# Forum Home Renovation Retaining Walls  steps in retaining wall

## gemi_babe

Does anyone here have knowledge on how to go about putting steps into the retaining wall? 
 How steep, not so steep should they be? 
 I'm using a product called 'garden wall' (please oh please don't say DON"T)
 from midland brick.   garden wall 
 The picture is pretty much what I want to do, but have no idea how to go about it...

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## namtrak

Steps are relatively straight forward.  To give accurate advice you probably need to provide a bit more info.  What height is your retaining wall, what sort of soil is it being built on, what type of materials are you looking at, do you have a design for what your after?  i.e Do you want the walls either side of the steps to be parallel or shaped (curving or trapezium) etc. 
I did a quick search for the ratio of the step ( the step   :Rolleyes:  ) to the riser (the height of the step) - I think it is 1.6 to 1 but I'm not sure, and found this guide for installing steps (be warned though it does stipulate it is for NZ gardens so there maybe a sheep ramp there somewhere)  How to make steps  
Essential tools are esky, shovel, string line, 4 or 5 pegs, level. 
After you've figured out what design your after, you need to rough out the steps (shovel out the rough shape you want) 
After you've roughed out the steps you need to use the esky to refresh yourself and sit on. 
Once you've come back to the job ( a day or so later), you need to get your first step in.  Now you can have this either proud of the retaining wall, level with the retaining wall or indented into the retaining wall - all a matter of taste really. 
The link gives you the run down on getting the steps constructed however my two tidbits are: 
Make sure your first step is level, even and built on a good footing (everything else flows from that) 
You can check how your steps are progressing by a) using them b) standing about 6 feet back from the top of the steps(depends on how tall you are) and looking down the steps.  The corner of each step should line up so they all 'disappear' from view at the same time - does that make sense?  This tells you that the stairs are all even with each other (go check some stairs out to get the idea) 
Anyway, there's a start.   
Cheers

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## Eastie

For steps that most people can handle the following dimensions are normally used: risers should be no less than 150mm and no greater than 215mmeach going should be no less than 215mm and no greater than 305mm (unless it's an intermediate landing)Better steps have a tread overlap of 10mm or soThe slope of steps should be between 26.5 and 45 degrees.These are usability orientated.

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## simon c

gemi 
If you are used gardenwall to build the steps like in the diagram, then your dimeniosn will be largely set by the product you use. 
In their diagram they appear to be using their standard blocks for the riser and then a slab for the tread. The rise will then be the height of the standard block plus the height of the slab and the going will be the depth of the slab. 
Fo a simple construction, you should try and stick to whatever their product size is otherwise you will be cutting blocks. 
Simon

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## vsquizz

Gemi, they go up :Biggrin:  ...but what Simon said.  There is about a dozen different types of steps/styles you can build.  The size of the steps is dictated by the stones/bricks you are using.  Our standard limestones use 1 m wide x 175 high by 350 tread limestone "splits" as we call them.  The second step overlays the first one by 50 mm and is 20 mm higher for the mud/mortar and so on.  Therefore the riser is 195 mm and the tread is 300 mm. 
We buld the sides (ramparts), set the bottom step level and mark out the steps on the inside of the sides.  The width of the steps is dictated by the width of the stones or mutiples there of.  Work out the height of your riser and at what height you want the last tread (top step).  Then you can divide the total rise by the riser to get the number of steps. 
However you go about doing it, don't rush it and make sure the ground is well compacted.  Use plenty of water if its sandy. 
As I said there is lots of different ways of doing it and it can seem very confusing.  Once you get going its not so hard.  Just make sure you select what style you want well beforehand. 
Cheers

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## gemi_babe

Thanks guys  :Smilie:  
 First time I've ever jumped online before 10am. We have some early birds here :Tongue:  
 Have printed out all the info in this thread and will be trying to get my head around it later in the day LOL 
 Thanks again,
 Kylie

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## gemi_babe

Namtrak the diagram is exactly what I am trying to build. 
 The soil is gravel!
 so no need for 'road base' for drainage. 
 This is all getting done before I lay the limestone for compaction... so the first layer of bricks/retainers will be submerged once the limestone goes down. 
 Another question... when I do compact the limestone will it still be pourous? And if I add cement to it and compact will it be pourous?
 If it isn't going to be pourous I am going to have to create a run off for the water and install some drains.

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## namtrak

If your talking about the steps, then it shouldn't matter.  Most water will run across the top of the steps.  If your talking about the retaining wall then you will need some ag pipe and gravel along the base of the wall at the back of it. 
The pictured steps are straightforward.  Just set your footings (the compacted limestone bit) as if your building one long wall.   
With the cappers you have on top of your brick steps, you will need to cement them down.  You can use liquid nails for this, but I prefer a mud mix (brickies sand and concrete about 4:1 and enough water to make it sticky).  Be careful not crack them when laying them as they can crack easily. 
Does that make sense? 
Cheers

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## vsquizz

Gemi, the crushed limestone base will always be porous unless you put cement on the top. 
A retaining wall built with those Midland Brick thingys does not need drainage behind the wall in our soils.  If its over a metre high or in clays then follow the midland brick guidlines. 
Cheers

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## namtrak

You wouldn't still put agpipe behind the wall anyway?  I would have thought the aggie would give the water somewhere to go.  Regardless of how porous the soils are, wouldn't water still make it's way through the wall?  Or does the water just drain straight down?

