# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Really large table bracing

## havabeer

Hi after some advice about building a large 16 seat table 
the dimensions of the apron are:
3.5m x 1.1m  
making it entirely (apron and top) out of a hardwood called Palawan wood side is:
140mm x 25mm 
It seems sturdy just as apron/frame so I'm worried about it sagging over time. So going to put 3 boards of the same material along the short axis as I'll need something to screw the top boards to 
will that be enough to stop it sagging or can I screw something on the long  sides like a piece of 3 or 4mm steel plate to try and stiffens it

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## SilentButDeadly

Structurally, the idea of putting a few intermediate supports across the table (between the longitudinal supports) using the same material is a good idea.  Don't use steel if you can help it!! 
Also, don't make the mistake of attaching the top directly to the support.  Make an indirect attachment using either a speciality bracket or a screw with a large washer (the washer slots into a groove on the inside of the apron.  If you fix directly then you risk the top warping the frame... 
And make sure you have a few friends on hand to move the table!!!

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## joynz

Also, please post some pictures as you go.   
I've saved quite a bit of wood that I'd like to make a table out of and would be good to see how you do it.

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## Marc

How are you going to make the top?

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## Moondog55

Speaking purely from a functional catering point of view 2 tables half the length is more practical; although 3500 isn't what I would call a really big table

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## havabeer

> How are you going to make the top?

  i was just planning on screwing the boards from underneath to the apron and supports using pocket holes, and some liquid nails. 
the wood is basically just decking that i was going to use long ways as a table top

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## toooldforthis

just four corner legs?
my gut feel is it will sag.

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## havabeer

i probably should have started this thread with the words 
"i'm a novice at wood working" but if you don't try you don't learn.   

> just four corner legs?
> my gut feel is it will sag.

  yeah thats my feeling as well. 
pics probably tell 1000 words  
so this is my basic frame, screwed and glued into the legs.     
played around this arvo and added the 3 supports to see how it feels and it definitely seems solid,  
this is basically how i'd like it to turn out. as mentioned i plan on joining it using pocket holes from underneath (yellow) so there are no screws on top at all. I'm just slightly concearned it'll sag under its on weight, which is why i thought i could perhaps screw and glue some steel plates (blue) on the inside of the apron between the supports to try and mitigate how much it sags the only issue with that is i only have 25mm of wood thickness to play with so the screws would have to be pretty stubby

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## Moondog55

I'd add an extra pair of legs in the middle and/or do a bridge brace down the centre
I would also diagonally brace all the internal  corners
A fine looking table tho

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## havabeer

> I'd add an extra pair of legs in the middle and/or do a bridge brace down the centre
> I would also diagonally brace all the internal  corners
> A fine looking table tho

  Yeah father in law suggested even just putting a single post in the middle attached to the middle horizontal support, wouldn't interfere with anything there 
is it really worth bracing the internal corners? Won't the top help brace it all together

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## Moondog55

Yes bracing the corners really does help with long term reliability, just a bit of timber with the ends cut at 45 and glued and screwed either side of the legs or a decent sized that fits behind the legs or both
Tables can get bashed about and I have lost a few shop bought cheapies due to lack of bracing

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## r3nov8or

Triangles are strongest, and you don't have any yet. Internal bracing of the corners is needed. Find any decent solid table and look underneath, I'm sure it will be braced.

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## r3nov8or

Also, I used Palawan for our deck about 13 years ago but last time I looked for more recently there was none down here. Is it plentiful in NSW?

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## Random Username

You'd be much better off gluing the tabletop together on the edges, then attaching it to the rail with something that allows sideways movement.   Trying to restrain it all is asking for a tabletop that ends up looking like a relief model of the sea - all wavy.  https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/...-wood-movement

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## havabeer

> Also, I used Palawan for our deck about 13 years ago but last time I looked for more recently there was none down here. Is it plentiful in NSW?

