# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Sika 11FC - Tacky..

## 5teve

Hi Guys 
Wasnt sure which forum to put this in so its landed here. 
I ran 2 beads of sealant down a tile to do some stain tests on. (I had noticed the 11fc was still a little tacky where I sealed the shower tray to the wall / wp membrane a day or so after and was picking up dirt quite badly) I put 1 bead of 11fc and 1 bead of sikasil on the tile and left them to harden. 
2 days on and the sikasil is just like silicon (duh!) its hardened, looks to be fairly stain resistant. The 11FC is still sticky, its not liquid still but the surface is tacky and picks up dirt from the fingers badly..  
Is this normal for sika 11fc? Its still in date and was from a sausage rather than a tube. If normal - How long until it has an impermeable skin? 
Are there any alternates for 11fc that are non silicon and usable on the tile to shower tray join and the corner tile joint. 
Steve

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## paddyjoy

I don't think it should be still tacky the next day, doesn't sound right. I recently used a tube of it on our balcony and within an hour it had a decent skin on it, next day it was fully cured. Suppose it depends on thickness and temperature of environment, is it cold there?

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## phild01

Agree, shouldn't still be sticky.

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## r3nov8or

It should skin within up to 75 minutes, but curing takes longer. Page 3 http://www.sika-distributor.com/pdf/...x-11FC-TDS.pdf

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## r3nov8or

This stuff is great - http://www.parchem.com.au/public/pdf...eal-CR-TDS.pdf
Could be hard to find though.

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## phild01

> This stuff is great - http://www.parchem.com.au/public/pdf...eal-CR-TDS.pdf
> Could be hard to find though.

  Is this for your toilet? http://www.renovateforum.com/f194/le...toilet-116948/

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## r3nov8or

> Is this for your toilet?

   Can be used for that. Pretty much anywhere where chemicals are involved, per the table.

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## wspivak

> Hi Guys 
> Wasnt sure which forum to put this in so its landed here. 
> I ran 2 beads of sealant down a tile to do some stain tests on. (I had noticed the 11fc was still a little tacky where I sealed the shower tray to the wall / wp membrane a day or so after and was picking up dirt quite badly) I put 1 bead of 11fc and 1 bead of sikasil on the tile and left them to harden. 
> 2 days on and the sikasil is just like silicon (duh!) its hardened, looks to be fairly stain resistant. The 11FC is still sticky, its not liquid still but the surface is tacky and picks up dirt from the fingers badly..  
> Is this normal for sika 11fc? Its still in date and was from a sausage rather than a tube. If normal - How long until it has an impermeable skin? 
> Are there any alternates for 11fc that are non silicon and usable on the tile to shower tray join and the corner tile joint. 
> Steve

  Hi 5teve, 
How thick has the 11FC been applied? Basically polyurethanes should be applied at twice the width that they are deep, so if it's a 10mm joint, it should about 5mm deep.  If what's happened is something like 5mm wide and 10mm deep, then polyurethane can take much longer to cure due to the reduced surface area to product quantity that needs to dry. 
Other things that can affect curing times for polyurethanes are ambient temperatures and humidity (or a lack thereof) as polyurethanes are moisture cured. 
Alternately, you may have just run into a bad batch or one that has been incorrectly labelled. 
If you're looking for something that does the same job as a polyurethane but is generally much easier to work with and doesn't contain solvents, check out MS Polymers or Hybrid Polymer products such as Soudal T-Rex or Multibond. 
Regards

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## 5teve

Thanks Guys 
A little strange, I ran a bead again and this time skinned up pretty quickly and set well.. i'm wondering if its a bit too dry here in perth at the moment (its around 20degC but low humidity) as 11fc needs moisture. The new bead i sprayed with water just after creating it so I think this may have helped. The original bead is still very tacky. 
The new bead still seems to get a bit grubby when you rub your finger on it tho..  
I'll have a look for the parchem..  
Steve

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## 5teve

> Hi 5teve, 
> How thick has the 11FC been applied? Basically polyurethanes should be applied at twice the width that they are deep, so if it's a 10mm joint, it should about 5mm deep.  If what's happened is something like 5mm wide and 10mm deep, then polyurethane can take much longer to cure due to the reduced surface area to product quantity that needs to dry. 
> Other things that can affect curing times for polyurethanes are ambient temperatures and humidity (or a lack thereof) as polyurethanes are moisture cured. 
> Alternately, you may have just run into a bad batch or one that has been incorrectly labelled. 
> If you're looking for something that does the same job as a polyurethane but is generally much easier to work with and doesn't contain solvents, check out MS Polymers or Hybrid Polymer products such as Soudal T-Rex or Multibond. 
> Regards

  Thanks 
Its just a test bead so literally just a bead on the back of a tile about 6-8mm in size. I dont think its a bad batch as the second try it seems to be ok (see other post) and the original seal i made from the shower tray to wall membrane is fine. I wonder if being on the back of the tile, it just sucked all the moisture from the sealant / air / environment, and with me spraying the second go, solved the dryness issue. 
I'll have a look for the other sealants mentioned. 
Steve

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## r3nov8or

> Is this for your toilet? http://www.renovateforum.com/f194/le...toilet-116948/

  Oh, now I see. That 'renov8or' has the 'e' , I have the '3'  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Oh, now I see. That 'renov8or' has the 'e' , I have the '3'

  That caught me out, had a hunch things seemed odd!

