# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  Daikin verus Actron

## backyard7

I am trying to decide between Actron Platinum Plus  and Daikin Premium Inverter ducted airconditioning, .  I am hoping someone might be able clear up two things I have been wondering about ....  
1) I sometimes hear comments that Actron outdoor units can be noisy, but when I read the specs in the brochure the quoted noise levels dont seem much different to Daikin.   Does anyone have first hand experience of whether Actron Platinum Plus are extra noisy ?    
2) Actron say the variable speed compressors they use makes them more efficient than other inverter air-conditioners.  If thats true, it made me wonder why variable speed compressors arent more widely used by a greater number of airconditioning companies... eg are there other drawbacks.     Does anyone know ?     
In case this helps - The two models I am considering are Daikin RZQS160AV / FDYQ160LBV1  (this  is single phase 16kw cooling / 18kw heating) and Actron CRV3-17AS  /  ERV3-17AS  (this is single phase 14.45 kw cooling / 16.55 kw  heating). 
Many thanks ....

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## commodorenut

For question 2 - it's all just marketing hype. 
"Inverter control" is just a marketing name for a variable speed (inverter) drive controlling the compressor speed anyway, so it's basically the same thing between the brands. 
The other type are "fixed speed" - the traditional compressors that we've had for decades, that cycle in & out when required - sapping a chunk of energy on each start-up event.  The variable types vary the speed of the compressor as required, to avoid this high-current (and therefore more costly) startup in the start-stop method of cycling.

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## Lorikeet

so it's basically the same thing between the brands. Maybe not? 
The major brands are all variable speed / inverter these days, but they are not all the same. There are huge differences in the technologies used and it comes down to cost versus premium quality. Actron Platinum use a much more advance inverter scroll than typical inverters and this is what lets the Actron's vary their capacity so greatly. Also, what I have heard before, the  compressors Actron use are made in the USA and they actually wear in over time and not wear out like the other inverters like Daikin. 
Lorikeet

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## Brian7886

> For question 2 - it's all just marketing hype. 
> "Inverter control" is just a marketing name for a variable speed (inverter) drive controlling the compressor speed anyway, so it's basically the same thing between the brands. 
> The other type are "fixed speed" - the traditional compressors that we've had for decades, that cycle in & out when required - sapping a chunk of energy on each start-up event.  The variable types vary the speed of the compressor as required, to avoid this high-current (and therefore more costly) startup in the start-stop method of cycling.

  True and not true.  
Actron basically have 3 set ups. The inverter (the platinum), the esp plus (variable capacity digital scroll) and the fixed speed.  
The main difference is, that with the ranges that have 'plus' in the name, that when set to 'esp' mode, with proper commissioning, the unit works as hard as required, based on how many zones are open. This works by both slowing down the air flow (indoor fans is an ECM) and with that, the compressor also ramps down, as its required capacity is lowered (think turning it from 1 whole house to 1 bedroom). Typically these can operate at as low as 10-20% capacity, which if you did wanna only use 1 part of your home, there is huge savings in power consumption to be made.  
The digital scroll compressors in the ESP plus and classic range, work on loading/unloading, unlike typical rotary compressors found in normal a/c's. Again with the esp mode activated you will be able to reduce the load/unload sequence to vary capacity.  
Typical inverters (daikin/fujitsu/pano) only reduce the capacity based on temp. meaning if you wanted 1 run 1 or 2 bedrooms, the compressor will still work at fullload until temp is reached. So theres little power saving to be made there 
It is all a much of a muchness. And with ducted, its best off to talk to the professional on a site visit. I could give you all the advice you can take, but every house is different and each persons requirements are different.

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## commodorenut

Brian, he didn't ask about variable capacity, which is why I did not mention it.  it only adds to the confusion. 
Variable speed and inverter control - which are the 2 he is comparing in point 2 - are exactly the same thing - the speed control is achieved by the inverter!   

> 2) Actron say the *variable speed compressors*  they use makes them more efficient than* other inverter* air-conditioners.   If thats true, it made me wonder why *variable speed compressors* arent  more widely used by a greater number of airconditioning companies...

  Like I said, marketing.  "Actron say" makes that very clear.......

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## Jonesy_SA

From the spec sheets it looked like the digital compressors could reduce by about 80% compared with 40% of other compressors. From the way I read it, a 7kw unit could operate as low as 1.5kw input; compared to say 3+ kw input for standard compressors (just rough numbers). Their marketing material also suggested this. I could not find any other brands who used this technology or advertised it. I have visited a few aircon specialists recently and none of them offered Actron. They all offered Daikin but suggest not going with them as repair costs and support is apparently terrible. Not sure how true any of that is.

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## pharmaboy2

> From the spec sheets it looked like the digital compressors could reduce by about 80% compared with 40% of other compressors. From the way I read it, a 7kw unit could operate as low as 1.5kw input; compared to say 3+ kw input for standard compressors (just rough numbers). Their marketing material also suggested this. I could not find any other brands who used this technology or advertised it. I have visited a few aircon specialists recently and none of them offered Actron. They all offered Daikin but suggest not going with them as repair costs and support is apparently terrible. Not sure how true any of that is.

  I chose the air conditioner installer before I chose the brand of the aircon.  Good reputation for installing quality diffusers, can get there in a day so it's done at the right time during build, could do custom boxes etc.  I'm not sure one brand is better over the other, but it seems most installers do Daikin around here for ducted

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## Brian7886

> Brian, he didn't ask about variable capacity, which is why I did not mention it.  it only adds to the confusion. 
> Variable speed and inverter control - which are the 2 he is comparing in point 2 - are exactly the same thing - the speed control is achieved by the inverter!   
> Like I said, marketing.  "Actron say" makes that very clear.......

  Varying the compressor output varies the capacity. So its the same. Its the whole idea behind the inverter system/variable speed units.  
But like i said, they work on the principle of working as hard as required, but digital scroll with the load/unload tech, and the inverter works on speed up/slow down. The inverter works on using large capacitor banks and filters to basically change your ac waveform to a flat wave form or DC. The sensors within the system tell the boards how much voltage to send to the compressor which determines its speed yeah?  
What i am saying is that its a horses for courses situation. An inverter type AC (daikin/fujitsu etc) will start to slow down in speed as temperature monitors detect changes within the rooms yeah? With actrons (and some other units on the market) also use the demand of the system based on air flow/capacity required. These can be big sellers for say a large family home, where there might be shift workers. So through the day you might only want the 1 bedroom on. Detecting such a small air conditioning requirement the unit runs at its lower capacity.  
You will be surprised how many people go for a large inverter system thinking 'inverter will save me money' then when they wanna use just the 1 room, they are still using the entire systems capacity until the temperature demands it to slow. Which could be 5 or 6kwH used.  
Im not saying 1 is better than the other, they are directed for many varying uses and those are the things to be considered when selecting a unit, not just whats cheapest or what is 'cheapest to run' based on a nominal rating.

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