# Forum Home Renovation Electrical  power point safety what is the recommended number of power points in a average house

## anonymous 21

Hi all, 
what is the recommended number of power points in a average house
do you believe the average house has enough power points installed and what would be the recommended amount of power points to be installed in every room 
i am just asking this because of safety concerns and curious about this from a safety view point

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## nev25

> Hi all, 
> what is the recommended number of power points in a average house
> do you believe the average has enough power points installed and what would be the recommended amount of power points to be installed in every room 
> i am just asking this because of safety concerns and curious about this from a safety view point

  How long is a piece of string 
Depends on the protection device the size of the cable and how it is run 
You Protection device should take care of any overloads

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## Honorary Bloke

Interesting question.  No, you can never have too many GPOs in my opinion. Always need just one more.  :Biggrin:  
As a contrast to what has been said by others about OZ, here in the US the number of outlets is dictated by the size of the room, specifically lengths of unbroken wall. There cannot be more that 1.8M between GPO outlets on an unbroken wall as measured along the floor. So any average room will have at least 3 or more based on room size.  These will generally be double outlets. This Code is based more on the tripping hazard of cords than anything else.   
For example, my living room has 7 double GPOs, my lounge has 5, and so on. Walls under 2 feet in length do not have to have a GPO installed.    
In any case, as said, it is the circuit breaker that keeps you safe.  :Smilie:

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## dambat

> Hi all, 
> what is the recommended number of power points in a average house
> do you believe the average house has enough power points installed and what would be the recommended amount of power points to be installed in every room 
> i am just asking this because of safety concerns and curious about this from a safety view point

  I haven't got the standards in front of me, but I think it is 10 double socket outlets per 2.5mm2 circuit.  As others have stated it is more  a nuisiance than safety issue.

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## chrisp

> As a contrast to what has been said by others about OZ, here in the US the number of outlets is dictated by the size of the room, specifically lengths of unbroken wall. There cannot be more that 1.8M between GPO outlets on an unbroken wall as measured along the floor. So any average room will have at least 3 or more based on room size.  These will generally be double outlets. This Code is based more on the tripping hazard of cords than anything else.

  Bob, 
You are not suggesting that the US has better electrical standards than OZ are you? 
You've been reading this forum for a very long time and you must surely know by now that OZ has by far the best electrical standards anywhere in the world!   :Smilie:

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## nev25

> Bob, 
> You are not suggesting that the US has better electrical standards than OZ are you? 
> You've been reading this forum for a very long time and you must surely know by now that OZ has by far the best electrical standards anywhere in the world!

  
They have better road laws too 
They drive on the correct side of the road

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## tricky4000

Going back to what Headpin said, I think more GPOs are needed nowadays than Headpin suggested.  As Headpin said, we have so many electronics nowadays, you'll never have enough.  In my renovation, the sparky installed 4 x double GPOs in each bedroom.  One in every corner.  TV on one side, spare on the other side, could be used for a floor lamp, charging your mobile, whatever.  Two on the bed side - bed side table lamps, lecky blankies for those who still use them.  The kitchen is something else.  2 double GPOs along the bench and 2 x double GPOs under the sink - diskwasher, disposal and a couple more - a blender, electric knife, when you may use, etc.  You may want to install some do-it-yourself cabinet lighting...you always need GPOs in the cupboards for that cause no one wants power leads and powerboards everywhere.  The lounge room and entertainment system area is something else!!  I think its really important to think about how many GPOs you have and where, and over doing it a little sometimes means you have a tidy cable free house.  I think powerleads and powerboards are definitely dangerous.  I believe the sale and use of these needs to be overhauled by the government / appropriate departments.  They are extremely dangerous if use incorrectly.  And I'm sure most of your agree, many of them are use incorrectly.

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## Gooner

> They have better road laws too 
> They drive on the correct side of the road

  .. and can turn right (i.e. our left) at any time as long as they give way. Here, we are stuck at a red light, waiting to turn left when it is really safe to go as long as you give way. 
I'd like to see that law here.

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## Pulse

three doubles per bedroom should be enough I think. Its all personal preference though, don't forget one for the hall to help with vacuuming. 
Cheers
Pulse

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## Honorary Bloke

> Bob, 
> You are not suggesting that the US has better electrical standards than OZ are you?

  Of course not!  :Rolleyes:   Horses for courses.  :Wink:  
But the initial expense of putting them in during construction or remodelling is trivial compared to adding one later on. When I built a home in Arizona some years back, I had about 12 or so put in my home office. Still ended up with a couple of power boards, but nothing like it would have been.  
I might add that for kitchen benchtops, the max distance is 1.3 metres (4 feet) and all outlets must be on a Ground Fault Interrupt circuit  (I forget the Ozzie term for these, sorry).

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## nev25

> Ground Fault Interrupt circuit (I forget the Ozzie term for these, sorry).

  R.C.D 
Residual Current Device 
Commonly (And wrongly)called Safety Switches 
OR
In industrial environments they are sometimes called 
Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers

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## Master Splinter

At the very least, I'd do some intelligent planning based on putting points in walls/corners that will be hard to drop wires down later. 
Maybe even pre drilling holes in noggins in convenient locations so that it's not an issue to deal with in a cramped and hot roof space at some indeterminate time in the future.   
You could even go crazy and have some pull-through cord in place! 
But I'd be more inclined to go for a silly number of circuits - kitchen by itself, maybe laundry/bathroom on another, bedrooms on one, lounge on another.  There's nothing more annoying than the washing machine and kettle conspiring to pop the circuit that includes the TV...at the most inconvenient time.

