# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  Triple grips instead of skew nailing joists to bearers, NSW

## Watters

Much googling reveals that attaching a triple grip on both sides of a joist to a bearer (using the correct nails) is a far more secure method of attaching a joist to a bearer. It also means a battery hammer can be used to attach the triple grips especially in tight corners. 
Where does it say that in NSW one has to skew nail joists and can't use triple grips instead?    
Note for self about triple grips - If only using one fastener per connection, stagger them alternate sides. See also page 59 of "The Australian House Building Manual".

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## OBBob

I don't think anyone is saying you can't ... I think best practice is probably to do both. There's certainly a speed constraint if you had to use brackets ... a couple of skew nails and then the apprentice can come through afterwards with the thousand hand-driven Pryda nails. .

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## webtubbs

What happened to the attachment you originally had here? It said it clearly on there that you can skew nail or use triple grips.

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## Watters

> What happened to the attachment you originally had here? It said it clearly on there that you can skew nail or use triple grips.

  The attachment was from the Australian House Building manual. I removed it because I realised that I would be infringing copyright by including it in the post.

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## Watters

> I don't think anyone is saying you can't ... I think best practice is probably to do both. There's certainly a speed constraint if you had to use brackets ... a couple of skew nails and then the apprentice can come through afterwards with the thousand hand-driven Pryda nails. .

  Sure appreciate the speed constraint but does it say anywhere you can't? I recall AS1684 (used in NSW) referring to skew nailing, I don't recall it talking about using triple grips or similar modern alternative. I also don't recall AS1684 banning triple grips either. So I'm not sure what the story is in NSW. 
The UK is a country with three times the population of Australia and one building code, while in Oz we have six different building codes....Sheesh kebab and the alley cats. In Qld I gather triple grips are the go, but in NSW?

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## METRIX

You can put what you want on there, it's makes no difference to anything your doing, 
Phew, so many questions about simple things. can't image what your going to come up when you actually start putting everything back in.

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## Marc

> The UK is a country with three times the population of Australia and one building code, while in Oz we have six different building codes....Sheesh kebab and the alley cats. In Qld I gather triple grips are the go, but in NSW?

  I think that a good compromise would be to use the UK building code anywhere you like.

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## Optimus

Watters, your wife is losing valuable income on her rental property. 
I suggest you bite the bullet and get someone in who knows what they're doing. It's a tax deduction she so valuably needs! 
Happy wife... and all

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## Marc

And you can not claim your own time unless you have a company and invoice her.

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## ringtail

Skew nailing has always been the nominal ( minimum) allowed fixing. Nearly everyone skew nails and triple grips. It's just the way things are done in the industry. Do not use grips or skew nails alone. Always use both. Same with joist hangers. Always skew nail first.

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## METRIX

> Watters, your wife is losing valuable income on her rental property. 
> I suggest you bite the bullet and get someone in who knows what they're doing. It's a tax deduction she so valuably needs! 
> Happy wife... and all

  Yes, I forgot this was a rental property, get someone in to finish it off ASAP, start getting some money back on this thing.

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## Watters

> Skew nailing has always been the nominal ( minimum) allowed fixing. Nearly everyone skew nails and triple grips. It's just the way things are done in the industry. Do not use grips or skew nails alone. Always use both. Same with joist hangers. Always skew nail first.

  Thanks ringtail for answering the question! So, by skew nailing we can comply with the spirit of AS 1684, and by using triple grips as well we get the additional holding benefit. 
Okay so, in addition to the stuff I have already ordered/bought (Scyon, LVL, Sikaflex 11fc), I will get LH and RH triple grips plus connector nails, skew nailing to use 75mm x 3.05mm (preferably friction glue type) nails. Bugle batten screws for wall bottom plate through YT into joists below (size TBA but probably 100mm going through 35mm plate and 19mm residual YT to existing 100mm x 50mm joists below, also some from underneath too...). 
Fantastic, a picture is emerging from the insightful answers provided on this forum....   

