# Forum Home Renovation Television, Computers & Phones  NBN Connection Dilemma

## GraemeCook

Good Morning Everyone 
  Have just spent a frustrating half hour on the phone to the NBNCo, and got nowhere beyond Its easy, your service installer should be able to answer that question.   Perhaps someone here can help me in planning for our NBN connection. 
  Yesterday I got a letter from NBNCo saying that the service was now available for my residence, (but nothing is yet connected) and that the copper phone line will be disconnected on 31 December 2014.   I have 18 months to connect to the fibre. 
  My house is heritage listed, 130 years old with cavity brick exterior walls and solid double brick internal walls, solid plaster, cornices, etc, lathe & plaster ceilings, no access under floors;  any new wiring will be difficult.   Aesthetics are important.   The 12 year old nerd on the corner says Easy-peasy, just run Cat-5 cables with RJ45 connectors.  But it is difficult to hold a conversation in English with him.   Naturally, I will have to consider both phone and broadband services. 
My existing system consists of:   ·         Two pre-existing phones, presumably installed by Telstra 20+ years ago.·         Two other phones installed by me using double adaptors and extension leads with old style large plugs/sockets.·         ADSL2+ modem (Netgear DG834Gv5) installed by me using double adaptor plus filter.·         2 PCs, laptop, iPad, iPhone connected wirelessly to modem.·         Red Cross medical alarm system connected to primary phone.   
My ISP, iinett, also sent me a letter advising that for basically what I now pay for ADSL2+ and phones, I can get a 100/40 NBN plus VOIP phone with free national landline calls.  This seems a good deal. 
Now, how do we install it all, in a way that is both technically feasible and aesthetically acceptable.   We do not want to damage cornices or plasterwork, internal walls are solid so nowhere to run cables, do not want the boxes in a major hallway, etc.   So far, the best option that I can think of is to install the boxes in the top of a built-in wardrobe, about 2.4 metres above floor level and about 10 metres from the likely optical fibre entry point : -    ·         Blinking lights visible simply by opening wardrobe door(s),·         NBN Boxes accessible with a step ladder,·         Easy to have power points installed,·         NBN router can be installed there for wireless connection to existing PCs, etc,·  %o we install it all, in a way nbsp;   Unsure about VOIP phones  do they connect wirelessly, can we connect to existing copper in roof cavity & use existing handsets, must we rewire, must we buy new phones????·         Can and should we use a non-VOIP phone.  Will this cost more??·         Will the medical alarm work?   (Currently not used, but need may return)  
  Sorry to ask such basic questions but my information gathering process is creating more uncertainties than it is answering.   Probably, I do not yet know enough to ask the right questions!  But I do have 17.5 months to act.  
  Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Pulse

http://www.nbnco.com.au/assets/docum...s-and-mdus.pdf 
This shows the details, if you want something cosmetic you get to pay for it. NbnCo will feed the lead in fibre along your conduit to an acceptable place, running the conduit is the expensive bit. Bite the bullet and get it all chased into your walls, expensive and messy but worthwhile in the long run, 
cheers
pulse

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## Uncle Bob

I believe the new NBN boxes have a ADSL port on them so you can just connect them up to you existing phone wiring and use an existing ADSL modem. Otherwise you might be able to put a wireless router in the NBN box and do away with wires altogether. 
I'll have further info in three years when the NBN get to my place (if the numpty Libs don't get in and can it).

