# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  Nail gun - worth getting?

## Saltypete

I have about 16 metres of wall framing to do, some 3.6 m high. 16 m2 of ceiling and some fancy bulkhead.My last Reno I used hammer and nails, and drilled and screwed where nailing would shake things apart  Am tossing up whether to get a nail gun, and if so what sort. 
i will probably buy second hand and sell when I am finished. Have used a nail gun before, but no expert.
have seen all sorts second hand and new, but a bit confused the best way to go.  I would be grateful for advice from those in the know.

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## Micky013

Got a compressor already? You can pick up a bunnings gun for around $100

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## OBBob

What's the ceiling? It might not all be a framing gun.  
Have you looked at getting it prefab... sometimes the cost isn't much different but you don't have to do the work!

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## ChocDog

Hell yeah. Mine's been a savour. Bought it from hardware sales.com in the US. Much cheaper than oz. Hitachi nr90 (IIRC) framer.

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## METRIX

Might be cheaper to hire one, Bunnings hire the Paslode for $25 a day I think. 
If you were going to get one, I would get a New Paslode from ebay for around $560, don't bother with 2nd hand, as most have had a hard life.
If you look after it then you can sell it on ebay for a couple of hundred, or if you have a compressor, get an air version. 
If you buy a no name don;t expect to get much when selling it, if you buy a Paslode, plenty of apprentices will bid for it.

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## OBBob

I have a Bostitch framer ... Nothing helps you pretend you know what you're doing like a nail gun!  :Tongue:

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## joynz

From my DIY perspective, the Paslode gas gun is brilliant - particularly because we are nailing into 50 year old hardwood.   
I thought it was horribly over priced when purchasing, but has been worth it, even for the couple of walls, framing up windows, and wardrobes we have done so far.   
For the fixing, we just bought an air cheapie from Bunnings - Project Air and a really good value upright Taurus compressor from Aldi!  Taurus air gun was rubbish though.  Tried 2 and returned both. 
If you are working by yourself, a nail gun really helps.  Heavy though.

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## ChocDog

> I have a Bostitch framer ... Nothing helps you pretend you know what you're doing like a nail gun!

  Ha! Glad to hear it's not only me who thinks that.

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## METRIX

> Ha! Glad to hear it's not only me who thinks that.

  Until you shoot your hand, then you wish you did know what you were doing  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> Until you shoot your hand, then you wish you did know what you were doing

  Yep and that's why I've never wanted one of the ones that had the knock firing option (or whatever it's called).

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## METRIX

> Yep and that's why I've never wanted one of the ones that had the knock firing option (or whatever it's called).

  Bump Firing, you can switch it off if you don't like it,  
I must have shot more than 80,000 framing nails, and I have only been hit once, it was from a nail that deflected from a knot and came out the side, it got my index finger, went in the side and out the top, and it bloody hurt, blood flying out everywhere, couldn't be bothered to get down and find the first aid kit, but had a roll of electrical tape handy, taped it up this stopped the bleeding straight away, kept working, hurt for a few days, but was ok after that. 
 it was about 3mm from where the cipro saw attacked me and ended up with 6 stitches, maybe I should have that finger removed, its always in the way  :Tongue: .

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## OBBob

He he... bit too much Macgyver.

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## METRIX

> He he... bit too much Macgyver.

  Nice hair, are you secretly growing yours to be like that OBBob

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## OBBob

> Nice hair, are you secretly growing yours to be like that OBBob

  If only there was enough... sigh.

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## METRIX

> If only there was enough... sigh.

  Brace yourself Bob, I have the answer  :Biggrin:   :Tongue:   :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

Can always rely on you for a solution... although I feel a little nauseous.

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## METRIX

> Can always rely on you for a solution... although I feel a little nauseous.

  Don't worry, once you put this on that nausea will be the least of your worries.
You can even get one for Mrs OBBob  
.

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## toooldforthis

the things you see when you don't have a (nail) gun ...

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## Saltypete

Ahh, that's the issue for me....... So, if I am going to get a nail gun  :Biggrin:  am I right in thinking a framing gun won't do things like the bulkheads etc? Or is there something that does both well?

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## Saltypete

Ceiling is for an ensuite and a WIR. Do you mean prefab wall frames?

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## OBBob

> Ahh, that's the issue for me....... So, if I am going to get a nail gun  am I right in thinking a framing gun won't do things like the bulkheads etc? Or is there something that does both well?

  So a framing gun will shoot 70mm-90mm framing nails (generally). It'll be good for any framing you need to do with 90mm x 45mm framing timber. However, it's way too powerfull for smaller stuff such as architraves for example.  
I'm not sure what you mean by bulkheads ... if it's the framework then it should be good ... if it's to line them, then not so good.

