# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  weird or... normal

## denaria

I'm curious. I wonder at the costs of modern houses. The double brick, the besser block and the wood frame, and maybe there are other materials in local areas such as log cabins. Are they all comparable in price? Do people choose based on price? or resaleability?  or conformability? Which brings to mind the question of where is the individuality of design or does it cost too much? Sure a medieval castle in besser block might not appeal to all..   :Smilie:   Does anyone have weird places or do only dingaling architects step out of the norm? 
And the why of plasterboard as a surface material over everything - I would have thought any cavities would encourage pests, disguise leaks and prevent repair. Wouldn't surface mounted utilities be more accessible since we're used to skirting boards and some in old houses have picture rails not interfering with the effect. Wood roof trusses seem to be getting thinner and thinner requiring perhaps more of them, eliminating any usable, accessible attic space. Oh and does that thin blue/silver insulating paper really work after being penetrated? I could go on.. but I've said enough for now.

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## Black Cat

I think I am getting a headache, but I get what you are saying. I am bothered by the proliferation of flatpack housing that is high energy materials, cheap construction with maybe a 30 year life design life, low energy performance ratings and very very popular due to cost implications. 
Poor design also impacts on energy efficiencies. I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring.

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## watson

Black cat..that last sentence is beautiful..............I'm gunna steal that one and drop it in conversations everywhere.
Bewdy!!
 I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring.
 I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring.
 I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring. 
Wonderful!!

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## Black Cat

slow day at the office then watson? lol

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## denaria

lol watson, teacher (aka Black Cat) give you a hundred lines? And warbles off key to Black Cat... "Aspro will ease it!"

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## Black Cat

No. some well-placed bullets will sort it out. Sadly none of the headache makers are worth doing time for though ...

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## frankvaux

> Black cat..that last sentence is beautiful..............I'm gunna steal that one and drop it in conversations everywhere.
> Bewdy!!
>  I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring.
>  I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring.
>  I like some degree of articulation in a facade though as it adds interest and stops an otherwise square object seeming boring. 
> Wonderful!!

  That's enough for today, son..........time to put the bottle away.

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## seriph1

at least when builders take the shirt off our backs they replace it with a monkey

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## ringtail

Here I was thinking this could be a interesting thread. Ah well.

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## denaria

lol I had hopes, ringtail. Mostly because having designed two houses now based on what's permissible and what I want, the gap over the years is gradually widening to where few if any of the present days standards are ones I'd live with. The first was because on a visit back to Australia, I bought a lot in the far north here then took back to California the building code to design a house based on those rules. Having lived in an all wood house in the States, and an excellently built one circa 1957, I realised I never want wood in the structure again after regularly checking for termites which were as common there as here. I might add those many years ago the building code for structural design was cheap to buy and a slim volume. I built a to scale model, and drew my own plans and returned to Australia, hiring an architect to see it through and keep an eye on the builder. Sadly expertise in building in the far flung areas of this part of the empire was not easily obtained and the house resulted in many many mistakes, partly because "we've always done it this way" instead of according to plans. I'm sure the present owners are very pleased with their large cyclone-proof house, we lasted 9 years. What we live in now is much more suited to our tastes, unconventional though they be, and require closely studying the code to see where what is mandated differs from our dreams and conforming where necessary. But then we have no intention of ever selling this place and having no heirs, who cares what happens after we're gone.

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## ringtail

I'd love this thread to get going but fear it would slide into a slagging match. I have a lot of ideas that I have put into practice in my own house and all of them have worked. Its not rocket science, just good design allowing for cross ventilation, shading, passive solar access and insulation where needed. I think one problem is Australia has such a huge climate variation that one design or concept cant possibly suit all locations and only the orientation of the house is universal ( NNW to NE). Apart from the appaling display of pastiche architecture in Australia perhaps the biggest issue is the move towards energy efficency which basically pushes people to live in air tight eskies with the A/C on 24 /7/ 365.

