# Forum More Stuff At the end of the day  As of today we make Gerry Harvey richer and the rest of us poorer.

## METRIX

So today is the day for GST to be added to any purchases under $1000 from ebay and other online overseas stores.
Poor Billionaire Gerry Harvey was the main culprit constantly having a whine at the gov't about us scummy commoners buying goods overseas because the local guys are ripping us off. 
Poor Gerry is doing it hard he has a personal worth of over $1.55 Billion, and his stores increased their profit in 2017 by 29% to over $449 Million (at least he paid Tax unlike companies like Apple).
If it was such a problem as Gerry made it out to be, it obviously wasn't affecting his bottom line. 
Also now we are unable to buy from Amazon global because they chucked a wobbly saying they wouldn't add the GST to our purchases, all purchases will be directed to the local Amazon site, it only offers access to a fraction of the 480 million products we had access to yesterday.  
ebay stuck one up Amazon and said no problem we will happily collect the GST saying Amazon buyers come to ebay.

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## phild01

I avoid his stores as much as I can.  His advertising is also one of the most annoying on TV too, and quickly skipped on the pvr.

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## METRIX

> I avoid his stores as much as I can.  His advertising is also one of the most annoying on TV too, and quickly skipped on the pvr.

  I checked his online prices and they have dropped them to shock horror actually be comparable with the other outlets, although they do still charge $50 for delivery where others are free because the product is shipped directly from the manufacturer, must be going into the Gerry slush fund so he can buy more $700,000 horses. 
Agree, I avoid his stores as well.

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## Uncle Bob

Not to forget.
The millionaires tax cut also kicks in day.
Also does the penalty rates cut for 1000's of workers. 
Geez this government really sucks.

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## phild01

Yeah, I don't understand some of these crap decisions, especially when the government is on tenderhooks.  It seems to be the more we engage globally, the more global politics gives us curry.

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## Marc

So I am not the only one to turn down the radio when I hear his whiney voice in the ads. The Harvey tax starts today. Never in history has a government sucked more than this mob ... well may be take away Kevin Rudd ... and Julia Gillard ... and Bob Carr ... and ... thats it for me  :Rofl5:  
The sad part is that this Harvey tax will not deter anyone from buying overseas. Considering we are paying 400% more in Australia, a miserly 10% will make no difference. And apparently it is revenue neutral. costs the same to collect than it brings in.

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## Bros

I bought an Air conditioner from Hardly normal three yrs ago as it was cheaper than I could buy it elsewhere. The local yokels tried to tell me that the price was an on line one but I said rubbish and they accepted what I said.
As for anything else I just go there to occasionally get some pics and compare prices. I would not buy from him or his other stores Joyce Main.

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## phild01

...and Domayne.

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## PhilT2

> And apparently it is revenue neutral. costs the same to collect than it brings in.

  How can it be costing to collect when the retailers have to do all the work? It was a brilliant plan by the govt to have us do all the work and act as tax collectors. 
 I think that when I have to spend time chasing up overdue accounts i should be entitled to charge the govt for 10% of that time to collect their 10%. I don't work for free.

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## commodorenut

Apart from taking advantage of the photo printing (which they make you walk through the entire store to get to) I haven't set foot in a Hardly Normal for close to 20 years, and only did so back then because a mate worked there and got us a great deal on an appliance (IIRC it was around 45% off the normal price).
Gerry Harvey is a hypocritical sook.  He was able to take advantage of cheap stuff from overseas decades ago, and now Joe Public can do the same, he's chucking his toys out of his cot and having a tantrum.  There isn't much in a HN store that I would buy from them, nor would I buy from overseas.  Other retailers are well ahead on pricing & customer service standards. 
I've been paying GST on all the expensive stuff from overseas for years, because it's been cars or parts coming in with cars.  I can see the sense there, as it's several hundred (or thousand) dollars, so it's a good return for the effort needed to collect it. 
But most of what I buy overseas that's <$1000 is knick-knack electronic gadgets, LED strips & other low-voltage 12V DC stuff (ie no need for AU 240V approvals).  I'd be lucky to spend $100 on a spree. 
But it makes me wonder about the economics.  My last eBay China spree was over 10 small orders from different sellers, none exceeding $8.  
So who's going to collect the GST & audit each of those transactions?  Maybe they're in China too?? 
The Amazon whinge is definitely valid - we have something like 1/8th of the available items on the .com.au site comapared to the .com one.
And there was a good comparison a few weeks back on a news site - handbags & "gaming" keyboards that were sub-$100 on the US site, and $350+ on the AU site for the same thing.
Once again, we're bitten by the Australia tax......   
Like what has been said above, I have no problem paying GST on imports, and I've paid a fair whack over the years, but I take offence at being slugged double, triple, or more, because I live in Australia.  Fortunately if I ever want anything of reasonable value from the USA, I have plenty of work colleagues who we horse-trade with, and they're more than willing to help. 
One example of the ripoffs is that I paid about AU$220 odd +$50 shipping for the full-kit Logitech  Harmony setup from the USA - which is the LCD remote, base station,  extra emitters, RF stuff (and wi-fi connecting) that was over $500 here  for the same kit.  It all runs on 5V USB charger/power supplies, so it  was only a matter chucking the US ones in the bin, and digging up old AU USB  phone charger for each powered item.  Why are we having to pay more than double in Australia for what's effectively a couple of different power adapters?

