# Forum Home Renovation Tiling  Tiling bathroom, what sheets where?

## Duff5000

Hi all, first post! (long time stalker, non professional DIY'er) 
BACKGROUND:
I am doing up a room at our house. It was previously a garage that had been turned into part of the house before we bought it. The plan is to make it into a bedroom with en-suite and spa with shower over. 
The attached pic titled "area" show what i am working with. (the grey is wardrobe space i am putting in). 
I ended up stripping the room right back to the brickwork, lifting the roof (it was only 220cm high) and framing in all the walls again. 
Now to what i am trying to do now. pic "plan" shows the area i am making into a spa area. 
The floor is slab concrete with lino.
The area above the spa on the plan is a raised step area.
The plan is for this whole area including floor, walls and tub surround to be tiled. 
QUESTIONS:
I am making the tub deck out of ply, tile underlay on top, then coated in membrane. Does this sound right? same underlay from the floor would be fine here wouldn't it? 
The walls around this tub area, 4.5mm? durasheet and hardiflex at bunnings would this do? Could i use the same 6mm tile underlay as the floor? 
Would this do for tile underlay? Ceramic Tile Underlay - 1.8 x 900 x 6mm - 1 sheet | eBay 
As you can see in the plan i have a small section of tub surround that is rounded. Should i use 2 layers of 4.5mm bent around a heap of short studs to do this? (i am going to mosaic or pebble around the front of the spa.)   
Thanks in advance for any ideas/ suggestions. 
Neil.

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## scottyb

Hi Neil,  
I would use the 6mm underlay or just villaboard sheet (6.5mm) for the wall and floor tile surfaces. You may save on joins by using villaboard as sheets are bigger. 
Depending on the radius of your tub you may have to use the 4.5mm board to fit around the curve and, as you said, use several short studs and plenty of fixings to support this.  You can glue the 4.5mm sheets together at the same time with Fulaprene 303 which is a great adhesive/sealant for FC sheets. Don't forget to work out your pump location and access before framing up, pump outside on an external wall is good for noise.

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## Oldsaltoz

Tile underlay will be fine for the floor, just make sure you use lots of nails around the edges. 
Wall should all be Villaboard (WR rated). 
Any through floor fittings will need to be sealed, any floor waste will need a puddle flange mounted flush or below floor level. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Duff5000

Thanks for getting back to me. 
The pump: 
I am either going to mount it outside, next to the water heater, or under the tub. If i go the under tub option i will put a access panel in the brick wall from outside. I was going to foam spray the tub, not sure how much that will help with noise from the pump if i have it under. 
Attaching the sheet to the floor:
The floor is a slab. How do i attach the sheet to that? About half the floor will be raised, That bit i  can nail/screw down into the ply. 
Board to use:
Am i correct that Villaboard is waterproof fibre cement sheet? If i have a heap of waterproofing membrane do i have to buy Villaboard or can i just get regular cement sheet and cover it in waterproofing membrane? 
If i should be using Villaboard for the walls around the tub (even with the waterproof membrane) i guess that would apply to the tub surround as well?  
Lastly, are the other brands/products that do the same job as Villa cheaper or is that pretty much it? 
Thanks for the replies, 
Neil.

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## Duff5000

> Any through floor fittings will need to be sealed, any floor waste will need a puddle flange mounted flush or below floor level.

  I thought about a floor waste. I could put one on the raised step area but i am not sure if it will be worth the effort. As the wife pointed out there will be a towel down there when the bath/shower are in use anyway. 
As it is i am not entirely sure how i am getting the waste from the spa out. The drain is the other side of the brick wall at the bottom of the plans. I dont want to raise the spa any more than i have to as i am quite tall an i dont want my head up near the roof. I guess i need to cut a square out of the slab for the trap under the spa, then a channel for the pipe to run out.  
I think i know someone that can come and give me a hand with that (a plumber) so i should be ok.

