# Forum More Stuff Go to Whoa!  Californian Bungalow renovation - should we dare?

## newlywed1311

We are keen to purchase an original Californian Bungalow near the CBD in a regional Victorian city.
We are hoping the owner will come down to the price we are prepared to pay, but that remains to be seen.
The Bungalow is on a 930sqm block with rear lane access.
It may have had minor renovations over time, but nothing significant.  A lean to has been added on the back.
It has 2 bedrooms, lounge, dining, original kitchen, bathroom with toilet coming off it.
The lean to adds two small bedrooms and a sun room.
House will need re-stumping, probably some structural work, probably replumbing / electrical work, etc.
We'd love to build an extension onto the back, to create a four bedroom, two bathroom home with a large kitchen/living area out the back.
However, we have minimal renovating experience. Limited cash.
Big dreams!!
How do we make the decision?

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## newlywed1311

Here are some more photo's of the house.

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## goldie1

Very nice The only problem I can see is the "limited cash " part  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

You've just got to have the drive to do it. It's worth trying to determine if there are any major structural,  plumbing, electrical issues that may throw up early costly issues that have to be resolved ... but otherwise I've certainly been down this path a few times.  
I have a bad habit of diving in and learning as I go. This site is full of help if you're willing to ask.  
Are you willing to live in it and improve it room by room over a period? My preference is get your bedroom and a bathroom / ensure sorted first up... it just makes the process so much nicer if you have those two rooms at the end of a tough day.  
Enough waffle...

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## phild01

> ... but otherwise I've certainly been siren this path a few times.

  ????

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## OBBob

> ????

  Not talking to you anymore...   
...  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Not talking to you anymore...   
> ...

  Something has changed, new tapatalk or whatever the techno world is up to :Rolleyes:

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## OBBob

> Something has changed, new tapatalk or whatever the techno world is up to

  Ha ha... I think it's just me rushing the input.

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## phild01

> Ha ha... I think it's just me rushing the input.

   rushed inputs = slow reads x reader numbers :Wink:

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## Renopa

Phil maybe it's what in the glass beside him!!  Hahaha!!

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## phild01

> Phil maybe it's what in the glass beside him!!  Hahaha!!

   :Drinks Wine:

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## Renopa

Good one!!

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## OBBob

Yeah,  just got up guys... ripper headache... what's that dribble I wrote above? :eek:  
Joking... I'm all for fixing old houses but it's always MUCH more work than you think, always.  :Tongue:

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## Renopa

Newlywed getting back to serious business, I think it will come up great too, but have to agree with others there is always more involved than you expect.  Murphy makes a habit of seeing to that!  There have been a couple of CB's in this forum and they have come up nicely so it just depends on your budget as the more work you can do yourselves the further it stretches.   
Look forward to updates!

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## newlywed1311

We went and had another look through the house today. We still really like it, particularly it's potential.
We will have to get the house re-stumped first off, as it is still on its original stumps.
The house is in an area with a heritage overlay too, which will add cost.
It requires lots of work - so appreciate advice on where we should start.
In terms of finance, we should have some money to play with once we purchase - perhaps up to $100,000... but our biggest challenge will be how we manage to live and renovate the main house, whilst also planning for the extension at some point in the future. If it is a staged development, we don't want to spend too much on front house renovations that aren't going to be kept or benefit the whole house renovation. I guess we'll need to consult with a builder or designer first up.
We have three children too, aged 8-14... who aren't happy about moving into an old house, so that will definitely add another layer of complexity to the renovation process.
We do plan on renovating whilst living there... financially, that's the only way.
It's exciting but very overwhelming given we really don't have a lot of experience or skill in this area.
I do like utilising forums, so I'm sure this will be a place that I visit regularly.
Who should we bring on board to look at the house before we consider purchasing? What sorts of issues, if any, should we consider deal breakers... or are all issues insurmountable given the right amount of $$$ to rectify?
Thanks for your advice, greatly appreciated.

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## paddyjoy

Like a few others we are also living in a Californian bungalow with young kids and have been renovating for years now lol... 
From my experience it comes down to how much work you can do yourself vs getting trades in. If you have to get trades in for everything your $100k won't go very far however if you are willing to get your hands dirty then you can really make the funds stretch. 
Asbestos could be something to look out for in those back rooms.

