# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Shower leaking - skirting board full of mold

## alive

Hi guys, 
I was looking at my shower and notice paint bubbling above the skirting board. The skirting board was coming adrift so I gave it a tub and it came right off! This house is about 8 years old, I've had it for about a year. It doesn't seem to have much in the way of water proofing. 
Moisture is behind, paper is peeling off the plaster board. NFI extent of the water damage, but it seems to be pretty local to this corner (it hasn't reached the door). Here is the corner closest to the shower with skirting board removed:   
I started to have a look inside the shower. The silicone in between the tiles and the shower base seemed suspect. On pressing it, water seemed to squeeze out from the shower base side. I've tried to cut back some of the silicone (I presume at the very least, I'll need to replace this):   
I'm guessing that the water is getting under the silicone and running along the shower base and down to this corner. It then gets into the MDF skirting board and plaster board. Mold and other yummy stuff grow. 
Is my guess likely to be correct? 
What is the likely course of action? Should I replace the silicone and see if this fixes the leak (after letting it all dry out). 
What is the easiest way to remove silicone? Currently I'm sliding a blade along both edges and then trying to pull it out. 
Any other advice? 
My real concern is moisture rotting the timber frame. Other than that, I'm not sure if I'm ready to replace the bathroom. 
Cheers.

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## Oldsaltoz

Questions: 
1 / Is that a gap at the base of the shower tray?
This type of base often has problems with the waste pipe developing a leak, so if that is a gap it would be an exit for the water from a leaking waste. 
2 / Is the shower head and tap/s on the same wall as the leak, it may a plumbing problem, you can plug off the shower outlet and turn both taps on for 20 minutes and check if any water dripping. 
3 / To test if the seal along the edge has failed, block the waste with some cling wrap and fill the shower with a hose from outside to the point the water laps the seal, then check for leaks, do not fill with the shoer tap as the leak may come from the plumbing, using water from anothe location will eliminate this. 
As you say, no sign of any waterproofing, it should have a flashing along the wall and out into the floor at least 80 mm high and wide. 
Perhaps this also demonstrates why I prefer Villaboard in bathrooms and other wet areas, some prefer it because it shows leaks before timber frames decay. 
Good luck and let us all know your findings. :Smilie:

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## ringtail

Any chance of a wider photo to give some perspective.

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## alive

> Any chance of a wider photo to give some perspective.

  Will do tonight.

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## alive

> Questions: 
> 1 / Is that a gap at the base of the shower tray?
> This type of base often has problems with the waste pipe developing a leak, so if that is a gap it would be an exit for the water from a leaking waste.I don't think so. I did find a drip from the top of the base. I'll have a look down the drain though  
> 2 / Is the shower head and tap/s on the same wall as the leak, it may a plumbing problem, you can plug off the shower outlet and turn both taps on for 20 minutes and check if any water dripping.Good idea. Will do.  
> 3 / To test if the seal along the edge has failed, block the waste with some cling wrap and fill the shower with a hose from outside to the point the water laps the seal, then check for leaks, do not fill with the shoer tap as the leak may come from the plumbing, using water from anothe location will eliminate this.Another good idea. Unfortunately I've already pulled some silicone out. I think I'll redo all the silicone and test this. 
> As you say, no sign of any waterproofing, it should have a flashing along the wall and out into the floor at least 80 mm high and wide.Should, but doesn't seem to (seems standard plaster board to floor gap hidden by skirting board). Do I have any recourse from a 2003 build?  
> Perhaps this also demonstrates why I prefer Villaboard in bathrooms and other wet areas, some prefer it because it shows leaks before timber frames decay.You've confused me. Does Villaboard show leaks earlier or does plasterboard?  
> Good luck and let us all know your findings.

