# Forum Home Renovation Roofing  Roof carpentry opinions needed on completed work.

## celestem

Hi
I just had some work completed, and my roof plumber pointed out some things that he thought were wrong with the roof carpentry, that could affect tiling.  :Shock:  
1.  Tile tilt fillet too low and exposing the rear of the fascia.
2.  Poorly installed rafters - cracked tops or not hard up against ridge beam.
3.  The vertical distance from the top of the fascia to the top of the rafter is 60mm, yet my existing roof tiles sit on 25mm hard wood battens. 
See attached photos. 
My roof carpenter hasn't replied to two emails so far, so I am a little suspicious, but don't want to get concerned until I hear some more opinions.  :Rolleyes: 
Are there any experienced people here who can comment whether this work is to industry standard. 
Many thanks
Gordon

----------


## rod1949

Very pool workmanship.  Not in accordance with the Building Code of Australia / Australian Standards etc. 
Are you an Owner Builder?  Have you paid him? or 
Is a Builder doing the job?

----------


## Bedford

I agree it's very poor. 
With the last pic, are they ceiling joists butted into the ledger on the brick wall? :Smilie:

----------


## jags

Holly crap that is the worst work i have seen in a long time ,i really hope you have not paid him yet ?
 there are some job that i will not atempt as i feel that i do not have the ability to do them as well as a pro ,but i will now have to reconsider this as  i think i could have done a better job blindfolded and with one arm.  
I have a great carpenter that i use and maybe able to help he does everthing but specalise in roofs carpentry .
walters carpentry services think his number is 0412 395 475 brad  he is hard to get a hold of put very good .
It might pay to get him or somebody else to have a look at the work and quote to fix it because as Rod mentioned there is no way that is up to code ?  
best of luck 
rob

----------


## celestem

OMG!  Unfortunately I have paid the company that did the work.
Now this really concerns me....and it is not good as they are a specialist roof builder!!! 
It worries me how shocked most of the responses were... 
What do you think my options are now?  I wanted to have the roof tiles put on next week, and don't want too many hold ups. Is there a builders or carpenters guild or registration board of some sort that would enforce rectification of the work done by their members? 
Should I have an independent building inspector come out to look at it?
I may have to threaten legal action, but in doing this I would have to be prepared to follow through.  Maybe any costs of inspection and rectification could be recouped through civil action. 
What do other's think is the best course of action??

----------


## celestem

Are any of you who have responded roof carpenters by trade?

----------


## rod1949

Have a look and/or get in touch with this mob Building Commission : Building Commission, Western Australia

----------


## celestem

The rafters obviously look dodgy, especially as they don't or barely meet the ridge board which will lead to cracking like one has already. 
What about the barge boards and the tilt fillets on the end that expose the fascia?

----------


## estwing

> The rafters obviously look dodgy, especially as they don't or barely meet the ridge board which will lead to cracking like one has already. 
> What about the barge boards and the tilt fillets on the end that expose the fascia?

   Sorry mate but you have been well and truly ripped off with this effort.I have cut many roofs in my time and never seen anything as bad as that . Was the work done by a licenced tradesman?. Best course of action take it down and start again hope you can get your money back.

----------


## Stan 101

yes, the rafters to the ridgeboard are poor but not the worst I've seen. A variable angle joist hanger would fix up that issue as would a ledger bolted/screwed to the ridgeboard to support the joists from the underside, depending on spans. If left you will get some movement. 
Call the principal of the business and speak to them about your concerns. Follow up with photos on email or in person. Be calm and simply state you would like the work completed to the timber framing code. I'd also push for an independent certifier to run an eye over all the work and check timber designs and sizes. 
cheers,

----------


## celestem

> I'd also push for an independent certifier to run an eye over all the work and check timber designs and sizes.

  This sounds good...by an "independant certifier" do you mean a general building inspector, or someone who specialises in roof inspections?

----------


## celestem

> A variable angle joist hanger would fix up that issue as would a ledger bolted/screwed to the ridgeboard to support the joists from the underside, depending on spans. If left you will get some movement.

  Thanks for the suggested solution, I will suggest these to the roofing contractor if I hear back from him.  I take it that any roof carpenter should know what a variable angle joist hanger and a ledger bolt is?? 
I was also thinking that reinforcing the the top of the rafter with a short length of rafter connecting plumb to the ridge board and bolted hard against the dodgy one would be a good idea.  Is this plausible.

