# Forum Home Renovation Brickwork  Masonry anchors for deck ledger on brick veener wall

## minifreak75

I am building a timber deck attached to the house (brick veneer). I have consulted Ramset regarding masonry anchors for the ledgers and have been advised that both Chemset 101 and Ankascrews would be appropriate for my hollow (ten hole) wire cut bricks.  
I would like to hear from anyone with any experience or expertise regarding this. Specifically, are Ankascrews strong enough or should I spend the big bucks and use the Chemset?

----------


## rod1949

Ankascrews are the way to go  :2thumbsup: . I used them to hold down the steel wall frames of my house and around the perimeter with the fasteners/holes only 35mm from the edge of the slab there was no break out which would of happened if I used dynabolts or loxins. The Ankascrews are just like using a self tapping screw into metal but into concrete, brick etc. And they can be torque up to buggery.  I guess for your requirement you would need 150mm x 12mm dia ankascrews, being 50mm timber and the balance into the wall.  Do a test, buy one and try it.

----------


## ScroozAdmin

Ideally you need an engineer to calc this for you if its a structural member, personally I'd use chemical anchors if its hollow brick, all day. We have a similar product to ankascrews although in a screw version for battens, posts and window/door frames and joist hangers etc etc, they are superb in hollow brick as this was one of there primary design functions. 
Here's a movie if interested [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrv6mY4u-vg"]YouTube- raptr screw self tapping brick and concrete anchors[/ame] 
Probably a bit lightweight for your application though as most of your load will be in shear on the fastener so you want something 10 or 12mm dia.  :2thumbsup:

----------


## Bloss

How high is the deck? If a regular on-ground sort of height - 600mm to a metre or so then Rod1949 is on the money - Ankascrews or equivalents will be fine. Follow the instructions re sizing though - especially hold length taking into account the timber thickness - I recall minimum would be 100mm for 90x45mm ledger - but check. No need for chemset type stuff or engineers report.  :2thumbsup:  
Strictly no structural fixings should be made to the brick veneer as it is just a skin not designed to be load bearing. Commonsense prevails though and decks and other lightweight structures that will not impose big horizontal loads on the brickwork are often attached as the bricks and bolts can carry the mainly downward shear forces involved. 
Importantly though -if the deck is higher than 1m or so then you should never bolt just into the brick veneer - you will need to fix to the timber framing behind. A good number of catastrophic deck failures causing injury and death have been due to decks that come away from the brick wall when dynamically loaded with moving partygoers. Others from rotten timbers or rusted fixtures. Always traceable to poor construction and/or maintenance practices.

----------


## ScroozAdmin

> No need for chemset type stuff or engineers report.

  sorry but disagree entirely with that, you need a lot more info about the job before making that call, I've done loads of site pull tests over the years and chemical anchors out perform any mechanical anchor 10 fold every time. 
I'd guarantee a screwbolt will pull out of the brick if tested properly, where chemset will pull the whole brick out or destroy it in the process. Ankascrews have there place but they are not always the best option.

----------


## Bloss

Disagree all you like - I qualified on the nature of the deck and the forces likely to be applied to it. 
As I said on a low deck all forces are almost always down not sideways so pulling out of any bolt is rare. If there is a possibility of the structure being hit with a vehicle for example adjacent to a driveway then the bolts should always go through to the timber frame on a brick veneer house - not chemset fixtures which are not a substitute. I did not suggest that a chemset is not stronger than an ankascrew or dynabolt etc against a pull force - just that for deck like this such forces are low so chemset is not needed - the mechanical attachment is sufficient. 
As I also said a deck of any significant height is an entirely different matter. What the OP seems to be describing is a low hazard ground level deck  - a simple structure built in the thousands every year using ankascrews or dynabolts or equivalent and lasting twenty years or more easily and safely. But I asked the OP to confirm that too. 
As I also said failures are commonly down to poor workmanship - not the fixing type eg: wrong size (thickness or length), too few, incorrectly installed and so on. 
But you are entitled to your view, my experience tells me I don't need to change mine. [Haven't lost a deck yet . . .  :Biggrin:  - and use chemset when needed, and bolt through to the timber frame when needed too!) ] 
I have my signature on every post: we can only advise on what we know - the poster has to take responsibility to do it right as we are working on just words and occasional picture. For this post I stick by my advice.  :Cool:

----------


## ScroozAdmin

> my experience tells me I don't need to change mine. [Haven't lost a deck yet . . .  - and use chemset when needed, and bolt through to the timber frame when needed too!) ]

  I agree, most building professionals would use there experience to determine the best product for the job and/or how to tackle it, I just think we have to be careful when recommending products to people who maybe haven't used them much (particularly ankascrews). I have seen lots of amateurs (and pros) think they've installed something right and its been completely wrong so I see no harm in overspeccing or recommending an engineer casts an eye over it, simple bolts calcs are quick and cheap and don't involve big expensive reports.  :Smilie:  
incidentally, just for info, the original, best and only anchor screw with any type of extensive test report for brickwork is this (although there all English so not much use here), everything else is a copy.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Bloss

That design with a coarser thread looks as though it would bind less which the ankascrews often do (before screwing fully home). I suppose it's a balance between ease of getting into place vs the right amount of friction to make sure it doesn't come loose. But we have such a great range of options in fasteners and fixing tools through technology advances in the last 15-20 years - well beyond the basics I learnt on.  :2thumbsup:

----------


## Jackson

the brick veneer can make your look more beautiful. :Smilie:

----------

