# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  New home concrete stumps how to?

## rileyp

I have read the Alan Staines manual on how to put them in but am a little confused :Confused:  
1 Set up hurdles and peg out stump locations *no problem here*
2 Drill holes *no problem here* 3 Pour concrete to bottom of hole to depth on plan.*problem here*
4 Place stumps in holes and aligned to string lines *problem here* 5 Backfill hole with concrete.*no problem here * My questions  :Confused:  
How is step 3 acheived in reality?
Is step 4 performed while step 3 is wet?
What is a typical depth and width used for say M and H class soil 
I understand stumps arent that great for H type soil and so would be bigger. 
Wouldnt it be easier to set up the bearers on temporary props and bolt all the stumps to the bearers then just pour each stump once? 
Any advice much appreciated!
cheers Rileyp

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## echnidna

> I have read the Alan Staines manual on how to put them in but am a little confused 
> 1 Set up hurdles and peg out stump locations *no problem here*
> 2 Drill holes *no problem here* 3 Pour concrete to bottom of hole to depth on plan.*problem here*
> 4 Place stumps in holes and aligned to string lines *problem here* 5 Backfill hole with concrete.*no problem here * My questions  
> How is step 3 acheived in reality? Shovel concrete out of a wheelbarrow into the hole 
> Is step 4 performed while step 3 is wet? Usually, 
> so you don't drop the stump in the hole you lift it in and work it around a bit until its at the correct height.  *If I'm using a timber stump* I'll level the top of the concrete pad and let it set before I put the stump in 
> What is a typical depth and width used for say M and H class soil 
> I understand stumps arent that great for H type soil and so would be bigger.  I'd need to refer to tables for that info 
> ...

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## rileyp

Thanks Bob for your fast response! Shovel concrete out of a wheelbarrow into the hole I understand how to get concrete in the hole. :Sneaktongue: 
I was more interested in how the correct level would be obtained in the hole if this was to be done for concrete stumps and let dry prior to installing the stumps if this was the method used.(drying first) I suppose a stick and measure back up to the string line would be good enough for a timber stump as a  timber stump removes the criticalness of this as it may be lopped later Sheds are sometimes built that way Is the method I proposed less accurate and only shed worthy?
Cheers rileyp

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## Canetoad

no your method works great. Not sure how you would go with concrete stumps. I have always done it with SHS columns. Why are you using concrete stumps by the way?

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## rileyp

> no your method works great. Not sure how you would go with concrete stumps. I have always done it with SHS columns. Why are you using concrete stumps by the way?

  Im not just yet but would be happy to as I've lined up a heap of stirrups that way (set in wet concrete) for my existing deck and that worked out fine.
The block has a 400 mm fall every 10 metres and rather than level the home site and do a (I know small) retaining wall on the high side and a concrete slab for which I would have to pay someone  :Frown:  I was thinking of doing a timber floor rather than concrete as I could it all by my lonesome.
Concrete stumps in Victoria are quite common and they are $5 each I believe up to 1200 long I think.
The cladding on the home will be weatherboard or simular.
cheers rileyp

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## bugsy

> Concrete stumps in Victoria are quite common and they are $5 each I believe up to 1200 long I think.
> The cladding on the home will be weatherboard or simular.
> cheers rileyp

  :0  thats cheap!
Where are you getting them from?

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## OBBob

Concrete stumps are very heavy, you may have trouble using the meathod you used for styrups.  :Smilie:   
It depends how quickly you are trying to do it. If you have a cement truck out the front and a 20 minute unload time then you are going to have trouble. But if can arrange a few helpers on mix on site you can just put the cenet in the bottom and sit the stump in, get it verticle and at the right height, brace temporoaily or back fill. They don't sink if they mix is OK. Do this with stringlines set up off your hurdles.  
Then later, hire a laser level and if any need slight adjustment you can pack the tops with sqaures of cement sheet or bitument damp-proof course.  
The main thing is to be really well prepared and think about the whol process beforehand, which is what you are doing! Everyone does it differently ... Good luck.

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## OBBob

> :0 thats cheap!
> Where are you getting them from?

  You can get them from Cope for around that in Melbourne. All based on length.

