# Forum Home Renovation Tools & Products  New House --  New Tools

## fredgassit

Could anyone recommend a quality framing hammer (can't afford a nail gun)? 
Also, as the house will be Hardiplank and the usual wood-frame, what top-quality paint brushes and rollers ( the Yanks seem particularly fond of the Purdy brand) should be bought for use indoors and outdoors? 
Thanks for any suggestions.

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## CraigandKate

I like my 20oz Eastwing for framing hammer, with the blue grip. Sorry can't help on the paintbrushes but will be interested to hear opinions also.

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## sol381

+1.. 20oz estwing...my painter swears by the purdy brushes.. I've found monarch from bunnings are quite good as well..

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## r3nov8or

How big is this project? A decent gun would be a small percentage of an overall whole house budget, and will speed your build significantly. 
(so would pre-fabbing your frames, for that matter  :Smilie:  )

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## fredgassit

Thanks Craigandkate  and sol381; I'll take your recommendation. 
How big is this project? The house would be about 25 squares max, but I'm on a tight-as-the-proverbial budget.  A nail gun + compressor would be well over a thousand dollars.

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## phild01

> Thanks Craigandkate  and sol381; I'll take your recommendation. 
> How big is this project? The house would be about 25 squares max, but I'm on a tight-as-the-proverbial budget.  A nail gun + compressor would be well over a thousand dollars.

  Forget the expensive hammer, buy a $10 hammer and go with something like this:  Ryobi Airwave Clipped Head Air Framing Nailer I/N 6210568 | Bunnings Warehouse 
and get this https://sydneytools.com.au/ferrua-fc...air-compressor   
A cheap nail gun will get you through the work and will be with warranty. That compressor is a nice cheap unit as well.
Have seen copies of the Estwing for $20.

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## r3nov8or

> Forget the expensive hammer, buy a $10 hammer and go with something like this:  Ryobi Airwave Clipped Head Air Framing Nailer I/N 6210568 | Bunnings Warehouse 
> and get this https://sydneytools.com.au/ferrua-fc...air-compressor   
> A cheap nail gun will get you through the work and will be with warranty. That compressor is a nice cheap unit as well.
> Have seen copies of the Estwing for $20.

   $230, well done phil. You can also get a pasload gas gun copy for less than double that. And once the job's done you could sell either of these options for more than half the cost. But I bet you'd keep them!  :Smilie:

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## RodEye

A good quality hammer is likely to last a lifetime. Estwing 24oz rocket head claw hammer has never let me down.

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## Aaron1973

> +1.. 20oz estwing...my painter swears by the purdy brushes.. I've found monarch from bunnings are quite good as well..

   +1 for Monarch ( blue brushes ) from Bunnings. I've just finished re-weatherboarded my house & used the monarch brushes without a hiccup.

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## paddyjoy

Other option is you can precut all your studs/noggins/plates and then hire a gas framer for a week/weekend, if you are super organised and know what you are doing you should be able to pull it off.

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## Aaron1973

I bought a paslode gas framing nailer & as a one person renovator, it has been my best purchase in tooling. People find paslodes temperamental, but they just need to be kept clean & are easy to overhaul.

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## Aaron1973

> Other option is you can precut all your studs/noggins/plates and then hire a gas framer for a week/weekend, if you are super organised and know what you are doing you should be able to pull it off.

  I don't know where you are in Sydney, but I'm in the hills district & would be quite happy to lend you my paslode for a weekend/week if you get stuck.

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## METRIX

Don't buy a $10 hammer they are rubbish, a decent hammer can be picked up for not a lot, it will last forever and is a pleasure to use eg: Estwing.
I swear by Estwing, have used them for 20 years and never let me down, I still have my Dad's one which must be 50 years old, leather handle still works fine. 
I currently have the Black Ultra Series, these are a great hammer.  
Also 24L compressor is too small for a framer, you need a 50L, or the compressor is constantly cutting in and out, you will wear the compressor out in no time.

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## phild01

When on a budget, if it means sacrificing an expensive hammer for a nail gun, I would not hesitate.  The nail gun will give a better job in far quicker time.

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## METRIX

> Thanks Craigandkate  and sol381; I'll take your recommendation. 
> How big is this project? The house would be about 25 squares max, but I'm on a tight-as-the-proverbial budget.  A nail gun + compressor would be well over a thousand dollars.

  You can pickup brand new Paslode framers for under $500 delivered, These guns work, and they work well, plus no air tube dragging behind you, when finished sell it for a few hundred.

