# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Hire equipment - beware

## Eastie

In Victoria worksafe is blitzing equipment hirers and their hire yards to weed out unsafe, non-compliant and un-maintained equipment.
Unfortunately like any industry a small minority of hirers may be taking advantage of this and offloading their crap onto unknowing backyarders.  There has also been rumours about of bodgey hire equipment being moved to quieter locations and interstate.  Dont waste your $s on unsafe equipment. 
Here are a few key questions to consider before hiring equipment:  *Are you provided with appropriate advice about the items you intend to hire?*   *Is safe-use information provided?*   *Are machine/blade guards in place and operable ?*   *Is there evidence that items are inspected and maintained between each hiring?*

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## Pulpo

It annoys the crap out of me hiring a piece of equipment only to find it does not run like it should. 
You hire the equipment to usually save time, however much time can be wasted stuffing around trying to make it work properly. 
I could not agree more; check to see if the product looks like its been well maintained: clean, sharp blades, proper safety gear. etc 
I think the prices paid for hiring are certainly not cheap, which supprises me how badly maintained the hire equipment can be. 
Decide wisely 
Pulpo

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## Iain

I think the worst offenders are the Backyard Blitz etc shows who show the gear, in pristine condition of course.
After watching one show, putting in posts with a post hole digger, at only about sixty bucks a day, I went to hire one, the team were a little under of the cost for a dingo with a post hole digger, * Two hundred and bloody sixty dollars for one bloody day*.
Always cautious of the prices quoted now.
The other point is for about three days hire on most tools you could buy a new one so why bother, unless its a dingo which I have no need for (also closer to two weeks hire on that one).

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## Dean

It amazes me how they can charge sometimes up to 60% of the costs of actually buying the tool to hire it for a day...Just outlay a bit more, buy one new and you not only get a brand new tool to use, you also get to keep it for next time  :Smilie:

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## q9

Plenty of times we have bought secondhand tools - cheaper in most cases than hiring, can take as long as we like using it, and nearly always able to recover 85% of the purchase price by selling when finished.

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## Markw

Whilst I am disgusted at the prices some of the major hire co's charge, considering many of the users are absolute knuckleheads who shouldn't be trusted with a childs plastic hammer. I can see why they charge so much because tools do not last. Maybe there should be two differing rates, one for tradesmen and one for unskilled renovators. 
But then again I have seen some pretty poor tradesmen in my time. 
Please note that this is NOT targeted at anyone in particular but just a general observation 
:confused:

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## Sir Stinkalot

> _Originally posted by Iain_  *I think the worst offenders are the Backyard Blitz etc shows who show the gear, in pristine condition of course.
> After watching one show, putting in posts with a post hole digger, at only about sixty bucks a day, I went to hire one, the team were a little under of the cost for a dingo with a post hole digger,  Two hundred and bloody sixty dollars for one bloody day.
> Always cautious of the prices quoted now.
> The other point is for about three days hire on most tools you could buy a new one so why bother, unless its a dingo which I have no need for (also closer to two weeks hire on that one).*

  I too was looking at hiring a Dingo Digger to redo our backyard. I had a look around the web for some of the bigger hire companys as I thought I would get a better deal and the price was huge as mentioned above. I then stumbled upon a very small hire outlet here in Geelong that mostly hires party goods .... they have assorted tools as well ... the Dingo Digger can be yours for $140 day including fuel and the post hole digger $40 .... so it pays to shop around and not always look for the biggest outlet. They actually have two that seem to get little use so when I am looking at hiring I will ask for a deal over two days ... I am sure that they wouldn't say no .... I think around $250 for two days sounds good. 
Stinky

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## journeyman Mick

Stinky, the hire company I used to deal with (no need now I own at least 1 of everything :Smilie:  ) gives from last thing Friday afternoon till first thing Monday morning for the usual 1 day hire rate. Most of their customers are trade so they don't tend to hire on the weekend. You might try getting a similar deal. 
Mick

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## Glen Bridger

Hi, 
Well I must say I agree with everything. The cheap companies usually have crap equipment. And the good places forget they are hiring and not selling the equipment.  
I hired a trench digger  *once* from a cheap place, it was the only place which had half day hire. Well this thing really looked the part. Three cylinder diesel, hydraulic drive motor, self propelled, came on its own special built trailer and not to mention it weighed nearly a tonne. I thought this was the sh*t, look out here comes another Grand Cannon. 
What a piece of crap. As soon as I tried to dig anything deeper than about 6 inches the hydraulic drive unit just stopped. I only got half of the 14 metres of trench dug to the required depth of 600mm.  
When I took it back and told the guy what I thought, his reply was "I hope you weren't trying to dig in clay". I told him if I had nice soil in my yard I wouldn't need a bloody trench digger. 
I would have been better off having someone come in with a small digger and have it done. 
Glen

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## Sir Stinkalot

Fair call about the smaller cheaper places .... I have checked out the Dingos in question and they both appear to be near new so I assume that it will opperate as such. I will check about the weekend hire deal ... anything to save a few dollars as this backyard makover is going to cost the earth ...

