# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  LED lighting for home

## Melb

HI All, 
I was looking into converting my kitchen/living and bathroom to LED downlights I have around 20 lights at the moment. I was wondering what is the main different between led mr16 and gu10 are they all led downlights. my brother told me something but I don't understand what he was trying to say.  
Also I am thinking of buying them from 9W LED MR16 Downlight (Cree LED Inside) | Trim Energy 
they are cheap and they look exactly the same as these other ones from here PrimoLED 9 Watt LED Spotlight which are a lot more expensive.  
Also why are 8W LED downlights LED MR16 | Trim Energy so much more expensive does price mean that they are better quality but they have less watts so shouldn't it give less light :Wink 1: . Any how I might buy a couple to trial and see for myself as well. As I wanna eventually do the whole house and also outdoors with different colours as my friend said she is saving a bit plus not changing lights all the time, which I hate. 
Thanks for the help

----------


## watson

> HI All, 
>  my brother told me something but I don't understand what he was trying to say.

  What did your brother tell you........ :Spyme:

----------


## Melb

Hey, he said something to do with 12 v and 240 v and you cannot use one in the other but they look the same to me also the 12 V cannot be changed but I need a new transformer and fitting if I want it ? See confusing, I am sure he made sense to someone that understands more. At least I know more about globes  :Smilie: .

----------


## Bedford

I reckon you would need a transformer from 110volt, not 240 volt.

----------


## applied

The difference between gu10 and mr16 Is The gu10 globes run straight on mains no transformer and the mr16 use a step down to 12v transformer. 
The fittings will usually accept both types but gu10 fitting are often hard wired requiring an electrician. 
The step down transformers are diffrent to led drivers so factor the cost of the new transformers as well.

----------


## applied

> I reckon you would need a transformer from 110volt, not 240 volt.

  Why 110?

----------


## Master Splinter

MR16 refers to the bulb type - a MR16 bulb is the typical halogen lightbulb-with-reflector.  These normally have two metal pins of about 1.5 mm diameter on the base, and they run on 12 volts supplied from a nearby transformer.   
A GU10 base is the bigger (but it's still an MR16 bulb type...just a different connection), clunky looking base (normally porcelain) with two T shaped pins; the top of the tee is about 4mm diameter, the shank is about 2mm.  These are designed to run on 240 volts directly. 
MR16 bulbs can be found with both the GX(something or other) base - which is the 12 volt base, and a GU10 base for running directly from the mains. 
So your LED bulb needs to fit a standard MR16 bulb fitting (some LED bulbs are bigger/longer than MR16 dimensions and may not fit in your existing downlights) and have either the two thin pins for 12 volts, or the GU10 fitting for 240 volts. 
The complications may not stop there - if you have the new-fangled transformerless transformers (ok, it's a pulse width modulation doodad, technically) for 12 volt lights, they may not work with LED bulbs as the LEDs might not have enough current draw to actually make the transformers work.  The older, heavy wire wound transformers should be just fine, though inefficient. 
CREE LEDs are generally considered the ones to beat; from memory it takes 10 or 11 watts of CREE LED to match the light output of a 50 watt halogen.

----------


## Ozcar

> MR16 refers to the bulb type - a MR16 bulb is the typical halogen lightbulb-with-reflector.  These normally have two metal pins of about 1.5 mm diameter on the base, and they run on 12 volts supplied from a nearby transformer.   
> A GU10 base is the bigger (but it's still an MR16 bulb type...just a different connection), clunky looking base (normally porcelain) with two T shaped pins; the top of the tee is about 4mm diameter, the shank is about 2mm.  These are designed to run on 240 volts directly.

  Out of curiosity, I bought a lamp described by the packaging as "12V MR16 1W 18LED", for $3.99 in a "two dollar" store" (OK, so it wasn't two dollars). It is branded "Borun" and it looks like a typical MR16 lamp, but with LEDs of course. 
I couldn't get it to work on either 12V AC or 12V DC,  
To cut a long story short, I found that the guts of the thing belong in a GU10 lamp that operates directly from the mains. 
Perhaps they also ended up with GU10 lamps with the MR16 boards in them - they might light up (very briefly) if connected to the mains! They could even become NEDs (Noise Emitting Diodes, as the explode).

----------


## Melb

Hey thanks everyone, So I guess I need these mr16 globes as I am replacing existing lights and not the gu10 as I would be replacing in the kitchen/living and bathroom. Are these two types called the same under halogen or is just LED lights.  
The other rooms just have a normal globe in them, would this mean that I need to have an electrician come and install these other gu10 lights as I want LED downlights in the other rooms or would I need the mr16? 
Thanks

----------


## tricky4000

Hi Melb,
If you want to do this properly, you really should be changing over the transformer also.  This would involve an electrician which will involve high costs which means if you're reinstalling LEDs to save money, there's no point.  In my opinion, only worthwhile on a new installation.  Now, if your bulb holders are MR16, then you need to replace with MR16 bulbs.  MR16 refers to the bulb size/diametre.  If you look up MR11 bulbs (for exmaple), you'll find they're slightly smaller .  
As Master Splinter said, old transfromers are inefficient (therefore little saving to you) and the standard type electronic transformers (in more cases than none) make your LEDs flicker which can be very annoying and will also greatly reduce the life of your LED bulb.  You need the right transfromer for the job.  
As I said earlier, I really don't think it is worth your while in this case Melb.  It would be a very expensive exercise with no saving to you.  However. if you're doing it purely for the environment and costs don't matter, then by all means get a sparky out to help you.  You will greatly reduce your energy costs (for your lighting anyway).
Tricks

