# Forum Home Renovation Fences & Screens  Treated pine or cypress pine for picket fence

## Maryc

Hi I hope someone will be able to help me decide what timber would be best.  I am having a 1.8m high picket fence plus sliding gate made and the quotes I have received vary in the timber they use for the pickets.  One company said Cypress pine is good because it shows the timber if I wanted to stain the picket, is smooth on both sides and also water doesn't tend to swell in the timber.  The other two companies chose Treated pine because the timber is stronger and would not tend to split like cypress would. They also said water wouldn't make the timber swell if it was treated correctly ie painted all round including the bottom.  The only downside I can think of is that the timber wouldn't look nice stained but would be better off painted (I haven't decided whether to paint or stain yet) and that one side would be reeded unless I wanted to pay alot more for smooth on both sides. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks :Smilie:

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## BaysideNana

Just one thought...are you in an estate with a fence code?  The house I've just sold had to have 1800 double lapped and capped treated pine fencing and after the first year it was quite obvious the lower half of the palings were lifting and twisting where neighbours had sprinklers on their lawn (and also the fence).  Top part of the fence was still OK.   
Fences were left au natural...well as natural as TP can be!!  LOL  Any paint or stain was not to be visible from the street.      

> Hi I hope someone will be able to help me decide what timber would be best.  I am having a 1.8m high picket fence plus sliding gate made and the quotes I have received vary in the timber they use for the pickets.  One company said Cypress pine is good because it shows the timber if I wanted to stain the picket, is smooth on both sides and also water doesn't tend to swell in the timber.  The other two companies chose Treated pine because the timber is stronger and would not tend to split like cypress would. They also said water wouldn't make the timber swell if it was treated correctly ie painted all round including the bottom.  The only downside I can think of is that the timber wouldn't look nice stained but would be better off painted (I haven't decided whether to paint or stain yet) and that one side would be reeded unless I wanted to pay alot more for smooth on both sides. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks

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## Maryc

Thanks for replying BaysideNana 
Was your fence a paling or picket fence? I needed to go through Town planning to get consent to build this 1.8m high fence plus the building permit. I am just concerned because I don't want to spend all this money if a few years down the track the pickets are falling off. Thanks

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## BaysideNana

Mary, it had to be double lapped and capped....so just plain palings to fit under the capping.   It didn't seem to bother the neighbours but I could see it would need some serious work in a couple of years.  Not my problem now as the house has been sold and the new owner didn't seem to care either... but it's not something I would repeat again in a hurry if I had a choice.   
When the fence was wet from rain, it didn't seem to have any affect suppose because it was evenly wet but this was the lower half where sprinklers were wetting the fence for hours on end on hot days.  One adjoining neighbour didn't use a sprinkler, neither did I, and their part of the fence was still perfect.   
Good luck with your decision.

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## shauck

Some forum members would say go hardwood.

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## ringtail

> Some forum members would say go hardwood.

  
Yes, yes they would.  :Biggrin:

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## shauck

> Yes, yes they would.

  Not thinking of anyone in particular  :Wink 1:

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## METRIX

IMO, I wouldn't bother with Treated Pine, especially if it is reeded on one side (will look ugly from the inside), sounds like they would be using decking boards if they are reeded, these will look awful and the many knots will fall out after some time, go either Cypress or HW. 
One of the first Picket fences I built was for my mate a 1200 high, 30+ meter long Cypress around 15 years ago, pickets were fixed with HDG  screws all recessed below surface and patched up to give a smooth front surface, now days they just nail the pickets on with a bradder gun, or randomly placed screws which are not recessed and patched, so when you paint it they look very amateur. 
The fence is still in as good as can be called new condition apart from a slightly faded paint job, but still structurally sound with no rot. 
Couldn't say the same if it was built from Treated Pine, I assume it would have twisted and fallen apart long ago.  
If these are the only two choices I would take Cypress any day, it is classified as a Class 1 timber above ground (+40 year life), and Class 2 if used below ground (15-25 year life)   Cypress Supplies - We supply Cypress Timber - Termite and Chemical Free That's the Cypress Guarantee - We supply Timber Caboolture, Timber Brisbane

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## Maryc

Thanks everyone for your replies, if costs were no concern I would definitely have chosen a hardwood timber but as I have to work within a budget it leaves either the tp or cypress.  Thanks Metrix for attaching info about what cypress is.  The fencer who quoted with cypress said that once you coat the timber either with stain/oil or paint it would prevent or reduce the splitting.  Has anyone used either for their picket fencing and how does it look years after?

