# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  Ways to raise trailer

## phild01

I had a trailer chassis made many years ago and seems they have since stopped business. 
Anyway at the time when when I picked it up it was way too high so they lowered the ball coupling and moved the axle above the springs.  When I watched them do this I am sure they had to flip the axle about because of the disc brakes.  I never queried this but there was some apparent reason that the workers there didn't quite get when instructed to do it. 
Well, now I'd like to raise it as the way it is I only have about 20mm of suspension travel.  Moving the axle under the springs will increase that measure another 85mm.  I don't want to raise it that much but may have no alternative. 
I am still wondering why the disc brakes made  it necessary to flip the axle around, when they did this, and am hoping those with trailer knowledge can enlighten me the best way to raise the trailer.  I was hoping to raise it half what the axle drop would do, say 40mm.

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## Bros

Ia this a trailer or camper as it is unusual to have disc brakes.

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## phild01

> Ia this a trailer or camper as it is unusual to have disc brakes.

  I made a flip out insulated camper and had the trailer chassis made up by a trailer company.  I spec'd it to have disc brakes :Smilie:

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## Bros

Without major surgery axle under the springs is the cheapest way out.

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## Marc

I think ... not sure ... but the spring pack has a centre to keep the axle from moving about so rather than making another centre for below the axle they flipped it around. You can do the same, as long as you can fit the brake cable and the arm. 
Mechanical disk brakes are the norm for trailers this days. I have hydraulic disk brakes on my boat tailer.

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## phild01

> I think ... not sure ... but the spring pack has a centre to keep the axle from moving about so rather than making another centre for below the axle they flipped it around. You can do the same, as long as you can fit the brake cable and the arm. 
> Mechanical disk brakes are the norm for trailers this days. I have hydraulic disk brakes on my boat tailer.

  I think that would be it as the axle and spring would surely be pinned and  perhaps the axle only has the hole on one side only.  But if not, and I pull it apart, it would again be an unanswered question in my mind.

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## Marc

If the axle has no pin and the springs have a hole, all you need to do is make a blob of weld in the right spot and file it to shape ... or ... hillbilly solution, run a bead of weld across the spring on both sides of the shaft so that the spring can't shift position. 
I am sure it must have one and the guys thought it was easier to flip the shaft around then thinking in another solution. May be that way it is street legal.
 Make sure you clean up those brake rotors, the mechanical disk brake are not as strong as hydraulics and may fall apart if you brake on a rusty rotor.

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## David.Elliott

Longer spring shackles?

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## phild01

> Longer spring shackles?

  I wondered about that but not sure what is the go, or how long you can get them.  Also need to get them twice as long as what you want to raise it, so 80mm longer than what I have  now.  Would this lead to any level of instability as they would be weaker the longer you make them.

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## ringtail

Just flip the axle. The way it should have been from the start. Longer shackles are illegal in Qld, not sure about down there. You will meed to get new spring plates and ubolts as these should be renewed if ever removed. Cheap as from any trailer shop.

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## phild01

> Just flip the axle. The way it should have been from the start. Longer shackles are illegal in Qld, not sure about down there. You will meed to get new spring plates and ubolts as these should be renewed if ever removed. Cheap as from any trailer shop.

  I have read that the plate and u-bolts would need replacing but don't understand why?
Also, under mounting the axle raises the trailer a bit too much.  That's the way they originally had it but changed it as the trailer sat too high.

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## Bros

One thing you could do but it will cost a little bit is to have your springs reset by a spring maker.

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## ringtail

> I have read that the plate and u-bolts would need replacing but don't understand why?
> Also, under mounting the axle raises the trailer a bit too much.  That's the way they originally had it but changed it as the trailer sat too high.

  
Fatigue and stress. They are cheap so no need to skimp. So, too high ? for what ? I really regret fitting cable operated discs to my trailer. The theory is so bad. The trailer has to push the tow vehicle before the trailer brakes work. ( assuming you have the mechanical slip type coupling) I should look to see if there are electric servos to replace the coupling. I really don't want to change brake set ups completely. PITA

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## Whitey66

The springs have a center bolt through the middle to hold the leaves together and to locate the axle and the bottom plate.
Axle and bottom plate both have a hole in them to accommodate the centre bolt head and nut.  
You will have to turn the axle around ie. left side to right side and place it under the springs.
If you just remove it and put it under the leaf springs your disc brake calipers will be on the wrong side and updside down. (At the back of the disc, instead of the front.)
As Bros said, you could have them reset by a spring maker but the way it is with labour vs cheap trailer parts, it may be cheaper to get new springs or secondhand to suit. 
Are the photos taken with the full load on it?
You can buy helper springs that bolt under the original springs to give them a bit more lift and make them much firmer.

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## phild01

> The springs have a center bolt through the middle to hold the leaves together and to locate the axle and the bottom plate.
> Axle and bottom plate both have a hole in them to accommodate the centre bolt head and nut.  
> You will have to turn the axle around ie. left side to right side and place it under the springs.
> If you just remove it and put it under the leaf springs your disc brake calipers will be on the wrong side and updside down. (At the back of the disc, instead of the front.)
> As Bros said, you could have them reset by a spring maker but the way it is with labour vs cheap trailer parts, it may be cheaper to get new springs or secondhand to suit. 
> Are the photos taken with the full load on it?
> You can buy helper springs that bolt under the original springs to give them a bit more lift and make them much firmer.

  Are the helper springs additional leafs? 
 I had one or more removed as it was too stiff.  I think I will resign myself to go under-mount, thanks for confirming the need to turn the axle around. It is almost fully loaded bar 50kgs or so.  Does it look overloaded at all as the suspension seems good despite the 20mm it has now.  It's a dream to tow too.