----------


## celestem

> [...] never seen anything as bad as that . Was the work done by a licenced tradesman?. Best course of action take it down and start again hope you can get your money back.

  The work was done by a timber supply company who also has a team of roof carpenters to carry out the construction if required. 
Most of the work is OK, but I must admit, when they actually told me that had finished and were starting to pack away tools, I climbed around the roof and found another 3hrs of extra work to do for three men (about a man day of labour) - this did not impress me so say the least.  I hate to imagine what must go on if work is not ever inspected!?  How many people renovating don't climb up there to check it out...bloody annoying and could be very costly to fix down the track with next to no comeback if years pass...Where has the pride in workmanship gone and whatever happen to measure twice and cut once!!

----------


## celestem

> Very pool workmanship.  Not in accordance with the Building Code of Australia / Australian Standards etc. 
> Are you an Owner Builder?  Have you paid him? or 
> Is a Builder doing the job?

  Yes I am an owner builder

----------


## Stan 101

> Thanks for the suggested solution, I will suggest these to the roofing contractor if I hear back from him.  I take it that any roof carpenter should know what a variable angle joist hanger and a ledger bolt is?? 
> I was also thinking that reinforcing the the top of the rafter with a short length of rafter connecting plumb to the ridge board and bolted hard against the dodgy one would be a good idea.  Is this plausible.

  A variable joist hanger should be sourced from the timber supplier, yes. The ledger is just a piece of timber connected to the ridge board by a bolt of screw. I'd not mention either options to the supplier. It's their mistake, let them sort it. Without looking at the job, I could not confirm either scenario will definitely work.
I just mentioned that to let you know that yes it is poor workmanship, but in reality it is not that bad to rectify.  :Smilie:   
Calmly but forcefully state that you want a rectification detail signed by an engineer to fix the rafter to ridge board connection. If they can't offer you a certified rectification, they can simply pull down the rafters and lean to cut a correct plumb cut. 
If they refuse and you reach a stalemate, put it in writing and cc a copy to the BSA. 
cheers,

----------


## celestem

> If they refuse and you reach a stalemate, put it in writing and cc a copy to the BSA.

  Who is the BSA?

----------


## Stan 101

sorry, I just realised you are in WA. The BSA is the building authority in QLD. Find the relevant authority in WA. 
cheers,

----------


## Bloss

:Wts: - as an owner builder you must have a Certifier or inspector to sign off the work - you should get one involved now - before going any further.  :2thumbsup:  
Look here http://www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/ 
and contact here: http://www.builders.wa.gov.au/default.aspx?MenuID=184

----------


## nickbo

celestem, 
I am just looking at getting some work done too and am in Perth, Yikes ! 
I guess my concern is "major supplier" and would like to know who that is (might save 25c in calling them to get them to quote). You might not want to post it, but a PM sure would be appreciated.... 
Cheers 
nickbo

----------


## jags

Hi celestem  
really sorry to here about your situation .And  sorry that i can not be of help  as i am no carpenter even if i sometime like to think so .  
i would do as the others have mentioned and ring the masters biulders association   MBA - Master Builders Western Australia :: About Us 
Maybe they can help .I would also get another carpenter to quote on the repair costs and tell the timber suppier you wont the work redone as it is not up to code and if they do not do so  you will be proceeding with  legal action agaist them in the small claim court to recoup this cost .  
i have found that if you say big words and pretend to know what you are talking about most company get all scare  and come running.
I'm have a similar proplem with a perth outdoor furniture company that sells outdoor lounges that can not go outside . :Confused:  As they fade and loose all colour in only 8 week .....  
As i am not a carpenter i can not tell you what to say but maybe others here could start a list to help you when you call them .
Oh and i would go for the replacement angle not the repair ,something that is repaired is never as good as something  done right the first time .
Also could you tell me how the company is ?
As a friend is getting some work done next week here in perth and i would hate for it to be the same one ,  i think it is only fair to name and shame after that kind of work .
best of luck 
rob

----------


## celestem

If anyone is interested ,* (Naughty Naughty)*  , who also construct, did the work. 
Disclaimer  :Smilie:  - As I am not a professional building inspector or carpenter I can not categorically state whether this work is up to standard, and understand that all discussion in this thread is mere opinion or speculation.  Do seek professional advice or further verification before relying on anything mentioned *by me* in the Renovate Forum.  *Admin Note*  *Please check the forum rules before naming Names.*

----------


## watson

*Further Admin Note:*
It's not just the rules ..........its actual fact. Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued 
Just a heads-up

----------


## jags

Sorry did not mean to cause a problem. 
I should have ask you to PM me with it . 
Trust that to happen on the Hotcopper site it's a great site but hard to find the facts from between all the fiction people write sometime .    
 Go NSE up 12% today and worth a look . 
Sorry getting my forums mixed up now ..