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## denaria

It could be an interesting thread...  I do know some things I'm not allowed to do which I'd have preferred. Like have a 2100 ceiling, I'm not growing any taller, and that height I'd be more capable of cleaning it. I did include 4 foot hallways for the possible need of wheelchair access, and ramps. I have no problem with surface mounted services - there's conduit that's quite acceptable aesthetically and again easily repaired without knocking a wall down to get inside. That previous house did get it right regarding the roof, slab, tar-like membrane, styrofoam like layer then topping screed. I never worried about impending cyclones with the roof, but glass sliding doors bowing in and out with the blasts in a cyclone overhead scared the willies out of me so I ruled that out of the subsequent house. Most of these items are security rather than style. 
lol one becomes very energy efficient when there IS no grid around and one learns to live without air conditioning even in high humidity/high temperatures. One area a householder is permitted to be creative is with tiles and fittings such as counters, benches..
I'm sure others can suggest more areas where one can make their abode personalised.

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## Master Splinter

My attempts at house personalisation have been thwarted in the past by the cost factor.  All the materials that seem to offer a DIY advantage (hebel, styrene wall panels and similar wall paneling systems) all seem to have a base materials price that is about equal to the cost of getting a brickie plus bricks, so there is no effective saving - often, because of other factors (like fastener problems with hebel, or special rendering for styrene panels) the DIY stuff will work out more expensive even with free labour. 
I'd be happy to live in essentially an air-conditioned esky - windows let in too much heat, light and glare and it's not like sububan neighbourhoods have views you really want to linger over, anyway (unless you really, really like Ms Johnston's washing line) - a few big LCD screens would be more interesting! 
As for ...interesting places... how about castellations on a garage?  calwell - Google Maps 
In my 'this is how I'd force people to build 'em' list are things like shower and toilet areas really being wet areas - with a nice floor drain and the ability to simply pressure wash the whole thing (you'd need a watertight vanity unit, as well).  Shower heads would all have a minimum height - say 2100mm so I wouldn't scalp myself on them; all bench surfaces (including vanities) would be over 1000mm high; kitchens would have to have mandatory wall cupboards, and all houses would have 2.5 car garages minimum (so as to provide workshop space).  All would-be house owners would have to pass TAFE conducted training on household painting, plumbing, electrical and woodworking skills before being allowed to either own a place, or to be allowed to rent continuously in one location for more than two years.  Mmmmm...must be the fascist in me!

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## denaria

lololol @ Mrs Johnstons unmentionables. 
Great having you reply with criticisms and wish lists, that's really what I hoped for. *faints* at castellations, I'd adore a castle but it was not to be.
"nice floor drain and the ability to simply pressure wash the whole thing (you'd need a watertight vanity unit, as well." Sure you're not nostalgic for old style hotels where the spew gets hosed at 6 o'clock closing time, grins?
I think the ideal height for counter/benchtops is for the one who works at them to have their arms down straight, then bend up their hands flat, then measure there, a rule of thumb, sorry for the pun, I'd read somewhere.  You must be awfully tall.
With a 14x20m shed I don't need more than one car space but I realise most people live in town. I do think no amount of TAFE courses will make a difference to some people and as I recall some guy who had done chainsawing all his life was forced to take a TAFE course in it, stood where he was told and ahem got killed. And is it TAFE that teaches SES courses that three people are needed using ladders, one to mount, one to hold and one to count out loud..ah one and a two and a three..lol.
Unfortunately I have no idea what hebel, styrene etc are, happily living with rendered tiled breezeblock.
We would like a miniature train around the five acres, a miniature golf course, the engineering of both would be fun, and a trailer steamboat for the river. lol we should live so long.