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## OBBob

> Ceiling is for an ensuite and a WIR. Do you mean prefab wall frames?

  
If you mean you want to use it for ceiling joist work then it should be ok. Not suitable if you mean you want to using for hanging brackets (for example).   
I meant prefab wall frames ... they make them to your spec and deliver them in manageable sections.

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## r3nov8or

> Ahh, that's the issue for me....... So, if I am going to get a nail gun  am I right in thinking a framing gun won't do things like the bulkheads etc? Or is there something that does both well?

  Bulkheads, ceiling framing, wall frames, anything involving 70x35 or larger timber really, need a framing nailer. Finishing nailers are for skirts, archs, cabinets/joinery. I have both, and both are gas versions. If working alone, you can hold frames together by skew nailing with a finishing nailer (mine goes up to 14g 62mm) but you need to follow up with hand nailing.

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## r3nov8or

Oh, and to your original question, a nail gun is absolutely worth getting. It's like having a third hand.

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## Saltypete

Excellent! Will buy a flaming framing nail gun  :2thumbsup: . I think that I will be using it over a few weeks/months on and off, so will probably not hire.  So - what is a good brand/type to look for?  Features etc.   Ideally buy second hand and perhaps sell afterwards. Plaslode have come up in this conversation - should I head that way?  Any to steer away from?

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## r3nov8or

Paslode is a good brand. In gas guns, it's like iPhone. People trust that what they do they do well (not perfect, by very good). Second hand, unless you can try first, and know what you are looking at, might be risky. Once you have one, you'll be "the mate" that has a Paslode. Buy one, and justify keeping it by the money you've saved DIYing.

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## Marc

Pete, when considering buying a nail gun, think in terms of the nail you want to use not the gun. 
Once you zero in on the type of nail you are likely to need, then you have two ... well 3 choices: Air, gas or battery. I wouldn't even consider battery but some do like them.
Air will of course require a compressor and dragging around the house, gas needs gas cartridges, is a tad slower and will poison you in closed quarters.
As far as brands, for pneumatic i would go Hitachi, Bostich, Senco, for gas, Paslode. 
Remember a framer will be only good for very large nails, in a renovation you are likely to need at least a bradder for achitraves and skirting boards, a T nailer if you want to top nail floors, a coil gun for fencing ... etc

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## Micky013

Id only consider paslode for any gun but thats just me. Hate hitachi framer - have used two different ones that spit nails out sideways when clip gets low.  
Look hard online and you can get the paslode frame master (air) for around $350 - i did about 2 years ago. Otherwise your looking at $600-$700 for gas version in which case it might pay to wait till someone does the bundle deal first and second fix gas guns for $900

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## shauck

And, by the way, Paslode framing gums do take smaller nails. Paslode Dekfast nails are one type. which I used to fix fence palings to rails as I didn't have a coil gun. Worked really well.

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## joynz

We have regularly used 50mm nails with the Paslode to attach battons to lower the ceilings slightly, as well as 75mm for studs, noggins, laminating beams etc. 
Didn't know about the fencing possibilities - but now I'm thinking...

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## Saltypete

Thanks for all of that! A framing gun is the way I'll go. I'll start looking..... :Wink:

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## AndreReno

I've read much of the post above, but not all, hope I'm not repeating too much of the above question - answers.  
I am in a similar situation , asking myself whether I really need a nail gun.  
I have some framing to do, probably will drag on for a week at least, then some more 6 months later, so it's not financially viable to HIRE a gun at $90 per day.  I considered just doing it by hammer, but some comments above, indicate it would be much easier for someone working largely SOLO, to have a gun. 
I will be framing 90x45 pine on the second storey. However, the existing ground floor structure is very old jarrah.  Will a paslode gas gun nail into it. Some of the jarrah could be 100 years plus. House was built in 1893. 
When using a hammer, I wouldn't care some much about pre-drilling, but you care if you bought a $600 gun, only to have to toggle between a drill and back. 
So my question is: is it worth it, how hard is it to put framing together, working alone,  using a hammer in comparison to a nail gun?
I also have two small gable roofs to put on. Again, working mostly be myself. 
Will the paslode gas gun deal with the old jarrah without predrilling?

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## Saltypete

Hi Andrereno,
i ended up buying a new Paslode framer. I have used it to erect a temporary wall to separate my Reno and its dust from the rest of the house. It works great with 90x45 and I was able to build it single handed, even with top plates on my 3.5 ceiling.
i am in the same position as you and will use it on and off over the next few months. Definitely a good tool buy. I plan on selling it when I am finished.
As to whether it will go into 100 yo jarrah, I happen to have some.  Will try in the next few days and let you know....

