# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  E27 60W candle bulbs - best substiture LED?

## aaronjthompson

I have ceiling oyster lights that each take 3 E27 60watt (max.) candle bulbs. 
I need to replace these and I am not up to date on the latest on bulb technology but gather that LEDs are best?? 
What should I get and where is the cheapest place to get them?

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## FrodoOne

> I have ceiling oyster lights that each take 3 E27 60watt (max.) candle bulbs. 
> I need to replace these and I am not up to date on the latest on bulb technology but gather that LEDs are best?? 
> What should I get and where is the cheapest place to get them?

  Are you sure that only candle shaped lamps will fit in the enclosure?
I ask this because 
a. E27 candle shaped lamps are not readily available (in Australia)
b. the light output/rating of such lamps tends to be small (About 3 W/250 lumens.) 
If they will fit, you would be better off to use something like a Philips 9.5W ($13.50 at Bunnings) which, from memory, has an output of about 800 lumens. 
However, before you do anything, please read Ban Incandescent Lamps? and, in particular, the section about halfway down headed "CFLs in Existing Luminaires."   While I realize that the discussion there is about CFLs, most of these remarks would apply almost as much to LEDs. This is because LEDs also generate heat which, if it cannot escape, may damage the power supply built into such lamps.
Hence, one should not install CFLs or LED lamps in enclosed fittings - because the heat build up may be sufficient to cause damage. 
If only candle shaped lamps will fit your existing fitting, perhaps you should consider the purchase of a new fitting designed for LEDs and which includes adequate ventilation.

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## aaronjthompson

My partner purchased these new for a renovation, so replacing all (12) of them them will not go down well... 
They do however have a heat reflecting shield above wherte each globe sits - to reflect light down and possibly protect the light fitting from heat (only glass below). 
They are flat round oyster ceiling lights and each require three E27 candle bulbs (60w max) so I assume 3 x 3W LEDs = approx.                   60W incandescent is the way to go.

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## Cuppa

We have a ceiling fan with an Oyster light underneath it. Those candle shaped globes are the only ones we’ve found that will fit. It takes two. They do get hot which although not a fire risk does significantly shorten their life, they are also not very bright - I thought they were 40w each.

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## METRIX

You can buy LED versions of the candle globes pretty much everywhere nowadays, even Bunnings sell them  Philips 3W 250L 2700K LED Candle Globe I/N 4320553 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## aaronjthompson

I went to a local (small) Bunnings They had the following all of which (including a normal sized Osram halogen bulb!) fit, I bought one of each to try, in descending order of preference:   
Osram 4W/250lm LED Star Classic P25 Warm White 79mm x 43mm $9.50   
Philips 25W/??lm Frosted Lustre Shape P45 FR 70mm x 45mm $2.21   
Osram 30W/405lm Halogen (Normal Size: 94mm x 55mm ) Classic Eco Superstar  64542 A ECO FR $2.90   
I assume the Osram 4W LED (x 3 per light) is the way to go? 12 lights x 3 bulbs x $9.50 = $342 - more than the lights cost!  
The Osram LED is cheaper and higher wattage (4 vs. 3) than the $10.90 Philips LED suggested above which looks to be E14 not E27. 
Which runs coolest - the LED? 
Just found this - looks like the way to go:  http://www.ikea.com/aa/en/catalog/products/40288066/

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## FrodoOne

> You can buy LED versions of the candle globes pretty much everywhere nowadays, even Bunnings sell them  Philips 3W 250L 2700K LED Candle Globe I/N 4320553 | Bunnings Warehouse

  Yes! However, the ones that you indicated have E14 (Small Edison Screw) bases. 
Lights of this type with E27 (Edison screw) bases are not common in Australia.  They can be found on Ebay, from China.

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## FrodoOne

> Just found this - looks like the way to go:  LEDARE LED bulb E27 - IKEA

  The output of the lamp you suggest is 200 lumens - each lamp.
You are proposing to use these to replace 60 W incandescent lamps, each of which may have an output of 600 lumens. 
So, you may be disappointed with the results!

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## notvery

I replaced one blown bulb with an led bulb leaving an existing bulb in the same room. I now have 2 different bulbs which is a bit strange. The led light is different to the previous light. I know its all about lumens and stuff but i think im getting as good a light from the new bulb from less lumens. i think its the difference in type of light and the way the led is not hitting the shade etc. i dont really know but from my first experiment with LED bulbs im getting the feeling that it might not be so easy as to just go off the technical data to get the desired results  i think there needs to be a bit of trying to see how the light works with the shade etc. which is a bit annoying at $10+ a go.

