# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Ideas for farm road

## ringtail

Hi all. I need some outside the square ideas for an access road into my rural property. It has a easement to gain access and the easement crosses ground that is absolutely treacherous in any amount of rain. Like, seriously, seriously dangerous slippery stuff. The easement is about 800 mt long and varies from flat ground to ridge top with only one short rise of about 9 mt in elevation. Because the easement goes through a cattle farm the cows do their best to destroy everything when it rains. 200 cows walking in a line 300 mm wide soon carves a massive trench. So,I've taken to filling the cow trenches with roadbase and luckily some of them line up to make a good pair of wheel tracks. However, we got nearly 400 mm of rain last week and the road base is completely gone. The current track is impassable with just a shower of rain so a long term solution is needed pronto - so I can get in there and build my off grid cabin. Things I've thought of / considered are 
1. traditional road base type of road - will mean machinery and lots of expense and no guarantee it will survive a deluge let alone the cows
2. paving two wheel tracks all the way using either - rocks from the creek (plenty) or DIY concrete pavers cast in a mould at home and transported to site
3. pave two wheel tracks with besser blocks and fill them with gravel
4. weld up steel frames to form 2 wheel tracks and fill with gravel
5. lay some sort of matting down
6. horizontal gabions 
Things to rule out based on cost 
1 bitumen - too expensive
2 full concrete 
3 proper graded gravel road 
Bearing in mind that it is not my land and whilst having an awesome road would be great, improving someone elses land value is not my bag  :Biggrin: 
The property has no power or water and machinery would be limited to about 3 tonne. Another fella uses the easement too so there is a possibility of splitting the costs. He is not strictly obliged to contribute though. Any and all oddball, left field suggestions are most welcome. 
Cheers.

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## jatt

As usual pics always help. 
Ok eliminating (or at least minimising) the elements that are stuffing the road are your first priority.  Understand you dont wanna spend more than needed.  Not sure of ins and outs of your situation; agreements (legal etc...) 
1.  The cows.  Can you use an electric fence to keep em off your road?  Even if you have to run a line across the road at a point with an insulated handle, so you can grab and put up/take down to get thru. 2 wires should be enough.  Cattle grid at one spot? 
2. Washout due to rain.  Directing the water off and away from the road as much as reasonably possible.  Using the lay of the land with pipes, drains/ditches.  Would price up large PVC pipes (easier to work with than conc), of min 200 mm.  You obviously get decent downpours there. 
Cause without addressing these 2 issues, recon you will be throwing $ down the dunny. 
Just my 2 bobs worth

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## Uncle Bob

Jatt's on the money. 
Culverts and fencing are going to be your best bet.
Probably next is a concrete road.

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## ringtail

The issue is not the cows or the water, although the water will definitely need culverts etc..., it's the actual surface of the track.  When it rains lightly, I can park my 2 T 4x4, get out and push it sideways with little effort. No joke, it is scary. The first time I got caught there I had to deliberately bounce the 4b down the side of a felled tree to stop me from sliding into a 15 foot gully. Profiling the surface for run off, turnouts and culverts will come when a suitable surface is found.

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## shauck

Hard problem to solve. Best of luck with it. Reminds me of a mate who has a bush mill. He used all the first lengthways cuts of the tree, with all the bark attached and layed tracks in a gully so he could access the area with his quad bike. He plants lots of european trees in that gully. He's only leasing the land so not going to make tracks that use expensive materials. Anyway, these tracks were ok, considering. Maybe a bit too far left field.

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## ringtail

Nothing is too far left field Su  :Tongue: . I'm heading out there today to repair some creek crossings so I'll take some pics. I have a video of it but its so shaky it would turn stomachs  :Biggrin:

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## goldie1

Now if you had only asked this question 60 years ago when there was all that marston matting  
laying around after the war  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Perfect !  :Biggrin:   Marsden Matting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## goldie1

Couple more idears Sommerfeld Tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  Corduroy road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Moondog55

Big pole seriously concreted in as a permanent winching point?
Old tyres [ usually free] wired together staked down and filled with rubble?
Quick fence and plant something fast growing to suck up all that water and perhaps give you all a side crop of firewood?
Tell the cops there is a tonne of something illegal buried under the ground there and apply for compensation afterwards to pay for a real road :No:  
Get some white lime paint and paint a series of lines across where you drive, cows seem to avoid these for some reason. 
Any chance of a second hand Bailley bridge? or something similar you can take with you at a future time??

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## ToneG

Why not just get a trailer behind one of these... :Wink:

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## CraigandKate

New tyres are the go, cheapest and easiest option:

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## SilentButDeadly

Ringtail....your option 3 worked at my uncle's place when it was developed 30 years ago. They are still there... 
Big job though and they might really need to be battered either side with rubble to protect them from washout and cow dancing. 
If you go with roadbase then the cows will beat the daylights out of it and personal experience has seen it wander off the hill during decent rain.  You'd need some ground stabilisation products like this http://www.maccaferri.com.au/wawcs01...=195/Pavements to try and hold it together.  You could also ask them about their Reno Mattress gabions for parts of the track but they'd probably be prohibitively expensive to fill even at only 170mm thick http://www.maccaferri.com.au/wawcs01...eno_mattresses

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## ringtail

Thanks for the replies all. Will keep researching and looking at the supplied links. A few more points of interest. 
- Used tyres are out due to the possible contamination factor ( easement agreement)
- I have to keep the easement in reasonable trafficable condition so a tank or the superswampers are out  :Biggrin: , although a set of good muddies would be fun - until the drive home  
I just got home from out there and I took a heap of snaps of the easement. They start with the one where the Pajero is parked - and yes, that's a frikken cow track. Go to the last picture ( with the car) and hit previous to get them in the right sequence.

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## Moondog55

That's a shame as I thought the used tyre idea was a good one

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## goldie1

Low impact transport problem solved

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## ringtail

Moondog, me too. I can get as many as I want too. I might still approach the owner about them. 
Goldie, you ever driven a hovercraft ? I think 5 acres of totally cleared land is not enough for one of those :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## goldie1

> Goldie, you ever driven a hovercraft ? I think 5 acres of totally cleared land is not enough for one of those

  No  I am just coming up with suggestions. The logistics are your problem :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Good website that one SBD  :2thumbsup:

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## goldie1

Is it feasible to keep the cattle of the area? That would solve half the problem. 
This may be of interest http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/factsheets/pdf/land/l240.pdf

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## Moondog55

Good information there Goldie
Bookmarked for future reference

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## ringtail

Got that one bookmarked Goldie. Re the cattle, yep I guess so but at substantial cost. It would actually be harder than I first thought though. As there are cows on both sides of the track the farmer would have t come up and open and close gates etc.... Now farmers being farmers, that sounds like hard work. 
I'm liking the flat gabions or mattresses. I suspect something similar could be made using gal reo to form a cage then filled with rocks. Have to do the figures.

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## Moondog55

Why bother with gal reo? Second quality black or bright would last 10 to 12 years surely, by which time other measures may well have stabilised things?

