# Forum Home Renovation Tiling  Tiling over Scyon.

## CStenhouse

Im new to this site and I'm slightly concerned at the amount of people tiling or recomending Scyon for tiling. Now using it is not a problem. Using the CORRECT APPROVED SYSTEM (yes, there is a bunch of precautions and steps) there are only a handful of approved systems, while some manufactures avoid warranting it all together. Ardex Aus have a good (pricey) system but it works. Link is below. The problem is with Scyon, if there is movement in the flooring (unavoidable) then there is know buffer between Scyon and tile install (eg cement sheet, decoupling mat, floating screed etc) they must be laid as recommended, screed where recommended and waterproofed as recommended. Otherwise your install WILL fail. Please be cautious. I would advise calling your local rep. Not the guys at tiles shops or Bunnings. Call a rep.    http://www.ardexaustralia.com/pdf/sp...al%20Scyon.pdf

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## OBBob

Interesting. I would've thought any of the methods are likely to move over time.

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## CStenhouse

All substrates move. It's about choosing the correct products to accomodate for that movement. Each product is different. We should be aiming for a long lasting install, not an install that will last only 5-7 years.

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## CStenhouse

And potentially thousands of $$ if there's a failure.

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## OBBob

Fair enough. So what's your preferred substrate? Yellow tongue and tile underlay?

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## CStenhouse

Scyon is fine. Yellow tongue and sheet is fine. Decoupling mat is fine also. Concrete is no worries as long as it's prepped correctly. But every one of these substrates has a different method and process on the tiling end of things. And Scyon has the most involved and expensive out of all of them. I would like to know what everyone on here is doing in regards to tile install over the Scyon.

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## phild01

> Scyon is fine. Yellow tongue and sheet is fine. Decoupling mat is fine also. Concrete is no worries as long as it's prepped correctly. But every one of these substrates has a different method and process on the tiling end of things. And Scyon has the most involved and expensive out of all of them. I would like to know what everyone on here is doing in regards to tile install over the Scyon.

  As mentioned in another thread, I am waterproofing and have Novatex rubberised adhesive ready, probably should have the X18 instead...don't know!

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## OBBob

Ha ha, the floor going down in my current project is Scyon. It's single storey and there's a shower base and only a single join in the Scyon sheet, so not as critical as some. I can't make your link work but Ardex and Crommelin both appear to have Scyon systems. I then envisaged gluing floor tiles over the waterproofing. I haven't yet given it any more consideration.

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## CStenhouse

my point for this thread is to make sure to use correct install methods over Scyon as your average method will fail. Ardex, Mapei and a few others have tied in with James Hardie on methods and warranties. I would be using one of them to make sure your project is backed with a warranty.

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## phild01

Do you have links to the adhesives for external Scyon?
I see Ardex say expensive epoxy preparation.  Are there less expensive alternatives?

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## CStenhouse

I know Mapei have a system too. When I get home tonight I'll look it up and post all info I can find

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## OBBob

I'd be interested in the suggestions for internal wet area Scyon. Cheers.

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## Eggman

So are we better off to use yellow tongue and tile underlay? Or maybe tile underlay over the scyon? 
I've had a read through the info sheet from Ardex and it seems like a lot of work (as you have pointed out) 
What do you recommend as a substrate Stenhouse? For bathrooms on stumps  
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## ringtail

Tile underlay on yellow tongue / red tongue or direct over floor boards has stood the test of time and has been industry standard for as long as I can remember. No need to change as far as I can see. Fads come and go and sycon is no different.

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## OBBob

I'm confused about what's so challenging? The spec at the start of the thread is for external isn't it? 
Edit: and I guess the point of the Scyon is that should the waterproofing fail, it's more likely to resist falling to bits than chipboard is.

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## CStenhouse

Hi Eggman. As I said, you can tile over Scyon. The benefit is it is more resistant to water than tradition yellow tongue/underlay method. Water proofing won't fail if done correctly but IF it does, you yellow tongue swell and crumbles, doing a lot more damage. Scyon is suppose to be much more water resistant. Note I say water resistant. No board is waterproof and if it is it is not worthy of tile. It simply means it won't deteriorate as quickly as yellow tongue and is more resistant to water damage. The ultimate method is a decoupling mat. It's a HUGE market in the USA due to freeze/thaw conditions. It basically allows for more deflection. deflection is, for example, the verticle movement on a floor. "The bounce" to put it in easy terms. Between every space between nails is a void between the yellow tongue and underlay. Your actually suppose to put adhesive underneath underlay to decrease deflection. But in my opinion in doing that, you restrict movement. The system needs to move as every building moves. The decoupling mats allow that. But it hasn't really taken off here (that's a whole other story) Scyon is fine. But as you say, there's more involved in prep AND costs. It's something that I predict, based on people of spoken to, will slowly change over the next 5-10 years.

