# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  Build my own house frame

## manofaus

So the framing company has told me that my frames won't be started until April. It's a 65k frame and truss. It's 24k for the frames and the rest is the trusses and verandahs etc. I'm cladding in weathertex so straight studs internal and external are a must. I went for mgp12 for the frames. I can get LVL timber for 15k, and the bracing for 4k. I'm no builder, but think I am quite capable to make up the frame. So my question is, how long would a carpenter take to knock up a frame? Assume he has an apprentice. It's around 180lm of frames. 2.7 high. I guess it's a 'how long is a piece of string' concept but the carpenter I am going to employ I do trust, but he only does Reno's and stand ups, but he said he doesn't really know how long it would take. So for about 5k saving and using straight as timber, is it worth it?

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## r3nov8or

Will the truss company insist on another "measure up" if you do your own wall frames? If so, they won't be able to do that until you are finished, and would set you back again. If not, I'm sure they will insist you are responsible for any errors affecting the installation of the trusses. I did 10lm of frames once, but probably wouldn't take on 180lm, and your carpenter doesn't sound that confident/practiced in stick building frames

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## sol381

Whether its pre fab or stick they would still have to do a measure up after the frames are in place or at least after you have chalked out the frames. must be a huge house. 65k seems a bit rich. would take a chippe and offsider about 2 weeks. including all bracing and tiedowns. A third person would make a big difference tho. Some long frames with big lintels are bloody heavy and awkward. Some timber suppliers can cut studs to size so that would save a lot of time.

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## r3nov8or

> Whether its pre fab or stick they would still have to do a measure up after the frames are in place or at least after you have chalked out the frames. must be a huge house. 65k seems a bit rich. would take a chippe and offsider about 2 weeks. including all bracing and tiedowns. A third person would make a big difference tho. Some long frames with big lintels are bloody heavy and awkward. Some timber suppliers can cut studs to size so that would save a lot of time.

  They wouldn't (and in my experience, don't) measure it again after the walls are up if they prefab the walls and trusses in one contract. All loaded on one big truck (if possible) is cheapest for everyone. 
We had 38lm for our extension, so 180lm for a whole house doesn't sound too over the top for a standard home with all the little rooms etc

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## manofaus

I guess the chippy can build a frame no problem, but he won't estimate the time for the whole house frame. House size is 280m2 conditioned. I am going to spit chips and focus on other things I suppose. My build is 30% over budget because of the timber and steel prices so hopefully I can claw that back with labour in painting etc...

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## JB1

I think for anything other than project builds where they built the same house over and over again, I believe building frames on site is the way to go. 
Owner built 3 times and there’s always something off that the working drawings/engineer overlooked. 
Also changing window height/location. Less of a problem with weatherboard because you don’t have to work with brick openings. 
Issues now is getting your chippy to come onsite for longer as he may have only accounted time for a prefab frame. 
MGP12 was difficult to get pre-Covid, hopefully you’ll be able to source it. End of the day MGP10 should be fine for 2.7m ceilings. 
Your overall framing/truss costs seem high (to me) but what can you do these days? The truss supplier probably increased the quote by 20% just in case there’s an increase in their material cost between quote and timber purchase. 
Last time I built was about 4 years ago. 34sq double storey with 1st floor approx 60% the size of the ground floor. Trusses including 400mm posi. $16k.   
S

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## intertd6

I don't know any carpenter that has the training to design & build house wall frames to the required standard and there would be very few builders that could be able to do it either, it has become a very complex task if one is unfamiliar with the standards, as everything between the footing to the roof cladding has to be considered in the frame design.
inter

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## sol381

If you're a carpenter and dont know how to do house frames. Give your licence back.  Not up to builder or chippie to design, thats on the engineered plans. Any chippie and builder can do a stick frame no problems.

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## intertd6

> If you're a carpenter and dont know how to do house frames. Give your licence back.  Not up to builder or chippie to design, thats on the engineered plans. Any chippie and builder can do a stick frame no problems.

  you missed my point, which was to *Design* and build wall frames, I can't remember the last time I saw engineer engaged to design a standard house frame, outside a truss and frame company one, that was within the scope of the standard, most architects or building designers just note on their plans " all timber frames to AS1684", because they don't design frames,  my post was in reply to someone thinking they could just get a load of timber & a chippy or builder to build the wall frames , they most likely couldn't without someone designing the frames first, if an engineer did design the frames it would be a few K exercise, there would be a few frame and cut roof erection carpenter gangs around that specialise in this sort of work and it would be a breeze for them to design and make the frames. A thing to remember is most certifiers require the total frame design, bracing, tiedown, resistance to wind loads to be issued to them before wall frames are even started , so they can check the adequacy of the design before the horse has bolted and frames have to be rectified after the fact.
inter

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## r3nov8or

Honestly, re building wall frames, anyone who knows what to read, can interpret it and can use tools, can do it. It's really not rocket surgery. It's surprisingly easy to be more concerned about quality than your certifier. 
But you aren't going to save much time or money before April if you choose to build the wall frames and have the trusses supplied

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## sol381

Every house or reno ive done in the last 20 years has had the timber sizes, timber grade, Lintel size, number of jack studs, etc either on the house plans and/or on the engineers plans. An engineer always comes out to do a frame inspection. I dont know any builder who would do the design. Its up to the owner to get plans and engineering done.  
Most plans i get from draftsmen or architects have generic basic sizing but the engineer rules.We always work off engineered plans. Maybe a lot of guys couldnt design a house frame , but then again why would you bother.

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## intertd6

> Every house or reno ive done in the last 20 years has had the timber sizes, timber grade, Lintel size, number of jack studs, etc either on the house plans and/or on the engineers plans. An engineer always comes out to do a frame inspection. I dont know any builder who would do the design. Its up to the owner to get plans and engineering done.  
> Most plans i get from draftsmen or architects have generic basic sizing but the engineer rules.We always work off engineered plans. Maybe a lot of guys couldnt design a house frame , but then again why would you bother.

  To value add to the service a builder or carpenter does, to get more income.
inter

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## manofaus

The only reason I went mgp12 was the framing company said they would be straighter then the mgp10s. 
Because og the wet weather I have not been able to build the subfloor so I have had the time to work on the doors and transoms which has been good. Got to find some hardwood for the door jambs now.

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## intertd6

> The only reason I went mgp12 was the framing company said they would be straighter then the mgp10s. 
> Because og the wet weather I have not been able to build the subfloor so I have had the time to work on the doors and transoms which has been good. Got to find some hardwood for the door jambs now.

   Timber is extremely hard to source at the moment , by specifying mgp12 you made it even harder, t2 LVL studs can't be beaten for straightness or strength, but saying that I saw a sling of LVL studs at Bunnings trade that were from Vietnam, maybe they were just dyed blue to con us all.
inter

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