# Forum Home Renovation Laundry  Which brand of washing machine ?

## igor

Guys, we are looking to upgrade from our 20+ year old General Electric Heavy Duty 7 cycle washing machine, it was an industrial machine in its day and has lasted very well but its time to go, so is there a particular brand we should look at ? We dont really want an over fancy machine, it doesnt need touch panels and LCD displays etc as long as it will last us a while and will do the job. I see some now have no aggitator in the middle, why is this? Is it worth getting a direct drive motor model ? What else should I look for ? It doesnt matter if its on the large size as long as we can select the load size and water level, so mid-large would suit us (floor standing, top loading) 
Sorry if this isnt the right place to ask but this was my first choice. 
Any help would be great.   :2thumbsup:

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## GraemeCook

Good Morning Igor 
I have been friends with the state manager of one of the larger white goods retailers for many years, and I asked him the same question last year.  He gave me an effective life expectancy table for various brands ranging from 2-3 years for unknown asian brands up to 20+ years for high priced German brands.  I posted it on this website so a little searching should be rewarding. 
I also note that you prefer top loading machines - why?   In their testing Choice always comes out strongly in favour of front loading machines, and most commercial machines are now front loading.   Just a thought. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## Black Cat

I can vouch for the efficiency (cleaning, water and power usage) of the front loader. But if you want your load done in anything under an hour, get a top-loader....

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## woodbe

> I can vouch for the efficiency (cleaning, water and power usage) of the front loader. But if you want your load done in anything under an hour, get a top-loader....

  Agree with that. 
We dumped our aged Speed Queen top loader late last year after 21 years. Replaced with a Siemens (rebranded Bosch) front loader. It washes better, uses less water and power, but it does take longer. The old clunker used to take 20 minutes or so, a standard cold water eco/cotton wash in the new machine is 1:30. The spin is amazing - it does some huge rpm and sounds like a jet taking off! Clothes come out a lot drier than the old machine. 
I'd buy it again. This is the bosch version  Clothes Washers Energy Ratings 
woodbe

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## China

As above,plus in Europe top loaders are now banned because of the enegy water issue, also front loaders do much lees damge to your clothes, I would have recomend Maytag however I do not know what the situation is now that they have been purchased by Whirlpool, I personaly have a Meile I can't speak for it's longevity as I have only  owned for three years it has not missed a beat it is without exception the best front loader that I have owned. They are the best company I have ever dealt with in regards to after sales service, and as front loaders go it was not expensive around $1,800

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## woodbe

Miele are good, not doubt about it. I have seen them still in use after 25 years.  
I struck a problem when I was looking to replace our washer in that Miele only make 6.5kg washers - the Bosch/Siemens is 8kg and we use all  of that. Price was another issue - an equivalent spec Miele was about $800 or more premium over the Bosch.  Our Siemens also has a load weighing function that recommends detergent quantity based on the weight and program, I think you can get something similar in a Miele but you have to part with $4k... 
Have to wait 20 years to see if I should have spent the extra.  :Biggrin:  
woodbe.

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## Bedford

We have only had Simpson washing machines, and got 15 years or so out of each, but I think the most important thing these days is to make sure that any appliance has reputable parts and service backing if needed. :Smilie:

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## dazzler

Follow the watch, you are getting sleepy, sleepy, sleepy......you want a front loader....yes, a front loader.......now off you go and get one  :Smilie:

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## nww1969

Wasn't there an ad on tv some time ago about the wife complaining about having to
bend over to get the cloths out of the front end loader and the husband who works 
for a washing machine company designs a top loader with all the efficiency of a front
end loader.  
Still got my kleenmaid by speed queen (American) top loader 20 years.
only needed a new belt recently, now connected to a water tank.

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## igor

> Follow the watch, you are getting sleepy, sleepy, sleepy......you want a front loader....yes, a front loader.......now off you go and get one

  lol we went to one retailer today and one salesperson said top loaders and more efficient, one said they are the same since they now make efficient top loaders and another said top loaders are better ... so go figure. How many laundries are built with the washing machine elevated so you can use the front loader without bending down? Ours is floor sitting so front loaders would be a pain in the rear (and back). I can adapt a shelf space for an elevated front loader but I dont know if its worth it.  
Is there a good site to search for and compare prices?    :2thumbsup:

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## Ashore

I looked at a  few 11 years ago and got a Fisher Paykel , they were the most inovative , the drive motor rotor is an extension of the agitator , so no belts and great speed controle for wash and fast spin , their back up is spot on and parts , (though I havent needed any yet ) are easy to source.
The only problem I ever had it wouldn't pump out , rang service and their tech suggested as it was 6 years old and out of warrenty that I remove cover from pump , bucket water out , tilt machine back 45 deg , front LH corner under machine turn white cap anti clockwise and presto remove tooth pick, shmbo hints at a new one but as this one gets used 2 days out of 3 and has never missed a beat we keep on going on with it  :2thumbsup:

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## GeoffW1

Hi, 
A very well known consumer magazine, which (who??) hates having its name taken in vain, published a big test in Feb 2010. 
They recommended, in that size range: 
Asko Quattro W6362 (fr)  $2299  *#* Fisher & Paykel WH70F60W2 (fr)  $1139 
Miele W3725 Honeycomb Care (fr)  $2299 
Electrolux Time manager EWF1074 (fr)  $899  *#* Fisher & Paykel GW612 (top)  $969 
Miele W1611 (fr)  $1799 
The # models are now discontinued, but the replacements should be about the same they reckon. 
Cheers

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## igor

What do the $2299 models do that the $899 cant?   :2thumbsup:

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## GeoffW1

> What do the $2299 models do that the $899 cant?

