# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  What hobby do u have?)

## PhoenixSkyline



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## Bros

I'm exhausted. Perfectly straight back.

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## phild01

Hope you don't use what some of the Russian athletes were found to be using :Smilie:

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## OBBob

No issue moving packs of flooring about then!

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## toooldforthis

is that a gif? 
looping a single rep?  :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> is that a gif? 
> looping a single rep?

  But somehow you can't stop watching... when will something pop!?

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Hope you don't use what some of the Russian athletes were found to be using

  ))) I never used it. My results are not so big. If i used the steroids it would be much bigger)
And btw as a former coach i can assure you every sportsman of every kind of sports at the olimpic level uses the steroids. It is simple policy. It has nothing to do with the sports. So don't let yourselves be cheated on

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## PhoenixSkyline

> is that a gif? 
> looping a single rep?

   Thanks)) In fact it's a nice compliment)) 
But no. 180 kg. 9 reps. my bodyweight was about 85 kilos (187 lbs)
P.S. i used to be the champion of my oblast' (Oblast' is a part of the country. Like a state in Australia)

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## PhoenixSkyline

> I'm exhausted. Perfectly straight back.

   Thank you. Appreciate it.
Weight doesn't matter. What matters is the technique. If there is a good technique there will be a lot of weight

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## OBBob

It's good to have a hobby so you don't get bored, ram a tank into a shop and steal alcohol.  :Smilie:    Russian man rams stolen tank into shop, steals wine - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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## PhoenixSkyline

The australian news agencies have already announced the news but our agencies are quiet as hell. you know why? because the news is just embarrasing. The same sh...t happens when the west has an embarrasing news. when it happens we are the first to show. 
Some stupid idiot ram into the shop... The question is how one idiot managed to steal the tank? Will he be the only one to punish? it's a shame

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## craka

> The australian news agencies have already announced the news but our agencies are quiet as hell. you know why? because the news is just embarrasing. The same sh...t happens when the west has an embarrasing news. when it happens we are the first to show. 
> Some stupid idiot ram into the shop... The question is how one idiot managed to steal the tank? Will he be the only one to punish? it's a shame

  We have our share too.  Don't worry.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gzGZbCKhE4

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## PhoenixSkyline

Every nation has enough idiots. We all are similar at this point

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## mudbrick

You probably wouldn't know that local Aussie culture Russians are often considered somewhat crazy!
there is a name for them here, "a mad Russian"  :Wink: ) But you seem very normal and quite the opposite! Happy to have you on this forum.
My hobby is fishing, cars, and working on the house.

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## PhoenixSkyline

I'm just trying not to disturb people and let them live their lifes.
Cars! I love cars!

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## mudbrick

Do many Russians still drive Lada cars? That's the only Russian car I know...

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## PhoenixSkyline

Haha)) how do you know?

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## phild01

We rented a Lada 4WD once near Kunanurra.  Overheated and ended up walking back to where we rented it.

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## craka

> Do many Russians still drive Lada cars? That's the only Russian car I know...

  i only just saw one of these the other day, first in quite a few years that I've seen.

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## mudbrick

20 years ago there were quite a few of them in Australia. 
I haven't seen one for a few years though. These days most people drive the latest cheapest 
throw away cars that they see advertised on TV. 
You know, Hyundai Toyota Honda Mazda...

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## PhoenixSkyline

> We rented a Lada 4WD once near Kunanurra.  Overheated and ended up walking back to where we rented it.

  Surely Yours was a bad one. Lada 4x4 is one the most hardy and resistant car. Russians love this classic model. Today it looks almost the same as it did decades ago

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## r3nov8or

Hobby? Not yours! Although I do catch a lift occasionally

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Do many Russians still drive Lada cars? That's the only Russian car I know...

  Lada is still one of the most popular car in Russia. But i must say that the famous company conglomerate Renault-Nissan possesses Lada these days. So it's not exactly russian anymore))
And btw nowadays Lada models look like this))

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## phild01

> Surely Yours was a bad one. Lada 4x4 is one the most hardy and resistant car. Russians love this classic model. Today it looks almost the same as it did decades ago

  It was a 40C day but for the very short time it drove, it did feel comfortable.

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## PhoenixSkyline

It's a nice classic model. People in Russia still love it though it's probably 40 years old alredy.
The price for a new Lada 4x4 is about $10-11K in Russia. And it's called lada urban))

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## mudbrick

Well, they are looking better these days then, aside from that boxy white ugly one in the middle )

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## PhoenixSkyline

Oh. Almost forgot. There is another classic 4x4 model. Called "UAZ". This is a monster. The quality is not so good but it can drive almost everywhere on the planet)) Attachment 119463 Attachment 119464 Attachment 119465

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Well, they are looking better these days then, aside from that boxy white ugly one in the middle )

  You mean that one?  Attachment 119466

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## PhoenixSkyline

People in here like and value 4x4 model more  "People here"

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## PhoenixSkyline

But i must say that people prefer foreign cars more and more. Lada is not the leader in the market anymore)) Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mazda, Subaru, Lexus, Renault, Nissan, BMW, Audi etc.
Especially BMW. Here it gives us respect somehow.)) Escpecially if it's black)
In Russia most of the cars are either black or white))) Those are the most popular colors

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Hobby? Not yours! Although I do catch a lift occasionally

    So you do lift sometime. Nice
me and my wife at the gym

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## phild01

Your cars seem to cost about a third the price of a new 2 bedroom apartment!

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## PhoenixSkyline

Yup. Sometimes a car costs equally like an apartment

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## mudbrick

So either your cars are expensive or apartments are cheap?
Roughly how many years of the average adult salary would it take to buy a car and an apartment ?
in Australia I would guess about 5 to 10 years.  Here you could buy about 15 small cars for the price of an apartment!