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## ringtail

Expanding on the fascist wish list - I would ban bricks, brick veneer and roof tiles. Slab on ground construction would also get the flick. Bricks for been a ridiculous product, brick veneer for been a ridiculous concept and slab on ground for been the root of all evil. Core filled blockwork is spared but must only be used to hang hefty work benches from and provide a solid leaning point for deep thought. 
Agree with all of MS's North Korea's guidelines except the A/C esky. MS's new name is twilight - yes the vampire movies :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Tongue:

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## denaria

Oi, what about us oldies re slab on ground, what's your alternative? I am so not climbing stairs ever again.

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## Master Splinter

Nooooooooooo....not faggy vampire movies, nooooooooooo........ 
.....and I'm not old enough to remember the 6 o'clock swill...the idea actually came from a house described to me by a real estate agent, which was built by a single mother - cement slab floor (no floor coverings, and this was back in the days before polished and sealed concrete was trendy), solid brick with tiles as skirting and a floor drain in each room, so they could be washed out.  This woman always referred to her offspring in third person - as 'the child' - never by name or other term of endearment, and (to facilitate floor washing) the child's bed was more like a shelf with a mattress on it (complete with chain hangers to support the bed-shelf). 
I like the idea of banning bricks on the outside (on the inside, with decent orientation to catch warmth from the winter sun and soak up summer nights coolth they would be ok).  (One day I'd like to do a study to see if it would be more environmentally efficient to re-locate Canberra to somewhere with a milder climate instead of a place with 40 degree swings between summer and winter....it'd certainly make more environmental sense than banning plastic shopping bags!!!) 
The only thing I like about roof tiles is that they are easy enough to kick back so you can throw T&E across the roofspace to add an extra powerpoint or CAT5 run if needed.  Personally I'd like a thermal break between the roof and the indoors - a roof more like a shade structure than part of the building.

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## ringtail

Ok, ok, maybe a tad unfair with the twilight. How about a cool vamp like dracula ?  :Tongue:  
Relocate Canberra ? easier to just relocate yourself, I did ( parents did for me to be precise) and I dont miss Canberra one little bit ( maybe the brindabellas). Leave the pollies there though, they deserve it - although they do spend their time there in a climate controlled esky - say no more, no grasp on reality. 
The only thing I like about tiled roofs is they tend to have a steep pitch which is cool for moving around the roof cavity (on a stick built roof) to stick beams in etc... everything else about them sucks balls.  
Denaria - ramp / escalator / helper monkey / springboard / hydraulic (water) elevating platform. Just because we fell out of the trees doesnt mean we should live on the ground  :Biggrin:

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## PeteV

hey hey hey!!!! what's this about banning bricks? what are us brickies supposed to do? besides, i still don't believe there is a zero maintenance product like bricks on the market that provide the same thermal characteristics.... correct me if i'm wrong!

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## shauck

One of my pet hates in many houses I've lived in over the years is no cross ventilation. After a hot summer day it cools down at night but the breeze is very light and the house is hotter inside than outside. You nearly want to cry in frustration because you can't get that breeze in through your bedroom window.  
In this house we have window/double door opposite each other from one room to the other with door way between. Both bedrooms set up this way. House cools down nicely.  
I'd love a mini rail system or a flying fox with large suspended platform that can take a load of building materials. Got a steep block. I also wondered about using the storm water run off (goes straight down the block) to power a light or something unnecessary, down at the bottom of the property. Some sort of dynamo set up. 
Building styles. I like modern, skillion roof, huge windows, big verandahs and awnings and roof overhang. Having said that, I recently built a place with 45 deg pitch roof and mezzanine most of upper space. I reckon it's great value for money re cost of building for usable space. So long as you insulate really well, esp roof and cross ventilation, etc. I'm thinking of building myself one instead of the other style. We'll see.

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## ringtail

> hey hey hey!!!! what's this about banning bricks? what are us brickies supposed to do? besides, i still don't believe there is a zero maintenance product like bricks on the market that provide the same thermal characteristics.... correct me if i'm wrong!

