# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  Jack & Pack Our Weatherboard Home, What Do You Think?

## MetalWorkerSafe

Hi, 
Over the past 11 years we have had our weatherboard home re-blocked/re-stumped by 2 different companies. Recently we have had some squeaky noises appear when walking in certain parts of our house and given that some small cracks have appeared in some other rooms (in the usual places like the corners of door and window frames) over the last year or two, we have decided it might be time to Jack & Pack all of the house. 
So last week I decided I would go under the house in the hope of seeing what was causing the above mentioned issues. Given that since moving in, I had never been under it before I decided to take it slowly. However, I only managed a quarter of the way as my belly was struggling to get through the narrowing gaps. From what I observed the workmanship left a lot to be desired but I took some photos in the hope I would get some feedback from you members as to your thoughts of what you could see, or what I should do? 
From what I saw there was only one out of 15 concrete stumps had been correctly nailed into position on the bearer and had an ant trap separating the bearer and concrete stump. Most of the gaps were too big between the bearer and the top of the concrete stump as well as the packing material(s) were not correct, especially when mixed with others.
One of them I am sure is packed up with 4 pieces of asbestos sheeting!! A electrical cable from the mains box as also been trapped between a bearer and a stump. 
If anybody who is in this line of work and wants to quote on this job then please send me a private message, leave your details on here, or email me at jackson_close@yahoo.com.au and I will get back to you asap. 
Thanking those in advance of your replies :Wink: . 
Regards
MWS 
P.S. Pictures/Photos will follow shortly

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## MetalWorkerSafe



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## MetalWorkerSafe



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## Marc

Call the ACCC, a "company" doing that sort of work does not deserve to have a license. 
I don't know about the others but I have never seen anything like it done by someone that was paid to do it.

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## goldie1

What Marc said The job is complete rubbish. BTW if the fiber cement is 11 years old or less  it wont  
contain asbestos

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## sol381

Good lord..they look like home made stumps....i always though a 10-12mm rod was needed to attach posts to bearers then bolted on..id be getting that looked at pretty fast...

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## CraigandKate

That is horrific, need to get a sparky to look at the cable ASAP too.

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## David.Elliott

You gotta be SH*^^ING me. I'm with some of the others. Get the ACCC involved. Sure, restumping correctly is hard work and expensive, but that's why we get a professional.

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## Optimus

Just  a couple of points (and im not defending anyone here) 
*the wire isn't trapped between a bearer and a stump. it has simply been unclipped from the bearer so they can nail a hanging block onto the bearer in order to hang the stump level. If you wanted you could just pull that out, its not "trapped" 
* the stumps are not attached to the bearers because you have had it jacked and packed before. In order to lift the house you have to disconnect the stumps from the bearers.  
*instead of getting it jacked and packed AGAIN, you should be finding the problem as to why it keeps sinking. 
Did the first company to restump it get a building permit? 
It is a rough job of packing the stumps.

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## MetalWorkerSafe

Thank you to those who have taken the time to kindly reply to my queries. There is a Latin phrase "omne trium perfectum" which broadly means everything that comes in threes is perfect but I've got the feeling I'm going to have 3 incompetent ones. So do you know any excellent re-stumpers who take a pride in the way they do their work - (I live in the inner north of Melbourne)? 
It has been said by some here to go and see the ACCC and see what they say? Well a few months after the first lot of restumpers came and did their bit, we had a few cracking issues within the house. So I contacted them and they said they did what the contract stated. I said if they weren't going to come back and fix it I would go and contact VCAT which I had to but they said given the waiting list it would likely take a year before getting to be heard in court. Of course you can go and see a solicitor/lawyer and see if it is worth taking them to court which it wasn’t. 
So we got a second lot come in and once again we ended up with problems but having called the council in it was sorted out. However, things have got worse over the past 5 years and now we just want the whole floor levelled and to be done correctly - and stay that way!!

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## Marc

I don't think you are without legal recourse, however I understand that it is probably easier to live without conflicts. 
Check the members location, and ask for a referral, my daughter would have done a better job than that when she was 15. 
Google Melbourne restumping reviews, there are a few comments about restumping companies, good and bad. May be one way to go.

