# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Making kitchen cabinets (not flat packs)

## brettsyoung

Hi all 
I want to make my new kitchen from scratch. I realise I could buy a flat-pack job and put it together but I really want to do the lot myself. Not because I want to save money but because I just wanna make it myself! I've done all the reno work in my house myself and and have got a huge amount of satisfaction and developed a lot of skills doing it (and a heap of cool tools  :Biggrin: ).  
I could photograph and measure a lot of cabinets, but are there plans about for all the typical cabinets/drawers/pantries etc I need to make? It'll be a typical melamine, non-framed kitchen, with doors I'll design and router after I get the basic carcass sorted. Happy to pay for plans - if anyone knows a website I'd be hugely grateful. 
cheers
Brett

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## watson

G'day Brett. checking the DVD files I have.
Give me a PM

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## jago

Me to Watson? ...I cant ask my old man he will just laugh and point ( he's a cabinet maker by trade) as he has always been disappointed with my carpentry skills. I've  installed lots of his kitchens but never made one! :2thumbsup:

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## seriph1

don't really need plans to learn how to make a cabinet carcass  .... just have a look at how one is made and do that ... on the other hand, if you want to know how to make a complete kitchen properly, that's a different story. It takes design skill as well as manual skills with tools etc. to do that well. Be willing to bugger a couple of things up (or "many" in my case!) in order to learn what looks and feels right for you  -  invest in any one of the excellent magazines available that focus on great kitchens. While I am not a fan of "modern" kitchens, I do appreciate thoughtful design and competent construction. I guess I'd have a few hundred publications here on kitchens, but they're all focussed on period style versions  -  but I am sure someone else will be able to give you further guidance. Either way, good on you for having a crack at it ... it really is a worthy exercise. (I sound like some old uncle, but you know what I mean) 
EDIT .... I nearly forgot: Don't be shy about buying quality tools to do the job. The investment in those will pay off, for life. I will post a couple of pics of kitchens I have done if anyone is interested. 
pps: Normie from the New Yankee Workshop did a series on how to make a complete kitchen  -  it is excellent and available for purchase from his website.

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## watson

> (I sound like some old uncle, but you know what I mean)

  You are !!  :Rotfl:

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## joez

Hi Brett last year I built two vanities, laundry and kitchen from scratch. 
I found most flat pack places have catalogs listing sizes and different styles. I got the main details via these then adjusted to fit my location etc... 
Sometimes the hardware you choose will also give you some minimum dimensions etc.. 
Kitset have that planning guide online, listing a lot of sizes etc..     http://kitsetkitchens.com.au/docs/ki...ide_070328.pdf 
good luck    
joez

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## Doc0055

Hi brett, if you could show a drawing of the area you would like to put the kitchen into I could show you how to setout your new kitchen and get a cutting list from that. 
Cheers Scott

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## HigherPlane

Hey Brett 
I've just done this myself. I built 11 cabinets including an oven and a corner cabinet. The design of what you want is pretty straight forward. I learned how to do it using this place I remembered from before the internet called a Library. The book I used was pretty old, but it did the job. You could get it from the Library or buy it online:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Build-Kitchen-Cabinets-Popular-Woodworking/dp/1558706763/ref=pd_sim_b_3]Amazon.com: Build Your Own Kitchen Cabinets (Popular Woodworking)[/ame]
(this book shows how to build framed and frameless cabinets)
From there I made up a pretty simple spreadsheet where I could plug in the dimensions I needed the cabinet to be and it would spit out the dimensions of each panel. It's nothing amazing but I'm happy to share it. 
From there I sent the list to a couple of laminate companies for quotes. There was a MASSIVE variation in the quotes so send to a few places. It ended up costing me just over $1000 for all the melamine cut to size and edged where appropriate. The accuracy was amazing; exactally to the mm! It turned up as one massive jigsaw puzzle that took a couple of hours to sort. Unless you've got a huge slide system set up for your table saw I wouldn't go down the road of cutting this stuff up yourself (I know it's tempting with those $30 melamine sheets at bunnings but it's just not worth it trying to do it yourself). 
I got a company to the doors for me and spent my time making concrete countertops instead. I've seen some great results of people doing the doors themselves on this forum. I'm assuming you'd be using 2pac on the doors. If you've done this before and know what you are doing then no worries... if you haven't though have a look through these forums for it. It doesn't look all that simple. 
Matt

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## Ricardito

Not too late for me I wan to learn to make them too just for the next time when I buy my country house I'll be ready to make great cabinets.
SO where do I start?
Thank you

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## brettsyoung

Thanks for the replies everyone.  
Matt I would really appreciate info on how to set up that spreadsheet. It's exactly what I'm after. I realise a cabinet might be 600x600x400 but of course the cuts are not that simple. 
I've got the book you mentioned (and a couple more) and they're great. I'm not worried about doing it all myself (I am prepared to muck it up a few times - the chook shed has a few holes that need patching anyway), but working out the precise dimensions was doing my head in. And of course I'm dealing with senility, an addiction to procrastination when the maths starts, and an uncontollable urge to start drinking beer when the procrastination starts. 
cheers, Brett

