# Forum More Stuff Go to Whoa!  Sydney cal bungalow first floor addition

## paddyjoy

So it's about time I started my own go to whoa.  *Background info* 
We bought our place back in 2009, semi detached Californian bungalow, mortgaged to the hilt but got a good price for the house due to the GFC. Location is perfect for us so we have no desire to move however house is only 80m2, master bedroom, small bedroom, bathroom, open living/dining and kitchenette. It's really only suitable for a couple and with two kids now and three of us sharing one bed it's getting tight! Block size is 160m2 so no room to extend, only option is to build up. 
Pics of the house when we bought it:    
Our neighbours have done an attic conversion and our place also came with approval to do an attic conversion. The approved plans would add one extra bedroom but we would still be left with our kitchenette and one bathroom so I was never really that excited by doing this. With the high pitch of the roof we have lots of space upstairs.   
Decided to go back to the drawing board, spent a long time trying to work two bedrooms in under the existing roof structure but it just wasn't going to work. One of the rooms wouldn't comply with BCA and they would both be very tiny bedrooms. Decided in the end to chance our arm and try and get approval to raise the roof. It was a long shot as lots of these don't get thorough, particularly when you are dealing with semi-detached houses however following many iterations of the design we managed to get council approval in March of this year. I did all the drawings and council submissions myself. I'm an engineer (electronic) so have had some previous CAD experience so the transition to architectural drawings was tricky but not unmanageable. 
Here is our new design, house will have 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and full kitchen. It will shift the house out of the couples market and make it a proper family home. 
There were lots of constraints from the council that had to be taken into consideration, especially because we are a semi.
- Couldn't raise the overall height of the building
- Roof pitches most remain consistent
- Can't modify the first 1/3 of the building, all windows/roof extension must be in back 2/3rds. *
Ground floor*
Knock out walls at rear, install sliding/stacking doors, new kitchen and new deck full width of house   
With all the walls knocked out we will have a large open plan area for the kitchen which will open out onto the deck. Stairs will go up against the party wall.   *
First floor*
Two bedrooms + Bathroom  
All three rooms will have velux roof windows, the largest (M08) to maximise light. The back north facing room will have a small balcony and bi-fold doors.   
The front southerly bedroom will have windows in the gable to catch as much light as possible. This room is a weird L shape but it was a compromise we had to make.   *Elevations*   *3d views*   
In summary work required will be: 
Upper level (2 bed + one bath)
New timber floors both levels
Demolish ground floor walls
New kitchen
Sliding/stacking doors at back
New deck  *Timing*
This will be a slow project, I'm anticipating about 2 years to get everything done. Once the building is scaffolded we will throw some resources at it and get the upstairs watertight as quickly as possible. The important thing here will be finding a good chippy to get the structure up quickly and efficiently. I need to try and prevent any damage to the 100 year old ornate ceilings on the ground floor. 
At this stage I have: 
Owner builder course - done
White card - done
Funds - 50%
DA Approval - Done
Structural Engineering - Underway now
Construction Cert - Sept 13 
Although not a huge project for the experienced builder this will be a reasonable challenge for me to pull off and I'm very excited about getting stuck in.

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## paddyjoy

First job after we moved in was to create a bit of space out the back by getting rid of the external laundry and 10 ton of blue metal the previous owners had dumped down to conceal everything. 
The easy part   
Blue metal gone - The existing timber deck posts were just sitting directly on the concrete below so I had to jack up the deck and install stirrups and footings.  
Getting rid of the slab(s) was terrible, seems like there were three different structures in this corner over the years and in some places it was up to 300 thick of tiles, concrete and this bitumen? stuff.   
Finally gone all gone and also cut a shelf out of the sandstone to make sure the garden would be level  
Soil delivered   
Couple of hours after this it started raining heavily, the word nightmare does not describe how bad it was shovelling mud off the road until 1am, followed by a couple of days of fear waiting for a call from the council after the drains at the bottom of the hill got blocked. I had no choice but to shovel it all over the front wall, ha ha   
All level and grass down

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## paddyjoy

Extended the fence to cover the gap, didn't have many options here. Digging post holes in solid sandstone = no fun

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## paddyjoy

Next we replaced the fence on the other side, the new fence is blackbutt with red river gum posts. Mainly done by my neighbour but I helped dig the holes......

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## paddyjoy

Next was to replace the front fence and side gate

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## paddyjoy

Thanks to Rod Dyson I fixed up all the internal cracking.   
Also I couldn't live with the old kitchen so I ripped it all out, right back to the joists and installed a temporary kitchen for now until we get further down the reno path  http://www.renovateforum.com/f176/fi...17/#post884631

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## paddyjoy

Not long after putting all the grass down I had to rip it all up from the front and side as we had a big problem with water leaking in under the house during heavy rain. Had to dig down to the foundations, install an agi and tank the walls. Took the opportunity to use up some old sandstone blocks for steps and also replace the old plumbing.

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## jatt

Digging post holes in solid sandstone = no fun 
Yeah after hiring a jackhammer (a really heavy hire bugger of a thing) I promptly went out and bought a lighter (but still capable) Makita unit.  A wise purchase as I have periodical reefs of sandstone on the block. So I feel your pain!!!!!

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## paddyjoy

Ok time for an update. All the engineering design is complete and I have applied for a construction certificate. I need to put in 4 steel beams, the largest is a 6.1m 250UB31 that will need to go right at the back of the house. I don't really have crane access (except from the neighbours garden) so this is going to be pain to get in. The engineer recommend I stitch one of the larger settlement cracks so I tackled that earlier this week, pretty straight forward procedure, rake out mortar and clean, inject bead of epoxy, insert helibar and then top off with epoxy. The epoxy cures to 80mpa and bonds to the bricks, securing both sides of the crack together.   
It's a bit messy but not too concerned as this wall will be battened and plasterboarded.

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## paddyjoy

Next job was to cut up the old water tank with a tin snips and get it out through a hole in the roof.   
Next I had someone come in and vacuum out the roof space, this was a nasty job, I felt sorry for him spending 5 hours up there but it needed to be done. 
Before  
After  
I thought it would be a good idea to get a few sheets of yellow tongue in while I had a hole in the roof, I underestimated how big a hole I would need and after the sheets were delivered I had no choice but to hack into the roof. I also didn't know they were 45kg each, fun couple of hours on my own  :Rolleyes:  I got 5 sheets in so at least I have a nice stable surface to work off.

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## paddyjoy

After some additional queries from the council we now officially have our construction certificate  :Biggrin:  
Scaffolding purchased and delivered, the cost to hire scaffolding in Sydney is so expensive it was cheaper to buy new.

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## paddyjoy

Most of the scaffolding is up now   
And all my steel has been delivered, not much space here so it's scattered everywhere including the street.

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## Uncle Bob

Looks like a real big job going on there Paddyjoy!
Thanks for the pics, interesting stuff.

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## paddyjoy

> Looks like a real big job going on there Paddyjoy!
> Thanks for the pics, interesting stuff.

  Thanks Bob! 
Couple of stressful hours this morning getting the steel beams into the roof space, I only had 80cm of clearance between the existing ceiling and roof hip so it was a bit tricky. I will need to manually manoeuvre the larger beam in the last bit by hand.    
I had to use the neighbours driveway as I have no access, they are now saying the crane damaged the concrete so that's the next issue to deal with  :Doh:

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## Gaza

Bloody wankers 
As if a tracked crane like that can damage a crappy old slab 
But would have been smart to put ply under it just in case 
tell them to go jam it and protend it didn't happen

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## paddyjoy

Originally they wanted the driveway resurfaced because they claimed the tracks did this   
I explained the rubber tracks couldn't do this and have photo's to show that the driveway was in this condition before. 
They conceded and now reckon that the weight of the crane caused a small section of the concrete to sink, blind freddy could tell you that this indentation happened 30 years ago when the slab was poured and some idiot parked on it before it had cured.

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## Gaza

Reckon the average family car would weigh more than that crane and a car has only 4 wheels that crane has bigger contact area

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## paddyjoy

The issue with the driveway has gone away after I produced some photos from 3 years ago that showed the damage was already there! Good thing I had them! 
Been a busy few days, have moved all the beams into position, levelled them off and this morning I had a mobile welder come and weld them all together. Starting to take shape now.   
He also chamfered the end of the big UB so it would ft under the roof tiles.

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## paddyjoy

Had some issues with levels this week, when I originally levelled all my steel beams I used the outside walls as a reference. I recently picked up a laser level and to my horror discovered that while everything was level in one of the bedrooms the ground floor ceiling joists were 35mm higher than every other room of the house. Basically what they had done was installed one of the hanging beams too high so the ceiling bowed upwards in the centre of the room. This meant that there wouldn't be enough clearance to run the first floor floor joists. Long story short I had to raise all the beams up 35mm, was a pain because they were all welded together but at least it is done now. 
Moving on, LVL's for the floor joists delivered yesterday morning, 230m of 170x45 hyspan. Most pieces are 10.2m long as I wanted to keep the joists continuous along the full length of the house.  
Each piece is about 50kg so not too hard to lift but they are pretty awkward to move around by yourself. Took me most of the day to get them all up into the roof space through a hole in the front of the house.  
All in  
Over the next few weeks I'll try and get most of the floor framed. With the roof struts I won't be able to get all the joists down but will see how I go.

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## ChocDog

Quite a project you guys are up to. Looking good though!

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## paddyjoy

Been really busy over the last few weeks with day job and family stuff so not a huge amount of progress. I have about 7 joists in now and should most of the rest in over xmas.   
Had some issues with levels again, most of the ceiling joists are 90x45 however for some reason some of the are 110x45, which means they interfere with the new floor joists. For example you can see the ceiling joist in the foreground is ok but the one in the rear is a few cm's taller.   
To get around it I have had to notch out the top of these taller ceiling joists.

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## paddyjoy

Ok time for an update, even though I had some time off over xmas I didn't get much done. With the hot weather working in the roof space was unbearable, with no insulation or ventilation the temperature up there was terrible. That combined with family stuff meant slow progress however it's been a bit cooler here in Sydney over the last two weeks so I have made some progress. 
Fixing plate installed to rear beam  
I could then finish off the joists for the back section  
Most of the joists are in by this stage except for the double outside joist and joist that will block my manhole access

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## paddyjoy

Monday I tackled the double outside joist, this was a bit of a milestone as I passed the point of no return. Up until now we could have walked away from the project but I have now hacked up the existing roof so no going back  :Sneaktongue:  
First step was to strip off the tiles 
Remove guttering, facsia, etc... 
Support rafters and cut back to allow space for joists  
Over the next few evenings I'll get this last joist in 
Next steps: 
- Tidy up floor framing and replace/install hanging beams
- Council inspection of floor framing
- Electrician to rough in cables for powerpoints
- Soundbatts between joists
- yellow tongue 
After all above is finished I can then start planning removing the roof and doing the wall and roof framing. I would really prefer this to be done by a professional carpenter but I'm finding it so hard to find anyone in sydney. I have had close to 20 different individuals/companies verbally tell me they would quote the work but after seeing the plans nobody wants to do it. I have only managed to get one quote and that was $12k for labour only to frame the walls and roof  :Rolleyes:

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## ChocDog

Whats the story with no-one wanting to do the job?

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## paddyjoy

Not sure, the last guy I had in on Saturday said it is too fiddly for him, fair enough maybe it is a bit tricky with all the beams. If you are only getting paid for labour then there's not much incentive there I suppose. I imagine there is lots of work available in the city at the moment where chippies can do larger jobs, supply materials, scaffolding etc and make some extra money on the markup. If push comes to shove I will have to do it myself however it will be very challenging for me, especially with the stress of having no roof on the house and trying to keep the water out. 
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

Made a big decision last week and we decided we are going to slate the roof. Originally we ruled this out due to cost (best quote we got for supply and install was 28k, $250/m2) but we have bought some Chinese slate that's cheaper than boral roof tiles, they are a light grey colour. Fingers crossed they won't fade.   
Now I just have the small task of moving them all into the garden by hand from the neighbours car park. This is the fun of renovating a property in the city with no driveway or crane access.

