# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  Owner Builders licence 2011

## phild01

Just wondering if anyone has completed the new and onerous owner builders licence requirements by DFT, and maybe share their comments.  I have looked at some of the modules covered and wonder how some of this can be of any concern to Dept of Fair Trading:
  Preparing to be an Owner Builder
  How to read the drawings and plans, interpreting Specifications, Basic    Estimating, Costing  and Cash Flow
  Administering contracts
  Managing the Work (Planning, Organising the trades and conducting communication on the site)  
As I see it, DFT are making mandatory reading for things many people can already handle, instead of making such things optional.
OHS items may be a fair call but eveything else is a private matter.
As I see it HIA and Workcover are in cahoots with the government and DFT to suppress owner builder opportunity and wrapping the business up exclusively for the building industry! :Annoyed:

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## ringtail

Bingo ! Got it one mate. To the authorities OB's are a real PITA and therefore make it as unattractive as possible. To them, OB means supervise and coordinate the trades, do the books etc...., they are really surprised when you tell them that you will be doing all of the work aswell ( bar plumbing ,electrical). Notice how the course is full of the stuff you mentioned but nothing on actually doing the work ?

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## jago

It's an insurance thing the government can say they have affective legislation to cover OB's but in effect it's BS.Its not about teaching you how to build its about covering their arses ! I did mine in 15+mins or so on the phone whilst standing outside the DFT I told them I was getting my wife to email them my certificate.... nearly  all the questions related to insurance and we all know that governments are good with insurance!

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## andy the pm

The legislation in NSW changed on 31st Dec 2010 and the new OB course is even more onerous and packed full of even more useless and irrelevant information. You also now have to have a construction white card as well.
My recommendation...do the online course, its quicker and if you click on the help box next to each question you get the answer... :Biggrin: 
Just a waste of money IMO.

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## phild01

Hey Andy, which online course do you mean.  I know of some but is this one compliant or is it last years that you mean?

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## andy the pm

> Hey Andy, which online course do you mean. I know of some but is this one compliant or is it last years that you mean?

  We did this one ABSOLUTE Education Pty Ltd its 2011 compliant, we had already done one last year! Went to Fair Trading on the 7th Jan to get permit only to be told old course is no longer compliant.... :Annoyed:  so did the new online one the next evening....

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## Oldsaltoz

Sounds like they are doing their best to get Owner Builders out of the pictue, perhaps anyone contemplating this should apply sooner than later. 
Good luck.

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## barney118

Agree to the lot as said to date. The council then slap on certificates of compliance which sound like they need to be signed off by a tradesperson in the feild. (is there such a trade in waterproofing and tiling?). Its all about closing the door on DIY and propping up insurance companies and getting more levies etc. BTW I did the course back in 2003 and DFT accepted my OB cert from 2003 last year, you need to get a OB per D/A to cover what? nothing. BTW I am doing pretty much all the work so any tradies that come on site have to be self insured and I dont think there is a insurance company that will self insure a OB who does the work.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Agree to the lot as said to date. The council then slap on certificates of compliance which sound like they need to be signed off by a tradesperson in the feild. (is there such a trade in waterproofing and tiling?).

  Anyone who does waterproofing should have a licence, they are issued by the Department of fair trading, only licences waterproofers can issue can issue a certificate, however Builders or OB can sign off on this, this means they agree to cover any problems by warranty for 7 years after completion. 
This might sound a bit over the top, but if you had to spend as much time and effort trying to sort out claims for failed waterproofing that building authorities have spent in the last 10 years you would understand that both the Building Authority and the purchaser are much better off because this eliminates the cowboys in the industry. 
I stopped counting after I completed my 2,000 th shower and have not had to go back to fix even one. 
It makes a big difference when all materials, methods and standards are adhered to. Our warranty effectively means that *any* failure of the waterproofing is our responsibility to fix, even if this means removing and replacing tiles etc. 
Good luck. :Smilie:

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## boo

I was in the same boat, doing an OB course last year, then fronting up this year only to discover that the one I did was not recognised.  
The online course was a complete joke as far as getting educated - I didn't have to read any of the materials and could (as mentioned above) just click the help button on each question which gave the exact answer, word for word. It took a couple of hours and cost $300. 
Fortunately, I have a white card already. 
But here's my question - why can I only get an owner builder permit once in a 5 year period? What motivated that legislation? If I do a reno on one house, then move to another that needs work, I can't OB the next one within that time...

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## zacnelson

Yeah that 5 year limit really sucks, although when I got my owner builder certificate back in 2007 I was told it was a 3 year limit?  Maybe it's changed, although I'm in Vic so maybe it differs by state.  I'm glad my 3 years are up so if something else comes up I will be able to dive in again.

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## Master Splinter

The 'once every x years' thing is to stop people running a house reno business/having a business-like cash flow on a string of owner-builder permits.  The purpose is build and live in, not build/sell at profit/build/sell at profit/build/sell at profit.

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## Bedford

> The purpose is build and live in, not build/sell at profit/build/sell at profit/build/sell at profit.

  Maybe so, but it's discriminatory against people who want to  build, own and not sell. :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Agree Bedford but the main issue as far as the OB licence is concerned is dodgy buggers knocking up crap decks, doing bad structural alterations etc.... quick lick of paint and then sell and move on to the next one. The issue is, the new owner has no warranty through a real agency like the BSA or building authority and would have to try and get the OB who did the work to provide warranty - good luck, even though they have to by law.

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## andy the pm

> Agree Bedford but the main issue as far as the OB licence is concerned is dodgy buggers knocking up crap decks, doing bad structural alterations etc....

  Thats why we have certifying authorities, to make sure the work is done correctly  

> quick lick of paint and then sell and move on to the next one. The issue is, the new owner has no warranty through a real agency like the BSA or building authority and would have to try and get the OB who did the work to provide warranty - good luck, even though they have to by law.

  There are plenty of people out there who struggle to get tradies back to fix dodgy work, whats the difference?? Not all OB's are bad and not all tradies are good...

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## Bedford

> The issue is, the new owner has no warranty through a real agency like the BSA or building authority and would have to try and get the OB who did the work to provide warranty - good luck, even though they have to by law.

  The same applies to a registered insured builder as well.  From 1 July 2002, home warranty insurance protects consumers including  subsequent purchasers, from faulty and incomplete work, *where the  contractor, or owner-builder, or developer becomes insolvent, dies or  disappears.* 
This means that if the builder decides to do nothing, there is now warranty anyway.  Home warranty insurance - NSW Fair Trading

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