# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  Need tip for MIG welding

## phild01

Is it okay for the tip shroud to touch the workpiece?

----------


## commodorenut

As long as the shroud is insulated from the brass and/or copper guide & tip inside the shroud, then yes.
Most have a bakelite or fibre arrangement to attach the shroud, so it should be insulated. 
If, for some reason, it's not insulated properly, then the shroud will be live and it will arc, not the wire.

----------


## phild01

Yeah, thought that might be the   case, so can it be used to guide the tip distance for a run, or is that just too close to the work?   
I suppose splatter might jamb up the tip.  Is that the usual reason for replacing a tip?

----------


## commodorenut

If I need to, I'll rest it on the work while I drop the helmet (I always find my hand moves it a little during the "nod" movement).
I've never clogged one up, but I tend to keep it off the work, and tap out any loose spatter balls that may collect up in there. 
In the old factory days they were forever changing the shrouds as the newbies would get the wire stuck to the work, and pull it sideways, then lay it down on the job - arcing a "bite" into the shroud each time.  But you won't be doing that to your own gear (nor would I suspect any member of this site would).

----------


## phild01

I did have to replace my shroud in the early days.  I like the tip about resting it before starting, thanks for all that :Smilie:

----------


## Marc

Using the nozzle to keep an even distance from the workpiece by running on the workpiece is not a good idea. Nozzle should be between 6 to 12mm away from the piece. Clean the nozzle regularly. The tip will eventually need replacing because of burnback due to low wire feed or too close to the work or both. Get a self darkening helmet if you don't have one already and watch the distance and the angle of the torch, 15 degree for a flat weld and 45 for a 90 weld. You can add magnifying lenses to your helmet. They do help a lot.

----------


## Marc

Here are some tips for mig welding  :Smilie:

----------


## commodorenut

I have the self-darkening helmet, as well as a plain one.  I find any more than a dozen or so zaps and my eyes start to get that sand feeling in them, so I generally use the standard helmet for anything bar a few quick tacks.  A mate who's a panel beater specialising in rust repairs & restorations told me he went away from them for the same reason, as there's always a split second before the screen reacts, and the light is faster than that reaction.

----------


## PlatypusGardens

Spray the inside of the shroud with some cooking oil to make it easier to clean.
Smells nice too

----------


## PlatypusGardens

> I suppose splatter might jamb up the tip.  Is that the usual reason for replacing a tip?

  If you settings are wrong the wire can fuse to the tip, or spatter can stick to it.
When that happens it arcs back to the tip and things don't work properly.
I have a handful of tips I need to put in the lathe and clean up...one day....maybe
I tend to just grab a 10-pack of tips whenever I'm at the shop  :Rolleyes:  
Also, after a lot of use the hole in the tip gets enlarged and the wire can burn inside the tip...apparently.  
Check if your welder has a "burnback" adjustment.
If set too high the wire burns too close to the tip, wearing it out quicker. 
I have adjustable shroud on mine and prefer the longer tips.   :Smilie:

----------


## phild01

I use a 'self darkening' but the headstrap broke.  Don't recall having a flash problem with it and about to receive a new one in the post.
I also have a can of 'blue gunk' that I periodically dip the tip into. 
My welding is crook mainly because I can't see a thing (gasless wire) which is why I thought the shroud would help me keep things on target by 'feel'.  Also  have the fan ready for next time.
The helmet I have doesn't have a darkening level adjustment but the new one will.  I always found things too dark and needed bright sunlight to have any chance of seeing anything.

----------


## ringtail

Spend good dollars on a good helmet. Not a rubbish $100 job. You get what you pay for. And Phil, the fan makes a huge difference for fluxcore but don't put it too close to the job or it will cool the weld too quickly. Also, if you're using fluxcore you can get a plastic or bakelite shroud to replace the the standard gas shroud. All you need is to cover and protect the gas diffuser and any threaded section on the end of the gun.  Makes a big difference as the contact tip is fully visable.

----------


## phild01

> Spend good dollars on a good helmet. Not a rubbish $100 job. You get what you pay for. And Phil, the fan makes a huge difference for fluxcore but don't put it too close to the job or it will cool the weld too quickly. Also, if you're using fluxcore you can get a plastic or bakelite shroud to replace the the standard gas shroud. All you need is to cover and protect the gas diffuser and any threaded section on the end of the gun.  Makes a big difference as the contact tip is fully visable.

   Have to make do with the cheaper helmet now but the metal shroud might have to go by what you are saying. Thanks.

----------


## Marc

Cheaper helmets darken at a slower speed (relatively speaking) of 1 second / 3600 or so. I have one that shuts the light out at 1/20,000 of a second. Plus you can change the shade and the mode if grinding oxy cutting or oxy welding. 
Yet the main thing is the speed. 
As far as panel beaters and exhaust repair guys, they are the worst offenders welding without a helmet shutting their eyes or looking away. 
Never do that.

----------


## ringtail

> Have to make do with the cheaper helmet now but the metal shroud might have to go by what you are saying. Thanks.

  Eyes are not cheap, protect at all costs. 
I've seen guys remove the shroud and just wrap a heap of thread tape around the gas diffuser to protect that area. Nothing fancy and certainly not going to last more than 15 minutes but.....ok for a trial run to see the difference.

----------


## ringtail

My gun set up on the machine I run fluxcore.

----------


## phild01

Ok, think I get it, the shroud is to protect the gas flow and has no real purpose when using fluxed wire!
The cheap helmets all seem to say they react within 1/25,000 of a second which probably means 1/10,000 of a second.

----------


## commodorenut

None are faster than the speed of light - which is what they really need to be.

----------


## ringtail

Exactly Phil. The black shroud is a sort of bakelite material and only protects the gas difuser threaded section. I wrapped some thread tape around the area too. Makes a big difference not having the shroud in the way. Not only can you see heaps better but you can control the contact tip to work distance much better.

----------