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## Pulse

I know Davco suggested epoxy primer to me and not ultraprime, before primex came out. The help line was concerned about scyon as a substrate.  
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## CStenhouse

Internal tiling spec Bob. Requires epoxy waterproofing (wpm300 $450/$500 per unit) Which requires a chicken fed sand application to allow for grip as its a smooth surface. OR roll on wpm155 over wpm300.   http://www.ardexaustralia.com/pdf/sp...n%20Floors.pdf

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## CStenhouse

> I know Davco suggested epoxy primer to me and not ultraprime, before primex came out. The help line was concerned about scyon as a substrate.  
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  They are all concerned about Scyon. There are some (Laticrete for one, who INVENTED thinset glues in the 60's, changing the industry completely) who WILL NOT warranty installs over Scyon

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## CStenhouse

You will also see in internal tiling method that a movement/expansion joint MUST be continued through the tiling where ever a joint in the sheet is.

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## Eggman

Mm so what do reckon about tile underlay over the scyon instead of the wpm 300?   
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## CStenhouse

> Mm so what do reckon about tile underlay over the scyon instead of the wpm 300?   
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  I don't know, I haven't done it nor seen it. It would have to coincide with James Hardies warranties. I see it might work but that's a quedtion for JH. It would also defeat the purpose of using Scyon. Scyon is good in the sense it's 6mm lower when not using underlay so your step at the door isn't as high when putting carpet in

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## OBBob

> You will also see in internal tiling method that a movement/expansion joint MUST be continued through the tiling where ever a joint in the sheet is.

  That relates to an 'expansion' joint in the sheet not all the tounge and groove joints (if I read it correctly).

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## OBBob

Is there something insufficient about the Crommelin Wetite product, which is listed as suitable for Scyon.

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## CStenhouse

> That relates to an 'expansion' joint in the sheet not all the tounge and groove joints (if I read it correctly).

  " Over the movement joints formed by the alignment of the Scyon sheet ends."

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## CStenhouse

> Is there something insufficient about the Crommelin Wetite product, which is listed as suitable for Scyon.

  Refer to control joints figures 8-11.  
Only Ardex, bostik, crommelin and Davco have agreed warranties with James Hardie. Any other brand you use is not working in with James Hardie. And that is where my alarm bells go off. 
http://scyon.com.au/assets/downloads/Scyon_Secura_Interior_Flooring_Sep_15.pdf

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## OBBob

> " Over the movement joints formed by the alignment of the Scyon sheet ends."

  Yes and they are required at 5.4m. I've never had the problem of a bathroom that large. Ha ha.   :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> Refer to control joints figures 8-11.  
> Only Ardex, bostik, crommelin and Davco have agreed warranties with James Hardie. Any other brand you use is not working in with James Hardie. And that is where my alarm bells go off.  http://scyon.com.au/assets/downloads...ing_Sep_15.pdf

  OK, we'll you'd know much more than me. It's it possible it's because it's a little newer than other products? I mean those are some fairly reputable brands.

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## ringtail

> : and I guess the point of the Scyon is that should the waterproofing fail, it's more likely to resist falling to bits than chipboard is.

  
Yes but if the water proofing fails it's a total bathroom do over anyway. Full stainless steel bathroom welded in situ =D

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## OBBob

> Yes but if the water proofing fails it's a total bathroom do over anyway. Full stainless steel bathroom welded in situ =D

  All these things you can dig rather deeply into ... I haven't yet pulled out a bathroom that actually had waterproofing in the first place ... and they were only removed to modernise.  :Smilie:   
Anyway, this info is doing a good job of making us consider the products in detail, I'm just trying to get my head around the options and potential issues.   
If I understand correctly, we should be aware that using Scyon my require expansion joints at above 5.4m length (that continue all the way through the tiles), there are limited waterproof suppliers (that warrant their products on Scyon) and waterproofing may require more expensive and time-consuming preparation than other substrates.

