# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Kitchen Finish - Door options? - Melamine vs Vinyl Wrap vs 2 Pac Painted Polyurethane

## DaleBlack

Kitchen Finish - Door options 
A good introduction to the options here  Choosing A Kitchen Door | Blue Tea Kitchens 
Note- I am concentrating on Vinyl wrap in this post, as I was leaning towards it as a economical mid price way to achieve the high gloss look without edging but now have my doubts.
Options    Melamine  (two different levels of quality) Base Level:  Melamine PolytecEvolution Range: High Gloss Melamine (i think this equates to 'Mid Kitchen Budget Rane - high pressure laminate doors' in the above url link. Vinyl Wrap (wraps around leaving no 'edge' like Melamine and high gloss look like a 2pac painted door)2 Pac Painted Polyurethane ( achieves the no edge, high gloss look, can be repaired easily, hardest wearing?)    *Cons of Vinyl Wrap*   The heat from a toaster can delaminate a wall cabinet door just as the steam from a kettle can too. If heat deflectors are not installed on ovens then the doors next to the oven can delaminate.    
 * not sure how to make images insert larger here.   Warranty:  only 7 years for most with the ususal clauses - _"don't get it hot or near steam..."_ but how silly is that clause - its a KITCHEN of course there is HEAT and STEAM - seems to me, quite easy grounds for  Polytec to reject a claim within the 7 years.Durability:    7 years is just too short!,  i dont mean the warranty I mean the length of the kitchen lasting, if someone is spending 20-35k on a renovation (or less) its no good to expect to replace everything in about 7 years.  If i spend the above, I would expect it to last 15-20 years. Sure some fading and other dents or knocks, but not delaminating bubbling panels.24f-Common Vinyl Foil Repairs by Mohawk Finishing Products.mpg - YouTube  
Here is some examples of bubbling and the repair needed  Repair Loose Vinyl Cabinet Door Edges - YouTube 
Here is a repair where they ditch the vinyl to paint them..  thermofoil repair kitchen cabinet renovation cheap how to diy vinyl - YouTube   Can NOT replace vinyl wrap doors - the problem is 2pac painted doors can simply be filled and resprayed (like a car), colour matching is almost infinite with spraying particularly if you take nearby doors off in to the paint shop.  Vinyl Wrap, you can not put new wrap over a existing damaged door, you have to get new wood and then wrap that.  Colour matching is very hard, as even if you choose a white from a common manufacturer like Polytec there remains two issues. 1 - the vinyl is produced in batches in a factory and no two batches are ever alike - so you would see the new white as standing out from your other white panels (even if your other panels were only 2 months old)         2 - even if you could guarantee the White colour from say Polytec was the same as your original panel purchases, your kitchen would have faded slightly - you can NOT  account for the fade in your replacement vinyl wrap door whilst a spray shop can, just like in a older car repair.Tons of internet posts on various forums about VInyl wrap issues with peeling, bubbling - whilst few on laminate or painted.  I know salesman will say, only those with complaints will go on the internet , you never hear the good stories, but there is a alot of complaints out there  spanning years.   *Mitigates to my Vinyl Wrap criticisms?*   Place extra panels in laminate, around the stove (freestanding oven in my case),be careful of pulling out all appliances like toaster, kettle well out from the appliance cupboard each use (will kids do this...)Maybe Vinyl Wrap can be repaired without replacing all your doors at 7 years.  
see this website (note I have not rang them yet)  Vinyl Wrap Doors Perth_It is not uncommon for people to expect that their doors will need to be replaced, but there is a more efficient and inexpensive alternative. Vinyl wrap doors can be restored by painting them. At Dianella French Polishing, we offer a high quality painting and polishing service that will have your doors back to their original form in no time._N_ot only is there no need to replace kitchen cabinet doors but we can paint the colour of your choice for a brand new look and feel_ I am quite skeptical of this mainly because I havent seen any other information on the net about it. But will ask them some questions.   Maybe in 2014,  the technology in the adhesives between the MDF and substrate is superior to the problem past? I saw this comment  _" It has happened to a small percentage of doors made using a spray adhesive and has effected all manufacturers which use this method. There is another method which uses a membrane film between the vinyl and the MDF. Its been very common in the UK and USA but has only been used in Australia by a handful of manufacturers for the last 5 or 6 years at most. Its now being marketed as ThermalFusion or TF"_