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## METRIX

> When on a budget, if it means sacrificing an expensive hammer for a nail gun, I would not hesitate.  The nail gun will give a better job in far quicker time.

  Hammers not only hammer in nails, but they also hits chisels, remove bent nails, demolish old stuff, straighten stuff, bend stuff, and a thousand other uses, a Nailgun only fires nails, a good hammer is indispensable, and a good quality one is worth it as it won't break when put under pressure. 
You can pickup an American made Estwing for $55 at the green shed, or the same one for around $35 if you know where to look, can't be on that tight a budget, surely.

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## fredgassit

Wow!   Think I'll have to do some rethinking after reading all these suggestions.  
I must admit, after watching nail guns in action on This Old House, they look like they could save a lot of time.  Maybe I'll get both! 
Thanks everyone!

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## Blu_Rock

+1 for Monarch brushes, good product and value for money

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## phild01

> Don't buy a $10 hammer they are rubbish, a decent hammer can be picked up for not a lot, it will last forever and is a pleasure to use eg: Estwing.  
> Also 24L compressor is too small for a framer, you need a 50L, or the compressor is constantly cutting in and out, you will wear the compressor out in no time.

  My Estwing only comes out when things get tough (hardly much) and prefer using the cheapie for general work...possibly because the Estwing has a crap leather grip that fell apart.
The small compressor is my choice for ease of mobility.  It cycles but not constantly.  It will do a house and at that price a disposable item. This one is the best cheapie I have had.

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## r3nov8or

> You can pickup brand new Paslode framers for under $500 delivered,...

  Sub-$AUD500 delivered? Link?

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## fredgassit

Please...

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## METRIX

> Sub-$AUD500 delivered? Link?

  Brand NEW Paslode 902600 CF325 Lithium LI ION Framing Nailer Nail GUN Skin | eBay
Just noticed it's only the  gun, no charger or battery 
For 617 everything delivered. NEW Paslode 902600 CF325 Lithium LI ION Framing Nailer Nail GUN KIT | eBay 
But you could probably get Bunnings to match / beat the price of $589 online not including delivery if they use the old that's not delivered price thing.  PASLODE FRAMING NAILER GUN CF-325 CF-325LI 902600 - Power Tools Online, Buy Cordless Hammer Drills, Cordless Power Tools | Melbourne Tool Sales

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## fredgassit

Thanks for that.

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## Marc

i agree that a good quality hammer is better than an el cheapo, but I do have a question. 
How can a hammer possibly "let you down"?

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## paddyjoy

> How can a hammer possibly "let you down"?

  Easy, last weekend mine let me down and hit the wrong nail  :Tongue:

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## phild01

:Arrow Up:  funny one paddy  :Doh2:  :Thumb Yello:

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## justonething

> Easy, last weekend mine let me down and hit the wrong nail

  You'll have to get one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErH1Fi4Czug. It doesn't hurt as much hit the wrong nail.

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## METRIX

> Easy, last weekend mine let me down and hit the wrong nail

  User error I assume ?  :Biggrin:

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## Marc

Ha ha, sure, but in that case you let the hammer down on your finger, the hammer did not let you done, it still struck regardless of the finger as intermediate target... you are better off pulling that fingernail off by the way. 
A hammer letting you down would be for example if the handle broke, or one of the claws broke off or the surface of the hammer chips or similar rather unusual occurrences. 
I must say that up to mm ... some 20 years ago may be more, all I used was hammers. today I don't even know where my hammer is ... well I do but hardly ever use it.  
The scariest accident with hammers happened when I was banging with a claw hammer on a "special" punch I had made out of a part from a machine that makes wire fencing material. The part is the end of a conduit where the wire is fed through, this part is like a sort of water jet, some 15mm thick and 200 long with a very hard tip. Steel was probably tool steel so very hard. What I did not do was annealing one end so as I was using it as a punch to punch nails in, the other end flattened very little and eventually let off a flat bit of steel at high speed, not unlike a fish scale that went through the shirt and straight into my arm deep enough to disappear from sight. It was a task to dig out and don't want to know what it would have done on my uncovered face

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## METRIX

The hammer will only hit what the user has directed it to hit, can't blame the hammer for hitting the finger it doesn't have a mind of it's own  :Biggrin:   :Doh:   :Biggrin:

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## Nostaw

> Could anyone recommend a quality framing hammer (can't afford a nail gun)? 
> Thanks for any suggestions.