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## OBBob

OK, so I have used Crommelin products before and was interested in their view in the context of this thread ... I took the advice of CStenhouse and gave them a call.  :Smilie:   
They recommend using their primer, PowerFlex, which appears to be a fairly straight forward paint on product. Then finish with the Wetite waterproofing membrane.  
Interestingly I got to ask a question that I've always wondered - is there any difference between Wetite (the commercial product) and the Shower Waterproofing Membrane (retail - sold in hardware stores). They told me it's the same product just branded for retail or commercial.

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## phild01

> Interestingly I got to ask a question that I've always wondered - is there any difference between Wetite (the commercial product) and the Shower Waterproofing Membrane (retail - sold in hardware stores). They told me it's the same product just branded for retail or commercial.

  Same thing I was told some time back as well, so I avoided Bunnings and got it far cheaper shipped from down your way.  Can't remember where now.

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## ringtail

> All these things you can dig rather deeply into ... I haven't yet pulled out a bathroom that actually had waterproofing in the first place ... and they were only removed to modernise.   
> .

  Yep, same here. I have a bathroom renno to do at my folks house soon. No waterproofing, slight water damage to sheet flooring from dodgy waste. Luckily it's a 50's hardwood house. Absolutely horrific work done by licenced plumber. Floor joists cut clean through and left swinging in the breeze - by the plumber. Tiles falling off the wall - done by the plumber. The worst pipe work I've ever seen. Plenty to fix. No way will I be using sycon.

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## OBBob

Meh, who needs floor joists... It's proven in another thread that yellow tongue can hold up load bearing walls!   :Biggrin:   
So what's your concern with Scyon? Just that YT and underlay has a longer track record?

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## ringtail

Yep basically. If done properly YT and underlay is totally fine. Been done for years and will continue to be done for years to come. I don't like change or trends  :Tongue:  . Besides, I want to do something totally different like full epoxy floor or vinyl or rubber. Dunno, still researching. Anything but tiles in the shower  :Biggrin:  - but I don't like change or trends. Unless they're an improvement.

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## CStenhouse

> OK, so I have used Crommelin products before and was interested in their view in the context of this thread ... I took the advice of CStenhouse and gave them a call.   
> They recommend using their primer, PowerFlex, which appears to be a fairly straight forward paint on product. Then finish with the Wetite waterproofing membrane.  
> Interestingly I got to ask a question that I've always wondered - is there any difference between Wetite (the commercial product) and the Shower Waterproofing Membrane (retail - sold in hardware stores). They told me it's the same product just branded for retail or commercial.

  The primer says it's an "adhesion promoter for hard to stick substrates" I can look into it further if you like. I speak to my mate at Ardex on Sunday so I'll see what she says.

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## CStenhouse

> OK, we'll you'd know much more than me. It's it possible it's because it's a little newer than other products? I mean those are some fairly reputable brands.

  Definitely. When I first used it I had no idea how to go about it. Made calls, every told me no don't tile it, some gave me solutions, other didn't sound convincing. The one thing that stuck out for me was when a rep said "it hasn't been around long enough to see if it tests the time of a builders warranty" THAT alone makes me wonder. 7 years is a builders warranty he gives (correct me if wrong) 7 years really isn't much. Anyway. I just posted this so every one can approach Scyon with a little more knowledge, especially in terms of warranties 
Have a good weekend!

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## OBBob

> Definitely. When I first used it I had no idea how to go about it. Made calls, every told me no don't tile it, some gave me solutions, other didn't sound convincing. The one thing that stuck out for me was when a rep said "it hasn't been around long enough to see if it tests the time of a builders warranty" THAT alone makes me wonder. 7 years is a builders warranty he gives (correct me if wrong) 7 years really isn't much. Anyway. I just posted this so every one can approach Scyon with a little more knowledge, especially in terms of warranties 
> Have a good weekend!

  Yeah, warranty is usually about 7 years. I think this is a great discussion, I'm not having a go at you... just trying to understand.   :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> Im new to this site and I'm slightly concerned at the amount of people tiling or recomending Scyon for tiling. Now using it is not a problem. Using the CORRECT APPROVED SYSTEM (yes, there is a bunch of precautions and steps) there are only a handful of approved systems, while some manufactures avoid warranting it all together. Ardex Aus have a good (pricey) system but it works. Link is below. The problem is with Scyon, if there is movement in the flooring (unavoidable) then there is know buffer between Scyon and tile install (eg cement sheet, decoupling mat, floating screed etc) they must be laid as recommended, screed where recommended and waterproofed as recommended. Otherwise your install WILL fail. Please be cautious. I would advise calling your local rep. Not the guys at tiles shops or Bunnings. Call a rep.    http://www.ardexaustralia.com/pdf/sp...al%20Scyon.pdf

