# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Recessed lights, insulation, covers etc?

## craigj-au

Thinking about installing some recessed lights (downlights) that use flouro bulbs. I found this page online:  Recessed Down Lights 
Is that basically the up-to-date info?  
Also, I need some clarifications... 
* Does it mean there must be 100mm between the light and the timber joists? 
* I've seen some cheap recessed lights, but they don't come with a lot of documentation. Are there some symbols, exact wording or something that indicate if they are safe with insulation? 
* One part of the house has insulation in the roof (underneath the colourbond), for that do you still need to allow that later someone could come in and put other insulation on the ceiling? 
* If I need some kind of protective covers, what are cheap but legal and safe options? 
Thanks!

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## Belair_Boy

> Is that basically the up-to-date info?

  Looks like you have found some good information online, however it doesn't take into account amendment 1 July 2009 which replaces Figure 4.7
The change in the amendment replaces the words "building element above fitting" with  "Combustible building element above fitting" and "building structural member" with "Combustible building structural member"   

> Does it mean there must be 100mm between the light and the timber joists?

    Yes   

> Are there some symbols, exact wording or something that indicate if they are safe with insulation?

   Yes, the F mark symbol.  Assume you need to protect the luminaire unless there are specific instructions stating otherwise.   

> One part of the house has insulation in the roof (underneath the colourbond), for that do you still need to allow that later someone could come in and put other insulation on the ceiling?

   Yes   

> If I need some kind of protective covers, what are cheap but legal and safe options?

   Wooden boxes are cheep and can be made to give the correct clearances. A large tin can or metal shroud can be used but there are covers available from electrical wholesalers for this exact purpose.

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## craigj-au

Thanks for the replies! Another clarification, with the diagram and clearances, is that only if there is no cover, or with cover as well?

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## johnc

> Thanks for the replies! Another clarification, with the diagram and clearances, is that only if there is no cover, or with cover as well?

  It would be best to assume it is either with or without cover. Having said that when putting covers in our own ceiling an existing 50W halegon was almost touching a timber truss. No scorching so I guess it had enough air movement to prevent damage. We gradually removed all halegon globes replaced most fittings and installed ply covers that conform to the regulations for clearance. Metal shrouds where used where we couldn't achieve correct clearances. 
I would guess that using an appropriate cover in the right materials means without cover but I'm not an electrician so this doesn't answer the question.

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## craigj-au

I also found this item on the web: Products Page | Tenmat Downlight Covers 
Looks like it can be totally surrounded by insulation.. so maybe that suggests that the regulation diagram is only when uncovered..?

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## craigj-au

> Wooden boxes are cheep and can be made to give the correct clearances. A large tin can or metal shroud can be used but there are covers available from electrical wholesalers for this exact purpose.

  Wouldn't wooden box need same 100mm clearance since it would be considered combustible?

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## johnc

> Wouldn't wooden box need same 100mm clearance since it would be considered combustible?

  Absolutely

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## craigj-au

> Absolutely

  BTW I mean on the inside of the box. So the box has to over 200mm wide etc, yes?

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## Master Splinter



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## johnc

> BTW I mean on the inside of the box. So the box has to over 200mm wide etc, yes?

  It is for Halegon, we used compact flouro and LEDs, and made sure we exceeded those rules. For Halegon you would need a box inside measurement of 100mm either side of the luminaire so I guess you are looking at 260mm plus inside measurement. 
With LED's the risk is probably not heat causing a fire so much as reducing the life of the unit.

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## Master Splinter

> For Halegon you would need a box inside measurement of 100mm either side of the luminaire so I guess you are looking at 260mm plus inside measurement.

  Everything has to be a minimum of* 200mm* from the halogen fitting, except for the transformer which can be as close as 50mm.  See diagram in my post above.

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## sundancewfs

This is a great thread and throws up the one thing I think that is forgotten in this whole topic. 
When installing downlights, most people stand in the room and say " I'll have two nice rows along there please" Doing this is not possible as you cannot know where the ceiling joists lay without looking in the roof cavity. If downlights are to be an option in a new build. placement of lights should be included in the design process to take into account any structural elements in the plan. If it is not, there is no way of being able to safely comply with the regulations for fitting of light fittings. (unless blind luck happens).

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## craigj-au

How about the 3-in-1 bathroom units? Do they also have the same rules about distances, or are they usually safe with insulation?

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## csi.orange

With the use of Fluro down lights the manufactures will add a safety sheet with their fittings advising what clearances are required with their particular fittings, we use a CLA brand fitting that specifies 25mm clearance to side of beam using a 15 watt lamp, very effective, with out using a box or shield, as the fitting has a reflective shield as part of the fitting, in regard to bathroom heaters these are a concealed unit and can be mounted against joists, the only consideration is the clear ventilation above the unit to prevent them over heating when the heat lamps are on, the newer units have a safety device fitted that will turn the fan on automatically when the units get warm. 
Robert Licensed Electrician

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