# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  DYI timber flooring questions

## kaoboy

My house in Seddon is getting concrete stumps installed in place of bluestones. Since the stumpers can't get access the subfloor (bluestones/joists) from outside of the house, they told us that we would have to remove the existing floorboard and we were also advised by the stumpers to replace the old Baltic pine floorboards w/ new floorboards because they are old and fragile. 
The stumpers suggested we call around and see if anyone would come and remove the old Baltic floorboards for us because they're in demand. I called around and it seems like no one is really interested in old Baltic floorboards that has already been stained and varnished. Since it will cost some money to have people come in to remove and dispose of the old Baltic boards, I thought perhaps I should just remove the boards myself and see if I find some in decent condition for some other use. Has anyone salvaged their own floorboards? Is it worth the effort? 
The stumper also recommended that we install yellow tongue on top of the joists before we install the new timber floors. My questions is regarding yellow tongue. I found out that it is 'weather proof' particle board that can protect the timber strips from moisture. What is the life expectancy of yellow tongue? My naive impression of particle boards is that they don't last very long, but is yellow tongue the way to go? What's the best way to install the yellow tongue? Nails or screws?

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## David.Elliott

My reclaim of the boards was a no brainer and easy they were around 8-10 inches wide and 1 inch thick Jarrah with no T&G. Averaged 3mt long. I believe the effort in getting your boards off would be worthwhile. I did have a neighbour make me a board lifter so I could support the whole width of the board when levering. Something like that, that will tilt a few boards at once to try to avoid splitting the tongue and groves off..would be worthwhile...they are probably quite brittle so the time spent by a reclainer carefully getting them off may not have value for them, 
I used green tongue termite resistant particle board for the floor. These flooring specific particle boards are exactly the right thing to use.. I, in my usual overkill scenario, did run foil under the floor. It's an 1860s 4 room cottage, lived in by an older lady, so every little thing I can do on the insulate side is being done. Probably $60 in foil, will also keep some damp out I hope, so good value.
I have built a new subfloor of 90 x 45s treated too, I had to use joist hangers, the original bearers were a bit all over the place...
I then screwed the board down as per the instructions (150mm?)with treated pine screws. Remember to overlap on a joist...and glue the edges.
I have 130 x 19 new jarrah T&G flooring which I am going to glue and secret nail down...

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## old1955

Welcome to the forum kayboy.

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## goldie1

Particle board flooring is commonly used and will outlast you or I. It is glued and nailed or screwed. 
Have a look here for the installation instructions. http://www.gunnersens.com.au/images/...tall_guide.pdf 
Now would also be a good time to look at underfloor insulation and any addition to power points etc. 
Check with any building recyclers in your area  for price on 2nd hand  Baltic to see if is worth salvaging.

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## johnc

What the others have said, plus there is a market for second hand Baltic flooring, the sister Woodwork Forums have a for sale section I think you would stand a good chance of flogging it off through there. Definitely look at insulating underneath, also the new chipboard will eliminate most draft except for skirting edges and that can also be sealed to provide an excellent draft barrier. There would also be nothing to stop you running them through a thicknesser and relaying over the chipboard and then refinishing. Overlay need only be 12-13mm thick and you would only need to take off a couple of mill max most likely to clean them up. It is a golden opportunity to improve household comfort and reduce heating bills.