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## ChocDog

We're also renovating a CB. I like the character of the places. My advice, have a very serious look at the lean to if you plan to keep it as part of the house. Get a builder to look if you need to. You will find that a lot of CB add ons weren't built professionally and were home built. Some are fine, others aren't. Ours appeared to have been built with a bottle of ouzo for a  spirit level and old bits of timber he found for studs. Nothing was straight, plumb, level. And it was out of square about 80mm. I had to reframe the whole thing. 
Other bit of advice would be to determine whether the layout works for you or will you need to move walls our open them up. This will change your budget significantly.

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## newlywed1311

We do plan on removing the lean to, and hopefully adding an open plan living space on the back end.  The floor plan lends very well to this idea - front of house will have four bedrooms and ensuite, (perhaps bathroom) back  of house (extension) will have open plan kitchen/living area, bathroom, and laundry. There could be a hallway straight down the middle of the house with the current floor plan (not sure what to do with the chimney in the middle of the house though - perhaps make a feature or remove if it's not load bearing). We may have more money over time, so that's what we have to plan out.... what order we do things in.
Paddyjoy, we're definitely keen to do as much work as we can ourselves.  We both work full time though, so that's a challenge. Also, our experience in renovating is practically zilch, but our enthusiasm is 100% (well, at the moment it is!!). We know that will change! Will definitely be mindful of asbestos when doing anything.
ChocDog, I assume you have some good experience in building, given you had to re frame the add on the back of your house. I think we'll be using a builder for any framing.
Is there a lot of jobs that can be done by home renovators if they're prepared to give it a go?? I know we just wont' be able to do some things as they'll require registered tradies, but we'll try things that we think we have the capacity to do.
Such a big decision.... we can just see the huge potential of the home though. Location is 300m from CBD, 500m from the river... and 100m from the Arts Centre... so worst house in the best street!!
ChocDog, we also love the character of the house.  We've looked at buying new but they just don't have anything that excites us. We keep coming back to this place and the fact we can bring this run down property back to something beautiful... whilst losing our sanity along the way, no doubt!

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## toooldforthis

it sounds like you are still unclear about the current condition?
does it need restumping because the floors (and walls?) are going in the wrong directions? Just because it is on original stumps doesn't mean it does.
you _need to assess basic start-up issues_, as you won't want to do a major reno/extension on something that might be falling down (until you fix it, that is): stumping?electrics - is the wiring original? need replacing? you will need an upgrade at the fuse box for the extension at the leastasbestos?roofing - leaks? rust?termites? past damage?plumbing? existing copper? sewerage? septic? 
might sound daunting, but people renovate and extend all the time and do so successfully, so you can too.
as paddyjoy said above, a key to the financial aspect is how much you can do yourself

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## newlywed1311

Toooldforthis, yes, we are still unclear about the current condition. We've walked through twice but are inexperienced, so not really sure how to look at things in any depth. 
Re the need for re-stumping, we just felt that before we did any major work inside the house, we need to have solid foundations.  The house feels fairly sturdy and stands well, with some minor cracking.  However, one of the chimney's is coming away from the house - not sure if the house is moving or if the chimney is!! We have redgum timber stumps here, and they are supposed to be replaced every 20 years or so. I'd have to spend $$$ on the house, then find that the foundations weren't good for the next 20 years. Obviously we'll get an opinion from a re-stumper before making that decision, but I'm fairly confident it will be recommended.
Electrics - will still need to be looked at.  Have no idea about condition at all.
Asbestos could definitely be an issue in the house, fence or outdoor laundry/toilet!
Front of roof looks like it's been re-done fairly recently. Back of house has extension / lean to that has been incorporated into the roof line. NO leaks that we know of but we haven't lived there (haven't even purchased yet!). We'll need to have a good look at the roof as our net step.
Termites - yes!  There has been termite activity in one window frame in the front room. Owner says he had it treated a few years ago, but obviously we don't know the extent of the damage if it's also hidden behind walls. Will have to have this more thoroughly checked out.
Plumbing is another unknown.  Bathroom's had a renovation at some stage, I guess, but we wouldn't have a clue of current situation. Plumbed sewerage, but know nothing of condition, etc.
It does sound daunting, extremely daunting. We are prepared to do the work but it's more about what we can do vs what we'd like to do but can't. Also, if we can source information along the way to help us do some of the work, that will be invaluable. This forum is a great place to start.

