# Forum Home Renovation Electrical  DIY 'Ripple Signal' Ceiling Fan Noise Fix ?

## SteveAndBelle

Hi,  Before my wife and I rip our hair out in frustration I was wondering if any of you clever guys & gals knew of a way to stop the amplified Ripple Signals in the mains from making our expensive ceiling fans really noisy and our lights from flickering ?   We put up with it in our old house thinking it may have had something to do with the somewhat dodgy wiring etc. however just before we advertised the house for sale I replaced the fans with brand new $30 cheapies and took our beautiful $300 jobbies with us  :Smilie:  Thing is they're just as noisy in our current house as they were in our last house ... and that's even using different controllers and all ! In fact I've now tried three different types of controller on these fans but to no avail ... the old fashioned huge klunky transformer type, the newer 3 or 4 speed klunky rotary switch type and the even nicer smooth rotary knob type (which are the ones that originally came with the good fans but we left in the old house).   We now need to find a solution because we refuse to join the Air Conditioning energy guzzling bandwagon so we rely on ceiling fans to keep our cool on those hot Brisbane Summer nights (of which we're just starting to experience over 7 weeks later than usual).   Before I call the electricians in I thought there might be someone out there who could help with a DIY solution. I've got no problem doing any electrical work on the 'safe' side of the fusebox and have been doing it safely & well for many years so if there was some kind of filter I could install there would be no problem there ... I just don't know what to look for that's all (not that I've tried much).   I did find this on the 'net : http://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent...ext=infopapers but that's really all I could find on the topic. It seems that no-one else I talk to has this problem but I'm sure they do going my that document.   Anyone have a solution ?

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## NCArcher

Steve and Belle,
I don't think ripple signals are the problem.
The signals you refer to are used to switch the metering for hot water and heating systems (off peak) rather than switching using the old timer meters.
The signal only lasts a couple of minutes at most and is then shut off.
I think it more likely that the fans themselves are the problem. Two different locations and three different controllers with no change or improvement would clearly point to the fans as being the problem. 
I am an electrician but certainly no expert on Supply Authority switching and metering procedures.
I would call the supplier and voice your concerns but be advised that installing the fans yourself has probably voided any warranty. (so you might not want to mention that bit)

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## silentC

Did the $30 fans make the same noise?

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## davo_scuba

we have the same problem, but for me it's more the lights that flicker when dimmed, they are OK when fully turned on but as soon as I drop the power below half way at (7:30pm ish ) they can start to flicker also late into the night they have a tendency to do this as well with regards to the fans we have just got use to it (years in a engineering factory works wonders on the ears, think it upsets the wife though!!). 
It would be nice to buy something you could put in-line to stop this.
does anyone have any ideas ???

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## SilentButDeadly

I assume you are talking about the 'whun whun' struggling electric motor type noise that many fans make typically when they are tired of life.....I'm no sparky but I assumed the noise is something to do with a 'flat spot' in the motor or some such that created extra load on the electric motor.   
We've got two ceiling fans in our place. One is new as the original one was making this wonderful noise over our bed.  New fan and controller (decent one with 5 year warranty @ $120) fixed the drama.  Main thing to notice was that the manufacturer advised that to ensure the long life of the fan that we had to use the old style 3 position switch with big ungainly potted capacitor on the back supplied with the fan and that we weren't to use the speccy new HPM rotary dial controllers that I already had.   
I don't think it is the PS to your place.....

