# Forum Home Renovation Kitchens  Installation advice on best cabinet for a F & P single dishdrawer: + Power question

## Sagasu

Hi all.  
I'm planning an Ikea kitchen to replace my existing one which is pretty old. I will be getting a handyman/builder to install it.  
My first problem is trying to figure out the right cabinet to buy for a F & P Single drawer dishwasher that goes under the sink. 
The measurement for the dishwasher is 599 wide but the Ikea 600 cabinet is less than that internally when allowances are made for the thickness of the cabinet walls. (18mm x 2)
Same problem with Bunnings cabinets it seems.  
Who's done one of these and what did you use?   
Kitchen is small and I'll be fitting the single dishdrawer directly under the sink.   
Second question:   
Would the existing power allow for both a standard ceramic (not induction) cooktop _as well as_ a regular built in oven?  
A freestanding oven with cooktop is being removed.  
I didn't think about it until the ikea products stated that oven needs 16A fuse, and cooktop needs 2 x 16A fuse or 32A fuse.  Maybe that's just normal?
Not sure what that means (Amps?) but am concerned that my old unit may not have the power it needs. 
I realise that the electrician will have to check and advise but it would be helpful if those with experience could let me know if it 'generally' is ok with these older places.  
It would save me wasting time looking at the wrong sort of appliances.  
Thanks for reading.   :Smilie:

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## JB1

I'd be surprised that any flat pack kitchen won't fit a standard dishwasher. 
I'd definately upgrade the power and get induction, infinitely better than ceramic. 
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## Sagasu

I'd have thought so too, but based on the measurements, it doesn't. 
 If just the front was 599 and the back less, then I could see how it would work. (Maybe it is, but the tech specs don't indicate this to be the case) 
Calling F & P wasn't any help either.  
That's why I've posted on here, to hopefully learn from someone with firsthand experience.  
Regarding an induction cooktop, there are too many issues with getting a separate circuit back the to main power box eg. body corporate, running conduit outside the building, and/or through the roof above other units, plus cost.

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## Sagasu

I'm surprised too, but according to the measurements it won't.  If the front of the dishdrawer only were 599mm and the back less then I could see how it would work but it doesn't seem to be the case. 
I called F & P too but it wasn't helpful.  
That's why I'm hoping someone on here with first hand experience of installing a Fisher and Paykel single dishdrawer may be able to tell me how they managed the cabinet for it.  
As far as induction, I'd wanted it but the expense and hassle eg. Body Corporate, external conduits, running through the roof above other units etc has ruled it out for me.

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## r3nov8or

Is there enough room for the sink plumbing and dishwasher directly below the sink? 
Do you actually need a cabinet for the dishwasher? I mean, leave the right space between two cabinets, with the benchtop spanning, and you have a void

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## jimfish

Generally there is an open space between cabinets that is set up to the width you need for a dishwasher. With a single drawer unit you obviously have space above that needs to be filled in. You may need to get a cabinet custom built to suit

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## Marc

Are you sure you want an IKEA kitchen? My experience is not very good and they are expensive.

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## cyclic

> Is there enough room for the sink plumbing and dishwasher directly below the sink? 
> Do you actually need a cabinet for the dishwasher? I mean, leave the right space between two cabinets, with the benchtop spanning, and you have a void

  Single dish drawer would usually go up high under the drainer area of the sink, not under the bowl/s, but op needs to keep this in mind when getting plumbing and electrical done. 
OP also needs to be aware in Qld a handy person grrrrrrrrrr can only do work up to $3000 not including GST, and that $3000 includes all materials even if supplied by the owner i.e cabinets etc.
Builder or cabinet installer is a much better option and make sure they are registered with QBCC, as useless as QBCC are.

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## r3nov8or

...and along the lines of jimfish, there will be some custom work required, including to tidy up with a plinth, as it's not a freestanding dishwasher. It seems to me the dishwasher is made precisely for the absence of a carcass in it's location

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## Uncle Bob

I put one in once, where there was a cupboard. It fitted in no worries at all, just removed the cupboard carcass and all.