  
They may be a relevant product with thermal mass down south for a few months of the year but up north or down south in summer they are just so wrong. You dont want thermal mass. You want the lightest, most responsive cladding you can get in Australia. One that changes temperature very quickly. I cant think of a more labour intensive way to build a house either and the success of the final product is determined solely by the foundations ( like everything) which gets back to the slab on ground thing. Get a bit of movement and its crack city with the bricks which I'm sure you have seen a lot. Apart from all that, I just hate them.

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## PeteV

i'll pay the labour intensive comment. i agree about the slab on the ground thing too. when i built my place, i had strips and sleeper walls throughout. plenty of expansion joints and touch wood, no cracks yet!

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## denaria

Good. Opinions rather than slagging off people. One problem is the Australian climate, I suspect no type of house suits both winter and summer in this country. I will admit to a wood deck off this room, CCA.
I notice few build with skillion roofs yet after some years the plantings obscure most features of a house and I've seen bay windows disappear into the shrubbery though they're probably attractive inside.
The move to grid tie or stand alone solar power or even  hot water means tile roofs get more walked upon and not always with care. I did find self sticking asphalt shingles very common in California and less fire prone than wood shakes, but of course metal is even less of a problem though noisy.
lol ringtail, not all of us have ringtails for elevations.
shauck, you can utilise that wasted water, if only for pumping, jackpumps used to be common in the past in Australia, operated on one gallon pumped for nine gallons loss, depending on lift required. You can also use that water flow to trickle charge batteries, my neighbour does. I'd like to ask, though, how does one insulate 'huge windows'?
Anymore wish lists? Legal or otherwise (within the category of building/renovating, that is).

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## Belair_Boy

> One problem is the Australian climate, I suspect no type of house suits both winter and summer in this country. .

  I think this is a very valid point and also no one type of house (or building method) suits all locations in Australia, what is good in Darwin is not good for Hobart. 
Thermal mass is not a bad thing in itself, it is only a problem if it is not at the temperature you require.
I have always liked rammed earth as a building product, low embodied energy and good thermal mass.  Not so good as an external wall as it is not a good insulator but the time delay in heat transfer can be used to advantage.  I much prefer the idea of a rammed earth internal wall as a thermal mass temperature regulator with high R value external walls. 
Brick vernier has also appeared to be backwards as far as I am concerned, much better to have the thermal mass on the inside and the insulation on the  outside.   

> We would like a miniature train around the five acres.

  Sounds right up my ally, I just wish I had a flatter block so the 5" gauge railway was more of a practical option.  I will have to settle for a rack and pinon inclined railway or a shay style logging loco if I want to run on my block.   

> you can utilise that wasted water, if only for pumping, jackpumps used to be common in the past in Australia, operated on one gallon pumped for nine gallons loss, depending on lift required. .

  I have always wanted to build one of these and maybe one day will put one in my winter creek to save a bit more of the water that would be lost.
I know them as a hydraulic ram pump and have seen them built out of standard off the shelf plumbing components. 
Another idea that is not utilized is using a backyard swimming pool as a heatsink for the output of an air conditioning system.  On a hot day the AC external unit is trying to heat up the already hot air where as it could be transferred to the cool pool water.  The AC unit would run much more efficiently and the pool would be heated at the same time.  The energy storage capacity of a swimming pool would be enormous.

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## denaria

Belair Boy..I think the answer to the alternating climates is a house on a turntable, lol the one the train runs on, just shunt it aside as needed. Oh wait did you say 5 inches or 5 feet gauge? Still, at your incline you could run a funicular, hahahha, just had an idea, classic funiculars have two cars, counterbalanced, sooooo simple, winter house at the bottom and summer house at top and vice versa, as the world turns so the saying goes. 
Gawd I wish I had the money for all my crazy ideas. One of which is def NOT rammed earth, imagine the termites, and the slump in high humidity. While most suited to desert climates I doubt they'd do well in many parts of Australia cept the Nullabor.
You're right, hydraulic rams.
And you're right again, wherever we see wasted calories it's tempting to think of where they could be utilised. Some rig passing over/through the A/C exhaust sounds doable, of course brings the question, should we be using A/C's?
 I tried a series of hoses on the flat concrete roof to heat the pool but the flowrate was too great for the small number of tubes, they do sell roof mounted pool heaters but I'm too stingy. And now, I don't have a pool and never want to have to look after one again.