> Yes, I forgot this was a rental property, get someone in to finish it off ASAP, start getting some money back on this thing.

  Everyone's financial situation is different. In our case our tax accountant said to keep a record of renovation costs to add to cost base to offset against CGT should we sell one day. That won't be for a long long time. As for rental income, we can ride this out, it's not a drama.

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## phild01

Interested to know why skew nailing AND triple grips would be preferred for joists unless you are expecting a cyclone anytime soon!  Seems overkill to me.

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## Optimus

> Interested to know why skew nailing AND triple grips would be preferred for joists unless you are expecting a cyclone anytime soon!  Seems overkill to me.

  It would have to blow the brick walls down first... 
Every week you take to decide is a weeks loss of income.  Pay someone and it'll be done in a weeks worth of work. Then renters can start paying off your investment.

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## ringtail

> Interested to know why skew nailing AND triple grips would be preferred for joists unless you are expecting a cyclone anytime soon!  Seems overkill to me.

  And why use 12 mm bolts when 10's will do ? It's about making a pissweak connection a solid one at bugger all extra expense. IMO it should be mandatory and not even a subject that requires debate.

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## intertd6

> Interested to know why skew nailing AND triple grips would be preferred for joists unless you are expecting a cyclone anytime soon!  Seems overkill to me.

  triple grips on balcony joists aren't normally required, high wind load & uplift situations do require more hold down, from memory N3 non cyclonic only needs skew nails, so yes it does seem like overkill unless you're in a cyclonic zone.
inter

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## phild01

> And why use 12 mm bolts when 10's will do ? It's about making a pissweak connection a solid one at bugger all extra expense. IMO it should be mandatory and not even a subject that requires debate.

  Haven't seen floor joists disadvantaged by skew nailing alone, and the cost of triple grips and connector (or coil nails) adds up in time and money.

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## Marc

> And why use 12 mm bolts when 10's will do ? It's about making a pissweak connection a solid one at bugger all extra expense. IMO it should be mandatory and not even a subject that requires debate.

  I like 16mm bolts ...  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> Haven't seen floor joists disadvantaged by skew nailing alone, and the cost of triple grips and connector (or coil nails) adds up in time and money.

  Never enough time (and money) to do it right, always enough time (and money) to do it twice. What price for quality ? Not using grips is dodgy in anything other than a deck on the ground IMO and even then it doesn't hurt.if you're DIY your time if worth nothing and if you're professional you use grips. They cost next to nothing.

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## sol381

correct and using a coil gun to put 10 nails per grip takes no time at all..

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## Watters

> And why use 12 mm bolts when 10's will do ? It's about making a pissweak connection a solid one at bugger all extra expense. IMO it should be mandatory and not even a subject that requires debate.

  Thank you, agree. In the bathroom, once the YT is removed (this will happen shortly) and after the peripheral YT has been screwed down to existing joists through the bottom wall plates, LVL 100mm x 45mm will be installed (planed to fit) to provide support for peripheral short end edges of the new Scyon (a new joist will also go under the bathroom door and toilet door which currently has no joist support). The new (i.e. additional joists) joist lengths will be shorter (e.g. two or three bearer spans), in order to be able to be fitted. The new additional joists for the bathroom cannot be some 4.5m in length as per existing  when installed due to access limitations between existing joists coupled with access limitations (in height/angle terms) which will make it impossible to slide in new joists between the peripheral YT and bearers. Sure, you could put in 90mm x 50mm new joists and then pack them up using FC as mentioned in AS 1684, but no! That's just as bad a way of doing things as skew nailing alone. 
So, for the new (additional) shorter joist lengths skew nailing PLUS triple grips with new additional joists overlapping bearers by say 300mm has got to be better than skew nailing alone. 
I will not, definitely not, be removing any existing joists or messing with the existing bearers other than skew nailing and triple grips. 
The fact that some folks are expressing a preference for skew nailing alone to save time and money is telling and provides additional support for my approach to all this. 
AS 1684 seems to be a standard for the minimum required. Small wonder why on the TV news, we all see the debris of modern paper thin houses scattered everywhere after a storm, or we see houses floating away because tie-downs aren't mandated as standard practice etc.   

