# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  LED downlights, any good?? recommend me some

## wozzzzza

have them halogen downlights in my kitchen in new house, dont like them, hot and uses lots of power. looking at keeping downlights but using LED ones.
anyone recommend any LED down lights that give decent light?? would these be any good? http://www.ledshoponline.com/GU10_le...bs.htm#GU10jdr

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## Bloss

I reckon you are better to use CFC downlights as they give better light than existing LEDs at a cheaper price. Still a bit early for decent light from LEDs IMO. Plenty of CFC options from Bunnings and lighting specialists.  :2thumbsup:

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## China

I have 8x18w CFC downlights in my lounge room, I was unsure at first but they have turned out great

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## president_ltd

you'll find that LEDs aren't yet 'natural' (warm white) yet.
but if you are ok with the stark white of fluro.... 
the "warm white" LEDs aren't quite there yet, at least they weren't 12-18 months ago.
i'm sure they will get there - but not yet...  
we use 240V CFLs everywhere in our house.
specifically, using the same as shown at http://www.environmentshop.com.au/Pr...s.asp?PID=3246
we use a "warm white" CFL in it, perhaps 70% brightness at turn on, maximum brighness in about +20 seconds. 
great in the kitchen.
in fact, great everywhere. 
house has about 2 dozen of those fittings (rewire/recable/relight as part of house reno ~12 months ago)  
under the overhead kitchen cupboard, use a LED strip light.
sort of like http://www.ledlighting.com.au/500mm-...-led-tile.html but got mine from ledshoponline - but they don't seem to sell the one i bought anymore...
(i say 'sort of like' because what i got was nowhere near as bright nor was it meant to be, the ones i have are white LEDs, i think 30 of them per 600mm tube, 4W power consumption for 600mm, 3 of those = 12W).
just enough to remove shadows etc if you have a light above/behind you while chopping something...

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## wozzzzza

what the hell are cfc downlights?? anyone got alink to them? a google search return all different sorts and i dont know what im looking at.

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## president_ltd

> what the hell are cfc downlights?? anyone got alink to them? a google search return all different sorts and i dont know what im looking at.

  see my post right above yours.  i included a link to what we have.

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## GraemeCook

Wozza 
Some time ago Smurf published the following table of light outputs for various types of globes:   *Incandescent bulbs* (1000 hour household type): 
25W = 150 lumen
40W = 300 lumen
60W = 600 - 700 lumen
75W = 900 lumen 
100W = 1150 - 1350 lumen
150W = 2100 lumen
200W = 3000 lumen 
18W fluoro tube = 1250 lumen  [*ie old style long fluoros*]
36W fluoro tube = 3150 lumen
58W fluoro tube = 5100 lumen 
8W energy saving lamp = 300 lumen  [ie *Compact fluoros - CFS's*]
11W energy saving lamp = 550 lumen
15W energy saving lamp = 850 lumen
20W energy saving lamp = 1200 lumen   
100W self-ballasted mercury vapour = 1700 lumen
160W self-ballasted mercury vapour = 3150 lumen
250W self-ballasted mercury vapour = 5500 lumen 
28W 240V *halogen lamp* (direct replacement for incandescent bulb) = 345 lumen
42W 240V halogen lamp (direct replacement for incandescent bulb) = 600 lumen
70W 240V halogen lamp (direct replacement for incandescent bulb) = 1200 lumen            Smurf's list did not include LED's but they are about the same efficiency as CFC's.   CFCs and LEDs are the most efficient available without going to long fluoros. 
If you chose CFCs make sure that you buy 'warm light' globes - these are much nicer than the harsh ultra white ones. 
Cheers 
Graeme 
PS:  Thanks for collating and publishing that table, Smurf, hope you do not mind me repeating it.

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## atregent

There's two problems I have with CFLs, and they're both deal breakers for me. The can't be dimmed (I know you can get the stepped dimmable ones, but that's not the same), and when I turn on a light, I want light. Now. Not in a minutes time. 
LEDs, when they are good enough to compete with incandescent and halogens, will tick both of those boxes for me. They're getting better and brigher all the time, so I don't think it'll be too long.