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## ChocDog

Definitely look at buying from the US. Try hardwaresales.com. so much cheaper. If you've got an air compressor, or have reason to buy one, even better, air guns are cheaper. My Hitachi cost me about 200 bucks, compared with 700 here.

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## AndreReno

Thanks Saltypete, I'll look forward to hearing how you went with the old jarrah.

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## AndreReno

Thanks for the tip ChocDog, I'll check out the US sites.

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## AndreReno

How about this one.  Hardware Sales: Paslode CF325Li 902600 3-1/4-inch Li-Ion Cordless Framing Nailer
Seems to be ridiculously cheap, even after adding 20% for the US - AUD conversion.

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## AndreReno

It seems, paslode Aust are keen to scare Australians away from buying US versions.
Typical market segmentation we get here in Aus. http://www.paslode.com.au/Media/Docu...%20Sheet-3.pdf

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## shauck

You may find that nailing into very old hardwood with a Paslode, may still require pre-drilling. Only way to tell is to try without pre-drilling first and see if the nail goes all the way. If it goes half way in, pre-drilling will fix that. Trying to just hammer the gun nail the rest of the way will have you ending up with bent nails most likely, unless they are only just above the surface and even then they might still bend. It's still going to be way more convenient and easier than using a hammer.

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## AndreReno

Thanks for the tip Shauk.  I don't think I will have too much of the old jarrah, hopefully!.
I will be framing the second storey with pine, so I'll get the use out of it, even if I have to predrill the old jarrah.

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## AndreReno

Strange,, I don't understand this.... I just read a review on Amazon for the paslode.  In the product description it says:   "Not Recommended For Driving 3" & 3-1/4" Nails Into Pressure Treated Lumber.." so doesn't that mean all the treated pine we use, as it is all pressure treated...., is not recommended to be nailed with this machine??? 
(I know this is an American site, but it is reviewing the Aust version (branded Impulse) not American version (branded Cordless)  )... ...

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## METRIX

[QUOTE=AndreReno;967577 
Will the paslode gas gun deal with the old jarrah without predrilling?[/QUOTE] 
If your going through pine into Jarrah there wont be a problem, if your going through Jarrah into something else it will not get all the way through the jarrah.
It does give it a good go, a 75mm nail will probably make it about 50mm through, you can then hit the rest home, but as Shauck said, most likely the nail will bend. 
Australian hardwoods are bloody strong, if they have been sitting in a house frame for many years are well and truly seasoned, and like steel.
 I have a Fasco Air framer which will get framing nails through seasoned hardwood without an issue. 
You can't predrill and use the framing gun, you would never line the gun up to the hole, if you decide to predrill the only option is to hand nail.

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## METRIX

> Strange,, I don't understand this.... I just read a review on Amazon for the paslode.  In the product description it says:   "Not Recommended For Driving 3" & 3-1/4" Nails Into Pressure Treated Lumber.." so doesn't that mean all the treated pine we use, as it is all pressure treated...., is not recommended to be nailed with this machine??? 
> (I know this is an American site, but it is reviewing the Aust version (branded Impulse) not American version (branded Cordless)  )... ...

  There is two important words they left out of the wording "ring shank" if you read the paslode manual it specifically says ring shank not recommended.
Why, this is because they say the pressure treated timber being wet makes it harder for the ring shank nails to get all the way in. 
Don't know about ring shank as I have never used them, nor do I know any other Paslode owners who have ever used them.
Mayby this is a US problem, as the only "Wet" pressure treated timber we have here is landscape grade timber which is usually dripping wet. 
100% of the framing timber we use is H2 / H3 pressure treated pine, or LVL and never had any problems with the gun getting through any if it, over the years my Paslodes have shot 10's of thousands of nails. 
The problem with the internet is most sites copy another sites information, so if one site gets it wrong everyone uses the same information, always best to read the manufacturers manual.

