# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  What help can tradies give in on line forums

## ringtail

Might be waiting a while Bros.  
Technically DIY extends to changing a tap washer or replacing a spindle, dunny cistern internals, flush pipe rubber. Maybe replacing a flex hose. Storm water is DIY in Qld. Rainwater is DIY in Qld in non house integrated applications. All other work requires a plumber. However, it's plumbing. As long as you accept responsibility for whatever you do I have no issue with peeps having a crack.  I'm not even sure if there is any statutory warranty on plumbing work. Maybe 3 months. If that's the case then the job only has to last that long anyway regardless of who does it. The hoards of people buying plumbing stuff (and electrical, timber, tiles etc...) from Bumrings tells the story. As with every other trade, people will DIY regardless of the law so my attitude is to at least try to help. They will do it anyway with or without instruction and people have to stop being so precious about it. It's not like DIYers are going to put you out of business. Electrical is the only trade that should be off limits as far as I'm concerned. I've given up caring about DIY carpentry. Sure, there are some nightmares out there they may kill someone one day but I just don't care anymore. Wasting energy on this stuff is stupid. Helping people to get a decent result is far more rewarding.

----------


## cyclic

> Thanks for that and I believe that the problems I have is judging when enough it enough hence the addition of a very small amount of hemp which swells in the very tiny leak paths. I seem to have the thread tape getting pushed out the back of the fitting when screwing it on. Do you put any stretch on the tape so it fills the thread? I was surprised when about 15 yrs ago I saw a lot of fire plumbing installed and they told me only hemp is allowed in fire systems. As I said in one of my posts I have mate who is a plumber and he uses hemp and teflon tape.   
> For the benefit of other readers could you define Sanitary Plumbing eg is changing a tap or HW system or toilet cistern or as the poster has done fit a combination come under that term?   
> Waiting for Plums method of using thread tape.

  Tape pushing out-Possibly too much or wrong tape.
Stretch the tape-Yep but again from experience as to how much stretch.
Fire systems always been hemp.
Thread tape is convenient, hemp usually takes a bit longer. 
Sanitary Plumbing in accordance with QBCC when I last spoke(argued) with them.
Anyone can replace a tap washer, toilet washer, and that is about it. 
Give QBCC a call for more info.
Hot water system -no, toilet cistern-no, pipework-no, also any replacement of water heater as well as bathroom renovation requires the fitting of a tempering valve, or testing of one currently installed) which most, if not all DIYers, do not do. 
What VVV has done is totally against all good plumbing principals, and I, like Plum, get @@@@ off when we see people buying homes where substandard work has been carried out because the costs to make it good can sometimes break people.

----------


## ringtail

> What VVV has done is totally against all good plumbing principals, and I, like Plum, get @@@@ off when we see people buying homes where substandard work has been carried out because the costs to make it good can sometimes break people.

  Yes but that issue is hardly confined to plumbing. Most DIY stuff is carpentry based and is a far greater concern. The costs to make good plumbing are the primary reason why people DIY in the first place. The cost of plumbers and indeed all trades is prohibitive for those on non existent budgets. Don't think for one minute that bad work is the sole domain of the DIYer either.

----------


## Bros

> Yes but that issue is hardly confined to plumbing. Most DIY stuff is carpentry based and is a far greater concern. The costs to make good plumbing are the primary reason why people DIY in the first place. The cost of plumbers and indeed all trades is prohibitive for those on non existent budgets. Don't think for one minute that bad work is the sole domain of the DIYer either.

  The people who run Bunnings are not stupid and know a product that will sell. There are heaps of plumbing and sewer fittings in Bunnings for anyone to buy as with electrical but I don't quite see as many people in that section compared to plumbing. The chances of someone being caught for DIY plumbing (Not Drainage) and electrical would be close to zero. 
Funny the only DIY stuff Bunnings don't sell is gas as they must see there is a limited market so they don't stock any. 
I also believe that shoppers believe that if Bunnings sell it is is then OK to install it. Bunnings has a sign reminding that electrical fittings must be installed by an electrician but nothing in the plumbing section.

----------


## Marc

> I've been following this thread with interest. It is fascinating to see a thread about a simple question result in so many posts. 
> It is also interesting to see the somewhat combative tone emerge in this type of thread.  It makes me wonder if someone would post a 'how to' thread on make joints showing how it should be done. 
> It would be good to get a more positive, and educational, tone to the forum rather than the "that's wrong" type of responses.   
> If something posted is wrong, by all means point it out, but be prepared to say why it is wrong *and* point out how it should be done.

