# Forum Home Renovation The Garden Shed  Erecting a steel garage in Canberra, help with the regs and such.

## Uncle Bob

Giday chaps. I hope everyone had a fab Chrissy and New Year! 
I'm in the planning stages of erecting a garage out the back of my place in Conder Canberra. 
The garage I hope to put up with be a single with a workshop/sleepout at the side or rear. 
I'll have a few questions as I go along, but I'll start with a couple (hopefully Bloss will read this  :Smilie:  ) 
Looking at ACT Planning and Land Authority - Garages, sheds and gazebos it appears that I can build it up against the fence line. This surprised me, I thought there would have to be some sort of setback. If this is the case, it's great, though I would leave enough space to be able to get to the fence for maintenance or replacement.  
Is this correct? Also, it looks like I don't need a permit or anything to build is, that's correct to eh? 
The back of my property has an easement with sewer etc under it, what's the clearance needed for this? 
Thanks in advance Bob!

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## Bloss

If it is under relevant area allowed for your block size as shown on that page and you are clear of all easements you should be OK. For info on easements see here: Design compliance - step 6 ActewAGL building requirements | Products & Services | ActewAGL. 
It really is worth getting any shed plans as you propose to site on your block checked over by a certifier (for the ACT list see here: http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/...Certifiers.pdf)  They will charge a couple of hundred bucks - some charge less and won't charge at all if you do it over the counter and it's a simple Class 10 advice (but of course that'll be a nod over the counter not anything you can rely on in any dispute with authorities!). The 1st on the alphabetical list are not the cheapest, but have been around for a while, but all are licensed. 
If you use a kit from a local supplier they'll provide all the info you need - but again it's your responsibility not their's unless they get any approvals - or give you something in writing that it would be exempt - normally this is part of any installation service. IMO it's better to get them to install for most people - then you can do the fitout after. 
BTW - a common little trick on sheds which appear cheaper is to use wall panels on the roof rather than corrugated or a heavier gauge roofing panel with the same profile as the walls. This is OK and can still be compliant, but harder to install for a DIYer - and any step off the purlin line will kink the sheet! The same care has to be taken after erection too. Also take the insulation option - plain sisalation foil or bubble foil or blanket if you wish. In ACT this will help keep it a little cooler, but more importantly stop winter condensation. 
And whatever use you might put it to after construction do not mention 'sleep-out' again . . .  :Wink:  any hint of it being a habitable area will make any bureaucrat twitchy!

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## Uncle Bob

Good on ya Bloss, I knew you would come up trumps  :Wink: 
Actually my plan is, and I possibly should have mentioned it, is, to make a neighbour and offer on a shed with an office that he said was for sale for a couple of grand a few years back. It's dismantled and still sitting in his back yard with grass growing over/around it. 
One thing though is it might be difficult to figure out the slab dimensions needed. 
So Bloss, do I need permits for this garage (not sleepout  :Wink:  )? 
Thanks again Bob

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## Bloss

Ah - read my signature block:   :Redface:  I was trying to have a Bob each way (geddit!  :Smilie: and not give a straight answer - and still won't. If the floor area of the shed is under the maximum allowed for your block size (so <500m2 you can have 10m2 (~3mx3m), 500-500m2 block you can have up to 25m2 (~4mx6m) and over 600m2 blocks can have up to 50m2 - all without needing DA or building approval so long as it meets the other criteria. That means 1st step is to know what your block size is, 2nd to know what size your neighbour's shed is and see if it fits into those limits. If so then you need to know that you can place it on the block without infringing any of the set-back & easement conditions. 
If those are OK then you can do what you propose. 
A word of gentle advice:
a) that bloke's shed is worth 3/5 of 5/8 of FA - he should allow you to take it away (if you are actually able to re-use it) or accept a nominal amount of a few hundred; and
b) Unless he has marked each sheet and each framing component as he dismantled it (and assuming all bits are still there) it is going to be an unpleasant jigsaw puzzle to erect - not impossible and maybe you like that sort of thing 
But it could be a bargain - working out the slab area will be problematic unless you know the original dimensions, but depending on the design (if it's an older Canberra steel shed it'll be a very simply few trusses, with angle or RHS posts, some strapping for bracing (sometimes none, relying on the sheet fixing) and timber girts (walls) and purlins (roof). These were often part assembled with the uprights set into holes and concreted in then a slab poured in situ using the uprights to hold the formwork, or using the steel sheeted wall as the formwork (depending on the intended height. 
Some laying out in your yard should help to work out the area. If you can find out the maker you can often get plans - only a few local ones in the 70s-80s eg: Weathershield were one and WR Engineering another.

