# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Tips for laying deck boards

## BallinaNSW

Hi guys 
Me again  :Shock:  
So I've worked very hard over the last 4 weekends and have decking subframe almost complete. Looking at approx 36sqm so a decent size. Will have the subframe finished this weekend and I am starting to think about laying the deck boards. 
Going with Merbau. Unsure to go with 90 or 140mm. Any particular pros and cons of either? Wife likes the look of the wider boards. 
My main question(s) is in relation to actually laying the decking. My thinking is to start the first deck board along the edge of the house and work back towards the fence from there. Is that the best way to attack it? 
Also I've seen mention on here about screwing down every 5th or 6th board and then filling in the gaps. I'm not quite sure I understand this? Can anyway explain it in (very) simple terms, or better yet link me to a Youtube video? 
Any other hints tips or tricks on how to lay decking more than appreciated.

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## phild01

Can't see from that pic but have you left a termite inspection gap between the deck and house.

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## davegol

I've done it by laying all the boards from a wall backwards, and also by laying every 5th board. 
Definitely the latter method is better. 
It forces you to measure accurately the position of ALL the boards BEFORE you even start laying a single one, and will keep you dead even all the way through.
It also allows you to know if you're going to finish on a half board (and to adjust accordingly).
Remember the boards aren't exactly the same width so a few mm of difference creeps in and before long you're laying diagonals.
Definitely do it this way.

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## BallinaNSW

> I've done it by laying all the boards from a wall backwards, and also by laying every 5th board. 
> Definitely the latter method is better. 
> It forces you to measure accurately the position of ALL the boards BEFORE you even start laying a single one, and will keep you dead even all the way through.
> It also allows you to know if you're going to finish on a half board (and to adjust accordingly).
> Remember the boards aren't exactly the same width so a few mm of difference creeps in and before long you're laying diagonals.
> Definitely do it this way.

  So I fix the board in place along the house and then fix the 5th board in place by measuring from both ends of the first board? And then fill in the 3 in between? 
Apologies for needing step by step  :Doh:

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## BallinaNSW

> Can't see from that pic but have you left a termite inspection gap between the deck and house.

  Left about a 20mm gap

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## droog

> 5th board in place by measuring from both ends of the first board?

  Measure at each end and flick a chalk line so that every fifth board is straight, and measure from the first board the 5th, 10th, 15th, etc so you are not multiplying any errors as you go.
Once every 5th board is in filling in between is easy using wedges to get even gaps with the infill boards.

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## phild01

> And then fill in the 3 in between?

  You are close to the ground, me, I would leave more than a 3mm gap.

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## DavoSyd

> So I fix the board in place along the house and then fix the 5th board in place by measuring from both ends of the first board? And then fill in the 3 in between? 
> Apologies for needing step by step

  to alternative is to lay outside in and cut the last board to width if you don't get the board count correct. 
that way you can aim for a perfect 5mm gap on every board and then rip your final board (at the house) to whatever width looks appropriate ... 
keeping them parallel to the house is paramount though...

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## DavoSyd

i used these to ease my 'first timer' 'board wobble' blues...  https://www.irwin.com/tools/clamps/deck-tool-kit

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## BallinaNSW

Ok thanks makes sense now.  
Any opinions on 90mm versus 140mm merbau?

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## davegol

so I used these (get 2 sets - much faster) to get my screw holes perfectly spaced. They also give you a 5mm gap which is great for a low deck. https://www.bunnings.com.au/the-deck...-pack_p2410303 
Start from the outside (like DavoSyd suggests) and mark out (on outer joists) the position of your outer board. Chalk line to all joists.
Then measure in 5 * deck board width + correct number of 5mm gaps and mark again. Chalk line to all joists. 
Repeat until you've covered the whole joist (to the house).

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## DavoSyd

> Any opinions on 90mm versus 140mm merbau?

  where you getting it from is important... maybe talk to them? 
have you seen 140mm laid boards in person?

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## Bushy

Looks like a good job, well done considering your experience.
90mm are far less likely to cup, particularly as you are so close to ground. If you go 140 you will have to go thicker depth (much more costly). 
Don't forget your "protectadeck"; https://www.bunnings.com.au/protecta...joist_p0915409
+ the 90 x as well.

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## r3nov8or

Given the large expanses of your deck, I would suggest 140 boards will look best.

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## Bushy

See Metrix's post # 9 for picture reference to the "5 board method" 
Guess you are using "Blocklayer", down under "deck boards" there is a box to click-"3,4,5, etc. boards marked in red", does the calculation for you.

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## BallinaNSW

> Looks like a good job, well done considering your experience.
> 90mm are far less likely to cup, particularly as you are so close to ground. If you go 140 you will have to go thicker depth (much more costly). 
> Don't forget your "protectadeck"; https://www.bunnings.com.au/protecta...joist_p0915409
> + the 90 x as well.

  Is this a must? Was tossing up whether to do it or not, but I guess for the minimal expense it is better to be safe than sorry. 
Thank you for the compliment! It is a bit "unpretty" in a few areas but it's very solid, and hoping the deck boards will hide any small inaccuracies. I'm actually chuffed with how it's turned out so far. Hard work though!

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## BallinaNSW

> See Metrix's post # 9 for picture reference to the "5 board method"

  Sorry, not quite sure what you mean here? 
Thank you for the blocklayer tip, I had missed that. That deck calculator has been a god send, especially for setting out the joist centres.

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## BallinaNSW

Is one of these any great advantage?  https://www.demak.com.au/shop/hardwa...various-sizes/

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## DavoSyd

also - what screws are you going to use? DEMAK has the Wurth ASSY ones - very good.

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## BallinaNSW

> also - what screws are you going to use? DEMAK has the Wurth ASSY ones - very good.

  I won't lie....I haven't given any thought to screws. I just assumed I would pick up some stainless steel screws from Bunnings. No?

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## pharmaboy2

Best ones with small heads I f0und at Bunnings we’re the powers ones -  woodpeckers.  The wurth ones are so expensive ......

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## BallinaNSW

> Best ones with small heads I f0und at Bunnings we’re the powers ones -  woodpeckers.  The wurth ones are so expensive ......

  
Could you link please? 
Or is something like this OK?  https://www.bunnings.com.au/zenith-8...-pack_p2400052

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## DavoSyd

these are the powers woodpeckers:  https://www.betterhardware.com.au/po...ng-screws.html 
(cheaper than the green shed)  https://www.bunnings.com.au/powers-w...5-250_p2400024

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## pharmaboy2

You get one of the macsim 6g I think countersink and pre drill holes - assuming going into pine joists, and use an impact driver for that gauge screw as well 
I’m not confident in zenith anything ....

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## r3nov8or

> also - what screws are you going to use? DEMAK has the Wurth ASSY ones - very good.

  I recommend these too.

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## pharmaboy2

Soz, just realised the reason wurth were so expensive for me, was they were around a salt water pool and I needed 316.  304 are competitively priced for the wurth (the woodpeckers look like a copy by powers of the wurth) - My timber cladding came with the wurths

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## Bushy

> Is this a must?

  It's up to you but I would not dream of attaching boards without joist(/bearer) protector of some sort, but i always build for the long term. I mean all your bearers and joists are pine and already subject to premature deterioration due to being so close to ground with out any additional drainage, so the sub frames life is probably already compromised.   

> Sorry, not quite sure what you mean here?

  Sorry meant to add this link: https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/l...boards-113725/   

> That deck calculator has been a god send

  Don't forget " If you've benefited from this free service please consider supporting"                   https://www.bluedragon.org/donate/

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## Bushy

> I won't lie....I haven't given any thought to screws. I just assumed I would pick up some stainless steel screws from Bunnings. No?

   NO 
Can't fault these especially for the price (on special) $99 a k. Have driven in over 2.5k now and only broke one during an experiment/trial on scrap, can't see why you need 316. ;  https://www.scrooz.com.au/10g-x-50mm-304-stainless-decking-screws-box-1000

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## DavoSyd

> NO 
> Can't fault these especially for the price (on special) $99 a k;  https://www.scrooz.com.au/10g-x-50mm...crews-box-1000

  some people say you are best using something that has deeper embedment than a 50mm screw. 
I'm personally glad i used 60mm ones - my pine seemed very soft!

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## Bushy

> You get one of the macsim 6g I think countersink and pre drill holes - assuming going into pine joists, and use an impact driver for that gauge screw as well 
> I’m not confident in zenith anything ....

  Thought 10g minimum. you might be thinking of these; https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400117

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## Bushy

> some people say you are best using something that has deeper embedment than a 50mm screw. 
> I'm personally glad i used 60mm ones - my pine seemed very soft!

  Ah! Another unforeseen (at least by me) fault with pine. 
You may well be correct Davo. :2thumbsup:

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## Bushy

So consensus says either or:  https://www.scrooz.com.au/10g-x-65mm...crews-box-1000   $119.48 ...on special too.    https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400118  ...x2=$146  https://www.betterhardware.com.au/po...ng-screws.html ... x4=$240  https://www.demak.com.au/shop/hardwa...-pre-drilling/
.. x4=$396
I can't see how you could get away with no pre-drilling (ie using a smart bit), unless, of course, your deck boards were pine too. :Shock:   :No:

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## Bushy

> Is one of these any great advantage?  https://www.demak.com.au/shop/hardwa...various-sizes/

  Most of the seasoned deckies here say no, make some wedges. I also cut some angle iron that was the same thickness as my board gap, to use now and then when needed.