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## seriph1

While this has probably been well covered I'll add my 2 cents worth: I have found nail guns to be an invaluable inclusion in my kit. I've just walked in from adding three 1.8 metre floor-joist bracing members to the verandah I'm repairing on our place. (I decided to double up the joists in the highest traffic spot) It took me literally a few minutes. No digging nails out of nail bags and no bent nails (something that can occur to even the best carpenters)  
The gun I used is the new DeWalt two-speed cordless framing gun, which hasn't let me down for a moment. I bought this over the other guns in the market due to it NOT requiring gas. My decision was also assisted by the reviews and my experience with my other DeWalt products. As far as the material etc. goes: I was driving 75mm nails into the 45mm sides of 70mm x 45mm messmate that has been in the house since it was built 130 years ago, so this stuff is HARD! Over the three 1.8 spans I nailed maybe 12 nails (6 either side at an angle) and did that repeatedly until done ... the gun didn't miss a beat. This makes me wonder at the statement about other guns not being able to nail easily into pressure treated lumber, which I imagine must be Pine. 
Actually, it took longer to find my glue gun than it did to nail off the members.   :Smilie:  
FWIW regarding nail guns, here's what I have: 
DeWalt Cordless
14.4V angle finish nailer
18V angle finish nailer
18V angle framing nailer 
Air driven: 
Starke flooring (secret) nailer - can't praise this godsend highly enough!
Generic framing nailer

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## Marc

In relation to ring shank nails ... they are designed to have a stronger hold, and are therefore harder to drive, a simple equation. 
I use galvanised ring shank nails to fix treated pine balusters and find that if the pressure gets under 90 psi the gun does not drive the nail home. In fact I changed the pressure regulator on my compressor just for that purpose so it keeps the pressure above 90 all the time. I also smear some grease on the end of the strip of nails before loading them.
A gas gun as far as I know, I don't have one hate the smell, does not have the ability to change the pressure of the bang, so it would probably struggle with ring shank nails in treated pine simply because treated pine is dry and the chemicals make the nail grind to a halt. Wet timber would be OK.

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## AndreReno

Thanks for all your input guys, on the nail guns, nail issues, benefits of a good nail gun.
I'm thinking, based on what everyone has said, I'll need to pilot drill the jarrah and hand nail but it might be worth getting the gun for the month and a half of framing I need to do.
I say "might be" because speed is actually not important, as I will over-think and double check every cut and fix before I squeeze the trigger. Nailing time is insignificant. I'm thinking that doing almost all of the work alone, will dictate I not try swinging a hammer while holding and plumbing frames in place etc. I guess some old school guys would disagree, but I don't have their experience to do such a task. 
ps. Steve, I"ve read reviews of the the dewalt gun, some say it is a brillian gun, but some reviews have said it can't really sink 90mm nails. Not sure what  your experienc is, you mention 75mm.
I have just bought an AEG drill / driver combo, brilliant tools, the impact driver drives at 180nm!!, received 2 x 5AHM Batts. But unfortunately AEG only make a finishing nailer. If they had a framing nailer, what to buy would have been a no-brainer given the batteries I already have and the experience of the combo.

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## ChocDog

My Hitachi + 90mm nails + 100 yr old house frame = aok.

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## Saltypete

FWIW, here is the 75mm nail head in my 100 yo jarrah.
a bit inconclusive to me, the top piece is geranuim, below is the jarrah, which split..... :Annoyed:

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## METRIX

> FWIW, here is the 75mm nail head in my 100 yo jarrah.
> a bit inconclusive to me, the top piece is geranuim, below is the jarrah, which split.....

  No Pic ? 
But you need to bear in mind nailing into any old seasoned hardwood will chance splitting it, you have to be careful when not pre drilling hardwood.

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## jimfish

We frame in hardwood every job down here in Tassie. In my opinion a gas gun is not up to the job, only pneumatic guns will consistently drive nails home. We pre drill the plates when a stud is located on the end then nail with the gun.

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## seriph1

I have to agree with jimfish - for continuing seasoned hardwood work air trumps all.

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## seriph1

Metrix - you nailed it (sorry!) predrilling greatly reduces the chances of splitting ... And to folks concerned that doing so slows the job markedly that's true on the face of it, except when you factor in the reworking due to replacing split wood and the associated waste.

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## phild01

> We pre drill the plates when a stud is located on the end then nail with the gun.

  Is it that easy to pre-drill a hole and land the nail gun spot-on!

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## jimfish

I have two apprentices and even they can hit the spot most times. If you only have to put a couple of nails in then I would hand nail but for us gun nailing works well.

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## phild01

> You can't predrill and use the framing gun, you would never line the gun up to the hole, if you decide to predrill the only option is to hand nail.

  I would have thought this as well, I'll have to practice next time.

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## intertd6

> I would have thought this as well, I'll have to practice next time.

   It is possible with a little practice, I have had to pre drill on a couple of occasions even using a good pneumatic framing gun, KD grey ironbark trusses will stop any gun nail, predrilling for a paslode gas gun is a given in HWD, even green flooded gum will pull then up, there is a better model which is supposed to have 30% more power which maybe more successful but I haven't used one yet.
regards inter

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