# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  Brivis Ducted heating problem

## futronix

Hey all... 
Anyone know what could be wrong with our ducted system? 
Brivis ducted system, was working fine,  
digital thermostat  - relay turns on ok.... Pilot light is on... 
problem is that when the theromstat is switched on there is no reponse from the ducted unit... fan does not come on, heater rails do not alite. 
i can manually put the fan on via the swtich in the unit but it wont automatically start when the relay switches on the thermostat nor does the gas fire up.... 
any suggestions. 
Cheers

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## Gumby

I had a similar problem and called a local Heating Cooling guy in. He turned the unit's power off at the plug and then turned it back on. It reset the unit and it worked fine. 
he charged me $100 for the call out.  :Mad:  
Give it a try. And if it works, you owe me $100  :Cool:

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## Metung

Also had a similar/identical problem with our system some time ago but wasn't as lucky as Gumby. The gas control unit in the burner unit outside had to be replaced - at a cost of $350 back in 05.

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## futronix

thnx for the replies.. 
have tried turning it off and on again. was one of the first things i tried.... 
unfortunately i think its the main control unit also.... thought it would of just been a gas relay in the main unit but the fan is not swtiching on either so it might be the whole module.

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## Gumby

> thnx for the replies.. 
> have tried turning it off and on again. was one of the first things i tried....

  See, since you joined this forum, things are getting better already. 
You just saved yourself $100  :Wink:

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## zathras

Hmmmm, I just got in the roof to do the same to my Brivis heater. 
Certainly cycling the power switch seemed to make things a lot better, gas fired up straight away. 
Is there a Brivis Y2K fault designed to trip on the 11th August 2007? :Eek:   
The other strange thing is the light fitted so you can see went on and off several times before staying on when I first turned it on. 
I'm thinking perhaps the switches on the GPO / light is full of dust making a bad contact, flicked it several times and all seems good now...

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## bricks

You may have a broken mag valve ( gas control) Do you have to manually start the pilot with a piezo igniter button?  
Your mag valve gets a small EG 30-50 milliamp feed from the thermostat to power a small electro magnet which opens the gas feed- pilot will work when this part isn't. 
If you have a rod and tube type thermostat the milliamps are the same but the tube assembly may have broken- happens all the time. 
The fan on most units is wired before the gas valve too so if your fan is broken your gas won't come on either- its a safety feature- If i were you id check the fan first, then worry about the gas, until you get the fan working the gas problem- if there is one - wont be easy to find. 
Sometimes there is a build up of scum on the fan blades and motor making it much heavier- if you wipe this off and clean it a bit you may find the fan can spin more easilly,

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## Stuart

Had a similar situation - same symptoms. 
My unit wouldn't reset - what had happened was I had too many ducts closed, and the unit had tripped on overheat. 
Real problem was - dust, age, (lack of) luck, the trip wouldn't reset, even with power cycling. 
My guy - (I've found a good one) came out, took the unit apart (bloody trip switch is in the bottom, underneath everything!), cleaned it out, tested, confirmed the switch was still good, and was working again and reassembled. 
Total cost - about $80.  I've used this guy in the past, and will every time in the future - he's reliable, charges reasonably, and knows his job.

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## futronix

> You may have a broken mag valve ( gas control) Do you have to manually start the pilot with a piezo igniter button?  
> Your mag valve gets a small EG 30-50 milliamp feed from the thermostat to power a small electro magnet which opens the gas feed- pilot will work when this part isn't. 
> If you have a rod and tube type thermostat the milliamps are the same but the tube assembly may have broken- happens all the time. 
> The fan on most units is wired before the gas valve too so if your fan is broken your gas won't come on either- its a safety feature- If i were you id check the fan first, then worry about the gas, until you get the fan working the gas problem- if there is one - wont be easy to find. 
> Sometimes there is a build up of scum on the fan blades and motor making it much heavier- if you wipe this off and clean it a bit you may find the fan can spin more easilly,

  thnx for your reply. the fan can be manually started from a switch.. fans tests ok... we have changedf from a mercury swtich thermostat to a digital one (been working for over a year till now).. relay clicks on ok... havent tested the current going through to the inlet of the cotrol box onthe unit.... will have to some more investigating.......