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## Cuppa

I mounted some solar panels onto the roof of my vehicle using 11FC. Have used it many times before & usually allow 24 hours for it to ‘go off’. On this occasion it was during quite cold weather & I found that 24 hours was not long enough - the 11FC was still tacky to the touch & I decided it safest to leave it longer before driving the car. 48 hours saw the desired result.

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## phild01

> I mounted some solar panels onto the roof of my vehicle using 11FC. Have used it many times before & usually allow 24 hours for it to ‘go off’. On this occasion it was during quite cold weather & I found that 24 hours was not long enough - the 11FC was still tacky to the touch & I decided it safest to leave it longer before driving the car. 48 hours saw the desired result.

  Probably better to use the more expensive car body grade sikas for this type of application, think 227 is the one.

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## Cuppa

> Probably better to use the more expensive car body grade sikas for this type of application, think 227 is the one.

  Yep I went through all of that before deciding to use 11FC. 227 is the one Sika recommend, but it is much more expensive (including special primers etc) & far more difficult & messy to use. I know quite a few folk who have used 11FC for attaching solar panels to their motorhomes & caravans, many who have had them on their vehicles for a decade or more now without problem. In fact I attached panels to the roof of our (now sold) converted bus using 11FC in 2003. After 18 months travel around Australia, including many 1000’s of kms on corrugated roads they were still firmly attached (or to be more accurate the aluminium brackets to which they were bolted were). So provided the correct thickness of bead is used (use spacers) I am more than confident 11FC is up to the task.  
My current vehicle.  
I also used 11FC to attach the 4 brackets holding a 6 metre awning onto the side of the bus. During the 18 month trip - one bracket let go. I probably would use 227 for a vertical joint like that if doing it again.

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## phild01

> Yep I went through all of that before deciding to use 11FC. 227 is the one Sika recommend, but it is much more expensive (including special primers etc) & far more difficult & messy to use. I know quite a few folk who have used 11FC for attaching solar panels to their motorhomes & caravans, many who have had them on their vehicles for a decade or more now without problem. In fact I attached panels to the roof of our (now sold) converted bus using 11FC in 2003. After 18 months travel around Australia, including many 1000’s of kms on corrugated roads they were still firmly attached (or to be more accurate the aluminium brackets to which they were bolted were). So provided the correct thickness of bead is used (use spacers) I am more than confident 11FC is up to the task.

   Sounds like I could have saved some $ when I did my van's solar,  :Frown:  
....some good watts happening there!

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## Cuppa

> ....some good watts happening there!

   :Smilie:   425w into 360Ah batteries via a Redarc BCDC1240 (Solar reg/dc to dc charger combined). Set up for indefinite self sufficiency without the need to drive & with a minimum of 1 week buffer against poor solar weather. Running separate compressor fridge & freezer plus all the other usual stuff.  A fairly complex system which allows me to also charge the crank battery via solar, jump start the car from the house batteries (which are in the rear canopy) & to parallel the house batteries with the crank battery when using the winch. Also allows bypassing of the redarc unit for faster initial charging of the house batteries should they ever become more discharged than is preferable, all at the turn of a switch.  
Bus was self sufficient - didn’t need mains power during our travels at all. I tend to err on the ‘overdone’ side with solar - the bus batteries were still doing their job perfectly at almost 9 years old when we sold it having never been discharged below 12.3v & returned to float by around mid day on most days which I feel justified my choices.  There is a weight cost however.  
Apologies to OP for this off topic diversion - hopefully you have already got what you needed from the thread.

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## phild01

Great setup, well done.

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## 5teve

> 425w into 360Ah batteries via a Redarc BCDC1240 (Solar reg/dc to dc charger combined). Set up for indefinite self sufficiency without the need to drive & with a minimum of 1 week buffer against poor solar weather. Running separate compressor fridge & freezer plus all the other usual stuff.  A fairly complex system which allows me to also charge the crank battery via solar, jump start the car from the house batteries (which are in the rear canopy) & to parallel the house batteries with the crank battery when using the winch. Also allows bypassing of the redarc unit for faster initial charging of the house batteries should they ever become more discharged than is preferable, all at the turn of a switch.  
> Bus was self sufficient - didn’t need mains power during our travels at all. I tend to err on the ‘overdone’ side with solar - the bus batteries were still doing their job perfectly at almost 9 years old when we sold it having never been discharged below 12.3v & returned to float by around mid day on most days which I feel justified my choices.  There is a weight cost however.  
> Apologies to OP for this off topic diversion - hopefully you have already got what you needed from the thread.

  Always fascinated with additional stuff... and applications.. so all good.. thanks for sharing  :Smilie:   
Yep got what I need.. think it was just one of those things and not enough moisture..  
Steve

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