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## paddyjoy

Been delayed a bit with the wet weather but have finally moved all the  slate into our 20m2 garden, there's almost more slate than grass now.  
Electrician  has also been over to put down the cables for first floor power points.  I would have thought these cables would have been secured to the joists  but I guess it's not required in between floors.

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## RodEye

> Electrician  has also been over to put down the cables for first floor power points.  I would have thought these cables would have been secured to the joists  but I guess it's not required in between floors.

  I also would have have thought clip cables where possible within reason.Has the appearance of just another lazy tradesman or someone in a hurry.

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## paddyjoy

> Has the appearance of just another lazy tradesman or someone in a hurry.

  Yes maybe, I'll clip the cables myself as I don't like them lying on the plaster. If i ever need to cut a hole in the ceiling below I could potentially hit a cable.

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## paddyjoy

Pretty much finished the floor framing now and have booked the council in for an inspection on Thursday. Feeling a bit nervous about the inspection as I have no idea how much detail they will want to go into. Can anyone provide any insight into this? 
Are they going to ask me to justify every choice of hanger/fixing/fastener or is it more of a high level look for anything that breaches standards/BCA?

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## intertd6

> Pretty much finished the floor framing now and have booked the council in for an inspection on Thursday. Feeling a bit nervous about the inspection as I have no idea how much detail they will want to go into. Can anyone provide any insight into this? 
> Are they going to ask me to justify every choice of hanger/fixing/fastener or is it more of a high level look for anything that breaches standards/BCA?

  you should have supplied details of timber sizes, grades, spans, etc, if they don't have the details already they could be a bit picky, best to be on top of those details to separate yourself from the novices & build a rapport with the inspector showing him your trying to do the right thing.
regards inter

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## paddyjoy

> you should have supplied details of timber sizes, grades, spans, etc, if they don't have the details already they could be a bit picky, best to be on top of those details to separate yourself from the novices & build a rapport with the inspector showing him your trying to do the right thing.
> regards inter

  Thanks they should have all that already from the engineering drawings I supplied them but I'll make sure I have a copy printed out here in case.

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## Uncle Bob

I pity you having to move all that slate by hand mate. Things are coming along by the looks of it.  :2thumbsup: 
That front fence is looking superb by the way  :Smilie:

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## paddyjoy

> I pity you having to move all that slate by hand mate. Things are coming along by the looks of it. 
> That front fence is looking superb by the way

  Thanks Bob, the only issue I have had with the fence is that the light color means it gets really badly stained by the nearby wattle tree when it's in bloom. Didn't see that coming. 
Going to be fun getting the slate up onto the roof. Might have to hire a conveyor if the budget allows it.

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## paddyjoy

Building inspector was here today, all good "proceed to roof framing", u beauty....  :Biggrin:    
Was a pretty thorough inspection, was here for about 40 minutes and checked all the major beams etc and the following things at random points. 
- numbers of nails in hangers
- joists sitting in bottom of hangers
- lamination of double joists
- appropriate fixing of double joists to bearers
- checked if nuts were tight on bolts
- joist spacing 
and a number of other things I can't remember now!

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## SlowMick

Congratulations.  All your worrying and preparation paid off.  Have a frosty one to celebrate and keep the pictures coming.  :2thumbsup:

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## paddyjoy

> Congratulations.  All your worrying and preparation paid off.  Have a frosty one to celebrate and keep the pictures coming.

  Thanks Mick I have had a renovation free weekend to recover! 
Managed to get a couple more quotes for the framing, a large company quoted me $16k including materials, 4-5 days to complete. I decided to give them the go ahead but when they found out we wanted to keep the existing ceilings and didn't wanted them to substitute the 170x45 LVL rafters with 240x45 0regon the price went up to $22k, booooo 
Got another one for $21k for labour, 2 carpenters + labourer for 4-5 weeks (not days), material, tarps etc all extra... 
I actually noticed today that someone near me is doing a similar project, would you consider the below framing to be: 
a) perfectly acceptable
b) bit sloppy but ok
c) no good

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## DuckCommander

> I actually noticed today that someone near me is doing a similar project, would you consider the below framing to be: 
> a) perfectly acceptable
> b) bit sloppy but ok
> c) no good

  d) What on earth is that?

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## Gaza

Looks s / house 
No clue wat top plates for   
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> d) What on earth is that?

  Ha, here is the full picture

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## paddyjoy

After spending the day replacing the hanging beams that have become detached from the ceiling joists, I lost my footing and slipped onto the ceiling, so p*ssed off  :Banghead:   :Bawl:

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## Cecile

> After spending the day replacing the hanging beams that have become detached from the ceiling joists, I lost my footing and slipped onto the ceiling, so p*ssed off

  Look on the bright side.  You missed the decorative moulding.  I see that as a win, in spite of the inconvenience.

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## paddyjoy

> Look on the bright side.  You missed the decorative moulding.  I see that as a win, in spite of the inconvenience.

  Thanks Cecile your right it is lucky I didn't hit the moulding, only for I managed to grab hold of a roof strut I would have gone the full way through  :Shock:   
Time to visit the plastering forum!

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## paddyjoy

My heavy footedness cost a week to the schedule but it is pretty much fixed now. I gave it a go myself rather than getting a plasterer in, because the ceiling is 90 years old it pretty forgiving and I'm happy with the result. Basically took all of sat/sun and a couple of nights this week to get it done, was very fiddly. 
I replaced the full panel because I didn't want the hassle of trying to join gyprock up to the old plaster. This also meant I had to replace the long piece of timber framing the panel.   
While I was making a mess of the lounge room I decided to take the plunge and cut an access hole where the new stairs will eventually go. It was getting a bit dangerous trying to squeeze up through the old hatch in the bathroom.

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## paddyjoy

Made a start on installing the acoustic sound block batts this evening. In order to make the acoustic batts stay up securely in between the new floor joists I'm installing a lower layer of cheap insulation below them. Sounds crazy but this worked out to be the cheapest and easiest option. The yellow glasswool batts are sitting between the existing ceiling joists and then the acoustic rockwool batts are running perpendicular sitting between the new floor joists.

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## paddyjoy

Had a bit of time over easter to get stuck into the reno, wife and I have black hands now after playing with ultraset for 4 days. All the yellow tongue is down now, the sycon for the bathroom is just sitting loose as we haven't finalised the bathroom layout yet.   
Hard to visualise what it will look like with the low roof still there but basically looking in this direction the layout will be: 
Yellow lines: Bed 1 6m x 3m
Purple: bathroom 1.8m x 3m
Blue: Bed 2 5m x 3.1m
Brown: Balcony 2.4m x 1m
Red: Stairs 0.95m width    
Was a pretty fiddly job as we are still keeping the existing roof for now so all the struts had to be moved to allow the YT sheets to go down then moved back again to get the next sheet etc, etc... Also because the sheets need to go out to the outside joists they had to slide under the ends of the rafters.

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## paddyjoy

Next steps will be to rip the roof off and get stuck into the framing. At this stage I have decided I'm going to give it a go myself. I can't find anyone that's really interested in doing it and I feel like I have achieved so much now that I might as well keep going. 
The roof won't come off for about 8 weeks because we are waiting for some Velux skylights to get shipped out from the UK. Velux released a new line of electric skylights in Feb this year but Velux Australia are still selling the old ones and have no plans to introduce the new Integra model here (typical). The only way to get the new models is to ship them out here by sea yourself. The shipping company are going to build a crate around them so fingers crossed they should be pretty well protected.

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## ChocDog

> wife and I have black hands now after playing with ultraset for 4 days.

  
Told you! 
BTW, looking good. Pretty impressive task you're tackling there.

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## paddyjoy

> Told you! 
> BTW, looking good. Pretty impressive task you're tackling there.

  Thanks it all started pretty innocent but I'm pretty far down the rabbit hole now  :Shock:  
My wife is a absolute legend and has spent some of the renovation budget on getting me a decent mitre saw for my birthday, my previous mitre saw I picked up at the salvos so this is a massive upgrade!

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## ChocDog

Ha. Looks familiar. Its much better than the old one I've used before. Bit of an overkill, but hey, I like toys...(oh, and the fact that it can be pushed hard against a wall is bloody useful)

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## paddyjoy

It's definitely a nice toy, will have to cut a hole in the roof to get it upstairs! 
Looks like yours is getting a decent workout.

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## paddyjoy

Been pretty quiet the last few weeks, we have had some design issues with the skylights for the upstairs bedrooms that needed to be resolved. Basically we were planning to use manual velux roof windows however in order for them to be manually operated they need to be quite low in the roof. Putting them low in the roof means you would be looking straight into the side of our neighbours house, not a nice view. To solve this we have decided to opt for electric roof windows instead and put them higher up clsoer to the ridge, the only issue here is that velux australia don't sell the latest Integra model so I have to import them myself from the UK. 
I found a building company in the UK that were nice enough to pack some windows up in a timber pallet, they are leaving next week and will take 5 weeks to get here by sea but worth the wait.

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## paddyjoy

While I'm waiting for the roof windows to arrive I'm going to carry on doing what I can without pulling the full roof off. 
Last weekend I started working on the biggest roof beam, it's a 2/200x45 LVL and will be installed towards the front of the house. The beam takes the load from the front section of the roof (via a post) allowing the bedroom underneath to remain completely open.     
Here's some progress pics, the beam is just resting in place for now as I will need to get the positioning spot on before securing it. The LVL's are also slightly bowed so I'll need to try and straighten them by clamping them together when I laminate them. I'm going to laminate them in place as the beam will be too heavy otherwise.

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## DuckCommander

So RB1 replaces the need for strutting beam, do you need to increase the underpurlin as well?
I've got to get a 5m 250PFC in my roof, close to 200kg of it

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## paddyjoy

> So RB1 replaces the need for strutting beam, do you need to increase the underpurlin as well?
> I've got to get a 5m 250PFC in my roof, close to 200kg of it

  Essentially yes, if RB1 wasn't there (which was an option) the post would need to come right down to the first floor level and the load would be transfered through the new floor. With RB1 the load is going to the outside walls. 
I'm replacing all the rafters with 200x45 LVL's so the underpurlins and struts will all be removed by the end! 
That would have been fun to install, its amazing how unmanageable things become once you need to get them up above head height!

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## paddyjoy

So this week I installed a tilelink safety anchor, it's pretty easy to install and is very concealed. I was lucky because I could install it from the inside using a ladder, a big bonus when you're scared of heights like me!   
We also had our first leak this week, seems like the cheap bunnings plastic I was using temporarily under one of the hips had totally disintegrated, I'm assuming from the sun

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## andy the pm

I like the safety anchor, will have to get one for our place.

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## paddyjoy

> I like the safety anchor, will have to get one for our place.

  They are slightly more expensive than the standard ones but I think the concealed look is worth a couple of extra dollars.

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## paddyjoy

While waiting for our skylgiths to arrive from the uk I have decided to frame up as many walls as I can. Bit of a risk however I'm reasonably confident my drawings are accurate and they will all just fit together perfectly once the roof comes off  :Fingerscrossed:  
First two are done now, should get the last external wall (gable end) done next weekend.

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## paddyjoy

The skylight saga continues as we have decided the stairs is probably going to be a bit dark and we would like to add an additional skylight above it, looks like it's back to the council with another S96  :Rofl:  
I'm thinking something really big with this one and want to put in one fixed piece of glass 800x4000, with the frame hidden, running above the stairs so that when you come out onto the landing you can see into the distance towards the city.   
Getting quotes for this has been a challenge as there is no skylight product of this size and it looks like the only option (other than joining two skylights) is to get a glazier to put some extrusions around the glass, attach to the rafters and then flash it. The cost to get the glass, extrusions and installation is about $5k and then I need to flash it myself when doing the slate roof. Is $5k excessive for this? I know that a double glazed unit of this size is around $1k so $4k for installation and extrusions might be a bit over the top considering I still have to flash it myself and take all the risk of it leaking?