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## journeyman Mick

Just a couple of tips, re hire equipment not working. Make sure you get their after hours mobile phone number and if you don't have an account with them pay by credit card. The few times that I've had dramas with hire gear I've rung them and screamed blue murder, told them to come and bring a replacement immediately. Just beacause you're not hiring the machine to make a living doesn't mean your time isn't money. If I'd been given a trencher that didn't trench I would've rung immediately (starting off nicely of course) and then if they didn't come to the party returned the machine and told them I wouldn't be paying for it. So you either don't pay for the item on your account at the end of the month or you contact your credit card company and get them to stop payment. It isn't always neccesary to get stroppy with them, but sometimes you really need to keep pushing your point to get your way. 
Mick

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## John G

My advice for hiring equipment: hire an owner/operator instead. 
I was recently landscaping my sister's garden, and needed to do a fair bit of leveling, trench digging, and post-hole-digging.
I wanted to hire a dingo, but the dingo, plus all the attachments, would be over $400 a day (I'll name names Mr Kennard!).
Then I called some of the Dingo owner/operators that advertise in the local community paper. Found a guy who worked for $55/hr.
This was my choice: Hire it myself, I would have to collect and return it, learn how to drive it etc. As a novice I figured I wouldn't work very fast, so it would take me 2 or 3 days. ($800-$1200)
or
Hire the guy, he arrives, I spend 10 minutes explaining the plan to him, telling him where to dig etc. He starts work, way faster than I would work, he already has all the attachments. On the first day he did 3 hours work. I got him back a couple of weeks later for some follow up work (back-filling, some extra holes etc). About 3 hours again. Total cost $320. Which is less than 1 day's hire!
I had to do a bit of planning so it was all ready for him to go (i.e. do all the marking out), but I was very impressed.
This was awful hard clay (in Nth Canberra), and at times the Dingo struggled, but it all got there in the end.

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## pete152

Gidday,
I am new to all this handy man stuff.So when some one said they buy second hand gear to save money then sell it afterwards.Where do you buy from?
I have looked at Cash Conversayons(something like that!!)and the prices are nearly at new price levels.
Thanks,
Peter

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## journeyman Mick

Peter, over the years I've bought a lot of second hand gear and the number one rule is to know what it costs new. Cash Convertors is generally expensive but they do have a 3 month warranty. I have gotten a few bargains off them over the years but it's a matter of constant looking. Then there's garage sales, for sale classifieds and auctions. I've probably gotten the most bargains at auctions but I've also seen people get caught up in the heat of the bidding and pay better than new prices. On the other hand at a recent auction a stack of demolition saws (like a chain saw, but with a 14" cutting disc) went for $50ea. You need to know what you're looking for, what it's worth and be prepared to keep looking and looking. 
Mick

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## pete152

Thanks for the reply.I will check out the week-end shopper in the courier mail,did not even think of that!
The cash covertors  prices near us seem to so close to new it would not be worth it.
any way thanks again,
Peter

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## Pulpo

Mick at $50 each for a demolition saw did you buy the lot? 
What, around $1,000 for a decent new one. 
Anyway with regards to hiring a Dingo or the like forget it. 
You maybe could justify it if you only need one implement and are very proficient at its use. 
I've hire them twice ($300 for 24hrs)  and helped a mate who hired one once. 
Always had problems with the equipment. 
This is one experience 
The air filter was clogged with dust the engine had no power.
After explaining to the hire shop the problem by phone, he said nothing he could do (his first mistake), there were no spares.
Being over an hour away to return the dingo, he suggested if I return it now I would not be charged.
I then indicated I would not waste another 2 hours of my time to return the Dingo, I would return it tomorrow being more convenient, however he indicated that I would be charged (his 2nd mistake). hmmm. 
I nearly suggested, that you come and collect it at YOUR earliest convenience, its now your problem. To say this statement annoyed me was understatement; I was under the pump to get stuff done. 
So removing the air filter did the trick, it worked a treat. 
I'm sure that Dingo is not worth hiring at any rate these days 
If the hire shop was polite, helpful, and concerned with the problem, not to mention maintained their equipment this would never had occurred. This piece of equipment should never have been rented.  
The fact is, it would be better to hire a professional operator, who is more than likely cheaper and frees you up to do other tasks.  
As for buying second hand tools, look in the trading post. Larger pieces of equipment I would consider but not hand held power tools generally. Ive wasting much time looking, but sometimes you get lucky and find a good buy, which makes it all the worthwhile. As Mick said know your stuff. 
Happy hunting 
Pulpo

