# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  how long will these 1kg gas cylinders work for when MIG welding?

## wozzzzza

want to get a gas cylinder for occasional mig welding, how much welding will I get out of one of these? https://www.bunnings.com.au/tradefla...ridge_p5910285

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## Mvest

I pay $12 a month for my g size cylinder from elgas and $66 per fill. They deliver it to my place.  
I find this is waaaay better value than those little 1kg ones.
With my tig they did approx 30 minutes of welding per cylinder so you'd wanna be pretty good with your weld to get the most out of it

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## wozzzzza

ok, i'll probably go with the big one from Bunnings I think. $99 plus a deposit of some sort you get back when you return the bottle, keep as long as you like.

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## Mvest

Try it out. 
Once you get real enthusiastic with it you'll end up getting a g size. That's always what ends up happening

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## Whitey66

> ok, i'll probably go with the big one from Bunnings I think. $99 plus a deposit of some sort you get back when you return the bottle, keep as long as you like.

  This is what's on the Bumrings website -  Never pay rent again. Purchase Argon gas including a cylinder deposit (I/N - 5910385) and when you are finished with your gas cylinder return it for a cylinder refund (I/N - 5910385). 
Gas comes in a Cylinder, a fully refundable deposit is required to be paid at time of purchase.  Size D cylinder (2.1m3)Never pay rent againReturn your empty cylinder for a cylinder refund (I/N- 5910385) 
 So does this means that the $99 includes the deposit because those first 2 sentences above contradict each other?
Does anyone know what the deposit is for a D cylinder? 
With Gasweld you can buy the D bottle full of gas for $339, then pay $97 for refills. 
I've got a G size that was full with a second hand mig welder I bought , and the guy said "don't ask any questions about the bottle, but don't return it".
I must learn how to decant gas   :Smilie:

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## ringtail

10 minutes out of the baby cylinders. Waste of time and money

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## PlatypusGardens

> I pay $12 a month for my g size cylinder from elgas and $66 per fill.

  
That's cheap! 
I pay $90 to fill E size at Blacksmith Jack's
I should probably shop around a bit.   :Sigh:    
Didn't know Elgas did welding gas BTW.
hmm

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## PlatypusGardens

> This is what's on the Bumrings website -  Never pay rent again. Purchase Argon gas including a cylinder deposit (I/N - 5910385) and when you are finished with your gas cylinder return it for a cylinder refund (I/N - 5910385). 
> Gas comes in a Cylinder, a fully refundable deposit is required to be paid at time of purchase.  Size D cylinder (2.1m3)Never pay rent againReturn your empty cylinder for a cylinder refund (I/N- 5910385) 
>  So does this means that the $99 includes the deposit because those first 2 sentences above contradict each other?
> Does anyone know what the deposit is for a D cylinder? 
> With Gasweld you can buy the D bottle full of gas for $339, then pay $97 for refills. 
> I've got a G size that was full with a second hand mig welder I bought , and the guy said "don't ask any questions about the bottle, but don't return it".
> I must learn how to decant gas

  
Hmm not sure but other places do a similar deal where you pay $100 or $200 for *the bottle* (D size) and $99 to refill.
Keep the bottle as long as you like, refill as many times you want, the get the deposit back if/when you return the bottle.    
As for decanting gas.....I think you need a special funnel....   :Unsure:

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## Marc

I asked the question to Bunnings a few times but had only conflicting information not surprisingly.
For MIG I bought an E size bottle from Speedgas, since I believe the D size to be too small for MIG, however for casual oxy welding or heating, the two little D size are just perfect, so my question to Bunnings was if I actually own the bottle or if I am holding someone else's property. 
At first they said I own it, so I said I can cut it up and make a garden ornament with it? Sure do what you want was the reply.
Then I asked if I can put an ad on ebay and sell it legally. And if so what do I show as proof of ownership. They got coy now. 
No conclusive answer and they ended up referring me to their supplier Coregas, and I haven't bothered ringing them. Have better things to do.
I will probably get oxygen and acetylene from Bunnings anyway due to the ease of swap and go, but I will consider this to be rental and not ownership.