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## echnidna

> Thanks Bob for your fast response! Shovel concrete out of a wheelbarrow into the hole I understand how to get concrete in the hole.
> I was more interested in how the correct level would be obtained in the hole if this was to be done for concrete stumps and let dry prior to installing the stumps if this was the method used.(drying first) I suppose a stick and measure back up to the string line would be good enough for a timber stump as a  timber stump removes the criticalness of this as it may be lopped later Sheds are sometimes built that way Is the method I proposed less accurate and only shed worthy?
> Cheers rileyp

  I usually put some concrete in the hole, put the stump in and keep adding concrete (working it under the stump) until the top of the stump reaches a stringline. 
Sheds usually have far less stumps to contend with and its practical to stick the frame together and block it up so you can pour the concrete. 
Fitting stumps to a stringline is much faster than blocking up a bearer stump run and concreting afterwards. I used to be able to put 60 odd stumps in an afternoon. My best effort was 104 stumps to a stringline in 1 day by myself.  
I used to get a load of minimix in and go like a cut cat to get it all in under the stumps before it went off.

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## OBBob

> I used to be able to put 60 odd stumps in an afternoon. My best effort was 104 stumps to a stringline in 1 day by myself.

  That's nuts! Us mere weekend warriors are not capable of that sort of thing ...

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## bugsy

sorry to butt in on the original topic but,
do you have to fit concrete stumps into concrete?
Can you just put in a block of wood for the stump to sit on and back fill?

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## OBBob

> sorry to butt in on the original topic but,
> do you have to fit concrete stumps into concrete?
> Can you just put in a block of wood for the stump to sit on and back fill?

  All the old palces were originally just redgum stumps on a slab of red gum, so I guess you could ... but it wont last as long.

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## OBBob

> 5 Backfill hole with concrete.*no problem here*

  I stand to be corrected ... but unless you have a specific requirement or very tall stumps then you may not have to back fill with concrete. That's a lot of concrete, so may be worhth checking if soil is acceptable where you are.

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## bugsy

> All the old palces were originally just redgum stumps on a slab of red gum, so I guess you could ... but it wont last as long.

  what i am getting at is redgum stumps of 1.8 will cost somewhere like $17-$18.00. 
concrete stumps $5.00?
thats a big saving if you dont need to surround it with concrete

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## OBBob

> what i am getting at is redgum stumps of 1.8 will cost somewhere like $17-$18.00. 
> concrete stumps $5.00?
> thats a big saving if you dont need to surround it with concrete

  Yep. 
I guess just a bit more of a PIA because you can't just set and lop the top off at the right height.

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## echnidna

> sorry to butt in on the original topic but,
> do you have to fit concrete stumps into concrete?
> Can you just put in a block of wood for the stump to sit on and back fill?

  Redgum soleplate would work, you can also get precast concrete sole plates. 
But the difficulty arises that you have to dig the stump hole to a precise depth so when the stump is bedded down solid it is at the correct height. 
60 stumps a day is not rocket science just hard heavy work. 
If you use a concrete mixer on site then you can work at a leisurely pace.

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## OBBob

> 60 stumps a day is not rocket science just hard heavy work.

  When you have doen it a few time you don't have to re-check everything 10 times, that's the real saving.

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## rileyp

I was thinking of a mixer as I could work at my own pace rather than the truck but Ill only have 25- 30 stumps to do anyway and the mixer is hard work isnt it? Never actually standing before one can only assume.
And if Bob can do 60 in an arvo then I should manage 25-30 with a bit a of a sweat!
Its Colac Otway shire so Bob you may even know if backfilling with dirt is ok.

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## echnidna

Sorry dunno about Colac Shire. 
But generally speaking 6" of concrete backfill is good enough.

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## ausdesign

You would only have to backfill with concrete for bracing purposes.
100-150mm is all you need to sit the stump on to get the required bearing pressure, it's just that with wet concrete this isnt feasable to hold the stump while the mix goes off, so you end up coming up the hole more than you really need (and use extra concrete).

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## rileyp

> :0  thats cheap!
> Where are you getting them from?