----------


## watson

No sweat...I'd just hate to see lawyers get rich on our members for them having made a mistake.
There'll be more of this as the blood-suckers get wind of it.

----------


## Vernonv

> There'll be more of this as the *blood-suckers* get wind of it.

  That sounds a little defamatory Noel ... you'd better watch out or those [s]scum sucking leeches on society[/s] hard working, long suffering members of the legal profession will track you down.  :Wink:  :Biggrin:

----------


## watson

:Rotfl: 
Maybe I should have said "Ambulance chasing, Tertially Qualified Low-lifes". 
My Bad.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Bloss

Blokes like in this tale you mean: 
The Duck and The Lawyer.... 
A big-city lawyer went duck hunting in Goolagong in rural NSW.  He shot and dropped a bird but it fell into a farmer's field on the other side of a fence. 
As the lawyer climbed over the fence, an elderly farmer drove up on his tractor and asked him what he was doing. 
The lawyer responded, "I shot a duck and it fell in this field and now I'm going to retrieve it." The old farmer replied, "This is my property and you are not coming over here." 
The indignant lawyer said, "Thats totally unreasonable! I didnt shoot the duck on your land, Im just retrieving it! I am one of the best lawyers in Australia and if you don't let me get that duck, I'll sue you and take everything you own." 
The old farmer smiled and said, "Apparently, you don't know how we settle disputes in Goolagong.  We settle small disagreements like this with the 'Three Kick Rule." 
The lawyer asked, "Whats the 'Three Kick Rule'?" 
The farmer replied, "Well, because the dispute occurs on my land, I get to go first. I kick you three times and then you kick me three times and so on back and forth until one gives up." 
The lawyer quickly thought about the proposed contest and decided that he could easily take the old codger.  He agreed to abide by the local custom. 
The old farmer slowly climbed down from the tractor and walked up to the attorney.  His first kick planted the toe of his heavy steel-toed work boot into the lawyer's groin and dropped him to his knees. 
His second kick to the midriff sent the lawyer's last meal gushing from his mouth. The lawyer was on all fours when the farmer's third kick to his rear end sent him face-first into a fresh cow-pat. 
The lawyer summoned every bit of his will and remaining strength and very slowly managed to get to his feet. Wiping his face with the arm of his jacket, he said, "Okay, you old fart, now it's my turn." 
The old farmer smiled and said, "Nah, I give up.  You can have the duck."  :Biggrin:

----------


## watson

Or I like......... 
"What's the difference between a Muscovy Duck and a Lawyer"??? 
Nothin' 
They can both stick their bill up their rrrrr's

----------


## barney118

Pictures like this make me as an owner builder proud, I only have myself to blame for stuffing something up and I will go buy another and start again. Its more the challenge and satisfaction of doing it right and not getting paid by the hour. The old saying measure twice cut once. Take your time and do it right first time, its hard enough demolishing and then rebuilding let alone stuff it up and rebuilding.

----------


## celestem

> *Further Admin Note:*
> It's not just the rules ..........its actual fact. Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued 
> Just a heads-up

  Woops sorry!  Will keep quiet in future.
Are PM allowed for anyone who requests it? 
I am not arguing against the forum rules but I was careful to state that my view was not fact. 
FYI - Defamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In many legal systems, adverse public statements about legal citizens presented as fact must be proven false to be defamatory or slanderous/libel. Proving adverse, public character statements to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel and/or defamation. Statements of opinion that cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense. The use of the defense of justification has dangers, however; if the defendant libels the plaintiff and then runs the defense of truth and fails, he may be said to have aggravated the harm. 
Another important aspect of defamation is the difference between fact and opinion. Statements made as "facts" are frequently actionable defamation. Statements of opinion or pure opinion are not actionable. In order to win damages in a libel case, the plaintiff must first show that the statements were "statements of fact or mixed statements of opinion and fact" and second that these statements were false. Conversely, a typical defense to defamation is that the statements are opinion. One of the major tests to distinguish whether a statement is fact or opinion is whether the statement can be proved true or false in a court of law. If the statement can be proved true or false, then, on that basis, the case will be heard by a jury to determine whether it is true or false. If the statement cannot be proved true or false, the court may dismiss the libel case without it ever going to a jury to find facts in the case.