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## Sagasu

In the absence of the 'right' cabinet, I was thinking that custom work on a larger cabinet to bring it to size might be an option, or, totally custom built.   If no carcass then wouldn't that mean the dishdrawer theoretically sits on the floor?  Ok for a standard dishwasher but not for a dishdrawer.  Also, I'd expect the benchtop needs cabinetry under it for support, no? The sink is at the end of the bench.  I was originally uncertain if the dishdrawer would go under the sink, but I've had two kitchen companies quote, and both reckon it's ok there, as does the handyman/builder. The ikea option should prove to be the most economical (if it doesn't go pear shaped  :Cry: ) and have all of the 'bits' that I wanted, aside from this dishwasher conundrum.    (The'handyman/builder' is registered with QBCC for work up to $150K, and I believe he has the right qualifications/skills. It's just that he does such a variety of work that I refer to him as 'handyman'.)   

> Single dish drawer would usually go up high under the drainer area of the sink, not under the bowl/s, but op needs to keep this in mind when getting plumbing and electrical done.

  Would be great if it could go under the drainer, but space for it is at a premium, hence the planned position below the sink. The plumber will have to confirm too that the plumbing will work. 
 When it does get placed up high in other kitchens, then I'm assuming cabinetry to support it?

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## SlowMick

The 410 height is going to be the killer for the Ikea kitchen.  The doors are in 100mm increments to an overall height of 800mm.  The dishdrawer is 410mm high so the dishwasher will hang 10mm lower than the rest of the cupboards door if it is under a 400mm high cabinet.   
Is there anywhere else in the kitchen the dishwasher could be located? 
We have an ikea kitchen and i like the design - it is not without its flaws but it worked for us.

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## cyclic

> Hi all.  
> I'm planning an Ikea kitchen to replace my existing one which is pretty old. I will be getting a handyman/builder to install it.  
> My first problem is trying to figure out the right cabinet to buy for a F & P Single drawer dishwasher that goes under the sink. 
> The measurement for the dishwasher is 599 wide but the Ikea 600 cabinet is less than that internally when allowances are made for the thickness of the cabinet walls. (18mm x 2)
> Same problem with Bunnings cabinets it seems.

  An installer should have the tools and ability to revamp one cupboard, meaning removing/cutting the side panels, lowering the shelf if necessary, and cutting the door/s down to suit the dishdrawer.
Find an installer who can do this before you commit to the purchase.

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## Sagasu

Yes, that's what I'm hoping!  The guy doing it is good, but a bit hard to communicate with at times. He reckoned to just get a 600 oven cabinet and that would work, but all the cabinets have the same interior dimensions.  Maybe he is confident he can do the sort of cutting down/widening out you describe. I'd expect that filler pieces would have to be cut for the spaces.   
Look, once the dishwasher is purchased and opened up all these concerns might be for nought.  :Redface:  
I'm not knowledgable in renos, hence very grateful for you many experienced folk who've taken time to consider this and reply.  I am just trying to fend off problems before it is too late. The window of time where I can buy this kitchen is narrowing.   
@Uncle Bob said his went in no problem! .... (but without the carcass) 
Maybe that is the experience of everyone who actually has installed one. ?

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## Uncle Bob

> @Uncle Bob said his went in no problem! .... (but without the carcass)

  Actaully I missed the part about single Dish Drawer, the one I installed was a double.

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## r3nov8or

All the pics in the install guide appear to me to have the dishdrawer set between two carcasses, not within it's own carcass https://www.fisherpaykel.com/vault/p...tall_NZGBw.pdf  
And note the waste connection required for Kosher requirements. I never...

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## cyclic

> All the pics in the install guide appear to me to have the dishdrawer set between two carcasses, not within it's own carcass https://www.fisherpaykel.com/vault/p...tall_NZGBw.pdf  
> And note the waste connection required for Kosher requirements. I never...

  "The Cavity" shows it on a shelf .
Not sure what waste connection you refer to.
Easiest waste connection is to the spud on the trap with the hose looping as high under bench as possible to avoid backflow when the sink is flushed..

