# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  ezilay shower tray and drain question

## doodling

I have layed the ezilay system but having  doubts about the drain.  The space for the puddle flange leaves a gap between the cap and the lip of the shower tray of about 50mm around the cap.  What should I use to fill in this space? As this is a reno on concret and not too familiar with the doing a morter bed I used the ezilay preformed system sold at Highgroves.  It was easy to place after blunting my saw completly but did save time and fiddling around with getting falls in the morter based shower systems.  BUT still not sure of what to do with the drain.  I bought a wondercap retro puddle flange as the only one that was flat not funneled.  The height will be fine with the depth of the ezilay sytem and the tiles but there is this gap.  What to do
Please advise.
Has anone used this before?
cheers Doodling

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## goldie1

You fit the puddle flange then waterproof then the gap is filled with tile glue when you tile. 
I am fitting one at the moment. Should be able to post a pic in the next day or so after the cup weekend.

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## doodling

> You fit the puddle flange then waterproof then the gap is filled with tile glue when you tile. 
> I am fitting one at the moment. Should be able to post a pic in the next day or so after the cup weekend.

  I look forward to your pictures.  Always makes it easier to work things out with a view of it
doodling

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## goldie1

> I look forward to your pictures. Always makes it easier to work things out with a view of it
> doodling

  Hope these help

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## doodling

Could you she me the type of drain you are putting in as well   

> Hope these help

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## goldie1

Yes its a timber frame. Flooring is Hardies Scyon and walls are villaboard. In pic 2 at the bottom of the  
vertical prongs on the puddle flange you can see some small lugs. The grate is cut to the tile hight and sits 
on the lugs.  This leaves a small gap for any water between the tiles and the waterproofing to drain. 
I will get a pic when I am there today.

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## goldie1

The grate is cut to tile height before fitting

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## Oldsaltoz

Hack sawing a few slots in the ring under grate will also help drainage of trapped water. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## Scooterscum

Sorry to drag up an old thread.
I'm thinking of using this system in a new shower on a flat concrete slab surrounded on three sides with timber stud walls.
In the above example done by "goldie1" I was wondering how you are dealing with the exposed edges ie the ones not against a wall.
It doesn't look like you are using a hob. Will you just tile upto the tray and then on top of the tray?
With mine I'd like to try and do the entry part without a hob. Could I use a piece of ali angle against this edge of the tray?
Also would like to know if the tray is laid first and then the villa board on walls run down onto the top of the tray, or villa board first then the tray against it?
Sorry for all the questions and hope I'm making sense!
Thanks and regards
Simon

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## goldie1

> Sorry to drag up an old thread.
> I'm thinking of using this system in a new shower on a flat concrete slab surrounded on three sides with timber stud walls.
> In the above example done by "goldie1" I was wondering how you are dealing with the exposed edges ie the ones not against a wall.
> It doesn't look like you are using a hob. Will you just tile upto the tray and then on top of the tray?
> With mine I'd like to try and do the entry part without a hob. Could I use a piece of ali angle against this edge of the tray?
> Also would like to know if the tray is laid first and then the villa board on walls run down onto the top of the tray, or villa board first then the tray against it?
> Sorry for all the questions and hope I'm making sense!
> Thanks and regards
> Simon

  G'day Simon. On this job I was using a frame less glass screen so  the Skyon flooring and the shower  
tray are finished at the same height.  The water stop angle which you can see is  finished above the 
 same as the floor tile thickness so after tiling it is all flush for the glass screen to be sealed on top  
of the angle. The tray is fitted before the wall sheet. What type of screen are you using?

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## Jbarrett76

> Could you she me the type of drain you are putting in as well

  Can I ask about the water stops? 
I am going to use this for my shower at home and plan on tiling straight through (waterproofed of course) with a framless shower screen - did you put water stops in, if so at what point before or after the shower tray was fitted - cant see them in the instructions?

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## goldie1

> Can I ask about the water stops? 
> I am going to use this for my shower at home and plan on tiling straight through (waterproofed of course) with a framless shower screen - did you put water stops in, if so at what point before or after the shower tray was fitted - cant see them in the instructions?

  The water stop angle around the shower is there to separate the tiles inside the shower from the tiles 
on the outside of the shower. The shower tray and the Scyon flooring are installed so they finish 
flush with each other. With a frame less screen the water stop is then fitted so the top of the angle  
is flush with the top of the tiles.  You seal it to the floor and walls with Sika.  You then waterproof. 
The screen is fitted on top of the water stop.   With frame less screens I also fit a water bar 
under the screen door on top of the tiles. This is a small metal bar shaped like a speed bump. 
You also need a water stop across the bathroom door sealed with Sika  to the floor and door frame.

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## bennyddd

> The water stop angle around the shower is there to separate the tiles inside the shower from the tiles 
> on the outside of the shower. The shower tray and the Scyon flooring are installed so they finish 
> flush with each other. With a frame less screen the water stop is then fitted so the top of the angle  
> is flush with the top of the tiles.  You seal it to the floor and walls with Sika.  You then waterproof. 
> The screen is fitted on top of the water stop.   With frame less screens I also fit a water bar 
> under the screen door on top of the tiles. This is a small metal bar shaped like a speed bump. 
> You also need a water stop across the bathroom door sealed with Sika  to the floor and door frame.