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## shauck

I've not used it for fencing but for decking I have. It could be a case of quality control (I bought it from far away so I was reluctant to return the lesser quality boards).  
Some have knots and cracks and so on, others warp (more sideways rather than cupping). A few shrinking along the length. Most are good.  
I'd say they are abused in that I should have re-oiled them long ago but mostly, unless they have imperfections, they are still fine. I have a section of the deck that continues round the side of the house that has yet to be oiled. They have gone a silvery grey and haven't shown any worse signs of wear than the other boards.  
Also all the decking, posts and rails when delivered, had to be stored under tarps for a short while and suffered some serious weather (a couple years back with that crazy rain we had). I'd say that caused quite a lot of bowing in the posts and rails, so I was less than happy with that. Not much I could do about that tho. 
I guess the most I can say about all this is (with my limited experience) quality is most important, low moisture content and proper stacking and storage before use. If you are able to have some control over these aspects, you should do better.

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## METRIX

All timber will, warp if it is not handled properly, no matter how good it is, or it's moisture content etc any timber left lying around exposed to weather, not stacked or covered properly, getting wet, or left un coated in exposed situations, timber is a natural product, and absorbs moisture, and like anything if mis treated will respond accordingly, some respond worse than others 
From my experience Cypress is no different to any other wood, you will get good and bad pieces, this is true of any timber, soft or hardwood, dressed or un dressed..
I don't think you should be too concerned, If your installers build the fence properly and attach the pickets securely, then there should not be any movement in them to allow for any problems, but treated pine pickets will inevitably want to move more over time as this is inherent in this type of wood. 
Anyone that knows anything about timber, would recommend cypress over Treated pine for your application any day, Treated Pine is basically too soft, and too susceptible to warping, twisting, splitting etc, basically due to its makeup, ie, grown very quickly, multiple larger knots and no real quality control during production. 
I have seen so many Treated Pine decking stacks at auctions that must have been the absolute bottom of the barrel when QA was used, If it wasn't for the treating, they were only good for firewood. 
I have also seen new TP decking by TASCO at timber merchants that I would not even spit on, these were covered in chatter marks, not dressed properly and basically were just rubbish, I have never seen this with cypress pickets, overall the quality is much better, of course there will be some bad bits here and there, but this is the same of any timber. 
I have seen many cases of Cypress floor boards which were under kitchen sinks that had been leaking for years, so many years that the nails had completely rusted out which were holding the boards down and the boards were covered in mud etc where critters had been living in the moist environment, and the boards were basically saturated constantly, They had turned Black from the constant abuse. 
When you clean the muck off them the boards were still perfectly re usable, this is a testament to how robust cypress is, if this had been TP it would have lasted 5 minutes and been destroyed. 
Cypress is naturally highly resistant to termites, radiator pine is not, this is why it has to be treated with chemicals to give it resistance properties. 
Take a look around your local area, and look closely at picket fences, noting the quality of install and the finished product in relation to how the pickets have stood the test of time, small fences such at 900 - 1000mm will stand up better than one of 1800 height, as there is less distance between the rails for the timber to want to move.