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## joynz

I suggest having a prepurchase inspection done.   
Assuming the house is "for sale" not auction, if you make an offer, make it dependent on results of inspection (termites, structure etc).

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## newlywed1311

Yes, we'll definitely be having some inspections done before purchase.  It is for sale by the owner, so no auction.  Has been on the market for the past 2-3 months. Has had REA's through but he doesn't want to sell to them or through them.
The location is what makes the house more valuable and I feel that the owner is going to hold it at its price because of land value, not because of the house condition. 
We'd need him to drop it around $40,000-$50,000 before it's even at a realistic price.... so it's still a long shot.
Even so, we continue to do our homework as he know's we're interested and has been very accommodating.

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## OBBob

Redgum stumps can definitely last more than 20 years in the appropriate conditions. But I agree you want good foundations to being _begin_ with.  
Start an excel budget, it saves a lot of stress later if you've allowed for everything you can think of (conservatively) and added contingency. 100k doesn't go far once you start talking kitchens, bathrooms, extensions, etc. But if you are willing to take time and prioritise you'll get there.

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## newlywed1311

Thanks OBBob... I must say, it seems very overwhelming financially.  The harder I look, the more $$$ it looks like it will cost. I can see us overcapitalising on it over time, but the location is what keeps us going back. We plan on it being our home for the next 20 years.... even longer, so it will be money well spent.
I'm not sure I even have the knowledge to begin an Excel spreadsheet as I just don't have enough experience to know where to start with the costs.
It will be the big costs that will potentially knock us flat - re-wiring, re-plumbing, re-work, the extension, bathrooms, etc. I can see our starting capital will probably only enable us to do some significant work on the front of the house... without even considering the extension.  That scares me because we'd really like a four bedroom, two bathroom home sooner rather than later (just due to the ages of the kids), and I'm well aware that these processes can take years.
A lot to process... but I'm working through it.

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## OBBob

Ha ha ... If you think about it too much it gets daunting even for those that have done it a few times!  
It sounds like you really need a builder or an experienced person to have a look and advise on the basic details discussed above. Then hopefully you can gauge what's required to be done before you get to the nice stuff.  
There's probably not likely to be a lot of cost advantage over buying one already done ... but you get to do it the way you want it and you can outlay the cash over a longer period rather than having to have it all up front. 
Edit: the last paragraph is probably a bit location specific.

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## ChocDog

> ChocDog, I assume you have some good experience in building, given you had to re frame the add on the back of your house.

  Naa  :Wink:  I'm just a frustrated engineer that manages a desk these days so this is my chance of getting back to be anything remotely design/engineering related. To be honest, i was pretty lucky as my [S]GF[/S] grandfather was a builder who (tried to) taught me a lot - just wish now  I paid more attention sometimes and asked more questions about why he did certain things. Also luckily that I've got a mate who is a builder so I annoy him sometimes for clarification. This site is brilliant as well. Very helpful guys (and gals) on here giving advice.

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## David.Elliott

So your Girl Friend was a builder? :Doh:

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## ChocDog

Ha! Damn, that would be handy!!! but no, GF = grandfather in my case. Hmmm, coffee hadnt soaked in when I wrote that acronym. Time to hit the edit button...

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## phild01

> Ha! Damn, that would be handy!!! but no, GF = grandfather in my case. Hmmm, coffee hadnt soaked in when I wrote that acronym. Time to hit the edit button...

  Thought girlfriend as well   :Laughing1:

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## Renopa

Now he's let the cat out of the bag???    :brava:

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## OBBob

Same here,  I was wondering why it wasn't already finished!

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## ChocDog

> Same here,  I was wondering why it wasn't already finished!

  Me too!!! I thought it would have been finished ages ago. Clearly my wife doesnt like spending all her spare time (re?) building like I do! Shame my grandfather is no longer around, as he'd be bloody handy to me. He helped build/renovate most of his kids houses and grand-kids houses. Unfortunately this place will miss his help. He was laying bricks when nearly 90. Not a bad effort. Hopefully it wont take me that long...

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## lazydays

> I'm not sure I even have the knowledge to begin an Excel spreadsheet as I just don't have enough experience to know where to start.

