# Forum Home Renovation Home Theatres  Bedroom TV wallmount fail - why don't my lights work anymore?!

## Danny.S

Hi Everyone   
Thought I would post this purely for your entertainment.     
I decided to wall mount our bedroom TV because I love the clean no-cable look.  We have a 32in TV in our room so this should be a nice simple job right? This is the third TV I've wall mounted but the first in this house.  The house is almost brand new.  Here's the completed job.                 
I would prefer something larger, some people hate TV's in the bedroom, but I like it.  It's nice to watch the news late at night or take in some tragic morning tele when time permits.  Anyway let's get back to my story.  The job of actually mounting the TV was pretty simple.  I purchased a nice slimline wall mounting bracket from The Cable Connection in Mulgrave, Victoria, which is just around the corner from my office (no connection, just happy with the service and prices).  Also grabbed a couple of wall plates so I could hide the cables inside the wall.  The cables pop out behind the little table and then plug into the wall.  I think the final job looks great.  I managed to find two studs for the wall mount and used the supplied coach bolts which were about about 65mm long.  The fact that my front door is immediately behind the TV ensured some extra studs to hold up the wall that contains the front doors.  Simple right? 
Wrong. 
Everything was just rosy for about two weeks after the install.  Then my wife called me at work wondering why the circuit breaker was tripping every time she tried to turn on the front lights.  We had experienced a fair bit of rain so I assumed water had made its way into the exterior wall lights and was tripping the breaker.  I advised her to not use the front lights.  Then she called because the kitchen lights were now tripping the breaker, then the office lights.  When I got home I played around and was puzzled that the tripping of the breaker was quite random.  Turn a couple of lights on without a problem, one more and bang, gone.  Try lights in reverse order and a different light would trip the breaker.  It was then that I realised that this was well above my head and called the sparky.   
Sparky comes out the following morning and starts with the same assumption as me - front lights.  He checks the lights to find no water ingress.  He does some testing and finds earth leakage on the front light circuit.  Then I realise what has happened.  I explain that I wall mounted a TV right behind the wall we were standing at. 
Turns out that the coach bolts I used to mount the TV, have just penetrated the lighting cable running through the wall to the front lights!  Not enough to immediately throw the breaker, but enough to cause some an earth leakage large enough to trip the circuit under certain load.  The sparky disabled the front lights and then returned the following day and ran new cable from the switch to the lights.  All good, except for my wallet which took a $350 hit. 
A few days later I decided to have a look at all the photos I took when the house was at frame stage to see if I had a shot of the wall in question.  I did, and I should have looked at it before I mounted the TV.  10mm higher or 10mm lower and I wouldn't be writing this thread.       
This weekend I'm mounting another TV in the rumpus room.  I have looked at the frame photos and noticed another bunch of AC cables.  I will be more careful this time! 
Danny

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## phild01

This is a good story.  Cabling should be centred in framework to allow for this type of event and fixings need to fall short.  A 70mm frame less a 16mm circuit hole only leaves 27mm at best.  Just good enough for a plasterboard screw!

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## Danny.S

90mm wall in this case.  It does look like the cabling is centred to the stud.  I wonder what length coach screws the pros use to mount wall brackets.

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## phild01

Either take their chances or use a stud finder to detect cabling.

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## Danny.S

Yeah good point.  My stud detector does pick up AC but seems to do a lot of false AC beeps.  I probably ignored it.

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## phild01

> Yeah good point.  My stud detector does pick up AC but seems to do a lot of false AC beeps.  I probably ignored it.

  Yes, know what you mean and wonder why some of these units purport to do this.  Now I wonder if the Franklin...

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## Danny.S

Must check out the franklin.

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## phild01

> Must check out the franklin.

  Actually, was wondering about it as there is another thread extolling it's virtues for stud finding, not sure how it is with electrical though!  Someone else might chime in.

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## Danny.S

Yes, I've read that thread with interest.  My $14 Stanley one seems to think my studs are 60mm rather than 35mm

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## OBBob

> Actually, was wondering about it as there is another thread extolling it's virtues for stud finding, not sure how it is with electrical though!  Someone else might chime in.

  Entertaining story (since it turned out ok). I think the Franklin is meant to be good because it doesn't do anything but find studs.

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## METRIX

> Actually, was wondering about it as there is another thread extolling it's virtues for stud finding, not sure how it is with electrical though!  Someone else might chime in.

