# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Bearer/Joist Protection and Decking Screws

## HomeReno

Hi All, 
While at the major hardware Warehouse this afternoon picking up some supplies for the decking project underway at the moment I stumbled across a product called Bearer and Joist protector which looks similar to damp proof course. It comes on a roll and apparently its just a matter of nailing into the tops of the bearers and joists and claims to protect the bearer and joist timber also has flanges on the 2 edges that allow water to run off. I have never seen this product before and I was planning on painting the tops of the bearers and joists with eco in ground timber protector (timber is already treated pine H3) for extra protection but I am wondering which is more effective as the bearer and joist protector product on a roll is quite exy at about $25 for 15 meters.... the protector paint I mentioned above is $17 per litre so would be cheaper to use the paint but like I say I have used treated pine H3 just wondering if I should take it to the next level and use either of the above products?? Approx half the deck will be covered by a pergola and the other half exposed so perhaps I only apply it to the area exposed?? Thinking out aloud here If I use the timber protector on the roll only on the area that is exposed (no cover) then it cause a slight 3-4mm height difference as it is quite thick???  
Also is either method mentioned above more effective then the other? 
Also what type and length decking screws are recommend to use to secure 90 x 19mm Merbau decking to Treated Pine???  
Assistance with the above is greatly appreciated as I am looking to install the joists on Sat... 
Thanks in advance.
Cheers 
Home Reno

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## phild01

The joist protector product has been available for some years.  I won't use it preferring to use H3 framing with Alcor flashing over the bearers and just painting the tops only of the joists with something like Solagard.

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## HomeReno

Thanks Phild01,  
I like your suggestion and it sounds practical, I may adopt it for my project and use the in ground bitumen paint for tops of the joists or Solar Guard as you suggest... 
Thanks for the advise.

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## barney118

I found the rolls protectadeck to be good option and alcor separates over time they might seem extra but they do a good job. 50 mm screws are good enough for the boards I bought in bulk on ebay Stainless steel which comes with a smart bit to pre drill countersink at the same time.

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## METRIX

> Hi All, 
> While at the major hardware Warehouse this afternoon picking up some supplies for the decking project underway at the moment I stumbled across a product called Bearer and Joist protector which looks similar to damp proof course. It comes on a roll and apparently its just a matter of nailing into the tops of the bearers and joists and claims to protect the bearer and joist timber also has flanges on the 2 edges that allow water to run off. I have never seen this product before and I was planning on painting the tops of the bearers and joists with eco in ground timber protector (timber is already treated pine H3) for extra protection but I am wondering which is more effective as the bearer and joist protector product on a roll is quite exy at about $25 for 15 meters.... the protector paint I mentioned above is $17 per litre so would be cheaper to use the paint but like I say I have used treated pine H3 just wondering if I should take it to the next level and use either of the above products?? Approx half the deck will be covered by a pergola and the other half exposed so perhaps I only apply it to the area exposed?? Thinking out aloud here If I use the timber protector on the roll only on the area that is exposed (no cover) then it cause a slight 3-4mm height difference as it is quite thick???  
> Also is either method mentioned above more effective then the other? 
> Also what type and length decking screws are recommend to use to secure 90 x 19mm Merbau decking to Treated Pine???  
> Assistance with the above is greatly appreciated as I am looking to install the joists on Sat... 
> Thanks in advance.
> Cheers 
> Home Reno

  The Protectadeck is a good option, we use this on all decks for a coupe of reasons, it has small wings on the sides which deflect the water away from the joists stopping the water pooling, it has self healing properties, ie: when you screw through it the rubber will seal around the screw forming a watertight seal, and it's easy to lay, you pin one end down, then roll it out, stretch it slightly then pin the other end down and a few fixings down the joist, it forms a perfectly straight smooth cover. 
Using outdoor paint is no good, the water will eventually bubble up the paint as it sits on it trapped betwen the boards for days at at time, over time the paint will breakdown and hold the water, alcor is too difficult to use, you cant get it smooth and when piereced by the screw it does not seal around the screw, you will find protectadeck cheaper elsewhere online, take this price to the big hardwares and make them match and 10% match the price, I have seen it on sale at Bunnings ofter for around $20 a roll. 
Screws would be 50mm minimum Type 17, these have the thread missing at the top part of the screw, don't buy screws which have thread all the way to the top, the big hardware's sell these in bulk labelled as decking screws there not suited because when your drilling them in there is no seperation of the decking board to joist, which wont allow the board to pull down tight., see below.

