# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  Combatting Climate Change

## dazzler

HI all 
For those of who enjoy a good debate I am interested in others views on combatting climate change. 
This is not a debate about whether you believe that climate change is real or not. 
So here is the premise; 
Today you were elected as supreme leader of Australia (we became a dictatorship overnight so you hold all the power to make decisions that will be implemented).  Amazingly, at the same time, Dr Thankgodicanputanendtothedebate has come forward with irrefutable evidence that climate change is occurring and we need to reduce our carbon emissions. 
What would you implement?  *Please stick to the game and don,t debate yes or no, there is another thread to do that in.*

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## dazzler

Aussies by nature will fight against laws and taxes that are implemented that dont pass the 'makes good sense' or think it may be spin.  So for me an emissions trading scheme is not the way to go.  Its too hard to understand and because of politics will not be implemented correctly. 
Here are my ramblings;   :Wink:  
1. Plant trees, lots and lots of trees.  I would create a greens corp that is compulsory (like nashos) after you finish school and before you commence work. This would be paid and include education about the environment, would teach teamwork and other skills associated with the task (driving machinery, hand skills, computer skills, horticulture etc).  The aim would be to reforest oz as much as we can while still allowing agriculture etc.  So it needs to be done in a smart way using trees suitable for the particular area. 
2. Fix our water and salinity problem.  This would also be tied into the green corps particularly wrt salt tolerant plants in salinity effected areas. 
3. Move towards a more vegetarian diet.  I love meat, great slabs of bbq beef with lashings of bbq sauce.  However beef cattle and sheep produce a poor amount of food for the input and due to being hoofed are damaging to the natural environment. Cattle also produce lots of emissions. Slowly move to wallaby and kangaroo for meat production.  They are suited to the environment and are better for health.  
4.  Nuclear power.  Yes there are some issues with waste storage however we are talking of reducing carbon emissions and nuclear does this.    
5. All govt cars (and hire/taxis) will need to meet a stringent emissions/fuel ecomomy test (say less than 5l/100km and will slowly move to electric (powered by those lovely nukes).  (You would need exemptions for trucks etc) 
6. Fix our rail system to run on our lovely nukes including very fast trains to replace planes as our primary means of long distance travel.  Look to phase out plane travel (other than OS) over a reasonable period. Ban air travel by public servants for meetings unless there is a very specific reason to go otherwise use teleconferencing.  
7. Encourage electric vehicle use through rebates/low rego etc.  You could even charge the car up from home (nuke power) at a very reduced rate. 
8. New homes wherever possible are built in large factories and trucked to the location.  A modular approach to reduce the amount of vehicles travelling to build them on site.   
9. Promote hydroponics to grow food. This can be done in the cities and towns to reduce travel and damage to the environment.  Many farms will slowly be phased out sadly but many are in the death throws anyway and are bought by multinationals. 
Thats my ramblings anyway.  We do things that we can see and touch locally and that will change things for the future.

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## rrobor

I would have  "A Probe" nothing quite like a good probe to get to the bottom of things as HG says

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## chrisp

> 5. All govt cars (and hire/taxis) will need to meet a stringent emissions/fuel ecomomy test (say less than 5l/100km and will slowly move to electric (powered by those lovely nukes).  (You would need exemptions for trucks etc)

  Why restrict the idea to "Govt cars"? 
I'm sure as few tradies will be prepared to give up their HSV or turbo utes for a good cause.  :Smilie:

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## dazzler

> Why restrict the idea to "Govt cars"? 
> I'm sure as few tradies will be prepared to give up their HSV or turbo utes for a good cause.

  This makes Ford and Holden decide whether they want to come into the 21st century and make vehicles that are efficient.  They are very much reliant on govt sales.

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## autogenous

_I'm sure as few tradies will be prepared to give up their HSV or turbo utes for a good cause. _ Would you prefer more not so squeezybig trucks on the road and the associated emissions in the production of them having two vehicles on the bigger concrete driveway?
Tradies back tracking to work to meet at the house where a truck is kept then driving past their own home to get to work increasing emissions? 
If you wish to change the business model to the one in the UK expect to live in a terraced 2 bedroom house because that's all you'll afford at the cost.  :Wink 1:  
Actually many of the tradies in the UK drive huge mercedes vans where people drive to the place of the van then drive to work instead of driving direct. 
Would you prefer humongous high/long vans on the road? 
To me that looks very much like a deluded envy statement as many especially the older crew have 2WD diesel utes "if" they can with a trailer behind. 
Your proposal will actually increase total emissions.