   
G,day there just wondering if this tile tray is similar to the marble trends one  here Tile Tray | Marbletrend - Leading Designer Bathrooms 
If so just wondering what the gray stuff in your pics are you have layed before you waterproofed? 
Sorry for total vagueness - but very new to this and just trying to figure out how to waterproof one of these. 
Cheers

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## Oldsaltoz

> G,day there just wondering if this tile tray is similar to the marble trends one  here Tile Tray | Marbletrend - Leading Designer Bathrooms 
> If so just wondering what the gray stuff in your pics are you have laid before you waterproofed?  Yes the tray was placed prior to waterproofing, bit the waterproofing on the outside extends up the external angle so no problems.  You could install yours the same way, just add the angles after the tray is placed and the wall sheets have been secured, his will minimise any movement. Note: you might have to trim a littler off the foot plate to get sheets to fit neatly to the shower base, leave a small 5 mm gap between the bottom of the sheet and the base of the new shower tray. 
> Sorry for total vagueness - but very new to this and just trying to figure out how to waterproof one of these. 
> Cheers

  Good luck and fair winds.

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## goldie1

> G,day there just wondering if this tile tray is similar to the marble trends one  here Tile Tray | Marbletrend - Leading Designer Bathrooms 
> If so just wondering what the gray stuff in your pics are you have layed before you waterproofed? 
> Sorry for total vagueness - but very new to this and just trying to figure out how to waterproof one of these. 
> Cheers

  The marbletrend one is structural i.e. it can be fitted directly on the joists. You would fit the tray first  
then fit the flooring up to it sealing the junction with Sika 11FC  The ezilay one is non structural 
i.e. it has to be supported by flooring. The marbletrend one has  an inbuilt puddle flange the ezilay one  
you have to fit the puddle flange. 
The "grey stuff " I assume you mean the flooring and wall sheet. The floor is Hardies Skyon  and 
the walls are villaboard.

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## phild01

> The marbletrend one is structural i.e. it can be fitted directly on the joists. You would fit the tray first  
> then fit the flooring up to it sealing the junction with Sika 11FC

  Yes, though waterproofing around it seems a bit sus!

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## bennyddd

Hey guys thanks for the info. The gray stuff I was asking about was in the photos above, actually laid inside the shower tray before the green membrane was in there... Was thinking that may have been another form of waterproofing?  
So If I seal everything up - wall to tray, wall to wall and nail holes with Sika the waterproofing should go on ok over the top of the Sika?  
Thanks again

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## goldie1

> Hey guys thanks for the info. The gray stuff I was asking about was in the photos above, actually laid inside the shower tray before the green membrane was in there... Was thinking that may have been another form of waterproofing?  
> So If I seal everything up - wall to tray, wall to wall and nail holes with Sika the waterproofing should go on ok over the top of the Sika?  
> Thanks again

  The grey stuff is the showertray 
 Yes the water proofing is fine over Sika but if you use Sika at the wall to floor and wall corner  
joints you have to use the reinforcing bandage with the built in bond breaker   http://www.crommelin.com.au/range/at...-bond-breaker/

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## bennyddd

Righto. Again thanks heaps for the info. So I take it the reinforcing bandage is fine to go over the Sika as well?

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## phild01

> Righto. Again thanks heaps for the info. So I take it the reinforcing bandage is fine to go over the Sika as well?

  When using with polyurethane type sealants like Sika..xxx, you need to use a bond breaker with the bandage.

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## goldie1

> Righto. Again thanks heaps for the info. So I take it the reinforcing bandage is fine to go over the Sika as well?

  Yes.  Use that link I gave  you and you will see a video at the bottom of the page on how to waterproof  
a shower

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## bennyddd

Hey guys I have bought everything for the job. Basically just prepping still, filling over nail head etc.  
Question 1. I used villaboard with this job, just wondering at the villaboard+villaboard joints (besides corners where is will use sika) looking at using paper tape and base coat followed by wet area joint compound... just wondering if this would be ok? Or could I get away with fibreglass tape? If not why? 
Question 2.  I have villaboard on all walls, it is going to be tiled wall to ceiling (not by me thankgod) ... anyhow should I even bother joining these other areas as will be covered by tiles anyhow and shower is enclosed with a screen anyway?

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## goldie1

> Hey guys I have bought everything for the job. Basically just prepping still, filling over nail head etc.  
> Question 1. I used villaboard with this job, just wondering at the villaboard+villaboard joints (besides corners where is will use sika) looking at using paper tape and base coat followed by wet area joint compound... just wondering if this would be ok? Or could I get away with fibreglass tape? If not why? 
> Question 2.  I have villaboard on all walls, it is going to be tiled wall to ceiling (not by me thankgod) ... anyhow should I even bother joining these other areas as will be covered by tiles anyhow and shower is enclosed with a screen anyway?

   Under all tiled  areas the villaboard manufacturers recommend joins be taped and base coat.
I use paper tape as its stronger then mesh tape.

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## phild01

Instead of waterproof compound (eek) just use standard stuff and for good measure 1 coat of waterproofing over the wall areas susceptible to being wet.

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## bennyddd

Righto thanks again. Will try post some photos when it's done. Cheers

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## bennyddd

First coat waterproofing. Used gripset primer, membrane and crommelin bond breakers. Used gripset membrane sleeve's around taps. Anyone else think villaboard really soaks up the membrane?

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## goldie1

You will use a lot less on the second coat. You have to do the full floor area not just the shower area. 
 Walls in wet area only but all the floor and all the wall / floor junction plus the inside of the 
angle across the door.

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## bennyddd

I've been told I need to do 150 up all the walls as well?

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## goldie1

> I've been told I need to do 150 up all the walls as well?

  I think from memory the standard is 75mm but this is a minimum requirement so if you want to go  
higher no probs. You jobs looking good those sleeves for the plumbing are a great 
product. What sort of screen are you using?

