# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  wtf, Intruder Pyschology 101 - anyone?

## toooldforthis

Had a break in.
nothing taken.
just some tools unpacked from a locker
and a bit of harmless graffiti on the floor:  
no real expensive tools laying around the reno
but *a lot* - hammers, jimmy bars, clamps, spirit levels...
quite a few ladders. one expensive long extension. 
couple of wheelbarrows that may have been useful for a getaway  :Smilie:  
I might think I disturbed them with my arrival except for ... this is not the first time.
the other time they just left the window open, otherwise I would have been none the wiser someone had been inside. 
could be kids looking for grog or money, but the place is obviously not occupied. 
Or am I just getting a better class of intruder? you know, kinda thoughtful  :Smilie:  
Certainly get a better class of graffiti, this is what was done to the derelict swimming pool: 
they could have graffitid the lovely stone wall that the pool is constructed from.  
I do get a lot of sticky beaks cause the block backs onto the national park and there is a walk/bike trail there that the house can be seen from.
From time to time evidence of trespassers, empty beer bottles around the pool etc, but usually no harm done. 
But what's with this _"I was here when you weren't"_ jiving?

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## Bros

Are you saving on fill and going to use the rubbish to fill the pool in?

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## toooldforthis

> Are you saving on fill and going to use the rubbish to fill the pool in?

  that's some of what come out.
plenty left.

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## OBBob

Sounds like kids just finding somewhere exciting to hang out.  
You could always put something in to see what's going on.   http://www.jaycar.com.au/CCTV-%26-Su...#39;s/p/QC8027

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## toooldforthis

> Sounds like kids just finding somewhere exciting to hang out.

  don't think so
they would have mucked up the place more?
my gut feel is it is someone older   

> You could always put something in to see what's going on.   Motion Sensor Camera recorder with 38 IR LED's | Jaycar Electronics

  that's an idea, thanks
battery too - cause no power at house.

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## Smurf

They painted fish on the pool. Interesting. 
Most ridiculous theft I've ever seen was about 20 years ago on a fairly busy road. Man smashed the window of a parked car, took a pack of cigarettes out, took one smoke out of the pack and lit it, put the pack and lighter back on the dashboard and continued walking. Seriously. 
Took me a while to comprehend what I'd just seen as that seemed truly absurd. Smokes were still pretty cheap back then and this was in town so no shortage of shops selling them. Value of the theft would have been 15c or so at the time.

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## toooldforthis

> They painted fish on the pool. Interesting.

  yep.
and they did it with a stencil, so came prepared.   

> Most ridiculous theft I've ever seen was about 20 years ago on a fairly busy road. Man smashed the window of a parked car, took a pack of cigarettes out, took one smoke out of the pack and lit it, put the pack and lighter back on the dashboard and continued walking. Seriously. 
> Took me a while to comprehend what I'd just seen as that seemed truly absurd. Smokes were still pretty cheap back then and this was in town so no shortage of shops selling them. Value of the theft would have been 15c or so at the time.

  probably knew the car owner, someone who knocked him back when he tried to cadge one  :Smilie:

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## SilentButDeadly

I remember when someone tried to 'borrow' my Lada Niva to get home from the pub...then realised that Russian quarter vent windows were not typical of the time. The evidence suggested that old mate was stuck there for 'quite some time'. It was parked next to my Series 3 Land Rover too...

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## piscean

> Sounds like kids just finding somewhere exciting to hang out.

  Agree with OBBob, when break ins make no sense, it's usually kids. A lot of it I think is just the thrill, and they'll look around and steal anything of obvious value to them, like money or smokes. They wouldn't usually trash the place either. The stencilled fish is interesting, maybe someone experimenting with a spray can of paint, and the arrow is like, what do I paint? eh, I'll do an arrow. There's no rhyme or reason to it because it was probably a spontaneous decision by kids to do a "break in". Probably gives them a cool story to tell to their friends at school.

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## OBBob

> I remember when someone tried to 'borrow' my Lada Niva to get home from the pub...then realised that Russian quarter vent windows were not typical of the time. The evidence suggested that old mate was stuck there for 'quite some time'. It was parked next to my Series 3 Land Rover too...