> Seems overkill to me.

  To you maybe, but to me it is not. I am the home owner (and "customer", if someone was a tradie of mine, that is).

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## phild01

And what happens if you skew nail a floor joist with no triple grips? 
Qld building requirements mean tie down from roof members to foundations.  Uplift is virtually nil at floor level.  How does a triple grip at the floor joist help?

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## OBBob

> And what happens if you skew nail a floor joist with no triple grips?

  mm ... then it'll only be as good as my 100 year old house Phil.  :Frown:    
I do both ... but in reality it's overkill.

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## intertd6

If someone wanted to pay me extra to put in triple grips that aren't required, I'll put them in all day everyday, but I wouldn't even do it on my own home as I can't see the point of the waste and time for no gain what so ever.
inter

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## phild01

> mm ... then it'll only be as good as my 100 year old house Phil.    
> I do both ... but in reality it's overkill.

  I don't see how it contributes in any way at all,  during construction it makes the joists feel solid but once the floor is down there is no difference of significance.

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## OBBob

> I don't see how it contributes in any way at all,  during construction it makes the joists feel solid but once the floor is down there is no difference of significance.

  Yes, I was joking ... as in 100 years and still going strong should be sufficient for a bathroom.

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## phild01

> Yes, I was joking ... as in 100 years and still going strong should be sufficient for a bathroom.

  Sorry, realise that but you said you do both.  I like built in redundancy but only where it is warranted!

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## OBBob

> Sorry, realise that but you said you do both.  I like built in redundancy but only where it is warranted!

  Yeah ... fair enough.

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## Optimus

Watters, don't forget to squirt some sikaflex under the joists where they sit on top of the bearers.... 
Also some double sided sticky tape between triple grips and joist/bearer connections..

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## droog

> Watters, don't forget to squirt some sikaflex under the joists where they sit on top of the bearers.... 
> Also some double sided sticky tape between triple grips and joist/bearer connections..

  You must use a lot of those products in your line of work.

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## Optimus

> You must use a lot of those products in your line of work.

  Yep, got a tool box designated for double sided sticky tape on one side and superglue on the other...  :2thumbsup:

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## Optimus

> You must use a lot of those products in your line of work.

  Yep, got a tool box designated for double sided sticky tape on one side and superglue on the other...  :2thumbsup:

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## Marc

I am surprised no one has mention anchoring the beams down to the ground. Best way is to drill a 16mm hole through each bearer in the centre between post. Slip a shackle through the hole and hang a chain from the shackle straight down in a 600mm deep hole and concrete it in. Safe as houses ...  :Smilie: 
Sorry couldn't resist.
But it would be good in hurricane prone areas !

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## Watters

> Watters, don't forget to squirt some sikaflex under the joists where they sit on top of the bearers.... 
> Also some double sided sticky tape between triple grips and joist/bearer connections..

  ROFL...I don't think so.  :Yikes2:  
Had an interesting chat with Pryda's engineers today. It was suggested to just put a type 17 screw all the way through the new LVL joists and down half way into the bearer and that is all I would need to do. Ditto through bottom wall plates and half way into existing hardwood joists below. I know someone on this forum said they didn't like predrilling but Pryda said it is important to do it not just because the existing joists and bearers are hardwood but because green hardwood goes brittle over the years such that when it is seasoned it can split easily. 
That said, a 50mm width for existing joists will only be around 22mm from the outer side of the screw to the side edge of the joist. I gather 30mm is the minimum for screw outer to side edge for hardwood joists. Pryda mentioned using a unitie or joist strap as an alternative to a type 17 screw. The guy I spoke to didn't have any good things to say about skew nailing, mainly because the brittle nature of old hardwood means that splitting is almost always guaranteed.

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## OBBob

Did you get it in writing?  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> I don't see how it contributes in any way at all,  during construction   
> it makes the joists feel solid.