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## phild01

From my experience doing this I have to disagree.
Alcor does not separate, it is a bituminous coated aluminium, not the plastic coated foil.  I have dismantled three 20+ year old fully exposed decks that I did this on and the timber was absolutely perfect and no sign of rot around the bearer fixings.  One was Oregon, one treated pine and the other was hardwood.
The joist tops were also painted with Solagard and no lifting of the paint at all (though not perfect).  I believe the paint stays good because the rest of the joist is left unpainted.  BTW, no oil based primer used, just the Solagard.
Why I won't use the joist protector is that I feel the material will sweat the moisture from the joist more so than a coating of paint.  It won't breathe as well as Alcor or paint.  Anyway just my feeling.

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## METRIX

> Why I won't use the joist protector is that I feel the material will sweat the moisture from the joist more so than a coating of paint.  It won't breathe as well as Alcor or paint.  Anyway just my feeling.

  I think Alcor will also sweat the moisture and posibly condensate in the colder months due to it being made from metal, but I wouldnt be concerned about that as it only covering one small edge of the joist, and there is 99% of the timber which can allow the moisture in the joist to escape., alcor breathing ? it's made from aluminium. 
The beauty of the protectadeck, is has small angled wings, which deflect water away from the joist below, similar to a dripline on a kitchen benchtop. 
Anyway theres always 2 or more sides to any story, I use protectadeck as I trust it, and so far has not given me a reason to not trust it.

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## phild01

> ...alcor breathing ? it's made from aluminium.

  Ok, let me put it differently because I generalised what I was trying to say.  I only use it on bearers and when you see it laid it does not hug at the timber and this lets the bearer breathe and keeps it sheltered.  I have done this over and over and it works brilliantly.  I haven't used the joist protector so I might be wrong with what I feel.  The way I look at it is that the H3 joists seem to last as long as what is laid on top.
I have had green hardwood joists that have failed before the KD HW decking but this wouldn't be used as such normally now.

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## Oldsaltoz

I suspect a strip of builders plastic would keep the bearers dry and cost less, if you want drainage as well, use a paper punch to put holes in the edge of the plastic and lay a bit of dowel against it, pull the plastic around and part way nail through the punch holes with a fall in the nail for drainage and you should have a small gutter each side. pull out the dowel and your done. 
A little more work I know, little mor saved as well. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

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## Marc

I built a biggish deck fully exposed and right next to a massive sydney blue gum not long ago and the joist protector would have cost a bomb, so I bought rolls of 150mm moisture barrier and a pneumatic stapler and installed it in a flash. The previous deck I demolished was made of treated pine with no joist protection. All joist were completely rotten at the top.

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## phild01

> I suspect a strip of builders plastic would keep the bearers dry and cost less, 
> Good luck and fair winds.

  Builder's plastic will generally rot from the sun over a period of time.

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## METRIX

It doesent add much cost to the price of a deck, on an average 6m x 4m deck, covering all joists would come to a total of 60lm, even at bunnings overpriced of $25 per 25lm roll, that would come to a total of $60, or yes you would have to buy three rolls so it would cost $75  :Eek:  
Or a huge deck of 10m x 5m buying protectadeck from Bunnings would add $120 to the total deck price, a deck of 10m x 5m will cost average of around $8000 - $14,000 depending on what's specified, $120 to protect joists on a deck of that size is insignificant, when using a product specifically designed for the purpose. 
$120 is not a deal breaker on making profit or not on a deck that size, if anyone thinks it is their kidding themself, we don't build for charity every day.

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## michaelcb

I used Protectadeck on the bearers, very easy to install. Council building inspector was pleased to see it when the frame was inspected and said it was their preferred solution. Deckmaster decking I used came with joist protection as part of the kit.