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## droog

It will come down to the quality of the materials, a good fencer should be able to source quality material suitable for the job, and yes treated pine can be sourced smooth all round it does not have to be reeded thats how they machine if for use as decking.
I would recommend cypress if you are staining it I believe it will give a better result stained, but crap quality materials will always look crap.
We had a capped picket fence built by a quality builder that took pride in his work and it shows. The materials are a mix of cypress and treated pine, the selection came down to the quality of the product available at the time. The fence is painted.
Both cypress and treated pine will crack and split and is more about the quality and the moisture content of the materials as well as the final environment.
I also built a picket side fence in a hurry (needed to keep the new dog in) the only material I could source for the pickets was cypress but they are of crap quality, still looks like crap today even after it was painted. 
Regards Dave

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## shauck

Still, if I had my choice, in order of preference, hardwood then cypress then treated pine.

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## Maryc

Thankyou everyone for your feedback I have decided to go ahead and use Cypress.  There is a house nearby who had an extremely high picket fence no capping installed using cypress. The fence is very well made and is still looking good no splits from what I can see 8 months later, the owner hasn't oiled or painted it yet though.  Just one more question should the bottom rail of a sliding gate be nailed down or bolted down to the concrete?
Thanks Mary

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## METRIX

Bolted or screwed down, nails will come lose over time. 
BTW I think you made the right decision picking Cypress over TP, put some pics up when it's done.

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## Maryc

An update to my picket fence, I decided to go with using cypress post and cypress pickets.  In the next few weeks the fencer will install my fence and sliding gate.  I had initially planned to undercoat the pickets with Dulux primer undercoat and then one coat of solaguard before the pickets are installed and then finish off with the last coat once the fence is up.  A friend suggested that the fence should be installed and allowed to weather for atleast a month before undercoating.  He also recommended undercoating with a oil based primer and not water based.  The reason he gave to not paint now was that once up the timber will move and adjust a bit.  Please offer me your opinion and advice as I am not sure what is the best way to do this.  Thanks

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## johnstonfencing

Others feel free to correct me if wrong. 
I think wattyl solaguard paint is water based so should use a water based undercoat first not oil based! 
If this was my fence I would paint, as a minimum, the back of the pickets and the front face of rails, posts etc prior to installation then the rest as soon as possible after the fence is up and nail/screw holes are filled.  This would seal the timber and if there was movement over the months/years unsightly bare timber sections wont show like it would in spots that can't be painted when the whole fence is done after completion. 
Hope that makes sense. 
Cheers

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## Footscrazy

> If this was my fence I would paint, as a minimum, the back of the pickets and the front face of rails, posts etc prior to installation then the rest as soon as possible after the fence is up and nail/screw holes are filled.  This would seal the timber and if there was movement over the months/years unsightly bare timber sections wont show like it would in spots that can't be painted when the whole fence is done after completion. 
> Hope that makes sense. 
> Cheers

  Good advice.
It's also good practice to seal the checks in the posts and the end grain of the rails before they are nailed up, and it is essential that the bottom of each picket is sealed.
The fencer will do it but you will need to pay him for the extra time involved.

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## shauck

> Others feel free to correct me if wrong. 
> I think wattyl solaguard paint is water based so should use a water based undercoat first not oil based!

  It's fine to use oil based undercoat with acrylic top coat. Many will say it's preferred. Especially externally.

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## barney118

> Yes, yes they would.

   

> Not thinking of anyone in particular

   :Goodpost:  :Wat they said: , dont say we didnt warn you in 12 mths. 
heres my sliding gate I made myself.

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## Maryc

Shauck can you tell me why oil-based primer/undercoat is preferable for outside use, I ask this because someone else said the same thing.  So you all agree that I should paint the pickets before they are erected and not let them weather.  Another question is these pickets have a nice smooth feel almost like they have a coating on them, I contacted the supplier and they said this is how cypress feels and that no coating has been on them, is it ok to just undercoat them or do I need to wipe them over with turps? thanks again

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## shauck

I think you should ask the painters that one but I think it's because it gives better protection from weather, stronger bond to timber. You don't have to paint the whole fence before putting it together unless you have the space to lay all of it out. If you do, I would paint the rails and posts first, let them dry and lay them out so you have something to rest your pickets on to dry. Could take up a lot of room.

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