  Hi, 
They said the Meile Honeycomb W3725 had *Good points:* 
 Very good dirt removal and water efficiency.
 Gentle/delicates wash.
 Out-of-balance correction.
 Fast wash (half loads only).
 Variable spin speed (max 1300 rpm).
 Time remaining display.
 Autosensor wash.
 Woollens wash.
 Extra rinse & Water plus.
 Short" button reduces time.
 Programmable language.
 Control lock, safety lock.  *Bad points:* 
 Does not have a true cold wash option for normal washing (min 30°C).
 Only OK rinse score. 
and the Electrolux EWF1074 had *Good points:* 
 Very good water efficiency.
 Selectable spin speed (max 1000 rpm).
 Time remaining display.
 Gentle/delicate wash.
 Quick wash  as an option, not a program.
 Out-of-balance correction.
 Extra rinse option.  *Bad points:* 
 Lowest wash temperature for cottons is 30°C.
 Only OK spin score.

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## GraemeCook

> Hi, 
> They said the Meile Honeycomb W3725 had *Good points:* 
>  Very good dirt removal and water efficiency.
>  Gentle/delicates wash.
>  Out-of-balance correction.
>  Fast wash (half loads only).
>  Variable spin speed (max 1300 rpm).
>  Time remaining display.
>  Autosensor wash.
> ...

  
This is one of those rather silly features with Miele.   It has a "water saver" option which means that it only half rinses the detergent out of the clothes after washing.  Just switch the "water saver" off, and it uses a bit more water and then rinses very well. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## woodbe

The spin speed differences are significant unless you hang to dry and are never in a hurry. If you are in a hurry, or your missus routinely puts the washing in the dryer, then paying more for faster spin is well worth it - it will save drying time and power wasted in the dryer. 
The electric clothes dryer is one of the least efficient devices in the house, anything that reduces its power-on time is a godsend in my book. 
woodbe.

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## igor

We use a clothes line, never had a clothes drier, dont use a dish washer either, the power bill is rediculous without these hungry things running ...   :2thumbsup:

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## dazzler

> We use a clothes line, never had a clothes drier, dont use a dish washer either, the power bill is rediculous without these hungry things running ...

  We tried a clothes line down here.  Nice ice sheets when we bring the clothes in in winter time  :Tongue:

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## igor

Yeah I guess being that close to the South Pole has its draw backs ..... joking of course mate ....  :Biggrin:  
Our clothes would freeze if we left them out over night in winter ... so we dont ....   :Wink:

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## woodbe

> I'd have to disagree with that statement, Woody. 
> Our electric clothes dryer is the most effective house dust manufacturer that we have. 
> Run the clothes dryer for half an hour and then spend 2 hours cleaning the dust and lint off the walls and ceiling...............not to mention clogging up the computer cooling fan.  Of course this means CPU heat sink also clogs with dust and lint...............nothing like having the computer just around the corner from the dryer.................

  That's true, until you realise you can get a kit to send the dryer exhaust outside, whereupon it dusts up the garden.  :Biggrin:  
woodbe.

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## charli

Igor,
I have been researching machines for ages for when our old top loader dies...My FAV topic! 
As others have said front loaders save water and energy as they dont have an agitator to turn, they are gentler on clothes and you can actually fit quite a large load as there is no agitator in the way...  
The Miele is the best if you have the cash $1600-$3900 and being German is supposed to last about 20 years.. Aftermarket service is second to none, I know many people with Mieles and they couldnt be happier..Some have cold and hot water connections which make cycles faster and save $$ as the machine doesnt have to heat its own water...Im looking at the W 3831 WPS $2499 as it has cold/hot connectors and buttons rather than digital readouts, plus delay start and time left display .. Washing Machine - W 3831 WPS - Miele Australia 
Asko is another I would consider, it is the only one without a rubber bellow so it wont dry out/go mouldy and need replacing down the track. The higher end models also have hot and cold connections too.. You could get a run out model such as the W 6342 for a great price at the moment ~$1600. Washing Machine W6342 
If money is tight the Bosch is one worth considering. I know a few owners who are happy with these.. I have a friend with a Electrolux and LG front loaders and have nothing but problems.... 
Once you have decided on a model please have a look at www.productreview.com.au for reviews, this site has been great.... 
Hope this helps, when mine dies Im struggling to choose b/w the Asko and the Miele but prob go a Miele becuase of their reputation and aftermarket service.. 
Charli.

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## Boeing777

I've been working for a retailer for 8 years now, and can honestly say the major brand that we have/hear the least amount of problems with is Fisher and Paykel - not only that but if something does go wrong, its usually next business day service. Some of your other major brands I've had customers waiting over a week just for the tech to turn up.  
Avoid the "high efficiency" top loaders, they simply don't do a good enough job at rinsing the detergent out of the clothes. The standard FP top loaders that have an agitator do a great job (MW512 / WA65 / WA75 series). I've got a F&P washer and dryer and neither have missed a beat in 6 years.

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## igor

> The Miele is the best if you have the cash $1600-$3900 and being German is supposed to last about 20 years..

  Thats great but too dear for me, we are in the middle of doing a complete bathroom reno, maybe after we recover from that.   :2thumbsup:  
What makes a washer leave dark spots on your whites? The tub isnt dirty, its as if grease/oil is seeping out of somewhere into the wash. It also leaves detergent stains on darks, so it doesnt appear to be rinsing properly either. These are our reasons for looking for a new machine.    :Wink:

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## woodbe

> What makes a washer leave dark spots on your whites? The tub isnt dirty, its as if grease/oil is seeping out of somewhere into the wash. It also leaves detergent stains on darks, so it doesnt appear to be risning properly either. These are our reasons for looking for a new machine.

