# Forum Home Renovation Flooring  Reviews please

## johnoo

Can anyone give me any info on the Karndean vinyl (wood looking) planks?
How realistic do they look compared to floorboards?
Would you choose them over Quickstep laminate?
Do they realistic to walk on or do they sound hollow also? 
Any info you have wouls be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks

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## That Floor Guy

I install both vinyl plank and floaters, etc. The vinyl flooring is probably the 'quietest" type of floor you can buy.   
Basically if you're talking middle of the price/quality range and up then the main differences are  :Redface:  
Premium floors Quickstep is noisier under foot but is very resistant to scratching etc, although you can not apply product to it's surface to prolong it's life as it wears.  
Vinyl plank will show more fine scratches but can be refreshed quite easily with a buff and polish every couple of years, it does not have the "hollow" noise of the floating floor. 
Also Floaters (mostly laminates) are more susceptible to moisture, although if you go a Premium Floors product this shouldn't be of great concern as they've put a lot of work into their mdf to resist this. 
Asthetically the vinyl will look nicer around the perimetre as it can be cut neat up to your skirtings, the only way to achieve this look with a floater is to remove and replace your skirting and kick boards to avoid using scotia or quad to cover the expansion gap. 
You may (on large jobs or depending on your floor layout) require expansion joints in your  floating floor. 
Floor preparation is key for both types of installations, vynil will look ugly if not prepped right and a floater will feel ugly with excessive movement. 
I have Karndean Davinci Plank in my house and have laid 1000's metres of the stuff. This picture is Davinci Plank laid diagonal with a double border (vinyl has endless design options also), polished with Research Products Glazer.,Other options could be Polyfloor, Forbo, Amtico, Armstrong. 
For Floaters you won't go wrong with Premiums stuff, you can find cheaper but it IS worth paying the extra with a floor.

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## johnoo

Thanks for your reply, lots of info there to take in.  
I certainly didn't realise that you could apply a glazer over the topof vinyl, I love the look of your floor! Does the flooring place do the polishing, or do you need to go elsewhere to have it done? I would think that applying this would help the foor last longer, is that right and would it need to be reapplied every few years? Also was just wondering how Karndean holds up under the weigth of heave furniture, would it leave a dint on the floor? 
Went out and had a bit of a look today, we liked the look of this one, although it looks a lot darker in this picture, what do you think? http://http://www.karndean.com.au/si...roduct_ID=1067 
With cleaning this floor is it fairly simply on reading the instructions on the website, looks like you have to give it a proper clean every 6 months or so is this right? 
Thanks again!

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## leeton

"That Floor Guy" your floor looks sensational...Johnoo...have you been to Kardean in Scorseby..big showroom. I must admit I like the look of their product, however I am looking at square tiles...I just need to work out if I can afford them. :2thumbsup: 
PS..I tried the link and it won't connect.

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## That Floor Guy

Karndean recomends you polish all their products (using their sealer), I prefer the Glazer as I've been using it so long and it looks good and wears well. 
Best guide to cleaning is mop once a week with kids, once a fortnight without (with a ph nuetral cleaner). 
No "big" clean required if you keep it clean. If you get 3 coats of sealer applied intially then you shouldn't need to do anything to it for atleast 3 yrs. 
Some shops offer the service, some don't. You'll have to shop around for that one. 
Can't see your link, but I am a fan of darker floors.