----------


## watson

G'day mate,
PM's are OK.
In the case of the forum rules, this one is basically for self-protection for the members.
If the members don't comply with that rule.....I just delete the offending portion.....'cos I can  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

----------


## celestem

> G'day mate,
> PM's are OK.
> In the case of the forum rules, this one is basically for self-protection for the members.
> If the members don't comply with that rule.....I just delete the offending portion.....'cos I can

  Fair call...as it is a grey area, best to tread on the safe side.

----------


## Terrian

> G'day mate,
>   just delete the offending portion.....'cos I can

  damned power crazed site admins  :Biggrin:

----------


## dib

Can you say "I would not recommend "so and so" for a job like this" .  Seems to fit with the forumn rules ....

----------


## watson

Thinking.....it still "bags" the company.........but it is within the rules. I'll seek extra opinion.

----------


## watson

Ok the opinion is in. *Keep to the facts and make it polite - also make it clear what is fact and what is opinion.* 
(That will keep me happy)
An additional thought is added: *You can no longer defame a company, but you can defame a sole trader or an employee or a director of a company.* 
These are not rules..this is how the law stands.
(And I don't think as a forum we should be into defamation anyway) 
Just for info and your own protection.

----------


## Fossil

Back to the topic...... I agree that the work depicted in the photos is very poor.
Some good advice has been given regarding the course of action to take, but do not be pressured to continue building because of a schedule. The existing work needs to be inspected by qualified and independent persons, and then rectified before you continue.
I am not clued up on the laws etc in your state, however.... generally speaking.... the original contractor should be given the opportunity to rectify the work, after he has been issued with an independant report. If he does not rectify the work, you should take as many photos as possible, and a video of the work in place as well. Have the inspecotr sign off on all of the evidence. You may be able to then have the work rectified by a decent tradesman, and have a decent chance of chasing up the costs from the original contractor. These are just some ideas. If you have a suitable regulatory authority in your state, you are probably best off taking their advice on the course of action. 
As a fully licenced builder with over 30 years experience, it greatly annoys me when I see substandard work. It brings all of us good builders down, and leads to onerous regulations that cost big money.  
Good luck with your project.

----------


## celestem

After talking to some building inspectors, they were not cheap at around $200 per hour.   Typical estimates to attend site to inspect and follow up with a report would take 2-2.5hrs which translates to $400-$500 dollars!!   :Eek:  
I finally made contact with the company that did the work and was prepared to proceed with an official building inspection if necessary, and after mentioning this fact to them, their lead carpenter came out and spent 3hrs fixing and reinforcing. 
The rafters were fixed up with trimmers fitted against the ridge board, between the suspect rafter connections, along with collar ties.  Followed by a general tidy up elsewhere in the roof with with extra wood and nails in a few other places. 
I proceeded to inspect and am some was fairly satisfied so proceeded to tile the roof. 
I would like to think that professional experienced tradesman would do a decent job but unless you are very familiar with the person(s), you have to be very vigilant and inspect carefully, else dodgy work will prevail.

----------


## kinnean

Hi Celestem 
Just about to start my roofing. Can you PM me the name of the company so I don't use them. Cheers

----------


## AWL9

Hi guys 
I am new to the forum and was doing a little reading and came across this thread .
I am a roofing contractor and have been for 20 yrs.
It saddens me to see workmanship of this quality because I would not except this from a first year apprentice. The first thing an apprentice should be taught is if you wouldnt accept it on your house dont do it on someone elses. If taught this from the start then pictures like the ones in this thread would not be seen. 
Any time a piece of timber is nailed into a structure I has to be looked at first what I mean is you have to be looking at what your nailing and when is a five to ten millimetre gap in a rafter ridge intersection acceptable NEVER.
The problem is some are in to much of a hurry to make more money and the inevitably rush but what they must realise is that quality comes first and speed comes with time AND HAVE SOME GOD DAME PRIDE IN WHAT YOU DO.