  The oil will likely be due to a seal in the gearbox or somewhere dying and the oil finding it's way into the bowl - check the seals on the impeller shaft. 
The detergent stains and bad rinsing are probably due to the machine suffering from clogged arteries. Probably needs a good take-down and clean out, maybe some new pipes. We had this problem on our old machine, and I spent ages stripping it down and flushing years of gunk out of the system. The basic message is that we are probably using too much powder. 
Whether this is worth it on an old machine depends on you willingness to get your hands dirty and your budget - you may find its past saving when you open it up, but a good repairman usually has a shedfull of old machines from which to rat parts... the real problem is that the machine won't be worth the cost of his labour to fix it. 
woodbe.

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## Guv

> How many laundries are built with the washing machine elevated so you can use the front loader without bending down? Ours is floor sitting so front loaders would be a pain in the rear (and back). I can adapt a shelf space for an elevated front loader but I dont know if its worth it.

  We went with a Miele front loader but at ~94kg it was staying firmly on the floor!  
The matching dryer wasn't much better at ~56kg... imagine, it replaced an old Simpson dryer I had mounted on the wall without help. The new one needed two of us just to get it on top of the washing machine! :Yikes2:  
So, if you do go the front loader route, check the weight out before planning your wall mounting options!!!  :2thumbsup:

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## GraemeCook

> If money is tight the Bosch is one worth considering. I know a few owners who are happy with these..

  Agree with your analysis, charli. 
With Bosch there is German made Bosch which is good,  and there is Asian made Bosch which is not so good.  Watch the labels. 
With driers, Miele actually has a model that incorporates a  heat pump - that model is far more effecient than their other models (or their competitors). 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## igor

> I've been working for a retailer for 8 years now, and can honestly say the major brand that we have/hear the least amount of problems with is Fisher and Paykel - not only that but if something does go wrong, its usually next business day service. Some of your other major brands I've had customers waiting over a week just for the tech to turn up.

  Does that mean that to some extent all brands have some percentage of warranty claims? That they all get some returns, just some more than others.   :2thumbsup:

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## mattwilliams78

We bought an electrolux EWF1083 about 8-10months ago. Seems to be going fine, I'm not the best husband as I honestly don't go near it much  :Smilie:   
My wife was a die-hard top loader fan (and her mum and sisters) but being an engineer with a water/energy efficiency bent when her old 10 year old hoover machine broke I spent alot of time convincing her that we had to have a front loader instead. So for about $450 after the $150 rebate from Sydney Water (its 4.5 Star water rated) we got the Electrolux. (we got a discount through my employer but I reckon you could easily get one for about $600). 
My wife uses the cold wash only and if you set it to light soiled (she washes most of our clothes after just one wear!) you can turn down the cycle to 55 mins. Its an 8kg load. Great spin. She uses it at least once every couple of days and on the weekend often twice in a day. One of her arguements for the top loader was that you can always add something if you forget but she seems to have gotten past this now and there is a 5min grace period where you can pause the machine and add something if you need to. The only annoying thing about it is the beeping at the end of the cycle to tell you its finished - I call it the guilt alarm because it makes me think "should I go out and get the washing out and hang it up for her?" and it goes on a bit too long for me to ignore. I feel a bit sorry for the neighbours. 
The best thing ever? I heard her telling her friends "don't tell Matt but I love the front loader, its so much better than the top loader" haha

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## igor

If a front loader runs so much longer than a top loader then doesnt that mean its going to be using more electricity?   :2thumbsup:

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## woodbe

> If a front loader runs so much longer than a top loader then doesnt that mean its going to be using more electricity?

   Energy Labelling - Selecting an efficient appliance 
Yes and no  :Smilie:  
Depends on how you use it more than anything else. 
woodbe.

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## charli

The machines should have water and energy ratings on them... Top loaders traditionally use more water and electricity.....less electricity as no agitator to turn but can use more to heat up warm water if they only have a cold water connection if you choose a warm water wash. 
I have to disagree with Fisher and Paykel being a great brand, we are on our second F&P top loader (MW512) and the first took a week to have a tech out to tell us board had fried.... As far as the clean goes they leave white scum marks on all our clothes, we use pre diluted liquid on a warm wash, have tried dissolving powders, cleaned machine, but thats a while other thread..... The F&P tech told us they were made to last about 8 years....

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## Boeing777

> Does that mean that to some extent all brands have some percentage of warranty claims? That they all get some returns, just some more than others.

  No brand is immune to failure, but when you look at the amount of problems/returns we hear about, vs the amount we sell F&P would easily be the best...Samsung would probably be the worst (We don't sell LG, but if we did, I'd expect it to be the worst from what I hear in the industry). As for the top end brands, Asko is probably the best in terms of reliability for us. Only problem is you can't find discounted prices on them anymore!    

> As far as the clean goes they leave white scum marks on all our clothes, we use pre diluted liquid on a warm wash, have tried dissolving powders, cleaned machine, but thats a while other thread

  Just out of curiosity charli, when you tried the powder were you putting it on top of the clothes, or down the chute in the agitator (under the fabric softener cup) ? Normally this problem occurs when people sprinkle the powder directly on top of their clothes before the load like in older machines.