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## Armers

> My house is heritage listed, 130 years old with cavity brick exterior walls and solid double brick internal walls, solid plaster, cornices, etc, lathe & plaster ceilings, no access under floors;  any new wiring will be difficult.   Aesthetics are important.   The 12 year old nerd on the corner says Easy-peasy, just run Cat-5 cables with RJ45 connectors.  But it is difficult to hold a conversation in English with him.   Naturally, I will have to consider both phone and broadband services. Where and how does the current phone line run into the house? 
> My existing system consists of:   ·         Two pre-existing phones, presumably installed by Telstra 20+ years ago.·         Two other phones installed by me using double adaptors and extension leads with old style large plugs/sockets.·         ADSL2+ modem (Netgear DG834Gv5) installed by me using double adaptor plus filter.·         2 PCs, laptop, iPad, iPhone connected wirelessly to modem.·         Red Cross medical alarm system connected to primary phone. Does your ISP know this?    
> My ISP, iinett, also sent me a letter advising that for basically what I now pay for ADSL2+ and phones, I can get a 100/40 NBN plus VOIP phone with free national landline calls.  This seems a good deal. 
> Now, how do we install it all, in a way that is both technically feasible and aesthetically acceptable.   We do not want to damage cornices or plasterwork, internal walls are solid so nowhere to run cables, do not want the boxes in a major hallway, etc.   So far, the best option that I can think of is to install the boxes in the top of a built-in wardrobe, about 2.4 metres above floor level and about 10 metres from the likely optical fibre entry point : -    ·         Blinking lights visible simply by opening wardrobe door(s),·         NBN Boxes accessible with a step ladder,·         Easy to have power points installed,·         NBN router can be installed there for wireless connection to existing PCs, etc,·  %o we install it all, in a way nbsp;   Unsure about VOIP phones  do they connect wirelessly, can we connect to existing copper in roof cavity & use existing handsets, must we rewire, must we buy new phones???? Its possible to connect the Voip service back into a normal two pair copper system, which is what i do at home·         Can and should we use a non-VOIP phone.  Will this cost more?? You can use a normal phone, i am using an old RED rotary dialer on my voip (Old PMG 801)·         Will the medical alarm work?   (Currently not used, but need may return) you will need to tell your ISP this. they need to know and they will do some more tests on the line at install day  
>   Sorry to ask such basic questions but my information gathering process is creating more uncertainties than it is answering.   Probably, I do not yet know enough to ask the right questions!  But I do have 17.5 months to act.  
>   Fair Winds 
> Graeme

  If there is anything else you want to ask go ahead. I am an NBN Fiber installer.. I do the fibery bit from the street all the way into the house for the ISP's and install all the NBNCo gear.  
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

> http://www.nbnco.com.au/assets/docum...s-and-mdus.pdf 
> This shows the details, if you want something cosmetic you get to pay for it.

  Thanks Pulse. 
I had seen this document but, because of its repeated references to the responsibilities and tasks of developers and builders, I had apparently erroneously presumed that it related to new-builds only.   Doubt if I could get my houses builder to do anything as he's been dead for 100 years!   And the entire house predates electricity, plumbing and sewerage - all were retrofited. 
Back to the drawing board.   We will have 18 months to think about it, before they switch off the copper, or Abbott switches off the NBN.    

> NbnCo will feed the lead in fibre along your conduit to an acceptable place, running the conduit is the expensive bit. Bite the bullet and get it all chased into your walls, expensive and messy but worthwhile in the long run, 
> cheers
> pulse

  
I fully appreciate the rationality of what you are saying but we have a 130 year old house with Heritage listing in a suburb that is almost entirely Heritage listed.  We like it that way.  To do anything we have to comply with the whims of the Heritage Commission, National Trust, local council and the busybody on the corner.   Wall paper in one room has been "notated", attributed to be very early, possibly original. 
Chasing into the walls would be prohibitively expensive, not just "messy and expensive".   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## GraemeCook

> I believe the new NBN boxes have a ADSL port on them so you can just connect them up to you existing phone wiring and use an existing ADSL modem. Otherwise you might be able to put a wireless router in the NBN box and do away with wires altogether. 
> I'll have further info in three years when the NBN get to my place (if the numpty Libs don't get in and can it).

  ADSL modem/router won't be able to handle the speed of the NBN.   My reading of the iinett stuff is that the old phones will not work on their routers; but I could be wrong. 
I have only half as long as you to switch over.  
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## GraemeCook

> If there is anything else you want to ask go ahead. I am an NBN Fiber installer.. I do the fibery bit from the street all the way into the house for the ISP's and install all the NBNCo gear. 
>  Cheers

  Thanks, Armers. 
Could you clarify, please.   You do installations into the house for the NBNCo and also simultaneously do the cabling inside the house for the home owner?    I thought that two entirely separate contractors had to be involved.   Where and how does the current phone line run into the house?
Phone line connects to the barge board at the fron of the house.   NBN cable has been laid under the footpath so one guesses that the connection will be underground.   ·         Red Cross medical alarm system connected to primary phone. Does your ISP know this? 
No,  should they?   Netspace/iinett is my ISP since dial-up days, and Telstra do the phone.   Unsure  about VOIP phones  do they connect wirelessly, can we connect to  existing copper in roof cavity & use existing handsets, must we  rewire, must we buy new phones???? Its possible to connect the Voip service back into a normal two pair copper system, which is what i do at home  ·         Can and should we use a non-VOIP phone.  Will this cost more?? You can use a normal phone, i am using an old RED rotary dialer on my voip (Old PMG 801)   Does this mean you have NBN and have connected your old phones to the router, or am I missing something.   My recollection is that NBN/iinett literature specifically excluded rotary dial phones?    ·         Will the medical alarm work?   (Currently not used, but need may return) you will need to tell your ISP this. they need to know and they will do some more tests on the line at install day  
OK,  will do.  
Am I being presumptive, but the NBN seems to be the death knell of the phone system as we know it.  In future voice communication will be an appendage of the web??  
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Uncle Bob

> ADSL modem/router won't be able to handle the speed of the NBN.