  I think you might be on to something there. They don't make the joists feel solid, they just make them solid. Timber shrinks, expands, moves and rotates. Fixings come loose, corrode, break etc...  Maybe stop using glue under sheet flooring too.  Makes no difference once the carpet goes down anyway right ?

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## phild01

> I think you might be on to something there. They don't make the joists feel solid, they just make them solid. Timber shrinks, expands, moves and rotates. Fixings come loose, corrode, break etc...  Maybe stop using glue under sheet flooring too.  Makes no difference once the carpet goes down anyway right ?

   We are basically talking about typical 90x45 joists, aren't we!  Anything bigger has blocking for rotation.
Timber today is generally dry and doesn't move much at all once secured.  Let the job weather for too long and things will start to happen.  But even with the green structures of old, haven't seen issues.
Once the flooring is on, nice and secure.

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## intertd6

It comes down to OTT, OCD.
when I used to go to tech college we used to compare the silly stuff that builders used to think was extra quality, one of the silliest I heard was an apprentice & tradesmen had to make sure stud blocks were exactly 300 mm long & measured to the millimetre so they were centrally located.
inter

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## Watters

> We are basically talking about typical 90x45 joists, aren't we!  Anything bigger has blocking for rotation.

  Deep floor joists are those where the joist height exceeds "four" times its width and must be restrained from rolling over using blocking (end of joists and mid span if span is long). So, are you suggesting that even if a joist is just "two" times its width it requires blocking for rotation? No, no, perhaps you are saying you would do blocking if the joist height exceeded "three" times its width?

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## METRIX

> Deep floor joists are those where the joist height exceeds "four" times its width and must be restrained from rolling over using blocking (end of joists and mid span if span is long). So, are you suggesting that even if a joist is just "two" times its width it requires blocking for rotation? No, no, perhaps you are saying you would do blocking if the joist height exceeded "three" times its width?

  To put it simply, block anything that is bigger than 90x45, it not only tightens up the structure, but more importantly for the chippies it makes it safer to walk on them before the floor goes down, nothing worse than a joist which topples over while walking on them..

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## ringtail

Oh don't be so silly Metrix. That suggestion is as mental as using triple grips on joists  :Biggrin:

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## Watters

> Oh don't be so silly Metrix. That suggestion is as mental as using triple grips on joists

  In an earlier post you supported using grips, now you don't. Interesting. Well, a type 17mm batten bugle screw all the way through a joist, through packers and half way into a bearer is as good as either skew nailing alone, provides a better connection than skew nailing alone and doesn't take long to do.  http://www.allfasteners.com.au/produ...seshoe-packers

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## ringtail

sarcasm Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

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## METRIX

> Oh don't be so silly Metrix. That suggestion is as mental as using triple grips on joists

  HA HA HA HA - Of course it's a silly suggestion, just like most of my advice on here  :Biggrin: , What are you saying, you do or you don't use Triple Grips ?, Make your mind up RT your confusing me  :Tongue:  
This forum of late is like Ground Hog Day  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin: , Did someone say Toaster ?

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## ringtail

It must be Friday.  :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> sarcasm Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

  OMG I read the meaning of what you were saying, are you criticizing me, or trying to hurt my feelings, is this payback for my car full of gadgets ?  :Tongue:   *the use of remarks that clearly mean the opposite of what they say, made in order to hurt someone's feelings or to criticize something in a humorous way*

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## ringtail

Yesssssss, that's exactly it. Payback's a bitch.  :Tongue:

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## METRIX

PFFFF I turned the wipers on manually today, just for you, I nearly had an accident doing it, as I lost total control of the car, I hope your happy.
Next week I'm going to try turning the lights on manually, but I will do it in a safe place as it would be very difficult to do that and steer the car at the same time.