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## autogenous

Ceiling insulation in all homes, which is being done 
A criteria established to reduce the ingress and egress of energy through glass whether that be glass thickness, double glazing, e-glass or some form of improvement to improve the insulation properties of a home. 
Its no good taxing people through increased energy costs if they cant afford to comply.  Rentals are a carbon disaster unless the land lord is given encouragement to improve appliance consumption, insulation improvement etc. 
Land Lords really don't give a poo about how much energy a property asset uses because they don't pay for it. The tenants have no control over the land lords energy hungry house. 
Improve public transport.  Australia's public transport is abysmal capacity wise and the state of the infrastructure. 
Put more freight back on rail instead of thousands of trucks overloading the road infrastructure and ruining it to boot?

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## dazzler

Hi auto, 
I usually agree with most of your thoughtful answers but this is a bit kneejerk and more in keeping with the other thread perhaps.  Maybe a hangover from reading all the mindless arguing perhaps  :Tongue:   :Smilie: . 
I have nothing against tradesman or builders, in fact I like them. But we do build houses in a very disorganised manner with people coming and going constantly and being at the whim of the weather and other deliveries.   
I think it could work.  Some clever design and architecture and you could easily build very efficient and very modern good looking houses.  Because these style of homes currently only cater to the lower end/holiday house market then of course they are not overly good to look at. 
Your statement that it would create more emissions is very strange.  To build a house the way we currently do it you have the builder and tradesman driving around much of the day from job site to job site, trucks delivering trusses, frames, gyprock, plumbing, roofing all at different times and to different places.  Thinking smarter, we could develop 'hubs' for industrial complexs where they are linked to light rail.  The whole modular house could be built within the complex and the only time any of it would hit the road would be on the final day when it heads down the road to the site to be assembled. 
Sure the tradesman would still have to travel to the factory and that would create emissions, but they could use public transport (of course it needs to be better) or my super efficient electric vehicles.  Why not subsidise the recharge on the vehicle at work to further entice people to use electric cars? 
I love designing houses in my spare time and have designed and contracted two.  I have been playing around with a modular concept for some time but lack the training to take to another level. Lets be real, a house is really only a collection of 'modules' anyway, we just need to be able to build them in a factory and click them together on site.  I am sure there people out there who could design amazing concepts.

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## chrisp

> Would you prefer more not so squeezybig trucks on the road and the associated emissions in the production of them having two vehicles on the bigger concrete driveway?

  Autogenous, 
I take it that you aren't into cars - or you don't know the high performance cars from the run of the mill cars? 
I did literally mean HSV and FPV utes.  Have a search for Maloo, HSV and FPV - all available with a 50% break!   :Smilie:

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## rrobor

Oh no Dazzler, Im old enough to remember this 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNSEbgt1Dg]YouTube - Malvina Reynolds - Little Boxes (Full Studio Version)[/ame]
Now I think its OK but I cant play it as Mr Bigpond cut my speed to snails pace till Tuesday
  Reminds me of Wallace and Gromet where they had made a pie machine and the chook saiid in best Yorkshire accent "I dont want to be a Pie." Well I dont want to be a battery chook.

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## Groggy

> Put more freight back on rail instead of thousands of trucks overloading the road infrastructure and ruining it to boot?

  The money for that was given away so people could buy plasma tvs.  :Doh:  
The inland railway and transhipment nodes were put forward to the government but ignored in favor of tellies.  :Cool:

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## dazzler

Yes you may be right, imagine having to live in this modular home; 
or this one; 
and this is how they are made;  Modular Home Central: A Resource for Modular Home Information 
and here is one going up; 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AslfV6rlW00&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Modular Home Being Constructed[/ame]
Maybe we can move on now.   :Smilie:

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## dazzler

> The money for that was given away so people could buy plasma tvs.  
> The inland railway and transhipment nodes were put forward to the government but ignored in favor of tellies.

