# Forum Home Renovation Doors, Windows, Architraves & Skirts  convert push out casement window to winder operation?

## KAW

is it possible to convert my 1920's timber casement windows from their current pushout stay operation to a winder mechanism?  The stay is attached to the middle of the vertical edge of the window and i think a winder would need to go on the base of the window. 
I really want to be able to lock the windows open and to install a fixed timber flyscreen to the windows and can't with the stay operation as a) they dont lock and b) the stay juts inside the room when the window is open. 
installing a winder/crank is the only solution i can think of but i am not sure if this is feasible. any suggestions on how to do this or alternatives would be great.

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## Compleat Amateu

Yep, I've done exactly that.  And for the flyscreen/security reasons.  Leave the friction stays in place, you don't need to change the window hangings to hinges, just attach the winder to the existing and use strips of timber either side of the winder to finish off the sill gap that otherwise exists under the flyscreen. 
However, 3 points to note:
1.  Ventilation is much reduced because the winders don't open all that far;
2.  Order your winders all keyed alike - beats having a bunch of similar keys that aren't identical;
3.  Be careful to line up the attachment position for the winder with the window frame, otherwise the window will be forced out of square when winding (in) and won't shut properly. 
Good luck!

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## KAW

thanks for the information, glad to hear someone else has done this,  I have been searching the net for ages with no luck....  what type of winder/where did you purchase from?  i had thought the ventilation might be reduced but considering at the moment i cant open them anyway due to mossies and security it is probably worth the pay off! 
do you find that the window is stable when open now that the mechanism has been moved from the side of the window to the bottom?  i am a little worried about how it would stand up to a breeze.

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## SilentButDeadly

KAW......you can mount the winder wherever you like on the casement....even in the centre.  Though this might look a bit average because the winder will be in your sight line. The window frame itself should be strong enough even with the winder mounted on the bottom. 
From a security perspective.....winders aren't much better than stays. Sure they can't be 'flipped' but they can still simply be torn open - the mounting screws on the frame will tear out quite easily. 
In terms of sourcing......Whitco http://www.whitco.com.au/products/pr...&categoryID=30 or http://www.whitco.com.au/products/pr...&categoryID=44are typically cheaper than Lockwood but as CA suggests having them keyed alike is a good idea and this is not something I'd trust to Bunnings et.al so not sure how much this might affect the price margin

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## Compleat Amateu

All of the above, maybe someone else than Whitco make a better one, but I couldn't find 'em on th net etc etc .... and Bunnies would get the Whitco ones in with a bit of prompting. 
The hinges vs friction stays debate is wrong in the sense that if you have friction stays, leave them in and simply add the winder fitted at the bottom of the window casement.  No need to replace the pivoting mechanism. 
Also, now that I think of it, get the winders lockable, that should be obvious but maybe not.  Aus house insurance requires "deadlocks on all accessible windows and doors" or some such.  I'll bet your current windows - shut with a lever catch? - don't meet what insurance policies strictly require.

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## KAW

sorry, i am bit confused about friction stay and hinges and what these are...my casement just has hinges on the vertical edges so that it opens like a door. so i am right in assuming that i need to purchase a friction stay plus a winder to convert the windows?   
yep, will look to getting keyed winders.  at the moment i have some pretty ugly looking key locks that the last owner put on all the windows, presumbably so that their insurance covered them.

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## Compleat Amateu

G'day KAW 
Ohhhh, I have re-read your post and the penny has just dropped - scuse me for being thick - your windows open in the vertical axis, not (as mine are) in the horizontal.  To me, the problem this creates is that if the winder is mounted in the bottom centre of the casemate, a reasonable tealeaf could bust it open with a jemmy on the opposite edge.  On the other hand, insurance requirements are thereby met! 
You could mount the winder on the vertical face of the frame, indeed anywhere as SBD also suggests. 
But to answer the question you did ask, leave the friction stays in place, just add the winder.  With all the extra advice above! 
Cheers 
Compleat

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## Jannie

I have wooden arched casement windows with three panels, middle panel fixed and outside panels open like a door ( hinged on left side and right side).  They currently have a latch half way up and a stay at the bottom.  I want to fit lockable window winders so I can fit flyscreens and lock windows.  I have found Whitco winders however they do not make a left and right winder so this will not work.  Does anyone know of winders that are left and right.  I have found a brand called Truth that do this, but not sure if they will work asthey are generally fitted at time of manufacture rather that retro fitted.  Any ideas???  Would greatly appreciate 
Cheers Jannie    :Doh:

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## Kernel Thunder

Hi, have you tried Doric window winders?
they have a style that is a little more modern and slick. As opposed to Whitco and Lockwood, who are owned by the same parent company. 
they also make left and rights in the same model. 
Might be worth checking out. 
Kernel Thunder.

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