# Forum Home Renovation Fences & Screens  Steel framed gate - adding wooden framing query

## joynz

Hi 
I have bought a steel gate kit and plan to clad it with wooden slats of some kind. 
Back in 2012 Bloss mentioned in this forum that it is possible to add wood to the steel frame so the pickets or slats get screwed into the wood not into the steel frame (and this helps prevent corrosion of the steel). But post didn't have specifics. 
My question is to which face of the steel frame should I attach the first layer of wood (i.e. the wood I will screw the slats into)? 
 Into the *face* of the steel frame (making the frame thicker) or in line with the steel frame (i.e. above the bottom steel rail, under the middle one and under the top one - and not therefore increasing the width? 
Happy for any info.
Annette

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## shauck

I would think either of those options are fine. The first is better in my opinion. The timber frame attached to the face of the steel frame would drain water better than that attached to the top or underside of the steel frame.

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## Oldsaltoz

Thinking about how to go about this, I suspect that when placing the timber you will attach the slats to should on top of the steel at the top and below the steel at the bottom so the whole structure can expand when it gets wet. 
The middle slat can be either side, ie, top or bottom but, the fixing between the stud and the slats should be drilled and slotted to allow for expansion. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

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## r3nov8or

All that sounds fine. Just to say though that I have one of those assemble-yourself colour-coded steel gates they have at Mitre10 and Bunnings. It's about 15 years old with the pickets directly attached to the steel with no apprent ill affects and is still going strong. (Needs a good coat of paint though  :Smilie:  )

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## joynz

Thank you Shauck, Oldsaltoz and R3nov8tor.  Really appreciate your advice.                                                                                                                                                                                      Oldsaltoz, when you say 'the fixing between the stud and the slats should be drilled and slotted to allow for expansion' what do you mean by 'drilled and slotted'?

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## ringtail

I just screwed directly to mine using fine metal thread screws with a roofing screw type of head. Predrilled the hardwood picket first with a 6 mm bit so the screw only has to drill through the steel. All good 4 years on.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Thank you Shauck, Oldsaltoz and R3nov8tor.  Really appreciate your advice.                                                                                                                                                                                      Oldsaltoz, when you say 'the fixing between the stud and the slats should be drilled and slotted to allow for expansion' what do you mean by 'drilled and slotted'?

  We are talking about the middle timber here, If screwed tightly to the steel the will swell when it rains. 
By pre drilling the holes a little oversize the mid section is free to move when it expands, thus preventing bowing of thin slats or breaking of thin screws into the steel. 
Good luck and fair winds.   :Smilie:

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## shauck

> I just screwed directly to mine using fine metal thread screws with a roofing screw type of head. Predrilled the hardwood picket first with a 6 mm bit so the screw only has to drill through the steel. All good 4 years on.

  I would go with this method if it was me.

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## Bloss

:Wat they said:  I haven't looked at my old post, but shauck & ringtail are right - it is fine and very common to attache director to a steel frame. The pre-drilling is needed, gal fixings too. Drilling steel is a new skill to be learnt by any DIYer, but so long as some basics are covered it is not a huge problem. Although an experienced person can drill directly and accurately I always use a centre punch to mark the holes once I have measured etc. But if the timber panels are clamped tightly to the steel then drilling through the timber and into the steel is easier and no centre punch is needed. Use a HSS (high speed steel) drill for pilot holes and the correct size to allow enough bite for the metal screws, but for the thread only with no binding on the shank - else snapped screws will be the result and these are always buggers to deal with. Do not drill using too fast a speed - bigger the bit and thicker the steel the slower the speed. A drop of oil on the steel when about to drill helps, but if it gets on the timber that can mean stains that will not be moved afterwards. 
Depending on experience of the DIYer (and how much they intend to do over time - it is useful to try so as to learn, but if there are asimplt a bunch on one off jobs with varying skills then the easy way is the best way! For novices I would stick to using timber rails as they can usually be fixed with just a few holes in each to fix them to the steel frame then regular screws and wood working attaches the timber panels.

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## ringtail

Thought I better post a picture or two.Well, I would but my phone won't upload pics here. Hmm. Later on the desktop then

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## John7

> I just screwed directly to mine using fine metal thread screws with a roofing screw type of head. Predrilled the hardwood picket first with a 6 mm bit so the screw only has to drill through the steel. All good 4 years on.