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## Bedford

It looks like the country is swampy to me? 
800 meters is a fair way to go without spending a heap of dough. 
Depending how far you have to cart stuff it might be worth looking for contractors trying to get rid of old busted concrete. 
Reversing in, dumping, then pushing into place with a backhoe/loader will build it strong enough to keep reversing trucks in with out bogging them. 
You'd still need to look into "run off" drains on the inclined parts, but not much you can do in the low parts other than build it higher.

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## goldie1

> Got that one bookmarked Goldie. Re the cattle, yep I guess so but at substantial cost. It would actually be harder than I first thought though. As there are cows on both sides of the track the farmer would have t come up and open and close gates etc.... Now farmers being farmers, that sounds like hard work. 
> I'm liking the flat gabions or mattresses. I suspect something similar could be made using gal reo to form a cage then filled with rocks. Have to do the figures.

  Know what you mean plus you being an outsider coming in upsetting their routines. Here is  
another mob selling control products http://www.aussieerosion.com.au/prod...ntrol-blankets  
And they are from Qld. know how  what you Queenslanders  are like about buying stuff from 
southerners  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Oh for sure. The farmer's response when I asked him about the easement was " oh, we just don't go in there when it's wet " . He seems to not understand that we want access to our property 24/7 regardless of weather, within reason. And that if we are in there and it rains and we have to get out in a hurry ( think snake bite, injury etc...) it would be next to impossible, even with 5 mm of rain. He is pretty accommodating though and I think he will be fine with whatever solution we come up with. After all, it will also allow him access in the wet.

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## intertd6

It would seem that with your right of way over the other property your going to have to make the improvements to the access on your own & that would be crowning the profile of the track , drains & some sort of gravel surface, when it comes to the gravel it looks like there is some patches on the existing track in some cuttings, just a matter of cut carry & fill, it's going to cost & in some cases it's economical to buy an old backhoe to do the job then sell it after the jobs completed. It wise to have all weather access that is an improvement even though it's not on your property.
regards inter

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## ringtail

That's my roadbase inter :Tongue:  Unfortunately the weather set in before I could finish the trenching ( by hand). The 400 mm of rain over 3 days + cows made short work of it  :Biggrin:  I had no choice but to abandon it and cross my fingers. I thought it would have washed out worse than that actually. Absolutely no way I'm doing a full gravel road. It would cost 50 grand to do it properly and the amount of rain the place gets makes it too risky I reckon. Something much simpler, much stronger and much cheaper is in order. I don't care if its bumpy access, as long as its access. Gabion cages in trenches sounds like a winner to me.

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## phild01

The thing that keeps crossing my mind is this a right of way servicing more than one property with each title embodying part of it.  I thought the deeds would include a clause that upkeep is a shared cost between the owners.  Sorry, not able to help with the solution.

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## Farmer Geoff

Whatever you do will add or subtract from the value of your property and your enjoyment of it.  There seems to be a firm bottom in it so a dozer or grader could probably form up a crowned road with existing material after stripping off the grass and then could top with gravel.  As long as drainage was okay it should last well - flat enough to not erode edge drains.  This sort of road will add value but it needs a good topping as a slip off the crown into the borrow ditch will be a bad end. 
I'd caution against tyres or anything involving steel or wire. A lot of digging is required to bury tyres and a lot of imported material needed to fill them and then they will still want to float to surface, get caught under bogged vehicles etc.  Wire or steel will eventually rust or break and then puncture a spinning wheel under the mud. 
As an interim measure, a pile of crushed concrete or something like 35mm rock with no fines could be used in wheel ruts as they appear. I see a lot of farm tracks where this temporary fix has lasted for decades! 
You may be able to encourage cattle to take a different path by fashioning a few barriers of orange conduit attached to steel posts with spring hinges. Cattle will probably go around them but vehicle can slowly drive through them as they hinge aside. Move them as required. Outwitting animals is sometimes a fun challenge.

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## ringtail

> The thing that keeps crossing my mind is this a right of way servicing more than one property with each title embodying part of it.  I thought the deeds would include a clause that upkeep is a shared cost between the owners.  Sorry, not able to help with the solution.

  
The other lot that shares the easement right of way has the same responsibilities as me but if he chooses not to use his property ( hasn't been there for at least 6 months) then it's up to me to make "improvements" . If it was a matter of a complete rebuild because there was NO access it would be different, he would have to contribute. As it stands, there is access, just not in the rain.

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## ringtail

> as a slip off the crown into the borrow ditch will be a bad end.   
> As an interim measure, a pile of crushed concrete or something like 35mm rock with no fines could be used in wheel ruts as they appear. I see a lot of farm tracks where this temporary fix has lasted for decades!    
>  Outwitting animals is sometimes a fun challenge.

  
Yep, already experience the slip factor. Either way, importing material is the only real option regardless of what form the track takes.  
Fortunately, the farmers cows are really quiet and not at all skittish which makes everything a bit easier, sort of. :Biggrin:  Maybe a solar electric fence with one wire could be the go. Almost impossible to keep them off the track though without putting grids in

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## The Bleeder

Ringtail, 
I would be inclined to find the problem areas of the track and deal with those. 
Busted up concrete is probably the best solution as it will compact down each time you drive over it. (won't be as slippery either) 
Where the concrete is layed a few star pickets and wire down each side and the cows will find another way to go. (they won't like walking on it) 
Now for the Pajero....using normal highway tyres. You may need to to go not necessarily mud tyre be a combo All Terrain Radial.  
p.s. you do put it in 4 wheel drive.....as I look at the photos it don't look too bad.....I've put my cruiser through worse.

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## ringtail

> Ringtail, 
> I would be inclined to find the problem areas of the track and deal with those. 
> Busted up concrete is probably the best solution as it will compact down each time you drive over it. (won't be as slippery either) 
> Where the concrete is layed a few star pickets and wire down each side and the cows will find another way to go. (they won't like walking on it) 
> Now for the Pajero....using normal highway tyres. You may need to to go not necessarily mud tyre be a combo All Terrain Radial.  
> p.s. you do put it in 4 wheel drive.....as I look at the photos it don't look too bad.....I've put my cruiser through worse.

  The enitre track is the problem. Well, from where the pipes are in the drain gully onwards anyway. 
I'm running falken wildpeak A/T's which are on of the most aggresive AT 's out there. I have been 4x4ing for over 30 years so I know what I'm doing in that regard. I aired down to 12 psi the other day and it was better but still not good. As far as looks go, that's the issue. It looks mellow. Very, very tame and easy 2wd in the dry. Ive taken a 2wd hilux ute in there no drama at all. But when wet, it's evil I tells ya :Biggrin: . One of those tracks thats catches out even the most experienced. I guess I could put muddies on and teararse through it but thats not a solution, unfortunately

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## ringtail

> It looks like the country is swampy to me? 
> 800 meters is a fair way to go without spending a heap of dough. 
> Depending how far you have to cart stuff it might be worth looking for contractors trying to get rid of old busted concrete. 
> Reversing in, dumping, then pushing into place with a backhoe/loader will build it strong enough to keep reversing trucks in with out bogging them. 
> You'd still need to look into "run off" drains on the inclined parts, but not much you can do in the low parts other than build it higher.

