# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  Moving?

## Bros

How did they know the building moved 1 to 2 mm do they have constant monitoring installed?  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...ation/10666734

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## METRIX

> How did they know the building moved 1 to 2 mm do they have constant monitoring installed?  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...ation/10666734

  Interesting, they said it moved 1-2mm that is nothing these building sway around in the wind, the article said the doors were jammed and residents said the doors were jammed, that sound like a bit more than 1-2mm, and as you said how did they know this, were they monitoring this building for some reason ? 
Typical 40 story building will sway around 30cm either side of it's axis over a 4 second period, most people won't even know it's moving. 
A 100 story building typically sways around 90cm either side over a 10 second period, scary stuff but normal.
This one might be different, a loud bang, jammed doors, that might be a problem

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## Bros

Bit of a worry if you were living in it as you would always worry about the future and the possibility of selling would have taken a nose dive.

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## METRIX

Depends on what they find, might be something simple, might not, if it's level 10 then there's 20+ stories above you that could be a problem, guess we will find out in the coming days. 
Feel sorry for these people 3000 have been evacuated on Christmas eve and they have set up a 1km exclusion zone !!

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## doovalacky

> How did they know the building moved 1 to 2 mm

  I presume they are referring to the size of the crack on level 10.
How serious it is all depends on which direction it is. ie the floor sinking 2 mm would be a concern.

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## METRIX

Minor issue, ended up being a supporting wall that cracked, little bit of glue will fix it  residents have been allowed back in, but 51 apartments have not been allowed to move back in due to safety concerns !!! 
The media is hopeless, I read and watched on the news this building was reported to have 30,32,34,36 and even 38 levels.

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## sol381

Id be worried if it only moved 1-2mm.. supposed to move to prevent cracking. some sway over a metre..anyway the quality of buildings in australia over the last decade is worse than india. No quality control and unlike domestic buildings they only have builders insurance for 1 year not 6..total joke.

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## Bros

> Minor issue, ended up being a supporting wall that cracked,

  Minor!

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## sol381

Bit of Christmas sarcasm i presume.

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## Marc

I would like to have a quiet word with that couple who left their dog in the apartment whilst they evacuated. 
Pricks!

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## joynz

Might have been out shopping and not been allowed back in - like this mother and her son (his rabbit is still in the apartment).  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...-home/10667636

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## METRIX

> Id be worried if it only moved 1-2mm.. supposed to move to prevent cracking. some sway over a metre..anyway the quality of buildings in australia over the last decade is worse than india. No quality control and unlike domestic buildings they only have builders insurance for 1 year not 6..total joke.

  Yep, If I build a $10K deck I need to offer 6 years warranty for major defects (2 for non major defect), but I could go build a 165 Million building I offer basically nothing, this has been proven many times with the various new building which have suffered major defects and the builders walk away forcing the residents to fork out thousands each to rectify the problems. 
Such as the $7 million bill to replace the illegal cladding on just one of the buildings in pyrmont, it's only a 19 story building and the cladding only covers a small part of the building, they said to replace it would cause the residents to up their $3000 per quarter strata fees to $10,000 for five years, so each resident is facing a $200,000 bill. 
Seriously who in their right minds would wan't to live in these buildings and pay $3000 per quarter strata fees in the first place, people have rocks in their heads, it makes my council rates of $400 per quarter for a 1000sqm block seem like chicken feed. 
My nephew was looking at a unit in Sutherland. it was only 8 years old, they got hold of the strata documentation and there was a 420 page document outlining the current problems with the building !!!  
Needless to say he bought elsewhere.

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## sol381

Dead right.. i was told that a few of the large building companies didnt agree with the 6 year period so the unions spoke to minister for housing and was changed very quickly..May be true i dont know but they probably brought a Brown paper bag full of $$$$ with them..2 mates i work with are a plumber and electrician.. They do probably 75% of their work on new highrise maintenance. Its mainly student accommodation and the defects mount up as soon as they move in. The builders delay for a year, wipe their hands and my mates move in to fix the problems.. Plumber mate said quality of work is worse than a 1st year apprentice. He literally goes to one of the 5 or 6 buildings on a daily basis. Good for him but costly for the owners.