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## bennyddd

Cheers! 
its basically a fully enclosed, with a swinging door. Not looking forward to drilling through tile to battens to secure the shower screen  :Frown:

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## goldie1

Use these bits   Sutton Tools 6.5mm Glass And Tile Drill Bit I/N 6350098 | Bunnings Warehouse 
easy as

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## bennyddd

Legend!  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Use these bits   Sutton Tools 6.5mm Glass And Tile Drill Bit I/N 6350098 | Bunnings Warehouse 
> easy as

  Look around, Bunnings is such a rip-off for these.  Aldi sold a set sometime back for much less 
or  3mm Marble Tile Glass Drill Bits Tungsten Carbide China Ceramic Hole SAW | eBay 
many more on ebay.

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## bennyddd

Sometimes it's all about convenience, and availability when you live in hobart!  Cheers anyhow  :Smilie:

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## bennyddd

Long time overdue but this was finished some time ago

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## Uncle Bob

> Long time overdue but this was finished some time ago

  Fantastic!

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## goldie1

Nice    :2thumbsup:   very smick

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## bennyddd

Cheers guys and thanks again for your help!

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## doodling

impressive. well done, the floor looks great. The colors are great too
cheers doodling

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## phild01

Looks great  :2thumbsup:

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## bennyddd

Cheers!

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## thenewmrt

> The water stop angle around the shower is there to separate the tiles inside the shower from the tiles 
> on the outside of the shower. The shower tray and the Scyon flooring are installed so they finish 
> flush with each other. With a frame less screen the water stop is then fitted so the top of the angle  
> is flush with the top of the tiles.  You seal it to the floor and walls with Sika.  You then waterproof. 
> The screen is fitted on top of the water stop.   With frame less screens I also fit a water bar 
> under the screen door on top of the tiles. This is a small metal bar shaped like a speed bump. 
> You also need a water stop across the bathroom door sealed with Sika  to the floor and door frame.

  
Hi goldie1, 
Sorry to resurrect this thread...
Just wanted to clarify. Are there 2 water stop angles around a hobless shower and then another one at the entrance to the bathroom?
Also, what materials are people using for water stops? Just some 1mm thick angle from your local aluminium dealer or something specific? 
does anyone screed over Scyon secura when preparing a shower base with a linear drain? 
One last question - is it common practice in VIC to angle the bathroom floor towards the shower drain to prevent pooling? 
Thanks.

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## goldie1

> Hi goldie1, 
> Sorry to resurrect this thread...
> Just wanted to clarify. Are there 2 water stop angles around a hobless shower and then another one at the entrance to the bathroom?
> Also, what materials are people using for water stops? Just some 1mm thick angle from your local aluminium dealer or something specific? 
> does anyone screed over Scyon secura when preparing a shower base with a linear drain? 
> One last question - is it common practice in VIC to angle the bathroom floor towards the shower drain to prevent pooling? 
> Thanks.

  There is one water stop bar around a shower. For a frame less  screen it finishes flush with the tiles. 
For a screen with a frame it finishes above the tiles. 
The second bar I referred to is fitted on top of the tiles under the glass door of a frame less screen 
only. It is the shape of a speed bump and is used because frame less screens commonly leak through 
the gaps to the sides and under the door especially with kids splashing water round. 
The bar that finishes the tiles across the bathroom door is also a water stop and is sealed to the  
floor and door frame. 
1mm al angle is fine to use and skyon can be screeded if needed 
If you have a floor waste  (ie a 1st floor bathroom has to have a floor waste) you have a fall from the 
shower door to the shower waste and a fall from the shower door and the room perimeter to the 
 floor waste. A ground floor bathroom doesn't have to have a floor waste so you can have a  
fall towards the shower if you want or commonly just have the floor level with a fall only  
inside the shower

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## thenewmrt

> There is one water stop bar around a shower. For a frame less  screen it finishes flush with the tiles. 
> For a screen with a frame it finishes above the tiles. 
> The second bar I referred to is fitted on top of the tiles under the glass door of a frame less screen 
> only. It is the shape of a speed bump and is used because frame less screens commonly leak through 
> the gaps to the sides and under the door especially with kids splashing water round. 
> The bar that finishes the tiles across the bathroom door is also a water stop and is sealed to the  
> floor and door frame. 
> 1mm al angle is fine to use and skyon can be screeded if needed 
> If you have a floor waste  (ie a 1st floor bathroom has to have a floor waste) you have a fall from the 
> ...

  Great. Thanks goldie1. Makes sense. It's a ground floor bathroom. Thinking of trimming the joists at an angle and installing Scyon to get the fall. It would be in one direction due to large format tile constraints. So - one half of the bathroom on an angle.
Does this sort of thing sound feasible or is it better just to screed? 
Also - how to people build their subfloors for the shower? Is it FC on the bottom and sides?

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## goldie1

> Great. Thanks goldie1. Makes sense. It's a ground floor bathroom. Thinking of trimming the joists at an angle and installing Scyon to get the fall. It would be in one direction due to large format tile constraints. So - one half of the bathroom on an angle.
> Does this sort of thing sound feasible or is it better just to screed? 
> Also - how to people build their subfloors for the shower? Is it FC on the bottom and sides?

  Answered your first  question in the bathroom forum 
Don't quite understand your second question. Do you mean the floor and wall sheeting in the shower 
Floors I use Skyon or Durafloor and walls villaboard but waterproof plasterboard is also common

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## METRIX

> Long time overdue but this was finished some time ago

  Looks good, good choice of tiles and colors  :2thumbsup:  
You must have the flashiest bathroom in the Neighbourhood.
I like the darker feature wall, we always do this when doing up a bathroom.

