# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  Kogan - What a load of Bollox

## METRIX

I'm in the market for a new phone as iPhone plan has come to an end, I like the Samsung Alpha, unfortunately Telstra don't offer it under any plans currently. 
I happened to see it online today at DSE for an outright price of $439.20 (online purchase only) most other selling it for $599, Kogan $549, it was a good deal, and thought I could just buy it outright, went to purchase from DSE and they had no Black one's left, only white. 
 I didn't want white so thought to look at Kogan as they pride themselves on being the cheapest, current price $549. 
I sent their price match email a message, linking to the DSE site and got the scripted response below.  Thank you for your enquiry.  We  believe we have the best deals in the market and monitor all major  retailers on a daily basis to ensure our deals are ahead of the  competition. On  rare occasions you may find a product at a lower price than Kogan.com  but you should ensure that you are checking all aspects of the offer  including: +Kogan.com provide comprehensive Australia wide warranty. So does DSE 
+Kogan.com provide a money-back guarantee. So can DSE 
+Kogan.com are a trusted Australian brand that has been around for nearly a decade. Dick Smith has been around for 46 years 
+Kogan.com offer Australian based customer service and support. So does DSE via their 300+ stores 
+Kogan.com offer very fast dispatch and delivery DSE offer quicker, Kogan leaves warehouse in 1-2 weeks, DSE delivered in 3-5 days 
+Kogan.com offer competitive Australia wide delivery rates No they don't, DSE delivery $5.95, Kogan $22.99, plus you can add another $5.95 to make sure their dodgy courier does not break it on the way, so total cost for same product delivered by Kogan $28.98  ?  This really pees me off, how some sellers overcharge for postage, Kogan is a purely online store, they don't have big overheads like retail shops, yet a retail outlet like DSE can offer postage less than 1/4 the cost of kogan, this has always been a Kogan scam, sell the item cheaper, but make it up on postage.  
Below is a shipping charges from Kogan, 6 little items, and it cost $52 to ship them, they even charg $90 to ship a large LED TV, when every other outlet it's free delivery for their LED' TV'S.   *Kogan.com* is the largest online department store in Australia,  selling tens of thousands of products through its online  direct-to-customer store.  The company, founded in 2006 by Ruslan Kogan,  delivers products to customers in Australia, United Kingdom, Belgium,  Finland, France, Hong Kong, Ireland, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, and  the US.  
 The company competes on price by selling electronics and home appliances direct to consumers through Kogan.com. 
 This business model and some of the company's advertising tactics have resulted in high-profile controversies.  
 Kogan achieved $3 million in its third year, followed by $8 million in the fourth, $22 million in the fifth, $70 million in the sixth, and over $200 million in the seventh year  Kogan is projected to produce more than A$350 million in fiscal 2014,  and has been growing at between 200% and 300% per year since its 2006  inception. 
 The Wall Street Journal speculates Kogan is worth over $400M

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## phild01

I wouldn't ever entertain the thought of buying a Kogan product.

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## Renopa

Could always buy the white phone and put a black cover on it!!

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## OBBob



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## Renopa

Do you think it would be worth putting some masking tape on the screen??  or just take pot luck that it doesn't get too much overspray??  LOL...

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## OBBob

> Do you think it would be worth putting some masking tape on the screen??  or just take pot luck that it doesn't get too much overspray??  LOL...

  Spray it all over and then scrape of the screen with a blade I reckon ... what could go wrong?  :Tongue:

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## Renopa

If you were doing it....nothing (of course~~)!!

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## paddyjoy

and they ages to deliver as they grey import everything from overseas.

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## METRIX

> and they ages to deliver as they grey import everything from overseas.

  Yep, agree, this is why they have up to 2 weeks leaves warehouse lag time, as they obviously don't stock anything here.

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## METRIX

> I wouldn't ever entertain the thought of buying a Kogan product.

  Agree, now they are selling waffle makers, toasters, perhaps power tools soon.

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## justonething

If I were you. I'd buy the white samsung from dick smith and then take a trip to china town and buy a black case for 10 bucks.