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## NZC

> How can it be costing to collect when the retailers have to do all the work? It was a brilliant plan by the govt to have us do all the work and act as tax collectors. 
>  I think that when I have to spend time chasing up overdue accounts i should be entitled to charge the govt for 10% of that time to collect their 10%. I don't work for free.

  
You can still buy things from Amazon and overseas. Its just Amazon is refusing to do their job for them. If you have Amazon post it to a freight forwarder who posts it here, it will be held by customs until they chase you for the GST before delivery is made.

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## woodbe

The last thing I bought from Harvey was the TiVoHD.  
Have never gone to Harvey and never will again.  
TiVo is still working though, after having it resorted with replacing the IC chip and software to extract it from the shutdown Ch7 system.  :2thumbsup:

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## PhilT2

> You can still buy things from Amazon and overseas. Its just Amazon is refusing to do their job for them. If you have Amazon post it to a freight forwarder who posts it here, it will be held by customs until they chase you for the GST before delivery is made.

  I doubt customs will exert much energy in making sure you are notified; they may just leave it up to the sender. And don't be surprised if there's handling or storage fees for late collection.

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## pharmaboy2

Tha changes are levied on the seller, not the buyer, so a package arriving in Aus under the usual threshold shouldn’t have GST applied. 
the reality of what they have done is just killed off the bigger sellers bothering to service Australia - net effect, will be less competition, not fairer competition

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## toooldforthis

some o/s ebay items I have a watch on say import duties are closer to 15%
and their global shipping rates have been overstated by a mile for ages too.

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## UseByDate

> Yeah, I don't understand some of these crap decisions, especially when the government is on tenderhooks.  It seems to be the more we engage globally, the more global politics gives us curry.

  It may just be a spelling mistake but the word that I think you mean is tenterhooks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook.

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## phild01

> It may just be a spelling mistake but the word that I think you mean is tenterhooks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook.

  Yep that's what I meant, thanks for the pickup :Smilie:

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## UseByDate

> Yep that's what I meant, thanks for the pickup

  You are welcome. :Smilie:

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## commodorenut

I was going to point that out but was in fear of being targeted by the grammar correction nazis......

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## chrisp

For all intensive purposes, we knew what Phil meant.  :Smilie:

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## UseByDate

Grammar Nazi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4hvh5e8-nw

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## phild01

> For all *intensive* purposes, we knew what Phil meant.

   :Winksmiley02:

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## chrisp

I’m pleased that my subtle attempt at humour was noticed.  :Smilie:

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## UseByDate

> For all intensive purposes, we knew what Phil meant.

  It was. _For all intents and purposes_ is the usual form of the phrase meaning _in every practical sense_. *For all intensive purposes*is a fairly common eggcorn  derived from the original phrase. It’s often heard in speech, but it’s  rare in published writing because it generally doesn’t pass through the  editorial process.

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## toooldforthis

from now on 
all my purposes are going to be intensive
and 
all my hooks tender

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## UseByDate

> from now on 
> all my purposes are going to be intensive
> and 
> all my hooks tender

  May the farce be with you.  :Smilie:

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## Jon

Coming back on topic, I am about to purchase around $130USD of LED lights from China (Christmas lights) and will report on how it goes.

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## METRIX

> Coming back on topic, I am about to purchase around $130USD of LED lights from China (Christmas lights) and will report on how it goes.

  Watch out you don't get the ones that catch on fire.

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## cam_jim

Personally I don't have a problem with GST being added to purchases from Ebay or Amazon or anywhere else. These overseas sellers do absolutely nothing for the Australian economy. Why should these companies be given a 10% head start against Australian based businesses?