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## OBBob

> Looks good, good choice of tiles and colors  
> You must have the flashiest bathroom in the Neighbourhood.
> I like the darker feature wall, we always do this when doing up a bathroom.

  Are you stalking me?   :Biggrin:   You just bumped a thread that I was researching in earlier today.  :eek:

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## METRIX

> Are you stalking me?    You just bumped a thread that I was researching in earlier today.  :eek:

  Please Explain

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## OBBob

> Please Explain

  T'was just weird... I was reading this thread earlier and then you responded to it (almost a year after the last post). Anyway, it does look good.

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## METRIX

Ha Ha Ha, watch out (playing JAWS music) Ha Ha Ha

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## Sbourchier

Hi all, there's one thing I can't quite understand about these tile over precast bases... Most posts recommend using Scyon (available in 19 or 22mm) as the floor substrate, with the precast base sitting directly on the floor joists to achieve a level entry to the shower. The shower bases I've seen all seem to be 25-27mm thick depending on brand, how are people managing to align the top edges of the Scyon and the shower base? From what I can tell there would be a 3-8mm step up into the shower depending on the combination used. Am I missing something?

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## goldie1

> Hi all, there's one thing I can't quite understand about these tile over precast bases... Most posts recommend using Scyon (available in 19 or 22mm) as the floor substrate, with the precast base sitting directly on the floor joists to achieve a level entry to the shower. The shower bases I've seen all seem to be 25-27mm thick depending on brand, how are people managing to align the top edges of the Scyon and the shower base? From what I can tell there would be a 3-8mm step up into the shower depending on the combination used. Am I missing something?

  They were originally made for use with yellow tongue floors ( lets not get into that debate) so 6mm 
tile underlay was added over the Y/T   ( 19mm + 6mm = 25mm )  
Now with 19mm Durafloor or Scyon you pack the joists 6mm to make it flush

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## Sbourchier

Great, thanks Goldie 👍🏽

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## beeg20

Hi goldie1 and doodling,
I am also installing an Ezilay shower base and was curious to find out how yours turned out? Did you have any issues with water drainage by filling the gap above the puddle flange with tile adhesive glue?
Also, i am using a very large base (1800 x 1000), and noticed the fall is minimal. Did you have any issues with the fall built into the shower base? Water draining away ok?
cheers

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## goldie1

I have done a number of them over the last 3 or 4 years and not had any problems. I havn't used the large 
one ( 1800 x 1000) but the fall should be to standard

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## RankAmateur

Hi All,   

> seems this original thread is too old for me to bump.  https://www.renovateforum.com/f247/e...69/index2.html

  Wondering if anybody is around who has installed these bases? The below may seem confusing but would make sense to anyone that has installed these bases. Hoping Goldie is still active on here ��. 
Am about to install an 850x1150 Ezilay base (900x1200 cut). It will go on yellow tongue which sits over ample joists. Surrounding area will be yellow tongue topped with 6mm tile underlay.
The shower base has a plastic piece underneath - roughly 300mm square - that supports the puddle flange. This piece of plastic sits proud of the underside of the base by 1-2mm. With the base sitting on flat yellow tongue the plastic part is in direct contact with the floor but the rest of the base sits up by The 1-2mm shortfall. 
With the above in mind, I constructed the flooring the shower base sits on at about 9mm lower than the surrounding floor. This gives 6mm for the tile underlay and 3mm that I assumed would be adhesive. I had in mind that the adhesive would be applied like a tile adhesive with a notched trowel. 
The instructions for the Ezilay say to use a polyurethane adhesive but no further instruction. 
There is an identical looking shower base by a company called Marmox. Pretty sure is is the same base with a different name. They also suggest polyurethane if installed on noggings with flooring between. They also suggest a cement based adhesive if laying on concrete. 
So, too my questions. What adhesive and how to apply? I would have thought a polyurethane would not fill the small void between the shower base around the plastic and floor? Assuming a cement based adhesive would not be suitable on yellow tongue even with an undercoat, would probably crack with any movement in the floor hence why it is recommended for concrete floors?
It is not too late form me to raise the finished yellow tongue height by a few mm if the shower base simply has a tube of polyurethane applied to the underside. 
Cheers.

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## chippa

I have just installed a universal tile over tray and it came with the puddle flange installed centre outlet.
According to the instructions I am to terminate the  waterproof membrane at  the slightly recessed flange, which is a round one 
of approx 200mm dia. which would leave a ring of approx 50mm of plastic visible after the floor grate (100mm round one) was fitted, with 
no water proofing over. I know this would be ok as far as waterproofing is concerned and flow of any sub tile drainage is concerned and 
would be ok with large tiles but I am wanting to use mosaics which mean I would be adhering them to the plastic only.
Should I try to prime the the flange with maybe pink plumbers priming fluid and continue the membrane right up to the outlet, or will the membrane adhere sufficiently
enough to the plastic by itself, and in turn provide good adherence for the mosaics rather than sticking them to the plastic,  or any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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## droog

The Universal trays are different they are designed to not require a full support floor under the base and can be installed direct to the joists / trimmers. 
The Ezilay tray is designed to have a full supporting floor underneath, the 1-2 mm is for the polyurethane adhesive. The polyurethane adhesives I have used would have no problems with a gap like that, the one that I have used in the past is Sika 11FC

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## RankAmateur

> The Universal trays are different they are designed to not require a full support floor under the base and can be installed direct to the joists / trimmers. 
> The Ezilay tray is designed to have a full supporting floor underneath, the 1-2 mm is for the polyurethane adhesive. The polyurethane adhesives I have used would have no problems with a gap like that, the one that I have used in the past is Sika 11FC

  Get that with regard to support. The tray will have a full support underneath. Still, a bit of Sika under the tray does not seem like a solid base given the tray is not fastened with screws or nails and would inherently have some gaps all around that would later be filled with a flexible tile adhesive. Have you ever tried to bed the tray in a tile adhesive or cement compound?

