# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  Building code re handrails?

## Outdamnspot!

Trust me I've googled...Can't find anything from the code online that states a defined size for handrails. Dimension that is. Everything on heights,spacings, etc. etc.

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## stevoh741

You could start here at timber qld website. this link takes you to the online shop:  https://www.timberqueensland.com.au/...ult.aspx?cat=3  then they have a publication called Timber Stairs, Balustrades and Handrails for $20. Or you could try Alan Stains decks and Pergolas book (same webpage) $28. I'm pretty sure there is a section there on balustrades etc that will give you what your after.

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## Stan 101

okay, consider yourself trusted.  :Smilie:

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## Pulse

This is what you need. 
May be worth adding the link to the span tables section. 
Cheers
Pulse

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## Outdamnspot!

> You could start here at timber qld website. this link takes you to the online shop:  https://www.timberqueensland.com.au/...ult.aspx?cat=3  then they have a publication called Timber Stairs, Balustrades and Handrails for $20. Or you could try Alan Stains decks and Pergolas book (same webpage) $28. I'm pretty sure there is a section there on balustrades etc that will give you what your after.

  Thanks. 
Meanwhile I've been chasing down the usual internet black holes, this time with Australian Design Standards, where it seems handrails can only be round with a minimum diameter of 40mm but usually of 50mm. I don't how or where these 'standards' are applied, but I see glass balustrades without any handrail, I see timber handrails of 70x45 or 100x45...!!?

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## Bloss

As the technical note Pulse gave the link to says, the BCA is about structural integrity and safety not aesthetics. It constrains some things that also affect safety, for example by defining minimum heights, minimum gaps etc, but round,  square, or no visible rail (as in a frameless glass balustrade) are not defined unless that facet of the structure also has a safety or strength role.

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## ringtail

What *exactly* do you want to know. I'll look it up for you. But I'm not going to type out a whole chapter from the BCA so be as specific as you can.

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## Outdamnspot!

> As the technical note Pulse gave the link to says the BCA is about structural integrity and safety not aesthetics. It constrains some things that also affect safety, for example by defining minimum heights, minimum gaps etc, but round,  square, or no visible rail (as in a frameless glass balustrade) are not defined unless that facet of the structure also has a safety or strength role.

  So, if I do my steel handrails out of flat bar with hardwood fixed on top but it complies with the height and strength requirements of the local authorities then that's ok?

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## Outdamnspot!

> What *exactly* do you want to know. I'll look it up for you. But I'm not going to type out a whole chapter from the BCA so be as specific as you can.

  Bloss, it seems, has straightened me out over the difference between the local authorities re. Building Codes and Australian Design Standards. I've done handrails before but I was asked to install some in the entrance stairs of a block of units, 9 treads, and was concerned about the actual rail itself. I was inclined to make it as I described to Bloss which would fit with the existing rails but I can understand why 50mm round in stainless will feel more comfortable.

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## nww1969

> Bloss, it seems, has straightened me out over the difference between the local authorities re. Building Codes and Australian Design Standards. I've done handrails before but I was asked to install some in the entrance stairs of a block of units, 9 treads, and was concerned about the actual rail itself. I was inclined to make it as I described to Bloss which would fit with the existing rails but I can understand why 50mm round in stainless will feel more comfortable.

  Where are you getting your Stainless from.
Have to make one up myself soon.
Thanks.

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## Outdamnspot!

You're on the central coast? Then Edcon in Brookvale but there are a number of suppliers there. Are you doing the welding? If not then maybe look at one of the pre-fab systems otherwise you'll need accurate drawing and templates to take to a fabricator, or it's a measure and quote.

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## Bloss

> Bloss, it seems, has straightened me out over the difference between the local authorities re. Building Codes and Australian Design Standards.

  Better explain it to me then  :Redface:   :Wink:  the local authorities are supposed to be ensuring compliance with the national standards, but as with nearly all compliance regimes the enforcers on the ground can bring some weird and wonderful interpretations into the game. Arguing the toss with officialdom is always a tricky area and often even worse when you are right and they wrong - and depending upon how you handle it it is easy to win the battle and lose the war (or at least have a few more battles put in your way). Welcome to bureaucracy! Have to say I haven't seen all that much of that, but once can be too much! 
The difficulty with much of these 'interpretations' commonly arises when there is innovation involved with new design, new material or a new use of an old material. This is not new - my Dah built his new residence in country NSW in the mid '50s and used a number of what were then new technologies or new to the residential sector - for example a suspended reinforced concrete floor with the lower ceiling finished 'off-form' and sitting on concrete block walls (he & my mum made all the blocks!). The local building & health inspector had never seen such things and made things very time wasting as my Dah had to educate him as the building progressed.

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## Outdamnspot!

> Better explain it to me then   the local authorities are supposed to be ensuring compliance with the national standards, but as with nearly all compliance regimes the enforcers on the ground can bring some weird and wonderful interpretations into the game. Arguing the toss with officialdom is always a tricky area and often even worse when you are right and they wrong - and depending upon how you handle it it is easy to win the battle and lose the war (or at least have a few more battles put in your way). Welcome to bureaucracy! Have to say I haven't seen all that much of that, but once can be too much! 
> The difficulty with much of these 'interpretations' commonly arises when there is innovation involved with new design, new material or a new use of an old material. This is not new - my Dah built his new residence in country NSW in the mid '50s and used a number of what were then new technologies or new to the residential sector - for example a suspended reinforced concrete floor with the lower ceiling finished 'off-form' and sitting on concrete block walls (he & my mum made all the blocks!). The local building & health inspector had never seen such things and made things very time wasting as my Dah had to educate him as the building progressed.

  Haha...I get the picture. I know exactly what your 'Dah' has gone through. Only 6 years ago I had to explain to a council 'engineer' that a rainwater tank could do the same job as a water detention system. He wasn't quite sure but I did find another council engineer who agreed and the result of that was I saved myself about $20,000. Look how the humble rainwater tank has now become an acceptable addition in building work. That was only 6 years. Bureaucratic wheels grinding along.

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## stevoh741

> So, if I do my steel handrails out of flat bar with hardwood fixed on top but it complies with the height and strength requirements of the local authorities then that's ok?

  IMHO should be fine. I recently built a deck and had a balustrade made from flat bar (posts and top rail) with angle at the ends and stainless wire. Get a private certifier in and saves you any of the crap that comes from council. Check with the certifier first if your not sure. My whole deck was certified for less than $900 which seems like a bit but I am happy to pay this if it means I don't have to deal with council - cause IMHO they............

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## Outdamnspot!

> IMHO should be fine. I recently built a deck and had a balustrade made from flat bar (posts and top rail) with angle at the ends and stainless wire. Get a private certifier in and saves you any of the crap that comes from council. Check with the certifier first if your not sure. My whole deck was certified for less than $900 which seems like a bit but I am happy to pay this if it means I don't have to deal with council - cause IMHO they............

  Doesn't require certification. Just need to consider the question of liability for the unit owners, e.g. If someone comes into the building and slips on the stairs because they didn't get a proper handhold of the railing? Well, the building is about 90 years and has never had handrails in that position.

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## nww1969

> You're on the central coast? Then Edcon in Brookvale but there are a number of suppliers there. Are you doing the welding? If not then maybe look at one of the pre-fab systems otherwise you'll need accurate drawing and templates to take to a fabricator, or it's a measure and quote.

  Thanks for the info.

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