# Forum Home Renovation Pest Control  Termite protection, do I need it?

## Prados

Hi all, 
We are building an extension to our 1973 brick veneer house (located in Adelaide, SA). 
As an owner-builder I am a bit struggling with understanding of some bits, at this stage I need some good advice on termite protection. 
I understand that we have to follow some rules and regulation which are sometimes stupid, silly etc. But... 
Proposed extension is slab on ground. Existing house - strip concrete footings/strip brick (inside) footings and timber floor. Do I actually need termite protection for my extension or can I use a slab as an termite barrier? 
PS: I asked my draftsman - no idea... I am shocked, but what can you do. 
Thanks for any ideas!

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## phild01

Don't underestimate a termite.  New slab up against existing needs termite barrier.  Check Kordon or Homeguard for their solutions.

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## joynz

Also protect pipe penetrations to slab

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## Marc

Termidor termite barrier, for the existing house and for under the new slab (before you poor) 
Ask around, I got quotes for the same job ranging from $2000 to $6500.  
And try to avoid polystyrene boxes under the new slab, they are just a magnet for termites

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## phild01

If house is so low that slab meets at floor level than also consider spraying under the the house where they meet while there is access or better is consider a reticulation system.  Termidor is good as it has friprinil in it.
Also as Joynz mentioned penetrations must be done as well with a collar.  All gets documented in the meter box.

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## phild01

Marc, we were thinking in unison.

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## Marc

ha ha i like termidor, but there are people out there that still sell it as a premium product when it is just about the same price as Bifen.

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## pauljygrant

Hi Prados, we are in almost the same situation about to OB an extension to our 4 year old house (house  built by one of the regular house builders).  Both are concrete slab foundations.  The house builder only sprays the ground and uses the standard plastic moisture barrier - anything else was an extra.  Presumably then, that's all that is needed to meet regulations.  We opted to pay extra for metal barriers at all pipe penetrations and to use termite treated timber.  
For the proposed extension, we shall use the same termite treated timber and only if needed by council, will consider spraying the ground before the slab goes down.
interested to follow your post, and hopefully to follow your OB build as well.  Are you going to post on here about your project?
we are in the southern suburbs and happy to share ideas etc if our projects are similar.
cheers, Paul

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## barney118

Most products are good for 10 yrs. It's a matter of top up surrounding them. A reticulated system allows you to top up anytime and more expensive. The important part is the penetrations with collars I used Kordon. 
You will meet code by just having the edge of the slab exposed 75mm above ground to allow for visual inspection. By spraying under is extra insurance for a while.  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## phild01

> You will meet code by just having the edge of the slab exposed 75mm above ground to allow for visual inspection. By spraying under is extra insurance for a while.

   Spraying under, as said has a very limited life and you will find many then core drill their slabs to maintain protection.  That is expensive.
The 75mm visual inspection is best but people build their gardens or pave up next to it not realising what they are defeating (the visual inspection point).
The other thing is that you are abutting the slab to an existing structure and the slab edge will not be visible.  This is where you need to pay particular attention and get it done right from the outset.

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## barney118

> Spraying under, as said has a very limited life and you will find many then core drill their slabs to maintain protection.  That is expensive.
> The 75mm visual inspection is best but people build their gardens or pave up next to it not realising what they are defeating (the visual inspection point).
> The other thing is that you are abutting the slab to an existing structure and the slab edge will not be visible.  This is where you need to pay particular attention and get it done right from the outset.

  Yes this is correct Phil that people build over this 75mm visual inspection however if they are aware of this and can build this into the new structure then it can save some $ on termite protection by excavating a bit more than needed from the start if possible.  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## ringtail

Just build on stumps, problem solved.

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## tychocaine

Hi Prados,  
With all due respect to your draftsman, if he/she didn't know the answer to your question then it's unlikely they have detailed the slab junction (old to new) appropriately and if you're an owner builder there are a lot of things you could get wrong re termites. Other people have commented about slab penetrations and collars and someone else mentioned the 75mm visible slab edge (which probably won't work for you where your old meets your new).... on top of this it would be a good idea for you to check out the BCA (which is now free online) and the Australian Standard for termite protection (3660... which to be honest is kind of vague).  
The answer to your question is that the slab is most definitely not a termite barrier. In fact, in all likelihood the junction between the old and new slab is the primary area where termites will access your house.
Kordon is fine but I don't think you can fit it to the existing house so unless you have a visible junction of at least 75mm everywhere (which is unlikely) I think you will be better off including a baiting/inspection system.  
There are two main commercial systems and they both cost more than a chemical spray and have ongoing maintenance requirements. I did a lot of research on this for myself and my clients and found a great company here in Adelaide called Termite Free Naturally. They can explain everything to you in detail without any BS and they offer systems you can install and monitor yourself or they will do it for you if you like. I have no affiliation with them other than being a paying customer who has received no complaints from everyone I've referred them to. 
If you were building a new house I would give different advice but with an extension, you need to resign yourself to the idea that they will probably get in. You just need to notice them and kill them before they do any damage. There's all kinds of other issues to consider re the chemical spray (potential health issues, convenience, ongoing costs etc) and you will hear all sorts of nonsense from the various pest companies and some creative answers to the question "will you warranty/guarantee a chemical treatment in this application" so do your own research before you decide. 
Good Luck.