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## Master Splinter

I find the best way of looking at kitchen cabinets is as two basic elements - the side(s) and the back/top/bottom/shelf. 
How you actually choose to cut and assemble them will depend on how you like to work, and the equipment you have on hand.   
Ideally, you want them so that you can make the highest possible number of rough cuts and the minimum number of cuts where you need a decent, accurate, chip free edge.  
I tend to over-obsess with 'chip-free' and use a router to make sure my good edges really are good, but with a decent saw and blade you can get away without a router. 
Sides are just, well, sides - nothing fancy about them, and for any run of base cabinets or wall mounted cabinets, they'll be mostly identical.  Plan your cabinet construction right, and there's only one edge on them that needs to be finished well, and that's the edge that faces towards you and usually gets covered with edge strip.  
Since sides are very repetitive, they are a good opportunity for a router/drilling template - rough cut, tidy up with a router, drill shelf holes and hinge holes, and stack in a pile ready to use (just remember not to drill holes all the way through, and drill them on the right side of the board, and just drill the holes you need and not add a bazillion shelf peg holes that will go mostly unused!!) 
For base cabinets, the back and bottom panels (there isn't usually a full top - that's supplied by the benchtop, and you use  narrow stock to go across the top to hold the cabinet in shape) the biggest variable is the width - this width is your desired finished cabinet width, *less* 32mm (2 x 16mm) for the thickness of the sides.   
As an example, a 600mm wide cabinet has a base and back that are 568mm wide, so that when you put the two 16mm thick sides on, you'll reach your 600mm width. 
When cutting the other parts, instead of looking at them as a base and a back and a top piece to be fiddled around and cut individually - a pain as your measurements have to be spot on every time - I find it easier to make one long, good cut on a sheet to give me a piece that is a constant width, so I am at least consistently inaccurate in the width of the cabinet!!   
So, for a 600mm wide cabinet, I'll cut a 568mm wide strip off a full sheet, giving me a piece that's 568 x 2400mm.  I'll then make three cuts across it to to give me my base, back, and top piece.   
If we say the cabinets are 560 deep by 800 high, I'll cut the base to be 544mm deep (this allows for the 16mm thickness of the back), the back at 800mm high, and the top piece at 100mm deep.  (560 plus either 16mm or 18mm thick doors gives you a total of ~580 deep, which leaves your benchtop to overhang at the front by about 20mm.  Perfect!) 
Both the back and the top piece are really non-critical dimensions, so a sloppy few mm error isn't the end of the world.  
You need a total of three good edges - on both the front and back edge of the base (the front gets edge tape; the back just needs to be straight and chip-free as it butts against the back) and the front edge of the top piece (which also gets edge tape).  Unless you are grovelling inside the cabinet, you are not going to see either the back of the top piece, or the top of the back, so you can get away with a fair bit on these!  The bottom of the back is of course only visible from behind the cabinet, so anything goes, appearance wise! 
Even the base depth isn't all that critical - if you cut it a bit short it just means you bring the back forward a little, as no-one will notice if your cabinet is a few mm less deep than it should be! 
Of course, you'll now be wondering what to do with the leftover bit, which will be a bit under a meter long...make a cut to bring it down to 540mm, and there's your shelf (or two, if you don't mind them a little shorter).

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## brettsyoung

Very useful stuff.  Good idea on setting up a router jig for the hinge and other holes.  I did tell my wife we needed the new pedestal drill press for that job so let's just keep that to ourselves.  cheers Brett

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## HigherPlane

Hey Brett 
Here's the spreadsheet. It's nothing special but does the job. I've left my kitchens measurements in there to show you how it works and also 'cause I was too lazy to go and delete them all. There's some draw stuff in there as well but that was to do with the Lobek tandembox soft close draws that I was putting. I guess you could modify them for whatever draws you are using. 
Master Splinter. I've done a fair bit of cutting up melamine with the countertops and find it really difficult. How do you do it? I've been clamping spirit levels to the sheet and running a circular saw along it as they are way to big to go through my table saw. 
Cheers 
Matt

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## Master Splinter

Last time the dollar was good against the US dollar, I sprung out on one of these.  Makita also make a dedicated track saw, which is a few hundred cheaper than the Festool version.  There's also this for a quite reasonable price. (If I was using that last one, I'd make up a base for the circular saw and a base for a router, so that I could make a rough (1-2mm oversize) cut with the saw, then bring it down to exact size with the router without moving the guide rail.  I'd make a positioning block out of 6mm MDF to get the correct offset every time, as I prefer to work without referring to a tape measure or having to calculate offsets mentally all the time!!) 
Before that, I used an aluminium box section that I got from a concretors warehouse (its supposed to be a concrete screed, but I added a bit to it) and before that it was a 6mm thick MDF homemade guide.  
If you make your own, make sure that you make it large enough so that your saw clears any clamps, and that the piece of wood that the saw guides against isn't too thick and pushes up on the saw motor. 
Don't assume the full 1200x2400 sheet is cut square, either - make an initial cut to give you one good edge to work from. The track I use has a handle/90 degree square combination, so I just use that to square things off.   
A support table like the one shown below is also good so that you aren't trying to catch or support cumbersome offcuts with your free hand.