  Scratch that. On reading the NTD manual, it appears they dropped the idea of having a faux ADSL connection on the NTD. 
Edit:
Geez, I'm really behind the times as it was dropped in 2010  :Smilie:  Updated: ADSL emulation port scrapped from NBN plans - alcatel-lucent, national broadband network, nbn co, Network Termination Unit, NBN - Computerworld

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## Armers

> Graeme

   
I'll respond with what is happening up here in Melbourne  :Biggrin:  
I handle all the NBNCo equipment, The fibre optic from the connection in the street all the way to the NTD and PSU in the house. So I pull the fibre in either underground or over head depending on the house. As we've been told to install like for like. For example if the client has an over head connection already (ie you) we're to install the fibre over head to the house (connect to you barge board).  
As for two contractors, there isn't for most ISP's as far as i know (this might change in the future). Normaly the NBNCo contractor does his stuff and then the ISP will send out a modem and some instructions on what to do next. Telstra is the only ISP (in Melbourne atm) who then cables AFTER the NTD data points and reconnects there old phones into the new NBN Equipment.  
So if you were in Melbourne i would come and represent NBN and connect (overhead) the outside fibre, run the indoor fibre to your BIR, mount the NTD and PSU. Plug it into the power point you need to provide. Run all my tests plus extra ones because you've got a medisystem. Thank you and then walk away. IINet would send you a router in the mail and thank you and leave you handle the rest.  
With the medialert systems, because your ISP will be taking over your phone systems they need to know if any critical systems connect to your phone. If a client has a medi system on there phones we run some extra tests when we do the installs at these houses.  
I use a little add on device that makes the rotary work with voip. It doesn't always work so the phone is normally used for answering calls rather then making them, the dialler is too slow for my voip box. The NTD has a "voice connection" on the box itself.. you just run two pair copper from there to the nearest phone point and that will send the voice back into the old two pair.  
You'll find most phone systems will run via a voip type medium once it leaves your house, its a cheaper way to run phone calls its also cheaper for the phone calls as well. Ie 10c untimed Australia wide.   
Uncle Bob : 4 Data points and two Voice points are all that left on the NTDs these days. You just need a router to connect to the net these days.  :Biggrin:  
Cheers

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## r3nov8or

Great description Armers! I reckon you will get more popular on here! 
GraemeCook, much of the NBNCo document can be applied to installs into exiting premises, and says -  
"Prohibited Locations
...
- A confined area with restricted air circulation
- Examples: A closed cupboard, wall cavity, or area restricted by curtains, clothes, or furniture.
..." 
So maybe you will have to ensure there is adequate ventilation in your cupboard. And as Armers says a power outlet. And I'd chuck in a smoke detector too...

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## woodbe

> So if you were in Melbourne i would come and represent NBN and connect (overhead) the outside fibre, run the indoor fibre to your BIR, mount the NTD and PSU. Plug it into the power point you need to provide. Run all my tests plus extra ones because you've got a medisystem. Thank you and then walk away. IINet would send you a router in the mail and thank you and leave you handle the rest.

  Armers, can you comment on use of this gear during a power failure? 
I had heard that the equipment can take a rechargeable battery to maintain comms during blackout, but this was quite some time ago. Is this still the case?  This is obviously of some concern for people relying on the phone system for health emergencies. 
woodbe.

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## r3nov8or

I think you get to opt in for a battery backup unit at your own expense.

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## Armers

> Great description Armers! I reckon you will get more popular on here!

  Cheers for that  :Biggrin:  
As for the area to be installed, don't forget its an electrical device that will be on all the time.. They don't get warm but they need to breath. In cupboards are fine but i wouldn't then pack all the linen around it.    

> Armers, can you comment on use of this gear during a power failure?

  The PSU unit comes with a 12volt backup in it.. it should be good for about 10-12 hours on idle lower if you use the services. As someone who needs it for medical reasons we run a few battery monitoring tests. Your account also gets marked that your on a medi system as well, so both the ISP and NBN know you need it for those reasons.   
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

> Great description Armers! I reckon you will get more popular on here!

  Fully agree,  Armers has been very helpful.    

> So maybe you will have to ensure there is adequate ventilation in your cupboard. And as Armers says a power outlet. And I'd chuck in a smoke detector too...