  Dunno if it's plentiful, first time I've seen it, the smaller hardware shop I got it from said bunnings and masters are just buying up tons of merbau so smaller places are struggling to place orders, so they just bought the palawan

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## havabeer

> https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/...-wood-movement

  Nice article, thanks.  
I could also also consider a 1 or 2 mm gap between each board so it looks a bit more like decking but still allowing expansion in the wood

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## PlatypusGardens

Nice table top but the frame loooks very skimpy to me.....   :Unsure:   
Definitely triangles in all the corners and probably legs in the middle as well..    :Smilie:

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## havabeer

> Nice table top but the frame loooks very skimpy to me.....  
> Definitely triangles in all the corners and probably legs in the middle as well..

  yeah i'll brace up the corners  
but I'd like to try and avoid a set of legs in the middle if I can as I'm making bench style seats and it'd be awkward trying to sit around it. which is why I don't mind the one in the middle.

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## phild01

If you won't do middle legs, maybe run a 140 or 190 down the middle for it's length. You could check it in with the cross members.

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## SilentButDeadly

> ...but I'd like to try and avoid a set of legs in the middle if I can as I'm making bench style seats and it'd be awkward trying to sit around it. which is why I don't mind the one in the middle.

  You could try Phil's approach or you could put a cross brace across the legs at each end (about a third of the way down) and then run a diagonal along half the length of the table to the middle top cross brace.  If the table is wide enough then no-ones knee's should touch it... 
A third option if you have enough material is to connect the legs at each end using your 140x25 as a plinth then connect the two plinths along the length of the table.  The plinths sit on the ground (you can also use boat trailer plastic as a standoff...works a treat).  Run a support for the centre of the table straight down to the plinth.  Again if your table is wide enough then the central support won't strike knees and the plinth itself won't be tall enough to fumble too much with the feet...but it isn't the most minimalist aesthetic option either.

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## PlatypusGardens

> yeah i'll brace up the corners  
> but I'd like to try and avoid a set of legs in the middle if I can as I'm making bench style seats and it'd be awkward trying to sit around it. which is why I don't mind the one in the middle.

  
Ok, how about two single legs.
One each on the outer two of the three cross supports, but in the center of the table.   :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

Like so

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## phild01

You crack me up PG, like your screen :Roflmao: . 
With that idea, you could then brace between the two legs and have a legrest for people.
Seriously though the idea works if you are not moving the table around a lot and trying to balance up 6 legs.

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## PlatypusGardens

> You crack me up PG, like your screen.

  Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.   :Smilie:     

> the idea works if you are not moving the table around a lot and trying to balance up 6 legs.

  
Just make the two middle legs a tad shorter and pack them accordingly.
It's not rocket salad.....   :Wink:

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## phild01

> Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.       
> Just make the two middle legs a tad shorter and pack them accordingly.
> It's not rocket salad.....

  Yeah but I wan it ova there, nah here, just move it bit more so Fred can get in. I'd get sick of packin and unpackin the heavy thing :Biggrin:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Yeah but I wan it ova there, nah here, just move it bit more so Fred can get in. I'd get sick of packin and unpackin it

  who's Fred?

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## phild01

The big guy :Smilie:

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## CraigandKate

> 

  Why use metal? Could you laminate another 140x25 against that so you would have four 25x140 supports longways instead of two? Even another pair in the middle! More weight but may save the need for any centre legs.

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## toooldforthis

> Like so

  is that to scale?

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## Marc

No much point commenting after the fact, but a table that size needs much larger legs and skirt, so now it is a matter of remediate to make it work.  
I would prefer to go with Silent's approach with the cross members at each end and diagonals the way park benches are built. Yet even then, it is possible that two extra legs in the centre may be needed.  
As far as the top is concerned, as others have pointed out, a table top must be a solid unit glued to each other and independent from the frame. 
So it will need it's own cross members from the same material across and flat, to keep the top from bowing and waving. 
To connect the top to the skirt, you can buy hardware made for this purpose or make up some with angles and screws. Definitely don't screw the boards to the frame like you would do with flooring to joist, unless you want to leave gaps between the boards. If you leave gaps between the boards like outdoor furniture than fixing individual boards may work OK.