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## Gaza

5 k doesn't sound bad 
Ally only be 500 bucks plus powerder coating 
Few blokes for day 
I know a good commerical glazing company pm if interested   
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## paddyjoy

Had some luck getting the skylight organised this week. What I have discovered is that the glazing standard is pretty complex and everyone seems to interpret it differently. Having glanced through it myself there are a number of things used to determine the glass thickness. 
- Span of glass
- How it is supported
- Pitch of glass, less than 30 degrees means it is trafficable
- Wind rating
- Aspect ratio
- Height of glass from floor below, more than 3m means it needs to be laminated 
I was getting specs ranging from 15mm glass down to 3mm from various companies! Found a guy in Sydney that will custom make an alloy framed skylight with a low E double glazed unit, 6.3mm + gap + 10.5mm, both laminated/toughened for about $3k so pretty happy with that. By the time I get it installed it will probably come in around to $4-5k. From the inside there will be no frame visible so you will just see sky. It will be something like below.

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## paddyjoy

We had great weather here in Sydney this weekend so took the opportunity to strip off some tiles and tackle the next roof beam, RB4 on the drawing. This forms the junction between the old roof pitch and the new roof. There will be a valley gutter running along this towards the back of the house. It's a 4m 200x45 LVL so pretty manageable to get into position.

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## paddyjoy

Our custom skylight arrived this morning, all 120kg of it. Was a bit of hassle getting it in over the front garden wall with just two of us. I have no idea how I'm going to get it upstairs so it's going to live in the lounge room for a couple of weeks..... 
Glass is framed with a capral aluminium extrusion, attached to a timber frame and there are some custom flashing pieces made from colourbond that can be seen in the pics.

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## paddyjoy

The rest of our skylights finally got here from the UK last week, importing them was a relatively painless process however we got hit with a $500 quarantine bill because the pallet protecting the windows was made from untreated timber and had to be destroyed  :Doh:  lesson learnt for next time. 
Got the back external wall framed also, this was an absolute nightmare to get accurate and took a number of attempts.   
Next stage roof will be coming off, hopefully sometime in September depending on how the weather goes.

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## phild01

The quarantine bit would hurt, seems an excessive costing...(maybe it's the Macquarie Bank)!

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## paddyjoy

> The quarantine bit would hurt, seems an excessive costing...(maybe it's the Macquarie Bank)!

  Actually cost a bit more than $500, it's a money making scam, exact costs were: 
Quarantine formalities (paper work) $156
Quarantine Attendance (have a quick look see) $104
Cartage of timber to destruction location $98
Quarantine destruction fee $325
Total $683
+GST $68
Total $751

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## phild01

> Actually cost a bit more than $500, it's a money making scam, exact costs were: 
> Quarantine formalities (paper work) $156
> Quarantine Attendance (have a quick look see) $104
> Cartage of timber to destruction location $98
> Quarantine destruction fee $325
> Total $683
> +GST $68
> Total $751

  Typical government Mafia activity! :Annoyed:

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## Armers

I should get a job as a quarantine attendant... 104$ for a quick look! 
Looking good though! 
Cheers

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## paddyjoy

> I should get a job as a quarantine attendant... 104$ for a quick look!

  I asked the same question myself! 
What's even more annoying is that I'm almost 99% sure that they didn't actually destroy the timber pallet. The shipping agent is claiming that they destroyed the pallet and build a new one but the timber pallet I received looks identical to the one that was sent from the UK based on the pics. The agent probably pocketed some of the money. 
Anyway can't complain as I got the latest model windows for cheaper than they are selling the old models here.

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## paddyjoy

Weather forecast is looking a bit better for the next few weeks so it's time to bite the bullet and take the roof off.   
All the external walls are framed and ready to go and today I have finished pre cutting all the rafters, they are 200x45 LVL's with the tails cut down to 130x45 so that the new eaves can match the rest of the building. Fingers crossed all my CAD drawings are right, otherwise I'm stuffed...   
MFE (minter for everything) and SHMBO climbed up the ladder for an inspection!

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## paddyjoy

It's been two long sleepless nights but finally the severe weather warning has been cancelled for Sydney. It was gusting up to 90km/hr overnight and it was not fun here under a tarp. No matter how tight I tied it down it was still slamming down on the roof violently. Anyway seems like the worst of it is over now. 
In terms of progress, all the tiles are off, took 2 days to do which was longer than expected but unfortunately the weather held us back. It was a process of tarp off, 30 minutes of de-tiling, tarp back on for 30 minutes, repeat.....   
Tomorrow I'll cut back the rafters and stand the new walls up, I'll need to get some rafters up also as quickly as possible so I don't create an upper story swimming pool with the tarp between the walls.

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## paddyjoy

Wind, rain, wind, rain, bloody weather..... 4 days in and I'm about 1 day behind schedule. The constant tarping and de-tarping is chewing up way too much time, anyway not much I can do about it except complain  :Smilie:  
Cut away all the old rafters today and propped up some of the old roof that we will be temporarily keeping. It's good to finally get a feel for the space.    
Rain got consistent in the afternoon so started erecting the walls under the tarp.

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## paddyjoy

Been pretty busy here over the past two days, walls are up, ridge beam is up and rafters are up on one side. 
Feels good to be able to walk around in the space now.

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## phild01

> Been pretty busy here over the past two days, walls are up, ridge beam is up and rafters are up on one side. 
> Feels good to be able to walk around in the space now.

  Is there any bowing of the ridge beam being raftered one side only?

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## paddyjoy

> Is there any bowing of the ridge beam being raftered one side only?

  No its good. I know ideally I should have done both sides together however that side was turning into the biggest swimming pool every time it rained so I really had to get it done last night so I could get some sleep. Friday night I was up there every 2 hours draining it. 
The ridge is 240x63 LVL, bloody heavy, still wonder how we actually got it up there ha ha

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## paddyjoy

House is getting a bit awkward to tarp now with the new valley.   
All the structural posts are in and all of the new rafters are in with the exception of the gable ends. Haven't figured out exactly how I'm going to do the gables yet as one of them will be a long glass window so I can't have outriggers resting on the windows. Might have to notch the second rafter in and run an outlooker from the the third rafter to the verge rafter. I'll tackle the gable ends tomorrow and also finish off the bracing, 
Council inspection on Friday so need to get everything tidied up by then including the internal walls.

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## phild01

Hi Paddy
Have you read this one: http://www.renovateforum.com/f232/ce...-right-113737/
just wondering about the ridge board and if it was designed as a ridge beam.

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## paddyjoy

> Hi Paddy
> Have you read this one: http://www.renovateforum.com/f232/ce...-right-113737/
> just wondering about the ridge board and if it was designed as a ridge beam.

  Thanks Phil yes saw that one. Mine is definitely designed as a ridge beam (it's what I requested of the engineer), so roof is non-coupled and doesn't require collar ties.

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## shauck

That's funny. I just posted on that thread and suggested a load bearing ridge beam

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## paddyjoy

> That's funny. I just posted on that thread and suggested a load bearing ridge beam

  Hopefully my certifier will know the difference between the two!

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## OBBob

Great project. There'd certainly be some challenges working upstairs on a fairly tight block (with kids).

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## paddyjoy

> Great project. There'd certainly be some challenges working upstairs on a fairly tight block (with kids).

  Yes some big challenges, looking forward to getting it watertight, living under a tarp is getting old now!

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## paddyjoy

Internal walls are now in (not that there are many!)   
Bathroom size worked out ok and not as small as we feared. There will be a big skylight above the bath.   
I'm putting in a staggered stud wall on one side so that we can have a wall hung toilet with the waste going straight down through the bottom plate. Also should reduce some noise passing into the back bedroom.

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## barney118

Why did you go through the expense of putting up a second level when your room can't be utilized with the short wall the rafters are sitting on? What is this space useful for?  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> Why did you go through the expense of putting up a second level when your room can't be utilized with the short wall the rafters are sitting on? What is this space useful for?  
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Hi Barney, it was cheaper than moving  :Biggrin:  
Some of the space is too low to be usable and will be converted to storage however the bulk of the rooms are ok in terms of head height.

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## barney118

> Hi Barney, it was cheaper than moving  
> Some of the space is too low to be usable and will be converted to storage however the bulk of the rooms are ok in terms of head height.

  I just flicked through the thread to come up to speed, what did the council say in regards to habitable room definition with your design? How big will the house be when finished in m2?  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> I just flicked through the thread to come up to speed, what did the council say in regards to habitable room definition with your design? How big will the house be when finished in m2?  
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  The rooms are habitable according to the BCA so the council were happy with it. 
I did have to do a drawing to prove it though!    
Floor area downstairs is approx 70m2, upstairs will add about 40m2. Stage three we have about 30m2 downstairs in the dungeon that can be converted if we have any energy left!

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## barney118

> The rooms are habitable according to the BCA so the council were happy with it. 
> I did have to do a drawing to prove it though!    
> Floor area downstairs is approx 70m2, upstairs will add about 40m2. Stage three we have about 30m2 downstairs in the dungeon that can be converted if we have any energy left!

  So habitable not 2.4 m? I thought 2.1 for bathrooms kitchens but you have 2.2?  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## phild01

2.2 min likely because ceiling is raked and averages out well!

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## paddyjoy

Yeah what Phil said, its 2/3rds of the room must be over 2.2m if the room is in an attic or directly below a roof line. For normal rooms it's 2/3rds must be above 2.4m.

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## paddyjoy

Certifier was here today and signed off on the roof and wall framing, happy days  :Drink Nl:  
I have one gable left to frame then hopefully monday will start on the sarking and battening.

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## phild01

:Cheers2:

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## paddyjoy

So, I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck in some sort of labour camp, it's been 17 days straight now of flat out work ha ha. I have 6 days left before I go back to my day job so I need to get this house semi-watertight, sans-tarp. 
No real pictures to update, been working on the roof battens for the last 2 days, probably have another 2 days work to get them all in. It's slow going because the battens are rough sawn oregon, all random lengths so each one needs to be cut to length and installed against a reference point (measuring back to the gutter line). It's pointless trying to use spacer blocks or anything like that as they are rough sawn and the discrepancies add up if you don't measure each batten back to the gutter line. Because we are installing slate there is a batten every 200mm  :Rolleyes:  Would have been nice to use 8m lengths of dressed pine battens however I was advised against this by a number of sources so lets hope the work pays off. Apparently the wet timber will help the copper nails enter easily and when the timber dries out/shrinks it will grip the nails firmly. 
It's raining here at the moment, I have the tarp off the front of the house and the sarking is working it's magic, no leaks,  happy days.

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## paddyjoy

Pulled the tarp off this morning as the forecast is good for the next few days. 
All the sarking is done but still some small sections to batten up the back of the house. Hopefully will get that done tomorrow so I can start some slating.

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## phild01

Looking great, let's hope we get more of the blue stuff (sky).

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## paddyjoy

> Looking great, let's hope we get more of the blue stuff (sky).

  Thanks forecast is looking good until sunday!

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## paddyjoy

After nearly 5 days the battens are pretty much all done, what a job. It was pretty scary down the back section as it's 10 metres down to the garden and I hate heights. Even with the full safety harness on there was some serious white knuckling happening with every gust of wind!  
3 skylight frames are now installed, the two in the pic below are in the bedrooms and are the velux integra we shipped over from the UK. Seems like it will be fiddly getting the sashes back in as they are 3m off the ground but that's a problem for another day.