  The franklin is purely a stud finder, it won't tell you if there is electrical behind the gyprock, you would need an electrical detector to find this. 
I hear you say that's useless and they need to add that feature in, I supposed they could, and also add in water pipe detection, gold nugget detection, missing car key detection as well as a whole host of other rubbish the other manufacturers claim to detect, and hence why the majority of them don't work at detecting anything very accurately. 
I like the franklin because it detects studs, and studs only, its s simple device which does what it claims, it's so difficult to find something simple that does what it claims thes days with everythjing having to be multi this and that. 
I have mounted probably 50 flatscreens, and never once have I hit the wiring because I check the wall with a n electric cable detector first (Bosch GMS120 Pro) this was a left stud finder from the many stud finders I purchased over the years and they simply did not work reliably, including this Bosch at $150 when new, I use it in electrical mode only and it does work for that, for detercting studs my choice is the franklin. 
Personally the 65mm coach bolts they give are serious overkill for the majority of TV'S you will be hanging off the bracket, your one is a 32" which if its a semi new LCD probably weighs around 10-12kg, the latest ones are around 8kg, a simple picture hook would hold 10kg, 4 x 65mm coach screws will hold up a 70kg wall hung entertainment unit. 
Even the huge 75" Samsungs weigh just over 40 kg, I remember hanging older 42" versions which weighed more than 60Kg, now thats a decent weight to hang on a wall.  
You were also luck for your walls have only one set of noggins that you were able to get the cable down to the table, we alsoway put two set of noggins in, and these can create a barrier to getting cables through if thought of afterwards for internal walls.

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## Danny.S

Thanks for your comments Metrix  I have picked up some 50mm coach bolts to use this time.  You are correct with your noggin observation.  9ft ceilings mostly in my place which has a single noggin.  A few 10ft areas which have double noggins.  I will tread ever so carefully with the next wall as I know there is AC behind it.  Fortunately I have also photographed this wall at frame stage.  Annoyingly there is a stud right in the centre of the TV so with 600 centres, that puts the next studs on both sides too far out.  I think I will offset the wall mount so I can hit two studs and then offset the TV on the mount so it sits centre on the wall.  Some say one stud is enough (42 inch 2007 era Panasonic Plasma), but I like to feel safe and over engineer. If I can't pick up the two studs I'll take some plaster off and chuck some more timber in there (I'm pretty good at patching plaster).  No insulation in this wall so getting the cables though (all 11 of them!!) will be easier.    Thanks again.  Danny

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## METRIX

> Thanks for your comments Metrix  I have picked up some 50mm coach bolts to use this time.  You are correct with your noggin observation.  9ft ceilings mostly in my place which has a single noggin.  A few 10ft areas which have double noggins.  I will tread ever so carefully with the next wall as I know there is AC behind it.  Fortunately I have also photographed this wall at frame stage.  Annoyingly there is a stud right in the centre of the TV so with 600 centres, that puts the next studs on both sides too far out.  I think I will offset the wall mount so I can hit two studs and then offset the TV on the mount so it sits centre on the wall.  Some say one stud is enough (42 inch 2007 era Panasonic Plasma), but I like to feel safe and over engineer. If I can't pick up the two studs I'll take some plaster off and chuck some more timber in there (I'm pretty good at patching plaster).  No insulation in this wall so getting the cables though (all 11 of them!!) will be easier.    Thanks again.  Danny

  We always put 2 noggins in any wall of 2.4 and over, Theres no need to break up your wall, you have a few options. 
I assume your telly is wider than 900 ?, if it is then fix a piece of 12mm plywood across the three studs, screw through the ply into the centre stud and screw into the plywood for the 4 corners of the mount using some decent 14G screws pan head screws with washers fitted, coach bolts are not suited for the edges as the thread does not go all the way to the head of the screw,   
The second way is to screw coach bolt through the centre of the bracket, then use M6 Hollow Wall Anchors to hold the corners of the bracket to the wall, depending on the weight of your TV, you might need 4 Hollow Wall Anchors per side, these asre rated to 10Kg each fixing. 
I have seen heavy Plasmas hung purely using M6 HWA and they are still there years after, personally I would still fix some decent screws into the centre stud, or prefer the plywood option..

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## Danny.S

I'm seriously considering using this as an excuse to go out in the morning and buy a 60' LCD.   :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> I'm seriously considering using this as an excuse to go out in the morning and buy a 60' LCD.

