# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  Expectations

## OneZero

First time OB here. Just wondering if my expectations are a bit out of line here. Chippy has done a 9/10 job with getting our extension to lock up stage. However there are a few things that have left me thinking hmmm, I wouldn't have done that! 
First is only gap sealing certain points. Areas that I assume he thought I would have an issue with because I usually inspect on a daily basis and pick up on things I think aren't right. 
Second is the cladding nails have not been counter sunk/punched so I will have to do that before filling and painting.  
None if this was in the contract and I wont be making a fuss by making him do it. It's just one of those things, especially the gap sealing, if I were him I would have done before finishing up. 
Besides not leaving nails and screws EVERYWHERE!

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## Oldsaltoz

Perhaps you should have pointed out that the work should meet the standards.

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## NZC

I wouldn't have gap sealed anything.

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## jimfish

What nails has he used, I believe weathertex installation manual prohibits punching of nails. They should be left flush.

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## OneZero

> Perhaps you should have pointed out that the work should meet the standards.

  Don't you worry, I pointed out lots of things I wanted changed and that I thought was sloppy and they redid it without drama (to my face anyway)
But given this is my house I, of course, would take a lot more care than if someone else were doing it.

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## OneZero

> What nails has he used, I believe weathertex installation manual prohibits punching of nails. They should be left flush.

  Gal flat heads. I'll have to look that up and what the implications are of them not being flush. 
Right you are from the WeatherTex install guide "Drive fixings flush with the sheet surface. No punching is permitted" and I assume that this is for holding properties. Glad I didn't punch them all in!

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## OneZero

Alright. Firstly thanks very much for the heads up (pun intended) that the nail heads should be flush! 99% of them are with a few holes in an under cover area where they obviously had to re-position a nail or two. I'm happy with that. Might post some photos though because now I am unsure how to get a nice look when there are nails without holes I can fill. Quite pleased I don't have to go round punching in a few hundred flat head nails though!

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## pharmaboy2

Hi, apologies if this sounds harsh, but it may help into the rest of the job. 
you are the owner builder, he is the tradesman.  You have far more responsibilities than most owner builders appreciate.  You should think like a builder not like the owner - that means it's critical to have read and understood the plans, building methods, install guides etc. 
really, you should plan on a couple of hours prep per day to ensure things go ahead as planned, and make sure the plan is correct.  The builder is usually the person making sure the site is clean and tidy, that the carpenters install correctly, put sealant where it is needed.   
The fact that you haven't read the weathertex detailed install guide implies you aren't quite aware of the amount of responsibilities you have.  I know it's difficult finding a builder and it's expensive, but owner building is not the easiest path.   
if you have a private certfier, then use them for a full inspection. 
if you fail final certifiers inspections with stuff that's way back in the build process you are in a world of pain.  Imagine been told to remove all your painted cladding, flashings etc because the connections weren't upto wind loads?

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## phild01

> What nails has he used, I believe weathertex installation manual prohibits punching of nails. They should be left flush.

  Yes, there is a special weathertex nail with a nicely formed flat head for flush nailing.

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## OneZero

> Hi, apologies if this sounds harsh, but it may help into the rest of the job. 
> you are the owner builder, he is the tradesman.  You have far more responsibilities than most owner builders appreciate.  You should think like a builder not like the owner - that means it's critical to have read and understood the plans, building methods, install guides etc. 
> really, you should plan on a couple of hours prep per day to ensure things go ahead as planned, and make sure the plan is correct.  The builder is usually the person making sure the site is clean and tidy, that the carpenters install correctly, put sealant where it is needed.   
> The fact that you haven't read the weathertex detailed install guide implies you aren't quite aware of the amount of responsibilities you have.  I know it's difficult finding a builder and it's expensive, but owner building is not the easiest path.   
> if you have a private certfier, then use them for a full inspection. 
> if you fail final certifiers inspections with stuff that's way back in the build process you are in a world of pain.  Imagine been told to remove all your painted cladding, flashings etc because the connections weren't upto wind loads?

  Nup not harsh at all. You are correct and it's all a learning experience for me. I've read the install guide and checked out the work and I am satisfied that everything is done correctly. Gap sealing is only an aesthetic thing so no dramas with it passing structurally.

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## DavoSyd

> Might post some photos though because now I am unsure how to get a nice look when there are nails without holes I can fill.

  yeah, you should post up pics! 
if they are 'flush' then they won't be noticeable under paint?  
who's really going to be looking that closely at your weatherboards?  :Smilie:

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## OneZero

> yeah, you should post up pics! 
> if they are 'flush' then they won't be noticeable under paint?  
> who's really going to be looking that closely at your weatherboards?