  I remember when I built our house we used a draftsman to design it and draw the plans up after giving him our ideas on what we wanted, he also gave us a budget figure per sq meter on what he came up with. He then gave us a costing book that including EVERY single item and labour to complete the house and we just filled it in. The costing book referred to items that we then got the prices from by borrowing his catologues/price lists of just about every product on the market. At the end of the day we were very happy with how close the costings came out and we even managed to finish under budget by utilizing "seconds" and auction houses.. I forget the name of the book but I think it was a pretty standard format amongst the drafting/architect trade.

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## paddyjoy

> He then gave us a costing book that including EVERY single item and labour to complete the house and we just filled it in. The costing book referred to items that we then got the prices from by borrowing his catologues/price lists of just about every product on the market.

  Might have been the Rawlinsons construction cost guide?  https://www.rawlhouse.com/

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## seriph1

No offence intended at all but if the purchase price is 40-50K beyond your budget, then renovating a period home may be a huge struggle for you both.  
It can be extremely hard to do a room-by-room renovation (which it sounds like you might have to do because of funds) and half done renovations can stretch the friendship with partners, in laws, kids and even visitors.  
That said, the results could be breathtaking if done right. Bungalows were for many years, the forgotten period home but they are far more practical than Victorian and even many Edwardian home styles. I can "see" a lot of potential in the home your hoping to buy, but again, period renovations come at a price. Do you have many salvage/demolition yards in your region or will you need to travel fair distances to look for suitable items? I believe you're around 6 hours from Melbourne but if you are down this way at all (I am in Kilmore) feel free to send me a private message and I'll be pleased to offer some small amount of guidance/advice (gulp!) on places you can go to for products. I also have an extensive period architecture library with maybe a hundred or so publications dedicated to Bungalows that you're welcome to look over. 
Big job - definitely not for someone who only knows how to point and talk but the rewards are huge when done right by someone willing to get down and dirty (very dirty) and become proficient in how to do the work. 
end of sermon  :Smilie:  
ps. you might want to join the american bungalow group on Facebook - they discuss and photograph the world's best Bungalow renovations   https://www.facebook.com/AmericanBungalow?fref=ts  
This is one example of the types of work they showcase

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## newlywed1311

Thanks again everyone, you've provided some very useful resources and tips.
I'll follow up on all information shared.
We could afford to buy the house at the price the owner is asking but, like any purchase, it's about paying what you think is a fair price. We don't want to let our heart get in the way of our head... plus we still want to be able to use funds to renovate the house. We don't want to over commit and we're still doing our sums to work out what our bottom line is. So hard when we know the costs are going to be ongoing for some time. That's the challenge - to work out whether we're dreaming or whether what we'd like to do is viable. Lots of due diligence... and this forum is just one way we're gathering information to assist us with our decision making.
Steve, we do have a local junk yard. I've never been there but I've heard it's a treasure trove... We also have a social enterprise where people take anything they think might be useful, for reselling by a local charity. You can sometimes find treasures there as well.  We are miles from anywhere, so it does make it harder to source items of the era for the renovation, but where there's a will, there's a way. Bendigo is four hours, so not un-doable.  Adelaide is the same distance... so there are options.
I'm not sure if we're just the point and talk type of people but I think I'm willing to find out.
We're going to have a talk with the bank because it looks like our idea of renovating is not going to cut it with them. They want infrastructure! Fixing stuff up doesn't add value, as far as they're concerned - they want to see extensions, etc.  So, we might have to flip our idea and do the extension first... then upgrade the front part of the house as we can!
Meeting with a heritage advisor on site next week to see what he thinks.
Will get a building inspector to have a good look through after we've had a chat with the owner about his bottom line.  Can't go any further unless he comes down to our price.
So, that's where we're at.
Going to go and join that FB page and will definitely be in touch, Steve, if we purchase and then need to start looking at the upgrades. Appreciate the offer.

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## OBBob

Oops ... I missed the bit about the heritage listing. That can make it a little tougher than just modernising. It sounds like you are on the right track getting input from the heritage adviser first.

