# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  Downlight covers with insulation

## Ausyuppy

Im about to fix up the insulation in my ceiling. When the insulation was installed 5 years ago it was done pretty rough. Insulation is pretty damn cheap at the moment due to the cancellation of the rebates, so I intend on getting rid of all the gaps in the insulation and double up the insulation where it has been split in half. I reakon I will need to insulate another 140sq m after I do all this. I can get 140 sq m cellulose R3.5 at the moment for $250. This is what I have installed already. 
One problem I have is that I have 31 downlights (4 halogen fittings with CFL's in them) and 27 standard downlights (90mm variety). I have stumbled onto a product http://www.naturalinsulation.com.au/...DataSheet.aspx that can be placed over the downlights and then allows you to directly insulate over the top of the lights. 
Im happy to buy these covers ($10 each) to place over the lights. This will stop the drafts that I am getting as well as allow me to fully insulate my ceiling space. If you look at the link I posted, the batts would have an air gap between the insulation and the gyprock as it passes over the light. Is this an issue insulation wise or will this be ok? These covers are from a supplier in SA. http://www.downlightcover.com/covers.html 
Ive managed to convince the missus for me to remove the IXL tastic in the bathroom to get rid of the drafts that we get from that. Just need to install better lighting. In the winter we use a fan heater to heat the bathroom anyway. I plan to install a ceiling fan with a draft cover in place of the tastic. 
Any input would be appreciated.
Cheers
Steve

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## Bloss

1. Didn't need to remove the Tastic to get rid of drafts - should have just installed a DraftStopper! available for ceiling fans & Tastics. See: Draft Stopper Fan & Fan Cover 
2. I have used the downlight igloos and they are great: Downlight Cover Suppliers - Australian Downlight Covers work out at around $12 each with freight - box of 24 so you might need a friend to buy some with. But I reckon they are more substantial and safer than the cardboard looking ones. 
Of course you should be removing any halogen downlights .  .  .  :Frown:

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## Johnny K

Efficiency Matrix recently commissioned a report, on R-value loses from downlights.  http://efficiencymatrix.com/wp-conte...nergy-Loss.pdf 
The Halogen Mitt,  is a Lamp downlight cover retrofit, Which includes an R-value and Fire Rating but also changes the dynamics of Halogen Lighting with a Lamp that forces the majority of its heat downwards, with a lower wattage lamp.  Efficiency Matrix 
Comments welcomed.

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## Bloss

The R-rating losses come from a) thermal loss trough air gaps around the fitting and b) the uninsulated area (minimum clearances) around the lamp fitting. A decent cover - there are few - will fit snugly to the ceiling material (plasterboard etc) and the insulation can be place fully over the protector at normal thickness (some designs do not do this). 
Downlights are simply damn awful in terms of utility and fit for purpose in all but a few situations - so really should be used only where they are the best option - and that's a long way from the near universal use all over the ceiling in so many places nowadays. 
So get a decent and safe cover if you just keep the downlight (but go CFL or good LED), but the best option by far is to work out what sort of lightng you really need and get that - and mostly downlights won't be the best! 
All the engineers are telling you is that you get less thermal loss when you reduce the area through which heat can be lost (by reducing the usual 200mm clearance) Duh!

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## Ausyuppy

Unfortunately Bloss the downlights suit most modern designs of houses these days. I must admit I like them. However I have 27 of the standard R80 size downlights and only 4 halogen style downlights. 
I contacted the importer of the downlight covers at TENMAT Line of Downlight Protection Covers: Recessed Light Fixtures: Downlight Insulation Guard and had a good chat with him. I plan to use these covers as they are mandatory to be used in England and have been in use for a long time. What I like about them is that I can put a few dobs of silicon on the bottom and fully seal the light fitting which will eliminate the air leakage as well as the thermal losses. They seem to be fairly well tested. I like the fact I can insulate straight over them. 
It will cost $10 per cover and he will cover the freight so I think thats a good deal for me. The price of insulation has hit rock bottom around here, so I should be able to cover all my downlights and fix all my insulation for around the $600 mark. 
What are peoples opinions of insulating the eaves?? I have noticed the problem at my front door. I have a small alcove and I have a digital themometer in that area. At the front door the temperature can be 5 deg above the air temperature. Im going to insulate the front door, but curious whether there would be any benefits insulating the eaves, particularly above the windows to try to eliminate heat transfer into the house. 
Also I will look into those covers for the tastics. I thought that the heat lamps would cause issues covering the tastics, but it seems that is not the case. 
Cheers
Steve

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## Bloss

Ah slaves to fashion all of us eh!   :Biggrin:  Eaves insulation is fine and a good idea in most cases - costs little extra in any case - just not critical as any gains are small. Most of the heat near the windows will be radiant heat if they are not in the direct sun. Shade of some sort (on the outside is best).