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## droog

Never used one, not sure how you are going to get gaps that get filled with tile adhesive ? You weight the base down while adhesive sets so gaps should be minimal and how will the tile adhesive get through the waterproof membrane ? 
if you want to deviate from the manufacturers installation instructions I would contact them directly and see what they have to say.

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## RankAmateur

> Never used one, not sure how you are going to get gaps that get filled with tile adhesive ? You weight the base down while adhesive sets so gaps should be minimal and how will the tile adhesive get through the waterproof membrane ? 
> if you want to deviate from the manufacturers installation instructions I would contact them directly and see what they have to say.

  Never used one what?
As for gaps. My assumption was that the shower base sits on structural flooring that is 25mm (plus whatever you allow for adhesive) lower than the surrounding floor. The surrounding floor would have a small gap between it and the shower base.....filled when you tile with the tile adhesive. Or are you saying that the surrounding floor should butt up perfectly to the shower base?
As for  the manufacturers instructions, they are pretty useless. They don’t specify a water angle stop which I would of thought was a good idea?

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## droog

> Never used one what?
> As for gaps. My assumption was that the shower base sits on structural flooring that is 25mm (plus whatever you allow for adhesive) lower than the surrounding floor. The surrounding floor would have a small gap between it and the shower base.....filled when you tile with the tile adhesive. Or are you saying that the surrounding floor should butt up perfectly to the shower base?
> As for  the manufacturers instructions, they are pretty useless. They don’t specify a water angle stop which I would of thought was a good idea?

  No never used an Ezilay, I chose the Universal.
The idea with these bases is that they are walk in, seamless tiles from the surrounding floor to a shower with the required slope for draining built in. The base should line up perfectly with the surrounding floor ready for waterproof and tile.
Any gaps present in the underlay / floor sheeting / shower base should be filled with a polyurethane sealant, areas expecting movement such as wall junction or pipe work should also include a bond breaker, this may be in the form of silicon or a specific bandage. The entire floor area requires waterproofing and includes a bandage over any joins in the floor, this will include the shower base perimeter. 
Once you get to tiling there are no gaps for the adhesive to fill.
Yes water stops can be a good idea but make sure that there is a pathway for any water under the tile to get to a drain. If there is no drain you are just creating a tank for the water to remain in.

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## TommySutton

> Hi All,  
> Wondering if anybody is around who has installed these bases? The below may seem confusing but would make sense to anyone that has installed these bases. Hoping Goldie is still active on here ��. 
> Am about to install an 850x1150 Ezilay base (900x1200 cut). It will go on yellow tongue which sits over ample joists. Surrounding area will be yellow tongue topped with 6mm tile underlay.
> The shower base has a plastic piece underneath - roughly 300mm square - that supports the puddle flange. This piece of plastic sits proud of the underside of the base by 1-2mm. With the base sitting on flat yellow tongue the plastic part is in direct contact with the floor but the rest of the base sits up by The 1-2mm shortfall. 
> With the above in mind, I constructed the flooring the shower base sits on at about 9mm lower than the surrounding floor. This gives 6mm for the tile underlay and 3mm that I assumed would be adhesive. I had in mind that the adhesive would be applied like a tile adhesive with a notched trowel. 
> The instructions for the Ezilay say to use a polyurethane adhesive but no further instruction. 
> There is an identical looking shower base by a company called Marmox. Pretty sure is is the same base with a different name. They also suggest polyurethane if installed on noggings with flooring between. They also suggest a cement based adhesive if laying on concrete. 
> So, too my questions. What adhesive and how to apply? I would have thought a polyurethane would not fill the small void between the shower base around the plastic and floor? Assuming a cement based adhesive would not be suitable on yellow tongue even with an undercoat, would probably crack with any movement in the floor hence why it is recommended for concrete floors?
> It is not too late form me to raise the finished yellow tongue height by a few mm if the shower base simply has a tube of polyurethane applied to the underside. 
> Cheers.

  I installed the 1800 x 900 in my renovation 12 months ago. I cut a relief in the yellowtongue to clear the plastic drain flange with a router. You should use an adhesive like FC11. Apply with a 3mm adhesive trowel. The thickness of the adhesive will be minimal so I'd raise your floor a few mm.

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## RankAmateur

> No never used an Ezilay, I chose the Universal.
> The idea with these bases is that they are walk in, seamless tiles from the surrounding floor to a shower with the required slope for draining built in. The base should line up perfectly with the surrounding floor ready for waterproof and tile.
> Any gaps present in the underlay / floor sheeting / shower base should be filled with a polyurethane sealant, areas expecting movement such as wall junction or pipe work should also include a bond breaker, this may be in the form of silicon or a specific bandage. The entire floor area requires waterproofing and includes a bandage over any joins in the floor, this will include the shower base perimeter. 
> Once you get to tiling there are no gaps for the adhesive to fill.
> Yes water stops can be a good idea but make sure that there is a pathway for any water under the tile to get to a drain. If there is no drain you are just creating a tank for the water to remain in.

  
 Cheers. The Universal has far superior instructions but can mostly be applied to the Ezilay.

