# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  Dumb question - how do I find my internal metal studs?

## Mick666

Hi all, 
I've done some searching but this may be such a simple question that it has not been asked. I live in a steel framed house and need an easy "fail safe" way to locate internal studs. I have previously purchased 2 (one cheap and one a lot more expensive) stud finders, both of which hit a stud about 25% of the time. And I followed the instructions as precisely as they were written. 
Yesterday I had a revelation and thought a magnet would be my saviour - so when I got home from work I grabbed a couple of old bass guitar pickups that I use as knife magnets on my fridge and started to scan over the walls expecting them to lock on the studs (they're whopping big magnets)...to my disappointment the only place they grabbed was the edges where the external angle was used by the plasterers. Are metal studs not really steel or do they coat them with something that means they don't attract a magnet (my magnet didn't stick to my stainless sink or my stainless cooktop?) 
Anyone got any tips on an easy way to find the studs? I've done plenty of knocking (and missing) as I've hung quite a few things in my house but I'm about to hang a new plasma and I really don't want it coming down.   
Many thanks
Mick

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## SilentButDeadly

There are plenty of products that you can use to hang a plasma frame that don't rely on hitting a stud.  The Ramset Wall Mates in particular as one of the range has a 20kg rating per fitting. Use four of them and the screen will go nowhere...

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## Mick666

Hi SBD, 
all due respect but I'm not so sure about that...from the Ramset website
"The WallMateTM will hold up to 10kg in plasterboard." 
I guess I'd feel a little more comfortable with the security knowing I'm in the stud. 
But thanks a lot for the option. 
Cheers
Mick

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## Chumley

G'day Mick, 
Can you get up above the ceiling and look down through the cavity - if you can there should be enough of an angle to work out roughly where they are.  If you can get your hands near a stud you can try pushing a pin through the gyprock.  I use this method to locate ceiling beams/rafters/whatever they're called. 
Cheers,
Adam

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## Mick666

Hi Adam, 
afraid I can't get to the cavity - I suppose a pin will work but I was hoping there may be a tradie secret for locating metal studs...but thanks for the tip. Appreciate your help. 
Cheers
Mick

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## rod1949

Its very simple.  You tap/knock along the wall with you hand or hammer moving along from the drummy/hollow sound to the solid sound which will only be very short distance.  Then using a nail (I use a 40mm) hammer the nail into the plasterboard until you hit the steel stud then pull the nail out and working out from either side of the initial strick in small incraments hammer the nail in and remove until you feel it slip off the edge of the steel stud, this way you will get the width of the stud and if yours are like mine they'll be 30mm wide.  Its best to do this so that whatever you're fixing to the wall will cover the nail holes.

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## Bedford

Try this, get a mobile phone in vibration mode (get someone to ring it) and slide it across the wall, you should be able to find the stud by the difference in the sound.

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## Gaza

work out where tv is going get a 3mm drill bit and start to drill holes into wall till you find stud. 
tv will cover extra holes.

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## sundancewfs

Some stud sensors have a metal function too. Mine does metal, wood, and electrical
Or otherwise use a rare earth magnet (of a decent size) it should be attracted to the metal stud by sliding it across the wall.

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## Bloss

> Some stud sensors have a metal function too. Mine does metal, wood, and electrical
> Or otherwise use a rare earth magnet (of a decent size) it should be attracted to the metal stud by sliding it across the wall.

  Most in fact - and they under $20. But it is also easy to simply find the centre of where you like to have the TV mounted then starting at that point use the hearing tap with even you hand and you can find roughly where the noise changes and then use hammer & a 1.8mm diameter nail and simply start along a line and tap it in every 5mm or so - it'll go through the plaster until you hit a stud. The holes can stay there behind the TV or once you have the studs marked the mounting points you can fill them.

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## Mick666

hey all, 
thanks for all the options - seems like the tap and listen is the preferred solution for most in the trade - thouight there may be a technique a little more stupid proof. I'm certainly going to try the phone and I saw someone sliding an electric razor across a wall on the net last night so I might give that a whirl as well.  
Hey sandancewfs what is an rare earth magnet?  
Thanks again all - I appreciate the advice immensely. 
Cheers
Mick

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## sundancewfs

Rare earth magnets are the small, extremely strong! magnets usually made from neodymium, iron and boron or nib for short. I usually pull them out of old hard drives. and one of those will attract another right through your hand. place one magnet on your open palm and the other on the back of your hand and they will stay there no matter which way up your hand is, so finding a steel stud under 10mm of plasterboard would be a doddle. I think you can by them from some hardware stores or places like Carbatec or online. Magnets - AMF Magnetics - Rare Earth Magnets
The reason your bass guitar pickup didn't work was because the magnets in a pickup are usually alnico type (which, pound for pound, have nowhere near the field strength of a rare earth magnet) Also most of the weight in a pickup is the copper wire coil and the magnets are in fact quite small. You could possibly try a large speaker magnet. as a large alnico magnet has quite a large field of influence too.

