# Forum Home Renovation Paving  circular paving - tips / traps / possible?

## sprig

i'm looking at paving 2400 dia. flat area (a small gazebo) using std 230 x 115mm pavers; but want to do it with the pavers being laid with long edges going radially out from the centre.  clearly lots of cutting required to reduce width of joints etc.  can anyone offer experience / tips on an amateur making this work?  or would the cost of a pro paver be more than worth it?  
thanks alot 
PS: i've seen pre-cut paving for circles on www, but only in UK - anyone know of similar in Aust?

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## Bleedin Thumb

There are many tricks to radiating paving -too many to mention here. Heres a few though. 
make sure your screeding sand is compacted before you lay. 
Mark your center point with a rod hammered in and sturdy. When you have finished screeding scribe out from the center a circle 700mm diameter (just over 3 brick lengths). start paving back from that line  - you do the center last. You won't have to cut any of the pavers until you do your center circle. 
When you have all the pavers cut and in place thourouly soak the pavers. the trick is to not wash your bedding sand out but to make sure that the bricks are saturated. Them mix up a slurry mortar mix and broom it well into the joints.After it has hardened a bit but before it has gone off (IE the same day) get on your hands and knees and sponge of the excess mortar changing the water in your bucket frequently. Give it a slight acid wash the next day. 
Hope that helps.

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## sprig

thanks a lot.  
- is there a formula or something for cutting the middle pavers to correct size/angles  - or is this trial and error?    
- for this kind of cutting of clay pavers, would a bolster or paving splitter do the job or is there such thing as a brick blade for circular saw? 
- also, should the outside edge restraint be done before the mortar goes on?
thanks

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## Bleedin Thumb

It depends on what pattern you want - the lazy way is just to do stretcher bond in there . Last one I did - years ago, I think it was a half brick in the center with a full brick forming a cross from each edge with some wedge shapes inbetween, the next two rows out would also need cutting.  
If you went for that design you would need about a 815mm circle to start. If you want it to look good don't scrimp on the cutting and don't let any gaps get more than say 15mm.

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## Bleedin Thumb

By shear coincidence I stumbled upon these just now. I think this was done 20yrs or so ago so its a bit dated now....it was very popular in the early eighties though. :Biggrin:

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## sprig

photos just great - thanks heaps BT.
am aiming to do radiating very much like your pics, but i think getting the cutting angles good enough to not look bodgy (yours sure didnt) will be major challenge...  did you use brick-saw or bolster?
Progress: dug-out the area last weekend; road base&sand down this one coming.  the area is only 2400 dia. so is a plate compactor necessary or is there another option for small areas of clay paving?
thanks again

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## Bleedin Thumb

Thanks Sprig.
The bricks were either original sandstocks - I had a good source then or new PGH sandstocks. You have to use a saw - a bolster is a waste of time and bricks. 
Small area or large area your job is only as good as the prep. If your sub-grade is stable you could get away with a tamper on the sand. 
Another tip. before you do the grouting- use a string line from the centre rod to make sure that you bricks are pointing into the centre, they tend to want to wander a bit.
Also don't worry about the long joints lineing up or you will forever be cutting..IE they are always going to line up given the changing diameter of the circles :Biggrin thumb:

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## sprig

thanks BT.
regards your job: i think your description was that pavers were just placed on sand before mortaring ie no extra sand/wacking to hold in place?   Am asking becuase as the pavers will have many gaps... thought there may be problems in keeping them in place whist "brooming a slurry mortar mix into joints"(?) 
Also, would you reco mortaring the "outer circle" before cutting/paving/mortaring the inner circle? 
finally (4.2.day) ; given pavers/mortar are on a sand base, did your job have any with cracks?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

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## autogenous

Your basically doing multiple bullseye arches. 
For the ultimate job look up setting out bullseye arches and cutting voussiors 
brick amount = circumference / brickwidth ;
brick size top = brick amount + (roundup decimal place to integer); 
You will need a brick saw with a diamond blade

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## autogenous

OD Arch 2400MM 
Brick width 105mm 
22.857142857142857142857142857143 = 2400/105; 
104.34 =2400 / 23; 
Outside brick edge 104mm 
Make yourself a template on butchers paper or similar. 
Once you have done the template with all the arches make a ply voussior stencil for all the arches. 
Start cutting starting with the inside arch checking as you go to build it dry prior to laying. 
If you want a 10mm joint then you have to accommodate that into the Algorithm.