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## Marc

Mm ... this triple grip thing is still going? 
So what's the answer to the OCP ?  
I suggest to combine the blocking with the triple grip in one and use 90x45 offcuts and screw it flat side on the bearer with 4 100mm bugle screws, and screw the joist to the block the same way with 2 screws. Job done. 
I do that all the time.  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Difficult indeed. Particularly for you techno junkies. I hope you didn't get a boo boo on your finger from the physical activity. I, in the meantime, shall continue to drive the van whilst hand writing a letter and cooking bacon and eggs simultaneously. Stopping at the lights to flip the eggs on the exhaust manifold. Then I'll send a fax using the force. If it happens to be rainng I have a piece of string attached to each wiper arm and looped over my ears. Auto on/off ya see. Now, I'm off to the farm to plough a paddock with a couple of chopsticks. Time to get the turnips in. I suggest that you wear a helmet when turning the lights on for the first time manually. Even if stationary. You never know. The car might flip out and deploy all 27 air bags at once.

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## Marc

Turnips? Are you adulterating the coffee with turnips grind?

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## Watters

> Mm ... this triple grip thing is still going? 
> So what's the answer to the OCP ?  
> I suggest to combine the blocking with the triple grip in one and use 90x45 offcuts and screw it flat side on the bearer with 4 100mm bugle screws, and screw the joist to the block the same way with 2 screws. Job done. 
> I do that all the time.

  A number of answers have been provided, some of which are clearly not serious which affects the quality of input on this forum and actually degrades this forum. I am not the only one who will read this thread, others would like to benefit from it too. So it is not clear sometimes when people are being serious in their comments or not. Were you serious? Didn't sound like it.   

> triple grips on balcony joists aren't normally required, high wind load & uplift situations do require more hold down, from memory N3 non cyclonic only needs skew nails, so yes it does seem like overkill unless you're in a cyclonic zone.
> inter

  Pryda documentation discusses using triple grips for "multi-use" applications. This has nothing to do with uplift in a floor joist situation but is more a discussion of whether triple grips (or other bracket) "alone" is a viable method of "connecting" floor joists to bearers (i.e. no weak connection skew nailing at all that risks splitting brittle seasoned originally green hardwood bearers/joists), that's all this thread was meant to be about. Pryda have also mentioned using Unities or joist straps as an alternative to triple grips. An interesting suggestion was to simply use type 17 screws all the way through the joist half way into a bearer (my new 70mm wide LVL timbers could take that with 35mm to each side edge). Obviously there are a lot of people who like skew nailing but it is clear that skew nailing is not a way to make a great connection between joist and bearer at all. While a lot of people on this forum promote skew nailing, no doubt because it is quick to do and convenient, it is equally clear on Google that a lot of people think it is outdated and not a good way to make a connection between two pieces of wood.

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## OBBob

> ... that's all this thread was meant to be about...

  That's the beauty of forums... you only get to choose what the thread is 'meant' to be about.   :Biggrin:

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## Watters

> That's the beauty of forums... you only get to choose what the thread is 'meant' to be about.

  So it would seem. It is clear though that some folks, probably some of the skew nailing afficionados, are deliberately obfuscating (clouding) things and degrading the quality of input. That's not helpful to anyone.

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## PlatypusGardens

> The car might flip out and deploy all 27 air bags at once.

   :Rofl5:

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## Optimus

Watters, if you can't tell between the bit of banter and sarcasm in this thread you must have the personality of a dinner plate.

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## PlatypusGardens

> So it would seem. It is clear though that some folks, probably some of the skew nailing afficionados, are deliberately obfuscating (clouding) things and degrading the quality of input. That's not helpful to anyone.

  
I dunno what the problem is. 
A question was asked and it was answered on the first page - it's good practise to both skew nail and use triple grips.    :Smilie:

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## phild01

Funny thing though, AFAIK triple grips were only ever meant for rafter connection from inception.  Seems they have been adapted for other use and sometimes unnecessarily.  I'm out of here.

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## r3nov8or

> ...An interesting suggestion was to simply use type 17 screws all the way through the joist half way into a bearer (my new 70mm wide LVL timbers could take that with 35mm to each side edge). ...

