# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  HELP,    I stuffed my staircase.

## Schumi

Hi All,  I hate to say but I have become the victim of the old measure twice and cut once, But in my case measure twice and weld once.   I have fabricated a set of stairs off the landing of my deck,   Specs are-  170 rise inc tread of 45mm. This gave me a gap in-between my treads of 125mm.   Ok my huge problem is that I forgot to calculate the thickness of the tread on my landing, so all my steps are even except the step up to the landing, I made an error of measuring up 125mm from the second step to the top of the landing (top of deck board) and not adding the 45mm of the tread thickness. So basically all my steps are a 170mm rise except the step to the landing which is 125mm.   Does anybody have any thoughts on how I can fix this?  Is the landing considered a step? Could I get away with this during the inspection?  I thought about routing my treads out where they sit on the brackets so that I could gain a bit more height on that first step, but I would have to do it to each step and I Still would not get an even spread across all.   Any suggestions would be much appreciated.  I have attached a pic below so that you can get a better understanding of what I was trying to explain. The problem is the very first bracket of the landing. The base will later be leveled of and filled with concrete to make the last step on the ground even.  Thanks  Anthony

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## Bedford

Bugger!!  :Biggrin:  I would cut the stringers off the posts and lower the whole thing, as you seem to have enough clearance at the bottom.

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## Gaza

could you use a steel plate instead of timber on the landing, so its only 5mm thick not 45mm only issue is that the first rise after the landing might not work.

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## ringtail

x 2 with Bedford. Its the only way to get it legal.

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## Bloss

If you bolt the treads on the underside of the brackets rather than the top using a steel plate or suitable washers on the bottom does that not fix the problem? Late at night and tired so maybe my thinking is not the best . . . Not the best look of course. The best option would be to grind off the brackets, re-mark and re-weld, but that is a PITA. Bedford & Ringtail would also work. A single odd height step onto a landing or from the ground to first step is less an issue in real usage - so long as all the others are identical (it's really multiple variations of more than 4-6mm between each tread which causes trip and judgement hazard).

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## ringtail

Nah still wouldnt work as the rise to the landing will be out once the decking goes down. Had to think about that one bloss - nearly got me.

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## r3nov8or

A variation on Bloss's, you could route, tablesaw or dado cut the slots into the ends of the treads at just the right level, slide them on and bolt. A benefit is that the tread plates will be hidden under and over by the tread, and also the plates could be hidden from the front edge of the tread if you do a 'stop dado' (i.e. don't cut the slots through the front of the tread). The slots could then be at different heights within the tread ends and no one would know. Could turn a disaster into a design feature  :Smilie:

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## Schumi

HI Guys,  Thanks for all the advice,  Bloss I thought about bolting to the underside but like ringtail said it would still be out. Renovator your proposal sounds like a good idea and I think it would look good as well, because I could slide the two 140 x45mm treads from the front and back and you wouldn’t see the cut.  But like Bloss said all the steps are spot on except that first one down off the landing so if I drop the tread height on that step It means that I have to alter all steps I would be lucky to gain 20-30 mm on that first step, but It means I have to alter every step to keep a similar height.   I would really like to cut and start again but that picture is a bit old , I have actually undercoated , painted and finished all the decking on the main part and the landing, I have been using bits of 4x2 for the treads for the last few months as I was going to attack the steps last. Also the connection to the top left corner took a bit of measuring and cutting with templates to get a good fit on the post and cross member, so that left stringer would most probably be to short for me to cut and start again.   Bloss like you said it doesn't feel like a trip hazard as the step is to the landing. I even contemplated changing the joists on the landing from 90x45 to 140 x 45 so I could gain the extra height, But then how can I cover the 50mm step down to the main deck from the landing.  I will take a few more shots and sit the treads on.   I am using a council certifier Is there any way of getting some form of dispensation in regards to the top step?

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## president_ltd

Here's an idea, but its still a bit of work (but less work than cutting and re-welding/bolting):
 - add packers under all risers except the top one. 
on top step, put tread over packer of 43mm
on second step down, put tread on a 36mm packer
on third step down put tread on a 28mm packer
on fourth step down, put tread on a 21mm packer
on 5th step down, put tread on a 14mm packer
on 6th step down, put tread on a 7mm packer
may need a landing pad on the grass. 
a little bit of cutting but could end up ok. 
if you want to make it easier, you could get some "horseshoe plastic packers", bunnings even have em, utemad posted a picture of em at http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...d/DSC00198.jpg 
then all you need is longer screws to screw your treads over into the metal

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## r3nov8or

prez, you are on the same track as me, where I said "The slots could then be at different heights within the tread ends", but you did the maths!. Schumi, if you bought a chunkier wood for the treads prez's 'creep down in size' method could be achieved with dado cuts. But it'll be a slow careful process of measure 20 times, cut once.

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## ringtail

Brains trust working overtime with this one eh. I like the slot method but cant help feel it opens the end grain up for moisture attack a bit too much. Could always run a bead of sika though. The packers would work also and maths aint my strong suit so tell me how putting a 43 mm packer then a 45 mm tread ( total of 88 mm) on the top bracket is going to make it legal ? Wont that leave a final rise of 37 mm to the top of the decking ? Like I said maths aint my strong suit  so feel free to shoot me down.  
I cant see any way other than a 9 inch grinder. Surely it cant be that involved. Some nice neat slices and you wont loose any length of the stringers, just slide it down 45 mm and youre grinning.