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## Oldsaltoz

> I thought about a floor waste. I could put one on the raised step area but i am not sure if it will be worth the effort.  If you mean on top of the spa step, don't bother, it will not get that much water on it anyway. 
>  As the wife pointed out there will be a towel down there when the bath/shower are in use anyway. 
> As it is i am not entirely sure how i am getting the waste from the spa out. The drain is the other side of the brick wall at the bottom of the plans. I don't want to raise the spa any more than i have to as i am quite tall an i don't want my head up near the roof. I guess i need to cut a square out of the slab for the trap under the spa, then a channel for the pipe to run out.   Most of the pipe will be under the spar so you might not have to cut the floor in the bathroom, just between the wall and drain in the next room. 
> I think i know someone that can come and give me a hand with that (a plumber) so i should be ok.

  Just noticed the spa looks to be an island mount, spar lip sitting on the sheeting, are you going to tile under the lip? regardless of this you will have waterproof under the bath lip to prevent water getting under the spa. This can be done by fixing a PVC angle either around the hole cut for the spa or under the bath lip. you will also have to waterproof the wall to spa top joint and about 1.50 m up the corner wall joint/s above the spa. 
The whole room should should also be waterproofed at the wall to floor interface and water stops installed at the door and storage cupboard. 
As for using ply with a layer of tile underlay, this not something I have ever seen in all my years in a bathroom, I suspect you have a bit laying around and thought you be able to use it. 
I would just use villaboard and maje the iner and outer edges wer well supported by the frame. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Duff5000

> Just noticed the spa looks to be an island mount, spar lip sitting on the sheeting, are you going to tile under the lip? regardless of this you will have waterproof under the bath lip to prevent water getting under the spa. This can be done by fixing a PVC angle either around the hole cut for the spa or under the bath lip. you will also have to waterproof the wall to spa top joint and about 1.50 m up the corner wall joint/s above the spa.

  Yep, the spa is above mount round spa. I plan to tile under it. Thats a good idea with the pvc edge on the inside under the spa edge. 
It looks like i will have to use that PVC edge on the front of the tub deck area as well. I will need to cover the cut edge of the tile but the metal trim doesnt seem to bend much.    

> As for using ply with a layer of tile underlay, this not something I have ever seen in all my years in a bathroom, I suspect you have a bit laying around and thought you be able to use it. 
> I would just use villaboard and maje the iner and outer edges wer well supported by the frame.

  I was planning to build the step section in-front of the spa the same way as the tub deck. That is, timber frame, ply over, cement sheet on top. That should be fine shouldnt it? 
I have attached a better image showing what i mean by the step area and some more labels. Makes it a bit clearer. The whole section in front of the spa will be one step up from ground level.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Yep, the spa is above mount round spa. I plan to tile under it. Thats a good idea with the pvc edge on the inside under the spa edge. 
> It looks like i will have to use that PVC edge on the front of the tub deck area as well. I will need to cover the cut edge of the tile but the metal trim doesn't seem to bend much.   This is why you don't see many round panels, have you considered panels that are the same width as your tiles? This will mean the top tile overlaps the edge of the vertical tile, no sharp edge and no trim required.  
> I was planning to build the step section in-front of the spa the same way as the tub deck. That is, timber frame, ply over, cement sheet on top. That should be fine shouldnt it?  As I said if you have the ply laying around fine, but a bit expensive and an overkill. 
> I have attached a better image showing what i mean by the step area and some more labels. Makes it a bit clearer. The whole section in front of the spa will be one step up from ground level.  According to WPH&Safety, steps on spars are considered to be a hazard based on the number of people injured by slipping and falling off them, they can look nice, but I would prefer to reduce the risk if injury and gain a bit more floor space.

  Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Duff5000

> This is why you don't see many round panels, have you considered panels that are the same width as your tiles? This will mean the top tile overlaps the edge of the vertical tile, no sharp edge and no trim required.

  That could work, but i think i would still need the edge. The tiles i have are ceramic and would really need the edge covered as it isnt finished the same as the top. I could at least cut metal tile edge sections for each segment of the curve if i did it that way.    