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## That Floor Guy

Thanks Leeton, if you're in the market for a stone tile look check out Polyfloor's "Ceramica" we actually grout that using a flexible colour matched grout (brand new to Aus). The finished product looks identical to ceramic tiles without the solid cold feel of tiles. Also it eliminates the risk of installing ceramic tiles of a flexible substrate

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## leeton

Thank Floorguy...how does it compare costwise to Kardean

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## johnoo

Sorry about that, these are the ones we are considering:  http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1067 http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1156 http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1072 
"That Floor Guy" can you tell me more about the glazer, how it is applied and what type/brand should I be asking for?  Would I get 3 coats of sealer and then the glazer or just 3 coats of glazer? 
Also can you tell me with your floor being a glossy finish, does dust and scratches show up more so with this type of finish? 
Thanks guys! :Smilie:

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## That Floor Guy

Karndean really doesn't have a product to compare with Ceramica, maybe the closest would be Karndead Davinci tile but that's drawing a long bow asthetically. I'm not involved in the retail side of things so my knowledge of exact material pricing is vague  at best, I only supply labour and installation type materials. 
Also remember Karndean has products which cover each end of the price/quality spectrum. 
Time to go shopping :Smilie:

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## johnoo

> "Johnoo...have you been to Kardean in Scorseby..big showroom. I must admit I like the look of their product, however I am looking at square tiles...I just need to work out if I can afford them.

  No haven't been there, that's on the other side of town for me...bummer!

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## That Floor Guy

Can't go wrong with Van Gogh, that stuff will last a lifetime. I've seen it in a few David Jones stores in NSW and it's handling the abuse with ease. 
I actally recommend my customers not to polish that stuff as I think it looks better mat, as it has the texture to replicate rough sawn timber. 
Also Van Gogh doesn't show up scratches like a highly polished Davinci Plank.   :2thumbsup:

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## johnoo

> Can't go wrong with Van Gogh, that stuff will last a lifetime. I've seen it in a few David Jones stores in NSW and it's handling the abuse with ease. 
> I actally recommend my customers not to polish that stuff as I think it looks better mat, as it has the texture to replicate rough sawn timber. 
> Also Van Gogh doesn't show up scratches like a highly polished Davinci Plank.

  So would you say that it look more authentic left unpolished? Would you recommend that over the (polished) Davinci Planks? And if w dont polish them would we still need to seal them with something, if so what? 
Thanks again "That Floor Guy" you've been a great help, please keep it coming! :2thumbsup:

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## That Floor Guy

You can polish/seal Van Gogh with a satin Vinyl polish (Glazer is a wetlook) if you like.  
You can't compare Van Gogh to Davanci Planks as they're two different types of finish. 
If you like clean modern lines go Davinci Plank, if you like the Rustic look go for Van Gogh. 
As with any surface, a highly polished finish will show more scratches.

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## johnoo

Thanks Floorguy! 
Have you seen the Art Select Oak Royale Collection from Karndean, how does it look compared to the Van Gogh, I beleive this has more of a sheen to it.
This is it here: http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1571

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## That Floor Guy

lol, sounds like you aint afraid of spending some dollars if you're looking at the  Art Select range! 
That's some good gear, the embossing matches the pattern and it gleams when polished up! 
Not long ago I installed that in one of the A league's players house, came up real nice!

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## johnoo

> lol, sounds like you aint afraid of spending some dollars if you're looking at the Art Select range!!

   :Yikes2: Oh really?  Haven't checked out prices yet, don't want to go over the top, are they a lot more than the Van Gogh?   

> That's some good gear, the embossing matches the pattern and it gleams when polished up! 
> Not long ago I installed that in one of the A league's players house, came up real nice!

  Oooh, that does sound really nice, don't suppose you have any pics.  So should I be considering this one over the Van Gogh...if we can afford it that is! :Frown:  
Can't remember if I've already asked this, but does this Karndean fooring actually look like timber floorboards?

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## dttmfp

Floor Guy, 
I went out today looking for laminate and was told about the Art Select Oak Royale Collection.  I was always under the impression that vinyl was not the way to go (choosing between laminate and vinyl).  Your photo and comparison made me rethink.  Is there any other info that you can share? 
Thanks in advance.