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## OBBob

I had to lift triple-glazed sashes into my roof-window frames in a cathedral ceiling around 4m off the ground (alone). I ended up putting my scaffold below the frame and installing the window from the inside. It sort of meant I had to angle outside and clip it in (if that makes sense). I hired good quality glazier suction cup handles, which I couldn't have done without.

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## ChocDog

Paddy, am constantly getting impressed with the level of project your tackling by yourself, impressive mate! Re you skylights; i'm guessing you did the install? Any concerns regarding the flashing/water penetration or was it pretty easy to become confident that there'd be no problem.

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## DuckCommander

Hmmm, I didn't see the three batten splices in a row  :Shock:

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## phild01

> Hmmm, I didn't see the three batten splices in a row

  Me neither!

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## paddyjoy

> I had to lift triple-glazed sashes into my roof-window frames in a cathedral ceiling around 4m off the ground (alone). I ended up putting my scaffold below the frame and installing the window from the inside. It sort of meant I had to angle outside and clip it in (if that makes sense). I hired good quality glazier suction cup handles, which I couldn't have done without.

  Thanks for the tips the scaffold and the suction cups seem like the way to go as the sashes are pretty ackward to handle.

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## paddyjoy

> Paddy, am constantly getting impressed with the level of project your tackling by yourself, impressive mate! Re you skylights; i'm guessing you did the install? Any concerns regarding the flashing/water penetration or was it pretty easy to become confident that there'd be no problem.

  Thanks it's been pretty hectic here to be honest! 
Not too worried about the skylights as the flashings are quite big and there seems to be a good seal between the window frame and the flashings. It's going to be a long time before I actually get around to plastering the inside so I'll have a few months to monitor them from the inside to check for leaks.

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## paddyjoy

> Hmmm, I didn't see the three batten splices in a row

  Thanks for the pointer I'll fix this up before I slate it. Do you know where the rules around roof batten splicing are kept, couldn't find anything in the usual standards?

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## paddyjoy

Made a start on the slate this weekend, I have to say it's incredibly therapeutic, tapping in the copper nails and seeing the brick bond pattern unfold. It is however an art and something I reckon you need to get a good few roofs under your belt before you start to get proficient at it. I think ours will look fine from the street but up close you can see a few inconsistencies. The chinese slate (always blame the materials) is also not the greatest, a lot of the slates aren't a uniform thickness and aren't flat however really I can't complain given the price of them. 
Back to the day job tomorrow so it will be evenings and weekend work from now on  :Laughcry:

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## Renopa

That's going to look great....really suits your style of house.   :Biggrin:

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## Gaza

Not bad effort on the slates  
Are you now tarping again   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> That's going to look great....really suits your style of house.

  Thanks the slate is a pretty traditional material so it should suit most houses of that era. The only issue is that it will be pretty different to the neighbours on the other side of the semi but what can you do, I think they are going to go colourbond with their roof sometime in the future.

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## phild01

Yeah, that will look the part, will always look right compared to the colourbond. 
Keen to see a distant shot of the finished roof.

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## paddyjoy

> Not bad effort on the slates  
> Are you now tarping again   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Thanks it's a bit of a learning curve but have studied my slating bible book and should get a bit cleaner as I progress! 
The tarp is curled up in a ball in the back yard and I'm reluctant to pull it back out, hauling that thing up by yourself is a nightmare ha ha Rain isn't forecast until Thursday so I'm thinking by then I might be able to get away with some lightweight small tarps from bunnings just to cover over the smaller openings. My box gutter is being delivered tomorrow so I will be able to rest that in position and have the sarking drain into there. It won't be perfect but it will get rid of most of the water. Glass is in 2 out of 3 skylights so should get the other on in by thursday.

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## paddyjoy

> Keen to see a distant shot of the finished roof.

  Give me a few weeks, the more distant you are from it the better it looks ;-)

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## paddyjoy

Things have been going pretty slowly the last two months, mainly due to family visiting from overseas and a general lack of planning on my part. I underestimated the amount of time it would take to get a window and a set of bifold doors made up at this time of year which has slowed everything down.  
Good news is I should have both here before xmas. The bifolds are coming from a company in Melbourne, even with a $600 delivery charge the price is significantly more competitive than anywhere in Sydney (almost half) and they didn't try and talk me out of getting double glazing!  
At the front of the house we are putting in a large trapezoid window, it's going to be one single double glazed unit with a minimal cedar frame. Due to the size of the unit (4.5m x 1m) this is apparently also coming from Melbourne!  
The window will be street facing and will reduce the privacy in the front bedroom significantly so we decided to get some electric switchable privacy film. It's incredibly expensive here but can be bought directly from China for a 1/10th of the price. The quality of the sample seemed pretty good but as they say time will tell once we get the full product in there.    
Three velux skylights are in and flashed, one window leaked about 5 drops of water during a storm about 6 weeks ago and hasn't leaked since so pretty happy about that. The glass in the big one was a pain to get in even with two of us. Without a proper platform there was no way of lifting it up that high using ladders. In the end I carried it up the roof and lowered it in from the outside, installed a temporary platform underneath to stop it falling through the hole.    
Due to bad planning in the early stages I ended up having to build a double wall on the side of the first level. To be honest it has actually worked out ok as we will now have a pretty good insulated/soundproofed wall.    
Only benefit of going slowly is we get lots of progress aerial shots through near maps lol!!!    
Slate on main section is done and have made some progress with the fascias/barges. Slating will continue once the front window is in.

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## OBBob

Nice. How do you get nearmap, do you have it at work or have you signed up privately?

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## paddyjoy

> Nice. How do you get nearmap, do you have it at work or have you signed up privately?

  I'm lucky as my brother has an account with his work!

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## phild01

Not sure if you get it but that last pic had me thinking (for just split second) I was looking at a cabin boat. 
Don't sweat it going slow, makes me feel better about my pace :Smilie:

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## paddyjoy

> Not sure if you get it but that last pic had me thinking (for just split second) I was looking at a cabin boat. 
> Don't sweat it going slow, makes me feel better about my pace

  I know what you mean about the cabin boat. This little boat is going to have the biggest front window ever, delivered today, double glazed argon filled IGU, toughened glass, 4m long and 112kg! We definitely don't make life easy for ourselves, should have stuck with the original plan of three separate windows!

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## phild01

Geeze, hope you got it in a safe place now.

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## OBBob

Typical Australia Post,  just leave it out the front. Lol.   
Looks like fun for the weekend.

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## Bloss

mmm hope you measured at lest twice . . . good luck with the lift!

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## Renopa

We are all helping lift from afar...and thinking of you getting that into position!~!   Is that the switchable glass?  I wanted to fit that into a splashback window during a new build a couple of years ago and it was far to $$$$, but I guess like most things, it has/will come down in price.  Great idea though.  ;-)

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## paddyjoy

> Typical Australia Post,  just leave it out the front. Lol.  
> Looks like fun for the weekend.

  Ha ha Bob that's hilarious.   

> mmm hope you measured at lest twice . . . good luck with the lift!

  Usually I'm a measure once, buy twice sort of guy but in this instance I took a bit of extra care!   

> We are all helping lift from afar...and thinking of you getting that into position!~!   Is that the switchable glass?  I wanted to fit that into a splashback window during a new build a couple of years ago and it was far to $$$$, but I guess like most things, it has/will come down in price.  Great idea though.  ;-)

   Thanks yes it will be switchable but it will be done by adding a switachable film to the inside of the glass rather than having the switchable layer laminated inside the glass. I got a quote for the laminated switchable glass and it was $13k and only had a 12 month warranty!!! To get the film professionally installed is about $2-3k per square metre so still very expensive. What we are doing is importing the film directly from China for $380 per square metre and installing DIY, there is a risk the quality won't be there but it's worth a shot considering the price.

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## paddyjoy

> Geeze, hope you got it in a safe place now.

  Glass is in a safe place now as we got it up into the attic today. It was a very stressful lift even with 4 of us, the glass was a lot more flexible than I imagined and it was a challenge to keep it perfectly vertical while lifting. Apparently the toughened glass is very strong against forces applied perpendicular to the glass but when twisted/bent too much it can "pop" into thousands of pieces. 
We also got our big sklight up there at the same time which was good, this was much easier as the glass is secured to a frame. 
Feel like I need a beer or 10........  :Beer:

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## OBBob

Good to hear!  
The switchable film sounds interesting... I don't presently have a use for it but I have a strong urge to find somewhere I need it.  :Biggrin:

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## Renopa

Thanks for the info Paddy, I didn't know about the switchable film, then again I'm a bit like Bob and don't have a need for it in the current house.....or maybe I do???   got a nosey neighbour (90yo) who stands at her windows peering into my house 24/7 if I don't roll down the canvas awnings.  Considering using mirror window tint so she only sees herself!!   hahaha!! Worst part is whoever built her house positioned the windows so they line up exactly with the windows in my house.   
When I priced switchable glass 4 yrs ago, the glass alone (no window frame/installation/etc) was going to cost $8k for 2 x 900 x 600 to go into a 2 piece sliding window from benchtop to below the overhead cabinets.  Possibly it was such a small order they weren't interested, but it would have been perfect.   
One of the houses featured on Grand Designs used switchable glass as a wall on kids bedrooms on a mezzanine level so they had nice views or privacy, at the flick of a switch.  
;-))

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## paddyjoy

> Thanks for the info Paddy, I didn't know about the switchable film, then again I'm a bit like Bob and don't have a need for it in the current house.....or maybe I do???   got a nosey neighbour (90yo) who stands at her windows peering into my house 24/7 if I don't roll down the canvas awnings.  Considering using mirror window tint so she only sees herself!!   hahaha!! Worst part is whoever built her house positioned the windows so they line up exactly with the windows in my house.   
> When I priced switchable glass 4 yrs ago, the glass alone (no window frame/installation/etc) was going to cost $8k for 2 x 900 x 600 to go into a 2 piece sliding window from benchtop to below the overhead cabinets.  Possibly it was such a small order they weren't interested, but it would have been perfect.   
> One of the houses featured on Grand Designs used switchable glass as a wall on kids bedrooms on a mezzanine level so they had nice views or privacy, at the flick of a switch.  
> ;-))

  Nothing worse than a nosey neighbour like that. We looked at the reflective glass but the problem with it is that at night when the lights are on inside the mirroring effect works in reverse. So she could be looking in at you and you wouldn't even know, even more creepy! 
Smarttint.com are based in the US and ship diy adhesive film worldwide. Pricing is middle of the road, not as cheap as China but much cheaper than here. Worth looking at if you only have a small area but the costs do add up and exchange rate is rubbish at the moment.

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## Renopa

Thanks for the info.  Night stickybeaking wouldn't be a problem because I could just close the blinds, but during the day I like to have them open and let fresh air and light into the house.   
Will checkout smarttint.com and see what I can find.  The low exchange rate at the moment is terrible for those of us buying from the US...makes you think twice!! 
;-)

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## paddyjoy

> Thanks for the info.  Night stickybeaking wouldn't be a problem because I could just close the blinds, but during the day I like to have them open and let fresh air and light into the house.   
> Will checkout smarttint.com and see what I can find.  The low exchange rate at the moment is terrible for those of us buying from the US...makes you think twice!! 
> ;-)

  If you want to go real cheap this is the company in China I am dealing with, I haven't received the final product yet but will update with pics once I do. The sample seems fine.  Smart Glass, Smart Glass direct from Guangzhou Kaho Special Glass Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland)

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## Renopa

Thanks, will watch for your updates.

