# Forum Home Renovation Brickwork  masonry glue query

## Moondog55

Cecile and I want to build a proper BBQ 
Not being a good bricklayer I am interested in laying up the concrete blocks for the surround and framework to hold the firebricks using a glue, but I have not yeat found a dedicated block laying glue in my searching.
I'm asking as a shortcut to doing more research; laziness on my part is all. 
Googling showed no dedicated masonry glue just advice to use builders adhesive will won't handle the heat I expect will be developed

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## Moondog55

I just got an email from Selleys
They recommend "Liquid nails Platinum" any body any experience with this product

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## PeteV

do you mean mortar? generally when laying blocks we use a stiffer version of brick "mud". then use fire clay on the fire bricks. hope this helps...

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## Belair_Boy

G'day Moondog 
Have you thought about using mortarless concrete blocks.
I am using them for my chimney and have just used them in an outdoor kitchen/BBQ/brick oven.  http://www.renovateforum.com/f210/pi...uilding-96517/ 
They have a plastic spacer that holds adjacent blocks together and positions the next layer blocks.  There is even a little plastic wedge provided to keep things plumb.  Once you have built your wall you fill it with concrete and it becomes a solid wall.   Form Block NSW pp

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## Moondog55

No BB I hadn't
I could mix a batch of mud and make do but I got the idea when watching "Grand designs" concrete block was ready to go in 12 hours and stronger than mortar as well as being more flexible, this should just be a frame to hold the firebricks in place, I am going to base the size on the biggest pre-made slabs I can find rather than make a frame and pour concrete 
PeteV 
I have used plain bricks before and have used kaolin mixed with the cement for the base but I have never heard of any-one using fire-clay over the top of firebricks, why so?? 
I figure not much is going to get thru 120mm of alumina firebrick so I was going to lay them dry where in Geelong sells fire-clay BTW??

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## racingtadpole

Id be a bit concerned that glueing bricks together with glue might release toxic fumes into the food once it got warm.

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## Moondog55

So would I but apparently not a problem, also the besser blocks will not be getting that hot, the firebricks are a reasonable barrier to heat flow, and if I do as PeteV suggests there will be even more.
That being said I have just started to wonder about all the additives they put into mortar these days, most of those are similar sort of plastics to those found in glues I imagine.

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## cherub65

why don't you use hebels, you can use adhesive and glue together.

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## Belair_Boy

If I remember correctly, I think you will find Hebel thin bed adhesive is just fine sand and cement.
It is the precision of the Hebel blocks that allow such thin joints.
You could use Hebel power panel, much lighter than concrete slabs and can be as large as 600 x 6000

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## Moondog55

B-B enlighten; I don't know what a Hebel "Power Panel" is
I think we want the BBQ to be 600 * 900, a large standard paver as the base about $30-

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## cherub65

For a BBQ Blocks would be easier, First course laid with mortar unless perfectly flat base exist, then use adhesive with small notched trowel (sand cement not recommended for joints).
Have seen tile adhesive used with success.

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## Belair_Boy

> B-B enlighten; I don't know what a Hebel "Power Panel" is

  Hebel Power Panel is a autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC) sheet with a steel wire reinforcing inside.  It is 75mm thick, 600mm (or 300mm) wide and comes in a variety of lengths from 1.2 - 3 m.  It is usually used as an external cladding system where the panels are fixed vertically to a top hat section secured to the building frame. 
It can be used in other ways and DIYers have been very creative with it.  I am using cut down and profiled Power Panel for some window sills and my bother in law used it to build a BBQ.  He cut the panel to make 4 uprights, some back panels and 3 top sections resulting in 3 "cupboard" like spaces, a setdown section in the middle for the BBQ and a bench each side. The tops and splash back were tiled to protect the Hebel and the rest rendered. 
I would not recommend using sand and cement as the adhesive, just letting you know what makes it up and hence there should be no risk from toxic fumes. 
If you are really interested I could post a photo of some Power Panel

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## Moondog55

OK reinforced Hebel makes excellent sense; how is it normally cut?/ I imagine the Hebel saw will not cut though the wire rod. Big Green Shed here sells Hebel but not the "Power panel"
What ever we use will be the cheapest option. last time we looked the hollow concrete blocks were  $2.88 each and we need to go 3 high then the surround. 
When we have a BBQ it is almost always a wood and charcoal fire, that's why the firebricks

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## Belair_Boy

You are correct, the Hebel saw will not cut through the wire reinforcing but an 100mm angle grinder disc is just big enough to reach them. I have a 125mm Makita "dustless" circular saw with a diamond blade that makes light work of the wires and I then use an old hand saw to cut through the last bit of Hebel.  A bigger circular saw with the correct blade would be able to cut the Power Panel in a single pass.
I have never had to buy any Power Panel as I have always been able to scrounge leftover or broken panels from my brother in law.  If there is any new Hebel building going on near you I am sure a slab of beer will get you enough for a big BBQ.
The Hebel would be a good insulation layer on the outside of your fire bricks.  I am thinking about using a Hebel Block layer on the outside of my pizza oven for that reason.

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## PeteV

hey moondog,
you can get fire clay from barry medews in geelong, you may be able to get it from danly's too. fire clay is a heat resistant mortar that won't shrink or crack with heat. you're supposed to lay fire bricks with it. but because of the cost of fireclay, a lot of people use a blend of normal mortar and fire clay. hebel power panel can be purchased from better bricks and pavers on west fyans st in newtown if your looking for it. i personally believe the besser blocks would be your cheaper option though. there is generally a special glue that you use with hebel, it generally comes with it and you mix it with a stirrer bit in a big drill. we usually cut it with a circular saw (old blade) this cuts through it like butter. it does go through the wire too, but it will stuff the blade hence using an old one!
hope this helps!

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## Moondog55

is fireclay the same as mortar cream that was added to the mortar mix in the old days to sparge the inside of chimneys?? 
I know that as powdered kaolin

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## PeteV

i'm not sure as i've never heard the term mortar cream, but i think what you're refering to is plasticiser. it "softens" the mortar and makes it more smooth and workable. it comes in many forms including liquid and powder. a little known substitute is dishwashing liquid! and it makes the mud smell nice!!! fireclay is different again, it's like a really sticky mortar that has a consistency similar to cake mix.  comes in a bag form where you just add water.

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## Moondog55

I think you would have to be over 60 to remember the term "Mortar cream"
Totally different to the plasticizers sold today which work by encouraging bubble ( foam ) formation and trapping air in the mix
I am familiar with "Densecrete" which is a premixed heat resistant concrete mix
But I am going to ring Danlys and check on the product they sell 
As for using a clay under the fire bricks again I ask why?/ i would have thought that it would just make removing the firebricks more difficult and just using a clay base would have been better, as i understand it a clay base is good to around 1200C but these fire bricks are rated to around 1650C and i don't think a wood fire gets quite that hot

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## PeteV

you use the fireclay to lay the fire bricks. eg. buttering and bedding. makes for a better joint than butt joining firebricks together. i'm assuming you are using full size fire bricks? try medews 52223161. they are another bricklaying trade outlet.

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