# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  My method of leveling the joists, tell me if I am dumm or too clever.

## nethern

I tried to level my joist for the subfloor. I desperately looking for a way to pump up low ends and fill in gap with the intermediate bearer. It looks like this:   
For smaller downs, i insert a aluminiun-sheet-coated-with-bitumen(i don't know the name, see photo) folded multiple times to buildup the high.    
For gap between the joists and the intermediate bearer, i use mortar.   
Please tell me, am i doing the right thing? If no, please tell me what is the right way. Thanks ahead.

----------


## Gaza

mate there is no way in earth i would do that the crap will dry out then crack, you can use bits of fibro wack a bit of liquid nails,

----------


## barney118

> mate there is no way in earth i would do that the crap will dry out then crack, you can use bits of fibro wack a bit of liquid nails,

   :What he said:  pack under joist with fibro sheeting, laminate or material that wont compress, ie steel. The ant cap looks a bit crap too, for ~$10 I would put another on, make sure you put DPC between brick and ant cap, looks like new brick work put a spanner in the work? creating more by not taking time. buy yourself some clear 1/2" hose and fill it with water and make a water level, you will be surprised with result.

----------


## nethern

Understood, i initially tried to put a piece of cement sheet underneath (you can see it under the top-far joist).  
The problem is I can't fine tune the leveling - the cement sheet is 6mm thick two stack up is 12mm. That is why i use the folded aluminiun-sheet-coated-with-bitumen(i finally got the name - malthoid) so that I can build up whatever height i want. Just need to compress them hard. 
Please tell me how.

----------


## barney118

You can also use villaboard (6mm thick) or chisel/split the 12mm thick down to a height you need. you dont compress them, they are already compressed. I didnt look first time, but I take it the plumbing is going into a cavity?, the joist should be up closer to the wall and the plumber should have drilled through the bottom plate, and I also note they havent checked out the pipework on the studs so unless there is a false wall how do you plan on fitting the wall sheets to the studs?

----------


## shauck

I'm guessing that where the pipework isn't checked in is where the bath is going?

----------


## ringtail

Fibro comes in 4.5 mm too

----------


## barney118

And the samples you get for laminate ( kitchen benches) are a lot thinner but better than folding you mathoid  
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

----------


## activeman

BUilders shims  -  come in 1,2,5 and 10 mm 
Wont find them at bunnings though, you'll have to find a builders shop

----------


## nethern

> You can also use villaboard (6mm thick) or chisel/split the 12mm thick down to a height you need. you dont compress them, they are already compressed. I didnt look first time, but I take it the plumbing is going into a cavity?, the joist should be up closer to the wall and the plumber should have drilled through the bottom plate, and I also note they havent checked out the pipework on the studs so unless there is a false wall how do you plan on fitting the wall sheets to the studs?

  Yes, all right points. They have given me headache when I did planning, but could not figure out even now. I am more doing a "problem fixing" than actual "renovation"
1. the old joist is taking the wall-close-position, so the new joist can't get closer without any modification. I  don't know how. See pic below.
2. the pipeline is hanging on the old joist that is just at the bottom of the wall. Drilling or trimming through bottom of the wall also mean drilling and trimming the joist. Don't think it is a good idea.
3. When installing the floor board, i will just have to leave a notch there for the pipe. 
Dose the wall-close joist have to at the very edge of the room? Can't it be, just like my pic show, leave a little gap there? Floor board surely can cover it. Right? 
If you have better ideas, please let me know. I am newbie.

----------


## nethern

> And the samples you get for laminate ( kitchen benches) are a lot thinner but better than folding you malthoid  
> Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

  I grabbed a big stack of the samples from bunnings. They are quite strong and thin enough for tuning the height. But they have slippery surface and need to be glued together and leave dry. The size is barely enough to cover the contact patch between joist and bearer. 
Ehmm, i do like mathoid better...Is it bad practice to use malthoid? Not recommended?

----------


## activeman

The shortcuts you take now will make you pay later. 
Do the right thing, use laminate or builders shims.
I really don't think malthoid is a good idea.

----------


## barney118

with the laminate/shim, pre drill a hole and put a screw through to keep in place.

----------


## nethern

Not meaning i don't truth you guys, but in my impression, i read about malthoid packers somewhere. 
Researching a bit, I came up with this article. http://www.itmstores.co.nz/images/RW2-DECKING_web.pdf 
On step 4 page 2, it talks about using malthoid to pack bearer. It is about building a deck though. 
And this Council Approvals - HIANDRI Solutions Ltd 
All in kiwi. I guess in terms of building a house, there is not much difference in building a house between there and here in OZ(?)

----------


## activeman

> Not meaning i don't truth you guys, but in my impression, i read about malthoid packers somewhere. 
> Researching a bit, I came up with this article. http://www.itmstores.co.nz/images/RW2-DECKING_web.pdf 
> On step 4 page 2, it talks about using malthoid to pack bearer. It is about building a deck though. 
> And this Council Approvals - HIANDRI Solutions Ltd 
> All in kiwi. I guess in terms of building a house, there is not much difference in building a house between there and here in OZ(?)

