hardener for first coat and you won't have to resand back to timber. Lustre treatex does give a beautiful finish

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## teela001

I just cruised to Bunnings and was looking at the Cabots water based finishes for floors. It appears one can add a water based stain by mixing it in with the second layer of finish so as it is "sandwiched" between the clear layers. That would give me some colour ro the floor. Has anyone used this?

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## Gaza

> I just cruised to Bunnings and was looking at the Cabots water based finishes for floors. It appears one can add a water based stain by mixing it in with the second layer of finish so as it is "sandwiched" between the clear layers. That would give me some colour ro the floor. Has anyone used this?

  suggest you use a "real" floor finsh system cabots is a DIY product which is xy.

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## teela001

Gaza I'm going to cry! 
As I said before I've gone back 20 pages of this topic and it seems there are so many different finishes out there, some sound good, but then someone else says they arn't, then another product sounds equally as good but it's un-available to me. So I finally decided on Cabots because it had some good feedback and it's easily available from my local hardware store. Why do you suggest it's not a good product to use? Have you had a bad experience with it? What other "real" finish do you recommend? One that I can easily buy, water based and that will add a little colour to my radiata pine floor. 
And just to confuse myself even further I found this -  *Ardvos Wood Oil* 
    Made primarily from cold pressed organic flaxseed oil, tree resins and wax, and containing a non-hazardous solvent and  drying     agent. Ardvos is the most popular  natural oil finish sold in Australia     over the past 20 years. It is applied professionally in Melbourne by Anro Floorcare  	and made in Germany  by Livos.
   Suitable for interior timber and cork flooring     including kitchens and bathrooms, in domestic and some commercial situations.     Also suitable for interior wood paneling, stairs, furniture, and all wood trim.
     Appearance is a transparent satin sheen and a deep rich  colour highlighting of the grain     and beauty of the timber.
Colour of the oil is a light honey tone.
Odour is a mild linseed smell that dissipates after a few weeks
Flexibility is good. It allows the timber to breath and move and will not cause edge bonding.
Durability is good. The oil and resin mixture 	impregnates the timber and hardens within it making it water resistant, durable, 	and resistant to most stains. Similar to a polyuethane finish it takes 4 - 6 weeks to attain its full hardeness     so it should be treated gently  in this initial period.
Cleaning and maintenence. During the  first  6 weeks     while the oil and resin layer is still curing to its full hardness  it is best to avoid water on the floor. 	After this period a damp mop with a little Trena, a ph neutral cleaner,  in the water is all that is needed for cleaning. 	Detergents, harsh cleaners and micro fiber mops can  strip  oil from  the floor. Glanos wax can be added 	to the mopping water periodically to increase the shine, and Latis 	intensive cleaner can be used to shift any hard to move stains. As with  any timber 	floor it is advisable to sweep regulary, put mats at entrances to avoid   dirt and grit being 	tramped in, and to avoid scratching the floor when moving furniture  about. If scratches do occur they can usually be remedied by a light  sanding and massaging in some more oil.  
Well it sounds good.....anyone used it?

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## The Livos Lady

the ardvos is a great oil as it impregnates and because it does not leave a plastic coat on top of the timber can be spot repaired or spot rejuvenated. ideal if you have dogs or small kids. it is easy to do room by room and does not leave any nasty smell so you can live in the house whilst you are doing it. but do all your other renovations first. i have the livos oils on my radiata pine floors after we sanded the plastic varnish off but i sused antoehr product the kunos in white. it is still an oil but has also natural waxes and resins. these products are not bomb proof but so much easier and healthier for you and your family. 
about your floors. why get something artifcial if you already have timber boards. maybe you would not have choosen pine but if in good nick, why not sand. the amount you sand off depends on how good or bad your baords are but generally you only sand to level the floor and them you buff to get a smooth finish. 
in the current issue of owner builder, there is an article about the steps for sanding your own floors but there is so much on the net anyway. good luck.