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## brettsyoung

I've got a triton table saw with the big sliding frame system.  Works a treat.  I did the built-in wardrobe in melamine with it.  I also put a blade in the saw which a guy in the tool shop recommended would minimise chips (don't know if this was rubbish or not but I do get great cuts).

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## brettsyoung

Thanks Matt!  May seem a simple solution, but that stuff's rocket science to me.  cheers, Brett

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## HigherPlane

No worries Brett. If you have any questions about it just ask.  
Splinter. That support table looks more like something you could sell for $15,000 in a modern art gallery  :Wink: . I've just been using a sacrificial table. 
I only ever found the festool version of those saw guides when I was looking and they seemed a bit to expensive. That ProGrip one and the saw base looks like the go. I'm tempted to go out and get one while they are on special (even though I've finished the job). 
Cheers
Matt

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## brettsyoung

Very helpful.  Thanks Matt.

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## Doc0055

A way to work out what the width of each cabinet will be is to use a set out stick. 
Get a piece of wood about 90 wide which is longer than your longest wall. Measure and mark where the walls are in induviduall rows, on those rows mark where the centre of things like the sink and cooktop will be. Using them as referance points measure out from them.
EG, if you want a sink in a certian location, make the shelf wide enough to fit the bowls including the edge lip on the bowl side of the sink and mark it on the set ot stick. add the width of the gables and then work out from there the rest of the cupboards.

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## GCP310

to throw a real spanner in the works, most white melamine is actually 16.5mm, not 16mm. 
so a base cabinet of 600mm, should have a bottom cut at 567mm, as the gables combined will equal 33mm. 
now you think, whats in 0.5mm, Right?, well not much, but if you have a long run of cabinets, and you, for argument sake, make you base cupboard of 600mm with a bottom of 568, your 1mm oversize = 601mm 
now combine a run of say 5 or 6 cabinets, and your kitchen starts to run out 6mm. 
just food for thought, get the verniers out to double check your material.   :Biggrin:

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## Doc0055

Thats where compensation in design will acount for the differances in the board thickness.
When I design a kitchen ,I have my cabinets are 12mm thinner than standard, this leaves a gap between the cabinet and the wall. This allows for runout in the walls, and differances in board thickness. Cabinets will still take a 500 draw runner.
A 30mm fitter at the end of a run up agaist a wall, not only gives you enough play to allow for unlevel walls but also to compensate for board thickness. 
This is the way I do set outs, others have there own way. I like my way, and they would like theirs. No way is wrong it is a matter off choice (and the way you were taught in your appreniceship) 
Cheers Scott

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## GraemeCook

Good Morning Brett 
I would also urge you to go along the path suggested by Matt.   Contract out the supply and cutting of the melamine. 
We are about to do a total kitchen reno, so I built three drawer units each of 6 drawers for the shed as practice, and also to assess a range of drawer slides first hand.   (18 drawers in total).   I drew the basic unit using Sketchup, and then prepared a cutting list of all components : 
*  Each carcase has a back, two sides, top & bottom.
*  Each drawer has a bottom, two sides, front and back plus a face. 
Its not rocket science.   Some drawer slides come complete with the drawer sides (eg Blum Tandembox). 
Then I worked out how much melamine I would need and sought quotes.  I would then have to cut, edge-band, trim and replace stuff-ups. 
Also took cutting list to a local joinery shop.  They supplied melamine, cut it to an accuracy of one-tenth of a millimetre, and edge banded it for $50 higher than the best quote that I got for the supply of the melamine.  There is no way that I could cut as accurately as their $100,000? saw, there is not way that I could edge band as neatly as them, and one minor cutting error would cost more than that $50 price premium. 
Same guys will do all my melamine supply and cutting for our kitchen.   Its simply cheaper and far better than I could do. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## brettsyoung

Good advice GCP and Doc...those tips go on the chalkboard.   
Appreciate the suggestion Graeme but I actually like doing this stuff.  It'll probably end up more expensive, wonky, full of chips and all the doors out of square but I can live with that.  My wife thinks I have problems - especially when, looking at the albums, I flick past the photos of the family and gaze lovingly at a photo of my tiling or cornicing, or spend all weekend re-polishing the very ordinary furniture I've made...

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## Doc0055

Brett,
You can get 3600 x 600 sheets of board already edged through the hardware stores. When you rip and dock them to size there will be no bad edges seen on floor cupboards, with the added advantage off already being edged with 1mm tape.

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## Gaza

alto of the time the pre edge material in the hardware stores is only std board not HMR like should be used in a kitchen.

