# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Kitchen Reno ~ Flat pack, or do it myself, or...?

## Toasty

Hi All, 
Would really like to revamp the kitchen that is as old as the house (25 years) and it shows.  Paying a kitchen mob to come and do it is would appear to be out of the que$tion. 
So what are your thoughts on various flat packs out there, versus making it myself from scratch?  *Flat packs:* Look simple, screw together, hang em up, bolt em in.
Look like they have a number of facings availble and appear fairly flexible in design
But they seem a bit expensive for what they are. *Doing it myself:* Have Triton 2000 and saw, triton router table.
Would buy Triton router and kitchen cabinatry bits, workcenter extension tables and whatever I would need on the assumption the overall cost would still be cheaper than flat packs
Also have a handy father in law who assembled his own prefabbed kitchen a number of years ago
I think between the two of us we would be up to the task and I am ASSuming I would save a decent dollar...?
So what is the reality of the situation I guess I am really asking?
If I made it myself what timber/material do i use for construction?
Do I need any form of building approval?
Am I kidding myself on the ease/difficulty of either proposals? 
TIA

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## Zedd

G'day, 
So long as you have the skillset and you dont move the plumbing, electricals etc I would suggest flat packs. easy peasy. When you consider the time savings on pre-fab its not worth it to cut your own melamine etc 
Or go the whole hog and do it in solid timber ?

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## Wood Borer

Toasty, 
Perhaps you are really asking for encouragement so you can have a sense of achievement, buy some tools and have some fun. 
Build it out of reclaimed/recycled timber and make something you are proud of, looks good, has saved the environment ...... I can't think of too many negative arguments. 
Go for it. What's the worst possible outcome? 
- Wood Borer

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## Toasty

>>So long as you have the skillset and you dont move the plumbing, electricals  
All the plumbing and electricals will stay where they are.  It's a pretty good layout already so no need to change things there.  Skillset, well that is something else, but like I said between my father in law and myself I think we would be up to it. 
>>you are really asking for encouragement so you can have a sense of achievement 
There is no doubt I would like to build it myself to know that "I did it" but the primary aim is to save money if possible, without cutting off my nose to spite my face of course  :Smilie:  
>>Build it out of reclaimed/recycled timber and make something you are proud of 
Is there particular wood/s I should be gunning for?  I like the idea of a solid timber kitchen providing it doesn't kill the budget (that I haven't even worked out yet...)

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## Zedd

If you're taking the recycle road you cant be too choosy about which timber to use!!! <grin>... 
Go the Tassie Oak or Mountain Ash if you can find/afford it.. good light colours with dulcid unpretentious grain patterns and hard like a sumvabitch (good wearing). 
you could do like that cook jaime oliver does on his tv kitchen and make a solid laminated top from a good quality timber and use the whole bench surface as a chopping board - I personally dont like this as you gotta look at buggered up grain and stuff collects in the cuts but its very functional - it also gives you an excuse to buy a belt sander "Honey look what you 've done to the bench top, I'll have to sand this clean again!"

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## Toasty

Just found www.ourkitchen.com.au which does flat packs and I have to admit the ease of the system looks pretty hard to beat.  Just playing around I racked up $4,000 in componants pretty quickly and I think I could add another $1,000 to that with very little effort and that is *not* including benchtops.  For what they are they _seem_ expensive, but for the ease of the system it would appear that the flat packs are a way to go (short of paying someone to do it all for you). 
Anyway just for example to the costs: 
Two door floor cupboard 1000mm wide x 720mm high x 560mm deep = $377.00 (doesn't include benchtop)
Two door wall cupboard 1000mm wide 720mm high x 296mm deep = $351.00
(both come with doors and fastners and pretty moulding, no kick plates though) 
From the instruction sheet on their site it just looks like zip zip zip with a cordless drill and the things are in one piece. 
It's a starting point with costs I guess, I'll just have to compare how they do against other systems.  Then I would need to compare just how much wood I would require to build it from scratch.  Naturally if I did build from scratch there is a massive time componant I would have to allow for, but I don't count my out of work hours in $'s so it is pretty moot.   
I guess I would need to work out if I can come in under $5,000 for materials and the tools I would need to buy to do it myself.  Benchtop would be extra in that estimation too. 
Can anyone recomend any good books on kitchen building?

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## Sturdee

Fifteen years ago I was in the same situation as you are.  
I had a Triton workcentre and the old extension table and wanted to do renovate the kitchen.  
We worked out a sketch plan and obtained quotes from three kitchen companies to build them in melamine. 
Cheapest quote $ 21,000.  I built them myself, it took three month of every spare minute of my time and the cost of materials was $ 3,500. Just be carefull where you purchase your materials from. 
The savings has paid for every tool purchase since. 
My advice is, if you are reasonable handy, go for it. 
Regards, 
Peter

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## joez

Toasty, 
You can checkout: http://www.cabinetmaking.com for some books on Kitchen/Cabinet Making.  
I have "Building Cabinet Doors and Drawers" and found it pretty helpful. You can order direct from Danny Proulx or from somewhere like Amazon. 
If your going to design the Kitchen yourself also checkout http://www.ecabinetsystems.com if you register with them as a kitchen builder they will send you out a cabinet design program. Once you drawup your kitchen it can generate your cut lists and show you the layouts when cutting 8x4ft sheets. 
Joe

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## Toasty

Verrrrry interesting. 
With OurKitchen you can buy the flat pack units with or without doors.  My earlier price of the 1000mm wide two door floor cabinate is roughly $150 *without* doors (and assuming no door hardware either).  At a guess that could halve the cost from them and then I would only have to make my own doors which can be any style colour fashion I like... 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 
Thanks for the link too, *Joe* looks interesting.

