# Forum Home Renovation Bathrooms  Floor fall/screed help + bathroom design

## hurdler

Hi everyone  
Need some help with working out what to with my bathroom reno. This is a basic layout of what I'm planning. Room is double brick walls with cement? render and concrete floor (with 2 layers of bricks to take off  :Mad: ) 2400x1750 
So... 
I only have the one drain but as the frame less shower screen doesn't reach the floor it should work for both the shower and the floor. The fall in the shower is easy but I'm thinking of doing the floors with just fall in the two rows of tiles at the door (red arrows) and then level the rest. Is that acceptable?? It would stop the risk of water making it out of the room and really I'm only worried if worst case scenario the washing machine leaks or something. 
Also I understand that I can waterproof over or under the screed but many tile adhesives seems to not attach to water proofing membranes, is that correct?? and also time wise what would be the quickest (waiting periods etc) 
If I waterproof under the screed do I need a perfectly even surface as it might get a bit damaged from tile removing. 
Or if I waterproof on top isn't there a risk of damaging when tiling  
Thanks in advance for any help and all the info I've found here so far!

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hi everyone  
> Need some help with working out what to with my bathroom reno. This is a basic layout of what I'm planning. Room is double brick walls with cement? render and concrete floor (with 2 layers of bricks to take off ) 2400x1750 
> So... 
> I only have the one drain but as the frame less shower screen doesn't reach the floor it should work for both the shower and the floor. The fall in the shower is easy but I'm thinking of doing the floors with just fall in the two rows of tiles at the door (red arrows) and then level the rest. Is that acceptable?? It would stop the risk of water making it out of the room and really I'm only worried if worst case scenario the washing machine leaks or something. 
> Also I understand that I can waterproof over or under the screed but many tile adhesives seems to not attach to water proofing membranes, is that correct?? and also time wise what would be the quickest (waiting periods etc) 
> If I waterproof under the screed do I need a perfectly even surface as it might get a bit damaged from tile removing. 
> Or if I waterproof on top isn't there a risk of damaging when tiling  
> Thanks in advance for any help and all the info I've found here so far!

   If you terminate the fall at the end of the stud wall and at the end of the shower it should give the correct profile when the tiles from directions meet the existing floor.  This avoids the problem of tiled at opposing falls coming together resulting in a high edge.  A minimum fall would be 1 in 60.  Hope this helps.

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## hurdler

> If you terminate the fall at the end of the stud wall and at the end of the shower it should give the correct profile when the tiles from directions meet the existing floor.  This avoids the problem of tiled at opposing falls coming together resulting in a high edge.  A minimum fall would be 1 in 60.  Hope this helps.

  Sorry don't quite understand what you mean. 
Because I'm using fairly large (330mm) tiles and trying to stay away from having to cut angles where the fall lines would be if I angle the whole floor towards the drain I was planning on the approach of a flat area in the back of the room, fall in the shower towards the drain and fall of 2 tile lines from the door towards the back of the room (red arrow on drawing) 
I understand that I could end up with water in the back of the room but that would only be in case of a leak of some kind and soon the water would make it into the drain even if a little bit might sit on the tiles in the back, otherwise there would only be water in the shower cubicle where there will be fall towards the drain.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Sorry don't quite understand what you mean. 
> Because I'm using fairly large (330mm) tiles and trying to stay away from having to cut angles where the fall lines would be if I angle the whole floor towards the drain I was planning on the approach of a flat area in the back of the room, fall in the shower towards the drain and fall of 2 tile lines from the door towards the back of the room (red arrow on drawing) 
> I understand that I could end up with water in the back of the room but that would only be in case of a leak of some kind and soon the water would make it into the drain even if a little bit might sit on the tiles in the back, otherwise there would only be water in the shower cubicle where there will be fall towards the drain.

  To avoid angle overlaps on the edge of tiles that slope in different angles you must make sure they come together on a flat area. 
Looking at your drawing, the nib wall would be the place to do it. 
So the tiles on the bottom wall would be sloped ove about 606 mm, the tiles on the other side of the shower (right hand side of drawing) would also cover the same distance off the entry door/wall. 
The object is to get the two slopes to flat areas 'before' they cross each other. 
Are you with me now?