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## That Floor Guy

Just to re-iterate: 
The problem with the word "Vinyl" is that it conjours up thoughts of cheap and nasty in people's minds. A Super Market would have to be the one place that would put the most demand on a floor, yet they only us vinyl.... This is because it is a very cheap surface to maintain. You can bash it then just buff, reseal (under 3hrs for a house) and away you go again. 
Laminates are also very hard wearing (good ones) but don't like moisture and the surface can't be replenished.  
Now the thing most people don't realize is it is a lot easier to sell a Floating Floor from a retail point of view than a vinyl floor, so in many stores I have contracted to they'll push the laminates over the vinyl. This really doesn't bother me because usually from an installation point of view you're in and out of a house quicker with a floater, and the money aint bad :Smilie:  
 To answer Johnoos last question about how it looks compared to the real thing, A vinyl Plank floor can look awesome, but nothing will ever imitate the depth of colour from a real timber floor, also the feel and atmosphere it adds to a house.But they are a great solution for many situations.  
If you like the look of it and it fits in your budget then go for it :2thumbsup:

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## johnoo

I have been told that the Armstrong Rhino planks is just as good as the Karndean without the additional cost and are also easier to maintain as they are already sealed.  Are you able to give me any info on these and how they compare to the Karndean Van Gogh and Art select oak royale?

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## That Floor Guy

Don't worry about sealers at point of sale, best way to think of polish is exactly the same way you approach buying a new car. They've all got a seal on them and you'll end up giving it a polish yourself reguardless within a year or two. 
Karndean only ever recomended a seal for their products when they started to produce their own sealers. The only reason I polished my Davinci planks was to get them gleaming straight up. 
Aint nothing wrong with Armstrongs Rhino Plank I would probably put that in my house over the Van Gogh (that's more for asthetics though as you still won't wear out Van Gogh in a residential dwelling) so it' really only personal preference on that one.  
 Art Select is pretty much up there in it's own class. 
I'd also recomend you look at Amtico, they've got some trick stuff.

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## CrazyEyes

So glad I found this forum thread - I have this exact dilemma of choosing between Rhino Elements or Van Gogh.  I have many questions - please help  :Confused:  
1. Van Gogh has 0.5mm wear layer & 15yr warranty while Rhino has 0.3mm wear layer & 12yr warranty - does this make Rhino inferior to Karndean or will there be no noticeable difference for residential use? 
2. Salesman said Rhino's wear layer is polyurethane *(PUR)* and was better than other brands that have polyurethane *(PU)*.  Is that true?  What is the difference between PUR and PU? 
3. Salesman said Rhino never needs to be sealed or polished so it is less work (maintenance information on Armstrong's website confirmed).  But is that realistic or will it require similar amount of sealing/polishing work as Karndean? 
4. Do you recommend sealing and/or polishing Rhino even though they say not to?   
5. Salesman said Kardean must be sealed to maintain warranty - is that true? 
6. I was told Rhino is a lot cheaper than Van Gogh ($75 sqm for Rhino fully laid and $120 sqm for Van Gogh fully laid).   Do those figures sound reasonable to you? 
7. I'm in North Brisbane, (I realise you are in Sydney but...) have you heard of anywhere up here that has good prices and installers?  Any particular franchises that I should visit? 
8.  I've looked at various samples, and some textured ones (eg. Kenbrock Floorworks) looked plastic/fake under certain angles of light.  The smooth matt ones looked more believable.  Do you agree the textured ones usually look more plastic than the smooth or does it simply depend on the brand? 
9.  I noticed you said you would pick Rhino over Van Gogh for aesthetics, is this because the Van Gogh is more rustic?  I've seen the Van Gogh and noticed they are textured - does this make them look more plastic than Rhino? 
10. At the moment I like Rhino in: Antique Oak, Light Oak, Spotted Gum.  Have you laid any of these before?  If so which do you think came out the best/worst? 
Hope all these questions aren't too annoying.  Thanks for the advice so far.