  Unfortunately, not workable.  Wardrobe is ceiling height (3.35 metres) and their is heeps of space and ventillation in the top section, but unfortunately it is above the maximum allowabl;e height of 1.7 m for the NBN gear.   The bottom section is fully utilised for storage and their would be insufficient ventillation. 
Back to the drawing board.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Armers

> Back to the drawing board.

  Why? Did you want it installed there, then install it there. If there is an issue with it then then ask the installer on the day. Its your house and you're the one who is going to live with it for the rest of your time. If there is an issue with it then you ask him/her what he suggests.  Hell if you help the tech on the day he'll be grateful either way.  
You have the final say. I've done three moves because techs get wifes to sign off on installs, all good until husband gets home (or vis versa). Final install is up to house owner (within reason)  
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

> I'll respond with what is happening up here in Melbourne  
> I handle all the NBNCo equipment, The fibre optic from the connection in the street all the way to the NTD and PSU in the house. So I pull the fibre in either underground or over head depending on the house. As we've been told to install like for like. For example if the client has an over head connection already (ie you) we're to install the fibre over head to the house (connect to you barge board).  
> As for two contractors, there isn't for most ISP's as far as i know (this might change in the future). Normaly the NBNCo contractor does his stuff and then the ISP will send out a modem and some instructions on what to do next. Telstra is the only ISP (in Melbourne atm) who then cables AFTER the NTD data points and reconnects there old phones into the new NBN Equipment.  
> So if you were in Melbourne i would come and represent NBN and connect (overhead) the outside fibre, run the indoor fibre to your BIR, mount the NTD and PSU. Plug it into the power point you need to provide. Run all my tests plus extra ones because you've got a medisystem. Thank you and then walk away. IINet would send you a router in the mail and thank you and leave you handle the rest.  
> With the medialert systems, because your ISP will be taking over your phone systems they need to know if any critical systems connect to your phone. If a client has a medi system on there phones we run some extra tests when we do the installs at these houses.  
> I use a little add on device that makes the rotary work with voip. It doesn't always work so the phone is normally used for answering calls rather then making them, the dialler is too slow for my voip box. The NTD has a "voice connection" on the box itself.. you just run two pair copper from there to the nearest phone point and that will send the voice back into the old two pair.  
> You'll find most phone systems will run via a voip type medium once it leaves your house, its a cheaper way to run phone calls its also cheaper for the phone calls as well. Ie 10c untimed Australia wide.  
>  Cheers

  
Thank you, Armers, the mist is starting to clarify. 
If I have read your "like for like" connection policy correctly......    The NBN cables have already been installed underground under the footpath in front of my place.   To enter my house via the bargeboard, as Telstra now does, would involve running a cable from that cable via a new trench to the telegraph pole, then run cable in a conduit up the pole, and then across to my house facia.  If this is correct, it seems that it is one of those things that only a government would do.  
So once you install the NBN stuff, I wait until the postman delivers the router and instructions from IINett, plug it in, and watch my computers accelerate.   What about the phone connection?   Do I just plug the old phone system into the new NBN box or the IINett router, or what?
(IINett literature quotes $9.95 per month for a VOIP phone service with free landline calls (local & STD), very cheap overseas calls and calls to mobiles at approximately current rates.) 
Also what happens to the old copper system.  Does Telstra come along and Repossess their wire? 
Fully appreciate your advice on the medialert.   My wife is currently in remission and we have not needed it for two years, but the situation could change very quickly. 
Once again, thank you for being so patient.  
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Armers

> Thank you, Armers, the mist is starting to clarify. 
> If I have read your "like for like" connection policy correctly......    The NBN cables have already been installed underground under the footpath in front of my place.   To enter my house via the bargeboard, as Telstra now does, would involve running a cable from that cable via a new trench to the telegraph pole, then run cable in a conduit up the pole, and then across to my house facia.  If this is correct, it seems that it is one of those things that only a government would do.  
> So once you install the NBN stuff, I wait until the postman delivers the router and instructions from IINett, plug it in, and watch my computers accelerate.   What about the phone connection?   Do I just plug the old phone system into the new NBN box or the IINett router, or what?
> Also what happens to the old copper system.  Does Telstra come along and Repossess their wire? 
> Fully appreciate your advice on the medialert.   My wife is currently in remission and we have not needed it for two years, but the situation could change very quickly.

