# Forum Home Renovation Roofing  metal barge/fascia alternative?

## AndrewPatrol

Anyone got any comments on using a folded colourbond fascia instead of those metal fascia systems with the creases in them ( not keen on the creased look ). Reasons being that I dont want to have to get up ( 2nd storey - 33 degrees pitch ) every five years to repaint them but prefer look of timber ( relatively smooth ). Would use brackets from metal system though. Is there a reason for creases? 
Thoughts please?

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## journeyman Mick

Andrew,
the creases are there to stiffen it up. Witout them putting it up would be like trying to wrestle a 6M length of half cooked pasta into place. :Annoyed:   
Mick

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## AndrewPatrol

> Andrew,
> the creases are there to stiffen it up. Witout them putting it up would be like trying to wrestle a 6M length of half cooked pasta into place.  
> Mick

  fair enough, but with enough hands, and considering the short runs I have would there be any other probs. Surely once in position it'd be ok????

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## journeyman Mick

Andrew,
should be okay, but you may find that your custom pressed profile may be hollow or cupped somewhat between the top and bottom folds. 
Mick

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## pawnhead

> Andrew,
> should be okay, but you may find that your custom pressed profile may be hollow or cupped somewhat between the top and bottom folds. 
> Mick

  I'd agree with that.  
And any slip ups and you'll end up with kinks and distortions that you'll never get out.

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## jon46089

Our problem and this post is also related to the post  http://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...ghlight=fascia
Wooden fascia - repair or colorbond it. 
Basically, during install of new tiles on our 80+ year old house, we discovered major problems with rotted fascias and barge boards.
The problem originates from the crappy building technique where painters arrive after the building is erected and paint only what can be seen. 
This allows the scotia moulding to get wet and rot when tile pointing cracks, and then water seeps in behind the scotia causing rot of the fascia boards. At least this is what happened to our house.  
We have around 80 lineal meters of these large style 230 mm wide fascia / barge boards.
Apart from $1500 for purchase of new 230 mm wide fascia, the install would take about two weeks for two guys ($3500) since the fascia is also not held very securely (mainly by tile battens) and the proper support for the fascia rafter would be to fix it back to the internal rafters. So the total price for this work would be around $5K. Of course, this does not include replacing the original pattern pine lining boards under the eaves, likely to be damaged by this work.  
Compare this to cutting out a few rotten sections and stiffening up the fascia rafter with angle iron connections back to internal rafters. The following technique also keeps the patterned pine lining boards under the eaves.  
We drew up sections of plane 0.6mm thick colorbond flashing with two folds, so that the top of the outside matched the top of existing fascia, and the top of the inside section was close to the eave lining. The original style scotia moulding is fixed through the colorbond into the top of the timber fascia. The scotia covers the outer edge of the flashing to prevent water entry and keeps everything looking original,. The cost of the 80 lineal meters of colorbond flashing bent to our specific profiles was $800 (from Robot Trading), about $10 per meter. The maximum length of folded colorbond is 6 meters so most sections of the roof required two pieces. There were no hollows or kinks in our custom folded profiles.  
There is also 80 lineal meters of 32 x 32 mm scotia moulding, but this would also be required with 230 mm wide fascia / barge boards. All surfaces of the scotia were primed and painted before install.  
Bottom line, is that it only took two days to complete the installation of colorbond fascia covers (they are not really heavy). They look great, just plane, without grooves etc. and it is difficult to tell that they are not timber.  
I would highly recommend this technique to anyone. 
Jon

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## patty

Andrew you can get plain colorbond fascia without the profiles or what you call creases as the journey man as rightly pointed out it does help putting it up as it is more rigid my parents have just has their place done by a roof and guttering mob and they have plain flat fascia

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## pawnhead

> We have around 80 lineal meters of these large style 230 mm wide fascia / barge boards.
> Apart from $1500 for purchase of new 230 mm wide fascia

  $1,160 for 230x19mm H3 primed pine fascia. Maybe less if you shop around.  

