# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  Options for fixing joist ends sitting on bearer

## mudbrick

So these joist had to be notched to level the floor thanks to a stuff up by the builder many years ago. The joist will sit directly on the bearer( packer will be removed). I'd like to know what the best method of fixing them down will be. They we're skew nailed originally but the hardwood is now Very hard so I think May split if I skew nail again. I like the look of some of the pryda connectors but I heard they can be noisy if there's any movement?

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## mudbrick

Here is the pic. Joist just sits on the bearer but doesn't extend past it as it butts up against slab 
Pic from phone not working...

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## paddyjoy

If you're worried about the skew nailing then yes you can use a pryda triple grip instead. You will still have to hammer in 10 pryda connector nails into that hard wood though! 
Edit: or use a pryda jost strap, only 4 nails required.

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## jimfish

Pre drill and bugle screw would be an option

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## mudbrick

Heres the pic I promised! The joist strap might be a good option, just not sure if you can use them on ends of bearers the same way you would mid span. If screwing what size bugle head screw ?
While I'm at it, whats the preffered method of fixing softwood joists to hardwood bearers?
Thanks for the replies

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## phild01

The 'bugle' screw you would use is actually a 'batten' screw and they come in different lengths.  The gold coloured ones are zinc and the preferred gal ones are silver.  Come in different lengths from 75mm up and beyond 150mm.  If you do it with the batten screw, oversize the drill hole through the joist for a loose fit and look for at least 30mm penetration into the bearer.  I also like to do a countersink for a flush fit. 
For this I probably would just pre-drill (long shank 3.5mm bit) for skew nailing 75 x 3.75mm bullet head nails (being hardwood).

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## r3nov8or

Skew nail after predrilling the joist at slightly smaller than the nail diametre. Then the joist won't split. E.g. Drill 2.5mm for a 2.7mm nail, or 3.0 for 3.2mm nail. Don't predill the bearer more than 10mm.

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## mudbrick

What about softwood joists, such as the treated MGP10 type 4x2 to hardwood bearers in a standard joist over bearer joint?
is it true the bracket type connectors are squeaky?

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## r3nov8or

> What about softwood joists, such as the treated MGP10 type 4x2 to hardwood bearers in a standard joist over bearer joint?

   Skew nail

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## mudbrick

When you say countersink for bugle screw do you mean drill straight down through top face of joist? We're not talking about skew screwing are we?

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## mudbrick

You guys are keeping me in suspense lol, do you bugle screw through the top of joist or do you have to skew-screw? 
Also has anyone tried one of those cordless hammers ( not hammer drill ) on pryda nails in hardwood? There is very little space between some of these joists so I need to use a method that's suitable for tight spaces, either the bugle screw or pryda screws seem easiest. 
Last but not least, how big can splits or cracks in a joist be and still be acceptable before it needs to be replaced?
thanks people for helping

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## mudbrick

One more question for anyone still following.
what does it mean if you skew nail a joist but it is still loose? Meaning if I push the joist side to side I can wobble it a few mils even with 2 x 75mm skew nails in it.

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## paddyjoy

> One more question for anyone still following.
> what does it mean if you skew nail a joist but it is still loose? Meaning if I push the joist side to side I can wobble it a few mils even with 2 x 75mm skew nails in it.

  You are probably over thinking it, whack the nails in with a hammer (or nail gun) and then leave it alone. If you wobble it from side to side you will eventually be able to pull it apart as the joist is acting like a lever when you rotate it, pulling on the nail. 
If you are concerned do what phil said and put a batten screw through it, you wont be able to move it after that.

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## TheHammer

You can also skew screw using #10 x 75 screws instead of nails. Predrill with a 4mm bit. I like the exterior decking screws. The green coating makes them go in easier.

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## mudbrick

Thanks, i will check out those screws

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