# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Anyone got a masons mitre jig or plans?

## boyracer

G'day.
anyone in adelaide want to lend me their  Carbatec CMT650 jig ( or similar one ) so i can fit my bench tops properly. Willing to pay a hire fee.  
Or anyone made their own and want to share plans?  
Or halfies?  If you're going to do a postformed benchtop as well. 
Just thought i'd ask. 
Cheers.

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## boyracer

As you were...
Found one.
Anyone that wants the use it, PM me (and bring a carton of sparkling ale).

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## timbahog

do you still have this jig, if so, are you willing to sell it.

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## troyww

I'm in Perth but I found an ad on Gumtree . Charges $100 and even threw in the joiner bolts . Has a huge well equipped warehouse that looks very professional and he did a great job .

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## boyracer

> do you still have this jig, if so, are you willing to sell it.

  
G'day. Where in sa are you? Not selling , but will hire it out.
Pm me. 
cheers, 
gordon .

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## timbahog

> G'day. Where in sa are you? Not selling , but will hire it out.
> Pm me. 
> cheers, 
> gordon .

  
I'd prefer to buy one, not sure how long I would need it......I've found a couple but they will not freight it.......carba-tec seems to be the go for now........overall cost will prove to be negligible, I'll have one up for sale afterwards LOL!

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## Eden

Just go to the place at thebarton and buy it  
320 ish 
get the insert for your router 30-50ish ( your router will need to have balls if your doing 50mm bamboo etc ) 
get the router 
and a few good long reach clamps to hold the jig down   
12.8 mm router bits suit this jig and you will get 4 joins per router bit on laminate ( 100mm x 12.8mm bit for 50mm surface ) 
just remember  a join needs 5-10 passes on male side then 5-10 passes on female side then the toggle bolt holes done on both sides. 
you can adjust for weird angles + or - 5 degrees by laying pieces on each other  then lining with a pen/sharp-pencil and matching with the jig when you feel confident  
or you can find a cabinet maker to do each one for approx $100 per mitre as doing it yourself will chew 2 hrs per join  
and I charge 240 smackers per miter join if I assemble and install the kitchen or $300 per join if it's just benchtop install  
PM me for contact details re join info if there are questions, 
no time wasting  :Smilie:  please , what is an hour of your time worth ? 
cheers eden

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## timbahog

> Just go to the place at thebarton and buy it  
> 320 ish 
> get the insert for your router 30-50ish ( your router will need to have balls if your doing 50mm bamboo etc ) 
> get the router 
> and a few good long reach clamps to hold the jig down   
> 12.8 mm router bits suit this jig and you will get 4 joins per router bit on laminate ( 100mm x 12.8mm bit for 50mm surface ) 
> just remember  a join needs 5-10 passes on male side then 5-10 passes on female side then the toggle bolt holes done on both sides. 
> you can adjust for weird angles + or - 5 degrees by laying pieces on each other  then lining with a pen/sharp-pencil and matching with the jig when you feel confident  
> or you can find a cabinet maker to do each one for approx $100 per mitre as doing it yourself will chew 2 hrs per join  
> ...

   
I've got the routers (about 5 last count, all very large Makita), router bits and clamps I have........I have a workshop full of tools, constructed and assembled quite a few kitchens, I have never cut the benchtop joins myself, I have made wall units, beds, cabinets, and many other things that I have forgotten about. 
not looking to waste anyones time and i wasnt aware that I was so this will be my last post on the matter........I am in contact with a feller from England who is selling Makita mason jigs for $58, having difficulty getting a price on shipping, he reckons it will be about $60 so that is far cheaper than anything here. 
"what is an hour of a persons time worth?"......well I make about $350 per hour sharpening tools........what is the enjoyment factor of doing the job myself?.........immeasurable, that is why I want to do it.