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## applied

if you want the very best and you have any thought of placing any type of insulation over your downlights please check out Isolite Downlight Guard
once youve seen it you cant un see it. 
Fully tested and approved to meet AS/NZS3000:2007

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## autogenous

Some used to put 100mm pvc pipe round the light to keep the Insulation away. 
If people are that anal about the gaps over their lights then they should see how much energy passes through 3-4mm glass window.  The greater the glass area the windows, the whole lot worse the situation gets.   :Smilie:

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## teknostar

We have the Isolite covers, left over from the HIP 
Isolite Guard 94mm cover + Transformer isolator
Isolite Guard 94mm offset cover + Transformer isolator 
will ship australia wide for $9 each (min qty 10)

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## Ausyuppy

Well I ended up ordering the Tenmat covers. Turned out they were $10 + GST so it ended up costing me $374 for 34 of them with free delivery. 
I did some research on them and they definately seem to be the way to go. I looked at others that were plastic and I still couldnt work out whether I could completely cover them. I assumed you cant. They allow insulation up to the cover though. 
I should be getting some insulation soon and hopefully in the next few weeks I will get the covers up and the insulation fixed. 
Anyways I will post some photos when I get them installed. 
Bloss... looking at the shade option for the front room. I have bay windows that have no eaves. They introduce so much heat into the house, just need to decide exactly what I want to do on that one. 
Cheers
Steve 
Cheers
Steve

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## Ausyuppy

Bought the insulation today. 
Its R3.5 Johns Manville insulation from the states. The guy I bought it off has a warehouse full of the stuff left over from the insulation scheme. As expected I paid $2 a sq M so $600 for 300 sq m. 
I have insulation installed already, I was originally going to consolidate what I had, fix up the screw ups and then re-insulate the remainder, but at the price I could get the insulation for I decided to redo the whole house. Just tossing up whether I should lay it over the top of the old stuff or not. The original insulation is only 5 years old and was R3 however some of them have been split!!! 
Hopefully my downlight covers turn up this week, that way I can hook in this weekend coming. 
Cheers
Steve

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## jonc

I ordered these downlight covers and they have been great.

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## Insulvac

Hi, 
Please bear in mind, it is one thing to cover the downlight itself, but a lot of heat emanates from the transformer itself. You must protect this as well as the light. Isolite downlight covers have transformer cradles that clip onto them, with adequate ventilation inbuilt so that they dont heat up. Have a look at this link, it should explain everything.  
Cheers 
Mick www.*isolite*.com.au/product.htm

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## Standard

Strayed upon this site and after reading a few comments could not help but comment (especially as several companies are offering advice). Firstly yes, I represent a product and I would like to offer some advice on suitable downlight protection. 
Firstly, did you know product used in this application is considered NOT to be electrical equipment and out with the scope of electrical safety offices. This means nothing complies with AS 3000 because it cant. 
There is no product classification in Australia which allows manufacturers to self certify. 
If you have open vented enclosures check out You Tube and search chimney fire starter.  
Fires start because insulation covers downlights. If this has been identified as a cause of fire why cant any of the enclosures mentioned here offer any protection if the enclosure is covered with insulation. 
The simple answer is because the existing requirements are ignored and marketing claims are portrayed as facts.  
I will be more than willing to answer any questions on this subject and many may be shocked by the reality surrounding this issue. 
The first point I would make is, under international standards product used in this application are classed as passive fire protection products. This requires full fire and thermal testing in the most onerous conditions. Third party accreditation from an underwritten test lab. No self certification.

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## Ausyuppy

So which products do you agree with and which ones dont you?? 
As far as I can see from the tenmat products, they meet fire ratings. From what I can see this must be better than the plastic varieties. 
Cheers
Steve

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## Standard

Tenmat! 
Will.

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## Ausyuppy

Thought it was you Will  :Smilie:  
Still waiting for that box of 10 to turn up. Am impressed with the covers, hopefully will start fitting them this weekend. Will post photos when installed.

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## Val Driver

Question: 
If you have a skillion roof that has builders blanket under the colourbond and you plan on putting in downlights, in what order would you install the covers? Obviously, the insulation will go into the ceiling space before the  gyprock. Is it necessary to suspend the insulation above the gyprock and then would covers still be necessary?

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## DownlightDoctor

Ausyuppy 
Both products you have ordered are great products.
The tenmat covers are the best by far William who you spoke to in SA is a wealth of information. 
Good job on your choices

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## spurf

If you want to replace the downlight holder as well this is an option - Beacon Lighting - PROTEKTA 
I just had 48  :Yikes2: of these installed to replace the previous very yellowed old holders. Bonus is that they can be installed from below. Price is very good as well. 
With R3.5 insulation abutting, the top of the heatsink they gets to 60 degrees tested after 2 hours using a thermocouple. 
They also come with replacement MR16 cables which was great as about 10 of my old ones had connectors that were fraying and a few weren't lighting anymore.

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## Standard

Interesting views being voiced here. I would however point out that energy losses through windows is approx 25% of total losses. Uncovered downlights are 3.8% each, so 7 x downlights < 26%. 
Downlights are required to eliminate air leakage overseas and those who still have faith in vented chimneys, who believe nothing other than insulation is potentially combustible in a ceiling space I would encourage to review basic fire triad principles and suggest a BBQ fire starter is viewed on you tube!

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