  Yep Bedford, the lower section runs along the creek and cops all the run off from the hills above and stays more moist. Then, once across the section with the pipes it starts to rise and goes up the hill. the hill is white clay and totally different to the black soil of the rest of the track. Once at the top of the hill it levels out before dropping into a dip where the large tree is down. From there is rises up briefly before dropping right back down to the creek again and into our land. I had the soil testers in there a few weeks ago and they did a perc test for a potential septic system. The soil is pretty reactive but also free draining.

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## toooldforthis

what about laying out some old *railway track*?
doesn't have to be fancy. or you could even go the whole cattle grid route.
I sometimes see it for sale on gumtree and ebay. In fact I saw some on gumtree just last week but I couldn't handle the long lengths on my own.

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## The Bleeder

Ringtail, 
I was brought up on a farm. Being driving farm utes and 4X4 since the mid sixties. 
One thing I was taught was in mud don't air down, if anything air up. With modern 4X4 wide tyres the bag effect causes it to float (hence you can push them sideways). 
Think of driving on a wet road, low tyre pressure and you aquaplane very quickly. 
I'll make this suggestion, get some 'diamond chains' not 'ladder chains' and use these when it's wet.  
You'll be suprised where you can then go. Ladder chains act like big diggers and what you want is something to bite through the mud but not dig it out making the problem worse.

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## ringtail

I aired down mainly for the rocky creek crossings that I had to rebuild. The drama with my tyres is the load rating is really high as they should be on a cruiser ( heavier with higher GVM) so they dont bag out well at all. However, without getting into the old wide or narrow tyre debate, bigger footprint certainly works great on the rocks and Ive found it to be generally much better on all types of terrain. I've wondered about chains. They turn the normal 4b into a mud machine  :Biggrin:  and they would probably dig my trenches for me  :Tongue:

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## ringtail

> what about laying out some old *railway track*?
> doesn't have to be fancy. or you could even go the whole cattle grid route.
> I sometimes see it for sale on gumtree and ebay. In fact I saw some on gumtree just last week but I couldn't handle the long lengths on my own.

  If some ( a lot) came along cheap enough it would be good. Geez it would be heavy too.

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## Jackson.baker

The only thing I can think of that is relatively cheap is buy your own machines, and get some gravel delivered. I live out Gold Coast hinterland and have a 150m steep driveway that in the wet I couldn't get up with front and rear lockers in a landcruiser. Now with some gravel and drainage, even with the nearly 400mm we had the other week you could drive and front wheel drive car up there no prionlems. The gravel was less than $1000, and the machines have been so bloody handy to have on a property.

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## intertd6

Well if you want really cheap, then strips of used heavy chain wire  pinned down with heavy staples ( r10 ) over the wheel tracks maybe the go, I have seen it used as a simple traction aid before.
regards inter

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## ringtail

I'd love to have an excavator but dollars only allow DIY hire at the moment. One day. Tractor first though. Gravel is the go I think. Inter, no doubt the chains would probably work. I suspect the cost of them would be more than gravel. The drag chain I bought for moving logs is only 6 mm and its $13 per mt.

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## The Bleeder

> I've wondered about chains. They turn the normal 4b into a mud machine  and they would probably dig my trenches for me

  Ladder chains will do a great job of that but I think that's not what you want.  
Diamond chains have chain that is always in contact with the surface. I's a diamond pattern on the tread. They won't dig as as bad as ladder chains.

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## SilentButDeadly

How much timber do you have access to? 
If you have a bit then try a corduroy road Corduroy road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## ringtail

I have literally mountains of timber. Might give it a go in a well chosen spot. Cheers.

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## Bros

I don't know weather these would interest you or not but they were used for access over mud flats as I had a mate who was interested in a previous lot. They went for over $300 but I don't know how much over so he lost interest then.  Shipping Containers Dura-BASE Matts and General Plant

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## ringtail

Cheers for that Bros. I'll look into them.

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## ringtail

Just checked the auction sale price for those and it was $2800 for 10 beaten up ones. It would give me a lineal mt. length of 42 mt. I can buy a awful lot of gravel for 3 grand. Oh well, worth a look.  I used my drag grader to greatly improve the surface of the easement. It's now quite smooth and just needs a topping of rock/gravel with a few turn outs and whoaboys to hopefully make it wet weather useable.

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## Bros

I looked at it and they range from $209 to $309

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## ringtail

Yesterday arvo I clicked that link again and the auction had ended. $ 2800 ish. If you go to it now there are new lots that end today. Be interesting to see what they go for.

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## Bros

I know what happened to me and it is a problem with Google Chrome in that it goes to the cache instead of updating the page so I wasn't getting the correct update.  
A pain in the probational.

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## ringtail

So, with 1 hour to go, the durabase mats are at $ 3500

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## Bros

> So, with 1 hour to go, the durabase mats are at $ 3500

  Yes I looked at that after I found out how to update Chrome. Mate told me that are a couple of thousand each. I notice in the bid history they look like going to WA, must be boggy there. 
Anyhow back to plan B for you.

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## ringtail

Yep, good thing there is a plan B. And C  :Biggrin:

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## Uncle Bob

> I know what happened to me and it is a problem with Google Chrome in that it goes to the cache instead of updating the page so I wasn't getting the correct update.  
> A pain in the probational.

  A Ctrl+F5 should request a new page load. 
The idea of logs sounds like a good idea. I saw them doing the same thing on Gold Rush and it got them out of trouble a few times.

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## TheAngryChook

I have a fair bit of experience in building roads.
If you have heaps of small timber then cording it is a good idea. We cover ours with gravel or shale and use it for road train access through pure mica and clay areas. Very popular in NZ forestry too where it is very wet and steep. 
Other than that you need to crown it so the middle of the road is highest and the water runs off into a table drain along side. Anything flat and it will hold the water and continue to be impassable. Gravel or similar rocky material would help out. Key is to make the roadway you are driving on higher than the surrounding ground. Otherwise you will always have water saturation issues. 
Try to avoid using anything like steel or tyres as they will always cause problems with getting stuck or puncturing tyres and there's nothing more infuriating than being bogged with a flat tyre.

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## ringtail

Agree. The biggest issue with construction are the cows that are active 24 hrs a day. I've been pulling my drag grader over the track a lot which is working great. It smoothes it out but also pulls a lot of rocks up which I leave in place for traction. I'll have to bite the bullet soon and start with the gravelling and making some turnouts. Most of the track has a cross slope so crowning is not really an option. I think turnouts in well chosen places will shed water well.

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## TheAngryChook

I should also have said that 400mm in a day will test out anything! Just keep going with the drag grader when you can because if you put gravel down there is still the likelihood that it will all wash away with the mass amounts of water you have.

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## Bros

I saw some of those slabs the other day and they were at least 100mm thick and they were heavy, you could drive a tank over then.

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## ringtail

If I can prep the track right and get some gravel down the cows might actually work in my favour by compacting it a bit. The " real road" that leads into the area is standard road base, covered with cows and has no damage at all apart from a bit of water damage from the  flooding. Those mats look awesome, pity about the price of them. I guess it's peanuts for mining companies etc.....