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## john603

Hi Brett, 
I am planning to do my kitchen all myself as well. However, I have to remove a load bearing wall between kitchen and dining room first which I am current working on. I have done my research for quite a while. I recommended you to have a look at those two cabinet making videos
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3uOkMK4UqM&feature=related"]YouTube - Custom Kitchen Cabinets part 1[/ame] 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apd_Hc5wr0s&feature=related"]YouTube - The Basics of Cabinet Making Part 1[/ame]  
All I know for now is that you have to throw some money on decent woodworking machinary. I bought a second hand table saw. https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=W453 and bought a festool TS55 saw for melamine cut purpose. also built my own triton router table.  
Whether you should use a panel saw with a scribing blade or festool saw to cut melamine sheet seems an ongoing discussion on woodworking forum. I personally dont have the budget and space for an expensive panel saw. However, I found it really doesn't matter as long as you have a router table. If you are not happy about the chipping with a table saw, you can always trim the edge on router table with a perfect edge. However, there would be a cost on router bits because the high volumn you are cutting. I am happy with melamine cuts on both of my saw machinary because it really only need one face look good with some minor chipping on the other face which you can "hide" it. Iron on edge banding is common and easy to do.  
Cabinet doors can be a problem though. You can do a old fashion panel door which I had on my router table but not all people like it. My loverly wife prefer paint baked high gloss doors so I have no choice but has to go to the cabinet maker in the end.  :Annoyed:   
I hope I can make it work.  :Biggrin:

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## seriph1

hey mate  -  if you havent already taken your wall out I strongly recommend retaining a bulkhead as it can become a great feature and potentially saves a world of pain in plaster/cornice repairs and finishing.  
Best of luck with everything  -  try and talk the wife out of high gloss .... way too fragile for mine.... but you know....  :Biggrin:  it will likely be an unwinnable argument  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## john603

Hi Steve, 
Yes, there will be a bulkhead maintained as I can't put F17 kiln dry timber beam into the ceiling area. "A happy wife means a happy life." Kitchen and bath is her area and garage is mine. bit unfair but that works  :Biggrin:

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## snowyskiesau

Despite no prior experience, I successfully put in a new kitchen a couple of years ago.
I first built some typical ktichen base unit sfor the workshop so I could see if my skills were up to it and the assembly techniques worked.
I found that without resorting to the use of a router, I could not get a chip free edge on HMR melamine. I ended up working out the sizes of all the panels I needed to cut and got the board supplier to cut them. The resulting pieces were more accurate than I could have done, chip free edges and didn't cost a whole lot more than buying just the board ($15 per sheet for cutting from memory) 
As far as deciding on the carcase design, visit as many kitchen showrooms as you can, ask questions and to what ever extent possible, pull things apart.

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## Alastair

I have also just done this, (pics somewhere below) 
Went the "cut to size" route, and would do so again. If it would help, I can post the "generic" cab design my cutting service showed me. Worked for me. 
I did panel doors in silky oak, sprayed with satin laquer, but that is my style! 
A   

> Despite no prior experience, I successfully put in a new kitchen a couple of years ago.
> I first built some typical ktichen base unit sfor the workshop so I could see if my skills were up to it and the assembly techniques worked.
> I found that without resorting to the use of a router, I could not get a chip free edge on HMR melamine. I ended up working out the sizes of all the panels I needed to cut and got the board supplier to cut them. The resulting pieces were more accurate than I could have done, chip free edges and didn't cost a whole lot more than buying just the board ($15 per sheet for cutting from memory) 
> As far as deciding on the carcase design, visit as many kitchen showrooms as you can, ask questions and to what ever extent possible, pull things apart.

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## GraemeCook

> hey mate  -  if you havent already taken your wall out I strongly recommend retaining a bulkhead as it can become a great feature and potentially saves a world of pain in plaster/cornice repairs and finishing.

  
I fully endorse Steve's recommendation. 
My house is 130 years old and previous owner knocked out the wall between the scullery and the maid's room to form the kitchen.  The two lathe and plaster ceilings, with the lathes attached to the same ceiling joists were approximately 10mm different in height - the join is obvious - probably need a new ceiling to hide it! 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## brettsyoung

I've bought the hardware and the sheets and the cutting has begun. I'm trying for three cabinets a week, and hoping to have the job done over three months. Time consuming but not difficult so far. 
I'll post photos on progress as I go. Thanks for the useful advice those that provided it. Cheers, Brett

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## Master Splinter

Good stuff.... 
...you might find it easier to keep them unassembled till ready to install.  I know that there is always a flow of colourful language from me when I run out of elbow room.
Pencil rubs off easily but is good for labelling which bits belong with which! 
...and...edging before assembly is way easier!

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## brettsyoung

I've got plenty of storage space so no dramas there.  And I'm not allowed near the NASA-inspired iron so the edging is the responsibility of the wife - and I learned a long time ago that providing advice in that direction was a risky business... 
cheers
Brett

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## BRADFORD

It is not too difficult to cut melamine accurately with out chipping with basic equipment.
I prefer timber edging to that iron plastic stuff, a bit more stuffing around but looks better and is more durable.
This unit was made from 2400 x 1200 sheets using only a hand held circular saw, a table saw and a router, the edge is jarrah.