  Dont forget you are now the 'leader' so do what you like, no living in the past man.  :Wink:

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## autogenous

_Your statement that it would create more emissions is very strange. To build a house the way we currently do it you have the builder and tradesman driving around much of the day from job site to job site, trucks delivering trusses, frames, gyprock, plumbing, roofing all at different times and to different places. Thinking smarter, we could develop 'hubs' for industrial complexs where they are linked to light rail. _ My comments were orientated at the current system which means many trades utilise a bigger car for multipurpose towing a trailer only when they need do. 
Modular is an interesting exercise though bylaws regarding plot size, orientation and are an issue especially in the case of having the house close to the boundary. 
In some cases its the lower building line a minimum 900 from the boundary then the top floor must have no adjacent windows to the neighbouring property.  Its a lot more complex than that but hopefully you get the picture. 
Carting houses built around on the back of trucks I would think poses a traffic nightmare in large quantities.  Its bad enough getting stuck behind a fibreglass swimming pool on the back of a truck. 
There is the other issue with the land consumed to build hundreds of homes instead of building them on the owners plot.  You'd be surprised many trades work with a supervisor within a set region.  Not many trades do multiple locations in a day and the ones that do maybe a plumber or electrician mostly which isn't every day on new homes.  Even then most of the Sparkies and plumbers I see have diesel vans. 
Its not quite as illustrious about the cash up bogans the media makes out.   
If you have an under powered vehicle it will chew more petrol.  Unfortunately cement mixers etc dont fit in your Hyundai excel although I have seen a mini moke towing a trailer which the department of transportation would consider highly illegal and a death trap.  _
I did literally mean HSV and FPV utes.  Have a search for Maloo, HSV and FPV - all available with a 50% break!_ 
Many trades that may do multiple jobs in a day travel in the same vehicle.  Scaffolders for instance may travel 5 in a commodore sedan.  Probably better than some office workers. 
The best way to find out is drive out to a housing  estate and find your Maloo.  It will be a very very small percentage.  Usually an apprentice living at home with his parents.

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## autogenous

I worked out I could save $50 per week in petrol in a retail job = $2000
In-house coffee instead of buying iced coffees = 2 per day x 300 x $3 = $1800
Insurance = $3000
Mobile phone = $1200
car mileage, tools, plant and equipment 
Less gross income but no business costs. The business costs and risks have sky rocketed over a decade. 
The cost savings were so great the biggest thing I have to worry about now is what I'm going to make for dinner but the same net income in the comfort of air conditioning. 
I think the big thing these days with emission reduction is the overall reduction isn't calculated.  In this case the large concrete wharehouses required to build the modular homes.

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## autogenous

Many modular homes are built in countries where there is high rainfall or snow.  This is a productivity thing.

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## Dr Freud

:Kneel suckers:  
As Supreme Leader, I would immediately begin the biggest military build-up ever seen in the history of humanity.  This must include both automated air and sea defence systems capable of repelling the Chinese, Indian, Indonesian and United States forces.  :Usaflag:   
Rationale? 
We humans have gone to war many times and killed millions of each other (and continue to do so) for very little reason, often under a hidden agenda.  If a cold country with a lot of territory above sea level decided to continue pumping GHG's out, while a warm country closer to sea level was facing annihilation, do you think the second country would keep politely asking them to stop?   :Smack:  
My guess is this would be a great reason for many old scores to be settled (think Israel emitting - Palestine suffering, India emitting - Pakistan suffering, South Korea emitting - North Korea suffering, Japan emitting - China suffering, Ethiopia emitting - Somalia suffering, USA emitting - pick any one suffering etc etc.).  The real reason will be the oldies and goodies such as religion, politics, land grab, minerals, etc, but what a great smokescreen.     :Russian roulette:  
As long as we could hold out long enough, global population decreases rapidly, accordingly emissions reduce rapidly, happy days Australia!   :Aussie3:

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## autogenous

_If a cold country with a lot of territory above sea level decided to continue pumping GHG's out, while a warm country closer to sea level was facing annihilation, do you think the second country would keep politely asking them to stop? _ Its not like the ocean hasn't been way above what it is now before.Waging war over sea level rise at the current and past 3 mm per year? 
Goooood Mooooooorning Vietnaaaam

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## Dr Freud

For those thinking I had gone a little loopy, I was just channeling the loopy left wing environmental movement.  Here is one of their patriarchs:  :Laugh bounce spin:   *The Prophet of Climate Change: James Lovelock*  *One of the most eminent scientists of our time says that global warming is irreversible  and that more than 6 billion people will perish by the end of the century*  Jeff Goodell Posted Nov 01, 2007 2:20 PM In Lovelock's view, the scale of the catastrophe that awaits us will soon become obvious. By 2020, droughts and other extreme weather will be commonplace. By 2040, the Sahara will be moving into Europe, and Berlin will be as hot as Baghdad. Atlanta will end up a kudzu jungle. Phoenix will become uninhabitable, as will parts of Beijing (desert), Miami (rising seas) and London (floods). Food shortages will drive millions of people north, raising political tensions. "The Chinese have nowhere to go but up into Siberia," Lovelock says. "How will the Russians feel about that? I fear that war between Russia and China is probably inevitable." With hardship and mass migrations will come epidemics, which are likely to kill millions. By 2100, Lovelock believes, the Earth's population will be culled from today's 6.6 billion to as few as 500 million, with most of the survivors living in the far latitudes -- Canada, Iceland, Scandinavia, the Arctic Basin. Read all about it here: *Books*  Lovelock, James (2000)      [1979]. _Gaia: A New Look at Life on Earth_ (3rd ed. ed.). Oxford      University Press. ISBN 0-19-286218-9. Lovelock, James; Michael      Allaby (1983). _Great Extinction_. Doubleday. ISBN 0-385-18011-X. Lovelock, James; Michael      Allaby (1984). _The Greening of Mars_. Warner Books. ISBN 0-446-32967-3. Lovelock, James (1995)      [1988]. _Ages of Gaia_. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-393-31239-9. Lovelock, James (2001) [Gaia      Books 1991]. _Gaia: The Practical Science of Planetary Medicine_.      Oxford University Press US. ISBN 0-19-521674-1. Lovelock, James (1991). _Scientists      on Gaia_. Cambridge, Mass., USA: MIT Press. ISBN 0-262-19310-8. Lovelock, James (2005). _Gaia:      Medicine for an Ailing Planet_. Gaia Books. ISBN 1-85675-231-3.  Lovelock, James (2000). _Homage to Gaia: The Life of an Independent Scientist_. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860429-7.  _(Lovelock's autobiography)_

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## SilentButDeadly

Lovelock isn't really loopy left, right or even centrist.....his chosen profession is 'futurist'.  But that's another story.... 
As the divine dictator of the Australian Nation......why would I do? Easy. 
Absolutely nothing. The unfortunate fact about dictators is that once they start meddling in the way a place is run, they inevitably run it counter to the wishes of its regional and international neighbours....and that just makes you unsustainable.  Not a good look for a dictator.  So I would keep my head down and just fiddle around the edges.....not doing too little nor too much. But either way nothing significant. 
Because when you are a dictator you are spectacularily self centred......and as someone in the middle of middle age I'm not going to see the worst of it.  My offspring might therefore I will focus my attention on making sure he/she/it has the skills that give he/she/it the best chance of survival....bugger the rest of the population.

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## Dr Freud

My Bad.  :Blush7:  
Looks like he finally saw the (traffic?) light.   :Shock:   A socialist as a young man, he now favours market forces, and it's not clear whether his politics are the child or the father of his science.  *'Enjoy life while you can'* 
                                                           Climate science maverick James Lovelock believes catastrophe is inevitable, carbon offsetting is a joke and ethical living a scam. So what would he do? By Decca Aitkenhead
Guardian.co.uk    But seriously, loopy left wing (Kim Jong Il) or loopy right wing (Hitler) are just as bad as each other.  Or as the song goes, clowns to the left, jokers to the right, and here I am stuck in the middle with you.  :Fart2:

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## dazzler

Hi Dr Frued 
This one isnt for debating the science, you need to go over to the other thread  :Smilie:

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## andy the pm

Well, where to start!
Assuming we have oodles of spare cash (if not, we'll just plunder some other smaller countries to get the cash)
All petro-chemical companies would become state owned and their 'hard-earned' revenue would go into funding renewable technology.
Legislation would be passed preventing energy suppliers putting up prices every time someone mentioned climate change, their profits would go into funding small scale renewable energy for home owners, no point updating the infrastructure if we're all generating our own energy!
I would shut down all the energy hungry desalinisation plants and put the money into providing rain water tanks for everyone.
Interest free mortgages for people who are building off grid and with low embodied energy building products.
Introduce periodic detention (like NZ) where if your crime isnt bad enough for prison you spend 1 day a week greening the country - lots of tree planting.
Get people eating more kangaroo and croc - its quite tasty really.
Fund by local stores with all produce sourced within 100km
Introduce car free days! And fund bullet trains between all the major cities.
And finally - FREE BEER! 
Andy the Dictator (benevolent of course, unless you p*** me off)

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## Rod Dyson

Ban cars, Give everone a horse.
Ban Trucks, Give every family a cart.
Ban concrete and cutting down trees, Make everyone live in mud huts.
Ban planes, You have to join a gang to row a large boat to go overseas.
Steralize all adults.  No more children
Shut down all coal fired power stations, You can only use rnewable energy if you can get it.
Ban imigration, No one would want to come here any way.
Shut down dissent. Only the army can have cars and trucks and guns.
Stop farming animals, You can only eat what you grow in your own back yard. 
Aggghhh what the hell shoot everyone. sure fired way of stopping emissions. 
You are living in a dream!!

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## Rod Dyson

> Rod, no need to go back to the horse and buggy days. 
> I've been following historical governement protocol by not telling you the whole story...................and I probably shouldn't be telling you this. But, along with the "free beer" program I will aso introduce a "zero alcohol" tolerance towards driving, meaning that within the first month of introducing such a scheme I envision that 80% of vehicles will be off the road due to the driver having a suspended license. Of course, my governement will increase fines and penalties for driving under the influence by at least 5000% week making it a win win sutuation for the government. 
> Can I count on your vote?..............

   :Clap2:

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## Terrian

> Put more freight back on rail instead of thousands of trucks overloading the road infrastructure

  best get on your horse and convince the rail companies to lower their freight costs.   

> and ruining it to boot?

  :lol:

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## Terrian

> Many trades that may do multiple jobs in a day travel in the same vehicle.  Scaffolders for instance may travel 5 in a commodore sedan.  Probably better than some office workers. 
> The best way to find out is drive out to a housing  estate and find your Maloo.  It will be a very very small percentage.  Usually an apprentice living at home with his parents.

  Part of my job involves going to many of these new housing development sites, and I can assure you that very few tradies 'car pool', and there are far more Marloo type utes with 'builders' trailers attached than any other vehicle. Seems that about the only ones who 'car pool' are concreters and brickies (both more often than not use a twin cab light truck)

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## rrobor

Agree with Terrian, but the more important issue  is these boom boxes which seems to be a part of the equipment nowadays. Now Im sure these things are doing the planet no good at all. Probably frightening bees and stopping polination. You just dont know where things lead to.. MMM

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## Terrian

> Ban Trucks, Give every family a cart.

  no no no no no, the truck I drive is very economical, I get between 2.3 & 3.1 kilometers per litre of fuel  :Smilie:

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## Rod Dyson

> O.K.............thanks Rod.............it's all coming together now. 
> Look, I've pencilled you in as my propaganda minister and for the time being you'll also double as my speech writer. Don't worry, you will be handsomely rewarded for your efforts..........I'm thinking about giving you Tasmania or Victoria. Which of course you can plunder and pillage at will............. 
> Now, our first priority should be to get a name for our political party..............we need something original and yuppy sounding................I'm thinking along the lines of "National Australian Socialist Workers" party abbrieveated as NASW...........  
> We also need a really neat looking emblem on all our propaganda material............  
> Your thoughts?

  Man I wish I was that witty HP

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## andy the pm

Wow, you managed to kill this thread....