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## Schumi

Hi Guys,  I have discovered that the best way to solve a problem is to share it with as many minds as possible, as from your responses I can see that you are really trying to help me out on this. I have posted a few more pics, you can actually see how evident the problem is. In the pic with the top few steps.  I should of checked it after I made the steps, but that was at the beginning of my outside frame construction, I totally forgot about the decking thickness of the landing and was always calculation on the tread thickness, thus only leaving the 125mm gap on that top step. So time went by laying all the main decking and painting not realizing what was looking at me all this time, Finally finished all the main part, ( a few holidays in-between, rainy days off, Can't be bothered days, golf and fishing days) 8 months later went on to the landing and stairs and F @#** realized my huge stuff up. I sulked for a few weeks, I am a qualified tradesman in a different field and pride on doing things right and planning, so this really hurts every time I look at it. Actually hurts more than falling into one of my huge footings when I started it and that left with a few grazes.  President when you mean top step do you mean landing (19mm deck board) I am with Boss on this one not to sure what you mean Pic might help.  Ringtail can you see why I don't won't to take a grinder to it the join on that top left stringer took allot of measure 10x cut once .   I thought about grinding the angle brackets of but they are top and bottom welded and a few Tek screws in each for a bit of extra fun.  As you can see the landing is a separate section which I could easily rise by changing the joists ( not to much trouble). The join between the deck and landing is a board perpendicular. If I raise the landing the 45mm how could I overcome this small and I'm sure illegal step at this point.  My inspector seems like a pretty decent guy, when he inspected my footings he even told me to fill them in and save some money on concrete but he did say I will see you in a few weeks when you are finished, he may have since retired.

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## ringtail

Nope, cant see any reason not to slice it  :Tongue:  :Tongue:  :Biggrin: . Still, the beauty of steel is no such thing as too short - just another weld to do. But since there is such a obvious solution we wont get the 9 inch out just yet. Raise the landing mate. What is the height difference - exactly ? I'll have a flick through the BCA and see if there is anything in the fine print. Ive got 20 mm step down between two of my decks where they join and just ran a piece of quad along the join and my certifier didnt even notice. Most certifiers want a 20 mm step down from house floor level so you ight get away with, but I'll check. Back soon

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## Bedford

What about incorporating a door mat into the size of landing area, you'd need to box it in so it can't slip, but could make it adjust the levels.

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## jiggy

Don't think the rise in the landing would be illegal, if you rip down some timbers to 26mm and lay them on top of your joists in the landing area that will bring it up to height. Cut the strips  shorter than the landing width to allow for a strip of ripped down decking timber to be added  as a facing .

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## ringtail

I cant find anything in the BCA or AS 1684 about different floor heights. If you are allowed  30 or 40 mm difference in floor height going into a wet area I think you will be fine with  a 20 mm step down from deck to landing. You can always taper the landing for run off aswell which is perfectly legal, so the low end of the landing is the right rise and the high end ( deck end )  is out or the other way around.

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## Schumi

I need to rise a total of 45mm up on the existing landing, so that would be my step from the landing to the main deck.   I am tempted to leave it as is and let the certifier come out and do his thing, if he picks on it I will raise the landing up. He may be reasonable or may not, I think it's a gamble I may take. I will allow for some extra height in my balustrade should I have to raise the floor up.

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## r3nov8or

I reckon you should make it right. I wouldn't want to be 'responsible' for a stumble down the stairs when the second step is 'awkwardly' almost 2 inches further than the first.  No one expects that, especially on a brand spankin' new and great lookling structure like yours.

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## ringtail

Agree. Fix it before the council come out. If the inspector goes tits up on the stairs he wont be happy. Dont give him any reason to come back. Everyone can have a bad day and if he is having one when he does your inspection you could be in a wolrd of hurt. Looking at the photos, it looks like a dead easy fix.

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## Schumi

Ok Boys, 
Job booked in for my next few days off, I will raise the landing up 45mm.  
Ringtail just confirming this height should be OK for a step on to my deck from the landing.  
Two options I have thought about. 
1. Raise the joists the required height and rip a board around the landing to dress it as suggested by Jiggy 
2 . Cut the landing decking shorter at the deck end to allow 2 boards perpendicular ( currently had 1) and ramp up to the landing so as not to have a step. currently 1 board (90mm) to raise 45mm heigh is to steep but 180mm (2 boards) seems better. Not to sure how this will look or feel when walking over it.

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## r3nov8or

I don't think a mini ramp will reduce a 45mm trip hazard much. Option 1 for mine.

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## Schumi

Hi Guy's  
Finally got around to fixing my stuff up, I raised the joists the required level, It has turned it into a bit of a feature, happy with the end result but would be happier to not have had to do this. Now can finally get back to finishing of the rest of the deck just in time for spring I hope, 
Just a quick question guys, I am building my hand rails out of primed pine in sections and fixing to the inside of my posts, My Balusters are 42 x 18, what do you reccomend for fixing to top and bottom rail for the balusters, Screw or nail, should I also liquid nail. I do have a Brad gun for my compressor would two shots at top and bottom be ample?  
Thanks for all the advice for the stairs I have attached a pic of the end result. 
Thanks
Anthony

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## r3nov8or

Well done Anthony. I think you've ended up with the best compromise/result.

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## simonsthedog

Hi guys, just joined and this is my first post! I would love to help out with any stair problems.
The step in the landing should be less than 6mm to be legal. If your inspector has a problem with it you could suggest a coloured stick-on strip to make people aware of the hazard, or else ramp the other decking up to it. I would also run the balusters 15mm into a groove on the underside of your handrail and definitely screw them with 'plastic' treated pine screws.

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