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## Sagasu

Looking at that guide you attached, it definitely looks like no cabinet.  Goes in between two carcasses....   
(I did actually have that guide downloaded some time ago but only after you pointing it out, am I now able to 'see' that there is no cabinet in the design, just a shelf between two I guess. Prior to asking on the forum I did a lot of searching online but it is having this interaction that is most helpful) 
Hmmm....  No cabinet makes it easier, and also a little harder.   
Righto..  With no cabinet, and being an 'end of bench', something extra is going to be needed to support the stone   :Shock:   benchtop !!

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## Sagasu

> "The Cavity" shows it on a shelf .
> Not sure what waste connection you refer to.
> Easiest waste connection is to the spud on the trap with the hose looping as high under bench as possible to avoid backflow when the sink is flushed..

  I get it about the "Kosher" waste connection.  :Smilie: 
It says that for "kosher" connections you need two separate waste outlets!  Don't guess you see that in a guide too often.  
Good point about the backflow.   Maybe that's why most of them are up under the draining tray. !?
 I'm guessing it can be managed though, as you suggest,  because the first time I ever saw one of these in action it was in an apartment hotel, and in the lowest part of a kitchen cabinet, though not directly below the sink.

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## Uncle Bob

> Righto..  With no cabinet, and being an 'end of bench', something extra is going to be needed to support the stone    benchtop !!

  Maybe move some carcasses around if possible

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## Sagasu

Just figured out how to put an attachment.   
Kitchen design with 'trial' 800mm base cabinet, before I came on this forum.  Tight space for  it all. 
Can't move any carcasses in that area, though as an absolute last resort, I believe dishwasher could be installed beside the oven, but would lose out in lots of other ways.   
Might be able to squeeze a 200m cabinet at the end of the sink bench for stability, with a gap between it and the corner cabinet to allow the room for the dishwasher.  Guess then my builder would need to put strong supports across the front and back of the void so that it would support the sink and benchtop.     
At least now that I know it won't suit a cabinet, the builder can put his energy into figuring out a solution to support the void.  I'm sure extra cover panels will be fine for the extra space.

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## phild01

Posts #3 and #11 by Sagasu have been included.

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## Cecile

The dish drawer MUST be installed adjacent to, or inside a cabinet and anchored in place.  It can't simply be pushed into a space and left sitting like you can with a freestanding machine. It isn't counterweighted like a freestanding machine is, and has to be screwed in place so it doesn't tip forward when open.  I know because we wanted a dishdrawer and couldn't use one under our commercial sink.  Did you know you can get a 450 wide small upright dishwasher for smaller kitchens? 
IKEA kitchens are very serviceable and robust.  We like ours, although they can be a pain to put together.  I see you're using the corner cabinet.  The door opening on that cabinet is quite small so you won't be able to get big pots into it.  When they changed to the new kitchen style a few years ago, they reduced the size of the cabinet so the door is a lot smaller.

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## Sandshoes

Im still trying to work out how you are going to fit it under the sink?

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## r3nov8or

> I’m still trying to work out how you are going to fit it under the sink?

   Yep. It's going to have to go on the plinth to fit under the sink S bend, and the plumbers are going to have to do a good job of the waste pipe, right back on the wall

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## Sagasu

> Im still trying to work out how you are going to fit it under the sink?

  Ha!  So am I.....   :Smilie:  
However, there are skilled folk that say it can be done, so I'm crossing my fingers.  
I've seen it done in a couple of photos online, which encourages me.  I'll try to attach them. 
Having the dishdrawer under the sink is a challenge but a huge benefit as it really lets everything else in the kitchen fall into place. 
 I'd have had to give up the idea before now it I hadn't been encouraged by those who reckon it can be done. (and by the all you helpful folk here!)   

> Yep. It's going to have to go on the plinth to fit under the sink S bend, and the plumbers are going to have to do a good job of the waste pipe, right back on the wall

  Good advice. I seem to remember the builder mentioning piping at the back wall. It sure seems like it'll be really tight, but at the same time, I am always impressed with the ingenuity of people to solve problems.  
Photos of dishdrawer under sink attached below.