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## Eden

Timbahog 
I was meaning in regard to phone contact  "no time wasters" 
and the  cb650 jig is 200 to 230 nowdays   
I was not having a go at you ? WTF ? 
I was responding to the last posting 
""""I'd prefer to buy one, not sure how long I would need it......I've found a couple but they will not freight it.......carba-tec seems to be the go for now........overall cost will prove to be negligible, I'll have one up for sale afterwards LOL!"""" 
chill out and happy benchtopping  
eden

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## boyracer

> Just go to the place at thebarton and buy it  
> 320 ish 
> get the insert for your router 30-50ish ( your router will need to have balls if your doing 50mm bamboo etc ) 
> get the router 
> and a few good long reach clamps to hold the jig down   
> 12.8 mm router bits suit this jig and you will get 4 joins per router bit on laminate ( 100mm x 12.8mm bit for 50mm surface ) 
> just remember  a join needs 5-10 passes on male side then 5-10 passes on female side then the toggle bolt holes done on both sides. 
> you can adjust for weird angles + or - 5 degrees by laying pieces on each other  then lining with a pen/sharp-pencil and matching with the jig when you feel confident  
> or you can find a cabinet maker to do each one for approx $100 per mitre as doing it yourself will chew 2 hrs per join  
> ...

   
^^^^^Jeez mate, get a banner ad.... 
Timbahog if you have the tools, i have the jig here in Unley. I got it from an old boy locally who was closing up his 'shop. 
Maybe we could copy it if your keen on owning one?

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## Eden

I don,t want a banner add and I dont advertise myself at the base of my thread  and I get 90% of my work from bunnings installing complete kitchens so benchtop joins with out the kitchen are a pain. but I still try to help if it is needed, so be it!  
I sub out as many of the joins as possible to a cabinet maker I trust and give repeat work to due to his quality,  to do them manually takes 2.5 - 3hrs to get them perfect depending on the product I am mitering. 
It is dusty and I avoid getting router fines all through the yard and house I am at. 
You spend most of that time wearing a dust mask with foggy safety glasses (damn dust masks) and trying to be neat with a 2.5 horse router. 
Instead of assuming I am fishing for work how about either of you get good at them and Ill pay to get between 2 and 5 mitres a week done  (money in your pocket) on a fairly regular basis  
I pay 115 per mitre  and 45 per butt join through my cabinet maker 
I also pay an extra 40 to get the sink cutouts made into 2 chopping boards that I supply the matching edging for,, I give 1 or 2 to the client as a gift at the end ( 2 if they are nice ) 
assume away  
eden

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## Eden

> well I make about $350 per hour sharpening tools...

  Or you could work for 1 hour and buy the jig/template ?  
I only make 60-70hr and I still bought one ?

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## Eden

Or you can come and see one done tomorrow, start to finnish (tuesday) and copy the template if you wish or you can do the join if you want to take responsibility for two benchtops. 
food for thought ?

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## boyracer

Who got out of the grumpy side of the bed this morning? I was only joking about the banner...
Kudos to you Eden for offering your expert advice and financial transparency to us on the forum. I learn something every time i come on here.  
I missed the bit about $350 p.hr... no wonder it cost so bloody much to sharpen my tungsten saw blades!  :Wink 1:

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## Uncle Bob

> I give 1 or 2 to the client as a gift at the end ( 2 if they are nice )

  Nice touch Eden  :2thumbsup:

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> ,  to do them manually takes 2.5 - 3hrs to get them perfect depending on the product I am mitering. 
> It is dusty and I avoid getting router fines all through the yard and house I am at.