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## ringtail

> Interested in what became ot the tyre and gravel idae myself; and what the final road will be?

  
Absolutely no tyres allowed. One of the easement conditions is - do nothing to contaminate the land- so tyres are out. My plans is to use the backhoe with a 450 bucket two pull two wheel tracks about 300 mm deep. I'll then lay geotectile road fabric in the trenchs and fill with 40/80 gravel or similar. Maybe a layer of 20 with fines on top. The entire track has a good cross slope at present so I'll just dig some turnouts where needed. That's the plan anyway. Whether it comes off or not, time will tell. I could even fabricate a ripper to tow behind the 4b to create the trenches but then I would have to move the dirt manually.

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## phild01

old thread -bump request.

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## ringtail

I thought I better update this thread as plenty has happened in the last year and a half. The road is no longer an issue. I have hit the winning combination that has so far beaten the weather and the cows. I built a trencher to tow behind the Pajero. Basically a boom with two 600 mm digging buckets. The poor old bus worked really hard for weeks on end but got the job done no problem. It's probably a few inches longer now  :Biggrin:  . So back to the beginning. The "problem" section of our easement starts with a slight uphill blacksoil section. We filled in the existing cow trenches with flat granite rocks from the creek and mortared them in place. Sort of a half arsed Roman Road. It's still there and works well but was very labour intensive. After this section we move into the new trenches dug with the car. There is a small culvert that already had some pipes and gravel in place. I chose 40/80 recycled concrete as the trench filling material. The theory being that it's large enough to not get pushed into the blacksoil too badly and it's all sorts of shapes that should hold well in position and give a good rough surface for traction. Anyway, over the culvert section I laid the 40/80 and also went nuts and made some 400x400x100 pavers just for "fun". The other theory with the trenches was that the grass should eventually grow through the gravel and lock it in. After the culvert there is a steep uphill section of about 60 mt. I tried the gravel there but it kept getting pulled out by tires. I ended up laying a concrete slurry over the top of the gravel ( about 70 ish mm thick) and this has worked great. The hill, which posed the biggest danger in the wet is now a non event. After the hill it all levels off before dropping again into our property. The gravel in this flatter section has been pushed in to the blacksoil a bit but has "set" and not disappeared despite the constant pounding from the cows. The beefy buggers tend to walk down the middle of the gravel trenches now  :Mad:  . An issue I'll deal with later. So I have a little bit more to do to finish the road off and a bit of "top up gravel" to add here and there but the biggest plus is the backhoe I now have  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin: . Today I modified the trencher to fit on the backhoe bucket. No doubt some will think this is odd and why not just dig the trenches with the backhoe ? Well, it's a really old backhoe so it doesn't have side shift. So I'd have to position the boom directly in line with where I wanted the wheel track. So straddling the trench. For the most part, this is not possible as there is no flat ground off the sides of the track. And I can only dig one track at a time. At least I'll be able to actually dig the trenches now instead of just dragging until they got deep enough. The backhoe trencher gets it's first workout this weekend so all the trenching pics were done with the poor car. I'll let the pics do the talking.

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## ringtail

Some more pics

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## ringtail

And the mods to fit the boom and buckets to the backhoe. Looks brutal and should work a treat

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## OBBob

Nice spot.

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## PlatypusGardens

Nice work.  
Love the backhoe attachment

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## ringtail

> Nice spot.

  None of it except the grass in the last pics is ours  :Biggrin:  . I better put some pics of our place up eh

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## ringtail

A few pics of our joint. I'll do some before and afters later on as it's considerably different now as to when we bought it.

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## OBBob

Still looks like a nice spot. Is that last pic a selfie?

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## Marc

The cows look perplexed ... what happened here? ...  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> Is that last pic a selfie?

  
You know it  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> The cows look perplexed ... what happened here? ...

  They are funny things. As an animal I quite like them. They have good personalities. They're hypnotic to watch, like chooks.Tasty too. Unfortunately they are incredibly destructive and legislation needs to be put in place to make farmers fence off all creek and river banks.

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## toooldforthis

as always, someone does a good job and there's always one to come along and lay @@@@ on it

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## ringtail

Every day.  :Biggrin:

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## PlatypusGardens

> They are funny things. As an animal I quite like them. They have good personalities. They're hypnotic to watch, like chooks.Tasty too.

  
I love cows 
alive or on my plate   :Smilie:

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## ringtail

There are a few older girls that seem to be continually up the duff. Poor buggers are huge and I feel bad making them get up when they lie on the road.

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## ringtail

> as always, someone does a good job and there's always one to come along and lay @@@@ on it

  
Like this ? Look at the hoof prints all over it. Bloody cow dance party

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## Uncle Bob

Nice looking "Neck of the woods" there!

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## goldie1

Nice bit of road work. Do you have plans for the place or just some where to chill out

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## ringtail

Yep, we are establishing a coffee farm. Or attempting to anyway. Going really well so far with 200 trees in the ground. Looking for 1000 spread around the property. Will also be doing farmstays and there will be a couple of glamping cabin set ups up on the ridges. So heaps to do but at the moment we are busy undoing the damage of 45 years of cattle farming

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## ringtail

> Nice looking "Neck of the woods" there!

  It's frikken awesome UB and exactly 1 hour farmgate to front door.

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## ringtail

Oh, 45 m3 of gravel all moved in the custom 6x4 tipper trailer ( can't get trucks in, yet)

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## OBBob

> Yep, we are establishing a coffee farm.

  He he... you're going to need a MiniPresso for off-grid coffee sampling!

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## PlatypusGardens

> 1 hour farmgate to front door.

   :Shock:  
What, by car?   :Unsure:

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## OBBob

> What, by car?

  I assume he means from home to the farm PG. Not from the gate to the caravan.

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## ringtail

Yep, Bris to farm - depending on the grey nomads   :Tongue:

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## PlatypusGardens

> I assume he means from home to the farm PG. Not from the gate to the caravan.

  Hehe thought as much  :Wink:

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## OBBob

> Hehe thought as much

  
Sure you didn't envisage him trecking in on a Yak?

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## PlatypusGardens

> Sure you didn't envisage him trecking in on a Yak?

  
Mmm no....more like an Alpaca-drawn chariot

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## ringtail

> Mmm no....more like an Alpaca-drawn chariot

  
Old mate down the road has some of those stoopid mini pony things

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## OBBob

technically a mini camel I think.

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## ringtail

> He he... you're going to need a MiniPresso for off-grid coffee sampling!

  Not bloody likely !  :Tongue:   
 Atomic does a great job off grid   :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> technically a mini camel I think.

  
They certainly look like a horse designed by a committee. Oh wait, that's a camel.  :Biggrin: . Thoses mini pony things freak me out. Just not right

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## PlatypusGardens

> They certainly look like a horse designed by a committee. Oh wait, that's a camel. . Thoses mini pony things freak me out. Just not right

     :Shock:  Look at the size of that 
cowboy hat.....didn't know they made them that small  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):          
Can I eat it?

