# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  MGP10 OR MGP12 Timber Stud Walls

## Teeps

Hi there, I was wondering the difference in MGP10 and MGP12  when constructing timber stud walls. I'm guessing MGP12 would be required for loadbearing walls? MGP10 non loadbearing? Reason I'm asking is I'm installing internal non loadbearing wall and am wanting to know which to use for plates/ studs/ nogs. Cheers

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## jimfish

Mgp10 is ok to use for all walls. Nogs can be merch

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## OBBob

MGP10 is pretty normal even for load bearing walls, obviously needs to be sized in accordance with (or exceed) the standards.

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## METRIX

MGP10 is the standard for all walls, load bearing or not. 
It's not the rating of the timber that makes the difference, but the amount of them used for a particular situation, ie if you have a large opening, you may need triple studs either side to support it.

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## phild01

Would I be right in saying that for an opening that the number of omitted studs seem to be what is needed as a split number at the ends?

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## sol381

Ive found that mgp10 is rubbish.. twisted, warped, cupped,, Mpg 12 is what most draftys or architects will state on plans due mainly to the fact that its a much better piece of wood..its not that much more expensive..mainly 12 exterior load bearing and 10 for interior.  sometimes at bunnings the idiots cant read and they put mgp12 in the mgp10 racks..

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## Teeps

So what is MGP12 actually used for? Thanks for the feedback!!!!!

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## METRIX

> Ive found that mgp10 is rubbish.. twisted, warped, cupped,, Mpg 12 is what most draftys or architects will state on plans due mainly to the fact that its a much better piece of wood..its not that much more expensive..mainly 12 exterior load bearing and 10 for interior.  sometimes at bunnings the idiots cant read and they put mgp12 in the mgp10 racks..

  Don't know where you get yours from, but down here MGP10 is straight, untwisted and uncuped, rare to find a rubbish piece.

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## METRIX

> So what is MGP12 actually used for? Thanks for the feedback!!!!!

  Quite honestly don't use it, anywhere MGP10 cannot go, LVL is the next step AFAIK.

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## METRIX

> Would I be right in saying that for an opening that the number of omitted studs seem to be what is needed as a split number at the ends?

  As a generalisation yes, but not always

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## OBBob

> Don't know where you get yours from, but down here MGP10 is straight, untwisted and uncuped, rare to find a rubbish piece.

  Not really had an issue in Melbourne from reputable suppliers.

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## intertd6

It's all crap pine & it will all warp, twist, bow & crack if left in the sun or weather for to long, mgp10 isn't as strong as mgp12, which in turn isn't as strong as mgp15.
inter

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## Micky013

Mgp12 is nearly always used in truss manufacturing. Some taller frames use mgp12 as studs because they can go the extra reach before you need to look at hardwood or lvl studs

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## Marc

MGP10 or LVL, I don't even know who stocks MGP12 let alone MGP15

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## sol381

machine graded pine and lvl are 2 completely different animals.youd never use lvl as stud or top and bottom plate.. any comepany who staocks mgp 10 would stock 12 and 15.. Every set of plans ive been  given in the last couple of years has asked for mgp 12. anything structural will normally be at least 12.. anything over 2.7m will be 12 as well..The rating does have a difference when used for loadbearing and structural uses. most external walls that support a roof will be mpg12 and 450mm centres .. internal non load will be mgp10 600mm centres..pick up a piece of mgp15 and it will feel twice the weight of mgp10.. 
If you are just doing it at home with no plans  just go 450mm centres to cover yourself.. an extra stick or 2 is worth it. and use a ribbon plate as well if carrying a roof load..