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## joynz

> Dead right.. i was told that a few of the large building companies didnt agree with the 6 year period so the unions spoke to minister for housing and was changed very quickly..May be true i dont know but they probably brought a Brown paper bag full of $$$$ with them..2 mates i work with are a plumber and electrician.. They do probably 75% of their work on new highrise maintenance. Its mainly student accommodation and the defects mount up as soon as they move in. The builders delay for a year, wipe their hands and my mates move in to fix the problems.. Plumber mate said quality of work is worse than a 1st year apprentice. He literally goes to one of the 5 or 6 buildings on a daily basis. Good for him but costly for the owners.

  That story likely isn’t  true! 
According to my builder mate who’s been in the industry for decades (Vic) the issue with insurance is related to the fall out from the HIH collapse.   
Apparently, no other insurance companies were willing to step into the marketplace and provide builders warranty insurance cover and none wanted to take the risk of multi story buildings.  The compromise was to require it only for buildings up to 3 storeys.  I have a vague idea that state govt may be involved in underwriting it in some states? 
Here’s a potted history:  https://www.bannermans.com.au/files/...11_02_15-2.pdf

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## Bros

> Apparently, no other insurance companies were willing to step into the marketplace and provide builders warranty insurance cover and none wanted to take the risk of multi story buildings.

  Gee that doesn't inspire any confidence. What about normal building insurance like is done on houses are the buildings covered then?

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## johnc

Depends, on unit developments you may find the builder set up a company, completed the build then closed the company down, the company is liable for faults but with no assets no payment. I have personal experience with that method, sometimes the builders really does go broke, no payment again. There may be insurance but often you don't get a decent result from the insurer. Our issue was water mainly flashing to the roof and waterproofing not done properly we as a group extracted some money from the developer through negotiation, but ultimately go left holding the baby. It wasn't mega bucks but enough to be annoying. I don't know what the answer is but feel tighter engineering and inspection oversight is better value than expensive insurance that doesn't really work. If you considerably reduce the faults then premiums should come down over time.

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## sol381

Actually i spoke to my plumber and he asked the qbcc and that is what happened joynz.. At least here in qld. Insurance companies dont cover builders warranty insurance.,., Its paid for up here on each job and paid directly to qbcc. Its a croc. if the builder cant finish the job or there is a fault and the contractor doesnt remedy it, the qbcc will pay for it and then try and get the money from the contractor. Its like if you cause an accident in your car, the insurance company pays for all damages and then chases you to get reimbursed. Insurance isnt really an appropriate name.

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## joynz

It’s now called Domestic Building Insurance in Vic (state govt backed but purchased by builders through selected private companies).  
NSW renamed it to ‘Home Building Compensation Fund’ rather than insurance - emphasising that it is a ‘last resort’ fund.

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## sol381

More appropriate name.. It is a last resort. Still it seems domestic builders have to carry the burdon a lot longer then commercial.

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## joynz

> More appropriate name.. It is a last resort. Still it seems domestic builders have to carry the burdon a lot longer then commercial.

  Buidings by commercial builders 3 storeys and under are included.   
Isn’t it the case that defects will still be expected to be fixed as a ‘first resort’ by the builder - if the builder isn’t missing, dead or insolvent?  
For example, if bathroom water proofing fails in my 6 storey apartment, I’d go back to the builder.  The builder would chase the water proofer.

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## PhilT2

Anyone got an update on this; seems the building has been evacuated again.

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## Bros

Only this https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...-time/10669834 
I feel sorry for them paying that many dollars for a unit that should be next to faultless.

