# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  Owner Building Triumphs/Pitfalls

## woodchip

Hi All, :Smilie: 
Thought I would start a thread about some of the good & bad things about owner building. Im about to start an OB (new house), have done one before about 7 yrs ago so ive forgotten a lot, Im a carpenter, but been out of the trade for 2 yrs, whilst being a home dad. 
Pro's:
Fantastic sense of acheivement from building your own home.
Saves money (If you are a tradesperson, or very handy to start with), if you dont make too many mistakes, (a saying in the trade is "you make a stuff up with something on the first day, & you spend the rest of the job trying to fix it).
The ability to sutly(sp?) change things as you go, for example: you actually get to see the size of the toilet & are able to push that wall further out or whatever.
You get to use some of the old material off cuts you've had laying around the garage for years.
You get to choose everything, all materials, fittings etc. 
Cons:
Finance is near on impossible to obtain.
You need know at least the basics of all aspects of house construction.
Helps to have friends or at least good contacts for tradespeople.
Its very possible to totally underestimate the cost of construction & end up with a half built house.
You will most likely move in before youve totally finished, ie some door handles missing, the odd room not painted, pathways not made, not landscaped, etc etc etc.
The owner builder has to take full responsibility for all work, you will have to negotiate with various trades if your not happy with their work.
It'll take longer than you think.
Insurances are expensive & a little difficult to obtain, you have to jump through a few hoops! 
A few little things that may help:
Build your own site toilet, if you have some sheet metal laying around for cladding, build a small toilet with a plywood floor, get a cheap toilet suite from Bunnys or a second hand place, its easy & will save over $70 per month.
Make sure you complete within your insurance period or it really gets expensive to extend cover.
If you know a tradie is a honest and hard worker, try to pay them by the hour, it will be cheaper.
Shop around for materials, you will be surprised how much you can save.
Get a professional to do the waterproofing. 
Thats all I can think of off the cuff, anyone got any other points to add or disagree with mine?
cheers
Woodchip

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## Dan574

I have to agree with everything.  i successfully completed an OB house in 2004 with my old man(carpenter) and me and family doing all work except plumbing, electrical and roofing. 
It was a huge roller coaster of emotions but I would do it again tomorrow if I could get finance.  
I was able to get 95% of the vale in finance back then now your lucky to get 80% so Ive had to find a big builder. 
Here are some pics of the house.

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## Bedford

Two things to consider, if financing, budget into the deal what it may cost if there are long delays, and when booking Tradies make sure you are ready for them to be able to do their job. 
There is nothing worse than turning up to a job and not being able to proceed because it's not ready.

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## Bloss

More to consider for an OB:  It'll take twice as long as you reckon and cost at least 50% moreIs your relationship worth losing over a houseHow much do you value your own time (see 1 above)Those tradies making a living out of their skills and knowledge might just be onto something  :Cool:

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## askaholic

Halfway through my owner build of our new house, have I over spent the budget (yes), am I behind on time (yes), Is it causing problems in my relationship (yes) would I do it again......Bloody Oath Havin A Ball. :2thumbsup:

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## Belair_Boy

Also halfway (optimistic??) through my owner build of our house so can't give the final verdict, but here are some of my thoughts and experiences. 
My dad was an owner builder and renovator so I guess it was inevitable I would go down the same path, having grown up on building sites and around tools I was a lost cause.  
Someone had "TIME, MONEY, QUALITY pick two" as their signature.  This is very applicable to owner building and in my case I have picked money and quality.
Any chance of an accurate time frame went out the window ages ago, I would be happy if things only took twice as long as I thought.  :Smilie:  
I could not have afforded to have someone else build the house I wanted and so the only way I could get the required end result was to do it myself.  I enjoy being an owner builder and for me, I would rather be spending my time on site than in an office earning money to pay someone else and feeling like I was not in control.  Ah, a control freak I hear you cry.  Well yes, probably and somewhat of a perfectionist as well. 
Saving money takes time, the cost of a jackhammer bought at auction and many hours of labour is much cheaper than an excavator and rock breaker but it depends on how you value your time and your stamina (or should that be sanity). 
You need to be an optimist, otherwise you wouldn't get out of of bed some days.
You need a partner who supports you and is committed to the build.
You need practical skills to do the job and faith in your ability to learn new ones as needed.
Don't be afraid to ask for help if you don't know how to do something (that is why we are all here after all) and don't blindly accept everything you are told, even by "experts". 
I have found that it is invaluable to have good working drawings of whatever you are building.  Making things up as you go along is just inviting compounding problems as you progress.  
I taught myself AutoCad and did all my own drawings.  It is much easier to make changes and see potential problems on the screen than in timber or concrete. 
Would I do things differently if I was to start again, Yes, I have learnt a lot and wouldn't make a few of the mistakes again.
Would I do it again, Absolutely. 
Watch http://www.renovateforum.com/f176/ic...delaide-94764/ to keep an eye on my trials and tribulations and see what my thoughts are when I finally finish.

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## peg

We are doing a home renovation/extention.  We basically added a new  bedroom, varanda and hallway onto our house.  We are almost finished but  i will tell that you i'll never do it again.   The OP is absolutely  correct.  It will take twice as long and cost 50% more then you think. 
We thought our small reno would cost us 20K but by the time we've finished, we will have spent around 40K  
A few pointers we've learnt are: 
1. Tradies will leave you all their rubbish. (except for plumbers, they are very professional) 
2. Tradies will turn up when they want to. 
3. Tradies will expect payment immediately and prefer it in cash. 
4. Most tradies will not send you a receipt for payment unless you request it... and even then you may not get a receipt. 
5. If they break or damage something, they will not tell you about it, or will tell you it was already like that.  
Here is a rundown of how each of our tradies performed.  
Demolition:  Our guy turned up exactly when he said he would.  He did  not have the needed tools and I had to go to Kennards hire and get him a  cement cutter.  This was at my expense.  He worked for 4 hours removing  our old brick/cement varanda and charged me for 6hrs. He broke a  downpipe and did not make an offer to take any money off his bill. He  did not send a receipt for payment.  He did not remove all the rubble  but left piles of broken bits in our front yard. He also did not remove  an old footing that he should have removed.   
Concreter:  He turned up a week late. He left a tonne of packing sand in  my driveway and refused to take it with him even after I asked him to  remove it.  He broke the other downpipe at the other side of the house  and crushed the drainage pipe and told me it was already like that.   Other then that, his cement slab was perfect.  
Roof Plumber: very professional, came when he said he would, did the job and took away his rubbish.
Drain Plumber: very professional, cleaned up all his mess, dealt with my  packing sand problem for me by putting the packing sand into the  trenches for me as I asked.  
Roof tiler:  came a week late, left the job unfinished for a further 3  weeks before coming back to mortar the ridge cap tiles. We used 2nd hand  terracotta tiles along with our existing tiles that could be reused.   He didnt take our existing tiles into consideration and ordered far more  tiles then we needed, which i had to pay for, he put all the green  mossy 2nd hand tiles on the front of the house and my nice clean tiles  towards the back (lovely view from the street, not!)  Left a huge pile  of broken tiles sitting on my front lawn and in my garden bed even  though there was a skip bin only a few meters away. Am yet to receive a  receipt from him.  
Carpenter: Only turned up when he wanted to. We were paying him for  labor only so we provided all the materials, he gave us a list based on  our plans...we bought his nails of which included two box's of 3,000  framing nails, box of 300 cement nails & box of 1000 fixing nails.   He used 20 cement nails and took the remainder of the box with him.  He  apparently used the first box of plaslode framing nails then asked for a  2nd box...for the varanda section....3000 nails for a 3mtr long  varanda!  And proceeded to tell me he used all of them!  He didnt do any  fixing but took that box of nails too. He  did not properly cover the  roof with tarps, i had to get up there and redo it all. Did not install  varanda columns properly. Overcharged $300 which we asked him to rectify  and he did.  Still has not provided us receipt of payment..all of which  has amounted to $9K  
What we've learnt is to ensure the tradies know your expectations before  they start the job.  If you want them to deal with their rubbish or  left over materials, be sure to tell them that is a condition of quoting  the job.  And check all work before you pay anyone.