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## phild01

Kogan started selling 2nd rate TV's equivalent to any other no-name type products bargain priced elsewhere, and promoting himself as super competitive on several A Current Affairs programs on 9.  My guess is this is all he really wants to sell and anything with proper branding he is reluctant to engage in competitively.  I have always considered his own brand imports akin to the cheap stuff you get on ebay!

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## METRIX

> If I were you. I'd buy the white samsung from dick smith and then take a trip to china town and buy a black case for 10 bucks.

  Or just out of curiosity have a look this morning and notice there are limited number of black one's in stock, so order it from DSE, Stick that Kogan.

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## METRIX

> Kogan started selling 2nd rate TV's equivalent to any other no-name type products bargain priced elsewhere, and promoting himself as super competitive on several A Current Affairs programs on 9.  My guess is this is all he really wants to sell and anything with proper branding he is reluctant to engage in competitively.  I have always considered his own brand imports akin to the cheap stuff you get on ebay!

  Yep, I remember there was a lot of wispers being thrown around about his TV'S were rebadged Samsung's, that was a load of advertising   :Poop: . 
There is only a limited number of panel manufacturers at last count it was 10, probably less now with GFC, below is a list of who they are and who they manufacture for, you will see the various manufacturers make panels for many brands, from a no nmae tooa brand name TV, the low end panels would be the ones rejected and can't be used in the expensive models so end up in the Kogans, Soniq, TEAC, Conia etc 
Not that there's anything wrong with that, and I know a lot of people have Kogan product (obviously from the amount of turnover they have) and they are probably perfectly happy with them because they don't know there is actually a difference between a low end and a top end TV.  
For myself I would rather buy the genuine Samsung product, sure you do pay a little more for it but not that much in comparison, but lets compare the Kogan offering , Kogan 55" Smart LCD $799, with delivery cost $842.
You could buy a same low end TV from JB a 55" Soniq Smart TV for $699, so it's actually cheaper than Kogan.        
Display manufacturers. 
LG Display: - Samsung, LGE, Philips, Vizo, Panasonic, Toshiba, Hitachi, AmTRAN and Skyworth  
Sharp Japan: - Toshiba, Philips, Sony, Pioneer (LCD) and Sharp 
Chi Mei Optoelectronics: - Samsung, Philips, Funai, LGE, Toshiba and Sony 
AU Optronics: - Sony, Samsung, Philips, LGE, Toshiba, Proview, Panasonic 
Chunghwa Picture Tubes: - Sony, Samsung and Konka 
Samsung SDI: - JVC, Samsung, Sony, Philips, Sanyo and Panasonic 
Wistron Optronics: Unknown --- Sony 
IPS Alpha Technology Hitachi and Panasonic 
Delta Electronics: Unknown 
TPV Technology Limited: Unknown 
In relation to their "Money Back Guarantee" in their reply email, this is only for Kogan Branded Products, so again they are not telling you the entire truth, if it's not Kogan Branded they wont offer you money Back Guarantee again Bollox.  
And then you can also add the extended warranty to the Kogan product which is also a load of Bollox, the consumer laws introduced in 2011 provide protection for devices which fail to meet your reasonable expectations, so if your $1000 TV fails in one year and one day you can enact the laws to have it repaired, there is no need for extended warranties unless they offer MORE than the manufacturers warranty. 
ie they must offer you in-home service for repair where the original warranty required you to take it to a repair centre, of they need to offer you a loan unit where the original one did not supply this, if it offers you nothing more then it's a load of bollox and they cannot sell you the warranty, as it's covered by the consumer laws. 
Lets say we add "peace of mind" 5 year warranty to that Kogan TV (we have all heard the peace of mind statement thrown around by the dodgy shop assistant), all of a sudden that low end TV cost's you $1010, for that price you could buy a LG55" Smart, or if you shop around a Samsung 55" Smart and I would be fairly confident they both will still be working perfectly fine in 5 years. 
And they make out like their doing you a favour of offering FREE 1 year Australian Warranty, it's not FREE it's included, I hate resellers who play on word to make something from nothing trying to convince you your getting something extra. 
This has been something that Harvey Normal was flogging for years, now Kogan is doing the same.   **     
Below is an exert from the ACCC website regarding extended warranties, and your rights, makes for some interesting reading which a lot of people don't know their rights.  *Extended warranties or care packages* 
 Retailers sometimes offer to sell you an extended warranty or care  package to extend the length of time of the manufacturer’s warranty.  
Some may tell you that an extended warranty provides extra protections  you wouldn’t usually get. 
 This isn’t necessarily true, as you  automatically have consumer guarantees that suppliers must comply with, regardless of what they say or any warranties they offer.  
You don’t have to buy an extended warranty – it is optional. 