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## intertd6

Buyer beware.  Home Building Compensation cover is not required for:  residential home building work with a contract price of less than $20,000 including GSTwork that is excluded from the definition of residential building work in clause 2 of Schedule 1 of the Home Building Act 1989work involved in the construction of new multi-storey buildings (buildings with a rise in storeys of more than three and containing two or more separate home units, and where storey and rise in storeys have the same meaning as they have in the Building Code of Australia of the National Construction Code Series (clause 56 of the Home Building Regulation 2014    *in NSW the government caved in to one builder and created the third exemption shown above, the pissweek  HIA supported the privatisation of the existing scheme which had 70 million in cash , this cash was swallowed up by the state never to be seen again, the MBA fought against the HOW ( Home Owners Warranty ) scheme from the start, the HIA didn't because it was in cahoots with the Govt as it was going to be an HOW insurer, they didn't give a rats about looking after builders or home owners , just taking in money for a scheme which eventually failed to do what it claimed it would do just like MBA predicted it would .**inter*

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## joynz

> Buyer beware.    *in NSW the government caved in to one builder and created the third exemption shown above, the pissweek  HIA supported the privatisation of the existing scheme which had 70 million in cash , this cash was swallowed up by the state never to be seen again, the MBA fought against the HOW ( Home Owners Warranty ) scheme from the start, the HIA didn't because it was in cahoots with the Govt as it was going to be an HOW insurer, they didn't give a rats about looking after builders or home owners , just taking in money for a scheme which eventually failed to do what it claimed it would do just like MBA predicted it would .**inter*

  Really?   
The same MBA who said in their 2012 submission to the review of the Home Building Act: ‘_Master Builders continues to support the exemption from warranty insurance for the construction of multi-storey residential buildings.’  and_  
‘Master Builders has lobbied for, and continues to support Home Warranty Insurance as a “last Resort” consumer safety net, to be administered and underwritten by the State Government.’

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## sol381

Nope..Well in qld anyway.. if the building is more than a year old the builder is in the clear. ridiculous.. I see it every day. If the building isnt built to code, which looks like the case with this one is sydney, then im sure a legal case would be taken.  If anything did happen in an apartment like yours then maybe bodycorp fees would pay for it.    

> Buidings by commercial builders 3 storeys and under are included.   
> Isn’t it the case that defects will still be expected to be fixed as a ‘first resort’ by the builder - if the builder isn’t missing, dead or insolvent?  
> For example, if bathroom water proofing fails in my 6 storey apartment, I’d go back to the builder.  The builder would chase the water proofer.

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## joynz

> Nope..Well in qld anyway.. if the building is more than a year old the builder is in the clear. ridiculous.. I see it every day. If the building isnt built to code, which looks like the case with this one is sydney, then im sure a legal case would be taken.  If anything did happen in an apartment like yours then maybe bodycorp fees would pay for it.

  I found this on the QBCC website (addressed to builders):  *Defective work*  If your client believes the work you have done is defective, they can lodge a complaint with us.   Defective building usually falls into 2 categories:  Structural – e.g. leaking roof, leaking shower, health and safety issuesNon-structural – e.g. sticking doors or windows, minor cracking of plasterboard.  We may also look at complaints about consequential damage caused by building work.  *Complaint timeframes*   *Structural Defective Work* –The owner can lodge a complaint within 6 years 6 months from when the work is completed and within 12 months of noticing the defect.*Non-structural Defective Work* –As a contractor, you may provide a 6 or 12 month statutory warranty from the date of practical completion for non-structural defects.  Typically, this is part of the contract conditions for new home construction. If the owner notices a defect within the warranty period, they can request (in writing), that you fix the defect. The owner can also lodge a complaint with QBCC which must be lodged no later than 12 months from noticing the defect.  *Complaints made to the QBCC*  The following process occurs once a complaint is lodged:  *Assessment* – A QBCC Officer will contact you and the owner to discuss and assess the complaint and obtain further information or documents if required.  If the matter cannot be resolved over the telephone, a site meeting with both parties is usually arranged.*Inspection* – A Building Inspector is assigned to the case and will contact you to attempt to facilitate an outcome. If this is unsuccessful, the QBCC Building Inspector may undertake a site inspection.*Resolution* – Following a site inspection, we may issue a direction to you, and any relevant subcontractor, to rectify defective building work. In most cases, this requires a 28-day minimum rectification period.  
If you fail to comply with a direction, we may commence disciplinary action in the QCAT or Magistrates Court. For residential construction work (covered by a Certificate of Insurance), the work may be rectified as a claim under the insurance policy. We may recover the amount of an approval claim from you as a debt.  QBCC's Dispute Resolution Process (PDF) provides more information. *
Accountability for Subcontractors*  Following extensive consultation with building industry associations, the QBCC will ensure subcontractors are held accountable for defective building work they perform. *
Complaints we don't investigate*  We generally don't investigate:  Complaints where the work value is $3,300 and under (including labour materials or GST) – excluding plumbing, drainage, gas fitting, termite management chemical system installation, building design and completed building inspections which can be investigated regardless of the valueComplaints about electrical workComplaints about meeting contract conditions or payment disputes. Please refer to BCIPA for more information.  
The _Queensland Building and Construction Commission Regulation 2018 – Schedule 1 Section 5_ outlines the full list of work we cannot help with.