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## ringtail

Sounds like you had a rough trott peg. 1 question. Were you on site while the work was carried out ?. This is the golden rule of successful owner building. If you are just taking on the role running the project, you must be on site every second that the trades are there. No slipping off to work, no going off to lunch. you must be there to supervise and direct. The majority of all OB problems, or indeed all problems on sites is due to lack of supervision. I know the tradies are meant to be professionals but as you have experienced, not many are.

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## peg

> Sounds like you had a rough trott peg. 1 question. Were you on site while the work was carried out ?. This is the golden rule of successful owner building. If you are just taking on the role running the project, you must be on site every second that the trades are there. No slipping off to work, no going off to lunch. you must be there to supervise and direct. The majority of all OB problems, or indeed all problems on sites is due to lack of supervision. I know the tradies are meant to be professionals but as you have experienced, not many are.

  Hi,  Yes i was there the whole time... the tradies had no problem telling me tall stories about how something was already broken, or why its not their job to do a certain thing that I asked.  The demolition guy didnt even try to remove the varanda footing, he just looked at it and said 'thats not gonna move, dont worry, the concretor will take care of that' 
When the concretor broke the other downpipe he said "there's nothing you can do about that, your pipes were stuffed anyway" lol  
I guess the problem was that I had little experience and they knew it.

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## ringtail

Yup, the take advantage factor is there for sure. Unfortunatley, unless you are dealing with tradies that you know, you have to rule with a iron fist. Firm but fair. I'm sure Ive said it before re bad tradies - ask them if they would be happy to pay for that quality of work it if was at their house, or if they would accept broken pipes at their house. Some damage may be unavoidable but with a bit of care and common sense most can be minimal if any. Keep smiling :Tongue:  
ps - I suspect your verandah may be more nails than timber :Biggrin:

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## peg

> Yup, the take advantage factor is there for sure. Unfortunatley, unless you are dealing with tradies that you know, you have to rule with a iron fist. Firm but fair. I'm sure Ive said it before re bad tradies - ask them if they would be happy to pay for that quality of work it if was at their house, or if they would accept broken pipes at their house. Some damage may be unavoidable but with a bit of care and common sense most can be minimal if any. Keep smiling 
> ps - I suspect your verandah may be more nails than timber

  yeah, i think he was going for the speckled look  :Annoyed:

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## Black Cat

> Halfway through my owner build of our new house, have I over spent the budget (yes), am I behind on time (yes), Is it causing problems in my relationship (yes) would I do it again......Bloody Oath Havin A Ball.

  Couldn't agree more. But you do have to have a partner who is supportive, or better still, go it alone (then there is no-one to moan about the draughts, the leaks, the dirt that is still piling up everywhere, and the table saw that has not yet made it out of the loungeroom ...

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## pinger

The industry is very competitive these days- the big builders only net 3 to 5% profit after all told.  
Unless you are going to do alot of the work yourself, you will not get any significant savings. And you need significant savings to make it worth the time, sweat, financial stress and emotional capital.

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## shauck

> Couldn't agree more. But you do have to have a partner who is supportive, or better still, go it alone (then there is no-one to moan about the draughts, the leaks, the dirt that is still piling up everywhere, and the table saw that has not yet made it out of the loungeroom ...

  Reminds me of when I tore the bedrooms apart, removing wall and rebuilding with built in wardrobes, pulling back wall apart to add large window and double doors. I worked on it for three weeks from demolition to finished painting. In that time, every day, dismantled the futon in the morning, moved other stuff about and at the end of the day packed up, cleaned up and moved stuff about again and set up the futon again. Every Day!!! Just so partner wouldn't feel so put out by the upheaval.

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