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## charli

> No brand is immune to failure, but when you look at the amount of problems/returns we hear about, vs the amount we sell F&P would easily be the best...Samsung would probably be the worst (We don't sell LG, but if we did, I'd expect it to be the worst from what I hear in the industry). As for the top end brands, Asko is probably the best in terms of reliability for us. Only problem is you can't find discounted prices on them anymore!    
> Just out of curiosity charli, when you tried the powder were you putting it on top of the clothes, or down the chute in the agitator (under the fabric softener cup) ? Normally this problem occurs when people sprinkle the powder directly on top of their clothes before the load like in older machines.

  No putting it down the centre not on the clothes.... damn annoying.. :Rolleyes:

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## woodbe

We had that, even when using liquid detergent. 
I put it down to long term deposits of white gunk from the washing powder and gave the thing the big clean. It got better, but we were never able to completely cure it. 
woodbe.

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## igor

As I mentioned we get that too, its one of our biggest problems (along with the grease spots). Im surprised other people have this issue too with new machines, does it occur more with top loaders? Do front loaders do it too? Its bad when you take a dark queen size sheet out of the washing machine and it looks worse than when it went in.   :2thumbsup:

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## woodbe

igor, we only had it with our 20 year old clunker. I think it is a buildup over many years of powder residue. Washing powder has a lot of salt in it. 
Never heard of it in a front loader, but it must be possible. 
woodbe.

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## igor

> I have to disagree with Fisher and Paykel being a great brand, we are on our second F&P top loader (MW512) and the first took a week to have a tech out to tell us board had fried.... As far as the clean goes *they leave white scum marks on all our clothes*, we use pre diluted liquid on a warm wash, have tried dissolving powders, cleaned machine, but thats a while other thread..... The F&P tech told us they were made to last about 8 years....

  Charli here appears to have the same problem with his newer machine too.   :2thumbsup:

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## charli

> Charli here appears to have the same problem with his newer machine too.

  No this problem is with both my old F&P top loader and my current F&P top loader which is 6 years old, dont have a new one, but Im not far off it  :Biggrin:

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## igor

OK, 6 years isnt old really, I guess it could still be build up in the pipes.   :2thumbsup:

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## igor

> Once you have decided on a model please have a look at www.productreview.com.au for reviews, this site has been great.... 
> Hope this helps, when mine dies Im struggling to choose b/w the Asko and the Miele but prob go a Miele becuase of their reputation and aftermarket service.. 
> Charli.

  Mate, looking at those reviews there seems to be prolems with just about every brand and model, no one seems happy and all have something to complain abaout. Whats worse is alot of the complaints are the exact ones we have with our 20+ year old machine, I really hope we dont go out and buy a machine to gain nothing in the end ....   :Annoyed:    

> F&P would easily be the best.

  A few unhappy owners here mate:  http://www.productreview.com.au/cate...S&manf_id=1058 
But same goes for most brands as I was saying above.

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## charli

Igor,
I know what you mean, every brand has an issue or some sort, I still find it good to have a look at ...  
Good luck with whatever you choose.. :2thumbsup:

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## igor

Honestly it does have me worried now, so many unhappy consumers but it might also be a case of happy owners dont go out to look for somewhere to voice their opinion as unhappy owners would.   :Wink:

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## woodbe

> Mate, looking at those reviews there seems to be prolems with just about every brand and model, no one seems happy and all have something to complain abaout. Whats worse is alot of the complaints are the exact ones we have with our 20+ year old machine, I really hope we dont go out and buy a machine to gain nothing in the end ....

  Looks like our choice has missed out on the negative reviews: Siemens WM16S740AU 8 reviews, all 5 stars... The only 'con' seems to be the manual could be better. 
woodbe.

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## igor

lol and maybe the price, what was that worth ? 
Why do the front loader tubs look so small inside?   :Confused:

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## woodbe

> lol and maybe the price, what was that worth ? 
> Why do the front loader tubs look so small inside?

  Over $2k, I think it was $2200. Government gave us a couple of hundred back for buying an efficient appliance. Jolly nice of them too.  :Smilie:  
The tubs look smaller compared to top loaders because they _are_ smaller. Even machines of the same load rating have smaller tubs on the front loaders.  
woodbe.

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## charli

The tubs are smaller as they dont have to fit an agitator in....

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## igor

True, but the lost room looks much greater than the size of an aggitator.   :2thumbsup:

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## charli

Id have to agree, I was looking at some front loaders at Hardley Normal yesterday and couldnt believe how your supposed to fit all the clothes in through such a small hole at the front in comparison to a top loader...  :Confused:

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## igor

We are probably going to try the Simpson 9.0kg as HN has them on special, so much mixed feedback on them though , its a worry ....   :Confused:

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## Bedford

Don't mean to make it harder for you, but our family has 3 Simpson EZIset 950's and are all happy with them, They are only 2 years old, but our one is only the third Simpson WM we've had in about 35 years. :Smilie:

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## brisrab

> Charli here appears to have the same problem with his newer machine too.

   I fix washing machines for a living and can give you the following advice:
Don't go for a water saving top loading machine UNLESS water saving is your priority. They do leave some residues on your clothes, but using the latest High Effeciency detergents does negate this alot.
On f & P MW512 The general issue of white marks on dark clothes on these machines is that they are usually over dosed with detergent. On the detergent box they might say to use one scoop of detergent. Is this for a 5, 6,7,8 or 9 kg machine. Reduce your dose significantly and you will be fine, as well as saving money!
There is never a build up in the pipes causing dark spots, it is more likely that you have build up of crap around then tank, the lip seal, shaft/spin tub join. By doing a Bowl clean will generally break down and remove this (front loaders included...they also build up crap.)
My preferred machine is the F & P 7.5 kg standard agitator type machine, I used to be a Hoover fan but they changed the drive system and are now gone.