  Thanks

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## johnc

Oldsaltz has told you what you need to do to locate the source of the problem, I would just add that your first hunch is unlikely to be right, those bases have a lip that the sheet overlaps and it should not be possible to leak at the top of the shower base. Water could be passing between the screen and door but extremely unlikely. It is more likely to be either a plumbing or waterproofing failure but I would start at those advised checks and if that doesn't work then it only leaves water penetrating behind the wall sheet or joins somewhere. The timber frame still appears in good order (not black with rot) so it is possible the leak is not that old.

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## alive

Thanks johnc. I did find water up near the top of the base. This may have wicked up through the MDF skirting, but it was more than just damp (if you know what I mean). I'll have a another poke at the top of the base, but it felt like my knife could go a good 10mm without resistance. I'll double check for a lip. 
Oldsaltz, thanks for the info. I'll double check the plumbing. I don't think the waste is the problem, so I'll double check this. I've already pulled some of the silicone around the base out, so if no problem with the plumbing, I'll replace and test this.
Re the Villaboard. Did you mean that leaks were easier to spot with Villaboard or plasterboard? Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

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## r3nov8or

There's a bunch of suggestions for a similar issue here > http://www.renovateforum.com/f205/le...-please-96608/

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## johnc

Villa board is better because water will not destroy it and your tiles will not fall off the wall, or, 
Plasterboard is better because your tiles will fall off the wall and the sheet will collapse, however you will discover the damage before the timber begins to rot and can fix it earlier. 
I prefer Villaboard FWIW.

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## alive

some more photos:    
This one is of the other corner. It is ok, but shows signs of some moisture damage.  
Close up of the base (from the hole in the plaster).  
When I took the shower head off, I did see the waterproofing through the tiles (blue membrane). No sign of water damage from the shower head. I'll get a hot air gun onto it tomorrow and test for leaks. 
Cheers all.

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## alive

Ok, 
I couldn't find a plumbing leak. 
I've noticed that my other shower also has a similar problem (not as developed, but will need to fix both). On the close up photo I took, a crack along the grout and plaster is visible. On my other shower, water is coming form a similar crack. 
I believe this means that water is getting behind the tiles. The pluming is good. The tap penetrations have allot of silicone and no evident moisture ingress (no mold or damp stains on clear silicone). I'm now guessing that the water is getting through the grout. 
I don't have the time to renovate both bathrooms at the moment. I intend to replace existing silicon and use Crommelin Shower Sealer on the grout. Is this likely to solve the leak (if it is grout based) over the short term (say 2 - 5 years), before renovating bathroom. 
I stumbled across this link here. Does this sound about right? 
For background info, what is the right grout to use and how does one avoid it leaking? As I understand the wall sheeting comes over the lip of the shower base. A waterproof membrane is applied, then tiling. The gap between the shower base and tiles is sealed with silicone. Therefore, if water gets behind the tiles where does it go and how is it stopped going where mine has gone? 
Cheers.

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## r3nov8or

Have you also checked every tile for hairline cracks? The grout sealer looks interesting and worth a try. You will really only know once you've tried.

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## johnc

What are the internal corners (upright) of the shower sealed with. It should be a flexible sealer (coloured silicone) and if not there is a possibility the leak is originating on that join. Water behind the tiles should go downwards and outwards, but there shouldn't be much that can get behind anyway. A cracked tile maybe, but a leaking 90 degree corner is a bigger possibility. There is no water getting past the join where the shower screen meets the tiles?

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## Oldsaltoz

That crack looks to be behind the tile and may be the result of wet timber frame swelling when wet. 
As for the grout sealer, I would see it as very temporary repair and would only work if the prep and application was done under the best conditions. 
If you suspect the grout is the cause of your problem, consider removing the top of the old grout and replacing it with an epoxy grout. 
Also keep in mind that water getting through grout is likely to form damp spots but no leaks and the quantity in small, around the base the existing waterproofing should prevent any leaks, unless it's failed. 
Good luck. :Smilie:

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## alive

> What are the internal corners (upright) of the shower sealed with. It should be a flexible sealer (coloured silicone) and if not there is a possibility the leak is originating on that join. Water behind the tiles should go downwards and outwards, but there shouldn't be much that can get behind anyway. A cracked tile maybe, but a leaking 90 degree corner is a bigger possibility. There is no water getting past the join where the shower screen meets the tiles?