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## PlatypusGardens

> is that to scale?

  
I don't know WHAT that is....  :Unsure: 
Did I draw that?   
A volleball court?

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## METRIX

I make these tables all the time, the skirt needs to be thicker, 25mm will sag at that length, you could double up the skirts. glue and screw them together to gain strength.
The posts should be rebated out to create a shoulder for the skirt to sit on, miter the skirts and fix from the insides so you don't see those bugles, see below one I made earlier. 
You definitely need angle braces in the corners, or the legs will come loose over time, and the frame will have a tendency to wobble.

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## PlatypusGardens

That's not your shed. Not a single Blue Bosch in sight ^

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## METRIX

> That's not your shed. Not a single Blue Bosch in sight ^

  Ahh,  your not paying enough attention to the picture, look to the left, there is a Bosch SCMS, and connected to this is a Bosch Vac, you can see the hose for it  :Tongue:

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## Marc

I see something yellow to the right, does bosh make yellow stuff?

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## METRIX

> I see something yellow to the right, does bosh make yellow stuff?

  Actually, yes they do make some yellow stuff, not sure if we get it here.

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## PlatypusGardens

I saw the saw.

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## Marc

Ha ha, so true! I have one of those however the yellow paint has faded long ago. It's called a "Brute breaker" Does a decent job. Kennards used to have them but now swapped to Makita.
Bought for $50 on e-bay, not working. Fixed to get a job done and now sits in the shed enjoying retirement.

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## METRIX

If memory serves me right, this was the day when my Bosch tools had been used for about 3 hours total time, I called up Bosch and said I want a new set as these have done more than I am happy with. 
That's why there are no tools there, as the truck was out the front delivering an entire new set of tools, they had just removed all the old ones just before this photo was taken :Wink:   :Rolleyes:

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## PlatypusGardens

That makes sense

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## r3nov8or

> Like so

  When did SketchUp get a Chalk widget?

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## PlatypusGardens

Sharp shalk is essential     
Steady hand is optional       :Wink:

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## havabeer

thanks for all the input guys. gives me a bit of an idea of where to head with this table.    

> I make these tables all the time, the skirt needs to be thicker, 25mm will sag at that length, you could double up the skirts. glue and screw them together to gain strength.
> The posts should be rebated out to create a shoulder for the skirt to sit on, miter the skirts and fix from the insides so you don't see those bugles, see below one I made earlier. 
> You definitely need angle braces in the corners, or the legs will come loose over time, and the frame will have a tendency to wobble.

  
yeah realise now i should have notched/shouldered the legs, but its all part of the learning curve.     

> PlatypusGardens Like so

  may try a mix of this and then running a bridge brace between them to the center support. have to get it past the wife and her visual appeal though. with 3 bench seats either side and 1 each end i don't think you'll see much of it. 
and yeah as mentioned it wont be moved very often

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## PlatypusGardens

> yeah realise now i should have notched/shouldered the legs, but its all part of the learning curve.

  Sure is. 
I constantly build, modify and muck around with all sorts of stuff and quite often get halfway through and think "Arrr...I should have done it THAT way....."    :Wink:

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## METRIX

> thanks for all the input guys. gives me a bit of an idea of where to head with this table. 
>  yeah realise now i should have notched/shouldered the legs, but its all part of the learning curve.   
> may try a mix of this and then running a bridge brace between them to the center support. have to get it past the wife and her visual appeal though. with 3 bench seats either side and 1 each end i don't think you'll see much of it. 
> and yeah as mentioned it wont be moved very often

  It's easy fixed, take the legs off, notch the legs, in about 45mm, this will give you a 5mm overhang for the skirt over the legs, put the first skirt back on, fix from outside into the legs, fit a second mitered skirt, and fix from the inside, with glue and screws, fixing it through the inside skirt you don't see any fixings, and both skirts are sitting on the notched legs, then corner braces through both skirts from inside, and through the leg, 
This will strengthen it up, and give you a fixing free skirt., easy as. 
See how to make and fix the corner braces from one I prepared earlier,  :Biggrin:    
Here is another one of similar design, before and after.      
Here's one just for you PP, just to get the Blue in shot, this was when the work ute broke one day, so had to transfer some tools to the play ute so I could still work.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Here's one just for you PP, just to get the Blue in shot, this was when the work ute broke one day, so had to transfer some tools to the play ute so I could still work.