----------


## powersawphd

Problems- Rafter plumb cuts out 7degrees, fix by put triple grips both sides of rafter to ridge joint.
               Bell cast- do when your roof tiler is onsite, as long as the fascia isn't to high up on the rafter it's no biggy. The fillet block is the easiest thing to fix.
 Collar ties, purlins and purlin struts maybe necessary depending on member sizes and spans, consult your plan(if you have one) for engineering.
The fix here isn't worth getting a lawyer on the case, just go see the contractor and threaten if he doesn't fix it you'll get the wa'bsa on it. 
  So many things have change in the trade over the 25years I've being doing it, now people get tickets out of cornflakes packets. The government has reduced requirements for apprenticeships and created regulations peripheral to the fundamental things which tradies should be focused on, all in the name of creating revenue. So lawyers aren't the fix, they are mostly the problem as the majority of of pollies have law degrees.
  Reputation and community spirit used to be important in Australian life, now everybody's out to become rich and greed has taken over. Most good chippies are being exploited and aren't earn alot of money over the year, with all the costs involved.
  If I was 16 again I wouldn't become a carpenter (probably go accountancy), because at 42 my body is half fecked from hard work- no super, no nothing, just a sore back, rotor cuff issues and arthritis!  
  The amount of times people have said $50/hr is expensive to me is sicking- htf am I meant to build a life on less? but a lawyer can charge $500/hr and it's fine!
At my age, once upon a time you would of matriculated into a management role, but now uni-degrees straight out of school have those jobs- I wonder if the consumer is really better off ????
 If you go on price alone- this is what you get! a mug job at a cheap price.
HORAY! for capitalism- OP is probably a property speculator!  :2thumbsup:

----------


## powersawphd

> Hi guys 
> I am new to the forum and was doing a little reading and came across this thread .
> I am a roofing contractor and have been for 20 yrs.
> It saddens me to see workmanship of this quality because I would not except this from a first year apprentice. The first thing an apprentice should be taught is if you wouldnt accept it on your house dont do it on someone elses. If taught this from the start then pictures like the ones in this thread would not be seen. 
> Any time a piece of timber is nailed into a structure I has to be looked at first what I mean is you have to be looking at what your nailing and when is a five to ten millimetre gap in a rafter ridge intersection acceptable NEVER.
> The problem is some are in to much of a hurry to make more money and the inevitably rush but what they must realise is that quality comes first and speed comes with time AND HAVE SOME GOD DAME PRIDE IN WHAT YOU DO.

  
I cannot for the life of me understand why they didn't use trusses in this case as it isn't exposed and they are the most cost affective result.
These guys have pride in their new navara's!

----------


## ringtail

Oh man thats crap work, but nothing out of the ordinary. Ive seen an awful lot worse than that. One of the main issues is not many young chippies know how to pitch a roof and if it aint trusses they run away or do sub standard work like that. 
Did you go to the BSA seminar the other night powers ? Some good workmanship on display there NOT. 
$ 50 an is too cheap mate. I charge $ 60 + GST and justify it by saying if a plumber can charge 
$ 120 hr for gluing and welding pipes together then by rights I should be charging  $ 200 /hr. What a lot of people dont realise is that the chippy employed by a builder and getting $ 40 /hr is actually getting charged out to the customer at around $ 100 hr. 
To the OP, I dunno how it works in WA but In QLD the BSA doesnt want to know anything about it if you are an owner bulder - no matter how dodgy the work is, you are on your own.

----------


## powersawphd

Wouldn't waste my time going to a seminar, I don't do free consultancy!
They do have a penalty system here in qld and the issue of notifications to rectify- you can punch in a qbsa number at their website to check on any license holder's record, which would be a wise move if you where an O.B. about to get subbies onto a contract.
Me myself, I use invert tan on a scientific calculator to obtain the rafter length using the roof angle supplied on plan and the half span- the half thickness of the ridge board.
  If marrying into an old roof (like in ol'mates photo) all it takes is a spirit level, a bevel gauge and half a brain. 
Real trouble is the dumbing down in the education system, I had a young n useless in 2008- he was talking about get his builders license, I replied you could start by learning your times table first! already he was praying for the death of grand mah, so he could do a speckie on her house for a fat profit.  :Annoyed: 
Yes mate, you cannot buy a kilo of experience!
I am still amazed at the lack of use of a2+b2=sqroot of c2 in general building practice and also if doing a house, I get the surveyor to throw some shots onto my profiles while he's there.
 Few good chippies around, but they pick their clients because of the fear of not being paid, which should really be a criminal offense and would clean up the industry ultimately. For now the power is in the hand of the ones with the coin, but few and fewer good chippies remain, because there is easier ways to turn a better buck without all the fears and insecurity involved- me I am starting to seriously look at sales rep work, walk the walk, talk the shiat!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
So ol' mate its not a big deal your rough roof, just a little fix up- could be done in a day by a competent carpenter easy! 
Wearing harness ffs!