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## That Floor Guy

Lol, here goes: 
1.No, both will be out of fashion, etc before they wear out in a residential application. 
2.From my understanding Rhino,as with Polyfoor stuff's wear layers consist of a very hard clear layer of polyurethane above the printed wear layer.  
3.No you don't have to seal them to retain warranty like Karndean. 
4.There are really two reasons for sealing, One is to replenish a wear layer, the other is to give your floor a "face lift" so to speak. Surfaces in your house do not wear evenly, so you will feel the urge to buff and seal any vinyl floor after 3 yrs or so. Also if you're after a "wetlook" floor straight up you'll have to polish reguardless of product. 
5. Yep, though i've never heard of a warranty claim on any vinyl floor reguarding premature wear. Even if you don't seal your Karndean stuff, as long as you keep it clean it will surpass 15yrs wear wise (residential). 
6. No, obviously that retailer doesn't like dealing with Karndean.  
7. Decide on the product you like and get in contact with the manufacturer to recomend a retailer near you. 
8.The reason I don't like the textured ones is because real timber floors aren't textured, so yes I do think the textured ones can look a little plasticy, especially when polished (gloss)  
No prob mate :2thumbsup: 
9. see above, also be aware that on concrete I highly recommend a 3mm levelling compound as the "flat" stuff will show up undulations, etc a lot more. 
10.The best floors I've seen are the darker ones, polished up nice under a heap of down lights, awesome.

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## johnoo

> 2.From my understanding Rhino,as with Polyfoor stuff's wear layers consist of a very hard clear layer of polyurethane above the printed wear layer.

  In this instance can you still later on buff and seal this floor, just like the Karndean? Are the Rhino and Polyfloor therefore more "protected" because of this layer, I believe they will not make with black heel marks, is this right?   :2thumbsup: Keep up the good work "Floorguy" your info is proving to be invaluable!! :2thumbsup:

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## CrazyEyes

Floor guy, thanks so much for your advice. 
I rang a bunch of stores today getting prices.  A lot of the people I spoke with said not to get so hung up comparing durability and just get the one I like.  Apparently 0.3mm thick wear layer will last ages for a house and that the 0.5mm thick layer (like Van Gogh has) is commonly used for shops. 
And although I don't have to seal and polish the Rhino plank it is nice to know that I can do it later for a "face lift" if I wish to. 
Your point about the levelling compound being especially important for smooth planks was well taken.  So far salesmen have mentioned "Feather Finish" and "Ardit".  Are these suitable or are there better products to take up the 3mm depth variance? 
Thanks again mate.

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## pawnhead

Some fantastic help and advice from That Floor Guy.  
I'll need an overlay in my kitchen shortly. The house is all polished cypress, but half of the kitchen is an old laundry slab and it's a bit proud of the adjacent floor boards. I was going to butt some masonite up to the slab, and use a solid overlay or floating floor direct stuck down (I don't like the springy underlay).
I hadn't thought of vinyl, although I must say I'm impressed with the look of that Karndean Davinci Plank in your house TFG. I'd imagine that it would be thinner than solid overlay (which is about 12 > 14mm), so there'd be a smaller step in the door threshold to the loungeroom, which is a plus. I might have a look at some in real life. 
Thanks again for the advice in this thread TFG.  :2thumbsup:

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## That Floor Guy

> Some fantastic help and advice from That Floor Guy.  
> I'll need an overlay in my kitchen shortly. The house is all polished cypress, but half of the kitchen is an old laundry slab and it's a bit proud of the adjacent floor boards. I was going to butt some masonite up to the slab, and use a solid overlay or floating floor direct stuck down (I don't like the springy underlay).
> I hadn't thought of vinyl, although I must say I'm impressed with the look of that Karndean Davinci Plank in your house TFG. I'd imagine that it would be thinner than solid overlay (which is about 12 > 14mm), so there'd be a smaller step in the door threshold to the loungeroom, which is a plus. I might have a look at some in real life. 
> Thanks again for the advice in this thread TFG.