  It only takes around 15-20 minutes to do the male and female masons mitres! Here is a video of the female part female mitre worktop cut with router and jig - YouTube

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## arms

> It only takes around 15-20 minutes to do the male and female masons mitres! Here is a video of the female part female mitre worktop cut with router and jig - YouTube

  yeah  I might buy a set myself if that's the going rate for joins ,

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## Eden

Yeah  It is more like 1.5 hrs by the time I set Up air ( compressor ) and change shoes (take off crocks) and set up saw horses on a semi stable and level area and as it was raining I had a 14 meter walk through the house with 2.4m blanks and and and  
it is still a pain in the but with dust ( router fines ) 
anyhow here is the  final product with jig shot for  the record 
Eden   :Smilie:

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## Eden

> yeah  I might buy a set myself if that's the going rate for joins ,

  the set up is the factor and the clean up and dust mask etc clothes change and that includes jocks also , I aint working in jock filled scratchy bits  
then rain (its onsite) or do you cut loose inside the house  
I charge $320 normally  and throw in any butt joins if needed      
I am so itching to order one of your kitchens  Arms 
the Kaboodle range of laundry cabinets is going the Ikea way so I wont install that either in the future and there will be some laundry stuff I would like to order , do you do this sort of stuff Arms ?   
eden

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## Eden

> Who got out of the grumpy side of the bed this morning? I was only joking about the banner...
> Kudos to you Eden for offering your expert advice and financial transparency to us on the forum. I learn something every time i come on here.  
> I missed the bit about $350 p.hr... no wonder it cost so bloody much to sharpen my tungsten saw blades!

   
Yes I did get out of the wrong side of the bed,,,sorry ! 
I Get 5% on my trade  account and  a little more off kitchens and try to be transparent on the forum ( re slagging off Ikea ) as I get most of my work from the green shed but I feel my views could benefit all !   
I will build my own when I semi -retire in 3 or 4 years and do it all supervised well but for now I work with the stuff  that gives me the least greif ! 
eden    boyracer ,,,,, Ill shout you a beer one friday (for being such a grumpy @@@@ ) when it gets less hectic !

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> Yeah  It is more like 1.5 hrs by the time I set Up air ( compressor ) and change shoes (take off crocks) and set up saw horses on a semi stable and level area and as it was raining I had a 14 meter walk through the house with 2.4m blanks and and and  
> it is still a pain in the but with dust ( router fines ) 
> anyhow here is the  final product with jig shot for  the record 
> Eden

  It might take you 1.5hours but it only takes me 15-20minutes. It really depends on how well you are set up! 
With a lot of routers these days dust isn't an issue, you just hook the router up to a vacuum cleaner and away you go!

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## arms

> the set up is the factor and the clean up and dust mask etc clothes change and that includes jocks also , I aint working in jock filled scratchy bits  
> then rain (its onsite) or do you cut loose inside the house  
> I charge $320 normally  and throw in any butt joins if needed      
> I am so itching to order one of your kitchens  Arms 
> the Kaboodle range of laundry cabinets is going the Ikea way so I wont install that either in the future and there will be some laundry stuff I would like to order , do you do this sort of stuff Arms ?   
> eden

  open to anything , give me a ring .bunnings kitchens have their place but are really only good for the customer who cant plan ahead ,case in point is on the first picture it clearly shows how poorly thought out the kitchen is ,i.e huge fill on the base cabinets ,wall cabinets finishing short of the wall, but what the hell each to their own  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## boyracer

> Yes I did get out of the wrong side of the bed,,,sorry ! 
> I Get 5% on my trade  account and  a little more off kitchens and try to be transparent on the forum ( re slagging off Ikea ) as I get most of my work from the green shed but I feel my views could benefit all !   
> I will build my own when I semi -retire in 3 or 4 years and do it all supervised well but for now I work with the stuff  that gives me the least greif ! 
> eden    boyracer ,,,,, Ill shout you a beer one friday (for being such a grumpy @@@@ ) when it gets less hectic !

  Ha! No worries old chum. 
 I thought the 1.5 hours might be setting up all those bloody pegs in the carbatec jig, but you use yours like i do with eyeometer and clamps. 
That fill shoulda been a wine bottle rack... upsell and use all your offcuts!