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## RankAmateur

> I installed the 1800 x 900 in my renovation 12 months ago. I cut a relief in the yellowtongue to clear the plastic drain flange with a router. You should use an adhesive like FC11. Apply with a 3mm adhesive trowel. The thickness of the adhesive will be minimal so I'd raise your floor a few mm.

  Thanks. Did you use any kind of undercoat on the yellow tongue before putting the 11FC down?

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## TommySutton

No. I just gave it good clean to remove plaster dust and other crap to make sure it got a good bond. 
Once I'd installed it and siliconed the puddle flange to the tray, I used the left over FC11 to seal the perimeter of the flange to the tray so the water didn't pool in the tray recess.

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## RankAmateur

> No. I just gave it good clean to remove plaster dust and other crap to make sure it got a good bond. 
> Once I'd installed it and siliconed the puddle flange to the tray, I used the left over FC11 to seal the perimeter of the flange to the tray so the water didn't pool in the tray recess.

  Thanks. And one more thing if you can. The area the puddle flange fits into is a fair bit lower that the rest of the tray. I assume you just made up to level with tile adhesive?

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## chippa

> Thanks. And one more thing if you can. The area the puddle flange fits into is a fair bit lower that the rest of the tray. I assume you just made up to level with tile adhesive?

   I found the same thing with mine,and the problem was that i was using mosaics therefore the whole of the individual small tile was to be glued to the plastic flange.
I overcame my issue by spreading a thin layer of 11fc over the flange thereby insuring good adherence of the membrane and bringing it up level.

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## TommySutton

> Thanks. And one more thing if you can. The area the puddle flange fits into is a fair bit lower that the rest of the tray. I assume you just made up to level with tile adhesive?

  Yes. Although I used a 150mm x 150mm waste with an 80mm outlet. This filled a fair amount of the void. Just set your waste in with tile adhesive and fill the voids around it to the required height.

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## RankAmateur

Back again!
Looking at the attached picture. Shower is going in the corner. Would you but the Ezilay tray right into the corner or leave a few mm to them fill with adhesive? Kind of like a control joint. 
I’m thinking butting right up is the best thing to prevent any movement of the tray later but I’ve then technically tied the floor and wall together via the tray? 
The plan then is to install villaboard wall sheets - 6mm gap between them and floor and shower tray, use Cromelin tape with the built in control joint, then waterproof. I've seen another thread on here suggesting the wall sheets go in before the shower tray and also a picture which suggests the same?  
Thanks again. 
(photo seems to have flipped on it's side....)

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## TommySutton

I left a few mm around the perimeter to allow for any expansion and then fitted the villaboard afterwards. The thickness of the villaboard will cover the gap around the edges. I then caulked with silicone for the bond breaker and applied the waterproof membrane.

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## RankAmateur

Hello...back again!
am close to waterproofing the shower and a few questions.  
1. I have 12mmx12mm aluminium angle for the water stop. Is this high enough? Tiles are 9-10mm and then figure on 5-6mm adhesive. So technically the top of the water stop will sit above the adhesive and half way up the thickness of the tile. Is this enough?
2. With a frameless shower, do you try and position the water stop to sit directly under the glass, just inside the shower or just outside? I’m thinking directly under?
3. Thinking ahead to tiling. Do you try and tile up to the water stop so the water stop sits in a grout line or doesn’t matter? I’m assuming the tiles inside the shower and outside are separated to allow correct fall from the edge of the shower screen. 
4. Lastly, recommend me a shower waste grate. Struggling to find ones that can be cut down and many seem to have too small of a collar (top of grate would be lower than finished tile height). I’m thinking this grate is basically set forever so something like 316 stainless is going to offer more longevity than chrome over brass? 
Thanks in advance.

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## droog

The higher the angle to the surface of the tile the better, I had mine extend above and then trimmed back flush but of course then it is exposed.
Angle should be directly under or just outside, if it is inside then it will not contain the water inside the shower.
Water stop angle should be in a grout line, it will not stop the moisture if it is all under the tiles. 
Shower waste is really a personal choice, I like the finish of a smart tile but type of tiles will also affect this, getting pattern or mosaic tiles to align with a smart tile can be difficult.

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## chippa

I did something different to my own apposed to any I have done before and it is fantastic.
It may not be everyone's desired finish but it works well and looks great.
Thanks to this pandemic I had time to really think about a solution that has bugged me forever.
I have always disliked those plastic bottom of the glass door water sweep angles so I decided to 
have the shower floor 10mm lower than the main floor, and in my case,(front only,one fixed panel and a door)
but same principle could be used on a return glass type, was to have the door and glass panel finish inside 
the rebated section of the shower floor enabling any run off of water from the door to drip into the lower section of the shower floor.
To achieve this lower floor I installed the shower tray as per normal for a walk in with the top of the tray cut off to finish flush with the bathroom floor
tile underlay,waterproofed over the whole lot
 and into the the main bathroom area,then adhered a 20x20 waterstop angle to the top of the membrane with the bottom leg of the angle 
facing inwards towards the shower floor.I used 11fc to adhere the angle and in a manner no water will get under it.
I then laid another layer of 6mm tile underlay to the outside floor area up to the water stop giving me roughly 14mm of waterstop above- enough for 10mm tile and glue. 
On the shower floor side I now have 20mm of depth for tile and glue. I chose a different tile,8mm thick large 80mm hex mosaic with 3mm of glue which left me with a 9mm high waterstop wall.
Into this i installed the fixed panel hard against the vertical wall of the waterstop resting on 4mm nylon packers.Siliconed to the shower floor. no floor brackets.
The door was 1990 high and the panel was 2000.I installed the door so the top was level with the fixed panel which gave me a gap of 5mm under the door when the door opened outwards.Because the door is positioned over the top of the lowered floor any run off drips into the lower section and away to the central drain.The base was 1480x900.
The glass for the panel and door cost me $280 in total, the hinges were $50 each,and the 2 wall brackets were $25 each and the handle was $30.Total off $460 for the glass front. 
No silicone is visible on the floor of the fixed panel and it looks like the floor tile finishes against the glass albeit with 3mm line of aluminum flush with the top of the tile.

