# Forum Home Renovation Brickwork  Getting creamy mortar

## howmanyru

Hi folks,
Im a novice with mortar and have only used the premix stuff at bunnings. When mixing this for small jobs it always feels like wet sand. It never flows off the trowel like i see in bricklaying videos. It doesn't stick to the edge of bricks well or allow bricks to slide into position. Is adding a placticiser the only way to get creamy mortar that flows off the trowel?  
Thanks.

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## joynz

Brickies take ages to learn their trade.  Laying mortar properly is all in the wrist action.

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## phild01

> Hi folks,
> Im a novice with mortar and have only used the premix stuff at bunnings. When mixing this for small jobs it always feels like wet sand. It never flows off the trowel like i see in bricklaying videos. It doesn't stick to the edge of bricks well or allow bricks to slide into position. Is adding a placticiser the only way to get creamy mortar that flows off the trowel?  
> Thanks.

  I know what you mean, totally unsuitable the way it mixes up.  You are better off getting brickies sand and mixing your own.  There are additives that make it easier as well like Bycol, usually referred to as liquid ball bearings.

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## NRB

Lime is the secret

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## phild01

I think the bagged stuff has lime already.  I have found that lime mortar is not that commonly used.  Maybe it depends on the locality, but the loamy brickies sand is a common thing here, no additional lime.

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## cyclic

Brickies years ago were known to add a squirt of dishwashing liquid to the mix.
Don't know if they still do or whether they use additives.

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## phild01

> Brickies years ago were known to add a squirt of dishwashing liquid to the mix.

  Yes, heard that as well.  I think additives suit the slower bricklayer as a fresh mortar mix is easier to work with.  As it sits around for a while it becomes less workable.

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## David.Elliott

A "squirt" is too much and ends up with a very aerated mix, making it very soft when dry.  You just need a drip ot two in a mixer full.  Don't ask. Let's just say I found myself laying exactly the same number of bricks a few days apart...

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## NRB

Although my experience is limited to one go as “brickies labour “on my house build the mortar changed to a very smooth and creamy mix after adding a small shovel of lime or limil  to the mixer 
I forgot only once early on and the bricky gave me heaps

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## charlesb

I think all of these things will do the trick. Builders' Lime definitely does, as I've used it myself. Plasticiser would do the same thing one would expect, given its name.

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## phild01

Yes, what I have found that if your sand is pretty standard clean stuff you must use lime, the availability of brickies sand negates the need.  When I buy sand I can buy brickies sand which is useless for concrete or I can buy either river sand or Sydney sand which are both good for concrete but useless for mortar unless lime is added.

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## Bros

> Brickies years ago were known to add a squirt of dishwashing liquid to the mix.
> Don't know if they still do or whether they use additives.

  I've heard about that and I tried it when I was laying some Besser blocks and when I put the top block on all the mud squirted out, I never bothered after that.

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## howmanyru

Thanks for the replies. The bags of mortar do contain lime but the stuff is still crap for bricklaying. 
I wonder if the sand they use is washed sharp sand, ie no clay.
It's general mortar after all, maybe not meant for good bricklaying but usefull for small jobs. 
Any how, i will experiment with some different sands and will try a plasticiser as well.
I want that damn creamy mortar that sticks so well.
There is a video on utube showing a dude mixing sand and cement in a bucket but the stuff looks lumpy and stiff like mine.
then he throws in plasticiser and keeps mixing, the darn stuff goes soooo smooth like whipped butter.

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## METRIX

> Thanks for the replies. The bags of mortar do contain lime but the stuff is still crap for bricklaying. 
> I wonder if the sand they use is washed sharp sand, ie no clay.
> It's general mortar after all, maybe not meant for good bricklaying but usefull for small jobs. 
> Any how, i will experiment with some different sands and will try a plasticiser as well.
> I want that damn creamy mortar that sticks so well.
> There is a video on utube showing a dude mixing sand and cement in a bucket but the stuff looks lumpy and stiff like mine.
> then he throws in plasticiser and keeps mixing, the darn stuff goes soooo smooth like whipped butter.