  
My life is now complete        :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

Havabeer, most threads on this forum tend to derail slightly once a few of the usual suspects get involved.  
You'll figure out what's what soon enough.
Feel free to join in and chew the fat and take the piss.
We all do. 
All good fun.   :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Hey
I resemble that remark

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## PlatypusGardens

There's one ^    :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

I am actually really interested in this thread as a big [ *REALLY BIG*] table is going to be needed soon for Christamas dinner under the carport

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## Marc

Yes, we usually post a plethora of nugatory pulchritudes.

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## Marc

All the powertools listed must be Bosh green ... oops, BLUE.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT89XCa9Vk

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## METRIX

> I am actually really interested in this thread as a big [ *REALLY BIG*] table is going to be needed soon for Christamas dinner under the carport

  Depends on what you mean by Really BIG, Really big tables are impractical, you are best off building two reasonable tables, push them together for those large occasions, when not in use separate them for more practicality.
A lot of the ones I build have wheels on them, so they can be moved easily, as they simply get too heavy. 
If you want really big, consider a steel frame with timber cladding.

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## PlatypusGardens

So, Metrix, do you build your tables on a table that you built? 
How did you build that table?   :Unsure:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Yes, we usually post a plethora of nugatory pulchritudes.

  Copious amounts of male bovine excrement?

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## METRIX

> So, Metrix, do you build your tables on a table that you built? 
> How did you build that table?

  Yes, they are built on a worktable previously built, it has a top 2100 x 1000 x 35mm, nice and flat so keeps everything in alignment, you will see it in the back of shot where the white frame is.

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## PlatypusGardens

I need to realign my workbench so it's flat straight square and level...

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## phild01

> Yes, they are built on a worktable previously built, it has a top 2100 x 1000 x 35mm, nice and flat so keeps everything in alignment, you will see it in the back of shot where the white frame is.

  ...and is that a laminated pine top from bunnings?

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## METRIX

> ...and is that a laminated pine top from bunnings?

  Yep, you need to fix them down well, to keep them from warping, I tried two layers of ply and it wasn't as solid as these.

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## Moondog55

Metrix I actually agree with you on really big tables being impractical; I said so in my first response actually 
Coming from a catering background I tend to think in terms of trestles. We have a couple of large doors here 2100 * 1000 that came from the old wardrobe; we were going to simply top them with another sheet of plywood and use the painting tables for support as they adjust to the right height for a buffet table and sim[ply put a leg in each corner of the other one to sit at
A cabinet maker mate of the family built these and they are stupidly strong for wardrobe doors but not quite strong enough for a permanent table [ much stronger tho than the chipboard stuff we use for mass catering events] so thinking of adding a 10mm sheet of ply to the top

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## havabeer

so i've put some angle bracing in the 4 corners and will put some against the middle horizontal support. 
also trimmed the legs down to the right height. 
now to try and bend some schlong lengths of hardwood so they look resonably straight as a bench top. going to put 1.5mm gaps in between each one. will see how it all looks afterwards put still think i;ll end up with a post up the guts

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## Gaza

You may need to strighten timber before you screw down, using router and long fence   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## METRIX

> so i've put some angle bracing in the 4 corners and will put some against the middle horizontal support. 
> also trimmed the legs down to the right height. 
> now to try and bend some schlong lengths of hardwood so they look resonably straight as a bench top. going to put 1.5mm gaps in between each one. will see how it all looks afterwards put still think i;ll end up with a post up the guts

  Put 3mm min gaps, 1.5 is to small and won't allow for expansion

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## havabeer

> Put 3mm min gaps, 1.5 is to small and won't allow for expansion

  yeah I was thinking this, it'll also help to hide the bows in the timber

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## PlatypusGardens

> it'll also help to hide the bows in the timber

  
Nope

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## METRIX

> Nope

   :2thumbsup:

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## PlatypusGardens

Well it won't......     :Unsure:

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## David.Elliott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRlqmTKyQx0

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## havabeer

lol guess this is where my in experience shows. 
my brilliant plan was to get the straightest bit of timber I have screw that to table. 
then place some of those plastic packing (2-3mm worth) along the length of the timber 
then use a couple of large clamps to pull the next piece of in line with it 
screw and glue in place 
rinse, repeat across the length

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## PlatypusGardens

> lol guess this is where my in experience shows. 
> my brilliant plan was to get the straightest bit of timber I have screw that to table. 
> then place some of those plastic packing (2-3mm worth) along the length of the timber 
> then use a couple of large clamps to pull the next piece of in line with it 
> screw and glue in place 
> rinse, repeat across the length

  
Find the straightest piece 
Set it up, secure it at one end 
Set up a stringline to see how straight it isn't 
Straighten it as you go (crossbars every 450mm will be best) 
Work off that one when straightening the next one.  
Push the bent board in like so:   
Start securing it at the bottom end and work your way up 
Put lots of spacers in as you go. 
Clamps are your friends.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

Ah, new crack free drawing board :Biggrin:  Nah, think I recognise the hole.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Ah, new crack free drawing board Nah, think I recognise the hole.

  
It's my iPad/beer/coffee/lunch table. 
Conveniently placed halfway between the shed and the beer fridge  :Wink:

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## havabeer

Cheers for the drawing, that's basically what I had in mind of doing 
got to get another sash clamp from the big green hardware store tomorrow. Need to grab some natural oil for the big girl as well

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## METRIX

> Cheers for the drawing, that's basically what I had in mind of doing 
> got to get another sash clamp from the big green hardware store tomorrow. Need to grab some natural oil for the big girl as well

  No need for sash clamp, put down the first board, fix it at the ends, straighten it up using either a long level or string line placed 10mm away, straighten and fix the center, once happy, fix the rest of the screws.
Fix the next board using packers at the ends, fix the ends, and straighten any bows using a chisel, fix the center, then the remaining screws. 
I prefer to fix from underneath so you don;t see the screws, or if your top fixing, use TRIM head screws for a neat look, also don;t forget to use a smartbit to pre-drill / countersink where your screws are going if your top fixing. 
Most important make sure the screw lines are straight.

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## Marc

> most important make sure the screw lines are straight

   :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> Most important make sure the screw lines are straight.

  Just use twist shank domes  :Tongue:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Just use twist shank domes

  Ssssshhh! 
You'll wake Jimj!!!    :Shock:

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## PlatypusGardens

> oil for the big girl

  I hope we're still talking about the table.......      :Unsure:

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## METRIX

> Just use twist shank domes

  Just bought a new house, it has 2 Merbau decks, in fairly good condition, I will sand them sometime to bring the full colour back, they are nailed down, but with flat head nails, or someone may have sanded the domes off them ??

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## phild01

> Just bought a new house, it has 2 Merbau decks, in fairly good condition, I will sand them sometime to bring the full colour back, they are nailed down, but with flat head nails, or someone may have sanded the domes off them ??

  I have seen a deck with what looked like weathertex nails, might be what you have.

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## havabeer

> I prefer to fix from underneath so you don;t see the screws, or if your top fixing, use TRIM head screws for a neat look, also don;t forget to use a smartbit to pre-drill / countersink where your screws are going if your top fixing. 
> Most important make sure the screw lines are straight.

  no need, 
going in from underneath 
its all going pretty well, slowly but surely getting there. pics make it looked really bowed and twisted, pretty sure its just fish eye iphone trickery as i just checked it and its fine. hopefully will get it finished tomorrow and oil'd up up as well. then its just a case of moving it to where it'll stay (aka getting rid of the old table) putting the center support post on and build some bench seats.      
some of the more astute of you may notice some of the bracing missing, i just can't install it till i put the pocket holes behind it.