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## phild01

> So either your cars are expensive or apartments are cheap?
> Roughly how many years of the average adult salary would it take to buy a car and an apartment ?
> in Australia I would guess about 5 to 10 years.  Here you could buy about 15 small cars for the price of an apartment!

  Sydney.... 50 new small cars! Ridiculous.

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## Marc

Offer and demand Phil.
The same politicians who talk about "Housing affordability" a concept that only makes sense in Cuba, are the same who turn a blind eye to Chinese buying up anything that is for sale and ignoring legislation that prevents them from doing so. We are at a point in Sydney where there is blatant discrimination against locals and in favor or Chinese who do not question hyper inflated prices and offer double commision to agents for their complicity. 
That is ridiculous, not the prices. The prices are a consequence of what our politicians do every day, that is treason. But no one cares.
Oh yes, the same morons are now talking up abolish negative gearing.

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## Marc

Sorry PS, my hobby besides disparaging politicians is blacksmithing and building, not necessarily in that order.
I wouldn't mind importing a Lada 4wd for that price. Fits neatly in a 20' container. Do you have export duties?
Do you know if they make them for right hand drive?

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## PhoenixSkyline

> So either your cars are expensive or apartments are cheap?
> Roughly how many years of the average adult salary would it take to buy a car and an apartment ?
> in Australia I would guess about 5 to 10 years.  Here you could buy about 15 small cars for the price of an apartment!

  You can't accumulate enough money to buy an apartment here. And few people can afford to accumulate money to buy a car. Commonly people go get a credit at a bank for that
And ofcourse not all of the cars are so cheap. I mentioned the cheapiest ones. For example a new toyota land cruiser 200 costs about $70K in Russia
And as for the houses they might be quite expensive (like this one - 530 000 $)

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## PhoenixSkyline

Or this two-storied apartment (the same price 30 million rubles / 530 000 $)  Attachment 119478 Attachment 119479 Attachment 119480 Attachment 119481 Attachment 119482 Attachment 119483 Attachment 119484 Attachment 119485

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## mudbrick

Yes it's the same here, almost nobody walks in and pays cash for their first house...they get a loan from the bank.
What I mean is, if average yearly pay for Russian people is $50,000 for example then the $530000 house equals about 11 years pay. That's roughly the same scale as many places in Australia. 
( and that Russian house is quite large and fancy but why so many curves? Do the curves cost extra??  :Rofl5:

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## phild01

Not sure about others but many of these images are not showing. PSkyline, what is the general file size of the images you attach? I suspect they are 1-5Mb.

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Do you have export duties?
> Do you know if they make them for right hand drive?

   don't know. But what i do know is that lada 4wd is the popular export car we have.
Do you drive right hand cars in Australia?

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Yes it's the same here, almost nobody walks in and pays cash for their first house...they get a loan from the bank.
> What I mean is, if average yearly pay for Russian people is $50,000 for example then the $530000 house equals about 11 years pay. That's roughly the same scale as many places in Australia. 
> ( and that Russian house is quite large and fancy but why so many curves? Do the curves cost extra??

  Are u kiddin'?6000-8000 $ a year.that's the average. Some rich people get 50-100k every year. Some get 3000 $ yearly. That's how the life works))

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Not sure about others but many of these images are not showing. PSkyline, what is the general file size of the images you attach? I suspect they are 1-5Mb.

  Don't know. I'll try to make it fit next time

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## PhoenixSkyline

Actually i guess that would be a good business to do exporting stuff from Russia to Australia considering the price difference. For example the stretched ceiling)))
How much should it cost to be preferable as the opposite of other types of ceiling?

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## PhoenixSkyline

For example it cost 60 dollars to stretch my room. the work plus the material

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## UseByDate

> Are u kiddin'?6000-8000 $ a year.that's the average. Some rich people get 50-100k every year. Some get 3000 $ yearly. That's how the life works))

  Full-time adult average annual total earnings is $83,000 (Australian dollars) = $65,000 (American dollars)  6302.0 - Average Weekly Earnings, Australia, May 2017

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## mudbrick

Many people like BMW here too, they think it gives them higher class or something. 
I just shake my head at them because every person I know with a BMW must visit the mechanic much more often each year than me due to break downs and pay a lot for repairs. I just drive an Australian/ American family car that's considered a cheap gas guzzler by those BMW drivers.
I see them walking to work without their car and ask them why, Oh it's at the shop HAHA, got a little problem  :Wink:

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## Marc

> don't know. But what i do know is that lada 4wd is the popular export car we have.
> Do you drive right hand cars in Australia?

   We drive on the right side of the car and therefore on the left side of the road like in the UK, Japan, India and a few other places. 
Converting basic model cars to right side drive is no big feat if you can get the parts for it. Otherwise you have to make them. There are a few places that convert american cars to RHD but they charge like a roaring bull. 
BMW are very good cars but like any other european car they require specialised service, something that is non existent in Australia where it is not uncommon to take a car for service at the dealer and get it back without even the oil changed and a bill for $800. Dealers are conman that hire cheap labor and charge high prices just because they can. if you have a BMW you need a honest mechanic to do the proper service and with todays electronics, just the equipment can be prohibitive for a corner shop.
Solution buy a throw away car and change it every second year, or drive a toyota or holden for 300,000 km and have an open wallet policy for service with genuine parts.

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## Bros

> Actually i guess that would be a good business to do exporting stuff from Russia to Australia considering the price difference.

  No Lada's or Belarus tractors please.

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## Marc

What's wrong with Belarus tractors?

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## Bros

> What's wrong with Belarus tractors?