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## autogenous

Do a semi-eliptical arch template 
If you can divide one of them then you are truly Sensei Grandmaster poobar  :Smilie:

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## Bleedin Thumb

Sprig, as you cant wack them once they are layed -it is important that the bedding sand is wacked before you lay the bricks. It may be prudant to place ply over your work to stop movement but if you have the bricks touching each other they will be pretty stable. 
Do the slurry at the very end - not in two goes. I don't know about cracking it was so long ago it probably has but the cracks will be on the brick's edge so I doubt that you would see them much. Most of the strength inh segmented paving is the joins - not the bedding - in this case the joins are mortar. If you have saturated the bricks so they don't suck the water out of your mortar - it will be very strong 
FWIW ...All brick paving sinks after a while unless its done on a concrete base. But its only paving...just something you walk on...after a while it just gets covered in dirt, gets a bit bumpy - no big deal. :Cool:  
BTW anyone know what auto's on about? :Biggrin:

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## sprig

Thanks BT. 50mm of bedding sand (and packer) planned for the weekend.  i compacetd the sub-grade and road base by hand with 120mmdia tamper (~4hours ie mad); added 1.5 bags concrete to RBase so hopefully solid.. 
What's the recipe for "slurry mortar mix" and can i use left over bedding sand in it? 
Thanks Auto. Impressive calcs. Will definitely be doing the "dry build" you suggest.

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## 2x4

> 22.857142857142857142857142857143

  
Hooly Dooly 
That is 30 decimal places right there..........for bricks?

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## autogenous

_ That is 30 decimal places right there..........for bricks? _ I think I had too many beers. I'm sure if you round back to 2 decimal places it wont effect that part of the equation maybe unless the circumference is a kilometre  :Biggrin:  
Its only to establish that section then as you can see for the next part of the equation its rounded up to establish the bricks to an integer. 
If you round down to the integer you'll @@@@ it up  :Smilie:  You end up with a small piece irregular to the rest.

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## autogenous

_ PS: i've seen pre-cut paving for circles on www, but only in UK - anyone know of similar in Aust? _ Theyre precast concrete pavers. You may find these at a soil supply hardware etc though they are scarcer in Australia. In the UK that stuff is big.

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## sprig

well, tomorrow's the day. sand, pavers and slurry.
could someone help with the proportions i'll need for the "slurry mortar" i'll need for brooming into the paving joints (tomorrow afternoon!) ?
thanks heaps

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## autogenous

_could someone help with the proportions i'll need for the "slurry mortar" i'll need for brooming into the paving joints (tomorrow afternoon!) ?
thanks heaps _ If the joints are small you could look at Pavelok?  http://www.bluecirclesouthern.com.au...TheWay_pf.html

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## sprig

Attached are pics of final product, complete with gazebo thing which prompted the job... <O :Tongue: </O :Tongue:  My first paving job so am happy with result, despite joints not within cooee of being uniform. As BT said early on, lots of cutting was involved. <O :Tongue: </O :Tongue:  I used a variation of Andos calcs (not to 30 decimal places ..) to work out how much angle to trim off the sides of each paver  I cut all pavers for each circle in one hit, then dry built it. Same pattern as BT's pics. Because of the width of joints i used mortar. <O :Tongue: </O :Tongue:  Thanks to BT and Ando for their help. Now for the surrounding landscaping ..<O :Tongue: </O :Tongue:

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## autogenous

Luv ya work!, Luv ya work

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## Bleedin Thumb

Nice outcome Sprig. :2thumbsup:

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## Uncle Bob

That looks fan-bloody-tastic!

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