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## OBBob

> Not bloody likely !   
>  Atomic does a great job off grid

  
A bit heavier to carry on the Alpaca though! Boiling your water in aluminium explains some of your comments though ... bahahahhaha.  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

A few more farm shots. Pre and post lantana clearing

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## PlatypusGardens

How you doin?              
Photobomb!!!!               
Meh               
We got a sweet _two for the price of one_ deal at the shearers  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> A bit heavier to carry on the Alpaca though! Boiling your water in aluminium explains some of your comments though ... bahahahhaha.

  You're not one of those anti aluminium people are ya ?

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## PlatypusGardens

> A few more farm shots. Pre and post lantana clearing

  
What's with the highlighted tree branch?   :Unsure:

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## ringtail

Another fella down the road had a few of them. Wild dogs got them all over 3 nights. 1 donkey too which surprised me.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Another fella down the road had a few of them. Wild dogs got them all.

  Mini horses, alpacas or tree branches?

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## ringtail

> What's with the highlighted tree branch?

  Reference point 
GOD DAM 90 FRIKKEN SECOND RULE !!!!! Someone please get rid of it

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## PlatypusGardens

> GOD DAM 90 FRIKKEN SECOND RULE !!!!! Someone please get rid of it

  Noooo we can't do thattttttttt everyone would post too much crap then   :Rolleyes:

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## ringtail

GOD DAM 90 BASTARD SECOND RULE !!!!!! 
Alpacas

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## PlatypusGardens

(55 seconds later)   :Rofl5:

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## PlatypusGardens



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## OBBob

> You're not one of those anti aluminium people are ya ?

  Nah ... just trying to stir you up! Those machines are very cool but a slightly different price point.   :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> 

  Ha ha... emoticon protesters!

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## ringtail

Farm comfort can't be ignored, for some.

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## ringtail

> Nah ... just trying to stir you up! Those machines are very cool but a slightly different price point.

  What's the mini press cost these days ? I was lucky and scored that brown atomic for $300. put a seal in it a new back cap/relief valve and away we went. I scored another that needs some work for $180. The vary wildly on price. I've seen them around $1k before

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## OBBob

US$60 delivered.

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## phild01

> US$60 delivered.

  Where did you see that, I only found them around 90 seco...err dollars.

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## OBBob

> Where did you see that, I only found them around 90 seco...err dollars.

  Order direct from Wacaco ... they arrive by TNT in a couple of days. It's USD so it's about $78 AUD at the moment.  http://www.wacaco.com/collections/shop

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## ringtail

How it looked when we bought it. A flogged out cow paddock. That reference tree is somewhere in that first pic

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## OBBob

The last one isn't a selfish is it?

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## Marc

> What, by car?

   ha ha, he meant from his other house, but I know a chap who lives 115 K from his letterbox at the front gate ...  :Smilie:

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## Marc

> The last one isn't a selfish is it?

  Yes he is selfish, he does not share ...  :Rofl5:

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## OBBob

> Yes he is selfish, he does not share ...

  Aarrg... I meant shell fish, oh no... selfie!

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## Marc

You mean Sofie?

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## PlatypusGardens

Good lord, I leave you clowns alone for an hour and look what happens

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## ringtail

> Aarrg... I meant shell fish, oh no... selfie!

  Bwahaha, I wish I looked as good as the other half.

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## ringtail

> Good lord, I leave you clowns alone for an hour and look what happens

  Agree.  :Biggrin:

----------


## goldie1

> Yep, we are establishing a coffee farm. Or attempting to anyway. Going really well so far with 200 trees in the ground. Looking for 1000 spread around the property. Will also be doing farmstays and there will be a couple of glamping cabin set ups up on the ridges. So heaps to do but at the moment we are busy undoing the damage of 45 years of cattle farming

  This bloke might interest you if you are interested in long term value adding   - Agroforestry

----------


## woodbe

> I'm running falken wildpeak A/T's which are on of the most aggresive AT 's out there.

  Not really the most aggressive A/T   
Ok side blocks but the centre of the tyre has little mud traction. Needs to be more open. Also has minimal side biters. Probably ok for 90% road use with occasional offroad. 
Might be worth stepping up a bit. How about the Mickey Thompson ATZ P3    
Now we're talking.  :Smilie:  
Pure muddies like the MT MTZ would be better on the track, but not as good on the highway. I guess it depends on the amount of track time you're in for.

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## OBBob

I'd just go straight to the off-road Aerial Atom...

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## ringtail

Those tyres are long gone now. Running toyo AT2's now and they're awesome. Muddies are soooooo over rated. Rubbish on the road ( where lets face it, 90% the use is) noisy as and generally not warranted. Good AT's will do most things and then go for the winch. Most people run AT's at Cape York no worries at all. My rule is if you don't need to go there, don't. If it's wet and all one is going to do is chew up the track, then don't. It's all an image promoted by publications like 4wd Action where they tear @@@@ around destroying every track they touch. Besides, I have a road now so a front wheel drive road car can get in there now all weather. Well, most weather. Still 3 creek crossings that get gnarly in a flood. Oh, those MickyT's cost twice as much as the toyos are are definitely not twice the tyre.

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## ringtail

Definitely going to build a buggy unless one comes up cheap on gumtree etc... Was thinking of a suzuki sierra chassis with a full  cage and ultra aggressive ATV tyres

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## ringtail

The toyos  http://toyotires.com.au/tyres/suv-4x...country-a-t-ii

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## OBBob

Carport near the front gate and divert the funds from the road to the buggy!   :Biggrin:  Actually know someone with rather a nice road car that built a carport at the base of his steep bush block and left a cheap old Range Rover in there for when he visited.

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## ringtail

> This bloke might interest you if you are interested in long term value adding   - Agroforestry

  Interesting. Thanks.

----------


## woodbe

> Those tyres are long gone now. Running toyo AT2's now and they're awesome. Muddies are soooooo over rated. Rubbish on the road ( where lets face it, 90% the use is) noisy as and generally not warranted. Good AT's will do most things and then go for the winch. Most people run AT's at Cape York no worries at all. My rule is if you don't need to go there, don't. If it's wet and all one is going to do is chew up the track, then don't. It's all an image promoted by publications like 4wd Action where they tear @@@@ around destroying every track they touch. Besides, I have a road now so a front wheel drive road car can get in there now all weather. Well, most weather. Still 3 creek crossings that get gnarly in a flood. Oh, those MickyT's cost twice as much as the toyos are are definitely not twice the tyre.

  Much better choice there. Toyo's are a good budget item. Mickeys are dearer, but not twice.  
Buggy would be a great idea.

----------


## ringtail

> Much better choice there. Toyo's are a good budget item.

  Hardly a budget tyre. $265 a corner at trade. RRP is 300+.  Toyo piss all over just about everything on the market for build quality. A lot of hype built into the price of Micky T's ,Coopers and BFG's. All are good rubber no doubt about it but certainly not worth the dollars and hype

----------


## woodbe

Any reasonable LT A/T tyre is never a cheap to buy tyre, but they last well if you look after them. Your Toyos are much better than your previous.