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## pharmaboy2

> Thought 10g minimum. you might be thinking of these; https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400117

  Actually, I was referring to this  https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-8...-tool_p2360697   :Wink: . So 8g not 6g

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## phild01

> , unless, of course, your deck boards were pine too.

  Well, knotless pine decking is my preference.  Hardwood is great but I am over 6 monthly maintenance regime.  Pine is fine with a solid paint finish that you set and forget for a much longer time.
Then of course there is composite.

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## METRIX

> I won't lie....I haven't given any thought to screws. I just assumed I would pick up some stainless steel screws from Bunnings. No?

   NO,  
Don't bother with Bunnings screws they are overpriced for what they are, also don't bother paying for 316 stainless unless you are close to salt water or swimming pool, 304 is fine for everything else, also I wouldnt wast my time with the woodpeckers, go for the standard Type17 decking screws, I preference the TRIM head versions because the heads are small, I haven't had issues using these screws, you can go for the 10G if you like but personally I think the heads are too large and detract from the look of the timber. 
I preference the Powers screws over other brands because they work and are not a rip off, team them up with a genuine smartbit and you will get great results, don't bother getting the Macsim smartbit equivalent (the yellow one from Bunnings) because they use a poor quality rubber O ring, and the O ring leaves a mark on all the boards which later has to be removed, the genuine SmartBit does not leave this mark as they use a better quality rubber O ring. 
Macsim need to change their type of rubber because they have always left a mark on the boards. 
Here is one of their bundles, you can choose other bundles with just the screws and smartbit, the deckhands are ok for first timers, but don't last long drilling through them  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000-Dec...frcectupt=true

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## Bushy

> Actually, I was referring to this  https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-8...-tool_p2360697  . So 8g not 6g

  Soz way off track.

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## Bushy

> Well, knotless pine decking is my preference.  Hardwood is great but I am over 6 monthly maintenance regime.  Pine is fine with a solid paint finish that you set and forget for a much longer time.
> Then of course there is composite.

  Couldn't live with "pine and paint" nor composite at my own home.
If i can't give 2-3 hours on a 6 monthly basis, I don't deserve a beautiful timber deck.
If close to the ground... tiles, patterned concrete would be the go.
Though can understand if someone works with building, maintaining decks for a long period they may be sick of it. Personally I'm enjoying the challenge of rebuilding my verandah, but i don't want to do it again! Maybe,unless i had someone competent enough to put in all the screws!!

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## BallinaNSW

Wow guys some great info,  will read through properly tomorrow.

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## BallinaNSW

> NO,  
> Don't bother with Bunnings screws they are overpriced for what they are, also don't bother paying for 316 stainless unless you are close to salt water or swimming pool, 304 is fine for everything else, also I wouldnt wast my time with the woodpeckers, go for the standard Type17 decking screws, I preference the TRIM head versions because the heads are small, I haven't had issues using these screws, you can go for the 10G if you like but personally I think the heads are too large and detract from the look of the timber. 
> I preference the Powers screws over other brands because they work and are not a rip off, team them up with a genuine smartbit and you will get great results, don't bother getting the Macsim smartbit equivalent (the yellow one from Bunnings) because they use a poor quality rubber O ring, and the O ring leaves a mark on all the boards which later has to be removed, the genuine SmartBit does not leave this mark as they use a better quality rubber O ring. 
> Macsim need to change their type of rubber because they have always left a mark on the boards. 
> Here is one of their bundles, you can choose other bundles with just the screws and smartbit, the deckhands are ok for first timers, but don't last long drilling through them  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000-Dec...frcectupt=true

  Hmmm this seems good value. Would you recommend? Although I think I'll need over 2000 screws

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## DavoSyd

> Hmmm this seems good value. Would you recommend? Although I think I'll need over 2000 screws

  contact them via their website and they'll probably be able to put together a bundled of your own design:  https://www.betterhardware.com.au/de...d-1000qty.html 
talk to them about all your SS balustrade items as well  :Wink:

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## METRIX

> Hmmm this seems good value. Would you recommend? Although I think I'll need over 2000 screws

  Yes they are good value, and the screws are good quality, I have used thousands and thousands of them without and dramas, you will get the occasional one snap, but that is only when you force them into something they shouldn't be going into, same as any stainless screw irrespective of the brand because stainless is softer than regular steel screws, if the screw won't go in for some reason, stop and work out what is stopping it, I will dispose of that screw, work out whats causing the issue and use a fresh screw as you would have weakened the other screw. 
If you go for TRIM screws be careful to treat the smartbit without abusing it, because you will snap the drill bits (they give you spares) and more spares can be purchased from Bunnings, it's cheaper to buy a whole new system cost around $29 at Bunnings, as the sell 5 bits for $19, may as well pay the extra $10 and get a 2nd bit. 
The drill bits are what they call Powrebolic which means they have had a lot of the shaft ground out, so it allows for the timber to escape the hole really quick without heating the bit up, this is why you need to be a bit gentler with them than you would be with a regular drill bit, you will see how quick these drill bits penetrate the timber because of the way the bit is made. 
Saying that I have drilled so many thousand of these using the 8G smartbit (which is what you need for the 9G TRIM screws) and probably break one bit per thousand screws which is pretty good, you get three bits in total with each smartbit. 
I have read on here the countersink bit doesn't last a deck, that's rubbish, the countersink bit is hardened steel, I have had them last a few decks of Merbau (few thousand screws per deck)  and the bit was still sharp, spotted gum will wear the bit out quicker as it's so hard, the only way they won't last a deck is if you abuse them and hit things you shouldn't just like any other countersink bit.  Smart-Bit&reg Pre-drilling and Countersinking Tool for Wood | Starborn Industries, Inc. 
Let us know which product you choose, and how you get on using it.

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## Bushy

After breaking 2 bits in the first week of screwing down my Spotted Gum decided to try thefastenerwarehouse bits as had used them before and used them for framing screw holes without drama. 
Found Jobber Drill Bit Metric 135 Split Point HSS Titanium Coated Twist Alpha  3.7mm x 70mm (39mm Flute) $14 for pack of 5 (you can select pack quantity) to be an excellent replacement, you may have to clear the bit one more time per hole but have used the one bit for the next 2000 odd screws and still going strong. 
Keeping in mind I'm drilling into hardwood joists the full length of the screw. "Clearance" drilling (19-22mm) should not be as prone to breaking. 
The CarbiTool smart bit (https://www.demak.com.au/shop/hardwa...ink-drill-bit/)  is faultless but the bits  also have a parabolic flute and are also to brittle like the Smart-Bit countersink mentioned above.

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## BallinaNSW

Is there any alternative to protectadeck that would be cheaper? It's going to work out well over $300 to cover the subframe. Is there any product I can paint on that will provide adequate protection?

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## Bushy

Protectadeck is the most used and recommended here on the forum, some have used a type of tar paper i think, but it doesn't seal around screw holes.  The bitumen paint is good, although still questionable about screw penetrations, but seeing your in a hurry it would be a nightmare getting everywhere as it takes a while to dry. Some of the pros should chime in.
Who said deck building was cheap. 
 Take it in mind what I indicated before; your deck may rot out from under before it rots out from above without proteecadeck. I would stand to be corrected though.

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## DavoSyd

um, so how much did you spend on the subframe? and you want to cheap out on protecting it?

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## DavoSyd

have you even started doing the $$$ sums on your SS wiring?

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## DavoSyd

but yeah you can use alcor & bituminous paint instead of deckprotecta

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## BallinaNSW

Cheers guys. Yeah not the time to cheap out I guess. Approx half the deck is now covered with a flyover patio. Does this area need protectadeck even though it won't see any rain? 
SS wiring,  you've lost me in afraid.

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## BallinaNSW

Also I genuinely appreciate all the advice and the time taken to reply. As a novice it is great to be able to seek advice and get feedback.

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## r3nov8or

> Cheers guys. Yeah not the time to cheap out I guess. Approx half the deck is now covered with a flyover patio. Does this area need protectadeck even though it won't see any rain? 
> SS wiring,  you've lost me in afraid.

  Depends on your location/aspect. I have a 3.6m verandah and occasionally rain will be blown in to cover the whole deck

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## METRIX

> Cheers guys. Yeah not the time to cheap out I guess. Approx half the deck is now covered with a flyover patio. Does this area need protectadeck even though it won't see any rain? 
> SS wiring,  you've lost me in afraid.

  Make sure to protect the exposed section, the rest is up to you, think of the money you saved doing this yourself, spend the money to get the right protection for the timber.

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## BallinaNSW

Yep just gonna protect it all. My wife has just said pretty much exactly what you have  :Blush7:

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## Bushy

> have you even started doing the $$$ sums on your SS wiring?