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## The Roofer

Uncle Bob, 
Bloss - quoted  *    
			
				"that bloke's shed is worth 3/5 of 5/8 of FA"
			
		  * I agree totally! 
You'll need a lot of info to get this shed through engineering! How old is it?

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## Uncle Bob

The block is 850m2.
All good points on the assembly and the lack of instructions. 
Honestly, I haven't spoken with the guy for ages but the last time I did he said it was designed as an office workshop thing, which he used to work out of.
I'll pop over and knock with two elbows in the weekend and see if he has the plans or any other info.   

> You'll need a lot of info to get this shed through engineering! How old is it?

  Sorry The Roofer, what do you mean? From what Bloss said, it sounds like I shouldn't need to get permits etc. 
Cheers guys.

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## Bloss

I reckon Roofer is assuming a council like approval as in SE Qld. If you did need to get approval then he's right the you'd need to find actual plans and do a site plan etc or pay someone to do up engineering drawings and certify it - simply would not be worth it. The reason steel sheds are a good choice is that the manufacturer has all the engineering design and certification done for each design and and whomever does the job (installer of home owner with appropriate OB license) submits those to the approval authority. 
It does raise an issue for you about insurance - a low risk, but real - you might meet all the requirements of size and siting etc with this shed for not needing a DA or building approval, but even so the structure must still meet the BCA requirements. The issue is how do you prove that it does? Not an issue so much for you just using it, but should any event happen which saw you head to an insurer might be some problems. The sale of your property can sometimes be a worry with unapproved structures (even if exempt!), but thats managed easily enough - the contract simply offers the whole place as is, or you just knock it down and leave the slab! 
I've said on other posts - these apparent bargains can quickly become nightmares in my experience. I have been involved in a few shed removals with dismantling, marking and re-assembling and they have never been as simple as planned. When that middle step of marking is missing I sense a difficult project. You'll have to pay for the slab anyway. I'd be working out what size I actually want and then doing some google research to see what my options are for a fully erected one - this is a very competitive market and the prices are pretty low IMO.

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## Uncle Bob

> It does raise an issue for you about insurance - a low risk, but real - you might meet all the requirements of size and siting etc with this shed for not needing a DA or building approval, but even so the structure must still meet the BCA requirements. The issue is how do you prove that it does? Not an issue so much for you just using it, but should any event happen which saw you head to an insurer might be some problems. The sale of your property can sometimes be a worry with unapproved structures (even if exempt!), but thats managed easily enough - the contract simply offers the whole place as is, or you just knock it down and leave the slab!

  Yup, Good point.   

> I've said on other posts - these apparent bargains can quickly become  nightmares in my experience. I have been involved in a few shed removals  with dismantling, marking and re-assembling and they have never been as  simple as planned. When that middle step of marking is missing I sense a  difficult project.

  I have first hand knowledge of this. Got a free garden shed and managed to re-erect it inside out lol.   

> I'd be  working out what size I actually want and then doing some google  research to see what my options are for a fully erected one - this is a  very competitive market and the prices are pretty low IMO.

  I the ones I can actually find pricing for online seem to be at the $5K mark, without slab etc, so I'd love to see some "low prices"  :Wink:  
Thanks again Bloss (really I think your handle should be Super Bloss  :Biggrin:  ) 
Edit: Back to my fruitless online searching.

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## Bloss

"Super Bloss"   :Redface:  Just tryin' my best . . .  
So long as you have eyes wide open, and plenty of time and patience, your 2nd hand shed should be fine. I have too little time and less patience . . .  :Wink:

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## shauck

> If the floor area of the shed is under the maximum allowed for your block size (so <500m2 you can have 10m2 (~3mx3m), 500-500m2 block you can have up to 25m2 (~4mx6m) and over 600m2 blocks can have up to 50m2 - all without needing DA or building approval so long as it meets the other criteria. That means 1st step is to know what your block size is

  Hey Bloss. (Praying for an affirmative answer here.) Does that apply in Vic or is it just Canberra?  I've never heard of different allowances before. I'm on half acre and would love to build a "shed" bigger than 10m2.