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## ringtail

When new the falkens were good. Their design was to turn into a HT when the wear down. The outer lugs wear down to form a smooth shoulder. I found them slippery as buggery on the bitumen from about half worn. Really bad. Glad to be rid of them. Still, they did 80 000 km with no punctures or separation or balance problems. They were $250 a corner so not cheap. Then the new toyo AT2 hit the market so changing was a no brainer.

----------


## phild01

thread re-opened by request.

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## ringtail

A few updates to go through but too late now to start resizing pics. Job for tomorrow night.

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## Marc

Talking tyres, I am on my third set of maxxis AT. they all go for 70k clicks no problems

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## ringtail

I'm waiting for the mix of Bridgestone and Dunlops to wear out on the Dmax so I can get Toyos again.

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## toooldforthis

> thread re-opened by request.

  Good to see I'm not the only one  :Biggrin:    

> Talking tyres, I am on my third set of maxxis AT. they all go for 70k clicks no problems

  I like my maxxis too

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## ringtail

Ok, more pics of other stuff later. On the weekend I installed the first whoa boy (water bar) on the road. 2.5 m3 of roadbase did the trick. The discharge area is to top of a gully so water shedding should be perfect.  We had 2 rain events recently. First was an isolated slow moving storm that sat directly over us. We got 180mm and 120 of that in 3 hours. The second was ex tc Debbie. 300 mm from that into a saturated catchment. The whole area was smashed. Surprisingly,  only the last 100mt of our easement was damaged and that was from the first storm. But more on that with pics later. Our easement is surrounded by some pretty steep hills with multiple gullies running across the road. In some areas the gullies direct water along the road as well as across it. Getting rid of the volume and energy of the water is paramount. Hence the water bar. I have 3 more to do and 3 broad trenches. More pics of the trenches later but they are ultra successful.

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## OBBob

Wow, yeah you need to be really careful with erosion control there or you'll create your own gullies really quickly. Getting the water to sheet off the road is ideal, otherwise rock piles to slow the flow and try to maintain ground cover (that holds everything together).

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## ringtail

Just need to resize some pics and I'll post em up but yep, rocks "culverts" work great. I'm blown away by how well one particular one did in epic flows.

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## ringtail

Ok, so the 120 mm in 3 hours did this to what we call the driveway. In reality it's the last 80 ish mt. of the easement. As we are right at the bottom of the valley all water, one way or another, finds its way to us. I was picking 80 mm crushed concrete out of the grass 50 mt from the gate.

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## ringtail

So after the first rain event I decided to dig a trench to pick up the water coming from 3 gullies and divert the water into a soakage pit. If the pit fills it will spill down to the creek instead of down the driveway. I used the soil and grass from the trench to make a waterbar that directs water to the trench. I also dug a wide trench across the road above our driveway and made a rock bar. Geotextile fabric and lot of rocks. Work great and in the second rain event not one rock was lost. Amazing considering the volume and velocity of the water.

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## ChocDog

Great looking setting there ringtail. Where is it? Sunshine coast way?

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## SilentButDeadly

I'm seeing lots of work there... probably with more to come!

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## ringtail

The water in the soakage pit is after the ex tc. It overflowed and spilled as predicted. Damage to the driveway was next to nil apart from a small section near the gate. Following the debris trail back uphill towards the rock culvert I could see a subtle change in the landscape that allowed the water to take two paths in extreme flows. Another trench was required to removed that threat. Just need another rain event for testing purposes. All in all, we got off lighty and I had a good excuse to play with backhoe. And the coffee is loving the wet.

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## ringtail

> Great looking setting there ringtail. Where is it? Sunshine coast way?

  Nah. Spicers gap which is SW of Brisbane. Spicers Gap was used to take the bullock drays out to the darling downs before Cunninghams gap was established right next to Spicers. Lots and lots of history in the area and for a long time Spicers gap was the only way for anything to get through from inland and down south to Brisbane /Ipswich and the river to be put on ships.

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## SilentButDeadly

Coffee? It'll never catch on...

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## ringtail

> I'm seeing lots of work there... probably with more to come!

  Never ending SBD. ATM I'm spending all my time outside our property fixing stuff and building new stuff. Tomorrow I'll post pics of the  300mt road I'm building, or establishing to be accurate.

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## ringtail

> Coffee? It'll never catch on...

  I'm crazy eh  :Biggrin:

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## SilentButDeadly

> I'm crazy eh

  I'm interested. Do you sell it by the kilo? Or does crazy come in buckets. Never sure these days...

----------


## ringtail

We haven't had a crop yet. About 50 of the 400 trees are bearing fruit but they take upto 8 months to ripen. The first few years will be hit and miss but as the younger trees come on line we should get consistent crops. We will roast and sell by the kg. Selling green is not viable. $15 kg green vs $50 kg roasted.

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## intertd6

> We haven't had a crop yet. About 50 of the 400 trees are bearing fruit but they take upto 8 months to ripen. The first few years will be hit and miss but as the younger trees come on line we should get consistent crops. We will roast and sell by the kg. Selling green is not viable. $15 kg green vs $50 kg roasted.

   You might have to knit them some jumpers to get them through the winter.
inter

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## ringtail

It does get cold there. Not quite as cold as Warwick and Stanthorpe. Our saving grace is the density of the trees. It stays really humid at night. We have never had a frost there since we've owned it yet 400 mt away where old mate cattle farmer has killed all the trees, the frost hits hard. The cows stick their necks through the fence as far as they can to eat our lush green grass in winter. It's the wind that is the killer. Winter South Westerlies are brutal and freezing cold. We get some odd weather there. Cooler in summer, warmer in winter but the topography causes some odd things to happen. Definitely our own micro climate. We are learning all the time.

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## Marc

> You might have to knit them some jumpers to get them through the winter.
> inter

   Nothing to worry about with global warming it will be hotter in no time ... like even next year.  :Smilie:

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## intertd6

> Nothing to worry about with global warming it will be hotter in no time ... like even next year.

   I hope so, I've tried to grow coffee & macadamia's where I am, but we get a couple of winters every so often where it frosts daily for weeks, that hasn't happened for a few years, so maybe the climate has turned for the better.
inter

----------


## ChocDog

Nice one. Great area. I grew up in Brisvegas (Brookfield area) before moving down to sunny Melbourne. Coincidentally, my folks are staying at Spicers Lodge in a couple of weeks time.    

> Nah. Spicers gap which is SW of Brisbane. Spicers Gap was used to take the bullock drays out to the darling downs before Cunninghams gap was established right next to Spicers. Lots and lots of history in the area and for a long time Spicers gap was the only way for anything to get through from inland and down south to Brisbane /Ipswich and the river to be put on ships.

----------


## ringtail

> Nice one. Great area. I grew up in Brisvegas (Brookfield area) before moving down to sunny Melbourne. Coincidentally, my folks are staying at Spicers Lodge in a couple of weeks time.

  On a clear day or night I can see the tv towers on Mt. Cootha.

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## ringtail

> Nothing to worry about with global warming it will be hotter in no time ... like even next year.