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## wozzzzza

I called up last week to see if I could sort out that conflicting information as it didn't make sense to me either, they said around $200 deposit and cant remember the refill amount but under $100.

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## PlatypusGardens

> I called up last week to see if I could sort out that conflicting information as it didn't make sense to me either, they said around $200 deposit and cant remember the refill amount but under $100.

  
Probably the same deal as BSJ then.
most likely run by the gas company and not the store itself, as such.  
Yes, the bottle is essntially yours to do what you want with....once you've paid for it.
Sell it if you want, so what....what's the buyer gonna do with it?
I guess the way they look at it is, the cost of the bottle is covered with your deposit (or whatever you wanna call it) so it's no loss to them if it doesn't come back.   
It's probably a good deal for someone who welds a bit once a month or whatever.
Actually, a mate got that deal from BSJ now that I think of it.
He definitely doesn't weld a lot....fixes his kids pedal car or puts a bracket on his bullbar for spotties or something.
But that's it.
So in that case it probably is worth it....   :Smilie:

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## wozzzzza

> It's probably a good deal for someone who welds a bit once a month or whatever. 
> So in that case it probably is worth it....

   that describes me, so probably worth it for me.
just gotta find my pressure regulator.

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## Marc

> That's cheap! 
> I pay $90 to fill E size at Blacksmith Jack's
> I should probably shop around a bit.     
> Didn't know Elgas did welding gas BTW.
> hmm

   It's the old conundrum. Rent and pay cheap gas or buy your cylinder, pya no rent but pay expensive gas.

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## PlatypusGardens

> It's the old conundrum. Rent and pay cheap gas or buy your cylinder, pya no rent but pay expensive gas.

  
Hang on...G size is bigger than E, right? 
he said: "I pay $12 a month for my g size cylinder from elgas and $66 per fill"  
Well...I pay more rental AND more to fill an E size bottle.   :Unsure:

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## Marc

Probably has his sizes confused. G is the biggest one, E is the moderate one, D is the plumber's one, the rest is too small to consider. The disposable ones are for a one off job if that.   Cylinder Information | BOC Australia - A Member of The Linde Group

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## Marc

> Hang on...G size is bigger than E, right? 
> he said: "I pay $12 a month for my g size cylinder from elgas and $66 per fill"  
> Well...I pay more rental AND more to fill an E size bottle.

  $12 a month is normal rent for an E size, $66 is very cheap refill for an E size. "Your own" cylinder refill is about $120 from memory. 
It is all a big con anyway you look at it because even when you "own" the cylinder, you can not get it filled to a cheaper supplier but have to go to them ...

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## PlatypusGardens

> $12 a month is normal rent for an E size, $66 is very cheap refill for an E size. "Your own" cylinder refill is about $120 from memory. 
> It is all a big con anyway you look at it because even when you "own" the cylinder, you can not get it filled to a cheaper supplier but have to go to them ...

  
Pretty sure my E bottle is $90 to fill and $60/quarter for rent

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## Marc

Well, you pay 240 a year, I used to pay 190 a year a few years back, so just about the same, he pays 144, that is cheap but it can not be a G size, unless he rents 20 bottles.
The differential price of the gas, if you rent or you own is what gets me most. It's the same product why is it sold at two different prices?

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## PlatypusGardens

> The differential price if you rent or you own is what gets me most. It's the same product why is it sold at two different prices?

  to make up for the money they don't get from bottle hire? 
Dunno

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## Marc

Sure, its as fair as the M phone plans or the private health fund 'deals'.
The sale of the gas per kilo should be the same if you rent or not, I can understand that it is a ruse to make money, yet I don't understand how they can get away with it. 
If you go to the supermarket and buy 2 litre of milk for 3 dollars if you take it away yourself or you pay $1.5 if they deliver it to you at a cost of $10 sounds like a con to me  :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Fluxcore chaps.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Fluxcore chaps.