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## Doc0055

Try getting unglued edgetape, it is cheeper, use contact cement to apply it to the edge ( I like to put on two coats of contact to the board as it sucks into the ends) 
Bonds better than Iron on edge tape. 
Cheers Scott

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## tims

I'm doing the same with DIYing carcasses for my kitchen reno using this standard plan for the boxes:  Free kitchen cabinet plan – Base kitchen cabinet | Kitchen Design & Kitchen Cabinets Research - Renomart 
I'm using melamine coated 16mm particle board and wondered what the thinking is on the type of fasteners to use to join the cut panels? 
I've think that flatpack kitchens use either cam-locks(?) or special screws called confirmat screws to assemble the carcase but are the common chip board screws (45mm) from Bunnings good enough?  
My plan is to drill a countersunk pilot hole into the top board, putting a chipboard screw every 150mm - has anyone assembled boxes using these screws or have any thoughts on what fasteners to use? 
Thanks 
Tim

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## arms

My plan is to drill a countersunk pilot hole into the top board, putting a chipboard screw every 150mm - has anyone assembled boxes using these screws or have any thoughts on what fasteners to use? 
Thanks 
bit of an overkill on the screws ,3 on every joint is more than adequate .and the 45mm screws are ok to use .use glue if you need to but its really not necessary and allows you to dismantle the box if you have stuffed up on sizes

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## tims

Thanks Tom.  If I were to use glue as well, is there a special type that sticks well to both the melamine surface and the exposed chipboard? 
Tim

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## joez

Check out Sachys Robertson Screws for their square head particle board screws.... Best screws you will ever use, great service too...   
Joez

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## arms

> Thanks Tom.  If I were to use glue as well, is there a special type that sticks well to both the melamine surface and the exposed chipboard? 
> Tim

   just use a melamine glue ,AV Syntec sell a av56 glue for melamine   ABL Distribution - AV Syntec AV56 Laminated Board Adhesive

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## brettsyoung

Quick update.  Finished all the cabinets and drawers (except the corner pantry which I'll make to suit when the rest are screwed in).   
My advice is if you want to do all the cutting yourself go right ahead and do it.  The process is very forgiving if you are a few mm out here and there.  As long as cabinets and drawers are square.    None of it is very hard, just time consuming (but very satisfying). 
Lessons learned so far:
- measure 14 times and cut once (very big offcuts box...)
- it is possible to make panels out of two pieces in order to use up the offcuts.  As long as they are relatively hidden, they can be taped and nobody will notice.
- get one of those carbalec edgeband trimmers - best $25 I've spent.  Also, the trimmer can be pulled apart and run along an outside edge.  Took me a while to think of this.  
- don't spend too much time getting edgeband perfect. Sharp blades and quick cuts are fine.  I've noticed the more time I spent trimming the edges the worse they ended up.
- I found trimming edging with a stanley knife much easier than with the router, but that's just me.
- I did the edging after construction.  Before would have been easier no doubt, but this part of the job really isn't a big deal.
- liquid paper works well to paint the wood bits that show after the edging is applied.
- so far I've used about 500 x 7g x 40mm screws, and about 200 x 15mm screws for drawer runners etc.  I've used 12 sheets of 2400 x 1200 HMR melamine.
- I used an all-purpose glue for the cabinets, but only so they would stay square and solid while I dragged them around the shed and generally banged them about.  As Tom warns above, I have pulled a few cabinets apart that I got wrong and re-used the panels, and this would have been difficult if solidly glued. 
Next steps:
- pull out the old kitchen.  This is proving tricky as the old kitchen has been built as part of the wall with very solid 2 x 4 hardwood construction.  Avoiding pulling half the house down will be the challenge.  
- the kitchen is not even nearly square - loses about 100mm over 3.5 metres.  Working with the benchtop maker on a solution to that.
- cutting and routing the mdf sheets for the doors.  Still not sure what pattern I'll go with on this.  Might even attach decorative strips and give the routing a miss (not my strongpoint...).  I'm going to paint in 2-pac (in the neighbour's spraybooth). 
I did a lot of research for prices (and service) and here's where I have sourced everything so far: gas stove (very cheap second), new floor vinyl, cabinet feet and fasteners - Bunnings; MDF and melamine sheets - Magnet Mart (they lend me the big trailer and are generally more helpful in the yard for mine); hinges and handles - Elraco (hardware.net.au - I also decided to go with a pullout pantry and lazy susan because they have a 50%-off sale); benchtop - Cabinets on Demand (very helpful staff and great website); oven and exhaust canopy - ebay (cheaper than any store incl freight); splashback tiles - Beaumont's (at one of their regular sales - again, good staff).   By the way I'm not associated with any of these mobs.  Good service and website are usually the clinchers for me - regardless of how cheap something is, if I get annoyed I walk. 
Photos in a few days. 
cheers
Brett