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## Gaza

> Gaza I'm going to cry! 
> As I said before I've gone back 20 pages of this topic and it seems there are so many different finishes out there, some sound good, but then someone else says they arn't, then another product sounds equally as good but it's un-available to me. So I finally decided on Cabots because it had some good feedback and it's easily available from my local hardware store. Why do you suggest it's not a good product to use? Have you had a bad experience with it? What other "real" finish do you recommend? One that I can easily buy, water based and that will add a little colour to my radiata pine floor. 
> And just to confuse myself even further I found this -  *Ardvos Wood Oil* 
>     Made primarily from cold pressed organic flaxseed oil, tree resins and wax, and containing a non-hazardous solvent and  drying     agent. Ardvos is the most popular  natural oil finish sold in Australia     over the past 20 years. It is applied professionally in Melbourne by Anro Floorcare  	and made in Germany  by Livos.
>    Suitable for interior timber and cork flooring     including kitchens and bathrooms, in domestic and some commercial situations.     Also suitable for interior wood paneling, stairs, furniture, and all wood trim.
>      Appearance is a transparent satin sheen and a deep rich  colour highlighting of the grain     and beauty of the timber.
> Colour of the oil is a light honey tone.
> Odour is a mild linseed smell that dissipates after a few weeks
> Flexibility is good. It allows the timber to breath and move and will not cause edge bonding.
> ...

  been doing flooring for over 10yrs, never used cabots once, you can not even buy it from the trade stores where we buy our stuff from. 
waterbased best products are bona, synteko,  
"tinting" of a waterbased clear coat as you suggest could end in disaster, tinting solvent works well but you will be walking into trouble tinting the waterbased, just stain the floor first. 
maybe you should look at using a oil, like synteko natural oil this can be tinted before application and being oil it gives you great wearing properties, and easy to touch ups

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## teela001

Thanks Gaza, ok Cabots is out. The Syntecko oils sound good also. But these oils aren't available at our local hardware stores unfortunately, which is a shame as they are better for your health and good for the environment. The only bad thing I'm finding about the oils is the down time is 5 days - 24 hours between coats then recommends not to walk on floors for 2 days after last coat = five days. I am going to do a ring around later and see if I can buy it local.

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## goldie1

Synteko have a couple of outlets in SA check their website under distributers

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## teela001

yeah I'm still procrastinating over this floor sanding. I can't get any of the above oils (arvos, syntecko) where I live...only option is to buy on-line....I might still do that however...I can go to any hardware store and buy China wood oil (tung oil) made from seed of some tree in China so it sounds similar as the other oils. So should I not bother to seek out all these other brands from all far corners of Aust and just whack a few coats of China wood oil on it instead? At the end of the day is it just the same?

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## burraboy

I've been reading this thread with our own job in mind.  We had two rooms of old baltic boards that we wanted sanded and finished and were weighing up the DIY vs Pro options.  In the end, the pro quotes were about the $900 range for the 24sqm we had to do, with no savings for punching and filling ourselves.  Fair enough, it's their livelihood and they need to screw you for what they can.  As you can guess, we went DIY.  Costs for hiring machines, papers consumed and for a tin of Tung oil finish was about $300 all up.  The finished result?  Appropriate for the 100 year old house, but certainly not up to the professional standard you might expect for with brand new new house.  The floor looks good where you can see it around the rugs and the Tung oil finish is excellent, both in terms of finish and ease of application!  Just be careful what you get though, China Wood Oil gives a matt finish as opposed to Tung oil for a satin finish.  Floor sealer (tung oil based) is another option, I think there have been problems with nomenclature with these products so be careful that what you get gives the finish you want.  Talk to a salesman who knows what they are talking about.
Get a pro if you want a pro finish and have the cash, but if the finish is not that important and the cash is, the go DIY for sure!

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## TimDavis

China Wood Oil is pure tung oil.
Most of the other products are generally only about 6% tung oil, basically polyurethane.