   :Smack:  Stop  :Smack:  Going  :Smack:  On  :Smack:  About  :Smack:  Flux  :Smack:  Core

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## PlatypusGardens

:Rofl5:

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## Whitey66

> Sure, its as fair as the M phone plans or the private health fund 'deals'.
> The sale of the gas per kilo should be the same if you rent or not, I can understand that it is a ruse to make money, yet I don't understand how they can get away with it. 
> If you go to the supermarket and buy 2 litre of milk for 3 dollars if you take it away yourself or you pay $1.5 if they deliver it to you at a cost of $10 sounds like a con to me

   What makes me cranky is that Argon gas is a by-product of the process of purifying Nitrogen, Oxygen, Neon, Krypton (nothing to do with Superman) and Xenon and it's the third most abundant gas in the Earth's atmosphere.
Basically we're paying big bucks for a waste product that is in ample supply.

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## Whitey66

> As for decanting gas.....I think you need a special funnel....

  Haha, even though it's heavier than air I don't think that will work.
You just need a special hose and lots of time.
And even then, you can only fill till the pressures in both bottles are equal.
Maybe heating the filler bottle to a higher temperature will get more out of it (joking).

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## Marc

Of course it does. All you need is to build a decanting hose with no regulator. You will not be able to fill the other cylinder but you can top it up from time to time as your go.

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## Mvest

Could be a good way to test the old Darwinian natural selection theory

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## Whitey66

> Of course it does. All you need is to build a decanting hose with no regulator. You will not be able to fill the other cylinder but you can top it up from time to time as your go.

  Do you realise how dangerous it would be without a regulator??
2400 psi in a rubber hose, it will want to be a good one. 
You could almost completely fill one if you had several full bottles to do it.

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## ringtail

> Stop  Going  On  About  Flux  Core

  
Start using it then  :Biggrin:

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## PlatypusGardens

Maybe I will

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## phild01

I'm just excited fluxcore rates, it's all I have ever used... was feeling a bit shabby!  :Yippee:

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## ringtail

I think not a lot of DIY types even know about it. Pros and cons like any other process but for sheer versatility it can't be beat IMO.

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## Mvest

Just gotta know how to use it. 
I prefer gas but I always have a spool of flux core in case of emergencies. 
But I haven't touched the mig since I got the tig

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## PlatypusGardens

> I'm just excited fluxcore rates

  Yeh, by ringtail  :Rolleyes:  
he never likes anything anyone else likes.     :Rofl5:    

> I think not a lot of DIY types even know about it. Pros and cons like any other process but for sheer versatility it can't be beat IMO.

  I think everyone knows about it, yet most people seem to stick with gas shield.
meh.    

> Just gotta know how to use it. 
> I prefer gas but I always have a spool of flux core in case of emergencies. 
> But I haven't touched the mig since I got the tig

  So was that tig gas you were talking about before when you said G size bottle for $60?

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## Mvest

I pay $60 (or $66) to refill. Advantage is that they bring it to me and take the empty away for free.
And I pay $12 rental a month.  
I don't mind paying rental if the service is there. I just hate paying rental to boc and the like when I have to drive there and get treated like my business don't matter

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## PlatypusGardens

> I pay $60 (or $66) to refill. Advantage is that they bring it to me and take the empty away for free.
> And I pay $12 rental a month.

  Yeah you said that already, I was asking what kind of gas it is. 
And confirming that it is a G size bottle?
(big one)

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## Mvest

Oh sorry
It's argon 
And yes G size

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## ringtail

> Yeh, by ringtail  
> he never likes anything anyone else likes.       
> I think everyone knows about it, yet most people seem to stick with gas shield.
> meh.