  Proberbly nothing now as they are marketed under a different name but the early versions suffered from drive train problems one I remember is poor case hardening on the gears.

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## commodorenut

A relative worked for the local office of Belarus some years back now - in the thick of all the problems.  About 50% of their phone calls were from irate people wanting warranty claims sorted, as the local dealer had given up or refused to help.  He said it was mainly Eastern Europeans and tight-ass farmers who had bought them, and many of the claims coming in were an "itch or a ski" surname (in his words).  I guess some of them thought the link back to the mother land might have been a good thing, but it was far from it.... 
His boss came in one day asking for the claim file for a particular case - a friend of his - so it could be approved quickly.  Buried in phone calls & in-person requests from other staff, he was getting quite flustered, and the boss ripped into him for not jumping onto what he wanted done straight away, and continued to belittle him afterwards.  A short time later, he had to put one call through to his boss, who wasn't happy about it (he didn't want to have to deal with warrantied), and he asked who it was.  The reply became one of the annual christmas dinner tales, that gets rolled out every year, and was a "CLM" moment (career limiting move).  His response to his boss' question was "I don't f*(^(ng know, some Mr Alpha-bet-ski."   He resigned before he was fired, and reckoned the only good to come out of it, was that he appreciated subsequent jobs so much more.

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## UseByDate

> We drive on the right side of the car and therefore on the left side of the road like in the UK, Japan, India and a few other places.

  How do you define a few? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_left-hand_traffic 
What's good enough for the Romans is good enough for us. :Smilie:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdqXT9k-050

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## Bros

> A relative worked for the local office of Belarus some years back now - in the thick of all the problems.  About 50% of their phone calls were from irate people wanting warranty claims sorted, as the local dealer had given up or refused to help.  He said it was mainly Eastern Europeans and tight-ass farmers who had bought them, and many of the claims coming in were an "itch or a ski" surname (in his words).  I guess some of them thought the link back to the mother land might have been a good thing, but it was far from it....

   It shows the stupidity of a company trying to break into a new market with an inferior product. If the do fix the problems the name is tainted forever.  
Great Wall is another as they were forced to stop selling them now I see they are back on the market but their bad name lived on.

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## PhilT2

Years ago a friend had a Ural, a russian motorbike that looked like a copy of an early BMW. At the time they were cheap, less than half the price of the japanese bikes of similar size, but they never sold well. Seemed to be reliable, not quick though... 
Just googled them and they are still around...and still look the same as they did in the 70's.

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## PhoenixSkyline

))). I'm not an enemy to the australian people. Why would i want to sell lada there?))
Lada is a normal car considering its price. But there are a lot more better cars

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## PhoenixSkyline

Btw Belarus tractors are not a russian brand.
P. S. I was talking about exporting good technologies like the material for stretched ceilig for example. Not tractors))))

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## mudbrick

Did you say your ceiling was $60 ?
here the ceiling for 1 room would cost about $500 at a guess! There is more labour involved because the boards are heavy and must be glued and screwed and then the joints and cornice plastered as well.
But is stretched ceiling effective at keeping heat out? Here it can be 50C in the roof of a house.

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## PhoenixSkyline

There are a lot of places in Russia where the temperature in summer achieves over 40C. 
It is effective. Besides there are stretched ceilings made of cloth instead of PVC.

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## phild01

I think the point is, with a stretched ceiling, how is insulation from the roof space achieved!?

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## PhoenixSkyline

Aren't there a rough ceiling in the house?

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## phild01

So the stretched ceiling conceals a ceiling structure that can support the insulation!

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## PhoenixSkyline

Yup

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## mudbrick

So you actually have 2 ceilings? A rough ceiling and a stretched ceiling.
wouldnt that cost more than just 1 painted plasterboard ceiling?

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## Marc

> ..... I was talking about exporting good technologies like the material for stretched ceiling for example. Not tractors))))

  i don't understand this stretched ceiling business. a room has a fixed size ... if you stretch the ceiling it will be too big for the room ...  :Shock:

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## phild01

> i don't understand this stretched ceiling business. a room has a fixed size ... if you stretch the ceiling it will be too big for the room ...

  https://www.renovateforum.com/f208/t...tering-123480/
#19 on.

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## commodorenut

> ))). I'm not an enemy to the australian people. Why would i want to sell lada there?))