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## gyddyup

> Hi All, 
> Approx half the deck will be covered by a pergola and the other half exposed so perhaps I only apply it to the area exposed?? Thinking out aloud here If I use the timber protector on the roll only on the area that is exposed (no cover) then it cause a slight 3-4mm height difference as it is quite thick???

  Is HomeReno right about this?  how much extra height do you allow when using Protectadeck? 
thanks.

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## METRIX

> Is HomeReno right about this?  how much extra height do you allow when using Protectadeck? 
> thanks.

  Protectadeck is about 0.5mm thick, you won't see any height difference to where it is and is not, the decking boards are not even that accurately thicknessed, not sure what the above one was at 3-4mm thick, possibly there was an old bit of carpet caught in the roll ?  :Rolleyes:

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## Marc

have you seen the Camo hidden screw system? I used it and it worked out a treat. No screws in sight, solid and allows to sand if you ever need to. Joist protection is a good idea buy the dedicated product or damp course plastic but use something rather than just a bit of paint.

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## METRIX

> have you seen the Camo hidden screw system? I used it and it worked out a treat. No screws in sight, solid and allows to sand if you ever need to. Joist protection is a good idea buy the dedicated product or damp course plastic but use something rather than just a bit of paint.

  Marc, what decking boards did yo use the Camo in ?.
I still have a full box of them, as when I tried it on Merbau and blackbutt decks, it was not successful, it tended to split the timbers edge more often than not. 
I like the idea of the system, but I haven't had any luck with it.

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## Marc

I used it on the worst possible timber for splitting and that is Cyprus. The deck is 14m x 5.something and I did it all by myself. I did import the tool and the screws since at the time Bunnings only had the shorter screws and a fixed handle. I got one that shifts for larger boards. It takes a bit getting used to it and it was hard on my wrist but eventually I got the hang of it. From memory the one thing you don't do is push the screw in, there is when you split the timber. The screw has a little cutting edge that pre drills the timber. If you push hard, the screw bites before time and there is no pre drilling and so it splits. If I did it in Cyprus, Merbau should be easy. The end screw you must predrill with a normal drill or it will split. However I tried as a test to allow the screw to drill by using zero pressure and more time and even at the end of the board I was able to screw without splitting. Waste of time of course but just a test.
Check out this thread.  http://www.renovateforum.com/f196/no-nails-104384/ 
By the way the cost of the imported screws and tool was way cheaper than the prices at Bunnings and I still have 3/4 of a 10L bucket full of screws for another deck that is waiting in line.

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## phild01

Nice looking deck, Marc.  Does the deck still have that magic golden colour?

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## Marc

I used Sikkens oil and that had a sikkening effect on my deck. Never use this product it is appalling, and so is their customer disservice. I still have 10 litres of it that may be of some use for furniture but is definitely a waste of money on a deck. And it is horribly expensive too.
As soon as the weather dries a bit, I am giving it a light sanding with a poly vac, spray with 30 seconds to kill the mold and oiling it with a natural penetrating oil. The deck despite the poor coating, has a nice golden colour when dry.

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## phild01

Once upon a time I used a Sikkens product on the first deck I ever built and it was a disappointment.  I reckoned it was a product that never considered the Aussie sun.

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## Whitey180

> I used it on the worst possible timber for splitting and that is Cyprus. The deck is 14m x 5.something and I did it all by myself. I did import the tool and the screws since at the time Bunnings only had the shorter screws and a fixed handle. I got one that shifts for larger boards. It takes a bit getting used to it and it was hard on my wrist but eventually I got the hang of it. From memory the one thing you don't do is push the screw in, there is when you split the timber. The screw has a little cutting edge that pre drills the timber. If you push hard, the screw bites before time and there is no pre drilling and so it splits. If I did it in Cyprus, Merbau should be easy. The end screw you must predrill with a normal drill or it will split. However I tried as a test to allow the screw to drill by using zero pressure and more time and even at the end of the board I was able to screw without splitting. Waste of time of course but just a test.
> Check out this thread.  http://www.renovateforum.com/f196/no-nails-104384/ 
> By the way the cost of the imported screws and tool was way cheaper than the prices at Bunnings and I still have 3/4 of a 10L bucket full of screws for another deck that is waiting in line.

  Heya Marc,  
Can you remember where you bought the screws and tool for the camo decking system?