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## RankAmateur

Chippa,
all sounds impressive but I’m already way to far in and lowered my whole floor about 10mm to finish flush with adjoining hallway....Bringing the level up again I can’t do.

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## chippa

I had the same consideration but 6mm is all you are looking at.

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## RankAmateur

> The higher the angle to the surface of the tile the better, I had mine extend above and then trimmed back flush but of course then it is exposed.
> Angle should be directly under or just outside, if it is inside then it will not contain the water inside the shower.
> Water stop angle should be in a grout line, it will not stop the moisture if it is all under the tiles. 
> Shower waste is really a personal choice, I like the finish of a smart tile but type of tiles will also affect this, getting pattern or mosaic tiles to align with a smart tile can be difficult.

  Thanks Droog.
Did you use a 2-3mm piece of aluminium or a 0.3mm plaster's type utility angle....the latter is what a builder friend recommended.
Did you use a multitool to trim the angle?
Tiles are a stone effect porcelain like this. A smart tile could work as I think I'll have a whole tile almost centered on the waste. Some of the tiles don't have as much feature as the example so would probably just come down to picking the right tile.

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## droog

I used the 1.x mm cant remember which exact size but pretty thin, I think you will find that the plasterers angle is just gal and would just rust away if water got in.
Yes multitool to cut then sand the exposed top, used a thin metal plasterers trowel on the porcelain tiles so the multitool did not damage them. 
I had 300 x 600 tiles and centred the waste on a grout line one direction and middle of the tile the other, end up with a bunch of triangles but very even and OCD friendly.

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## TommySutton

As Droog said, the higher the better.  
I went with a 20 x 20 x 1.6 profile. https://www.aluminiumtc.com.au/store...-16-black-713/ I went for black powder coat thinking it would be visible and I wanted it to match the bathroom fittings, but ultimately the angle sits 1-2mm below the top of my tiles. I used a bit more tile adhesive on the perimeter to increase the fall. 
I went for the tile over waste and this also sits about 1mm below the tile surface. Also, when choosing a waste, I found that the sizes are somewhat nominal, and some 80mm wastes don't fit all 80mm puddle flanges.

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## RankAmateur

> I used the 1.x mm cant remember which exact size but pretty thin, I think you will find that the plasterers angle is just gal and would just rust away if water got in.
> Yes multitool to cut then sand the exposed top, used a thin metal plasterers trowel on the porcelain tiles so the multitool did not damage them. 
> I had 300 x 600 tiles and centred the waste on a grout line one direction and middle of the tile the other, end up with a bunch of triangles but very even and OCD friendly.

  I was thinking the waterproofing would extend over the top of the waterstop and out the other side. By cutting you have you now not effectively separated the waterproofing, or I'm missing something?

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## droog

I suppose you could look at it that way, I dont see any other way you can have it extend to the tile height unless you like the look of green / blue / grey waterproofing. 
Guess if the water under the tile gets to that level at least I will see it.

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## Robbod

I hope no one minds if I hijack this thread; but its been very informative and raised several questions in regard to my application. 
My bathroom renovation is somewhat different to whats been described here in that Ive had to step my walk in shower up to tap into my waste which runs through a double brick wallno chance of lowering it. (See attached picture of tile over tray sitting on step) 
Total dimensions of my walk in shower will be 2000 x 1000 
The tile tray Ive purchased was the largest I could have custom made in 1500 x 1000 this leaves it 500mm short to cover the entire step up. 
My question to anyone here is how can I tie the 1500 tile tray to 500mm of material (open to suggestions) and have it adequately waterproofed. Taking into account the tile tray will contain the majority of the fall towards the waste. What fall if any do I have to include in the 500mm of material added. 
I was thinking of laying everything over Scyon flooring (tray needs to be supported) then for the final 500mm another piece of Scyon (19mm) then ceramic flooring (6mm) Giving a seamless level between the 2 materials. 
All joints between wall and floor will then be filled with a bond breaker including the gap between the tile tray and ceramic flooring. 
Where Ive lain the bond breaker will then be covered by a reinforced bandage. Everything will then be covered by a membrane.
Any thoughts will be appreciated.

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## RankAmateur

EDIT! 
Ah... ok, by ceramic flooring then I assume you meant ceramic underlay! Yes, that would work. So you will have a single sheet of scyon with one part covered with the shower tray and then the remaining 500mm covered with another piece of scyon and the tile underlay to come level. 
That would work but you now have a seam in your shower floor which is not ideal. You don't need a bond breaker here but I would fill the gap with polyurethane. This area should act and move as one so I would look at laminating those scyon and tile underlay sheets together to the one underneath as best as possible. Tile underlay is generally glued with stud adhesive and nailed but that is to yellow tongue so check compatibility with for adhesive and scyon. 
A sheet membrane would still be ideal but if you go liquid then make sure you bandage over the seam to give extra strength. Follow the manufacturer's instructions on wet film thickness. 
EDIT EDIT!! 
So, with the above in mind.. back to your fall. You should stick to the tray fall but this is going to be very difficult because it will be going in three directions, toward the centre from either edge and then toward the waste... If the tray has a 1:80 fall then across your remaining 500mm you should have just over 6mm of fall from the wall to the shower tray but you should also have fall from the door back in to the shower... Seriously, I would ditch the tray and get the shower screeded otherwise I think you will have a tiling nightmare. 
Are you going to have a vertical separation from the shower floor to outside, i.e. will the water stop come above the finished tile height and hidden by a shower frame?