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## Human Potato

I did a DIY job about a year ago in our loungeroom, about 16sqm of pine installed in the late 1950's. We used water based cabots satin. 
It wasn't difficult, probably because we were not going for a professional mirror-like finish. We just wanted to get rid of the 30 year old pee-stained carpet, and after ripping it up we found the floorboards had never been finished and were covered in paint stains and ink-stamps. Still better than the carpet though.  You might be able to find my thread around here somewhere all about it, including pictures. 
The sanding wasn't all that difficult, presumably because it was just pine.  It really didnt take long to get the hang of using the drum sander either (like, 30 seconds?).  I started where I knew the couch was going to go.  I had read all the threads and was paranoid about grinding a hole in the floor from leaving it stationary too long but my fears were unfounded.  its not like you are trying to pilot the space shuttle, you are just using an overgrown vaccuum cleaner that pulls itself along rather than having to be pushed.  The edge sander was also worth its weight in gold.  The bunnings guy told us that we would only need 80 grit paper but this was wrong, we should have given it a second sand with something much finer (120+?).   
As for the Cabots water based satin - it is very strong.  We have a hyperactive labrador and he hasnt managed to damage the coating itself.  We also drag our coffee table around several times each night.  The pine boards get dents in them but the coating itself never seems to come off.  However, our choice of satin may have been a bad one because it basically leaves the boards looking the same as they did just after they had been sanded.  They literally look just like freshly sanded pine.  i was hoping for something more like a golden-honey colour but that never eventuated.  I actually returned to this forum to get some advice on how to improve on our next floor sanding job, so look out for that post! 
The water based varnish needed 4 hours between coats so we were able to get 3 coats finished in 1 day after the sanding had finished.  We moved the furniture back in the following day and were careful for another 2 days or so.  Since then we dont even think about it.  The real work was in dust-proofing the room and puttying the nail holes.  We did all the prep the night before so that we could just get out of bed and start sanding right away.  We put the varnish on with a roller and did the finishing touches with a large paint brush.  There were virtually no fumes, and I cant even remember if there was any odour at all other than a "fresh water based paint" smell which was quite pleasant.  All in all it was a very friendly product to work with. 
So yeah, if you want perfection you probably wont get it with DIY.  But if you just want a decent water resistant hard wearing floor covering that looks nice, DIY is fine.

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## Human Potato

Actually, I wrote about it in my blog here :Ramblings of the Human Potato

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## teela001

well howdy human potato (I like your name). I haven't been in here for a while, all thoughts of floorsanding have been taken over with other goings on in my life. However I still want to do it but other people keep changing my mind...the most recent is that sanding the floors will make our house too cold in winter. That aint what I wanna hear as our house is already too darn cold in winter and I have the electricity bills to prove it. And we also live in one of the coldest places in SA....and I can't stand the cold, I'm one of these people who still shivers in a fur lined jacket and ugg boots when everyone else is in their shorts and thongs.
 I am also wanting the honey coloured floors you'd like to achieve mr potato...there is apparently a stain that can be added to Cobats water finish but it wasn't recomended somewhere above . 
So I'm stuck...and my original question still remains 'to sand or not to sand?'

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## Marc

I am still wondering about the person that said sanding takes off 6mm...hum considering the board has 19mm taking 6 would go down to the tongue. A scary thought if true. 
If the nails don't show and sanding is a problem, oil the floor as they are.

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## ringtail

Just had my cypress floor done. The sander said 1.5 mm max has gone, and my boards had a decent cup in therm. I have had to replace a few dodgy boards since and yep, 1.3 mm was all that was sanded off, which is still quite a lot. On a flat floor I guess .5 mm would do it easy. We used enviro pro 2 pac ( bona traffic) and it looks awesome. Dogs have scratched it though but whatever.

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## teela001

ah dogs...don't ya love em!! 
So someone tell me will bare floor boards really make my house colder?

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## ringtail

Not as bad as a kid sitting on the floor with a fork, digging a hole - lol 
A few factors - gaps, breeze / drafts sun exposure etc... The beauty of timber is it responds very quickly to temperature change making it very predictable. If the floor gets any winter sun it will warm up very quickly, but loose its heat very quickly once the sun is off it. You will still get a few drafts unless the floor is insulated. Unlesss you go bare foot in winter you wont notice it IMO.

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