# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  Here is my dilemma.  Who can help?

## bcaso

Here is my dilemma,  The slab of my extension was intentionally poured 55m below the top of the floor boards of my existing stumped home to allow for 35mm battons and 19 mm flooring. The slab was pretty good when initially done, well so I thought however after running a laser level across it yesterday the slab has high 7.5mm spots in one corner ( the worst) and on the other side It is spot on then falls away to -10mm down on the edge of the bottom plate. The average packing required under the battens would range between 3.5mm-6.5mm but on the most it is spot on the occasional High and low spots. The average batton length (of which I have 28, spaced at 450mm centers and are 9 meters in length. One batten requires 13mm packing right at the end of the slab and tapers down to 1mm over 5 meters. Today I packed every fourth batten with masonite packers every 1.5 meters (where required). The hardest part is setting the laser level (get a self leveler).
<O:p</O:p Just remember some gaps under the battens just taper from large to small and others are kind of wavy. I obviously need support under the entire batten given the thickness of the batten(35mm) otherwise it would flex.
<O:p</O:p Now I can do one of many things and here is where I need really good advice/experience or if none of that, ideas on how I can get the top of the battens flat for flooring. I am a little bit of a perfectionist but this task is beyond the joke and I do not mind being 1-2mm out over 3 meters. It is important to get it flat so when the kitchen goes over the top, there is no gap and given the length of the room and the hallway (25meters)I reckon it needs to be done right. Here we go:  1. Buy bigger battens and shave/mill down as required. I think this is near impossible. 2. shave the battens slightly where needed and make packers to fit the low spots. If this is your preferred method, please explain how you propose I do this. Preferably using hardwood of the same width (45mm) 3. I know some of you would suggest a self leveling compound but I have 2 issues with this method  a) I have the plaster on the walls with a 10 m gap from the floor for movement. How would you stop this gap from closing and the compound dribling off the slab b) On 110 sq meters and some height of 7.5 or 10mm wont this be too expensive (have not yet researched this. 4. (I tried a section on Sunday) placed the spacers every 1.5m, lifted the batten off, mixed 50/50 cement and sand, spread the mud where the batten would lay( between the spacers) and used the batten as the leveler and the spacers as the guide. I spread it an inch or so both sides of the batten so it would not crack. Well this worked a treat and the batten seems well supported, and perfect height too ( a little messy first time around but if this is the way to go, I think next time will be a little neater). The only thing with this way is, I have no idea if this is the best mud mix? for 1-10mm packing so it does not crack as I would need it to lasts forever and holds the weight of the flooring. I have not yet drilled through it to place a pin to hold down the batten as I want it to dry good and proper (and no, I will not forget the plastic)  I am happy for anyone to shoot holes in the above methods or suggest an alternative.  Thanks 
<O:p</O:p

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## chuth77

I'd just pack at intervals, and use a building adhesive under the remaining length of batten... It's worked for me...  
Pack what you can, and fill the rest... Once the timber floor is on, it'll form a very solid platform...

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## bcaso

What would you pack it with?  I would imagine from what I know about building adhesive, it would not last that long and the floor might buckle after time.  i know it would be super strong, but I rekon wonky and on floorboards with windows at the end, it will show. 
I intend to stay in this house.

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## chuth77

Villaboard, Masonite, and laminate for thin packing....

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## bcaso

good one,  I will try it on 1 row and see how it works. 
any other ideas?

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## president_ltd

wouldn't use masonite packers for subfloor like that - any moisture and they lose their shape & you have a possibility of sag. 
look at using cement sheet offcuts, the other suggestions above are good too. 
frameles glass pool fence here was packed under using UV-stabilized packers that seemed specially made for that kind of thing, the guy doing it had a whole box full of different size (depth) ones, you could try asking a frameless fence / shower screen place if you wanted lots of them.