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## SteveAndBelle

Thanks guys ... but here are a few responses :  *NCArcher* - I thought it was the fans too _however_ our dimmable bed-side lights flicker the same rhythm 'pattern' whenever the fans make the noise.  I then thought that maybe the fans are to blame and they're introducing noise into the power and that the lights are just picking up on that ... but no !  I tested that theory one night by having the lights and the fan on but as soon as I heard the fan make the noise and saw the lights flicker I quickly turned the fan off and bingo, the lights were still flickering and then continued to do so randomly over next hour or two.  If it was as simple as the fans being faulty I'd be very happy ... apart of course from losing $600 worth of fans  :Smilie:   These fans are now out of warranty so I doubt the manufacturer will care if I installed them or not.  I will probably just say they were in the house when we bought it.  *SilentC* - Did the $30 fans make the same noise ?  Well, once I had installed them I turned them on to make sure they didn't wobble and to make sure they actually turned around.  They did and that's all I needed to know  :Smilie:   We didn't really spend much time in the house after it was on the market as it sold within a week so I suppose I'll never know what the fans were like.  Saying that though my mum & dad (a couple of suburbs away) had interstate guests stay recently in the spare bedroom and they had a similar complaint about the strange noises from the ceiling fan ... so much so that they went out and bought their own pedestal fan !  I know for a fact that it's a $30 cheapie with a $10 light hanging off the bottom.  *Davo_Scuba* - Yep, that's it with us too.  The lights flicker or 'shimmer' ONLY when they are dimmed.  At full power they're perfectly fine however when you stop and concentrate on them you can still notice a very, very, VERY slight shimmering effect when the fans are making their noise ... but absolutely nothing to worry about at all.  *SilentButDeadly* - 'Whun Whun', YES !!  That's EXACTLY it however I doubt it's got much to do with the age or 'load' of the fan because these have been doing it from new and the one at dads place is only 3-4 years old and hardly ever used !  Interesting what you said about the controller though because that has always been in the back of my mind, but that doesn't resolve the fact that the bed-side lights do it too ! 
I just don't know anymore.  Our current house, our old house and my mum & dads house are all within a few km's of each other so maybe it's a widespread problem with this area but no-one else could be bothered complaining about it or perhaps some fans don't make as much noise as others.  That document I posted the link to above kinda proves that it can be a widespread issue and also proves that people can get irritated by it so I doubt we're alone. 
I might start calling Energex and a few electricians to see what they say.  If anyone else has any input please, please, please add it to this forum as any extra pieces of the puzzle might just allow us to solve the problem. 
Thanks again for your input so far. 
Whun, whun, whun, whun, whun, whun, whun, whun ....  GRRRRRRRRR !!!!!

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## SilentButDeadly

Hmmmm...in that case....you may not be getting enough grunt in your power.  If the grid in your area is oversubscribed (too many users, too many air conditioners) then you may not be getting enough volts and amps (particularily at peak times) and it might be resulting in the grid supply oscillating.....oHHHH he's guessing now!!!

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## SteveAndBelle

> If the grid in your area is oversubscribed (too many users, too many air conditioners)

  Great ... so the people who try to do the right thing by buying houses designed for the climate (ie. nice old airey QLD'ers instead of those new eave-less black-roofed brick & tile boxes) so they don't need to waste energy on air-conditioners now have to put up with the effects of all the power hungry people anyway ?  I really hope this isn't the case !! 
I think I might give Energex a call and see what they have to say about all this now that I have some more 'ammo'  :Smilie:   I'll let you all know what the outcome is ....

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## null & void

> Hi,  Before my wife and I rip our hair out in frustration I was wondering if any of you clever guys & gals knew of a way to stop the amplified Ripple Signals in the mains from making our expensive ceiling fans really noisy and our lights from flickering ?

  You're not the only one that notices it.
I hear it in my ceiling fans, 2400W bar heater and see the interference on my TV. 
I've worked in the substations and know that the tones are generated all day for more than just switching hotwater on and off but also for changing transformer settings and switching other loads. 
I seem to remember reading somewhere about a notch filter that is able to be fitted after the meters to filter out the noise.

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## SteveAndBelle

> I seem to remember reading somewhere about a notch filter that is able to be fitted after the meters to filter out the noise.