  Davo you might have missed trhe deck is only a couple of hundred mills of the ground....it won't need ss wires.

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## DavoSyd

SS wiring = what you gonna string between your posts? 
or is it just blanks l

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## DavoSyd

sorry, was thinking of balcony builds...

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## Bushy

> SS wiring = what you gonna string between your posts? 
> or is it just blanks l

  The posts face a palling fence, the deck is virtually on the ground! Why on earth would you "string SS wire"?

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## BallinaNSW

Morning guys. Went to Bunnings first thing and bought the protectadeck. That's today's project. Do I just clout nail it in place every meter or so? 
And back to screws.....I have the deck boards arriving tomorrow and would like to crack into it straight away. Are these ok? Bushy linked them earlier in the thread. Reason being they are available in Bunnings so I don't need to wait for delivery.   https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400118

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## DavoSyd

> Morning guys. Went to Bunnings first thing and bought the protectadeck. That's today's project. Do I just clout nail it in place every meter or so?

  i used SS staples with mine.  http://www.bipdecking.com.au/wp-cont...D-Brochure.jpg

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## droog

> Are these ok?

  They are the ones I used, 2000 screws. 
They are not trim head, I am very happy with them. Only broke 2 but due to my technique not the screws.

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## davegol

I used this stuff instead of protecta-deck. much cheaper and never had issues with it.  https://www.bunnings.com.au/consolid...ourse_p1090520 
can add some bitumen paint as well if you like.

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## METRIX

> I used this stuff instead of protecta-deck. much cheaper and never had issues with it.  https://www.bunnings.com.au/consolid...ourse_p1090520 
> can add some bitumen paint as well if you like.

  Problem with using that, is it's made from Polyethylene film, it will degrade with UV exposure as it's designed to be embedded into mortar or inside brick cavities. 
Once it starts to break down it's pretty much useless.

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## phild01

> I used this stuff instead of protecta-deck. much cheaper and never had issues with it.  https://www.bunnings.com.au/consolid...ourse_p1090520 
> can add some bitumen paint as well if you like.

  In time it slowly breaks down from UV as Metrix says, I have noticed this myself.  But the shadows provided by the boards might delay the onset and at least extend the joist life by that many years then the paint will do some more. 
There is the Polycourse aluminium foil cored flashing as well. I reckon this would be a better choice as while the top layer will break down, the bottom layer should stay stable protected by the foil: https://www.bunnings.com.au/consolid...ourse_p1090536 
I have had great success with Alcor flashing which is priced similar to protecta deck stuff.

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## Bushy

> I used this stuff instead of protecta-deck. much cheaper and never had issues with it.  https://www.bunnings.com.au/consolid...ourse_p1090520 
> can add some bitumen paint as well if you like.

  It has been argued on here before that this stuff doesn't seal around screws like protectadeck.

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## Bushy

> Morning guys. Went to Bunnings first thing and bought the protectadeck. That's today's project. Do I just clout nail it in place every meter or so?

  Staples here too, felt that clout heads may interfere with screws to much. Don't be stingy with the staples, you need to snap a chalk line down the middle of your joist/protectadeck and you don't want it moving, staples are very cheap. 
 You need a hot line to someone with experience, you'll be wearing a path to green shed and not on the job. Where's all your bookmarked hints and tips from when you did all this research?   

> I have the deck boards arriving tomorrow...

  You are supposed to, _at least_, coat the boards all round with a wood preservative prior to fixing;  _"_One  coat  of  a  _water  repellent  preservative_  or  an  oil  based  primer  plus  one  coat  of  the  selected  finish  shall  be  applied  to  the  top  surface  of  joists  and  to  all  surfaces  of  decking  (including  cut  ends)  prior  to  fixing._" https://www.qbcc.qld.gov.au/sites/de...ecks_final.pdf _ *Cutek Wood Preservative  *  
is the best for this especially in your situation, followed by Cutek Extreme top coat after the boards are laid.

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## DavoSyd

> *Cutek Wood Preservative  *

   

> How to use Cutek Wood Preservative?
> All cutting, drilling, moulding and planning should bedone before treatment.

   that might extend the job-time a bit?

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## BallinaNSW

Thank again.  
I think I should stop asking questions now. Don't want to wear out my goodwill! 
Btw I've gone ahead and nailed it down. Didn't have staples or a gun.

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## Bushy

> How to use Cutek Wood Preservative?
> All cutting, drilling, moulding and planning should be done before treatment.

  What happens here is, after "moulding" (ie cutting around posts), resaw ends, to suit length etc. are done with a small pot of Cutek Wood Preservative at the miter saw, as with drilling  :Pedantic ON:  I had an even smaller pot that i dipped each screw in.....I know    :Pedantic OFF:

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## Bushy

> Thank again.  
> I think I should stop asking questions now.

  It's what the forum is for, don't listen when I rant.

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## DavoSyd

do many people use wood preserver with hardwood, like merbau?

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## Bushy

Well for best results and longevity they should.
 If you precoat the boards as soon as you get them (of course they should be properly seasoned/kiln dried) it will prevent, or greatly reduce at worst, ends splitting, warping, bowing and cupping.  It is the greatest protection before the first top coat after the boards are laid  as it will stop moisture entering the wood (the greatest enemy of exterior wood) and all at ll times it will prevent mould, fungal decay and even termites on susceptible timbers. 
Coating the ends of boards when cut to size is the most important treatment as end are most at risk, the wood cells here will conduct moisture (and oil incidentally) as they used to. 
If any deck board is only coated on top after installation, the undersides, ends and sides are still absorbing moisture and drying, this cycle is the beginning of the end for external timber. 
With Marbau/Kwila it is arguable but all this hosing off for weeks or months has got to be degenerating the wood. I could not bring myself to do it.
 Another reason to buy Aussie plantation hardwood decking.

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## BallinaNSW

I have gone with 90x19mm merbau. Joists are 90x45 treated pine.  
Should I get 65mm or 50mm deck screws?

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## Bushy

> I have gone with 90x19mm merbau. Joists are 90x45 treated pine.  
> Should I get 65mm or 50mm deck screws?

  The consensuses before seemed to come to a 65mm conclusion but METRIX promoted the 53mm trim head (which you now can't get) so 65 seems to be the best bet, but I would bow to a higher authority. 
Consensuses also says 10g and don't forget your smartbit to the same gauge. Practice on some offcut joist and deck board packing (if it's the same board) before you start on deck. Start screwing down some where not to obvious, as you will improve your technique as time passes.

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## METRIX

> METRIX promoted the 53mm trim head (which you now can't get)

  You can get the 53mm Powers screws, pick them up from their ebay store, I have been buying from them for the last 10 years, they are always in stock. 
There is nothing wrong with using 53mm screws when using 19mm boards, this leaves around 34 - 35mm embedded in the joist, if your boards can dislodge two screws every 450mm embedded 35mm then you have a serious problem with the boards or the build of the deck. 
I have been using 50mm variants forever for decks and haven't had them pull out, if you use wide boards or choose 22mm thick narrow boards then I would use 65mm versions.  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000-Dec...item33c1e15a59  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2000-Dec...item4b0b184b28  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3000-Dec...item4b0b186709

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## BallinaNSW

Cheers guys. Appreciated as always. 
Is this smartbit recommended? https://www.bunnings.com.au/p-n-10g-...l-bit_p6320597 
And a very silly question I'm sure..... if I go with say 9G screws, should I get an 8G pre-drilling smartbit, ie slightly smaller?  
Circumstances mean I won't get to start laying the decking until Saturday now. I'll make sure to update with some progress photos as and when I've actually made some progress haha

----------


## METRIX

> Morning guys. Went to Bunnings first thing and bought the protectadeck. That's today's project. Do I just clout nail it in place every meter or so? 
> And back to screws.....I have the deck boards arriving tomorrow and would like to crack into it straight away. Are these ok? Bushy linked them earlier in the thread. Reason being they are available in Bunnings so I don't need to wait for delivery.   https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400118

  Those particular screws are ok, I have used them on a job and they work well only because they are of TORX design, they used to have 8G versions and they were terrible, the heads stripped out in no time.

----------


## METRIX

> Cheers guys. Appreciated as always. 
> Is this smartbit recommended? https://www.bunnings.com.au/p-n-10g-...l-bit_p6320597 
> And a very silly question I'm sure..... if I go with say 9G screws, should I get an 8G pre-drilling smartbit, ie slightly smaller?  
> Circumstances mean I won't get to start laying the decking until Saturday now. I'll make sure to update with some progress photos as and when I've actually made some progress haha

  If you go for TRIM head screws use the 8G smartbit, if you go for 10G screws use a 10G smartbit,  https://www.bunnings.com.au/starborn...l-bit_p6360118  https://www.bunnings.com.au/starborn...-pack_p6360124  https://www.bunnings.com.au/starborn...l-bit_p6360119  https://www.bunnings.com.au/starborn...-pack_p6360125

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## BallinaNSW

Fantastic! Thanks Metrix. Have a good Monday everyone. I better do some work at my actual job so I can pay for this deck!  :Biggrin:

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## BallinaNSW

Apologies in advance, I may be overthinking things here.... 
Trim head decking screws are primarily used for a "neater" finish, is that correct? If so the trim head ones I can find all seem to be 8g. Is this thick enough, in your guys' expert opinion? Joists are 385 centers if that makes any difference. 
Thanks again!