  Made for Siberia not suburbia.   :Biggrin:

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## toooldforthis

since I first posted this I chained the "gate" and so they came back and had another go ...   
not sure if they squeezed through the opening or not. 
at first I hadn't noticed anything missing but since then found a big and small axe missing. so not sure if that was on the first or second visitation. 
anyway, I called in late yesterday on the way past and I have had another trespass at the "pool" 
a couple of square metres of the pool floor has been cleared of debris/green waste.  
now, wtf I thought.
a neighbour wanting some mulch?
someone trawling for lost artefacts? 
spoke to my neighbour who said he saw nothing on Saturday, and no, he didn't want any compost for his new tomato patch. 
on reflection I am wondering if it wasn't graffiti man, clearing a palate to add to his fish?

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## OBBob

Video camera...

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## toooldforthis

just ordered some of these off flea bay

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## OBBob

> just ordered some of these off flea bay

  Edging closer...

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## toooldforthis

> Edging closer...

  yeah  :Smilie:  
spoke to neighbours who said in their experience the recordings they had done were worthless - real crims wear balaclavas etc, otherwise they are kids and the cops can do nothing much. 
but I did check out the jaycar cameras - sales staff said, _No, Nothing like that_.
I looked on the shelves and said _What's this then?_ battery operated; records on card; but seems pretty useless (low res, short record time) and I would need to climb the tree to see if it recorded anything.
jaycar stuff gets terrible reviews too. 
might look into some better gear since I sorted my underground power and I now have power to a shed and 2 gpos at house, tho both are a long way from boundaries. 
As mentioned I have started planting prickly natives on the boundary. 
 And digging post holes in the granite with a view to a better fence - tho council regs don't allow anything really useful. 
On this note I wanted a gate so I could access national park too, which is then the weak leak in a fence line that isn't easily climbable (if I ignore regs) but today I went exploring and might be able to develop a secret trail to the park from a side boundary - someone would find it if they went scrambling over the scree but it might be more discreet. Fencing that side boundary is impossible - I should take a photo one day... this gives you an idea:

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## Bros

Do you have mobile phone coverage there?

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## toooldforthis

> Do you have mobile phone coverage there?

  yes.
bit flakey but seems to have improved. 
I have started to read up on IP cameras if that is where you are going. unfortunately my phone is a Windows Phone so few/no apps - but could change fones I guess 
or are you talking motion sensor activated drone  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

> yes.
> bit flakey but seems to have improved. 
> I have started to read up on IP cameras if that is where you are going. unfortunately my phone is a Windows Phone so few/no apps - but could change fones I guess 
> or are you talking motion sensor activated drone

  The phone probably doesn't matter too much ... just the hardware at the site end. And I wasn't particularly talking about trying to capture admissible evidence ... more just to get an idea of what's going on.

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## Bros

> yes.
> bit flakey but seems to have improved. 
> I have started to read up on IP cameras if that is where you are going. unfortunately my phone is a Windows Phone so few/no apps - but could change fones I guess 
> or are you talking motion sensor activated drone

  I have set up a couple of IP cameras inside a network to send email photos when it detects movement. Now the photos are not crash hot as they are only about 3 megapixles and at distance it can be hard to reconize faces but it will give you some idea as to what is going on. I cant see why it wont work with a wireless router and a pre paid SIM card. the advantage is it get the photos out before the low life sees the camera and destroys it.
I set one up a while ago and I could not figure out why is was sending photos when I could not see anything. One photo provided the clue as it caught a part of a wing turned out to be a crow that sat on the camera and when he flew off the camera activated but never caught his as he was in the very edge of the window.

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## toooldforthis

> I have set up a couple of IP cameras inside a network to send email photos when it detects movement. Now the photos are not crash hot as they are only about 3 megapixles and at distance it can be hard to reconize faces but it will give you some idea as to what is going on. I cant see why it wont work with a wireless router and a pre paid SIM card. the advantage is it get the photos out before the low life sees the camera and destroys it.
> I set one up a while ago and I could not figure out why is was sending photos when I could not see anything. One photo provided the clue as it caught a part of a wing turned out to be a crow that sat on the camera and when he flew off the camera activated but never caught his as he was in the very edge of the window.