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## barney118

unfortunately there is no magic solution, I have an extension where old met new and the best I could come up with without going reticulated was kordon 300mm strip around the perimeter. at the end of the day if they want to get in they will. I also used T2 timbers.

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## ringtail

> unfortunately there is no magic solution

  Yes there is, build on steel posts. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rats (and termites) live on the ground. Not always possible with extensions but for a new build there is no option as far as I'm concerned.

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## Prados

Thank you all for your replies!  
I think *Phild01* and *Tychocaine* made a good point about junction of old and new parts of house... That is why I am confused what to do and ! And another interesting discovery - today I removed a part of a brick wall and found that my existing floor/wall vents (They are around the house every couple of meters with tens of square holes about 10x10mm each) are very nice entrance to whoever can get through them. Nothing behind them, means welcome termites, all you need to do is to climb up the wall, just about 300mm from the ground and all hardwood and plenty of softwood available and all yours...  
So, without doing anything with existing structure (I mean protection) it's no point to do any termite treatment for a new extension. Unless I am wrong and termites can't climb up or they can, but not higher 75mm from ground))))  
PS: to Tychocaine - unfortunately they have not detailed junctions (old to new), all I have is a list of termite protection options which I can discuss with my builder, i.e with myself!))))) But it's not a major problem I guess. As an example I had to cut through my existing footings so I can pour a new ones and slab after... Long story, I can't pour my garage slab until I move gas and electricity, so footings and slab going separately.... anyway, our engineer inspected trenches recently and said "it'sa big no-no to brake any existing footings". And I didn't argue with him about it, cause he is partly right, but it's all about who and how making drawings, calculations, measurements in first place. Especially some specific things like "dowels"... I bought dowels according to his (engineers) report, but he said I got wrong once (I got plain round, but bloody strong, and expensive) and I need same as reo (rough surface), basically he said I can cut from reo bars (which is bugger all $$) some dowels... F#$# sake, excuse me all for my English. How I suppose to know? Anyway, I can sort it out, it's just stressful, takes time and money goes to waste bin...

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## Prados

Hi Paul, 
I was going to post my reno here, but things were going wrong (non related to reno) and now I have about 7 month to finish, to start and to finish. 
I am so busy now, don't have time to post, but maybe a bit later... 
So far I have completed freestanding patio, I guess it would be fair to say completed on 50% - concrete slab, timber roof with polycarbonate roofing sheets, all gutters and downpipes. Still need to do - paint one more time inside just for perfect look and finish, tile over slab 600x600mm tiles (as per my original plan), build up BBQ area (drawers, sink, stone benchtop...), install fan and lights (not allowed to do it, but will work together with my electrician). 
Main reno - about 100sq.m extension... another bathroom, bedroom, double garage etc. After that full reno of existing bathroom and laundry...  
Also I found that it's very hard to find a proper trades person which won't cost you an arm and leg:
I had about 20 plumbers at my place to do drainage... well I suppose I need to star separate thread about my reno... well average quote was 3-4K for (don't laugh please) 1 day job for 1 slow and lazy guy with some materials ~$300 and tools ~$30, top range was a quote from JIM's plumbing at $6000..... I had about 10 very scared to do a little work (once I showed my ready to go trenches with proper fall) plumbers who said that they can't stick to PVC pipes together, it's too hard and they are just maintenance plumbers... Assuming maintenance means changing rubber seal on your garden tap????? Well, after TWO month of searching and wasting time I found a nice guy who spend 1 day and cost me $1200 including pipes, bends, glue and GST. Honestly, I am looking for a plumbing apprenticeship now!!! I would like to be paid $100 per hour or maybe I can be like guys from Jim's plumbing and charge people $700 per hour!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoa! I did all digging (0.4m wide by 0.5 to 1m deep by 20m long through limestone) and backfilling by myself. 
I had about 10 concreters at my place... Man... 2 slabs, about 25sq.m. each, I was looking for someone to spread concrete and make a nice finish. No need to bend your back, no need to check levels, no need any expensive tools, just 1 slab with nice finish and 1 with rough finish (for tiling over later). Started from $4k.... guy who gave me such a "nice" quote was recommended by one member forum member. Of course it's not his fault, I even mentioned about him, that he was so happy with quality and price... Top range was a quote from something southern pave/dave or whatever concreter who came up with $6000 for both slabs, he said they will come day before pour and fix all reo and check all levels... I don't know why he said it, maybe to impress me or maybe he didn't know that I even checked all formwork by laser level. Anyway, found a concreter for $300. Took me a couple of weeks. ~9cub.m. of concrete + boom pump + concreter cost me ~$2500 and took about 4-5 hours. 
Sometimes I am very stressed, like now, cause thinking about lazy tradesmans who spend 4 years in TAFE and think that they can do the job... and ripoff everyone.... half of them don't bother to wear appropriate PPE, personally I like thongs as well, but who gave them white card? licence? why? what for?  
Man, I am so sorry for all this crap above... just wanted to say, be an OB is not an easy job, especially if you don't know prices, people, suppliers... It takes time, but as I said above - you can save a bucket of coins (unless you got one or even more) if you are happy to do your home work, shopping around and talk to people here or just simply read, like I did. This is a great forum, I love some projects in "WHOA" area. 
Cheers,
Alex.