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## timdavis@activ8

My suggestion is get real and don't worry about it. In the building and flooring trade the perfect job does not exist. On a 110sq. metre job you will not detect visually a rise or fall of a few millimetres, even 10mm. is very hard to see.
Lay all the battens, forget about laser levels, just rest a long straight edge on the fixed battens and plane off the high points if they worry you.
Don't worry about the kitchen sitting level, a good cabinet maker will scribe the kick- boards to the contour of the floor, so they sit tight. It is a good idea to rough sand the floor prior to fixing skirting boards and fiting the kitchen, this will also enable a close fit.
Once again don't get too worried. I've worked on hundreds (possibly thousands) of floors and differences in level of way over 10mm are virtually impossible to detect spread out over an area of this size.
Concrete slabs are never poured dead level, and timber battens are rarely of a regular thickness, plus there will always be timber shrinkage and concrete movement/settling in time to come. Relax, the floor is going to move of it's own accord anyway and your perfectly level floor won't be for very long.

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## timdavis@activ8

ps. We are not equipped with lasers for eyes. The slab probably looked flat before you put the level across it. If the slab _looks_ flat then so will the floor layed on top of it. By all means pack and/or plane the battens as near to level as realisticaly possible, but a 5-10 mm variance spread over 100sq. metres is quite acceptable. Bear in mind that with the kitchen fitted, furniture in place, curtains hung and possibly a few rugs spread over the floor you will _never_ detect variations in hight of up to 10mm or even more.
Good idea using waterproof packers and maybe sealing the slab first, or else laying battens on a waterproof membrane. It is almost inevitable that moisture will be released from the concrete to the timber, or at some time water will find it's way in to the house. Rarely have I seen an old concrete slab that has not been subject to water ingress at some stage of it's life.

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## Ronaldo451

Have you considered using metal battens? Don't know if they are available in 35mm but would be worth having a look at the Rondo site or similar. These would still need to be packed but the spacing of the packing would not be so critical and there is a better chance they would remain 'true' over their length. Also, I would stick with blueboard or compressed cement sheeting for packing regardless.

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## Metung

You say that you are using a laser level that is not self levelling which suggests to me that it may be of questionable quality as would be the readings that it gives. I may be wrong but I would think that unless your laser level is perfectly level then it may be the laser level that is out and not the slab or a combination of both. I suppose what I am trying to say is that unless you can be certain about the levels you are taking on the slab, then all your hard work could be wasted.

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## chuth77

Don't use metal battens... They will forever be noisy.... And their expansion rate is vastly different to timber flooring!

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## bcaso

> Don't use metal battens... They will forever be noisy.... And their expansion rate is vastly different to timber flooring!

  I agree, not only this but how does one nail to steel :Rolleyes:  
As for the laser being out...like I said i am not after a 100% job.
where the laser says the slab is down, you can confirm this by placing a 5 meter batten over the slab and you see a gap of exactly the same size.  I must admit it is not the most expensive laser, however, I personally think it would be less than 1mm of tollerance out at 5 meters. 
Tim,  great to hear you cannot stuff it up even if you do nothing.  It is a bit worrying, this end spending $5k-$10k on flooring to find out after you lay it that you really should have taken the time to get the subfloor level.  I will take that on board though. 
I am glad though it was mentioned that masonite packers are no good for this as this would be what most people would reccomend  as a packer firstly. 
Doesn't anyone like the sand/cement mix?

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## autogenous

Have you contemplated a floor grinder for the high spots? 
Can you plane the battens down in some areas and pack with CFC in others? 
Some people dump a slab then screed then batten. 
Keep in mind that 3mm over a metre maybe acceptable as deviation and not really noticed in a floor. Correct me if I'm wrong. 
Battens to floor are relatively a new concept, 10-15 years. 
Many products today require more precise construction.  In the past certain construction methods were to bed things like wall plates in mortar. They were well aware that on site is not a classroom environment.  
People often by a product thinking a. they purchased something at a good deal then eg: their porcelain tiles are so hard there is no instrument to cut them. They are slightly bent and the only answer is glue them to the space shuttle to straighten them on re-entry. There is other intensive labour requirements to install the product. 
Building is not perfect. Houses are not precision machinery. 
I digress, sorry.