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## Whitey66

Yes they are additional leaves, so they are probably not for you if you have had leaves removed already for stiffness problems.
It is only too low if the axle hits anything when you drive it, I can see some rusty marks above the axle, are these from axle contact? 
Quite often the hole in the axle is the same size as the center bolt head which is often round, but smaller than the center bolt nut hex.
If this is the case you can just put 2 G clamps on the spring to hold them together, undo the center bolt and turn it around.
If the hole in the axle will go over the nut you won't have to worry about doing that.

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## Marc

Phil ... you had the trailer lowered by having the springs under the axle, then removed leafs and now it's too soft and sitting on the axle. 
Whatever you do will mean that the trailer will a) sit higher and b) be stiffer, unless you get longer springs with a lot of extra work. I don't see a solution to keep the same hight, the same soft ride and a longer travel. 
You could of course flip the axle, gain suspension travel and lower the tow point with a gooseneck in the towbar.
Or buy a new trailer  :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

Move axle to below springs.....too high 
then  
Get slightly smaller wheels....sweet.   :Smilie:

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## Marc

What did you do yesterday?

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## cyclic

What if you welded a new shackle hanger under the chassis either front or rear of the spring.
I would go with the front one for stability.  http://www.bing.com/images/search?vi...=78&ajaxhist=0 
That will lift front approx 70, so might give you close to what you require at the axle.
Only a theory.
 You will need to get under it and jack it after undoing either shackle/pin to find out how it will work height wise..
If a standard shackle hanger is too long, you could (a) make a shorter set up using flat plate steel (b) weld up the hole if necessary, and redrill the standard hanger..

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## Whitey66

> What if you welded a new shackle hanger under the chassis either front or rear of the spring.
> I would go with the front one for stability.
> That will lift front approx 70, so might give you close to what you require at the axle.
> Only a theory.
>  You will need to get under it and jack it after undoing either shackle/pin to find out how it will work.

  You can't legally go modifying a road going vehicle without the qualification to do so.
I was going to suggest moving the front spring eye bush hole down lower or removing those plates at the front and extending longer plates down lower, but both would require an engineer certificate I reckon.
I think it's the same with extended shackles, but sometimes you can buy a kit that has already been engineered for that purpose.
With a homemade trailer you used to be able to build it however you wanted, but once it has a compliance plate on it then it can't be modified by someone unqualified to do so.

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## Marc

Whitey is right. Whatever modification you decide to do, will have to be done by a trailer place. I had box trailer and boat trailer changed/modified/repaired and even when it is essentially basic metal work I can easily do myself, I had Carasel trailers do it for me. At least I know that the insurance if it comes to that, can not object.

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## Bros

> With a homemade trailer you used to be able to build it however you wanted, but once it has a compliance plate on it then it can't be modified by someone unqualified to do so.

  How would anyone know as there are no records kept just a check by a member of the counter staff at main roads

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## phild01

Yes, I had the chassis done by trailer makers with a compliance plate.  I thought about welding and lowering eye points but for the sake of the 40mm of lift I didn't want, I think under-mounting the axle will be best and worth a try.
When I watched them do it long ago, it took three of them about 5 minutes to turn it around, so I am not expecting any issue with me doing it.  Thinking of starting this one today if I can get it in a good working spot and jacked up.

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## phild01

> How would anyone know as there are no records kept just a check by a member of the counter staff at main roads

   It does have a VIN.

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## Bros

> It does have a VIN.

  Correct but there is no record kept of the springs, axle etc they are only interested in the safety aspects, lights brakes if necessary and measurements.

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## Bros

I've built a few trailers, boat trailer, collapsible boat trailer 2 box trailers.

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## Whitey66

> Correct but there is no record kept of the springs, axle etc they are only interested in the safety aspects, lights brakes if necessary and measurements.

  That's like saying it's ok to rewire your whole house without being qualified as the electricity company wouldn't know, they only have your address and meter number.
You can do pretty much anything you like really, but if the brown stuff hits the fan, I wouldn't like to be standing under it  :Smilie:  .

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## ringtail

Can we get an overall idea of what the trailer is used for and why it is was too high in the first place and why it is too low now and why it would be too high if the axle was flipped. I'm confused. It's a trailer. The higher the better generally unless it's for some specific purpose.

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## Bros

> That's like saying it's ok to rewire your whole house without being qualified as the electricity company wouldn't know, they only have your address and meter number.
> You can do pretty much anything you like really, but if the brown stuff hits the fan, I wouldn't like to be standing under it  .

  Can't understand your thinking but we have to self access home made trailers up to 750kg and buy a Vin number and plate for above we do the same but have to take it for inspection, the qualifications of the person doing the building does not come into it nor the person doing the inspection which is usually one of the girls behind the counter.

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## phild01

> Can we get an overall idea of what the trailer is used for and why it is was too high in the first place and why it is too low now and why it would be too high if the axle was flipped. I'm confused. It's a trailer. The higher the better generally unless it's for some specific purpose.

  It's a camper trailer as mentioned.  It needs to be easy to step into and wanted to be able to see over the top of while driving. 
But the suspension travel is only 20mm and I don't think that is good.

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## cyclic

> You can't legally go modifying a road going vehicle without the qualification to do so.
> I was going to suggest moving the front spring eye bush hole down lower or removing those plates at the front and extending longer plates down lower, but both would require an engineer certificate I reckon.
> I think it's the same with extended shackles, but sometimes you can buy a kit that has already been engineered for that purpose.
> With a homemade trailer you used to be able to build it however you wanted, but once it has a compliance plate on it then it can't be modified by someone unqualified to do so.

  It is against engineering principals to drill close to the edge of the chassis, which is why the spring bolt is in the middle, but anyone can, and do change spring positions by welding in new hangers, provided of course, they know how to weld.
As for compliance plates, any tom, dick, or harry, can replace a 6 cylinder engine with a v8 then get it approved by someone licensed to do so.
And on the compliance plate it states "changes carried out by owner" 
Most people on here are carrying out building, plumbing, electrical, etc etc without the appropriate license or qualifications.
I don't see a problem raising the front of the spring but like I said, it is a theory as to height which will be gained.