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## sol381

Seems it doesnt apply to large commercial.. My mate has replaced so many taps and toilets and vanities and fixed leaking pipes in 1-3 year old buildings its not funny. The builder just wont come back.. There is one building where halfway through construction the builder decided to get the remaining windows from china. They found out these didnt meet glazing or sound proof standards.. The owners had to pay over $600,000 to get them replaced.,Buiding wasnt more than 2 year sold. they get away with murder.

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## joynz

> Seems it doesnt apply to large commercial.. My mate has replaced so many taps and toilets and vanities and fixed leaking pipes in 1-3 year old buildings its not funny. The builder just wont come back.. There is one building where halfway through construction the builder decided to get the remaining windows from china. They found out these didnt meet glazing or sound proof standards.. The owners had to pay over $600,000 to get them replaced.,Buiding wasnt more than 2 year sold. they get away with murder.

  
I think the QLD version of insurance may be different from some other states - as death, insolvency or missing builder doesn’t seem to be mentioned in this extract from the same QBCC site (which includes a different complaint timeframe than the quote I posted earlier!). Still only applies to buildings under 4 storeys.  *Home warranty insurance explained*  Most residential building work done in Queensland valued over $3,300 (including labour and materials) must have home warranty insurance. 
As part of the building process, the builder pays a premium to us to insure the construction. The amount is included as part of your contract, and is paid before work begins. 
It may protect you where:  a licensed builder does not complete the contracted residential construction work and you have terminated the contractthe contractor fails to rectify defective workthe building suffers from subsidence or settlement.  
If we pay out on a claim, we pursue the builder to recover the claim amount.  *Assistance under Queensland Home Warranty Scheme* 
Should your complaint involve residential construction work and is not able to be satisfactorily resolved through QBCC’s dispute resolution process, your application will be assessed as to whether you may be eligible for assistance under the Queensland Home Warranty Scheme. You are not required to lodge a separate form for this to occur.  
Please note the following strict time limits apply for some claims:  For *structural defects* you must lodge this complaint form within *3 months* of noticing the defectFor *non-structural defects* you must lodge this complaint form within *7 months* of the completion date

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## sol381

Seems a cop out tho dont you think.. Most builders or tradies doing domestic work arent multimillionaires or have a huge company behind them. The multiplexes and grollos and mcnabs are huge..they can afford to do the job right in the first place and remedy any faults. Yet they leave it to the poor owners to fork out money themselves for their pisspoor work.

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## intertd6

> Really?   
> The same MBA who said in their 2012 submission to the review of the Home Building Act: ‘_Master Builders continues to support the exemption from warranty insurance for the construction of multi-storey residential buildings.’  and_  
> ‘Master Builders has lobbied for, and continues to support Home Warranty Insurance as a “last Resort” consumer safety net, to be administered and underwritten by the State Government.’