  That price was the first place I rang in Geelong out of the yellow pages.
So better prices may be around!
They quoted $5 per stump for any size up to 1200 (in 100mmm increments)
and anything over 1200  $5 per metre or part thereof I think.
Ill have a looking in the phone directory if you really need to know.

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## OBBob

> I was thinking of a mixer as I could work at my own pace rather than the truck but Ill only have 25- 30 stumps to do anyway and the mixer is hard work isnt it? Never actually standing before one can only assume.
> And if Bob can do 60 in an arvo then I should manage 25-30 with a bit a of a sweat!
> Its Colac Otway shire so Bob you may even know if backfilling with dirt is ok.

  You may want to allow a few days if you haven't done it before. IMO it's just one of those thing that has a lot of levels to check and re-check. So you can waste a lot of making sure they are vertical, then that they are in line and at the right height ... then going back to make sure they haven't sunk, then checking they are still verticle ...  :Smilie:  ... but then again that's probably just me!

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## rileyp

Do you  use a 600mm level or a 300mm level or just a post level
I have seen a fencer use one of those post levels but I personally think  they are a bit crappy especaily on a redgum post as they arent exactly perfect.
How true are concrete stumps? If they are good then a post level would speed it up a bit and they are light as os more muscle for the stump locating.
Hey brain wave buy 30 post levels tape to each stump then sell them all on ebay when Im finshed lol!

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## bugsy

> Do you  use a 600mm level or a 300mm level or just a post level
> I have seen a fencer use one of those post levels but I personally think  they are a bit crappy especaily on a redgum post as they arent exactly perfect.
> How true are concrete stumps? If they are good then a post level would speed it up a bit and they are light as os more muscle for the stump locating.
> Hey brain wave buy 30 post levels tape to each stump then sell them all on ebay when Im finshed lol!

  maybe a string line would be cheaper?

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## rileyp

I know to use a string line but that wont make them vertical.Are you suggesting 2 string lines? 1 near ground and 1 near top of stumps? That still wont make them vertical in the opposite plane.
In reality I wouldnt use 30 levels I was just being Saturday night silly.
 I was thinking of using 2 string lines on each row so they are easy to make vertical in at least 1 plane and get height correct as well.
Then to get them all good in the other I could just move around with a 300mm or 600mm level till I was happy.
Oh heres another question:
would a cheap lazer level be better for height adjustment or a water level or just the top string line used to get height correct?
Im thinking a string line will sag a little in the middle over 15 or so metres or am I dreaming agian?

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## bugsy

> I know to use a string line but that wont make them vertical.Are you suggesting 2 string lines? 1 near ground and 1 near top of stumps? That still wont make them vertical in the opposite plane.
> In reality I wouldnt use 30 levels I was just being Saturday night silly.
>  I was thinking of using 2 string lines on each row so they are easy to make vertical in at least 1 plane and get height correct without a spirit level.
> Then to get them all good in the other I could just move around with a 300mm or 600mm level till I was happy.
> Oh heres another question:
> would a cheap lazer level be better for height adjustment or a water level or just the top string line used to get height correct?
> Im thinking a string line will sag a little in the middle over 15 or so metres or am I dreaming agian?

  sorry i was thinking lateral. 
you can get levels that strap onto  corners

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## rileyp

Yeah they are called fence post levels.....And they are the exact item I was talking about. I was thinking because they are so short they wouldnt be that accurate on a redgum post but on a concrete stump which is pretty true I'm thinking it would be quite good but was looking for a second opinion as I havent really used any concretes before and am unsure how true they really are.
cheers rileyp

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## OBBob

The concrete stumps are pretty good on the sides that are in the mould. The open side is a bit rough. You'd be fine with a fence level.  
I did the perimeter first and then strung string lines between the tops so that I could get all the rows in between correct. Then as I said above, I hired a laser level (you need a good one, the cheapies look crap ... the real ones are worth thousands) ... they are great and you can quickly check the tops and correct with a bit of cement sheet if required.

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## rileyp

Id be able to borrow a good laser level of the mechanical plumbers at work.not the spinning type ala metal ceiling/plasterers/builders which would be the type your speaking of but one that is self leveling and shoots a beam vertically and horizontaly.I understand this wound mean setting up for each row of posts which would create inaccuracies I suppose.
Maybe the good old water level?

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