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## paddyjoy

So the film arrived from China this week along with a 70v transformer and remote.   
Bad news is that the adhesive layer is on the wrong side!!!!!! Because of the shape of the window you can't just turn the film around like you could with a square window. Completely stuffed now, don't know what I'm going to do to fix this one..... the film can't be installed on the outside because of the weather. Only option I can think of at this stage is to install the film on the outside and then put a thin pane of float glass over it.   :Banghead:   :Banghead:   :Banghead:   :Banghead:   :Banghead:

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## Gaza

Put it in plexiglass on inside   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## OBBob

Oh,  that is tough. At least if you can make it work on the outside little prying fingers can't scratch it!  
The other thought was that I'd be a bit nervous sticking it to such an expensive window and not being able to cleanly remove. Is it worth trying to have a piece of perspex cut to size and then stick it to that. The perpex could go on the inside then... and be removed if required.

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## Renopa

Bummer!!

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## paddyjoy

The plexiglas/perspex is a good idea but I don't think I can get it 4m long. I'll have to do a ring around tomorrow. Firstly I need to see if the manufacturer will replace it since they got it wrong, I don' like my chances though.... 
I agree with you Bob it would be nice to have the film protected from little hands.

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## OBBob

The specialised perspex places may be able to do that... hopefully. I'd avoid the kitchen sort of places and go straight to the industrial type of suppliers. I can think of one in Melbourne but not up your way I'm afraid.

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## paddyjoy

Didn't have much luck finding anything due to Xmas shutdowns however the film manufacturer have come back and said they will replace the film, happy days!!!

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## OBBob

Great news!

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## paddyjoy

Yes its great news, I was surprised. 
Bifold doors just arrived in time for xmas.

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## paddyjoy

Happy new year everyone  :Fireworks:  
Made a bit of progress over xmas and now have another section slated, starting to come together slowly now. 
Yesterday was a big day also as we demolished the front part of the roof and put in new rafters, planning to batten and start slating that this weekend. 
After that we will need to tackle the ridge capping between the two houses. It's a bit fiddly and messy so if I can I will get someone in to do it, if I can find anyone...

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## OBBob

Looks good. How are the neighbours with all the work?

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## Renopa

Gotta love that slate roof!!  Looking good Paddy.

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## paddyjoy

> Looks good. How are the neighbours with all the work?

  Thanks they have been pretty good considering it has been going on for a year now. We both have kids so most of the work is done during reasonable hours, not too many early mornings! The main annoyance is caused by all the bits of sarking flapping around in the wind but hopefully it won't be too much longer before we get everything watertight.   

> Gotta love that slate roof!!  Looking good Paddy.

  Thanks the terracotta is slowly disappearing ha ha

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## paddyjoy

Was pretty hot over the weekend but managed to get some work done. The front section has been battened, ready for slate! 
At the back we also did some demo in preparation for the big skylight. It will sit up on the new double rafters and be directly above the stairs. Should allow some nice light down into the downstairs and also give a nice outlook from the top of the stairs.

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## Gaza

You must be tried of working on the place week after week   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## OBBob

> You must be tried of working on the place week after week   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Noooo.... the end is in sight!  :Biggrin:

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## Renopa

When there's light at the end of the tunnel you get a real boost!   
Good work Paddy!

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## paddyjoy

> You must be tried of working on the place week after week   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Yeah it can be a bit physically and emotionally draining doing this part time. Some weeks can be super productive and we can smash through things, other weeks things just drag and drag.... 
Nothing is every easy also, didn't mention above but even though I provided a full cad drawing of that trapezoid double glazed unit, they still got it wrong and made it 20mm too long so it doesn't fit in the window frame  :Doh:  I could jump up and down and make them replace it but I would need to wait another month for viridan to assemble a new one in Melbourne and ship it up. Then I would need to pay for labour hire to get the new unit up there, not worth it. Will just have to put the router to use and make the frame bigger.   

> Noooo.... the end is in sight!

  I wish, we still have to do downstairs after this is done!   

> When there's light at the end of the tunnel you get a real boost!   
> Good work Paddy!

  Good one ha ha  :2thumbsup:

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## OBBob

Arrg, you are having a tough run on the windows.

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## paddyjoy

> Arrg, you are having a tough run on the windows.

  Yeah the window is cursed!

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## paddyjoy

Today we installed the big skylight, was pretty awkward getting it up, glad it's done.     
The black strap was just a precaution to stop it sliding down the rafters on a one way trip to the garden. 
Unfortunately didn't get it flashed before the rain set in so we are a bit flooded here now but not much we can do about that until tomorrow.

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## OBBob

That does look awkward!

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## Renopa

Great view from the skylight, you'll be able to watch thunderstorms and fireworks without leaving home.    
Sorry you got flooded last night.

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## paddyjoy

The privacy film saga continues, finally got the replacement batch from China however when we attempted to remove the protective layer on the film it de-laminated down the middle. I'm over it so just going to try and glue it back together, it's only one corner so hopefully won't be too noticeable  :Toobad:

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## OBBob

You knew it was a bit of risk with this supplier but it's still a shame it is causing such hassles. Hopefully it works out.

----------


## paddyjoy

> You knew it was a bit of risk with this supplier but it's still a shame it is causing such hassles. Hopefully it works out.

  Yes it was a risk, in fairness though this one wasn't their fault and I'll have to accept responsibility for it. 
No other progress here as we have spent the last 6 weeks doing a renovation (non-structural) on an investment property. This should be finished in the next few weeks so can get stuck back into this place, getting a bit too comfortable living under bits of sarking ha ha. 
There will be some exciting stuff coming up in the next few months as we are going to use the funds we saved on labour to make some big purchases......

----------


## paddyjoy

Been a while but finally managed to have a go at installing the privacy film, it was a nightmare job as it had to be installed mm by mm in order to get it bubble free. Anyway after all that the edges have decided not to adhere and they are gradually lifting up more and more each day. It looks shocking as some patches have extended in significantly now  :Censored2:  
There was also heaps of crap on the adhesive layer of the film that had to be picked out with a tweezers as we went along, it was like some type of sand had made it's way onto the adhesive during manufacture.

----------


## Uncle Bob

Maybe you can build a frame around the edges to hide the lifting parts. This frame could have foam in it to try and stop any more peeling back.

----------


## paddyjoy

> Maybe you can build a frame around the edges to hide the lifting parts. This frame could have foam in it to try and stop any more peeling back.

  Thanks Bob yes I'm planning to put a frame around it which will help hide the edges and electrodes. Just worried it will keep lifting further and further but if I can keep some pressure like you suggested that could work.

----------


## OBBob

What a pain ... is that window likely to cop much sun?

----------


## paddyjoy

> What a pain ... is that window likely to cop much sun?

  Yeah it's a royal pain. It will get a bit of sun but privacy is the main concern. Manufacturer says to glue the lifted bits down with "glass glue" so will have to investiagte if I can get a glue that will be complety clear. Either way we will just have to live with it I think and change it in 4 or 5 years when the price of the technology drops. 
You get what you pay for I suppose.

----------


## METRIX

> You get what you pay for I suppose.

  It's a shame the manufacturing stuffed up, but unfortunately your right, China can manufacture goods, but they are let down by the finer details due to lack of Quality Control measures.
If this was from a local guy you could have them come out and investigate the problem, but being overseas it's just bad luck. 
I guess you should be able to find some sort of glue locally that might fix the problem, but I suspect to get the level of finish it really needs to be applied in a controlled method by a machine

----------


## paddyjoy

> It's a shame the manufacturing stuffed up, but unfortunately your right, China can manufacture goods, but they are let down by the finer details due to lack of Quality Control measures.
> If this was from a local guy you could have them come out and investigate the problem, but being overseas it's just bad luck. 
> I guess you should be able to find some sort of glue locally that might fix the problem, but I suspect to get the level of finish it really needs to be applied in a controlled method by a machine

  Yes I agree, not much quality control going on. Some of the film just does not adhere at all and there is also another big streak in the middle that we noticed once we took the protective layer off today. Anyway for a 1/6th of the local price it was worth a try, we will replace in a couple of years time when it becomes cheaper. There is a place in Melbourne that laminates the glass with PDLC film sandwiched in the middle, seems like the way to go in future however they only offer a 1 year warranty. 
We tried some glues today and also tried removing and replacing some parts of the film but it was just making things worse so we decided to just put the glass in and move on.... 
On the plus side the kids love it, it serves the purpose and the defects aren't noticeable from the street  :2thumbsup:

----------


## Gaza

That's pretty dam cool   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## justonething

It looks pretty good from the pictures.

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## paddyjoy

> That's pretty dam cool   
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  It operates by a radio remote so we had fun today switching it on and off and watching the expression on peoples faces as they walked past  :Roflmao:    

> It looks pretty good from the pictures.

  It's a bit like my slating, the further away you are the better it looks!

----------


## phild01

Same old story with the things we do, the things we notice usually not perceived by others as any big deal.
Doing it's job with great effect.

----------


## paddyjoy

> Same old story with the things we do, the things we notice usually not perceived by others as any big deal.

  Yes I agree, it's hard to put things in perspective sometimes.

----------


## Renopa

Paddy that window looks amazing.  I wanted to use it in a kitchen splashback window in the last house but the cost changed those plans, have never seen it irl just photos on websites which we all know are photoshopped to some degree so you don't know what it will 'really' look like.   
I don't think it's a bad thing to be hard on yourself, it shows you care about the job you are doing....I'm the same!!  LOL

----------


## paddyjoy

Thanks I'm pretty happy with it now that its starting to come together. 
For a splashback I think the Chinese film would be fine, most of the problems we had were exaggerated by the fact that we were doing such a large area (4m x .8m) in one piece. If you were doing standard size windows this would be a lot easier to install and repair.

----------


## paddyjoy

So I have finally started working on the ridge capping for our roof. I was worried about doing it so I have been putting it off for about 9 months now ha ha 
My main worry was around the area where the shared ridge meets the individual hips and the slate meets the neighbours terracotta. There is a lot of stuff going on in this area, including the skylight and box gutter but I think I have it all under control now.   
At least the straight bits of the ridge are a bit simpler.

----------


## Moondog55

Looks like it's coming together well from the outside pictures
I am impressed with your effort and the work you've put in

----------


## paddyjoy

> Looks like it's coming together well from the outside pictures
> I am impressed with your effort and the work you've put in

  Thanks it's starting to look a bit more polished now, the inside and back half of the house are a completely different story, total mess. 
Got a heap of little jobs done over the last few weeks, the front section of the roof is now slated and all the barges, flashing and fascias are on. Sparky came and helped move the electrics onto a new barge.   
The pointing is also all done now, it's a real art and I understand now why it is so hard to find a good roofer who will do it. It's like icing a cake, very hard to get a smooth result when your balancing up there with a trowel in one hand and bucket in the other. Anyway it looks like a bit of a dogs breakfast but at least it is functional.   
Doesn't help when you are doing it in the dark by torchlight  :Tongue:

----------


## paddyjoy

So tomorrow is one year since we pulled the roof off and still not watertight, things are going painfully slow with only having weekends to work on the house. 
Anyway I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and we are planning to be watertight in the next 4-6 weeks hopefully. 
Last few weeks have been working on the back and final section of the roof.    
This is now demolished and the balcony has been framed. Waterproofer finished up last week, next step bifold doors.

----------


## phild01

I hope the drain can handle a major Sydney dump, but looking good.

----------


## paddyjoy

> I hope the drain can handle a major Sydney dump, but looking good.

  Thanks I hope it can too  :Unsure:  otherwise I'll be building a roof lol 
I put in a 100mm drain so it should take a large amount of water

----------


## phild01

Not so much how much it can take but how quickly the floor can get the water to it.  Is there a small lip at the door.

----------


## paddyjoy

> Not so much how much it can take but how quickly the floor can get the water to it.  Is there a small lip at the door.

  Yes there is a 70mm step up, I used some alu angle and the waterproofer went right up to the top of the angle so it should hold back a decent amount of water.

----------


## phild01

It will, so a step over threshold, sensible.

----------


## phild01

Were these areas fabric taped?

