# Forum More Stuff Owner Builders Forum  BCA: commercial/ new rules for disabled

## Puggy-too

Hi all,
Big problem. My building inspector says I have to have a disabled (wheelchair) access toilet. New ruling from the 1 May 2011, for just about all commercial building projects.  I only have a space of 92 sq. mts. and as the fit-out in the warehouse is for more than 50% of the building, so apparently I need wheelchair access!  Bit of over-kill as I'm a one man operation. (I have converted a small storage unit into a working office space through town planning - took more than 6 months - so as it'd be legit!) my only out seems to be if I pay for the adjoining large common use toilet to be converted to wheelchair access.  Owners say I can do it at my expense. This is a new development finished in 2010, although the building permit may have been issued before that.  Surely the common toilet should have been wheelchair access?  My problem is that I'd already built the toilet before the inspector saw it as he didn't get back to me for 5 weeks as he "had the flu".  - Sound familiar? He said that it would be o.k. if I convert the common use toilet or rebuild my own!   There is an exemption from my understanding of reading of the BCA in the library today.  (Yes, you can read it for free in the library online.) You are exempt if it's 'unsafe' or 'inappropriate' (because of the use of the building) for a wheelchair to access.  I'm in a compound (lockable) surrounded by warehouses and storages units using fork-lifts.  Plus, my very small recording studio will have loads of electrical cables across the floor making it 'unsafe' and 'inappropriate' for obvious reasons. - Before I shoot off an email to the building surveyor does anyone have any advice on how to tackle this. Appreciate any comment (soon). Surely thay can't make every one-man fit out provide wheelchair access? (got to be out of my other place 7.11.11) desperate and out of doh!

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## intertd6

I don't know how it works down there, but up here in NSW once an approval has been given & the conditions are on the development or construction consent then thats it, they cant change their minds & add anything more.
regards inter

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## chrisp

> There is an exemption from my understanding of reading of the BCA in the library today.  (Yes, you can read it for free in the library online.) You are exempt if it's 'unsafe' or 'inappropriate' (because of the use of the building) for a wheelchair to access.

   :Rotfl:  
Run that by me again. Are you are claiming the area is, or will, unsafe for able-bodied people, therefore you are arguing that you'll keep disable-bodied people out as well and therefore you won't need to cater for their needs!  Good Luck!  You'll need it. 
Have a read of Access: Guidelines and information    

> The law says that a person with a disability must be able to access  any building that the public is allowed to enter or use, and to have  access to any goods, services or facilities just like any other customer  or visitor. The law applies to all levels of Government and the private  sector.   
>        If a person with a disability cannot get into your building or  cannot access your goods or services they could make a complaint of  discrimination under either State or Territory discrimination laws, or  the DDA.

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## Gaza

i actual meet the guy that wrote that new AS he is a massive nerd for details, its buletproof. 
maybe try to say its an existing bathroom & your fitout is not part of that area?

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## Puggy-too

> I don't know how it works down there, but up here in NSW once an approval has been given & the conditions are on the development or construction consent then thats it, they cant change their minds & add anything more.
> regards inter

  Hi intertd6,
Thanks for your reply. I think the problem is that I applied through council to have the storage unit usage changed through planning into a class 5 office/warehouse(recording studio). So it's like a new "item" - So, you start from scratch. I wanted it to be totally legit so nobody could close me down (even though it's 100% sound-proofed and no one would complain, anyway[?]) Because it is a whole new building I need a building permit. Or is the wheelchair access separate to the building permit. It's the building surveyor who says I need it. How do I clarify this? thanks again.

