# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Light fitting - ANE, existing batten has another neutral cable in loop

## simopimo

I wanted to check my existing bathroom light fitting to ensure I buy a replacement that suits.  Of course I'll get my sparky to wire it up, but I'd hate to get the wrong fitting prior and waste his time. 
The existing fitting has 2 x active wires, 2 x neutral wires and 2 x earth wires.  All pretty standard stuff, as it would presumably be providing power to the nearby ceiling vent which is on its own switch. 
However in the batten, there's a single black wire that is in the loop socket on the batten, but it's on its own.   
I just wanted to check that the sparky would be able to use a standard new fitting (I was going to get a Philips bathroom-rated oyster light).  Having seen these at Masters, I know that the standard light fittings that I'm looking at don't have a loop hole/screw.  So I'm assuming it'd be OK for the sparky to wire it up and he'd just put the lonesome black wire in a BP connector and terminate it that way. 
Being a Saturday I need to buy the light today but the sparky that I have used for my reno's was organised via the builder who I can't get in contact with at the moment.  So my question is, could the lonesome black wire that's in the old batten's loop socket be simply terminated with a BP connector, therefore allowing me to procure a standard ANE type of light fitting?  I just don't want to go through the hassle of getting a whole new fitting then find it's unsuitable. 
PS I won't be doing the installation myself, I'll have the sparky do it, but I'm in an old house and I want to get the right light fitting!

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## Brian7886

how old is the wiring? I've come across plenty of times cables that are black being used as Actives.  
Not denying you know what you are saying, are you sure that the single cable is in fact in the Loop terminal and not the active terminal.  
Not looking at it, I would get the impression that the 2 actives together are a perminent active, the 2 neutrals the neutrals and the cable on its own being the switched active? have you metered this cable to ensure it is a Neutral? Dont always assume that it is what it seems, who knows what people used to do lol

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## simopimo

Hi Brian, 
Thanks for the response. The wiring in this part of the house is about 17 years old, as it was an add-on. And from looking at the insulation, it's all done in 2.5mm TPS. The wires leading to the switch are 1.5mm. So it looks like it's been put together to current standards. 
You could very well be right in saying that the black going nowhere is active but all the other wiring that we've seen in the add-on part of the house has been up to standard so far and there's been no incorrect wiring discovered when the kitchen was pulled apart. Of course this could be a first which is why I wasn't planning on doing this myself, but I just want to ensure that a standard fitting would work here. 
So I haven't run a meter across it yet... will do so. It just seems odd that there's a single black terminating on the fitting. But I will double check and get a pic of it to ensure that it's not wired up the way you've said... 
Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk HD

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## Whitey66

They used to use red and black twin before they used red and white.
Red should always be the active wire and white (or black in old wiring) should be the switched active as Brian said.
The 2 actives should be in the loop terminal,if they were in the active, the light would be on all the time.

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## simopimo

Will get a photo and post it tomorrow. 
Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk HD

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## Brian7886

Please get a picture if you can. And if possible, take the light switch off the wall and check it. Tell me what colour wiring is in the switch.  
Its odd you dont have a white at the light fitting, but as said above, not uncommon to find black as your s/active.

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## simopimo

Here's the pics! 
The light switch has 2 red going to common and 1 black going to 1.  There's another switch next to it, for the ceiling vent fan.   
I'm glad I took photos, because the room is quite dark with the circuit off.  There's actually 3 reds going into the fitting, 3 earths and 3 neutrals - not 2 as a previously thought (hey, it was dark...).  You can see from the labelling on the fitting that I was mistaken, it looks like the 3 reds are actually in the loop connection (I think - see the second photo along, I can't tell if the label "Loop" is for the black cable on its own or the 3 reds together. 
From the fifth photo, you can see that one of the 3 reds is in the same pair as the black that's on its own, and one of the reds coming in goes to a terminal connector with a white. 
Weird, no?  I am guessing that the ceiling vent fan comes off this (which has its switch next to the light switch) along with some other lights as well...

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## Brian7886

At the light 
Loop has 2 actives in it mate. They are your permanent active wires. 
The 2 blacks are an active (switched) and a neutral). Earth is self explanatory.  
At the switch.  
Your 2 reds in common are permanent actives, the reason there will be 2 in there is because you will find 1 comes from the ceiling, and 1 probably links into the common terminal on another switch.  
The black in the 1 terminal is switched active wire, which goes back up to the light terminal.  
Batten fittings like that dont label active and neutral, as any light you fit isnt polar specific (a-n). As they light up as power runs through, regardless of direction.  
To test which wire in your fitting is active and which is neutral you could do 1 of 2 ways.  
Test from the permanent actives to 1 of the blacks with a meter on V AC. If you get 240V or there abouts between the reds and the black, its your neutral. If you get a zero or similar, they are both actives. The meter tests the difference in potential between them. OR. Turn your power off, put the meter on Ohms and test the black wire at the light, to the black wire at the switch. If you get a circuit, its your active. Do this with NO GLOBE in the fitting.  
You will need to know which wire is active and which is neutral when you wire a new fitting. If it runs a transformer or something, it will need to have the right polarity

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## Brian7886

although common sense would tell you your black that comes from the twin wire (red and black only) is the active wire. The 1 on its own mate. But if you wanna test anything, youd do it as above

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## simopimo

Thank you so much for your help Brian, 
It looks like I will be able to use a standard modern light fitting then, it's just a matter of determining the neutrals and actives. You've given me plenty of information to help determine which is which, so I will test accordingly. 
Thanks again.

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