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## journeyman Mick

No didn't buy any, I called in to the auction on my way home and it was almost over, there was a huge queue at the office of people paying for their purchases so I couldn't get in to get a bidder's card. It was a mixed auction, a lot of resort furniture and other "non trade" goods, so lots of serious machnery went for a song or got passed in as most of the crowd were homemakers. I've hired dingos a couple of times but in both cases they were being paid for by the client who specifically wanted me to do the work. I usually get a bobcat and operator in - I've got a mate who only charges me $50 per hour (GST inc.) For that I get an operator, 2ton tipper, bobcat with all attachments and a mini excavator, can't beat that! 
Mick

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## Iain

Crime Converters is an expensive way of buying anything, broken down crap at near new prices.
Try to sell something there and see what they offer, thats an eye opener:eek:

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## journeyman Mick

Iain, I've had luck there though, you just have to keep coming back to check them out in case somebody's mispriced something or they're really desperate to get rid of stock. My Crime convertor bargains include: Stihl 029 chainsaw near new, $375.00; 3 way camping fridge $300.00; Racal air helmet $70.00; Comet 3 handpiece with tips and cutting attachment $25.00; Demag pneumatic tapping drill $50.00 (they didn't know what it was). I also managed to unload my 12yr old Makita 10" SCMS (which was starting to sound terminal when warmed up) on them for $50 and a mountain bike with a replacement cost of $600 which they had $250 on. It's a bit of a past time for me, secondhand and garage sale shopping and I've got some bargains over the years but you might get 1 bargain for 10 - 20 visits. 
Mick

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## Pulpo

I agree with Iain 
This is an organisation that helps crime. 
Not too mention I find their attitude impolite and sleazy. 
Their products most of the time are crappie and overpriced. 
I realise that the trading post may also have issues but the chance of an individual selling directly is a lot less. 
I also get from any 2nd hand sale a receipt with their drivers licence No. 
My advice for Sydney siders forget Crime converters. 
Cheers 
Pulpo

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## q9

I went in to a Crime Converters looking for a small fridge (the small bar fridge, you know the type).  Old, crappy ones, with stains and rust cost $50 MORE than a brand new one from an electrical shop down the street, and the new ones came with 3 YEAR warranty.  Draw you own conclusions.

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## pete152

Thanks for all the replys.seems I am not the only one that thinks there prices are to high and other things.Will look at week- end shopper.
Peter

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## bradtez

all the posts i have read have all had very valid points. But i tend to agree the best way to go about getting a dingo for your front or backyard is to hire a contractor to do the work for you. They have all the attachments, they know how to use the equipment AND the attachments. It can be and usually is cheaper than fo you to have to do all the running around and working out how it all works and goes together.
If you need a dingo digger in Canberra, call Brad's Backyard Mini diggers!
How's that for a plug? :Smilie:

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## Fantapantz

Hire a COMPETENT operator with the right equipment tooo.....Bobcat dramas are painful....Onto the 4th bobcat in three days............First guy brilliant.second guy old geared and nice to say i was wasting money....third guy.young inexperienced....broke a fence post which also cemented in the water mains to the house.......Forth guy brilliant......200 ton of dirt to move and the good guys moved twice as much in 1/3 the time.........nowonder anyone efficient has a waiting list.....

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## MrFixIt

Hi  

> _Originally posted by Iain_  *Crime Converters is an expensive way of buying anything, broken down crap at near new prices.
> Try to sell something there and see what they offer, thats an eye opener:eek:*

  This is SO TRUE! I have two examples for you.  
I wanted to sell (about 5 years ago) a  complete camera outfit. It was in absolute pristine condition. My guess was that no more than 20-30 rolls of film in its 10 year life. Had several lenses including a 600mm mirror lens. I wanted $400 for the lot. We could not agree on a price. I managed to get $390 for as a trade in on a new (film) camera. 
A few weeks later Cash Converters were selling the same brand lens (ONLY the lens) in worse condition, for $450!! 
A borrowed (from a friend) Bostich framing nail gun was stolen from me. In searching for a replacement I tried many CC stores. There were/are many beat-up nail guns. The best I could find was a Senco brand at $490. I could not get the price lower than $450. I did not want to pay that much for that nail gun. 
A couple of days later I found "on special" the EXACT same model Bostich nail gun (brand new of course, even had some improvements over the old one) for $425 at Glenfords Tools. 
So yes CC ARE expensive when buying FROM and EXTREMELY cheap when selling TO. 
Regards 
Peter