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## phild01

> The led light is different to the previous light. I know its all about lumens and stuff but i think im getting as good a light from the new bulb from less lumens.

   Also keep in mind the colour temperature,  2700K will be more like an incandescent, higher values go to daylight and beyond.

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## notvery

Sorry but WTF is Colour temperature... i cant even be bothered googleing that one. so whats beyond daylight?? Retinal burn? 
Ok i just googled it... i read a bit then my brain started hurting and i gave up. im not that much wiser but i saw a table that made some sense.

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## aaronjthompson

I know how you feel - I must be getting old and out of it technologically speaking - there was  a time when I thought changing light bulbs was an easy job  :Smilie:  
As I have 36 bulbs to get I will be buying different bulbs to test for light and heat characteristics - sucking it to see is easier than understanding the techno-babble.

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## FrodoOne

> Which runs coolest - the LED?

  Further to your comment concerning the LED running coolest: - 
It has been said that Incandescent Lamps produce heat with some light, whereas LEDs produce light with some heat! 
Incandescent lamps are designed to run hot and precautions must be taken to prevent damage to the fittings associated with them. 
However, LEDs still produce some heat. If this heat cannot be dissipated, damage to certain components in the switch mode power supply built into these lamps may result.
While the amount of heat is much less than that produced by an equivalent Incandescent Lamp in a confined space this heat build up may be significant. 
The following is a (slightly edited) quote from the reference previously given  
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm 
"Because of the electronic circuitry, the maximum ambient temperature for a CFL/LED Lamp should remain as low as practicable, with most manufacturers warranting their products to a maximum of 50°C. This has forced a complete re-design for recessed downlights , and many other light fittings are completely unsuitable. If the heat from the lamp and the electronics cannot escape, the temperature will potentially rise to well over 50°C, and the lamp's life and light output could be badly affected." 
The illustration below from this reference shows fittings which may or not suitable for LEDs or CFLs.

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## Cuppa

> "Because of the electronic circuitry, the maximum ambient temperature for a CFL/LED Lamp should remain as low as practicable, with most manufacturers warranting their products to a maximum of 50°C. This has forced a complete re-design for recessed downlights , and many other light fittings are completely unsuitable. If the heat from the lamp and the electronics cannot escape, the temperature will potentially rise to well over 50°C, and the lamp's life and light output could be badly affected."

  I have recently had experience of LED corn globes purchased through ebay.  The globes have multi SMD LEDs with the circuit boards enclosed in a plastic bulb.  Every one has failed within 1 to 2 weeks except the last. This has now been operating successfully for around 6 weeks. The difference is that I carefully cut most of the plastic bulb off, in the belief that it may be allowing too much heat build up inside it.

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## FrodoOne

> I have recently had experience of LED corn globes purchased through ebay.  The globes have multi SMD LEDs with the circuit boards enclosed in a plastic bulb.  Every one has failed within 1 to 2 weeks except the last. This has now been operating successfully for around 6 weeks. The difference is that I carefully cut most of the plastic bulb off, in the belief that it may be allowing too much heat build up inside it.

  I have used this type of "Bulb" for many years and have had no such problems.
However, the ones that I have used were much larger and NOT enclosed in plastic.  (This actually presents another problem in that it may be possible for fingers to touch some of the LED contacts - which may not be isolated from the mains supply voltage!) 
However, several of those which I am using are in sealed "Bulkhead" enclosures - and may be subject to some heat build-up.  Since these enclosures are "outside" and the lamps are only switched on for brief periods, I have not noted any defects attributable to heat build up. 
While these "Bulbs" were relatively cheap several years ago (and still are), other LED types are now available and getting cheaper.

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## jarod

You may also consider these offering from ALDI if it fits your need...    https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-b...lesmini-bulbs/

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## aaronjthompson

Thanks Ikea does 400 lumen non-dimmables for $2.50 each (2 for $4.95) compared to the Aldi 470 lumen dimmables at $5.99 each.

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## METRIX

Always buy LED globes from stockists in Australia as these have passed safety / RFI testing, not the ebay ones, ebay globes have not been passed for safe use in AUS and are made in backyard sweat shops in china. 
Common problem with the ebay ones, they last about 1 week before blowing up, electric shock is common and documented on various sites, they interferer with radio / TV reception.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_DB-0E9k3A  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08W2VIwBkhI  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNf6VSj6M-E

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