# Forum Forum Help Desk Introduce Yourself  Hello to all from Melbourne

## rafa

Hi all, have started bathroom reno and have been looking up details for all aspects on this forum.
Great forum and great hints that i need! So far i have stripped out and reinforced recessed floor for walk in shower. Plumbing done, new window in place, weather boards on and not yet seriously hurt myself. 
Have been straightening/packing out walls ready for fc sheeting. Old 40/50's weatherboard house and nothing is square! Top and bottom plates in walls are out by 30mm on one wall. Have to work with what i've got.
Need to get the Scyon fooring down as well. 
I'll definitely need advice along the way and i'll upload some pic's when i work out how. I've made an attempt but not sure if it's right.
cheers -

----------


## OFG

Welcome to Renovate forums rafa! 
Looking forward to seeing some pics of the reno (we <3 pics  :Wink:  )

----------


## old1955

Welcome to the forum.

----------


## rafa

Hi guys, i'm getting there slowly. I need advice on the itting of the floor and wall. I plan on laying the Scyon flooring 1st then the 6mm fc board to the walls with 3-5mm gap filled with Sika fc. My question is regarding the recessed floor area. The wall sides I can cut to fit but wanted to know is it ok to use fc board to make the other 2 sides of the recess area the place water stop angle then sceed? 
Or should i use the scyon offcuts?  
All advice welcome. Cheers Rafa.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

Welcome aboard Rafa, 
Villaboard is the stuff for the shower, FC sheet has no waterproofing rating, and waterproof plasterboard will like any movement. 
Try to lay the floor sheeting with a couple of mm gap to allow for sealant and movement. A brick pattern also helps reduce movement. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

----------


## rafa

> Welcome aboard Rafa, 
> Villaboard is the stuff for the shower, FC sheet has no waterproofing rating, and waterproof plasterboard will like any movement. 
> Try to lay the floor sheeting with a couple of mm gap to allow for sealant and movement. A brick pattern also helps reduce movement. 
> Good luck and fair winds.

  Thanks oldsaltz,
I got the terminology wrong. ( what makes villa board different to fc, is there an additive? ) Its all new to me! 
I do have Villa brd to line the whole room, just wondering if its ok to use to make the sides of the recessed shower area?
Is best practice to screw it into place or use a flexible adhesive?
 Also the room is only 2.1m x 1.8m so don't really have space to lay a brick patern - is this ok? 
thanks for your help.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Thanks Oldsaltoz,
> I got the terminology wrong. ( what makes villa board different to fc, is there an additive? ) Its all new to me! 
> I do have Villa brd to line the whole room, just wondering if its ok to use to make the sides of the recessed shower area?
> Is best practice to screw it into place or use a flexible adhesive?
>  Also the room is only 2.1m x 1.8m so don't really have space to lay a brick pattern - is this ok? 
> thanks for your help.

  Hi Rafa, 
You are on the right track using Villaboard for all walls. 
Fixing the sheeting is normally done horizontally, with the rebated edges meeting in the middle of the wall, this provides for plastering for seamless finish. 
Normal method is to place a small off-cut of the board on the floor, place the new sheet on top of this so it leaves a small gap between floor sheeting and wall sheeting. 
Fixing to the wall is done using dabs of stud adhesive glue and nailing to the frame. (avoid nailing through fresh glue) nail inside the rebated edge where the sheets join so you have a smooth area to plaster the joints. 
Why Villaboard, its more flexible than FC sheeting, and much less easily damaged as plater board. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

----------


## phild01

> ...Fixing to the wall is done using dabs of stud adhesive glue and nailing to the frame.  
> Good luck and fair winds.

  
If you are tiling the wall, don't use adhesive dabs.  Sheets must be closely nailed according to Hardies advice.  I believe the reason being that adhesive only secures the back layer of the board whereas fc nails hold the entire board and being superior because of the weight of the tiles.