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## chuth77

Masonite would be fine... If you have enough moisture in your slab to create issues with Masonite, you're going to have more problems than you know what to do with... 
Yes, the ideal is Fibre cement, but can you get it 3mm thick?.... 
Hence also why you would use a construction adhesive/filler under the length of the battens... To have support over the entire length... 
Check out the timber qld website, and they have specs on the level variations in floor systems allowable...

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## autogenous

_but can you get it 3mm thick? _ You can split 6 but its far from accurate for that type of task.

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## chuth77

Done it before, and it's a painful excercise!!!

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## Gaza

use plastic glazing packers at 450mm centers along your joists. 
set laser up and use a ruler or section of tape measure to measure down from the laser line to the top of your batton. 
level with laser every 4th row of battens then use a stright edge between the two rows that have been lasered. 
your concrete slab sounds like an normal slab infact it sounds good if you are only packing 10mm. 
1 man should be able to cut in battens, level and fix them off inaround 3 days for 100m2. 
any qns PM me, we have done this method for years at it works for 19mm thick battens upto 45mm

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## glock40sw

Don't use battens. 
Lay 15mm ply sheets over the slab. Fix with plitz anchours and adhesive. Then fix another layer of 15mm ply at rightangles to the first layer of ply. Then fix T&G to the ply. This will level out the substrate to a degree that will allow a "level" floor.

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## Gaza

glock, i would have to disagree with you for the first time in 3 or 4 years. the only way you can lay ply is if the slab is topped with a leveling compund. 
if not the ply would pull down hard to the slab when you fix it, you need to use 25 fixings per sheet, the second layer would have bridge the low points which would be drummy.

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## glock40sw

> glock, i would have to disagree with you for the first time in 3 or 4 years. the only way you can lay ply is if the slab is topped with a leveling compund. 
> if not the ply would pull down hard to the slab when you fix it, you need to use 25 fixings per sheet, the second layer would have bridge the low points which would be drummy.

  
Gaza. Didn't he state that he was going to use a leveling compound first?
Ummm.... No.....OK.... Yes. Leveling compound first... 
Sorry.

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## bcaso

Thanks,  The high spots don't really pose the problem as it is pretty easy to sribe the high spots and plane the bottom of the batton.  It is the low spots that is the issue.  I like many of the suggestions and will look into plastic glazing packers and yes, it is painful and I have not really started yet. 
Thanks Gazza, I might take up that offer. 
The reason I do not want ply down is the stummped part of the house has a hollow sound that I like and I did not want to walk down the hall then hit the dead hard feel.  I am sure people with stumped homes would agree with me, it just feels better.  Otherwise I would have concreted -19mm and glued the floor ( I do like  secret nail) however I am going 180mm-140mm so I need to top nail. 
So I take it by no ones responce, the sand/cement mix was not a good way to go! 
2 Q's:   What is CFC's and Spitz 
What pins to hold the battens to the slab are better,  The ones that split when you slam it in or the tight  fit pin with the tappered end? 
Which is better?

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## marz1

i suggest you also use a string line in a few directions to help show you where the low spots are instead of the laser, its a true indication if you dought the lasers accuracy. 
You can use plastic packers they come in a big range of thicknesses from a building supplies or steel suppliers store.  1mm to 10mm thickness. 
When you pack it every 450 cts then the rest of the gap under the battens can be filled with a special quick drying non shrink grout, its very strong and doesnt shrink or expand once it dries, that way your battens have a base to sit on all the way along, but i think the pcakers will be enough once you nailed through to the slab. 
Dont use pine battens too soft and water absorbs easier. Use hardwood F17 grade timber. and it also might be worth sealing the slab with a moisture barrier too. 
cheers marz hop this helps

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## Larry McCully

best way to level battens and get a flat top. duplicate this proceedure across the floor in each room. ask questions

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## Larry McCully

Jas,

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## bcaso

What are your thoughts on using 200um plastic overlaped and taped, as a moisture barrier. I have had mixed opinions. Thanks

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## Gaza

> What are your thoughts on using 200um plastic overlaped and taped, as a moisture barrier. I have had mixed opinions. Thanks

  yes it is accepteable under timber flooring standard. 
overlap should be 200mm at joints and taped.