  We now catch barra on the gold coast so maybe Brisbane could become the new Brazil. Lol

----------


## Marc

Not to mention crocs visiting your shores ... definitely global warming will make your life better ... and more CO2 will give you nicer coffee. 
Except in SA of course were everything wrong is due to CO2 ...  :Smilie:

----------


## toooldforthis

> I also dug a wide trench across the road above our driveway and made a rock bar. *Geotextile* fabric and lot of rocks. Work great and in the second rain event not one rock was lost. Amazing considering the volume and velocity of the water.

  does the geo fabric make much of a difference?
presumably it is on the bottom under the rocks?

----------


## ringtail

> Not to mention crocs visiting your shores ... definitely global warming will make your life better ... and more CO2 will give you nicer coffee. 
> Except in SA of course were everything wrong is due to CO2 ...

  definitely need some more co2 for increased production  :Biggrin:

----------


## ringtail

> does the geo fabric make much of a difference?
> presumably it is on the bottom under the rocks?

  I'm guessing it makes a huge difference but I'm not quite sure why. This is full on stuff not the sh!te from the landscaping yard. I know it stops the rocks getting pushed in to the mud. I know stabilises the ground beneath it. I know it spreads the load of vehicles that drive over it. But I don't know why it stopped the rocks moving, if it had anything to do with it at all. Maybe increased friction between rock and fabric overcame the water pressure. Dunno. It's about 8-10 mm thick and was used for bank stabilisation on the legacy way tunnel.

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## Marc

Geotech (geotec/ geotex, geofabric ) stops the soil from washing away between the rocks. We put down thick geotech and large bolder against it for the seawall and the guys working on the convict road used thick geotech under the road and crushed sandstone over it. it stopped erosion by water completely.

----------


## PhilT2

> We now catch barra on the gold coast so maybe Brisbane could become the new Brazil. Lol

  Another el nino and you will be able to catch an irukandji too.

----------


## ringtail

> Geotech (geotec/ geotex, geofabric ) stops the soil from washing away between the rocks. We put down thick geotech and large bolder against it for the seawall and the guys working on the convict road used thick geotech under the road and crushed sandstone over it. it stopped erosion by water completely.

  Yep but we have no soil / sand / fill between the rocks at all. I haven't got around to it yet mainly because I don't know whether to use a gravel, sand, dry concrete blend, deco granite or a concrete slurry.

----------


## ringtail

> Another el nino and you will be able to catch an irukandji too.

  
I must admit, that is a worry. They are down to Fraser now.

----------


## Marc

> Yep but we have no soil / sand / fill between the rocks at all. I haven't got around to it yet mainly because I don't know whether to use a gravel, sand, dry concrete blend, deco granite or a concrete slurry.

  On second thought, it may just be to hold the rocks in place nothing more.

----------


## toooldforthis

> On second thought, it may just be to hold the rocks in place nothing more.

  so, if the rocks were big enough not to be washed away then the geo fabric is redundant? 
genuine question, am looking to put in a gully alongside a track.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

The geotech stops the landscape under the rocks from shifting by spreading the water pressure evenly. So it can't gouge as easily. It isn't redundant. 
Coarse pebble or scoria will be ideal as an infill. Just make sure it's not graded in size. It needs to be uneven and random so the water never finds an easy path through it.

----------


## ringtail

> so, if the rocks were big enough not to be washed away then the geo fabric is redundant? 
> genuine question, am looking to put in a gully alongside a track.

  Without a shadow of a doubt, the best material to stop erosion is none other than plain old grass. It's just unbelievable. If you have to remove the grass then geofab is the next best option but it must be the real deal not the crap stuff. The good stuff costs a bomb. Luckily, I was given a near full roll for free as it was going to landfill. Ironic. The one mistake I made whilst road building was digging trenches for the gravel.  The wheel tracks were already there on the grass and what I should have done was just put the recycled concrete down on the grass. It would still pack into the grass but the grass would grow through it locking it in forever. This has now happened for a good portion of our easement. Of course, the initial problem way back at the beginning was the bare evil soil areas that turned to ice if wet. For those areas digging trenches was the answer. The gravel acts as a mulch as well, retaining soil moisture and allowing grass to grow. Keeping the soil moist sounds counter productive but the bigger picture is getting grass to grow through the gravel.  After that happens the gravel can't be washed away, ever. After the grass grows through there are always little hollows from driving. These get filled with deco granite. The grass grows through this too, locking it in. This is where we are at presently. Our road is now all weather and gets better all the time as more deco granite goes down. Of course, the 3 creeks that we cross to get to our road are the limiting factor for access ( or exit) now.

----------


## goldie1

Place is coming along Ringtail. Is your creek permanent

----------


## ringtail

A few pics of the geofab I'm using where needed. Also some pics of the deco granite over the recycled concrete. It works like gap sand in pavers.

----------


## ringtail

> Place is coming along Ringtail. Is your creek permanent

  Semi permanent. Certainly better than seasonal but it will stop running in a prolonged dry spell. That creek in the above pics is not our creek. Ours runs into that one and is much smaller in width but much more permanent and pretty

----------


## ringtail

Our creek. About a week after the floods so still a bit dirty. It's gin clear now.

----------


## Marc

> so, if the rocks were big enough not to be washed away then the geo fabric is redundant? 
> genuine question, am looking to put in a gully alongside a track.

  I don't have experience in road work but from observing the erosion damage on a 150 old convict built road and the ways they have addressed the problem, I would say that there is nothing that can stop water flowing down the side of the road and the way to fix it is with a culvert, that is a channel under the road every so often to deviate the stream of water to the other side of the road and down hill. Of course if it is a plain, that solution is no good. 
If you have rocks in a stream of water, the water will slow down a bit but at the same time the speed of the water will accelerate between the rock and the ground resulting in more erosion around the rock. THe way I see it geotech under the rocks will act as a barrier between the flowing water and the soil so that the water can not carry away the dirt in its path. The restoration works on the old northern road placed thick fabric over the eroded original road and topped it up with 6-8" of crushed sandstone that allows some water flow but prevents any loss of soil underneath. that and fixing the existing culverts did the trick.
Now I am not sure how the trench filled with rocks works and if adding finer aggregate to fill the voids would help or not.

----------


## Marc

> Our creek. About a week after the floods so still a bit dirty. It's gin clear now.

  This is "our creek" after a lot of rain upstream   
And at low tide

----------


## ringtail

Looks like one could walk on that water.  :Biggrin:

----------


## toooldforthis

> Without a shadow of a doubt, the best material to stop erosion is none other than plain old grass. It's just unbelievable. If you have to remove the grass then geofab is the next best option but it must be the real deal not the crap stuff. The good stuff costs a bomb. Luckily, I was given a near full roll for free as it was going to landfill. Ironic. The one mistake I made whilst road building was digging trenches for the gravel.  The wheel tracks were already there on the grass and what I should have done was just put the recycled concrete down on the grass. It would still pack into the grass but the grass would grow through it locking it in forever. This has now happened for a good portion of our easement. Of course, the initial problem way back at the beginning was the bare evil soil areas that turned to ice if wet. For those areas digging trenches was the answer. The gravel acts as a mulch as well, retaining soil moisture and allowing grass to grow. Keeping the soil moist sounds counter productive but the bigger picture is getting grass to grow through the gravel.  After that happens the gravel can't be washed away, ever. After the grass grows through there are always little hollows from driving. These get filled with deco granite. The grass grows through this too, locking it in. This is where we are at presently. Our road is now all weather and gets better all the time as more deco granite goes down. Of course, the 3 creeks that we cross to get to our road are the limiting factor for access ( or exit) now.