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## Metung

Hey Futronix, I hope this problem isn't keeping you awake at night. :Biggrin:

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## maxpower

Hi, it could be any number of things and hard to say without more specific information. It could be your gas valve, flame rollout sensor or your electronic controller. If your heater has been switched off for some time and the LEDs are doing a merry dance its probably your electronic controller.
If you can safely test voltage going to the gas solenoid you may find zero volts going to the gas control. They are usually solenoid driven. 
On a mid 90s model the controller is a Tek321.  
Brivis had a recall on over 11,700 EMS2 heaters made between 1994 and 1997 due to a faulty circuit board (which they tried to deny when i rang their service (sic) centre)  
Anyway they stuffed me around for a while then sent out a tech who didnt follow proper start up procedure but flicked the power on and off rapidly (not a good idea IMO) and reckoned its not a recall but refused to  show me the part or explain why and wanted $470 to replace the board. Their customer service is appalling IMO.  
If you shop around you can buy the Tek 321 controller for under $280 and takes minutes to replace (and costs a whole lot less to Brivis i am sure).  
Does Brivis mention on their website or user manuals that its not a good idea to leave the unit with the power switched off power to the heater- no - why ? Cos it can "blow" the circuit board and they make money from it. 
I found out the hard way. I do not recommend Brivis.

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## maxpower

oops just to add, when the heater has been off for a while and is turned on the surge can blow the board especially when its a few years old and its been cold. Moral of the story is always leave the power connected to your heaters folks. Dont shut it off for summer etc. It aint worth it.

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## seriph1

first of all WELCOME to the forum! Hope you get your problem fixed. Someone mused that these units seem to break down at the same time  - ours (EM35 in-roof monster) displayed weird faults..... fan working first thing in the morning - then gets up to temp. goes back 4 or 6 degrees turns on but never gets to temp again. Went up top and saw the fan was working, system kept saying 'purge' - heater unit was turning on then off then on etc. Called Brivis who wanted 175 call-out fee plus parts  -  we are in KILMORE, which is an hour from Melbourne (greetings to the Wallan-ite in this thread!) - anyway I asked the original installer (business over the road from us) what he thought the problem might be ..... sounds like a FLAME SENSOR was his reply. Called Brivis again and asked how much  -  $70  -  then saw a number for spares on their site. Called it and got a flame sensor for $17 trade price. Got home  - got in the roof - fitted it in ten minutes and we are happ'nin baby! Good result all-round really, but I have to say Brivis was pretty inflexible seeing the system was only out of warranty by two weeks and cost more than 6 grand. 
but we are waaaaaaaarm n toasty up here in Kilmore, which can be a tad chilly   :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## maxpower

_...but I have to say Brivis was pretty inflexible.........._
yes, and i can think of a lot of other words to describe what i think of them....

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## futronix

Cheers everybody for their reply. :2thumbsup:   
I decided to take things into my own hands, turned off the unit. turned off pilot light, get rubber malet out.. knock the gas valve box (in/out box) 
fire up pilot again.... turn thermostat on.....Bobs ur uncle....  :Sneaktongue:   
Thanks all again for your replies, much appreciated  :Aussie3:

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## futronix

Cheers everybody for their reply. :2thumbsup:   
I decided to take things into my own hands, turned off the unit. turned off pilot light, get rubber malet out.. knock the gas valve box (in/out box) 
fire up pilot again.... turn thermostat on.....Bobs ur uncle....  :Sneaktongue:   
Thanks all again for your replies, much appreciated  :Aussie3:

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## maxpower

Are you serious ? you hit the gas control valve with a mallet and it worked ?
The gas valve is usually solenoid driven on late models and is operated by the electronic controller.
I hope the gas valve isnt stuck to the on position now and potentially allows uncombusted gases to flow if the pilot goes out.... Cheers

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## futronix

no solenoid is not stuck open..... lol... 
our is a old style ducted.... never been serviced....
and no i dont recommend anyone hit it with a hammer... :Doh:   
jus thought i would give it a try and it worked... i kinda knew in the first place that it was the solenoid as I tested that there was enough current to trip the solenoid.