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## DaleBlack

Hi, 2nd part to the thread.  *Melamine Finish - what options and brand recommendations within this product type* 
* my preference would be 2k Painted but one quote, jumped 10k just for that finish. I have seen posts around the net that say 2pack Polyurethane costs the same as Vinyl but I havent seen evidence of this. So I think I am back to Melamine    Can you get recessed finger pull doors ie. w no handles?What options are there to minimize the edging joint which is the main cosmetic downfall of melamine.  
just to be clear here is the Cosmetic issue of Melamine.   
I realise Melamine can not be routed or patterned like Painted or Vinyl Wrap but given it appears that at least now ,2014, a seamless flat gloss look is quite popular, the old limitations of melamine not being able to be shaped (only flat) are not an issue with this look below.  
I have been quoted on Polytec Melamine Polytec 
and  
Polytex Evolution in particular the the Createc range. (same as above but has a Glossy finish) http://www.polytec.com.au/brochures/...1402884946.pdf 
Cons of Createc to standard Melamine   Pushed up the price by $1000 over Polytec MelamineHigh Gloss doors are more susceptible than non gloss, to being scratched and can not be repaired (minor marks polished out) like 2k Paint.  
Maybe standard Melamine in Sheen is the better option. ie. Halfway to Gloss.

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## Pitto

for me and my recommendations are as follows. you need to understand, i did 10 years of commercial highrise appartments before going all out on my own business, and never once was vinyl wrap specified. The only people who make money from vinyl wrap are the hardware / suppliers. Its just a bad product. 
for me, my low end product is Formica Snowdrift / Warmwhite gloss with 1mm edge, sure you end up with a hairline join, but you still get a high class look for a budget. 
Then its Ultraglaze, Stylite acrylic, and one again you get a hairline join, but a high glass like finish 
Then its 2pac.

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## DaleBlack

> for me and my recommendations are as follows. you need to understand, i did 10 years of commercial highrise appartments before going all out on my own business, and never once was vinyl wrap specified. The only people who make money from vinyl wrap are the hardware / suppliers. Its just a bad product. 
> for me, my low end product is Formica Snowdrift / Warmwhite gloss with 1mm edge, sure you end up with a hairline join, but you still get a high class look for a budget. 
> Then its Ultraglaze, Stylite acrylic, and one again you get a hairline join, but a high glass like finish 
> Then its 2pac.

  Hi thanks Pitto 
So, would you rate *Formtek UltraGlaze to the level of Polytec Melamin*e  
I see UltraGlaze talks about Laser Fusion so as the typical joint edge isnt as obvious.  http://www.biemels.com.au/wp-content...CHURE-2014.pdf 
Which edge option do you tend to use?  
1 Matching Edge
2 Glass BEad Edge
3 ALuminum    *Stylite acrylic to the Polytex Evolution - Createc range?* 
Stylite acrylic is still MDF board right? does acrylic imply its sprayed with acrylic gloss clear paint?  http://www.stylelite-aca.com/sites/d...ochure_web.pdf 
I note, the brochure, seems to address one of my concerns being the edge joint, it says in the brochure that   

> Edge Tape 
> A near seamless appearance can be achieved using  StyleLite high gloss ABS colour matched edge tape. Many other contrast and dual colour tapes can be used to  achieve a sophisticated and contemporary style.

  It also says you can polish minor scractches out which I didnt think on the Polytec Createc range you could?
I am in WA, not sure how many people here have these laser fusion machines, I ve only been offered Polytec thus far. Id just like to get better in melamine then this look below

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## DaleBlack

Interesting discussion on Ultraglaze vs 2pac here  View topic - doors - 2 pac or acrylic ? â¢ Home Renovation & Building Forum  
but I am more interested in the Intra Melamine ranges and brands, which one is better and has the smallest edge visually.

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## Random Username

From my experience with vinyl wrap - it's in the 'never again' basket.

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## phild01

:Arrow Up:  agree with that sentiment.

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## DaleBlack

> From my experience with vinyl wrap - it's in the 'never again' basket.

   

> agree with that sentiment.

  yep, I am in agreement with you guys on vinyl wrap. Do you have any opinions on the options within the melamine 'world', which ones have a minimal edge etc?