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## Whitey66

> Can't understand your thinking but we have to self access home made trailers up to 750kg and buy a Vin number and plate for above we do the same but have to take it for inspection, the qualifications of the person doing the building does not come into it nor the person doing the inspection which is usually one of the girls behind the counter.

  .
In NSW, the trailer has to be blue slipped by a qualified mechanic who has an inspection certificate before being registered.
Like I said in my post #21 above, you can build your own trailer (with no qualifications) and get it registered, but once it's registered it can't be modified by someone not qualified to do so.
I think this rule is really stupid due to the fact that the trailer builder might have no experience with welding at all and still be able to build a road going trailer that could break with catastrophic consequences.
This has been a bit of a grey area for years, I held my vehicle inspection certificate for over 20 years and the people above me said "no suspension modifications without engineers certificate". I argued the point that if these home builders can make them, how is it any different if they modify them then get them re-inspected? They couldn't answer this.

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## Whitey66

> It needs to be easy to step into and wanted to be able to see over the top of while driving.

  Raise your tow vehicle suspension and buy a step   :Smilie:

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## Bros

> .
> In NSW, the trailer has to be blue slipped by a qualified mechanic who has an inspection certificate before being registered.

  Your profile doesn't say what state you are in but in Queensland sometimes called the nanny state trailer registration is very easy.

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## cyclic

> Your profile doesn't say what state you are in but in Queensland sometimes called the nanny state trailer registration is very easy.

  Here in Qld, only with trailers up to 750kg unbraked, does self asses apply. 
Above that, it is the full certification by an approved trailer/caravan/ inspector.

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## Bros

> Here in Qld, only with trailers up to 750kg unbraked, does self asses apply. 
> Above that, it is the full certification by an approved trailer/caravan/ inspector.

  Correct but inspection is pretty simple as it is just a walk around and check coupling, lights, brakes no where as detailed as a car.

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## Whitey66

> Your profile doesn't say what state you are in but in Queensland sometimes called the nanny state trailer registration is very easy.

  Yeah i'm in NSW  like the OP Phild01.
In NSW you have to get annual checks done on trailers that are over 254kgs, so pretty much anything with brakes that's more than 5 years old has to have an annual safety inspection.

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## PlatypusGardens

> What did you do yesterday?

  
Nothing, just a joke line similar to the ones you see in pubs "Free beer - Tomorrow" 
Also, some workshops have signs with the number of accident/incident free days   :Smilie:

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## Bros

> Yeah i'm in NSW  like the OP Phild01.
> In NSW you have to get annual checks done on trailers that are over 254kgs, so pretty much anything with brakes that's more than 5 years old has to have an annual safety inspection.

  Do you think it worth is as from memory NSW is the only state with this requirement and you get numerous complaints from caravanners travelling about this.  
I have two vehicles one trailer and one caravan with registration across the whole year and wouldn't that be a nuisance.

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## phild01

> Do you think it worth is as from memory NSW is the only state with this requirement and you get numerous complaints from caravanners travelling about this.  
> I have two vehicles one trailer and one caravan with registration across the whole year and wouldn't that be a nuisance.

  NSW sucks for this, RMS would be prosecuted if it were a private company.  Thieves! 
Just hooked up the trailer only to find it still sits too high for my towball.  I can invert the tongue and gain probably 150-180mm extra height... but I locked the pin in long ago and not sure where the key is  :Doh: .

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## Marc

That is no problem, cut the lock with a grinder and buy a new one if you think you need it. 180mm higher is a lot. Then if you need more you can buy tongues with different shapes to suit. It's not a unique problem. Main thing is that the trailer travels at the right height and with proper suspension travel and if it was me, shocks to match.

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## phild01

> That is no problem, cut the lock with a grinder and buy a new one if you think you need it.

   Foundthekeybutnoluck.
Have another pin but damned if I can find it.  Grinder it is though. 
edit: Wrong key after all but found the pin...where else but in the car.
Measured the ball and I will gain 115mm, which will work out if I raise the trailer 85mm.  Checked my car stands and the four of them are rusted out so asked a local mechanic and he just ummed and arred about doing it.  I think he only wants lube jobs.  Others I went to see and nowhere to park, streets parked out by the workers.  Might ring another guy but probably easier to do it myself.

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## Bros

> Found the key but no luck.
> Have another pin but damned if I can find it.  Grinder it is though.

  Never seen a lock that a Makita key won't open.

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## Marc

Car stands, check local cash convertor. If not, Super cheap auto or appropriate size log.
Cut lock ... use 1mm cutting disk(s) + full face protection. Secure the lock so it does not move with wire, cable ties etc. Cut SLOW a bit at the time. Keep tool steady.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Foundthekeybutnoluck.
> Have another pin but damned if I can find it.  Grinder it is though. 
> edit: Wrong key after all but found the pin...where else but in the car.
> Measured the ball and I will gain 115mm, which will work out if I raise the trailer 85mm.  Checked my car stands and the four of them are rusted out so asked a local mechanic and he just ummed and arred about doing it.  I think he only wants lube jobs.  Others I went to see and nowhere to park, streets parked out by the workers.  Might ring another guy but probably easier to do it myself.

   :Runaway:  
Buy some car stands, jack the trailer up, move the axle, replace the U-bolts, lower trailer, done.  
OMG

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## phild01

Listen you guys, I know how to grind a lock off and I have jacks to raise it.  I just lack a suitable place to do it, just a bare patch of ground.  It's not like jacking up a car, it will need to be controlled so it doesn't twist around.  It weighs quite a bit, not a little box trailer sort of thing, pic above #31.

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## PlatypusGardens

> I lack a suitable place to do it, just a bare patch of ground.  It's not like jacking up a car, it will need to be controlled so it doesn't twist around.  It weighs quite a bit, not a little box trailer sort of thing, pic above #31.