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## ChocDog

Hi mate, 
Ok, a few of things for you:   We did exactly this; pulled up all our 150x22mm Baltic pine boards, installed underfloor insulation, yellow tongue and will very shortly be re-laying the BP boards (after the paint is finished). There is some more info in our GoToWhoa thread http://www.renovateforum.com/f176/fu...bourne-109097/Pulling them up is not easy if you plan to re-use them. You will damage more than you expect. Hairline cracks down the centres, split tongue/groove (ok as long as material is not removed from the visible surface), cupping, etc.Based on the amount of wastage during removal, I actually need to buy more (and we are re-laying less sqm than was originally there as their will be carpet in some rooms).2nd hand (OLD) Baltic pine boards are not cheap to buy. But good like trying to sell them for a reasonable value. I was at GHG Home - GHG Home & Building Recycling the other day and they want something like $10/lm for 150x22 (or more  cant remember). I said Id be better selling them mine at 50% rate and then buying hardwood. No deal. The will only offer $2/lm. You can pick them up for b/w $2-5/lm on ebay depending on quantity.Buy one of these Remove Floorboards The Easy Way - Ezy-Lifter. I welded up something similar, but it wasnt much chop. If I did it again, Id just buy one. I ended up using a combination of pry bars and sledges/club hammers to manipulate/start them. My back was very happy when the job was finished.As Goldie said YT is very durable. It cops abuse fine. Weve been living on it a lot longer than expected (about 9 months!) as we decided to finish all the renos before relaying the BP boards (as they are very soft, paint stains, etc).Youll spend about 1k for a standard 3 bed cal bung on YT.As we had, same as you, a cut-in install (as opposed to a new build with a platform install) we went with the 1800x900mm sheets. The 3600 sheets would have been a bugger to constantly manoeuvre around, but that said I would use them next time. None of our joists conform to standard spacing so I had to put in a lot of extra joists to give the sheets support at but joins. Could have cut them but preferred having more joists then YT wastage (i dont like springy floors).Best installation recommendation (and what we used) was Bostik Ultaset glue onto the joists, and then gun nailed down (50mm x 3mm IIRC). If its an old house and old hardwood joists dont even dream of hand nailing!Youll go through a fair number of Ultraset sausages.Again, best recommended BP install method (and what we will do), is full adhesive coverage (again Ultraset, in tubs, with 3mm notched trowel), followed by secret nailing. You could top nail, but considering how many existing holes are in our BP boards, I dont want any more so am going secret nail.This method will also chew through a hell of a lot of Ultraset. About 5 tubs. At $130/tub. Thats not your friend.   
So all things considered, its a lot of effort, and I think, not the best end result for that effort. I would have preferred to go with a new hardwood floor (spotted gum, messmate), but my partner-in-crime wanted (and I agree with why) the BP boards as its a great link to the original form of the home. If you want that original link to the building, then go down that path, but if not, Id recommend a hardwood. Looks nicer in my opinion and doesnt dent easily. Either way, Id still go underfloor insulation and YT. The YT give as much firmer feel to the floor and just the floorboards will. 
That should do you for the moment! 
BTW, what size are your Baltic pine? If you decide you dont want them and they are 150mm, let me know asap, as I need some more!

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## kaoboy

Thanks for everyone's feedback!  
Fyi - While I would like to salvage the old BP floorboards, I did not consider re-using them in the same rooms where they came from. I imagine it wouldn't be worth the trouble of replacing the salvageable pieces. We're planning to install new timber floorboards (lighter colored wood like BlackButt or American Oak).  
While reading the feedback, I thought of a few more questions: 
1. I'm having a heck of a time finding a suitable floorboard installer near me. I contact a few installer and they've either ignored my voicemail or emails or they never followed up w/ a quote when they said they would. It's been almost 2 weeks and I'm coming around to the idea that perhaps I should just install the hardwood floors myself... considering that I was going to install the yellow tongue over the joists anyway. Does anyone here have experience installing wider floorboards (180mm+) I really like the looks of wider boards, but I heard that wider boards are more susceptible to cupping which is why I thought I leave the installation to the experts. If you've installed your own boards, I'd love to hear about your experience. 
2. I spoke w/ an floorboard installer who told me that you need to glue the floorboards onto the yellow tongue as well as secret nailing them. Can someone explain to me why gluing is necessary? Would gluing the floorboards to the yellow tongue make it much harder to fix individual floorboards later? 
3. Underfloor insulation is a new concept for me. Sounds interesting, but does it really help that much? I was under the impression that heat goes up the ceiling and it makes much more sense to insulate the roof.  
ChocDog,
My BP are approx 150mm wide, but I don't know the depth because I have not pull them out yet. I have attached a couple of images. If you're still interested, I'll let you know the depth once I pull them out this weekend.

