# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Leaking pan collar on toilet

## renov8or

Replaced toilet 5 years ago and fitted new collar. Holman 100mm M-F PVC DWV Pan Collar I/N 4770373 | Bunnings Warehouse Have noticed it start to drip lately and getting worse. It is dripping from the seal between the pan outlet and the rubber boot as the drip is running from the upper side of the collar ring on the underside (see picture). I have a little room to pull the collar ring out but restricted on the lower side by the cast of the bowl - reinforcement of the outlet pipe.  
I am guessing I need to slide something greased between the pan outlet pipe and the rubber boot where they contact to hopefully lube the contact surfaces and seal it??? I installed it as it was from the shop assuming the nice new rubber boot would make a nice seal without putting anything on it which may damage the rubber. (I did consider lubing up the pipe with Vaseline or something but decided it may have an adverse affect on the rubber and better left as it was.) I don't want to remove toilet or cut the PVC pipe and end up with a sleeve on it as this was all replaced to get the neatest finish I could with a skew toilet when bathroom was renovated. 
Any suggestions? 
Thanks

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## ringtail

I suppose you could try some rubber grease. Can you move the pvc pipe to make it more square to the pan ? Probably not super critical but would definitely make a better seal.

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## phild01

Could let it dry and fill the void with polyurethane, wipe smooth with kero for a neat finish.

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## plum

As a professional, the only way to fix it is to replace the outlet rubber. If that is to remove the pan, so be it. And that may be, is to remove the pan. 
Advice from these other guys is great, but it's like someone asking how to attach a joist to a bearer, and me giving you advice like, ' just hit plenty of nails into it. Should work.' 
Cheers.

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## phild01

I doubt OP wanted to know about pan removal and risk of breakage, so didn't suggest that.  If siliconed down then that is less risky.

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## plum

It's only 5 years old. Should be a soda to remove.

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## renov8or

Shes planted well and firm on a sand/cement mix (and as per this forum). There is no way I would remove and destroy pan other than as a last choice after sealing the gap between collar and outlet or cutting PVC pipe and putting an ugly sleeve on it. The toilet cost me over $500 being a limited choice for a modern skew - and well below RRP. 
 I would like to know how to get a better seal of the rubber boot to pan outlet - other than completely sealing collar to pan outlet with silicon etc which I will do only if needed. Is is normal for boot to start leaking in only 5 years. Should the lip have been coated with some lube like Vaseline? Gradient of PVC outlet pipe can't be changed - it is at it's smallest, and squarer on than the old pipe and dunny was.

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## ringtail

> As a professional, the only way to fix it is to replace the outlet rubber. If that is to remove the pan, so be it. And that may be, is to remove the pan. 
> Advice from these other guys is great, but it's like someone asking how to attach a joist to a bearer, and me giving you advice like, ' just hit plenty of nails into it. Should work.' 
> Cheers.

  bwahahaha, love it Plum. If it were me I wouldn't hesistate to remove the pan, pipe or both. Whatever it takes. Like building, it aint rocket science. I would, however, re assemble with plenty of nails and maybe joist hanger or two.

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## plum

> Shes planted well and firm on a sand/cement mix (and as per this forum). There is no way I would remove and destroy pan other than as a last choice after sealing the gap between collar and outlet or cutting PVC pipe and putting an ugly sleeve on it. The toilet cost me over $500 being a limited choice for a modern skew - and well below RRP. 
>  I would like to know how to get a better seal of the rubber boot to pan outlet - other than completely sealing collar to pan outlet with silicon etc which I will do only if needed. Is is normal for boot to start leaking in only 5 years. Should the lip have been coated with some lube like Vaseline? Gradient of PVC outlet pipe can't be changed - it is at it's smallest, and squarer on than the old pipe and dunny was.

  Does the waste pipe go through an external wall?
If it does it may be possible to cut the waste pipe externally, then pull out to give access to the collar.
I'll often put a bit of plumbers bog on the rubber, but that's only for the pan to slide in easier

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## renov8or

It is in a unit, with the pipe entering the stack in the corner of the room concealed behind the bath ....so no. And not ripping up reno. 
So is there a way to give rubber boot contact surface a better seal by poking something down around it like Vaseline? (Grease/Vaseline  works good on tap parts to stop leaks around moving parts.) It is either this or sealing the ring like phild01 said but I would probably pack the gap first so that only the minimum amount of silicon or polyurethane (Sika) was used to seal between collar and pan outlet at the end of the collar rather than right down inside as well. 
So what you are saying is that nothing is normally used on boot for better seal when assembling (mine slid in easily as was all new). Isn't 5 years a bit short a life span?

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## phild01

Amazes me how a flimsy seal has been the trusted connection for p traps...not helping, I know!

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## cyclic

> It is in a unit, with the pipe entering the stack in the corner of the room concealed behind the bath ....so no. And not ripping up reno. 
> So is there a way to give rubber boot contact surface a better seal by poking something down around it like Vaseline? (Grease/Vaseline  works good on tap parts to stop leaks around moving parts.) It is either this or sealing the ring like phild01 said but I would probably pack the gap first so that only the minimum amount of silicon or polyurethane (Sika) was used to seal between collar and pan outlet at the end of the collar rather than right down inside as well. 
> So what you are saying is that nothing is normally used on boot for better seal when assembling (mine slid in easily as was all new). Isn't 5 years a bit short a life span?

  From what I read you installed it yourself and at 5 years you will probably find the rubber is split or perished or it could have sand in there seperating the rubber from the pan, so a quick clean may do the job but it will probably start leaking again in a few months.
Could even be a case of poor moulding of the pan outlet. 
Fit a new rubber by cutting a section from the pipe and using a joiner, or remove the clamp and rubber and fill with Sika 221. 
Funny enough in days gone by when we used bitumen to seal them we never had leaks.

