# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  When the capenter stuffs up, What should I do?

## peg

Hi, 
We've almost completed our extention on our home. We've added a new bedroom and extra hallway as owner builders.  
The situation we are now dealing with is that our carpenter has not correctly installed the varanda columns. At the moment the columns are just sitting over the varanda posts and are not attached.  Basically, the carpenter has not put the wooden blocks inside the base of the columns (as per the manufacturers instructions)  so we cannot screw the posts into anything... unless we screw them into the actual post higher up the column and then we'll have to fix the screw hole and it will look dodgy.  
Here is the problem... because the carpenter has already installed the eves, we cannot lift the posts up in order to put the wooden blocks inside the columns.  This means that the only way to do it is to take the eves down.   
We have already paid the carpenter for his work. So how should we proceed?  Are we within our rights to ask the carpenter to come back and remove the eves and replace them again after we put the wooden blocks in, or are we stuck with doing this ourselves and paying for the eves to be done all over again?? 
We dont want to pay this particular carpenter any more money because we are very dissatisfied with him. And the other issue is that he did not charge us for installing the columns because he said he did not notice they were on the plans. What would you do?

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## johnc

This is not going to end well from what you have said, you are not happy and by the sounds of it the carpenter is going to have to be dragged along to have what you think needs put right. 
It really is a time to decide if rather than the angst and the worry you just wait until this bloke is finished and get another carpenter in for an opinion and finish off if necessary. It is not always necessary to follow manufacturers instructions to be compliant either, but it is certainly desirable.  
You need to work out what can be done, generally eves can be propped and posts removed and it may be possible to do that in this case, on the otherhand it is possible that the work that has been done is fit for the purpose and nothing to worry about. 
You need a second visual inspection and go from there. Generally if there is a definite misunderstanding I think it can be fair to pay extra, but in this case where plans are available it really is the chippies mistake and that also would apply to the failure to install properly unless you had yourself failed to give him the instructions.

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## peg

Hi, thanks for your reply. 
I have already told the carpenter that we will not be asking him to come back to finish the job off. (thats for the window/door frames & skirting) we paid him for his work before we realized there was a problem with the columns.  If i had of known, i would not have paid him until the issue was resolved.  But now that its all paid up, i doubt he'd come back to fix it anyway.  
I spoke to him and asked about the blocks of wood that should be in the base of the columns and he said we can just screw the columns to the posts...but that means the screw hole will be visible and, although possible,  its not the best option and certainly not what we want.  We can't leave the columns as they are because they move about as they are not connected...besides that, they were cut slightly too short by the carpenter anyway...so there is also a small gap at the top that shouldnt be there.  
Im just wondering if we are within our rights to ask him to deal with the part of the job we have already paid him for, ie the eves.  Or is it too late?

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## jiggy

If you could post a couple of pics i'm sure someone could come up with an alternate solution.

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## johnc

As they are just flapping about in the breeze I assume they are non structural, it should be possible to work a fix, nails may also be a possibility rather than screws and easier to hide. As Jiggy said see if you can post a pic, someone is bound to have an idea. Are the posts sitting on concrete, a deck or something else?

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## peg

Hi, 
well here is our extension    
The 3 columns are the issue.  The screw is supposed to go into the base, then the cap sits over the top to cover the screw hole:  The wooden blocks that are supposed to be inside the base here, is what the column is screwed into and the cap covers the hole.  
But as you can see, the eves are already on, so we can't lift the columns to insert the wooden block.    and you may notice the large gap at the top of the column cap...thats because he cut the column too short by about 1cm.  Not sure how we can fix that little problem.

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## peg

Hi Johnc,  the columns are decorative and not structural.  Inside the columns are the varanda posts which are screwed into the concrete slab and attached to the varanda framing.  The columns are sitting over those posts and, yes , they can move around because they havnt been secured yet...but they can't fall over obviously lol

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## chrisp

Are you after ideas on how to fix it, or are you after advice on getting the carpenter back to fix it? 
If it were me, I'd probably just fix it myself.  Can the column be raised?  i.e. is there some up-down slack?  If so, you could left it a bit to close the gap at the top.  You could pack the bottom and the ring at the bottom will probably cover the gap and the packing material.  You might be able to secure the column in place with grout or similar.  Or screws/dynabolts at an angle though the base of the column (and covered by the ring).  I'm not sure what to do at the top, but something similar might be able to be done.  Does the top have a moveable ring too?

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## Craigoss

Doesn't look like a major concern, sure you can't bolt a bracket onto the column attaching it to the verandah? Then notch out some of the base to allow space for the bracket / bolts to cover it up.

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## peg

Hi, thanks for the reply, 
the problem is that we cannot lift the columns because the eves are in.  If the eves were not there, then we could lift the columns up and insert the wooden blocks. The blocks should be at least 5cm thick....so i need to lift the column at least that high. 
I guess im asking if it would be unreasonable to ask the carpenter to come back and remove the eves, then replace them again, so that we can insert the wooden blocks.  I've already paid him for his work and told him that we will be finishing the rest off ourselves.  So its not like he has to come back to do anymore work here.  But i just dont know if im within my rights to get him to come and do the eves.   
Also, the top cap is still loose, it can't be lowered, but can be raised.  Again, the only way to raise the cap is to remove the eves.

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## peg

that could be a possiblity, sure.  It would have to be a very small flat bracket though.  but maybe yes....thanks for that suggestion as we hadnt though of that and it sounds easy.  
we have only considered the advice from the manufacturer...that is to screw the column into the wooden post at the top and the wooden block at the base...then cover the screws with the caps.

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## chrisp

> the problem is that we cannot lift the columns because the eves are in.  If the eves were not there, then we could lift the columns up and insert the wooden blocks. The blocks should be at least 5cm thick....so i need to lift the column at least that high.

  I was only thinking of the possibility of lifting it 10mm or so - to close up the top gap and to allow grout (or whatever) to be pushed into the cavity of the column. 
Another idea: You might be able to fill the cavity of the column with expanding foam.

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## peg

we could insert some strips of cement sheeting underneath the column base to lift it...thats what i did on the far left column...it works but its bodgy because it also lifts the cap off the ground....so i'd have to then fill the gap between the cap and the ground.

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## ringtail

How big are the posts inside and what is the diameter of the fibro colums ? If the posts are 100 x100 and the tube is 200 mm, then you would have roughly 50 mm each side of the timber post. You could just screw straight through the colum from opposing sides, maybe even on 4 sides, using long gal screws. Leave the colums sitting hard down on the slab so there is no weight on the screws then slide the cover rings to cover

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## peg

> How big are the posts inside and what is the diameter of the fibro colums ? If the posts are 100 x100 and the tube is 200 mm, then you would have roughly 50 mm each side of the timber post. You could just screw straight through the colum from opposing sides, maybe even on 4 sides, using long gal screws. Leave the colums sitting hard down on the slab so there is no weight on the screws then slide the cover rings to cover

  Hi, 
the posts are 90m x 90m  
the columns are 250mx195m

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## johnc

I'd pack up the column from underneath so it is in contact (within about 3mm) of the top and caulk the top join. At the bottom you just want to stop it moving, after packing is in place I would caulk the gap and let it set, drill a hole where the collar later drops over and shove an expanding foam nozzle in and give it a long squirt. Providing it goes right round evenly (perhaps put a hole both sides) it will give all the stability it needs. Clean any surplus with a chisel once it dries, put caulking on the bottom of the collar and drop into position, no screws required the silicone/caulking will hold it in place. There are other ways but that one should work. You will need to leave a small gap in the base of the collar to allow moisture to escape.

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