 Suppliers risk breaching the law if they:  put undue pressure on you or use unfair tactics to get you to buy an extended warrantymislead you into paying for the rights that you already have under the consumer guarantees.  *Do your research before paying extra for an extended warranty*  *Before buying an extended warranty, always ask the supplier to list  what it gives you over and above your automatic consumer guarantees.*     *Repair, replace, refund* 
                                                                                                                     You have the right to ask for a repair, replacement or refund under the Australian Consumer Law consumer guarantees for products and services bought on or after 1 January 2011.  Repair, replacement or refundRepairsReplacements and refundsWhat is a major problem?Returning the productApproaching the retailer or manufacturer'No refund' signs and expired warrantiesIf it’s not right, use your rightsMore information     *Repair, replacement or refund* 
  You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair,  replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For  example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked  for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else,  decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.
  See: Exceptions to consumer guarantees
  If you have a *minor problem* with a product or  service, the business can choose to give you a free repair instead of a  replacement or refund. When you have a *major problem* with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund. For a major problem with a *service*, you can choose to receive compensation for the drop in value below the price paid, or a refund. *Repairs* 
  If the problem with a product or service is minor, you must accept a free repair if the business offers you one.
  If the business fails to give you a free repair within a reasonable time or cannot fix your problem, you can:  get it done elsewhere and pass on the costs to the businessask for a replacementask for a refundrecover compensation for the drop in value below the price paid.  *Repair notices* 
  Under the Australian Consumer Law, businesses accepting goods for repair must provide consumers with repair notices when:  the goods being repaired are capable of retaining user-generated  data, for example, mobile phones, computers, portable music players and  other similar electronic goodsit is the repairer’s practice to supply refurbished goods rather  than repair defective goods, or to use refurbished parts in the repair  of defective goods. 
  The consumer must receive the repair notice in writing before the goods are accepted by the business for repair. *Replacements and refunds* 
  You can ask for a replacement or refund if the problem with the product is major.
  Replaced products must be of an identical type to the product  originally supplied. Refunds should be the same amount you have already  paid, provided in the same form as your original payment.
  The business may take into account how much time has passed since you bought the product considering the following factors:  type of producthow a consumer is likely to use the productthe length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be usedthe amount of use it could reasonably be expected to tolerate before the failure becomes noticeable. 
  For a major problem with services you can cancel the contract and  obtain a refund or seek compensation for the drop in value of your  services provided compared to the price paid. *What is a major problem?* 
  A product or good has a major problem when:  it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about itit is unsafeit is significantly different from the sample or descriptionit doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed. 
  A service has a major problem when:  it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about itit is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable timeit does not meet the specific purpose you asked for and cannot easily be fixed within a reasonable timeit creates an unsafe situation.  *Returning the product* 
  You are responsible for returning the product, unless the cost of  doing so is significant. In this case, the business must organise and  pay for the return or exchange.
  Examples of goods the supplier would have to collect:  127 cm LCD TVbedswimming pool filter connected to a pool by fixed pipesextension ladder stuck in the extended position. 
  You *do not* have to return products in the original packaging in order to get a refund. *Approaching the retailer or manufacturer* 
  The retailer who sold you the product or service cannot refuse to  help you by sending you to the manufacturer or importer. You can  approach the manufacturer or importer directly, however, you will only  be entitled to recover costs from them, which include an amount for  reduction in the product’s value and in some cases compensation for damages or loss. You cannot demand a repair, replacement or refund from the manufacturer.
  See also: Who to claim a remedy from *'No refund' signs and expired warranties* 
  It is against the law for businesses to tell you or show signs  stating that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including  for gifts and during sales.
  Your rights under the consumer guarantees do not have a specific expiry date and can apply even after any warranties you’ve got from a business have expired. *If it’s not right, use your rights*  Make a consumer complaint

