# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  No more owner building??

## shauck

I was told yesterday (rumour perhaps) that owner  builder will go by the wayside and only registered builders will be able  to build houses in the future. Not even a chippy owner builder. Can  anyone confirm that?

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## DaveTTC

> I was told yesterday (rumour perhaps) that owner  builder will go by the wayside and only registered builders will be able  to build houses in the future. Not even a chippy owner builder. Can  anyone confirm that?

  Love to hear more about that - a good way for someone to lose an election.

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## shauck

Can you imagine the uproar.

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## goldie1

I think that rumour has been around since JC was an apprentice

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## barney118

Definition of being "registered" as an OB you are, chippy - use are licensed.  
Media and the such rely on "fear" to upset the apple cart and it is used to gain how big a reaction is obtained. 
Looking now across all the states, different rules etc apply and to align them in one industry would be impossible (or pay a public servants, should I say multiple public servants) a job for life, if they cant align education, health, roads, etc what chance have they of killing off an OB? 
They cant even control the home improvements that don't go through council.......... 
maybe insurance companies lurking in the govt's back door looking for more ways of making cash...... :Ninja:

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## ringtail

No chance that would happen I reckon. It's every bodies right to build their own home or work on their own property. The OB permit is the way to regulate this activity. I would like to see the dollar limit (in QLD anyway) lowered down from $11 000 incl GST to $3300 to encourage more people to use licenced trades. It's a funny situation in QLD. With the $ 11 000 limit ( before needing a permit) quite a bit of work can be done ( decks, kitchens, bathrooms etc...) There is no BSA insurance applicable to OB's but if they are building a deck or doing a bathroom renno that has a retail value of $ 11k or less  and they use a licenced trades they can get BSA insurance as there is no OB permit for the job, just a status of OB. Odd. Yet they can manage and coordinate all the trades and run the show - exactly as a builder would. Gotta love bureaucracy.

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## autogenous

No such thing as licensed trades in Western Australia bar Sparkies & Plumbers

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## ringtail

Really ? Plumbers and sparkies are known as "restricted trades" in QLD but everything else that requires a BSA licence (chippy, tiler, plasterer,painter etc...) is know as a licenced trade ( if you want to do work valued at $ 3300 incl GST or more). Plumbers and sparkies still have to have a BSA lic though.

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## barney118

> No chance that would happen I reckon. It's every bodies right to build their own home or work on their own property. The OB permit is the way to regulate this activity. I would like to see the dollar limit (in QLD anyway) lowered down from $11 000 incl GST to $3300 to encourage more people to use licenced trades. It's a funny situation in QLD. With the $ 11 000 limit ( before needing a permit) quite a bit of work can be done ( decks, kitchens, bathrooms etc...) There is no BSA insurance applicable to OB's but if they are building a deck or doing a bathroom renno that has a retail value of $ 11k or less  and they use a licenced trades they can get BSA insurance as there is no OB permit for the job, just a status of OB. Odd. Yet they can manage and coordinate all the trades and run the show - exactly as a builder would. Gotta love bureaucracy.

  Insurance is the problem, pre assumed risk that something has gone wrong before you start, plus all the big fellas going belly up they look at someone to pay for these mistakes. The OB course would be better off having 3-6 mth course on looking up standards/BSA, council applications, safety etc, instead of pages on insurance.  
How many people take their car to a mechanic to change oil/brakes?

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## autogenous

> Insurance is the problem, pre assumed risk that something has gone wrong before you start, plus all the big fellas going belly up they look at someone to pay for these mistakes. The OB course would be better off having 3-6 mth course on looking up standards/BSA, council applications, safety etc, instead of pages on insurance.  
> How many people take their car to a mechanic to change oil/brakes?

  Your biggest hurdle is whether the ban will lend you the money for an Owner Build.  If your a multimillionaire no ones going to argue with you. 
Builders can get between 10 and 100% discount on what you the OB gets because of volume. 
Depending on which state your in, tradies are always liable any rate, so, if your using tradies and the council has passed the plans which detail how the house is to be built whats the issue? 
Dependent on state you have to have all insurances to build anyhow even if you are owner builder. You have to have all cover and you pay more for it. 
All bases are covered.

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## DaveTTC

> Your biggest hurdle is whether the ban will lend you the money for an Owner Build.  If your a multimillionaire no ones going to argue with you. 
> Builders can get between 10 and 100% discount on what you the OB gets because of volume. 
> Depending on which state your in, tradies are always liable any rate, so, if your using tradies and the council has passed the plans which detail how the house is to be built whats the issue? 
> Dependent on state you have to have all insurances to build anyhow even if you are owner builder. You have to have all cover and you pay more for it. 
> All bases are covered.

  I would seriously love 100% discount, can you point the right way, I used to get 50% on some roofing products, that was good.

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## autogenous

Yep, anyone can buy tools and off they go bar licenced sparkie and plumber. No builder ever asks for papers, never been asked in 30 years.   