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## newlywed1311

Hello again,
I'm back! We continued to procrastinate about the house, largely because we are still to sell our current home... so the timing just wasn't right. The owner eventually got tenants into the house, who we heard were keen to purchase but were sorting out their finance. We believed they had first option to purchase in six months time... so we continued looking around at all houses in the area we liked..  Unfortunately, we just can't find something that ticks all the boxes - first box being location.
Long story short is the house is still available for sale and we have let the owner know we are still keen.
We need to sell our current house though, but now we're even closer to doing that, it makes having a conversation with the owner easier.
The fact we're still keen is telling us something - either we're crazy or perhaps it is something we can manage... Lord knows which!
OBBob, the house has a heritage overlay, but this primarily means that it can't be knocked down or changed substantially without a permit. It would have a bigger impact on developers than us.
I'll keep everyone posted as we further explore our options.

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## Optimus

Good luck pal, if you are looking for a restumper, pm me

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## Moondog55

OK If you are going to do it you need some basic on-site infrastructure in place first
Did thus a while ago with a house in Northcote and I really really really wish we had
A built a really big shed
Got a container to store valuable tools and materials in
Built an even bigger shed
Bought a caravan to sleep in when the house became unlivable due to dust and asbestos issues
Made that big shed even bigger
Re-roofed at the same time we re-stumped and rewired and re-plumbed and seriously thought more about what we were doing before jumped in and started
We should have removed all the old weatherboards insulated and house wrapped and replaced all the weatherboards to save on power bills and in the end what we did to make the house better was too small for the growing family
Bigger is often a lot better for a family room and laundry area when you have smaller kids
Good Luck

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## Marc

So lets see if I understand ... you suggest to build a big shed?

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## OBBob

> So lets see if I understand ... you suggest to build a big shed?

  
If fairness, he does suggest sleeping quarters (a caravan) next to the shed.

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## Marc

Ha ha, just joking, he is very clear one must build a BIG shed

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## newlywed1311

A step closer.... signing a purchase contract in the next couple of days.
Price was better than we anticipated, however, still a premium due to location.
Building inspection complete with lots of positives, and a few things that need addressing straight away.
Stumps are good, generally, so probably won't need to re-stump straight away.
Big shed out back - will undoubtedly be needed.
We will pay a minimal rent on the property until we sell and settle on our own home.  Long purchase contract to enable us to do this.
We will look at extending our mortgage to extend the home when we first move in - otherwise, we'll work with a draughtsman or builder to design the extension with the current floor plan/house in mind.
Looks like all systems go - so very excited!

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## Moondog55

Yes I did and I do
One big shed makes a lot more sense in the long run than the 3 or 4 smaller ones we wound up with
A caravan is much cheaper than a motel or a hotel and they have some residual resale value at the end

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## notvery

oh no no no...not a caravan next to the shed no no no. make the shed big enough to house the caravan in the shed. some friends near us are building their own home and built a big shed... a really big shed..massive overkill shed. the caravan is in the shed. its parked next to the tractor that also lives in the shed(proper sized tractor not a messing around one). the temp kitchen in the shed is about commercial size for half a dozen chefs, the temp lounge is good size and the two bedrooms(walls made of stacked boxes for privacy) are bigger than any in my house... the other half of the shed is used to store the furniture and stuff that will eventually go into the house when its finished.... i guess the house will seem cramped once they get to move in!

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## Marc

Nee .. not even close. I suggest to build a shed on the fence line all around covering the land and the house. This way anything you do, you do under cover  :2thumbsup:   http://sheddiy.com/wp-content/upload...hed-home-2.jpg

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## toooldforthis

> oh no no no...not a caravan next to the shed no no no. make the shed big enough to house the caravan in the shed. some friends near us are building their own home and built a big shed... a really big shed..massive overkill shed. the caravan is in the shed. its parked next to the tractor that also lives in the shed(proper sized tractor not a messing around one). the temp kitchen in the shed is about commercial size for half a dozen chefs, the temp lounge is good size and the two bedrooms(walls made of stacked boxes for privacy) are bigger than any in my house... the other half of the shed is used to store the furniture and stuff that will eventually go into the house when its finished.... i guess the house will seem cramped once they get to move in!

  I've got a neighbour like that.
They decided they didn't need a house after all - left it unrenovated.
Council not happy but haven't/can't do anything about it apparently.

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## webtubbs

> ..massive overkill shed.