  Like for like is how its going here in Melbourne. The contracting company is installing the the new trenching and conduit up the pole if needed and then charging NBN. This wont happen until a tech comes out and states that, that is the issue.  
The phone connection will need to be cabled in to the voice port on the NTD (or the voice port new router) which means getting someone in to cable it up for you, normaly a rj45 behind the NTD which is connected back to the first point in the house, then disconnecting the outside telstra world.  
The old coper two pair will stay hung on the house until someone comes and takes it down probably way after dec 2014. 
re the medialert... tell them, get the tests doesn't cost any more (as far as in know). 
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

> Why? Did you want it installed there, then install it there. If there is an issue with it then then ask the installer on the day. Its your house and you're the one who is going to live with it for the rest of your time. If there is an issue with it then you ask him/her what he suggests.  Hell if you help the tech on the day he'll be grateful either way.  
> You have the final say. I've done three moves because techs get wifes to sign off on installs, all good until husband gets home (or vis versa). Final install is up to house owner (within reason)  
> Cheers

  My reading of Section 4.2 was that the NBN Box had to be installed between waist and shoulder height, like switchboards.   And that disabled access was mandatory. http://www.nbnco.com.au/assets/docum...s-and-mdus.pdf
My wardrobe is fully utilised to a height of 2100 mm,  then there is about 3,000 litres of airspace above that.   Hence my original concept of mounting the NBN stuff at a height of about 2.4 metres.   Visibility and access would both require a step ladder, and it is well above 1700mm. 
The more I build my database, the more likely an elegant solution is likely to emerge.    
Let's keep the debate flowing.  
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## GraemeCook

> Like for like is how its going here in Melbourne. The contracting company is installing the the new trenching and conduit up the pole if needed and then charging NBN. This wont happen until a tech comes out and states that, that is the issue.  
> The phone connection will need to be cabled in to the voice port on the NTD (or the voice port new router) which means getting someone in to cable it up for you, normaly a rj45 behind the NTD which is connected back to the first point in the house, then disconnecting the outside telstra world.  
> The old coper two pair will stay hung on the house until someone comes and takes it down probably way after dec 2014. 
> re the medialert... tell them, get the tests doesn't cost any more (as far as in know). 
> Cheers

   
Thanks again, the pictures building.  
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Armers

That high requirement is there so they don't have to worry about the techs working at heights (heh!) Personally I would be happy to install the equipment up there for you. Many a installs on  the top shelving of WIR's behind clothing.  
As i've mentioned before, its where you as the house owner feel comfortable with the install.  
Happy to continue spitting facts for you! 
Cheers

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## Tools

NBN are pretty  strict with their requirements but for brownfields SDUs it may come down to the installer that you get on the day. Clipsal and others make NBN enclosures that may be of use to you,  
Tools

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## Armers

> NBN are pretty  strict with their requirements but for brownfields SDUs it may come down to the installer that you get on the day. Tools

  You are correct sir, we're audited like no tomorrow  :Biggrin:   
Brownfield SDU's are the bane of my existence lol. It ends up being a good convo with the client on the day to work out what every party is happy with. 
Thankfully Greenfield installs are 60% builders infrastructure, therefore most of the work is done for us. Makes things easier.   
Cheers

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## Tools

Armers, are you working on any MDUs? 
Tools

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## Armers

> Armers, are you working on any MDUs? 
> Tools

  Yaha done a handful in Brunswick

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## Tools

I find myself seconded to work on NBN MDUs at the moment. I have one in Lygon St at the moment. You working on that with GFS? Another one in Lygon St starting shortly. 
Tools

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## Armers

I've not worked on a build in an MDU yet. Only built in Greenfields. The only work i've done in an MDU environment are demand tickets (service activations). I would love to move more into the build side but hard to find someone to take me on.  
Fiber is just a skill atm, not the major roll i want to be in, looking for an electrical role, someone to take me on as a sparkie. While still utilising my datacomms background....  
I digress this is not a resume! This is a thread to get Graeme high (on) speed!

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## Armers

> Fair Winds 
> Graeme

  Are we high speed Graeme yet?! 
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

No Armers 
Everything has stopped. 
Telstra do not know what to do about asbestos in pits,  NBNCo is running round in circles, contractors say NBNCo does not pay bills, subcontractors have stopped work and are laying off staff ..... 
Telstra and NBNCo seem more inept than their political masters.    
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## r3nov8or

Keep flying the flag, Graeme...

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## Armers

> No Armers

  
ohhhhhhh you've stop stopped  :Frown: ...  
You'll get there in the end

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## GraemeCook

PROGRESS REPORT 
NBNCo and Telstra are still unable to deal with the issue of asbestos in pits and the NBN roll out has totally stalled in Tasmania.   The issue seems so insoluable that the unions have stopped bleating.  The subcontractors were silenced earlier - "Talk and you're sacked." 
The cynics are saying that nothing will happen until after the election !   And then it will slow down. 
As an aside, I walked my dog around my suburb and noticed that most of the communication pit hatch covers (lids, doors ? ) were labelled "PMG", a government department that was dismantled over 40 years ago.   Looks like Bob Menzies was responsible for the asbestos problem.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## PhilT2

A big government construction job having problems? Gee, that's never happened before.
The NBN rollout here in Logan has stalled too, but I,ve been too busy to chase somebody up and find out what's going on. Might be still sorting out the asbestos issue. There's been asbestos pits out there for years, just like all the other asbestos out there, it's not a problem if it's handled correctly. Very few of these pits will need to be replaced and all this drama would have been avoided if people had done their job properly. Old story; pay peanuts.....