  Buy a decent hammer for $20, because you will need one. As for not getting a framing gun - there is no question if you are building a house.. 
I put off buying a framing gun for years because I was penny foolish - now I look back on all the useless fritzing about I did on all those jobs. Its not just the saving on musclepower - there are heaps of jobs where you need fastening where you cant swing the hammer.  While you are at it - get a gun for trim as well. This will save on those unsightly hammer marks all over your trim.  
Skimping on what is relatively small expense for a better result is false economy. For example - every day you save on the move in date is rent or mortgage payment.  Every 2 hours a day extra productivity is  over 400 hours a year. 
Dont forget - once the house is finished ( in twenty years  :Biggrin:  ) there is still the resale of the gun(s) to look forward to.

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## fredgassit

Nostow, Metrix et al, 
I'm convinced!   
No beer or wine for a couple of months means I can afford a framing gun.  And if it doesn't perform up to expectations, I'll buy a framing hammer and smash it!

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## phild01

You won't regret it :Smilie:

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## wpeter5401

Good work all - paslode nail gun and an Estwing.
For painting hardiplank go with rollers - long nap on featured surface is much faster than brushing. Even with flat hardiplank, a long nap will get closer to the corners meaning less cutting in. Not sure of the brands, but go with a reasonable quality. Cheap brushes might be easier to throw away than clean, but are annoying to use if the paint doesn't flow well off them.

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## doofus

> Brand NEW Paslode 902600 CF325 Lithium LI ION Framing Nailer Nail GUN Skin | eBay
> Just noticed it's only the  gun, no charger or battery 
> For 617 everything delivered. NEW Paslode 902600 CF325 Lithium LI ION Framing Nailer Nail GUN KIT | eBay 
> But you could probably get Bunnings to match / beat the price of $589 online not including delivery if they use the old that's not delivered price thing.  PASLODE FRAMING NAILER GUN CF-325 CF-325LI 902600 - Power Tools Online, Buy Cordless Hammer Drills, Cordless Power Tools | Melbourne Tool Sales

  you want two batteries as well (one on charge, one in use). you wont get that for under 600 bucks. Go the the estwing as well. they have excellent "balance" . this is important if you intend to swing it all day. your wrist and shoulder will thank you.

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## phild01

> you want two batteries as well (one on charge, one in use). you wont get that for under 600 bucks. Go the the estwing as well. they have excellent "balance" . this is important if you intend to swing it all day. your wrist and shoulder will thank you.

  Once you have the nailer, what hammer you get will be incidental due to lack of use. 
I'd still go with the air setup I suggested as it will be so much cheaper and you can get the extra guns (coil, brad etc) at moderate cost.  If I was a tradie using this stuff every day I would certainly go airless though.

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## METRIX

> you want two batteries as well (one on charge, one in use). you wont get that for under 600 bucks. Go the the estwing as well. they have excellent "balance" . this is important if you intend to swing it all day. your wrist and shoulder will thank you.

  Two batteries are not necessary, if it goes flat, the charger will get the battery charged up enough in two minutes to fire another 200 shots, for an occasional user this feature makes a 2nd battery un-necessary.

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## ringtail

Compressor all day long. The guns are cheaper and IMHO better quality and certainly more reliable and powerful. Then you can also run other guns that you will need. Coil and fix out guns and maybe even a T nailer. Then you can also run other air tools, blow guns, rattle guns and even pump up the car tyres. Air hoses are no big deal at all. There are much bigger things to worry about that an air hose. I hope the OP has his budget absolutely nailed ( pun intended) as $1000 blow out in a renno or new build is just chicken feed. It can, does and will happen at some point

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## Nostaw

Air has certainly got a lot going for it, but the hose and noise and needing a 15amp power point for the compressor are big considerations. The ability to just pick up a Paslode, walk two rooms up and fire it a few times is great. I have only ever done renovations, so maybe its different for bulk walls. The trick would be to talk to some local builders and see what they prefer.. 
oh PS - Paslodes come with two batteries as standard based on my experience.

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## r3nov8or

> ... The ability to just pick up a Paslode, walk two rooms up and fire it a few times is great....

  +1

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## phild01

> Air has certainly got a lot going for it, but the hose and noise and needing a 15amp power point for the compressor

  The one I mentioned and others don't need a 15A power outlet but should not be used with extension cords.  Noise generally of no concern.  Things need to be put in perspective as OP is referring to a one-off project.

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## r3nov8or

> The one I mentioned and others don't need a 15A power outlet but should not be used with extension cords.  Noise generally of no concern.  Things need to be put in perspective as OP is referring to a one-off project.