----------


## powersawphd

> A variable joist hanger should be sourced from the timber supplier, yes. The ledger is just a piece of timber connected to the ridge board by a bolt of screw. I'd not mention either options to the supplier. It's their mistake, let them sort it. Without looking at the job, I could not confirm either scenario will definitely work.
> I just mentioned that to let you know that yes it is poor workmanship, but in reality it is not that bad to rectify.   
> Calmly but forcefully state that you want a rectification detail signed by an engineer to fix the rafter to ridge board connection. If they can't offer you a certified rectification, they can simply pull down the rafters and lean to cut a correct plumb cut. 
> If they refuse and you reach a stalemate, put it in writing and cc a copy to the BSA. 
> cheers,

  so which country other then Australia did you do you carpentry trade?
Variable joist hanger?
What do they slide to different lengths?
Tripe!  
You say ledger! he died last year!
I guess you mean a collar tie, but maybe a purlin strut is another punt down field.
An engineer would say put triple grips down all sides 4X4 nails in each flap of the grip and gal straps over the rafters at  birds-mouths around the underside of top-plate and back to the top of the plate as per bsa code.  (probably want a cool $1000 for appearance money- pay for his hecs debts!).
WTF would you get a engineer to do a job twice, look at your plans- then get the framing signed off after it's finished and ready for cladding-aka roof tiles.  
We keep making white collars rich these days. meanwhile carpenters are picking up the crumbs and getting a$$holed by no nothings like this jobby!
Give him "a bolt of screw!" must be an engineer out of work!  :Wink:

----------


## ringtail

When I was doing my time that method of obtaining the rafter length was taught to me by my trainer      ( not at TAFE). Works great eh. Got to make sure you take off half the ridge though ( Only forget once) at least the rafter is longer than it should be - bonus.

----------


## powersawphd

> When I was doing my time that method of obtaining the rafter length was taught to me by my trainer      ( not at TAFE). Works great eh. Got to make sure you take off half the ridge though ( Only forget once) at least the rafter is longer than it should be - bonus.

  I learned it in 2nd form intermediate maths (equivalent to 3 unit maths at university these days, lol) called trigonometry!
shows up in the plumb cut placing the centring rafter set if you do-little bit obtuse in the plumb cut, crown ends, get the novice big time!
 Tafe wasn't bad back in the day when you did your own hand written notes, unlike whats going now, which makes it easy for teachers to mark.
 I had an ol'stick Mr. Van Haren, he was a chippy and a successful builder- God is good he used to say!
I was thinking is this guy a frikken Islamic or what!
But really it's all going to the weeds nowdays out there on the sites in general. Doing stair installations, I see a different site everyday and really it's pretty shocking standards for mine.
Caveat emptor!
ps- cut n paste this disclaimer thingy, I did!

----------


## r3nov8or

> so which country other then Australia did you do you carpentry trade? *Variable joist hanger?*
> What do they slide to different lengths?
> Tripe! 
> ...

  See page 8 for variable hanger  http://www.pryda.com.au/uploads/Prod...uly%202009.pdf   :Wink:

----------


## powersawphd

> See page 8 for variable hanger  http://www.pryda.com.au/uploads/Prod...uly%202009.pdf

  Now try putting them on rafters that are already fixed off to the ridge!
  Type 80085 into your calculator! what does it say?

----------


## r3nov8or

> Now try putting them on rafters that are already fixed off to the ridge!
>   Type 80085 into your calculator! what does it say?

  Get out the recip, cut the exposed nails flush with the ridge beam and slide the hanger up. Done.

----------


## powersawphd

> Get out the recip, cut the exposed nails flush with the ridge beam and slide the hanger up. Done.

  So why isn't a triple grip each side good enough?
Done!