> Really ? Plumbers and sparkies are known as "restricted trades" in QLD but everything else that requires a BSA licence (chippy, tiler, plasterer,painter etc...) is know as a licenced trade ( if you want to do work valued at $ 3300 incl GST or more). Plumbers and sparkies still have to have a BSA lic though.

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## autogenous

[QUOTE=DaveTTC;915212]  Originally Posted by *autogenous*     

> Your biggest hurdle is whether the ban will lend you the money for an  Owner Build.  If your a multimillionaire no ones going to argue with  you. 
> Builders can get between 10 and 100% discount on what you the OB gets because of volume. 
> Depending on which state your in, tradies are always liable any rate,  so, if your using tradies and the council has passed the plans which  detail how the house is to be built whats the issue? 
> Dependent on state you have to have all insurances to build anyhow even  if you are owner builder. You have to have all cover and you pay more  for it. 
> All bases are covered.

    

> I would seriously love 100% discount, can you point the right way, I used to get 50% on some roofing products, that was good.
> Read more: http://www.renovateforum.com/f187/no...#ixzz2TdFtyXTu

  I have a dodgy mousepad on the laptop that does stupid things with the sentences that I dont notice at times. Sometimes whole posts vanish if the thumb goes close to the mouse pad. Ive turned sensitivity right down. Sometimes I give up on it. 
 It was confusing but you will pay 100% on what the builder will pay and some cases more.  Yes your right, > 50% plus especially if the builder has their own hardware, concrete plant etc.

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## autogenous

> I would seriously love 100% discount, can you point the right way, I used to get 50% on some roofing products, that was good.

  So if you read this again   

> Builders can get between 10 and 100% discount on what you the OB gets because of volume.
> Read more: http://www.renovateforum.com/f187/no...#ixzz2TdHtgsf1

  So if you get 40% they get another 40%

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## DaveTTC

Dam. I thought you might have had some great discounts for me.

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## cyclic

> Really ? Plumbers and sparkies are known as "restricted trades" in QLD but everything else that requires a BSA licence (chippy, tiler, plasterer,painter etc...) is know as a licenced trade ( if you want to do work valued at $ 3300 incl GST or more). Plumbers and sparkies still have to have a BSA lic though.

  Incorrect, only Plumbers need BSA licence in Qld not Sparkies.

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## autogenous

With all the FIFO and transient nature of the building industry the federal government needs nationalise the construction industry but Gillard is too slow apparently.

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## DaveTTC

> With all the FIFO and transient nature of the building industry the federal government needs nationalise the construction industry but Gillard is too slow apparently.

  I thought licenses were meant to be going national last year.

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## intertd6

It's been a few years since being in tassie but it used to be that builders didn't have to be licenced there & OB homes  accounted for around 70% of homes built in the state.
regards inter

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## jimfish

> It's been a few years since being in tassie but it used to be that builders didn't have to be licenced there &amp; OB homes  accounted for around 70% of homes built in the state.
> regards inter

  Builders are now licensed with you having to accrue points to renew license.OB are allowed to build 2 in 10 years including reno's, extensions etc.
There is still a fair bit of construction down here built without permits and the councils seem to turn a blind eye.

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## ringtail

> Incorrect, only Plumbers need BSA licence in Qld not Sparkies.

  Yes. :Tongue:

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## SilentButDeadly

OB's in Victoria are an endangered species simply because of the insurances required, the various trade certificates required to be signed off (water, sewer, sparks, wet area waterproofing and roofing from memory) and the local bureaucracy.  The certifications are mostly a response to pressure from the Master Builders Association who also are responsible for some of the more arcane idiocies of the Building Code.  The rest is just greed and stupidity. 
The result is that fewer and fewer of us can truly be bothered to even try and be an OB...even the prospect of pretending to be a OB project manager on a Victorian building project is daunting enough.

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## JB1

I think the banks are a bigger obstacle to owner building than the required certifications. 
You always had to get the proper certs for elecricity and plumbing, afaik termite and insulation certs weren't previously required but are now. 
Interestingly, water proofing cert isn't required in Vic. I know as I had recently applies for my cert of occupany for my OB house. 
Owner building is still popular in Vic, but banks don't like them.     
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

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## shauck

I can understand banks being reserved on the matter of lending to OBs. Lack of experience and poor organisation can leave a build unfinished and heading over budget. If an OB can come up with a detailed financial plan and schedule of works, with all the trades lined up and bring that to the bank, I don't see how it should be a problem. Some sort of system ought to be in place to assist the OB in achieving this and the banks should be on board with it.

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## barney118

Shauck you are on the right track, the flaws lie in banks want " insurance" or contract (legal document) to sue (worst case scenario) if something goes wrong with the build, builder goes bust etc. the OB can save heaps in labor by doing what they can themselves. The issue is competency of the skills etc, and this day the governments have put the risk control in the hands of insurance companies, government agencies (lawyers) etc, someone has to pay their wages for doing such a good job, and they p@ss in each others pockets with the banks to satisfy their personal goals, make money off you and I pay lawyers (muscle people) to split the bill.  
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

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