----------


## paddyjoy

Yes it looks like it was taped all around the edges and also on the joins of the sycon sheets.

----------


## phild01

> Yes it looks like it was taped all around the edges and also on the joins of the sycon sheets.

   :2thumbsup:

----------


## paddyjoy

Been a while sine I have updated, things plodding along slowly as usual. 
Biggest milestone is that I have now finished the slating, 2500 slates and 5000 copper nails later  :Tongue:  The back section was pretty rough but nobody can see it so not really worried about the aesthetics of it.   
Bifolds are also in now so finally we are free of tarps  :Biggrin:

----------


## Moondog55

What's the next step then?
I do like that small veranda and porch and we can see you making progress

----------


## paddyjoy

> What's the next step then?
> I do like that small veranda and porch and we can see you making progress

  Thanks the next step is to get the stairs in. We are planning on having a suspended stairs, one side of tread will be attached to wall and the other side will be suspended with white powder coated rods. A little bit like this.   
Stairs will come up through here   
and the rods will come up through the PFC on the left   
Should be an interesting part of the project and will be good to get rid of the ladder!

----------


## METRIX

Opps, your bracing should be wrapped and fixed under the bottom plate

----------


## phild01

> Opps, your bracing should be wrapped and fixed under the bottom plate

  I thought he left it long so he could do it later, but it needs doing. 
edit: Oh, that looks like a steel beam underneath, wonder if it can be tucked under somehow.

----------


## turnstiles

Metrix - does that mean you need to attach your bracing straps to the underside of the bottom plate before it is put down? (I need to know these things for my own building!!)
I guess angle bracing doesn't?

----------


## paddyjoy

> Opps, your bracing should be wrapped and fixed under the bottom plate

  Thanks Metrix, with this wall I didn't wrap it under because the plate would not sit flush on the steel. How would you usually get around this? 
I'm planning on replacing all the strap with f27 ply bracing as I have had other issues with the strap. I found that all the strap I put in went loose after a few weeks which was a concern. Maybe because it installed it on a cold winter morning?

----------


## phild01

Did you tension the straps after you installed the frame and then nail off? The bottom plate could be rebated slightly for the strap if of any concern.

----------


## METRIX

> Thanks Metrix, with this wall I didn't wrap it under because the plate would not sit flush on the steel. How would you usually get around this? 
> I'm planning on replacing all the strap with f27 ply bracing as I have had other issues with the strap. I found that all the strap I put in went loose after a few weeks which was a concern. Maybe because it installed it on a cold winter morning?

  You could have chiseled out a small section of the bottom plate and affix the strap into this to allow the plate to sit flat on the bar, only requires about 3mm deep.
If you did not use tensioners then yes there is a chance they will come loose, strap bracing should always wrap around two face of any terminating member to give the bracing adequate anchoring points. 
I prefer to use angle bracing where possible, your option of ply will solve your issue.

----------


## METRIX

> edit: Oh, that looks like a steel beam underneath, wonder if it can be tucked under somehow.

  Could be tucked under but cannot be fixed as the steel is in the way so it's useless, may as well cut it off.

----------


## phild01

> Could be tucked under but cannot be fixed as the steel is in the way so it's useless, may as well cut it off.

  Agree, just wondered how far the steel flange extended out.

----------


## paddyjoy

> You could have chiseled out a small section of the bottom plate and affix the strap into this to allow the plate to sit flat on the bar, only requires about 3mm deep.
> If you did not use tensioners then yes there is a chance they will come loose, strap bracing should always wrap around two face of any terminating member to give the bracing adequate anchoring points. 
> I prefer to use angle bracing where possible, your option of ply will solve your issue.

  Thanks I used the tensioners and I tightened them pretty tight but they still seem to be a lot looser now, particularly the ones in the roof. Not having the experience to know what is tight enough I'm just going to put ply up as well, to be sure  :Tongue:

----------


## phild01

If they weren't folded over then the tensioning may not be as good.

----------


## paddyjoy

> If they weren't folded over then the tensioning may not be as good.

  True but this was the only wall where they weren't folded over, all the others were done properly and they still went slack.

----------


## paddyjoy

Ok time for an update, not a lot going on over xmas but have been trying to tick off some of the smaller jobs in-between family stuff. 
Progress has been made on the stairs, the rods supporting the suspended threads have been machined and will be going to get powder coated next week. They are 12mm solid bar, threaded on both ends   
The ceiling has been removed in preparation   
I looked at a few options for drilling into the underside of the supporting steel beam and decided the best option was to use this as an opportunity to buy a magnetic base drill  :Wink:  I have 32 x 14mm holes to drill from the underside so this should help out, it would have been painful doing it with a hand drill.

----------


## Gaza

Why don't you roll the beam over ? And drill from other side down might be easy to line up holes

----------


## paddyjoy

> Why don't you roll the beam over ? And drill from other side down might be easy to line up holes

  The beam I'm drilling is already in place so have to go from underside  :Tongue:

----------


## Armers

> I looked at a few options for drilling into the underside of the supporting steel beam and decided the best option was to use this as an opportunity to buy a magnetic base drill  I have 32 x 14mm holes to drill from the underside so this should help out, it would have been painful doing it with a hand drill.

  Mag drills are great, just remember to go slow and use cutting compound (oil or paste). Especially when you get to the other side as it can rip the steel and not cut cleanly. If you can get the a pin for the drill bit too (not sure what they're called) this will aid in pushing the "bullet" out once drilled. Also i would personally tether the drill to something as well with a short bit of rope. The temptation to flick the mag switch is a little to high sometimes (even more fun at 60mtrs)!! 
Cheers

----------


## Gaza

> The beam I'm drilling is already in place so have to go from underside

  I was thinking it was still on floor

----------


## Armers

> I was thinking it was still on floor

  It is still on the top floor though!?  :Doh:

----------


## paddyjoy

> Mag drills are great, just remember to go slow and use cutting compound (oil or paste). Especially when you get to the other side as it can rip the steel and not cut cleanly. If you can get the a pin for the drill bit too (not sure what they're called) this will aid in pushing the "bullet" out once drilled. Also i would personally tether the drill to something as well with a short bit of rope. The temptation to flick the mag switch is a little to high sometimes (even more fun at 60mtrs)!! 
> Cheers

  Thanks for the tip I have some cutting fluid here. I will be using a drill bit/chuck rather than a broach but I'm told that should be fine as long as I go slow. Will definitely be putting a safety tie somewhere, imagine if there was a power cut and it came crashing down!

----------


## paddyjoy

> I was thinking it was still on floor

  Well technically I have two pieces to drill, the one in the ceiling and the one on the floor. The piece that is on the floor will be installed flush with the ceiling, it's a bit like a fake beam. The rods will pass through both pieces of steel so the holes will have to line up perfectly otherwise the rods will be at an angle. I'm planning to drill 3mm pilot holes in the piece on the floor, then clamp that onto the piece in the ceiling, using the holes as a guide to drill 3mm pilot holes into the ceiling beam with a hand drill, then go back and drill all the holes to 14mm with the magnetic drill. Do you reckon that sounds like a reasonable plan?

----------


## OBBob

> The beam I'm drilling is already in place so have to go from underside

  
... and it helps justify the mag drill.  :Smilie:

----------


## paddyjoy

So the first attempt was a total fail. If anyone needs a 4m length of 100x75 angle with random holes drilled in it let me know  :Tongue:  It seems that when drilling pilot holes with the 3mm bit it seemed to wander and holes ended up all over the place, well that's my excuse anyway. 
For the second attempt I went straight for the 13mm bit and drilled through both pieces together, by the end of the weekend I was wrecked, bloody awkward lifting the drill into position upside down, positioning it and then hoping it doesn't jump into a different position when you engage the electromagnet, 32 times. Better than doing it by hand though and have a new toy so can't complain..... 
Had to punch a hole in one of the walls to fit the drill underneath, the wall is due to come out anyway so do big deal.

----------


## OBBob

You can't punch a mark to locate the bit when starting the pilot hole?

----------


## Bloss

> You can't punch a mark to locate the bit when starting the pilot hole?

  Really important to use a centre punch when drilling steel and accuracy is important. That allows the pilot bit to track well (and for precision work use new bit to as well or uneven faces will skew the bit as out drill). And use lubricant even on the pilot hole, especially when going to the larger bit.

----------


## METRIX

> So the first attempt was a total fail. If anyone needs a 4m length of 100x75 angle with random holes drilled in it let me know  It seems that when drilling pilot holes with the 3mm bit it seemed to wander and holes ended up all over the place, well that's my excuse anyway. 
> For the second attempt I went straight for the 13mm bit and drilled through both pieces together, by the end of the weekend I was wrecked, bloody awkward lifting the drill into position upside down, positioning it and then hoping it doesn't jump into a different position when you engage the electromagnet, 32 times. Better than doing it by hand though and have a new toy so can't complain..... 
> Had to punch a hole in one of the walls to fit the drill underneath, the wall is due to come out anyway so do big deal.

  Ahh, these things always look and sound easy, until you start to do it. 
Floor lokos good.

----------


## Armers

Looking good man! Keep up the photos!

----------


## justonething

paddyjoy,
I have had bits going off centre for years. For much of the time, I thought it was just me. I have tried scribing a cross with a knife and then followed by a centre punch. It sort of worked, but they were still inevitably slightly off centre, no matter what I did. 
Now I found out if you want to drill truly dead on centre, you'll have to do something with your drill bits. Normal bits looks like this  
The extremity of the bit is an edge, instead of a single point, so it is inevitable that it will wonder off centre until it bites into the materials, the duller the bits are, the further off centre it will be. Centre punching and scribing will help, but can not eliminate it completely. The answer from all the metal workers' wisdom is to use a 4 facet bit which looks like this.  
This drill bit has a single point at the tip, which then bites into the steel, creating spiral waste strips, rather than metal filings. 
Unfortunately, most commercial bits sold are 2-facet bits, probably because it is much cheaper to produce them that way. So if you can find some 4 facet ground drill bits, get them they would certainly help.

----------


## Jon

I seem to remember that for precision work you start with a prick punch that has a much finer delicate point than a centre punch.  The prick punch gives you an accurate start for the centre punch and then you can give it a good whack to give you a start for the drill.

----------


## METRIX

Have you tried cobalt split point's these don't seem to wander, and drill through steel like butter.  Jobber Drills - Heavy Duty Cobalt | Sutton Tools

----------


## phild01

[QUOTE=METRIX;1004115]Have you tried cobalt split point's these don't seem to wander, and drill through steel like butter. 
Hey Metrix, Bunnings Thornleigh came up in the store locator, would you know if they have it as a shelf item or as a special order?
C&W (H&G) also came up as do other hardware outlets, just suspect they all have to order in.

----------


## justonething

[QUOTE=phild01;1004129]  

> Have you tried cobalt split point's these don't seem to wander, and drill through steel like butter. 
> Hey Metrix, Bunnings Thornleigh came up in the store locator, would you know if they have it as a shelf item or as a special order?
> C&W (H&G) also came up as do other hardware outlets, just suspect they all have to order in.

  I'd recommend giving _Smith and Arrow_ a try. They seem to be quite good and a sponsor of the _Woodworkforums_. You also get a _discount_ if you are a member of that forum.

----------


## phild01

[QUOTE=justonething;1004136]  

> I'd recommend giving _Smith and Arrow_ a try. They seem to be quite good and a sponsor of the _Woodworkforums_. You also get a _discount_ if you are a member of that forum.

  Thanks for that, though for just one half inch drill bit shipping killed it...darn it!

----------


## justonething

[QUOTE=phild01;1004137]  

> Thanks for that, though for just one half inch drill bit shipping killed it...darn it!