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## johnc

About three years ago we got under the house and fitted insulation, a PIA from below in a confined place. Our winter heating bills have dropped by a third and i would estimate the payback period to be about four years. We also plugged a few gaps at the same time. 
You do need to glue overlay (solid timber) to the chipboard not the least to reduce movement and the resultant squeeks. We had existing pine floor boards and installed 12mm over lay hardwood above that, it was when the product first became available and we used a PVA product to glue the floor down, I'm not sure if Ultraset was even around then and if it was we hadn't heard of it, we have been lucky and had no problems with the method, however your plan of attack would be to lay the chipboard floor then fix the timber flooring using Ultraset (or similar) and secret nails, the nails probably don't do that much once the glue dries. If you used parquetry you would simply use Ultraset and lay the parquetry without any additional fixings. We have a second property with the parquetry finish in all rooms other than the bathroom it looks quite nice and is easier to repair when your bathroom waterproofing fails. :Frown:

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## ChocDog

> Thanks for everyone's feedback!   
> ChocDog,
> My BP are approx 150mm wide, but I don't know the depth because I have not pull them out yet. I have attached a couple of images. If you're still interested, I'll let you know the depth once I pull them out this weekend.

  
Absolutely, would definitely be interested in that. Let me know once you suss out the depth.  
Re: installers. I'm not sure if Dusty on here (a very highly regarded sander/polisher + contributes great info on here and who I want to use ) does installs. But might be worth a try. He's more bayside in location as opposed to North side though. If nothing else I am sure he can recommend someone. 
His website is: Clint Fudge: Floor Sanding & Polishing. There is some great info/photos on it.  
The other people, especially in consideration of suppliers of hardwood, to consider would be Connollys in Coburg. They sell/install etc and have a large amount of finished flooring on display. Not sure how 'competitive' their pricing is. I would definitely recommend a wander around their showroom. They have posted on here a few times, dont know how active they are though.  Timber flooring and Decking Melbourne Engineered Floors Parquetry  
Would you consider installing yourself (and then get sanding and polishing performed by a pro)? Might be an option. If you do, I have a Bostitch secret nailer that I would gladly loan out in exchange for some BP boards if you're interested.

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## kaoboy

I just went to my wife's friend's house recently and he sourced and installed his own Spotted Gum flooring which looked fantastic. Sorta makes me want to do it myself. Admittedly, this guy is carpenter by trade, so it's not surprising. After a lot of research, I get the impression the installing floors may not be as hard as I thought. Aside from knowing important details like leaving gaps around the corners of the room and giving time for the timber floor to acclimatize the surrounding moisture level, installing the floors seems pretty straight forward whereas sanding w/ professional sanders requires more skills and experience. I went to Connolly's showroom a week ago and they seem pretty knowledgeable about their floors. At this point, I'm still evaluating my options. 
At this point, my biggest concern involves in the notion of "feature" grade. My wife like the idea of "feature" grade and we saw some Blackbutt "feature" that we great in one showroom and terrible in another.  
Fyi - I got my boards pulled out and sent you a message. Feel free to get in touch if you would like to check out my Baltic Pines.      

> Absolutely, would definitely be interested in that. Let me know once you suss out the depth.  
> Re: installers. I'm not sure if Dusty on here (a very highly regarded sander/polisher + contributes great info on here and who I want to use ) does installs. But might be worth a try. He's more bayside in location as opposed to North side though. If nothing else I am sure he can recommend someone. 
> His website is: Clint Fudge: Floor Sanding & Polishing. There is some great info/photos on it.  
> The other people, especially in consideration of suppliers of hardwood, to consider would be Connollys in Coburg. They sell/install etc and have a large amount of finished flooring on display. Not sure how 'competitive' their pricing is. I would definitely recommend a wander around their showroom. They have posted on here a few times, dont know how active they are though.  Timber flooring and Decking Melbourne Engineered Floors Parquetry  
> Would you consider installing yourself (and then get sanding and polishing performed by a pro)? Might be an option. If you do, I have a Bostitch secret nailer that I would gladly loan out in exchange for some BP boards if you're interested.

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