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## Marc

The problem is not the 10% GST, no one cares for 10% when you make 50% or more savings buying from OS. The reason GST was never charged to purchase under 1000 is that collecting cost is higher than the tax itself making it uneconomical at that level.  
The tax was introduced after a decade of incessant and pathetic whining from Mr Harvey. The very fact they gave in is pathetic. The alleged "level playing field" is pathetic, everything about the claims from Mr Harvey is pathetic, particularly because he, together with every other furniture and white goods importer, destroyed the local manufacturing industry by importing container full of crap for a few cent to offload onto us for princess sums, only to cry poor if some poor sod discovers he is paying four fold the price in the US and decides to buy one unit for his own use.  
The tax is designed to DISCOURAGE the CONSUMER not competing stores, from buying overseas. The closure of Amazon sales to Australian buyers is just one example. The fact that there are ways to circumvent this is irrelevant. Too hard for most. The Australian consumer pays on average double the price overseas and sometimes four times, not to mention suffering from minimum choices and ridiculously bad service.  This is only possible due to local apathy and lay back attitude. 
I used to import second hand low hours machinery and had to walk through a minefield of protectionism and mafia like actions from the local sellers. Some brands were just impossible since they would black list the machines and ban the new owner from buying spares locally and would not service them. Actions you would expect if you lived in Russia.
The ACCC does not exist.

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## METRIX

> The problem is not the 10% GST, no one cares for 10% when you make 50% or more savings buying from OS. The reason GST was never charged to purchase under 1000 is that collecting cost is higher than the tax itself making it uneconomical at that level.  
> The tax was introduced after a decade of incessant and pathetic whining from Mr Harvey. The very fact they gave in is pathetic. The alleged "level playing field" is pathetic, everything about the claims from Mr Harvey is pathetic, particularly because he, together with every other furniture and white goods importer, destroyed the local manufacturing industry by importing container full of crap for a few cent to offload onto us for princess sums, only to cry poor if some poor sod discovers he is paying four fold the price in the US and decides to buy one unit for his own use.  
> The tax is designed to DISCOURAGE the CONSUMER not competing stores, from buying overseas. The closure of Amazon sales to Australian buyers is just one example. The fact that there are ways to circumvent this is irrelevant. Too hard for most. The Australian consumer pays on average double the price overseas and sometimes four times, not to mention suffering from minimum choices and ridiculously bad service.  This is only possible due to local apathy and lay back attitude. 
> I used to import second hand low hours machinery and had to walk through a minefield of protectionism and mafia like actions from the local sellers. Some brands were just impossible since they would black list the machines and ban the new owner from buying spares locally and would not service them. Actions you would expect if you lived in Russia.
> The ACCC does not exist.

  
Agree 100%, look at the USA, TESLA is trying to change the world thinking about renewable energy, in the US it is illegal to sell TESLA cars in the following states, because the Gerry Harvey dealership's enforced laws many years ago making it illegal to buy cars directly from the manufacturer basically banning competition from smaller manufacturers. 
They have had to introduce new laws and bills to try and allow this to change but it has been fought with a lot of backlash.
Currently you cannot buy a tesla in, Texas, Michigan, Utah, West Virginia amongst others, you can buy them in 20 states with others introducing some concessions to sell electric car's compared to ICE cars, stupidity.

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## cam_jim

Marc, I read this thread as about whining because 10% GST is being added to online purchases from overseas companies and this I have no problem with. 
Your message appears to be about something a bit more than just the GST. I don't really know much about Harvey Norman's practices so cannot comment.
I don't want to start an argument over this  :Peace2:  but reading your message indicates to me you have a problem with Harvey Norman (and possibly others) importing cheap goods from overseas and selling them for a profit in Australia but isn't this exactly what you were doing or attempting to do? Was Harvey Norman the one forcing you to "_walk through a minefield of protectionism and mafia like actions from the local sellers_"? Also seems to me that if '_Australian consumer pays on average double the price overseas and sometimes four times_' then even adding 10% GST the Australian consumer is still be better off buying from overseas. At least the government will get some money out of the transaction.

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## Marc

cam_jim ... you are missing the point. 
If you live in Australia you are getting ripped off as a consumer at every turn, you have less choices, and bad service. This are the facts.
And if you read my post I said 10% GST is not the problem. 
The GST on internet overseas purchase for goods under 1000 was introduced because some of the architects of the oligopoly that strangles Australia wanted to close a very small, almost irrelevant loophole for the consumer. The last bastion of freedom if you like dramatics. 
And they succeeded. Shame on the current morons in charge.  
And in case you missed it, my very small operation was providing a minuscule competition in the second hand market and I made many builders happy with my product. 
Only yesterday I was talking to the tree guy that cut and chipped a couple of trees for me. He was lamenting the cost of a new stump grinder close to 100k when it can be had for 30k in the US. He told me how a friend imported one only to have the local importer refuse to service and supply parts. This has nothing to do with Harvey Norman it is just how we trade in Australia. If you can not see that this is wrong, I can not help you. 
Any attempt at reducing competition is shameful. And the ATO will lose money with this deal, it costs them more to collect than what they get.