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## rod1949

Bit like you Wozzzzza I been experimenting with LED downlights, but in the 12volt MR16's.  I've brought a few different varieties from LEDshop, but I've been disappointed with the light brightnesses. 
A little while ago I found this link http://www.savepower.com.au/  The gear looks promising but I need a goldmine to buy the stuff. 
In the meantime I'll just bide my time until the product seems compariable with the price.

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## Bloss

Bunnings and all lighting shops sell various CFC downlights. Compton is one brand http://www.crompton.com.au/uploads/L..._Mouse_Pad.pdf Nelson another http://www.nelsonlamps.com.au/produc...L%20Downlights. Warm white's the go too. Downlights and especially CFCs are for where lights are intended to be switched on and left on for a while - the new ones I have take about 30-50 secs to get to full brightness. Use 240v or 12v halogen if you want instant light for short periods. :2thumbsup:

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## Tradie

Hi All, 
I've recently changed our whole house from Halogens to LED's. 
My brother in law came across LED Lights - Australia's Superior Quality LED Lighting Retailer  :2thumbsup:  who have 9 watt LED's with 60 degree beam angle at a really cheap price. They are pretty much more than 50% cheaper than other mobs selling the same product. 
I bought 28 MR16 LED's and I am more than happy with the result. They are as bright as the halogens I had in before. 
My brother in law who did the same thing a few months back is seeing the savings on his electricity bill already. 
Now we are trying to convince our parents to do the same  :Smilie:  
Cheers

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## Bloss

A good idea if you have many halogens and they are used a lot. Your payback on 28 will be a little over 5 years (assuming 4 hrs a day use) and since they should last 20 or more that's worth it. And energy prices have been doubling every 5 years or so and are likely to go up faster - so an even better deal. 
The calculator on that site is a good one, but should be used with care though - make sure the average hours used are how you use yours (the default of 8 hours a day is a very high 'average' - 4 for every halogen would be closer for most). Electricity price varies across the country - the default is roughly the NSW price. If yours is lower the savings will be lower. 
These are really useful for those few who have solar PV (and for that matter those using diesel gensets so far as load goes!) - 1) as the lighting load is reduced significantly and 2) if you are getting a gross feed-in tariff (such as in ACT and NSW - soon anyway) the less power you use the greater your net return. 
The lower powered 4W LEDs can be dimmed too.  :2thumbsup:  Over time these should reduce in price and perform better.

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## mattski2008

I have found this demonstation from cree which are apparently the leaders in LED technology. the leds do look like a real warm white and give great coverage. The demo shows them compared to CFC's and incandescent lighting.  http://www.creeledlighting.com/demos...Comparison.pdf
Another interesting site is the LED Lenser site which shows leds in torches. one worth looking at is the  x21

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## Bloss

> My brother in law came across LED Lights - Australia's Superior Quality LED Lighting Retailer  who have 9 watt LED's with 60 degree beam angle at a really cheap price. They are pretty much more than 50% cheaper than other mobs selling the same product.

  
They are competitive, but not always cheaper than quite a few others around - as always it pays to shop around. Also to ask the price for the number you want not just the single unit price (which will usually be RRP). An I always give the 'local bloke' a go too - if they are within 5% I'll by from a local small business. If they won't or can't price match you can always just get them off the net!  :2thumbsup:

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## woodbe

> My brother in law came across LED Lights - Australia's Superior Quality LED Lighting Retailer  who have 9 watt LED's with 60 degree beam angle at a really cheap price. They are pretty much more than 50% cheaper than other mobs selling the same product.

  Tradie, thanks for the link. I've tried before to find non-toy LED's. These ones sound like they might be up to the job. I've ordered a handful for the kitchen. If that works out ok, I'll replace the rest of our hungry halogens. 
woodbe.

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## Master Splinter

Woodbe - let us know how your kitchen LEDs go - I'll be looking for lighting options in a few months time!

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## woodbe

Will do, no sweat.  :Smilie:  
woodbe.