  Thats around 12 years after NSW proposed the change to privatise the scheme, I attended meetings at the MBA then a few thousand builders marched down Macquarie st in Sydney to the state parliament to protest about the scheme, after one individual builder phoned the state premier & demanded an exemption for his hi rise developments otherwise there was going to be 10,000 unemployed come next Monday just from his developments, the premier caved&  that part of the industry got what it wanted by the shear might of one large builder, the MBA got what it wanted anyway, they were happy, they still are happy because they are still exempt & the government has come back to being the insurer which they were before privatisation.
inter

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## intertd6

> How did they know the building moved 1 to 2 mm do they have constant monitoring installed?  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...ation/10666734

  the original surveyors could have set up & calulated the vertical movement in under 10 minutes. But 1 to 2 mm seems to be a minuscule amount for the amount of damage & effects, it's more likely to be 10 to 20 mm & they might has confused to measurement units & they might have been quoting centimetres.
inter

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## phild01

Where in the building was the infinitesimal 1-2mm movement!
Does it mean it is starting to lean!

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## phild01

Where it is built is very close, or on the old Homebush tip site, also where the abattoirs once were.

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## joynz

> Seems a cop out tho dont you think.. Most builders or tradies doing domestic work arent multimillionaires or have a huge company behind them. The multiplexes and grollos and mcnabs are huge..they can afford to do the job right in the first place and remedy any faults. Yet they leave it to the poor owners to fork out money themselves for their pisspoor work.

  That’s not how I read it.  I think faults do have to be remedied - it’s just that if the builder of a 4+ storey building goes insovlvent, dies or goes missing and therefore won’t fix issues, there is no ‘last resort’ remedy (which is what builder’s warranty insurance is in NSW and VIC).

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## Bros

> it's more likely to be 10 to 20 mm & they might has confused to measurement units & they might have been quoting centimetres.

   Sounds about right and it was downplayed to allay the residents fears.

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## METRIX

> Where in the building was the infinitesimal 1-2mm movement!
> Does it mean it is starting to lean!

  It was on Level 10, a prefabricated concrete panel which was made by a third party local company has failed for some reason, probably sounds like a faulty batch of concrete used in the panel ? 
According to reports the affected panel has been stabilised and temporarily supported to allow the building to be investigated properly.
Latest is the residents have been asked to leave the building for a 2nd time in 4 days for an unknown amount of time so they can have the building inspected properly. 
Below are a few pics of the damage and the latest info on this.  Furious residents of Sydney's Opal Tower have confronted the owners of the apartment building after being told to leave for a second time in four days.  In a statement released on Thursday afternoon Icon, the builder behind the project, said all residents would be relocated over the next 24 hours so a "comprehensive investigation" into a crack on the tenth floor of the building can take place.  Residents were warned the investigation may take 10 days but Icon could not guarantee when they would be allowed to return. They said accommodation would be secured for all residents at nearby hotels and compensation would be provided by the builder.  However, residents were told they would need to spend another night in the tower despite looming questions about the structural integrity of the building.  They were told to expect an email in the morning informing them of their new accommodation. A community meeting about the abrupt vacating of the building was scheduled at 2:45pm on Thursday afternoon, but was sent to residents via email at 2:19pm.  Many of the residents were out enjoying their holidays and were unable to ask the developer questions. Icon director Julian Doyle was confronted by one angry resident outside the building who questioned how long the process was going to take.  "You ask us to move back now you ask us to evacuate again," the resident said. "The accommodation [you provided] is terrible [compared] to our apartments, which we paid for.  Mr Doyle said they were evacuating all residents to "expediate" the investigation process. "We're still investigating [and] we really want to investigate further," he said.  "We're spending a lot of time and energy with a team of the country's best engineers to try and understand why this actually took place 18 months after it was installed. "Getting it right is most important and looking after the residents is most important."  Residents were originally evacuated from the building on Christmas Eve after a large crack developed on the tenth floor of the newly-opened building. It was later revealed to be a concrete panel, known as a pre-cast panel. Fifty-one apartments  or about one third of the inhabited residents in Opal Tower  are still considered unsafe for residents to return. Icon, which until today has been almost silent on the structural problem, said the damaged section of the building had now been reinforced as a "precautionary measure" while a team of engineers carried out the investigation.  It said the building was "structurally sound". The investigation is being led by global engineering firm WSP, with assistance from senior engineers from Japanese-based Kajima Corporation, the majority owner of Icon. "We believe we did get it right ... we're spending a lot of time and energy with a team of the country's best engineers to understand why this took place 18 months after it was installed," Mr Doyle said.  Icon's announcement comes as the NSW Government named two professors of engineering to lead an inquiry into what happened on Christmas Eve. University of NSW dean of engineering Mark Hoffman and University of Newcastle engineering dean John Carter will lead the investigation. *Developer defends the project*  Ecove is the developer behind the project
. C
ompany director Bassam Aflak, who first spoke on the issue two days after it occurred, said the company had been as "transparent as possible". However he has declined repeated requests from the ABC for an interview.  "We're pushing as hard as everyone else for information on what's happened," Mr Aflak said in a written statement."The city's 'development boom' has not led to cutting of corners."There has been no cutting of corners."  The Opal Tower's development approval came under the "state significant development" legislation  introduced in 2011  and was given the green light by the NSW Department of Planning in 2015. Many residents from the tower  even those not in the affected area  have indicated they will be looking for alternative accommodation. Although some have returned home, some experts have suggested the problems in the building could trigger a fire sale.  The apartments sell for $620,000 for one bedroom and one bathroom and up to $935,000 for a two-bedroom, two-bathroom apartment.