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## toooldforthis

here is how evilbay are calculating GST these days.
this charge prior July 1 was zero.

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## Marc

That is 38% not 10%

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## commodorenut

That will be VAT - change it to AU$ and it will recalculate. 
I bought about $100 worth of stuff yesterday, and 10% GST was added to the sub-total of everything imported.  One item wasn't free post, and GST was applied to the postage charge as well.

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## toooldforthis

> That is 38% not 10%

  exactly my point
evilbay rip buyer and seller off at every turn.
depending on how the seller lists the item (as in the one above) sometimes the postage charge is more than twice the actual cost.   

> That will be VAT - change it to AU$ and it will recalculate. 
> I bought about $100 worth of stuff yesterday, and 10% GST was added to the sub-total of everything imported.  One item wasn't free post, and GST was applied to the postage charge as well.

  no, it's not VAT. it's their gst calc - applied I don't know how; even if you add postage to the bid it is still more than 10%.
VAT is sales tax and you can ask for it to be exempt (I have done that, and on euro goods also) cause it is an o/s sale, and usually they oblige.

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## havabeer

I don’t mind paying tax and GST if the dam government could spend it properly/wisely

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## Marc

I just bought some supplements from a US website. Delivery to OZ ... no problem, "free" delivery and no mention of no gsb nor fyt
May be more US business will see the light and start shipping to OZ

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## METRIX

> I just bought some supplements from a US website. Delivery to OZ ... no problem, "free" delivery and no mention of no gsb nor fyt
> May be more US business will see the light and start shipping to OZ

  That's rare to find free shipping from US, I have found they have the highest postage costs of all major places to buy from.

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## Bigboboz

> I just bought some supplements from a US website. Delivery to OZ ... no problem, "free" delivery and no mention of no gsb nor fyt
> May be more US business will see the light and start shipping to OZ

  I thought packages now get checked at customs for GST payment? I normally order a lot from offshore, just haven't yet since the change.  It may get held up at customs until the GST is paid, hope not though!

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## 100notout

> That is 38% not 10%

  That's because the ATO have ruled that the shipping is added to the cost of the item, and then the GST is calculated on the total. Shipping is the "Service" part of the GST.  I don't mind the 10% on an item, if we must, but get the irits when it's added onto the inflated eBay shipping as well.

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## Bigboboz

> I don't mind the 10% on an item, if we must, but get the irits when it's added onto the inflated eBay shipping as well.

  The split between the item and the shipping is irrelevant, only the total matters when looking on line.  When they say 'free' shipping, do you really think the shipping is free? It's baked into the cost of the item.  
Different sellers do different splits for marketing purposes, some people want to see a cheap price on the item and some hate paying for shipping.  Only the total matters when comparing options. 
Agree with Metrix, the US often has crazy shipping costs and nothing to do with marketing. I think some US sellers just don't care about offshore buyers but will sell if someone is willing to pay whichever premium shipping service they've chosen.

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## toooldforthis

> here is how evilbay are calculating GST these days.
> this charge prior July 1 was zero.

  adding postage and bid together the GST calculation is still 14%+ 
on this particular item the postage would be no more than GBP15 so evilbay have doubled that.
where the item is Make an Offer I have got the seller to change it to Free Postage and made them a good offer that includes postage - the vendor hasn't liked evilbay's attitude either and are often quite happy to help out. 
UK seems to be the worst. Euro, eg Germany, seems better.

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## Bros

Give the poor bloke a break will you as he has hit hard times.  https://www.commercialrealestate.com...s-hits-market/

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## cyclic

> I thought packages now get checked at customs for GST payment? I normally order a lot from offshore, just haven't yet since the change.  It may get held up at customs until the GST is paid, hope not though!

  That is exactly what is happening. 
Good friend does micro soldering and phone repairs, and he now has close to $1500 in goods seized by customs in the form of refurbished boards and chips from 10 different suppliers in China. 
Catch is he has not received an invoice from Customs for the GST and has no idea when this will occur, and his concern is also if Customs will add their handling charges along with Au Post who he thinks may also levy a charge for releasing the goods.