----------


## Melb

Hey thanks for the help, I ended up buying a couple of each of the led Mr16 the 9W and 8W (the 9W is a lot cheaper but they say light output not as bright) from the original guys at LED MR16 | Trim Energy and got them today and tried them out. 
To be honest the 9w are a tiny bit less brighter but I don't really notice when I only have them in, it's probably only marginal and for the cost I will stick with the cheaper option plus I get a discount i guess you pay more for premium. So can't wait to order the rest.  
Tricky4000 I actually also got an electrician in yesterday and he thinks I should install whole downlight kits as they are the best option as I just have globes in the other parts. 
Well yes saving electricity is good but I am more sick and tired of changing my lights plus I have quite a high ceiling so I always need to ask my brother over or someone else to help me which is annoying. Plus those other energy efficient CFLs in my room keep flickering at night while I sleep (as I recently changed the shade and bulb) which is also annoying and I read that LED lights don't do that as well.    
Thanks for all the help  :Smilie:

----------


## Melanie B

> CREE LEDs are generally considered the ones to beat; from memory it takes 10 or 11 watts of CREE LED to match the light output of a 50 watt halogen.

  I've heard that the Brightgreen LEDs are the top ones, especially their MR16 one. I think they are only 10 watts, but brighter than all other LEDs.

----------


## Master Splinter

Errrrr... you can buy nearly ten CREE bulbs (12 watt, GU10, dimmable, with more light output - 810 lumens - than the BG ones) from ebay that'll fit in existing downlight fittings for the price of a single Brightgreen LED (also from ebay).   
Being a natural born cynic, I'd suspect that Brightgreen's actual edge is in product marketing.

----------


## Smurf

> Being a natural born cynic, I'd suspect that Brightgreen's actual edge is in product marketing.

  Look at all posts in this thread very carefully and see if you notice something...  :Wink:

----------


## Master Splinter

But the CREEs from Trim Energy are a mere three times the price of the ebay CREEs!

----------


## sundancewfs

All LEDs. Crees, Ebays, strip lights.... Bayonet and Edison screw.
Works very nicely, lots of light.

----------


## Master Splinter

I see you have gone for a minimalist look in the kitchen, then...... :Biggrin:

----------


## sundancewfs

> I see you have gone for a minimalist look in the kitchen, then......

  Yes, benchtops, doors and draws are over rated  :Biggrin:

----------


## juan

> All LEDs. Crees, Ebays, strip lights.... Bayonet and Edison screw.
> Works very nicely, lots of light.

  Looking good.  Did you buy all your lights shown on eBay?
If so is it possible to post links? I am in market for some at the moment.

----------


## juan

I firstly have to say I get confused easily with all this talk of different downlights. 
I would like to install about 6 in a new kitchen to supplement the hanging pendant light fitting (or fittings) above a central island.
Ceiling height is 3m and the downlights would provide additional lighting above kitchen sink and in walking areas around the island. There are leds being installed under cabinets above bench by kitchen supplier. 
I am not too worried about cost of fittings as there are only 6 but want a nice light and more importantly do not want to be changing bulbs too often.
Given I have a clean slated to start with *what would you guys recommend*.  I like the idea of LED from the lower power consumption and longer bulb life - or is this a fallacy?

----------


## sundancewfs

> Looking good. Did you buy all your lights shown on eBay? If so is it possible to post links? I am in market for some at the moment.

  Ok, the downlights and the strip lighting under the upper cabinets came from www.ledlighting.com.au
The downlights are Cree Evo 50's (15watts) and the strip is their "high output" 9watts per metre.
The rangehood has 2x 5 watt GU10 LED globes
The pendants above the bench are standard ES (Edison Screw) fittings. Those globes are 6watts came from Ebay VictoryLightings items - Get great deals on Wedding Supplies, Home Lifestlye items on eBay Stores!
The big deco style pendants in the living room  have standard BC (Bayonet Cap) fittings. They have 3x8 watt Osram Parathom globes each. They came from Bunnings. 
There is also 5 metres of RGB strip lighting for under the kicker of the base cabinets too. that came from Ebay also. Car joehappyshop items - Get great deals on Car Bar Home SMD LED STRIP, SEAT BELT items on eBay Stores! 
So total wattage as seen in the picture is  174watts This accounts for about half of the total light load in the house. 
 That's comparable to about seven, fifty watts halogens......

----------


## juan

Many thanks Sundance

----------


## Melanie B

> But the CREEs from Trim Energy are a mere three times the price of the ebay CREEs!

  They might be cheaper, however Trim Energy says they only provide 380 lumens, which is almost half that of halogens (remembering that lumens indicates brightness, watts only indicates power usage), they might be cheap but is it honestly worth having something that doesn't give a proper light output?

----------


## Master Splinter

I was referring to the 12 watt, GU10, dimmable 810 lumen units....(not that I believe the luminous flux claims of any LED seller)...but overall there's just too much 'early adopter' sting in the pricing of LEDs at the moment for my liking. 
But seriously, there are cheaper LED suppliers such as this - Trend Lighting Co. - Miniled XDA13  - uses the same LED as the premium priced Brightgreens but it's half the price. 
You should also note that Brightgreen seem to have a reputation for undisclosed self promotion on forums - see the comments at:  Brightgreen D900 series LED downlight - C-Bus Forums  and  Brightgreen Dimmable LED Downlights Cont - C-Bus Forums and not to mention the final comment in this thread - Brightgreen Dimmable LED Downlights [Archive] - C-Bus Forums

----------