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## Bloss

OOPS - you've done some work today and posted while I was writing the following! So ignore most of it! That will sag though - the triangulation you have done will stop any racking, but with those large screws and glue onto the posts I don't think that was a big issue. You will need to do something to stop sag though - even two lengths of angle iron inboard from the rails and from one end to the other screwed under the cross rails might work and not be visible or hit legs. The trouble with sagging is once it starts (and it will do so slowly over time) it is hard to straighten, so better to not have it start at all. 
The legs size are fine so does not need larger ones. The side rails for that span will sag though. Adding extra legs in the middle will mean you will pretty much never get it to sit level. You don't need triangulation reinforcement at the top as would normally be seen in the corner as the glue & screw into the 90x90 legs will be sufficient. 
So the problem is how to stop the sagging. The suggestion by 'craigandkate' is probably the easiest, but not going to work all that well as short noggins in between the cross-rails. Best to remove the cross rails, glue & screw in a new thickness on the inside (doubling the thickness of the side rails (and adding much weight to an already heavy table, but strength too!). 
I'd be building the top as separate removable unit - i.e.: with the top attached to the cross-rails and sitting inside the support frame with a couple of fixings to hold it in place during use. That way moving will be easier as it will be in two pieces. Rather than drilling and screwing from the top it'd look better to attached the top boards from underneath (unless you like the SS screws 'industrial/ decking' look) using table top fasteners e.g.: Table Top Fasteners Pack 50. 
These just need a groove cut along one side of the cross rails and are screwed to the bottom of each board - fiddly and you'd need to do two per board but the top would have no visible fixings. Easier still would be to glue and screw a piece of say 25mmx19mm flush with the top of the cross rails then drill and screw through that to the boards above.

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## METRIX

> Find the straightest piece 
> Push the bent board in like so:

  
Gee, if I had a board that looked like your diagram I would put it aside for the burner  :Sneaktongue:

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## justonething

Your table is looking more and more like a deck! May be you should build it according to the Span table :Smilie:

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## phild01

> May be you should build it according to the Span table

  A thought in the back of my mind as well :Smilie:

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## havabeer

But I've already stuffed the 600 centers

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## METRIX

Unfortunately your table has a fundamental design fault, it will sag over time due to the thin side rails and the spans being too long, remember this is wood your dealing with not steel. 
Better to fix it now, than try to straighten it later, or find out you cant straighten it and waste all the timber and time you have put into it.
As said in my earlier post it's easier to fix it in the following way and it should be ok. 
You need thicker side rails, this can be achieved by either replacing the existing ones with thicker ones, or double up the existing ones. 
I would also notch the legs to sit UNDER the doubled up side rails not rely on a few bugles to hold everything up (even thought these are strong, it's not the preferable way to build a table like this, see my pics posted earlier.  *To fix it* 
1: Take the legs off, notch two sides of the legs, in about 45mm to 5mm less than the depth of the side rails, this  will give you a 5mm overhang for the side rails to hang over the legs, and a 5mm clearance at the top. 
2: Fix the existing side rail back into the legs from the outside using existing bugles and holes 
3: Laminate a second "mitered"  side rail around the existing side rail, fix it to the existing side rail from the inside, with glue and plenty of screws.
"using mitered cuts will also hide any end grains, and those horrible bugles". 
4: Shorten and refit the corner braces. 
Also for a table this long and heavy, I would take Bloss's advice, and make the top separate to the frame, this can then be placed on in one piece, and fixed from below, it makes moving it easier, and any maintenance you need to do in the future, such as sanding it, much easier. 
BTW: What is the actual length of this table ?

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## phild01

Maybe buy one of those LVLs everest has for sale and run it down the centre :Smilie:

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## havabeer

Actual length is 3.3m (inside leg to inside leg) with the top being about 3.5

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## PlatypusGardens

> Gee, if I had a board that looked like your diagram I would put it aside for the burner

  Greatly exaggerated for illustration purposes, of course.