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## autogenous

> Wow, you managed to kill this thread..

  And you managed to resurrect it  :Biggrin:  
Now where was I, oh yes,  quit the building industry,  get a wages job.   That way you will be out of the eye of the media's propaganda campaign, you can catch the train to work and all you have to worry about is what your going to have for dinner when you go home at night.  :Smilie:   
The whole war on tradies by the media is the final nail in the wrist.  The media can stick it up their red rum. 
Climate was never a constant,  its a continuum of balance way bigger than any little human. 
Control the climate, baaahaaa waa ha hahaha :brava:

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## Rod Dyson

I think I would take a survey of the population to find out what they thought the perfect temperature was for Australia, (has to be a consensus you know).  Once established I would hire a bunch of scientists to tell me exactly how much carbon we can emitt to dial in the exact temperature we decided is the perfect temperature for us. 
Wow its great to know we can now control the thermostat who would have thunked it 20 years ago!! 
Boy we are so lucky to be living in the 21st centuary.

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## LotteBum

Ok, so I don't think me being a dictator of 'Straya would be such a great thing.  The public would detest me even more than they seem to detest old Kevvy. 
What would I do? 
I would be innovative.  I wouldn't give a flying toss what the rest of the world is doing about environmental issues (I prefer not to call it 'climate change' as there is too much scepticism about this term).   
1.  I would see that each and every school in Australia had a permaculture department, and that all children learn about how to grow food in a more sustainable manner.   
2.  I'd scrap tax breaks on fuel guzzling sh!tboxes such as Falcons and Commodores and thus force GM and Ford to rethink the sort of cars they are building in Australia.  Until they are able to do this, punish them by purchasing cars which are not only fuel efficient, but reliable and able to hold some value.  Like Toyotas.  Whilst I am aware that there is a lot of energy involved in shipping cars out here from Japan, I think GM and Ford need a big, fat slap on their respective wrists.  On the subject of cars, I would stop charging registration fees based on engine size (what kind of a load of tripe is that anyway?) and start charging according to emissions generated.  Registration for a car using less than 5L/km would be miniscule - to the tune of maybe $200 per annum.  Registration on your average Land Bruiser would be astronomical (to the tune of $5000 per annum). 
3.  I'd encourage businesses to 'go green' by offering incentives (tax breaks?) for those who do.   
4.  I'd put a limit on 'food miles' of 500km.  The fact that we Brisbanites eat apples from Mildura and Mangoes from NT is nothing short of absurd.   
5.  I'd ask people to either recycle and/or compost/worm farm/feed to chickens all of our green waste, or for those wanting Council to dispose of this, charge them a (hefty) fee for an extra bin to be picked up.  Green waste doesn't break down in landfill and creates methane, which is 3 times more potent than CO2 emissions. 
6.  I'd put a limit on the size of new houses built on certain blocks.  I'm not saying that we should eliminate units, nor encourage urban sprawl, but there are a LOT of huge (400m² plus) houses going up on 405m² blocks around where we live and it's disgusting - big houses use lots of energy and have no garden, and this should be actively discouraged.  I'm all for people building new houses, but there has to be a limit as to what they can and can't build.  If we can live in a 116m² house (family of 3 - will hopefully be 4 at some stage), then so can everyone else. 
7.  I'd actively discourage the importing of goods from big polluters such as China and the US until they are seen as actively doing something to reduce and/or offset their emissions. 
8.  I'd employ the services of someone 'in the know' about the future of mining in Australia as it's unsustainable and fuelling China into destroying the world. 
9.  I'd make adoption easier and cheaper than IVF.  There are lots of children in orphanages all over the world, so why not give them a good, loving home instead of producing more children 'naturally'  :Redface: )  This may not sound like a 'green' thing, but it is, because the biggest problem facing the future of the planet, is population growth.   
Along with all of the above, I'm 99% sure I'd put the country into recession   :Biggrin:  
Cheers,
Lotte

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## Master Splinter

Well, I've already prepared my approach if the ACT government policy - 'No waste by 2010' turns into a cost cutting 'Sorry, what we meant was no waste collection by 2010 unless you cough up more money, sucker' exercise.   
It involves the installation of the most powerful garbage disposal unit I can find, and many hours of "Will it blend" (actually, 'will it blend _and_ flush down the pipe') type fun.  The backyard incinerator might make a comeback, too. 
Green waste?  Composting?  Worm farms? Talk to someone who cares - I'll be using Roundup, concrete and salting the earth well before I look at spending more than half a day a year on garden maintenance related activities. (exceptions made if it involves using a cool tool such as a chainsaw!!)