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## GraemeCook

*NBN Update* 
Good Morning 
Six weeks since my last post, so I thought I should give an update on the progress of the NBN roll-out in Tasmania.  * Absolutely nothing has happened.*  There appear to be three separate and so far unresolved disputes - one between Telstra and NBNCo  and the second between prime contactor Visionstream and NBNCo and the third between Visionstream and a host of subcontractors.   Telstra and NBNCo are not releasing any public information, and (allegedly) the subcontractors have been told that if they say anything publicly then they will be black-listed. 
From what is available publicly, we know that Telstra own the communication pits, a high proportion are lined with asbestos, and that the copper system will be switched off 18 months after the NBN cable passes your premises.   Telstra have over 100 years of creating and servicing the copper telecommunications distribution network and 18 months after the optical fibre is installed then that system becomes totally valueless (scrap copper value only).   Their role changes from being the monopoly provider of the phone distribution system, to just another retailer (albeit, a big one) operating from the end of the optical fibre, only.   Given the plumeting value of the pits to Telstra, they will not spend anything avoidable on their maintenance, such as the costs of removing asbestos.   Meanwhile they have the NBNCo over a barrel knowing that they cannot proceed until someone agrees to bear the costs of asbestos removal and probably the transfer of ownership of the pits and conduit system to NBNCo.   No one has blinked, so far.   Stuff the public! 
Meanwhile, Minister Malcolm Turnbull has repeated announced that he did not stop the NBN roll-out in Tasmania.   It had already stopped well before his election.   This is very true.   He has also said that the Coalition will honour all existing contracts for the NBN program. 
Simultaneously, Visionstream is in dispute with NBNCo.  Allegedly their contract terms are "too low" and NBNCo is refusing to renegotiate.   Did they bid low to get the job, erroneously underbid, underestimate the costs of laying fibre, or are they just opportunistly trying for a better price??   Rumours abound that they do not have the depth of management or the financial resourses to complete the job, but who knows??  A contract is a contract is a piece of paper.... 
Meanwhile, Visionstream which operates largely as a head contractor has deferred the flow of work and payment to a multitude of small subcontractors, often small family owned businesses, allegedly in breach of their contracts and commonly putting severe financial pressures on these subbies.   Their banks are also looking after the banks.   The subbies have been forced to lay off a very high proportion of their staff;  many have now gone to the mines. 
One big mess.   And no one seems to be able to make any progress.   Turnbull says he will honour existing contracts;  no one seems to know whether there are still any existing contracts, or whether the contractors have the resources to complete them. 
One real big mess.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## snowyskiesau

The NBN rollout map still shows my location as 'starting installation September 2013'. 
No sigh of any such activity so far. Seems like I'm stuck with a flaky copper pair for a bit longer, much longer.

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## Uncle Bob

Mine (in ACT) is down for 2015. I guess that's out the window now  :Annoyed:

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## Armers

Lol I don't even qualify on the list..  
Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 4

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## GraemeCook

> The NBN rollout map still shows my location as 'starting installation September 2013'. 
> No sigh of any such activity so far. Seems like I'm stuck with a flaky copper pair for a bit longer, much longer.

  
For a laugh, ring NBN.   They make Southern Water sound intelligent.

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## GraemeCook

*Today's Update* 
This mornings newspapers carries the news that Minister Turnbull has sacked virtually the entire board of the NBNCo.   He was too polite to say that it was for crass professional incompetence! 
No board, no direction, do not hold your breath waiting for NBN fibre.    
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Uncle Bob

> This mornings newspapers carries the news that Minister Turnbull has sacked virtually the entire board of the NBNCo

  Good lord that was like a month ago. Was that on the fish n chip wrapper?   

> He was too polite to  say that it was for crass professional incompetence!

  If you believe what he said, you deserve to stay on ADSL. 
At the present, I feel that Malcomn isn't an idiot. Though if he pushes on on with this stupid idea of FTTN instead of FTTP, then history will prove he is indeed an idiot.

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## woodbe

Well, there is some hope at last:  Malcolm Turnbull appoints internet entrepreneur Simon Hackett to NBN Co board - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) 
Many of us are familiar with Simon, he was Mr Internode until he sold it off. He has a lot of experience and has already made suggestions regarding the NBN rollout:  Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget | Simon Hackett 
woodbe.