  What's a "massive overkill shed"? I don't think there is such a thing  :Wink:

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## CraigandKate

> What's a "massive overkill shed"? I don't think there is such a thing

  The problem being when the shed is bigger than the house (according to the mrs) so then you need to extend the house to compensate apparently..  :Wink:

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## notvery

> What's a "massive overkill shed"? I don't think there is such a thing

  when birds perch in the top of the shed and you have to get the rifle out to remove them... then its overkill...literally. not sure the holes in the roof are particularly good ideas but its better than bird poo im told

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## newlywed1311

Settlement due mid-March but we've had access to the property for the past 6 weeks or so.
Just doing some basic renovating to make the property more aesthetically pleasing in the kids bedrooms.
Cleaning up the mess in the yard, assessing site for a new shed and fencing, builder appointed to fix little issues prior to our move.... 
All systems go! I'll post some photo's when I can get them off my phone!

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## seriph1

What town in the property in?

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## newlywed1311

Regional city in Victoria, Steve.

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## newlywed1311

We are finally in our house. It's been a long ride from first viewing the property, to settlement... but we're there.
We moved in about 6 weeks ago and are still trying to find a place for things, as the storage is minimal.
We've started cleaning up the yard, which was full of timber and metal and concrete and rubbish. We've started cutting down tree's and clearing space in the yard.  The old Hills Hoist will be removed and a new clothes line will be run along the side fence. 
We've not got much money to do anything significant to the house at this point in time, but are hoping we can generate some equity by tidying the place up and doing some basic maintenance.
The six months from around September 2015 until May 2016 were spent updating the two back bedrooms. We rented the property from the owner in this time, but lived in our other home. One of the back bedrooms - transformation underway. Boards polished. Timber paneling bogged and painted. New ceiling. Timber windows taken back to bare timber and repainted. 
I'm having difficulty uploading so I'll come back and try again when my computer is starting to comply.

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## OBBob

You seem to be getting on with a bit! Cash flow tends to be a bit better when you do it yourself because you progress a little slower.   :Biggrin:

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## travelislife

Good stuff. Would love to see some more photos. Great that you were able to come to an arrangement with the previous owner to get in and do some work before settlement.

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## Optimus

Did u get it restumped in the end?

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## newlywed1311

Thanks for your support. We haven't had any restumping done yet. From the Builders report, I think we only needed some done up the hallway and on the front verandah. We will certainly have that done before we do any major works in the house. Cleaning up the yard has been our focus. It was an absolute mess. We've taken probably 10-15 large trailer loads of green waste out the back gate to the tip. Fortunately, my husband is a gardener so has all the right equipment and tools to get this job done.  I'm the apprentice in training. 
 Here are some photo's of the yard when we first saw the place. This was about 18 months ago and in the middle of summer. I'll add some photo's of the changes we've made shortly. http:// http://http://  
This last photo shows the renovations when I was in the thick of it. (Photo to come) I had to scrape crumbly black underlay off the floor boards so we could lay down new carpet. I also spent a lot of time prepping and painting both small bedrooms, which are built in on the back of the house. The bedrooms and the room in between all have Louvre windows.  This whole section of the house will be removed when we extend some time in the future.

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## newlywed1311

(Photo to come)
This is another photo of the small bedroom in my post above. We had the floor polished and they came up beautifully.  You can't see it in the original photo but the carpet is multi-colored stripe, thread bare and disgusting. The boards were original, and you can see how well they came up. We painted it a pale grey with an aqua feature wall, which my 15 year old daughter wanted. I repainted the window timber gloss white. She still doesn't have a door on her room as I haven't had time to strip and repaint - poor dear! There was a lot of rot in the windows but I didn't want to replace as this back end of the house is not going to be on for more than a few years (hopefully less!). I hate the louver windows because they are ugly, hot in summer and cold in winter, so I plan on hanging curtains over them.  Haven't quite got there yet because we couldn't find the right color. She has a new wardrobe that covers half of them anyway. I'll get there in time.

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## newlywed1311

So we've been here about 11 months and progress is very slow!  It still looks like a tip and we haven't moved much on having design plans created to begin the renovation process.
We LOVE the new, innercity location and are making the most of the lifestyle it brings... but there's definitely compromise living in a one bathroom house with no storage and three kids (2 teenage girls included!!). Here's some of the cleaning up we've done in the front and back yard - years of overgrowth.

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