# Forum Home Renovation Demolition  Load Bearing?

## Selfdestruct

In a Brownstone in Boston, MA  
In process of removing a closet --- trying to figure out if any of the below is load bearing? 1 floor above

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## Uncle Bob

I think the guys will need to see what's above that wall in order to give advice.
Welcome to our (Australian based) forum by the way.

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## SilentButDeadly

Impossible to tell based on pictures alone...you need to understand the construction and layout of the floor structure immediately above, the layout of the rooms above that and he construction and layout of the roof structure...and then the transference of loads across the lot... 
...it's tempting to say it's not load bearing given your user name and the fact that you are half a world away  :Smilie:

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## Selfdestruct

Working on figuring it out. Found floor plan and on the left is the closet circled in red on the right is the floor above which indicates nothing is above it. I printed out the 2 images and lined them up and only the lowest wall matches on top of each other (which Im not touching). Hopefully this helps

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## justonething

Welcome Selfdestruct to the forum. Where is that steel bar on picture 8?

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## phild01

> Welcome Selfdestruct to the forum. Where is that steel bar on picture 8?

  I'd say it is the lamp.
According to the plan dimensions, I'd say not load bearing.  My only concern if it supports the ends of any floor joists.

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## goldie1

> I'd say it is the lamp.
> According to the plan dimensions, I'd say not load bearing.  My only concern if it supports the ends of any floor joists.

   What plan dimensions    A brownstone is what we call a terrace house so they would commonly  have bearers 
supported by the common walls  but impossible to say with out seeing  the floor  frame above

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## phild01

> What plan dimensions

  oops!  see post#3

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## toooldforthis

... sometimes things are not built as load bearing, then become load bearing over time  :Smilie:  
always have an acrow prop or two to hand is my motto

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## Selfdestruct

Going to be putting a 4 inch circular hole in the ceiling to get a camera up there

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## FrodoOne

It has been remarked elsewhere on this forum that there are now a few request for advice coming from North America - which must be some sort of compliment as to the quality of information available here. 
The question has been asked concerning a "Brownstone" building in Boston (USA) and this has been interpreted as a "Terrace House" in Australian terms.
Such a building, I submit, is usually made of masonry walls with floors which are "self supporting" (due to joists/bearers supported by the masonry walls concerned.)
(The width of the building is only 20 Feet [6096 mm]) 
I note that the construction concerned is made from timber (lumber) stamped as "FRASER KILN DRIED".  When looking up this reference, I found FraserWood: Company History which indicates that this company was founded in 1998 (in British Columbia, Canada.)
Hence, if the building concerned was built prior to 1998, it is likely that these "additional" structures have been installed since that date as "partition walls" and, therefore, are not load bearing. 
Also, I note that, on the floor above, no (partition?) wall appears to be located above any of the walls below.

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## FrodoOne

> ... sometimes things are not built as load bearing, then become load bearing over time  
> always have an acrow prop or two to hand is my motto

  Since we are getting "international" here, I thought to look up "Acrow Prop" and could find British, Australian, NZ and Chinese references - but no US references!
We know about that which we are writing - and US readers can "look it up" - but I wonder if this is just a "trade name" (like Hoover and Thermos") and perhaps there may be a more generic/international name for these supports.

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## justonething

I think they are called temporary shoring posts in the US, according to uncle G.

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## FrodoOne

> I think they are called temporary shoring posts in the US, according to uncle G.

  Thank you "justonething". I note that the key word gleaned from your explanation is "shoring".  I did not think of that word and it makes me consider how my frame of reference must be constrained by my "local" relationships. 
Quite amasing it is (to quote Yoda) when one considers that we (and the US) have a common language "divided" between such closely related cultures!

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## UseByDate

> Since we are getting "international" here, I thought to look up "Acrow Prop" and could find British, Australian, NZ and Chinese references - but no US references!
> We know about that which we are writing - and US readers can "look it up" - but I wonder if this is just a "trade name" (like Hoover and Thermos") and perhaps there may be a more generic/international name for these supports.

    Americans super size everything. Shoring Systems | Acrow Corporation of America
 We have “Acrow” props they have “Superprop Shore”
 Do you want fries with that?

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## Bloss

None of the information provided so far allows a clear answer on load-bearing or not. Given the consequences of getting this wrong I suggest the OP gets some local direct professional advice. 
Having said that and given it is a cupboard the likelihood is that it is partition walling and not load bearing, but having seen the results of wrong calls by others on that I'd be taking a cautious approach.

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## toooldforthis

> None of the information provided so far allows a clear answer on load-bearing or not. Given the consequences of getting this wrong I suggest the OP gets some local direct professional advice. 
> Having said that and given it is a cupboard the likelihood is that it is partition walling and not load bearing, but having seen the results of wrong calls by others on that I'd be taking a cautious approach.

  yup.
I had a pantry cupboard in a reno that when built wasn't load bearing but over time, 50 years, things "settled" and it became load bearing. I found out when I cut the plinth of the adjoining bench height cupboard and the sudden absence of the lateral support caused the pantry to collapse, and the ceiling to drop. I actually heard the ceiling beam crack. I had an acrow prop to hand for "just in case" when I started to pull out the pantry but the engineering gods beat me.

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## UseByDate

> Since we are getting "international" here, I thought to look up "Acrow Prop" and could find British, Australian, NZ and Chinese references - but no US references!
> We know about that which we are writing - and US readers can "look it up" - but I wonder if this is just a "trade name" (like Hoover and Thermos") and perhaps there may be a more generic/international name for these supports.

  From the internet.
 The Acrow company was named after the Acrow Prop which was named after its inventor/ designer Mr Arthur Crow in 1936.
 At it height Acrow had factories in the following countries.
 UK, South Africa, USA, Argentina, Australia, Peru, Zimbabwe (Rhodesia), Iraq, Hong Kong, India, Spain, New Zealand.
 In the early 1980's the world wide divisions were sold and are now independent of the original company.

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## UseByDate

> Thank you "justonething". I note that the key word gleaned from your explanation is "shoring".  I did not think of that word and it makes me consider how my frame of reference must be constrained by my "local" relationships. 
> Quite amasing it is (to quote Yoda) when one considers that we (and the US) have a common language "divided" between such closely related cultures!

  I an not an expert in this area but I think, at least historically, that props support vertical loads and shores resist horizontal loads. eg to shore up a wall. Of course a prop can be used at an angle to shore a vertical structure but usually with additional axillary components to stabilise it.

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## Ken-67

The dimensions of the beam and the jamb stud suggests that it may be load bearing, but an investigation in the above-ceiling area will give you a more accurate assessment.

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