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## METRIX

> Heya Marc,  
> Can you remember where you bought the screws and tool for the camo decking system?

  Bunnings  Camo Fasteners 80-123mm Hidden Deck Screw Guide I/N 2410217 | Bunnings Warehouse  Camo Fasteners Protech 7g x 48mm Trimhead Screw - 350 Pack I/N 2410219 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## Whitey180

They don't have it in bulk.

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## METRIX

How much do you want, they have screws in pack up to 700, that is the max most people stock them in, Special orders may be able to get them in 1750 lots, not sure if they import the 1750 boxes here, they have then in the US.

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## Marc

Amazon.com: Camo 1750-Pro Pack 2 3/8 inch - 1750 Count Screws and Marksman Pro Fastening Tool: Home Improvement 
Also on ebay US, Google camo decking screws and find a supplier to post to you directly. I bought from Amazon.com and got it fright forwarded by Myus when they were a decent option. This days they have gone bad so wouldn't try them. Perhaps US to OZ - Shipping to Australia is a better choice if you can't find someone willing to post. As usual we pay way too much here for the same products. 
Thinking back to how much work it was to staple the damp barrier to the bearers and joist, I concede that protectadeck is the way to go.

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## Whitey180

Cheers Marc, thanks so much. Will see how I go  :Redface: )

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## DEMAK Timber

The local Bunnings here only has the camo screws for composite decking in stock. (I've spoken to Modwood about them and they have said using them will void the warranty.) 
The protecta joist is great, the only criticism I've had from a couple of customers who bought it, is because it is rubber it tends to grip the decking board and makes it harder to adjust the board. 
We carry the full range of camo screws in stock (including the stainless steel). The largest size box available in Australia is 1750.  CAMO Hidden Deck Fastening Screws 7g x 48mm and 60mm - Demak Timber & Hardware 
Renovate Forum members can get $25 off shipping by using the code reno_camo

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## 2sheds

A question which has always had me pondering. If you have some sort of flashing on the top of the joists and decking boards firmly screwed down just how much water/moisture is actually going to seep under the flashing?? Just wondering if anyone has a definitive answer to this. I assume some of you build decks for a living and are far more informed and experienced than me in this regard.  
Many thanks, Peter.

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## Oldsaltoz

It will not protect the decking timber at, indeed some types can actually cause moisture to remain in the decking timbers longer that with no system or other systems. 
However it will protect the joists, the big trick is to ensure the hole made bu the fastening through the protection system is in fact water tight. 
This can be as simple as a dab of sealant, of a properly designed sealing system. 
The key is use a system that only not prevents the joist ever getting wet but also that helps the deck timber breath and drain properly. keeping the grooves in the underside exposed helps a lot no matter what system you use. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

The dome heads on the Timberlock decking nails were designed to protect the nail holes from moisture rot.  But people don't like the look of a proud fitting nails preferring the countersunk screws instead.  For practicality I still think they are the best fixing, aesthetically no.

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## PJMax

Are you supposed to protect the joists or the bearers or both?
How do you go about protecting where you've blocked for picture framing, deck joins, etc? 
Lastly, if you had the chance to get 2-3/8" camo screws for the same price as 1-7/8", is there any reason you wouldn't choose the longer ones? (I plan on using them with 86mm spotted gum boards)  
Also, one for Marc....
How did you go about doing the picture frame mitres with the camo system?

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## Marc

I put down dampcourse stapled to the joist and the bearers. Just like over the double bearers I put it over the double joist at the edges. I suggest not to do that and to spend the extra money for the proper product that comes in different width for single and double joist or bearer. Frame mitre wasn't particularly difficult, the tool that guides the screws on both sides needs to be with one of the spacers on top of the board. That gives it a flatter angle but it is still ok to fix to the joist. Not particularly challenging. I am sure there is a you tube video about it. I don't have access to you tube right now to post a link. The only difficulty I had with the cmo system was that I ended up with a very soar hand. May be I was gripping it too hard or pushing down too hard, not sure. It was conceded a very large deck at hum ... 14.5 x 5.5 or something like that.