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## rkg

Hi,
I am trouble in getting my ducts on when central heating is on. It shows all i.e. fan running, gas seems to be fired as only radiant heat is coming out of all the ducts but no flow of air?
any suggestions? what is the location of Motto? 2-3 montsh ago it came out and service man fixed it and got $100 (just plug in)--I am wondering whether it came out again?
pl suggest

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## seriph1

So many variable, but it sounds to me like the main duct has fallen off, which is what happened to ours at first..... the heat melted the crap gaffer tape they used and down she came ..... went into the roof space and it was lovely and warm ...... the heating bill that month was something to be believed! I suggest getting up in the roof and checking that first. After that, if you can verify that the fan is operational, it may be that the unit is 'cycling' but not getting to full throttle so to speak. This is what happened in our case .... we could hear it running and all that but no joy out of the ducts. I bought a replacement thermocouple and presto..... then I bought another for the next time it fails.

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## gt88

> So many variable, but it sounds to me like the main duct has fallen off, which is what happened to ours at first..... the heat melted the crap gaffer tape they used and down she came ..... went into the roof space and it was lovely and warm ...... the heating bill that month was something to be believed! I suggest getting up in the roof and checking that first. After that, if you can verify that the fan is operational, it may be that the unit is 'cycling' but not getting to full throttle so to speak. This is what happened in our case .... we could hear it running and all that but no joy out of the ducts. I bought a replacement thermocouple and presto..... then I bought another for the next time it fails.

  We've currently got the same problem. Fans spin, pilot lights up but nothing comes out of the ducts. 
Tomorrow ill change the gaffer tape and see if that does the trick. Otherwise ill try changing the thermocouple, but my question is where abouts do I buy one from and is it easy to install? 
Cheers

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## Tools

If your fan is on and burners are on then the thermocouple is not the problem. If your thermocouple is knackered then your pilot will not stay lit. There must be a duct that has fallen off somewhere. 
Tools

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## gt88

> If your fan is on and burners are on then the thermocouple is not the problem. If your thermocouple is knackered then your pilot will not stay lit. There must be a duct that has fallen off somewhere. 
> Tools

  Cheers buddy. But the thing is nothing is coming out of any ducts so i guess there must be something wrong with the two main ducts coming out of the unit. Will change the gaffer tape tomorrow and check all ducts.

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## seriph1

if the ducts are off then hot air will be raging throughout your roof space, and that'll be easy to fix.... If it isnt that, then I believe a call to the Brivis hotline (number should be on your t/stat) may be in order..... or a local service agent if you know one..... the fault I described was fixed by changing the thermocouple, which took minutes. Though I am trained in electronics engineering, I can't recall anything that was particularly difficult. One piece of advice again, even though I mentioned it previously..... buy another one for next time. The place I bought them from was in West Melbourne but I can't recall their name ..... will try and find the receipt. You'll obviously need to know the precise model number of your unit. For what it's worth, ours has two thermocouples. I replaced both.... they bend over time due to the heat, then they fail. As mentioned, our unit turned on...... fans ran..... gas ignited and then turned off...repeatedly.

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## gt88

Our ducted heating is acutally under the house. I went under the house today and noticed that one of ducts had a problem which what caused no air to come out. The core bit which is inside the insulation snapped and blocked the air going through. 
Rang up spare parts and they quoted $60 for 6m worth of core, insulation and sleeve for the 12" 1300mm (this is what it said on the sleeve). Not sure what the 1300mm is. Does it matter if I buy a 12" 500mm (for example)? 
Anyone know of any other places that sell the core, insulation and sleeve?

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## Terrian

> Our ducted heating is acutally under the house. I went under the house today and noticed that one of ducts had a problem which what caused no air to come out. The core bit which is inside the insulation snapped and blocked the air going through.

  Had a problem with the lack of heat to 2 ducts, bathroom & bedroom, turns out the duct tape let go at one of the joins, the spiders under the house had been kept nice & warm for a day or 2, have to get some decent cloth tape I think.   

> Anyone know of any other places that sell the core, insulation and sleeve?

  I did see ducting at Bunnings a month or three ago. I didn't really take any notice of the size or price though, sorry.