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## igor

re: bowl clean 
I cleaned everywhere I could see and didnt get anything dirty from it, the spots my machine generates are soaked in spots, like a drop of dark oil hit the clothing item and soaked in.   :Confused:  
Im not trying to save water, just clean our clothes well.   :2thumbsup:

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## brisrab

Is this on your 20 year old GE?

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## Ashore

To get rid of the problems with soap build up use white vinegar instead of fabric softener  :2thumbsup:

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## Uncle Bob

> Why do the front loader tubs look so small inside?

  That would be the *T*ime *A*nd *R*elative *D*imension *I*n *S*pace effect  :Wink:  
Last year I brought a new F'ing P. I can't tell what the model number is offhand, but it's the biggest bugger without an agitator. It's bloody good on water consumption, quiet and takes a big load. The only cons I have found so far is the washing is always very crumbled and there's no manual advance of a cycle.

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## igor

> That would be the *T*ime *A*nd *R*elative *D*imension *I*n *S*pace effect 
> .

  Wasnt that the other way around though? Small on the outside and huge on the inside?  :Eek:  
Brisrab - yes the oil-like spots are on the old girl, shes still going but whites look worse after a wash, and darks too thanks to the scum marks .....   :No:

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## brisrab

A Bowl Clean is achieved by doing continuous washes with the same fill of hot water as follows:
Select Hot water, High water level, the longest wash cycle...mostly Heavy duty, select soak. add 2 litres (1 bottle) Cleaning vinegar..it's clear (white) and available in most supermarkets in either cleaning isle or vinegar isle, regular dose of Phosphated detergent.
Fill machine with Hot water, it will agitate until it gets to first rinse and stop (because soak is selected). When it gets to here restart the wash cycle with the same settings and using the same water. When it gets to first rinse this time stop the machine and allow to soak for 2-4 hours.DO NOT LET WATER GO COLD. :No: 
After this restart machine using same settings. After it gets to first rinse again restart machine only this time remove the soak selection and the machine will do a complete cycle. You may see plenty of Greeblies in the water indicating it has done the job.
Do another high water level cold wash to flush the machine...job done.
Every wash after this use a small amount of cleaning vinegar in your softener dispenser to maintain a clean environment in your machine.
If you have still got dirt spots on your garments after this...get a new machine!

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## igor

brisrab - can you tell me what you think of the Simpson SWT902SA? Good points? Bad points?   :2thumbsup:

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## munro

For one thing, the expensive brands last longer and are more reliable.  As for the "bending over" thing,  my back is now in its mid fifties and I have not been too kind to it.  Despite this, my front loader is no problem for me.  In fact clothes are more accessible than the reaching into the depths of a top loader.  I know people who have purchased devices like a draw unit which goes underneath their machine to raise it up, and doubles a great storage space, but it is not something I feel any need for.

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## danielhobby

i purchased a simpson eziset 800,8 kg washer about four years ago.paid $850 dollars new saw them available on super special last week for $500 ish.im aboilermaker(does allwork clothes and o/alls) and a single dad of four kids and they wear HEAPS of changes!!!!!! and this machine has not missed abeat and it is run everyday.no whistles or band playing ,it just washes and does it well,and all the water goes on the garden and lawns anyway so what does it really matter,cheers danny

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## danielhobby

and i like being able to lift the lid and throw in the odd sock or the shirt that needs to be worn in the morning,try that with a front loader :Yikes2: .danny

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## Black Cat

> Cleaning vinegar..it's clear (white) and available in most supermarkets in either cleaning isle or vinegar isle, regular dose of Phosphated detergent.

  Goodness, the effectiveness of clever marketting!  :Shock:   Bog standard white vinegar, available in 2 litre bottles may be a cheaper option - that's all the specially labelled stuff is!!! :2thumbsup:

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## igor

Thanks Danny, we did find a 9.0kg Simpson EziSensor at HN for $699, they told us it was a store special and we had until the end of the month so no hurry. Anyway, we did some research, checked prices and looked for opinions (such as here) then went to buy it on the second last day and "sorry they are sold out ..." 
It looks like Seconds World have some good prices so we might head there.   :2thumbsup:

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## Hkdave68

> Miele are good, not doubt about it. I have seen them still in use after 25 years.  
> I struck a problem when I was looking to replace our washer in that Miele only make 6.5kg washers - the Bosch/Siemens is 8kg and we use all  of that. Price was another issue - an equivalent spec Miele was about $800 or more premium over the Bosch.  Our Siemens also has a load weighing function that recommends detergent quantity based on the weight and program, I think you can get something similar in a Miele but you have to part with $4k... 
> Have to wait 20 years to see if I should have spent the extra.  
> woodbe.

   I have seen simpson last 25+ years also, it doesn't mean that "todays" machines will still last as long. Expect to pay a lot to fix the expensive brands.

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## oceanaussi

A Front Loader is the only way to go IMO.  :Blush7:  Coming from Europe myself, I've never even seen a top loader untilI moved to Australia. I was a student and had hardly any money but I had a front loader. I have successfully avoided usage of a toploader my entire life. 
The German machines are the best. My Grandma had her Bosch for over 20 years. I know they're pricier but they're better!  :Tongue:  I just purchased this one myself:   
Just a warning: the basic German washing machines are actually not totally made in Germany.The assembly is done in Asia. My Miele was assembled and tested in Germany and costs a few $ more. But it also has a short cycle for people who can't wait to get their washing.