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## bricks

There would be a few minor changes. Remove the rebates and free installs for the domestic installation of rainwater tanks and insulations. The reason for this is that domestic usage of power and water makes up around 1% of the water used in this country. A 1000 ltr rainwater tank has the potential to save 3000 ltrs of water per year if plumbed to just one fixture. By not purchasing 1 kg of beef - the water saving is 16000 ltrs of water. Add to this the the water cost in manufacturing a 1000ltr tank is 9000 ltrs? It is a waste of time. Industry should be at the forefront of any significant change to water and power use.I would set up a dept to investigate new products, to find and investigate any potential savings in water and power use, implement a change and regulate the outcome. An independant dept made up of non-elected persons who are not buying votes and do not have a secondary agenda.Importes will be allowed only from counries which are working to reduce energy use, this may mean a massive change to the ausiie diet as rice/ pastas/ oils etc may be removed from the shop shelves. (bad luck).The use of factory environments for all industries will be heavily supported, from housing to farming and agriculture.The biggest change will be to drastically improve the public transport sector, focused on rail networks. (after a trip to melbourne earlier this year, it is apparent that SA could really do with some upgrades). The cost of public transport will be heavily subsidised, and legislated to be reliable and consistent. ( My govt will probably kick the private sector out of the transport business and take it over)Nuclear power will be implemented, where required, and sources of renewable power investigated at length. The main focus of my govt will be a reduction in energy use, not just substituting with less damaging energy devices.In general, I will implement a user pays system, where there would be no flag fall charge for items like power and water. The user will pay for what they use, the cost to the consumer will be higher than it is presently, however the costs of installing saving devices (tanks, solar, efficient items) will be offset by the power used. This way people who live in huge MCmansions will cop the brunt and people who live in smaller housing will be less effected.Energy hungry industries will not be supported by govt: In my experience, industry will always find a way to make money. If the current industries require funding by the government- then they are not comercially viable anyway and should be shut down. There will be a period of four to five years where unemployment may be high, however this will eventually work itself out as industries find new ways to make money.

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## LotteBum

Master Splinter, your post made me chuckle, even if I am a little horrified by your train of thought.  My view is that when my child gets to my age and asks the questions I am now asking my parents ("What did you do?"), I want to be able to tell her that I did what I could. 
I like your thinking, Bricks.

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## Master Splinter

Well, I'm not all that bad - I tip the sulphuric acid out of car batteries before they get thrown in the trash. (cleans the sewer pipes, don'tya know?) 
When it comes 'stuff' in the garden, though...I have as much interest in spending time on that as your average non-nerdy person has in, say, reading and understanding RFC 2821, RFC 2822, RFC 1855  and RFC 2646, plus documentation on MIME encoding as a pre-requisite to sending an email.   
About the only thing that encourages me into a garden would be something like a small furnace capable of melting aluminium (or even lead plates from a battery!).  Basically, I'll do garden stuff when people are smart enough not to on-forward every 'this is true, it happened to a friend' email they get. 
But environmentally, I'm happy to go along with any approach, as long as it is either the same or lesser current cost in time and money than I'm currently spending, with no reduction in utility. (ie - I'm planning to upgrade to a 50-inch plasma TV which uses less electricity than my considerably smaller CRT TV as soon as I have the spare cash, even though economically the CRT still owes me about five years of service) 
If you want money to pay for it all, recover it from the baby boomer generation - they are the ones who have benefited most from poor environmental management, and leave my 'Ha-ha sucker, you get to work till you are seventy' generation out of it!  And ding the mass of politicians and CEO's who thought "I'll be retired long before this becomes an issue to worry about" for a few extra bucks while you are at it, too. 
(I've been a cynic ever since the results of the ACT self-government referendum were rejected, and I haven't been on the electoral roll since then.)