----------


## Bushy

Originally Posted by *Bushy*  
  METRIX promoted the 53mm trim head (which you now can't get)"     

> You can get the 53mm Powers screws, pick them up from their ebay store

  I only said "you can't get" 'cause he wanted to buy immediately, that is not wait for postage.

----------


## Bushy

> Apologies in advance, I may be overthinking things here.... 
> Trim head decking screws are primarily used for a "neater" finish, is that correct?

       YES.   

> If so the trim head ones I can find all seem to be 8g. Is this thick enough, in your guys' expert opinion?

  I'm no expert but as stated before in this thread 10 gauge is the _consensus._ Have always read 10 gauge is the recommended gauge. METRIX uses 9 gauge in a particular brand without any issues, so they must be OK.  
METRIX said these were OK  https://www.bunnings.com.au/macsim-1...-pack_p2400118 ....do you read your answers. 
I am only throwing in my 2cents here in case you need to buy urgently and/or to save you yet another trip to green shed.

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## BallinaNSW

> YES.  
> do you read your answers. 
> .

  Someone's cranky today  :Shock:  
It was more I was trying to confirm the difference in trim head and standard.....as in that the trim head offered a nicer finish, but maybe at the expense of some strenght seeing as the gauge was smaller

----------


## METRIX

> Apologies in advance, I may be overthinking things here.... 
> Trim head decking screws are primarily used for a "neater" finish, is that correct? If so the trim head ones I can find all seem to be 8g. Is this thick enough, in your guys' expert opinion? Joists are 385 centers if that makes any difference. 
> Thanks again!

  Correct, the finish you want is up to you, the Powers screws have a 9G thread with a 8G TRIM Head, other branded TRIM screws have a cheaper 8G thread, that's why I would not use them.
The 10G screws have a 10G thread and a 10G head and you need to use the 10G smartbit.

----------


## BallinaNSW

> It's up to you but I would not dream of attaching boards without joist(/bearer) protector of some sort, but i always build for the long term. I mean all your bearers and joists are pine and already subject to premature deterioration due to being so close to ground with out any additional drainage, so the sub frames life is probably already compromised.   
> Sorry meant to add this link: https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/l...boards-113725/   
> Don't forget " If you've benefited from this free service please consider supporting"                   https://www.bluedragon.org/donate/

  Me again  :Yikes2:  
I didn't get to start this week as planned so I will be starting laying on Saturday. 
I have had a really good read of Metrix post #9 on this thread https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/l...boards-113725/ 
I'm planning to lay every 4th or 5th board as suggested and fill in the gaps.  
I've however got myself in a bit of a tizzy over keeping my screw lines straight. The issue is that my joists are not perfectly in line, so a jig like a deckhand won't work as far as I can tell? They are not misaligned by much but maybe 5/10mm discrepancies due to joist hanger install. I really want the look of the deck not to be compromised by a drunken meandering screw line. 
Assuming I start my 1st board parallel to the house and then lay the 5th board parallel to that, and so on - how do I ensure I end up with a straight line of screws (given that my joists are a bit off)? 
Any advice appreciated. Pics and/or videos greatly encouraged haha

----------


## droog

Do a check of the joists first before laying any boards to see if you can get straight lines all the way across, the screws don’t have to be perfectly central.
All you need from the check above is the location of this line at the first and last board just to confirm if you need to start or finish off centre at the ends of the joists.
Lay your first board setting the screws aligned from above as well as the last board.
Lay every fifth board in between the first and last using string line to set the screw locations. 
i made a guide template using an off cut of white coreflute that bridged between 5 boards as a straightedge with screw locations marked on it to mark and drill the four boards in between. 
Fill in the boards in between, use wedges or other spacers to set the gaps and use the template above to guide the screw locations.

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## BallinaNSW

Ok makes sense. Yep can definitely get a straight string line through the joists,  they are just not aligned well enough to rely on as a guide on their own.  
If I use wedges as spacers there is obviously a chance the gap will be slightly different from row to row.do I just accept this as part of the build? I think I may be looking for a level of perfection which isn't achievable,  especially given my novice skills.

----------


## Bushy

"Cranky" here (I wonder why???)   

> Ok makes sense. Yep can definitely get a straight string line through the joists,  they are just not aligned well enough to rely on as a guide on their own.

  *Back in post 65;* "you need to snap a chalk line down the middle of your joist/protectadeck".
 Use dark chalk so it won't rub off, this will give you a straight line to follow (using rule, straight edge, yardstick). If some your joists are badly bowed you may have to think twice about butting boards on those, they should have been blocked straight.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be laying boards with string lines everywhere.   

> If I use wedges as spacers there is obviously a chance the gap will be slightly different from row to row.do I just accept this as part of the build? I think I may be looking for a level of perfection which isn't achievable,  especially given my novice skills.

  There is an "essential reading" Thread in "Decking" re how the eye is the best measurement tool, or words to that effect. I.E. your eye will easily tell your of alignment, ie gap. I can't be bothered looking it up for you now.

----------


## DavoSyd

> I've however got myself in a bit of a tizzy over keeping my screw lines straight. The issue is that my joists are not perfectly in line, so a jig like a deckhand won't work as far as I can tell? They are not misaligned by much but maybe 5/10mm discrepancies due to joist hanger install.

  so the joists run at right angles to the deck boards yeah? 
so your fasteners should run along the joists - perfectly straight. 
in the direction of the red lines:   
if not able to do this with less than 10mm accuracy, *you need to unscrew each skewed joist hanger and re-align it.* 
remember - you have 40ish mm of meat per joist, so if a joist is 20mm off centre - you wont be screwing into the 'meat' of the joist - this is BAD. 
EDIT - but you can also settle for less than perfect screw lines  :Wink:  maybe it will waver a little bit - and as METRIX has told me before - "_Probably only you will notice it!"_

----------


## droog

> chance the gap will be slightly different from row to row.

  It is timber being used outside, it will take up moisture when wet and reduce it’s moisture content when the weather warms up. In doing so the timber will grow and shrink in size, even when coated it will still happen.
A perfect gap today will not always be perfect tomorrow it is part of using timber outside. 
You need to get it close enough for visual appeal it will never be and stay perfect.

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## BallinaNSW

> "Cranky" here (I wonder why???)
> .

   :Biggrin:  Next time you're in the Northern Rivers call around for a beer Bushy, by way of me extending the olive branch  :Wink:  
Thanks again everyone for all your help. I'm excited/nervous to get started. 
I think I need to get "perfect" out of my mind. But still strive to get as close to it as possible.

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## BallinaNSW

A start has been made. My joins aren't great   hoping they improve with practice. The boards are a lot more bowed than I expected,  slows things down.  Tomorrow is another day  :Smilie:

----------


## METRIX

> Ok makes sense. Yep can definitely get a straight string line through the joists,  they are just not aligned well enough to rely on as a guide on their own.  
> If I use wedges as spacers there is obviously a chance the gap will be slightly different from row to row.do I just accept this as part of the build? I think I may be looking for a level of perfection which isn't achievable,  especially given my novice skills.

  You won't get perfection because the boards are not perfect from the mill, you will get it close but boards can vary by a few mm here and there, just keep the starter boards spaced the same and straight and you limit the errors you can have. 
Are you putting a face board on the edge ?, have you left enough either overhang or set the first board back to allow for this ? 
I notice the boss checking what your doing, looks like she thinks your doing an ok job  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## Bushy

> My joins aren't great....

  Are you using a miter saw?
Clamp the board to the fence so the part where your cutting is square when you eventually pull it into place. 
If you are using the 4-5 board method , go through the boards to pick the straightest for that 4th-5th row.
When joining let the board to be joined lay naturally to be flush at the join, hard to explain but you'll get there.

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## BallinaNSW

Yep using a mitre saw but hadn't been clamping. Will do that tomorrow. Thanks

----------


## BallinaNSW

> You won't get perfection because the boards are not perfect from the mill, you will get it close but boards can vary by a few mm here and there, just keep the starter boards spaced the same and straight and you limit the errors you can have. 
> Are you putting a face board on the edge ?, have you left enough either overhang or set the first board back to allow for this ? 
> I notice the boss checking what your doing, looks like she thinks your doing an ok job

  Putting a face board along the bearer. I've set the first board flush with the bearer with no over hang.  
Yes, once the two bosses are happy I'm happy.

----------


## METRIX

> Yep using a mitre saw but hadn't been clamping. Will do that tomorrow. Thanks

  No Need for clamping, you will be there until Christmas, just make sure the board is sitting square in the saw, and flat on the table, you may need to set up some sort of additional board support, such as a roller stand to support the other end of the board. https://www.bunnings.com.au/toughbui...stand_p5820964 
Firstly make sure the saw is cutting square in all directions before you continue, what saw are you using ? 
You can always undercut the boards by 1 deg, so when the two joins come together the tops are touching and the bottoms are ever so slightly apart

----------


## METRIX

> Putting a face board along the bearer. I've set the first board flush with the bearer with no over hang.  
> Yes, once the two bosses are happy I'm happy.

