# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  Building over a Easement

## CraigandKate

After a bit of advice on building over a sewerage and drainage easement, basically on the southside of our property we have a 6 foot (1.8m) easement. There is nothing physically there, the pipe is actually 1.8m on the other side of the fence in the neighbors property and one corner of the house is already 800mm over the easement. I have spoken with the council and they say they will require a planning permit to do this as it is a habitable room. 
So basically I have two choices, apply for a planning permit to reduce/remove the easement and pay/wait for that to come through, or move the extension over and have more wasted space. 
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Or any other suggestions?

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## SilentButDeadly

You need to determine how wide the entire easement is.  You may find that your property simply has only some of the width of the total easement.  And some infrastructure requires a quite substantial easement... 
If you could do it then I'd go with the first choice...

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## CraigandKate

Thanks SBD, yes I am not sure what the easement is like on my neighbors property, but I have determined from the water authority that the actual pipe location is 1.8m deep and 1.8m on the other side of my fence in my neighbors property, so logically it should not be a problem to build slightly over the easement on my side, however this is the council we are talking about and logic doesn't come into it! 
The first choice is looking like the best option unfortunately, although I am really struggling to get any information about whether this is the sort of everyday accepted planning permit application or something I spend $1000 and 6 months on only to be rejected offhand anyway.

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## m6sports

We built close to an easement that wasn't in our property ( rear lane ) and we needed to sink our footings an additional 1500mm deep, this was so if they ever needed to do work around the easement it wouldnt undermine the house.... I would speak to you local council they should be able to give you advice over the counter.... I just went in and spoke to there duty planer

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## Pulse

An easement is created by a legal instrument, it is not a planning or council issue. Surely you knew about it when purchased? I have a council sewer on my property, no easement but council has the say on plans, an easement is more difficult to get around. You need a solicitor, or surveyor to help out, cheers  
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## intertd6

Easements get built over every day of the week, it depends on what authority who has control of the easement & what it's reserved for, the planning process will sort out those questions then the costs can be calculated if boring is needed to bridge any encroaching areas.
inter

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## CraigandKate

Yes I was fully aware of the easement, I however did not realize that it would be so difficult to build over considering nothing is there! I built my shed over the same easement at the back with no problem whatsoever, however apparently that was only due to it not being a habitable structure, habitable structure means that they will under no circumstances allow the structure to be built on the easement, I have to get the easement removed. 
Basically from my discussions with the council yesterday they referred me to a land surveyor to arrange the planning permit, as they don't seem to know themselves what forms are needed for a planning permit to abolish/reduce a obsolete easement. I think I need to call to talk to someone else.

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## intertd6

> Yes I was fully aware of the easement, I however did not realize that it would be so difficult to build over considering nothing is there! I built my shed over the same easement at the back with no problem whatsoever, however apparently that was only due to it not being a habitable structure, habitable structure means that they will under no circumstances allow the structure to be built on the easement, I have to get the easement removed. 
> Basically from my discussions with the council yesterday they referred me to a land surveyor to arrange the planning permit, as they don't seem to know themselves what forms are needed for a planning permit to abolish/reduce a obsolete easement. I think I need to call to talk to someone else.

  maybe a redesign would be easier then.
inter

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## phild01

Would three deep piers suffice if a slab.  Just my opinion but an engineer might take 10 minutes to design a solution that has no influence on any of the pipes.

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## CraigandKate

> Would three deep piers suffice if a slab.  Just my opinion but an engineer might take 10 minutes to design a solution that has no influence on any of the pipes.

  Thanks for the suggestion, but there is actually no sewer or drainage assets there, just an ancient easement from the original subdivision (circa 1950), so no need for any special designs to eliminate loading on pipes that don't exist. 
I finally got onto a guy at the council who knew what the rules are and why, looks like there is no way around it apart from getting the easement removed where I want to build, so the suggestion is to reduce the easement width from 1.8m to 1m which will hopefully only a minor hassle. That being said minor hassle with the planning department seems to be ~$3k and 3-6months!! But land is expensive and to move the house over/adjust our design would mean a permanent waste of space on the southside of the property

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## phild01

So they are just preserving the easement just in case.  But why not build in a manner as if there is a pipe there.  Three piers would surely be cheaper than the other options.  I would try and argue that these would only be on the fringe of influence and that digging equipment could work around them.  But knowing what bureaucrats are like, they will probably roll up in a ball and say no. 
edit:  sorry I am not really getting this.  Reading your first post indicates there  is a pipe but it is not within the prescribed easement and as such can legally be built over by the neighbour.  So a pipe exists but not where it is supposed to be.
Why worry about the easement when an engineer might have a simple solution.

