# Forum Home Renovation Solar Electrical Systems  off grid Solar - 10kWh battery for USD$3500

## toooldforthis

this is where I am thinking of going.
tho I suspect the gov't will still charge you if the grid passes your house (think this happened in Florida) 
Anyway
Elon Musk on the Tesla home battery
Bit American in the hype and hey yeahs 
But worth watching the 18’ of video … if you haven’t seen it already.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKOR...aturday&modapt= 
over 2mil views so far.  Powerwall | Tesla Home Battery  
Oz dollar will probably be 50cents to the USD before I am ready tho  :Doh:

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## PhilT2

Musk has teamed up with Panasonic I think to build a megafactory in Nevada with the intent of bringing down the price of these batteries. This is intended to lower the price of the Tesla cars and will make going off grid more realistic. Don't know if our dollar is headed south or not but reserve bank says our economy is....

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## Random Username

If you want one, you are out of luck - they have already sold out to the middle of next year - 38,000 units sold.

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## toooldforthis

> If you want one, you are out of luck - they have already sold out to the middle of next year - 38,000 units sold.

  yep. not too surprised
think the Nevada mega factory comes on stream 2016? 
but apparently he said the technology is o_pen source,_ so what one can hope for is a local Oz manufacturer getting on board?
that is if we have a manufacturing industry left.

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## Smurf

> but apparently he said the technology is o_pen source,_ so what one can hope for is a local Oz manufacturer getting on board?
> that is if we have a manufacturing industry left.

  It's probably a reasonably safe bet that someone in China will be making them before too long. Question then becomes about quality, since they'll almost certainly do it fairly cheaply (given that practically everything else is made in China these days).

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## woodbe

> yep. not too surprised
> think the Nevada mega factory comes on stream 2016? 
> but apparently he said the technology is o_pen source,_ so what one can hope for is a local Oz manufacturer getting on board?
> that is if we have a manufacturing industry left.

  What tesla is attempting is a game change. They are ramping up production of battery options with the goal of kick starting a massive change in how we power transport, industry and homes. They definitely do not expect to be the only player or winner in the sector. As long as a competitor doesn't kill them, I think they would be quite happy to have them on board. Scaling up production in their gigafactories gives them some protection due to scale. 
Musk has already stated that Tesla cannot possibly fill the market, and that is the reason they are sharing their technology.

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## METRIX

This guy is trying to make a change to the way we think about energy, this is only a small part of his ingenious inventions.
He has put his money where his mount is, and invested almost all his personal fortune to make it happen. 
The American system is so corrupt, that they have banned the sale of TESLA cars in TEXAS, Arizona, Colorado, New Jersey, Virginia.
The reasons they give are TESLA sell direct to anyone who want's to buy one, and there are laws which have been put in place which don;t allow this, instead you have to buy through a dodgy dealership. 
Because TESLA want to deal direct with the customer, and don't require the typical service center they cannot sell in these states (most service is software updates related which is sent wireless to the car)..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7J-tlrkVEE 
I actually saw a Model S in Hornsby last week, and Sydney has the first Supercharger in Darling Harbour, these have been set up to charge your car for Free and are set up to charge themselves up via Solar systems.
They have them all over the US States and Europe right hand versions have only recently been produced. 
TESLA is an amazing company founded by an amazing person, they allow all their technology to be free source, allowing others to develop systems based on their designs, I don't know of any other company that would do that. 
Looking at the opposite end of the greedy scale Apple, is constantly suing Samsung or others for infringing anything they can think of from the size of a button, to the thickness of the plating on a device or any other ridiculous thing thy can come up with, they are both multi Billion dollar companies, only one gets it from greed the other gets if from trying to better the future of this world. 
You can imagine the opposition to his companies product of electric cars and solar plants from the greedy oil companies, there is some very interesting documentaries on TESLA, how they formed, how they were nearly destroyed by corruption from the inside, how they won contracts with NASA to supply replacement technology for the defunct Space Shuttle.

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## FrodoOne

There are two related articles on the Tesla Car(s) and the "Powerwall" in the June 2015 issue of "Silicon Chip".

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## phild01

> There are two related articles on the Tesla Car(s) and the "Powerwall" in the June 2015 issue of "Silicon Chip".

   Haven't bought that mag for over a decade but happened to notice that article last week at Jaycar.  Is it a good in depth read for me to go back and buy?

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## Uncle Bob

> Is it a good in depth read for me to go back and buy?

  There's also part 4 of the really good WeatherDuino DIY weather station system in there too  :Smilie:

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## FrodoOne

> Haven't bought that mag for over a decade but happened to notice that article last week at Jaycar.  Is it a good in depth read for me to go back and buy?

  Well, I found it interesting with a lot of information concerning the car and its features, such as collision avoidance and out-of-lane warning. It was test driven in Sydney. 
(If you want to buy one, the S85 tested sells for AUD $129,000 and a S70 for AUD $99,000.  The numbers indicate the kWh of the battery in each case.) 
It was noted that someone at TESLA has a sense of humor as the two position acceleration mode settings are labeled "Sport" and "Insane" 
The article on the PowerWall did have some more information than what was contained in the video but probably not much more than you may already know. 
You could just flick through the 10 to 14 pages involved (from page 14) to check the headings to see if you think it is worth the $9.95 cost of the magazine.

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## phild01

Thanks for that, might venture back.