  It looks neater to set the first board back the distance of the gap you have chosen, so when the face board goes on you have the same gap as the rest of the deck.
Alternatively you overhang the decking boards and allow another 5mm past to act as a drip guard.

----------


## BallinaNSW

Thank you. I have additional support set up for the longer boards.  
Green Bosch mitre saw. No idea of the model.  Pretty confident it's cutting square but I'll double triple check

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## METRIX

> Thank you. I have additional support set up for the longer boards.  
> Green Bosch mitre saw. No idea of the model.  Pretty confident it's cutting square but I'll double triple check

  I know the one 10"   
Definitely check the squareness, I have seen some of that particular saw come so far out of adjustment from the factory it wasn't funny, actually it's not a bad DIY saw, just NOISY AS.
What blade are you using, is it cutting the end cleanly ?

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## BallinaNSW

That's the one. Picked it up second hand.  
Using an Irwin blade. Cutting very clean

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## DavoSyd

looking good mate!

----------


## Bushy

> Yep using a mitre saw but hadn't been clamping. Will do that tomorrow. Thanks

  Didn't mean with that stupid supplied clamp, that would take to long.
I found with my second part bundle of boards, that were more bowed than the first, I just used a quick clamp between the board and the fence, to snug it up tight and square. Depends a lot on the boards.

----------


## BallinaNSW

Should I be using full lenght boards where I can? The area I'm working on is the small area that wraps around the corner of the house. It is 3.6m wide. I've been using smaller lenghts and joining somewhere on the run. but I do have some 4m, 4.8m, 5.1m and 5.7m boards. I've kinda been saving them for the longer run which is over 8m. 
Am I better off using full lenghts where I can in the smaller area?

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## BallinaNSW

Thanks bushy ref clamp tip. Some of the boards are very bowed others not much at all.   
Anyway cup of coffee and I'll get set up for the day.

----------


## Bushy

> Should I be using full lenght boards where I can? The area I'm working on is the small area that wraps around the corner of the house. It is 3.6m wide. I've been using smaller lenghts and joining somewhere on the run. but I do have some 4m, 4.8m, 5.1m and 5.7m boards. I've kinda been saving them for the longer run which is over 8m. 
> Am I better off using full lenghts where I can in the smaller area?

  You could probably use them where the deck will be most noticeable ie minimal to no joins where your coming out of door etc., though there's something to be said for regularly mixing lengths, an old chippy, who did quite a few decks, told me. 
"We used to start with a 900 and work up, then back to 900 etc." 
Probably goes without saying but be sure to skip joins on joists by at least two boards.

----------


## BallinaNSW

Slow progress again toady. Actually a little disheartened at how long it's going to take. Hopefully I get quicker. I know my attention to detail was waning in the afternoon too. 
Any way will spend some time with the little one and have a nice dinner and few drinks with my wife. Tomorrow is another day. �� 
Pretty happy with the quality of what I've done so far. Screw lines have wavered a bit but I'm just going to accept that as a pay off for doing it DIY.

----------


## droog

> Should I be using full lenght boards where I can?

  That depends on the rest of the job.
If doing that means in other areas you end up with lots of joins then no, if it doesn’t affect the rest of the job then yes full lengths are the go.

----------


## Sandshoes

Once it all done and oil youll never notice to screw lines, or at least your guests never will

----------


## phild01

> Should I be using full lenght boards where I can?

  I tend to analyse the outcome, I like the open area of entry traffic to be the best boards with minimal joins and reserve the poorer boards and joins to obvious out of view areas covered by planters, furniture etc.

----------


## METRIX

> Slow progress again toady. Actually a little disheartened at how long it's going to take. Hopefully I get quicker. I know my attention to detail was waning in the afternoon too. 
> Any way will spend some time with the little one and have a nice dinner and few drinks with my wife. Tomorrow is another day. �� 
> Pretty happy with the quality of what I've done so far. Screw lines have wavered a bit but I'm just going to accept that as a pay off for doing it DIY.

  How many square meters do you have to do ?, and how many have you done ?

----------


## BallinaNSW

Think it's 36 sqm in total. Have around 9ish done. Got a couple of hours done this morning but that'll pretty much be it until next Saturday.

----------


## BallinaNSW

The weekend's progress.  Thank you everyone for all your input. I appreciate it and know I've been a pain with my questions. This weekend has been testing but I'm happy that I can actually do it and will accept the slow progress.

----------


## BallinaNSW

I took a walk out this morning on what I have laid. There was morning dew on the boards, was maybe 6am. They felt a little sticky underfoot, which I hadn't noticed when they were dry yesterday. Is this the tannins coming through? And once I eventually oil the deck will that stickiness disappear?

----------


## METRIX

> I took a walk out this morning on what I have laid. There was morning dew on the boards, was maybe 6am. They felt a little sticky underfoot, which I hadn't noticed when they were dry yesterday. Is this the tannins coming through? And once I eventually oil the deck will that stickiness disappear?

  Yep, don't worry about it, it will all get washed away once you start hosing it after you finish it.

----------


## DavoSyd

just don't walk it onto your carpet inside!

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## bruceg93

Looking good. I did a similar size deck earlier this year. All the hard work is definitely worth it once you oil it and can use it!  
Se

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## BallinaNSW

That came up great Bruce! Looks lovely. 
I'm hoping I can use the deck before oiling? I have 5 weekends until my parent arrive for nearly a month. Laying the decking will eat up pretty much all that time I reckon, plus a bit of tidying up in the yard. I was planning to wait to oil it until after they've left so that we have a usable space while they're here. Any issue with that?

----------


## DavoSyd

> I'm hoping I can use the deck before oiling? I have 5 weekends until my parent arrive for nearly a month. Laying the decking will eat up pretty much all that time I reckon, plus a bit of tidying up in the yard. I was planning to wait to oil it until after they've left so that we have a usable space while they're here. Any issue with that?

  what coating are you planning on using?

----------


## BallinaNSW

> what coating are you planning on using?

  I haven't really given that a whole lot of thought (similar to a lot of things on this build!). I didn't realise there was such extensive choices. 
I've read Cutek is very good but I'm not particularly drawn to any brand or product. I would like something that doesn't darken the timber too much and retains its natural colours.

----------


## Bushy

> I was planning to wait to oil it until after they've left so that we have a usable space while they're here. Any issue with that?

  You're using Merbau/Kwila, the general thought is to age it for a time  anyway,  along with hosing it off periodically to get rid of the excess  tannins Merbau has . This procedure go's against everything I've   learned over the years for preserving wood, washing it over and over is degrading the wood, but 100's if not 1000's of  Merbau decks have been done like this by the masses to prep it for an acrylic/water based/paint type product.  With an oil product you don't have to do this. 
Ideally you should have precoated with Cutek Wood Preservative before laying as mentioned in post #71 in this thread. 
After the obvious spilled drinks, food make sure you wash the deck with a premium product like Cutek Proclean, the longer you leave it on (for stains and the like) the more it will clean. With their product it does not matter if it dries out, unlike other products with oxalic acid or homemade mixes. Cutek Proclean will also deglaze the timber ready to accept the oil. 
You are on the right track with Cutek preferably Extreme, maybe wait till it warms up a bit.

----------


## METRIX

> That came up great Bruce! Looks lovely. 
> I'm hoping I can use the deck before oiling? I have 5 weekends until my parent arrive for nearly a month. Laying the decking will eat up pretty much all that time I reckon, plus a bit of tidying up in the yard. I was planning to wait to oil it until after they've left so that we have a usable space while they're here. Any issue with that?

  Just don't have BBQ on the deck, or big food festival thing as anything you drop that's oily / greasy WILL stain the boards and can prove difficult to get out before you oil it.

----------


## METRIX

> I haven't really given that a whole lot of thought (similar to a lot of things on this build!). I didn't realise there was such extensive choices. 
> I've read Cutek is very good but I'm not particularly drawn to any brand or product. I would like something that doesn't darken the timber too much and retains its natural colours.

  There is a thousand different products out there, and a thousand different opinions on them. 
Irrespective of what you put o nit, they all need maintaining, I always preference an oil based product over water based for various reasons, there is 1000 threads on here about what oil to or not to use, hunt through them rather then starting the same conversation again.

----------


## BallinaNSW

Cheers metrix. 
Is it ok to have furntiure on it before oiling?

----------


## r3nov8or

Will this be another deck that never gets coated? Time will tell  :Smilie:

----------


## METRIX

> Cheers metrix. 
> Is it ok to have furntiure on it before oiling?

  Yep should be ok, just expect to have to clean possibly lightly sand before coating

----------


## BallinaNSW

Thanks again. My brother in law reckons that having furniture on it before oiling would lead to stains where the furniture legs were sitting. But he's far from an expert.