----------


## r3nov8or

> So why isn't a triple grip each side good enough?
> Done!

  I didn't say it wasn't. You were the one questioning whether a variable joist hanger even existed, or were too shortsighted to see how it could be retrofitted in this situation.

----------


## watson

:Spyme:

----------


## powersawphd

> I didn't say it wasn't. You were the one questioning whether a variable joist hanger even existed, or were too shortsighted to see how it could be retrofitted in this situation.

    
Maybe it's a just case of you love using your reciprocating tool?
Your idea is a waste of time!
 Possible, even simple for some roosters- but far from the wisest, most cost effective and efficient choice to fix ol'mate's problem there!
Wouldn't use "the variable joist hangers" on even a new roof- never seen them used anywhere either- but I've only been doing carpentry professionally for 25years.

----------


## powersawphd

> After talking to some building inspectors, they were not cheap at around $200 per hour.   Typical estimates to attend site to inspect and follow up with a report would take 2-2.5hrs which translates to $400-$500 dollars!!   
> I finally made contact with the company that did the work and was prepared to proceed with an official building inspection if necessary, and after mentioning this fact to them, their lead carpenter came out and spent 3hrs fixing and reinforcing. 
> The rafters were fixed up with trimmers fitted against the ridge board, between the suspect rafter connections, along with collar ties.  Followed by a general tidy up elsewhere in the roof with with extra wood and nails in a few other places. 
> I proceeded to inspect and am some was fairly satisfied so proceeded to tile the roof. 
> I would like to think that professional experienced tradesman would do a decent job but unless you are very familiar with the person(s), you have to be very vigilant and inspect carefully, else dodgy work will prevail.

  No variable joist hangers mentioned there!
sounds like the chippy cleated the rafter pairs together hard up under the ridge board- probably with scrap 70x35 from the skip bin!(note he called them trimmers, which they are not!)
So the company got it right in the end and it would of got picked up by the framing inspection anyhow as is required by the regulations!
And ol mate lost sleep over it....such a shame.
Pity he didn't show some photos of the fix, so we could pick eyes out of it to!

----------


## r3nov8or

> Maybe it's a just case of you love using your reciprocating tool?
> Your idea is a waste of time!
>  Possible, even simple for some roosters- but far from the wisest, most cost effective and efficient choice to fix ol'mate's problem there!
> Wouldn't use "the variable joist hangers" on even a new roof- never seen them used anywhere either- but I've only been doing carpentry professionally for 25years.

  Just a quick reminder that I wasn't the one who mentioned variable joist hangers in the first place, I was only suggesting how they _might_ be used since they were mentioned and you didn't seem to think they could be used here. Maybe Stan 101 uses them all the time? Maybe not, but it really doesn't matter. Just one of the many options... But of course I am learning there is only one way - yours. It will sink in one day, give me time, I am merely mortal. 
To the OP, sorry you had so much trouble, hopefully it's all smooth sailing from here on...

----------


## powersawphd

> Just a quick reminder that I wasn't the one who mentioned variable joist hangers in the first place, I was only suggesting how they _might_ be used since they were mentioned and you didn't seem to think they could be used here. Maybe Stan 101 uses them all the time? Maybe not, but it really doesn't matter. Just one of the many options... But of course I am learning there is only one way - yours. It will sink in one day, give me time, I am merely mortal. 
> To the OP, sorry you had so much trouble, hopefully it's all smooth sailing from here on...

  More likely he's sells them.
The only time I would use them if they where apart of the specified engineering in approved plans- even then I might contact the engineer to say WTF for, why not a length of perforated gall strap 600mm long nailed over each rafter set? Again its quicker, cheaper and gets the same result strength wise.
The whole point I made is about the most common sense fix- As people in this post were getting all "American" about it (most of them not carpenters), bringing in the Lawyers to something that took 3 hours of probably $35/hr to rectify!
You can put a man on the moon! 
or go to the fridge and grab a cold beer!
Aptitude not attitude, goes further towards learning something, at lest I don't resort to sarcasm. I'll stick to abstract duplicity for my retort!  :Pash: 
The learning never stops until the brain does.

----------


## r3nov8or

> ... at lest [sic] I don't resort to sarcasm ...

   :Rolleyes:  
of course not, condescension is your specialty

----------


## watson

The thread is finished & closed while these two blokes go and mark their respective territories  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

----------