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## Iain

Allboards in Hallam (if you are in Vic) have prefab kitched cupboards that start at $78.
Thats a 560 high by 300 wide, no plinth, door or top but all parts are avaiable with a few obscure sizes to make up the width of the kitchen.
Pantries and overheads are also available.

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## Al Burdon

About three years ago I built my kitchen.  I searched the internet for a book on the standard dimensions and found a Canadian guy who wrote  one.  I bought the book and set about designing my kitchen.  Sink, stove and range hood about $ 3K Aust. , melamine for carcases around 400 dollars,  Jarah floorboards for bench tops about 300,  hinges handles etc 400 dollars,  Pine and KDH for doors and face frame about 300.  Plus finish sandpaper etc.  
Basically it cost more for the appliances than the cabinetry. If you wish to more electrical , plumbing etc then plan it first and get it done by a pro when you rip out the old stuff.  Time wise about a month of weekends and nights to build all the bits.  About a week to do the actual makeover.   Just take it easy and measure twice and cut once.  The wife loves it and brags at every opertunity.  
If you have any question just drop a line  
Al

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## re do 4 u

you could check-out the auctions. they often have unclaimed orders, old display stock etc. even if you only buy the boxes and make the doors and drawer fronts and benchtops. 
the other way is to buy a second hand kitchen. friends of mine ripped out a kitchen that was only 12 months old when they moved house. they sold the appliances but just smashed the cabinets up and took them to the tip. you might have to buy more than you need so you can mix & match to get the right sizes, but it can be done. 
good luck.

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## Jigsaw

I have just purchased a Flat Pack Kitchen and it has cost me about $4,000 for around 7.5 metres of floor cupboards and 2 metres of wall cupboards including 2 pack doors, plinths, fill panels and laminated benchtops. Carcasses can be made to an exact measurement e.g 734mm wide not  just nominal sizes. All screws, hinges etc are provided. I toyed with the idea of making them on the Triton but decided it was not worth the expense and time.
The base price of a carcas 865mm high, 600mm wide and 550mm deep is about $70. It has solid sides, top, bottom and back and shelf.  I bought  my kitchen from Verna Doors in Campbellfield. Great company to deal with.

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## Blue Wren

Haven't heard what the little woman wants.  Does she have a preference?  After all she is the one who has to use it, unless you like to be chef.  You most probably will score extra brownie points from F-I-L if you make it yourself! 
I know hubby built me a kitchen out of tassie oak with laminated brushbox benchtops.  Put in a heat pad to stand hot pots on. Looked good and worked a treat.  Since moved and will have to start again, when we get to that end of the house.

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## MF3106

Hi 
I recently renovated our laundry to the standard of a fitted kitchen (hoping that I will then be allowed next to do the kitchen next). 
I considered using flatpacks, but in my opinion having the units cut to size and edged by a company such as Allboards will work out significantly cheaper. 
I also own a Triton 2000 but did not consider this a viable option as I did not want to be handling 8 x 4 sheets and besides chipping and edging would be issues I'd rather not deal with. 
Roughly hear is how my costs broke down :Redface:  
Board cost			$220
Cutting				$120
Edging				$170
2 metre laminate benchtop	                $200
Wire baskets			$100
Handles			                $  50
Sundries			                $100
TOTAL				$960 
The doors/drawers were plain simple white melamine - that's what my wife wanted. So you'll have to factor in the incremental cost of more exotic fronts. Doors and filler panels were edged with 2mm vinyl - internals with 1mm vinyl. We put on some really nice handles and youd be surprised how good they look as opposed to putting on cheap crappy plastic knobs.  
To give you an idea  a 900mm base unit (carcass only) flatpack will cost about $110, and the design principles are pretty simple. If you want further info for a sample unit let me know. 
I looked around a few kitchen places to get ideas before going into it, and one vendor gave me a benchmark for their kitchen of $550 per metre for a base unit $500 per metre for a wall unit  fitting and bench tops extra. Our laundry units measure 2 metres wall & metres base units. 
My wife is really please with it, and all modesty apart you would not be able to tell that it had not been designed and fitted professionally. 
Hope this helps.

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## Jigsaw

I also gutted my laundry and re-built it about 3 years ago using the flat pack system. It was a trial run before I tackled the Kitchen. I wanted to see how successful the flat pack system was before  I used it for a Kitchen which is on display all of the time. I also bought this system from Verna Doors.  The doors I chose for the Laundry were yellow melamine with square edges on the doors. The square edges tends to chip a bit when abused by the kids. I would go for round edges next time.

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## KBnLink

Hey, this is the reason I joined this forum - excellent pros and cons based on different ppls perspectives. No bitching. Great stuff. 
Oh, yeah, I am looking at a new kitchen soon :Smilie:

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## Marc

Before venturing in buying a flat pack or DIY. I would also ask around for quotes.
I had a look at a v/nice looking tassie oak kitchen, and the price fully installed including everything but the appliances was $500 a lineal meter. If you buy a flat pack it must be substantialy less than that or you will be working for peenuts.

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