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## intertd6

Monolithic concrete slabs built to the standard are termite resistant, there is no need to spray under them, for joining a new structure or slab to the old one you need to get some solutions from some different termite installation companies, they will give you a solution for the proposed junction plus a quote to do it which meets the the BCA requirements.
regards inter

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## phild01

> So, without doing anything with existing structure (I mean protection) it's no point to do any termite treatment for a new extension. Unless I am wrong and termites can't climb up or they can, but not higher 75mm from ground))))

   Termites are happy to climb and travel very long distances.  You have misunderstood the 75mm requirement.  This is an exposed edge of the slab so you can see termite activity ie mud trails.  Don't be complacent with how you deal with this.  Visual inspections are the best means of defence, something you won't have where the two structures meet.  Also be careful not to inhibit inspection access to the existing structure with the new extension.

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## joynz

> Thank you all for your replies!  
>   And another interesting discovery - today I removed a part of a brick wall and found that my existing floor/wall vents (They are around the house every couple of meters with tens of square holes about 10x10mm each) are very nice entrance to whoever can get through them. Nothing behind them, means welcome termites, all you need to do is to climb up the wall, just about 300mm from the ground and all hardwood and plenty of softwood available and all yours... 
>  ...

  The floor wall vents you describe are usually used for houses constructed on stumps.  Is your existing house on stumps or on a slab?

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## Prados

> The floor wall vents you describe are usually used for houses constructed on stumps.  Is your existing house on stumps or on a slab?

  It's basically rectangular house with one rectangular strip footing. Floor (middle part) supported not by stumps but by 3 long strips of bricks laid on ground. Brick strips are covered with zinc flashing with folded down at about 45 deg edges. Same for the footing - zinc flashing with folded edge all the way but only from inside the house.  
As I understand those zinc flashings are a sort of barrier, for rat? mice? (if they manage to get under the house) Cause all other small pests (including termites) up to 10mm width can travel through my vents. Nothing will stop them. Unless I put termite mesh on top of my vents, which will reduce air flow... Today brick layers leaving a 10mm gap every couple of meters between bricks (usually bottom layer) and termites can travel through them as well, therefore proper builder should install termite barrier behind them... In my case, it's 40+ years old house, so maybe rules were different, maybe builders missed something... who knows...

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## phild01

> It's basically rectangular house with one rectangular strip footing. Floor (middle part) supported not by stumps but by 3 long strips of bricks laid on ground. Brick strips are covered with zinc flashing with folded down at about 45 deg edges. Same for the footing - zinc flashing with folded edge all the way but only from inside the house.  
> As I understand those zinc flashings are a sort of barrier, for rat? mice? (if they manage to get under the house) Cause all other small pests (including termites) up to 10mm width can travel through my vents. Nothing will stop them. Unless I put termite mesh on top of my vents, which will reduce air flow... Today brick layers leaving a 10mm gap every couple of meters between bricks (usually bottom layer) and termites can travel through them as well, therefore proper builder should install termite barrier behind them... In my case, it's 40+ years old house, so maybe rules were different, maybe builders missed something... who knows...

  That zinc flashing you describe is antcapping.  It is there as a visual inspection point for termites and is the standard to be met.  It is incorrect to consider that because you have air vents and voids that termites weren't worried about in the original construction.  When you do the new extension you will remove your ability to have that adjoining area available for inspection.  Protection must be re-instated.  Termites quickly and quietly go about their business without you being aware of their presence.   
You could be left with a house to demolish within a few short years.

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