# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Hand basin & toilet in one unit?

## woodchip

Gday,
Im wondering if anyone has any experience or opinions about the toilet suites that have a small hand basin, the tap for the basin starts once the toilet is flushed? 
We are wondering if they are a viable option, to save space & possibly money by not having to buy a small vanity unit to put in a small toilet. 
My concern is that any soap used to wash hands will end up clogging up the cistern & valves?? 
cheers

----------


## Bloss

I've not seen one of these in place yet Toilet Suites - Profile - Profile 5 Toilet Suite with Integrated Hand Basin . I guess if there is room only for a suite it's an OK compromise and the 'eco' dual water use is OK too I suppose. Can't say it really looks like a good idea to me - 'saving' 1-2L of water, unless you are on tank water (and even then?) it seems a lot of expense for tiny gain. 
A 'feel-good solution' that has little real impact - 'if its yellow let it mellow' as the saying goes would save more water given a flush only for solids or a half flush when two or more urinations have been made. Of course blokes should be getting the urea onto the nearest lemon tree . . .  :Biggrin:  
As to clogging - I don't know what sort of soap you plan on using, but it is a non issue I reckon. Any residue build up would be slow and little my guess is that the washers etc would need replacing due to age and wear before they had any impact from soap.

----------


## plum

Haven't installed any, but recently worked on one and wonder why bother with them. I certainly wouldn't be using soap with these, it seems only useful for rinsing hands with cold water only, I don't believe they are a viable option for replacing a vanity, a bit gimmicky.

----------


## BerryTree

A friend of mine has one of these units and to be honest I dont like using it. 
You have to wash your hands as the toilet flushes and to do that you have to lean over the toilet to reach the tap.  
Its a little off putting leaning over the bowl and watching bits swirling around while your wash your hands. 
Try as you might you cant help looking down!

----------


## shauck

> Its a little off putting leaning over the bowl and watching bits swirling around while your wash your hands.

  Breathing in all those tiny poo molecules.

----------


## BaysideNana

Hadn't thought about 'looking down'....ROFLMHO!!   but I was considering one of these prior to building this house and while they sound good in theory, I think it would be awkward to turn around and then reach the basin to wash your hands, specially for little kids...they might fall in!!   
One other thing which was a turnoff was that your hands would drip on the toilet lid so I gave it a big miss.  If you are pushed for space why not a corner basin, there are some nice ones available now (check eBay for starters) and imho, one of these would be more suitable.   
Just my 2 cents worth!!  :Shock:

----------


## Overkill

I have used one at a friend's place and have one about to be installed at home. They are a great idea in a tight space or where basin plumbing would be expensive or difficult. The only downside for me is the cold water. My friend has had their unit in for several years and has never had issues with using liquid soap.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

Why add a sink when there's a perfectly good bowl there already?  Just leave a soap dish on the cistern. Half flush to wet the hands for the soap and a full flush to rinse.  Easy. 
The other option (if you are too squeamish about the bowl idea) is one of these   
They work a treat!  You can even clean your boots with them.   :Blush7:

----------


## ajm

> Why add a sink when there's a perfectly good bowl there already? Just leave a soap dish on the cistern. Half flush to wet the hands for the soap and a full flush to rinse. Easy. 
> The other option (if you are too squeamish about the bowl idea) is one of these   
> They work a treat! You can even clean your boots with them.

  i thought the hose was for getting the shampoo out of my hair....

----------


## plum

These contraptions are in contravention to our plumbing laws in regard to backflow and cross contamination. Many of my Indian customers ask me to install these, but I disappoint them telling them 'no can do'.  :No:

----------


## Overkill

I'll take your word for it, but how does the back-flow occur?

----------


## plum

I think we've been through this a few times, but here goes. It takes a busted main in the street or even in your own property, and some nob using one these has left it in the bowl, and they have a faulty mini stop and bingo your bowl of contaminated water is sucked back out through the pipework and into the mains. 
It may take a few ifs and buts, but I wouldn't take the chance. Also these hoses and nozzles are made of cheap inferior quality materials, not designed for our mains pressure and  pose a major risk of bursting whilst no-one is around causing truckloads of damage.

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> These contraptions are in contravention to our plumbing laws in regard to backflow and cross contamination. Many of my Indian customers ask me to install these, but I disappoint them telling them 'no can do'.