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## METRIX

> Greatly exaggerated for illustration purposes, of course.

  Ive seen some pine that looked like that, was only good for making a circular wall.

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## METRIX

> Actual length is 3.3m (inside leg to inside leg) with the top being about 3.5

  Just did some calculations, and even a hardwood of 140x35 rated to 8 kg/m2 (which is bugger all) will be loaded to 74% capacity and have a 10mm deflection at that length. 
A HW 120x35  loaded to 118% with a 16mm deflection,  I would redesign it, as the rails are too small and wont last,

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## PlatypusGardens

> Ive seen some pine that looked like that, was only good for making a circular wall.

  Yep. Seen hardwood like that too.

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## phild01

> Just did some calculations, and even a hardwood of 140x35 rated to 8 kg/m2 (which is bugger all) will be loaded to 74% capacity and have a 10mm deflection at that length. 
> A HW 120x35  loaded to 118% with a 16mm deflection,  I would redesign it, as the rails are too small and wont last,

  As I say, get one of those LVL's down the centre :Wink:

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## ringtail

> Just bought a new house, it has 2 Merbau decks, in fairly good condition, I will sand them sometime to bring the full colour back, they are nailed down, but with flat head nails, or someone may have sanded the domes off them ??

  Ssshhhh, you'll wake Jim  :Tongue:

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## ringtail

100x50x3 steel angle down each side fixed at 450 cts would do it and would,at a pinch, be lighter than a second rail of timber. Paint it up nicely in black gloss and use some SS bolts.

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## havabeer

to save me the hassle of pulling apart this dam table, could i possibly just add something like this to the middle support? 
looking down from the short end, post knotched out and screwed to middle rail with 2x angled pieces coming off it, enough not to interfere with anyone sitting under it.

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## Random Username

So is the table going to be big enough for paella?

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## havabeer

so tables getting close to "finished" i suppose. stained/oiled it the other day 
as you can see by the pics i ended up putting a 90x90 post in the middle and i plan on putting a brace coming off it at 15 degress and attach it to the apron like my picture above to try and mitigate some sagging and wont bash anyone's knees sitting at that spot.

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## phild01

Looking good :2thumbsup: 
Are the legs pelawan?

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## r3nov8or

Very nice indeed. When is the red wine and beetroot Christening?

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## havabeer

> Looking good
> Are the legs pelawan?

  negative, just the laminated merbau posts

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## havabeer

> Very nice indeed. When is the red wine and beetroot Christening?

  is this some sex thing i'm not quite up to speed with? 
i've still got to build the chairs before any type christening

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## r3nov8or

> is this some sex thing i'm not quite up to speed with? 
> i've still got to build the chairs before any type christening

  Well, er, no, just your regular BBQ. But happy to see photos of the alternatives  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> so tables getting close to "finished" i suppose. stained/oiled it the other day 
> as you can see by the pics i ended up putting a 90x90 post in the middle and i plan on putting a brace coming off it at 15 degress and attach it to the apron like my picture above to try and mitigate some sagging and wont bash anyone's knees sitting at that spot.

  Beautiful timber, what did you coat it with ?

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## Moondog55

I still think the easiest and cheapest way to brace such a long table is with a diagonal or two from each end to the centre using either wood, angle iron[ galvanised of course] or cheapest and possible strongest a  steel cable and a small turnbuckle and 3 screw eyes

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## phild01

> I still think the easiest and cheapest way to brace such a long table is with a diagonal or two from each end to the centre using either wood, angle iron[ galvanised of course] or cheapest and possible strongest a  steel cable and a small turnbuckle and 3 screw eyes

  Maybe draw it, but diagonals to the centre from each end won't stop a sag without a tie at the base.

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## Moondog55

Works for crevasse bridges

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## phild01

> Works for crevasse bridges

   _Edit: Can see a diagram now, yep a truss type set-up will work.  Thought you meant diagonals the opposite way._

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## PlatypusGardens

Looks good. 
I would have "picture framed" the top though.    
Did you beef up the apron or skirt boards or whatever it's called?

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