> According to WPH&Safety, steps on spars are considered to be a hazard based on the number of people injured by slipping and falling off them, they can look nice, but I would prefer to reduce the risk if injury and gain a bit more floor space.

  The bit i labled as "step area" should probably be named somethine else. A landing? platform? Not sure  :Confused:  It was intended to be an area raised next to the spa to make it easier to get in and out and to sit on if washing the kids in there.  I can see how steps would be dangerous, a raised area like this wouldnt really be dangerous would it?   

> As I said if you have the ply laying around fine, but a bit expensive and an overkill.

  If i do build it how would i do it without ply? If i can save some $$ I am happy to just not sure what i would have under the cement sheet if not ply.  
You said earlier you had never seem ply under cement sheet. Everything i have found on the net about building the spa area has cement sheet over ply. How else would i do it? 
This is the sort of thing i had found: Install Your Own Built-in Bathtub on Réno-Dépôt (click the 1-5 at the bottom) 
Sorry for all the questions.

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## Oldsaltoz

Quote:
If i do build it how would i do it without ply? If i can save some $$ I  am happy to just not sure what i would have under the cement sheet if  not ply.  
You said earlier you had never seem ply under cement sheet. Everything i  have found on the net about building the spa area has cement sheet over  ply. How else would i do it? 
This is the sort of thing i had found: Install Your Own Built-in Bathtub on Réno-Dépôt (click the 1-5 at the bottom)
 End Quote. 
The method shown on that site will not provide the support required for a spa unless it's very thick and expensive ply. In Oz we build the first frame fixed to the walls before sheeting the wall, much the same as shown, then build an inner frame to support the spa lip. 
By simply adding a cross timber at the required distance to support the spa lip on all sides, then add uprights as required and sheet the space between the frames with Villaboard. 
By the way adding a platform to the side will not make it easier to handle kids in the spa, it means you will have bend down even further to reach them. 
Hope this helps.  :Smilie:

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## Oldsaltoz

This will give you some idea, though the same shape but an Island Mount just the same.  Google Image Result for http://www.stormygirl.net/house/framing96thumb.jpg

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## Duff5000

Thanks for the help guys. 
Any suggestions how I attach the tile underlay to the floor? It is a slab with lino at the moment. 
I thought it would be easier to put tile underlay down over the lino than pull up the lino and clean the slab.  
I am going about it the wrong way?

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## Oldsaltoz

Tile underlay has to be very securely fixed, hence the very high number and small spacing between nails, if it moves so will your tiles. 
I'm not sure there is a way to secure the tile underlay to a concrete slab. 
Lifting the lono would save the cost and time involved is using underlay. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Duff5000

So i have mostly finished my tub surround, decided to go with miniorb around the front.  
Question: Is there any reason not to use tile underlay on the walls? I can get some left over from a job cheap but not sure how it differs from the normal wall sheet other than size. 
I will be tiling over it with 300x300 tiles. 
Thanks.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Question: Is there any reason not to use tile underlay on the walls? I can get some left over from a job cheap but not sure how it differs from the normal wall sheet other than size. 
> I will be tiling over it with 300x300 tiles. 
> Thanks.

  Depends, it is too thin to use on the walls as the primary sheet and it would have to be fully protected, waterproofed. 
Villaboard is or another WR rated sheet is needed on the walls, for strength and water resistance. 
How are you hoping to use it? 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Duff5000

I was thinking i could use it on the walls in my tub area (plan is a few posts up in this thread) They are 6mm thick sheets. 
Would there be any issue with 6mm tile underlay on a wall? I am not sure how tile underlay differs from villaboard. 
I already have 10L of Asa Dampfix Gold to waterproof the area. Whatever sheet i do end up using till be under 300mm sq. tiles. 
Edit: I cant find anything about anyone using it on a wall under tiles so i guess it is structurally different. Looks like i'll have to track down something else  :Smilie:

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