# Forum Home Renovation Television, Computers & Phones  How to sell a good app idea ???

## ringtail

Hi all. Anyone into app development ? Ive got a good idea but no resources or any idea how to proceed to get it developed or even just sell the concept for profit share. I imagine this area is rife with deceipt and idea theft so my main priority is to find a Aussie company or individual that could either finance or develop a idea and take it to the market. Any advice muchly appreciated.

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## Moondog55

New Inventors
Do NOT share until patented do not tell anyone what it is or how it works
My business angels perhaps but I hear they want up to 90% of the business *( which can be fair in some instances)*

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## ringtail

Thanks MD. Ive done a little bit of research on it and there are companies around that will do it but you have to fully disclose what the concept is and they then accept or reject with no non - disclosure, just their word that wont secretly develop. Its also very difficult to patent a idea or concept and very expensive to develop a app to have something to patent. To be honest, I'm too scared to even google my idea in case someone at google ( or other) is monitoring key strokes - paranoid much. My wife works in IT and is going to ask one of the egghead developers ( some may do it on the side). Ive been in this situation before with a invention  and its brick wall time. Getting the idea is the easy part - taking the step to market without it been flogged by someone is the hard part. If it were something I could make ( anything other than computer stuff) I would be golden but at them moment I'm buggered if I know what to do.

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## Danny

Ringtail, 
Your heading, text and the term 'app' is ambiguous but it seems you are referring to a patent. You cannot sell an idea unless you own the intellectual property. The best you will get here are general pointers as information specific to your situation requires disclosure and you won't even get that advice from a patent attorney, they are nothing more than glorified grubby money grabbers. 
Firstly and broadly speaking, you must not disclose, publish details or demonstrate your 'invention' before the patent has been applied for. This is different to the advice already given; patents take years before they are granted and intellectual property rights are granted from the application date once accepted. You will often see 'Patent Pending' on product packaging. This is not a requirement but it signifies that the product has patent applications that have yet gone to grant.  
There is nothing stopping you from manufacturing without having a patent. All a patent does (supposedly) is stop others from copying your idea. A patent is also a tangible asset that you can sell. However, the average cost of defending a patent infringement in Australia is well over $400,000. If you go to market with a new 'product' (an encompassing term), you will have an immediate market place advantage and can charge a premium price in the absence of competition but you also need to quickly let people know about the product and the advertising jargon applicable to consumers is WIIFM (What's In It For Me). New products also have a dynamic shelf life, once you have competition from other cloned or hybridised products or the concept ages and the cream of the market has been scooped, the market share tapers. It is also hard to defend infringement against multiple multi nationals. 
To be granted a patent, prior art must not be known. Even if an idea is unique in itself, if the components of that idea or method already exist elsewhere, that could then constitute prior art. Only 2% of patent applications are successful and a good percentage of the successful applications are worth little more than ego massaging. Patent attorneys will not advise you that you have no chance of having the patent granted as the vast majority of their income comes from the dreamers that they lead like sheep to the slaughter. 
To apply for a patent, you need to see a patent attorney and supply diagrams etc. and discuss how it works and what components of the concept you want to apply for. Once the paperwork is prepared, you need to carefully study every fine detail and look for errors and omissions. This can take several weeks. All patent applications are not the same and prices vary. There are also international patents that you can apply for and this application will go through a process that lasts for a couple of years before you need to decide on the countries you want to apply for. This can be very expensive and, unless you are an international company, how would you know of infringements and how would you defend your patent(s) against those infringements in another country? 
Many people often lodge patent applications when a design registration may have been more appropiate and a lot cheaper. Designs can also be circumvented by rivals and there still remains the issue of the cost of defending an infringement.  
Many people also think that you have to patent a new product because if you don't, then someone else can do so and then stop you from going to market. This is incorrect as it comes back to prior art, if you can prove to the patent office that prior art was known before a patent was applied for, then that application would fail.  
I.P. Australia have some very basic information on their website and if you do see a patent attorney, ask about total costs. This means everything. For example, when I.P. Australia request a payment, the request is sent to the attorney who sends you a copy of the request for payment along with a request for you to forward the amount back to the attorney. The attorney will then forward the money on to I.P Australia. The next letter you get from the attorney will be a confirmation of the amount paid to I.P. Australia plus an invoice for around $400 for the attorneys work for handling the correspondence. A lot of charges like that soon mount up.

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## ringtail

Thanks for that danny. I'm pretty up on the patent thing as Ive been there before. But to start over, I have a idea for a I Phone /Android APP that I want to sell to someone or get someone to develop at no cost to me in return for a % of sales. There are plenty of companies that offer this service but I'm not keen on full disclosure with no gaurantee of IP protection.

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## Craigoss

I'm a software engineer but work in the Mining sector, I am currently doing some iphone development on the side. Generally the charge out rate for a developer is $140 pr/hr and the majority of iphone apps on the market have multiple developers working on them for several weeks. Development costs could easily top $50k, for a simple application. However in your situation, its common to charge a 50/50 split to a developer e.g. charge your application out at $1.19, which means you receive 50c per download. I work on the same principal with my mates, they supply me with the idea / function specs and I will develop it.

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## ringtail

Have you got them to market with success Craigoss ? Sounds like the sort of thing I'm after - a on the side developer. I'm not even sure if the code could be written to do what I need

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## Danny

Hi Ringtail, 
Not in my field I'm afraid. I work in new product development but way outside of your area of interest. I've used confidentiality agreements in the past but big bucks can soon erode integrity. Good luck.

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## stevoh741

looks like my farting ringtone idea not worth the money anymore......

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## ringtail

Definitley on the market already - lol

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## stevoh741

I was planning on a "ring and sniff" version......

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## ringtail

Geez that would be some software. Do I phones smell like apples ?

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## stevoh741

think we're onto somthing here...

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## ringtail

Sssshhhhhhh :Wink:

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