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## seriph1

well done mate! Looking forward to seeing pics

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## garfield

G'day Brett, 
Mate I've read with interest on this thread and would love to see how your kitchen has turned out if you have some pics. I've often dreamed of making my own too, but I'm just too scared to have a crack! My current kitchen is just on 10 years old but looks 20. Poor workmanships and materials - so with that and your thread I might feel inspired to have a go. 
Cheers
Geoff

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## NLK

Hey Brett, you must have all the time in the world, for the rest of us we all seem to be time poor..just don't take time off work because you will lose money. If your retired and have mill in the kitty and just wanna do it for a challenge then no problems, just be ready for a frustrating time. There is around 150 or more cuts just for the carcasses for a small to ave kitchen, then another bout the same for the doors, then the panels, infills and returns, so at a guess say 300 or so cuts, then comes all the edging, if you don't have the right machine you would have to use the stick on edging which peels, i could go on all day, best just go the flatpack, not from "you know who" but rather use smaller Company that actually cares, can draw up a good design, can show you all the materials available and has good after sales service and good pricing.
Good luck with it, if you end up doing it yourself please post your time including sourcing the materials.

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## john603

> Hey Brett, you must have all the time in the world, for the rest of us we all seem to be time poor..just don't take time off work because you will lose money. If your retired and have mill in the kitty and just wanna do it for a challenge then no problems, just be ready for a frustrating time. There is around 150 or more cuts just for the carcasses for a small to ave kitchen, then another bout the same for the doors, then the panels, infills and returns, so at a guess say 300 or so cuts, then comes all the edging, if you don't have the right machine you would have to use the stick on edging which peels, i could go on all day, best just go the flatpack, not from "you know who" but rather use smaller Company that actually cares, can draw up a good design, can show you all the materials available and has good after sales service and good pricing.
> Good luck with it, if you end up doing it yourself please post your time including sourcing the materials.

  
Have you seen the previous posts? He has already started cutting and building his cabinets. I reckon that flat package is only ok when it fits perfectly in the kitchen. Plus, there is no turning back if you make a mistake at measurement stage while this most happens to DIY enthusiast like me  :Smilie: . However, I planned to do my garage cabinets first and see how it goes to decide whether I will do my kitchen cabinets from scatch. So far, I have almost finished my router table and it's not that scary to do the cabinets as long as you have a clear plan and of course some quality tools. Next, I am on to my garage bench type cabinets which are more similar to kitchen cabinets. Sometimes, it's not about time and money. It's something you do it for fun and feel proud when you finally finish it. Doing it for a living or doing it for fun is different bcz you wont get sick of it.  :Smilie:

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## arms

[QUOTE=john603;848606]Have you seen the previous posts? He has already started cutting and building his cabinets. I reckon that flat package is only ok when it fits perfectly in the kitchen. 
this statement is only correct if you are buying from the larger importers e.g bunnings and the soon to be opened masters stores .i believe most au flat pack manufacturers will custom cut your kitchen some add a cost some dont(i dont) .but if you stuff up your measurements  then thats your business not ours (manufacturers) we have to make cabinets to what you tell us we cant see your kitchen or space so you are our eyes .and personally if you use the argument that its likely you will have to change a cabinet if you have made a size mistake then i would have to question the persons abilities to do the job in the first place.

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## john603

[QUOTE=arms;848688]  

> Have you seen the previous posts? He has already started cutting and building his cabinets. I reckon that flat package is only ok when it fits perfectly in the kitchen. 
> this statement is only correct if you are buying from the larger importers e.g bunnings and the soon to be opened masters stores .i believe most au flat pack manufacturers will custom cut your kitchen some add a cost some dont(i dont) .but if you stuff up your measurements then thats your business not ours (manufacturers) we have to make cabinets to what you tell us we cant see your kitchen or space so you are our eyes .and personally if you use the argument that its likely you will have to change a cabinet if you have made a size mistake then i would have to question the persons abilities to do the job in the first place.

  So, what you are saying is that if you can't do the measurement, dont do the cabinets yourself. If that's correct, why borther to get flat package cabinets since you have to install yourself anyway? Furthermore, even if you get measurement right, how many times that you will get a straight line wall and square corner in a kitchen? and what about an uneven floor? How would you get the plumbing pipe covered and connected where you want? how to connect the dishwasher, oven, cooking top and install ranghood? Can you garantee that you wont make any mistakes? if you can't, should I question THAT person's abilities? Making mistakes is human nature, it's nothing to do with person's abilities. It's about experience and willingness to chanllenge yourself.  
According to your saying, if you can't do the measurement, you'd better go to the custom cabinet makers or builders who take care of everything. I don't see your point and dont take personally. I did not say flat package is not good and I agree that big importers are size limited not local manu.