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## Puggy-too

r  

> Run that by me again. Are you are claiming the area is, or will, unsafe for able-bodied people, therefore you are arguing that you'll keep disable-bodied people out as well and therefore you won't need to cater for their needs!  Good Luck!  You'll need it. 
> Have a read of Access: Guidelines and information

  (Thanks for your reply.   And thanks for the link for ‘ACCESS’  - easier to understand than the BCA.) 
Is the above what I’m claiming?   No, but what I am claiming is that in Section D (access & egress) of the BCA (it states) under D.3.4  EXEMPTIONS: 
A/  An area where access would be inappropriate because of the particular purpose for which the area is to be used.
B/Any area that would pose a health or safety risk for people with a disability
c/Any path of access only to an area exempted by a/ or b/ 
For instance: can you have blind people working in a commercial kitchen safely? Or, is this inappropriate?
I have microphones, cables, huge amps, a full drum kit, a grand piano in a 25 sq. mt. space.  Is this appropriate for wheelchair access? The space isn’t big enough to contain those things and a wheelchair.
Interestingly, if a supermarket has less than 1200 patrons they don’t need any toilets at all (only for staff & then because of the staff factor – 8 hour day - ) - Did I understand that clause correctly?
I imagine if I sell my business to a wheelchair bound person this is why my small studio needs the wheelchair access toilet.
But,  anyway, it’s not about luck, Crisp, it’s about the law.
Do I have to wait weeks for an exemption (if I apply for one) or has a building surveyor got the power to consider my request and issue the exemption?
Just wondering if size is a factor in the BCA. Like work space under 100 square mts. Are there exemptions?  I’m not sure what part of the BCA mentions,  “fit-out of more than 50% of a building area requires wheelchair access."   Can anyone help?

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## Puggy-too

> i actual meet the guy that wrote that new AS he is a massive nerd for details, its buletproof. 
> maybe try to say its an existing bathroom & your fitout is not part of that area?

  Hi Gaza,
Thanks for your reply.   -   Too late.  The toilet was/is drawn into the plans by the person who designed the studio so they're the plans that the building surveyor is working off.  What to do?   But your idea is perfect.  I could have had the plan drawn up just for the 2 rooms. (control room/recording studio) & stuck the toilet in.  The surveyor only works off the "plans"...........  
Ho Hum.... another $2000 down (am I being pessimistic?) in order to alter the toilet complex belonging to one of the biggest developers in Melbourne. Crikey!

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## intertd6

Once a building is used for public use & not domestic then by not having the required access for all individuals ( disabled ) it is a form of discrimination. All the get out of gaol clauses are for govt depts to use when ever they need them to save money.
regards inter

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## Puggy-too

> Once a building is used for public use & not domestic then by not having the required access for all individuals ( disabled ) it is a form of discrimination. All the get out of gaol clauses are for govt depts to use when ever they need them to save money.
> regards inter

  Thanks intertd6 for responding. Didn't quite get what you meant by "get of of gaol for gov depts" - then the 'penny dropped'. You meant the exemptions clause - right?  Yeah - I thought the same thing. If you have time and money then you have clout.  I've written a "nice" email to the building surveyor stating my case - zero space for a wheelchair - inappropriate - don't fit - etc.... (It's his fault if someone's wheel gets caught in a cable and pulls down 200 kilos of amp on their head!)    He never responds, anyway.  The last thing I got was from his assistant with the pdf on what's required - no other comment.  Paid $2000 up front. Easy money.  Might re-train.  At the moment, I'm looking at grab rails on ebay.  There's one for $0.01 cent...........
regards, pugsy...

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## Sir Stinkalot

Can I suggest you download and read the following: 
Disability (Access to Premises - Buildings) Standards 2010. 
These are the standards that came into effect 1 May 2011 and are in addition to the BCA.

