# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Will a nail gun split Merbau?

## Lexi01

Hi Guys, 
Quick question for you...I'm about to build a deck and want to finish with merbau... 
I recently went out an bought an air compressor with a framing gun and a D-Bradder...and I'm thinking about buying a coil nailer for my deck and a small fencing job I'm doing. 
But I've heard that you can't/shouldn't fix hardwood with a nail-gun...cos it splits.  Can anyone who does this for a living confirm? 
Thanks, 
Alex.

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## Bleedin Thumb

You will not have a problem 99.9% of times.... Its the nails at the ends that can be a problem however if you're aware of it and don't nail too close to the ends you'll be OK, IE exaggerate the nail angle on the ends so the nail enters the deck board no closer than say 35 mm.

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## UteMad

I think the pics speak for themselves and i wont fit merbau with a nail gun cause i think the finish is junk and the life before the nails pop is way short         
hope this helps with your questions and yes they are all the same deck and merbau less than 3 months old and not built by us 
cheers utemad

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## Lexi01

> hope this helps with your questions
> cheers utemad

  Yes it does help... a lot.  Thanks for the effort to post the pics.  Looks like its drill and hand-nailing for me. 
Thanks again Utemad.

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## Planned LScape

I usually pre drill all holes in a deck, screen, all decking boards. Then hand hammer twist shank nails in as they twist as you hit them, locks in better than straight smooth nails.

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## UteMad

Assuming a treated pine structure and hardwood board!!! 
if nailing by hand .. use 65mm titadeck nails and pilot hole the board only first with a bit almost the  diameter of the nail 
if screwing  use 50mm Stainless steel type 14 square drive countersunk deck screws and pilot and countersink first using either a smart-bit or other brand bit ( board only again ) 
hope this helps 
utemad

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## jags

Hi ute mad 
I had a friend yesterday come over and help me finish the deck i'm biulding .
He is a highly qualified carpenter (does roofs ,renos ,and every thing else )  
To set the boards in place and remove the bows before screwing them down he was useing a very high tech nail gun he said it was the only one he knew of that fired nails with a proper head rather than a brad  .
Any way it worked a treat and half way though ( about a hour later ) i ask if there was any piont screwing the deck down .He said that he had done a number of decks with the gun and had never had a problem so we went ahead and put three nails in each board per joist. 
They are just below the surface of the board and you can barely see them but he said if i wanted to be pedantic i could putty the hole with a linseed oil based putty before oiling them . 
We did not split a single board ,but now you have me worried as you are the the one that does decks for a living . 
Will the board split down the track  ? 
Each nail was very thin and had two coated of glue one clear and one yellow .
The finished deck looks great with out all the screws on it .
I will but some pic up on thread i did hopefully tomorrow .
He also said he just brought a new toy that is like a gyprock plastering  screw nail gun that fires/screw stainless deck screws .
He is come over tomorrow so i will find out what bands the guns were.
P.S Thanks for the help the deck looks great and although framing is a pain the result is worth it .  
Rob

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## UteMad

Nail gun will be a duo fast coiler model number KD 665A or newer model  
Nails would have been duofast or paslode rgd 50's or ring dome 50's assuming treated structure 
heads sunk low is a side effect of the gun.. they depth adjust with the nose piece but this doesn't take into account board density .. most guys set them to over punch to save knocking the high ones down with a hammer 
good luck with the putty over the heads idea.. wont last very long before it falls out.. the boards move up and down as you walk on them and how much depends on how flat all your joist tops were before you laid the decking 
as to the new extension thingy like a gyproc screw gun only longer that puts stainless deck screws into hardwood decking.. good luck.. i have had the rep of one of the companies demo it for 30 mins to try and sell one to me .. i agreed to buy it up front provided he could prove it worked to our standard.. he gave up in the end and said he would come back in a few months when better screws arrived .. never heard back 
the problem with them is that there is no pilot for the screw so it has to cut its own hole as it drill though.. this in time they may perfect but what about the countersun k head?? it will have 1 to 1 1/2 rotations before it is flat which is no time to cut the countersink.. these products are designed for the US where a lot of there boards are softer.. i was very excited when i first saw it years ago and nearly imported one but to date the end result is below par   
good luck with your deck and i hope you get many happy BBQ's out on it enjoying the fruits of your labor.. Dont forget to post some finished pics too  
cheers utemad