  35mm, only if your batten screws have no thickness

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## Marc

I enjoy replying to any question, even the most pedestrian if I can. However it seems that is you who like to post question after question yet don't listen to what others tell you and persist with aloof proposals and obsessive compulsive ideas. 
So don't complain if we pull your leg from time to time. You deserve it.

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## METRIX

> I enjoy replying any question, even the most pedestrian if I can. However it seems that is you who like to post question after question yet don't listen to what others tell you and persist with aloof proposals and obsessive compulsive ideas. 
> So don't complain if we pull your leg from time to time. You deserve it.

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## PlatypusGardens



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## METRIX



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## Watters

> So don't complain if we pull your leg from time to time. You deserve it.

  Maybe I do. I won't be posting here for a while, I will take it from here on my own. A relative is in hospital and is in a bad way so the bathroom reno is not the most pressing thing on my mind right now. Thanks to those that offered useful suggestions and sorry if I was a goose.

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## mudbrick

Use any of the methods above just don't skew screw as that will split the timber most of all.
its going to come down more to access to each connection than which method is theoretically stronger than the other.
Try skew nailing a new joist to a bearer underneath an existing floor, I'd like to see that! The joists will extend beyond the bathroom area where the YT will be removed right? So the far end of the joist will be fixed under YT flooring so a unitie or similar bracket will actually be faster.
interesting Pryda suggested methods not requiring pryda brackets like the long screw idea.

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## intertd6

> Use any of the methods above just don't skew screw as that will split the timber most of all.
> its going to come down more to access to each connection than which method is theoretically stronger than the other. *Try skew nailing a new joist to a bearer underneath an existing floor, I'd like to see that!* The joists will extend beyond the bathroom area where the YT will be removed right? So the far end of the joist will be fixed under YT flooring so a unitie or similar bracket will actually be faster.
> interesting Pryda suggested methods not requiring pryda brackets like the long screw idea.

   When you've been doing this sort of thing for a while you just skew nail upwards from the bearer into the joist & it's a lot easier than the OTT OCD of a triple grip that's not needed.
inter

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## METRIX

> Yep, got a tool box designated for double sided sticky tape on one side and superglue on the other...

  How do you stop all the superglue going hard in the tubes, I find this a real problem.

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## METRIX

> Obviously there are a lot of people who like skew nailing but it is clear that skew nailing is not a way to make a great connection between joist and bearer at all. While a lot of people on this forum promote skew nailing, no doubt because it is quick to do and convenient, it is equally clear on Google that a lot of people think it is outdated and not a good way to make a connection between two pieces of wood.

  Skew nailing is a perfectly good way to make any connection, be it joist to bearer, rafter to ridge, studs to plates, skew nailing has been used for hundreds of years and will continue to be used for a simple reason, it works. 
It's not a matter if it's quick or convenient which it is, but because it does the job it's intend to do, and it does it well.
If you speak to someone from Pryda, of course they are going to say skew nailing is inferior to using a bracket because they don''t make nails they make brackets, (well they do make nails but only nails for brackets), in certain situations brackets are required as extra support for the connection. 
Brackets are used in specific situations. you don't throw a bracket on every connection made, because not only would this take you forever, it's simply not required.
On situations like open decks, yes it's a good idea to put some sort of tie down between joist and bearer connections.  
As you are very knowledgeable on how things are to or not to be done because you Googled it, perhaps you can make a few suggestions on the below jobs we have done of how these could have been done better, shock horror these were all skew nailed, and yes brackets were used where they are required, I can assure these jobs were mildly more difficult than replacing a piece of Yellow Tongue or putting a few extra joists in. 
If you can tell me a better way to build any of these roof's other than skew nailing 3000-5000 nails, please let me know.  
You seem to have become a bit upset that your questions are not being taken seriously, I can assure you they have been taken seriously, but you don't appear to be listening to what is being said.
I noticed you had a comment about your tradies you employ and how they do things to your terms or else they won't work for you, that;s great, but you don't own the forum so things may not be done to your terms. 
You have been given a lot of excellent advice by members on here, and you have asked many many many many questions over the last month or so, yet you still complain you are not being taken seriously, my advice it to take the information you have been given, correlate it all, think it over then decipher what you want from it, after all you are not paying for the advice, if you were it would be a different story. :Wink: . 
I'm not having a go at you, but appreciate the help you have been given, rather than complain.