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## METRIX

We bought a top line Front Load ASKO [stainless Steel Exterior] in 1990, yesterday when I looked in the laundry it was still there, doing it's job, and has never had a service EVER. 
It is a fancy electronic button type, and has a 1600rpm spin, the cheaper Front Loaders still don't get to this speed 20 years later !!. 
Top Loaders use more electricity / water / detergent are noisy and they clean your clothes by rubbing them together, front loaders wash by dumping water onto the clothes, hence we never get fuzzy socks,  destroyed T Shirts or any of the nasty things top loaders do to your  clothes. 
Front Loaders are almost totally silent during washing cycle [except when the spin comes on, like said above they can sound like a jet plane taking off. 
I can highly recommend the ASKO brand [ours was made in Sweden] not sure if they still are, it had hot and cold connection, and had a genuine COLD only cycle, or up to 95c if you need to cook a chook at the same time ? 
Overall the European machines, ASKO, Bosch, Siemens, Miele leave any top loader for dead, you get what you pay for in a washing machine, problem is, with the release of so many Chinese / Korean manufacturers, now a lot of the traditional European models have started to ship manufacturing for entry level models to Asia, so im sure the reliability of these entry level machine will start to suffer. 
Once you have had a front loader you will never go back to a top loader.

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## unexpert

Another chiming in to say get a front loader. I was going to tell you all about our new LG washer, then I did the math and realized its been going 10 years! No service, no problems, 2 moves.  You don't have to spend heaps.

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## plum

Paid 1.7k for our Asko front loader 3 years ago, had 2 service calls, 1 in warranty, 1 just out , motor burnt out. They wanted nearly 500 to repair, but after cracking the you no whats, they came to the party and saw the funny side of it. Jury is still out though on the newer Asko's.

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## shauck

We bought a Bosch 7.5kg front loader the other day. Paid $900.00 for it. Pretty good price, I think. Our F&P 5.5kg top loader finally died (computer board probably). It's about 12 years old, so had a good innings.  
This is our first front loader and I was a bit dubious about it all. Hoping it was a good choice, according to all the research I did, it "should" be.  
Any tips from those who have one of these?  
We tend to do cold wash by the way so any consensus on that? My partner worries about hot wash shrinking clothes so if there's a temp that doesn't cause this problem, i'd be considering trying it or is cold wash believed to be good? 
Cheers, Su.

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## AlphaBetty

I have one of the new Asko front loaders and its great! Clothes come out so dry, the load can be opened if you have forgotten that one sock. It does sound like a jet is revving in your laundry if its too full a load but i have yet to have any complain about clothes coming out not properly cleaned. They arent cheap but i think sometimes you just have to splurge.

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## anawanahuanana

> We bought a Bosch 7.5kg front loader the other day. Paid $900.00 for it. Pretty good price, I think. Our F&P 5.5kg top loader finally died (computer board probably). It's about 12 years old, so had a good innings.  
> This is our first front loader and I was a bit dubious about it all. Hoping it was a good choice, according to all the research I did, it "should" be.  
> Any tips from those who have one of these?  
> We tend to do cold wash by the way so any consensus on that? My partner worries about hot wash shrinking clothes so if there's a temp that doesn't cause this problem, i'd be considering trying it or is cold wash believed to be good? 
> Cheers, Su.

  I wash everything in our front loader, even stuff that says do not machine wash, on a 40 degree cycle and nothing has ever shrunk. Only stuff like dog towels, bedding etc gets done at a higher temp. I also put pretty much everything in the dryer too, but only ever on half heat and have never shrunk anything in there either. I think some clothes manufacturers are a bit conservative with their care instructions! I figure if you're going to do a wash with cold water you might as well take the classic "Indian" approach and go beat it on a rock in the river........ 
By the way, I've only used a top loader a few times in my life (coming from a land where washing machines live in the kitchen next to the dishwasher) and almost every time I've had an item of clothing damaged or not washed properly. Frankly, I think they are hopeless and outdated. Just my opinion of course........ :Wink:

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## shauck

I spent a couple of hours yesterday, setting up the machine and reading through the manual, etc. It also required a run without any clothes in it so I'm glad I didn't wait till Saturday (washing day) to find this out. It's a fair bit to take in but I think i'll get the hang of it. We usually do all the washing in one go and take it to the driers but I forsee doing a load every couple of days in the Summer and so better build a washing line soon.

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## Smurf

I just have a basic F&P top loader. It's 5 or 5.5 kg I think. It's not fancy but the price was cheap and it does the job.  
It's fussy about the load being balanced properly however, and that is the only thing I don't like about it. Other than that though it's running nicely and I've had it close to 5 years. My clothes get quite dirty due to work, and I normally wash in warm water (always a full load). Occasionally I use hot if there's any clothes covered in oil etc. Everything comes clean, even oily work clothes come out clean.  
As for the dryer, it came with a duct which I permanently installed to take the damp air etc straight outside. I use it regularly with no problems thus far. As for "do not tumble dry" warnings on clothes, I ignore them completely and have never had a problem with anything shrinking, not even woolen jumpers etc. I use the full heat setting, with the dryness level set half way. 
No prizes for guessing that I'm male  :Biggrin: , but I honestly don't get it when I hear stories about the amount of time some people seem to spend on laundry. 
1. Wait until basket of clothes is full. 
2. Take clothes out of basket and put them in washing machine. The only reason to separate anything is if there are oily work clothes (need hot water) any any printed T-shirts or woolen jumpers (which don't like hot water). Other than that, under normal circumstances just put everything in the one load. 
3. Take clothes out of machine, throwing all light weight items (shirts, socks etc) in the dryer. Put all heavy items (eg jeans, towels) in washing basket. Once dryer is finished, empty it and put the heavy items in for the next load. Remember to clean the filter after each load, as per the instructions which come with the dryer. 
All this can't possibly take longer than 10 minutes of actual work (seriously). As for separating white things from coloured clothes, what's the point in that? A lot of people seem to do it, but at the age of 35 I've thus far failed to find an actual problem with mixing them all together. (And yes, I do all the washing). 
Only exception to the above is anything new which hasn't been washed previously. Do such things separately in case some of the dye comes out. It's not an issue after the first wash however.