----------


## droog

What is the furniture made of?
Steel on raw timber will leave black stains. 
If it is timber furniture you should be ok

----------


## BallinaNSW

Timber furniture. Only a couple of lounges and a coffee table so far. The budget isn't allowing for any expensive purchases  :Doh:

----------


## DavoSyd

timber furniture might leave 'marks' but probably not permanent stains - but if it does get wet, don't let anything sit for long...  
(sometimes even just a gumleaf will leave a mark where the tannins sit)

----------


## BallinaNSW

Guess who's back  :Biggrin:  
Have made decent progress over the last week. I reckon I have 3 maybe 4 more days work to get the boards laid going at my current pace.  
Without wanting to open a can of worms I have a couple of oiling questions.  
Plan is to clean the deck and oil it pretty much as soon as it's all laid. Any disadvantage to this with merbau? 
The initial boards will have been down approx 3 weeks by the time I'm ready to oil. is there any advantage to sanding the whole thing before oiling it? 
And finally,  thinking about Cutek CD50.I want something that will retain the natural colour of the timber as much as possible and not tint it - is this a decent choice or is there better options (I appreciate this is a testing subject and plan to have a good read of the stickied thread tomorrow)

----------


## BallinaNSW

Progress pics for anyone that's interested.

----------


## Bushy

You have to have some tint in _any_ coating or the deck will go grey...the most common knowledge of coating decks. 
As far as I'm concerned and a lot of hours of research tells me, you can't go past the Cutek products. 
Again, as stated before in this thread; use Cutek Proclean, according to instructions, and you don't need/have to sand, you clean and deglaze in one process. 
With further study and talking to experts on this subject I am thoroughly convinced; the longer you leave timber subject to the environment without coating with a good product the quicker it will degrade. IMHO this business of hosing merbau for weeks, to be rid of bleeding, is turning a class 2 timber into a class 3 or worse.

----------


## BallinaNSW

Thanks Bushy. 
And in relation to sanding..........is there any advantage or need for it before oiling for the first time?

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## DavoSyd

depends how clean you have kept it? any pencil marks?

----------


## BallinaNSW

Yes. Lots and lots of pencil lines.  
Have only washed it off once so there is plenty of dirt and dust built up already.  
Maybe a light sand with something like 120 grit first?

----------


## DavoSyd

https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/c...ur-deck-75429/

----------


## METRIX

Rub the pencil marks off with an eraser, you will need to give it a clean with something before you coat it if it's going to be in use for a few weeks prior to oiling. 
Option 1: Cheaper option.
Clean the deck with Napisan to remove any grease and dirt (Napisan will remove some tannin but not a lot and will NOT brighten the boards), then use something like cabots deck clean (or any other oxalic acid based cleaner), to brighten up the boards, give it 24 hours then oil it straight away. 
Option 2: Expensive and more aggressive clean
If you really want the boards clean and stripped of tannin, use a Sodium metasilicate prep product like Cabots New timber Prep or Sikkens Cetol Tannin & oil remover, these act almost instantly you apply them, they will turn the boards quite dark and you MUST use an oxalic acid based cleaner after them to rebrighten the boards. 
Be warned the metasilicate products really strip a lot of tannins out, then once you apply the oxalic acid the timber becomes very light, IMO too light, Merbau ends up looking like Meranti and loses it's nice colouring appeal, it will darken over about 6 months in the open. 
I would do option 1 
The choice of oil, go through the many many many threads on here asking the same question again and again and again, you know what they say which decking oil ?, everyone has an opinion on that question  :Tongue:  :Tongue:  
IMO whatever you choose I would preference an Oil based product over a water based product day in day out, they are easier to maintain long term. 
Just bear in mind what you have built will need maintenance for the rest of it's life if you wan't it to stay looking good. 
This involves regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan,  
regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan, regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan, regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan, regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan, regular cleaning with mild detergent, high pressure washing, oiling, napisan and o it goes on forever like that, welcome to the world of being a slave to the deck.  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

----------


## BallinaNSW

> Option 1: Cheaper option.
> Clean the deck with Napisan to remove any grease and dirt (Napisan will remove some tannin but not a lot and will NOT brighten the boards), then use something like cabots deck clean (or any other oxalic acid based cleaner), to brighten up the boards, give it 24 hours then oil it straight away.

  Thank you (again!) for taking the time to reply. Having read the stickied thread and taking your advice above this is how I'm going to proceed. 
I'll go with Cutek as I need to make a decision on something. I actually emailed them some questions yesterday morning and they called me yesterday afternoon, fantastic customer service. I hope their product lives up to it!

----------


## DavoSyd

> I'll go with Cutek as I need to make a decision on something.

  after reading the sticky - surely Jim's advice would have swayed you to Flood Spa-N-Deck???

----------


## BallinaNSW

Mate that thread had more twists and turns than a cheap garden hose.

----------


## DavoSyd

> Mate that thread had more twists and turns than a cheap garden hose.

  lol, sorry I was half joking, stick with your decision!

----------


## BallinaNSW

> lol, sorry I was half joking, stick with your decision!

  Haha all good. Deck oil and deck screws..............two decisions that I didn't even realise would need to be made when I started, and I've since spent hours investigating both.  :Doh:   
In an other question - I will need to trim the ends of the boards that are overhanging the edge of the outside joists (I haven't put a picture frame border on, thought it was a bit above my skillset/timeframe). I've watched a couple of youtube videos and they make it look as simple as clamping a straight edge and trimming with a circular saw. Any tips I should look out for? Don't want to f**k it up at the last step.

----------


## METRIX

> Haha all good. Deck oil and deck screws..............two decisions that I didn't even realise would need to be made when I started, and I've since spent hours investigating both.   
> In an other question - I will need to trim the ends of the boards that are overhanging the edge of the outside joists (I haven't put a picture frame border on, thought it was a bit above my skillset/timeframe). I've watched a couple of youtube videos and they make it look as simple as clamping a straight edge and trimming with a circular saw. Any tips I should look out for? Don't want to f**k it up at the last step.

  I use a tracksaw with up to 10m of track joined to do it in one go, obviously yo udon;t have access to this so you can make a very accurate circular saw guide from plywood, I use these for cutting internal floors after removing walls. 
Use a sharp high toothed blade and you will get a good cut, then run over the top edge to round it orr either with a 3.2mm bit in a trimmer or sander will do .
You will find heaps of tutorials on how to make the guides, you can make then from anything, just use a long straight edge to get it accurate, the longer you can makle it the better, then run a string line from end to end and keep following it with the shorted guide clamped as you go.  .

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## Bushy

Could also add; it would be wise, with your  self confessed skill set, take the time to screw up some offcuts and do a  practice run with the circular saw guide that METRIX sugested.
Decent ply has straight edges from the factory. 
At the risk of stating the obvious; after you wash it with what ever you decide on, make sure to keep everyone off it till it is completely dry and your ready to oil.
Your Cutek contacts have probably already told you, but just in case; spread the CD-50 or Extreme very thinly. I used the lambswool applicator on the handle from green shed and a roller tray but squeezed/pressed as much oil out as possible. 
Have just finished the second leg of my build and extremely happy with the Cutek products.

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## BallinaNSW

> Could also add; it would be wise, with your  self confessed skill set, take the time to screw up some offcuts and do a  practice run with the circular saw guide that METRIX sugested.
> Decent ply has straight edges from the factory. 
> At the risk of stating the obvious; after you wash it with what ever you decide on, make sure to keep everyone off it till it is completely dry and your ready to oil.
> Your Cutek contacts have probably already told you, but just in case; spread the CD-50 or Extreme very thinly. I used the lambswool applicator on the handle from green shed and a roller tray but squeezed/pressed as much oil out as possible. 
> Have just finished the second leg of my build and extremely happy with the Cutek products.

  Thanks Bushy. Yep I plan to practice on some off cuts first. 
Got 3 samples from Cutek yesterday. It's between Autumntone or Sela Brown as the tint we will go for. They've given great info on application and maintenance, I can't recommended their customer service enough.

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## BallinaNSW

In yet another request for advice, as I alluded to earlier in the thread, some of my joins aren't great. I'll get some pics at home tonight but I'd say 60% are great, maybe 30% are OK/passable, but there is a 10% which are a bit dodgy. Is there any option to use a filler before applying oil? A quick google brought me to this but I don't know if it's a pointless exercise?  https://www.bunnings.com.au/intergra...putty_p1525285 
Thoughts?

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## droog

It is pointless using any of the regular type fillers on a deck, the timber swells and contracts with the weather. The only filler that may have some hope is epoxy resin.

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## Bloss

> It is pointless using any of the regular type fillers on a deck, the timber swells and contracts with the weather. The only filler that may have some hope is epoxy resin.

   :What he said:  leave them - you are the only one that will notice. Just get plenty of oil/finish into the joins each time you coat.

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## BallinaNSW

Sorry, thought I had replied to this! Yep gonna leave them. They're not that bad and to be honest there is plenty of minor imperfections if I go trying to fix them all I'm gonna drive myself nuts  :brava:  
Should be finished laying the boards this weekend, I'll update with some pics then. 
Still nervous about cutting the ends of the overhang. I think I'm going to chalk a line and cut each one individually with a rafters square clamped as a guide. Time consuming I know, but an extra couple of hours isn't going to make or break it at this point.