   This makes me laugh - you really do understand our humour well when you can come back with a clever statement like that. 
In the late 1980s we had the Lada Samara (hatch), and Lada Niva 4WD imported into Australia.  Under Australian design rules, the cars had to be complianced by a primary or secondary manufacturer.  There were numerous secondary manufacturers around (and there still are today), but one such outfit was HDT Special Vehicles.
It was headed up by the local motor racing legend, and 9 times Bathurst winner, Peter Brock.  He raced cars since the 1960s, but from 1980-1988 Brock built performance modified versions of the local Holden Commodore.  Most were a 5.0L V8, and in 8 years some 4200 odd cars were built & sold. 
In 1985, a new Brock VK Group A Commodore was worth $22K.  Now, due to the muscle car boom, you won't find a good one for less than $80K.  They were a desireable car back then (to criminals as well) and they are still desireable today to Aussie muscle car fans.  I have 2 of them - an '86 and an '87. 
Due to numerous reasons, a rift developed between Holden & Brock that finally climaxed in February 1987, and Holden cut all ties with Brock.  He struggled on until August '88 before selling the company. 
One of the things he did to keep going financially after Holden, was to utilise HDT's secondary manufacturer status, to compliance the Ladas for sale in Australia.
One of the more silly decisions, was to release a "performance" (I use the word loosely) version of the Lada Samara.
Here's some info:  1988 Lada Samara Sedan Brock Delux | Champions Brock Experience | THE OFFICIAL PETER BROCK 05 PERSONAL COLLECTION MUSEUM 
It wasn't his finest moment, but it paid the bills, and he managed to barely scrape enough money together to launch a 2-car assault on Bathurst in 1987.  The second car was actually cobbled together out of used parts, but went on to be declared the winner, and gave Brock his 9th (and final) Bathurst victory. 
And this sort of driving in 1987 (in the wet, on racing slicks) is what earnt Brock a legion of fans spanning multiple generations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRHAISpRoFg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwWNyQUQf18 
His 1979 qualifying lap in a Torana A9X:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anZlA3_EEuw
He went on to win the race by 6 laps. 
Bathurst is an annual endurance race that has a 50+ year history in Australia.  For the last 45 or so, they've run it for 1000km.  What you can't see on the video, os how much you literally climb up the side of a mountain, then across a relatively level "Skyline" at the plateau, before descending down a fairly step series of bends prior to getting onto the straight.  
When it's not race time, the track is a public road, with a 60km/h speed limit, and I've watched tourists brush a wall in a hire car because they couldn't handle some of the descent at just 60.  The race cars are doing it 2 to 2.5 times faster!  Modern race cars approach 300km/h down the straight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathurst_1000 
But despite dabbling with Ladas, Aussies forgave Brock for his indescretion, and despite numerous scandals & media stories about his private life, that fan base never wavered, even after he died behind the wheel in 2006. 
And getting back to hobbies, Brock road cars are one of my hobbies.  
I have one of these: Home of the HDT - VL SS Group A and a Calais Sport with a 5.6L V8.

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## PhoenixSkyline

> So you actually have 2 ceilings? A rough ceiling and a stretched ceiling.
> wouldnt that cost more than just 1 painted plasterboard ceiling?

  Well we've found the problem. In Russia we always have a rough ceiling(( And it doesn't matter if you will cover it with a stretched ceiling or with plaster boards or render it etc

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## PhoenixSkyline

> i don't understand this stretched ceiling business. a room has a fixed size ... if you stretch the ceiling it will be too big for the room ...

   No no. When the installer bring the cloth it is way to smaller than the room. Then you heat it and it becomes room-sized

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## PhoenixSkyline

> This makes me laugh - you really do understand our humour well when you can come back with a clever statement like that.

   Ofcourse i do)) 
If i don't understand something in english it only means that there were some words used i haven't heard yet. 
 So yes. Russians love joking.) And yes i used to drive Lada as well (that was my second car) So i am a sufferer. And that's why i don't want you guys to mess with it.

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## Marc

> I have one of these: Home of the HDT - VL SS Group A and a Calais Sport with a 5.6L V8.
> .

   I only now understand why your nome de plume ... I always assumed some navy relation  :Smilie:

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## Marc

Hei ... what happened to the hobbies? I said I like metalwork you know  M E T A L     W O R K      :Rofl5: 
I had this gate on the backburner for a while. Found the time to start working on it now. Today I'll transfer the image onto my welding table and use the drawing as a template. Design inspired by two Ukrainian blacksmith that have a name with a lot of consonants and not enough vocals  :Smilie:  
Credit for the inspiration is to Bryck Pavlo and Kormosh Alexander from BK gates http://bk-kuznya.com/en/2017/01/30/gate/

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## PhoenixSkyline

Didn't get it. Is that a gate?

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## Marc

Yep ... a gate. Right side is hinge side. 
How do you like this dog? Author is Alexandr Viht ... told you, alwasy a few consonants short ... My father used to say that the names are so that you don't have to open your mouth too much or the cold air will get it  :Smilie:  https://www.facebook.com/wicht.faa?f...n=group_dialog

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## PhoenixSkyline

That is cool! Made of what? i mean what metal is this?

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## Marc

Seems just steel to me. Here is the link to the previous photos. I can't read russian, may be there is an explanation there?  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

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## PhoenixSkyline

There isn't. Bit it says that the teeth are made of stainless steel

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## mudbrick

So if houses in Russia cost a hundred years pay who owns them all? That sounds really strange to me, I thought houses here in Aus were expensive !! People here complain every day about house prices when we can buy a very nice house for 20 years pay. This is still a large commitment but is possible, and most people here with stable work and some common sense own their own home or unit eventually. 
How many houses does Putin own I wonder??

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## Marc

> There isn't. Bit it says that the teeth are made of stainless steel

  Yes, you can tell that from the colour of the welding. All TIG welded.

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## commodorenut

> I only now understand why your nome de plume ... I always assumed some navy relation

   It describes me quite well when it comes to the cars.  I know them quite intimately, and do concourse judging.
The tagname was my pseudonym when I wrote columns for a mainstream automotive publication, and I've also contributed to a couple of well-respected reference books and a DVD.
My real passion is the first 2 generations, although we do have a late model 6L V8 (wife's car) and ironically, my daily is a Ford....but it's the only ring-in out of 7 cars.
Thankfully the Brocks are now old enough for club rego, which is ~$50/year, compared to over $1000/yr for full rego.

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## phild01

Club rego is quite restrictive isn't it, like maybe a Sunday drive to a meet once or twice a year or so!??

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## mudbrick

What the hell, a Ford? You must enjoy replacing head gaskets and chasing electrical problems  :Smilie:

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## Marc

> It describes me quite well when it comes to the cars.  I know them quite intimately, and do concourse judging.
> The tagname was my pseudonym when I wrote columns for a mainstream automotive publication, and I've also contributed to a couple of well-respected reference books and a DVD.
> My real passion is the first 2 generations, although we do have a late model 6L V8 (wife's car) and ironically, my daily is a Ford....but it's the only ring-in out of 7 cars.
> Thankfully the Brocks are now old enough for club rego, which is ~$50/year, compared to over $1000/yr for full rego.