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## vsquizz

Namtrak, with these link together bricks they drain well (in most WA soils).  You can't drain away what is not there.  You can put all the agpipe in you like it will do nothing but destabilize the wall.   
However, if the area is subject to run off from a roof , driveway, paving etc you can do one of two things;  Put in some agpipe or run the water over the face depending on the wall type.  I have just finished a one metre wall under the eaves of a new house and the *&$!!head builder put a soakwell in next to the slab and thus behind the wall.  We offered to put drainage from the soakwell under the wall but the council insisted the soakwell be shifted away from the house (at builders expense).  We had the engineer inspect the 2 metre high wall further down the front yard - No drainage required in sand was the ruling. 
Thousands of retaining walls are built in WA every year and very few ever have drainage behind them.  WA holds water like a seive. 
Cheers

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## gemi_babe

Thanks vsquizz.  :Smilie:  
 Namtrak where I live, its all gravel... not one bit of decent soil around... I have to make my own garden beds by building them up and buying in soil. 
 Thanks for the tips on the capping.  :Smilie:

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## ozwinner

> Gemi, they go up ...

  In the East, they go down. :confused:  
Al :confused:

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## namtrak

Live and Learn!!  It would make my life a lot easier not having to worry about agpipe and drainage..

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## tcns

It does say you need ag pipe in the doco (at least it does in the boral one I have here - midland is part of them), but if you guys are happy to skip it
due to your soilds the I guess it is up to you. 
Tom

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## vsquizz

Nobody said you don't need drainage in retaining walls fullstop:   

> A retaining wall built with those Midland Brick thingys does not need drainage behind the wall in our soils. If its over a metre high or in clays then follow the midland brick guidlines.

  If the soil is permanently sodden at anytime of the year drainage will be required.  In WA coastal and wheatbelt sands...well next time your at the beach, go above the high tide mark and take a wee (try not to get arrested) and you'll see what I mean.  The moisture from rain will travel down through the sand regardless of the wall.  It will not run horizontally unless there is substrate like clay etc. 
Runoff from driveways or paved areas needs to be considered but that is a matter of conveying to the sand, its still not going to "build up" behind the wall - no matter what, if there is no substrate. 
Cheers

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## Kris.Parker1

Try this site, has some great ideas and patterns for you to work with.  http://www.signaturelandscapes.com/retainer_walls.htm

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## gemi_babe

Ok here are some pic's of the work so far... 
 What do you think?

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## gemi_babe

Another one  :Smilie:

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## gemi_babe

And last one

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## namtrak

Looks great - one small step for mankind one giant leap for a woodworker!! 
Only sandy soil?  That's like a red loam? 
Cheers

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## gemi_babe

Namtrak its gravel. 
 It looks very different in the pictures. 
 You can't pick up a handful of just sand, its full of pea-gravel stuff. 
 Want me to send you some?  :Biggrin:  
 This stuff is very dangerous to walk on. I have slipped over so many times. I can't wait to get the limestone down!

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## bitingmidge

For once here's a project that looks like a lot of effort has gone into creating the result! 
I want to see photos in a year from now, with lush green lawns, shady fruit trees and flowering borders! 
Well done to get it thus far! 
Cheers, 
P

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## ozwinner

Dont wish to rain on your parade, but them there steps look awfully dangerous. 
I doudt whether they would be legal, its the fronts that are cut back at 45 ( insert degree thingy here ) that are not right. 
Al  :Frown:

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## bitingmidge

Nah, 
They are garden steps in a private situation, so no legal  controls, and hey they look great! 
Wouldn't do it in a public area though! 
Cheers, 
P

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## ozwinner

_They are garden steps in a private situation, so no legal controls_ 
You sure??
I dont think so..   
But, but, but, what if some poor old bugger fell down em??  
Al :eek:

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## vsquizz

Al, you of all people should know...There aint nothing that can't be fixed with a little mud. :Biggrin:   
I amagine your travelling craporium type rag an bone man might fall down them in a state. :Rolleyes:   
Cheers

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## ozwinner

> I amagine your travelling craporium type rag an bone man might fall down them in a state.  
> Cheers

  Owhhh yes, and sue for big bucks.
Where do you live gemi_babe??
I may just wander into your yard tomorrow.... 
Al :eek:

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## gemi_babe

taking the p!$$ out of the camera angle?? :confused: 
 They have to have some pavers on top with an over hang of 20mm, its a work in progress  :Shock:

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## ozwinner

Well thats alright then. 
I thought that was the finished thing.  :Shock:   
Al  :Biggrin:

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