  He's building his own home. There will *always* be "another" (sub)project  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> He's building his own home. There will *always* be "another" (sub)project

  Bound to be :Biggrin:

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## fredgassit

r3nov8or and phild01, 
I'm preparing a list right now....

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## Marc

> Compressor all day long. The guns are cheaper and IMHO better quality and certainly more reliable and powerful. Then you can also run other guns that you will need. Coil and fix out guns and maybe even a T nailer. Then you can also run other air tools, blow guns, rattle guns and even pump up the car tyres. Air hoses are no big deal at all. There are much bigger things to worry about that an air hose. I hope the OP has his budget absolutely nailed ( pun intended) as $1000 blow out in a renno or new build is just chicken feed. It can, does and will happen at some point

   :What he said: 
15amp compressor for a nailgun? you can run a 2.5HP (3 Chinese HP) 100 L tank on a 10 amp powerpoint. NOISE? WHAT NOISE? ...  :Smilie:  buy a belt driven not a direct drive. Hose are cheap and you can add one after the other and run 100m of hose without any problem.  I do all the time.
Last but not least, buy yourself a Palm Nailer.
Oh ... and don't forget to budget to buy that hammer!

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## ringtail

> Air has certainly got a lot going for it, but the hose and noise and needing a 15amp power point for the compressor are big considerations. The ability to just pick up a Paslode, walk two rooms up and fire it a few times is great. I have only ever done renovations, so maybe its different for bulk walls. The trick would be to talk to some local builders and see what they prefer.. 
> oh PS - Paslodes come with two batteries as standard based on my experience.

  
no need for 15 amp circuit. My big belt drive only has a ten amp plug and 99% of them are the same. Of the millions of compressors in the backs of utes not one of them requires a 15 amp circuit. I don't know one framing carpenter that uses a paslode gun. Too slow and unreliable. I have seen plenty of them thrown from a great height though.  :Tongue:  They all use air ( paslode make air guns too and they are awesome) Renno work is different as the needs are different. Still, I'm yet to see a gas gun sink a nail into 50 year old hardwood properly.

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## r3nov8or

> ... I don't know one framing carpenter that uses a paslode gun.  ...

  That's because 99% of frames are prefabbed in factories. There have been 8 units constructed in my street in the past 4 years and all carpenters have used gas guns, assembling prefabbed frames etc. In fact I don't think I've heard a compressor in years. (Except when I'm pumping up tyres myself).  
I also prefer a new box of nails to weigh more than the equipment it takes to use them  :Tongue:

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## jimfish

Air all the way for me too . We have several gas guns and battery driven bradders but they just don't have the punch of a pneumatic gun in my opinion. The gas guns certainly have their uses but if I was owner building I would buy air

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## METRIX

In the city Paslode Gas guns are the norm, when you move to the housing estates compressors are the norm. 
Having a compressor and dragging a tube all over and in the roof of a reno is a pain in the bumper, if it's just sticks of timber it's a lot easier

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## ringtail

> In the city Paslode Gas guns are the norm, when you move to the housing estates compressors are the norm. 
> Having a compressor and dragging a tube all over and in the roof of a reno is a pain in the bumper, if it's just sticks of timber it's a lot easier

  That's true Metrix, the housing estate bit anyway  :Tongue:

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## ringtail

> That's because 99% of frames are prefabbed in factories. There have been 8 units constructed in my street in the past 4 years and all carpenters have used gas guns, assembling prefabbed frames etc. In fact I don't think I've heard a compressor in years. (Except when I'm pumping up tyres myself).

  More like 99% of frames in Victoria are dodgy. Only 60 % dodgy up here. What do fencing contractors use down there ? Wouldn't be a compressor driven coil gun by chance would it ?

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## r3nov8or

> More like 99% of frames in Victoria are dodgy. Only 60 % dodgy up here. What do fencing contractors use down there ? Wouldn't be a compressor driven coil gun by chance would it ?

  A hammer

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## METRIX

> More like 99% of frames in Victoria are dodgy. Only 60 % dodgy up here. What do fencing contractors use down there ? Wouldn't be a compressor driven coil gun by chance would it ?

  Compressor here for fences, Although I did see someone using a Paslode Gas gun, all I could think was, WHY

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## jimfish

> Compressor here for fences, Although I did see someone using a Paslode Gas gun, all I could think was, WHY

  Expensive way to fence

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## r3nov8or

I'm wondering why we are discussing fencing. This is a framing thread

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## jimfish

Thread is about a framing hammer so I guess we shouldn't be talking nail guns at all

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## r3nov8or

True. But hammers are so boring  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Thread is about a framing hammer so I guess we shouldn't be talking nail guns at all

  The OP mentioned a hammer in the belief that a nail gun was going to be un-affordable, so nail gun discussion is surely relevant.

