# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  What I can and can't do legally as an OB

## ebf

Hi guys, 
I'll be going down the owner builder route in around six months time, so in the interim I'm working out what I will and won't do on the house build. 
Now obviously electrical and plumbing is out of the question. I'm also going to leave the concrete slab and any site layouts to the professionals and of course things like soil testing will need to be outsourced. 
My intention is to hire a chippy to work with me to do the bulk of the work, but I wanted to know if I can do a few other things that I'm not sure of. Build will be in NSW. Can I?   Do the site survey?Can I install the roofing (Colorbond)?Retaining walls (if plans checked and certified by engineer)?Erect scaffolding (both internal and external)

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## joynz

In VIC you can only erect scaffold to a certain height without a special ticket - assume it is the same in NSW.

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## OBBob

Hi there. Is it a timber framed house? I'd look at getting the wall frames and trusses all prefrabricated ... then just assemble on site.  
Not sure what you mean by 'site survey' - boundary survey - no, site set out - possibly (if you are confident).

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## ebf

> Hi there. Is it a timber framed house? I'd look at getting the wall frames and trusses all prefrabricated ... then just assemble on site.  
> Not sure what you mean by 'site survey' - boundary survey - no, site set out - possibly (if you are confident).

  We're going through Storybook who allow a bit of customisation, but on the flipside I believe only cut the timber to size - not pre-assembled which is a bit of a pain. 
In relation to site survey, I more meant the contour mapping of the site. I won't be doing the boundary survey and I think letting someone else do the site set out would be better - no point in me setting it out only to completely bork it - an expensive mistake.

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## OBBob

Ah ... kit home, some of those look interesting. I think you'll need to understand quite a bit about what they are providing and how it goes together. Personally I'd find it quite difficult (I think) if someone else had worked it all out in their head and then I had to put it together. Keep us updated i'd love to see how this comes along.

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## phild01

That the frames aren't pre-made would make me wonder if it is value for money!

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## OBBob

> That the frames aren't pre-made would make me wonder if it is value for money!

  Yeah, I guess you are getting an off-the-shelf design and access to bulk materials pricing? A service for people that are a bit daring but not quite bonkers enough to go from scratch alone.  :Smilie:

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## Marc

Hiring a chippy to work with you ...
That is a difficult one. To find a licensed carpenter who is willing to have the owner working alongside is not going to be easy. Unless you are a carpenter yourself, you are likely to slow him down a fair bit, not to mention that since it is your house you will unwillingly place extra pressure on him.
It is not impossible but you will have to find the right person that is willing to put a price on your contribution and deduct it from his pay.

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## Thylacene

From the Fair Trading web site "Regardless of the work's cost, specialist tradespeople must be licensed for doing: electrical wiringplumbing, draining and gasfitting workairconditioning and refrigeration work (except plug-in appliances)." 
From there you can do basically anything else that you feel competent to do, but whatever elements of the job that you do they must comply with the building code and the relevant Australian standards (ie carpentry references as1684). 
You should ensure that you are acutely aware of the requirements for inspection by your certifying authority. 
As to hiring tradesmen to work with, not an issue but don't expect a fixed price quote, hourly rate is the usual arrangement, as pointed out, you may slow them down.  If your confidence levels are up there, then maybe a labourer could be a better option.

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## ebf

> Hiring a chippy to work with you ...
> That is a difficult one. To find a licensed carpenter who is willing to have the owner working alongside is not going to be easy. Unless you are a carpenter yourself, you are likely to slow him down a fair bit, not to mention that since it is your house you will unwillingly place extra pressure on him.
> It is not impossible but you will have to find the right person that is willing to put a price on your contribution and deduct it from his pay.

  I was definitely thinking of offering a premium for this and had thought of those issues you raised - it will still get me way ahead I believe (money wise) while having someone experienced keeping an eye on me. 
What is a carpenters hourly rate these days anyway? $70 an hour?

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## manofaus

the secret is to do all those jobs that chippies hate doing... triple grips, truss boots, cleaning up. Finding trades that let you help them to do these jobs is where you save. Boring holes for lecos and plumbers in studs, fitting wall plates for switches, clipping up wiring, clipping up plumbing (under direction). Discuss this with the trades you want to employ. The only thing is make sure you do what you say you are going to do. they will sting you if you don't. I would be interested in what the kit price includes and costs.

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## OBBob

There's a pricing example on the website... not sure how accurate it is.

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## ebf

> the secret is to do all those jobs that chippies hate doing... triple grips, truss boots, cleaning up. Finding trades that let you help them to do these jobs is where you save. Boring holes for lecos and plumbers in studs, fitting wall plates for switches, clipping up wiring, clipping up plumbing (under direction). Discuss this with the trades you want to employ. The only thing is make sure you do what you say you are going to do. they will sting you if you don't. I would be interested in what the kit price includes and costs.