----------


## rafa

Thanks guys, i will be tiling the shower wall's up to approx 2.1m high. I have allowed for weight of tiles + adhesive and had planned on using 40mm tufcote corosion resistant screws usually used for decking. Thinking about it though the heads on these won't fit flush without drilling a countersink hole in the villaboard which i assume would weaken it?
 Is it best to stick with 35mm gal nails?
The other walls will be painted.  
My original question related to the recessed shower area. Is the villaboard ok to use to line the outside edges of the recessed box below floor level as in the picture attached? I am then planning on placing water stop then screed and waterproofing over the top.  
As always all advice welcome and thanks for helping out. 
Cheers Rafa

----------


## phild01

Use proper FC gal 2.8 nails, do not use clouts even though they look similar.

----------


## rafa

Thanks PhilD. I have those so will use them, any idea's about the recessed floor edging?

----------


## phild01

I think you mean the side wall to the dropped part of the floor for the shower which means you are wanting to line the joist sides with thin strips of villaboard.  Looking at the pic I am not completely sure what is going on there.  Lack of response might be because are you laying the floor sheeting with a discontinuous separate section for the shower!?  If so, it is a risk if the area is not completely integrated with the general floor area meaning a good application of bond breakers.  I would want to be certain every part of the recessed walls are solid with the rest of the floor area and that the thin villaboard is totally attached with a suitable polyurethane and no nails to be used.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Thanks guys, i will be tiling the shower wall's up to approx 2.1m high.
>  Is it best to stick with 35mm gal nails? Only use the correct nails, drive them flush and cover them with a bit of sealant to help prevent corrosion. 
> The other walls will be painted.  
> My original question related to the recessed shower area. Is the Villaboard ok to use to line the outside edges of the recessed box below floor level as in the picture attached? A better solution would be to use the same material as the floors, you need to eliminate any movement you can in this area.  
>  I am then planning on placing water stop then screed and waterproofing over the top. The waterstop angle MUST end up under the screen, and waterproof up to it, not over it, It's only function is to stop water getting out of the shower and should be hidden between the tiles under the screen.
> Normally fixed to the floor level with the recess in the walls, so not actually 'in' the shower. 
> The same applies to the entry door to the room. 
> As always all advice welcome and thanks for helping out. 
> Cheers Rafa

  Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

----------


## OBBob

Nice ... love the tool storage in the first pic!  :Smilie:

----------


## rafa

> Good luck and fair winds.

  - 
Thanks guys, sorry for the delayed response. Work and life got in the way. I'm actually realy enjoying this project and it is a very steep learning curve for a novice.
_
I have allowed for and built in fall on the floor/joists to run from all walls and the doorway to the linear drain when fitted.
_
As you advise Oldsatz I plan on having the waterstop under glass wall and at the doorway the only thing is the Glass wall is 550mm with a 650mm door attached. I might have started this job ass about as i had bought the glass early in the piece. My theory was to have a hinged door to fold back into the shower area when not in use due to the small size of the room! Of all that i have read I have never come across this so not sure if its suitable. I do realise i will need some serious reinforcment to hold the main panel attached to the wall in place + a top brace from panel to wall so it can hold the weight. Its 10mm glass.
_ 
I have read the comments on this forum relating to the debate regarding waterstop usage under the glass and waterproofing the shower area when the whole room will be waterproofed, effectively making it a wet room and don't see any diffinetive answers.
IMO as you say Oldsaltz the Aus standards are a minimum requirement and i intend to make the most of all options.
- 
In response to your comments Phild01, the discontinuos section you refer to is my recessed floor which i have dropped down by 60mm by notching out the joists. A mate who's a builder came to advise and 2 additional joists have been added + the existing ones have been reinforced by hanging 45x90mm F17 underneath + sistering F17 45x90's to the sides. Wall to floor connections have been reinforced with steel angle's. I know this might be overkill but i don't want to stress about the structure.
_
I intend to still use bond breakers in the lowered recess are as you mention Phild01.
The idea being that the bond break between the solid bathroom floor and the screed base for the shower has some room to flex if any movement occurs. This is where i question the use of a waterstop angle as this definately creates a brake between the areas. If, as in my case the floor slopes to the drain 1 in 80 do you need a waterstop?
_ 
Thanks for your support guys

----------


## Oldsaltoz

QUOTE :Redface:  I question the use of a waterstop angle as this definitely creates a brake between the areas. If, as in my case the  floor slopes to the drain 1 in 80 do you need a waterstop?-:END QUOTE. 
Apart from the waterstop being part of the code, and that it stops the bulk if not all water getting out of the shower.
 The lack of one in your case may well result in a smelly after a few months because moisture is trapped under the larger area of the floor tiles. This damp environment creates perfect conditions for mold and other wet area greeblies to grow. 
Ever walked into an old bathroom and wondered where that musty smell is coming from?
Now you know. 
Good luck and fair winds.