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## Micky013

> machine graded pine and lvl are 2 completely different animals.youd never use lvl as stud or top and bottom plate.. any comepany who staocks mgp 10 would stock 12 and 15.. Every set of plans ive been  given in the last couple of years has asked for mgp 12. anything structural will normally be at least 12.. anything over 2.7m will be 12 as well..The rating does have a difference when used for loadbearing and structural uses. most external walls that support a roof will be mpg12 and 450mm centres .. internal non load will be mgp10 600mm centres..pick up a piece of mgp15 and it will feel twice the weight of mgp10.. 
> If you are just doing it at home with no plans  just go 450mm centres to cover yourself.. an extra stick or 2 is worth it. and use a ribbon plate as well if carrying a roof load..

  We just did a house that had 90 x 42 lvl studs at 450 centres. 4 meter high frame that will be clad with cement sheet and stone

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## OBBob

> machine graded pine and lvl are 2 completely different animals.youd never use lvl as stud or top and bottom plate.. any comepany who staocks mgp 10 would stock 12 and 15.. Every set of plans ive been  given in the last couple of years has asked for mgp 12. anything structural will normally be at least 12.. anything over 2.7m will be 12 as well..The rating does have a difference when used for loadbearing and structural uses. most external walls that support a roof will be mpg12 and 450mm centres .. internal non load will be mgp10 600mm centres..pick up a piece of mgp15 and it will feel twice the weight of mgp10.. 
> If you are just doing it at home with no plans  just go 450mm centres to cover yourself.. an extra stick or 2 is worth it. and use a ribbon plate as well if carrying a roof load..

  I think the point was that LVL is not very expensive in comparison these days and it's perfect in dimension and stability.

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## Marc

In Sydney the availability of MGP12 is very low and mostly only in 90x45. MGP15? Good luck finding it. Sure it may be there somewhere but is not something you go to your local timber supplier and pick up

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## sol381

I doubt any engineer or architect would recommend mgp15 too often but it does get used.. mgp12 is pretty common.. 
For a 4m frame i can see why lvl is used..not many pieces of pine or hardwood would be straight over tho distance.. in normal house construction tho i couldnt see it being used too often..

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## Teeps

Couldn't be happier with the feedback here. Definitely more the wiser after reading through the comments.

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## sol381

Youre a lucky one.. Normally by post 5 its gone way off topic ..

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## ringtail

Doing a big renno atm and it's specced with MGP 12. Very rarely see 10 specced for anything up here.

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## Marc

So what does MGP stand for? MyGrandPa ?

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## OBBob

> So what does MGP stand for? MyGrandPa ?

  Military Grade Pine... I assume.

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## Marc

Aaaaarrrr .... Pine Gap in code  :Shock:

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## r3nov8or

> So what does MGP stand for? MyGrandPa ?

  Machine Graded Pine.  
F5, F7 is graded visually by a human

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## METRIX

> So what does MGP stand for? MyGrandPa ?

  MGP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJipTSvM14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfQ_60HuaTQ 
F Grade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmOERul4fVo 
MGP is somewhat better !!

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## Optimus

Exciting job linda has there.

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## METRIX

> Exciting job linda has there.

  Right you are Bro  :Biggrin:

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## Marc

> Machine Graded Pine.  
> F5, F7 is graded visually by a human

  What? Not Military grade? But Bob said Military grade and I believed him!
Machine graded, I would believe machine grated, machine gritted, macho grande, not machine graded ... no way.

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## r3nov8or

www.timber.net.au - The Australian Database of Timber - MGP (Machine Graded Pine) 
sorry Marc

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## Marc

Thank you Metrix, that grading is high tech ... the first one anyway. But I was kidding, I knew that MGP stands for Mathematics Genealogy Project. No debates, Google says so  :Smilie:

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## Marc

> www.timber.net.au - The Australian Database of Timber - MGP (Machine Graded Pine) 
> sorry Marc

  Well i'll be darned ! yourrright! 
But I must confess I have never seen MGP 15.  :Frown:  Anyone has a spare stick?

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## OBBob

> Well i'll be darned ! yourrright! 
> But I must confess I have never seen MGP 15.  Anyone has a spare stick?

  Sorry for misleading you Marc.  My construction work suddenly seems so much less impressive.   :Frown:

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