# Forum Home Renovation Flooring  Epoxy Resin for knots & solvent/water based finish?

## JB1

Hi,  
I'm installing feature/utility grade spotted gum 
The private seller I'm getting it from advertised it as feature grade spotted gum, but I think it's probably closer to utility grade.  
Anyway I knew that before I purchased it, so purchased 15% extra for wastage. I don't mind the knots and it was very well priced.  
I need to fill in the knots and rather than use timbermate, I want to use a clear epoxy resin for the knots and black timbermate for the resin.  
I just hope the pack I get delivered is not below even utility grade  :No:  
Can someone recommend a clear epoxy resin?  
I will have at least a month or two between installing and polishing the floor, so I can fill up the holes with resin as many times as required.  The timber will be installed over plywood or yellowtongue.  
Also, the floor installer recommended I use 2 coats of polyurethane, and then a water based finish for the last coat. 
A good idea or not? Or should I just go the 3 coats of polyurethane? 
I prefer a satin finish that is hard wearing (who doesn't). The reason I don't want high gloss is that it doesn't age as well.

----------


## Random Username

Botecote - there's a clear version available.  Product Information Pages

----------


## Oldsaltoz

Almost all true epoxy resins have a slight brown tinge to them but almost clear.  
Epoxy resin will stick very well to timber, so much so that removing a section will often result the timber breaking rather than the epoxy. 
However, the timber MUST be dry. I put it out in the full sun for a couple of hours before treating, or use a heat gun. 
Caustion: Epoxy without a filler is very brittle and may break out, you will have to pre-drill before nailing. Muck better if you add a filler and stronger, Epoxy can also be tinted with common oxides in powder form. 
Acetone is the best cleaning agent, keep the old and dirty used Acetone in a sealed glass container (Jum Jar) and let the rubbish settle out then re-use the clean by slowly tipping into another jar. 
Never use an epoxy with the humidity above 73% or temperature below 20* C. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

----------


## TheHammer

Wait about one week before topcoating the epoxy with the poly. The epoxy takes about one week to complete its cure. Most finished will not stick to it during that time. Oil based finishes like varnish & poly remain tacky. They never really dry properly. 
You will be fine using straight resin and hardner. No need for filler. Make sure you stir it really well. Scrape the sides of the container when mixing.

----------


## JB1

Thanks for the advice, 
The floorboard timber place recommended West System 105 Resin, with a hardener (not sure which one).  
I also read about Bote Cote. Both West System and Bote Cote seem to do a similar job- that is fix boats.  
I haven't priced either products, however, to fill up holes and knots, which is a better product for my purpose- West System or Bote Cote? 
Better = able to pour in more epoxy per coat and ease of use for an amateur.  
The more epoxy I can use at one time and still cure hard, the easier it will be for me.  
The deepest holes will be the thickness of the floorboards, so say 14mm, plus any gaps in the plywood or yellow tongue.  
I will have at least 1 month between the floor being laid and polished/coated, however there may be tradies around, so I can afford to let it cure properly over Christmas.  
Oldsaltoz- I can't place the timber in the sun, I will have 115sqm worth! lol... However I will let the floorboards acclimatise for a few weeks before laying and epoxying so hopefully the moisture of the wood, if any won't affect it.   
A slight brown tinge is perfectly ok, I mean the floorboards is timber anyway.  
Thanks for the tips re: Acetone and curing temps. In Melbourne Dec shouldn't drop below 20 in the day or be excessively humid.

----------


## johnc

For a floor you will be quite happy with either Bote Coat or West expoxy both will end up the same, shouldn't need filler or colour for knot holes although sometimes I add colour to accentuate the knot. you can use any of the feast watson tints as well as oxides for colour tinting.

----------


## Random Username

Bonus points if you find a knot big enough to embed a toy-but-real-looking frog or lizard or insect in... 
On the 'which is better' topic: 
Personally I'd go for Botecote as it is supposed to be ever so slightly more flexible than West...and its also Australian, so you can do the salute the flag thing. 
You don't want to mix up too much of either at a time; the setting reaction is exothermic to the point where a large mix can actually start smoking.  This is, to put it mildly, not good.  It speeds up the setting rate and can happily melt through a plastic mixing cup (it can hit 350 degrees C).  Try to keep it to no more than 500ml total at a mix...even that could be pushing it depending on ambient temperature.  It's also harder to mix large quantities well.

----------


## TheHammer

Boat Cote should cost a little less. It is easier to use because it is a 2:1 resin/hardener ratio. The West System is a really old resin system. It is 4:1 and a pain to mix without the pumps. 
One more epoxy secret. Don't waste any money on mixing containers. The real ones are polypropylene(PP). Most of your foods come in PP as known as #5. I like to reuse my Vaalia yogurt containers. They are also my go to brushing cans for painting. None of the typical solvents will eat thru PP including acetone. 
So to mix epoxy quickly find a decent size container about 1 liter. Find a smaller container like a 100 or 200ml. Mix 2 parts resin to 1 part hardener(Boat Cote. The best thing for mixing resin are tongue depressors cut square on the end. They actually sell them at most decent marine stores.