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## UteMad

this is what i gather you mean with the screw gun   
cheers utemad

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## Gaza

> Hi ute mad 
> I had a friend yesterday come over and help me finish the deck i'm biulding .
> He is a highly qualified carpenter (does roofs ,renos ,and every thing else ) 
> To set the boards in place and remove the bows before screwing them down he was useing a very high tech nail gun he said it was the only one he knew of that fired nails with a proper head rather than a brad .
> Any way it worked a treat and half way though ( about a hour later ) i ask if there was any piont screwing the deck down .He said that he had done a number of decks with the gun and had never had a problem so we went ahead and put three nails in each board per joist. 
> They are just below the surface of the board and you can barely see them but he said if i wanted to be pedantic i could putty the hole with a linseed oil based putty before oiling them . 
> We did not split a single board ,but now you have me worried as you are the the one that does decks for a living . 
> Will the board split down the track ? 
> Each nail was very thin and had two coated of glue one clear and one yellow .
> ...

  did the gun shoot through the side of the board, was it a staple shape not a nail.

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## Bleedin Thumb

I will stick with my original advise..IE if its done carefully you can get away with a gun as Jags has just found out....having said that...its not best practice especially if the nail head is driven too deep ..laziness on the installers part for the reason UM states. 
But lets be realistic...sometimes the economics dictates the construction so YES you can use a gun on Merbau decks. I wouldn't do it on my own deck though.

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## UteMad

> I will stick with my original advise..IE if its done carefully you can get away with a gun as Jags has just found out....having said that...its not best practice especially if the nail head is driven too deep ..laziness on the installers part for the reason UM states. 
> But lets be realistic...sometimes the economics dictates the construction so YES you can use a gun on Merbau decks. I wouldn't do it on my own deck though.

  
I agree totally economics heavily dictates what the customer ends up with.. I have nailed gunned a few hwd decks in my time ( none in the last 5 years  ) and over 
500,000 nails have gone through that gun doing pine decks.. I don't like the finish and seeing as you have to warranty work you do i dont like to nail gun hwd.. We lose plenty of decks to guys who gun nail and in the current market times we have gone back to high end building as the market is riddled with guys cutting the corners on decks since the board prices sky rocketed last november.. The splitting doesn't always happen straight away it happens quite often as the board dries over the next 12 months.. We saw it on decks we were maintaining at first..  
Its not to say those who nail gun them are cowboys ( its more the industry standard )its just a cost cutting tool that i'd rather not do as i dont like the end result but i also concede there are more less than perfect cost cutting ideas appearing all the time and people need to make money and compete and whilst customers take the cheapest quote trades will go looking for ways to save money to secure work..It will get even worse if the market tightens further still 
Don't know if it was my post on the quikdrive but guess what received an email from them today ...  
cheers utemad

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## Terrian

drill & hammer, timberloc nails, thats how I did my temporary deck 14 years ago  :Smilie:

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## Slipry

Gidday guys, my first time here, and after absorbing a lot of advise over the past couple of months from this site for my deck rebuild, I have to throw in my 2 bobs worth for Lexi. 
Hand nail it. 
I am a mechanic by trade, and involved in metal industries in my carrer, but have done all my own DIY stuff. I am so not used to working with timber. :No:  
I stressed and sweated on how to efficiently and easily nail off my 450 m2 deck as I was not looking forward to hand nailing some 2,000 nails. Four weekends and I'm almost there, no problems, only whacked my left thumb twice and on the same day :Cry:  
I'll post some pic's on a new thread soon, what started as a quick re-top turned into an almost full re-build including demolishing a 7 m2 concrete verandah. 
 EDIT
Just read Lexi's other post on the front porch and it seems I'm a little late with my input, but it still may be useful to someone.

