# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Are plumbers scared of sharkbite

## phild01

An Australian made and an in-wall approved pipe fitting for pex and copper.  It fascinates me that plumbers resigned themselves to expensive tooling for compression fittings, but is it because of this investment their reluctance to wholly use sharkbite fittings instead.  As I read about the product, it uses the same type of seal as a compression fitting, but doesn't need a proprietary tool to fit.  And properly fitted it doesn't leak or burst.  So what's the issue, after all, compression can be considered inferior to braze. (Not to be confused with the problematic American gator fittings).

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## JB1

My old house used it when replacing the iron pipes. 
The plumbers used bluline(?) for my new house. 
The sharkbite certainly looked higher quality, but I understand it is quite a bit more expensive than other types of fittings/pipes.   
End of the day, I think plumbers will use the most cost effective fittings as long as it doesn't leak.  
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## phild01

My feeling was that fittings and pipe are similar to compression!

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## woodchip

I havnt noticed the reluctance in my area....the plumbers rave about it, I cant believe its so quick (& easy), my plumber only gave me one choice when I just built our new house & that was Sharkbite or he wouldn't be doing the job. The large hospital extension I am involved with at the moment the plumbers are using sharkbite too, cheers

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## cyclic

> An Australian made and an in-wall approved pipe fitting for pex and copper.  It fascinates me that plumbers resigned themselves to expensive tooling for compression fittings, but is it because of this investment their reluctance to wholly use sharkbite fittings instead.  As I read about the product, it uses the same type of seal as a compression fitting, but doesn't need a proprietary tool to fit.  And properly fitted it doesn't leak or burst.  So what's the issue, after all, compression can be considered inferior to braze. (Not to be confused with the problematic American gator fittings).

  Just to put everyone in the picture, these are compression fittings Using compression fittings to install plumbing fixtures 
These are crimp fittings/pipe pex http://www.construction-advantage.co...s_Brochure.pdf 
If I were still in business I would have no option than to use the likes of Sharkbite to stay competitive, however, consider this, there are now so many pipe systems available that maintenance becomes a nightmare when repairing breaks etc. 
I was called out one Sunday afternoon to a friends home to find a dart through a pex pipe in a high (on stumps) Queenslander. 
I repaired it my way with a Stainless clamp with a piece of thin rubber covering the pin hole. Next day I got a mate to go round with his crimping tool (I refused to pay the stupid prices they were asking for the tools) and do a crimp repair. 
Sharkbite and similar were bought in to be competitive with copper but the buying price is sometimes more than copper, but of course the saving is in the labour. 
In the 1960s, labour was approx 75% of the job with materials approx 25%. (Galvanised steel pipes screwed, as well as cast iron lead jointed for large wastes, and also copper). 
Today I believe it would probably be the opposite. 
I have only done one job with a pex type pipe (Leap industries) and it sagged with the weight of water even though it was clipped at 500mm intervals,so, imo, it looked like a Harry Handyman job. 
Sadly, a lot of Tradesmen don't care what it looks like as long as they get paid and it is within the law(code) 
Just my thoughts.

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## RodEye

> my plumber only gave me one choice when I just built our new house & that was Sharkbite or he wouldn't be doing the job.

  Just wondering,what kind of pipe did he use for the Gas line.

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## phild01

> Just to put everyone in the picture, these are compression fittings Using compression fittings to install plumbing fixtures 
> These are crimp fittings/pipe pex http://www.construction-advantage.co...s_Brochure.pdf  
> In the 1960s, labour was approx 75% of the job with materials approx 25%. (Galvanised steel pipes screwed, as well as cast iron lead jointed for large wastes, and also copper). 
> Today I believe it would probably be the opposite. 
> I have only done one job with a pex type pipe (Leap industries) and it sagged with the weight of water even though it was clipped at 500mm intervals,so, imo, it looked like a Harry Handyman job.

  Not sure about that price comparison because a plumber's charge for work today far exceeds their cost of parts! 
As for the sag, are you sure it was pex and not butyl?

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## woodchip

> Just wondering,what kind of pipe did he use for the Gas line.

   the run from the gas bottles to the stove was less than 10 feet, they used copper for that. In the last house we built 7yrs ago the plumber used a yellow flexible gas pipe with a grey inside lining crimped with a tool if I recall, seemed like good stuff too, cheers

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## cyclic

> Not sure about that price comparison because a plumber's charge for work today far exceeds their cost of parts! 
> As for the sag, are you sure it was pex and not butyl?

  Yea, could have been butyl.

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## wonderplumb

Comes down to cost and personal preference. I don't see how using Sharkbite to rough in a whole house would be "competitive". Being competitive these days is using a product such as Auspex or the crimped copper systems like Viega, B Press or Kempress. 
Personally I wouldn't be comfortable in leaving push-fit fittings in a wall, a mechanical crimp or soldered joint would put me at ease.