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## kombiman

> Masonite would be fine... If you have enough moisture in your slab to create issues with Masonite, you're going to have more problems than you know what to do with... 
> Yes, the ideal is Fibre cement, but can you get it 3mm thick?.... 
> Hence also why you would use a construction adhesive/filler under the length of the battens... To have support over the entire length... 
> Check out the timber qld website, and they have specs on the level variations in floor systems allowable...

  no but then you use a couple of pieces of laminate.  :2thumbsup:

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## bcaso

Great... I intend to start tomorrow and overlap the plastic 900mm (2 batons) is it normal practice to glue the plastic or just tape. If tape what tape as I would recon most glues on tape would dry up in a few years.....Wouldn't they?

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## Larry McCully

It is the silver tape about 50mm wide, As you pull the tape out it will streach, allow it to relax first before you apply it top the edge of the sheet.

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## bcaso

Thanks for all the input so far.  Have another question.... 
floor boards are running down a hallway and up to 4m bifolds.
How close should I place the last baton to the north facing bifolds.  Logic would say up against the bifold so there is less chance of the ends of the boards moving, but like everything in building, you need some experience. 
I only thought that moving the baton away about 25-50mm would stop the floor board from spliting at the ends when nailed and that little overhang would not move with load or sun. 
BTW.... i am using 180mm x 22mm HW

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## Larry McCully

50 to 80 mm is good

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## chuth77

But don't but your timber against the door jambs.... Do yourself a favour and get some cork stripping, 10mm wide is fine.... use this as the expansion joint between the door and the floor... Just make sure you lay the cork in first, and the first board of that run is against the cork... Don't try and squeeze the last board in against the cork, because you won't get the cork under compression...

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## Larry McCully

He should undercut the jams and insert the new floor under the jams

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## chuth77

Sorry, yes undercut your architraves, and jambs if you can, but if it's entry doors, you'll have a sill which is where you use the cork to butt up against....

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## bcaso

this is the scenario I am facing. This is a four door Bi-fold system from doors plus.

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## bcaso

Thanks to those who gave advice. 
Decided to pin 35 x 45 batons every 900 and pack twice between. plastic packers 1.5mm. 3.2mm and 5mm along with cement sheet got the tops pretty flat. 
Laser worked a treat.  once outside and a couple of centre reference batons layed, rest goes down pretty easy. 200um plastic beneath overlapped 450mm and taped and found redi drives better than macsim splitz. 
Hard going on your knees all day and for those that have done this b4, you were all correct in saying a big hammer is needed to drive the pins in, but great stress reliever. 
Can't wait for flooring to go down....to the flooring guys....is laying 180mm x 22mm flooring any different to lay than 80mm x 19mm other than I need to top nail and glue with bostick ultra set? 
cheers