  Whoa, now we're getting somewhere !!  Thanks a bunch Null & Void  :Smilie:  
OK, I called Energex at about 5pm and just asked if anything could be done.  Strangely enough this type of thing is classed as an 'Emergency' even though I stressed that it wasn't and the Energex person also knew that it wasn't.  I didn't think too much more of it, until .... 
My wife and I came home from seeing '*A night at the Museum*' (a funny 'light & fluffy' movie, go see it for sure!) at 9pm to find a calling card left by Energex.  Amazing !!  They had already been out to test our supply !  The card says that they couldn't find any problems however they will be in contact in the morning.  Wow, efficient eh ! 
We'll see what happens and I'll update this forum but thanks again to all who've added their 'bit' so far.  I'm going to get this resolved no matter what and I'm going to tell the rest of the world how to fix it too !

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## Master Splinter

You might be looking for one answer to unrelated problems. 
For the fan noise...check the bearings.  I doubt that the fans have bearing races, they probably have oil impregnated sleeve bearings and these could be gummed up with all kinds of airborne grot.  This makes them harder for the motor to turn, and of course noisier. 
For the flickering lights...what sort of light are they, and do they have the right type of dimmer (as the lights dont seem to flicker when on full power)?   
Low voltage lights need both the right sort of transformer and the right sort of dimmer (I can't remember offhand if it's a leading edge or trailing edge dimmer).  And of course, compact fluroescents don't dim. 
I would (since you are happy to work with electrics):Take down the fans for a night or two.  Confirm that the flicker in the lights is/is not there. (I'm assuming the lights are not integrated with the fan)Swap the light dimmer switch for a standard on/off switch.  Check for any remaining flicker in the lights.If there is no flicker, reconsider why you need a dimmer.  Maybe using a lower wattage bulb would be better (dimming lights is pretty energy inefficient - a light  at 75&#37; brightness is using more like 90% power) and adding a few extra lights/lightswitches for task lighting if needed)If - despite having taken all suspect devices offline - there is still flicker, contact your energy provider and get them to take a look.In a worst case (maybe someone nearby has a lumping big TIG welder with high frequency attatchment for welding aluminium and they like to weld at crazy hours of the night) you may be able to solve it by adding some ferrite EMI noise suppression (download the Ferrites primer from here).

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## SteveAndBelle

> For the fan noise...check the bearings. I doubt that the fans have bearing races, they probably have oil impregnated sleeve bearings and these could be gummed up with all kinds of airborne grot. This makes them harder for the motor to turn, and of course noisier.  For the flickering lights...what sort of light are they, and do they have the right type of dimmer (as the lights dont seem to flicker when on full power)?

  Thanks 'Master Spliter' however I know that this isn't a bearing related problem because this has been happening from the day the fans were initially installed from new.  Sure they may have been poorly made but that doesn't explain why they're only noisy at the same time the lights flicker !  I doubt the dirt & grime would know when to jump into the bearings right at the exact moment the lights start flickering and then jump out again when they stop  :Wink:   Nah, it's an electrical noise for sure.  I can _just_ hear the constant mechanical noise the fans make when it's really, really quiet but when the electrical noise cuts in it's much louder and much more annoying. 
The lights on the bed side tables are 'good looking' versions of those silly three stage touch-lamps.  I've always hated those touch-lamps mainly because I know that the dodgy built-in dimmer circuitry is only going to last 12 months and the fact that all the ones I've seen in the past have been dog-ugly.  These however suited our bedroom perfectly and I didn't know they were touch lamps until I unpacked them and went looking for the switch !  The thing is that the shimmering is really noticeable on the first two 'dimmed' settings but it's acceptable on the third setting which I'm pretty sure is full power.  It's no real problem because we just use them on their dimmest setting to find our way around the room at night and my wife then cranks her side light up to full power when she wants to read.   
I'm basically using the shimmering lights as a means of proving that there's something wrong with something other than the ceiling fans !  Our old bedside lights were just simple 40Watt on/off switched bulbs and they shimmered as well, similarly to the way the new touch-lamps shimmer at full brightness. 
I'll see what Energex says when they come back to 'investigate' but if they can't find anything I'll then go hunting the problem down myself.  First step is to take the fan controller out of the picture so there's nothing in between the fan and the power source except for a switch. 
I'll let you all know what happens ...