  Your best bet for your situation is to get to a point where your slab and timber floors match up ,the easiiest way to achieve this is to build up your timber side a few milliletres above the concrete side and then apply a leveller to the concrete side to bring everything up to the same hieght.  
Now once you're confident you've got a flat substrate then rather than fight the differing expansion and contraction forces happening between you timber and concrete (a battle you can't win) simply use a relativly new product called Dual Bond by Australian Hardboards, this is a floating masonite system which provides a perfect surface for vinyl. This will enable your floor to push and pull at itself whilst not effective your layer of pretty floor on top.

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## That Floor Guy

> Floor guy, thanks so much for your advice. 
> I rang a bunch of stores today getting prices. A lot of the people I spoke with said not to get so hung up comparing durability and just get the one I like. Apparently 0.3mm thick wear layer will last ages for a house and that the 0.5mm thick layer (like Van Gogh has) is commonly used for shops. 
> And although I don't have to seal and polish the Rhino plank it is nice to know that I can do it later for a "face lift" if I wish to. 
> Your point about the levelling compound being especially important for smooth planks was well taken. So far salesmen have mentioned "Feather Finish" and "Ardit". Are these suitable or are there better products to take up the 3mm depth variance? 
> Thanks again mate.

  Yep all these products handle residential use with ease, get the one you like the look of, because that's what it's all about. 
Feather Finish is a product used for skim coats, makes your slab smooth. 
Ardit (Leveller), is applied much thicker and levellels out to help hide the appearance of undulations. 
There are  different brands of these, they all really achieve the same end result. (We really don't need to get into the techincal side of this stuff! )

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## That Floor Guy

> In this instance can you still later on buff and seal this floor, just like the Karndean? Are the Rhino and Polyfloor therefore more "protected" because of this layer, I believe they will not make with black heel marks, is this right?  Keep up the good work "Floorguy" your info is proving to be invaluable!!

  Yep harder to scuff, etc. 
If it's vinyl / Linoleum, you can polish/seal it.

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## johnoo

> Aint nothing wrong with Armstrongs Rhino Plank I would probably put that in my house over the Van Gogh (that's more for asthetics though as you still won't wear out Van Gogh in a residential dwelling) so it' really only personal preference on that one.

  Haven't been able to find somewhere to go have a look at the Armstrongs Rhino Plank and their website doesn't have very good photos of the different colours.  Can you tell me if they are a similar look to the Da Vinci, I am thinking that I like the look of them, but the thing I don't like about the Da Vinci are the bevelled edges. Do the Rhino Planks have the bevelled edges?  Or can you suggest another brand with that look. 
Also noticed on the Armstrong website it said "Do not apply sealer or polish", does this mean you can't re-seal them latter on?   

> get the one you like the look of, because that's what it's all about.

  I think you have a good point there, although it is hard to picture a floor from those small sample pieces and it would be good if you could see all the different brands at the same time.   :2thumbsup:

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## That Floor Guy

I do find the "Do not apply sealers or polish" remark a little confusing, the general word out there from reps and suppliers I've dealt with is you don't have to but the material will still accept it. 
I'll chase up a rep this week,I do suspect that this is related to a marketting angle as their main angle is the "no polish" as opposed to Karndean who recommends "polish". 
It is wierd though as one of the main advantages of vinyl is the ability to replenish the surface/look of the material over years of wear.  
Davinci has got quite a large bevel in it, most middle to upper ranges of vinyl planks have a bevel, although some are very slight.

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## johnoo

> I do find the "Do not apply sealers or polish" remark a little confusing, the general word out there from reps and suppliers I've dealt with is you don't have to but the material will still accept it. 
> I'll chase up a rep this week,I do suspect that this is related to a marketting angle as their main angle is the "no polish" as opposed to Karndean who recommends "polish". 
> It is wierd though as one of the main advantages of vinyl is the ability to replenish the surface/look of the material over years of wear.

  Thanks, that would be a great help if you could do that, it all gets rather confusing at times.  I'm still having trouble finding somewhere to go have a look at the Armstrong planks, so only have a few pictures to look at and it's a bit without actually seeing or feeling them.   

> Davinci has got quite a large bevel in it, most middle to upper ranges of vinyl planks have a bevel, although some are very slight.