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## ringtail

"How does one insulate huge windows" 
Easy, put on a frikken jumper. I'm so sick of the insulation/esky thing. Everyone wants to wear shorts and t shirts all year round ( do - able from Coastal Brisbane north most of the time) but people have lost the common sense factor.  " I'm cold, what should I do ? I know, I'll turn the heater up and tripple super insulate that window". How about putting some clothes on. Honestly, Australia is not cold. The only capitals that can claim  "cold at times" status are Canberra and Hobart. A few mountainous regions of NSW, VIC, and TAS and the QLD's granite belt can also claim, the rest of us ( which is 90 % of us) should just man up and pull on the trackies

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## Master Splinter

I'm good with the cold - but once it hits over 25, I'm inside with the AC running.  Outdoors is overrated; too much glare makes it hard to see your computer screen! 
I'm not sure of using your pool as a thermal sink for the AC, but I have read about a guy who hooked one end of a water cooling rig for his PC to his pool.  Water Cooling Computers With A Swimming Pool

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## SlowMick

Slab on grade houses suck.  why would you bury all of the plumbing under 4 inches of concrete?  it's alos nice to have heating through the floor. 
Can someone please bring back eves?  actually i take that back.  can wrap around verandah's be made compulsory?  and maybe add a few doors inside the house to allow small bits of the house to be heated or cooled as required.  how bout some lawn all around the house to soak up the heat?  mandatory seperation of houses along the sides to give access to the back yard for machines in the future or maybe even put a trailer in the rear? 
i like bricks only for the fact i don't have to paint them.  don't care for them otherwise.  clothes lines should be mandatory - maybe even a drying room down south. 
love the idea that every house has a 2.5 car garage.  i'd settle for every house to have space for 2 cars off the street. the unit developments round here only ever allow for 1   :Cry: 
i'm a huge fan of cardigan and cold drink air conditioning - i grw up in  house with a combustion stove for cooking, heating and hot water.  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> Slab on grade houses suck.  why would you bury all of the plumbing under 4 inches of concrete?  it's alos nice to have heating through the floor. 
> Can someone please bring back eves?  actually i take that back.  can wrap around verandah's be made compulsory?  and maybe add a few doors inside the house to allow small bits of the house to be heated or cooled as required.  how bout some lawn all around the house to soak up the heat?  mandatory seperation of houses along the sides to give access to the back yard for machines in the future or maybe even put a trailer in the rear? 
> i like bricks only for the fact i don't have to paint them.  don't care for them otherwise.  clothes lines should be mandatory - maybe even a drying room down south. 
> love the idea that every house has a 2.5 car garage.  i'd settle for every house to have space for 2 cars off the street. the unit developments round here only ever allow for 1  
> i'm a huge fan of cardigan and cold drink air conditioning - i grw up in  house with a combustion stove for cooking, heating and hot water.

  Such common sense from a Vicco - you're not from QLD are you SM ? with all that talk of wrap around verandahs and cricket pitch lawns. While were at it, ban any block smaller than 1/4 acre

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## denaria

Strange is it not that such a large country should be moving to smaller and smaller lots, I found 800 square meters too confining, and in the summer with all windows open I'd rather not hear the neighbours at their most intimate moments. Some of the aggravations stem from overpopulation.
Slow Mick. I wouldn't dream of utilities buried in the slab on ground either, or travelling in the walls. Is it mandated? The price of power might make underfloor heating too expensive to use in the future.
Master Splinter. I downloaded those links you have to show my partner when he gets back from California how sensible the kiwis are. He does say bureaucracy is creeping in there too, sadly. Common sense never was very common...