  Nothing wrong with the area as seen in that post
get some boards or form ply to put under the jacks and stand 
All good   :Smilie:

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## Bedford

> But the suspension travel is only 20mm and I don't think that is good.

  How much suspension travel did it have when the axle was changed to above spring? 
If it had more than 20mm the springs have sagged (obviously, I know) 
Now if you put the axle back under the spring, you'll have plenty of travel and it
 won't be as high as original because the springs have sagged. 
Problem solved.

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## phild01

> How much suspension travel did it have when the axle was changed to above spring? 
> If it had more than 20mm the springs have sagged (obviously, I know) 
> Now if you put the axle back under the spring, you'll have plenty of travel and it
>  won't be as high as original because the springs have sagged. 
> Problem solved.

  That thought was actually in the back of my mind too.  No idea of the sag though as I never paid attention to it, should have.  When it was flipped around it was a newly welded up chassis with nothing on it.

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## phild01

I also noticed my jockey wheel is very rough, is there any easy way to lubricate the thing without pulling it apart?

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## Bedford

> I also noticed my jockey wheel is very rough, is there any easy way to lubricate the thing without pulling it apart?

  You can usually get the inner/lower half out by winding the handle up. 
This will expose the nut on the bottom half that you can grease which will help. 
Probably could get some grease on the tread in the outer half at the same time. 
Some grease on the outside of the inner half where it goes inside the outer half will help the wheel rotate better. 
There should be a bearing inside the outer half at the top of the thread, you'll need to knock a pin out of the handle to get to this. 
And go easy on any grease as it could end up messy. 
Hope that makes sense.

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## ringtail

> Correct but inspection is pretty simple as it is just a walk around and check coupling, lights, brakes no where as detailed as a car.

  
Yep. I turned my 750 kg 6x4 into a 1T payload, braked tipper with discs, 2T axle and 1800kg springs. My inspector did the walk around, took a few measurements and that was it. The biggest bugger is the increase in rego costs. Went from $85/yr to $254/yr. Frikken crooks.

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## ringtail

So how is going up 85 or even 100 mm going to change anything really ? What are you towing it with ?

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## phild01

> So how is going up 85 or even 100 mm going to change anything really ? What are you towing it with ?

  If you look at my photo you can see there is next to no suspension travel, a mere 20mm.  So I thought it should be more, and as I did say, I'd rather a comfortable step out height from the camper, rather than a bit of a jump. So mm's count.  As I also mentioned, turning the tongue around on the towbar will keep things fairly level.

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## ringtail

How old are you Phil ? 100 mm increase is surely not an issue unless you're in a wheelchair  :Biggrin:

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## phild01

> How old are you Phil ? 100 mm increase is surely not an issue unless you're in a wheelchair

   Hey, that first step is already nearly 300mm, need to comply with BCA :Tongue:

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## Moondog55

Front hanger needs to be brought down, legal or not to DIY that is what I would be doing, just go to a trailer place and buy a suitable spring hanger and weld it in place, and extension shackles are only illegal if fitting one allows the spring to spring-over and jam so that there is no travel at all, there is nothing illegal about replacing an unsuitable shackle with an appropriate unit, or at least not here. Not a modification it's a repair to proper spec.

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## Bros

> Hey, that first step is already nearly 300mm, need to comply with BCA

   Who's that the bottom step on my van is 380mm above the ground.

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## phild01

> Front hanger needs to be brought down, legal or not to DIY that is what I would be doing, just go to a trailer place and buy a suitable spring hanger and weld it in place, a

   Iwouldliketomodify
the supports as you say but easier said than done.  I only have one local trailer place and rang them today.  Was told they really only deal in spares and about all they had were some u-bolts and little else.
  I don't trust my own welding for this as my MIG is too small.  It also requires accuracy and I don't have the wriggle room for that either.  I think dropping the axle is my easisest option for now and see how it goes.  Knowing what I know now I would have got them to do mounts on the frame instead of in it.

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## Bros

> I don't trust my own welding for this as my MIG is too small.  It also requires accuracy and I don't have the wriggle room for that either.

  And it is overhead and vertical, that sorts out the good welders which leaves me out.

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## phild01

> And it is overhead and vertical, that sorts out the good welders which leaves me out.

  ...and me :Wink:

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## ringtail

Bring it up. I'll do it for ya  :Biggrin:

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## phild01

> Bring it up. I'll do it for ya

   hmmm :Cool look:  :Hmm:  :Thumbsup:

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## cyclic

> Iwouldliketomodify
> the supports as you say but easier said than done.  I only have one local trailer place and rang them today.  Was told they really only deal in spares and about all they had were some u-bolts and little else.
>   I don't trust my own welding for this as my MIG is too small.  It also requires accuracy and I don't have the wriggle room for that either.  I think dropping the axle is my easisest option for now and see how it goes.  Knowing what I know now I would have got them to do mounts on the frame instead of in it.

   
My present box trailer is all ali, and the spring hangers are welded to an angle which then bolts to the ali chassis. 
I am sure you(or others) could fabricate a steel section with the new hanger attached. 
The new section could be attached using the existing spring bolt hole, plus another bolt maybe 200 along for extra strength. 
I could make it if I knew the measurements but the freight might cost a bit.

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## CraigandKate

I only skimmed through but what about new leaves? You only have 4-leaf springs in there from the pictures which are only generally good for 600-800kg and I dare say the camper weighs more than this. 20mm is certainly not enough travel, there should be approximately 40-50mm travel in a standard trailer leaf setup like this from load to full bump. 
Also there is no issue flipping the axle to the other side of the springs, there is no hole in the axle for the spring pack bolt, if you look closely there is a small spring pad in between the axle and the springs, this is welded onto the axle and would have to be moved to the top of the axle and re welded on or replaced with a new one if you flip it however. 
If you do remove the axle please make sure you re-triangulate your alignment. 
This is my industry btw

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## PlatypusGardens

This could be a long thread.
I'll go put the kettle on

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## phild01

> I only skimmed through but what about new leaves? You only have 4-leaf springs in there from the pictures which are only generally good for 600-800kg and I dare say the camper weighs more than this. 20mm is certainly not enough travel, there should be approximately 40-50mm travel in a standard trailer leaf setup like this from load to full bump.