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## SteveAndBelle

Well, there's a dead end ! 
Energex left a great note in the letterbox telling me that everything checked out OK and that they would be in contact to discuss the problem further ... but of course we've heard nothing for nearly a week ! 
I might get a sparky in the listen to the problem and see what they think.  I can then get in touch with Energex after that if need be. 
The saga continues ...

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## spartan

I will give you a tip in regards to this.... 
Call Energex and ask them to read out the report that the field technican submitted. 
You want to ask a couple of questions... 
1. What is the voltage in your street?
2. What is the voltage at your box? 
In many parts of Brisbane a number of the street transformer were under spec'd for the loads (air con etc). 
Energex have been replacing 50KVA transformers, with 200 KVa tranformers right across brisbane. 
Do you notice lights dimming when the fans are off? perhaps when the fridge kicks in? 
Do you have an RCD? As earth leakage could be another issue worthy of investigation - and could be tested easilt with something like a powerpoint tester...if your RCD trips at 15ma when its rated at 30ma it may reflect residual current on your circuit. 
Are the fans on the same circuit? on the same circuit as the lights in the bedroom? 
How are the fans wired? Eg, does the Power go to the back of the swith and then out to the fans?

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## Deanom

Great thread.
I too have been having this problem.  Intermittent noise in the fan(s).  Replaced the old cheap fans with expensive fans and I am still having the same problem.  Exactly the same sort of noise.  The noise lasts for about 5-20 seconds and I have been determined enough to run between the bedrooms to discover all fans making the same noise.  It definately aint no bearing problem.  I am very frustrated with this.  Intermittent would be anywhere between 1 to 6hrs (estimate as I dont time it, it just wakes me up in the night, everynight).  This has to be the reason.  Searching Google has yielded that clipsal has a fan controller that is supposed to be immune to this ripple voltage.  Try this www.*clipsal*.com.au/consumer/<wbr>products/DandC_Elec/Lights_*Fan*s/dimmers  I dont know whether it works.  Given that I've bought 4 new controllers from HPM for about $50 each with out any difference to the problem, I'll give clipsal a ring on Monday to see if their product is the solution for my woes.  N.B.  Called HPM today and their sales rep knew nothing about their products nor was the help phone number on the controller documentation correct.
Keep us informed if you find a solution.
Cheers
Deanom

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## pedro the swift

Hi, well, a most interesting problem. After reading all the posts and having a little think about it :Rolleyes: . 
Am I right in reading that the fan noise is there when the lights are on? These lights are dimmer controlled? I would suggest if that is the case the problem may lie with the light dimmers.
Light dimmers use electronics that turn on for a particular part of the time cycle of the power supply. The longer they are on the brighter the light and vice versa. The dimmer will turn on typical 50 to 100 times a second depending on type. 
This may cause fairly high instantaneous current to be drawn from the mains (only for a very short time) at the instant the dimmer switches. This can result in a very quick drop in voltage on the mains which can affect the rotational speed of the fans  and may result in the fans very quickly slowing down and then resuming speed. 
I guess thats easy enough to check. Turn all lights off and fan should work normally. If you want to get really sophiscated you could get the mains checked for any harmoinc noise pulses with a oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer.
Do you have any other electrical equipment that use electronic control that could be the cause?. Do you have a computer which is left on? Or a Tv on standby. Sometimes these items, because of the pecularities of their power systems can introduce "harmonics" into the mains also. 
Solution: remove dimmers.  install suitable filters( may be costly).  Install air con.