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## Larry McCully

Arhhhh, i hate top nailing . Havnt done it in ten years, never will , I make sure that the boards are well seasoned on site 2 weeks, then install. The only reason that top nail became a consideration is because lame installers were putting boards down to soon after delivery. Most boards come in on site with a lower moisture content than the atmosphere content. When they are installed to soon they will expand a bit and distort under preasure. well Blow me down , so would you if you were wet in a tight space.
So the proper way is to let it settle on site in the dwellingf stacked with spacers in between and left to do its own thing for at least 10 days. Do not lay out on the floor , stack it in a pile to one side of the house in the room where you will be doing all the cutting. NOW, there is a rumour going around that trhe mills are drying it to a state where you can install directly from the delivery day. What a load of c__p. Unless the EMC is E q u i v a l i n t . to the mill  C o n t e n t  then yer , go for it . But since we enjoy a large variaty of weather  then it stands to reason that the Mouisture content in sydney is not the same as Grafton, or how about that western syd differs from monavale, or canberra or gundigy. And anyway, if a board cups, then it is because it got flooded, or it dried out very fast from a heater. So , let me just say this,,,,, If it is going to cup, not any amount of nails will stop it from doing what it wants to do. Anyway,when a boards cup , it is more of a swelling at the edges that are exposed to the water and that gives the cupping look. Simular to when you leave chipboard in tha rain, and the little bitty fibres fill full of water and it explodes. O by the way. it is not a hard and fast rule, it is designed to illiminate blame from the installer. It is only a consideration that is highly recomended. I recon that it should be up to the client to choose to top nail or not. I have seen 100 year old 150mm wide hoop pine in North Queensland in a grand old home that was secret nailed with one bullet head nail scewed  in the tounge ,no glue or top nail and doin just tight and fine.
Any way thats my thoughts on the matter.

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## glock40sw

> NOW, there is a rumour going around that trhe mills are drying it to a state where you can install directly from the delivery day. What a load of c__p.

   :2thumbsup:  :Iagree:  :What he said:

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## Larry McCully

Hi trev, Smell  good at the mill ?

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## glock40sw

> Hi trev, Smell good at the mill ?

  Back at work for a week and I'm sick of it already. :Biggrin:  
It's funny how flooring re-acts. We have some New England BBT that is playing up on the sunshine coast. Cupping, variable cover widths, tight T&G fit etc etc. Yet the other packs from the same run that went to Newcastle, Sydney, Melbourne are all fine with no issues at all. I hate QLD weather.... :Biggrin:

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## bcaso

> Arhhhh, i hate top nailing . Havnt done it in ten years, never will .

  Is this because it looks ugly?
It is harder to do?
not necessary 
Is there any diference in laying the wider to the 80mm and why do most places generaly direct people to buy 80mm?

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## Larry McCully

Wide boards give a more open look. Not as many lines down the floor. wide board looks more prestigious. i see a lot of wide board in high profile homes. I have seen some floors where they have used narrow and wide boards together. Example. two narrow boards trhen one wide board then one narrow then one wisde then two narrow again then one wide then one narrow. They follow this pattern through the floor. But i think that either board is fine, i prefer wide board and no top nail and ayou get is a ocean of timber.mmmmmmm looks goooood. I recon it you are going to have a timber floor, then you dont want to see nails nail holes.

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## Larry McCully

Wide board is a little dearer, so i guess that the supplier doesnt want to loose a sale. Wide board without top nail looks unreal. 
About the spasims in the timber at the coast trev. I bet the humidity is very high. and that there is execessive expansion. I think i will look at the BOM for a forcast for brissy.

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## UteMad

Gees we do it for decks every day.. no biggy pack fix and glue but one should not be too anal about the last few mm as it aint ever going to be  seen and if you think a house with 4x2 and 4x3 is flat then your dreamin.. 
As far as reducing batten thickness thats what electric planers are for.. Pics below the slab was out 35mm from one corner to the other.. Shaved some packed some so prob up top 25mm of packers in places and minus 10mm in others  
one we ply packed   
one we plastic horse shoe packed   
cheers utemad

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## UteMad

We had some T&G that faced west and it was all pre coated including t&g and it cupped in under a week.. Before everyone jumps on the climatise bit .. Its a terrace balcony so outside unfortunately 
80mm is pushed cause its easier to source and easier to lay with less cupping problems .. All in all easier for the merchant and a novice layer. 140m we secret and top nail and ultraset but then we aint going up against flooring guys when we fit internal floors its just cause you want us to fit it so i have more room for extra expense..Larry can testify to my love of bostich excess.. 
cheers utemad

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## Larry McCully

I know them set of stairs. and i bet i could tell you what the timber floor looks like on top two.

