# Forum More Stuff Debate & Technical Discussion  The age old question - Should we be paying contractors for lunch?

## Lpasteur

Hello Renovators, 
My mom is in the 8th week of her kitchen remodel.  Gone are the original cabinetry from when she moved in to the house in the 1970's and in are some beautiful looking Omega cabinets, Cambria countertops, wood tile and other changes throughout the house. 
The general contractor with whom we have been working has been a real craftsman.  He has done a great job and the  workers he has brought in have been very conscientious, save for a couple of broken items.  At the end of every week, I am emailed his rate of service, along with "non-subcontractors" labor.  He usually has two to three people with whom he brings to the job and they are paid individually with a separate rate per hour by us as well. 
What we have found is that they do not "clock out" for lunch.  Somewhere between 12pm and 1pm daily, they stop working and spend time in the backyard eating for 30-50min, variably.  When my mom gently said after giving them their most recent paychecks, "I didn't know that lunch was included in the work day.  I didn't know you didn't clock out," the GC stated, "Oh yeah. We don't take breaks. We don't leave the job site."   He was very adamant about it.    
During lunch, we don't bother them (or have rarely bothered them with questions, possibly only in that first week).  I actually remember asking them questions during their seminal week but then I thought about it and said to myself, "I shouldn't bother them with questions during their lunch break.  That's not fair of me."  So I haven't since. 
I looked in the contract my mom signed and nothing is stated about paid lunch breaks.  I remember when we first met the contractor last year, he said that each person has their own time card and that they clocked out for lunch.  In this scenario, he is saying that unless he leaves the job site then he is "on the clock."  Nothing is in writing though 
Is this standard methodology for contractors?   Are they paid to eat lunch?  Nothing is in writing.  He says that they are not taking breaks, but yet they are sitting down and eating. As I wash dishes in the backyard, I know they are not talking about work.  Also, the whole idea of "non-subcontractor labor."  Even though the other men work with him, we pay them individually.  To me this is kind of weird.  I mean, if they work for him, shouldn't he be paying them?   Or does this save him money by not having to buy insurance for them since then he doesn't have a "company" of sorts?  I guess I'm not sure how this really works.   
Anyways, feedback would be appreciated.  Perhaps we are just being naive about this and anything you can give us to chalk this up to a learning experience would help.  We are in the home stretch of these renovations.  This is the house where my mom is supposed to continue her retirement well into her old age and it would be a shame if anything compromised that.

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## Bros

Those replying this is a post from a person in USA so there may or may not be similarities with Australia.

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## Marc

That's an interesting concept.
If your mum has a contract with the workers directly and the contract states that she is paying them by the hour then you may have a point that the time used for lunch should be excluded from the pay. 
If she has a contract with a builder and paying the builder by the hour, it all depends on what the contact says and how this builder hours are supposed to be billed.
Since she is most probably paying the builder by the day, I am afraid she would have no say in how the builder organises his and his team's day of work.

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## Lpasteur

> That's an interesting concept.
> If your mum has a contract with the workers directly and the contract states that she is paying them by the hour then you may have a point that the time used for lunch should be excluded from the pay. 
> If she has a contract with a builder and paying the builder by the hour, it all depends on what the contact says and how this builder hours are supposed to be billed.
> Since she is most probably paying the builder by the day, I am afraid she would have no say in how the builder organises his and his team's day of work.

  Do I assume what we call a "general contractor" in the States is what you call a "builder" in Australia?  Anyways, the GC is payed by the hour, as are his workers (the non-subcontractor laborers).  They work as much or as little in the day as they want, with no overtime pay, meaning they receive the same rate per hour regardless of the number of hours worked.   
For instance, yesterday they worked a 9 hour day which includes lunch.  Today they skipped our site work to go to another job, while tomorrow they are expected to start at 7am and finish by noon (So, hopefully they finish before lunch and we don't have to pay for them to eat).

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## jimfish

I don't think it's right to be paying for lunch break, we never charge client for time spent on a break whether it's onsite or off.

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## johnc

Rough rule of thumb regardless of US or Oz is smoko breaks are paid lunches aren't and you do break for lunch

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