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## Moondog55

Our tent from REI arrived. No GST charged by customs on entry although it was help in Melbourne for a week prior to delivery via DHL.
REI for one will not be collecting a "Foreign" tax but they are a tiny business compared to the eBay juggernaut

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## Marc

The GST on <$1000 has a cascading effect of collecting not only 10% but associated costs, add delays and acts as a general deterrent for sellers and buyers. The real purpose is protectionist from an already insular and abusive economy. 
The real tragedy is that it cut's Australia off the international market for the domestic consumer that will see his bid turned away for what is seen as a complication from an insignificant customer.

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## Smurf

> The real tragedy is that it cut's Australia off the international market for the domestic consumer that will see his bid turned away for what is seen as a complication from an insignificant customer.

   This. 
It's too much hassle for something that brings too few customers to the seller. Easier for them to simply not ship to Australia.

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## METRIX

As we feel sorry for Poor Gerry, here is a few of his properties, poor thing these are multi million dollar properties in places like Double Bay, Rose Bay, Kingscliffe oh a paultry little 4000 acre estate.

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## Bigboboz

Give him a break! The up keep would be expensive on all of those, he needs the pay bump!

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## Marc

I understand the sarcasm but besides that, i doubt he actually profits from this. It is one of the things people do and persist "in principle". He was fixated in the concept of levelled plain field and that millions of consumers were escaping the established shops by going overseas on spending sprees. 
The reality is different. Wholesale and retail in Australia is an organised rip off. Big brands that establish a presence in Australia automatically pump their prices up by obscene 400% in many cases and do everything they can to block overseas stock of their own brand. 
Remember buying a Roberts saw (Jamb saw) second hand that was missing the handle. Spoke to the importer here and he wanted to charge me for the handle what the complete saw cost in the US. Bought the handle for something like $8, plus brushes for a few dollars, spare spring for the guard and $20 for postage. 
Today I would have to send the purchase to a fright forwarder, pay double postage and handling and the FF would add the GST and more expenses for the bother. 
It is not much more and still worth it but it is a deterrent that most will not bother with. is HN profiting from this move? I think he is not directly. May be some of his cronies, who knows.

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## Bigboboz

He'll definitely still benefit but not as much by how much more we'll pay for stuff plus left with less choice. 
I bought some speakers from Amazon US that even after $300+ shipping where still less than half price.  Colleague tried to make the point that this was risky as I won't have any warranty but I pointed out at less than half the price, I can just buy a second set and still be ahead and I doubt both will fail so I'll have a spare if I do get a second fail. 
Anyway, they're both still going strong 10yrs later.

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## Bros

Looking through the Amazon site in Aus and it looks like another version of Ebay and the Amazon site is just the advertising end.  
Am I right or is there something I am not seeing?

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## Bigboboz

Don't know, haven't bothered spending much time on the Aus Amazon site but had a quick compare of prices for Braun products (rememberd they were heavily inflated in Aus)
Series 7 Electric shaver
Amazon.com.au A$590
Amazon.com US$180 (~A$240) 
What's the point of the Aus site? 
Out of interest checked out some retailers
Bing Lee A$330
Hardly Normal A$300 
That's a surprise, HN with the best price and not too far off US Amazon after GST is loaded on top!  :Shock:

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## commodorenut

Weber BBQs are another "protected species" when it comes to Australia.
We pay 2-3x more here than the yanks pay, because they have a deal with a sole importer.
We also get cut out of the full range of available models too. 
I bought another Weber really cheap when Masters were closing, because it had some missing hardware.  
Rang up Weber's AU cartel member to order the bits - willing to pay full retail, and they asked for the serial number.  
Gave it to them, and they refused to help, because it was considered a "grey import" - despite being brought in by the container load by corporate big business.
Rang back the next day with a serial number off my neighbour's one, and ordered the bits no problem....

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## Bedford

> Rang back the next day with a serial number off my neighbour's one, and ordered the bits no problem....

  Gotta luv thy neighbour!!  :Biggrin:

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## Jon

> Coming back on topic, I am about to purchase around $130USD of LED lights from China (Christmas lights) and will report on how it goes.

  My order was delivered by DHL yesterday with no issue and no extra $$$ required

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## cyclic

> That is exactly what is happening. 
> Good friend does micro soldering and phone repairs, and he now has close to $1500 in goods seized by customs in the form of refurbished boards and chips from 10 different suppliers in China. 
> Catch is he has not received an invoice from Customs for the GST and has no idea when this will occur, and his concern is also if Customs will add their handling charges along with Au Post who he thinks may also levy a charge for releasing the goods.

  It didn't work for my friend as he has been told his goods have been sent back.
Please explain how the f... that helps.

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