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## Black Cat

Not that strange. If we keep on increasing the size of the population, we do need to reduce the space they occupy if we want to keep enough land to grow food on. It also reduces the costs associated with delivery of infrastructure. 
I do find the absence of eaves astonishing in this climate. I added a further 300 mm to the eaves at the front of the extension and voila - summer sun gone by noon and winter sun lavishly landing on the slab to warm the place up. 
I rather think that some sort of energy generating system, water collection system and grey-water recycling system should be compulsory - whether on a house-by-house basis or at a 'village' level. Along with land set aside for community gardening activities which are rather more efficient uses of land than individual plots.

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## shauck

The last house I lived in was a brick veneer up on wombat hill in Daylesford. This is this highest point in town and coolest so more frost days, etc in the colder months. I found that even on a warm day, the house was still pretty cool inside when I would have preferred to feel the natural warmth. When it was hot for many days in a row, and then finally cooled down at night, the house was too slow to cool down and this can be unbearable after 4 or 5 days in a row of near 40 deg days.  
Basically agreeing with ringtail. Not responsive enough, quickly enough.  
Also lived in a fibro house with no insulation and it was awful. Inside and outside temperatures were very similar. That joint was cheap rent. 
The house we bought is a weatherboard and has tin roof. When I ripped the guts out of it to renovate, I left the ceiling in place and added one below it (High enough ceilings to do this). Fully insulated. It's cool enough on hot days, thanks to the insulation and will cool down at night, esp with cross ventilation. The only time you can't get any great relief is on those rare occasions when it doesn't cool down at night enough and there's no breeze at all.  
In the winter, it's warm enough with the smallest Rinnai gas heater (house is only 45sqm). I also sit with a blanket and dress warmer if I feel the need. All in all, it seems the best considering the climate is mostly on the cool side here.  
I love big windows because I like the outside surroundings and want to see them when inside. Verandahs, awnings, planting european trees strategically to block summer sun (loosing the leaves in winter to allow the winter sun). If it gets too cold, close the curtains. It's a compromise thing for me. The view is worth it.

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## Black Cat

> "How does one insulate huge windows" 
> Easy, put on a frikken jumper. I'm so sick of the insulation/esky thing. Everyone wants to wear shorts and t shirts all year round ( do - able from Coastal Brisbane north most of the time) but people have lost the common sense factor.  " I'm cold, what should I do ? I know, I'll turn the heater up and tripple super insulate that window". How about putting some clothes on. Honestly, Australia is not cold. The only capitals that can claim  "cold at times" status are Canberra and Hobart. A few mountainous regions of NSW, VIC, and TAS and the QLD's granite belt can also claim, the rest of us ( which is 90 % of us) should just man up and pull on the trackies

  This is so true. Also, if we keep active we are less prone to feeling the cold. Our generation has become far too soft as we spend inordinate amounts of time sitting down. The very idea of a comfortable seat is a relatively new invention because until recently we have all be far too busy doing the things necessary to stay alive and functional. Walking is a thing of the past - and the very recent past to boot. I am reading minute books from the 1970s where walking from one end of the village to the other, or to outlying farms was a commonplace. Now we can't go a few hundred yards without a car. Why? Because a) we are too lazy and b) we have convinced ourselves we don't have time for that. Makes you wonder what we do with all that time really - the less I have to do, the less time I seem to have to do it in.

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## shauck

I definitely feel the cold in winter less these days and I put it down to working outside in the winter over the past few years. You start off wrapped up in beanie, scarf and layers and end up taking most of that off. When you go inside at night, you feel pretty good.  
A perfect example of ultimate laziness - searching for a car park and going out of your way to find one closest to the entrance to the shop when there's a whole pile of spaces a bit further away and easier to maneuver into.

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## denaria

I wonder if a pass-through from garage to kitchen is permissible in an all concrete single dwelling. A space around 2 foot by 4 foot to pass groceries through to save lugging. It's something I noticed elsewhere but perhaps it violates the fire separation code.
Coldest it gets here in the depths of winter is probably 10C momentarily around 5am, then fast back up to a comfortable 18C which I can live with. If people up here have to pull out stored warm clothes we're all walking around in clouds of musty fumes.

