# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  remove window to install sliding glass door question

## rgall

Ok I am Removing a big picture window and installing a sliding glass door.  The wall isnt load bearing.  The outside of the house under the window is red brick.  I will have to remove a section approximately 6ft wide x 2.5FT tall.  How do I cut this brick out?  Can I use a circular saw and just get a masonary blade?  Is there a better tool?  I am handy and can do the job but I have never worked with brick.  Also what is the best way to finish this on the out side of the house after I put the door in. I really didnt want to chisel out the 1/2 bricks that were cut and replace them..   The door will lead to a deck..

----------


## pawnhead

G'day rgall  

> Ok I am Removing a big picture window and installing a sliding glass door.  The wall isnt load bearing.  The outside of the house under the window is red brick.  I will have to remove a section approximately 6ft wide x 2.5FT tall.

  A hole 6' wide will definitelly need some support, load bearing or not, and obviously you can't leave overhead bricks unsupported under any circumstances.
Edit; Of course it's just the section under the window you're talking about  :Doh:   

> How do I cut this brick out?  Can I use a circular saw and just get a masonary blade?

  Yes, but you have to do it from both sides, and if they're extruded bricks rather than dry pressed, you'll spend a lot more on masonry discs than a $30 diamond wheel that will do 30 times as much cutting, and it won't lose any (very little) depth of cut as it wears down. Even if they're dry pressed it would probably still be cheaper getting diamond. Wear safety glasses, and a respirator, but if I had a garden hose handy, I'd run it somewhere clear, and breath in through the hose and out through my nose.  :Wink:   The dust won't be real good for your saw either. Big angle grinders can be had quite cheap nowadays.
If it's a cavity brick wall, then you could only cut one side, but use a bolster to break off the bricks.  

> Is there a better tool?

  I'd certainly consider hiring a wet wall saw. (depending on how much cutting you're doing) It's a big, gnarly, messy beast that will cut it from one side with minimal dust.    

> Also what is the best way to finish this on the out side of the house after I put the door in.

  Reveals and architraves. Alcor flashing over the head, turned up inside, and down a bit over the doors.   

> I really didnt want to chisel out the 1/2 bricks that were cut and replace them..

   :Confused: 
Post some pictures.

----------


## autogenous

Picture!!! Picture!!! Picture!!!  :2thumbsup:    

> I use a circular saw and just get a masonary blade?

  Yes, but its bloody dangerous with the potential to make your face look like your backside especially if you not used to them. 
Circular saws are nasty when they kick back at you with the direction they spin. At least a grinder heads off to some extent in the other direction. 
It wont cut all the way through the entire brick depth either. Maybe 2 inches 
Quickcuts have a clutch which slips a little when the blade jams.

----------


## pawnhead

> It wont cut all the way through the entire brick depth either. Maybe 2 inches

  A standard 9 1/4" saw with a 230mm blade will cut just shy of 85mm. A brick is 110mm, and a bolster will easily take care of the difference.
And if you don't know how to handle a saw, then I'd sooner deal with a kickback when it's got a diamond, or abrasive blade in it, than when it's loaded with a TCT blade with lots of hungry teeth on it. Best to leave it to an expert if you're scared of power saws. 
It would be safer cutting a wall with a saw. I've mounted a TCT timber ripping blade in a full sized angle grinder before and I can tell you that it's much more scary than having it in a power saw.
After you plunge it into the wall and put pressure on, you just push it down the wall and the base plate keeps it perpendicular. With a grinder, or a very much larger and heavier quick cut, you're working freehand and if you twist it, or angle it incorrectly, then there's more chance of kickback. 
Edit; Basically, I'd say that a power saw is more dangerous than a grinder, but a power saw with a grinder blade would be safer than a grinder, and a grinder with a power saw blade would be the most dangerous of the lot. (don't try this out  :Wink:  )

----------


## autogenous

_A standard 9 1/4" saw with a 230mm blade will cut just shy of 85mm. A brick is 110mm, and a bolster will easily take care of the difference. _ Sure. Your right. Much of the time though the bolster will shatter the back arris off the brick at some stage of the process which makes it harder to get cover from the frame to fix it to the wall. 
He could always bead it and use cavity blocks. 
A grinder could always be used to finish off the back end daggy bits especially if a carborundum blade has been used and shrinks in size during the cutting process. 
A 12 inch diamond blade does a much neater job. 
Whats that gash in your face. Oh that's where I was trying to save money.  :Eek:  :Biggrin: 
I hate Carborundum blades and I dont use the word hate often. It happens very rarely, but when they explode. :Eek:

----------


## pawnhead

> Whats that gash in your face. Oh that's where I was trying to save money.

  I was much more carefree in my younger days,  :Doh:  and a grinder with a saw blade gets right into corners unlike a power saw. It came in handy in a lot of instances and I was lucky not to have had any accidents. These were the days before we had recipro saws, but was probably not that much more dangerous than an Arbortech carving blade in a small grinder though.   

> I hate Carborundum blades and I dont use the word hate often. It happens very rarely, but when they explode.

  I always stand off to one side and try not to have any body part in the same plane as the blade. Cheap diamond blades can loose pieces as well, especially if they're a segmented blade.

