# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Waterproofing around Tap penetrations?...

## Batpig

Assorted Colleagues-in-Chaos  :Biggrin: , 
The title of this thread probably sounds quite familiar, but I was only able to find one Thread (started late in '07 by the intrepid Gooner  :Wink: ) that actually deals with the topic...  
Anyhow, the crux of the matter is this: With a cement-sheeted Shower Recess, is there any type of proprietary Flange of some sort available that somehow slips over your Tap Sockets to seal up the little holes in the sheeting that the Tap Sockets poke through? 
It could be plastic, or it could be rubber... It could be permanent, or it could be removable... Maybe you set it in place around the Sockets with Silicon... You tell me... :Confused: 
(In other words, I didn't think to ask those Crusty-Old-Chin-Waggers in at the Trade-Counter at K&R when I was down there on Friday... :Redface: ) 
Many Thanks,
Batpig.

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## Pulse

can't remember where I saw it but the waterproofing diagrams suggested filling the gap between the sheet and the plumbing with polyurethane sealant and then continuing the waterproof membrane onto the pipes. 
cheers
Pulse

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## Gaza

plastic thing, then membrane over this, when installing fixture plumber to seal all around with silcone.

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## Batpig

Dear Pulse, 
Thanks for the reply. JH's "Wet Area Construction - Application Guide", and CSR's "Wet Area Systems" both feature diagrams for Tap-penetrations that indicate the use of flexible sealant, but neither calls up any sort of backing-Flange against which to caulk. The diagram in the said JH guide refers to a "Foam Backing Rod", but I don't relish the prospect of trying to squeeze that in and around what is really only a 6mm wide perch (ie. the thickness of the sheet...). Surely someone's doing some sort of half-clever Backing-Flange... :Frown:  
Anyhow - on a slightly different tack - I've just noticed that the actual Tap Sockets in question (on the new Combo that I'm going to put in) are awfully short. Have a look at this photo:   
So with only 12mm or so up your sleeve, you're supposed to get these things through your sheeting with enough protrusion left over to allow caulking and waterproofing... :Confused: ... Are they all only this long, fellas?... :No:  
Many Thanks,
Batpig.

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## Smurf

> With a cement-sheeted Shower Recess...

  Just pointing out that if this cement sheeting is from the 1980's or earlier then it will contain asbestos. No problems if it's newer than that however.  :Smilie:

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## an3_bolt

Re Flanges: perhaps something like this: Waterbar Tap Penetration Flange Total Water Proofing Supplies - Products 
I even recall seeing some green ones in Bunnings the other day.   

> Are they all only this long, fellas?

   :Eek:  :Eek:  
Not mine - sometimes I am just amazed at how big it really is........ ha ha ha.......it is called a spindle extension. :2thumbsup:  
Hope I am not leading you astray...

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## Gooner

Intrepid hey... May have to change my name on this forum to "The Intrepid Gooner"... 
Anyways,.. I pondered this question in the final stages of my ensuite reno and then decided just to silicone around the tap penetrations. When I waterproofed, I used some waterproofed-saturated polyester cloth over the silicone for extra protection. Then after I tiled, I filed it up again with silicone. So silicone, waterpfoofed cloth, silicone again. 
After the fact, I findout they do sell proper flanges. But I still think using just silicone it good enough.  
See here as well.. Waterbar Tap Penetration Flange 
EDIT: Hey!! Post above stole my link.  :Smilie:

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## Gaza

> Intrepid hey... May have to change my name on this forum to "The Intrepid Gooner"... 
> Anyways,.. I pondered this question in the final stages of my ensuite reno and then decided just to silicone around the tap penetrations. When I waterproofed, I used some waterproofed-saturated polyester cloth over the silicone for extra protection. Then after I tiled, I filed it up again with silicone. So silicone, waterpfoofed cloth, silicone again. 
> After the fact, I findout they do sell proper flanges. But I still think using just silicone it good enough.  
> See here as well.. Waterbar Tap Penetration Flange 
> EDIT: Hey!! Post above stole my link.

  thats thing i was talking about...