  Yeah the internal corners are sealed with coloured silicone. 
So I flooded the base in the 'better' bathroom. It leaked both sides when the water lapped up just above the tile and glass to base area. I had a two year old 'helping' so I'm not perfect in observations. Anyway, a few more photos: 
The first is from the non wall corner. You can see the damp on the grout on the floor tiles. I put a tile down when it started to over flow:   
The second photo is of the inside of the non wall corner. I can't quite remember the leak path, but I think it was from under the glass (which has no silicone on the outside (should I run a bead of silicon here?). On the first photo there is a blob of silicone at the end of the channel, but I think the water level went over this.    
The third photo is of the inside of the wall corner that is leaking. Water leaked pretty quickly when the level went above the tile/base seal. I really don't know where this leaked from. In my mind it is either the tile to wall seal, or coming from under the shower frame. There is no silicone on the inside of the shower door frame. Is this normal? There is some sealing on the outside (see last photo).   
Last photo. Leaking corner shower/wall corner. External silicone bead doesn't look like it has 100% integrity. 
Thanks for all the help so far. Is there an installation guide somewhere for a framed shower with pre moulded base?

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## Oldsaltoz

This type of shower is normally sealed all round on the inside only, perhaps you should remove all the old sealant on the inside and reseal. 
The water through the tile grout would have come from under the shower base I suspect. 
By re sealing right around the base you will at least eliminate one possibility. 
Good luck. :Smilie:

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## r3nov8or

I was told by an 'old hand' at shower screen installs that you should only seal a shower screen on the outside. The logic was to do with always allowing the water a way to flow back in from under the screen frame etc. i.e. if you seal on the inside, and somewhere along the way water can get 'outside' the seal, it needs a way of getting back in or it will flood to the outside.

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## alive

r3nov8or, that's what the installation datasheets also seem to say. 
Well I had some success. using Henkel brand sticky tape (I think $3 for five rolls at the supermarket) I taped across the silicone joints and the corner member of the shower frame. This had an immediate effect and only a few drops got out. Now obviously this will provide the long term waterproofing similar to a colander, but was a good proof of concept. 
I will be squirting as much silicone as I can from the out side. I suspect that not enough silicone was applied before the tiles. Hopefully I can get a small nozzle and get enough silicone behind the tiles. 
Thanks for all the help so far. I've learnt a lot.

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## Compleat Amateu

What a bloody dog's beakfast in what is a relatively new build.  When did bathroom sealing warranties come in in Victoria?  In NSW they became mandatory about 6 (?) years ago, so you may be covered for this. 
In cas eit isn't obvious, you should really leave this alone to dry out before going berserk with tubes full of sticky stuff.  Also wise to start by giving it a good clean with a priming/cleaning fluid and letting that dry also 
Good luck, I'll bet the 2 year old is a great helper!

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## alive

Well I ended up trying to do it right. 
I removed the entire shower screen, cleaned all the old silicone out and resealed. 
I'm convinced the problem was due the tile to base silicone seal being installed after the shower frame. Therefore, there was no silicone behind the frame. As the frame is sealed from the front and water is designed to run back into the base, the lack of sealant gave a path to behind the skirting board. 
Anyway, I've a had a few showers and sprayed allot of water at the problem corner. No leakage that I can find. 
I decided to remove the frame after talking to a guy at work who'd DIYed his whole bathroom with a full tiled shower. He said that the shower screen was the only part he didn't do and the only part that leaked. Eventually he had to remove the frame and do it himself. 
Now I just have to fix the other shower.

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