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## bcaso

given this extreme dry weather,  is it better to lay down flooring whilst the boards are very dry and shrunken so that when moisture returns in the atmosphere everything is nice and tight?  taken into account the boards have been stacked and sitting for 2-3 weeks in the room they are to be layed with cooling working , heater working etc but no rain over that period.  Is it better to wait until it rains?

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## Larry McCully

The ideal seasoning is that the timber is left on site under cover (preferbly) in the room and stacked with spacers laid down between the rows to allow airflow around the boards. If the room is going to be air conditioned continually, then the aircon needs to be on , But if the room is only partially going to be conditioned, then it is best to allow the boards to season under normal conditions. You dont want to artificially dry the timber in excess to the average content of the atmosphere. Rain will not make that much of a difference in the short term. If it rain"d for a month continuisly then the boards will absorb moisture equilivent to atmospheric content. A process call EMC (equiblibriem moisture content) occurs as the timber absorbs or diapates its moisture according to the moisture in the air. However timber is a dense material and will slowly axcept or reject moisture slowly. Direct content of water is call saturation. That is a different story.  as long as the timber has been stacked in the same enviroment for at least 2 weeks, then go ahead and install. do worry about the rain or waiting for it. you will be fine.

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## bcaso

do you think it is better to stack the flooring one way, then the next layer the other, whilst aclimatizing (obviously with spacers between) or lay the boards as they will eventually be layed, with the boards running upto the north facing doors and windows (  where I imagine the boards would slightly shrink  more)?

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## Larry McCully

howdy, on top of each other all in the same direction is fine, The important thing is to have the spacers in between. _Airflow is the go_

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## bcaso

This flooring caper is hard work and very phisical. 
I am after any tricks some of you may know. 
The top of the battons on the slab are spot on however, the floor joists on the stumped part of the house is out of wack, there is no drama planning the tops but what is the best way to add to build them up. I tried masonary packes but this is the pits and I have tried cutting lengths but as the joist is wonky, this is dificult. 
I have thought of laminating another joist to the side at the correct height, but I really do not want to do it this way. Anyone know a quicker better way? 
Know that I have read what I have just writen, I think I need to plain the joist so it is flat the cut a packer to size. Any comments? 
If anyone knows ...what is the max variation in height that is acceptable between joists/battens spaced at 450mm...1mm...2mm....3mm

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## bcaso

Here are a few picks of the work I have done so far. Knees and back are a bit sore but  now ready for floorboards.

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## Larry McCully

mmmmmm that looks good

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## Gaza

nice bulk head did you do that your self.

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## glock40sw

God, I hate battens... :No: . But that looks good... :2thumbsup:

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## bcaso

> God, I hate battens.... But that looks good...

  What do you hate about battens?  Is it that they tend to move more? 
As I said, I have pins at about every 800mm (75mm in length x 300 of them). 35mm high by 45 wide hardwood battens, cement sheet or plastic packers (they take tonnes in weight before they compress and last forever) I have them spaced out 250mm min and battens less than 450mm centers and the long passageway (22meters) has height variation of less than 1.5mm.  took me 7 full days, the hardest part was the old  floor joists.  What a pain in the     ar  :Yikes2: e. 
Gaza, yeah I did the bulkhead.  Very proud if it too. 
BTW the doors you see that are greyish in color (temporarily) are 2.9meters tall and way a tonne, might need three,possibly four hinges for it.

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## bcaso

Wrapped!  I have the floorboards delivered,  That's  another decision out of the way. 
This is how I stacked it.  Average size is about  3.5 meters. 
I stacked it in two piles...large and small ( about 2m x 2m)  larger stack close to the Nth facing window.  Plan to leave it there for 6 weeks. 
For those interested it is 180mm Silvertop Ash.

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## Larry McCully

thats the way. 6 weeks is fine , but you could do it in two if you want.

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## glock40sw

Battens make for a drummy floor.

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## bcaso

> Battens make for a drummy floor.