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## MetalWorkerSafe

> Just  a couple of points (and im not defending anyone here) 
> *the wire isn't trapped between a bearer and a stump. it has simply been unclipped from the bearer so they can nail a hanging block onto the bearer in order to hang the stump level. If you wanted you could just pull that out, its not "trapped"  Hi Optimus, 
> When I was under the house I tried pulling (with thick leather welding gloves) the white rubber cover electrical wiring from either end but as I stated previously it was trapped between the bearers and I'm not going under the hose to take anymore pictures of it!!   
> * the stumps are not attached to the bearers because you have had it jacked and packed before. In order to lift the house you have to disconnect the stumps from the bearers. 
> Most of those stumps you are talking about were put it by the last restumpers. Consequently, there shouldn't be any gaps at all between the ant plate and the bearer as it is nailed in position and then when all the floor is checked as being level the concrete stumps are concreted in place. There is also a legal height limit on how much packing can be used. 
> *instead of getting it jacked and packed AGAIN, you should be finding the problem as to why it keeps sinking.  The council informed me a couple of years ago that the suburb I am in has the 3rd worse soil/clay mixture in Melbourne  Did the first company to restump it get a building permit?  Yes from the council. They supposedly come out prior to the concrete pour 
> It is a rough job of packing the stumps.

  Cheers for your interest.

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## ringtail

Wow ! That's some kwality work right there. I have no words

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## Optimus

as stated previously, it isn't between bearers. The wire is between a hanging block and a joist.. Simply pull the hanging block off the bearer with a pinch bar or a hammer (looks like it has 2 nails in it) and the wire will be free.. I can assure you that it wont be squashed in ilthere because the joist sits on the bearer which would stop it from squashing it.. 
Its not the restumpers fault that the house is moving  (provided the holes were dug correctly and the old sole plates were removed) after all you said yourself that there was a stump hole inspection. 
It comes down to clay movement,

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## sol381

> Wow ! That's some kwality work right there. I have no words

  c`mon mate you must have at least one word.

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## Optimus

by the way, it's an ant cap and im pretty sure the legal requirement is 25mm.. 
but no one is going to pay anywhere from $150-$300 per stump to pull out the old concrete stump AND the Concrete pad and replace with new when you can simply pack it with plastic packers. 
Imo if you get it jacked and packed now you will be doing it again in 5-10 years..

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## sol381

I dont understand why they didnt just use steel posts. much easier to use and probably more stable as you can load a lot more concrete around them..

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## Optimus

that makes absolutely no difference.  
fwiw Concrete stumps are about  $8 per meter  and steel is $41 per meter

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## sol381

..not sure where you are buying your steel from but i wouldnt pay any more than $20 lm for steel posts..concrete posts are about $20 per foot so much more expensive

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## goldie1

How badly out of level was the house before it was done 11 years ago and how old is your house.   
I assume the first company fitted the new stumps and the second company supplied the 
art installations on  top of the stumps

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## Optimus

how would it save labour? by the looks of the photos the stumps would be about 900-1100 in length mate.. it takes no more effort to drag a concrete stump that size than a steel stump. btw Concrete stumps here are 100x100 
we get all our materials from mitre 10. THeir price for 75x75 steel stumps are higher than others but that is what we pay

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## goldie1

> I dont understand why they didnt just use steel posts. much easier to use and probably more stable as you can load a lot more concrete around them..

   Concrete stumps are standard procedure in Melbourne  for low set houses. Price 
of stumps is around $ 8 to  $ 10  per meter  http://www.bunnings.com.au/cope-indu...stump_p1080055

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## sol381

your kidding, have you ever tried to drag a concrete stump that weighs over 200kg or a steel post that weighs 20kg..mitre 10 for steel?.. good lord.... well theres your problem, try going to a steel merchant.

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## Optimus

100x100 Concrete stumps down here buddy and yes its fair to say i have dragged many of stumps around under a house. 
When mitre 10 makes the concrete stumps and supplies all the other materials you need, you don't bother going to grab a few steel stumps from somewhere else when you can get it all at the one place

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## sol381

200 x 200 concrete stumps are $10 lm.. jeez, i need to ship some to brissie. never seen a concrete stump sold by lm always per foot..

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## sol381

ahh ok.. 100 x 100...mm ive never those in  my life ...if they were in my house id replace them.. all we have here is 200 x 200

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## goldie1

> .. concrete posts are about $20 per foot so much more expensive

  what size are they 
Houses in Brisbane are mostly highset  requiring much larger stumps

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## sol381

200 x 200.. all they have here and all anyone would ever use to support a house...