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## Master Splinter

> .... how sensible the kiwis are.

  They moved from a regime like ours to their current one in the late 90's. It was only recently (mid 2000's I think) that Great Britain actually introduced an electrical code that work actually has to comply with (before then it was all just best practice).

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## SlowMick

seems i got a bit ranty last night with a few adult drinks under my belt.  Victorian born and bred Master splinter - but grew up at the base of the Dandenongs so home has always been somewhere with lawns and trees and a view of the mountains. 
Black Cat, what are the unit developments like up your way?  Down here they are 2 or 3 storey rendered boxes with uncovered balconies and no eves (not even a visable gutter). they build them as close to the boundary as legaly allowed.  minimum set back from the street.  i understand we need to squash more people in small spaces but surely a bit more passive efforts for thermal comfort wouldn't hurt.  something sticking out to give them some chance to climb down from the top level in case of fire would be nice. 
come to think about it - when did paling fences become so common?  I didn' live in a house with paling divisional fences till i bought one - just used to be star pickets, three wires and chicken wire on the bottom half?  eveyone seemed to be able to keep the dog in and it didn't feel like you were boxed in. 
The ranting continues... :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Ooooo, forgot about that one. Ban all timber paling fences. They stop the breeze, light and view and give crooks something to hide behind and kids something to graffiti

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## shauck

We took down the front fence when we excavated for the driveway. Was originally going to put a new one back up but really like it without. The dog is pretty good and stays in the yard. All the back is fenced but with country style post and wire fencing. Get a great view all the way back to the gully behind our place. SM, I grew up at base of Dandenongs too. Lovely area.

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## Black Cat

Slowmick, it is 'down' my way these days, but when last in Queensland yes, the unit developments were astonishingly lacking in response to the environment - blank walls or stacks of exposed concrete balconies to minimise available shade. Fully airconditioned. Of course! You would otherwise bake slowly inside until you lost consciousness. 
And Ringtail - I love paling fences. Mine prevents me having to look at the psychotic one next door and protects me from her meaningless harassment.

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## shauck

> And Ringtail - I love paling fences. Mine prevents me having to look at the psychotic one next door and protects me from her meaningless harassment.

   :Roflmao:

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## ringtail

> Slowmick, it is 'down' my way these days, but when last in Queensland yes, the unit developments were astonishingly lacking in response to the environment - blank walls or stacks of exposed concrete balconies to minimise available shade. Fully airconditioned. Of course! You would otherwise bake slowly inside until you lost consciousness. 
> And Ringtail - I love paling fences. Mine prevents me having to look at the psychotic one next door and protects me from her meaningless harassment.

  Until it rots - what then ? If you had  old school chain wire fence you could grow somwthing on it as a screen until she dies

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## Belair_Boy

> Gawd I wish I had the money for all my crazy ideas. One of which is def NOT rammed earth, imagine the termites, and the slump in high humidity. While most suited to desert climates I doubt they'd do well in many parts of Australia cept the Nullabor.

  I was talking about modern pneumatically rammed, cement stabilised rammed earth, not mud brick.  :Smilie: 
There are many rammed earth houses here in Adelaide and I am sure it could be used successfully in all parts of Australia.
I doubt any termite would be able to tunnel through a rammed earth wall. :Biggrin:

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## denaria

Mine's pretty delapidated, what's fallen down has been removed and not replaced. But then it was star pickets and wire. I know where the boundary is, sorta, kinda, not like it matters. And now the wallabies, cassowaries and other wildlife can wander through, I never really liked blocking the free passage of the animals specially when they polish off my dinner mistakes and they have to really be mistakes if the dog and cat won't eat them
. lol Strangely despite complaints from lots around here about the destruction by wild pigs, I'm not on their bus route, maybe because I deliberately didn't buy on the creek. Creek easements are a hassle but some appear to like the idea. Which reminds me, am doubly glad now as you might guess, the govt has brought in a rule that all dips in the ground that run with water for any part of the year have to be registered and cared for - sheesh, in the wet EVERYWHERE sheets with water.