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## Smurf

There's no "right" answer in my opinion but a few points to note: 
Kitchen - you want at least a double GPO easily accessible to all bench work areas. Also you want a double for the fridge (fridge plus a radio / TV / microwave on top), plus outlets for the dishwasher and anything else (eg gas oven, waste disposal etc). 
Laundry - at least 3 outlets in total. Washer, dryer and iron. 
Lounge - it's more a question of where than how many. It's not a real problem to use a power board with the TV etc, but in most houses there's more than one possible location for such equipment and you might want to move it someday. So certainly you want a GPO in every corner and, depending on room size, along every wall. 
Hall - one for the vacuum and possibly another for a heater depending on climate. 
Main bedroom - on each side of the bed plus on the opposite wall for a TV etc. Unless the design of the room is such as to allow only one reasonable location for the bed (placement of windows, door etc) then you might need to install quite a number of GPO's to always have one each side of the bed in any possible location. 
Other bedrooms - you'll never have enough to allow for the teenager with a room full of electronics. 
Bathroom - regulations will restrict where GPO's can be placed and this may not allow them where you really want them. Use double or quad not singles so at least you end up with a few in total.  
Garage / workshop - it's hard to have too many here. The more the better. 
Outside - depends on the property size and type but it's handy to at least be able to get power from an outdoor GPO or from inside the shed, garage etc on each side of the house. You'll use it for something someday. 
As for circuits, the big loads are generally kitchen, laundry, workshop and anywhere a heater or air-conditioner might be plugged in. Within reason, more circuits is a good thing and you certainly don't want the whole kitchen and laundry on the same circuit. And keep the workshop / garage totally separate from the rest with its own circuits - you'll be glad you did if you ever use a welder in there.

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## elkangorito

> Interesting question.  No, you can never have too many GPOs in my opinion. Always need just one more.  
> As a contrast to what has been said by others about OZ, here in the US the number of outlets is dictated by the size of the room, specifically lengths of unbroken wall. There cannot be more that 1.8M between GPO outlets on an unbroken wall as measured along the floor. So any average room will have at least 3 or more based on room size.  These will generally be double outlets. *This Code is based more on the tripping hazard of cords than anything else.  *  
> For example, my living room has 7 double GPOs, my lounge has 5, and so on. Walls under 2 feet in length do not have to have a GPO installed.    
> In any case, as said, it is the circuit breaker that keeps you safe.

  This is a great idea & very sensible.
If more GPO's decrease the tripping hazard, as well as the hazard of using those dangerous "powerboards", install them. 
Mind you, my only real gripes about the yank system is that they have dual voltages, which can cause quite a problem with DIYers...particularly if 240v split phase is used & they use many different types of transformer configurations (see below).
BTW, for all concerned, the USA has 120v...not 110v. They use transformer configurations that are rarely heard of in Australia; 
CORNER-GROUNDED DELTA, OPEN DELTA, CENTER-TAP GROUNDED DELTA & CENTER-TAP GROUNDED OPEN DELTA.

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## firstrenovation

We are planning a renovation of an early 1970s brick apartment and were just talking about electrics. The usual story applies with one light in every room and one power point in each bedroom and two (very generous!) power points in kitchen and living room. 
Can anyone give me an idea of how much an electrician would charge to install additional power points (cost/socket?). Also, we are thinking of adding downlights to help modernise the place (long fluorescentlight in kitchen has to go). Taking living room as example - there is one light in middle of ceiling. Can, say 4 downlights be installed/run off the original point? And how much (roughly) would a sparkie charge per downlight. Would definately be doing kitchen and bathroom as well - bedrooms are still under debate! We would probably buy lights so installation only I guess.... 
Any advice would be great! 
Thanks

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## rrobor

No one can really answer that. If the plaster is off the walls and the electrician is doing a clean new rewire, an odd socket or two is not going to be a costly issue. If the guy has to try threading behind a wall thats tough and takes time. So you have to answer your own question, how do you want this done.

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## Master Splinter

As a rough figure, about $85 per downlight/power point including fittings.  Maybe more depending on how much fiddling is required to run cables.  If there's no roof space to work in...lean towards the $ more side of things. 
You shouldn't need a new circuit when going from one standard fitting to a half dozen halogens - lights don't use that much power in the first place. 
But while halogens look nice, they are not very good at saving money.  Yes, they cost less (individually) to run, but you need more of them - I imagine you are replacing one 100 watt incandescent bulb with four 50 watt halogen bulbs giving you a net result of double the running cost. 
The bulbs also don't last as long as advertised - I'd work on half to one-third the time claimed on packaging.  And every so often you'll need to replace a transformer, which is around $15 not counting the cost of a sparkie.

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## rrobor

I agree with master Splinter as far as 12V halogens go. Get the 240V ones, then you have no issues changing them, they are just a bayonet fit and seem to last better.

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## looseless

Think of a number using some of the formulas suggested in this thread.   
Have a beer.  :Blush7:  
Have another beer. 
Double the number you first thought of.  :Wink 1:  
Have a beer 
Have another beeer. 
Multiply the second number by 1.5   :brava:  
Have a couple more beers and order a pizza. 
Keep adding power points until you have no wall space left 300mm above the floor. 
Have a six pack.  Eat the pizza. 
Go to the toilet.   
Add 10 more power points in each room. 
Have more beer.   :Ohyaaa:   Now you've got the correct amount :brava: 
Hope that helps.  I'm sh**faced.  (too much beer)

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## elkangorito

It's good to see someone having fun  :Smilie:

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