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## doovalacky

Bit more than the 1-2mm crack reported. 
Looks like there might be something embedded in the panel that created a weaker point that's given away under stress, perhaps an power conduit to something on other side.
Slightly clearer photo than above.  
Wonder if its a thermal expansion issue or inadequate strength for loading.

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## METRIX

Here is the interim report for the damage sustained to the OPAL building, as always when concrete structures start to fail it's not one thing that's the cause but a number of different factors that lead to the resulting failure.
This one seems to have a few manufacturing and construction issues.  https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/-/me...2019-01-15.pdf

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## phild01

If 20mm reo was used instead of 28, brings a lot into question I guess!

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## Marc

May be a good time to buy an apartment at half price? ... mm ... may be a bit cheaper, say $200k ?  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> If 20mm reo was used instead of 28, brings a lot into question I guess!

  Yes, that is a concern, makes you wonder what other stuff has been done wrong / undersized that may show up in 5 or 10 years, I guess it will be a difficult one to fix, the engineering company say they can fix it though.

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## METRIX

> May be a good time to buy an apartment at half price? ... mm ... may be a bit cheaper, say $200k ?

  Nah, that building in jinxed now, forever it will be known as the collapsing one, apartments will be worthless now.

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## r3nov8or

"Knock it down and do it properly this time, sonny!"

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## Bros

Wouldn’t make good reading for residents.

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## phild01

Residents should get their money back, especially those who will now have reduced living space.

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## toooldforthis

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...-used/10835498   

> Three major causes were highlighted:The report found the hob beams — a beam that sits on the edge of a slab of concrete or pillar — were "under-designed" at several locations in the building.A decision to "grout only partially" a section between the hob beams and panels "significantly raised the levels of stress" in the buildingConstruction and material deficiencies such as "lower-strength concrete" were used in level 4-A of the building

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## phild01

Still reckon buyer's should get their money back, have them move out and let the company attempt the repair and resell.

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## toooldforthis

> Still reckon buyer's should get their money back, have them move out and let the company attempt the repair and resell.

  while I agree with the sentiment I think that won't happen because:  you can bet the company probably no longer has the funds (offshored em)anyone else responsible isn't legally responsible eitherthis is just the tip of the iceberg, plenty more opals out there and we don't want to be setting any precedents do we.

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## phild01

> while 
> I agree with the sentiment I think that won't happen because:  you can bet the company probably no longer has the funds (offshored em)anyone else responsible isn't legally responsible eitherthis is just the tip of the iceberg, plenty more opals out there and we don't want to be setting any precedents do we.

  The way I see it, Bob Carr's NSW Labour brought about this situation of no liability for anything over 3 storeys.  Unfortunately it now affects any government but because of it, the consequence is a building like the Opal tower. I would be supportive of the Government re-imbursing all owners and let them choose to move out.  Rectify it properly without any of the pressures of owners and then re-sell, not worrying about the loss. Bankrupt the building company and never let those people run construction again.

