# Forum Home Renovation Flooring  Direct stick flooring...

## jamc0984

Hi all, new to the forums so go easy. 
I have read through many posts, but i have found it hard to find a definitive answer on the subject. I plan on laying some solid oak pre-finished timber flooring (not engineered stuff, but solid oak from top to bottom) in a townhouse living area which happens to be the second floor, so it is a suspended slab using the direct stick method. I plan to use Selley's direct stick or maybe the Sika equiv. Im not fussed, just what even i can get my hands on, they all seem to do the same job. 
The building was built 1975 so i assume the moisture content of the slab would be non existent? My question is, do i need to spread a waterproofer or vapor barrier first? Instructions with flooring do not indicate so, but i am unsure. 
Before we all suggest other methods, i dont have the ceiling height to use bearers nor plywood so those options are out. 
If it turns out i need to do this barrier, is there an adhesive product that is both an adhesive and moisture barrier which can be applied in one whilst sticking to flooring down. 
Thanks in advance, any help would be great. 
James

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## glock40sw

Go with Selleys direct stick flooring adhesive and use their VBS.

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## Dusty

> Go with Selleys direct stick flooring adhesive and use their VBS.

   :Repplus:

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## jamc0984

Ok, well as i said i had planned to use selley's. Was just debating the VBS. Has anyone layed timber floors on a suspended slab without a moisture barrier successfully?? I did notice on the boral timber flooring site installation guide that they recommend to use one only if the slab is not suspended...

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## glock40sw

So...do suspended slabs have water pipes set into the slab? 
Some do. If the pipe leaks, were does the water go? Into the slab and then into the timber flooring. 
The VBS is a cheap insurance policy for you new floor.
Why try and cheapskate the installation? 
It is better to use it and not need it that the other way round.

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## jamc0984

I do agree with why cheapskate. Its nothing about the price, its more a time issue then anything. Although i do think if my pipes are leaking in my slab ill have more serious issues then slab water content... i am just getting confused about all the different instructions out there, particularly from the big manufacturers. Is the selley's range something most hardwares can special order, or does anyone know off hand of a retailer that would keep this stuff in stock? I havent come accross it anywhere yet. Bunnings is too unrealiable to keep ANYTHING stocked.

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## Gaza

you need to buy it from a flooring trade depo.

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## glock40sw

There is a mob in Brisbane/Gold Coast called "Flooring Supplies" or "Floor Sandimg Supplies"  Check out the yellow pages.
Or give Timber Queensland a call in the Valley 0733581868. Don will know where to get it.

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## timdavis@activ8

I've been laying and sanding timber floors for over 20 years. I have seen MANY seriouse problems arise from direct stick to concrete, suspended and ground floor. Consequently professionally I won't do them. Too risky and in my opinion not a good system. Timber and concrete have very different expansion co-efficients:they move differently. If you insist, consider laying battens first (only raises floor about 30mm), or else contact Bostick, once again only my opinion (but I've been around a while and seen thousands of floors),  they make very high quality adhesives and moisture barriers. Compatable moisture content of timber,concrete and environment are CRUCIAL for success or failure (cupping, crowning, lifting). Most professional layers and carpenters I know use these products.

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## glock40sw

> I've been laying and sanding timber floors for over 20 years. I have seen MANY seriouse problems arise from direct stick to concrete, suspended and ground floor. Consequently professionally I won't do them. Too risky and in my opinion not a good system. Timber and concrete have very different expansion co-efficients:they move differently. If you insist, consider laying battens first (only raises floor about 30mm), or else contact Bostick, once again only my opinion (but I've been around a while and seen thousands of floors), they make very high quality adhesives and moisture barriers. Compatable moisture content of timber,concrete and environment are CRUCIAL for success or failure (cupping, crowning, lifting). Most professional layers and carpenters I know use these products.

  G'day.
For 19mm T&G over Y/T or ply or battens or joists, then, Yes, Bostik Ultraset adhesive. For 14mm or 19mm Parquetry, Yes Ultraset again. 
But for 12mm overlay direct stick to concrete, then only Selleys Directstick adhesive with VBS slab seal is the product to be used. I have spent a lot of time over in the West doing research on direct stick installations, where Direct stick is the prefered installation.  I came back and modified our profile and final moisture content limits for better allround installation.For all our 12mm production, I recommend Selleys Direct stick flooring adhesive with VBS to all our customers.

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## marz1

HI im in the preocess of doing the same thing at home, pulled out all carpet and i mputting in blackbutt 12mm overlay.
I will be sealing the concrete. 
My dilema is what s the difference between the three brands of sealer and glue. ie Selleys, Sika, and Bostik?
Why do you recommend one over the other? 
Is it a better method to seal concrete, lay down 15mm plywood and glue the floorboards to the ply?  
Another thing is im also replacing the tiles in lounge and living areas, it seams to be some sort of motar that was laid over the concret and tiles where glued on that.
Would it be best to remove it or remove tiles and glue then seal it and glue floorboards? 
Some advice would be really helpful  
CHeers MArz

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## glock40sw

G'day.
For timber direct to concrete, go with selleys.
For timber to ply or Yellow tongue, go with Ultraset. 
ply over concrete and timber glued and nailed to ply is probably the best installation method there is.

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## marz1

Thanks for that trevor. 
My other dilema is im removing tiles in tiled area and there is a 20mm motar underneath with tile adhesive on top. some of its breaks off with the tiles but most of it is stuck to the slab. 
Whats the best way of sealing the surface, because its rough and i dont know if the moisture barrier will work on rough surface.
If i smoothed it out with a self levelling mix like ardex or cement sand mixture how long should i wait before sealing and insalling the floor?
it will on be to fill some some larger areas that have come lose nea the skirting.
Im planning to use nail ply over these areas becasue its not toaaly flat for laying the floorboards directly. 
Cheers Marz

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## glock40sw

The tile bed stuff is a bit out on my league.
You would be better off asking Dusty or Gaza.
They do this stuff for a living. :2thumbsup: 
I only make the stuff... :Biggrin:

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