# Forum Home Renovation Fences & Screens  Diagonal  backstay at 45

## Moondog55

For the front fence and using a TP-H4 90*90 post.
If it was just for a fence I would not bother but this may also be used in the future to hold a low gate.
Fence is to be 1100mm high and I am digging the hole down 600mm
2100mm between this post and the next and the top rail will be 140*45 to match the rest of the fence and using 150*25 H3 palings for the same reason
Plinth board will be a H4 Sleeper 200 * 50 to match the raised garden bed that faces the street.
Will a scrap of H4 at ground level and set into the concrete be sufficient?
An alternative that would be unobtrusive visually is to use a couple of screw eyes, wire and a turnbuckle
I was going to use a 120 * 120 Cypress post I happen to have  but it is too short to give me the 600mm in the ground and 90*90 is so much cheaper
I can't go much deeper than 600mm here because I've hit the old lava flow basalt at  that depth

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## Moondog55

Going with rough sawn 100 * 100 TP-H4 and after much grunting and swearing I've got this one hole 750 deep so I won't be bothering with diagonal bracing. I've buggered another fencing bar tho and I'll have to go and buy another few bags of concrete pre-mix, it's now a big hole

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## Moondog55

I'm thinking it should be solid enough, I got the hole a bit deeper again

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## Moondog55

Also see https://www.renovateforum.com/f229/c...7/#post1063311

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## Moondog55

Some progress 
Next section is a little longer and will need a centre post but I don't have to dig a deep hole for that

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## Moondog55

Some more progress and a few design changes along the way, Cecile loves Wisteria and the raised garden bed that is part of the front fence design now is going to have a tall post in the centre of the rear wall to take a few beams to include a small [Very small so we don't need a permit] arbour for the Wisteria to grow up and around.
So I dug the central hole a good bit deeper to take a 3m post. Posting while I wait for some Rapid-Set to set in the other hole before a mate comes over late in the afternoon to help me get the tall post reasonable plumb
That square hole looks quite small but that is a 250*250 paver in the bottom, I compacted the clay with some dry cement powder then spent 20 minutes or so with a fencing bar getting it nice and dense on the bottom before setting that paver down
Finished arbour should be about 1200 * 1500 give or take a foot either way depending on how the wind blows and how much The Boss wants to spend on the finished item

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## Moondog55

The little return I like, while it's real purpose is to hide the rubbish bins it just looks "Right" when viewed from the street and it really reinforces and stiffens that front corner fence post. I consulted our local postie about the position of the letter box and moved it from the driveway corner at his request, he said they all feel a tad safer if it isn't directly on the driveway because not everybody checks their mirrors before dropping the clutch and speeding backwards onto the road it seems

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## Marc

Yes, I like the little hiding place for the bins ... and those post are not going anywhere in a hurry.  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

> Yes, I like the little hiding place for the bins ... and those post are not going anywhere in a hurry.

  That almost sounds like a compliment Marc

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## Bros

> That almost sounds like a compliment Marc

  You should feel privileged as he rations compliments.

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## Moondog55

> You should feel privileged as he rations compliments.

  I am Very much so

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## Marc

Get lost you two, I don't ration anything and I do like your fence Moon.  :Smilie:  
Make sure you buy the Wisteria from a reputable place. I once bought a wisteria that never flowered in 15 years, regardless of what I did, water, no water, fertilise. I even followed one advice to beat the plant up to distress it and get it to flower. Nothing. It grew like mad but no flowers.   :Rofl5:

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## Moondog55

Cecile likes the fence so my opinion doesn't count.
One of the things about posting lots of progress pictures is that if a major mistake is happening somebody usually jumps in quickly to point it out.
I start with the top sleeper on the garden bed because it is simply easier for me rather than digging out and then packing to the correct height.
As well as the place holder screws there will be extra vertical slabs on the outside to take the weight of the soil; especially if it gets saturated in a heavy rain

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## Bros

Neither does mine as I don't like it as I'm not a fan of "block type" fences I like to see open ones like on the side fence but one saving grace is it is low not like some of the hideous 2m fences I see.

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## Moondog55

I don't like them solid but with staggered palings you get to break the wind but let breezes through and you can see out if on the correct angle.Waiting on Rapid-Set to go off before I start on the next side.
The garden bed is also going to get a return
I'm really liking the way this is coming together and excited that the end is in sight and I'll try hard not to whinge about having to paint it

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## Moondog55

Western half of the fence only has a single post but what a post. There is a distinct possibility that a shade sail may get anchored to this post at some time and i was going to use a spare sleeper, then I found a short of cypress but it wasn't quite tall enough. Solution? Glue and screws of course.
150 * 150 F7 cypress post laminated to that 200 * 50 H4 sleeper and 600 into the ground; of course keyholed under the footpath
This fence post is not going anywhere fast even with a small shade sail attached to it from time to time, also if it's strong enough for a shade sail it will more than cope with a hammock
I have a spare corner bracket in 6mm galvanised that I can use to hold an eye bolt, I just need to find 2 of those big washers with the square hole in them in 12mm, all mine are for 10mm bolts
I spent today lugging compost and shoveling dirt into the big bed Works out at just over a cubic metre or 13 barrow loads off compost

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## r3nov8or

Looks good Moondog. < See what I did there? It's a full stop.  :Smilie:

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## Cecile

> Looks good Moondog. < See what I did there? It's a full stop.

  Next time you're in the area, stop by  :Redface: )

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## r3nov8or

> Next time you're in the area, stop by )

   Will do. The ring road takes me out of the way most times...