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## LotteBum

You raise some very valid points (although I'm not so sure about the batteries!).  Baby boomers do have a lot to answer for, and many of them STILL don't give a toss, driving around in their Landbruisers, towing huge caravans, on their way to some annual geriatric festival in the NT.   
I too would consider myself a cynic(al old mole), but I don't think that this excuses me from being part of the solution...   :Redface: )

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## Master Splinter

Actually, I don't throw the batteries out as the lead is too useful to me when melted down...however, in the meantime you get nagged by family members who don't understand why you would want to keep something like that ('Isn't it dangerous' etc etc).   
These same family members are the ones who make a point of observing earth hour (and remind you about it, too), but then leave the lights on in the main areas of their house all day every day as 'its a bit dark without them' because if you open the curtains too much, 'people can see in'. 
 So that's it - I am way past caring, these days!

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## woodbe

> These same family members are the ones who make a point of observing earth hour (and remind you about it, too), but then leave the lights on in the main areas of their house all day every day as 'its a bit dark without them' because if you open the curtains too much, 'people can see in'. 
>  So that's it - I am way past caring, these days!

  HaHa  :Smilie:  
I thort the batteries didn't use useful amounts of lead/zinc these days? 
woodbe.

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## Rod Dyson

> These same family members are the ones who make a point of observing earth hour (and remind you about it, too), but then leave the lights on in the main areas of their house all day every day as 'its a bit dark without them' because if you open the curtains too much, 'people can see in'. 
> !

  I make a point of lighting up during earth hour  :Yikes2:  
Then again I have always been a rebel.

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## Master Splinter

While I'd never put on a big christmas light show (like, for example the one that Smurf has in this thread), I'm beginning to like the idea of doing one (has to be excessive, of course) just for earth hour, if only to combat all those who think they have 'done something, now I can wash my hands of the matter' by turning their lights off for 60 minutes. 
Can anyone think of some nice un-environmental garden display characters I could create, or should I try to turn my front lawn into a mini-open cut mine??? (Was anyone else rooting for the Colonel in Avatar - he shouda' nuke'd 'em from orbit, just to be sure...)

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## woodbe

> Can anyone think of some nice un-environmental garden display characters I could create, or should I try to turn my front lawn into a mini-open cut mine??? (Was anyone else rooting for the Colonel in Avatar - he shouda' nuke'd 'em from orbit, just to be sure...)

  You could do a moving neon of a miner humping a planet... 
That colonel was such a stereotype. They just stacked the pieces of brainless military and corporate greed together so cheesily... Good film anyway. :2thumbsup:  
woodbe.

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## Master Splinter

Bumper stickers....

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## Rod Dyson

> While I'd never put on a big christmas light show (like, for example the one that Smurf has in this thread), I'm beginning to like the idea of doing one (has to be excessive, of course) just for earth hour, if only to combat all those who think they have 'done something, now I can wash my hands of the matter' by turning their lights off for 60 minutes. 
> Can anyone think of some nice un-environmental garden display characters I could create, or should I try to turn my front lawn into a mini-open cut mine??? (Was anyone else rooting for the Colonel in Avatar - he shouda' nuke'd 'em from orbit, just to be sure...)

  Try a fully lit up oil dereck in full motion. 
Now thats an idea!! :brava:

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## andy the pm

You could install a nuclear reactor in your front yard then shut off the coolant....

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## watson

Getting a bit off topic and leaning towards drivel people.

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## andy the pm

> Getting a bit off topic and leaning towards drivel people.

  Isnt that the whole idea of this section??

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## watson

Topic - Combating Climate Change.
With conditions

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## watson

I said Drivel not dribble

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## DvdHntr

Reduce the world's population or at least stop encouraging population growth by monetary reward for economic reasons.

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## Rod Dyson

> Reduce the world's population or at least stop encouraging population growth by monetary reward for economic reasons.

  Our population growth comes form imigrants not birth.  I think you will find the solution to birth control is in creating wealth within a country.

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## chromis

> Getting a bit off topic and leaning towards drivel people.

  Your drivel meter is a bit on the slow side.  :Biggrin:

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