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## hurdler

> To avoid angle overlaps on the edge of tiles that slope in different angles you must make sure they come together on a flat area.  Yes absolutely 
> Looking at your drawing, the nib wall would be the place to do it. 
> So the tiles on the bottom wall would be sloped ove about 606 mm, the tiles on the other side of the shower (right hand side of drawing) would also cover the same distance off the entry door/wall. 
> The object is to get the two slopes to flat areas 'before' they cross each other. 
> Are you with me now?

  I believe I'm with u and it seems like we mean the same thing, but to confirm I've made a new colored version of my drawing. 
So the blue tiles in the shower slopes to the drain 
Yellow tiles slope from the door in to the bathroom to prevent flooding in rest of apartment, with the 60:1 ratio you mentioned earlier would that mean over the 660mm an 11mm fall?? I've seen figures in another post I believe of 60:1 in showers and 100:1 elsewhere  
and white tiles are flat.    
The part I was mostly worried about was if there were any regulations stopping me from having the flat section...

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## Oldsaltoz

> I believe I'm with u and it seems like we mean the same thing, but to confirm I've made a new colored version of my drawing. 
> So the blue tiles in the shower slopes to the drain 
> Yellow tiles slope from the door in to the bathroom to prevent flooding in rest of apartment, with the 60:1 ratio you mentioned earlier would that mean over the 660mm an 11mm fall?? I've seen figures in another post I believe of 60:1 in showers and 100:1 elsewhere  
> and white tiles are flat.    
> The part I was mostly worried about was if there were any regulations stopping me from having the flat section...

  You should have the two slopes intersect at the end of the new stud wall to avoid problems, so the blue needs to be shorter and yellow longer. 
As for the fall of 60 to 1. this is the minimum allowed in the Australian standards, you can go a lot steeper if you like but not less. 
Hope this helps.

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## hurdler

> As for the fall of 60 to 1. this is the minimum allowed in the Australian standards, you can go a lot steeper if you like but not less.

  If the standards state a minimum fall of 60:1 how can I then be allowed to have the flat floor section in the back of the room???

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## Oldsaltoz

Yes.

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## Billy22Bob

Just had a look at AS3740-2004 Appendix C - "Falls in Floor Finishes"
Quote.... 
C1 states - "water does not remain on the finished floor in a manner that can adversly affect the health or ammenity of the occupants or deteriorate building elements," 
C3 - fall ratios - The recommended for shower area is between 1:60 and 1:80.
The recommended in other wet areas is between 1:80 and 1:100.
Where falls steeper than 1:100 are not achievable, the effectiveness of the floor drainage should be confirmed to ensure it meets the primary consideration set down in Paragraph C1 above.  
1.5.28 Wet area = an area within a building supplied with water from a water supply and includes bathrooms, showers, laundries and sanitary compartments. Excludes kitchens, bar areas, kitchenettes or doemstic food and beverage preparation areas.

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## hurdler

> Just had a look at AS3740-2004 Appendix C - "Falls in Floor Finishes"
> Quote.... 
> C1 states - "water does not remain on the finished floor in a manner that can adversly affect the health or ammenity of the occupants or deteriorate building elements," 
> C3 - fall ratios - The recommended for shower area is between 1:60 and  1:80.
> The recommended in other wet areas is between 1:80 and 1:100.
> Where falls steeper than 1:100 are not achievable, the effectiveness of  the floor drainage should be confirmed to ensure it meets the primary  consideration set down in Paragraph C1 above.

  Cheers  :2thumbsup:  
I'll change the layout of the tiles and have the corner of the shower screen as a starting point. 
So I recon I'll stick to the 60:1 Fall in the shower (blue) 
Do a slight 5mm fall over the green tiles left to right 
And a 8-10mm fall on the yellow tiles bottom to top (about 850mm) with a slight slope left to right on the top to match the green fall, and also a slight slope right to left along the stud wall. The slopes should be gentle enough to allow me to lay my tiles without any problems.

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