# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  Can I knock this wall down??

## firstrenovation

Just bought an apartment and to pass the time until settlement I am running over a few renovation/layout ideas for the bathroom/laundry as the current layout is a bit of a mess..  
Bit of background: it's a ground floor brick apartment (strata title) built in the late 60's early 70's. 5 apartments on ground floor with 5 above. Based on a couple of viewings I've established that all walls are solid (assuming rendered brick) and concrete floor. I would assume that the floor above is concrete with plasterboard ceiling below (lack of knowledge in Aussie construction methods). 
I've attached a rough! sketch of the current layout. My first idea is to divide the bathroom, adjust position of the shower and washing machine creating a separate bathroom and laundry room. In order to maximise space I would like to knock down the WC wall and adjust the position of the toilet. My concern would be whether or not the WC wall is loadbearing or not? Not sure of the layout of apartment above. 
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

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## rrobor

The answer is no. You can not change the existing structure of that building without seeking permission from the body corporate. If you do, in my opinion you are in deep whatever.

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## firstrenovation

Did I forget to mention that I wouldn't attempt to change anything without prior consent of Body Corporate?!

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## Batpig

Dear First, 
For a ground-floor unit underneath a suspended concrete slab, you'd have to assume that all internal walls were load-bearing - especially if they had been rendered up (as opposed to being left exposed, like as a "feature"). I wouldn't touch it, as the odds are well against you. Removing them when there's a concrete slab above - even when you've got a set of plans in front of you that makes it look like you can - is still just about the scariest thing you can do in your life. 
Best Wishes,
Batpig.

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## wozzzzza

> Dear First, 
> For a ground-floor unit underneath a suspended concrete slab, you'd have to assume that all internal walls were load-bearing - especially if they had been rendered up (as opposed to being left exposed, like as a "feature"). I wouldn't touch it, as the odds are well against you. Removing them when there's a concrete slab above - even when you've got a set of plans in front of you that makes it look like you can - is still just about the scariest thing you can do in your life. 
> Best Wishes,
> Batpig.

   i was just about to say that, you beat me to it.

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## firstrenovation

Thanks for the advise. Pretty much as I thought/ feared! 
Back to the drawing board I guess. 
Cutting a new door opening in these solid walls..... would I be right in assuming that you would need to have a structural engineer/builder specify a lintel? I'm thinking of moving the bathroom door down towards the bedroom as I don't like having the bathroom access in the middle of the kitchen....... Providing an engineer specified the required support, is this a job that could be done DIY or would it be more prudent to pay someone to do it?

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## Batpig

Dear First, 
I think you'll find that any new lintel in that situation will end up being a structural steel section mounted on steel posts. Unless you were _really_ setup for it, you'd be struggling to DIY it, I would think. Also, if you do go down the route of getting quotes from Builders as the first step (as opposed to a detail from an Engineer, from which you can obtain some Builder's quotes on "apples v's apples" basis...), make sure that you ask each one to price-in the cost of an Engineer to look at the thing first, and provide a certified detail (like a mini-drawing) of what needs to be done. 
Good Luck (but don't be surprised if the Body-Corp knocks it all on the head anyway!)
Batpig. 
P.S. Dear Wozz - feel free to say it all again anyway, cause it's scary enough to be worth saying twice...

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## GraemeCook

Might be worth buying the Secretary of your Body Corporate a cup of coffee and sussing out the lay of the land.   Some Body Corporates are dysfunctional and its just too difficult and too expensive to do anything.  Most are very reasonable. 
Your approach might be   "What's your bathroom like?  I am thinking about whether its feasible to upgrade mine and am looking for ideas....   Do you know if I can move the toilet walls or bathroom door, etc...."   Other residents may have already done something similar.   With a bit of luck the Body Corporate may have copies of the engineering drawings or know which engineering firm has them. 
You will probably need professional advice quite early in the process.  There are quite strict rules about toilet and bathroom placement and ventillation, rooms without windows (if you separate the laundry), noise transference, etc. 
Good Luck 
Graeme

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## Brian Watts

Hello Firstreno, 
If the laundry area is about 2000 mm wide and the slab above is thick and reinforced enough to span all other rooms which are wider, I would be very surprised if the toilet wall was structurally critical, especially if there is only one storey above you. 
The wall most probably is load bearing only in the sense that the slab was poured on top of it.  The question is, however, would the same slab design have worked without relying on this wall being load bearing.  I guess that the slab design would have been exactly the same if this toilet wall had not been there. 
I reckon that it would be worth having a Structural Engineer have a look at it for you.  If there is a stumbling block, it will be the Engineer wanting to refer to the original structural drawings, which most likely will not be available for a building this age.

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## lukemc

im in the same boat as first, where does one get in contact with a structural engineer in sydney?

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## China

Look in the yellow pages under consulting engineers

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