  You know you get 20% (I think) with the discount code and free shipping when it's over 30 dollars right. Do some more shopping - ear plugs, masking tape; spend more to save 12 dollars shipping  :Smilie:

----------


## phild01

[QUOTE=justonething;1004138]  

> You know you get 20% (I think) with the discount code and free shipping when it's over 30 dollars right. Do some more shopping - ear plugs, masking tape; spend more to save 12 dollars shipping

  Didn't see the bit about free shipping, I'll get some extra bits then..thanks j1t  :Smilie:  
edit:  just noticed free shipping for orders over $20...wow, that's very good.

----------


## justonething

:2thumbsup:

----------


## paddyjoy

Thanks for all the tips guys, hopefully what I have done is close enough and I won't have to make a third attempt! I never thought about using a punch to mark the spot, it would have made lining up the drill bit so much easier  :Doh:  
Justonething, I was using a cheap bit from bunnings so that probably didn't help, it definitely wasn't a fancy 4 facet bit! Even with the solid 13mm bit some of the holes did come a bit off centre, unfortunately until I hang all the rods I can't really determine how much this will impact the visual aspect of the stairs, it may be really noticeable or it maybe one of those things that only I will notice. 
So next step is to get all the bits powder coated and hope that the rods still fit into the holes after painting, rods are 12.7mm diameter and holes are 13mm, going to be tight  :Eek:

----------


## Craigoss

Great post paddyjoy, I have just caught up on reading. I'm in the planning stage at the moment of doing an attic conversion. I have about an 8x5m space in the roof around the purlins which you can walk without hitting your head. Still trying to get my head around how to get all the materials (i-joists, timber, yellow tongue, gyprock) into the roof with only a small walkway and 4m up to the gutter.

----------


## paddyjoy

> Great post paddyjoy, I have just caught up on reading. I'm in the planning stage at the moment of doing an attic conversion. I have about an 8x5m space in the roof around the purlins which you can walk without hitting your head. Still trying to get my head around how to get all the materials (i-joists, timber, yellow tongue, gyprock) into the roof with only a small walkway and 4m up to the gutter.

  Sounds good will it a habitable space or just storage? If habitable it can be hard to meet the BCA requirements after the height you will lose from the joists. 
Getting material up there is a pain, if you can live with it I would cut the opening for the stairs sooner rather than later.

----------


## Craigoss

> Sounds good will it a habitable space or just storage? If habitable it can be hard to meet the BCA requirements after the height you will lose from the joists. 
> Getting material up there is a pain, if you can live with it I would cut the opening for the stairs sooner rather than later.

  Yes habitable, master bedroom, ensuite and walk in wardrobe. I haven't done the calculations yet to meet the BCA. I wasn't too concerned about it as it's a 35deg pitch roof, I think there will be enough head height. I will be living in the house at the time of renovation. I was hoping to not open up the stairs until the very last minute to reduce the amount of dust and disruption in the house. As I've only just completed a full house reno, wife now tells me i need to build another room in the roof.

----------


## phild01

You could temporarily plastic seal around the new opening, even have a temp door to it.

----------


## phild01

[QUOTE=justonething;1004138]  

> You know you get 20% (I think) with the discount code and free shipping when it's over 30 dollars right.

  Hi just1thing.
Been on the site and have also spoken to Ben.  He wanted to give me the code but he couldn't remember it. Might need some help finding it.  Thanks.

----------


## METRIX

[QUOTE=phild01;1004129]  

> Have you tried cobalt split point's these don't seem to wander, and drill through steel like butter. 
> Hey Metrix, Bunnings Thornleigh came up in the store locator, would you know if they have it as a shelf item or as a special order?
> C&W (H&G) also came up as do other hardware outlets, just suspect they all have to order in.

  Yeah I think most Bunnings stock these as shelf items, Thornleigh has a semi decent drill selection but not everything like the bigger stores. Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse  
.

----------


## paddyjoy

> Yes habitable, master bedroom, ensuite and walk in wardrobe. I haven't done the calculations yet to meet the BCA. I wasn't too concerned about it as it's a 35deg pitch roof, I think there will be enough head height. I will be living in the house at the time of renovation. I was hoping to not open up the stairs until the very last minute to reduce the amount of dust and disruption in the house. As I've only just completed a full house reno, wife now tells me i need to build another room in the roof.

  Ha ha! The BCA is pretty strict unfortunately, hence the reason we ended up raising the roof. There are a few tricks you can do like adding a dormer at the back of house.

----------


## phild01

> paddyjoy,
> I have had bits going off centre for years. For much of the time, I thought it was just me. I have tried scribing a cross with a knife and then followed by a centre punch. It sort of worked, but they were still inevitably slightly off centre, no matter what I did. 
> Now I found out if you want to drill truly dead on centre, you'll have to do something with your drill bits. Normal bits looks like this  
> The extremity of the bit is an edge, instead of a single point, so it is inevitable that it will wonder off centre until it bites into the materials, the duller the bits are, the further off centre it will be. Centre punching and scribing will help, but can not eliminate it completely. The answer from all the metal workers' wisdom is to use a 4 facet bit which looks like this.  
> This drill bit has a single point at the tip, which then bites into the steel, creating spiral waste strips, rather than metal filings. 
> Unfortunately, most commercial bits sold are 2-facet bits, probably because it is much cheaper to produce them that way. So if you can find some 4 facet ground drill bits, get them they would certainly help.

  Only thing I am thinking - how to resharpen.  Often I need to resharpen my bigger bits, and just use what oil is at hand when drilling. 
BTW  just found the code for S&A

----------


## justonething

> Only thing I am thinking - how to resharpen.  Often I need to resharpen my bigger bits, and just use what oil is at hand when drilling. 
> BTW  just found the code for S&A

   Cool. If you still need the code at some stage let me know.
Drill bit sharpening- if you sharpen it by hand or use one of these drill sharpening attachments that are common on the market. You will get bits looking like the first picture. To get 4 facet sharpening. You need a special jig. Tormek has one but is damn expensive. There are a no of people that roll their own and you can track their discussions on metalworkforums. As far as split point sharpening I have no idea. The wildest guess is that they first grind  it at 135 deg and then make a secondary relief at 118 deg.

----------


## paddyjoy

So all the stairs bits and piece are away getting powder coated so we are doing some gyprocking and insulating in the meantime. 
We have put in two layers of insulation in the roof to fill the full depth of the rafters, one layer of rockwool acoustic batts to block the plane noise and the rest is filled with cheap stuff. The insulation has made a significant difference, it is much cooler up there now and most of the background noise is blocked out  :Smilie:  
Unfortunately hanging the gyprock has highlighted some errors that I made in the early days that now have to be rectified. One massive screw up was that I didn't centre one of the skylights correctly, so tomorrow I'll be removing some ridge capping, de-slating part of the roof, dismantling all the skylight and flashing flashing, moving the skylight and re-roofing, what a massive PITA  :Mad:

----------


## Spottiswoode

Bummer, when I had to roof windows installed I didn't exactly know where I needed them, so got the installers to put them in where I thought. Turned out to be off centre a bit. Now I have to live with it, but made the best I could out of it putting a return in the wall immediately beside the windows. It's what happens when you don't plan properly.  
With hindsight, I would have done it differently, but that's how it is now and how it will stay. The room is big enough for it not to be a problem. 
thans, for the thorough postings, it is a great thread to read.

----------


## paddyjoy

> It's what happens when you don't plan properly.

  Yeah it's interesting (and painful) to discover how all the tiny details done during the early framing stages flow through to cause dramas at the end, especially in these types of projects that have lots of angles bits and pieces intersecting each other. 
For me I centred the skylight between the two lvl rafters correctly but the rafters weren’t in the right position in relation to the internal walls (which hadn't been built at the time). Because the room is only slightly wider than the skylight there would have been 90mm on one side and 150mm on the other which would have really stuck out.   
All fixed now but set us back a day  :Doh:

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## OBBob

What a pain ... at least you'd be pretty good at skylights now!  :Smilie:

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## paddyjoy

> What a pain ... at least you'd be pretty good at skylights now!

  Yeah that's true however I'm getting so sick of it ever time I have to re-flash it I pay less attention to the details and it's starting to look like a dogs breakfast. At least it's in the valley section of the roof and can only be seen from space  :Sneaktongue:

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## paddyjoy

Everything is back from the powder coater, reasonably happy with the it. Overall the finish is really good but there are a few defects in some places, for example, looks like someone has grabbed the paint before it has cured in the first picture?     
Hopefully it won't look too much like a prison cell once all the rods are in  
The cover plate came back also, I had some legs welded on the back so it can be installed from above.    
There is a bit of an issue with the holes, while the rods technically fit through the holes the inside of the holes are rough and damage the powder coating. I'm going to have to sit down with a hand reamer and try and smooth them out, without damaging the surface of the plate  :Doh:

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## paddyjoy

Started hanging the gyprock also in the front room, so many angles, especially around the skylight and on the underside of the beams, it's giving me nightmares...... :Yikes2:

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## Spottiswoode

> Started hanging the gyprock also in the front room, so many angles, especially around the skylight and on the underside of the beams, it's giving me nightmares......

  I hear ya. After all the work you've done I assume you are setting yourself? That's not fun either.

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## paddyjoy

> I hear ya. After all the work you've done I assume you are setting yourself? That's not fun either.

  Yes unfortunately, I'm reasonably confident with the recessed joins but the external angles that aren't 90 degrees will be tricky I imagine. Any deviation along the underside of those beams will be really noticeable. I went to the gyprock trade shop the other day and got some pvc adjustable beads so hopefully that will help!

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## paddyjoy

Spent some time getting familiar with a hand reamer this week, this is a pretty awesome tool. I bought an adjustable one so I was able to enlarge and clean the holes with minute accuracy until I got the perfect fit. 
The first picture really shows how messy the drill bit leaves the holes.

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## paddyjoy

Another month down, this one has actually been reasonably productive by my standards  :Smilie:  
I have been working on a concealed sliding door system for the storage in one of the kids room. The system we bought was a sugatsune MFU-1000 Flush Sliding Door Hardware|MFU-1000MONOFLAT UNISON FLUSH SLIDING DOOR SYSTEM 
The system is really designed for cabinetry so it has thrown up a few issues. The siding door needs to be 28-30mm thick, I couldn't find any doors this thickness so I decided to build a door with mdf and gyprock. This has the benefit of the door and the surrounding surface having the same texture. 
I'll try and make a video of the door in operation but for now here are some pics of the setup. When I plaster it up it should look pretty good, for now you will just have to use your imagination. 
There is a 3mm gap around the door on top and sides  
When you push the door it moves backwards first before sliding to the right    
Ready for plastering

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## paddyjoy

Our deck has been designed by the engineer and I have put in the 4 required footings. 
It's a reasonably simple design with one long PFC supported by 4 posts, deck joist to cantilever out over PFC

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## paddyjoy

Stairs is progressing also, I'm using a flat bar, chemset to the wall with M12 bolts for the wall side stringer.   
I have been busy in the evenings welding brackets for each tread  
Unfortunately I didn't clamp it well enough and now it is a bit distorted/warped (lesson learnt). This combined with the uneven wall is going to result in another box of packers being used  :Redface: )  , 
For now treads are just going to be standard clear pine, will most likely replace them once we decide what we are doing with the flooring.

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## Spottiswoode

> I have been busy in the evenings welding brackets for each tread

  How did welding in the dining room go? Can't say that's something I've seen before (or would be allowed to try)

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## paddyjoy

> How did welding in the dining room go? Can't say that's something I've seen before (or would be allowed to try)

  Ha ha it wasn't too bad, didn't make much of a mess or destroy anything! Even though it's not that heavy it's super awkward to move around and didn't want to risk flashing the neighbours if doing it in the garden.

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## MorganGT

> didn't want to risk flashing the neighbours if doing it in the garden.

  You weld naked? :Shock:

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## Pulse

> You weld naked?

  good for your tan!  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> You weld naked?

