# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  What can't I do?

## rodels

I am planning on building a stand alone games room with a bathroom and toilet and am wondering what jobs are illegal for me to perform. 
I read a lot of "you must be registered to work in this industry", but I fail to see anything like" to perform any tasks related to this industry it is a MUST that you be registered".
I understand that if you work you are taking peoples (customers/strangers) money and there have been bad installs, so to be self employed or for an employer to employ you, you must be registered . However, I do not work in the industry and from what is written I do not need to be registered for DIY. 
Where can I find out , written clearly in black and white what I can not do?

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## Bart1080

...not sure where you can find the info.   
Perhaps a good place to start is simply a chat with a building surveyor...assuming you are required/or will get a building permit given its got a toilet?  
Any house extension would need a building permit. 
 In some cases you may also need town planning permit...but your council or building surveyor will be able to confirm with a simple conversion and high level proposal of what your wanting to do.  Ideally you should have an idea of what you want to construct (materials, construction type). 
Straight off the bat, electrical or plumbing works are a licenced trade and need to be done by a licenced person.  Failure to do so, you wont get sign off from your surveyor and risk being in trouble with the regulator.  
Are you doing it as an owner/builder?  Some states may have introduce mandatory requirements since I last undertook such a project...again, your building surveyor will be able to provide you with advice. 
Generally everything else is fair game.....unless you need some form of engineering, soil tests, bushfire assessments which tie in with your building structure requirements.  Your building permit has specific stages that will need to be inspected to confirm it passes before proceeding to the next.

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## rodels

Plan is to get drawings drafted submit for permit to build. Do ALL the work myself, not set time limit but I would be aiming for no more than 3 months.

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## METRIX

You would have to go for an owner Builder permit, this allows you to build the structure as long as it adheres to all relevant BCA / AU standards.
You will be required to have the structure certified along the way from a licensed certifier to ensure what you are building is safe and up to code. 
You cant legally do any Electrical or Plumbing work as these are restricted trades that require a license to do the actual work. 
You can do the rest of the work as long as it all abides by the relevant building requirements, you could either have the frames pre made and delivered, or make the frames on site.
It easier to have them made for you, this way all structural elements will be adhered to by the manufacturer, instead of you trying to figure out what you need or how to do it because you don't have the experience. 
You will most likely have to have some sort of defect insurance coverage that is relevant to any rules in WA. 
If you are building on a slab, it would be wise to have this done by licensed concreters, again this way everything is done right and to code and is probably cheaper than trying to figure out how to do this correctly, if it's done wrong it will be costly to rectify.

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## rodels

People keep telling me I can't do electrical or plumbing work. Where is this written, can you provide reference. 
The old saying goes "don't believe everything you are told".
There has to be legislation somewhere if it is illegal and I would like to read it. 
The slab is the only thing I had in mind to get contracted.

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## droog

> People keep telling me I can't do electrical or plumbing work. Where is this written, can you provide reference. 
> The old saying goes "don't believe everything you are told".
> There has to be legislation somewhere if it is illegal and I would like to read it. 
> The slab is the only thing I had in mind to get contracted.

  Plenty of other sites but given your location. https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...n-requirements

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## PhilT2

Qld Electrical Safety Act, WA will have similar https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/v...042#pt.4-div.1

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## JB1

> People keep telling me I can't do electrical or plumbing work. Where is this written, can you provide reference. 
> The old saying goes "don't believe everything you are told".
> There has to be legislation somewhere if it is illegal and I would like to read it. 
> The slab is the only thing I had in mind to get contracted.

  Without being a licenced Electrician or Plumber, you can't even legally change your own powerpoint or replace a mixer tap..... and you wish to do your complete Electricals and Plumbing? 
Yes, Don't believe everything you hear, but experienced people here are giving good advice. They shouldn't be made to justify their answers.  
You'll also need a plumber for your roof/gutters, (and water/waste). Plus depending on the state you're in- water proofing. 
And no I'm not going to provide references. 
Personally, I think you're in over your head if you wish to 100% do it yourself if you don't work in the industry.  
Tapatalk

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## rodels

> Plenty of other sites but given your location. https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...n-requirements

  Thankyou for that. 
I noticed that cabling for TV and networking is not listed.

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## Whitey66

> Thankyou for that. 
> I noticed that cabling for TV and networking is not listed.

   TV cabling is OK to do but if the network cables are permanent and are connected to an outside source, even through a modem etc. it has to be done by a licenced installer I'm fairly certain.