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## Marc

And when you get your phone, rather than going with telstra, go with Think Mobile or any other telstra retailer and pay half what telstra charges you and still on their network.

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## METRIX

> And when you get your phone, rather than going with telstra, go with Think Mobile or any other telstra retailer and pay half what telstra charges you and still on their network.

  Already have a good deal with Telstra, plus they just dropped the monthly by $25 as am incentive to keep me with them. 
Although the Ultimate plan from Think is worth considering, the only thing with most of the tack on carriers you lose 4G access, and are put on lower priority tower access to the full paying customers. 
My mate is with Optus on an unlimited plan, and he is guaranteed to drop out 8 out of 10 times he calls.   *Australian Mobile Providers* 
                                          With so many mobile providers operating on different networks in  Australia today selecting the best provider for your needs can be a  daunting task.                  _IDD_ aims to make choosing a little easier by listing  Australia's mobile carriers and mobile virtual network operators (MVNO),  their                  operational frequencies, and the services they offer. *Australian Mobile Carriers*  *Provider* *Network Type / Frequencies Supported*  Telstra *2G / 3G / 4G:* GSM 900, 1800 / UMTS 850, 2100 / LTE 1800  Optus *2G / 3G / 4G:* GSM 900, 1800 / UMTS 900, 2100 / LTE 1800, 2300  Vodafone *2G / 3G / 4G:* GSM 900, 1800 / UMTS 850, 900, 2100 / LTE 1800   *Mobile Virtual Network Operators (MVNO)*  *Provider* *Network* *4G LTE* *Postpaid* *Prepaid*  ALDImobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  Amaysim Optus ✗ ✓ ✓  Boost Mobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  Commander Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  ClubTelco Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Dodo Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Exetel Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  GoTalk Vodafone ✗ ✓ ✓  GTMobile Telstra (2G only) ✗ ✗ ✓  Hello Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  iPrimus Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Jeenee Mobile Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Just Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Live Connected Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Lebara Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Lycamobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  SlimTel Optus / Vodafone 1 ✗ ✓ ✗  Southern Phone Optus / Telstra 4 ✗ ✓ ✗  Startel Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  Red Bull Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Reward Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✓ ✗  TelcoGreen Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  TeleChoice Telstra ✗ ✓ ✗  Think Mobile Vodafone / Telstra 2 ✗ ✓ ✓  TPG Optus ✗ ✓ 3 ✗  Ugly Bill Telstra ✗ ✓ ✗  Vaya Mobile Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Virgin Mobile Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Yatango Mobile Optus ✓ ✗ ✓  
 - See more at: Australian Mobile Providers - Carriers & MVNOs | IDD

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## woodbe

Yep, you get what you pay for unfortunately. I gave up on Optus because of the dropouts, and none of the resellers for Telstra I could find offered the full Telstra network. If you're happy with downgraded Telstra you can save a bit of money.

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## METRIX

> Yep, you get what you pay for unfortunately.

  
Like most things these days, I am happy with Telstra, I may get 1 dropout every 6 months which is very good considering I'm all over the place and reception is always there. 
Very rarely have I seen the phone go to 1-2 bars.

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## Marc

What is downgraded telstra? I had Think for years, don't know what a dropout is. Go for weekend in an area that has no reception from voda or optus, TV is via satellite because it is a black hole yet I get telstra reception upload photos from the phone, can go on the internet, I don't need anything else. How much better is telstra direct? I know, my wife has telstra direct and besides paying twice as much as I do and using the phone less, the reception is the same, no difference. I think that is a bit of a myth. At least it is in Sydney. Other places I wouldn't know.

