# Forum Home Renovation Water Saving Garden Ideas  thinking of claiming your rebate on your water tank think again?

## cilkorules

for those people who have done the right thing and got them selves a water tank to save water etc good stuff for the small amount of people who sent in an application to claim their re-bate i'll let you know now that when you get your water bill next time check where it says sewage disposal it will have the usual fee plus an excess for the size of your water tank so your acctually going to be paying more on your water bill each 3 month cycle... than what you were paying previously...... 
another thing also don't go and get those water signs grey water system working on this property or the other sign which says this house uses tank water cause the water representative will tick a box next to your account number and charge you a small premium for having such a water tank on your property... 
Cheers. :2thumbsup:

----------


## atregent

That's great, isn't it. The government want you to save water, and in Melbourne are talking about introducing a daily quota per person, but if you do the right thing, you get penalised. 
Thanks for the tip!

----------


## chrisp

Cilkorules, 
What a disincentive!  Thank you for pointing it out as I'll certainly be thinking carefully about claiming any rebate. 
I've been put off by the, in my opinion, artificially high cost of water tanks. 
Perhaps it would be a good idea to write a "letter to the editor" of the major newspapers and your Parliamentary representative and point out the disincentive. 
In my opinion, if the Government was serious about encouraging water tanks, they should arrange a bulk buy of tanks and provide them for free, or at a greatly reduced price.  They should also free up some of the plumbing regulations so that people can, if they wish, install them themselves.

----------


## seriph1

no offence but I find this very hard to believe  -  has anyone confirmed with the govt. that this is taking place? Again, no offence intended at all but I did a little googling on this and couldnt find anything except that queenslanders get a higher rebate..... any other info available that I can go to the 'man' with?

----------


## fubar

my wife works for local council at a recent grey water seminar/conference most of the attending agreed that the extra charges were a disincentive but would charge any way

----------


## chrisp

Aside from the disincentive aspect, the other issue I have is how is the use of the tank metered?   
I understand that in Victoria (and maybe elsewhere too) that sewage is charged at the same rate per litre as water and it is assumed that 80% (I think) of the metered incoming water ends up in the sewage system. 
It sounds a bit strange that unmetered water, and therefore sewage, from the water tank can be added to the bill.  How often does the water bill assume that you used the entire tank, or is it a flat charge per billing period?  What happens if you claim all the tank water was used on the garden and therefore didn't generate sewage?

----------


## SilentButDeadly

How you are charged in Melbourne depends on the proclivities of your water retailer...one of four depending on where you are in the city... 
...in general, you'll get hit with a service charge for each of your water & sewerage services. On top of that will be a block charge for water use....with the amount charged based on use - first 440kL/day, 440-880kL/day, +880kL/day....of course that'd be averaged over the meter read period. 
The sewerage use charge is as suggested.....it's based on your meter read less a given percentage which is assumed to be outside use.  
As an example.....http://www.yarravalleywater.com.au/N...xplained08.pdf 
If you have a water tank and you've claimed a rebate where it is 'assumed' that you've plumbed the tank into the dunny & washing machine.......then it is a given that your charge for water use will go down because you are using less water from the mains... 
BUT 
if you are connected to the sewer then the amount of sewage you generate won't change!!! But your sewerage charge is generated off the meter!! 
So they have to include an estimate for that substitution of water.  Which explains the so called 'tank' charge. Your estimated outdoor use quotient probably goes down too. 
If they don't then you get a free kick on the cost of treating your sewerage....which isn't fair (your @@@@ stinks just as much as anyone else).  You already have the rebate plus you are spending less on the water in the first place.  
How many free rides do you people want?

----------


## seriph1

Not that this covers the lunacy of any other water retailer, but I called ours - Goulburn Valley Water  -  and the CSR not only stated that having a tank or grey water sign etc. has no bearing on the charges, she said she hadn't heard anything to that effect from other providers .... this doesn't mean it isnt happening, merely that GVW did not charge in that way. According to her, their meter readers have no instruction or method of capturing such data and she was unaware of any plans to do so. She added that it seemed weird that people would be charged more for lowering their consumption of a resource. 
the thick plottens   :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

----------


## Gooner

I thought the extra charge on the water bill for the water tank was only applied depending on whether you are in a catchment area or not. (Heard this second hand.. so not sure).

----------


## seriph1

Yarra Valley have received numerous queries about this from customers and it just isnt the case at all  -  that's from the horse's mouth. 131 721 was the number I called, for your reference.  
The CSR's name is Erin and she said she is happy to receive calls to clarify this. 
The charges are levied by reading the meter, then based on that reading residents get hit for that amount.  
Sewerage is charged against water usage ... regarding this: the sewerage charges are adjusted down because the water consumed through the meter is lower. According to Erin, if we have a rain-or-grey water collection system that reduces the amount of catchment water consumption, our bill is lower. 
Man, I am thirsty now!

----------


## fubar

mornington penisular is charging for grey and rain water usage

----------


## seriph1

So you're saying a council is charging a levee for this? How can they calculate what to charge? I am attending a business forum tomorrow and would love to be able to ask our Shire's CEO if theyre planning this too, or if they know of other Shires doing so  -  it just doesn't make any kind of sense to me that people would be penalised for being more responsible users of a resource, but who knows......

----------


## autogenous

How big is the fee? 
There was an article in a newspaper some time ago about charging people for tanks as it was considered acquiring run off therefore a resource. 
Water companies are in the business of selling water. Its kind of ironic that people who sell water  are trying to reduce it.