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## intertd6

> The way I see it, Bob Carr's NSW Labour brought about this situation of no liability for anything over 3 storeys.  Unfortunately it now affects any government but because of it, the consequence is a building like the Opal tower. I would be supportive of the Government re-imbursing all owners and let them choose to move out.  Rectify it properly without any of the pressures of owners and then re-sell, not worrying about the loss. Bankrupt the building company and never let those people run construction again.

  the construction industry is a joke now & caters exclusively for gypo builders, we moved from the English system of quality control by onsite independent clerks of works, to the American profits first & no accountability system which tries to fix problems after they are created & set in concrete & steel. The quality assurance systems these construction companies claim to adhere to is a tick sheet scam & they should be held criminally accountable for the falsification of them, it's a fraudulent activity, tier one construction companies are the worst & I've witnessed it with my own eyes being in a supervisory position with them.
inter

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## Bros

What’s a tier one construction company?

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## intertd6

> What’s a tier one construction company?

  *What is a tier 1 construction company?*Tier 1 construction companies and builders are widely considered the most largest and most experienced in the industry. Tier 1 construction companies work on the largest and most significant infrastructure projects (think projects with contract values in the billions and hundreds of millions) and also have the largest revenues. It is not easy to become a tier 1 construction company in Australia, in total, there are only six tier 1 construction companies in the entire country!  *List of Australian Tier 1 Construction Companies*CPB Contractors Pty LtdThiess Pty LtdJohn Holland Pty LtdLendLeaseBauderstone Pty LtdAbigroup

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## toooldforthis

> What’s a tier one construction company?

  you will find a list on the political party donor list.

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## phild01

> you will find a list on the political party donor list.

   :2thumbsup:

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## Bros

> you will find a list on the political party donor list.

  Just philanthropic.

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## autogenous

Tier 1 is the limited number of builders that can tender for goverment contracts   

> *What is a tier 1 construction company?*  Tier 1 construction companies and builders are widely considered the most largest and most experienced in the industry. Tier 1 construction companies work on the largest and most significant infrastructure projects (think projects with contract values in the billions and hundreds of millions) and also have the largest revenues. It is not easy to become a tier 1 construction company in Australia, in total, there are only six tier 1 construction companies in the entire country!  *List of Australian Tier 1 Construction Companies*   CPB Contractors Pty LtdThiess Pty LtdJohn Holland Pty LtdLendLeaseBauderstone Pty LtdAbigroup

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## toooldforthis

> Just philanthropic.

  lol
u left of the /sarc tag

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## METRIX

Opal tower has estimated to have cost the builder $30 Million so far, engineers are being blamed.  https://www.9news.com.au/national/op...2-6fc4e6cad492

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## sol381

Most engineers ive dealt with over-engineer the design. Were they trying to cut corners and save the builder some money?

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## Bros

Big stuff up up here with the Paradise Dam. Seems it was engineered OK but the data supplied about the foundations was poor and the construction was poor with to many unsatisfactory cold joint bonds.  https://www.sunwater.com.au/projects...nical-reports/

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## METRIX

> Most engineers ive dealt with over-engineer the design. Were they trying to cut corners and save the builder some money?

  Yes same here, will be interesting to see the outcome.

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## Bros

> Opal tower has estimated to have cost the builder $30 Million so far, engineers are being blamed.  https://www.9news.com.au/national/op...2-6fc4e6cad492

  I see they are blaming the engineers.

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## phild01

Can it be said that there is an element of attitude '_that's their problem'_ when issues of concern are seen but left unattended during the construction phase.

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## sol381

Up here the engineer does the inspections. footings slab frame as they are normally the ones who design it. Certifiers wont normally touch it.. If thats the case seems its strange they would sign off on something that they designed but wasnt built to spec. Something isnt right. So many blokes on the job who i assume have done it for many years. Someone must have noticed it wasnt built correctly.  Also where are the union boys defending their workers now.

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## METRIX

200k would only be 1/5th price in the opal

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