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## Master Splinter

Planning regs are pretty much at the whim of the local council - you'd need to check with whoever your local authority is

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## Bloss

> Planning regs are pretty much at the whim of the local council - you'd need to check with whoever your local authority is

   :What he said:  Su - I know the ACT well, a little in NSW and bugger all about Vic or others. the BCA deals with Class 10 structures to facilitate the sort of lower requirements for sheds and decks and such like and some approving authorities have taken that approach. But I was quoting in reference to the ACT only (from the docs I linked to above) because that's where "Uncle Bob'' hails from (as do I). 
Note that this is about Planning & Building regs - so in the ACT there are a series of criteria and so long as you fit within them you are exempt from applying for development approval ie: Planning, and for Building approval. As I said above - the structures must still be built to the BCA. 
So - look at your council website first - most nowadays have guides and info sheets which make it pretty clear what, if anything, you can do without submitting to council. Sometimes you need to make an application for a permit to do work (ie: really a tax!), but in fact need no plans, but you just have to find out for your specific location.

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## The Roofer

I was assuming QLD regs Bloss - but check out SEPP regs in NSW - every likelyhood that ACT have adopted these also - very good spreadsheet to follow if you are building a shed!   SPREADSHEET for Sheds in NSW! May help!

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## shauck

I've searched through the building regulations which was via a link on local council website. Could only find reference to 10m2 or under, of course with other criteria, under 3.6m height, only on block with other class building, etc, etc. Wish it was just a bit bigger.

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## Bloss

The 10m2 is the garden shed stuff for which you need nothing at all re approvals - basically because if there are any issues it can be knocked down. But BCA Class10 allows for much broader range of structures. The aim for some years has been to national 'harmonisation' using the model code, but although States & Territories have all signed up it is taking some time to filter down to local governments. ACT is faster in this as it has a single Territory/local government structure (so does NT mostly).

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## Uncle Bob

Another question if I may (Bloss  :Smilie:  )? 
May I pour a slab over the stormwater and sewage pipes that run between my house and the stormwater and sewage mains easement? The shed would still be a metre or so from the easement. I can PM plans for inspection  :Smilie: 
I ask because if it's ok, then it I can move the shed closer to the boundary which will not take up so much of my lawns. 
BTW, Looks like I'm going with a new shed from Tumut River Sheds (they had the best price and seem friendly and helpful  :Wink:  ) Tumut River Sheds

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## Bloss

For home owners - Building and renovation near utility assets | Products & Services | ActewAGL

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## Uncle Bob

Thanks again Bloss.
I had actually taken a peek at that doc. It's clear that precautions have to be taken when working over or around the easement, what's not clear if is it permitted to build over the pipes running between the easement and the house. I'd take a punt and think it is ok, as, after all, slabs normally contain piped services.

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## Bloss

Main thing is too be sure of where they run so that if the worst happens you can get access - even if you need to cut the slab to do it! On some occasions I have identified where there are IO trap and had my plumber bring a riser to the top of the slab level with a screw top access cap. That way an eel or whatever can be put down easily. But that's not usually needed as there will be a trap or IO adjacent to the house and others every 3m or so along the line.

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## Uncle Bob

Cheers Bloss, good points again. 
According to the crappy copy of the plans I have (came with the Building inspection report when I brought the joint) the location is clear of the sewer line but the slab will probably go over over the storm water. I can't see any IO's for the stormwater pipe on the plan, do they normally have 'em?

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## Bloss

Nah pipes for stormwater in the ACT will some times run to open sumps with grates (not often - again depends on the block), and are usually only 600mm down. Depending on age they will be terracotta or concrete only 600mm lengths and commonly with simply with rebated joins - no rings or other seals so tree and plant roots are often a problem.For the last 30 years or so they have been 90mm or 100mm (or both sizes) UVPC and they don't get blocked so much, but can have cracks that were there when laid or from movement due to heavy trucks or someone digging and not realising they've hit a pipe.

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