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## ringtail

Anyone fired a shot with one of these ? I'm yet to see one on site  Makita Li-Ion Cordless Gas Framing Nail Gun With 2 Batteries I/N 6240200 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## METRIX

> Anyone fired a shot with one of these ? I'm yet to see one on site  Makita Li-Ion Cordless Gas Framing Nail Gun With 2 Batteries I/N 6240200 | Bunnings Warehouse

  No, but it's probably similar to Hitachi's.  http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-NR90GR.../dp/B000EPQO88

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## r3nov8or

Makita gas fits in a Paslode and vice versa, guessing the same for Hitachi too, and nails are nails these days. Pick a colour.

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## ringtail

Hitachi gun seems pretty well priced. If it were old school Hitachi it might be worth a look. Going to take a long time or massive price difference to draw potential purchasers away from Paslode. Better the devil you know ?

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## travelislife

Reviving a thread, but can someone explain to me the difference between the Paslode cf325li vs b20543 framing nailers?

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## METRIX

> Reviving a thread, but can someone explain to me the difference between the Paslode cf325li vs b20543 framing nailers?

  Same Gun, B20543 is the Australian Model, the other is US model.

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## travelislife

> Same Gun, B20543 is the Australian Model, the other is US model.

  Ah ok, and of course the US one is like 60% of the price of the Australian one! Anyone want to bring me one back from the states? haha.

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## Marc

Why? You can buy on line. Choose a seller willing to post at a reasonable price or use a fright forwarder

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## joynz

Though I wonder how you would go if you need a repair under warranty?

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## Marc

When you buy overseas you forfeit that unless the manufacturer has a global warranty system. I buy O/S if the price is half the price here, otherwise the postage and lack of warranty makes it not viable.

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## Marc

> True. But hammers are so boring

   Jack hammers are more fun  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> Ah ok, and of course the US one is like 60% of the price of the Australian one! Anyone want to bring me one back from the states? haha.

  Yes, but our dollar is only worth 73c compared to the US, so it's fairly on the ball.

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## travelislife

> Yes, but our dollar is only worth 73c compared to the US, so it's fairly on the ball.

  Not at all. From my research they can be picked up for USD$300 in the states. Which is approx AUD$425 today. They retail for $700 in Australia. So like I was saying 60% of the cost in the states. When it was parity it would have been 40% of the cost! So somewhere someone is picking up a massive margin!

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## METRIX

> Not at all. From my research they can be picked up for USD$300 in the states. Which is approx AUD$425 today. They retail for $700 in Australia. So like I was saying 60% of the cost in the states. When it was parity it would have been 40% of the cost! So somewhere someone is picking up a massive margin!

  It's down to supply / demand and AUS always getting ripped off, 320 million population, vs 23 million of course we are not going to get good deals on these sorts of things considering they are made in the US.
Plus distributors want to always get a large cut on anything out here. 
Simply. just order one from the US, I found one brand new shipped to AU $559.

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## Nostaw

> Not at all. From my research they can be picked up for USD$300 in the states. Which is approx AUD$425 today. They retail for $700 in Australia. So like I was saying 60% of the cost in the states. When it was parity it would have been 40% of the cost! So somewhere someone is picking up a massive margin!

  Yeah but, what is the freight and duty on that.?  How about a web site for reference. Oh, and make sure its the latest model, not a year or so old.

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## Marc

Buying almost anything in the US is cheaper.
Yet it does not work like ... give me a link and I click on it and get it delivered on my doorstep cheaper.
It does require a bit of lateral thinking, research, luck and compromise. 
I tried almost everything, from properties, machinery, stock down to power tools and hand tools and useless knick knack. 
The exchange rate plays some role, but mostly who you buy from, what brand, who is your freight forwarder, who do they use for shipping and many other factors relevant to what you are buying. If you import earthmoving equipment and the seller send is dirty, you can blow your profit for example. Your clean boat may be "inspected" by a mob with dirty and greasy boots that will wipe their boots on your carpet and take a dump in your toilet. The cleaning mob may scrape the dirt of an electrical harness so hard as to peel off the insulation leaving you with thousands of dollars worth of damage. And I can go on and on.
Still buying in the US most of the time is worth your while.

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