  Do you recon when the floor is downd you will be able to hear /tell that you have walked from stumps to batons on slab? 
Larry, when you say I can get away with it in 2 weeks, Is this because it is so dry?  Ta

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## bcaso

sound great - feel great - look great.  Well worth the effort. :Biggrin:

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## Dusty

A few more pics would be a good thing. As the last lot were looking the goods.

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## DNL

Great thread fellas....very interesting as the job unfolded. I agree with Dusty...a few more pics would be great. 
And that DIY bulkhead...that is impressive....any photos of that being done? 
cheers
Dave

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## bcaso

Thanks....here you go, a photo that shows both the bulkhead and flooring (not yet polished)   
Any ideas on polish/finish would be much appreciated??
- poly
- oil
-traffic
-water base 
gloss/Matt/semi gloss

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## bcaso

As in, people in the know....what is your favorite floor finish and why? :Confused:

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## Dusty

I, personally, still haven't seen any other flooring finish that can out perform a good 2pac polyurethane. 
~It looks sensational.
~It's as hard as Chinese Arithmetic.
~It's pretty much fool proof when it comes to applying it. 
If, and when, I find a product as good, or preferably better than it, I'll be the first bloke to jump on board. Until then, _this_ is the go.  
This, you'll find, is only my not so humble opinion. Others may vary.

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## Christopher_940

> I, personally, still haven't seen any other flooring finish that can out perform a good 2pac polyurethane. 
> ~It looks sensational.
> ~It's as hard as Chinese Arithmetic.
> ~It's pretty much fool proof when it comes to applying it. 
> If, and when, I find a product as good, or preferably better than it, I'll be the first bloke to jump on board. Until then, _this_ is the go.  
> This, you'll find, is only my not so humble opinion. Others may vary.

   :What he said:  u cant beat 2pak polly in a gloss

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## TimDavis

My favourite finish: 2 pack (solvent) poly x 2 coats
                            Top coat Feast Watson Satin Maxithane
Reasons: Fail-safe ease of application
               Less intense, slightly waxy type finished appearance
               First scratches aren't as obviouse as high gloss
               Dust in final coat isn't as visible as in a gloss finish
               Very hard wearing
               Higher/deeper coating build up than water-based poly (longer life)
               Half the price of water based products
               Inert/harmless when cured, approx. 1-2 weeks

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## bcaso

I Like different. 
Timdavis response sounds good...  Any 1 else tried it  (sounds like a recipe) 
1)  I have been told that poly goes yellow 
2)  Generally the more you pay for things the better.  So isn't waterbase any good. 
3) no one mentioned natural wax that hardens...I remember someone being really passionate about this

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## Dusty

I follow pretty much the same recipe as Tim for doing a Satin finish, except I've been using Polycure Super Satin, as the final coat. 
Perhaps, one day, I may give the Feast Watson Satin a whirl. :2thumbsup:

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## The Master

Bcaso,
Firstly nice project.Secondly both acrylic and polyurethane have there own pro's and con's
CON'S
Polyurathane(1 or 2 pac) amber or yellow over time due to U.V .In direct sunlight this process can happen fast.the uv penetrates the coating and is trapped hence the ambering colour ( a re-sand removes the ambered lacquer).Satin can be problematic to recoat (bonding issue).movement of floor can sound like a "shotgun"going off! Static can allow dust to be attracted to wet coating. 2 pack is only in Gloss.SMELLY
.Acrylic doesn't amber (it is like wrapping glad wrap around a board) the uv is not trapped in the coating,BUT the board itself changes colour due to fade-ing.A bleaching affect.Affected by some household products.sometimes issues with ghosting( lapping marks appearing for no apparent reason).Resand/resurface= more wood is removed due to restoring wood colour.Colours timber pale/light.Grain raise(Can be eliminated with waterpop prior to seal.) 
PRO'S
Polyurethane is HARD.2 pac VERYglossy.single pack options gloss,satin.matt.resistant to most chemicals.Rich clour.
Acrylic has nice appearance,feel, sheen levels are even.Slight smell,Hardly any dust on finished floor. 
2 solutions 
Poly.
2coats of polycure 1045(more flex than 2 pack) then i coat of Feast Watson Satin Maxithane as tim davis suggests 
Acrylic
1)Bona Prime intense sealer then 2 or 3 coats of traffic I.P(Invisible. Protection.-cannot see coating sheen when looking from above)
OR
2)Bona Naturale(this look is not for everyone).

