# Forum Home Renovation Paving  paving steps

## tony2096

Hi, 
I've seen lots of advice on laying pavers on roadbase/sand but I haven't seen anything about using pavers to cover steps. 
What are the rules of thumb for this? 
eg   do I use the same mortar as for brick-laying?What thickness of mortar for 50mm pavers?Do you use the same 4mm gap between pavers as per normal paving or does it need to be wider to get a reasonable mortar join?I'm planning on using bullnose pavers for the treads - what is the standard overhang?
Are bullnose pavers worth the cost? Boral Promenade 400x400 bullnose are $35 each whereas the equivalent square paver costs $7. 
Tony

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## Planned LScape

Bullnose pavers are a good addition, they do cost more but the look it pretty worth it. Safer than a sharp edge too. 
It's better to form up your step foundation with concrete or bricks and lay on that. It's tricky to do but draw it on paper 1st to get the dimensions. Allow 190mm step heights, and I usually allow about a 30-40mm overhang.. I usually use a 4:1 mix for mortar, but get some bondcrete (or equivalent), make up a mix with water and paint or brush both the bottom of the steps and the foundation with it. This ensures the mortar sticks to both surfaces, must work as those I have ripped up before take chunks out of the concrete.  
I find it easier to lay the risers 1st, then mud in the steps. If using a grid pattern where possible it's good to match the lines of the rest of the paving area with the same gaps. You may have to make the grout mix stiffer so it stays in the gaps of the bullnose overhang, just rub it in with rubber gloves.

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## tony2096

Thanks for the info. 
The existing steps were brick fronts + concrete tread and I've ripped off the cracked concrete and re-pointed the brickwork to make it stable. Plan to fill behind the bricks with solid concrete (no reo - hoping just concrete is OK) to form a solid platform and then cover with pavers, as you suggest. I'm just using the existing layout so no need to do all the calculations.  
Interesting you say do the risers first - I'd have done the treads first thinking that they were the crucial pieces and the risers can just be cut to fill the gap. Given that the steps go round a corner, they are all different shapes so I'll have to see if this makes a difference. 
Tony

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## Planned LScape

It depends on the size of the steps, you could lay the treads 1st. I usually however do the risers as if you pave the step, then put risers on top you will see the mortar the riser is laid on. If you have a paver behind the step tread though, you may be able to lay the steps then come back and do the rest afterwards

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## autogenous

It will depend on what your doing whether you wish to lay the risers or the treads first. 
Something I would like to add is  to smear or notch tilers glue on the back/underside of the treads or capping on walls for that matter. 
I'm unsure whether its release agent or the nature of some capping but they seem to fail especially with high traffic. Tilers glue is good insurance against the treads working loose especially if you have someone bouncing on the overhang. Allow for the overhang where the bullnose starts or 5 mm more. If its a 40mm thick tread then your probably looking at @ 25mm. 
Too much overhang and the treads potentially flip up with the leverage after someone eg:drags a fridge on a fridge trolley down the ends or front of the treads or goings. 
With the mortar joints normally its butter them but it takes a little trowel skill. 
You can do what Planned L-scape said or have the glove/finger over the joint and fill with a  rod or you fingers. 
You could also cut some conduit (eg:100mmx 40mm or to suit paver thickness.)  and slide it over the front of the tread joint and fill it from the top.

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## tony2096

Well my preparation is well underway: levels set out and pavers delivered and stacked.  
The first 3 photos show the work I'm doing: paving the lower steps in photo 1. Then a path that goes along the house and wraps round the steps in phot 2 and out to the back garden in photo 3. Also adding the same pavers to the steps in photo 2 up to the front door. 
Photo 4 shows the result of 4 hours work carrying the pavers into the garage from the nature strip! 
Now I still havent worked out what sort of gap between pavers I need when paving the steps. The path will be filled with roadbase and sand and the pavers will be 4mm apart on this section. Id like to use the same spacing for the steps but especially with the bullnose pavers I cant see that the mortar is going to stay in place. Do I have to go with a 10mm gap and just accept that the steps wont line up with the other pavers?

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## tony2096

As for cutting pavers: I offer the following experience for others who are wondering what works.  
I followed advice on this forum and just got a pair of diamond concrete-cutting blades for my 100mm angle grinder and this works very well at cutting 40mm cement pavers. After reading some posts saying a brick saw was the only sensible alternative, I was pleasantly surprised how little dust and noise it generated. Hand cutting produces a pretty straight edge (15mm cut top and bottom then knock with mallet) but Im going to build a couple of jigs to make it quicker and also to allow me to add a bevel edge on a cut paver to match the pre-bevelled edges.

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