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## METRIX

> People keep telling me I can't do electrical or plumbing work. Where is this written, can you provide reference. 
> The old saying goes "don't believe everything you are told".
> There has to be legislation somewhere if it is illegal and I would like to read it. 
> The slab is the only thing I had in mind to get contracted.

  Sorry to say but you sound like a very arrogant person, you can't do electrical or plumbing because these are restricted services that you DO need a license for. 
It is well documented on fair trading sites, do some homework and you Will find the information.  
From the sound of your attitude all I can say is good luck, because your in for a world of heartache, I feel sorry for any contractor that will do work for you,

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## phild01

New Zealand is a good place to start, they let you do some electrical :Biggrin:

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## Bart1080

> TV cabling is OK to do but if the network cables are permanent and are connected to an outside source, even through a modem etc. it has to be done by a licenced installer I'm fairly certain.

  Correct....at least in Victoria.  Confidant its the same regulations across the country. 
Rodel, its all of 5min's to google find the legislation (elec & plumbing) which is the same for all of Australia.  Happy for you to provide proof that says otherwise however being in the industry, including involved with regulator investigations I think I and some others here would be out of a job/business if they didnt know what they are talking about. 
Anyway, good luck in getting your signoff with the various stages of the build (ie: you wont get it) if you plan to perform the licenced work illegally.  You may well find the inspector reporting your illegal work resulting in the state regulator on your doorstep with a please explain, the issue of a fine and to remove all illegal work  :Smilie:

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## rodels

I did Google but failed to find anything.  
I have built a standalone room before but just not here. I did everything but the slab myself, I follow the local code (got copies) to make sure it is done to standard. Last thing I want is to hack a room up and cause injury or death due to my build. I could face criminal charges.

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## Bart1080

...you didn't look hard enough.   
Droog provided all the info in his post - https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...n-requirements
a further 1min check on the site: https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...ilder-approval 
and then: https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...al-contractors https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/build...nsing-overview 
Bottom line is like it or not, doesn't matter how much experience you have, even if you were a qualified plumber or electrician overseas, unless you have a licence to practice the trade in Australia then you wont get sign off...period.

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## Bigboboz

I think it's this statement that creates the confusion:
"In most circumstances, only a registered building services contractor can contract for or carry out builder work as described in the _Building Services (Registration) Act 2011_ where the total fee or charge payable exceeds $20,000, within the prescribed area of jurisdiction." 
If you're not paying someone, ie doing it yourself, do the rules apply? Reads like you need to be licenced to DO work for others but no clear if you are doing the work for yourself.

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## ErrolFlynn

I'm a competent welder. Not as skilled as someone who trained as a welder. My trade school days were as a mechanic, where you get some welding training. Anyway, I used to advertise my services and made a few things for people. It got me by between jobs. 
I spotted an ad in the paper back then. Someone was advertising shed frames for sale. Given my skills, that was something I was considering doing too. So, I went to meet this guy and check out what he was about, and check out his product. I was shocked. 
This guy must have bought a welder or been given one, and had a go at putting some garage frames together. A few of his welds looks passable, but most were little short of frogs' sh*t. You probably know what I mean - something you should grind off and start again. I was disgusted by what this guy was selling. And I couldn't resist, I had to tell him, as politely as a stranger could, but firmly as I could, the danger he was putting people in. Any shed built using those frames was liable to collapse, or have the roof torn off by the wind. Selling the stuff was irresponsible. I hope he quit. 
That was before I learned that councils want engineering specs. Something I didn't have. That was before I learned that certain engineering rules need to be considered like ensuring lines of force (not sure that's the correct term) intersect correctly, to say nothing about the strength of materials and load bearing capacity. There's just so much the uninitiated doesn't know, or doesn't even conceive of knowing. 
In so far as a home/self builder is concerned, something I've never attempted, I can understand this guy's frustration. Plumbing: water runs down hill; manage that and there's no problem. Most people know how to replace a tap washer; that's no problem. The thing is, you're dealing with a supply and drain system that's not your own and I guess that brings in legal responsibility to ensure you don't do the wrong thing. Stuff it up for others. Electrical: Get it wrong and it might kill you, or worse, someone else. I know some stuff about electricity (I studied electronics for about three years) but that doesn't mean I'm an electrician. That experience gives me confidence to know how things work, and maybe deal with minor things, but there's no way I'd attempt to wire a house. And for the same reason: the electricity supply is not your own. 
Maybe if the house was on a 100 acre block, miles from anywhere, and off grid and your plumbing and electrical setup affects no one but yourself then there would be no need to have it meet any standards or have the work done by someone licenced. But you'd never be able to sell it. If the building and safety issues (elec shock risk, mold, health issues) were not addressed no one would want to buy it.

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