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## MrFixIt

Hi  

> _Originally posted by journeyman Mick_  *Iain, I've had luck there though, you just have to keep coming back to check them out in case somebody's mispriced something or they're really desperate to get rid of stock. My Crime convertor bargains include: Stihl 029 chainsaw near new, $375.00; 3 way camping fridge $300.00; Racal air helmet $70.00; Comet 3 handpiece with tips and cutting attachment $25.00; Demag pneumatic tapping drill $50.00 (they didn't know what it was). I also managed to unload my 12yr old Makita 10" SCMS (which was starting to sound terminal when warmed up) on them for $50 and a mountain bike with a replacement cost of $600 which they had $250 on. It's a bit of a past time for me, secondhand and garage sale shopping and I've got some bargains over the years but you might get 1 bargain for 10 - 20 visits.*

  I have had some bargains, but not done as well as that. I'm glad you're in QLD, I don't need the competition over here in WA  :Redface: ) 
Regards 
Peter

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## MrFixIt

Hi 
I just wanted to post a message in favour of my local "Kennard" hire company. I have hired a few items from them. 
The local yard has won some US based awards for their service etc. Anyway their (local) attention to detail is TERRIFIC. 
I hired a small chain saw. Started first time every time, they gave all instructions safety equipment etc. EACH time the chainsaw goes out it has a BRAND NEW chain. So each user has nothing but the best with which to cut. 
They figure it was easier to fit a new chain every time, collect the old ones and auction them off in "bulk". They had no need to waste time sharpening anything, the turn around was faster (clean/replace chain/adjust/test) out the door on hire again! 
SO if any of you Perth people want to hire stuff try Kennards Balcatta! 
As far as Dingo hire goes, that's something I'd like to do, but know that the hire of a bobcat and driver and truck is SOOOO much more cost effective. For $200 I had some low brick walls demolished, concrete slab broken up and all rubish removed and the area leveled off. The quality and experience of the driver can make such a BIG difference. 
Regards 
Peter

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## journeyman Mick

Peter, you'll be pretty jealous of my latest acquisition, a Delta 1/2hp morticer for $180. Hardly used at all, I think the original owner didn't set up the chisel/bit clearance properly as it was completely jammed with shavings, got frustrated with it and sold it. See my post "got lucky twice today"  :Biggrin:   
Mick

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## DavidG

My new acquisition is on its way.  
Saves hiring a Dingo. 
This should make gardening easy  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

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## Hireman

Interesting topic, and some very valid points made, but as the owner of a small hire business, I would like to point out to you some issues that hire business opperators face.  
Pricing of hire equipment: This is based on original purchase price, utilisation(how often it hires out), how much maintenance is required, how long it lasts, and how much time needs to spent on each machine after each hire. See below an example
A Dingo with a trencher, post hole digger w/4 augers, a 4 in 1 bucket and a trailer costs around $50,000. 
Its usefull lifespan is 3000hrs, approx 3 years. 
It will hire out aprox 2 - 3 times a week.  
It needs servicing every 200 hours @ $400/service $6000 total 
The trencher chain lasts 12 months @ $1200   $3600 total 
The auger teeth last 12 months at @ $40 each, 4 teeth/auger   $1920 total 
The tyres last approx 600 hours @ $110 each     $2200 total 
The trailer needs registration         $200 total 
Drive chains and sprockets last about 1500 hours @ $450   $900 total 
Both the trailer and Dingo need insuring for "DRY HIRE" approx $1000 p/a      $3000 total 
So the total cost of running that Dingo for 3 years is $17820, add the purchase price in $67820, less the trade in value after 3 years/3000hours =$45,820 
Now divide that by 3 years = $15,273 divided by 52 weeks = $293/week 
So $293 every week, to run that machine, and I haven't even added in the following factors: 
The finance interest 
Or the staff wages to clean, safety check and log that machine after each hire
Batteries and starter motors
Degreaser and truck wash or grease
Pins and bushes
Office consumables, paper, ink cartridges etc for every hire contract raised
Eftpos fees when you pay by credit card
The new engine, when a hirer runs it without an airfilter!
Punctures that are found the next day because the hirer pumps up the flat tyre on the way back in.
The tank of petrol that the hirer doesn't replenish prior to returning the machine.
And list just goes on and on............... 
My suggestion is next time you hire a machine, and don't like the price, think about all the hidden costs........but probably more important......that mate of your, we all have them, that cheats the system, doesn't fill the tank, damages the machine by abuse, or runs it without an airfilter has just driven up the prices for everyone else, including you!