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## renov8or

The one thing I did when installing was to ensure that all surfaces were clean - almost as much as when assembling hydraulic components. I will trying getting  a piece of lubricated rag or something down there to clean between the sealing surfaces in case over time a little dirt/debris has been back washed into the seal by turbulence around the exit end of the collar just beyond the boot where it reduces. If only I had room to poke a long tapered sealant cartridge tip down to the end of the boot and pump a good bead of Vaseline just inside the end and under the lip.

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## phild01

> If only I had room to poke a long tapered sealant cartridge tip down to the end of the boot and pump a good bead of Vaseline just inside the end and under the lip.

   Could apply polyurethane with gloved finger, wipe clean with a bit of kero and rag (as I prev suggested).

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## renov8or

I've decided I will have to seal the outer end of the collar around the pan outlet. What is the reason Cyclic you suggest removing the outer collar and rubber boot rather than just seal with it in place - which would take a lot less sealant. As it is not centered 100% there is a lesser gap one side and a greater on the other which I thought I would poke a bit of breaker rod?? (the soft yellow poly spaghetti??) in first to limit the depth I have to fill. As there is no movement at the connection of the pan and collar is expensive Sikka 221, or even Flex-Pro essential - the rest of the tube will go to wast. Would normal silicon be adequate - sealing PVC to ceramic? I'm thinking if I ever had to remove it the silicon might be easier to cut through than polyurethane.

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## FrodoOne

> I've decided I will have to seal the outer end of the collar around the pan outlet. What is the reason Cyclic you suggest removing the outer collar and rubber boot rather than just seal with it in place - which would take a lot less sealant. As it is not centered 100% there is a lesser gap one side and a greater on the other which I thought I would poke a bit of breaker rod?? (the soft yellow poly spaghetti??) in first to limit the depth I have to fill. As there is no movement at the connection of the pan and collar is expensive Sikka 221, or even Flex-Pro essential - the rest of the tube will go to wast. Would normal silicon be adequate - sealing PVC to ceramic? I'm thinking if I ever had to remove it the silicon might be easier to cut through than polyurethane.

  I have just come across this thread so I went to check on the collar replaced on a toilet pan about 4 rears ago, which was then dripping after having been in position for about 30 years. 
As I now recall, the new one also had a small drip, initially!  This was (eventually) "fixed" by warping several layers of "electrical" tape around the pan outlet prior to installing the collar etc.  (Still there, still OK!) 
As I could remove and replace the Pan, installation of the tape was relatively easy.

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## renov8or

Any advice on silicon verses polyurethane, and if the Sikka 221 is overkill?

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## phild01

If it were mine I would choose Fulaprene 303.  IMO it's a great product that adheres to plastic better than silicone.

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## Dwinny

I had this issue with my toilet and was leaking terribly, I ended up using SOS self fusing silicone tape and wrapped the whole thing up as a quick fix as I'm planning on redoing the whole toilet in the next year. 
It's been about 6 months and hasn't had a leak.   Tommy Tape 25mm 3m White Specialty Tape I/N 1560099 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## renov8or

I had a look at the Fuller 303, only suggested for 2mm thick for sealing between 2 items like a gasket, and is touch dry in 3 minutes which does not give me enough time to do a neat job in a confined space. Need something which can seal up to about 10mm gap - being the widest gap around the collar on one side. I have used SikkaFlex before, cant remember how much time I had to play with it.

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## phild01

> I had a look at the Fuller 303, only suggested for 2mm thick for sealing between 2 items like a gasket, and is touch dry in 3 minutes which does not give me enough time to do a neat job in a confined space. Need something which can seal up to about 10mm gap - being the widest gap around the collar on one side. I have used SikkaFlex before, cant remember how much time I had to play with it.

  The 2mm  took me unaware.  The sika 11fc mentions non-sag to 30mm width.

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## renov8or

Sikka F11c is more of an adhesive than sealant, it was recommenced by Sikka to use as an adhesive for fitting a caesarstone top to cabinet rather than Sikkaflex pro which I had on hand. F11c has a skinning time of 45-75 min, Pro is 2-4 hours, both with curing time of days. I would like to be able to use toilet after a few hours, as in contact with water will not be a problem, but not a deal breaker. Silicon can usually be used earlier????? When it comes to removing a sealant from a surface I would rather try removing silicon than polyurethane, Sikkaflex Pro is a hard bastard to scrape off!    
FYI, when looking in the local major hardware store (Hardware and General - Sydney) I discovered that they sold Sikkaflex Pro for $10.., Bunnings $16.. I was surprised with such a difference which has got me thinking about future purchases of anything. Bunnings has massive buying power, H&G is big as an independent and most of its sales would be to trade versus handyman/trade and potentially sell a lot more Sikka than all Bunnings in Sydney combined, but worth comparing prices in future. Of course Bunnings has everything under the one roof so a bit more convenient. 
Anyway I will wait for a few more views on silicon or polyurethane sealants before attacking the leak.

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## phild01

> FYI, when looking in the local major hardware store (Hardware and General - Sydney) I discovered that they sold Sikkaflex Pro for $10.., Bunnings $16.. I was surprised with such a difference which has got me thinking about future purchases of anything. Bunnings has massive buying power, H&G is big as an independent and most of its sales would be to trade versus handyman/trade and potentially sell a lot more Sikka than all Bunnings in Sydney combined, but worth comparing prices in future.

  ...and free delivery.

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