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## arms

[QUOTE=john603;848709]  

> So, what you are saying is that if you can't do the measurement, dont do the cabinets yourself. If that's correct, why borther to get flat package cabinets since you have to install yourself anyway? Furthermore, even if you get measurement right, how many times that you will get a straight line wall and square corner in a kitchen? and what about an uneven floor? How would you get the plumbing pipe covered and connected where you want? how to connect the dishwasher, oven, cooking top and install ranghood? Can you garantee that you wont make any mistakes? if you can't, should I question THAT person's abilities? Making mistakes is human nature, it's nothing to do with person's abilities. It's about experience and willingness to chanllenge yourself.  
> According to your saying, if you can't do the measurement, you'd better go to the custom cabinet makers or builders who take care of everything. I don't see your point and dont take personally. I did not say flat package is not good and I agree that big importers are size limited not local manu.

  and once again i have raised someones sheckles ,
the trick is in the knowledge not the action to make cabinets, i could go on about different styles of construction to make different cabinets but that would be showing my experience and knowledge and sure as eggs someone else will take exception to that also

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## brettsyoung

gday Garfield. Sorry I've taken so long to reply and update this thread, I've been out of town for the last six weeks. Progress - base cabinets in and benchtops on. Benchtop supply got complicated and I switched suppliers (PM me if you want details on this).  
Still got to install high cabinets (but they are in situ and full of crap already). Wall cabs made and ready to install. Was going to do it before bases but forgot  :Doh: . Lots of extra power points and general tidying up of ancient walls. Filled a lot of previously hidden holes which has made the kitchen much warmer. I've done a bit of damage to the edging during installation - but not much can be done about that I 'spose. 
Making the doors out of MDF now. (Taking ages as I'm crap on the router and keep stuffing it up.) I might wait until the temps are above freezing before I paint. 
It has taken about four months to get to this stage (with about two months of actual work). I made the cabinets first; then pulled out the old kitchen; loosely installed the new cabinets and banged on offcuts for benchtops; then installed properly when I had all the bits I needed and was ready to kick the missus out of there for a few days. No real time without a kitchen (although my wife might have different views about my definition of a kitchen). 
Stuffing everything into a wildly out-of-square kitchen has been fun. Lots of screaming and lots of beer. RSI from the cordless driver. Wife thinks I'm quite the man (albeit from a relatively low base) as the kitchen materialises before her eyes. Less frowns directed toward my beer consumption as a result. Worth it for that alone. 
Best lesson - keep the saw and router blades sharp and don't settle for cheap ones. Not only are the cuts better but it's much faster. 
All in all been a fun job (but not finished by a long way yet...). Pictures up tonight or tomorrow. 
John603 - If you feel like doing your own kitchen and think that stuff's fun then go ahead and do it. Believe me it's not rocket science. I thought I could finish in about three months actual work (an hour or two each night and about half a day each weekend) and I'm looking good to make that timeline. 
cheers
Brett

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## john603

> John603 - If you feel like doing your own kitchen and think that stuff's fun then go ahead and do it. Believe me it's not rocket science. I thought I could finish in about three months actual work (an hour or two each night and about half a day each weekend) and I'm looking good to make that timeline.

  Thanks Brett, I probably will do that after a long break as I have just finished an whole house reno except kitchen by myself with my wife's help. It's been 7 months and we need a bit of fresh air. I learnt a lot from reno such as plumbing and plastering. Woodworking is my favorite part that's why I followed your thread with great interest. Thanks for sharing.

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## garfield

Hi Brett, I look forward to seeing the latest pics. Building my own kitchen and drinking plenty of beer sounds like my kind'a project!  :Redface: ) 
By the way mate, are you using an expensive cabinet saw to rip down all your panels? I'm going to be buying a table saw to replace the old trusty Triton 2000, just haven't decide on exactly what as yet. The ones I'm interested in are just way too expensive - so I'm starting to lean towards the Makita MLT100 or something similar... so be interesting to hear what you're using and how you rate it for doing kitchen cabinets. 
Thanks
Geoff

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## brettsyoung

Garfield I'm using a Triton MK3 with the sliding frame attachment which works fine.  The saw's a twenty year old bosch with a nice new fine blade.  I have made plenty of over/under cuts by a few mm and many of my cuts have been a bit out of square but it doesn't make a lot of distance once it's all constructed and screwed to the wall.  Pictures up this weekend, dinkum.  Brett

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## john603

Hi Garfield, Ｉhave a table saw and festool plunge saw which both costs at $1,500 around. I think Makita is in the same range. After doing some reno particularly on melamine sheet, I would say go for festool. Two things to consider, one is a clean cut at edge with minimum chipping, the other is convenience for a repeatable cut as someone pointed out you may be up to 200 cuts for a kitchen. With little innovations, you may be able to build a verticle shop panel saw for cutting sheet goods and a Festool MFT similar table for repeated cross cut both under $200 dollars. I have done a shop build Festool MFT table for $50 dollors and have a detailed plan for the shop build panel saw. I built my three bedroom wardrobes using a table saw for ripping and MFT table for cross cut. It works fine. If you like, I can email both plans to you. Ripping sheet goods on a table saw is somewhat dangerous so I decide to build a panel saw myself but have not found time to do it. Considerations when buying a table saw could be, saw power first (3hp is good also an additional adv for dado capacity), ripping capacity, mobilised base for small shop, left/right tilt (left is my choice), and enclosed dust cabinets. Makita is a small reliable unit with powerful blade but you will find you may need to build a shop extension table for it. Good luck.