> the install would take about two weeks for two guys

  Well if you can somehow make sure that they dont piss off to the pub as soon as you leave the site, then youd get a lot better value out of them. But if youre telling me that your chippies can only install four metres of fascia per man day, then Id say that you need to hunt around for some tradesmen instead of a pair of clowns.   

> ($3500) since the fascia is also not held very securely (mainly by tile battens) and the proper support for the fascia rafter would be to fix it back to the internal rafters. So the total price for this work would be around $5K.

  Jeez, its getting dearer by the minute. Didnt you have to fix up the rafter support anyway?   

> Of course, this does not include replacing the original pattern pine lining boards under the eaves, likely to be damaged by this work

  Your lining boards must be pretty rotten if theyre going to fall off all over the place, unless your chippies are bashing the hell out of everything in sight. Like I said. Dont employ clowns.  :Wink:   

> Bottom line, is that it only took two days to complete the installation of colorbond fascia covers (they are not really heavy). They look great, just plane, without grooves etc. and it is difficult to tell that they are not timber.  
> I would highly recommend this technique to anyone.

  Well a decent pair of chippies shouldnt take more than two days to replace the fascias in timber. 
But it will look like timber and you wont see any joins. I can tell its colourbond when I see lap joints, corner pieces, pop rivets, dimples, roofing screws and creases (if there are any), and your flat fascia has a timber backing. Theres a flat colourbond shop awning around the corner here that looks like a horses @rse. None of the lap joins are tight. Its cupped, creased and buckled all over the place and the rivets look horrible, although in fairness, its obviously too wide for a colourbond fascia without a backing board. As a deep shop awning it should have been done in a more solid steel, with flush welded joints if necessary.
Timber is undoubtedly more expensive (especially if you go for 25mm thick instead of 19), and it needs painting as well, and after a while, the joins will crack and it will need repainting. If youre not retiling at the time, then youll have to at least re-point if your replacing them. Its obviously much quicker and cheaper putting colourbond over a rotten fascia in this case, but timbers not as expensive as youve painted it out to be. If you paid me 5k to do it, Id think it was Christmas.  
A cursory glance at your post history brought this up:  

> Filling the holes with (West System 105 = good) epoxy didn't allow the new holes to be drilled within 1 or 2 mm of the old holes. 
> The drill eventually just wandered off into the the old hole. 
> My guess is that this is the first time anyone has had this experience (deadly silence) 
> So I have now moved the hinges about 5 mm and drilled fresh holes.

  Epoxys no good. Glue, and insert some match sticks nice and tight.  :Wink: 
You might find this post of interest. I've had no problems with misalignment of my doors, and they've been up for almost a year now. The leafs that the two swinging central leafs are swung off are bolted top and bottom, so it's as solid as swinging them off a jamb.

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## jon46089

The timber fascia is 230 x 32 (not 19 thick) and after looking around I didnt see cheaper than about $1300 for the 80 lineal meters.  
The original configuration was quite wobbly, but everything was in place, so I guess strengthening in situ could have worked. 
My fear was that removal of fascia (e.g. 7.2m length) would weaken everything too much and require a major rebuild. The original build did not seem good. 
The two week estimate was for the complete rebuild of perimeter of roof, with proper support for the fascia rafter fixed back into the internal rafters. The complete rebuild would pretty much have destroyed the old pine lining.
Of course I didnt go for this option.  
I concede now that much of the strengthening for rafter support could have been done before removal of the fascia and this could have avoided destruction of the pine lining boards under the eaves. But it seemed that the fascia itself was acting like the major structural member in some places. 
The colorbond fascia covers is still the least expensive option, and much easier and quicker to install since it is so light weight compared to fascia. 
Yes there are two overlap joints per fascia length, and a few (coloured) pop rivets at the corners, but even the timber would require joins. 
But with some care a lot of these things can be hidden or disguised. 
There are no creases, no roofing screws and the main fixing nails are hidden beneath the scotia moulding.
Best of all it wont need painting for a while. 
I am not suggesting that this approach is for everyone.
I realize that timber fascia will properly match the character of period house etc.
However, there may be some situations where the colorbond covers provide an attractive option that works OK and looks reasonable.