----------


## JB1

Hopefully there will be no holes that big!! 
If holes go right through, I'm not sure if I sure keep it or cut off the timber. 
Bote Cote, if its as good, if not better, cheaper, easier to use and Aussie made, then the decision is easy. 
Now just have source it in Melbourne 
How thick a layer in mm do you think I can get away with each coat? 
I'll check what I have, but would milk bottles or tin cans be suitable to mix in?   
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------


## TheHammer

Never mix epoxy or fiberglass resin(polyester) in a metal can. Those chemical reactions all give off heat. The metal can will absorb the heat and make the reaction go off in a super fast time. The epoxy will actually start foaming. It is a big no no. Milk jugs are LDPE you can mix epoxy in them; however, they are kinda of soft and floppy. Stick with the PP as I suggested. All of the containers are marked. Look for #5 on the bottom. 
There is no thickness limitiation for epoxy. I would walk around coating all of the spots. Then go back and do another round immediately after wards. The first coat should soak in like water. 
West Systems is a good resin and has the best range of fillers in the industry. The problem is the resin is old school. All of the other newer systems are 2:1. 
Cheers

----------


## Random Username

Well...the thickness limit is mostly influenced by the "Hey...why's that knothole smoking" limit....followed closely by the "It cost me *HOW* much to fill that knot with 'poxy?????"

----------


## namtrak

For what its worth I install a lot of feature floors, and always fill with two runs of Ebony timbermate.  The first run is after a 40 grit sand and is a runnier mix = this seeps into all the little cracks and crevices, I then fill with a drier mix which levels the floor nicely.  For me, epoxy is too expensive and time consuming. 
I wouldn't bother with a water based coat over the top of the two solvent based coats.  Personally I would just use the water based product - the reason we use it is because it is non-toxic and non-yellowing.  If you use the two solvent based coats first then you are precluding the advantages of the water based finish.  As the toxicity will still be in the air and the floor will still yellow over time.

----------


## JB1

Epoxy for me isn't an issue time or expense wise. 
I'm still thinking of ebony for the veins. 
I'll see what I need to do when I open the pack when it's delivered this Sat. 
What is your preferred water based product and is it hard wearing? 
I'm going for a satin finish.  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------


## namtrak

Bona Traffic 
We put it down on Kings Hall in Old Parliament House and a year later theyre still pretty happy with it

----------


## JB1

Floor boards have been laid and I love the colour and grain/veins/knots. I'm ready to epoxy it with Bote Cote.       
The flooring guy recommends a heavy sand diagonally & with the grain before the kitchen is installed due to the boards being not 100% flat, and then a light sand + coating after the kitchen/painting etc is completed.  
You can see where the boards need to be filled with epoxy. Some of the timber edges are rounded, I guess the grade of the boards is lower than the advertised feature grade  :Frown:  
I read this issue this guy had -> http://www.renovateforum.com/f203/ed...boards-107870/ Now I'm worried if I use epoxy where the two boards meet (and epoxy is drawn between the tounge and the groove) the same thing will happen (cracked boards). 
The boards are 180x14mm spotted gum, installed over plywood, secret nailed with full troweled Bostick adhesive.  
Any risk of the boards cracking like the other guy if I continue to use epoxy where the boards meet?

----------


## JB1

Used Bote Coat and what a disaster!  
It didn't dry clear      
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------


## JB1

I'm going to try the west system. 
There isnt much I can do with the ones I've already done. Except try and fill it up with black timber mate. 
Very disappointing after all the research and preparation.  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------


## johnc

> I'm going to try the west system. 
> There isnt much I can do with the ones I've already done. Except try and fill it up with black timber mate. 
> Very disappointing after all the research and preparation.  
> Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

  Use a small amount of tint, the problem you have is the result of using the raw product in a large hole and levelling with a course paper its not really a problem, the opaque outcome is pretty much what you get, however it is also the sand paper. Get some fine 230 or 320 grit on what you have done though and give it a sand, even without the tint the outcome will be quite different. most of the opaque appearance will go as it is highlighted by the scratches of the course grit you have used. Once the clear finish is on it will be different again and almost not noticable.

----------


## JB1

Thanks John, 
The photo of above is the just the epoxy. 
I've yet to sand it, so I don't think it will make much difference. 
What brand tint and where can I get some?  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------


## johnc

I think you might be surprised once you sand it down, I use Feast Watson water based tints but you can also use powdered oxides. On the epoxy only, use a coarse paper to level then jump through something like 180, 240, 360 grit as you get finer the opaque look will diminish. I've used untinted epoxy in a floor we have just refinished after a kitchen reno there a few spots we added untinted epoxy in some places and few drops of tint in others and you can't pick it unless you know it's there. I didn't do the above we just knocked off the high spots with some coarse grit paper and the floor sander bloke did the rest. After sanding down you could put a few brush strokes of varnish or similar to see how it looks. It will all lift off when the floor is sanded properly of course so it is really just to find out how your patches will show.

----------


## JB1

I hope you're right as it looks terrible (opaque) rather than clear. 
I'm very disheartened at this point. 
Luckily my floor sander is doing a heavy sand first to get the floor flat and then come back after the kitchen is installed. 
If it still looks terrible after the heavy sand, I read you can soften epoxy with a heat gun. I'll scrape some off and then apply a black filler. 
I think black will look better than opaque. 
Has anyone else had this issue with Bote Cote?  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

----------