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## gt88

> I did see ducting at Bunnings a month or three ago. I didn't really take any notice of the size or price though, sorry.

  Thanks for that mate. Will head down there in the coming days for a look. 
Can anyone help me with the 1300mm thing? I know it has to be 12" due to the extract from the unit which the ducts connect to is 12" but im not sure what the 1300mm relates to.

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## seriph1

Why can't it just be reattached?

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## Gail

> If your fan is on and burners are on then the thermocouple is not the problem. If your thermocouple is knackered then your pilot will not stay lit. There must be a duct that has fallen off somewhere. 
> Tools

  Hi
We have only lived here 6 months and other house had a younger heater than this one which is a Buffalo approx 80's model Now when we light the pilot it stays on while heating but when we switch the manual thermostat off the pilot goes out and have to go and relight each time Brivis want $175 to come out (ripoff)  :Shock:  Any ideas and what is a thermocouple  :Redface: 
Also does anyone know if a model this old can have an electronic thermostat instead of the manual type
Presume someone other than Brivis can come and look (hopefully cheaper)

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## Gail

Just looked up thermocouple on How stuff works

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## liverrot

I had a problem with the pilot light not staying on. The pilot would light but as soon as you release the pilot button it would go out. Mine is a Brivis Buffalo 85 central heating unit. Following everyones advice (thanks!), I went and bought a thermocouple and my heater now works. I got a Brivis Thermocouple (part B009065) from Totaline, Roden St in West Melbourne. I could have got a Honeywell equivalent from Reece but I decided to get the Brivis branded one. I probably got touched in the process at $50. I installed it myself by removing the whole pilot assemby which involved the capillary tube fitting and pilot gas pipe fitting and one screw on the pilot assembly. I then yanked out the thermocouple with a pair of pliers then pushed in the new thermocoupling by hand. I then loosely refitted the pilot unit, the pilot gas pipe and the new capillary tube taking care to not cross threads which is dead easy to do. Then  tightened everything and tested for leaks with soapy water. Then started it up and it worked just like a bought one!

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## Chexfxdx

> I had a problem with the pilot light not staying on. The pilot would light but as soon as you release the pilot button it would go out. Mine is a Brivis Buffalo 85 central heating unit. Following everyones advice (thanks!), I went and bought a thermocouple and my heater now works. I got a Brivis Thermocouple (part B009065) from Totaline, Roden St in West Melbourne. I could have got a Honeywell equivalent from Reece but I decided to get the Brivis branded one. I probably got touched in the process at $50. I installed it myself by removing the whole pilot assemby which involved the capillary tube fitting and pilot gas pipe fitting and one screw on the pilot assembly. I then yanked out the thermocouple with a pair of pliers then pushed in the new thermocoupling by hand. I then loosely refitted the pilot unit, the pilot gas pipe and the new capillary tube taking care to not cross threads which is dead easy to do. Then  tightened everything and tested for leaks with soapy water. Then started it up and it worked just like a bought one!

  Hi all, 
I know this is a pretty old thread and I apologies for dragging it back up but I have only just had this same problem arise with my Brivis Buffalo 85, Now I can get a multifit thermocouple for about $20 but I am a bit unsure as to how to remove the pilot assembly.  :Confused:  
Could anyone give me a quick run-down on what I need to disassemble to change the thermocouple? 
Cheers,
Glenn

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## nickykat

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can advise what I can replace an "Enerstat K4W" thermostat / controller with? I currently have this connected to a Brivis Auto EMS Gas Ducted Heater. I'm not overly familiar with this sort of thing but believe the control unit is causing my heater to not work. I get a battery light permanently showing on the K4W unit and my heater is not turning on. I've checked the pilot light is on and have pushed the "Manual" switch on the heater unit on. This successfully turns on the fan (I don't get hot air though which I think is normal?). I have checked that I have 24vac on the control unit coming from the heating unit which is why I'm suspecting the Thermostat unit is the issue (again though I'm not very familiar with any of this).

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## ozheat

If you want to test if the problem is a faulty thermostat or not, just bridge the 2 wires from the heater (connections R & W on heater) going to the thermostat together.  This should cause the heater to fire up the burners, if it fires up you having themostat probs, if not you have control board problems.

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