  Yeah, Sounds good to me, they are so cheap these days. 
Also you mentioned you are running 11 cables to the TV why so many ? 
We use HDMI switching boxes and or amplifiers to do the switching, these live in the entertainment unit.
Power is built in behind the TV with a remote switch to disable it if something goes wrong, Antenna is also built in behind the wall. 
From the entertainment unit we run 2 sets of HDMI, (1 from the HDMI switch the other is a redundant backup) and thats it. 
For my own setups they have connected a PC, Playstation,PVR,WDTV, HDMI cable for MAC, Apple TV, Fox IQ all the cables and switching is done within the entertainment unit, with a IR extender controlling everything so the doors can stay shut on the entertainment unit all the time

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## Danny.S

Hi Metrix 
My amp is a bit old so does not have hdmi pass through.  I also have an old Wi and PS2 (RCA) which go straight to the tele (really should be though the amp).  FOXTEL box and dvd are also RCA.  Add an antenna and power and that's 11.  Not ideal. 
New tele today and will update to hdmi blue ray.  Will pass the foxtel and consoles through the amp so that will reduce cables dramatically. 
Danny

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## Danny.S

This will fix it!

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## r3nov8or

Imagine, someone buying a new TV the day before Grand Final! 
 You'd have been better off with another plasma, but that's a whole other story...  :Ninja:

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## phild01

> Imagine, someone buying a new TV the day before Grand Final! 
>  You'd have been better off with another plasma, but that's a whole other story...

  Plasma fan myself but concede if you choose carefully, the LCD's have improved a lot.

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## METRIX

> This will fix it!

  Nice, good choice, if your going to buy LCD then Samsung is the go, in fact Samsung is the go for Plasma as well. 
I have 3 Samsung wall mounted in this house and two others still in their box waiting to go up at the next house (but thats another story how these came to be) when we sell we always leave the TV's with the house, it appeals to buyers if they can just turn up and good quality stuff is already there. 
I have NEVER had any problems with any Samsung Plasma or LCD's, and the quality of the screens are fantastic. 
RCA to HDMI http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-AV2H...item418340d438

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## METRIX

> This will fix it!

   OH NO, you didn't buy from Hardly Normal and fill Gerry pockets with more money did you

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## Danny.S

Yes I did.  Our first smart TV.  Job done.       
Ended up running component up there just for the consoles and foxtel box.  Also bought a new Samsung Blu Ray HDD recorder because the old 576 DVD player just wasn't going to do the screen justice and I like the clarity of Blu Ray. 
I ran a spare HDMI up there and an Ethernet cable for when I finish connecting all the CAT6 sitting in my walls. 
Footy tomorrow will be awesome!

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## METRIX

Looks Good, Enjoy it.

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## FrodoOne

Danny.S 
Just a small comment on the height at which you mounted your bedroom TV. 
Do you find the height at which you have it to be appropriate for watching in bed? 
Where I mounted a  one metre TV in a bedroom, I mounted it high up on the wall and used an adjustable angled bracket, tilted about 15 degrees downward, so that when lying in bed with head on pillows looking "straight ahead" one is looking directly at the screen.  
While I had to mount the TV at this height, since there is a large dressing table mirror covering the lower part of the wall concerned, if I had mounted it at the height which you have, it would be necessary to sit up in bed to watch it!

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## METRIX

> Danny.S 
> Just a small comment on the height at which you mounted your bedroom TV. 
> Do you find the height at which you have it to be appropriate for watching in bed? 
> Where I mounted a  one metre TV in a bedroom, I mounted it high up on the wall and used an adjustable angled bracket, tilted about 15 degrees downward, so that when lying in bed with head on pillows looking "straight ahead" one is looking directly at the screen.  
> While I had to mount the TV at this height, since there is a large dressing table mirror covering the lower part of the wall concerned, if I had mounted it at the height which you have, it would be necessary to sit up in bed to watch it!

  The one in our bedroom is 40" and is mounted 1.4m from floor to bottom of TV, this works well that you can lie there and not have to lift head to a weird angle, the one in the lounge is 64" and is mounted 1m from floor, this works fine for sitting.