  Well for once I agree with Chrisp 100%, however this is not new. Plumbing and Electrical forums are a bit of a joke most of the time. Not always though, some do contribute useful information. 
A pity really, and not necessarily a reflection on plumbers or electricians. I happen to have two relatives one in each trade and none of them have nowhere near any of the attitudes you see here sometimes. Very helpful and forthcoming with any information I need and full explanations always at hand.  
Oh well! ... no one is perfect. I hope triple V can figure out what he needs. 
I for once asked about the Loctite string as a substitute for Teflon tape and got nothing.  A comment would have been nice ... the few plumbers I spoke to all use it and say it behaves better than teflon tape. 
I have a plumbing job coming up. Replacing the main pump's pressure tank, replace a plastic 2" valve for a brass one at the base of a 40,000 litre tank that needs to be done live since the tank is full, and a few bits of 3/4 copper tubing replacing dodgy hoses in the pump room. Hopefully remember to take some pictures just to annoy the plumbers.  :Smilie:

----------


## ringtail

> The people who run Bunnings are not stupid and know a product that will sell. There are heaps of plumbing and sewer fittings in Bunnings for anyone to buy as with electrical but I don't quite see as many people in that section compared to plumbing. The chances of someone being caught for DIY plumbing (Not Drainage) and electrical would be close to zero. 
> Funny the only DIY stuff Bunnings don't sell is gas as they must see there is a limited market so they don't stock any. 
> I also believe that shoppers believe that if Bunnings sell it is is then OK to install it. Bunnings has a sign reminding that electrical fittings must be installed by an electrician but nothing in the plumbing section.

  I hardly ever see people in the electric section other than looking at light fittings. I was getting some 12v stuff the other day and there were a couple of little Asian fellas there pulling twin & earth off the spool and no one in sight. But heaps in the plumbing section always. All sorts and ages. Some stand there for hours as if mesmerised by all the fittings  :Biggrin:

----------


## Bros

> A pity really, and not necessarily a reflection on plumbers or electricians. I happen to have two relatives one in each trade and none of them have nowhere near any of the attitudes you see here sometimes. Very helpful and forthcoming with any information I need and full explanations always at hand.

  There is one very big difference in that you know them and they know you and you can talk face to face and it can be quickly established weather you are capable of doing the job.
Rules and regulations are made for the lowest common denominator.
My attitude still stands as per this post http://www.renovateforum.com/f195/all-posters-108952/.

----------


## Bros

> Some stand there for hours as if mesmerised by all the fittings

  I wish you would stop looking over my shoulder.

----------


## commodorenut

> .....Some stand there for hours as if mesmerised by all the fittings

  But they're shiny...... :Smilie:  
Seriously though, that's me in the irrigation section, as you can guarantee that whatever you need to complete the job will be nil-stock, so you have to put 25 other items back, and try again with a different approach, only to have the same issue.  One time, I was almost reduced to checking every single box, knowing the number of tossers who throw things back in the wrong spot.... and I've had some success! 
My HWS was replaced a couple of years back.  I was up-sizing, and told the HW people on the phone that the outlet pipe would need to be extended a bit higher to suit, and I was happy to pay extra for this to be done.  Upon delivery "oh, we'll still install it for $50, but if you need pipes moved we can't help."  WTF? You guys purport to be plumbers but you can't move pipes?  I think the company has 1 licenced plumber who answered the phone & said yes, and a whole lot of delivery monkeys in the field....
So I called out my regular plumber, and being an older place, it didn't have a TV.  He mentioned he can fit it up while doing the pipe work, but I told him I didn't really want the tempering valve, as it's hard enough to get hot water all the way across the house in the kitchen sink, and every place I've been in with one doesn't get hot enough for proper washing up.
No argument from him about it, nothing - he simply left it out and extended the outlet pipe up higher to suit the new tank, and was done in 10 minutes.   
I can understand if the TV was able to be located to only feed the bathrooms, as the safety factor of a child not being able to adjust the bath or shower taps hot enough to scald is a good thing, but when you have to boil the kettle to add to the sink when you want to clean a baking dish, it gets old really quick.  New installs can factor this in, but in older houses it's almost impossible without a lot of time & expense.

