# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  Concrete stairs

## gsouth

All, I need some advice from teh concreting experienced folk out there. I have an existing patio made out on concrete - I need to pour some concrete stairs down from this patio to the ground below (I hope the following diagram comes out)  I have 2 questions:  1) I want to pour in 1 go, and am wondering how I go about reinforcing this structure, specifically the different levles of the stairs? (the formwork I am ok with)  2) What do I need in the joint between the new stairs and the patio? Some form of expansion joint? The join will be about 500mm high by 500mm wide where the steps join into the patio.  The stairs and associated patio will be tiled or paved once complete    XXXXX| <-- Existing concrete patio XXXXX| XXXXX+-----+--+--+--+ XXXXX|XXXXX| X|XX|XX| XXXXX|XXXXX|XX|XX|XX| -----+-----+XX|XX|XX| <-- new stairs XXXXX|________+XX|XX| XXXXX|___________+XX| XXXXX|______________+    -----+-----+ XXXXX|_____|__ XXXXX|________|__ XXXXX|___________|__ XXXXX|_____________ |

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## boban

Thanks to my father I was concreting from a young age and stairs are probably the hardest thing to form up but not overly difficult. 
Step one would be to drill into the existing verandah and hammer in some reo bars to which you will tie on your other reo. Every 300-450mm. Then the reo goes on before you form up the stairs. 
I dont think you need an expansion joint where the stair meets the verandah.

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## Auspiciousdna

<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="WIDTH: 100%; mso-cellspacing: 0cm; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">If I was you, Id do it with bricks and a concrete slab for the step if you get me! 
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>   The formula is 2 risers + a going should = between 700 and 550   The min going in a private dwelling is 240 max is 355 and riser min 115 and max 190. Id say this is beyond most not tradies. I know how to do it and its not easy! 
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top><o:p></o:p> 
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## johnc

You do not use an expansion joint unless the stairs are wedged between two solid (read concrete) structures. You only use expansion joints to absorb expansion (funny that!) where one end of the steps is facing a concrete patio and the other ground expansion is not a problem as the soil will absorb movement. If letting down onto a concrete path then the expansion will be taken as the steps move over the existing path. Thre is a couple of assumptions there but you should get the idea. 
JohnC

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## gsouth

Thanks for the responses.....
THe stairs will be solid and I think will be easier to construct as concrete rather than bricks - but I'll have a mate who's handy with the bricks take a look and let me know.....

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