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## David.Elliott

In Jarrahdale WA our Telstra is getting gradually worse. I'm now down to one specific spot in the house where I get coverage..
Neighbours are finding same. One neighbour has an Optus and a Telstra phone, both iPhone 4s,(it's a work thing), now gets better coverage on the Optus than the Telstra, but apparently they share network? 
Logged a "support" (Ha!) call and email. T wanted specific dates and times when a call dropped out. The little Phillipino was quite confused when I said it's not that a call drops, it's the fact that I don't have coverage MOST of the time!
Apparently there is no box to tick for that. 
My email got the same response, "please list the date, time, of the last ? dropouts you have had..." 
Local folklore has the block where the T tower is changing hands in the past, with no assignment of lease being lodged with the original owner. And the new owner hates T and won't let them on to work on tower. 
So coverage has been gradually getting worse. Dunno how true but it fits my experiences...

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## woodbe

> What is downgraded telstra?

  If you're happy with what you have, stay with it. 
Telstra has three networks: GSM (2g), 3g, and 4g. If you have a cheap sim from a reseller like you have, you don't get 4g, and you are at the bottom of the pecking order - if the local network is saturated you will get kicked first. 
You can see the difference between the network coverage and speeds on the Telstra coverage map (select detailed view and zoom into your region):  Telstra - Our Coverage - Mobile 
It's possible you don't have a 4g capable phone, but if you did and you did a back to back comparison you would see a big difference in network speed.

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## METRIX

As shown below from the above list if the MVNO'S give access to 4G, Most dont, but if you don;t need this access some of the MVNO plase are good value  *Mobile Virtual Network Operators (MVNO)*  *Provider* *Network* *4G LTE* *Postpaid* *Prepaid*  ALDImobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  Amaysim Optus ✗ ✓ ✓  Boost Mobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  Commander Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  ClubTelco Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Dodo Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Exetel Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  GoTalk Vodafone ✗ ✓ ✓  GTMobile Telstra (2G only) ✗ ✗ ✓  Hello Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  iPrimus Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Jeenee Mobile Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  Just Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Live Connected Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Lebara Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Lycamobile Telstra ✗ ✗ ✓  SlimTel Optus / Vodafone 1 ✗ ✓ ✗  Southern Phone Optus / Telstra 4 ✗ ✓ ✗  Startel Optus ✓ ✓ ✗  Red Bull Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✗ ✓  Reward Mobile Vodafone ✗ ✓ ✗  TelcoGreen Optus ✗ ✓ ✗  TeleChoice Telstra ✗ ✓ ✗  Think Mobile Vodafone / Telstra 2 ✗ ✓ ✓  TPG Optus ✗ ✓ 3 ✗  Ugly Bill Telstra ✗ ✓ ✗  Vaya Mobile Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Virgin Mobile Optus ✓ ✓ ✓  Yatango Mobile Optus ✓ ✗ ✓   
  - See more at: Australian Mobile Providers - Carriers & MVNOs | IDD

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## woodbe

> In Jarrahdale WA our Telstra is getting gradually worse.

  Looking on google satelite images, it looks like you are in a growing area. As the population increases there are more Telstra customers and the result is that unless Telstra increase their capacity faster than the population growth around their tower, everyone starts having connection issues. If you were on Think, it would be even worse in your area because you would have less priority than Telstra customers. 
I'm not aware of Optus and Telstra sharing networks and it's probably not likely because they use some different frequencies depending on the band. It's quite likely that they share towers though. 
You can see the location of towers around Jarrahdale on spench.net (close the news popup and all will be revealed)

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## Renopa

Telstra is just about non-existent where I live, don't hold your breath waiting for a Telstra signal.  Last week the Telstra network didn't even have a signal at all for 5-6 days where Optus had full signal every day.

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## Smurf

> Telstra is just about non-existent where I live

   In that case, Optus is your logical choice.

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