# Forum Home Renovation Pergolas, Gazebos, Strombellas & Rotundas  Pergola beam bolted to brickwall of house.

## JK200SX

Hi everyone. This s my first post n ths forum and have been reading up a lot on the forum. 
I'm n the process of puttng together a plan for submisson to council for a Pergola n our back yard. 
The Pergola will be attached to the house, on an existng slab that is originally n place (the slab is separate to that of the house foundation.) The pergola wll be a flat roof variety with the long dimenson along the house beng 8m andextending outwards  (ie rafters) by 4.65m. 'm clear wth the span tables, dimensonng etc, but my quesiton revolves around the attachment of the pergola against the house! The roof wll be typical colorbond/zincalume, wth a couple of polycarb sheets for lght to the door and wndow. 
The wall that the pergola will attach to the house wll be a wall that is made of brick veneer and it is a double storey wall. Along the 8 metre length there s a 3.6m opening for a sliding door (ie fixed/sliding/fixed) and a 1.8 m wide window. The plan is to have the ledger beam mounted to the bricks on a brick coarse about 6 bricks above these openings. The brickwork then continues up the second storey of the building. The wall is North facing.  *Will this be a problem as an attachment method to the house?  * Would this cause an issue with the bricks/mortar, ie cracking etc. I was also thnkng of using screwbolts for the attachment. Initially  was thin thinkng of having posts on the side where the ledger beam is, ie a post could be attached to the concrete below, then attached to the house brckwork wth suitable attachment and then the beam would be attached to the brckwork via its own screws and also attached to the posts. But this would probably cause more problems to the brickwork because the post would be attached to the ground on a slab that is not pinned to the house slab and any vertical movement between the 2 slabs here could cause more of a problem. 
Thanks, 
JK

----------


## Ken-67

As long as the brickwork is sound, there would be no problem in bolting you ledger directly to the wall.

----------


## JK200SX

Thanks for the reply. There is only one hairlne crack in the mortar above the window, ie where the lintel is and steps up across the mortar up one brick. I presume that should be ok since I'll be putting the ledger beam up 6 rows from there? 
Also, I was looking at varous timbers (ie F17) grade to use and I'm tossng up between LVL and F17 hardwood. s one of them stronger than the other for a given size (I'll be using 140x 45 for the 4650 long rafters)? Also how do they both compare when t comes to weght? Is there a table that shows the weight per length or a density that I can use to calculate it myself? 
Also, the roof pitch will be about 1-1.5 degrees. Can anyone recommend a suitable colourbond profle? 
Thanks again. 
JK

----------


## stevoh741

> Also, the roof pitch will be about 1-1.5 degrees. Can anyone recommend a suitable colourbond profle? 
> Thanks again. 
> JK

  You cant use colourbond under 5degrees. You will need to use trimdeck for anything down to 1 degree but I personally wouldn't go that flat!

----------


## JK200SX

What would be the problem going down to 1-2 degree pitch? Profiles like dualclad from Robot trading o r TL-5 from fielders. The reason I'm trying to hold the pitch down is that the wife wants the pergola area to eventually become an alfresco area and its important that the underside of the structure is flat rather than angled for the desired look.

----------


## ringtail

I must admit, I'm not a fan of flat roofs either. I dont like the look and the water shedding ability - but thats just me. Regarding the rest of the plan, fixing to the brick is ok but chemset only IMO. I would also suggest you will need bigger rafters to clearspan 4.7 mt with a tin roof. The closest I get is 170 x 45 LVL with 200 x 45 LVL being preferred. You can go 190 x 45 in pine MGP 12 or 200 x 50 in F14. F17 KD hardwood is not a durable product and cant be used outside so you would have to use unseasoned F17 witrh the smallest size been 250 x 25 which is not wide enough to take batten screws IMO. You could go F14 but some of it is pretty rough looking. IMO LVL's are the way to go. They are much lighter than HWD, fully treated H3, long and perfect, and cheaper than HWD. My 2 cents.

----------


## boo

> As long as the brickwork is sound, there would be no problem in bolting you ledger directly to the wall.

  I'm not so sure about this. Brick veneer is not primarily considered structural. Anyone else agree? 
Obviously bricks compression strength is enormous, so it wouldnt fall down, but you would have to ensure that the structure could withstand force horizontally away from the house. Over time the mortar cracks, and conceivably could pull out the bricks sideways. 
While thats still not very likely, you could prevent this by making sure that the posts on the side away from the wall are concrete footed right down into the earth. 
If you could somehow tie it to the house frame in a few places as well it would be even better  :Smilie:

----------


## JK200SX

> fixing to the brick is ok but chemset only IMO. .

  
I presume that screwbolts don't particularly stress the brick compared to a dynabolt. Also because  am using 150mm long screwbolts, I will be attaching to the back face of the brick too - which would probably be better than a chemset?