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## SlowMick

when i moved into my place the neightbours asked if i would redo the fences.  by the time i pulled down all the honey suckle, jasmin, blackberries and ivy it became obvious that the fences had rotted away years earlier leavin only some of the posts. 
I got about 8 feet of backyard back when i cleaned up around the back fence. Also got old bed frames, oil drums, broken bricks assorted rubbish and a few dead birds.  :2thumbsup:

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## Black Cat

That happened to me Slowmick, when I cleared up the yard in Brisbane - amazing the stuff some people keep ...

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## denaria

I am so not letting on why we had to move from 800square meters to five acres except to say there were multiple trips by a hi-ab truck.

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## cherub65

Brick veneer is a very efficient method of building, the problem is most people do it backwards.
Reverse brick veneer construction is at least equivalent to double brick construction. 
And on the weird side I'm currently designing a house for a friend from 3600mm x 3600mm concrete drain culverts, for a holiday house in the country. Will be partly buried in the hill side and self sufficient

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## ringtail

> Brick veneer is a very efficient method of building, the problem is most people do it backwards.
> Reverse brick veneer construction is at least equivalent to double brick construction. 
> And on the weird side I'm currently designing a house for a friend from 3600mm x 3600mm concrete drain culverts, for a holiday house in the country. Will be partly buried in the hill side and self sufficient

  So you lay a slab, then build a brick house on the slab, then build a timber house around the brick house, then clad the timber house with something. And if you dont like the look of bricks on the inside you then have to either render or gyprock over the brick. Nah, sorry, it may have good thermal properties but thats not efficient building. The drain culverts sound interesting.

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## shauck

I read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that if you do a double layer of tin cladding with air gap between and not seal the top and bottom edge of the outer skin, the hot air goes out the top and cool air comes in the bottom. Bit of extra framing but sounds interesting. I also wonder, if you built a huge verandah that the whole house sits under, if that would keep it significantly cooler in summer. Would probably only work, aesthetically speaking, with skillion design, if anything.

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## ringtail

> I read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that if you do a double layer of tin cladding with air gap between and not seal the top and bottom edge of the outer skin, the hot air goes out the top and cool air comes in the bottom. Bit of extra framing but sounds interesting. I also wonder, if you built a huge verandah that the whole house sits under, if that would keep it significantly cooler in summer. Would probably only work, aesthetically speaking, with skillion design, if anything.

  Thats what Ive done, sort of. Asbestos cladding gone, sarking and insulation as necessary then horizontal battens across the frame. Then tin laid vertically with the 35 mm air gap created by the battens. Eaves lining gone and staying gone so the roof cavity vents better with the whirly birds. Works well.

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## shauck

Cool (pardon the pun).

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## ringtail

Got a bit of possum blocking to do though around the top plate. Leaving enough gap for air circulation yet not enough for the possums to get through. Quite challenging. I had a six month battle with one stubborn brushtail. I kept making the gap smaller and smaller. I thought 50 mm would surely do it. Nope. 35 mm in the end.

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## SlowMick

my sister brought back photos from her trip to Italy.  a lot of the building have flat roofs with a canvas awning over the top to provide an outdoor room.  the awning stops the sun hitting the concrete roof and heatign it up and the wing blow through to keep the peoples comforatble.  you also get 360 degree views.    apparantly often the evening meal is taken up there.  i like the idea of that.

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## denaria

Yes!, And if she'd visited Mexico or the SouthWestern USA she'd have seen the same thing. That's what I fell in love with. Plus the crazy kitchens, a riot of coloured tiles and solid surfaces. Oh well, here goes, this lot belong in concreting, kitchens, tilings and heaven knows what but probably all qualify as weird and since I titled this thread... grins..

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