  hah, could be crows! BIG crows.
or roos kicking the gate in. not sure how they got out of the pool tho. 
think I know what is going on...  the really annoying ones:  kids find empty house - woohoohave a look see, nah what's a spirit level? or a big extension ladder? oh, axes - yup, will take them.spray a bit of paint around, why nottell big brotherbig brother visits; finds bigger chain on gate; tries bigger footwill come back with that axe kid brother tookoh, a new shed, wonder what's in there?   the why not's:  oh lookie an old pool with city viewslet's come back at sunset and sink a few beersoh, yeah, we carried the beers in but no need to cart out the empties   the artiste:  oh lookie an old poolhmmmcomes back with stencil and paints fish on pool wallhmmmcomes back and "cleans" bottom of pool down to concrete ready for work of artgets disturbedp1sses 0ff... wonder what it was going to be? maybe a treasure chest on the sea floor?  
as for cameras.
yeah the battery stand alone jaycar is not much use. if the culprits see them they will smash em.
so need to get something decent to identify culprits so they can get a visit and get deterred and word spread.
me knowing what's going on isn't going to help deter them. 
not sure what's out there yet. wired cameras would be tricky for some areas, so might look at wireless etc.
sounds like a project  :Cool:

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## David.Elliott

Or... get yourself one of these...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0ZAGOuaqg

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## Marc

Aldi is selling a surveillance kit, I think 4 cameras,  for under $200

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## toooldforthis

> Or... get yourself one of these...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L0ZAGOuaqg

  can I mount that to a motion sensored drone?

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## toooldforthis

> Aldi is selling a surveillance kit, I think 4 cameras,  for under $200

  aldi have started to open stores in WA but nothing nearer than 10 or 12kms

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## phild01

> aldi have started to open stores in WA but nothing nearer than 10 or 12kms

   That's a lot closer than what Masters had opened here!

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## David.Elliott

It's already radar controlled, just plug and play!

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## Marc

I am thinking something like this remote controlled. Loaded with rock salt of course ...  :Smilie:

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## toooldforthis

you need council permission for sea containers, otherwise all go.

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## Bigboboz

I thought you didn't have power? Really limits options... 
We had a Brinno time lapse camera to document our reno (was very lax on the documenting part) which was ok.  Runs on battery but quality isn't great but will let you see what's going on, perhaps who and what time they visit.  Will obviously have to be hidden as you note so it doesn't get stolen or broken.

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## Bros

If you put the sign up you need two camera's. Where I live the railway had trouble with people destroying a camera that watches over a rail crossing so they made sure the camera was obvious but they also had a camera that wasn't visible to watch the first camera. When they find the first camera they will be satisfied and not look for the second. 
For a good quality camera that will show faces you will pay a lot of money and you need to watch and use optical zoom. 
 Don't be mislead by the enhanced photos on TV detective programs as you cant put pixels where there are none.

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## toooldforthis

I only had power to the consumer pole at the bottom of the property. 
Just recently built a shed at bottom of property and decided, after to&fro, to run underground power to that. But that is no closer than 35m to boundary, and 50m to house.
The house used to have power but it was disconnected years ago due to being unsafe (indian rubber etc); but while sparkie was doing shed I got him to test underground wiring to house and put in a gpo in the old fuse box there. So have power at house but that is still 12-15m from boundary. Rear boundary is 80m.
So I could have powered cameras/dvr some where; and maybe wireless cameras elsewhere? dunno enuff about em yet. 
had thought of the two camera idea - neighbour gave me a dummy camera which I have mounted on shed. a few of those might decoy the real ones?
and yeah, I am suspicious of the quality and usefulness of the images they provide.
a better rear fence will be a start, but not a total solution, but still working my way thru the issues there - council regs; neighbouring fences; and digging holes in the granite  :Doh:  
this is what abuts one corner of the property - don't think anyone is coming in thru there atm; the other corner is a walk in the park - literally.

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## toooldforthis

doesn't look like this thread will get locked cause of being unattended for 12 months  :Confused:  
got there at 2pm today to find two smashed doors and a smashed gate
store room ransacked, two locked filing cabinets busted open.
these are under the house - tho you can get into the house via no floor in old bathroom     
went to check back of house and found, what I think is, all the gear stacked neatly for their vehicle arrival     
went to check shed at bottom of property and found a wheelie bin hidden behind it full of my gear.   
But what I really want to know is why they didn't bother with my 40yr old+ jigsaw?
I mean to say!   
but there was a couple of things still in the store room including an extension ladder which maybe they thought too big for their vehicle? but more likely I disturbed them. 
so, either I disturbed them and they took off through the bush
and their vehicle was parked down on the street somewhere watching, ready to rock up when ready to load,
or? 
cops might come tomorrow...