  I was thinking in replacing my wife's 2004 commodore for a Calais a couple of years old. Is there a model better than another?

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## mudbrick

Is the 04 a VY 3.8 or early VZ 3.6 or V8?
The late VE's are good if serviced well and driven properly. The VF drives great but has a few weak points like the electric steering that's prone to failure.

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## commodorenut

> Club rego is quite restrictive isn't it, like maybe a Sunday drive to a meet once or twice a year or so!??

  Warning - this is only for NSW - other states have different rules, age limits etc. 
This is a fallacy that detractors from the old scheme liked to perpetuate.  I've been involved with club rego since before the little purple & white plates came out in 1996. 
You have to be a financial member of a club that is authorised by the RTA/RMS to be part of the Historic Vehicle Rego Scheme (HVRS) and the car must be 30 years or older, and in standard condition - save for safety, security or maintenance improvements (eg seat belts, blinkers on older cars, alarms/immobilisers/trackers, radials instead of cross-plies etc). 
You could use it on any gazetted club run, but if you needed to use it at other times (eg for a wedding where you are NOT receiving payment), then you simply rang up the registrar & booked it into the day book.  The registrar's job is to record movements, but some club registrars liked to play rent-a-cop and say no - legally they can't, but there were some power-trippers out there.  I've taken the old Chevs out on weekday evenings to film a TV ad, and done a few family weddings, as well as a 5 week tour around Tasmania, and a similar run across NSW-VIC-SA-Kangaroo Island-SA-VIC-NSW.   It only had to be "booked in" witht he registrar.  They also allow "reasonable distance" runs near your home or vehicle storage location for test & tune purposes.   
But that's the older system, which few clubs still run - most are onto the logbooks.  2 years back, the RMS introduced the 60 day logbook trial, which was recently extended for another 2 years.  You still have to be a member of a club in the HVRS scheme, but you don't have to inform them of any non-club event movements - simply put it in the logbook, and you have the whole day to do whatever you like.  Official club events don't need to be recorded, so you have 60 days of additional freedom.  I've actually used mine more on logbooks than I did on full rego! 
There's also a new scheme for (legally, or engineered) modified cars, called the classic vehicle scheme (CVS).  These are a bit more hassle to register, and the plates are like the conditional council rego plates (green on white), but with a D on the end.  Not all clubs run the CVS scheme, as it's an opt-in system.   

> What the hell, a Ford? You must enjoy replacing head gaskets and chasing electrical problems

  No such (bad) luck.  They'd sorted all those issues by the time the FG LPi was released, although mine being an early one, and with the km I do, I have had several heads replaced on it, but the last one fixed it properly.  It's been a great car - over 6 years old now, and 225K on it.  I've done a lot of running maintenance & improvements though - like the diff bushes.  It had 2 sets replaced under warranty, but I fitted polyurethane ones that have lasted.  I often tow a loaded car trailer with it - long distances too, so the driveline cops a hammering.  But you can't beat these cars for towing (they are much better than the Commodore) and far more comfortable than an SUV, ute or 4WD, especially as I use it as my daily when it's not towing.   

> I was thinking in replacing my wife's 2004 commodore  for a Calais a couple of years old. Is there a model better than  another?

   

> Is the 04 a VY 3.8 or early VZ 3.6 or V8?
> The late VE's are good if serviced well and driven properly. The VF  drives great but has a few weak points like the electric steering that's  prone to failure.

   mudbrick is right there - if it's a V6 you want, they are all sensitive to regular oil changes (they need them), but the problems the early VE V6 had were ironed out by the VEII models.
There's not that many EPS failures in VF - you hear about them because of the inconvenience, but I've known more Hyundai i30 EPS failures than VF Commodores.  A relative who lives with us has a VF SSV that's nearly 3, and has had no issues at all with it.   
As far as comparing how the VE & VF drive, there is a difference.  I had a V6 VE for 4 years & 140,000km, prior to getting the Ford.  I have a photo somewhere of Christmas in 2009 with my VE, the wife's VE Calais V, and the inlaw's VE SSV, all in the driveway, and not another car in sight.  A very "VE Christmas" that year! 
The VE drives very, very well, and feels much smaller than it really is, but the VF is just that bit nicer.  Apart from the steering feel though, it's not really that noticeable to the average Joe unless you're used to the VE, and hop straight into the VF for a comparison.  Me personally, I'd choose the VF Calais V over the VEII, as it has many more electronic aids (blind spot, cross traffic etc) that the VEII doesn't have, and a much more modern update of the interior (the ambient lighting in the Calais V is nice too). 
One thing I found is ours is quite an early VE Calais V, and it has all the bells & whistles from the era.  However, some of the nicer things (like the suede covered flip-out pockets on all 4 doors) were de-contented over the VE production life, and a later VE Calais V is noticeably less opulent than an earlier one, and this is another reason why I'd have a VF over a late VE.

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## phild01

What is the computer like in the later Commodores.  One I helped with getting was a VZ and the interior light didn't work...had to replace the computer module.  Thanks for the club rego thing too. Wouldn't mind an old 60/70's car.