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## ringtail

> c`mon mate you must have at least one word.

  Ok then. Munted.

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## sol381

never heard of that word before but that will most certainly do...

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## ringtail

> 200 x 200.. all they have here and all anyone would ever use to support a house...

  Apart from massive timber stumps or steel but yes, totally agree. I wouldn't build a BBQ using those POS concrete stumps they use down south.

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## goldie1

> Apart from massive timber stumps or steel but yes, totally agree. I wouldn't build a BBQ using those POS concrete stumps they use down south.

  All I keep under mine is the mower so if it falls over it doesn't matter. Now if yours fell over it would crush 
several cars, the boat, the jet ski, the workshop etc etc   :Smilie:

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## sol381

and your house floor would be a skateboard ramp...i understand that we have 6 to 8ft stumps as opposed to 2-3ft stumps down  there but if it collapses its still a failure and your house is still rubble..

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## Marc

Gee whiz ... some less than optimal replies there. 
Anyone knows a reputable restumping dude in Melbourne?

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## ringtail

> All I keep under mine is the mower so if it falls over it doesn't matter. Now if yours fell over it would crush 
> several cars, the boat, the jet ski, the workshop etc etc

  
Even low set houses of the day were on 200x200's 300 mm off the ground. Some had a perimeter beam of double brick with the stumps in between. Then poxy slab on ground became popular and decent construction ended  :Tongue:

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## David.Elliott

Poxy slab on ground is pretty much all that's here in the west now... 
The funniest thing is that developers buy some low lying land that's prone to being wet all winter and load it up with yellow sand to make it buildable on, after they knock down EVERY tree in sight. And relocate all the kangaroos. 
Some I have seen are cunning and put 300mm or so of some darker soil on top... 
The latest one I have witnessed is 7 courses of concrete retaining blocks high...then faced with brown gravel constituted blocks. 
I think it has to be ~3m of yellow sand. Then the purchasers can't figure why stuff don't grow. The ones on the corner that now have a 24 hour HJs next door must be ecstatic... 
Then they split that up into 300m2 blocks, and build project homes on them that go from fence to fence with a double garage, that somehow always has two cars out front, 
There has to be less than a meter from windows to fence, so no light or breeze possible.

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## ringtail

Brilliant way to live.  :Frown:

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## Barboots

> ... with a double garage, that somehow always has two cars out front,

  That's not the garage... it's the front yard.  :Rolleyes:  
David you forgot to throw a few punches at triplex ghettos, paving everything, no shading from eaves, AC outdoor units everywhere and the eye catching pleasure of Colourbond fencing pretty much everywhere you look. To be fair, I've noticed the same kind of appalling rubbish being built in other capitals. I suspect new houses like these come with a glass pipe and a 1800 number for the local ice dealer.  
Apologies for continuing to drift off topic  :Wink:  
Cheers, 
Steve

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## David.Elliott

Hey Steve, we did all that a few weeks ago...c'mon you gotta catch up... 
Something else I noticed on the way home was the number of "biggish" boats on trailers against the fence at some of these. The grass and weeds are upto and sometimes taller than the wheels.  
This is something I reckon I'm experiencing...  Heat Island Effect | US EPA 
Last week on the way home  ~ 3.30pm, Armadale was 41 degrees, Byford was 40 and on the hill on the way to my place some 15 minutes later it was 36.

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## MetalWorkerSafe

Optimus - Thanks for your contributions so far. I would like to make a bet with you in that if the electrical cable is trapped as I have stated you will come up to my place and you will put in all new stumps at least a metre deep not only on all of the exterior bearers of the house (at the correct distances as stipulated in the Victorian building regulations) but the interior ones as well - but you will have to dig the holes from under the house - no cutting square holes through my floor!!. Those metal stumps would be great with the adjusting screw on the top so I can adjust them should they sink. But then again I would get you out again to correct the problem(s). 
So which company do you work for, or are you the owner? Would you be interested in quoting the job? 
The first bunch of jokers who restumped the house shortly after moving in only went 400mm which I was later told was inadequate for the area. I have noticed a couple of houses locally that were built on stumps, had huge boulders and crushed rock mixed in with the soil - I dont know if this is a requirement given the large amount of clay in the soil around here? The second lot appeared to be more knowledgeable and I was informed they were good at what they did - I no longer speak to the so called good friend. I have attached an image (or 2) of the measuring device the second crew used. Is this what most re-stumpers use to ensure the floor is universally level? The jokers used some water level U shaped device to level the floor. I actually remember saying to him that it looked like it was something from a museum. He stated that it was something similar to what the Egyptians used to build the Pyramids. 
Am I correct in saying that the level point is the bottom of the fireplace/flue? 
If anyone who is in this trade, qualified, licensed and takes pride in their work (excellent workmanship) or knows someone who is, then they can email me at jackson_close@yahoo.com.au or give me a call on 0414447924.  
Cheers MWS