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## phild01

No good tooold.
Are electric booby traps illegal! 
(BTW, only 8 months since last post).

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## Bros

The're going to keep coming back to get what you have replaced. You are going to have to get some camera's to catch them.

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## DavoSyd

> No good tooold.

  that sucks!  :No:    

> Are electric booby traps illegal!

  well, since you asked, now you will know (for NSW):  CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 49 Setting trap etc   

> *CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 49*  *49 Setting trap etc*(1) Any person who:(a) places or sets, or causes to be placed or set, any trap, device or thing (whether its nature be electronic, electric, mechanical, chemical or otherwise) capable of destroying human life or inflicting grievous bodily harm on any person, or(b) knowingly permits any such trap, device or thing to continue to be placed or set,with intent to inflict grievous bodily harm shall be liable to imprisonment for five years.(2) Nothing in subsection (1) shall extend to any gin or trap, placed with the intention of destroying vermin, or to any trap, device or thing placed in a dwelling-house for the protection thereof.

  i.e. set 'vermin' traps, and you will be ok to go...

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## mudbrick

I'm guessing you didn't disturb them, they just stashed the stuff there to pickup later.
It is weird though, how their sad decrepit minds work I don't know. Be on the lookout for 
bums, it looks like a bum thing to do to me.

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## OBBob

Nice jigsaw.

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## Uncle Bob

TOFT, I guess you haven't seen my rants about taking photo's with iPhones/pads. (Landscape with right thumb on the shutter button).

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## toooldforthis

> that sucks!  
> well, since you asked, now you will know (for NSW):  CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 49 Setting trap etc 
> i.e. set 'vermin' traps, and you will be ok to go...

  forensics said shame they didn't leave some blood.
too dusty for prints. 
they reckon desperate tradies judging by some of the stuff they had ready to load - tins of paint, nails etc besides ladders etc
and were probably there when I rocked up with a ute/trailer parked down the road (also acting as lookout) - otherwise I would have blocked them in on the drive
given the wheelie bin was hidden behind the shed, 50m from the house, it sounds like shed was next. 
this was all about 2pm yesterday. no sign of their return as yet.

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## SlowMick

that's just crap.  what do the cops think - the tradies are going to pinch all your stuff and then leave a flyer in the letter box showcasing their cheap rates for odd jobs (materials supplied)?

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## toooldforthis

> that's just crap.  what do the cops think - the tradies are going to pinch all your stuff and then leave a flyer in the letter box showcasing their cheap rates for odd jobs (materials supplied)?

  some of the crap ones who have trouble getting work are struggling now cause Perth is in a downturn.
one local "renovation" guy who I had quote on some work a while back (and I decided was dodgy) recently got jailed for running a drug "lab" under his house - I better go check if he just got out??

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## johnc

We had two break-ins in quick succession, on the first a glass rear door was smashed to pieces and nothing taken. Three days after it was replaced another break-in with a hole smashed through the laminated glass again nothing taken but a nose print left behind on the brand new glass. The police got a DNA match off the nose print, the offender pleaded guilty to both break-ins. Moral keep the windows clean. Our bloke was a druggie who was probably quite happy to go back inside.

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## toooldforthis

> We had two break-ins in quick succession, on the first a glass rear door was smashed to pieces and nothing taken. Three days after it was replaced another break-in with a hole smashed through the laminated glass again nothing taken but a nose print left behind on the brand new glass. The police got a DNA match off the nose print, the offender pleaded guilty to both break-ins. Moral keep the windows clean. Our bloke was a druggie who was probably quite happy to go back inside.

  wtf, nose prints  :Exclaim:  
neighbour got done too. he was away on hols.
had a house sitter who was out walking the dog.
she wasn't even aware his shed got emptied.
they were probably loading his stuff while stacking mine.
he came back today.