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## wonderplumb

In saying this, I've had to use Sharkbite quite a few times in commercial maintenance scenarios where hot works aren't allowed.

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## phild01

> Personally I wouldn't be comfortable in leaving push-fit fittings in a wall, a mechanical crimp or soldered joint would put me at ease.

  I think this is the crux, the feeling of discomfort.  As I understand Sharkbite and the crimping methods all work on the same type of seal.  They are all mechanical in their grip.  Instead of pressing against the wall of the pipe, sharkbite bites with many stainless steel teeth.  I can't see it pulling apart and the seal is every bit as good.  I can only put it down to a psychological thing as the speed of putting it together is faster than the crimping methods.

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## wonderplumb

> I think this is the crux, the feeling of discomfort.  As I understand Sharkbite and the crimping methods all work on the same type of seal.  They are all mechanical in their grip.  Instead of pressing against the wall of the pipe, sharkbite bites with many stainless steel teeth.  I can't see it pulling apart and the seal is every bit as good.  I can only put it down to a psychological thing as the speed of putting it together is faster than the crimping methods.

  Not much faster though, the cost of fittings is still astronomical. I use auspex / duopex with the battery operated crimpers and it's pretty quick. 
I'm always paranoid about sharkbite when I use it!

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## phild01

> Not much faster though, the cost of fittings is still astronomical. I use auspex / duopex with the battery operated crimpers and it's pretty quick. 
> I'm always paranoid about sharkbite when I use it!

  A sharkbite fitting might be around $7.  With all fittings needed for a job, I doubt the percentage increase of the overall invoiced bill would be very high at all.  I have watched Viega and the time difference is quite significant, getting an extra tool sorted out, locating the tool, is it charged,  placing it, waiting for the crimp action, might seem quick but...  I reckon the sharkbite is quite a bit quicker.  I do wonder about the 50 year life of any of these fittings though.  It's the seal that makes or breaks and it hasn't been around long enough to know.

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## goldie1

I wonder if any one had this same conversation when we changed from gal to that new fangled copper 
and PVC   :Smilie:

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## Pulpo

I have used shark bite on numerous jobs. 
Probably spent about $4,000 on the stuff. 
What annoys me about shark bite, is availability. 
Their web site is just pathetic. 
Pricing not very competitive, not enough fittings. 
I have tested it to breaking or leaking point. 
16mm and 20mm very very hard to get to leak. 
Hiowever 25mm can leak, bending the pipe, which is impossible on rehau. 
I'm using for a high end job at the moment, and extremely nervous. 
I'm testing tomorrow if it leaks, xmas break will be delay by a few days. 
I started using because its common in Europe this type of fitting. 
For the home handy man this stuff is perfect, Masters stock a great selection. 
Good luck with your reno's 
Pulpo

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## ringtail

Copper copper and more copper. Silver soldered of course. Leave the plastic crap for water tanks  :Tongue:

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## JB1

> Copper copper and more copper.

  

I agree with you 100%!! 
However when I was owner building my new house recently I was worried that scumbag thieves will like it more than you!!  
I guess builders don't like to use copper due to not only theft but also major damage due to copper theft- studs, timber, plaster etc.   
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## ringtail

Theft can be an issue for sure. However, it depends on the site location most of the time. A suburban build in amongst existing houses will rarely, if ever get knocked off. It happens mainly in new estates with multiple house builds on the go and very few occupied houses. Spec home city. Ironically, the use of plastic in these crap houses is quite fitting really.  :Tongue:  Ac pipe work is a prime target too in these wastelands

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## JB1

My build was in an old area. 
The only things that got knocked off was a 700mm long 200x200mm spotted gum post offcut and some door stops. 
Im sure I know which tradies did it but can't prove it. 
Anyway, I could have used copper but didn't want the risk of it being stolen and to deal with the consequences. Enough hassles owner building as it is. 
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## wonderplumb

Starting a job next week on a house that's half done in sharkbite and plastic pipe. Bloody hideous!

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## phild01

> Starting a job next week on a house that's half done in sharkbite and plastic pipe. Bloody hideous!

  ...I take that to mean you don't like pex! 
I would prefer silver soldered copper but even then I have experienced leakage problems with this.  Maybe one was soft soldered, but the an other was an electrolytic breakdown with sandstone (iron).

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## wonderplumb

PEX is alright, when it's installed correctly and properly secured. I use Auspex.

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## phild01

> PEX is alright, when it's installed correctly and properly secured. I use Auspex.

  Was just wondering as sharkbite pipe is pex.

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