   

> good for your tan!  
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Ha ha  :Burnt:

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## wozzzzza

> good for your tan!

  it will give you freckles as well.

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## METRIX

How many treads on on those stringers ?

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## paddyjoy

> How many treads on on those stringers ?

  There's 17 treads, so 18 rises. The rise is 186mm, in my opinion it would be a much safer and more comfortable stairs if I could have had had 18 or 19 treads but the BCA doesn't allow it.

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## METRIX

I thought it looked close to the Max. 
How are you going to cover the not and threads sticking out ?, the treads are supported on cables on the other side

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## paddyjoy

> I thought it looked close to the Max. 
> How are you going to cover the not and threads sticking out ?, the treads are supported on cables on the other side

  The nuts holding the stringer to the wall? I'm planning to tac weld the nut to the stringer then cut the excess threaded rod away. I'm going to gyprock the wall with clips and furring channel so the finished wall will be out about 30mm further than it is now, this will cover the stringer and nuts. The wall is really uneven so this will help but unfortunately it means drilling about 180 holes  :Frown:

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## paddyjoy

Been a pretty busy two months here, well at the weekends anyway. 
In an earlier post I mentioned how our party wall is curved and out of plumb. Because the stairs needs to be perfect to the mm I had to pack out the stair stringer with packers, we then had no choice but to gyprock the complete wall top to bottom to hide the deviations. Because of glancing light from the skylight I then had to take the plunge and skim coat the entire wall, this was a real pain. I was so over it by the time I got the end I didn't spend enough time sanding the top coat so there are some imperfections when the light hits it directly but this is much better than seeing joins.         
skim coat   
painted

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## paddyjoy

Next step was to get the stairs in. 
With the open risers it doesn't comply with BCA but the plan is to replace the treads at a later time when we replace out flooring, it will have to do for now. The treads are whitewashed clear pine, cost about $300 for all 17 of them.     
You can see from this picture that the rods are bolted through a pfc, the lower cover plate is just for aesthetics and will be lowered down to match the ceiling height when the new ceiling goes in.

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## METRIX

What are you to put on the backs to make them compliant ? 
What will you replace these with  ?, they look good.

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## paddyjoy

> What are you to put on the backs to make them compliant ? 
> What will you replace these with  ?, they look good.

  We are thinking of completely closing the back so it would look something like this. Maybe in oak or another light timber, depends on what we do with the floorboards. The beauty of the stairs is you can just unscrew and replace each step individually.   
Unfortunately I don't have a thicknesser so I had to order dressed timber, the quality is pretty bad to be honest, if you look at the pictures below you will see the first one is cupped and the second one is bent (bit hard to see but you can tell by the visual gap in the pic). Some are bent, twisted and cupped lol. Also when they were delivering the timber they put that metal strapping around it which put massive gouges in some treads  :Rolleyes:

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## METRIX

Yeah the closed backs look good, although the open backs look better  :Smilie:   
If you had gone to the Sydney Timber show on the weekend, they had heaps of timber slabs there, you would have found some real nice timber to make them from. 
Some that would have worked well are Camphor Lauryl these were cheap and had nice grains to them ( but might be a bit soft to walk on) most slabs were cut to around 30-40mm thick, but would really need putting through a thickness-er to get them real accurate.

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## paddyjoy

> Yeah the closed backs look good, although the open backs look better   
> If you had gone to the Sydney Timber show on the weekend, they had heaps of timber slabs there, you would have found some real nice timber to make them from. 
> Some that would have worked well are Camphor Lauryl these were cheap and had nice grains to them ( but might be a bit soft to walk on) most slabs were cut to around 30-40mm thick, but would really need putting through a thickness-er to get them real accurate.

  Yeah I also prefer the open riser but with a 186mm rise it's hard to find a good looking solution that complies with BCA. 
Thanks for the tip off, I'll have to check it out next year, I'm sure I'll still be working on the house  :Smilie:

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## paddyjoy

Ok so time for a bit on an update. 
Next job on the list was to get started on the outside deck. Decided to go with steel post and bearer as this eliminated the need for cross bracing between the posts.

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## paddyjoy

Hit a major milestone last month and managed to get one of the upstairs bedrooms fully plastered and painted. Put down a temporary floor (ikea laminate) and moved the kids in  :Party:  only took 3 years................... 
They have a red ikea night light but we had to quickly throw that out as it made the house look like a brothel from the outside lol!   
We decided to have no skirting boards upstairs so as a trade off I installed some cheap LED strips between the floor and wall as an alternative night light. These were massive hit with the kids and smoothed the transition into the new space.   
Built another sliding door to conceal some of the their toys etc.... another hit with the hide 'n seek

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## paddyjoy

Moving the kids upstairs allowed us to demolish their room and open up the ground floor of the house.   
The deck joists went in next followed by some yellow tongue for temporary decking.

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## paddyjoy

Next step was to get the sliding glass doors installed. It goes against my nature but this one had to be left to the professionals. Each panel was 220 kg so the glass was lifted in from a neighbours property.

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## SlowMick

that's awesome. renovating on a massive scale.  :2thumbsup:

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## Spottiswoode

> that's awesome. renovating on a massive scale.

  Yup, way better than paint, a few cushions and a couple of stupid looking pendant lights.

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## Moondog55

Nice
Fire escape off tha balcony too?

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## METRIX

> We are thinking of completely closing the back so it would look something like this. Maybe in oak or another light timber, depends on what we do with the floorboards. The beauty of the stairs is you can just unscrew and replace each step individually.   
> Unfortunately I don't have a thicknesser so I had to order dressed timber, the quality is pretty bad to be honest, if you look at the pictures below you will see the first one is cupped and the second one is bent (bit hard to see but you can tell by the visual gap in the pic). Some are bent, twisted and cupped lol. Also when they were delivering the timber they put that metal strapping around it which put massive gouges in some treads

  This is something that could work for yours, simply make the treads thicker. 
I am doing my own stairs based on this design, just not floating and using Stainless cables, they will be spotted gum or Ironbark.

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## paddyjoy

> that's awesome. renovating on a massive scale.

   

> Yup, way better than paint, a few cushions and a couple of stupid looking pendant lights.

  Thanks guys, been a crazy few years but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.   

> Nice
> Fire escape off tha balcony too?

  Are you referring to the ladder or trampoline lol?

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## paddyjoy

> This is something that could work for yours, simply make the treads thicker. 
> I am doing my own stairs based on this design, just not floating and using Stainless cables, they will be spotted gum or Ironbark.

  Thanks yes this could work, my rise is 186mm so if I used 65mm thick treads that would solve the issue. 
On yours will the cables be running vertical up to the ceiling?

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## METRIX

> Thanks yes this could work, my rise is 186mm so if I used 65mm thick treads that would solve the issue. 
> On yours will the cables be running vertical up to the ceiling?

  Yes my cables are running to the ceiling, I put in additional support specifically for the cables to attach onto when I moved the stairs to their new location.

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## paddyjoy

> Yes my cables are running to the ceiling, I put in additional support specifically for the cables to attach onto when I moved the stairs to their new location.

  With the vertical cables will it be possible for someone to pull them apart creating a gap bigger than 125mm? or will you be able to put enough tension in them?

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## OBBob

Cool lights for the kids!

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## OBBob

Callin' Paddy, come in Paddy...

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## paddyjoy

Hi Bob, 
Thanks for the reminder! It's been 6 months since my last update, haven't got a lot done  :No:  
After installing the back door we had to replace all the floor joists in the back half of the house because the room where different levels lol   
Unfortunately there was no feasible way to save the old ceilings so they had to go also    
Working on the back deck at the moment, not doing anything too fancy with the boards, just clear pine and a simple picture frame.  
We are going to have 3 planter boxes built into various parts of the deck, one at ground level, one against that blueboard wall and then another long one inside the wall on the right of the picture.

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## paddyjoy

Nothing is happening in the top of the house so I have sealed those room of for now  :Doh:

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## OBBob

Welcome back.   :Biggrin:

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## ChocDog

Good job Paddy, looks like you're having fun as well!

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## METRIX

> Nothing is happening in the top of the house so I have sealed those room of for now

  
Paddy, the Sydney Timber show is on in a few weeks, if you are still looking for new stair treads ? 
If you see something you like, I have a contact at a Mill on the North Coast, they will deliver to Sydney for very reasonable price.
Same place I used to source my vanity timber.  https://www.renovateforum.com/f205/t...75/index4.html

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## phild01

> Paddy, the Sydney Timber show is on in a few weeks, if you are still looking for new stair treads ?

  This one?  Timber & Working With Wood | Sydney

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## paddyjoy

> Paddy, the Sydney Timber show is on in a few weeks, if you are still looking for new stair treads ? 
> If you see something you like, I have a contact at a Mill on the North Coast, they will deliver to Sydney for very reasonable price.
> Same place I used to source my vanity timber.  https://www.renovateforum.com/f205/t...75/index4.html

  Thanks for the heads up might try and make a trip out there when it's on, yes I still need to replace the treads, just haven't got around to it yet!

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## ChocDog

Its been a long time b/w posts for you paddyjoy. Hows it all progressing? Would love to see an update!

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## paddyjoy

> Its been a long time b/w posts for you paddyjoy. Hows it all progressing? Would love to see an update!

  Hi all, still alive, so things have been going so slowly here, project has almost ground to a halt due to family/work life and we are living in a semi-permanent construction site. 
Now that spring is coming I'm determined to get some serious visual progress done, starting with rendering the outside of the house so I can take down the scaffolding that has been there since 2014. 
Scaff has become a permanent feature of the landscape, check out the fig/ivy that has taken over.

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## phild01

Good to hear back :2thumbsup:  
How's that privacy window going?

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## paddyjoy

> Good to hear back 
> How's that privacy window going?

  Privacy film is still working well but unfortunately there are some hideous air bubbles that have grown over the years due to dust/debris under the film. 
Obviously the glass with laminated privacy film is the way to go but very expensive. Maybe the price has come down in the last few years.

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## phild01

> Hi all, still alive, so things have been going so slowly here, project has almost ground to a halt due to family/work life and we are living in a semi-permanent construction site. 
> Now that spring is coming I'm determined to get some serious visual progress done, starting with rendering the outside of the house so I can take down the scaffolding that has been there since 2014.

  How's it all going Paddy?

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## Compleat Amateu

Soooooo impressive, key questions, maybe in order of priority:
1. Are you still alive and uninjured?
2. Are you still married to your saint/labourer (mine wouldn't have got past 2014)?
3. Does the COuncil still trust you?
4. And the neighbours?
Great job!

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## paddyjoy

> Soooooo impressive, key questions, maybe in order of priority:
> 1. Are you still alive and uninjured?
> Yes and no
> 2. Are you still married to your saint/labourer (mine wouldn't have got past 2014)?
> Still together but she is keen to sell and run away lol
> 3. Does the COuncil still trust you?
> No sure if they have any records of my reno now that it's been more than 7 years?
> 4. And the neighbours?
> Not really on speaking terms with one side!
> Great job!

  Sorry for the lack of progress, not much has happened in the last 2 years but I'm starting back into it this week, yay! 
Basically what happened was two years ago I came off my push bike in the rain and landed on a kerb. The kerb made contact with my femur first and basically shattered it into 3 pieces, had lots of internal bleeding etc.... 
I had surgery the next day and was making a decent recovery however I broke one of the screws near my knee and had to go back for surgery in april last year to get all the hardware removed. 
I'm feeling pretty good now, not really any pain, just a bit stiff and still weak on that side. 
Pics below. Hope everyone else is keeping well!     
Broken screw

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## turnstiles

Ouch. Hope you're getting around ok now. 
Life has a habit of getting in the way of building!!

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## Moondog55

> Life has a habit of getting in the way of building!!

  And building/rebuilding has a way of interfering with life. 
Better get better soon Paddy as we're all waiting for updates.

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