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## toooldforthis

down the demolition yard today scrounging and they said someone stole their security cameras  :Rolleyes: 
but the recorder was locked away inside so they got a mug shot  :Cool: 
one has to think they were planning to get inside and find the recorder too?  :Doh:

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## David.Elliott

We've lost two at work! now they are in little steel boxes screwed to the wall...

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## toooldforthis

> We've lost two at work! now they are in little steel boxes screwed to the wall...

  your bird boxes would have looked nicer  :Smilie:

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## toooldforthis

Since the last post I have had two more trespassers (at least). With one attempted break in.
How do i know?
Have a few cameras up. Need more.
Cops informed.
Around the time neighbour and I got done a nearby suburb had a  break in where the owner came home and they beat him up for his trouble.
He identified the make of car, plates covered.
Today the same vehicle was seen cruising my suburb with plates covered. 
In the middle of the day.
Cheeky bastards

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## phild01

What cameras you got?

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## Marc

Leave the door unlocked and a lovely cake and a bottle of wine with a few sleeping pills inside. That would give the cops time to get them. 
Actually I first thought of rat poison but ... well valium will do.

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## toooldforthis

> What cameras you got?

  https://www.jaycar.com.au/motion-sen...led-s/p/QC8027  • Operation: Day/Night(24hours), Day (Colour)/Night (Black/White)
• Image Sensor: 5MP Colour CMOS sensor
• Picture Resolution: 8MP max
• Video Resolution: 1280 x 720(20fps) with Audio
• Lens: 50° Field of View 
• IP Rating: IP66
• IR Range: Up to 9m
• IR Illumination: 40 IR Emitters
• Time Lapse: 5 - 600 seconds programmable
• Delay Time: 1 - 600 seconds programmable
• Stamping: Date/Time stamped on still image/video
• User Interface: Bottom control panel with LCD Display
• External Memory: SD-card up to 32GB
• Ports: TV Out, USB, SD Card, 6V DC 
• Video output: PAL, NTSC
• Power Supply: 4 x C cells or 6VDC (not included)
• Dimensions 140(H) x 75(Dia)mm
• Weight: 280g 
These are what I decided on during the last bout of research.
made the mistake of looking at whirlpool for advice. people can make life confusing. 
having no power where I want to put them narrowed the field a lot
wifi, internet, record to device all too hard - and as it turns out at the major break-in they broke open the locked cabinet where the recording device would have been.
these record to a SD card.
once a week I climb the tree, check batteries, and swap SD card, download pics to tablet, and use that SD card for next camera.
works for me.
night vision wasn't that great on first mug shots so I have tried to improve pic quality to see how that goes.
also changed some to video rec.
the tricky bit is finding a spot that gets a good pic without too many false triggers but the camera isn't obvious to them. 
am open to buying some better ones if anyone has any suggestions.     

> Leave the door unlocked and a lovely cake and a bottle of wine with a few sleeping pills inside. That would give the cops time to get them. 
> Actually I first thought of rat poison but ... well valium will do.

  something in that
the harder one makes it the more damage they do. 
nearly finished the rear 80m boundary today.
ringlock and 3 rows of barb. fk the council.

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## Marc

Add 415V to the fence  :Smilie:

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## toooldforthis

first time I just used the default camera settings.
got the year wrong  :Smilie:  
day:
had to resize as it was 2.5mb   
night:
had to resize as it was 1.5mb   
hoping night shots will be better next time

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## ChocDog

I've got the HikVision ones. Can easily recommend. I found out about these after wading through all the guff in the Whirlpool threads you mentioned. I hear your pain on that...... Problem is these are PoE IP cameras so unless you can get wiring to them (just ethernet cabling required), which sounds like you cant, they wont be much use to you here. But might be useful for you another time.

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## toooldforthis

> I've got the HikVision ones. Can easily recommend. I found out about these after wading through all the guff in the Whirlpool threads you mentioned. I hear your pain on that...... Problem is these are PoE IP cameras so unless you can get wiring to them (just ethernet cabling required), which sounds like you cant, they wont be much use to you here. But might be useful for you another time.

  thanks for that.
when house finished, if ever, might try them around the house. 
off to download this last weeks pics  :Arrow Right:

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## toooldforthis

neighbour who also got done in May has found some of his stuff in the local CC today.

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## phild01

And CC checks, hey!

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## mudbrick

Hopefully the fuzz bother to investigate the CC leads

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