  All good info there ringtail. And thanks for the pics, helps a lot. My new 1 year old track to top of block has settled in now but washed out a bit last winter, so trying to avoid that this winter. Overall it is close to 60m long and 20% gradient from shed area to top. Lower section below shed to road is probably 10-15%. So last winter water had some speed going down but didnt really do a lot of damage considering we dont get real rain here  :Smilie:  The track was built out of free fill from neighbouring properties and the intention as always been to put something on top. It is mainly clay so when wet is impossible.  My thinking was to cut a gully/drain in the high side of the track and camber the new surface into it. 
If I cut drains across the track, or build windrows across, the water would go to the low side below which is another driveway, and at one point the shed. 
Also, most of the use is reversing the trailer up with building materials  speed humps would just make it a little bit trickier.    Spoken to a few local bobcat guys and each has a different opinion. Each suggests a different surface  ferrocrete (its just cracked laterite I think, goes quite hard, they pretend it has cement in it, but doesnt), large gravel (20mm?), cracker dust, and road base. None suggested the high side drain til I mentioned it.  At the moment I am thinking trying the high side drain with rock/gravel to slow the water down and a layer of cracker dust on the track cause the finer material can imbed into the clay underneath. 
Then I can just keep throwing some more on each year until sorted.  Am on the wrong track?  :Biggrin:   Any ideas out there?  Sorry if I have pinched your thread  can start a new one if need be.

----------


## Marc

Because your road is straight, the water running on the hill side will not do any damage to the road. If you had a bend and the water crosses the road then it would wash the road away. The culvert is a little tunnel under the road made with stones. You would use a PVC pipe of course under the road, no bumps or dips, but if the water on the low side will be a nuisance elsewhere, that is not an option. 
One way to do it would be to have geotech over the road and into the 'gutter' on the hill side to prevent water to wash off the soil. Then cover the road with any aggregate you can get cheap and fill the 'gutter' with rocks. I get crushed sandstone cheap from the quarry, check your local quarry, you have many to choose from there.

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## ringtail

I guess you have 3 issues there. The water that falls on the actual road. The runoff coming down the road and the run off from the hill above. If you put a spoon drain down the side and camber the entire road to shed water to that side it will work fine. One material you should try and get hold of is guard rail. Yes guard rail, from the highway. Use that as your spoon drain and it's happy days.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9DJNyYkYA

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## sol381

If im driving along the highway and i see steel posts with no rails i`ll know where its gone eh. Where would you buy that stuff.. Be helpful if you had a mate in the council.

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## ringtail

You can buy it new but it's dear as. I'd be checking the scrap yards and putting an order in with them. Maybe go to a council road works depot and offer beer.

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## sol381

good idea.. i can see how it would be great for spoon drain.. Much better and easier than concrete.

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## ringtail

Yep. Getting it is the hard part. The idea hasn't taken off here so demand is nill. Just need to get it before it gets melted down. I think councils have to replace any that is even mildly damaged.

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## Marc

Mm ... a galvanised steel channel instead of a bit of fabric and rocks? I understand if you get it for free, but otherwise ? 
What you have is basically an open drain, so all it needs is a bit of lining and if required something to slow the water down. You could even use a bit of agricultural plastic to line the trench. I suggest fabric because it allows for some of the water to seep in the ground.  If you had a meter or so you could dig a large trench and allow grass to grow inside, but you seem to have little room to move there.

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## toooldforthis

> I guess you have 3 issues there. The water that falls on the actual road. The runoff coming down the road and the run off from the hill above. If you put a spoon drain down the side and camber the entire road to shed water to that side it will work fine. One material you should try and get hold of is guard rail. Yes guard rail, from the highway. Use that as your spoon drain and it's happy days.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9DJNyYkYA

  Thanks
That was my thinking
But none of the locals suggested that until I did.
But then again I am none too impressed by their work to date. 
Will keep an eye out for guard rail but will probably try just the rocks first as my ditch won't have to be so precise.

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## lazydays

Is that Mt Maroon in the background of one photo??...Great country!

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## ringtail

I don't think so. We are north west of there up near Lake Moogerah

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## lazydays

Mt Maroon should be very prominent from many vantage points around your area. Mount Barney is the highest mountain in SE Qld and from your area would mostly be hidden by Mt Maroon in front of it, you might even get a glimpse of Mt Lindsay with it's prominent hat shape just to the east of Mt Maroon/Mt Barney

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## ringtail

Mt Greville is pretty much all we see to the east and only when we come out of our little valley. Different story if we go up on to top ridge. Panoramic views

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## lazydays

I went out to climb Mt Greville one day and and saw the most amazing site. I missed the little farm road out to the base and was outside my car looking at the mountain across a farmers field when I heard a jet plane roaring straight to it and only flying about 200mm high. Flew straight to the mountain and then up and over. It was a F1-II which I can only presume was on an exercise from Amberley and using its ground following radar. Scary stuff to be sitting in a cockpit at 800KPH flying straight at a mountain.

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## ringtail

Yep, they seem to turn right over us when doing the flyovers at Brisbane for Anzac day, fireworks etc.....

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## ringtail

Been meaning to make a plug for the trailer for more accurate gravel distribution. It can be fitted left or right but I'm going to put a V on the front of it so it can be mounted in the middle too. Worked really well today.

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## sol381

very nice and very clever.

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## Marc

You built a stone sowing machine  :2thumbsup:

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## ringtail

Doing the V front mod now. Pic later. Try it out tomorrow

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## r3nov8or

Clever. There is very little doubt that if it was me I'd be out there with a shovel and hating myself for starting this job  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

This is about 75 or 80 ish m3 that this trailer has delivered. And that's just gravel and roadbase. Another 30 m3 of woodchips, 3 watertanks, many m3 of firewood and slabs, concrete blend,cement and the list goes on. Getting smarter is the only way to save ones back.  Anyhoo, here is the mod. I chopped up an old balustrade panel I made years ago which saved some time. I cut up a old sheet metal sign to  clad the V. A piece of 30/30 angle on the nose and formply top.  There is still some minor rake work needed after dumping but nothing like the previous efforts. I'm going to put limiting chains on the tailgate tonight.  Test it out tomorrow. And no, I didn't get the sign from an Ice dealer. It used to say office. :Biggrin:

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## toooldforthis

lurve yr work. 
I picked up a old trailer tailgate off the side of the road the other day to cut up to make something similar. 
can you get a good length of chain to drape off the back of the trailer to do the raking as you go?

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## ringtail

Chain could be interesting. I'll put some pics up later. It worked pretty well and as I expected. Still needed to touch up with the rake but prettyhappy overall. A load of roadbase tomorrow to start on the whoaboys. Sigh.

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