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## shauck

Did the washing yesterday and was very impressed with the machine. It was super quiet, even on spin cycle. This means I can start the washing on a Sat morning while partner is still dozing.  
I agree Smurf, it's a pretty simple thing to do the washing and doesn't take much time. My partner would shoot me if I didn't separate lights and darks tho. I never used to bother when I was single but anyway... 
We don't have a dryer so it's down to the laundromat for that which means you are tied to the process until it's all done. Summer will be different. 
One thing, this machine (Bosch 7.5kg) is supposed to know the weight of a load and adjust accordingly but I can't work out how to know if I'm putting enough or too much in the machine before choosing the cycle? I suppose i could borrow some bathroom scales to get an idea. Is there a button to press that tells me this info?

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## barney118

something must be in the air, my washing mach is on the outer too, so thanks for the light reading so far and making it easier to narrow down some choices. Our old top loader whirlpool usa lid switch is gone, I replaced the pump 12mths ago, havent payed attention to its water/elec consumption, and agree with what said to date, appears top is on the way out and all have had bad experiences one way or another. 
To date water is cheap, electricity is not, with 3 kids the washer gets a flogging, only ever washed in cold, i see some advantages in front with the centrifugal force being better for washing/drying? wouldnt that use more electricity to turn a horizontal wash than top loader? and more electricity also if cycle time longer?

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## barney118

> something must be in the air, my washing mach is on the outer too, so thanks for the light reading so far and making it easier to narrow down some choices. Our old top loader whirlpool usa lid switch is gone, I replaced the pump 12mths ago, havent payed attention to its water/elec consumption, and agree with what said to date, appears top is on the way out and all have had bad experiences one way or another. 
> To date water is cheap, electricity is not, with 3 kids the washer gets a flogging, only ever washed in cold, i see some advantages in front with the centrifugal force being better for washing/drying? wouldnt that use more electricity to turn a horizontal wash than top loader? and more electricity also if cycle time longer?

  on another note, how would this change the laundry design? would you have a front loader built in ontop of the bench and cupboards under?

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## shauck

> on another note, how would this change the laundry design? would you have a front loader built in ontop of the bench and cupboards under?

  I just finished a bathroom and laundry reno. I put built in cupboards under a full width bench with a space for front loading washing machine. Power point behind WM, taps in sink cupboard and waste directly to sink both through side of cupboard. Works great and is tidy. I'll be back there today to work on other stuff and I'll take a picture.  
I did have a washing machine service/repair guy out a couple of weeks ago to refit a slipped belt on the (brand new) WM. He, as an aside, told me that when machine is not in use, you should leave the door and the soap dispenser tray ajar. Something to do with protecting something or other from mould or something (Sorry bit vague). This made me rethink my idea of (future plans for) euro style laundry where everything is behind sliding or folding doors. It would mean a deeper bench, with the machine set back further. Hmmm.

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## barney118

Shauck a pic would help heaps, what size bench would you put in differently. My laundry has all the pipes in the slab ( not poured yet) so I am trying to get my head around taps, waste to sink, I am planning a sink, now it's what type? Etc etc, a redesign of the redesign.  
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

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## shauck

> Shauck a pic would help heaps, what size bench would you put in differently. My laundry has all the pipes in the slab ( not poured yet) so I am trying to get my head around taps, waste to sink, I am planning a sink, now it's what type? Etc etc, a redesign of the redesign.  
> Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

  
Pic will be here tomorrow morning.  :Biggrin:  
With the bench size, it's not necessarily going to have to be bigger if that's a problem (premade stuff being of certain depth) but the sliding doors would have to installed to give more clearance to the slightly open WM door. I don't know, maybe 100mm or so?  I might just build it like a built in cupboard/tiny room, plaster and studs, then a double sliding rail and doors hanging inside the opening. Joinery stuff/hardware is too expensive and this would be fine for me to do.  
Like this,which hasn't had rails/doors fitted....yet....          
The sink we installed (plumber mate, not me personally), was a cheapy bunnings type stainless steel and the fittings (waste) were pretty much all there for this type of use. I'll show you in pics. It would be easy to make up something similar.  
I think, from reading elsewhere, get the flexible pipe entering the waste pipe pretty high up in the side of sink cabinet (which we did) so it's well above the drain. We shoved the flexible WM hose well down into the pipe. Some have complained of backflow (suds and water from drain cycle) problems up into the sink but this set up hasn't had that problem. The waste in this case goes out the back wall which is all the difference with your waste. Anyway, pics will show it all. V. soon....

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## shauck

The pics, as promised. Nothing flash by the way. All bunnies stuff.

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## barney118

Shauck which bosch did you go for, the Missus is looking at the Electrolux mention earlier, it appears you pay more for a higher rpm spin on the Mach.     
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

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## shauck

We bought the Bosch WAE24462AU 7.5 kg  
I'd say it works pretty good, is super quiet, even on the spin cycle (which leaves clothes well spun). I reckon I could do a load while Tanya was still asleep on a Sat morning and not wake her (small house). It has a lot of preset programs which you can change settings of, if you want, such as RPM, temperature. It has some pretty long cycles but possible to pick shorter ones too, even for the full load (7.5kg) and changing settings like lowering temp may shave a few minutes off the cycles. 1200RPM is the fastest spin cycle. It's cold water connection only and it heats it's own water. I haven't used warm/hot water in a machine since I was a kid. The instruction manual is a mini-novel and not good for poor memory/attention span. Hands on experience and referring back to the manual (so keep it handy) gets you through the teething stage pretty well. Time will tell if it was worth it. Our F&P 5kg top loader was about 12 years old and they're a pretty cheap machine these days. The Bosch will have to do at least that to please.