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## ScroozAdmin

You need a cavity fixing with a clamping action behind the board so I'd just use a hollow wall anchor, you'll get around 40kg out of a 5mm version. Wouldn't bother searching for a metal stud tbh, anything over that weight will destroy the anchor anyway so its irrelevant whether its in the board or a metal stud.

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## Mick666

hey sundance, 
those rare earth magnets sound like they may come in handy so I'll think I'll pick one up - I actually have an old pc sitting in my garage at the moment awaiting the next bin day so I wonder if there is a magnet in there I can salvage before it becomes tip bound?   
hey scruffydoo, 
I guess you are strongly affiliated with scrooz which is totally fine by me but, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say   

> anything over that weight will destroy the anchor

   Unless the clamping anchors were the size of an open umbrella behind the plasterboard I don't think I could let my 2yr within 5metres of the tv for fear of it falling on him. Not that I'm not open to being persuaded to an easier BUT, just as safe and secure method as stud fixings...in fact, bring it on.  
Thanks for the help, I really appreciate everyone lending me their expertise/experience. 
Beers
Mick

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## ScroozAdmin

> hey scruffydoo, 
> I guess you are strongly affiliated with scrooz which is totally fine by me

  you could say that, don't worry I'm giving you some free advice not trying to flog you anything  :Smilie:    

> I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say  
> Quote:
>                                   anything over that weight will destroy the anchor

  it means most approved fixings have a max pull out and shear load which is the point the fixing failed under testing, it doesn't always mean it pulled out of the wall or through the board, more often than not the internal screw thread gives way and/or anchor falls to bits internally, this failure load is the 'ultimate load' and the manufacturer then uses (or should use) a safety factor, usually 3, to arrive at a recommended load.  So if you exceed the 'ultimate' whether its in a board or a stud it will still drop to bits.   

> Unless the clamping anchors were the size of an open umbrella behind the  plasterboard I don't think I could let my 2yr within 5metres of the tv  for fear of it falling on him.

  you should probably get the pros to hang it if you've that kind of safety concern.

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## Mick666

Hey scruffy,   

> don't worry I'm giving you some free advice not trying to flog you  anything

   - happy to be flogged anything that makes the job easier :2thumbsup: . I like to have a crack (like most around here) so  I'll almost certainly over engineer the fixings and leave the minimum spec type stuff to tradies with better insurance coverage. I've done plenty of more complex jobs about the place so it's more just a case of having all the info before I plough in. Thanks for the info all the same.  
Hey sundance I managed to grab those rare earth magnets out of my old hard drive - they are great little things. Small as they are they are super strong - not quite strong enough to stick to the stud but there is a definite grab at the stud point (so I can push a nail/pin through to find the edges). Thanks for the tip because I just assumed the studs were coated with something that meant magnets just wouldn't stick to them - I was wrong clearly.  
Thanks everyone who replied - still if anyone comes up with or remembers some other method please feel free to leave it as you can never know too much. 
Beers
Mick

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## phs

try a proper magnet not a guitar pick up at work we have stud finders with 2 small magnets and they work fine finding studs even throught double plastered fire rated walls. 
i think the wieght of you huge magnet is the down fall to it not working 
go to your local hard wear store get some steel stud take it to some where that sells magnets and see which one works the best. 
i see magnet stud finders all the time, and they all work fine, your local hardwear store should have them. if not try an electrical supplier

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## Earlybird

Continuing with the magnet idea, I haven't tried this myself, but the magnets inside a harddisk drive are very strong for their size/weight.  If you go to a local computer repair shop they might have a faulty disk or two that you could rip the magnets out of.  Just watch your fingers if you put them too close together.  I use one to hold open the steel-framed timber driveway gate - no problems on windy days. 
Cheers,
John

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## DvdHntr

Correct me if I'm wrong but he will only be able to get two screws in the metal stud and the bracket will have four. I would use the little white threaded anchors they sell at Bunnings. I think they are called wallmates. You screw them through the plasterboard, then screw into them. Just some advice that using a small nail to "pre drill" the hole before using the anchor is a good idea. 
The only other way is to fix a backing board from one stud to another then fix the TV plate to it, but by this time you will be along way from the wall.

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## sundancewfs

Great to hear you found those magnets Mick666
They are also good for finding studs in a timber stud house too, as the magnets will "find" the screw heads of the plasterboard screws

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