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## pawnhead

Yes, 32mm would be a lot dearer, but less likely to cup or twist. You don't get that problem with colourbond. If it's done well and looks good when it's installed, then you won't have to touch colourbond for a very long time _unless_ you live near a beach, where it could rust out within a month. I did a job on a beachfront, where the new colourbond guttering rusted out before the job was complete.
But timber will last a lifetime if all the joints and everything are primed before installation, and if it's repainted when it starts looking tired and the paint starts cracking or peeling. Most people couldn't be bothered getting up on a ladder every ten years or so, and they end up paying more in the long run.

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## Carpenter

> Timber is undoubtedly more expensive (especially if you go for 25mm thick instead of 19), and it needs painting as well, and after a while, the joins will crack and it will need repainting.

  I think I'll start using this for external timber priming in future. http://www.senseal.com.au/index.html
Its a two part epoxy sealer with the consistency of water, thus enabling it to soak in deep & set hard, locking up the timbers ability to be porous. Spendy no doubt, but not compared to the premature replacement of external timber. Also, another practice that will greatly extend the life of external timber is to use Polyurethane sealers like Sikaflex. Wherever you have timbers butting together (like the Scotia moulding to the barge as described above) place a bead of poly between the two before final fixing. This creates a complete seal between the two & stops any moisture being held there by capilary action, & so preventing the rot that would surely happen without this practice. Another method that will possibly go against the grain of conventional practice is to leave a gap where timber ends meet. Traditionally one would prime the ends then fix them together, but this does not prevent the capillary retention of moisture that will eventually win out over the primed ends resulting in degradation of the timber. The idea of the gap is to allow a space that is big enough to be filled by the polyurethane sealant. This will completely seal the timber ends as above, & also allow for the inevitable movement that will occur with timber. By having a poly filled joint the timber can move & flex & the poly will go with it, but the crucial seal is maintained. With the epoxy sealer & the polyurethane sealant implemented in practice, water penetration is greatly reduced & life expectancy of the job will be much improved.

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## pawnhead

That senseal sounds like a good product. I'll keep it in mind to offer to clients if they want to pay the extra.  :2thumbsup: 
Good tips with the _Sikaflex_ too. Max Bond's only a buck or two per tube. Yeh yeh, I know, and I don't need a lecture  :Wink:

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## Carpenter

> Max Bond's only a buck or two per tube. Yeh yeh, I know, and I don't need a lecture

  It could be free, but its no good if it doesn't work, & it doesn't. No flexability.  Sorry about the lecture, I just cant help it :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## journeyman Mick

> ...............Max Bond's only a buck or two per tube. Yeh yeh, I know, and I don't need a lecture

  
John,
if you get bostik seal and flex (polyurethane) in a sausage it works out reasonably cheap. 
Mick

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## Carpenter

> Good tips with the _Sikaflex_ too.

  I should tell you my handrail fixing method - I did a 140 x 40mm top handrail on a deck. Deck handrail joints are notorious for not being stable,( with good reason, it couldn't be any more exposed) particularly mitres (due to shrinkage). What I did was Domi all the intersections but have a 3mm gap. The domis locate & lock the pieces, them I fixed in place as per usual them follow up by filling the joints all the way around with Sikaflex in the appropriate brown tone. I make sure the joint is slightly overfilled & after about a week I come back & sand it down. Its a good idea to use a primer as recommended by Sika & you fill the joint entirely. Works like a treat but be careful about the moisture content of the handrail material because if its wet there's no way you'll get the mitres to stay anywhere near true. Probably good to use kiln dried, I like the spotted gum thats now getting around. :2thumbsup:

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