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## SilentButDeadly

Both Origin Energy and AGL have teamed up with Bosch to offer an alternative to the Tesla battery system (which incidentally has Oz representation and therefore, one can assume, a production allocation from Tesla...whose pre-production pre-sale numbers can, based on history, always be taken with a grain of salt).  Whether they will match the pricing remains to be seen... 
Zen Energy is Adelaide is making some big claims SA energy company welcomes Tesla competition - InDaily | Adelaide News 
And of course there are others already on the market but they are severely limited by battery costs...

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## FrodoOne

> Both Origin Energy and AGL have teamed up with Bosch to offer an alternative to the Tesla battery system (which incidentally has Oz representation and therefore, one can assume, a production allocation from Tesla...whose pre-production pre-sale numbers can, based on history, always be taken with a grain of salt).  Whether they will match the pricing remains to be seen... 
> Zen Energy is Adelaide is making some big claims SA energy company welcomes Tesla competition - InDaily | Adelaide News 
> And of course there are others already on the market but they are severely limited by battery costs...

  OK,
The point made seems to be that "Both Origin Energy and AGL have teamed up with Bosch to offer an alternative to the Tesla battery system."
If the organisations concerned offer any alternative without "Let or Hindrance" - so be it.
We could get into all sorts of arguments concerning "Intellectual Property", "Patent rights" etc. and as to how these concepts may be  good or bad for human progress. 
I have my opinion and I will tell you now that, having read somewhat on this subject, exclusive rights to patents for even the limited number of years involved are bad for human progress.
Hence, while Elon Musk may have done "The right thing" in possibly allowing others to utilise any or all  his "patents" - without cost/payment, this is no more than that which he and all others should do to advance human progress.
After all, there may be little point in being the richest individual on earth if most of your (poorer) contemporaries are dead.

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## phild01

No patents=no capitalism...yay...all for it, but human nature just gets in the way :Sad1: .

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## woodbe

Removing the patents from the equation does not remove capitalism. Plenty of businesses run without owning patents. What patents allow is rent from an idea and possibly a monopoly if the idea is so profound that society feels the need. Medicines are a classic case...

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## Marc

I find it fascinating when people state matter of fact what those "other", that have more money than them, (yes that shameful quality of being rich beyond their grasp) should do or how they should behave without any strings attached to their own behaviour.
The premise, "What is yours is mine and what is mine is mine" comes to mind.  
Yes, "advance human progress" is such a good line particularly when it must be done with someone else's money and no contribution from our part. ha ha

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## PhilT2

The libertarian form of capitalism favoured by Elon Musk does not accept patents, claiming they are an unreasonable control placed on the "free market" Although Ayn Rand, one of the heroes of libertarians herself supported patents, most do not.

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## SilentButDeadly

The only let or hindrance is the depth of one's pocket...patent or otherwise. If you can...do. If you can't...so be it. Either scenario gives the player no right to be smug...or feel hard done by.

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## woodbe

> The libertarian form of capitalism favoured by Elon Musk does not accept patents, claiming they are an unreasonable control placed on the "free market"

  Actually, this is a bit of a cherry pick. 
Paraphrasing what Elon actually put forward, he acknowledged that Tesla cannot produce products fast enough to make the changes required in the market Tesla operates in. He therefore released the patents so that other potential entrants into the market could ride on the development Tesla had funded to get to market.   

> Given that annual new vehicle production is approaching 100 million per  year and the global fleet is approximately 2 billion cars, it is  impossible for Tesla to build electric cars fast enough to address the  carbon crisis. By the same token, it means the market is enormous. Our  true competition is not the small trickle of non-Tesla electric cars  being produced, but rather the enormous flood of gasoline cars pouring  out of the worlds factories every day.

  All Our Patent Are Belong To You | Tesla Motors Australia

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## PhilT2

Libertarian views on patents are what the comment was meant to convey. Musk's decision to release the Tesla patents may have been made for a number of reasons but they also happen to be consistent with the libertarian philosophies he supports. Other decisions he has made, like accepting large govt subsidies are perhaps not so consistent with those views. Libertarianism comes in many flavours. Watch Sen. Rand Paul do more backflips than Abbott in the primaries as he tries to spin his previous libertarian statements into something that makes him look less weird.

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## woodbe

> Libertarian views on patents are what the comment was meant to convey. Musk's decision to release the Tesla patents may have been made for a number of reasons but they also happen to be consistent with the libertarian philosophies he supports. Other decisions he has made, like accepting large govt subsidies are perhaps not so consistent with those views. Libertarianism comes in many flavours. Watch Sen. Rand Paul do more backflips than Abbott in the primaries as he tries to spin his previous libertarian statements into something that makes him look less weird.

  You said: "No patents=no capitalism". So libertarians are not capitalists? I think they can be, and most probably are... 
Is this thread running off the rails?  :Biggrin:

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## PhilT2

You've got your Phils mixed up.

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## r3nov8or

Think I need some batteries.

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## woodbe

> You've got your Phils mixed up.

  Lol, looks like it.  :Biggrin:

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## UseByDate

Be careful what you order/reserve.
The 10kWh battery is described as a weekly cycle battery and is really intended to provide power during a short grid power outage.
The 7kWh is described as a daily cycle battery and can be used for off grid power supply storage. If you intend to go off grid you would have to redesign your energy use in favour of gas though. The 7kWh battery can only supply 2 kW continuously (short duration slightly more). One electric kettle (2 - 2.4 kW) could overwhelm the system.

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