----------


## phild01

For what it is worth and repeating, waterproofing over the screed is the way to go.  My recent shower has waterproofing immediately below the tiles and I notice how fresh and dry the floor always seems, dries out very quickly.

----------


## rafa

Thanks again for the feedback, 
I finally have the Scyon in place and have sealed all cut edges as recomended by JH.
Would have more done but haven't been 100% lately.  
Oldsaltz, I do intend to use a water stop with the shower glass on the inside of the shower area and at the doorway. 
I had also considered using a waterstop / aluminium angle up the wall under the tiles and adhesive just to ensure water running down the wall area has no chance of getting past to the door framing which would only be about 80mm away. Have not heard of this being done and would appreciate your thoughts.
_
Phild01, i will follow your suggestion and all waterproofing will be on the top of the screed. Had been weighing up which way to go but you've tipped the me over the line for doing it on top. 
thanks again for your help,

----------


## phild01

> _
> Phild01, i will follow your suggestion and all waterproofing will be on the top of the screed. Had been weighing up which way to go but you've tipped the me over the line for doing it on top. 
> thanks again for your help,

  Good to hear this, just be sure the screed has had ample time to fully cure before applying waterproofing, the main reason trades tend not to do it this way... the waiting!

----------


## Oldsaltoz

> Oldsaltoz, I do intend to use a water stop with the shower glass on the inside of the shower area and at the doorway. 
> I had also considered using a waterstop / aluminium angle up the wall under the tiles and adhesive just to ensure water running down the wall area has no chance of getting past to the door framing which would only be about 80mm away. Have not heard of this being done and would appreciate your thoughts. 
> thanks again for your help,

  The tile glue on the walls should be spread from the bottom up, leaving vertical lines from the gaps in the trowel, any water then runs down between the glue lines. There is no need to add another angle.
This works on showers where the tiles end at the shower screen with no problems at all. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:  
PS. Hope you are feeling better.

----------


## rafa

Adhesive applied vertically it is. Makes perfect senseto have water channelled top top bottom.  
At the rate i'm getting a chance to do things i don't think there'll be a problem letting the screed cure. 
One the Mapei website  pdf technical data for screeds is states 7-10 days drying time per centre meter for traditional screed (page 22 od pdf). Being winter in Melbourne and the max depth i have of 5.5cm i'm looking at 50 days! 
Any advice if this is an accurate estimate?
- i do like this pdf although its generally all about their products it does have good general info as well and no i don't have any affiliation to them.
thanks again for feedback. http://www.mapei.com/public/IT/lined...SETTI%20GB.pdf

----------


## phild01

> Adhesive applied vertically it is. Makes perfect senseto have water channelled top top bottom.  
> At the rate i'm getting a chance to do things i don't think there'll be a problem letting the screed cure. 
> One the Mapei website  pdf technical data for screeds is states 7-10 days drying time per centre meter for traditional screed (page 22 od pdf). Being winter in Melbourne and the max depth i have of 5.5cm i'm looking at 50 days! 
> Any advice if this is an accurate estimate?
> - i do like this pdf although its generally all about their products it does have good general info as well and no i don't have any affiliation to them.
> thanks again for feedback. http://www.mapei.com/public/IT/lined...SETTI%20GB.pdf

  I would think 14 days for that thickness to be adequate.  To be sure, leave a piece of plastic over a section and check after a few days for any moisture it traps.  If dry, you should be right.

----------


## Oldsaltoz

The simple fact that this is OVER the screed means any moisture in the screed will get away through the the base that has not been waterproofed. 
So once it's gone off you will ok. The simple and time proven method is to a fan, then look a change in colour, it should get lighter. At this point put you hand palm down onto the surface, if it's really cold leave another day and test again. as soon as it gets even a tiny bit warmer you are right to go. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

----------