  For rego the weight came in at 596kg.  Might be more now, be good to get this checked but nowhere handy for this.   

> Also there is no issue flipping the axle to the other side of the springs, there is no hole in the axle for the spring pack bolt, if you look closely there is a small spring pad in between the axle and the springs, this is welded onto the axle and would have to be moved to the top of the axle and re welded on or replaced with a new one if you flip it however.

  The same axle was originally located under, it was turned around then raised, rather than just raising it without turning, if that makes sense.   

> If you do remove the axle please make sure you re-triangulate your alignment.

  This is the concern I have too.

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## phild01

> I am sure you(or others) could fabricate a steel section with the new hanger attached. 
> The new section could be attached using the existing spring bolt hole, plus another bolt maybe 200 along for extra strength.

  Would this be front and back of the spring or just the shackle?  The only obstacle might be the infill packing welded inside the chassis, need to check if the welded packing is both ends.  Is just bolting a new section rather than welding satisfactory too.

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## cyclic

> For rego the weight came in at 596kg.  Might be more now, be good to get this checked but nowhere handy for this.   
> The same axle was originally located under, it was turned around then raised, rather than just raising it without turning, if that makes sense.  
> This is the concern I have too.

   
Lot of quarries and gravel outlets have weighbridges as well as large metal recyclers.
Also some local tips. 
Turning the axle as you said will give you rise of 85 but you want 20. 
Triangulation is easy to do. 
Tighten the u bolts one side then measure from centre of tow ball/coupling/adjuster bolt to centre pin on springs then repeat the measurement on the loose side.
Roll the wheel back or forward to attain same measurement then tighten u bolts. 
Your requirements for 20 mm rise mean you need to drop the front 50mm if the springs are 700 long.
Piece of cake to make an insert section to go between the rails with the tongues hanging down for the spring to bolt to. 
New springs are top idea but you need a weight first. 
edit Front of spring only.

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## phild01

> Your requirements for 20 mm rise mean you need to drop the front 50mm if the springs are 700 long.
> Piece of cake to make an insert section to go between the rails with the tongues hanging down for the spring to bolt to. 
> edit Front of spring only.

  So then it would need two fixing points so the new support doesn't rock, as you alluded to previously.  I guess it doesn't matter if the spring dips a bit at the front!

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## cyclic

> hmmm

  Or you could come to the Sunny Coast (with the other 2 million southerners) for a holiday and we can drink good Qld XXXX (this will start another 300 replies) or Chivas, and do the job here.

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## cyclic

> So then it would need two fixing points so the new support doesn't rock, as you alluded to previously.  I guess it doesn't matter if the spring dips a bit at the front!

  Correct on both.
With regards to welding as opposed to bolting, if you are worried, you could find a welding shop to run some welds after you have bolted everything in place and towed the trailer to them. 
edit. just read op again, and you want 40 rise not 20, so easier to do but you might want to do both front and rear, but needing 40, I would simply go new springs 
To get 40 rise you will need to raise front only, by 80. (700 long springs)
Even easier to do when you consider a standard purchased spring hanger is 45 to the centre of eye bolt so + 37.5 to existing eye bolt, gives you close to the 80 you need.

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## phild01

Just crawled underneath with calipers and for a better look.  Calculated the outlook for dropping the axle, and the gain will only be an additional 20mm of suspension travel, so the net result will be 38-40mm.  Still not much and it is because the u-bolt nuts wont go into the chassis spacing.  Not happy with the way they mounted this thing at all. 
Still, C&K indicated it may be enough.  I would prefer to remount the thing but with days away from travel, I am a bit hurried.

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## PlatypusGardens

Aren't some leaf spring packs more curved than others = increased ride height?

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## PlatypusGardens

> Or you could come to the Sunny Coast  and we can drink good Qld XXXX

  
Note to self - BYO if visiting Cyclic

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## Bros

> Aren't some leaf spring packs more curved than others = increased ride height?

   :Iagree:  Spring makers.

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## PlatypusGardens

Been watching some of those Yank car shows like Roadkill and Dirt Every Day.
The stuff they get away with over there..... 
So we're gonna put a 2 foot lift kit on this here truck so we can put these massive 50 inch mud wheels on so we had to cut the old suspension mounts and make new ones which we just weld straight on to the frame then we're dropping a V8 in it so we had to make all new engine and trans mounts from scratch and we're just skipping the exhaust all together and running the headers out the front wheel arch which we're cutting with the sawzall to house the new wheels and there - it's done, we're going offroading woohoo 
WROOOOOMMMM 
Oh yeah this thing has no doors, windows or floor behind the drivers seat so it's a bit noisy.

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## phild01

> Aren't some leaf spring packs more curved than others = increased ride height?

  Apparently not from what I have found out.

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## cyclic

I have just been thinking about triangulation mentioned above. 
If you do decide to lower the front hanger, as long as the new hanger is square down from the existing eye bolt, nothing will change.
I was thinking building a trailer from scratch and getting the draw bar set correctly etc etc

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## MorganGT

> Been watching some of those Yank car shows like Roadkill and Dirt Every Day.
> The stuff they get away with over there.....

  We used to get away with that sort of thing all the time - it's just that if you did get caught you got in a lot more trouble......... 
At one stage I had all the bits lying around to build a 4x4 V8 powered Datsun 1600 that was almost a bolt-together proposition and would have looked almost factory built, but the hassles involved in the paperwork part of engineering something like that to make it legal sucks all the fun out of it.

