# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  Stair Rise and Run Question?

## sstyln

Hi, 
The BCA mentions a range in distance for the rise and run when building stairs. I am about to build stairs off my deck and am not limited to space. Is there a, "comfortable" rise and run measurement. 
Thanks

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## sol381

most treads are 250mm..rise around 180mm...but you will have to work out the rise from the height of the stairs from top of deck to ground.... they need to all be equal..

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## Bros

Never heard it described like that. I have heard it to be "rise and go"

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## Marc

> Hi, 
> The BCA mentions a range in distance for the rise and run when building stairs. I am about to build stairs off my deck and am not limited to space. Is there a, "comfortable" rise and run measurement. 
> Thanks

  The ergonomic relationship between rise and going is:  2R+G= 25 inches or 63.5 cm
So if you have a rise of 16cm you need a going of 31.5 cm.
Since the drop you need to link with your stairs is fixed and not variable, the only variable is the going or tread. 
So work out the size of your rise first and apply the formula for your tread, that will tell you how long your staircase will be and if it fits where you want it. if it does not, you need a landing and a turn but keep the size of your tread going and go go go ...  :Smilie:

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## Blocklayer

To make it easier to work out the rise and run (and get a plan diagram), try this calculator *Stair Calculator - Stringers - Headroom - Plans - Metric*  
It will give you a diagram of the stairs with all dimensions, and you can select 'Calculate Run' to use the formula Marc mentioned.
Or you can set the individual runs, total run or stair angle. Just check the appropriate radio button.

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## ringtail

My 2 cents. Keep your rise to a maximum of 170 and preferably 165. A much more comfortable rise and you will avoid the issues of having a gap greater than 125 mm between the treads.

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## sol381

good point..certifiers love picking on that 125mm gap..

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## ringtail

Bloody oath they do. And yet, an open stair case with slat balustrade has a yawning chasm triangular gap between bottom rail and back of the stair tread because the measurement is taken vertically from the nosing line.

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## sol381

yeah..never understood that ruling..

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## Blocklayer

With all this talk about the 125mm max gap between treads, I thought it would be a good idea to add this calculation to the stair calculator.
If you enter a *Tread Thickness*, but 0 *Riser Thickness* (so there will be a gap) the calculator will now draw a circle (as in a ball) between 2 treads in the top diagram, and show the gap.
If it's over 125, it will also draw an alert, and let you know.  *Stair Calculator - Stringers - Headroom - Plans - Metric* 
Does it make sense the way it's set up?

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## Bloss

> With all this talk about the 125mm max gap between treads, I thought it would be a good idea to add this calculation to the stair calculator.
> If you enter a *Tread Thickness*, but 0 *Riser Thickness* (so there will be a gap) the calculator will now draw a circle (as in a ball) between 2 treads in the top diagram, and show the gap.
> If it's over 125, it will also draw an alert, and let you know.  *Stair Calculator - Stringers - Headroom - Plans - Metric* 
> Does it make sense the way it's set up?

  Mate - still love your work! That is a really useful and easy to understand update.

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## Bloss

> Never heard it described like that. I have heard it to be "rise and go"

  Maybe be a Queensland thing? Always been 'rise & run' for me, but 'going' used as a synonym (never heard 'rise & go') and my Dad used 'rise & going' and 'total going' or 'run'. The 'going' when I learnt though was the horizontal distance measured between the face of one riser and the face of the next riser (the nosing is not included in this measurement) - so usually about the single step measurement (the tread less nosing) and always equal. 'Run' is generally the total 'going' i.e.: from the face of the first riser to the face of the last riser. The beauty of Blocklayer's tools are that the implications and impacts of these are captured for the user, although one does need to know which is which!

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## Bloss

> My 2 cents. Keep your rise to a maximum of 170 and preferably 165. A much more comfortable rise and you will avoid the issues of having a gap greater than 125 mm between the treads.

   :What he said:  and although 250mm is a common tread 290-300 is IMO a better size nowadays as feet sizes and so shoe sizes (as well as average height & weight) have increased since many of these 'normal' measures were established. I call them 'habit standards' - often what was learnt as an apprentice or a student and then never changed so what is built can depend on the age of the builder! Like bench and table heights - which are mostly too low for the averages of the current Australian population. Australian male average shoe is size 10 (foot size around 273mm) and women's is size 8 (around 251mm) - so the heel has to hang over at they back or the toe might hit the riser. Can't make the going too long or the climbing gait on the stairs will be thrown - so it's all a compromise. Lot's of research being done on ideal 'rise & run', but slow to make it through to standards or best practice recommendations.

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## ringtail

Yep, agree with that. I have womens feet. Interesting  :Biggrin: .

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## Bros

> Maybe be a Queensland thing?

  Probably is I have heard it twice from different carpenters.

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## ringtail

Always rise and go for me. Although the run of the staircase, as in horizontal distance along the ground, is mentioned a bit. Only by those that actually know how to build timber stairs though - which aint many.

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## sol381

rise and going for me.. youre right about not many know how to build stairs.. ive met so many chippies who have no idea. Very simple once you are shown how..

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## ringtail

Yep, the rise of the mighty steel stringer has seen to that. Cheap, quick and lasts a lifetime.

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