  I'm curious as to what you mean by "The problem is with Scyon, if there is movement in the flooring  (unavoidable) " Why would this product "unavoidably move" as you say.  
If these types of products are fixed as per manufacturer's specifications there is no reason for them to move. 
I personally use DURAFLOOR as I think it's a better product than Scyon Secura, for one big reason, Scyon comes in Interior and Exterior grade's DURAFLOOR only comes in one grade suitable for Interior or Exterior, plus DURAFLOOR is more solid than Scyon, we always pre drilling and screw it down, just as we did with traditional compressed, DURAFLOOR is made from Portland cement, finely ground silica, cellulose fibres and water, no black magic in there. 
If you can explain how you envisage these flooring products to move that would be great, these products are not only glued to the joists, they are screwed or nailed every 200mm to all joists.
I'm not sure if you have ever tried to remove a product such as this which has a screw in it every 200mm, with the addition of construction adhesive, but I can guarantee you, IT AINT MOVING, even a bit of dodgy Yellow Tongue wont move when fixed in a similar method. 
I don't know if your a Tiler, or perhaps you work for Ardex and are flogging their product as the only solution over all other brands, I would like you to explain what your involvement in using this product is in a professional manner, I'm not having a go at you, just want to know what your involvement with this product is. 
I have been using these products for many years, our tilers don't use decoupling mats or any other elaborate systems you refer to, and we have not had one single call back for any issues. 
You refer to expansion joints for these products as being some strange phenomena, expansion joints in tiled floors have existed forever, even traditional compressed fibro sheeting requires expansion joints all the way to the top of the tiles every 5m, the expansion joint is a 5mm wide gap, with polyurethane sealant over foam backing rod. 
Scyon and DURAFLOOR require expansion joints every 3.6, 4.5 or 4.8m depending on sheet layout and brand,

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## CStenhouse

> I'm curious as to what you mean by "The problem is with Scyon, if there is movement in the flooring  (unavoidable) " Why would this product "unavoidably move" as you say.  
> If these types of products are fixed as per manufacturer's specifications there is no reason for them to move. 
> I personally use DURAFLOOR as I think it's a better product than Scyon Secura, for one big reason, Scyon comes in Interior and Exterior grade's DURAFLOOR only comes in one grade suitable for Interior or Exterior, plus DURAFLOOR is more solid than Scyon, we always pre drilling and screw it down, just as we did with traditional compressed, DURAFLOOR is made from Portland cement, finely ground silica, cellulose fibres and water, no black magic in there. 
> If you can explain how you envisage these flooring products to move that would be great, these products are not only glued to the joists, they are screwed or nailed every 200mm to all joists.
> I'm not sure if you have ever tried to remove a product such as this which has a screw in it every 200mm, with the addition of construction adhesive, but I can guarantee you, IT AINT MOVING, even a bit of dodgy Yellow Tongue wont move when fixed in a similar method. 
> I don't know if your a Tiler, or perhaps you work for Ardex and are flogging their product as the only solution over all other brands, I would like you to explain what your involvement in using this product is in a professional manner, I'm not having a go at you, just want to know what your involvement with this product is. 
> I have been using these products for many years, our tilers don't use decoupling mats or any other elaborate systems you refer to, and we have not had one single call back for any issues. 
> You refer to expansion joints for these products as being some strange phenomena, expansion joints in tiled floors have existed forever, even traditional compressed fibro sheeting requires expansion joints all the way to the top of the tiles every 5m, the expansion joint is a 5mm wide gap, with polyurethane sealant over foam backing rod. 
> Scyon and DURAFLOOR require expansion joints every 3.6, 4.5 or 4.8m depending on sheet layout and brand,