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## commodorenut

Interior light is controlled by the BCM (body control module).  They are normally very reliable by the VZ.  The VR/VS ones used to fail occasionally, usually prompted by outside influences such as an incorrect jump start, or dampness/corrosion from getting the carpet saturated and creating a humid environment.  Me personally, I've never had a BCM fail, and the only 2 I am aware of personally is a VS ute that was a flood survivor (failed from corrosion a few months later) and a VE that was shorted out by jumper leads.  I have heard anecdotally of a few fail when windows were left down in storms.  Some I know of from a mate who is in the industry were replaced because the relays that control the auto-down for the driver's window stopped working, which prevented use of the window. 
I've never heard of a VE or VF having a BCM fail.  Although our VE did have the keyreader around the ignition lock fail - about 1 in 20 starts it would work.  The fault code produced pinpointed the issue.  Only hassle was it needed to go to Holden to get the new module coded to the car, but the fix was less than $200 all up. 
One more thing with the VF - remote engine starting.  Very nice on a hot day (or cold morning) if you pre-set the A/C to what you want before turning the car off prior.  The range can be up to 100m in ideal conditions (line of sight etc).  However this featue can be retro-fitted to the VE for around $300, but only has the remote range of the factory key.   You can get longer range remotes for a couple of hundred $$ though.  The system I put in my wifes car lets her start it from 400m away at her desk of an afternoon, and the remote confirms once it's started.  They say it's good for 3000 feet.
The system I put in operates the same way the VF one does as far as security.  The car remains locked, and the steering lock is still on too (there's no key in it - although in the VF this is done with a proximity key and solenoids).  If you touch the brake pedal while it's running, it will stop the engine.  To use the car, you simply approach as normal, unlock it with the remote like normal, put the key in, and turn it round to igniton (it won't trigger the starter if you turn the key too far).  The remote starter then releases control to the key, and it's just like you're using it normally - except it's nice & cool inside, when it's stinking hot outside.  The VF is even simpler - as long as you have the key with you (and it's picked up by the proximity sensor) you simply hop in & drive away.

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## David.Elliott

Back to the Lada thing.. 
Used to have a print shop and would need to purchase bearings for the rollers often. 6001ZZs 
Was at the bearing shop one day and guy walks in with a box full of loose bearings. Tells the guy he needs one of each.
Counter guy picks up his verniers measures a couple and says, Lada gearbox then. 
Customer is amazed and asks how he figured that out.  It's the only thing I know of with a mix of metric and imperial bearings, came the reply...

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## OBBob

Lol... use to pass one with a sticker "built for Siberia not for Suburbia".

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## PhoenixSkyline

Our offroad-guys often glue a sticker on their cars that says "i drive where wolves are affraid to sh...t"
))) 
Cause our offroad cars like lada 4x4 or UAZ Patriot are famous for their passability.
They can get you everywhere

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## METRIX

> What the hell, a Ford? You must enjoy replacing head gaskets and chasing electrical problems

  
Electrical problems, I thought this was the domain of the Commodore, ever since the VN days  :Smilie:

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## toooldforthis

> Our offroad-guys often glue a sticker on their cars that says "i drive where wolves are affraid to sh...t"
> ))) 
> Cause our offroad cars like lada 4x4 or UAZ Patriot are famous for their passability.
> They can get you everywhere

  my van is pretty popular over there I hear.  
some Russian video clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3NFViLI-TY 
an Aussie van is at 1:11 climbing a hill at Glass House Mountains.

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## PhoenixSkyline

have bought a new car. 
The Lada)))

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## OBBob

> have bought a new car. 
> The Lada)))

  Congratulations

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## PhoenixSkyline

Thanks))

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## phild01

Brand new?  Engine details!

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## PhoenixSkyline

3 years old

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## phild01

Anything Asian about it, or is it all Russian?

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## PhoenixSkyline

Russian)). there are some details from asia or europe but generally russian

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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline



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## phild01

Looks good, lot's of in car cameras in Russia, have you got one too?

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## PhoenixSkyline

I use my phone for that. A lot of people do the same.

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## Marc

That's a fine looking car man ... only problem it has the wheel the wrong side  :Frown:

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## PhoenixSkyline

Thanks my friend)) we'll move the wheel if i move to australia)

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## commodorenut

Lada seem to have come a long way in 30 years.  The original Ladas we got here in the late 80s were worse than early 80s Asian cars - with the exception of the first Hyundais around the same time.
It appears Lada are trying a lot harder to keep up with their contemporary rivals in the budget hatch market, no longer having the very low-rent dashboards & spartan interior trimmings.  
Their styling is still very conservative though.

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## PhoenixSkyline

My new car)
Lion

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## Marc

My new boat.
Stebercraft Persuader

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## PhoenixSkyline

Wow) Is there some sort of cabin down inside the boat?

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## OBBob

> My new car)
> Lion

  Nice. I have a 208 30th edition.

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## PhoenixSkyline

> Nice. I have a 208 30th edition.

  Wow. Dope  :2thumbsup:  GTI? How many horsepower does it have? Is it 1.6l under the hood like it's under mine?

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## PhoenixSkyline

I didn't know they sell Peugeot down there in Australia

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## OBBob

> I didn't know they sell Peugeot down there in Australia

  Certainly do but the French brands are less common than others. Pug and Renault are starting to make some strong progress with their recent models.

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## PhoenixSkyline

Pug is Peugeot right?)
Renault is one of the most popular car brand In Russia. And they also own the Russian brand Lada so considering this fact we can say it's the most popular brand here)
But Peugeot is less popular

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## PhoenixSkyline

My wife wants a 208. She'll let me keep the 308 to myself if she gets a 208)

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## PhoenixSkyline



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## Cecile

Are cars a hobby?   
I sew.  I have four machines and am considering another.  I have enough fabric to open a shop (that's just some of it.) 
"Whoever has the most when they die, wins."

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## OBBob

Cars are most certainly a hobby. Nice craft setup.