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## CraigandKate

> So they are just preserving the easement just in case.  But why not build in a manner as if there is a pipe there.  Three piers would surely be cheaper than the other options.  I would try and argue that these would only be on the fringe of influence and that digging equipment could work around them.  But knowing what bureaucrats are like, they will probably roll up in a ball and say no.

  The issue is that due to the easement being there they could technically ask to access it in the future and damage/remove some of the house in the process (at my cost) due to the waiver I would have to sign to build over it. Now if this was a shed/garage they see that as acceptable but the council have a blanket rule that under no circumstances should a habitable building be built over a easement, therefore it must be removed in order for me to build there, and the only way to remove a easement is through the planning permit process.

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## phild01

Ok, not going to push this but easements get built over, and if sewer and drainage, conditional permission can usually be got from the relevant authority.

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## CraigandKate

> Ok, not going to push this but easements get built over, and if sewer and drainage, conditional permission can usually be got from the relevant authority.

  Yes I 100% agree, but not in my council area apparently, I have pushed it! Spoken with most people in the building/planning department!

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## phild01

So the easement authority is the council.  Here Sydney Water would have the say.

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## Pulse

yeah I could only build carport with pavers over my sewer easement, it was old and they anticipate access at done stage, a garage was also not scceptable  
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## joynz

> Thanks for the suggestion, but there is actually no sewer or drainage assets there, just an ancient easement from the original subdivision (circa 1950), so no need for any special designs to eliminate loading on pipes that don't exist. 
>   ... minor hassle with the planning department seems to be ~$3k and 3-6months!! But land is expensive and to move the house over/adjust our design would mean a permanent waste of space on the southside of the property

  That does seem very expensive.  Is that just the application cost or does it include your site plan costs? 
In Kingston Council, I got a dispensation to build into the front setback and it cost just a few hundred dollars.  I was advised by others that I wouldn't have a hope of  getting the dispensation, but I found Council pretty easy to deal with.

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## CraigandKate

Yeah a siting concession like reduced setback is ~$250, I need one of those also! 
This is a planning permit application unfortunately $3k is worst case scenario, its death of 1000 cuts! ~$600 for the inital application fee $760 for the licensed land surveyor to prepare the application then they have an individual charge for everything like checking with South east water is a charge, plus south east waters charge for providing an answer, charges for advertising if required - it all adds up unfortunately.

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## smurf1987

I fall under the same water board as you. South east water will not allow any solid floor to be constructed over an easement. Paving is fine,  but blanket ban to concrete.

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## CraigandKate

> I fall under the same water board as you. South east water will not allow any solid floor to be constructed over an easement. Paving is fine,  but blanket ban to concrete.

  I have had a different experience smurf, my shed (concrete slab) has the rear over a easement with SEW approval no problem. The council were the limiting factor on the house issue they have a blanket rule that no habitable structure can be built over a easement in any circumstances. 
In other news it only took 4 weeks or so to get the planning permit all approved! But getting the title released from the bank updated by the titles office took 9 (and$1500) just got it back last week, now in with the council and then its building permit time  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Go to a surveyor, pay for his time and find out the truth. I doubt an easement that wide is required these days due to new machinery. A surveyor is engaged to argue planning cases with all councils. A surveyor could reduce the width of the easement without any problems I would think. Go to surveyor.  :Biggrin:

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## joynz

> I have had a different experience smurf, my shed (concrete slab) has the rear over a easement with SEW approval no problem. The council were the limiting factor on the house issue they have a blanket rule that no habitable structure can be built over a easement in any circumstances. 
> In other news it only took 4 weeks or so to get the planning permit all approved! But getting the title released from the bank updated by the titles office took 9 (and$1500) just got it back last week, now in with the council and then its building permit time

   Does that mean that you got the Planning Permit from Council to build your house over the easement  (or reduce the easement)?

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## barney118

You need to understand why there is an easement, it could be flood related too.  
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## CraigandKate

Yes sorry, I went to a surveyor and had the easement reduced from 1.8m (6ft) down to 1m. This was his suggestion as it meant that it would be easier to get through than actually removing the easement and would serve our purpose. 
The easement is actually a "Sewerage and Drainage" easement and physically there is no assets underneath and given my soil (sand) it is unlikely anything would be needed. 
Barney, as for why there is a easement, who knows? I would have a guess that it was a @@@@ up back in the fifty's when it was subdivided, as the sewer pipe is actually 6ft into my neighbours property (with no easement) and the easement was 6ft into my property so someone messed up!

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