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## Pitto

Ultraglaze and Stylite are the same type of product. The acrylic sheet is bonded to the MDF substraight much like the melamine board. The acrylic sheet has a special cleaner and there is a kit you can buy to buff out the scratches. 
I have done 4 kitchens so far in the stylite / ultraglaze product and its pretty good. I tend to use the matching 1mm edge. the 3d two-tone edge is expensive for what it is. 
alot of companies have not yet upgraded to the laser / PU edgebanding  machines due to the high cost [$150k+] so its still a rare thing to come  across a company running them at the moment. The hairline join in  edging isnt that bad, it tends to get noticed when a company runs panel  saws with the scribe blade, however CNC routers dont have this problem,  and the joins are pretty tight. 
When budgets get stretched, i would go the formica snowdrift gloss board everytime. its gloss level isnt as high as the stylite, however it does not cost as much either.  
2mm edging show the join alot more than 1mm. I tend to do alot of 1mm edging 
I do work over in Perth, The kitchen companies tend to push vinyl wrap. and they tend to market it as a higher finish than 2pac, which is wrong.  
2pac in Perth is expensive. I dont know why, but i pay 3x the price i pay over here on the Gold Coast for a guy in Perth.

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## DaleBlack

Hi Pitto   you mentioned    _"for me, my low end product is Formica Snowdrift / Warmwhite gloss with 1mm edge, sure you end up with a hairline join, but you still get a high class look for a budget."_   can you post a high quality closeup of these edges, similar to the edge I posted further up.    Also what do you think of just going sheen in Formica or Polytec rather than the Gloss?

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## DaleBlack

Here is an image comparing   2mm edged and by the looks non colour matched edging - this is a ACTUAL image of a under construction cabinet vs the 1mm/laser cut/colour matched Formtek Ultraglaz edge, but note its a promotional image,         so be a bit hard to compare. But its pretty impressive.    I assume 1mm edging and colour matching can still be ordered for the Polytek Melamine or Createc range as well?     Be good to see if any cabinet makers here can post in a ACTUAL image of their own melamine in 1mm and colour matched.

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## r3nov8or

Agree vinyl wrap is a 'never again' proposition. I'm wondering if the painting option relates to stripping the door clean and painting the MDF? You certainly couldn't touch up chipped edges etc and be totally happy.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> Here is an image comparing   2mm edged and by the looks non colour matched edging - this is a ACTUAL image of a under construction cabinet vs the 1mm/laser cut/colour matched Formtek Ultraglaz edge, but note its a promotional image,         so be a bit hard to compare. But its pretty impressive.    I assume 1mm edging and colour matching can still be ordered for the Polytek Melamine or Createc range as well?     Be good to see if any cabinet makers here can post in a ACTUAL image of their own melamine in 1mm and colour matched.

         
The image of the melamine door looks like the backside of the door. What you are seeing is actually the scribe blade cut. It should look a lot better from the front!!

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## DaleBlack

> The image of the melamine door looks like the backside of the door. What you are seeing is actually the scribe blade cut. It should look a lot better from the front!!

    the edging is not colour matched though is it? different shades of white

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> the edging is not colour matched though is it? different shades of white

  It looks like a basic low end melamine so the edge may be slightly different. If you buy sheets from Laminex or Poytec the edge will match

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## Pitto

> Hi Pitto   you mentioned    _"for me, my low end product is Formica Snowdrift / Warmwhite gloss with 1mm edge, sure you end up with a hairline join, but you still get a high class look for a budget."_   can you post a high quality closeup of these edges, similar to the edge I posted further up.    Also what do you think of just going sheen in Formica or Polytec rather than the Gloss?

  will see what i can do, I think you are overthinking the hairline join. in reality It isnt that bad, the picture that you posted up looks awfully bad, and even looks like its been applied by hand.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> will see what i can do, I think you are overthinking the hairline join. in reality It isnt that bad, the picture that you posted up looks awfully bad, and even looks like its been applied by hand.

  Totally agree!! 
You can se the hairline join up close but take a step back and you don't notice it!

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## Pitto

closeup of the pantry door, ultraglaze with edging done by standard hot glue edgebander, panels machined with CNC.

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## Pitto

but from this distance, you cant see the hairline joins

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## Pitto



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## phild01

Like the look of that!

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## DaleBlack

Hi    I probably am overthinking the edge, but this is all new to me and I really prefer researching first and then settling on a decision. As its multi thousands that for me will be around10-20 years we want to be happy. I would hate to hear about options after its built and think why didn't I do that.  Maybe that picture spooked me as you say.     Thanks for posting those pictures in here it helps.      I have just realized that Polytec Createc, can be ordered with a Lasercut and 1mm ABS colour matched. Here in WA, that option costs about $500 more and the shops need to obtain the doors/panels from Polytec's NSW factory as they only have CNC machines.    However your image shows a CNC machine cut and its pretty good, wondering if the laser cut will be worth it. Going to a showroom to see std Polytek Melamine vs Polyteck Createc with Lasercut.