----------


## Ashwood

I had the same experience as Seriph. Spoke to Yarra Valley Water (I'm one of those "numerous queries") and they said they won't be charging extra for having a water tank and that these rumours are untrue.   
Don't know of any factual case of anyone charging ... is the Mornington case one where someone has sighted an actual invoice (any chance of seeing the invoice with personal info deleted?) or perhaps there is more background on that particular charge/fee. I'd be interested to know a confirmed case where this is happening.

----------


## fubar

well ive had a good chat with my friends who are building down on the peninsula and turns out that they were slightly exaggerating the case.
 what they have heard in fact is through a local community group heard that the council will be charging for the reduced runoff into storm water drains without any hard evidence
i apologise for spreading the rumour as i believed from what i was originally told was that they had been charged and was in the council rate notice as was comparing rates with them
however something like this charge was discussed between authorities at a recent conference as sewerage disposal is charged at how much water comes into property 
again apologise

----------


## GraemeCook

Hi All 
Read the above posts and was intrigued as to how my council treated these issues.  So I read my quarterly bills in depth. 
There are no water meters in Hobart and HCC charges separate General, Fire, Garbage, Sewerage, Storm Water and Water rates;  all charged as cents in the dollar of Assessed Annual Value.   Assessed Annual Value is determined by the Valuer General who never visits properties and seems to be something like what the rental value of a property might be like when inhaling illegal substances and as only a bureaucrat could think up.    
Or if I move to a more expensive - sorry higher AAV - property then I'll use the toilet more and this will be reflected in higher sewerage charges.     Weird. 
Cheers 
Graeme

----------


## Planned LScape

Ive heard this idea bandied about for a couple of years, but havent yet heard of it becoming a rule 
I also heard that farmers can get charged for catchment areas on their farm if they have a dam as a water storage? That sounds worse than the tanks imo, if true. Council's don't own the sky where rain falls!

----------


## woodbe

We have friends on a property in the Adelaide Hills who have a large garden watered off their own dam. (The whole place might be 20 acres or so) It's probably in a catchment area. SA Water or one of their minions directed them to install a meter on the dam. They had to pay for the meter too. They are charged a very low rate for the water compared to city folk, but they do get a bill. I guess this is a rural property in catchment area thing. 
On the other hand, we are in an Adelaide Hills suburb. We have installed a large tank, and also have town water access. I'd be happy to pay nominal amounts for the water we collect as long as our on-site hardware is leased from us at commercial rates and the water quality is guaranteed to town water specification. 
Otherwise, they can stick their bills up their collective sewage plants.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Ashwood

> well ive had a good chat with my friends who are building down on the peninsula and turns out that they were slightly exaggerating the case.
> what they have heard in fact is through a local community group heard that the council will be charging for the reduced runoff into storm water drains without any hard evidence
> i apologise for spreading the rumour as i believed from what i was originally told was that they had been charged and was in the council rate notice as was comparing rates with them
> however something like this charge was discussed between authorities at a recent conference as sewerage disposal is charged at how much water comes into property 
> again apologise

  Thanks Fubar, for the update. Good to hear that it's not confirmed. There's still hope yet for those of us trying to do the right thing by installing rainwater tanks.

----------


## OzWolfbane

I have emailed yaraa valley water, lets see what they say

----------


## Tawny

The Essential Services Commission sets the rules for water pricing and have been conducting a review - go to   http://www.esc.vic.gov.au/public/Water/ 
Also, here's a PowerPoint laying out some of the issues around sewage charges  www.esc.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/4D9384C9-DFA9-4FB8-AB35-D5AE154F34F3/0/YVW2Slides.ppt 
Looks to me like the water tank surcharge is probably just a rumour.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## XT4V

> I have emailed yaraa valley water, lets see what they say

  any updates on this?  :Cool:

----------


## cilkorules

Remember those water signs you could purchase for your properties,
"grey water systems in use on premesis"
"Water tank on property"  etc
from bunings or hardware shops, a mate i know said to me not too long ago that when the water meter man comes around to check  house meters etc.... 
there is a Box next to the your lot number to tick if water tanks are used on property..
I may not be 100 % correct to the T but, this information is then used to add cost for extra sewage and other costs ...etc 
Be good idea to get rid of those signs guys...

----------


## D.M.S

so at the end of the day is it worth claiming the rebate or not?
I was thinking of getting a tank (1000L) just for garden use.

----------


## Terrian

> so at the end of the day is it worth claiming the rebate or not?
> I was thinking of getting a tank (1000L) just for garden use.

  we did, installed a couple of 5,500lt tanks, hooked up to laundry & toilet, got $1,000 back.
Wont save $$ on the water bill, but will be able to water the veggie patch when ever we want.

----------


## HomeBuilder

> there is a Box next to the your lot number to tick if water tanks are used on property..
> I may not be 100 % correct to the T but, this information is then used to add cost for extra sewage and other costs ...etc
> Be good idea to get rid of those signs guys...

  In country Victoria the local water authority gets lots of calls dobbing in people using water on a day they shouldn't.  With stage 4 water restrictions, they have asked to be told about illegal water use.  I know that they then have to send someone round to the property to see if someone is legitimately using bore water, grey or tankwater before they can warn or fine them.  I wonder if the meter reader is taking note of tank, bore and grey water users to save them a trip to the property if there's a complaint?  That's what I'd do if I was them.

----------