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## bradtez

> My new acquisition is on its way.  
> Saves hiring a Dingo. 
> This should make gardening easy

  
DavidG, 
Whats your new acquisition? 
Brad's Backyard Landscaping & Minidiggers ( a DINGO ) :Biggrin:

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## durwood

Have to agree with you guys, I always go out and buy what I need instead of hiring. I have always found that once I have the tool I can find lots of jobs for it,  
This thread reminded me of a moment I had years ago. I went to hire some acro props, just walked in as a customer was quickly leaving the hire firm office. When I got through the door the guy behind the counter greeted me with a whole series of profanities. I was about to turn and leave when he suddenly calmed down and explainded his rant 
The customer had just returned a chain saw. It was stuffed big time, He came in complaining the blade was worn out and he wanted a new one. Worn out there was nothing left of it. 
When he was asked what he was cutting he answered "sandstone"

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## DavidG

bradtez
That post was back in 2004 
The toy is a Kubota BX23 TLB

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## mungus

pete, I have found Cash converters far from cheap until you are interrested in more than one item. I make stupid offers with a wad of cash in my hand that the I make sure the sales rep has seen, they soon negotiate!

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## brurox

G,day all 
you guys should try hiring from from the smaller guy you get better maintained equipment and service as it is normally his business.
Try a place called riteway hire its on sussex st coburg they have a deal where you hire saturday and get sunday free.
I hired a dingo that came with a standard bucket and trailer for $200 for the whole weekend less than half the price of kennards quoted. 
cheers James :2thumbsup:

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## Tools

I don't know what Kennards charge, but they are far from the cheapest in the industry.The other problem with them is that they are open 7 days a week, so will charge you for both days on the weekends. 
Tools

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## Wild Dingo

mmm thanks for all that info hireman... interesting 
personally... I use 2 hire places for the two things I tend to need most 
large trailer.. hauling anything from 6mtr lengths of timber to cars $70 per day Bunbury Hire... great small business 
Machinery... never a dingo... front end loader all weekend hire $700 with fuel Bunbury Machinery hire and sales 
Bobcat or mini excavator... find a local bloke {local Italian bloke named Guido} $50 per hour 
Woodmiser... bloke in Karnet whos name I cant remember off hand $70 per hour including travel and setup 
Check around your local area... Ive always found the local hire places far better than the big mobs,,, machinery is in better nick (not a dulux type reco "new" machine) cost is reasonable and they will show you through the machine... I always ask them too even though I do know how to operate them (machine operator over many years and machines) I like to get a handle on the knowledge and ability of the staff as well it gives you an idea if they actually give a shyte or not.. if they dont I go elsewhere. 
I find it interesting the comments about Crime converters... I have only ever bought one thing in any of their stores a black 1970 US made Les Paul for $150 with amp... needed the pots and strings along with one tuning turny thingy changed but that was it brilliant guitar... I did once see an original Gibson gold top in the one in Rockingham for 300 but by the time Id ripped to the bank to get the $ some other wanker had snuffooed it... mongrel 
One trip down from Carnarvon I went into the one here in Bunbury thinkin to get rid of the video camera so I could upgrade to a digimal... bloody bobby dazzler of a camera this thing leads lenses bag top shelf unit... the dipstick offered me $50 for it  :Annoyed:   get stuffed noddy!... so the missus is looking around in the shop so I wait at the door havin a fag an the misus calls me over to the camera section same video camera sans all the extra equip $700!! I admit that I literally bloody well lost my rag right there and then and gave that damed fella a right dressing down  :Annoyed:  never darkened their doors again

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## Iain

I have seen Kennards in the USA, assume it's the same company as here, support the locals every time.

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## sgcox

> I have seen Kennards in the USA, assume it's the same company as here, support the locals every time.

  Kennards are an Australian firm at least in Australia.  See http://www.kennards.com.au/page.asp?e_page=1936&48=2636 
Stephen

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## MackMick

Just so happens that I hired a dingo from Kennards Mackay yesterday. 
Kennards, great work, $171 for 24hrs (pick up at 8am and return at 8am next day so I could work until dark) and they were $60 cheaper than next company and up to $90 than major competitor. 
I did only hire the 4:1 bucket but that was all I needed and did not pay for all the extras.  Little Dingo worked a treat all day with no issues and only used $12 of diesel. - that's < $1.50 hr 
I do not hire much gear but it certainly was fun, learnt a whole heap and had a great day getting my hands dirty on the controls.

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