  Hey ringtail et al 
What type and brand of screw do you use for this type of thing?  
I'd prefer a torx head screw, but they're not easy to come by for this type of application.  Is it best to stick with gal screw?  I've noticed there are SS screws with some sort of coating for attaching timber to steel...

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## ringtail

Ok, some pics. Note the fine thread on the screws. I took the rubber seals off too and the actual screws I used are 40 mm, I think. :Tongue:  
I think using a traditional type of countersunk screw is not advisable given the fact that it's a gate, it's weather exposed and normal screws don't provide the sort of hold down or clamp to the steel that is required. Splitting of the timber will surely result if using a countersunk type screw.

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## OBBob

The roofing screws would be much cheaper too. I'm a bit confused by the splitting comment,  countersunk seems ok on a deck?

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## ringtail

Yep on a deck they are fine. 2 screws every 450 mm or less. On a metal gate frame though its a bit different. The less penetrations the better, thats why I only went 1 screw per picket and the large head on the screw clamps the timber to steel big time. With a countersunk screw it would get to the point where it either just splits the board ( at the ends) or goes right through the board offering little or no hold down. Remembering that the pilot hole should be bigger than the screw thread, it doesn't leave much meat for a countersunk screw to be tightened sufficiently IMHO. I also like the more industrial look of the raised heads too.

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## OBBob

Interesting,  I seen others do it the way you have. I haven't had to do a gate like this but may do soon. Watching this thread with interest.  :Biggrin:

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## Bloss

> Yep on a deck they are fine. 2 screws every 450 mm or less. On a metal gate frame though its a bit different. The less penetrations the better, thats why I only went 1 screw per picket and the large head on the screw clamps the timber to steel big time. With a countersunk screw it would get to the point where it either just splits the board ( at the ends) or goes right through the board offering little or no hold down. Remembering that the pilot hole should be bigger than the screw thread, it doesn't leave much meat for a countersunk screw to be tightened sufficiently IMHO. I also like the more industrial look of the raised heads too.

   :What he said:  The roofing screws work fine - assuming you are using an impact driver _not_ a regular drill/driver or a hammer drill. Also needs some sensitivity to make sure that you do not over drive - and strip the thread or the hole.

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## ringtail

> The roofing screws work fine - assuming you are using an impact driver _not_ a regular drill/driver or a hammer drill. Also needs some sensitivity to make sure that you do not over drive - and strip the thread or the hole.

   :Wink:  :Wink:

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## Micky013

How do those hinges work? I looked at them when deciding on a gate myself but wasnt sure how you secure them so your gate cant be lifted off

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## ringtail

I just put a roofing screw above the hinges so they can't be lifted off

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## OBBob

I like those hinges. Very robust and very smooth. It's also useful to just be able to lift the gate off every now and again without fear of changing the alignment.

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## Micky013

Thanks ringtail

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## joynz

Hi everyone 
Thank you for your great suggestions and useful advice.  I really appreciate the input and will go ahead and screw directly into the steel as suggested. 
Regards
A

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## phild01

Used similar s/s hex drive tec screws today, self drilling.  Didn't know about the stainless steel ones and don't know what purpose these are best suited for, though I would say the standard galvanised ones would protect the steel far better against the screw holes rusting.

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## OBBob

Ok, so I agree that the clamping force of the roofing screws does seem the ultimate in robustness over time. However, if you wanted something more discrete, what's the best option?   
Countersunk gal screw filled with two part filler?   
 Lower profile button head exposed or possibly sunk and filled?    
Lower profile wafer head exposed or possibly sunk and filled?       
Or a decking screw or some description?

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## r3nov8or

I used those countersunk gal screws many many years ago and still going strong. Just screwed in flush and painted over - it's just a gate after all.

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## OBBob

> I used those countersunk gal screws many many years ago and still going strong. Just screwed in flush and painted over - it's just a gate after all.

  
One screw centered in the picket at each steel?   
The d@mn problem is that I built the structure ... but then I couldn't find pickets last weekend. So I've since had waaaay too much time thinking about it rather than just getting on with it.  :Doh:

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## r3nov8or

Yep, one screw at each cross member (3). It is cypress pine pickets on one of those colour coded DIY steel frames hardware stores have.

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## OBBob

Thanks for your feedback r3nov8or.

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