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## Whitey66

> if you look closely there is a small spring pad in between the axle and the springs, this is welded onto the axle and would have to be moved to the top of the axle and re welded on or replaced with a new one if you flip it however. 
> This is my industry btw

  You don't have to re weld the pad,you only have to swap left side to right side when you put the axle under the springs. If this is your industry you should know this.
If you read the whole thread you would see we already discussed this earlier.

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## PlatypusGardens

Any progress here or is this lowriding trailer still dragging mudflaps? 
I'm thinking of putting lowering blocks on mine to drop it   :Biggrin:

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## cyclic

> Any progress here or is this lowriding trailer still dragging mudflaps? 
> I'm thinking of putting lowering blocks on mine to drop it

  Latest from Phil 
[Q  I would prefer to remount the thing but with days away from travel, I am a bit hurried.

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## phild01

I was told yesterday that axle under springs is not ideal, something to do with u-bolts snapping and axle going everywhere.

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## Moondog55

> I was told yesterday that axle under springs is not ideal, something to do with u-bolts snapping and axle going everywhere.

  Then Toyotas trucks are all built wrong then? News to me. I'd better change my trailer around then Hey??
Honestly I think it depends on the application and the size of the bolt and bolting plate, I can't imagine a 12 or 16mm U-bolt snapping tho

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## Bros

> I was told yesterday that axle under springs is not ideal, something to do with u-bolts snapping and axle going everywhere.

   Can't see that happen with good U bolts. I broke one tightening it up with a ring spanner as they were cheap and nasty Chinese U bolts. Mine is above the springs but that was just for convenience when building. Spring over is common with caravans to get more ground clearance.

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## PlatypusGardens

> I was told yesterday that axle under springs is not ideal, something to do with u-bolts snapping and axle going everywhere.

  
Who told you that?  
And  
How does having the spring resting on the axle rather than having the axle suspended by the U-bolt put more strain on the U-bolt?

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## phild01

Yeah. I know.  It was a trailer place I rang to see about getting some drops welded on.

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## Whitey66

> Yeah. I know.  It was a trailer place I rang to see about getting some drops welded on.

  I'd steer clear of that place, they have no idea what they are talking about.

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## Marc

There is however a smidgeon of truth to that assertion.
Case one, Springs under axle ... U bolt snaps, axle is trapped inside the springs so the trailer will swing widely according to speed but axle remains in place, sort of.
Case two, Spring over axle ... U bolt snaps, axle free to go, (if brake cables snap too that is), flies down the road over the edge down precipice and in bushes, enjoys a nice holiday until found by metal detector fossicker dude who sells it to scrap metal guy and is purchased by PG to make a sculpture.   :Rofl5:

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## PlatypusGardens

> There is however a smidgeon of truth to that assertion.
> Case one, Springs under axle ... U bolt snaps, axle is trapped inside the springs so the trailer will swing widely according to speed but axle remains in place, sort of.
> Case two, Spring over axle ... U bolt snaps, axle free to go, (if brake cables snap too that is), flies down the road over the edge down precipice and in bushes, enjoys a nice holiday until found by metal detector fossicker dude who sells it to scrap metal guy and is purchased by PG to make a sculpture.

  
Picturing above scenarios..... 
1: Axle comes loose, wheels still spinning, axle trapped between trailer and springs grind against trailer causing it to bounce and twist and come loose and fly in to oncoming traffic and explode.
Like in the movies  
2: Axle comes loose, quickly escapes out from underneath the trailer which skids behind the tow vehicle. 
Meanwhile the axle continues to fly in to oncoming traffic and explode.
Like in the movies    :Biggrin:

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## Marc

Yep ... the cars in the movies must come with C4 stuck to the chassis from factory.

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## Moondog55

If 'twere me I'd just go and buy the longest rear hangers plates I could find [ or buy a 250mm section of 50*6mm and drill holes]and simply replace the rear hanger plates. 
Then fix it properly when you get back

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## Moondog55

> This could be a long thread.
> I'll go put the kettle on

  Kettles boiling; where's my Teabags??

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## Marc

Tea? Who drinks tea? Coffee or bust !!  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Just a dumb thought but are the shackle rubbers still good? If the shackle rubbers are worn out there is 20mm+ right there

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## phild01

Made a start today after new tyres and battery drama with the car.  
All bolts loosened up nicely, now to figure how to drop and turn.

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## phild01

With the springs taking full weight of the axle assembly (no wheels), should the hanger be more angled forward than this?

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## Bros

Generally when the trailer is the way yours is shown the shackles should be slightly back from vertical not forward as yours is shown.

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## CraigandKate

I assume that picture is taken unladen with it on jack stands Bros, otherwise you are spot on.

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## phild01

> I assume that picture is taken unladen with it on jack stands Bros, otherwise you are spot on.

  The picture is taken with all the trailer weight on stands.  The springs still have the axle intact in free air.  Does this change things? 
I will loop rope over each end of the axle and use an adjustable strap over the top of the whole thing to take the axle weight.  Then I will remove the spring shackles letting the springs fall.  I can then slowly relieve the axle to the ground, rotate it about and remount under the springs.

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## Bros

While you are at it take a few measurements of the unloaded spring eg eye to eye distance from horizontal and length of leaves in case you have to come back to it again.

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## phild01

> While you are at it take a few measurements of the unloaded spring eg eye to eye distance from horizontal and length of leaves in case you have to come back to it again.

   Ooh, that might reveal sagged springs but good idea, will do.

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## Bros

> Ooh, that might reveal sagged springs but good idea, will do.

  If it does the eyes will be closer together as you can't make sagged springs longer just shorter and makes the angle of the shackle worse.  
Take the measurements in case you have to get new springs as you don't want the eye to eye shorter just longer to get the shackle slightly rear of vertical.

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## PlatypusGardens

Interesting jack stands

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## CraigandKate

> The picture is taken with all the trailer weight on stands.  The springs still have the axle intact in free air.  Does this change things? 
> I will loop rope over each end of the axle and use an adjustable strap over the top of the whole thing to take the axle weight.  Then I will remove the spring shackles letting the springs fall.  I can then slowly relieve the axle to the ground, rotate it about and remount under the springs.