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## METRIX

Cutting the boards individually will look worse than cutting them in larger runs, but do whatever you think works for you .

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## BallinaNSW

> Cutting the boards individually will look worse than cutting them in larger runs, but do whatever you think works for you .

  Not questioning obviously, but why would it look worse? Harder to get a consistent straight line one at a time?

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## phild01

> Cutting the boards individually will look worse than cutting them in larger runs, but do whatever you think works for you ��.

  Agree. 
If unsure practice doing an outer run first.

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## r3nov8or

> Agree. 
> If unsure practice doing an outer run first.

  That's a great idea

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## droog

> _Cutting the boards individually will look worse than cutting them in larger runs, but do whatever you think works for you ��._

   :What he said: 
Depending on the amount of overhang you may be able to use the last row of screws to attach a guide. Just use a straight length of timber that will not flex as you push against it, back out some of the screws in the last row and refit them but through the guide board. Then cut with a circular saw guided against the board above.

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## BallinaNSW

Hi team. Didn't get finished on the weekend as hoped. We had a planned power outage all day yesterday grr. Only 3 runs left to go though so I'm not too disheartened. Got lots of tidying up done around the yard. 
So for some updates: 
Here is the current "state of play":  
An example of my screw lines, not perfectly straight but over the weeks I've learned to accept them.    
An example of some of my joins. First one is probably what the majority are like. Next two are two of the worse ones. Nothing I can do now to fix them up? I didn't under (back?) cut the joins and it's obvious some of my cuts weren't 100% square.   
My main problem now is that I have realised my screw line on the other edge is not going to run parallel with the edge of the deck. I'm not sure how I've done it but the line creeps in as it goes towards the back fence. Having measured it the screws will start off approx 30mm from the edge of the deck and creep to closer to 60mm by the time it's close to the back fence. Hope I'm explaining that properly - black line below is a representation of where I'll be cutting flush. I'm not prepared to rip up those boards, not at the moment anyway, due to expense/time. Obviously I need to cut the ends flush with the outside row of joists. Initial plan is to try and hide the worst of it with some furniture/pot plants/BBQ along that edge. Any other suggestions?

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## DavoSyd

those "bad" board end-gaps look like nothing bad at all!  :Smilie:  
where in relation to the black line is the last joist? under the screw-line or under the black line? 
when you say "cut it flush" what do you actually mean?

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## Bushy

Just measure out your max distance from your screw line (which looks like 10mm from your black line) and follow that parallel, nobody will ever see it as there is a fence there! 
Surely you would have some sort of garden there? 
Or overhang where your black line is closest to the camera, and then take that parallel to the screw line.

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## Bushy

Looking at it again, I think you should go parallel to your screw line from your shortest board (16?).

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## droog

Yep parallel to the screw line, you won’t see the edge face but you will see the screw line for reference. 
Decking will expand and contact with the seasons, there will always be some gaps, your cuts are square so you have an even gap across the board. 
Well done, you should be proud of your work.

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## BallinaNSW

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I'm actually pretty chuffed to get good feedback from people on an anonymous forum  :Biggrin:  
I don't think I'm explaining the outside screw line issue very well. The joist runs approx under the black line in the above pic. I don't see how I can cut the boards parallel to the screw line because as I get towards the back fence i would be cutting into the joist below. ie the screw line is too far over. I appreciate I'm not explaining the issue very well.

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## phild01

I think you are saying your joist is misaligned and the boards at the back end on the joist. You may need to slightly curve your line of cut.

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## Marc

For goodness sake, is this thread still going?
Like my pommy carpenter used to say ... it's not furniture!!!  :Cool:

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## BallinaNSW

> I think you are saying your joist is misaligned and the boards at the back end on the joist. You may need to slightly curve your line of cut.

  Yes exactly the joists are misalinged the further back towards the fence I go

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## BallinaNSW

> For goodness sake, is this thread still going?
> Like my pommy carpenter used to say ... it's not furniture!!!

  Mate I haven't even started oiling the thing yet. This odyessy is just beginning  :2thumbsup:

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## Marc

Odyssey? ... that does not even begin covering this, not even if you add the Iliad ... more like War and Peace ...   :Smilie:

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## Bushy

> I don't think I'm explaining the outside screw line issue very well. The joist runs approx under the black line in the above pic. I don't see how I can cut the boards parallel to the screw line because as I get towards the back fence i would be cutting into the joist below. ie the screw line is too far over. I appreciate I'm not explaining the issue very well.

  The screws must be in the joist (at back fence, presuming it is the fence further away from camera) so it is only a matter of being 40mm, or so, maximum out. So come back to the end closest to the camera, *measure out (cantilever*) as far as you can governed by your shortest board overhang, ( i guessed earlier it was board 16 from this end in the picture) _and run parallel to the screws  with your line_ ,(ie measure out the same distance from the screw s 'at the back fence' area). In this case it will be far less offensive for your cut off deck boards not being exactly 90 degrees, I doubt anyone will notice, except you.  
If you find board 16, or for that matter 15, 7 and 8 are to short, replace just those boards with more overhang. Indeed it looks as though board 8 is only spanning 450 or two joists, this is a big no no.  :No:

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## r3nov8or

> Odyssey? ... that does not even begin covering this, not even if you add the Iliad ... more like War and Peace ...

   Hmmm. I think the largest tome is called "Emissions Trading Thread". At least this one is getting somewhere  :Biggrin:

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## droog

> i would be cutting into the joist below. ie the screw line is too far over.

  So if the screws do not follow the joist what are they screwed into ?

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## BallinaNSW

> So if the screws do not follow the joist what are they screwed into ?

  They do follow the joist, but I must have f**ked up my line somewhere as they edge over ever so slightly and by the time I'm at the back fence I had to screw into the joist at an angle for the screw to bite.  
I took my initial measurements off the fence but I now realise the fence isn't square/parallel to the house, also my joists are slightly misaligned, also I think my initial screw line was slightly off square - so a prefect storm really that has just compounded the further I've got towards the back fence.  :Doh:  :Biggrin:  
I'm going to take the advice of the thread and try to cut parallel to the screw line. Will mean the deck is out of square to the fence but I think that will look better than the screw line creeping in. Main reason I'm over-thinking it is that it is the side of he deck that will be seen by anyone walking into the backyard so probably the most noticeable area. 
In other news I cut the overhang off the other side of the deck today. Came up very well, not the neatest in places but nothing a little sanding won't hide. I'll get some pics of it tomorrow.

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## BallinaNSW

> The screws must be in the joist (at back fence, presuming it is the fence further away from camera) so it is only a matter of being 40mm, or so, maximum out. So come back to the end closest to the camera, *measure out (cantilever*) as far as you can governed by your shortest board overhang, ( i guessed earlier it was board 16 from this end in the picture) _and run parallel to the screws  with your line_ ,(ie measure out the same distance from the screw s 'at the back fence' area). In this case it will be far less offensive for your cut off deck boards not being exactly 90 degrees, I doubt anyone will notice, except you.  
> If you find board 16, or for that matter 15, 7 and 8 are to short, replace just those boards with more overhang. Indeed it looks as though board 8 is only spanning 450 or two joists, this is a big no no.

  Thanks mate. This is the advice I'm going to follow. 
Yep I have a board only spanning two joists in a few places, didn't realise it was frowned upon!

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## phild01

Good grief, for all the deliberation here I thought you had a banana joist, worrying about the 90 degrees being slightly out is of little concern to anyone but you.

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## Marc

Banana joists. line screws, fence out of joint, pre and post posterousiness ... and the worse is still to come ... you did not grease the screws before installing.  
Baaaad

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## BallinaNSW

I get the feeling I'm pushing the limits of patience in here  :Biggrin:  
Hats off to you guys who do this type of thing for a living. I now appreciate my cushy office job so much more  :2thumbsup:

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## r3nov8or

Don't worry about Marc. If you had used the Camo system, he'd be all over it  :Biggrin:

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## BallinaNSW

Couple more updates for anyone who hasn't put this thread on their ignore list! 
Finished up laying the boards yesterday evening. Plenty of imperfections throughout it but all up I'm really pleased with how it's turned out, especially given my very limited DIY skills. I've learned so much along the way. At times it's been incredibly frustrating but also very rewarding.      
Weather dependent I plan to give it a really good clean tomorrow and oil in on Sunday. Forecast doesn't look _too_ bad

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## BallinaNSW

Also what can I do with that fence? 
Just to make it look a bit more presentable? Can I stain it with something like this? Would I need to prep it first?  https://www.bunnings.com.au/timber-p...stain_p0011532

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## Optimus

I reckon there will too much of the same colour if you stained it.. 
Well done!

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## DavoSyd

awesome! looks incredible  :Biggrin:  
did you seal the cut ends? 
also - plants will make the fence disappear!!

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## BallinaNSW

> awesome! looks incredible  
> did you seal the cut ends? 
> also - plants will make the fence disappear!!