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## Marc

I see two different colour rafters, that's not on!  :Rofl5:  
In relation to the confounded triple grip question, let's rewind a bit.
We are talking a few short joist inside an existing building here, not the whole house. 
So upwards forces that the triple grip is designed to work agains are non existent even in the case of a tornado.  
The (short) run of joist will be pressed down by the weight of whatever will replace the yellow tongue the cement bed and the tiles and the throne and the basin and the bath. Lifting forces on a couple of meter joist? Zero.
The skew nail will keep timber in place during construction and stop joist from moving. 
Yet with all that said, it seems we are facing a tradesman inquisition and nothing is good enough, ergo the jokes.  
I do things outside the norm myself sometimes and use a bolt where someone may use a screw and a screw where someone else may use nails. But I do so because I can, because I am not sure, or both. Yet I wouldn't impose my new found norm onto others who do this for a living. 
And that is why I do not use triple grips on joist. I use 16mm coach screws.  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

The other thing skew nailing does (which Pryda brackets don't really do) is pull the connection in tight.

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## ringtail

> The other thing skew nailing does (which Pryda brackets don't really do) is pull the connection in tight.

  
Tis why I do both and clamp the joist to the bearer before skewing.

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## ringtail

That sheet of YT in the roof cavity looks wet Metrix. OMG, YT in a wet area. Call the sycon police  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> Turnips? Are you adulterating the coffee with turnips grind?

  Not quite. I did plant out 12 more passion fruit today though. May aswell make the windbreaks edible

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## PlatypusGardens

> The other thing skew nailing does is pull the connection in tight.

  
Been trying to get my head around the physics of this statement......   :Unsure:  
How does banging/shooting a nail in on an angle pull the two pieces together?

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## METRIX

> I see two different colour rafters, that's not on!  
> I do things outside the norm myself sometimes and use a bolt where someone may use a screw and a screw where someone else may use nails. But I do so because I can, because I am not sure, or both. Yet I wouldn't impose my new found norm onto others who do this for a living. 
> And that is why I do not use triple grips on joist. I use 16mm coach screws.

  
Marc, you must be referring to the rafters we didn't paint yet, the job was not finished as we ran out of blue paint, but I can assure they were painted before the roof went on  :Wink:  
Come on 16mm, don't be so modest, I spotted you the other day picking up a new spanner, I overheard you saying it was for some new joists you were putting in, and you wanted to make sure they were really solid  :Biggrin:

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## Marc

Well ... it does even when only as much as a nail can pull down ... that is not much. When the head of the nail hits the timber and you give it another whack, that bit of pull stays put through the head pulling down. Because it is skewed, the whack is a bit relative and the force only on a little bit of wood, so, yes, better than nothing I suppose.

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## METRIX

> That sheet of YT in the roof cavity looks wet Metrix. OMG, YT in a wet area. Call the sycon police

  Was that you who called them ?, I bet it was, they were not happy we had a lot of explaining to do when this lot turned up.

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## Gaza

I think this bloke has run off to another forum to seek further advice, unless there is another person who thinks red alert is not an ideal joists material,

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## METRIX

> I think this bloke has run off to another forum to seek further advice, unless there is another person who thinks red alert is not an ideal joists material,

  Nope  http://www.renovateforum.com/f76/spi...nd-3mm-120018/

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## Marc

Mm, a 3" spanner it seems. We used those to tighten up the base of stationary diesel engines on the concrete block.  There was no one strong enough to use them singlehandedly. Invariably needed a piece of pipe to lengthen the spanner. 
Useful to keep behind the front door instead of a cricket bat.
PS
May be not, just a 2.5" ... pff lightweight.  :Smilie: 
PS ps
Blue paint? What! that is not treated pine H3? Sacrebleu!

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## phild01

Thread needs a rest

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