  Didn't have a real good look at the Oak Royale when I was out the other day, but from what I can remember, I don't think they had a very deep bevel like the Davinci, would that be right?  Although I do like the narrow planks and the "clean/smooth" finish of the Davinci... :Doh:  Oh man this is doing my head in! :Doh:

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## Spelunx

I used the Karndean Night Plank stuff in my house 7 years ago, and it really stacks up! 
I think it looks good, and is very easy to walk on.  I don't like the hollow sound of laminate flooring. 
I chose a colour that was very close to Tassie Oak, and then used Tassie Oak quarter-round as skirting, which came up a treat. 
It is extremely hard-wearing, with the advantage that, if by some chance a strip or two gets damaged, you can remove the offenders nd glue down a couple more.

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## johnoo

I thought I had made a decision on getting the Oak Royale, when I went and had another look at them, I couldn't beleive the differnce to the sample. They are very rustic looking with lots of knots and colour variation, which I so did not like! 
So I'm back at the start, not knowing which way to go. Had another look at the Van Gogh liked this one http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1072 
but not sure about the textured finish, (allthough this particular colour doesn't show up as much as the others) and how it will look once it is polished, wether it will look fake or plasticy. I like the smooth polished look which I suppose would be the Da vinci, but don't like the deep bevel!  If it's not one thing it's another!   :Please2: Please any suggestions or advise would be greatly apprieciated! :Please2:

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## johnoo

Just wondering if anyone can tell me: 
1. the bevel on the da vinci range, once there is 3 coats of sealer/polish will this mean that the bevel will not be as deep? 
2.will this bevel edge be a dust trap? 
"That Floor Guy" with your vast knowledge I need some of your invaluable advice here! :Biggrin:

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## That Floor Guy

The only thing you notice with sealer is the shine. The bevel will appear the same. 
My floor is still as clean as when installed, no dust/dirt trapped anywhere. 
We mop ours once a week, once a fortnight before we had the little one. That was enough to keep it clean. 
I have seen people let it go to the extent where there is a drt build up in the slats, as I don't live like that I can't understand how people achieve that level of dirt/dust build up. 
Sounds like Amtico's stuff may be what you're after, much like Karndean davinci only with a slight bevel and very tough. 
AFS has recently taken over distribution, give them a call to find a retailer near you and check them out.  
Australian Flooring Supplies
Tel: 02 9756 4477
Fax: 02 9756 4488
12-14 McIlwraith St
Wetherill Park
NSW 2164

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## johnoo

Thanks TFG, will have a look at that one. 
Do you have any views on the Renoir range, have you seen this one, if so is it as dark as it appears here.  It's so hard to tell from these photos, they all look so different in real life.  http://www.karndean.com.au/site/prod...roduct_ID=1154 
Thanks again! :2thumbsup:

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## That Floor Guy

I also forgot about Forbo's Allura range, great stuff also. I put this stuff in my brothers unit.  http://www.forbo-flooring.com.au/Def...spx?MenuId=865 
Renior is like a little Van Gogh, again it has the texture which aint for me.

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## johnoo

> Renior is like a little Van Gogh, again it has the texture which aint for me.

  Ok so that means that one is probably out as well then, I prefer a smooth finish. 
Had a quick look at the forbo, noticed some have bevelled edges, would they be the same depth as the da vinci?

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## johnoo

Ok, this is the type of floor colouring I would like (this is solid timber) in vinyl planks, does anyone have any suggestions??

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## dazzalenko

> Ok, this is the type of floor colouring I would like (this is solid timber) in vinyl planks, does anyone have any suggestions??

  Have you had a look at the Armstrong Rhino stuff?  Resilient Vinyl Plank Flooring by Armstrong Australia 
I think it looks great - my mate(a tiler) layed it in his house and I am so impressed with it I'll be doing my lounge with it. Next time I'm at his place I'll  grab a couple pics and post them up for ya....

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