  I'm a tiler for starters. I do not work for Ardex. I don't actually like nor use Ardex, not for product reasons but for other reasons. All substrates move. You sound pretty smart, you should know that. The fact that you said expansion joints have been around for forever shows that you know that. Don't install an expansion joint then you risk cracked tiles, popping, drummy tiles, tenting the list goes on. ALL SUBSTRATES MOVE. All adhesives and waterproofing materials allow for that movement. Expansion joints I know about them. MY POINT IS in seeing everyone on here recommend Scyon to DIY'ers. And I'll bet my left hand that correct procedures aren't being followed if a DIY'er is also tiling. I've seen jobs where there hasn't been an expansion joint in the sheets (minimum 6mm) I've had licensed waterproofers butt heads with tilers because they disagree on methods due to failures they've come across. The amount of CONCERN across the board is there. And if your doing it correctly what are you worrying about? If your doing the methods recommended then you'll be fine, as I stated previously in this thread. My concern was who is actually doing the correct method. Decoupling mats aren't used here, I said that. I said they're used in the US 95% of the time as opposed to the methods we use here. And if a failure occurs and you aren't doing the correct method that goes with the JH warranty, then your not covered for ANYTHING. JH won't pay any potential damages, adhesive companies won't and insurance won't.

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## phild01

Not seeing the issue with people on here recommending Scyon or similar.  When an area exceeds a certain size, the question of expansion joints should naturally come into question with any building product.  Anyone working with an unfamiliar product should realise the investment being made, and consult the recommended manufacturers instructions.
  Only bad builders make assumptions.

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## METRIX

> I'm a tiler for starters. I do not work for Ardex. I don't actually like nor use Ardex, not for product reasons but for other reasons. All substrates move. You sound pretty smart, you should know that. The fact that you said expansion joints have been around for forever shows that you know that. Don't install an expansion joint then you risk cracked tiles, popping, drummy tiles, tenting the list goes on. ALL SUBSTRATES MOVE. All adhesives and waterproofing materials allow for that movement. Expansion joints I know about them. MY POINT IS in seeing everyone on here recommend Scyon to DIY'ers. And I'll bet my left hand that correct procedures aren't being followed if a DIY'er is also tiling. I've seen jobs where there hasn't been an expansion joint in the sheets (minimum 6mm) I've had licensed waterproofers butt heads with tilers because they disagree on methods due to failures they've come across. The amount of CONCERN across the board is there. And if your doing it correctly what are you worrying about? If your doing the methods recommended then you'll be fine, as I stated previously in this thread. My concern was who is actually doing the correct method. Decoupling mats aren't used here, I said that. I said they're used in the US 95% of the time as opposed to the methods we use here. And if a failure occurs and you aren't doing the correct method that goes with the JH warranty, then your not covered for ANYTHING. JH won't pay any potential damages, adhesive companies won't and insurance won't.

  There is nothing wrong with the product, and there is no problem recommending it to be used for professional or DIY use, like any building product, there is a set of Technical information released by the manufacturer which states parameters such as maximum allowable spans, distances for expansions, fixing requirements, compatibility with other products etc etc. 
All the DIY'R or professional needs to do is download this information and read it, after reading the info like any product if you don't understand something simply call the manufacturer to clarify. 
Yes this product does get recommended on here as it's a far superior product to using shyt Yellow tongue in Wet areas.
Reading your posts even I'm unsure what your concern is, is it that the DIY is not using expansion joints, is it they are not preparing the surface correctly, not using the correct primers, incorrect waterproof compounds ??? 
In regards to expansion joints, the minimum distance one of these products requires an expansion join is 3.6m, with most being 4.5m, considering your average bathroom is probably 2m x 3m, with larger bathrooms being around 3m x 3m the expansion is not an issue as the rooms are under the minimum requirements. 
You seem to think I'm worried about using this product, all I can answer is, I am not worried, I have no problems using these modern alternatives to traditional compressed, and I have not had any issues using them.
You appear to be concerned about the DIY doing the wrong thing, it would be beneficial for them if you could list out in point form what they should be doing to ensure a long term result is achieved. 
It's great you seem to want to help others to not do the wrong thing, but it's more helpful to list out what someone should be doing rather than scaring them into thinking they have done the wrong thing.

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## METRIX

> I'm a tiler for starters. 
> MY POINT IS in seeing everyone on here recommend Scyon to DIY'ers. And I'll bet my left hand that correct procedures aren't being followed if a DIY'er is also tiling. 
> My concern was who is actually doing the correct method. 
> I said they're used in the US 95% of the time as opposed to the methods we use here. 
> if a failure occurs and you aren't doing the correct method

  
How about you help out the DIY'R and put a simple guide on how to do the "correct method" you mention above, nothing fancy just some simple bullet points is all that's required.
This would really help the DIY'R if they choose to Scyon over other products. 
As your a Tiler, you know this "correct" method your referring to, how about you share this information, after all that's the idea of these forums.