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## johnc

At least some sign that they are serious about getting the job done, let's hope Malcolm also wants to get the job done properly. I suspect he is the main reason the NBN is still a possibility his side wanted to dump it until they settled on a "we will do it differently" (FTTN) which seems more face saving than anything else.

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## GraemeCook

*Another Update* 
Telstra, NBNCo and Visionstream are still unable or unwilling to install any more NBN underground distribution cables - those big green ones.   But where those cables have been installed they are doing connections to* individual* premises.  This cuts out all flats, duplexes, apartments and most commercial premises (eg there is a flat above local IT store!).   Connection from underground cables is to run an optical fibre up a telegraph and then into houses.  Connection is at a snails pace, appointments made and then ignored, repeatedly.   According to the ever reliable Murdoch press the NBN work force has been reduced from 550 to about 50! 
As for me, my ADSL2+ is with netspace/iinet and they have been more reliable than most in Tasmania.   But they do not yet have phone number portability so I will wait - hopefully will not be long.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## GraemeCook

NBN connections continue to be made at a snails pace and most of my friends and acquaitances who have been connected have had very frustrating experiences.    Virtually universal approval once the NBN is connected and debugged.   But a difficult road to get there. 
Part of the problem seems to be that there are multiple parties involved - NBNCo, Visionstream, Telstra, ISP, sub-contractors, cablers, and that call centre in India - and none of them talk to each other.   There is a consistent pattern to the experiences: appointments made for the installation, client takes time off work and no one turns up, repeatedly.records of appointment and job numbers consistently "disappear" or are "disappeared" from the database.installers insist that the NTD, battery pack, etc must be installed in the lounge room or whatever is directly behind the exterior connection point.work starts and then installers disappear.   Point 2 above kicks in.installation apparently completed, testing done and installers disappear.   Point 2 above kicks in.testing successful, copper disconnected, then optical fibre fails and it takes an interminal time to fix the problem.   Point 2 above kicks in.   Three friends of mine, all in the Battery Point/Sandy Bay area of Hobart, were left without any form of landlines for phone or internet for 2 - 4 weeks. 
Meanwhile we have received a letter to advise that the copper network in our street will be disconnected just before Christmas.  Several towns in Tasmania have been advised that their copper network will be cut off late next month even though 40% of homes and businesses are not yet connected to fibre.    We will wait a little longer and hope that things improve.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Random Username

I was talking to a work colleague the other day; she had heard the odd horror story about NBN installations.   
As she had formerly been a journalist, her approach was to record all phone calls and approach it like an interview. After that "Your call may be recorded for coaching or blah blah blah" message that you typically get, she would then say to the person on the line "I am recording this call, and this recording may be sent to (Telstra managment or whatever) or uploaded to my YouTube channel and shared publicly.  If this is not acceptable, please transfer me to another operator or your supervisor."  
She then confirmed everything said;  "Your installer will be here between 8 am and 12 noon tomorrow, Tuesday the blah blah blah, is that correct?" "If the installer cannot make it, they will phone me on my mobile number of (prompt to get indian phone droid to read the number back)"  
Her install went well...

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## Armers

Most of my clients here in Melbourne has been getting there appointments and getting the installs done and connected, but as you mentioned in your post they're having some of the same problems. The biggest one at the moment is back to back installs and still choices for installs. I know why they're doing it, as the contractors are saving money with shorter cables but its sad that the client is getting screwed in the process.  
It will be interesting to see what happens with the first of the FSAMS get there copper switched off in 4 weeks. I am sure there is going to be an influx of installs as well as complaints! 
We'll see
Cheers

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## GraemeCook

You are right, Armers. 
Also, back to backs are far quicker to do so they can move onto the next job. 
Eighty year old neighbor who was "back to backed" now cannot get her side table back into the corner where it has been for the last 50+ years as that where the NTD is.    "I could not argue with the man from the government.".  Sh*t. 
In the towns where the copper will be switched off next month 40% have yet to switch to fibre.   Some are deliberately opting to go mobile, only, but many who do not use the Internet believe that they do not have to do anything.  Just stay with the existing phone.  They get the letters from NBNCo, see the broadband reference and bin it unread as they are not interested in computers!  Will be interesting in about 4weeks.   
Fair Winds 
Graeme