  Only the cheap ones like the one that I suggested.   
There are quite a few that have backflow prevention devices in them...notably those targeted at the disabled community and their carers.  Here's one Australian Bidets Waterloo 
So there's no need to be a party pooooooper with your customers in the future  :No:

----------


## plum

Just another note on these hand held nozzles, they can be installed but must have an RPZ valve fitted at the nozzle and one at the meter, at over $600 for these 2 valves alone plus installation, I reckon I'll continue to be a party pooper.

----------


## METRIX

My 2c, I would prefer to wash my hands away from the poo pot, rather than over the top of it, might as well hook up a drinking fountain while your there. 
Basically I think those toilet / hand basin things look ugly.

----------


## voogan

> Just another note on these hand held nozzles, they can be installed but must have an RPZ valve fitted at the nozzle and one at the meter, at over $600 for these 2 valves alone plus installation, I reckon I'll continue to be a party pooper.

  And don't forget Plum being a registerable backflow device you have to get a plumber to test yearly ! (at least im my state anyways)

----------


## SilentButDeadly

> Just another note on these hand held nozzles, they can be installed but must have an RPZ valve fitted at the nozzle and one at the meter, at over $600 for these 2 valves alone plus installation, I reckon I'll continue to be a party pooper.

  OOoooooh  poo.    :Cry:   
Still funny as sh......t though!   :Wink 1:

----------


## paddyjoy

> I think we've been through this a few times, but here goes. It takes a busted main in the street or even in your own property, and some nob using one these has left it in the bowl, and they have a faulty mini stop and bingo your bowl of contaminated water is sucked back out through the pipework and into the mains. 
> It may take a few ifs and buts, but I wouldn't take the chance. Also these hoses and nozzles are made of cheap inferior quality materials, not designed for our mains pressure and  pose a major risk of bursting whilst no-one is around causing truckloads of damage.

  Might be a stupid question but why aren't water meters made with backflow prevention, would prevent this issue?

----------


## woodchip

Thanks everyone for the feedback, some good points made & ill look at getting a small basin/vanity & separate toilet. 
Had to briefly remove our water meter recently, & it is fitted with a backflow preventer (NSW).
cheers

----------


## METRIX

A little wall hung vanity similar to this one would do the job, and look a lot nicer.  ON SALES!!! V3025WH Bathroom Vanity 300*250*600mm | eBay

----------


## stevoh741

Another plus for the hand basin on top is when your drunk you could use it fir a urinal then no issues with the missus about leaving the seat up.

----------


## wonderplumb

> Might be a stupid question but why aren't water meters made with backflow prevention, would prevent this issue?

  They are, in the simplest form in the way of a loose jumper valve in the stop cock. The new ones that have been trotted out all over Sydney have a dual check valve in them (not to be confused with a double check valve).
In regards to the toilets, I've never installed on either nor have I seen one installed. Very gimmicky as plum said, not as popular as what Caroma were hoping.

----------


## GraemeCook

> Gday,
> Im wondering if anyone has any experience or opinions about the toilet suites that have a small hand basin, the tap for the basin starts once the toilet is flushed?

  I first saw these in Japan in the late 1960's where they were, and still are, very popular.   The very small amount of soap that goes into the cistern probably acts as a lubricant.   None of my Japanese friends have ever commented adversely on their reliability.   And the Japanese are far more fastidious re hygiene matters than most of us.... 
Fair Winds 
Graeme

----------


## METRIX

> Another plus for the hand basin on top is when your drunk you could use it fir a urinal then no issues with the missus about leaving the seat up.

   :Roflmao:

----------


## an3_bolt

The wc with the hand basin over the top of the cistern is actually popular in some overseas areas.....very common in Japan.....the clean freaks of the world. However I draw the line at the heated dunny seat - even in super sub zero temps- i just dislike that feeling of someone being there immediately before you :No:

----------


## Cure1973

I have installed one for my old man... He had another loo back to back with the one from his ensuite so simply no room to fit a basin. I actually think they are quite a good idea! Yes it's only cold water filling the cistern but really people how long does it take to wash your hands??!! I have fitted plenty of cloakroom type basins, some you would struggle to get one hand under the tap let alone two!
Pros are space and water saving cons are very expensive ! Caroma at least!

----------


## Uncle Bob

Just get a regular type cistern and leave the lid off. Problem solved  :Smilie:  
A few years back, a mate of mine was making and selling transparent cisterns as fish tanks. They were selling well into pubs and such till the SPCA got involved.

----------