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## Marc

PS I used the 60 mm screws. I don't think that despite assurance to the contrary, the 48mm are long enough to hold a 20mm board on treated pine. The angle at which the screws enter the board is almost 45 so the 20mm board becomes what? 25, 28? The remaining 20 mm into soft pine is also at an angle so it does not go 20mm deep but may be 15. I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of having such little hold on a joist. To me it is 60 mm or bust.

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## PJMax

Thanks for the response.
I will have to check out what sizes there are to make sure I'm covered. *pardon the pun. 
I was planning to overhang the picture frame by 25mm or so to allow face boards around the perimeter down to the lawn (low deck ~275mm)
That is the only way this amateur can think of to finish the deck and close the ends from cat/possum.

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## shauck

I used protect a deck for the first time the other day. Good stuff to use. Stretches out to a minute thickness and stays in line nicely, just several staples along the length. Much better than paint I'd say. Price is negligible in the scheme of things.

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## sol381

if you use lvl joists or engineered joists then you have to not only use a product like protectadeck but the joist must also now be primed.. Not doing this will void your warranty.. i don't use hardwood joists at all anymore and have been using protectadeck for years...im sure damp course would work but its not specified for joists..

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## METRIX

> The local Bunnings here only has the camo screws for composite decking in stock. (I've spoken to Modwood about them and they have said using them will void the warranty.) 
> The protecta joist is great, the only criticism I've had from a couple of customers who bought it, is because it is rubber it tends to grip the decking board and makes it harder to adjust the board. 
> We carry the full range of camo screws in stock (including the stainless steel). The largest size box available in Australia is 1750.  CAMO Hidden Deck Fastening Screws 7g x 48mm and 60mm - Demak Timber & Hardware 
> Renovate Forum members can get $25 off shipping by using the code reno_camo

  HI DEMAK, better check you online prices, your 60mm 1750 box of camo screws is cheaper than the 350 box,

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## PJMax

> HI DEMAK, better check you online prices, your 60mm 1750 box of camo screws is cheaper than the 350 box,

  There's a small note under the drop downs that says 60mm not available in 1750 qty. 
I just ordered 2 x 1750 boxes of 60mm from the US for the princely sum of AU$275 at my door.

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## laan

> Screws would be 50mm minimum Type 17, these have the thread missing at the top part of the screw, don't buy screws which have thread all the way to the top, the big hardware's sell these in bulk labelled as decking screws there not suited because when your drilling them in there is no seperation of the decking board to joist, which wont allow the board to pull down tight.,

  I'm just about to need a bunch of screws for my Forest Reds deck... I was considering the deckmax hidden fixing system but found it too expensive and I don't really like the idea of having the boards glued to the joists. Does anyone have any specific recommendations about stainless steel decking screws in treated pine? Would any 50mm Type 17 stainless screws do or are there significant difference in quality between brands? I'd like a fairly small head, but probably not this small:  Stainless Steel Decking Screws | Anzor Australia, Brisbane 
A builder told me not to go for stainless steel and simply use galv screws instead because stainless breaks much easier and it's a real hassle when the last screw you put in the board snaps. He said you wont see the difference anyway after oiling your deck... Any opinions on this? I think I'll still want to use stainless. I'm using CUTEK decking oil with just a little bit of tint and I think you'll definitively notice a difference between stainless and galvanized after coating with that.

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## barney118

> I'm just about to need a bunch of screws for my Forest Reds deck... I was considering the deckmax hidden fixing system but found it too expensive and I don't really like the idea of having the boards glued to the joists. Does anyone have any specific recommendations about stainless steel decking screws in treated pine? Would any 50mm Type 17 stainless screws do or are there significant difference in quality between brands? I'd like a fairly small head, but probably not this small:  Stainless Steel Decking Screws | Anzor Australia, Brisbane 
> A builder told me not to go for stainless steel and simply use galv screws instead because stainless breaks much easier and it's a real hassle when the last screw you put in the board snaps. He said you wont see the difference anyway after oiling your deck... Any opinions on this? I think I'll still want to use stainless. I'm using CUTEK decking oil with just a little bit of tint and I think you'll definitively notice a difference between stainless and galvanized after coating with that.

  Stick with s/s bit dearer but won't corrode with TP where gal will over time. Ebay do some good deals on s/s.  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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