  
The sand in the premixed stuff is not brickies sand, you need brickies sand for the clay content,buy bagged brickes sand an cement, if you are only doing a small thing, and mix your own and you will get what you want, you can add a little bit of bycol to help get that perfect mix, you can skip the Lime. 
Bagged stuff is rubbish.

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## Bros

From what I remember is is "Brickies loam" and it just looks like soil and looks like mud when it is mixed as opposed to the mortar used for blocks which is sand.

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## Marc

Depends what you are doing, what strength do you need? 
As a general guide, go 1/cement - 0.5/lime - 4 to 5 brickie sand according to how strong you need the mortar.
Measurements are in volume.

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## howmanyru

Yeah I just purchased a bag of brighton lite, a bag of white cement and a bag of yellow brickes sand. Time to experiment.
Going to do some pointing next and need to get the color right. 
Is 1 to 4 mix ok for pointing?

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## phild01

Not sure about brickies sand for pointing, what era is the brickwork?

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## phild01

This link may help: https://www.diydata.com/techniques/b...ting_walls.php

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## howmanyru

> Not sure about brickies sand for pointing, what era is the brickwork?

  Old 1960's house, doubt there was much cement in the mix as its all pretty soft now.

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## howmanyru

> This link may help: https://www.diydata.com/techniques/b...ting_walls.php

  Ta, good simple explanation there.

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## autogenous

6 yellow bricklayers sand (round aggregate with high loam content), 1 cement, 1 lime. 
It does take some mixing for the mortar to become plastic. 
Mix in barrow dry, then add water and mix till the mortar is consistency of bread dough for newbies. 
*aeration agent not needed. Aerated mortar requires more mixing to create bubbles resulting plastic mortar.

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## autogenous

I think the *prebagged mortar* sometimes has finer sand.  
Prebagged mortar may require extensive mixing to get great mud.

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## autogenous

*Aerated brickies mud* 
If using aeration agent, no more than half teaspoon per 6 shovels sand.
Aerated mud in some instances is not as good as mud containg lime.
Mud containing lime can be remixed with better results.
Aerated mortar ratio should be on GP (General purpose) cement bag.
Ratio usually 4 bricklayers sand, 1 GP cement, half teaspoon aeration agent per 6 sand. 
Add the high viscous aeration agent to the water prior. 
Over aerated mortar with too much agent will lead to weak mortar.

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## autogenous

In some cases *where sand is fine and high in clay* aeration agent 4 sand, 1 GP cement is better option as the mortar can suffer shrinkage. 
Aerated mortar requires you put bubbles in the mud to make the mortar/mud workable. 
Mixing aerated mud is harder in a wheel barrow than cement mixer to create bubbles. 
*GP cement is neat general purpose cement in the bag only

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## autogenous

Bagged products now have different forms which can be a trap for young players.  *Pre bagged mortar*
This is ready to use (Just add water and mix)  *Cement blends*
This has cement, lime which is usually mixed 3 buckets sand, 1bucket cement blend.  *GP Cement* (Neat cement)
Neat cement that is mixed with bagged lime and sand.
6 buckets bricklayers sand, 1 bucket GP cement, 1 bucket lime. 
Do note good bricklayers sand is desirable but varies in quality especially if a soil yard can get poor quality sand cheaper.
The same applies for plasterers sand. 
Avoid plasterers sand for laying bricks as it is sharp with no loam. 
*Ideal bricklayers sand is round with high loam content.

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## autogenous

*Warning - bricklayers can make laying bricks incredibly easy, a bit like that point where you know longer actively think about driving a car. 
Bricklayers can change the moisture content of their mud from summer to winter.
Too many variables to mention but heat accellerates hydraulic mortar dry time.

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## Whitey66

Holy multiple posts Batman.

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## howmanyru

Thanks for the tips auto, will practice as advised.

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## autogenous

> Holy multiple posts Batman.

  I kissed a girl and I liked it

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## howmanyru

Well, i mixed my first batch of creamy mortar and i liked it !   Added some lime and used white cement producing a nice light color to try and match existing mortar.
My take on this is the pre mixed stuff is garbage. They dont use sand with clay content in it. I believe it's the clay which produces the creaminess.  Anyway it's so rewarding to produce a nice mortar (bit sad that's the highlight of my day).

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