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## 308hjute

> This makes me laugh - you really do understand our humour well when you can come back with a clever statement like that. 
> In the late 1980s we had the Lada Samara (hatch), and Lada Niva 4WD imported into Australia.  Under Australian design rules, the cars had to be complianced by a primary or secondary manufacturer.  There were numerous secondary manufacturers around (and there still are today), but one such outfit was HDT Special Vehicles.
> It was headed up by the local motor racing legend, and 9 times Bathurst winner, Peter Brock.  He raced cars since the 1960s, but from 1980-1988 Brock built performance modified versions of the local Holden Commodore.  Most were a 5.0L V8, and in 8 years some 4200 odd cars were built & sold. 
> In 1985, a new Brock VK Group A Commodore was worth $22K.  Now, due to the muscle car boom, you won't find a good one for less than $80K.  They were a desireable car back then (to criminals as well) and they are still desireable today to Aussie muscle car fans.  I have 2 of them - an '86 and an '87. 
> Due to numerous reasons, a rift developed between Holden & Brock that finally climaxed in February 1987, and Holden cut all ties with Brock.  He struggled on until August '88 before selling the company. 
> One of the things he did to keep going financially after Holden, was to utilise HDT's secondary manufacturer status, to compliance the Ladas for sale in Australia.
> One of the more silly decisions, was to release a "performance" (I use the word loosely) version of the Lada Samara.
> Here's some info:  1988 Lada Samara Sedan Brock Delux | Champions Brock Experience | THE OFFICIAL PETER BROCK 05 PERSONAL COLLECTION MUSEUM 
> It wasn't his finest moment, but it paid the bills, and he managed to barely scrape enough money together to launch a 2-car assault on Bathurst in 1987.  The second car was actually cobbled together out of used parts, but went on to be declared the winner, and gave Brock his 9th (and final) Bathurst victory. 
> ...

  This is the Commodorenut I know....  :Biggrin:

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## commodorenut

> Pug is Peugeot right?)
> Renault is one of the most popular car brand In Russia. And they also own the Russian brand Lada so considering this fact we can say it's the most popular brand here)
> But Peugeot is less popular

  Yes, Pug is an Aussie name for them.   PSA is Pug's parent, and they are a superpower in the car industry owning a vast range of brands, products, and component manufacturing, sharing the costs amongst the group - in the same way VW/Audi/Porsche do, and Fiat/Chrysler.  I am not surprised they now own Lada.  More surprising is when you sell someone bragging about their posh new Jaguar that Jag are owned by the Indian company TaTa, and Volvo are owned by the Geely company of China... 
In the 90s the French brands got a bad name locally - not because they were particularly bad cars, but because they were designed for a different climate, and couldn't handle the local conditions.  Whilst the heating system was fantastic on a 5°C Sydney winter morning, the A/C struggled whenever the temperatures got over 30°C, which is almost every day in January.  They picked up their act eventually, but it's taken nearly 2 decades for them to start selling small hatchbacks in reasonable volumes again. 
Now they are bought by people wanting to brag about owning a "European Car" (supposedly a status symbol), for Hyundai/Mazda money.....  That premium went out the window in the 80s, and even Mercedes are selling cheap models at the bottom end, riding on the badge rather than the (dismal) attributes of the car.  One of my friends is a Merc mechanic, and he recently said the real Mercs start with the C class.  Anything A or B is a cobbled together on a budget in a vain attempt to sell cars to those infatuated by the badge alone.  After experiencing several of them, I can tell you a Hyundai I30 is a far better car than any A or B class, with the exception of the AMG all-wheel-drive A-class. 
But getting back to the Pug.  Have you seen this Indian TV ad? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50A9wjJ40Dk 
I think it's quite clever.   