  That's a good idea and obviously well within my skill level. Why don't they like triple grips and truss boots? They seem fairly straightforward.

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## OBBob

> That's a good idea and obviously well within my skill level. Why don't they like triple grips and truss boots? They seem fairly straightforward.

  Boring and there's lots!   :Biggrin:

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## ebf

Fair enough. It'll be new and exciting to me I suppose  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

I don't mind it to be honest but I can imagine why someone doing it all the time would get sick of it.

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## JB1

> Hiring a chippy to work with you ...
> That is a difficult one. To find a licensed carpenter who is willing to have the owner working alongside is not going to be easy. Unless you are a carpenter yourself, you are likely to slow him down a fair bit, not to mention that since it is your house you will unwillingly place extra pressure on him.
> It is not impossible but you will have to find the right person that is willing to put a price on your contribution and deduct it from his pay.

  In Vic at least, you don't need a licensed carpenter to complete your framework, however you'd be a fool to not use a qualified carpenter.

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## Prados

> In Vic at least, you don't need a licensed carpenter to complete your framework, however *you'd be a fool* to not use a qualified carpenter.

  with all respect, that doesn't sound right to me... to stick a couple of nail into a couple of noggins you don't need to sit 4 years in TAFE... To build a roof from scratch - different story. 
here is an example of "professional" or read it in another way - licenced carpenter... 20 houses built like that....

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## intertd6

> with all respect, that doesn't sound right to me... to stick a couple of nail into a couple of noggins you don't need to sit 4 years in TAFE... To build a roof from scratch - different story. 
> here is an example of "professional" or read it in another way - licenced carpenter... 20 houses built like that....

  come on there's only a few defects! I can spot 5 major ones. 
Inter

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## Marc

The thing is that as we discussed previously, big builders are allowed to employ unqualified labour as long as someone signs up for their work. 
I suppose that the criteria is "OK as long as it does not fall down in the next 6 month" so we can send the money to Bermuda, close down the company and open another one.

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## OBBob

Just not Panama...

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## Marc

I am sure Panama is Ok too, just has to be smarter than giving your own name to the bank.

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## Prados

> come on there's only a few defects! I can spot 5 major ones. 
> Inter

   :Biggrin:  
as an OB surely you are allowed to make a few mistakes here and there... as long as  "OK as long as it does not fall down[S] in the next 6 month[/S]" before settlement of the new owner :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> as an OB surely you are allowed to make a few mistakes here and there... as long as  "OK as long as it does not fall down[S] in the next 6 month[/S]" before settlement of the new owner

  Only in Queensland... most other places you are responsible for the 6+ year warranty.

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## PlatypusGardens

> as an OB surely you are allowed to make a few mistakes here and there...

  OBBob will agree   :Biggrin:

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## intertd6

> The thing is that as we discussed previously, big builders are allowed to employ unqualified labour as long as someone signs up for their work. 
> I suppose that the criteria is "OK as long as it does not fall down in the next 6 month" so we can send the money to Bermuda, close down the company and open another one.

   That goes for every trade or profession, small or large, blue collar or white collar, even at the public hospital.
inter

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## OBBob

> OBBob will agree

  Lol. It's called learning... afterwards.   :Biggrin:

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## r3nov8or

If you have just a few frames to do, DIY. If more than that, get them prefabbed with your trusses.

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## Marc

> That goes for every trade or profession, small or large, blue collar or white collar, even at the public hospital.
> inter

  Well ... not really at the public hospital  :Smilie:

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## intertd6

> Well ... not really at the public hospital

  interns are not fully trained or qualified.
inter

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## PlatypusGardens

> interns are not fully trained or qualified.
> inter

  
What about inters?   :Wink:

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## intertd6

> What about inters?

  i wish I could say I'm a jack of all trades & a tradesman of none, but alas I can't say that. And I'm not in the league of doctors & plumbers that bury their mistakes!
inter

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## PlatypusGardens

> I'm not in the league of doctors & plumbers that bury their mistakes!

  
Oooooo dang   :Rofl5:

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## Marc

> interns are not fully trained or qualified.
> inter

   Interns are fully qualified just don't have the experience. They get a fellowship or further specialist training. They are not unqualified labor recruited off the street performing task that should be reserved for a qualified tradesman.

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## intertd6

> Interns are fully qualified just don't have the experience. They get a fellowship or further specialist training. They are not unqualified labor recruited off the street performing task that should be reserved for a qualified tradesman.

  there're cheap too. LOL
inter

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## ringtail

> What is a carpenters hourly rate these days anyway? $70 an hour?

  I'll do it for $65 including gst.  :Biggrin:

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