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## Puggy-too

Thanks Sir Stinkalot, 
Disability (Access to Premises - Buildings) Standards 2010. 
There is a lot of information in there.
Also,   I've since read a lot of the Premises Standards Guideline from the Australian Human Rights Commission website.
On page 59 of the above Guideline is says:
Note :
The Premises Standards requires that, in all these classes of building, if toilets 
are provided for staff, customers or visitors, a unisex accessible toilet is 
required irrespective of the number of toilets provided. This has been the case 
under the BCA for many years. 
********************************
An unisex accessible toilet is also a wheelchair accessible toilet - is that right? In all the documents I've read 'accessible' means for everyone including people who use wheelchairs. - Right? Therefore, our common-use unisex toilet (built last year) should have been wheelchair access - right?
Does anyone know?
Someone said it was only for unisex - not wheelchair? I think the word accessible relates to 'all'.
Thanks.

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## Morry2

BCA Definitions -  _"A1.1 Definitions 
In Volume One of the BCA  Accessible means having features to permit use by people with disabilities._" 
according to that id say its referring to all

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## Puggy-too

> BCA Definitions -  _"A1.1 Definitions 
> In Volume One of the BCA  Accessible means having features to permit use by people with disabilities._" 
> according to that id say its referring to all

  Thanks Morry2,
I thought so. I phoned the Human Rights Commission of Australia. They pointed me in the direction of the: 
AUSTRALIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION 
Guideline on the application of the Premises Standards  2011 
A.7.1 Limited application to new parts and affected part in existing buildings 
*******************************  
Limited application to new parts and affected part in existing buildings 
When new building work takes place in an existing building and a building 
approval is required for that new work, the requirements for upgrading access 
are limited to the area of new work and the affected part. Access requirements 
are not imposed outside the area of the new work.  
For example, a building owner undertakes renovations on one level of their 
building. The application for building approval triggers the application of the 
Premises Standards. While the Premises Standards will apply to the area of 
new work and the affected part of the building they will not apply to the other 
levels not being upgraded. 
These areas of the building outside the area of the new work will continue to be 
subject to the existing DDA complaints provisions. 
See appendix 1 for an overview of the application of the Premises Standards to 
new and existing buildings. 
*******************************
An architect friend agreed that maybe I should put in an amendment to my building permit to have the toilet in my plans removed. Therefore I wouldn't have to alter the existing toilet. 
Moving everything in the common use toilet an inch each way is going to cost me $3,000 plus.....
*******************
Quote by:  Gaza    			 			i actual meet the guy that wrote that new AS he is a massive nerd for details, its buletproof. 
maybe try to say its an existing bathroom & your fitout is not part of that area? 		*****************************
Thanks Gazza,  You came the closest to solving the problem.  Just have to step next door to use the toilet/ It adjoins my unit. Will run this past the Building surveyor.
Cheers ......

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## Gaza

> Thanks Morry2,
> I thought so. I phoned the Human Rights Commission of Australia. They pointed me in the direction of the: 
> AUSTRALIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION 
> Guideline on the application of the Premises Standards – 2011 
> A.7.1 Limited application to new parts and ‘affected part’ in existing buildings 
> *******************************  
> Limited application to new parts and ‘affected part’ in existing buildings 
> When new building work takes place in an existing building and a building 
> approval is required for that new work, the requirements for upgrading access 
> ...

  cheers 
for the heads up, lucky i spent all that time at uni to answer questions on the forum.

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## Puggy-too

> cheers 
> for the heads up, lucky i spent all that time at uni to answer questions on the forum.

  Hi Gazza,
I jumped the gun! The building inspector said - "no go!"  Regardless of Human Rights Commission and their exemptions I still gotta put wheelchair toilet in. He says must comply with BCA. Also, he says it's very fishy. That I should find out the building surveyor who signed off on this job (common toilet) last year.  He said that he thinks it did not comply.  It'll cost me $83.50 to get the info from Council.  He says he'll ring the guy ( the developments building surveyor) to find out what's going on.
One other point.  The builder behind me in these units is adding something to his and he only has to put in the Braille things on the staircase. What the.....!!!!
My friend (architect) says I really don't need one because I'm not open to the public to just walk in off the street.  The plot thickens.
I have 3 years to comply.  Help - Gazza?  Anyone?

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