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## TimDavis

One of the nicest jobs I've ever done. 150 sq. metres. Gelantipy Hall, East Gippsland, Vic. 120 years old jarah in one section and 90 year old jarah added later.
Fine sanded then 1 coat (3 litres) of Lobasol penetrating oil. Nothing more.
Not sure how the floor looks now but I left several tins of maintenance oil and instructions on upkeep; "keep pouring the oil in".
Never been called back over 2 years.

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## TimDavis

Used same technique on recycled brushbox in an architects own home. Very fussy customer. He is as happy as a pig in mud with the finish. Makes for a nice change from the "laminex" perfect finishes I've been doing for years. Looks just like a freshly oiled deck only interior.
These floors need regular maintenance. The architect just soaks a lambswool pad with the thin maintenance oil and pushes it around the house wherever the floor looks a bit dry or worn, doesn't even move any furniture. Oil dries almost instantly, very little effort. Any scratches, no drama, just light sand and rub some oil in.
To my way of thinking this is what timber floors are about; a natural, lived on, floor with real character rather than mirror finish glistening perfect dining table like surfaces people are often too scared to walk on.

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## TimDavis

It's not all roses with this stuff. Did the Buchan Hall the same way. Oldies didn't want "that sticky Estapol stuff", can't ballroom dance and slide on it.
They held the annual footy club ball on it a week or two later. I think they wore their footy boots to the do. Gallons of spilt beer, dancing, cavorting and who knows what else took its toll. To cap it off they washed it down the next day with hot water, dishwashing detergent and then the fire hose.
I went back later and the floor surface was wrecked. Worse than before I started sanding. No one much seemed to mind though. Its only a floor.

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## bcaso

Wow - How privalaged do I feel.  A fantastic 3rd post by "THE MASTER"  Thanks for your advice.  Oh, by the way it's not  just a project -It's my life :Doh:  
I do like the sound of Bonna trafic.  I want to make sure when I have someone over I do not have to give a cr@p if they leave their shoes on ( I hate going to someones house and having to take my shoes off.....or be told to) ESPECIALLY fake floating floors 
I love the look of the timber and love the gum vains, wood grain and knots(and smell)  Someone should bottle the smell. :Biggrin:  
Thanks for the great advice! :2thumbsup:

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## TimDavis

I do sometimes take my profession seriously. It's just that occasionaly some people become so precious about their homes and in my case their timber floors. This forum not only gives me a chance to part with some of my limited knowledge and offer some help, but also express the frustration I sometimes feel at peoples expectations of what a floor should look like. Life's not perfect and plenty of times I've felt like screaming; for christ's sake its only a floor!!!

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## bcaso

But soooooooooooo expensive . 
I hear avg home is upwards of $15k. That's probably why! 
But I do hear you!!

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## bcaso

Hi There,Can any one tell me when an internal door is hung over floor boards, when the floor is sanded and then polished (poly) does the floor level generally stay the same or come  up a little.  I know someone will say....it depends on how much you sand it back.All I want to know is generally.Thanks

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## Bloss

> Hi There,Can any one tell me when an internal door is hung over floor boards, when the floor is sanded and then polished (poly) does the floor level generally stay the same or come  up a little.  I know someone will say....it depends on how much you sand it back.All I want to know is generally.Thanks

  Depends on how much you sand back . . .  :Biggrin:  But generally it will be stay a little lower (ie: the gap below the door will be bigger) - the sanding takes off much more than the coating puts back on.  :2thumbsup:

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