----------


## Ronaldo451

I have used grinders and circlar saws with masonary blades to cut through brickwork in the past. They make LOTS and LOTS of very fine red dust that gets everywhere so I would suggest if you go that way to cut the outside brickwork before your remove the inside cladding to save some cleaning up later on. When cutting inside I hung painters drop sheets from the ceiling close to the work area to contain the dust as much at possible. 
Grinders tend to twist and waft as you work you way along the cut due to the centrifical force of the motor and it is hard to keep a straight line (particularly when you literally cannot see 6 inches in front of your face due to the dust) so some tidying up later is required most times.  
My preference as an enthusiatic amateur until recently has been a circular saw with a masonary blade. Although it will not cut all the way through it is easier to keep a straight cut going once you get started. 
I recently had a few internal brick walls to cut and thought I would lash out and hire a wet saw to keep the dust down.....big, heavy (especially when trying to cut up to ceiling height) awkward to use, hard to keep a straight cut going as it twists worse that a grinder, and bugger all difference in the amount of dust that it throws around but with the added bonus of muddy sludge on the walls and floor. At $140 for the weekend it was an expensive way to find out the water is NOT to keep the dust down but to keep the metal blade cool as it cuts. 
I am likewise replacing some windows with full lenth doors shortly. I must be getting older as this time I will probably just knock out most of the bricks with a hammer under the existing window (starting from the middle) by taking out the full bricks to the edge of where they need to be removed and trimming the ones hanging out on every second course by whacking with a bolster. Then trimming the bolstered bricks with a grinder to tidy up if necessary. May take a bit more time but will be cheaper and LOTS less dust and noise. 
I trim around the cut brick edges with powdercoated aluminium angle the same colour as the doors being installed.

----------


## pawnhead

> I am likewise replacing some windows with full lenth doors shortly. I must be getting older as this time I will probably just knock out most of the bricks with a hammer under the existing window (starting from the middle) by taking out the full bricks to the edge of where they need to be removed and trimming the ones hanging out on every second course by whacking with a bolster.

  rgall would probably be better off using this method as well since he's only got to go down 2 1/2 feet on each side.
He says that it's red brick, and if that's a more modern extruded red brick then it will be hard and brittle, and they'll bolster easily, but they'd be harder to cut. On the other hand if they're dry pressed then they'll be softer but less brittle so they'll be harder to bolster and easier to cut. If it's old lime mortar, then bolstering the bricks could loosen them right up and they may just fall out and he'd have to replace a piece, and perhaps repair a few cracks. If the existing window is 6' wide then it's not likely to be an old place though.<br><br>However I'm not sure if the same analysis would apply in Pittsburgh.<br>

----------


## autogenous

> I always stand off to one side and try not to have any body part in the same plane as the blade.

  I love watching people with the blade centre of their body. Shrapnel nuts or chop in half.  :Yikes2:  :Biggrin:  
I did some cuts last week with a quikcut. Wished Id taken photos. 
yes, do the outside first, then see if you can cut the inside from the back of the cavity so you don't fill the house with dust.

----------


## rgall

Where do you get the powdercoated aluminium angle?

----------


## rgall

> I have used grinders and circlar saws with masonary blades to cut through brickwork in the past. They make LOTS and LOTS of very fine red dust that gets everywhere so I would suggest if you go that way to cut the outside brickwork before your remove the inside cladding to save some cleaning up later on. When cutting inside I hung painters drop sheets from the ceiling close to the work area to contain the dust as much at possible. 
> Grinders tend to twist and waft as you work you way along the cut due to the centrifical force of the motor and it is hard to keep a straight line (particularly when you literally cannot see 6 inches in front of your face due to the dust) so some tidying up later is required most times.  
> My preference as an enthusiatic amateur until recently has been a circular saw with a masonary blade. Although it will not cut all the way through it is easier to keep a straight cut going once you get started. 
> I recently had a few internal brick walls to cut and thought I would lash out and hire a wet saw to keep the dust down.....big, heavy (especially when trying to cut up to ceiling height) awkward to use, hard to keep a straight cut going as it twists worse that a grinder, and bugger all difference in the amount of dust that it throws around but with the added bonus of muddy sludge on the walls and floor. At $140 for the weekend it was an expensive way to find out the water is NOT to keep the dust down but to keep the metal blade cool as it cuts. 
> I am likewise replacing some windows with full lenth doors shortly. I must be getting older as this time I will probably just knock out most of the bricks with a hammer under the existing window (starting from the middle) by taking out the full bricks to the edge of where they need to be removed and trimming the ones hanging out on every second course by whacking with a bolster. Then trimming the bolstered bricks with a grinder to tidy up if necessary. May take a bit more time but will be cheaper and LOTS less dust and noise. 
> I trim around the cut brick edges with powdercoated aluminium angle the same colour as the doors being installed.

  WHere do you get the powdercoated aluminium angle?

----------


## pawnhead

I don't think there's anyone here from Pittsburgh, but considering that Pittsburgh is the headquarters and founding place of ALCOA, the biggest aluminium manufacturer in the world, I don't think you'd have too much trouble getting a hold of some.
Try inquiring here or here.  :Wink:   :2thumbsup:  
BTW, a 'hello' or a 'thanks for the replies' would have been nice.  :Rolleyes:

----------