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## UteMad

> Gidday guys, my first time here, and after absorbing a lot of advise over the past couple of months from this site for my deck rebuild, I have to throw in my 2 bobs worth for Lexi. 
> Hand nail it. 
> I am a mechanic by trade, and involved in metal industries in my carrer, but have done all my own DIY stuff. I am so not used to working with timber. 
> I stressed and sweated on how to efficiently and easily nail off my 450 m2 deck as I was not looking forward to hand nailing some 2,000 nails. Four weekends and I'm almost there, no problems, only whacked my left thumb twice and on the same day 
> I'll post some pic's on a new thread soon, what started as a quick re-top turned into an almost full re-build including demolishing a 7 m2 concrete verandah. 
> EDIT
> Just read Lexi's other post on the front porch and it seems I'm a little late with my input, but it still may be useful to someone.

   
450m2 is a huge deck heheheheee
i gather your pilot holing the deck board if its hwd.. if using a 65 x 3.15 tita deck we'd put 3mm pilot.. stops board splitting and makes life easier.. a good hammer helps and cross hatch the hammer face periodically to keep good grip between the hammer face and the nail.. if its over 30 deg where a glove on your hammer hand .. thin not thick this will save  you death gripping the handle and reduce arm pain later 
cheers utemad

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## Slipry

ooops sorry UteMad, its 45m2. I'd be nuts if I took on 450m. 
I'll give you the full run down when I start a new thread on the build with some pics, but it is Merbau on existing hardwood joists so I used 50 x 2.8 Koala brand twists (same as titadeck) piloted at 3/32" (2.3mm) and 65 x 3.15  with 3mm pilot where I went into pine or LVL.  
I get what you mean about the hammer. Should've bought a new one for the job. I've got two, one with a weathered grip (no slip) but a small diameter handle so it felt like I was strangling it, the other a fatter but slippery laquered grip.

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## Lexi01

> Just read Lexi's other post on the front porch and it seems I'm a little late with my input, but it still may be useful to someone.

  No you're not too late...the front porch post was just a show and tell about me laying some T&G over concrete.  I used a nailgun for that and it worked fine...but that's T&G and you don't see the nails...so if it does split over time you wont see it...and its not such a big deal. 
I started this particular post because I'm about to build a deck out the back and wanted to know if I can get away with a nailgun for that too... 
I think Utemad's original answer (with the pics) speaks a thousand words...I.e.  If it doesn't split straight away...it probably will over time...so its pre-drill and hand nail for this little black duck.

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## Planned LScape

I know a chippy who does a lot of decks, the guy he has been subbying to lately has got them using 50mm framing nails for all decking. They reckon they havent been back to fix a deck as yet as the glue on the nail heats up with friction and stays in the timber. Apart from that obvioucly it saves a lot of time 
Having said that the titadek/griplok hand nailed deck I reckon looks a lot better and would be longer lasting. The framed nail decks look a little unfinished with the small holes they leave, but I suppose a lot of customers wouldn't care a great deal which is why a lot use that method.

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## UteMad

If they are in fact using a straight gal 50mm framing nail and not the paslode 50 deck nail they will have trouble into pine joists.. we did 2 or 3 like that with 65mm framing nails way back before there were any guns for decking and they popped so 50's will for sure.. ( besides looking cheap and rough ) Trouble is like you say some customers dont care but they all do when the nails pop up .. funny that .. don't care while paying but do care when its not perfect in a few months.. depends where your building and what the houses are worth i spose.. i know if the house is worth 250k you aint gunna get 40k for a deck its just not gunna happen so i spose guys look for ways to get the job costs down  
utemad

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## Bleedin Thumb

> I stressed and sweated on how to efficiently and easily nail off my 450 m2 deck .

  
My,  what a big deck you have..... :Biggrin:

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## binda

I can't add more to this thread then to say to the people who read this months after this thread goes to bed, if you are building it yourself, nail it by hand. Your own time is very cheap so do it in a way that guarantees quality, the tradie's time is is worked out at around $60-80 bucks an hour? Would that be about right guys? maybe upwards from there in some cases.  
They would be all too aware of less time = more money (so long as there are no call backs to fix warranty work) and nail guns are quick.

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