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## woodbe

Just an update on this. 
I bought the lights, delivery was prompt and the products look very well made. 
I jumped up on the kitchen bench and replaced a couple of halogens, flicked the switch, nothing. This is the circuit with a dimmer on it. 
Turns out, not all transformers are compatible, and in the kitchen, ours weren't. I tried the same globe in the lounge, and it works fine. Bought some new trannies from ledcentral that are compatible (costs mounting up now), and they work. The new transformers are labelled the same as the old ones (11.5V) go figure. 
One of the 3 circuits in the kitchen has a dimmer on it. This causes rather annoying flickering (~50hz) on that circuit, even when it's full-on. Next time we have a sparky nearby, I'll get it taken out. Of the other globes, one has a bit of a flicker, not as bad as the dimmer circuit though. I'm thinking these may prefer DC to AC... Apparently ledcentral are aware that some dimmers are not so hot, but no list as yet. I haven't gotten back to them about the non-dimmed flicker, should do so. 
So in summary, the amount and quality of light is good. Very comparable to the halogens they replaced. Having to replace perfectly good transformers is a bit annoying, and the flicker issue is frustrating. I'd suggest buying a couple and testing in your own home before going all-in. 
woodbe.

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## NigeC

Leading edge or trailing edge dimmer?
Trannies electronic or iron core?

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## woodbe

> Leading edge or trailing edge dimmer?
> Trannies electronic or iron core?

  What is a leading/trailing edge dimmer? It's a HPM from about 2001, how would I tell? It is wired in series with the switch. They make an audible hum when warm.  These Trannies Osram Redback Electronic. 
woodbe.

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## NigeC

Sorry I was talking about the old trannies and why they wouldn't work with the new LED's 
Dimmers are suited to different lighting types ie incandesant, halogen, LED etc etc. Your new trannies say they work with both types of dimmer so that isn't the problem. How many lights do you have connected to the dimmer? Perhaps it is just on it's way out 
Audible hum doesn't sound right (every pun intended)

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## woodbe

Old trannies were electronic. Euro label. I can get the details if you want, I think there were 2 different types, neither worked. 
On the dimmed circuit, there is just 2 lights. 
Mea Culpa, I got the irates with it yesterday and took the dimmer out myself. No flicker from those lights at all now. So we just have a little bit of flicker on the other circuit. It's not bad, and watching it, the flicker seems to come in waves minutes apart. Weird.  :Smilie:  
woodbe.

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## GraemeCook

Woodbe 
I had the same result when I tried putting CFC globes in a dimmer circuit.  I rationalised that if I did not use it as a dimmer, just using the on-off switch, then it would work fine.   No such luck - it did not work at all. 
When I posted on this forum, it was pointed out that I may have created quite a dangerous situation - high fire risk.   I do not know about LEDs in this situation, but it might be worth searching. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## woodbe

Graeme, 
When I pulled the switch plate, it had 2 circuits on it, 1 of which was not dimmed, so I could see what the difference was between the plain and dimmed circuits. 
And it worked, that's a good sign.  :Smilie:  
Thanks for your concern. I will get it checked by the sparky in any case. 
woodbe.

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## woodbe

Couldn't find your post Graeme, but I did find this.   

> Incadescent lamps are purely resistive and can be dimmed with a resistive device (VERY inefficient) or an electronic device called a triac. (Dual SCRs with a single gate electrode) These devices eliminate part of the AC Sine wave on every cycle. It keeps the voltage at zero until it is time to turn on for the remainder of the Sine wave. These devices do not work on Fluorescent lamps and can actually cause a fire if used with Fluorescent lamps.

  Didn't know that, but it doesn't match our situation either. Does that sound like what you were up against? 
Woodbe.

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## wozzzzza

well the LED down lights i have been using for about 9 months now are these http://cgi.ebay.com.au/10x-240V-60-L...item2c52213306
they are great, nice solid light, cool, dont get any more than barely warm even after being left ona ll day, you can hold them in your hand unlike halogens.
they replaced my 50w halogens, the LED ones arent quite as bright but still good enough for me. I havent looked back and never had one blow yet.

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## Wombat2

OK you guys have convinced me - LEDS coming up. We have 15 12volt Halogen down lights in the lounge/living/kitchen on an open plan and they are usual all on at once (4 switches)  I have just replaced all the light fittings as after 15 years the originals have yellowed/browned and looked crap against the new white painted ceilings (we had the placed rented out for 9 years and just moved back) Stuck with the 12 volt as I had this idea I might change to a 12 volt solar system 'one day'  Two transformers aren't working so will need to replaced - any advantage in dimming LEDs? If so I can re-arrange things and put the new dimmable ones on two of the lounge lights.  Also why have a transformer per light? It would be a lot more efficient energy wise to run multiple lights from a single transformer. OK higher currents long runs etc - I know all that - I built a house and ran it on a 110 volt wind generator for 4 years - had all the lights at 12 volts and wired them up with normal power cable instead of light cable - and distances of up to 30 metres from the power source - no dramas, so a larger transformer in the roof near the lights with say up to 10 lights supplied by it would save some energy and improve efficiency 
Or am I missing something in the regs?