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## Danny.S

The one pictured in the bedroom is 1.3m to the bottom and its 32 inch.  It doesn't cause problems watching tv in bed.   
The one just done is 1.0m high and its 60 inch.  Some suggest that's high but the couch is 4.5m away and there is one of those pool/hockey tables in between that you need to be able to see over. My rule of thumb on TV height is whatever height the missus reckons.  
I have now moved the 42 inch Pana Plasma into the lounge room where the wife and I watch most of our tele.  Nice to have this one where it will be used more.  Great TV.  It was one of the last Japanese made Panasonics from what I'm told.  It's never missed a beat. 
Oh and in case anyone is wondering,  all my lights still work  :Smilie:

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## FrodoOne

> The one in our bedroom is 40" and is mounted 1.4m from floor to bottom of TV, this works well that you can lie there and not have to lift head to a weird angle, the one in the lounge is 64" and is mounted 1m from floor, this works fine for sitting.

      No doubt you are quite happy with the height at which your TV is mounted and I dont't wish to quibble with you about what is, after all, a personal choice.  Also, it is probable that your TV viewing room is larger than mine so that you watch TV from a greater distance than I do and, hence, the angular difference may not be of much significance. 
 However, a brief search on "TV mounting height" yields the following: -  *"Where to Mount your TV*  
Ideally, the middle of your TV screen needs to be at about eye level while you're seated. You'll want to be comfortable while watching TV, and mounting it too high can result in neck strain. Plus, you'll probably see the best-looking picture when you view your TV head-on, rather than at an angle. If you opt for a higher placement, consider using a tilting wall mount to angle the TV down." 
CRT TVs were all made so that one looked down on them - until they became so big that they had to be installed on a purpose built unit. 
My practice has been to mount any flat screen TV so that the middle of the screen is at about eye-level when normally viewed.  In my case, about 1000 mm from the ground in the "TV room", where it is viewed while seated.
  Admittedly, as the TV concerned is not wall mounted but standing on a unit purchased for the purpose, the final height was actually dictated by the manufacturer of the unit concerned. 
(However, in the Family Room/Kitchen area, the wall mounted TV is mounted so that the middle of the screen is about 1650 mm - since it is usually viewed while standing up or while seated at the kitchen bench.)

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## Danny.S

So a few weeks after installing the TV I noticed the home phone doesn't work anymore.  Didn't really care and barely noticed because we don't use it much nowadays.  I thought it must have been some of my VoIP hardware playing up or something so I disconnected everything and tested the line directly.  Nothing, but strangely my ADSL still worked so I was perplexed. 
Eventually I called Telstra and lodged a fault.  Nice bloke comes out and tells me the problem is in the house.  First two points work fine when isolated so he tells me the fault must be somewhere between point 2 and the final point. 
I'll give you all one guess where the final point is. 
Danny

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## FrodoOne

> So a few weeks after installing the TV I noticed the home phone doesn't work anymore.  Didn't really care and barely noticed because we don't use it much nowadays.  I thought it must have been some of my VoIP hardware playing up or something so I disconnected everything and tested the line directly.  Nothing, but strangely my ADSL still worked so I was perplexed. 
> Eventually I called Telstra and lodged a fault.  Nice bloke comes out and tells me the problem is in the house.  First two points work fine when isolated so he tells me the fault must be somewhere between point 2 and the final point. 
> I'll give you all one guess where the final point is. 
> Danny

  I find it quite amazing that you stated "_I noticed the home phone doesn't work anymore._ _Didn't really care and barely noticed because we don't use it much nowadays." _ So, there is a service for which you are paying, you noticed that it didn't work and you "Didn't really care" 
So rich!   
Because some telephone/ADSL "points" worked, my "guess" is that it was NOT a "short circuit" on the Telephone/ADSL cable. 
So, my guess is that the fault was an "open circuit" between the second and third points - associated with the original coach bolts/power cable fault.  This could have been quite "nasty" - considering the possibility of associating the "Telephone/ADSL" connection with the 230 V AC "Breakdown" ! 
And, why was the telephone cable in such proximity with the coach bolt/power cable problem that it was so affected.  Or, hopefully, one coach bolt affected the power cable and the other affected the Telephone/ADSL cable. 
Please tell us the answer, since Telephone/ADSL cables should NEVER be run in such proximity to 230 V AC Power cables.

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## Danny.S

Hi Frodo  Not the same coach bolt.  Not even the same TV mount.  The phone line issue was on the SECOND TV I wall mounted.  I'm 2 for 2!   :Smilie:   We only really have a phone line so we can have ADSL.  Work pays for the ADSL,  I just have to pay for the line.

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