----------


## ringtail

Anything that puts expansive type of pressure on brick work is bad news IMO, hence the chemset. What do you mean by fixing to the back face of the brick ? Ive never seen a screw bolt with a nut

----------


## JK200SX

What I mean by "fixing to the back", I mean that the screwbolt will reach to the back of the brick. 
Is there any problems in using screwbolts?

----------


## ringtail

In the right application they are fine. You have to remember what you are screwing to. Bricks are just clay, not concrete. They are fragile and very brittle and can be destroyed just by drilling into them with too much gusto. The screw bolts cut their own thread and you only get one shot at it. If you are set on using them get some spare bricks the same as yours and do some tests before drilling into the house.

----------


## JK200SX

Thanks for the reply. I've used screwbolts many times before and haven't had problems, but  should perhaps look nto the chemset option? Is a chemset as strong as a screwbolt or dynabolt? What about the chemical adhesive - is it suitable for sideways load? as I've omly seen chemsets used for vertical applications. Also, if  use a chemset, do I leave the threadwd bar resting at the bottom of the hole while it cures, or should it be held in the middle?

----------


## ringtail

The chemset, I have been told ( but have never read data) is far stronger than both dyna bolts and screw bolts but do some research.The hole must be ultra clean ( blown out with compressed air) You squirt the chemical into the hole (from the bottom of the hole) slowly withdrawing the nozzle then quickly insert the stud using a screwing motion so you dont force the chemical back out of the hole. Some will naturally come out as it is displaced by the stud but the stud will generally stay where it is inserted ( in the middle) Just make sure you leave enough hanging out for the timber. Drill a bigger hole in the timber than required so you have some leeway and use 50 mm square gal washers. Ive built quite a few decks 3 mt from the ground where a ledger is to attached to blockwork or concrete and in all cases chemset has been specified to anchor the ledger. Ive used them in bricks heaps too and always had go results as the load is taken by the stud and not so much by the brick if you get my drift. Although the load is ultimately transfered to the brick you are not relying on the brick to cope with the load and the stresses of the fixing itself.

----------


## BLWNHR

> You cant use colourbond under 5degrees. You will need to use trimdeck for anything down to 1 degree but I personally wouldn't go that flat!

  Correction, you can't use CUSTOM-ORB under 5-degrees. Colorbond is a metal coating by BlueScope and is available for many different roof cladding profiles as well as gutters, fascias, flashings et al.  
Also +1 for Chemset anchors into brickwork. I also agree with the loading on a vaneer wall. You're relying on your brick ties quite heavily.

----------


## stevoh741

> Correction, you can't use CUSTOM-ORB under 5-degrees. Colorbond is a metal coating by BlueScope and is available for many different roof cladding profiles as well as gutters, fascias, flashings et al.

  Yes you are correct however I'd had a few beers and should have typed corrugated however I figured everyone got the drift....not really the line that this thread is about but thanks for your correction.....

----------


## Ken-67

> I also agree with the loading on a vaneer wall. You're relying on your brick ties quite heavily.

   Bearing in mind the pull load is spread along a fair number of ties; and if the front posts are set properly, there should be minimum pull on the ledger, anyway.

----------


## jiggy

> What would be the problem going down to 1-2 degree pitch? Profiles like dualclad from Robot trading o r TL-5 from fielders. The reason I'm trying to hold the pitch down is that the wife wants the pergola area to eventually become an alfresco area and its important that the underside of the structure is flat rather than angled for the desired look.

   Are you going to be sheeting the underside of the Pergola? Not sure about the span tables , might be worth checking whether 140 mm will be thick enough over 4650 mm span to carry the extra weight

----------


## Ken-67

140 will not be enough for the span. You will need to go to !90.

----------


## ringtail

I came up with 170 x 45 lvl with no ceiling and 200 x 45 the preferred option

----------


## r3nov8or

> What would be the problem going down to 1-2 degree pitch? Profiles like dualclad from Robot trading o r TL-5 from fielders. The reason I'm trying to hold the pitch down is that the wife wants the pergola area to eventually become an alfresco area and its important that the underside of the structure is flat rather than angled for the desired look.

  A flat ceiling won't 'feel' flat unless it's, well, actually flat. Couple of options if you want a flat ceiling look on a skillion with a slight fall: 1, install the rafters flat and use increasing roof batten heights to create the fall for the roof. 2, install the rafters at the fall you need for the roof and 'hang' the (future) ceiling from increasing sized ceiling battens. Option 1 is pretty easy. Haven't tried option 2.

----------


## Ken-67

> I came up with 170 x 45 lvl with no ceiling and 200 x 45 the preferred option

  I agree with the 170, but, for reasons I've never understood the logic of, 170 is not a standard size in pine unless you go laminated, So, unless overall hight is critical, its not worth ripping down a 190.

----------