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## Deanom

Sorry Pedro but you a not on the right track my friend.  The fan noise is from the voltage fluctuation caused by the ripple injection signal.  
Anyway this is the latest.
Spoke to the manufacturer of my fans (Hunter Pacific) and they sold me a filter for the signal.  According to them the problem is wide spread and creating a lot more calls to their warranty department.  After much discussion, they advised me that they stock the filter and sell it a no profit for customers.  They also told me that one filter connected to the circuit would cut the signal out throughout that circuit.  The price for such a filter would be $100 incl deliv and GST.  Well after waiting a month (because they were out of stock) the filter arrived yesterday.  It is about 12cm long x 5cm wide x 3cm thick (I say about), and arrived with the invoice and no instruction manual.  I noticed that there was a 1Amp in line fuse and thought that was suspicious since the light circuit I want to attach it to has a 10amp circuit breaker.  Fortunately the manufacturers details were printed on the filter and I was able to contact them direct.  They straight away corrected me and told me that the filter that I was supplied was only to be hooked up to one fan only.  They also said they supply a filter for a 10amp circuit at $440 and its size is approx 20cm square and is sometimes either mounted in the roof or switchboard depending on the room. 
FYI, if you want such an item contact the supplier directly as I found them to be most helpful.  Their details are as follows:  
Item: Zellweger Tone Filter Unit
Manufacturer: Gayrad 
594 Old Bympie Road
Narangba QLD 4504
Ph 07 28886566
Fax 07 38886543   
BTW, installed it tonight and it is working like a charm.  I'm not that impressed that $240 fans (x4) will cost me an extra $400 to stamp out the noise.  Thank god no more intermittent Whun, Whun, Whun..... in my room at least.
Cheers
Dean

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## pedro the swift

Well, Deanom,  good to see that you at least have managed to find the cause of this strange fan behaviour. 
I must admit I have fans also but have never had a problem of this nature with them. I wasn't aware that the voltage ripple would be enough of a level or frequency to affect fan motors in this way. I also have ripple controlled hot water and you can hear the tones emanating from the control unit if standing near the switchboard when they are sent.
I will enquire from people in the industry what sort of level and freq they use. 
Its a pity that the fix is so expensive. I am also surprised that it doesnt adversley affect more equipment particularly electronic stuff. 
Maybe some people notice its affect more because of being closer to the source of the signals so they are at a higher level.

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## SteveAndBelle

Well, it's been a month since my last entry and that's mainly because I had nothing more to say ... until today ! 
When I walked to the train station this morning I noticed a couple of Energex guys shimmying up the power pole across the road that fed our house.  I thought it was a bit strange but it reminded me to call Energex to chase them up about the fan noise problem. 
Anyhoo, when I got home this afternoon I found a couple of pieces of paper in our letterbox from Energex.  One of them was a small note explaining that they've installed a monitoring device to our supply wires and the other one was a fault log asking us to record as accurately as possible whenever the problem occurred.  This is obviously for them to compare the times of the reported problems to whatever the box monitors up on the pole. 
Now this is _progress_ !  Strange they hadn't even bother to call me over the last month to tell me what was going on tho, oh well. 
I took a picture of the pole & the monitoring device just before the sun went down too far.  It might interest some of you.  The monitoring box is the beige thing strapped to the left side of the pole.  See it here: http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...itoronpole.jpg 
So, this could be interesting afterall !  I might be able to prove once and for all that it's a power supply problem and not a fan or installation problem !  Yay.  *Deanom*, great to hear you've found a solution by asking the manufacturers.  Going by the brand and cost of your fans it sounds as though you have the same ones as us.  Great looking and very effective fans but awful when they make this noise hey  :Frown:  
Well, I'd better go now and start recording the fan noise for Energex.  I can't wait to hear them say something like "well, it seems as though you need a notch filter installed" and "we'll be around tomorrow to install the filter for you for no charge".  Hey, I can dream can't I  :Wink:  
Check back here again soon OK !

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## spartan

was that your pole I was on?

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## SteveAndBelle

Spartan, are you serious ?? 
If so, what does the street name start & end with and what letter doubles up somewhere in the name ? 
I can't believe this  :Wink:

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## spartan

I'd say i've done a couple each day of this week. Plus some low volatge call outs. All on the nth side of Brisbane. 
So anything is possible but not likely, as there are crews doing this all the time and not just because of customer complaints/queries like yours.... :Biggrin:

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## spartan

> Well, I'd better go now and start recording the fan noise for Energex.  I can't wait to hear them say something like "well, it seems as though you need a notch filter installed" and "we'll be around tomorrow to install the filter for you for no charge".  Hey, I can dream can't I  
> Check back here again soon OK !