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## Eden

The infill was 124mm and a they did not even order an end panel as you can see ( it saved them a few bucks and looking at this kills me even while I was doing it) the smallest carcass in the kaboodle range is 150mm as is the wine rack and Im not manufacturing stuff if Im not getting paid for it. 
The top right missing wall end panel was due to the client wanting the rangehood smack on over the cooktop and was on the plan that way (it irks me to look at it also but I just install to the plan) and I can only work with what is supplied ! I even had to 1/2 a wall end panel and use 1/2 either side of the oven as there was even 1 end panel not delivered that was supposed to be there ( the usual! ) 
Also the 450mm 4 drawer carcass was on the left of the oven and I had to swap it with the 450mm carcass on the right of the dishwasher due to dumb planning 
The skirting was 230 high so there was another thing to play about with ("the room is empty and there is nothing needing doing before install") and to put back when finished, I have already removed it from the oven wall and still yet to trim it next to the horrible looking infill. 
There is also no power point for the dishwasher but hey , nothing new 
eden

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## Eden

> It might take you 1.5hours but it only takes me 15-20minutes. It really depends on how well you are set up! 
> With a lot of routers these days dust isn't an issue, you just hook the router up to a vacuum cleaner and away you go!

  
I am only working out of my "A" frame trailer and the ute area of the triton twin cab (small) 
I dont have any where at home to work so Im not keen on carrying a big vac just for the odd bench join. 
I just about need a sunroof to get out my car once im in the driveway  :Smilie:   
I also do the floor tiling/floating flooring and splashback tiling if needed so have all that gear as well that im carrying around also.  
If you can set up the saw horses then get the gear out then do both sides of the mitre then the 6 toggle bolt holes then put all the gear away and be done in 20 mins "on site" you are a flipping legend mate.  
eden

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## arms

> The infill was 124mm and a they did not even order an end panel as you can see ( it saved them a few bucks and looking at this kills me even while I was doing it) the smallest carcass in the kaboodle range is 150mm as is the wine rack and Im not manufacturing stuff if Im not getting paid for it. 
> The top right missing wall end panel was due to the client wanting the rangehood smack on over the cooktop and was on the plan that way (it irks me to look at it also but I just install to the plan) and I can only work with what is supplied ! I even had to 1/2 a wall end panel and use 1/2 either side of the oven as there was even 1 end panel not delivered that was supposed to be there ( the usual! ) 
> Also the 450mm 4 drawer carcass was on the left of the oven and I had to swap it with the 450mm carcass on the right of the dishwasher due to dumb planning 
> The skirting was 230 high so there was another thing to play about with ("the room is empty and there is nothing needing doing before install") and to put back when finished, I have already removed it from the oven wall and still yet to trim it next to the horrible looking infill. 
> There is also no power point for the dishwasher but hey , nothing new 
> eden

   I used to do the chinese crap and would spend sometimes over an hour telling the customer they needed more parts ,most told me that that cant be right the supplier would have given me all the parts and I obviously didn't know how to install.

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## Pitto

> It might take you 1.5hours but it only takes me 15-20minutes. It really depends on how well you are set up! 
> With a lot of routers these days dust isn't an issue, you just hook the router up to a vacuum cleaner and away you go!

  yep, my vac is the first thing to come off the truck, and the last to go back on. 
as much as i hate the POS, the festool OF1400 is good for dust collection. and the makita tracksaw, and now the 18v LXT battery planer work well with the vac as well. so dust isnt really a problem. 
there is a couple of benchtop companies on the gold coast who still use the mason mitre and handheld router method of joining tops.  
as far as price goes, fitting benchtops Vs the economic outlay of a stuffup Vs the skill involved in fitting it correctly, its pretty cheap. unfortunately people watch the home DIY shows and think its a quick and easy process. 
Dont always beleive what you see on TV, take the moon landing for instance.  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

> "what is an hour of a persons time worth?"......well I make about $350 per hour sharpening tools........what is the enjoyment factor of doing the job myself?.........immeasurable, that is why I want to do it.