  
That's true. I don't like what most others like because what most others like is @@@@@. I do like your stuff though  :Biggrin:  
I really don't think many people know about FC or they would use it. But no, they persist using stick. Or poxy solid wire because they can't weld vertical up  :Biggrin:

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## PlatypusGardens

> That's true. I don't like what most others like because what most others like is @@@@@. I do like your stuff though

  
awwwww, shucks     

> I really don't think many people know about FC or they would use it. But no, they persist using stick. Or poxy solid wire because they can't weld vertical up

  I'll tell  you where you can stick your stick.  
as for vertical welds......rarely seem to do them

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## Marc

> I'm just excited fluxcore rates, it's all I have ever used... was feeling a bit shabby!

  Flux core wire is used for structural welding in buildings and public works, so clearly is a perfectly good method of welding. And not affected by wind when outside. 
I started using it now for thick steel. Just finished welding a series of brackets for handrail, made out of 6mm steel cut out of an old lintel. Good penetration nice and flat weld. Drawback is very smokey and sometimes has a fit and does not want to start and must cut the wire 10 times. Could be crapp wire too, I don't know. It's called XcellArc E71T-GS 
 and it's easy 5 years old.  :Whatonearth:  
Vertical weld? Just a matter of practice. As long as you go up and not down you are OK. And go fast!

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## ringtail

> awwwww, shucks     
> I'll tell  you where you can stick your stick.  
> as for vertical welds......rarely seem to do them

  Most of my site welding is vertical up - think PFC's to columns etc... No strength in any vertical down weld in any process so it pays to learn how to do them properly. Out of position welding is the most important thing to master. Not everything is on a bench and sometimes you just can't position yourself ideally so one must be adaptable

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## ringtail

Had a site welder come out today to tig up some ally balustrade joins. Heaps of them around a 7 storey building un refirb. Very windy today up here so the poor bugger had his reg cranked right up. Did well though. He was using a cheapy Chinese inverter HF start ACDC tig which cost $540. Obviously it's a stick welder too. Looked to be a nice little jigger. Might look at getting something like that and getting back into tig.

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## Mvest

Now you're talking! 
I bought a tiny little scratch tig inverter first and was hooked! 
I've now gone and bought a "bosswell" 200amp hf ac/dc from eBay and, for what I do, it's the ants pants. 
Made up some aluminium racks for the maintenance ute last week. Aluminium is a pr!ck to weld so, being my first go, I won't post photos of my bird poop on here. But after an hour of practice it began to take shape. 
Mig and stick have their place, but I love the tig to bits.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Out of position welding is the most important thing to master. 
> Not everything is on a bench and sometimes you just can't position yourself ideally so one must be adaptable

  Most of my welding is out of position..... :Unsure:  
I don't often do long straight seams though, mostly tacking stuff together or round bits or weird stuff...    :Smilie:

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## ringtail

> Most of my welding is out of position....

  As long as you can still reach ya beer your position is good  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> Now you're talking! 
> I bought a tiny little scratch tig inverter first and was hooked! 
> I've now gone and bought a "bosswell" 200amp hf ac/dc from eBay and, for what I do, it's the ants pants. 
> Made up some aluminium racks for the maintenance ute last week. Aluminium is a pr!ck to weld so, being my first go, I won't post photos of my bird poop on here. But after an hour of practice it began to take shape. 
> Mig and stick have their place, but I love the tig to bits.

  Practice, practice, practice and clean, clean, clean. Then clean some more. I've done the tig course at college but didn't go on to the advanced modules. Well worth doing though. I'll definitely go back and get another ticket in tig

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## PlatypusGardens

> As long as you can still reach ya beer your position is good

  
Haha yeh that's never an issue.  
On the other hand I often find myself in the situation of having worked out where something needs to go, and as I'm holding  the pieces with one hand I can never reach any clamps or marking pens/chalk or whatever I need at the time.   :Sigh:

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## ringtail

Mark by memory. Tack and check  :Biggrin:

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