  Err.. the Handri says alternative to malthoid. 
Use malthoid. You've obviously got your heart set on it.

----------


## Bloss

Regular malthoid is not OK as it compresses (it is wood fibres or another 'felt' saturated with bitumen and coated with mica) - but what you have is coated aluminium (maybe zinc) and it is OK, laminates I have used for >45 years and my Dah many years before that, fibre cement sheeting is OK too as is gal steel. That mortar MUST come out - it is not OK at all - it will be gone within months of the floor being in use!

----------


## Craigoss

As others have said, cement sheet, timber, or packing pieces which come in 1,3,5,10mm and also imperial sizes.

----------


## nethern

> Yes, all right points. They have given me headache when I did planning, but could not figure out even now. I am more doing a "problem fixing" than actual "renovation"
> 1. the old joist is taking the wall-close-position, so the new joist can't get closer without any modification. I  don't know how. See pic below.
> 2. the pipeline is hanging on the old joist that is just at the bottom of the wall. Drilling or trimming through bottom of the wall also mean drilling and trimming the joist. Don't think it is a good idea.
> 3. When installing the floor board, i will just have to leave a notch there for the pipe. 
> Dose the wall-close joist have to at the very edge of the room? Can't it be, just like my pic show, leave a little gap there? Floor board surely can cover it. Right? 
> If you have better ideas, please let me know. I am newbie.

  Anyone can give me some suggestions about this?

----------


## Bloss

Not quite sure what you are saying - the tops of the new joists and the old joists must be level with each other - that joist with a gap to the bottom of the wall plate also looks to be sitting below the adjacent joist and lower than the joist end from the room next door sitting on the bearer. Something has to change or flooring simply will not fit - usually you would pack up the joist to be level.

----------


## Gaza

> Not quite sure what you are saying - the tops of the new joists and the old joists must be level with each other - that joist with a gap to the bottom of the wall plate also looks to be sitting below the adjacent joist and lower than the joist end from the room next door sitting on the bearer. Something has to change or flooring simply will not fit - usually you would pack up the joist to be level.

  From a guess old hardwood is sawn ex100mm dried out to say 97mm new hardwood us dressed finish 90mm I think that red alert LVL might have been better option as its 100mm finish and you can nail easy than hardwood

----------


## Bloss

> From a guess old hardwood is sawn ex100mm dried out to say 97mm new hardwood us dressed finish 90mm I think that red alert LVL might have been better option as its 100mm finish and you can nail easy than hardwood

  He's already got all his joists so he needs help with what he has . . . just needs to pack up it seems - an OP who uses mortar as packer needs much help . . .  :Rolleyes: , but he'll get there OK

----------


## METRIX

Oh Dear, some of the thinigs you see unskilled people do, As derryn says Shame Shame, but at least you are asking for help, thats a start.

----------


## barney118

> Oh Dear, some of the thinigs you see unskilled people do, As derryn says Shame Shame, but at least you are asking for help, thats a start.

  I see it more as someone that lacks knowledge, and why they are here, having a-go realised they are out of their depth but importantly stopped and can improve the situation without too much rework, and hopefully learns by their mistakes and passes on that info to others.

----------


## nethern

The motar is no more. Now it will be packed with laminate. The problem now is how do i get the top joist close to the old wall as the pipe and old joist are in the way.

----------


## barney118

> The motar is no more. Now it will be packed with laminate. The problem now is how do i get the top joist close to the old wall as the pipe and old joist are in the way.

  sorry dood, but time to call the plumber back, you could check the studs out with a chisel being very careful, but where it goes through the floor you are going to have to drill through the bottom plate/stud. (I dont like this option and I dont think it is legal? having water pipes running through studs so close to where you can fix sheeting and potentially screw through the villaboard or plaster into the pipe.)
Looking back at the first photo, cut the pipes off under the ground and have the plumber join from here under the joists and go vertical up the wall (left of photo).

----------


## Gaza

> The motar is no more. Now it will be packed with laminate. The problem now is how do i get the top joist close to the old wall as the pipe and old joist are in the way.

  laminate is only for micro adjustment, use fibro for bulk packing or plastic packers or treated plywood

----------


## cas

You can buy big sheets of 10mm black plastic. We use offcuts from a trailer manufacturer. They use it in horse floats or something. you can cut it down to the size of your joists with your circular saw, and plane it to the thickness you need. Won't compress and will last forever. That's if you want to get it mm perfect. Otherwise use fibro like most of the others have said.

----------


## barney118

use the laminate for fine tuning, use steel, anything that wont compress over time like fibro etc for major adjustment.

----------


## intertd6

never use malthoid as packing as it is a compressible material, what you can use is an aluminium cored doc material, cement sheet will delaminate into thin layers if bent or bashed a few times.
regards inter

----------