----------


## Godzilla73

https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-rang...-pipe-fittings 
Plenty of gas fittings in Vic at the local Green Shed.

----------


## Bros

> https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-rang...-pipe-fittings 
> Plenty of gas fittings in Vic at the local Green Shed.

  There went a good post as they are not available where I live and I suppose their is a market for it in Victoria with a lot of space heating being used. I was more thinking of flared gas fittings used with copper pipe but I suppose that has gone the way hemp went.

----------


## ringtail

> I wish you would stop looking over my shoulder.

  Bwahaha. Yep, they stand there screwing things together, unscrewing things, putting them back, picking them up again, scratch their head, stare at the ceiling, pick up a different fitting and start again. Occasionally one will have a mudmap. Funny watching a plumber try and get to the fittings through the masses

----------


## ringtail

> But they're shiny...... 
> So I called out my regular plumber, and being an older place, it didn't have a TV.  He mentioned he can fit it up while doing the pipe work, but I told him I didn't really want the tempering valve, as it's hard enough to get hot water all the way across the house in the kitchen sink, and every place I've been in with one doesn't get hot enough for proper washing up.
> No argument from him about it, nothing - he simply left it out and extended the outlet pipe up higher to suit the new tank, and was done in 10 minutes.   
> I can understand if the TV was able to be located to only feed the bathrooms, as the safety factor of a child not being able to adjust the bath or shower taps hot enough to scald is a good thing, but when you have to boil the kettle to add to the sink when you want to clean a baking dish, it gets old really quick.  New installs can factor this in, but in older houses it's almost impossible without a lot of time & expense.

  My olds had their hottie replaced a few months back and after 30 + years of scalding water they were gutted at the performance of the new unit. Then I maxed out the shiny new TV and now they are happy. Barely 40 at the KS before and the shower was unusable as it's a decent length pipe run. Old mate licenced plumber didn't even measure the temp before putting his hand out and buggering off.

----------


## Marc

Tempering valve, aah the nanny state protecting the innocent ...  :Smilie:

----------


## phild01

Whatever happened to survival of the fittest.  What turn will evolution take with all the protective devices we put in place!

----------


## ringtail

The times they are a changin'. And not in a good way. One of the most pathetic ones is the window opening no greater than 125 mm. All these poor buggers with casements (or any window other than louvres) that have to have limiting straps put on or the window screwed shut.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

That's what happens when tradies get unionised and call themselves Master Builders or whatever organisation tradies want to belong to...tail wags dog. Dog bites tail. 
Ours is not to reason why. Merely to point and giggle.

----------


## VVV

> Well for once I agree with Chrisp 100%, however this is not new. Plumbing and Electrical forums are a bit of a joke most of the time. Not always though, some do contribute useful information. 
> A pity really, and not necessarily a reflection on plumbers or electricians. I happen to have two relatives one in each trade and none of them have nowhere near any of the attitudes you see here sometimes. Very helpful and forthcoming with any information I need and full explanations always at hand.  
> Oh well! ... no one is perfect. I hope triple V can figure out what he needs. 
> I for once asked about the Loctite string as a substitute for Teflon tape and got nothing.  A comment would have been nice ... the few plumbers I spoke to all use it and say it behaves better than teflon tape. 
> I have a plumbing job coming up. Replacing the main pump's pressure tank, replace a plastic 2" valve for a brass one at the base of a 40,000 litre tank that needs to be done live since the tank is full, and a few bits of 3/4 copper tubing replacing dodgy hoses in the pump room. Hopefully remember to take some pictures just to annoy the plumbers.

  I still haven't seen what was not right, Marc. 
Lots of [wrong] assumptions from *plum* and one good point from *cyclic*. Even the last bit (wrong fittings/solder) was confirmed using the coorect solder for the fittings...

----------


## Bros

Well boys I think it is time to close up for the night.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> .....stand there screwing things together, unscrewing things, putting them back, picking them up again, scratch their head, stare at the ceiling, pick up a different fitting and start again.....

  
Haha sounds like me in the plumbing or irrigation section. 
And I always seem to end up with 15 bits I don't need and have to go back and get another 4 bits I forgot.....
(Out of which I'll only use 2  :Sigh:  )

----------