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## Moondog55

Small but large design parametre change. Cecile wants a Wisteria in the front, a quick google told me that the 140*35 doubled would be fine for the grape vine but a Wisteria needs something more solid and much stronger. Quick drive to Bernie Leen and I come home with a 2400 and a 2195 length of H3/F7 in 190*45 A few H3 and H4 offcuts for the braggets some 12mm cup-head bolts and 4 off 3mm thick washers and as I had a $20- note in my wallet and all the timbers was in the "Not 100% pile" that's all it cost me. It pays to shop local and often*.*

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## Moondog55

*.
Not a full stop It's a period in Amerispeak*

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## r3nov8or

Ha! Don't mind what you call them  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Looks a lot better, more integrated with the short return in place. It is taking too long to complete but it is getting done.
Hoping to be able to plant stuff next week

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## Moondog55

Bernie Leens had a beam for sale cheap An offcut too short to use in its structural strength rating at 2200 long
it's a 240*45 H3
But I know where it will fit, those posts to hold up the Wisteria are ~1900 apart and that top beam already in place is also 2200

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## Bros

Is that a silky oak in the front yard?

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## Moondog55

Deodara A Himalayan Cedar Just on 55YO, my mother planted it, I expect to lose it the next 200kph wind we get as very few taller trees in the area to act as windbreaks for it and they are not strong timber trees.
I am guessing it is now about 25 to 30 metres tall
Duff our builder mate identified that bit of timber as a stair tread and therefore F11 when he was here earlier and we put it in place.
There is something that is "Just right" in a garden with the use of large size timber framing in my eyes 
The Wisteria is a Floribunda; Japanese Double variety

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## Bros

I can see now it in not a silky oak. If you think it is going to fall down it would be better to cut it down as I see the timber is in demand so you may be able to cut it down for nothing.
I hate big trees close to my house as they drop foliage and it clogs gutters and there is the added risk of them coming down but I'm sure you know all of that.

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## Moondog55

Fall down ? No not for another 250 years but 200kph is our once in a hundred year wind and if we get one it may also take off the garage roof

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## Moondog55

Almost finished
It will need a trim cut with the plywood blade sometime before we paint it but as a streetscape this is it
We like it  
Bottom rail of the fence is straight The path has a hump in it

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## Marc

Looking great Moon.

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## Moondog55

Thanks Marc
As well as looking pleasing to our eyes those short returns really stiffen things up as well as hiding to some degree the rubbish bins.
I see a lot of dirt shovelling in my near future and the spreading of 19mm blue metal screenings

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## Optimus

What actually are all those posts and beams used for?

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## Moondog55

> What actually are all those posts and beams used for?

  Shade sail anchors and up until this month they were covered with Hardenbergias In about 3 years the Wisteria will cover most of it

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## Optimus

Ah k fair enough... 
No offence intended and a genuine question.. 
Are the upsides of the shade sail greater than the downsides of all the posts and beams in your front yard?

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## Moondog55

I would say a definite YES 
I do need to paint them when I paint the fence tho.
The house faces directly North 
In summer the heat coming onto the front of the house is far too great and we need to keep the house as cool as possible. Shading is cheaper to use than A/C even if the expense of setting up is high. If we were setting up the house to sell they would maybe go but we are here for the next 10 to 15 years

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## plum

The advancement in more efficient splittys have brought the running costs down significantly.

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## Moondog55

> The advancement in more efficient splittys have brought the running costs down significantly.

  But not yet to ZERO and what happens when the power goes out?

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## Optimus

Painting them won't hide them, air cons don't cost THAT much to run... 
Have you considered solar panels?

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## Moondog55

Yes we have and all electrical devices cost money to operate and Cecile MUST have A/C. A medical need you see
To run solar panels we would have to cut down the Himalayan Cedar and we won't do that

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## plum

> But not yet to ZERO and what happens when the power goes out?

  We've had one brown out in 15 years.

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## r3nov8or

> We've had one brown out in 15 years.

   We were like that for 'decades' and then about two years ago we are getting blackouts about every 3 months.  
Keeping the house cooler with shade sails will lessen the need for AC and lessen the extent of use when it is required. And refrigerated air isn't the most pleasant to be in all day either

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## Moondog55

I'll take some more pictures very soon. Plants are all doing well and very productive. 7 types of chillies planted.
Progress has come to a halt due to pain and mobility issues but I get the new hip tomorrow and as soon as the surgery heals I will be right back into the last few bits and pieces. We are now at the stage where we will need some gates to keep the dogs out and also for some much needed privacy if and when we use the outside area for parties.
Gates questions will of course need another post in a few weeks time

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## Marc

You like chillies? Do you have Carolina Cayenne? I can send you some seeds if you want.  https://www.chilipeppermadness.com/c...-chili-peppers

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## Moondog55

Reapers??
No thanks!!!!!!! :Shock: 
 I licked one once. Once was enough :Angryfire:  :Firedevil:  :Firedevil:  :Firedevil:  :Firedevil:  :Firedevil:  :Blowup:

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## Marc

No no, not reapers. I tried them, they are a million scovilles, the carolina cayenne are only 125000.
They are hotter than your average tai chicken little but you get soon used to it. I can chomp on them straight.

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## Moondog55

Pretty pictures 
One of these is a Cayenne
Thai
Hungarian Banana
Purple Grape
Jalapeno and some self seeded tomatoes

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## Marc

Yes, Cayenne and C.Cayene are in a different league.Anyway tell me if you want the seeds I can post them to you  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Send me a dozen and I'll give then a trial and much appreciated

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