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## barney118

well its a hard choice, narrowed it down at bit, firstly top loaders are out double if not triple electricity. I have based my decision on electric use, water use and spin rpm, seem to be the difference in machines. I am sure they all have issues and nothing is certain with reliability, warranties seem to be standard 2yrs, some having 8yrs for motor. This is what it looks like from an internet website of the info.
Funny enough after visiting a couple of stores and seeing the machines in person, ( I am going for a model 7.5kg and above) I was impressed with the panasonic, even to 10kg model had the same dimensions as the 8kg. 
The missus was keen on the Electrolux but when you do the math based on the numbers given you will pay approx $40 yr in elec for something rated at 276 vs 446 you will pay $400 more over 10yrs so you factor this into the cheap price you are in the $1k territory.
After all this, I think I am going to go with this one: 
at $1299 I think its the best value for $ with a 3yr warranty and direct drive, it looks a bit flash too, with a spin of 1600 rpm. I still need to have another look at the panasonic at $150 cheaper but 1400rpm.

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## JB1

I recently purchased a whirlpool 10kg sports front loader. $1,200. 
Made in Germany, good reviews all round. 
'Only' 1200rpm, but it's a great machine. Feels very solid. 
Only downside is it is a very big machine!  
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

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## barney118

what comes to mind is these mach only have cold inlet. Has anyone confirmed the elec usage on the tags? the one I am looking at suggests 210 kwh/yr ~$50 to run sounds a bit cheap, given its based on 40 deg wash using elec to heat the water.
Given I am going through a laundry design, I suppose you install a hot water inlet? I noticed Shauck with your design if you sold would a buyer be put off if they had a top loader and have to modify your bench? My thoughts are do you design your laundry to accommodate both?

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## shauck

> Given I am going through a laundry design, I suppose you install a hot  water inlet?

  We installed hot and cold.    

> I noticed Shauck with your design if you sold would a buyer be put off if they had a top loader and have to modify your bench? My thoughts are do you design your laundry to accommodate both?

  They might be but front loaders seem more the norm these days. Could always sell the house with machine thrown in.

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## barney118

on my calcs, the mach i am looking at uses 1.8 kw assume 1 hr wash = 236/1.8 = 123 washes a yr.

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## barney118

Just to let you know, I ended up getting the Hoover 8kg, $1299, they are fixed price where ever you buy them, I was considering the Asko but they only make a 7kg, it certainly winds up in the spin at 1600rpm, but the spin cycle is quite short. The 1600 spin is only on the cotton cycle so you can get a false impression if that is part of your criteria on getting one. In the end my criteria was bent on the electricity rating, and this one is 235 yr which is good. I was contemplating on the panasonic nut couldn't bring myself to support the country of origin.

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## shauck

I noticed, with our Bosch, the temperature and spin cycle are adjustable. I wonder if it's ok to up the spin speed when using a programmed cycle that has a lower pre-set spin.

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## Hkdave68

> I just finished a bathroom and laundry reno. I put built in cupboards under a full width bench with a space for front loading washing machine. Power point behind WM, taps in sink cupboard and waste directly to sink both through side of cupboard. Works great and is tidy. I'll be back there today to work on other stuff and I'll take a picture.  
> I did have a washing machine service/repair guy out a couple of weeks ago to refit a slipped belt on the (brand new) WM. He, as an aside, told me that when machine is not in use, you should leave the door and the soap dispenser tray ajar. Something to do with protecting something or other from mould or something (Sorry bit vague). This made me rethink my idea of (future plans for) euro style laundry where everything is behind sliding or folding doors. It would mean a deeper bench, with the machine set back further. Hmmm.

  
I have been fixing appliances for over 20 years now and I hate it when sparkys fit  power points behind washers/dishwashers/dryers etc. It often means disconnecting hoses to unplug things before servicing, which means emptying out cupboards full of junk, which means owners see dirt, which means they want to sweep and mop,which means more labour costs. Also if you need to turn something off in an emergency you can't. 
Dave

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## HarperLee

I personally don't think there is a choice is in this. I would only buy Miele. The first washing machine and dryer I bought were Miele. Very, very expensive when I bought them because there was only one stockist in Melbourne. This was 29 years ago. The washing machine is still going strong. Have had only two reasons to call for a service guy and both related to shifting - and reconnecting of hoses post shift. Not a problem with the machine. They are literally built from tank metal. If you saw my washing machine you may think it's about 8 years old, not 29 years! 
I had to replace the dryer about 8 years ago. My fault as I used the dryer and left the huge, wooden bifold door for the pocket laundry (yes, door disproportionate in appearance with the pocket laundry style). I unintentionally blew up the motor because I wasn't allowing enough air circulation.
You pay more for Miele - but you really do get what you pay for. And, generally they are leaders in washing technology. If you want something that lasts - this is it (and my advice, don't go for the cheapest in the Miele range).
If you do consider Bosch - check where it is made. Only the top end of their products are now made in Germany, the rest in Turkey, Thailand, etc - doesn't mean they aren't good. However, if you look at the back, the fittings you can tell the difference, cheaper plastic, etc.
Hope this assists.  :Biggrin:

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