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## woodbe

I don't know about the regs, but it makes sense to use one tranny for multiple LEDS, they draw a fraction of the current of the original halogens. 
When I had to replace my trannies because they were incompatible, I put 2 lights per tranny - could easily do more but the distances made wiring them a pain. 
woodbe.

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## Black Cat

OK, coming into the conversation late, but I am planning on four downlights for the kitchen. Was rather fancying the halogen gimbal lights, but you have convinced me the LED are a better bet (especially if the halogen ones heat you up too much). So, do the LED bulbs fit into a downlight designed for a halogen? Or do they require special light fittings as well?

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## woodbe

Should fit any fitting designed for Halogen. Certainly ours fit any 12v fitting we have tried it in. 
woodbe.

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## Black Cat

Great! Another question crossed off the list - who would have thought there were so many issues involved in building an extension ... It's exhausting trying to keep up at times, lol

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## phil

if you are looking for a decent Australian designed LED try www.dolphinlighting.com
used them on many jobs and never had a problem    

> have them halogen downlights in my kitchen in new house, dont like them, hot and uses lots of power. looking at keeping downlights but using LED ones.
> anyone recommend any LED down lights that give decent light?? would these be any good? LED Home lighting - 240volt AC GU 10

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## autogenous

LED lighting seems to be one of those technologies thats rapidly developing. 
Do some research and shop around for the different technologies. 
Theyre like when home computers were introduced.  Major advancements by the week.  Well at least it feels that way.  They have some wider angled ones now. 
I have a CREE LED headlamp that nearly blinds my wife at 6 metres even at wide angle. It holds 3 AAA batteries that lasts for ages.  They must use bugger all power and being pinned to your forehead, not that hot..

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## vfastbear

Hello there, I`ve changed all my 240v halogen down lights to led lights already and am very happy with the results. I personally prefer the cool white which my leds provide to soft white lighting.  I have mainly used 5w single element led units which put out an equiv light of around a 40w halogen. One thing to look for is the beam angle, on halogens it usually is quite narrow and the same applies to Leds, that is a concentrated beam, so it looks bright. I did try some fluro type lights as downlights but they were hopeless with a very large beam angle, so providing a very "grey dead light" feel as compared to either Led or halogens. The leds are quite expensive $35-45 each but have a very long life and of course cost next to nothing to run. I got mine mainly from a company called Prime Electronics in Brisbane. ( I hope I can put that ? )
Tony - vfastbear

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## Pijiu

One good Australian supplier of LED's, power supplies, enclosures, reflectors, diffusers etc is Cutter: Cutter Electronics 
For the adventurous, some very, very bright single package LED's (up to 4500 Lumens) are the Luminous Phatlight LED's: High performance solid state light sources 
These are available from Avnet reasonably cheaply: https://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...194+4294864944 
The best and most efficient way I've found to power LED's is with a switching supply (at much higher frequencies than 50Hz AC, eg. several 10's of kHz....this way they can also be dimmed by changing the frequency or duty cycle). There are lots of different switching supplies available cheaply to do this, depending on the application etc..

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## leddownlights

Well i found this website a month or so ago Cheap Led Lights, Led Lights Australia, Buy Led Down Lights - they sell a good range of led down lights, fittings and other stuff. Worth checking out. 
I bought a few sets my self and really happy with the results

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## watson

> Well i found this website a month or so ago Cheap Led Lights, Led Lights Australia, Buy Led Down Lights - they sell a good range of led down lights, fittings and other stuff. Worth checking out. 
> I bought a few sets my self and really happy with the results

  You're a goose mate.
The thread is a year old........(honk honk)
Why don't you just say.............."I own a lighting business...here is my site" 
Honk Honk Honk (goose noises in case nobody understands)

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## Pulpo

These post responses should be deleted. 
So those doing future searches it cannot be read. 
Ebay is your best bet with LED.

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## johnc

Looks like we have either a flock of geese or have just been joined by a Turkey. :Wink 1:

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