  This maybe the wrong way to view the whole thing. However the reason I subbed out this kind of gig is so that someone more skilled than me would do the job better than I could. I've done enough building and fixing out in houses to know what I can and can't do and to what standard. I feel as though if I could do it better myself, than I should and thus saving myself $ in the process. 
They are flush but there is some swarf/ fraying of the weatherboard fibres where they have been hit in. Pretty standard. I'm not at home at the moment to test whether or not these will just come off with a scraper (I think they will). This isn't of concern now as I have read the install guide and picked up a few things that I need to check on which of course I should have been all over beforehand given I am the builder! Time to read some standards on waterproofing and tiling next to be across that. No joiners have been used when butt jointing the sheets in the groove. Each joint has snake skin waterproof barrier behind it between the stud>sarking and then weatherboard. According to the install guide then joining strips must be used when the join is off stud to allow for expansion in humidity of above 50%, not needed when join is on stud and nails should be >12mm from join (which they are).
If I find that there is no joiner used off stud my solutions are:
Chippy will have to remove panel and install
Add extra stud as internal lining not done yet and from my inspection this might be the case for 1-2 joins (it's a small extension)
Sikaflex Pro the joint because the expansion and contraction is 0.25% of the sheet which may equate to a 0.007mm movement IF the whole sheet is unrestrained, which they of course are not. Based on 0.25% of 2.88 sq/m of an unrestrained 2400x1200 sheet.

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## DavoSyd

> who's really going to be looking that closely at your weatherboards?

   

> This maybe the wrong way to view the whole thing.

  not if read in context of this:   

> if they are 'flush' then they won't be noticeable under paint?

  which is why:   

> yeah, you should post up pics!

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## OneZero

Join and nails 
=

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## phild01

Are those domed gun nails?

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## phild01

These are meant for weathertex:

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## DavoSyd

> Join and nails 
> =

  erm,  
so - where is the JOINER?  https://nhs.trade/shop/products_info...oducts_id=8487  see page 21 of the installation manual:  http://www.gunnersens.com.au/images/stories/products/Weathertex/rubix/brochures/Weathertex%20Installation%20Guide.pdf 
sorry, that is the old manual - here's the 2017 one:  http://www.weathertex.com.au/install...anual/?page=34

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## OneZero

Correct nails have been used. Joiners have not though. So added studs will be needed. Maybe... 
=

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## phild01

> Correct nails have been used. Joiners have not though. So added studs will be needed. Maybe... 
> =

   The nails in that pic don't seem to sit flush and flat with the board, any other pics!?

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## OneZero

They do. Just how the photo makes them look. Will have some time over the weekend to prep the area so I will take some pics of it then when it's all been cleaned and ready for painting.

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## DavoSyd

you can't paint it until the joiners have been put in...

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## OneZero

> you can't paint it until the joiners have been put in...

  I've been in contact with Weathertex and they way it has been installed is OK. It just circumvents the need to purchase the joiners which of course they don't openly promote. I'll be Sikaflexing the joins before painting.

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## DavoSyd

> It just circumvents the need to purchase the joiners

  the joiner strips are like 12 bucks for 3.6 meters...   

> I've been in contact with Weathertex and they way it has been installed is OK.

  throughout the installation guide the term "expansion " is given prominence - Weathertex seem pretty adamant that a gap is required... how big is your gap? 
i also note that where no joiner is used, the Guide states: 
"Weathergroove sheets can only be butt joined on stud with an Alcor or similar flashing behind."

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## pharmaboy2

Umm, I assumed the gap in the picture is a revealed joint, so the joiner they use is not a cover as such but a backing to the joint.  If there is some flashing behind it, it just needs some sikaflex to neaten it up before painting. 
looks similar to the hardies matrix system but not as well resolved so heaps cheaper to install - ie just face nailed etc   
And that hat is how good it can look - I suspect the one in the picture has been finish nailed inside the grooves and carefully sanded- it's also been installed on outer walls that are plus minus 1mm kind of quality too by the look of it- you are going to need a carpenter with much pride and patience though to achieve that look (and an owner prepared to pay for 3 or 4 days when one seemingly would do).

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## OneZero

> the joiner strips are like 12 bucks for 3.6 meters...   
> throughout the installation guide the term "expansion " is given prominence - Weathertex seem pretty adamant that a gap is required... how big is your gap? 
> i also note that where no joiner is used, the Guide states: 
> "Weathergroove sheets can only be butt joined on stud with an Alcor or similar flashing behind."

  If you look at the expansion value they give which is 0.25% over a full sheet that is 0.007mm. There is a gap between each board. Maybe half a mm. I'll risk it!

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## DavoSyd

> If you look at the expansion value they give which is 0.25% over a full sheet that is 0.007mm. There is a gap between each board. Maybe half a mm. I'll risk it!

  OK sounds like you've got it (including the maths) all sorted...

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