# Forum Home Renovation Paving  Paving- the dodgy way

## JDub

I am about to pave a relatively small area near my back shed/workshop to stop the dog/kids/wife tracking in the dirt (its never me :Wink:  ). 
The area is only around 10-12sqm and I am paving with cheapish second hand 200x200 pavers. This is only to be a relatively temporary area (read 5-7 years) until the garage goes up. 
The area will get foot traffic only.   
Should I bother with a compacted subase?  Can I just use a bedding layer and be done with it or am I asking for trouble and being lazy?    
I want to do a reasonable job but dont want it to be a royal PITA and hard to pull up in 5 years time (considering it only for an area near the shed). 
Advice from those wiser than me is appreciated....... :Cool:   
Joel

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## silentC

It really depends what the ground underneath is like... 
The following is not how I would do it for myself, but is an example of what you can get away with if the bloke you are working for is a tightasre: 
I've done a couple of jobs where we just screeded a thin bed of sand directly over the ground (after levelling it out), threw the pavers down and broomed in some more sand. I even worked on one where we laid the pavers directly on the ground and broomed in the sand. Seemed to work OK but it was very 'rustic' and moved a bit over time. 
If it's only temporary, it doesn't really matter, does it?

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## Ramus

I did a similar small area job recently under a pool pergola. Due to the small area, and tight angles, compaction of the bed was not really an option so I simply laid the pavers over a level bed of crusher dust, did my edging and once this was dry swept in a sand/cement mix. When lightly sprayed off the cement sets and gives a very solid/tight result, with the added bonus of being more ant proof.

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## Grunt

I think the nature of things is that the temporary solution tend not to be that temporary. 7 years is the average time that people own a house for.  
I would do the job properly. It isn't that much extra work and renting a compactor isn't that exe.

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## robri

I tend to agree with Grunt. The foundations will help when the garage goes up anyway - it will need to have compacted foundations to ensure that slab doesn't crack. It is a task but as I have found it is worth doing it properly the first time.
If the foundations aren't right the first time it will move and you will be tempted to renew it anyway.

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## reybec

i did a dodgy one a couple of years ago
scraped the ground reasonably level
had a bag of sand for the ones that didn't sit right(there wasn't many)
came up a treat.i then put a carport over it & parked 2 cars on it for a couple of years till we moved.
the only pavers that seemed to move were the ones with sand underneath.

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## wombat47

I've brick paved a few doorway entrances in my time, without compacting, sand, etc., and they have held up.  I've just excavated the plot and used loose earth to fill in where necessary.  Sand & cement mix swept into the joins and lightly watered in seals the joins and cuts down considerably on weed growth. 
You are already working on a settled, probably compacted, area.  When you are removing the soil, don't dig down into it by using a maddock or similar.  Use a spade held fairly horizontally to scrape off the excess depth.  A piece of tin nailed to a bit of timber works a treat to level off the dirt.  The process is much easier if the soil is damp.  And remove any stones that are on the surface.

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## simon c

A few things to consider:
How wet does the area get? If the soil is heavily compacted and has uncompacted sand on top, then if the sand gets water saturated it can cause real problems with the pavers. However, if the area is dry or the soil is well drained then that will be less of a problem.
Doing the edging right is probably more important than doing the middle area as this will provide structure.
Do you have the pavers already? 200x100 pavers laid in a herringbone pattern will naturally interlock from the pattern which won't happen with square pavers. It is also much less forgiving on any later movement because there are no straight lines that will emphasise the movement. Howver, it may create more work as you will have to cut pavers.

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## JDub

> I've brick paved a few doorway entrances in my time, without compacting, sand, etc., and they have held up. I've just excavated the plot and used loose earth to fill in where necessary. Sand & cement mix swept into the joins and lightly watered in seals the joins and cuts down considerably on weed growth. 
> You are already working on a settled, probably compacted, area. When you are removing the soil, don't dig down into it by using a maddock or similar. Use a spade held fairly horizontally to scrape off the excess depth. A piece of tin nailed to a bit of timber works a treat to level off the dirt. The process is much easier if the soil is damp. And remove any stones that are on the surface.

  Cheers, 
What are the ratios of sand to cement used?

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## JDub

> A few things to consider:
> How wet does the area get? If the soil is heavily compacted and has uncompacted sand on top, then if the sand gets water saturated it can cause real problems with the pavers. However, if the area is dry or the soil is well drained then that will be less of a problem.
> Doing the edging right is probably more important than doing the middle area as this will provide structure.
> Do you have the pavers already? 200x100 pavers laid in a herringbone pattern will naturally interlock from the pattern which won't happen with square pavers. .

  Area is in a damper area, its not wet but doesnt get much sun.
Sounds as though sand may not be the best idea. I am not going to use a sub base so may just take of the top layer of soil and lay direct onto that (sml amount of sand if necessary to get the level) with sand/cement mix swept in after. 
The edging shouldnt be an issue as the area is between a brick wall and a shed so it should lock in nicely. 
Already have the pavers, got them cheap out of the paper (200x200) 
Thanks for all the advice so far fellas :Biggrin:

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## JDub

Last question  :Wink:   
What is the best mix of sand and cement to use to sweep in after completion of laying?

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## Simomatra

> Last question   
>  What is the best mix of sand and cement to use to sweep in after completion of laying?

   I should think it would be as easy to buy some special gap sand and broom that in worked for me far better than the normal mix of sand and cement
 Sam[img]images/icons/icon10.gif[/img][img]images/icons/icon10.gif[/img]

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## wombat47

Haven't used the gap sand referred to but it sounds pretty good.  And probably easier to use - you have to be diligent in sweeping off the sand/cement mix prior to watering in or you will get cement stains on the surface. 
Both gap sand and sand/cement mix are available in bags (and I've only used the bagged mix).  Toddle off to the local hardware and check out the labelling.

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## JDub

Thanks all job is done...... I dont think I will ever walk upright again though.  2 days of paving is a killer on the ol hamstrings!:eek:  
Ended up taking off the top layer of soil, putting down a layer of sand and laying on that.  Didnt bother with the cement in the sand for sweeping in after. 
The job is locked between a shed and a wall so there is very little room for movement. 
Cheers
Joel

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