  ROFLMAO :Biggrin:

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## SteveAndBelle

Ha, yeah.  I was ROFLMAO'ing too just thinking about that  :Smilie:  
Nah, I'm inner West Brissie.  I have been filling out my log form and reporting any noise bursts to the second so they know exactly what's going on and can hopefully compare it to something their monitor box will reveal. 
I have noticed though that it mainly happens right on the hour and half-past the hour for a few minutes and then stops for another 28 minutes until the next time.  It can run randomly on and off for short bursts of 2 seconds or so plus it can also run constantly for about 30 seconds at a time during these few minutes.  I don't think I've heard the same 'pattern' twice ... and I'm not going to sample it to compare either  :Wink:  
I've never noticed how regular it is until tonight as I've been staring at a clock for most of the evening trying to be as accurate as I can for the log report thingy. 
This has now concreted the fact that it has to be 'Ripple Signals' surely ?!?!?  What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ??  Anyone ?

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## Metal Head

> What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ?? Anyone ?

  What about the weather forecast on sky news that's on every half hour - it maybe something to do with all those troughs :Rolleyes: .

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## Deanom

> This has now concreted the fact that it has to be 'Ripple Signals' surely ?!?!?  What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ??  Anyone ?

  Steve,
I tell no lie, it is Ripple signals.  I had a pdf document from Hunter Pacific (fan manufacturer) detailing the problem.  They claim the noise can even be picked up in things like toasters (if operating), fridges and other similar appliances with motors.  The other night I picked up the noise in the Meile range hood when it was operating.  Apparently the voltage of the signal should be something like 10V but can be more depending on the distance from the Ripple Signal Injection device.  The frequency is usually 1050hz but you can check this if you go to the meter box and read the details on the receiver.  My receiver is something like 1043Hz.
These ripple signals are frequent.  They switch on other things like pumps (whose pumps im not sure but may be sewer/public utilities), street lights, two domestic tarriffs and a whole heap of other stuff.  After switching them on, they also need another signal to switch them off.  I tried to attach the pdf from Hunter pacific, but it constantly scans over 150kB and this forum wont let me attach it.  I'll email it to you if you like.  Why dont you give the supplier of that filter a call.  He is a wealth on information.  He even told me he has his aircon connected up to the second tarrif and he rarely finds the electricity off when he needs his aircon.  Call him, I'm sure hell tell you.
Cheers

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## millennium

FWIW, I fixed a buzzy bedroom fan by tightening the three screws which hold the glass shade on. 
Pete

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## SteveAndBelle

Sorry Millennium, this is definitely an electrical noise, not a mechanical noise !  I know it's hard to imagine but those who have experienced it will know exactly what I'm talking about  :Smilie:  
OK, here's where we're at ... 
I just called Energex for an update on this issue.  The nice technician told me that the 1050Hz ripple signals the monitoring equipment picked up over the last few weeks had been over the magic 10 Volt level, but not by much. 
He told me that they had been waiting for parts but they would soon be installing a filter onto the pole feeding our house to hopefully solve the problem.  Pity our neighbours will still have to put up with the problem (if they have it) but oh well, they can complain themselves if they need to  :Smilie:  
He also told me that the filter probably wouldn't fix the problem for everything effected in the house (obviously) but it will definitely make a noticeable difference to the fan noise which is what we're really concerned about anyway.  The poor quality crappy touch lamps we have on our bedside tables will still probably 'shimmer' while they're dimmed whenever the ripple signals are transmitted however we're not too concerned about that.  Our main concern is the noise from our expensive fans.  We only bought those particular touch lights because they looked the part, not because of the touch dimming ability.  I was seriously considering ripping the cheap dimming circuitry out and mounting a simple elegant switch in the base anyway so maybe this will be the catalyst for that little project  :Smilie:   Hmmm, maybe a nice 'euro style' metal rotary dimmer switch ... hmmmmmm. 
So, that's it for now.  I'll update this thread once I know more of the filter installation OK. 
Hopefully the problem will be fixed just as winter hits where we'll be relying on the fans all the time  :Wink:

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## scooter

> ...and mounting a simple elegant switch in the base anyway

  Or just an inline (cord) switch.  
Recommended mod  :2thumbsup:

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## null & void

> I just called Energex for an update on this issue.  The nice technician told me that the 1050Hz ripple signals the monitoring equipment picked up over the last few weeks had been over the magic 10 Volt level, but not by much

  Thanks for the update.
I'm a hundred meters or so away from a substation so maybe I'm getting more signal here. 
I have family living around the corner and the noise at the meter box on the front verandah has actually woken someone asleep on the lounge a few meters away. 
It only bothers me as I get horizontal lines across my TV when the noise occurs.

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## SteveAndBelle

> Or just an inline (cord) switch.  
> Recommended mod

  Yeah, but an inline switch wont allow you to dim unless of course it's one of those sliding dimmer switch thingys ... plus as these lamps have circuitry in the base I've got a nice big area to play with (approx. 8" round and about 1" thick) so I will easily be able fit anything I like in there without having to cram it in. 
I'm really not a fan of inline switches anyway.  Sure they work perfectly well but I hate having to yank the cord up from behind the furniture just to turn the light on or off.  Not good for anal people like me who need everything 'in its place' at all times.  I class inline switches as a very cheap & cheerful solution (which is why more and more things now use them) so if I'm going to modify these lamps I'm going to want to do it 'properly'  :Smilie:  
Once I get into rewiring the house within the next few years I'm planning on wiring up a 'lamp circuit' for each room that is switched & dimmable via a dedicated switch on the standard wallplate.  The switch on the top will control the normal ceiling mounted lighting but the switch on the bottom will control the 'lamp circuit' so I'll never have to run around the house switching off all the low wattage lamps we have turned on here & there.  I can also incorporate another run of 'light duty' cable for feature lighting on this circuit too so I can get the 'lamp switch' to also control lighting for the artwork hanging on the walls. 
So with the flick of a switch I can have full bright light from the ceiling fittings but with the flick of the other switch I can have a room full of nice dimmable ambient light (which incidentally is what we mainly use each evening anyway). 
Not too sure on the legality of this these days but I have seen this type of system run in some old houses and it works brilliantly !!  I've also seen it in the UK but both installs had dedicated US style power sockets (two parallel flat pins) so all the plugs on the lights will have to be changed but that's no problem. 
Anyhoo, I'll stop crapping on now  :Smilie:  
Just to update the thread though ... I was surprised to discover that the day I sent that last update I got home to find an Energex calling card in the letterbox and another strange looking box on the pole across the street (a bit lower down this time).  Yes, the filter had been installed already !!  Amazing what a phone call can do  :Smilie:  
I rushed inside and turned the fans on but didn't have the time to really monitor the noise properly.  My wife mentioned tht they seemed to now be silent however we can't sleep with the fans on these days as it's really cooled down here in brisbane and we end up waking up at about 3am freezing our butts off ! 
I'll see how I go over the weekend and let you all know ...

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## Ausyuppy

Steve,
Just curious how you went with all of this. Did they end up filtering your power?
Cheers
Steve 
Edit: Oops I should have gone back through the post before I posted  :Smilie:  I have recently moved to Brissy and am now working for Energex doing Comms. Working in the substations day to day, I have come to enjoy the tones that you hear when the "ripple signals" also known as Audio Frequency Load Control (AFLC) startup. Now that I have heard them in the substation (They can be quite loud), I can tell the time in my bedroom now when I hear the signal coming through the fan, baby monitor and bathroom fleuro  :Smilie:  
Funnily enough I'm gonna have to call Energex Customer Service to organise something for my place! 
Cheers
Steve

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## trover

While other checks on the wiring and supply voltage are worth doing, I do believe you are referring to the switching tones used by the supply authority to switch our hot water relays on and off and other things. Back in the 70s this was a 1050 Hertz signal added to the mains supply. Typically it will pulse a few times, but only for up to a minute. This is often a problem in public address systems and audio gear, with the tones coming out the speakers. 
The problem is solved in an amplifier by adding a fiter is series with the 240VAC feed to the transformer. This consists a series air cored inductor in the active and neutral legs, with a capacitor on each side. the LC combination being tuned to the 1050 (pretty sure on the frequency, but my memory may be fadi..) Hz.  
While it may be possible to build this into audio gear, anything like that on the house wiring, while it would probably do the trick, needs to be approved etc, and that's the hurdle. Surprising that such a device is not available, however, as this problem has been around for many years.  
Now I apologise for not solving the problem, but it does appear that this might be the problem .