  Thank you! 
The cut ends of the deck boards? No
The cut ends of the pine substructure - yes. I didn't think I need to treat the ends of the hardwood? Not a huge job to remove the face boards and seal if necessary? 
Yeah we're gonna look at plants this weekend, just never really noticed how terrible the fence looks until now  :Shock:

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## phild01

A few of these screens with plants as well. https://www.google.com.au/shopping/p...HfDrBqQQrhIIQg

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## BallinaNSW

> A few of these screens with plants as well. https://www.google.com.au/shopping/p...HfDrBqQQrhIIQg

  Does that just attach directly to the fence? Or is it supported by posts?

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## phild01

> Does that just attach directly to the fence? Or is it supported by posts?

  Either if your fence is sturdy, though round logs or square posts either side might frame them well. I wouldn't overdo it, maybe 3-5.
Even a flat type water feature.

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## r3nov8or

You may now find the fence is a little low standing on the deck. Taller plants will help

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## DavoSyd

> Thank you! 
> The cut ends of the deck boards? No

  https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/s...d-ends-119339/ https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/t...-merbau-92017/

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## BallinaNSW

> https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/s...d-ends-119339/ https://www.renovateforum.com/f196/t...-merbau-92017/

  Mmmm thank you. 
I'm not going to lift the boards to coat the cut ends now, but as I said earlier it's no great hassle to screw off the face boards and treat those cut ends. Pity I didn't realise this before would have been easy to coat each end as I cut. Ah well.

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## BallinaNSW

> You may now find the fence is a little low standing on the deck. Taller plants will help

  Yep have already noticed this. Neighbour to the back is fine as he has a couple of large trees just the other side of his fence. Can see right into the neighbour along the side's kitchen when standing on the deck now.

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## DavoSyd

> Mmmm thank you. 
> I'm not going to lift the boards to coat the cut ends now, but as I said earlier it's no great hassle to screw off the face boards and treat those cut ends. Pity I didn't realise this before would have been easy to coat each end as I cut. Ah well.

  yeah, it's not huge, i was just asking about the exposed ends you just cut on the edges - where the water will drain off...

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## METRIX

> Also what can I do with that fence? 
> Just to make it look a bit more presentable? Can I stain it with something like this? Would I need to prep it first?  https://www.bunnings.com.au/timber-p...stain_p0011532

  Spray the fence in a dark colour, then plant in front of it, the dark colour makes the plants pop out.
Or go for screening type plants to completely hide the fence, either option will work.  
Deck looks good, well done, the little one looks to be having fun on it, that makes all the hard work worth it.

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## Bushy

> The cut ends of the deck boards? No
> I didn't think I need to treat the ends of the hardwood?

  My goodness, all the questions and all the reading you said you did and you've missed, probably the most important part of preserving wood out side in the elements; using a reputable wood preservative all round on the boards, paying particular attention to the end grain! 
I feel I'm somewhat repeating myself...  
Oh yeah here it is..... *in your thread* !!?? 
post 65  _"One  coat  of  a  water  repellent  preservative  or  an  oil  based  primer  plus  one  coat  of  the  selected  finish  shall  be  applied  to  the  top  surface  of  joists  and  to  all  surfaces  of  decking  (including  cut  ends)  prior  to  fixing. https://www.qbcc.qld.gov.au/sites/de...ecks_final.pdf  Cutek Wood Preservative    
is the best for this especially in your situation, followed by Cutek Extreme top coat after the boards are laid." _ And again Post 68;__  _ "What happens here is, after "moulding" (ie cutting around posts), resaw  ends, to suit length etc. are done with a small pot of Cutek Wood  Preservative at the miter saw...." _ And, yes yet again, post 71_;_  _ "Coating the ends of boards when cut to size is the most important  treatment as end are most at risk, the wood cells here will conduct  moisture (and oil incidentally) as they used to." _ There may be more but i can't be bothered looking_._ je ne sais quoi._ _

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## Marc

Coating each board with wood preservative and oil prior to installing? ... how about dipping each screw in wood preservative prior to installing. Mate, that is out there ...  :Yikes2:  
By the way ... je ne sais quoi, does not mean "I don't know" as used in english to mean unbelievable whilst shaking your head. Rather it means a subtle intangible something that can not be defined, and generally a positive thing.
A sunset whilst at anchor has a ... je ne sais quoi  :Smilie:

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## Bushy

> Coating each board with wood preservative and oil prior to installing? ... how about dipping each screw in wood preservative prior to installing. Mate, that is out there ...  
> By the way ... je ne sais quoi, does not mean "I don't know" as used in english to mean unbelievable whilst shaking your head. Rather it means a subtle intangible something that can not be defined, and generally a positive thing.
> A sunset whilst at anchor has a ... je ne sais quoi

  Should have stuck to the language I know, as I do mean "unbelievable whilst shaking your head"  :No:  and or :Doh:

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## r3nov8or

What's French for "It'll be fine"?

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## BallinaNSW

After midnight on a Sunday Bushy? Think you may have had a few  :Wink:

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## Marc

> What's French for "It'll be fine"?

  Ce qui sera sera ...  :Rofl5:

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## BallinaNSW

Guess who's back  :Cool:  
I have one board which is sitting higher than the rest, approx 5mm in its highest point. This board sits right over a bearer which I'm assuming is slightly out of kilter with the level of the rest of the bearers hence the board sitting up. I wouldn't normally care but it's position means that when the afternoon sun hits it, it is very noticeable when looking across the deck (at least it is to me anyway). The run is a little over 8m long and the 'high spot" on the board runs for approx 3.5m. 
Is there anything I can do, that doesn't involve resetting that bearer, to make it less noticeable? I was thinking of marking where the high sport begins and ends, lifting the board, and routering or planing down the underside so that it brings the level down slightly. Is that likely to work? 
Couple of pics to show what I'm working with:       
Thanks guys  :Smilie:

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## r3nov8or

Lift the board and possibly each one adjacent. Inspect the bearer to confirm where it's causing the rise, and gradually plane it down to the required level.  
If you chose to protect the subfloor, do so again in the planed area of the bearer and re-fix the board/s. 
Another thought, sometimes boards and the bearer swell slightly when directly on a bearer and they are unable to dry out

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## BallinaNSW

> Lift the board and possibly each one adjacent. Inspect the bearer to confirm where it's causing the rise, and gradually plane it down to the required level.  
> If you chose to protect the subfloor, do so again in the planed area of the bearer and re-fix the board/s. 
> Another thought, sometimes boards and the bearer swell slightly when directly on a bearer and they are unable to dry out

  Yep the subfloor has joist protector which is why I was thinking of planing down the board instead of the bearer. But what you say probably makes more sense. 
There could be something in the swelling theory. I noticed it pretty much straight away but unless I'm going crazy it seems to have gotten much worse over the last month or so. Only thing that makes me counter that is that we have had so little rain so it has never got a chance to get a really good soaking.  
Thanks for the input

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## r3nov8or

It could be ground water (deep down) affecting a stump/support or two... Personally I'd probably give it a full year of seasonal change to see how it goes (and not just because I'm getting a little lazy...  :Smilie:  ).  
E.g. I thought my pool deck was sinking, as it dropped several mm below the pool coping tile, below installed level. But six months later and it has raised to be a couple of mm _above_ the pool coping tile. Mother Nature, hey... I'm glad I didn't invest any effort in 'rectifying' the drop 
Edit: Nice story, but yours is just one board.  :Biggrin:  Still worth leaving it to see...

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## Bushy

> Guess who's back  
> I have one board which is sitting higher than the rest, approx 5mm in its highest point.

  Do you remember when many folk here advised you against building a deck so close to the ground?
Especially without excavating, drainage, membrane, gravel. 
Get used to it as it will only get worse, wait 'til the rain sets in. 
No I'm not drunk, just speaking the painful facts... again.

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## BallinaNSW

Beacon of sunshine as always

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## Marc

> Do you remember when many folk here advised you against building a deck so close to the ground? Especially without excavating, drainage, membrane, gravel.

   
Ha ha, I think majority gave up long ago.  The trend of "low" deck is only getting worse. The next step can only be "wood cladded soil". 
Speaking of which ... my grandson is working for a clown who calls himself a builder. His latest creation is a deck around a pool for a poor sod who does not know what hit him. My grandson told me that he was asked to build a "floating deck" around the pool, that consists of a 90x45 stud and noggings frame laying down directly on the soil around the pool and decking boards nailed directly on this. 
Now beat that "low" deck if you can.  :Smilie:

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## JB1

> My grandson told me that he was asked to build a "floating deck" around the pool, that consists of a 90x45 stud and noggings frame laying down directly on the soil around the pool and decking boards nailed directly on this. 
> Now beat that "low" deck if you can.

  I'm certain I posted a photo of this a couple of years ago. 
Was in Bali. 
Decking board laid directly on the soil.  
 Fusing

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## Marc

Ground zero decking. 
That can only be beaten by compacting organic sawdust on the ground with a solar powered electric compactor roller.  :Smilie:

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## Jexy9

> Don't worry about Marc. If you had used the Camo system, he'd be all over it

  So is the Camo system viable?

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