# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Sealing Clouts ???

## Wotname

G'day All, 
The new villaboard is now in the bathroom fixed with gal clouts into hardwood frames and I am about to prepare for the waterproofing areas. 
What does the smart money do to seal the nail heads (especially under the waterproofing)? 
It seems depending on whose literature I read, I have several options.  Do nothingSeal the heads with epoxySeal the heads with something like Sikaflex IIFCApply some wet area base coat over the heads 
As there is no consistency in the literature, I am guessing there may be several "best practices" although I would think that the epoxy might be the best choice even if time consuming and slow while the Sikaflex would surely do the job and be quick. I'm using K10 rapid for the waterproofing. 
Your thoughts please.

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## phild01

Just to clarify a point, clouts should not be used but I assume you are confusing these with fibre cement nails which have a stronger and smaller head that finish flush.  As for waterproofing the heads, I would not be concerned too much about this, your K10 is sufficient.  In the shower area, the nails should not be in the bottom plate of the frame.  An additional plate should be installed higher for the fixing of the villaboard keeping nails well away from the shower floor area.

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## Wotname

> Just to clarify a point, clouts should not be used but I assume you are confusing these with fibre cement nails which have a stronger and smaller head that finish flush.  As for waterproofing the heads, I would not be concerned too much about this, your K10 is sufficient.  In the shower area, the nails should not be in the bottom plate of the frame.  An additional plate should be installed higher for the fixing of the villaboard keeping nails well away from the shower floor area.

   Thanks Phild01, 
Interesting point about nail choice. I went into the local building suppliers and asked for FC nails; they recommended FC nails for new (softwood) frames and clouts (30 x 2.8) for well seasoned hardwood frames. As my frames are around 60+ years old, I assume they are "well seasoned"; they are certainly bludi hard. I wasn't sure so asked another carpenter/builder and he said much the same. I took the clouts - maybe I got bad advice, maybe I didn't. The clouts don't finish flush but as I'm tiling everything, I am not expecting a problem with that aspect. 
However I did the additional plate bit right! 
I could of course, bang in another couple of Kg of FC nails in between the clouts  :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Thanks Phild01, 
> Interesting point about nail choice. I went into the local building suppliers and asked for FC nails; they recommended FC nails for new (softwood) frames and clouts (30 x 2.8) for well seasoned hardwood frames. As my frames are around 60+ years old, I assume they are "well seasoned"; they are certainly bludi hard. I wasn't sure so asked another carpenter/builder and he said much the same. I took the clouts - maybe I got bad advice, maybe I didn't. The clouts don't finish flush but as I'm tiling everything, I am not expecting a problem with that aspect. 
> However I did the additional plate bit right! 
> I could of course, bang in another couple of Kg of FC nails in between the clouts

  The advice you got was off the mark, fc nails come in 2.0 and 2.8.  The fibre cement nails recommended are 30 x 2.8.  Same measure as your clouts.  But as you say, old hardwood and I would have for this tried 25 x 2.8 clout if the 30mm fc nails kept bending  (fc don't seem to be available less than 30mm).    Hope you didn't use stud adhesive and put plenty of nails in.  As your nails aren't flush, you need to be careful with your tile adhesive choice.  I believe you will need a cement based adhesive like SE7 or powdermastic using a 10mm trowel. Maybe some tiling experts here can better recommend.

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## Wotname

> The advice you got was off the mark, fc nails come in 2.0 and 2.8.  The fibre cement nails recommended are 30 x 2.8.  Same measure as your clouts.  But as you say, old hardwood and I would have for this tried 25 x 2.8 clout if the 30mm fc nails kept bending  (fc don't seem to be available less than 30mm).    Hope you didn't use stud adhesive and put plenty of nails in.  As your nails aren't flush, you need to be careful with your tile adhesive choice.  I believe you will need a cement based adhesive like SE7 or powdermastic using a 10mm trowel. Maybe some tiling experts here can better recommend.

   Looks like I got a couple of things right  :Smilie: . 
Stud adhesive not used.
Plenty of nails used
Davco Powder Mastic is already on site
10mm trowel also on site 
I'll stop worrying about the clouts now! 
Thanks for your help.

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## phild01

No problem.  And don't forget your bond breakers and the fabric type reinforcement when using the waterproofing.  Look into puddle flanges as well or do similar.

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## Wotname

Yep, bond breakers and fabric on site; puddle flange installed  :Smilie:

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## Oldsaltoz

Standard practice with Villaboard is to leave a small dent, the old two bob mark. 
This is then filled with a sealant, Sikaflex 11FC would be just fine. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Standard practice with Villaboard is to leave a small dent, the old two bob mark. 
> This is then filled with a sealant, Sikaflex 11FC would be just fine. 
> Good luck.

  Why would you want to dent these nails in, especially since these are clouts in seasoned hardwood and likely to pull through the sheeting.  And why bother with the polyurethane.  Honestly, with good waterproofing and proper tiling, it just isn't necessary.  Even without waterproofing, good tiling will not see water penetration to any detriment.  The most important areas of waterproofing are the floor areas, the wall floor joints and competent tight framing.  I only see it as a means of insurance against substandard trades work, that may follow.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Why would you want to dent these nails in, especially since these are clouts in seasoned hardwood and likely to pull through the sheeting.  And why bother with the polyurethane.  Honestly, with good waterproofing and proper tiling, it just isn't necessary.  Even without waterproofing, good tiling will not see water penetration to any detriment.  The most important areas of waterproofing are the floor areas, the wall floor joints and competent tight framing.  I only see it as a means of insurance against substandard trades work, that may follow.

  Anything that passes through the sheet must be considered as a penetration. 
Putting a small dent in the board around the nail ensures it will have full cover and not protrude. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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