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## Batpig

Dear Guys,  

> Just pointing out that if this cement sheeting is from the 1980's or earlier then it will contain asbestos...

   :Cool: ..... :Confused: ..... :Eek:  :Eek:  :Eek:  _AWWW NOOOOOO!!! - I'MMM STUFFFFED!!!_  
Oh, hang on; I just remembered - I've got that covered... :Wink:      

> ...sometimes I am just amazed at how big it really is........ ha ha ha.......it is called a spindle extension.

  Hmmm - Nice little money-spinner! Made by the same crowd who make the Combinations no doubt! (in best "Sean Connery 007 talking to Plenty O'Toole" voice... :Wink: ) 
Thank-you also to Gaza and "The Intrepid Gooner"... :2thumbsup: . I will keep my eyes peeled for those Flanges in the course of my travels. They wouldn't want to be very thick if they're getting fixed to the front of the sheeting... :No:  
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## Animalector

Hey I tried tradelink and Reese for those flanges..  they didn't stock them.  ONe shop I went to had one (ie ..1) as a demo but they weren't able to sell me any at the time.  so like gooner I just siliconed the gap and waterproofed up to it, then filled the tile hole again with silicone.. 
I plan to do this again very soon in the bathroom.. 
Andy

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## Batpig

Dear Animal-L, 
Thanks - I'll probably go shopping today to see what's out there, without holding my breath... 
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## Batpig

Dear Chaps,  

> I'll probably go shopping today to see what's out there, without holding my breath...

  Well, lucky I didn't hold my cotton-pickin' breath after all, cos' there's _nuthin'_ out there in the shops I tell ya'!... *NUTHIN!!!...* 
We actually know more here about Waterproofing than what "they" do behind the Trade-Counters... :Confused:   
Oh well... Copious amounts of caulking it is, then... :Redface:  
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## Gooner

yep.. found the same thing myself.

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## robinh

both Mitre 10 shops around my area stock them.
Look in the plumbing bits section where the 'Handi Bits' blister packs of washers, cistern bits, o-rings etc are.
-r

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## murray44

Does all this ad-hoc silicone go over the spindle or just the base? What happens when you need to change a washer, or do you bung it full of silicone again?

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## Batpig

Dear Murray,  

> Does all this ad-hoc silicone go over the spindle or just the base?

  No - just the Base (or Breech, as they call it...). You attach the Combo to the front of Noggings which you run between the Studs in your wall. The front face of the Noggings should sit back from the front face of the Studs by about 35mm, in order to both give the Villaboard enough space to run across the front of the Combo, whilst still allowing the Bases/Breeches/Sockets to be able to be poke out through the front of it (the Villaboard, that is...) If you're in a Brick-Veneer house, this should make sense (Let us know if it doesn't... :Cool: ) 
Best Wishes,
Batpig. 
P.S. Thanks for the suggestion RobinH. There's not too many of the little guys around me, but I know the "carded" stuff of which you talk, so I'll keep my eyes peeled...

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## Batpig

Nothing sensational Chaps, but I thought I'd show you a photo (sorry about the low light... :Redface: ) of the "Home-Mades" that I knocked up out of some of that bluddy "suicide" packaging plastic that hardware purchases seem to all come in nowadays:   
The holes were made through the centre of each piece of plastic with 1/8" pilot holes, followed by a 1/2" twist-bit, which were then followed by a fairly large Router Bit shoved into the Drill (You have to be careful when you get all the way through with the Router Bit, because it can grab that rotten sharp plastic and spin it around quickly enough to possibly cut the veins in the wrist of your free hand... :Frown: ). Anyhow, you aim at making a hole slightly smaller than the 30.5mm diameter of the Breeches, and then snip eight or so equally-spaced "radial" slots into it that will allow it to expand enough to slip over the Breech onto some silicon that you caulked onto the rear half of the Breech beforehand. 
When it's all dry, you can then fix your Villaboard/Ceminseal in place, and pump the now-backed gap around the Breeches with either caulked Silicon, or caulked Polyurethane should you then want to surround each penetration with a circle of Waterproofing Membrane such as what I've done in the photo below (but which is not a requirement of the Wet Area Waterproofing Code...). If you look closely at the photo, you can _just_ make out the lumpiness of the caulked Polyurethane around the penetrations under the brushed-on Waterproofing Membrane (Silly Me forgot to take an "in-between" photo... :Blush7: ):   
Thanks again and Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## walker.cycling