  What are you sharpening for $350 per hour ?

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## shauck

> What are you sharpening for $350 per hour ?

  Probably high volume.

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## ringtail

Still, that's a lot of chisels to sharpen in an hour  :Tongue:

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## arms

> Still, that's a lot of chisels to sharpen in an hour

  maybe he does really really big chisels  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Or maybe he is a dentist  :Tongue:

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## Gaza

> Still, that's a lot of chisels to sharpen in an hour

  No self respecting tradesmen would pay to get there chisels sharpened

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## Eden

Might be sharpening a crowbar to pry his wallet open ?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## ringtail

> No self respecting tradesmen would pay to get there chisels sharpened

  
Totally agree. It's the "tradesmen" that are coming through now that need a hand :Biggrin:

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## boyracer

> Totally agree. It's the "tradesmen" that are coming through now that need a hand

  ouch.          
too true though.

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## shauck

> Totally agree. It's the "tradesmen" that are coming through now that need a hand

  Ok. I'll own up. I once went out and bought a new chisel as I couldn't be bothered sharpening the ones I had. Can never have too many chisels. I'd be happy to pass the job on, as long as they did it well.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> No self respecting tradesmen would pay to get there chisels sharpened

  What you guys forget is that we actually make more money working on customers jobs than sharpening chisels!! 
I own a grinding wheel but still choose to send all my stuff out to be sharpened by a professional. Don't get me wrong if all it needs is a hone then I do it myself but every once in a while it needs a really good fresh grind. Each week I would send out 4-5 saw blades, 3-4 router bits and hole saws to be sharpened. Why wouldn't I also send out a chisel??  
I could do them myself if I chose too but I am far to busy and as I said I make more money working on jobs that sharpening!

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## shauck

> What you guys forget is that we actually make more money working on customers jobs than sharpening chisels!! 
> I own a grinding wheel but still choose to send all my stuff out to be sharpened by a professional. Don't get me wrong if all it needs is a hone then I do it myself but every once in a while it needs a really good fresh grind. Each week I would send out 4-5 saw blades, 3-4 router bits and hole saws to be sharpened. Why wouldn't I also send out a chisel??  
> I could do them myself if I chose too but I am far to busy and as I said I make more money working on jobs that sharpening!

  I'm on your side. Although I do have enough down time to sharpen chisels. It's like mowing the lawn, something to avoid.

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## ringtail

I guess with a decent sized production business it makes perfect sense to 1. sharpen things instead of replacing them and 2. subbing the job out. For most builders or chippies however it just doesn't happen. Drill bits and chisels get sharpened on the weekend or at night and saws get chucked in the bin or kept as a gyprock cutter. Circular saw blades are cheaper to replace than sharpen so what's the point. Specialty blades are different of course as is grandpa's vintage panel or rip saw. I prefer to keep everything in house as much as possible.

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## Eden

unless im earning  a lot more than 60/ hour I sharpen them as I go and take care of my tools  
but when it takes me 2 mins to use a stone as I was taught at school to touch up a chisel Im not paying someone to do them  
and If they are making $350/hr  and to scabby to buy a jig worth $230  but still waste the time chasing one from England and all the toing  and froing involved 
Quote
"""I am in contact with a feller from England who is selling Makita mason jigs for $58, having difficulty getting a price on shipping, he reckons it will be about $60 so that is far cheaper than anything here.""" 
I get my accounting done by another as it is not time efficient for me  
If someone makes 350/hr sharpening  tools Im glad that  I take care of my tools and  on the rare occasion they need a touch up it only takes a min or two 
everyone to their own    :Smilie:  
eden

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## ringtail

Yep we'll, without wanting to get into the who earns what thing, $350 /hr is about what dentists and other medical specialists charge so I highly doubt the validity of this claim.