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## Optimus

> Optimus - Thanks for your contributions so far. I would like to make a bet with you in that if the electrical cable is trapped as I have stated you will come up to my place and you will put in all new stumps at least a metre deep not only on all of the exterior bearers of the house (at the correct distances as stipulated in the Victorian building regulations) but the interior ones as well - but you will have to dig the holes from under the house - no cutting square holes through my floor!!. Those metal stumps would be great with the adjusting screw on the top so I can adjust them should they sink. But then again I would get you out again to correct the problem(s). 
> So which company do you work for, or are you the owner? Would you be interested in quoting the job? 
> The first bunch of jokers who restumped the house shortly after moving in only went 400mm which I was later told was inadequate for the area. I have noticed a couple of houses locally that were built on stumps, had huge boulders and crushed rock mixed in with the soil - I dont know if this is a requirement given the large amount of clay in the soil around here? The second lot appeared to be more knowledgeable and I was informed they were good at what they did - I no longer speak to the so called good friend. I have attached an image (or 2) of the measuring device the second crew used. Is this what most re-stumpers use to ensure the floor is universally level? The jokers used some water level U shaped device to level the floor. I actually remember saying to him that it looked like it was something from a museum. He stated that it was something similar to what the Egyptians used to build the Pyramids. 
> Am I correct in saying that the level point is the bottom of the fireplace/flue? 
> If anyone who is in this trade, qualified, licensed and takes pride in their work (excellent workmanship) or knows someone who is, then they can email me at jackson_close@yahoo.com.au or give me a call on 0414447924.  
> Cheers MWS

   
I'll take you up on that bet.. but when im proven right, you pay me  $2000 cash just for proving you wrong. 
As to the stump depth,  by law restumpers only have to dig down to the original sole plate. Unless there is a soil test saying we have to go deeper.  
Yes the datum point will be the chimney, being the highest point of the floors level (unless the chimney has sunk) 
Old school water levels are fine (i have been using the nivcomp level for the last 7 odd years) but there is nothing wrong with using a water level 
To be brutally honest, i wouldn't touch your job as you come across as a real knob.. 
Goodluck though

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## MetalWorkerSafe

> I'll take you up on that bet.. but when im proven right, you pay me  $2000 cash just for proving you wrong. 
> As to the stump depth,  by law restumpers only have to dig down to the original sole plate. Unless there is a soil test saying we have to go deeper.  
> Yes the datum point will be the chimney, being the highest point of the floors level (unless the chimney has sunk) 
> Old school water levels are fine (i have been using the nivcomp level for the last 7 odd years) but there is nothing wrong with using a water level 
> To be brutally honest, i wouldn't touch your job as you come across as a real knob.. 
> Goodluck though

  No offence taken Optimus. Fortunately, I'm a pretty thick skinned Pommie who has taken quite a bit of stick off you Aussies but it's all water off my back. I wasn't anything like a cynical knob when I came over in 1990 but over the years I have come across some real cowboys in the building industry. Having had 6 tradespeople come to my house to do their specialized trade ranging from re-stumping up to having the roof changed yet only one of them (a plaster/render) was the only competent one!! The other 5, I asked them to kindly come back and to finish it properly and when some of them refused I took them to VCAT, Plumbing Commission or the appropriate authorities. So from my experience trying to find a honest/competent trades person isn't that easy. I don't believe people (customers) should have to put up with shonky workmanship when a non skilled person doesn't do the right thing by the paying customer!! 
Having spoken to someone today at the VBA, BAC(V) and local council I was amazed to find out that THERE is no rule/law stating there is a maximum gap between the the top of the stump and the bearer, so if you have a gap of up to lets say 5 metres then you can do so. The laws here never ceases to amaze me no wonder those in the law profession are the richest here in Oz.

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