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## droog

I know it doesn’t help now but Universal make standard bases as big as 2150x1010, as well as custom sizes.
Some of the answer will be in the screen and door you are fitting, being higher than the rest of the floor probably will need a lip at the door to stop water escaping.
Also there will be some but only limited splash at the far end meaning that you probably only need to slope the extra floor in one direction. 
Assume you will align it with the tray base rather than the lip on the end ? If so what happens with the lip on the outside edge ?

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## RankAmateur

> Assume you will align it with the tray base rather than the lip on the end ? If so what happens with the lip on the outside edge ?

  I believe those trays come with a lip on all sides, they are for rebating in to the wall studs and provide upturn for the waterproofing. The lips you don't need ar cut off level with the base.

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## RankAmateur

Bellessi do one 2100 long as well

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## droog

> I believe those trays come with a lip on all sides, they are for rebating in to the wall studs and provide upturn for the waterproofing. The lips you don't need ar cut off level with the base.

  Fitting the Universal bases for walk in floor you leave the lip on the wall sides and trim the others off, otherwise it will never be “walk in”
Of course this case is not walk in but how will the screen be fitted to the outside edge and what happens at the door. Cutting the lip will need full custom screen with angles to match the slope in the base and mean the silicon at the bottom of the screen is the waterproofing to stop water escaping the shower.

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## Robbod

Yep Rank I'm thinking you are right as this is getting harder than I thought and has the potential to bite me hard on the @rse one or 2 years down the track when this all fails....I didnt mention this is an upstairs bathroom 
My idea was to run large format tiles over the bathroom floor, up the vertical step and approx 70mm into shower tray where it would butt against the waterstop. Then small format tiles in the shower area being easier to accommodate the fall and not having weird angles running everywhere. 
Re. water stop I was going to have it sitting higher so the shower screen could butt up on its inside ;then having it flush with the tile where you walk in (thinking there would be minimal splash 1400mm from the shower head)

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## Robbod

My other idea was to incorporate a hob inside the water tray for the shower screen to sit flat on.....but another area to fail  
If I could get a solid base shower tray 2000mm long it would make things easier...and I would probably bite the bullet and go in that direction....thoughts?

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## droog

> My other idea was to incorporate a hob inside the water tray for the shower screen to sit flat on.....but another area to fail  
> If I could get a solid base shower tray 2000mm long it would make things easier...and I would probably bite the bullet and go in that direction....thoughts?

  I know you stated you cannot lower the waste because you have double brick walls but how is the double brick stopping you from having the waste lower ?
You will end up with a far better result and have less issues to address if it can be lowered.

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## Robbod

Droog the shower waste enters the brick wall just under the top height of the step I've built and seen in my original photo...then it runs at right angles where it appears to pick up the waste from the basin approx 1.2 metres further into the room at which point it runs downward  
I don't really have the appetite cracking up bricks 1/2 way across the room chasing the waste. 
I was hoping it was going to be a relatively basic bathroom reno

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## droog

Your move to not use the current base is probably the best first step.
Personally I would be double checking any possible options to lower the waste as the end result will be far superior.
If the only option is to continue with a raised level check the low profile traps that are available today. There are manufactures that will make a custom base to that size, two are mentioned above. However I don’t see that a preformed base gives any benefit, just form the fall using joists and trimmers set with the required fall it’s not as if you are fighting for space. Cut the compressed cement sheet floor where the angle changes, poly urethane seal the joints and waterproof over the lot. Also constructing it this way it is easier to create the hob that will be needed for the raised base.

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## JB1

> Droog the shower waste enters the brick wall just under the top height of the step I've built and seen in my original photo...then it runs at right angles where it appears to pick up the waste from the basin approx 1.2 metres further into the room at which point it runs downward  
> I don't really have the appetite cracking up bricks 1/2 way across the room chasing the waste. 
> I was hoping it was going to be a relatively basic bathroom reno

  Are you doing the plumbing yourself? 
If not what did the plumber say? 
Would look infinitely better to have flush to the floor. 
Furthermore, you can have a full length shower (wall to wall). That 500mm gap between the shower and the wall is awkward.  
Anyway considering your options before you start sheeting the walls.

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## Robbod

Thanks Droog, Rank and JB1 for some timely advice here. I'm ditching the tray and reconsidering my options re. the install. Next time I will definitely do my research before plunging head long into a solution that I think will work 
Re. the plumbing....I'm not doing it myself but the plumber I brought in gave me the option and the thought of cutting joists / cracking holes in walls traying to chase the waste and bringing it down even with the rest of the floor didn't appeal for what is essentially a spare bathroom. 
Thanks again for your help

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## RankAmateur

> Thanks Droog, Rank and JB1 for some timely advice here. I'm ditching the tray and reconsidering my options re. the install. Next time I will definitely do my research before plunging head long into a solution that I think will work

  Here is another option. Have three levels and a hob. Keep the tray. The 500mm area will be a mid level between the shower and the rest of the bathroom. Have a small hob all the way around the tray. The hob becomes your waterstop. Your glass on the long side can sit on the hob. The short side can have a small step over hob which again is your waterstop. 
Or, more radical but might look quite good. Have two small steps up to the 500mm area which would itself be slightly higher than the shower area effectively giving you a step down (this would be your waterstop) in to the shower.

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