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## Cecile

> *Another Update* 
> Telstra, NBNCo and Visionstream are still unable or unwilling to install any more NBN underground distribution cables - those big green ones.   But where those cables have been installed they are doing connections to* individual* premises.  This cuts out all flats, duplexes, apartments and most commercial premises (eg there is a flat above local IT store!).   Connection from underground cables is to run an optical fibre up a telegraph and then into houses.  Connection is at a snails pace, appointments made and then ignored, repeatedly.   According to the ever reliable Murdoch press the NBN work force has been reduced from 550 to about 50! 
> As for me, my ADSL2+ is with netspace/iinet and they have been more reliable than most in Tasmania.   But they do not yet have phone number portability so I will wait - hopefully will not be long.   
> Fair Winds 
> Graeme

  I have a friend who lives in remote Tasmania...one of the people that the NBN was meant service in the first place.  She can't even get ADSL due to her distance from the nearest telephone exchange, and there's never been a phone line into her house.  For a year now she's been fighting with Telstra for some kind of booster/antenna (not quite sure, really) so she can have some kind of service...forget reliable, it's just a connection.  And they want her to pay some ridiculous sum of money for the privilege.   
The word "unfair" pops into mind, but to be frank, fast internet is an essential service in the 21st century.  We city (and regional) folks have it so easy.

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## Random Username

It's not all easy being city folk, either, you know.   
Back in the early 2000's it was impossible for anyone living in the Gungahlin region of Canberra (seven suburbs) to get an ADSL connection; Telstra, in their infinite wisdom had fibre to the node infrastructure, but all the node cabinets were filled with pair-gain interface cards that hard limited the line speed to 28.8kbps - half as fast as the better dial-up modems (56k) of the time.   
Telstra was still installing pair-gain systems as late as 2009...you could be 15 minutes drive from Parliament House, yet have worse internet speeds than regional Australia. Telstra obviously thought that 'the internet thingy' was just a passing fad.  
(If I'm ever looking for a new house, a fibre connection is mandatory. No fibre, no buy).

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## Black Cat

I may be coming into this conversation a bit late to be useful to the OP. But, were you aware that you can channel wires through your solid plaster? Basically it requires a chanelling tool, then you lay the wires, and then you re-plaster the area. If done by a competent practitioner it should be impossible to see the joint, as long as you repaint the wall. 
It is a common solution to the addition of new technology in heritage listed places, and one that should be acceptable to whichever body has listed yours. The connections externally will presumably be subterranean so there would be no impact on the external appearance of the place other than the entry point of the cabling. 
As to NBNCo, be grateful you even have NBN. I won't bore you with the six month battle I have had with Telstra and its various minions to obtain something remotely resembling a reliable connection at my place.

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## Armers

> I may be coming into this conversation a bit late to be useful to the OP. But, were you aware that you can channel wires through your solid plaster? Basically it requires a chanelling tool, then you lay the wires, and then you re-plaster the area. If done by a competent practitioner it should be impossible to see the joint, as long as you repaint the wall.

  If you're going to go down that path then you are better to use slimline trunking right in the cnr of the skirting board right next to the floor and then paint it, less hassel less mess!

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## Armers

Graeme,  
I've finally got a decent product name of the slimline, i actually used it the other day in a job. Great Stuff! If anyone is interested its great stuff and quite invisible.  3M  One Pass Mini Fiber Pathway 
Cheers

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## David.Elliott

My place of work is in Burswood WA.
Recently we had the NBN go past the door, quite literally 20 feet from the front door.
Couple of weeks later, boss had a call from a company looking to bring it into the building...YAY we all said..
Guy turns up has a look, talks to the business that is on the other half of the title, and comes back.
Conversation goes...
Him, So where's the third unit?
US, there isn't one there's just the two of us.
HIM, ok, well we have a problem then
US, what's that?
HIM, well... I hold the contract to do 3 units and above, a bloke I know has the contract to do singles but, "the contract to do two units has not yet been awarded and             we don't know when it will be..."
US...well we did not know quite what to say.... 
Calls to ISPs including the one we have currently supplying our 6 ULLs similarly draws a blank..What I believe is also the case as our street is primarily residential, with 6 or so businesses at the end, our NBN will be residential grade, meaning contended 10/1. So we possibly could end up with a 10mbps speed if everyone jumps on it.
Currently we have non contended 14 up and down guaranteed, but it costs us a lot...

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## uncleted

Not sure what you mean by "residential grade" and contended 10/1. 
NBN currently uses GPON which is fibre with up to 32 splits giving a contention ratio of 1.333:1.  Presently they only use around 19 of those splits (the rest are saved for future use) giving you a ratio of 0.79:1.  Any contention you'd actually get would be with whatever RSP you choose not having sufficient backhaul. 
Not sure what business grade NBN would be (as in they don't really offer it as far as I know. Or maybe they do now?)

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