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## CuttingEdgeKitchens

> Yep we'll, without wanting to get into the who earns what thing, $350 /hr is about what dentists and other medical specialists charge so I highly doubt the validity of this claim.

  I totally agree! 
Most DIY wood workers would sharpen there own chisels but its totally different for a business!

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## terminal_stance

Maybe chisel sharpening and mowing the lawn should come under the same category as tea leaves? 
Some people just enjoy the process - shelves are full of tea bags but the humble tea pot is here to stay.

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## shauck

> Maybe chisel sharpening and mowing the lawn should come under the same category as tea leaves? 
> Some people just enjoy the process - shelves are full of tea bags but the humble tea pot is here to stay.

  Very true.

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## snowyskiesau

At the risk of straying back on topic  :Smilie:  Does anyone _have_ plans or measurements for a masons mitre jig? 
I built one from these plans when I built my desk but the result were not great (my fault).
I figure if I could get some measurements/plans I could make one on my CNC router.

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## boyracer

> At the risk of straying back on topic  Does anyone _have_ plans or measurements for a masons mitre jig? 
> I built one from these plans when I built my desk but the result were not great (my fault).
> I figure if I could get some measurements/plans I could make one on my CNC router.

  ^^^ so, you're a teacher too?
Those plans set it out pretty well ....in french.
what went wrong? 
I used mine to mitre all my skirting to 'traves as well.

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## Eden

You have a CNC router and cannot set it to do a masons mitre? 
doesnt it come with a disc with that sort of thing on it? 
couldnt you get the x-y coordinates from someone to do it ??? 
is it not programmable ? 
what about drawing the line and mapping it ? 
sorry if I am being ignorant.  
not trying to be rude or the such 
eden

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## Eden

> ^^^ so, you're a teacher too?
> Those plans set it out pretty well ....in french.
> what went wrong? 
> I used mine to mitre all my skirting to 'traves as well.

  
please excuse my ignorance (french) once again 
but why do skirts and architraves with a masons mitre? 
I will be knocking up a U shaped bench layout  this week  with the left bench being a 900 brekkie bar bench 
the cb 650 lets you do 90 or 45  degree  joins and has  allowance for  different bench depths 
and you will spend how many hours making one  
they cost 220ish - 230ish and even $200 in the right places   
buy it    
then copy it if you must or make one out of ally and I will buy it from you 
they still bend under the weight of a big router and  change the cut ( .25mm counts to the eye ) with bakelite or the laminated type!!!!  
eden

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## boyracer

^^why do dogs lick their privates?
'cause they can.  
In the frenchie version they're using a ~20mm roller cutter on ~40 mm bench.
i just use a 50mm cutter and one pass.   
i'll probably have to send it off to the sharpeners soon....

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## snowyskiesau

> You have a CNC router and cannot set it to do a masons mitre? 
> doesnt it come with a disc with that sort of thing on it? 
> couldnt you get the x-y coordinates from someone to do it ??? 
> is it not programmable ? 
> what about drawing the line and mapping it ? 
> sorry if I am being ignorant.  
> not trying to be rude or the such 
> eden

  Of course it can be progammed to cut any shape but as a start , you need measurments.
Spacing/size  of holes, distance from slot, etc, etc. The same as with planning any job.

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## Eden

Im not sure  exactly how the set up works but can you load the cnc with a sharp pointed bit  and map the x and y coordinates as you manually mimic the cut line  
then it is the same cut for the female as the male cutouts , theoretically? 
just trying to get my head round the idea,   
eden

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## arms

> Im not sure  exactly how the set up works but can you load the cnc with a sharp pointed bit  and map the x and y coordinates as you manually mimic the cut line  
> then it is the same cut for the female as the male cutouts , theoretically? 
> just trying to get my head round the idea,   
> eden

  that's right ,you can plot it after firstly knowing your start point on the x and y axis then simply work out incrementally where your points of reference are to determine your route

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