  That is exactly how I would expect the springs to sit under those conditions. 
This may help with some of the dimensions, not sure the springs are the same but should be pretty similar.

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## phild01

> Interesting jack stands

  Kmart ones from the 70's.
The ones I bought 10 years ago have rusted out.

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## phild01

> That is exactly how I would expect the springs to sit under those conditions. 
> This may help with some of the dimensions, not sure the springs are the same but should be pretty similar.

  Thanks for this.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Kmart ones from the 70's.
> The ones I bought 10 years ago have rusted out.

  Don't make em like the they used to  :Sigh:  
and I bet the ones you buy today won't even last 10 years  :Rofl5:

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## phild01

All done, lot higher now. 
Only problem now is the tow ball I am inverting is seized up in the tongue.  Gotta get it out so I can tow the now higher trailer.  Hints other than wd40 and oxy!?   
edit; oh, the eye to eye is 715mm.

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## cyclic

Cannot see the pics in larger size (see my post in feedback "sum tin wong") 
Re- the ball, use 2 hammers, one held against the nut, and the other to beat the krap outa the nut, then undo the nut. 
Failing that, angle grinder.  Balls are cheap. 
On another note, you're a mod, why is the site still on DST.

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## phild01

> Failing that, angle grinder.  Balls are cheap. 
> On another note, you're a mod, why is the site still on DST.

  Not sure how the angle grinder will get it out of the tongues hole, but I am going to belt the crap out of it on Monday. 
Might be a mod but that one is admin. Where is the time incorrect, your post time and mine, look correct to me!

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## Bros

> Only problem now is the tow ball I am inverting is seized up in the tongue.  Gotta get it out so I can tow the now higher trailer.  Hints other than wd40 and oxy!?

  Is it a hitch receiver or tongue bolted to the towbar?

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## PlatypusGardens

> All done

  
OMG you did what everyone told you to do at the start of the thread....   :Rolleyes:  - well done, good job.   
That wasn't so hard now was it?   :Wink:

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## PlatypusGardens

> angle grinder.  Balls are cheap.
> .

  That's funny and wrong on so many levels

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## Bros

> That's funny and wrong on so many levels

  Speaking from experience??

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## CraigandKate

Tree trunk protector, big tree and a big bow shackle through the towball hole. 
Note it has to be a chain or strap with no give and attached to something that won't bend so you have no potential to shoot the receiver off anywhere. 
The nice core filled galvanized bollards in shopping centres are great also, I may or may not have done it before off one of those with a bit of chain also.

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## Whitey66

> Not sure how the angle grinder will get it out of the tongues hole, but I am going to belt the crap out of it on Monday. 
> Might be a mod but that one is admin. Where is the time incorrect, your post time and mine, look correct to me!

  Press it out with a press if you have one.
If you don't, try bolting the tongue to your car and put a jack under it and push it up with the nut loosened about 5mm.
Hit down on tongue with big hammer if needed.

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## Whitey66

> Tree trunk protector, big tree and a big bow shackle through the towball hole. 
> Note it has to be a chain or strap with no give and attached to something that won't bend so you have no potential to shoot the receiver off anywhere. 
> The nice core filled galvanized bollards in shopping centres are great also, I may or may not have done it before off one of those with a bit of chain also.

  Isn't his towball seized in the tongue, not the tongue seized in the tow bar?

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## phild01

> Tree trunk protector, big tree and a big bow shackle through the towball hole. 
> Note it has to be a chain or strap with no give and attached to something that won't bend so you have no potential to shoot the receiver off anywhere.

   :Unsure:  :Wacko:    

> That wasn't so hard now was it?

  Just a sore back :Frown:   

> Isn't his towball seized in the tongue, not the tongue seized in the tow bar?

  Correct.   

> Press it out with a press if you have one.
> If you don't, try bolting the tongue to your car and put a jack under it and push it up with the nut loosened about 5mm.
> Hit down on tongue with big hammer if needed.

  Got a 12 tonne jack, don't like my chances with it though.

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## Bros

> Just a sore back 
> Correct.

   Hitch reciever or not?

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## phild01

> Hitch reciever or not?

   _towball seized in the tongue_

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## Bros

Try again, is it one of these towbars where the tongue is just bolted to the towbar.  
or one of there where the hitch is removable with pin.

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## Whitey66

Have you tried turning the ball with a huge pipe wrench?
I had one one day that wouldn't budge after removing the nut, it turned out that it was threaded into the  tongue and the nut was an extra lock-nut.
Even if it isn't threaded, sometimes turning is better than pressing or hitting to release.
Give it a really good soaking with penetrating spray and give it a good tap to help loosen it before doing anything. 
Or you could put the tongue on the tow bar upside down, screw the nut on so it's flush with the end of the thread and give it a good whack down with a sledgey.

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## phild01

> Try again, is it one of these towbars where the tongue is just bolted to the towbar.  
> or one of there where the hitch is removable with pin.

  That second one is exactly what I have, see how inverting the tongue raises the towball height.

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## phild01

> OMG you did what everyone told you to do at the start of the thread....

   NotwhatIhopedtodo
but being impatient, was the easiest thing to do.

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## Bros

> That second one is exactly what I have, see how inverting the tongue raises the towball height.

  Yes I know as that is the type I have always had. At least you can remove the hitch and have a go at the nut on the ball. As others have said attack it with two hammers but it the thread is long and has been knocked about you will have problems. I have had this problem and was just able to get the nut back 10 mm then I cut the towball shaft with a hacksaw.

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## phild01

The nut is free and comes off completely, I will remove the tongue and take to it with a blocksplitter, sledge has a broken handle.  I'll undo the nut enough to protect the start thread.

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## Bros

> The nut is free and comes off completely, I will remove the tongue and take to it with a blocksplitter, sledge has a broken handle.  I'll undo the nut enough to protect the start thread.