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## goldie1

I looked at one of those in a small kitchen recently ended up using a 450 wide  It was a much better option all round

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## Godzilla73

You would need to go 700mm tops to get the space for the waste pipe to go behind, youll also need to route the dishwasher plumbing in there too. In a std ht kitchen of 900mm I reckon itll be tight for the trap too. 700 deep isnt an issue for the kitchen mob but as soon as you go over the 600mm std you pay substantially more so your wallet will suffer. Do ikea go to 700 deep?

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## Sagasu

Have been busy getting the kitchen purchased and the dishwasher install plan sorted. Plumber and kitchen installer came and plan on the piping to be in a space to the right of the dishwasher. the space will be just over 100mm wide and the trap running front to back. Hot cold water pipes will run underneath behind the kickboard, or at least that is my expectation from the discussions the two tradies had.     

> You would need to go 700mm tops to get the space for the waste pipe to go behind, youll also need to route the dishwasher plumbing in there too.

  Ikea doesn't do 700mm deep, though I am getting an independent business for the bench tops, but don't expect to have to go that wide if the install goes to plan.  
Seems that everything can get routed to the 100mm+ space that will be beside the dishwasher and the neighbouring cabinet (a bit like the photo included above).  It will in fact be like a custom-made space/cabinet to house the dishwasher and the piping.  
Good suggestion about the 450mm wide dishwasher, though the dishdrawer would have still been my preference, with the proviso that it fits.  :Smilie:  
Will be working to alter an 800mm cabinet for the space, with the side panel moved to accommodate securing the dishwasher into place at 600mm. Most of the 'leftover' space to the right of the dishwasher will house the plumbing, again, like in the photo above.   
Committed now!  Seems that it will all work out. 
Many thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. It enabled me to more effectively discuss what was needed, and wanted, when the Installer and plumber came.   
I'm pretty happy with the prospect of it being an Ikea kitchen. Seems solid enough and it has a lot of options for fine tuning the way the cupboards will be configured.   
Will post some pics when it is finally done!

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## Walshie

Regarding your question about the power. First of all the two 16 amps option is not normal, at least not in Australia. that is for the Netherlands where the run 2 phase power, hence 16 amp per phase. 
but to keep things simple you will need a 32 amp breaker for your stove top. 
Next you wanted to know if you could use your exiting supply. that all depends on what your current breaker/fuse is rated to. 
Technically yes you can run them on the same breaker. I would not recommend it. assuming you go for a 32 Amp breaker and have both the oven and stove connected to it, if your are using all the cook tops and the oven, it will trip. Also, it may not be that easy to put a bigger breaker in, as it all depends on what else is in the switch board. 
Save your self the nuisance and install a separate breaker for each.  
also keep in mind, you will also need power to the range hood (assuming you are going to have one).

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## Sagasu

> Save your self the nuisance and install a separate breaker for each.  
> also keep in mind, you will also need power to the range hood (assuming you are going to have one).

  Thanks for your input on the power question. It's very timely as the electrician is coming on Tuesday, and I will be able to work through it with him.  
Within a couple of weeks I'll hopefully have this new kitchen installed with the configuration that I am wanting. Will update when all finished.  :Smilie:

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## Sagasu

For those of you who are interested, I was eventually successful in getting the single F &  P dishdrawer installed under the sink. I'll include some photos below. 
The kitchen installer ended up customising an 800mm wide Ikea cabinet to fit it in, adding a half depth removable shelf above the dishwasher (which has been very handy for the odd bits & pieces) and also a narrow door in front of the piping, as well as customised a door that could open up directly below the sink.  Hopefully the photos clarify a little. 
Very happy with the results as it gives me everything that I needed, and a bit more. Power was run through a hole cut
 between cabinets. 
It was a _very_ tight squeeze to get it all in, especially as my space didn't allow for the full 800 mm width of the cabinet, and there was no extra space above the dishwasher. 
In the end though, it was successful. 
Thanks again for those who gave advice along the way.   
(Default setting puts photo on it's side)

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## SlowMick

Thank you for coming back and posting up the result. good luck with the rest of the kitchen.

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## Sagasu

Pleased to be able to share a positive result! 
As for the rest of the kitchen, it's was completed successfully too.  
I'm now ready to get quotes for painting, flooring and window furnishings. 
I have some queries about that too! ....but will do so on another thread.  :Smilie:

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