> I didn't know they sell Peugeot down there in Australia

  Here's an FYI for you phoenix - Australia had local assembly of Peugeot (and Renault) models for nearly 30 years.  From the early 50s, until the early 80s.  
Why did they do this?  Back in the 1920s the Australian Government implemented very high tariffs on fully-built imported cars to encourage our local industry to thrive.  
The way around this, was to have local content.  This meant as much locally manufactured parts as possible.   
So the most economical way for this to work for car manufacturers was to use locally manufactured bodies, fitted with imported drivelines.
Holden was one such local body builder - they were bought out in the late 1920s by GM, locally assembling Chevrolet, Buick & Pontiac models (2 of these remained until the 1960s).
In 1948 they launched our own locally manufactured car - so not just an assembly of local and imported parts - the whole car was made here - pressings, welding, castings, machining etc. 
Ford & Chrysler, as well as other brands (like BMC -  Leyland/Austin/Morris) would also go on to open local factories producing local Australian models, so the government maintained tariffs & import duties to protect the local industry.
AMI (Australian Motor Industries) oversaw local manufacturing of a myriad of imported brands - predominantly Toyota from the 60s, but also other Euro brands, and even AMC/Rambler.  Eventually AMI was swallowed up by Toyota in the mod 80s.
The government also maintained local content rules - so those assembled locally with few local components were still taxed hard, but those with a higher % of local components reaped the benefits.
The best example of this is a locally assembled  Rambler Hornet from the 1970s - it has parts sourced from the "big 3" Australian manufacturers at the time - Ford, Holden & Chrysler - things like the steering column, transmission, front hub assemblies etc - all locally sourced, and different to the US spec.  This got them enough content to enjoy tax breaks. 
As it became clear that parts sourced overseas (where volumes were much higher) would be a lot cheaper, the local content % rules became a hot topic - particularly in the 1980s.  Our first generation of Commodore - launched in 1978, used a lot of imported components from Opel - things llke the A/C system, the headlights (Bosch Germany), and interior components.  As time went on & model updates occurred, much of this was localised (eg Australian brand Air International HVAC on all models from Sept '81, locally manufactured Hella tail lights & headlights were also introduced).  If locally manufactured cars didn't meet local content % break points, it cost the manufacturers in incrementally increasing tariffs.  To offset this, local manufacturers could get credit for exports - which was taken up with great gusto by GM-Holden, Toyota, and Nissan (Nissan still manufacture lots of components in Australia to this day - in Melbourne). 
This sharing of volume also spurred the growth of "badge engineering" - model sharing between manufacturers.  Much like the US had been doing for decades, and GM had done in the 70s with the Isuzu T-series (Gemini in Oz) and J-series (Camira here, and spawned a multitude of Opel, Vauxhall, Pontiac, Buick and even Cadillac models), but this time they shared with other manufacturers - like Holden & Nissan to create the Pulsar/Astra, Ford & Mazda with the Telstar/626 and Laser/323 models.  There were many more.  It meant the cost of model development was shared (and reduced) and the volume of components - particularly locally manufactured components - could be increased.   
It resulted in the late 80s birth of the "Industry seat" which ultimately saw Lear Corp & then Futuris become very profitable, when one basic bucket seat design, with minor (modular) variables, could be supplied into so many local models.  There were over a dozen local models that were fitted with variants of the industry seat by the mid 90s - and it's probably the best example (cost wise) of Aussie ingenuity in the car industry.  This seat design and practice continued on until 2016, and the last models from Ford AU & Holden used seat components that evolved from that design, and there's quite a lot of interchangeability (switches, motors, memory modules, lumbar mechs - even the recliner mechs & shafts interchange).   
But our Government had already done the damage in the early 1970s.  With the same use of import tariffs, we actually had a viable local electronics industry - locally manufacturing radios & televisions until the early 1970s.  The Government of the day removed the tariff protection for this industry, and within a few short years (some would say months) that industry vanished.  Learning from this, they saw fit to implement staged tariff reductions on our local car industry - but to avoid the backlash they copped from the electronics sector, this was a much more long term plan - clearly planned well ahead so those responsible (Button & Whitlam) would be long out of the limelight when the fruits of their (labors?) began to hit home in the 1990s and 2000s.  This staged tariff reduction saw imported Korean cars go from $14.990 drive-away, to just $11,990 drive-away in a few short years in the late 1990s.
This not only forced the industry stalwarts like Mazda & Toyota, to come up with ways to make their small cars cheaper, but maintain the "premium" feel over the Korean imports, but eventually led to the death of our own local car industry. 
The irony of this, is that every other country in the world who manufacture cars, have some form of protection for their local industry - be it by taxing imports, engine size, or direct support from Government funding (which is how Australia had to do it for the last decade or so of local manufacturing).   
There were claims of "no other country imposes tariffs on imported cars" - but this was crap.  Other countries used different forms of taxes to protect their local industry.  Take Malaysia for example.  At the time they were exporting Proton brand cars to Australia, and they were coming in with no import tariff.  But to export an Australian built Ford Territory to Malaysia, the AU$40K vehicle ended up being over AU$85K because of the taxes they applied based on vehicle dimensions & engine size.  
But hey, they don't have any import tariffs, so Australia shouldn't charge an import tariff on their cars right? 
So why did I ramble on with all this?  It was more to give you a picture of the local industry, and how it came to be that PSA's predecessors locally assembled their cars here (as did VW and others), but as it became harder for them to meet the local content rules, the cost of local manufacturing + the imposed taxes meant it was just as easy to fully-import the vehicles, and wear the tariff.  As cars became more complex in the '80s, and thus less able to share costly components across brands unless it was designed into the car from the start, this turned out to be a wise move on PSA's part.

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## commodorenut

> This is the Commodorenut I know....

  Haha, thanks Kev  :Wink:  :Wink:  
Haven't seem you in ages mate  :Eek:     

> Cars are most certainly a hobby. Nice craft setup.

  Yep, that's right.  I have both as a hobby, which comes in handy for interior trim.  
My wife and mother-in-law taught me how to sew in my 20s (308hjute knows both of them!) 
I wish my hobbies only took up that much space.... my "craft" collection is limited to a plastic box of bobbins & reels, and a couple of boxes of left over fabrics.
My gadgets/electronics would fill a double-door linen press.  But my car hobby is the problem.  It has enveloped a double garage, under-house storage, half the back yard, and a couple of cars garaged in other locations....

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## METRIX

So with our push to have free trade agreement with the EU, there is a general consensus the 33% LCT will be finally dead and buried sometime in 2019 - 2020. 
Let's see how this one plays out, the EU has stated we have to get rid of it if we are to have a free trade agreement, obviously the gov't will lose "free" money, so wonder how they will make up for the loss of around $600 million per year in LCT. 
Probably increase taxes more to make up for the loss, so everyday Australians will make up for the rich who were paying this tax to drive their expensive cars.

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## r3nov8or

Talking about politics is also a great hobby of ours  :Biggrin:

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## Marc

> Wow) Is there some sort of cabin down inside the boat?

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## OBBob

> Now they are bought by people wanting to brag about owning a "European Car" (supposedly a status symbol), for Hyundai/Mazda money.....

  ... or those who appreciate a hot hatch with serious pedigree.  
They do however still depreciate alarmingly well in Australia so you can get a lot for your money if it's not new. 😀

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## PhoenixSkyline

Since we're talking about hobby then hobby it is

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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline



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## PhoenixSkyline

> Talking about politics is also a great hobby of ours

  That works for every forum in every country i guess)

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## PhoenixSkyline

> 

  Awesome man

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## Bedford

> Awesome man

  Nice boat as well. :Biggrin:

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