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## METRIX

Just for everyone's info, I contacted Technical Support at PAREX group, asked specifically about tiling over Scyon or DURAFLOOR, if they recommend it and what DAVCO products to use, reply was of course you can, example asked for was wet area over Scyon and DURAFLOOR..  *Step 1:* Use PrimeX to prepare the Scyon or DURAFLOOR PrimeX - Multipurpose Primer | Davco  *Step 2:* Use K10 Plus waterproofer K10 Plus - Waterproofing Membrane | Davco  *Step 3*: Use SMP EVO Adhesive  SMP Evo - Tile Adhesive for Stone, Marble & Porcelain | Davco 
None of the above products are any more expensive than other brands, and there is no black magic for using these products. 
Of course if your installing Scyon or DURAFLOOR, follow the manufacturers installation recommendations, same as any other product you would use, observe control joint recommendations if appropriate for your situation.
If in doubt of your situation call the technical support for the products you want to use, cost nothing and they are very helpful.  http://www.jameshardie.com.au/upload...ber%202015.pdf  http://scyon.com.au/assets/downloads...-_Feb_2016.pdf  http://www.bgcinnovadesign.com.au/si...20brochure.pdf

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## webtubbs

I assume that applies to Constructafloor too? I used Primex and K10, but a different Davco cement based adhesive (can't  remember exactly what it was called) due to it's compatability with K10. 
I've been following this thread since the start, but it's comforting now to know that what I've done isn't as disastrous as was first made out.

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## OBBob

As commented above Crommelin also told me their system was suitable. Oh well thus thread has made me reread all the installation manuals at least.   :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> I assume that applies to Constructafloor too? I used Primex and K10, but a different Davco cement based adhesive (can't  remember exactly what it was called) due to it's compatability with K10. 
> I've been following this thread since the start, but it's comforting now to know that what I've done isn't as disastrous as was first made out.

  Probably the same, its Cemintel's version of the same product, PrimeX has been designed for these Non porus materials such as Scyon.
They recommended SMP EVO as it's an advanced commercial glue, basically designed to stick to anything. 
If you used the above products from Davco, not knowing what glue you used is the only difference, but the guy said any glue they make would work fine, he just said EVO is an advanced product and recommended this one. 
As you have been following this thread you will notice, I don't like when information is given as gospel without any real evidence to prove why, if your going to give information like your a Subject Matter Expert back it up and explain in detail what to or not to do, people get concerned they have done the wrong thing when fuzzy info is given out.

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## METRIX

> As commented above Crommelin also told me their system was suitable. Oh well thus thread has made me reread all the installation manuals at least.

  And rightly so, these companies spend a lot of money on R&D, they won't have their product being incompatible to these newer flooring systems because nobody will buy their product.

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## Pulse

Metrix, I thought some of the comments were fair, when scyon first came out and before primex, Davco made me use epoxy primer and told me they were worried about conventional primers due to low porosity, so thanks for speaking to them and getting us up to date details. 
cheers Pulse  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## METRIX

Scyon and equivalents have been out for years, simple solutions to the product differences have also been available for a while, the information given was interpreted by many as there is currently only very expensive systems out there which should be used and every other system is faltered, which is incorrect. 
All this does is scare people into thinking they have done the wrong thing and their going to experience problems, I'm all about sharing information and helping out the punters, but not telling the whole story only causes confusion and doubt.

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## Eggman

> Scyon and equivalents have been out for years, simple solutions to the product differences have also been available for a while, the information given was interpreted by many as there is currently only very expensive systems out there which should be used and every other system is faltered, which is incorrect. 
> All this does is scare people into thinking they have done the wrong thing and their going to experience problems, I'm all about sharing information and helping out the punters, but not telling the whole story only causes confusion and doubt.

  Either way cheers Stenhouse for bringing up the topic👍 
And cheers metrix for the clarification👍

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## autogenous

Scyon is a CFC (compressed fibre sheet) based product is it not? 
Give me that over chipboard any day. Didn't think chipboard was allowed in wet areas. 
Scyon is being used as a roofing sheet under 1 degree pitch rooves 
Any screed over these products I would fibreglass over the screed as a precautionary measure    

> I'm confused about what's so challenging? The spec at the start of the thread is for external isn't it? 
> Edit: and I guess the point of the Scyon is that should the waterproofing fail, it's more likely to resist falling to bits than chipboard is.

   

> They are all concerned about Scyon. There are some (Laticrete for one, who INVENTED thinset glues in the 60's, changing the industry completely) who WILL NOT warranty installs over Scyon

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