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## Pitto

Yeah, I know where you are coming from, However when it comes to kitchen renovations, the budget only stretches so far, so somewhere along the way you end up compromising on one thing or another. 
There isnt alot of companies here on the east coast who have the new laser machines for edging. the ones who do are the board companies who want you to order their "doors" from them, which they put up a nice markup on and this then ends up costing more if you were to get your local cabinetmaker to cut and edge the doors thru a normal hot melt glue machine. There is also an issue with transport for WA, and if for some reason one panel gets damaged, the kitchen can be held up for a few weeks while a new one is rerun and freighted over to WA 
I do alot of kitchens in the Formica Snowdrift sheen / gloss finish with the 1mm edge and my clients love it. I am yet to have one complain about the hairline, mainly because we have been thru all the nitty gritty items that we are trying to squeeze into the budget. this year alone i have done 4 kitchens in Perth, 
i think get your kitchen / cabinetmaker to give you a sample of the finished item to set your mind at ease.  
Are you NOR or SOR?

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## DaleBlack

So I have now compared Polyteck Laser Edged vs non laser edged. (Createc vs Melamine Sheen in the polytek range) - it does sort of seem superior the laser edged in the photo? what do you think? that Air tec door seems slightly better again, apparently no glue so no line whatsoever.    Price? one kitchen company quoted me 'only' 500 more to have the laser edge w doors supplied by Polytek not them. (as you pointed out the board companies want to be the only ones w the superior equipment)..      However despite all that, I could probably live with the std melamine 1mm ABS , CNC cut as shown above in your images and also in my visits to a couple of showrooms. I am NOR.

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## Pitto

if you are up near wangara, drop into Qualiform and see Paulo or David, and ask to see a typical sample from their machine. The CNC all their doors, and use a standard edging machine.  
They also do vinylwrap, so be warned, they will probably try and sell that.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
personally, for $500, i wouldnt go the laser edged doors. I just dont think its warranted. $500 can go into things such as nice splashbacks, better drawer systems, LED light systems, better benchtops

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## DaleBlack

Hi Pitto,  looks like due to budget and things like better stone (island bench w waterfalls and 40mm for all stone) I have 'downgraded' to Polytek Melamine (in sheen not gloss though, wife doesnt want Gloss), I have now viewed enough kitchens in real life to agree with you and your post above showing the Hairline join, its not that bad at all, and not like that image I originally posted which was particularly bad.

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## Pitto

:2thumbsup:  
I have done alot of the Polytec Classic White Sheen in the past, Now do alot in the Formica Snowdrift / warm white gloss [ sheen] and they really do look great. The price also alows for you to invest the money saved into other areas of the kitchen. 
I think you [and your wallet] will be happy overall with your decision. Kitchens [and bathrooms] can get out of hand when specifying finishes and hardware, unfortunately, the budget only stretches so far. 
No point doing a flash kitchen, just to live on vegemite sandwiches for the next 10 years  :Biggrin:

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## phild01

> I have done alot of the Polytec Classic White Sheen in the past, Now do alot in the Formica Snowdrift / warm white gloss [ sheen] and they really do look great. The price also alows for you to invest the money saved into other areas of the kitchen. 
> I think you [and your wallet] will be happy overall with your decision. Kitchens [and bathrooms] can get out of hand when specifying finishes and hardware, unfortunately, the budget only stretches so far. 
> No point doing a flash kitchen, just to live on vegemite sandwiches for the next 10 years

  Quite interested in what you say about (Formica Snowdrift / warm white gloss [ sheen]) and I am also considering polyurethane doors.  I might have to forget about Polytec as they will only deal with cabinet makers now.

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## Dimi

Economy and best finish don't go hand in hand. I would look at a urethane not more expensive polyurethane however it won't be as durable you'll get the nice clean look. Vinyl wrap needs heat shield trims around the oven and oversize panels can't be done. Also some returns on the same panel can be restrictive. Not a good product. I've been a cabinetmaker for over 16 years now and in my humble opinion painted doors are easier to repair and reasonably economical. There is a clear coated baked finish that can be done over edged melamine but very expensive. Go painted. You can repair or even change colour in the future. Vinyl stock also get changed every few years so you can't get the same colour or shade again. Melamine is great but we've all seen edge strip coming of the most opened door even ABS

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