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## garfield

> Garfield I'm using a Triton MK3 with the sliding frame attachment which works fine.  The saw's a twenty year old bosch with a nice new fine blade.  I have made plenty of over/under cuts by a few mm and many of my cuts have been a bit out of square but it doesn't make a lot of distance once it's all constructed and screwed to the wall.  Pictures up this weekend, dinkum.  Brett

  Cool! I'll keep an eye out for the pics this weekend. 
Cheers Brett.   

> Hi Garfield, Ｉhave a table saw and festool plunge saw which both costs at $1,500 around. I think Makita is in the same range. After doing some reno particularly on melamine sheet, I would say go for festool. Two things to consider, one is a clean cut at edge with minimum chipping, the other is convenience for a repeatable cut as someone pointed out you may be up to 200 cuts for a kitchen. With little innovations, you may be able to build a verticle shop panel saw for cutting sheet goods and a Festool MFT similar table for repeated cross cut both under $200 dollars. I have done a shop build Festool MFT table for $50 dollors and have a detailed plan for the shop build panel saw. I built my three bedroom wardrobes using a table saw for ripping and MFT table for cross cut. It works fine. If you like, I can email both plans to you. Ripping sheet goods on a table saw is somewhat dangerous so I decide to build a panel saw myself but have not found time to do it. Considerations when buying a table saw could be, saw power first (3hp is good also an additional adv for dado capacity), ripping capacity, mobilised base for small shop, left/right tilt (left is my choice), and enclosed dust cabinets. Makita is a small reliable unit with powerful blade but you will find you may need to build a shop extension table for it. Good luck.

  I'd love a copy of the plans John. I was looking at getting a Carbatec, Hare and Forbes type table saw but they're way too expensive. I was hoping to get a decent table saw for around $800 originally, but soon discovered that I'd need to bump up the money by another $700 - $1000 when including a sliding table for cross cuts and to have a new 15amp plug installed by a sparky. My father-inlaw just bought a Makita MLT100 for $550 and I think it seems like a good little unit that is capable of doing my rips @ 625mm wide. I was thinking of building a sliding compound saw work bench to do my cross cuts with the savings of not buying a cabinet saw.  
I'd be interested to have a look at the plans for the panel saw though for sure. 
Thanks
Geoff

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## john603

Hi Geoff, I don't know whether it's against "rules" here to post a subcription from Shopnotes. It may be against copyright or sth. If you provide me with your email, Im happy to email you Shopnotes #88 which includes the plan for a shop built panel saw. Cheers, john

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## garfield

PM sent with my email address John.  
Brett, I got all pumped to see your pics and nothing...  :Cry:

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## brettsyoung



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## garfield

Hi Brett, 
Thanks for the updated pics mate, Getting there hey. 
What are you doing about the doors mate - are you making them and sending them off to be painted or something like that and also did you do the mason's mitre cut in the bench top?  
John, got the plans too mate. Thanks for that mate.    
Cheers
Geoff

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## brettsyoung

old pics loaded in haste...job's actually a bit more advanced (I dunno how and can't be bothered to fix date thingy on camera).  Wall cabs and fridge cab done.  Everything in earlier posts.  benchtops cost me $1200 incl cuts; doors MDF painted myself.  Will put more pics up when I can.

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## john603

Thanks for sharing, brett. It's looking good. However, do you intend to patch the holes on the wall? I know it would be covered by cabinets.  
Geoff, my pleasure. Enjoy it!

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## brettsyoung

yes John.  15 minute job with new plasterboard.  We live in a weatherboard house and every gap is a potential draught entry.  The plasterboard there is a bit soft and crumbly anyway, and it needs to hold up tiles and power points.

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## garfield

G'day Brett, 
Just wondering how you're going with your kitchen project... finished mate? I'd love to see some pics of the kitchen with your doors and etc up. 
Cheers 
Geoff

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## barney118

Good thread, I am the same and would like to make from scratch. I have made a Bunnings one 13 yrs ago for a rental. I have to look at the links provided later. Did you only glue/screw together ie no dows, also I can't remember (Bunnings) did you use solid backs. What about the bottoms in drawers? I would need a corner pantry how would you do the shelves? Biscuit join? I have all the triton gear, router/ table biscuit dovetail finger joiners, so what better way to put them to use. Can you recommend saw blade for the job, it's worth spending here since I have the rest. 
Also I believe there is different types of melamine blue or green or something like that.   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## ebanemad

A quick short cut that I took with my kitchen reno was just to buy all my panels that required edging with the edge tape already applied. Saved a lot of time. All I had to do then was cut a few back and dock ends. 
Relatively easy with the right tools but still not as easy as a flat pack.

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## bowseruni

will be taking on a similar project in a few months. Awaiting all my Siemens appliances to come from the UK before I start planning too much.
Saved a bundle on the appliances

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