  Never known that to happen as it usually the nut that is the problem

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## phild01

I expected it to drop out but I have one of those rubber shin protectors on it and now suspect it traps moisture and corrodes the tongue core and ball thread (incidentally the reason I don't like those deck joist protectors).

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## cyclic

> I expected it to drop out but I have one of those rubber shin protectors on it and now suspect it traps moisture and corrodes the tongue core and ball thread (incidentally the reason I don't like those deck joist protectors).

  When I first came on just now, I am sure I saw a post showing around 9.25pm, and it was today's date. 
I will check in the morning. 
I did mention a while back the site seemed to shift between DST and EST depending on night or day. 
Those shin protectors have a steel washer in them which will rust.

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## Moondog55

The solution to corrosion is PENETRENE
Or heat shock I guess or brute force or perhaps even Cocacola??
Don't most balls have a flat on them for just this reason? A big shifter first perhaps

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## Bros

> Don't most balls have a flat on them for just this reason? A big shifter first perhaps

  Never seen one with flats on it.

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## phild01

> Don't most balls have a flat on them for just this reason? A big shifter first perhaps

  Just had a look but no part is flat.  But big stillsons would be a good idea if my tools extended that far, they would need to be big!

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## Bros

> I expected it to drop out but I have one of those rubber shin protectors on it and now suspect it traps moisture and corrodes the tongue core and ball

  I never use one as I remove the hitch when I disconnect the van and lock it to the safety chains.

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## phild01

> That is exactly how I would expect the springs to sit under those conditions. 
> This may help with some of the dimensions, not sure the springs are the same but should be pretty similar.

  Thanks heaps for this, as best I could measure I got 715mm.  I have 4 leaves so if I am reading correctly I am good for 1100kgs.  Trailer is registered for 1000kg.  The weight is much less than this, probably around 800kgs loaded with 60 litres of water, battery and other stuff.  Good to know I am within limits.

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## cyclic

> The nut is free and comes off completely, I will remove the tongue and take to it with a blocksplitter, sledge has a broken handle.  I'll undo the nut enough to protect the start thread.

  I read it that the nut would not come off, so remove the tongue from the car, place the ball upside down between 2 bits of box tube or timber higher than the ball (steel preferred, and sitting on concrete), place the nut back on until it is level with the end of the thread, and a couple of good hits with a good hammer should get it out, but it will need to be a solid hammer, not your average claw hammer. 
If you cannot get it to move, then time to take it to someone with a press. 
Oxy will also work. 
edit.. I sent you a pm a little while ago, about the DST and lo and behold, it just changed back to EST.
Don't worry about it.

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## Marc

Phil ... did you free the towball? 
If it's still resisting, get one litre of kero and submerge the unit in it for a day or two. 
Once off, clean thoroughly steel brush, sandpaper whatever you can and spray cold gal on both. 
Yes, Cyclic suggestion is good but you risk to smash the nut or the ball thread or both. Would have to be a 2 or 3 kilo hammer and a piece of brass or copper to protect the nut. 
Funny how the simplest job tend to become complicated. By the end of this thread Phil will have rebuilt the whole trailer ...  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> I read it that the nut would not come off, so remove the tongue from the car, place the ball upside down between 2 bits of box tube or timber higher than the ball (steel preferred, and sitting on concrete), place the nut back on until it is level with the end of the thread, and a couple of good hits with a good hammer should get it out, but it will need to be a solid hammer, not your average claw hammer. 
> If you cannot get it to move, then time to take it to someone with a press. 
> Oxy will also work. 
> edit.. I sent you a pm a little while ago, about the DST and lo and behold, it just changed back to EST.
> Don't worry about it.

  Yes, my thought last night was to get some RHS under it and belt it.
Just read the PM, not sure what is going on.

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## commodorenut

> Your requirements for 20 mm rise mean you need to drop the front 50mm if the springs are 700 long.
> Piece of cake to make an insert section to go between the rails with the tongues hanging down for the spring to bolt to.

  This is a very good (and safe) suggestion for a moderate height increase.  Ford did similar with the Falcon RTV to increase the rear ride height (leaf springs) - the regular fixed eye for the shackle was removed & spaced further away from the chassis rail in the same way you described.  If an OEM does it that way, then you know it's been tested & validated.   

> I was told yesterday that axle under springs is not ideal, something to do with u-bolts snapping and axle going everywhere.

   Logic tells you this is crap.  Yes, the axle isn't retained within the "envelope" supplied by the spring & chassis rail, but think about the U-bolts.  But what are the chances of them snapping?  
An axle above the spring places far more tensile load on the U-bolts, as they are now carrying the full weight of the trailer (less the axle assembly).
With the axle under the spring, the U-bolts are only locating it, and taking at most, just the axle load during weight transfer whilst in motion.

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## cyclic

> This is a very good (and safe) suggestion for a moderate height increase.  Ford did similar with the Falcon RTV to increase the rear ride height (leaf springs) - the regular fixed eye for the shackle was removed & spaced further away from the chassis rail in the same way you described.  If an OEM does it that way, then you know it's been tested & validated.  
>  Logic tells you this is crap.  Yes, the axle isn't retained within the "envelope" supplied by the spring & chassis rail, but think about the U-bolts.  But what are the chances of them snapping?  
> An axle above the spring places far more tensile load on the U-bolts, as they are now carrying the full weight of the trailer (less the axle assembly).
> With the axle under the spring, the U-bolts are only locating it, and taking at most, just the axle load during weight transfer whilst in motion.

  Bit late, he has already moved the axle to under the springs. 
Now he can't get the ball out of the tongue. 
Whole new ball game LOL

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## Whitey66

> Bit late, he has already moved the axle to under the springs. 
> Now he can't get the ball out of the tongue. 
> Whole new ball game LOL

  Balls on tongues ??
I thought this was a family friendly website  :Smilie:

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