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## trover

Perhaps I could just say - Welcome to brisbane - dont worry the tones are normal -

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## nick h

> Steve,
> I tell no lie, it is Ripple signals. I had a pdf document from Hunter Pacific (fan manufacturer) detailing the problem. They claim the noise can even be picked up in things like toasters (if operating), fridges and other similar appliances with motors. The other night I picked up the noise in the Meile range hood when it was operating. Apparently the voltage of the signal should be something like 10V but can be more depending on the distance from the Ripple Signal Injection device. The frequency is usually 1050hz but you can check this if you go to the meter box and read the details on the receiver. My receiver is something like 1043Hz.
> These ripple signals are frequent. They switch on other things like pumps (whose pumps im not sure but may be sewer/public utilities), street lights, two domestic tarriffs and a whole heap of other stuff. After switching them on, they also need another signal to switch them off. I tried to attach the pdf from Hunter pacific, but it constantly scans over 150kB and this forum wont let me attach it. I'll email it to you if you like. Why dont you give the supplier of that filter a call. He is a wealth on information. He even told me he has his aircon connected up to the second tarrif and he rarely finds the electricity off when he needs his aircon. Call him, I'm sure hell tell you.
> Cheers

  hi,any chance you can email me the pdf file?

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## scooter

Gday Nick, & welcome  :Smilie:  
That user hasn't been online since March 07, might have to try sending him an email (if his user profile is set up to receive them) to make contact.  
Cheers................Sean

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## craig 75

I have fitted ceiling fans, the energy company sends ripple signals down at all times to change timers and other things, i have found that beacon lighting sells ripple filters you put in line of your fan to filter out the noise which sounds like a morse code type of hum ,
Also if you live closer to a sub station /or pole transformer this may affect you more
only downfall is cost $190.00 per filter per fan ,
I havent purchased one as i hope there may be a type that you can put on the meter board which would cover the whole circuit ,
hope more information will come from others 
this is my first post ,this sight is the best :2thumbsup:  :Biggrin:

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## SteveAndBelle

G'Day. 
It's been a while since I posted anything here but I thought I'd better report on the status of this problem. 
The Energex notch filter box installed on the feeder from the pole on the street seemed to really cut the noise down however it was still there and still made it difficult to sleep in Summer when the fans were used the most. 
It doesn't really matter anymore because we have since moved house and left the fans and the noise problem for the new owners to enjoy :) 
We only moved several houses away in a different street and will most probably be installing fans there soon to help cool us in Summer.  I'll prolly just be getting cheapie remote controlled fans because I couldn't be bothered running a heap of new wiring down walls etc. as we'll only be in the house for a few years before we demolish it and build new. 
Fingers crossed these cheapies will be silent.  I hope this thread has pointed many others in the right direction to get similar problems solved. 
Seeya.

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## ripple pain

I have just bought in QLD and my power comes from the Energex grid. And the first few nights we tried to sleep with the ceiling fan on. But about every half hour, at the top of the hour and at 30 mins past, there is this nasty noise from the fan. I twigged that it was the control signals that Energex were injecting into the grid, and have complained to them.  
Their useless response thus far is to "test" the power supply, and send a stereotyped letter saying nothing was wrong with the power supply. However, they completely ignored the details of the problems that I submitted to them. 
They just do not care. I am going to take this matter further and encourage others to complain about the "dirty" power they are supplying to households. 
Grrrrr.

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## plum

Is this guy serious?

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