# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  How to insulate over/with recessed oyster lights?

## rm195

I have four rooms with recessed oyster lights (mounted in 26cm diameter round holes in the plasterboard ceiling, Fagerhult light fittings with 26W two-pin CFL). In all other rooms I have halogen downlights, which are covered with Tenmat loft covers and surrounded by insulation.  I would like to get rid of the gaps in insulation around and over my recessed oyster lights, but so far have not been able to find any suitable covers in Australia. 
I am considering a few options, but can anyone recommend the best or a better idea?   Find a recessed oyster light that can be covered and replace the existing unitsFill in the holes in the ceiling (what with, wood, plaster?) and have some flush-fitting lights installedGet some loft covers for the existing oysters (where from?)  
Thanks for any ideas!

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## SilentButDeadly

Get some sheet metal folded up into boxes to cover the back of the light (or make something similar up with compressed cement sheet)...

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## rm195

> Get some sheet metal folded up into boxes to cover the back of the light (or make something similar up with compressed cement sheet)...

  Thanks SBD, sounds like the smart way to go. I guess I'm a bit worried about what happens if something goes wrong with a home-made box, but it looks like something I can follow up.

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## Overkill

Keep in mind that a 26W CFL is half the power in a much larger space than a halogen so there is less heat in a larger volume and therefore less danger of overheating. I would buy some expanded metal mesh and fold it into a shallow rectangular box that will fit thru the 26cm hole. The mesh is easy to cut and form so you can do it yourself.

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## rm195

Thanks Overkill as well, I finally got around to making up some metal mesh boxes and covering my lights. I should have remembered that one fitting had an intrusion nearby, but I was able to reshape that box to match.   
At least I had confidence thanks to the advice from SBD and Overkill...

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## GoLights

I would have suggested the same thing.  
Did it work ok? or did you have some issues getting to work? Would love to know how you went about it.

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## FrodoOne

> I have four rooms with recessed oyster lights (mounted in 26cm diameter round holes in the plasterboard ceiling, Fagerhult light fittings with 26W two-pin CFL). In all other rooms I have halogen downlights, which are covered with Tenmat loft covers and surrounded by insulation.  I would like to get rid of the gaps in insulation around and over my recessed oyster lights, but so far have not been able to find any suitable covers in Australia.

  I note that you want to "get rid of the gaps in insulation around and over my recessed oyster light."  
If these fittings were designed for CFLs, they should include adequate ventilation and this ventilation should not be compromised. 
While the following site (concerning the ban on incandescent lamps) at about half way down contains information about CFLs in *Existing* Luminaires, the points about heat build-up in enclosed fittings containing CFLs (or LEDs) should always be kept in mind, 
Ban Incandescent Lamps?

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## FrodoOne

> I note that you want to "get rid of the gaps in insulation around and over my recessed oyster light."  
> If these fittings were designed for CFLs, they should include adequate ventilation and this ventilation should not be compromised. 
> While the following site (concerning the ban on incandescent lamps) at about half way down contains information about CFLs in *Existing* Luminaires, the points about heat build-up in enclosed fittings containing CFLs (or LEDs) should always be kept in mind, 
> Ban Incandescent Lamps?

  Oops.  The reference did not come through properly.
Here it is Ban Incandescent Lamps?

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## GoLights

> Oops.  The reference did not come through properly.
> Here it is Ban Incandescent Lamps?

  Incandescent lights have been banned and are replaced with CFL, Halogen, and LED. The wattages are a lot lower saving power, and reducing heat considerably.
I'd definitely steer clear of Incandescent lamps

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## FrodoOne

> Incandescent lights have been banned and are replaced with CFL, Halogen, and LED. The wattages are a lot lower saving power, and reducing heat considerably.
> I'd definitely steer clear of Incandescent lamps

  Not all incandescent lamps HAVE yet been banned.  General purpose lamps over 42 W have been banned BUT special purpose lamps (such as used in ovens) are still allowed - because there are no known/economic substitutes!
Of course, large sized "heat lamps", such as are used in bathrooms, are still allowed - because they ARE heat sources.
Halogen lamps ARE incandescent lamps, which are only SLIGHTLY more efficient than normal incandescent lamps.  _(Strangely, I easily found a light fitting on the GoLights site [SKU: SUN-SO3103/30 Con] in which the advertisement states "This light accommodates for 1 x 75W E27 [light bulb]. This globe can be found in our online store.".  
When I checked further, I found that, in fact, ALL the non "circular fluorescent" "Oyster" fittings which are advertised on this site include the advice that they utilize one or more 60 W or 75 W incandescent lamps - "which can be :found in our online store".  
 If these fittings ARE fully sealed [and I cannot determine this from the photos on the site], they unsuitable for use with CFLs or LEDs.)_  
HOWEVER,
did you actually look at the site concerned?   (Ban Incandescent Lamps?) 
 Did you read the paragraphs under CFLs in *Existing* Luminaires? 
Since you are advertising "GoLights" and style  yourself as a "Lighting Expert",  I presume that you do understand the perils of installing CFLs and LEDs in sealed fittings.
While the heat from CFLs IS reduced considerably, as compared to incandescent lamps, that is NOT the point.  The point is that there is still heat - most of it generated by the associated electronic components - concentrated within the base.  If that heat cannot easily escape into the environment, the temperature within the fitting and the lamp-base will increase to be above the maximum temperature rating of the components concerned. 
In that article, with a test set up to check/demonstrate this problem, the *socket* of a 10W CFL in a 3 litre sealed enclosure reached 48 C in just 10 minutes and 58 C in 40 minutes.  This exceeds the temperature rating of the electrolytic capacitors (and many other components) involved - and the temperature of the internal components would almost certainly have been higher!   
The point of my comments and the reason for drawing attention to this is not to advocate the use of incandescent lamps but point out the reasons why you  *do not use CFLs in fully enclosed light fittings.*

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## GoLights

I simply meant in an enclosed area. that's the point of this thread

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## rm195

> I would have suggested the same thing.  
> Did it work ok? or did you have some issues getting to work? Would love to know how you went about it.

  Pretty much I made up open boxes out of a stiff and robust wire mesh (easier for me to obtain than expanded mesh) and wire-tied the sides together.  The boxes were as big as possible based on the size of the mesh sheet, from memory the clearances to insulation are at least regulation (that was the plan at the time).  The boxes are held down by the insulation batts, which are laid over the boxes and packed on the sides, and are mostly held on by gravity and friction. The last time I was in the roofspace, the insulation covers haven't moved or changed at all.
I haven't had any accelerated failures of lamps so far.

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## GoLights

Glad to hear you've sorted it out! 
Sounds like its working pretty well for you. good luck with it all

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