The holes were made through the centre of each piece of plastic with 1/8" pilot holes, followed by a 1/2" twist-bit, which were then followed by a fairly large Router Bit shoved into the Drill (You have to be careful when you get all the way through with the Router Bit, because it can grab that rotten sharp plastic and spin it around quickly enough to possibly cut the veins in the wrist of your free hand... :Frown: ). Anyhow, you aim at making a hole slightly smaller than the 30.5mm diameter of the Breeches, and then snip eight or so equally-spaced "radial" slots into it that will allow it to expand enough to slip over the Breech onto some silicon that you caulked onto the rear half of the Breech beforehand. 
When it's all dry, you can then fix your Villaboard/Ceminseal in place, and pump the now-backed gap around the Breeches with either caulked Silicon, or caulked Polyurethane should you then want to surround each penetration with a circle of Waterproofing Membrane such as what I've done in the photo below (but which is not a requirement of the Wet Area Waterproofing Code...). If you look closely at the photo, you can _just_ make out the lumpiness of the caulked Polyurethane around the penetrations under the brushed-on Waterproofing Membrane (Silly Me forgot to take an "in-between" photo... :Blush7: ):   
Thanks again and Best Wishes,
Batpig.[/quote] 
Wow, thats a pretty good job.  :2thumbsup:  :2thumbsup:  
I am about to do the same and wondering how you managed to get the drill holes so accurate to start with. Are you good with the tape measure or is there a trick. My tap heights are approx 900mm (at work and these figures are merely numbers I "think" are right) and 1800mm. I have just done the hand basin which is conceled and I had some problems with lining holes up. 
Any advice or tips would be appreciated.
Regards

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## Batpig

Dear Walker, 
There's no foolproof tricks I'm afraid, and I'm not as good with the tape measure as it might appear  :Redface: . 
You simply take offset measurements to the centre of the sockets at right-angles to one another and then cut through the sheet with holesaws; 38mm diameter at the taps, and 25mm at the threaded outlet(s). Use Tungsten-Grit holesaws, because they will do the job through both your cement-sheeting and your tiles, whereas Diamond-Grit - whilst good for tiles - is just too fine for the cement sheeting and will simply clog-up on you with cement slurry. 
Then - when despite your best efforts you still manage to get the hole positions slightly wrong (such as I did  :Frown: ) - use a cylindrical Carbide-Burr (meant for a Die Grinder but mounted in your Drill) to slightly enlarge the holes where necessary, so that your sheeting will happily fit over the sockets with about 4mm clearance to spare (ie. enough for a decent bead of caulked polyurethane...) Don't enlarge the entire hole - just the sides of it that need removing to get the sheet on over the tap-sockets. Use a large-diameter straight-cylindrical Burr with the coarse tooth-pattern (ie. the style meant for grinding aluminium) as opposed to the fine tooth-pattern (which is the style meant for steel). The "coarse" version will clog-up less on you than will the "fine" style. TradeTools sell both types, and singly at that (as opposed to a whole kit). 
Good Luck,
Batpig.

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## Bedford

As far as marking the holes go, I've had success by coating the outlets with something that will transfer the location to the back of the sheet. Have even used an old lipstick, just make sure you don't leave it in your tool box when your mates are around! :Biggrin:

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## walker.cycling

Thanks alot, I have just raided one of the wifes lipsticks (would have been cheaper buying one as now she wants a replacement) and then off to trade tools. I will let you know how I go.

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