# Forum Contacts & Links Estimating & Quoting  quoted job completed way quicker than expected

## SloppyJoe

So I got a few quotes for a 5x5 roof re-sheeting and a couple of new gutters, they were mostly at around 5k but one came in at 3.5 and I went with him. 
He ended up finishing it in about 6.5 hours and I suspect materials would have been less than $700. 
Considering it was a quoted job it's meant to be a set price but he was paid well over $300 / hour, is this something others would have a problem with or dispute?    
I usually ask if they will work at hourly rates rather than quoted because I don't want the job rushed but they very rarely do.

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## Optimus

Sorry I'm not following, what exactly is the issue? He quoted a job (alot cheaper than others did), you accepted the job...  
Did he do what you expected? 
If yes, why do you think he should be punished for being good/fast at his job?

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## droog

Are you happy with the work and the completed job ?
You got it cheaper than the normal going price and accepted the quote provided, if you knew the price of materials and what was required any negotiation on price should have been completed before accepting the quote. 
Different story if he rushed the job and took shortcuts resulting in a poor quality workmanship.

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## craka

> So I got a few quotes for a 5x5 roof re-sheeting and a couple of new gutters, they were mostly at around 5k but one came in at 3.5 and I went with him. 
> He ended up finishing it in about 6.5 hours and I suspect materials would have been less than $700. 
> Considering it was a quoted job it's meant to be a set price but he was paid well over $300 / hour, is this something others would have a problem with or dispute?    
> I usually ask if they will work at hourly rates rather than quoted because I don't want the job rushed but they very rarely do.

  
Why would you be unhappy? You had several quotes which were higher, you went with the lowest one for the same work to be done and seems to have been completed in a timely manner.      Does the finish of the work seem to be acceptable ???? 
The roofer has to run a business with overheads etc of running a business, it's not just about an hourly rate.   With saying that, I've not had any roofing done and unsure what a reasonable rate is per m2 etc.

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## SloppyJoe

Ok so that answers the question that most don't see anything wrong with it..  Maybe it's on me for not asking how long he thinks it would take because I assumed it was a bigger job.   I guess for me with an IT background it's like quoting $500 to fix a computer I know will only take 10 minutes, it just seems dodgy.

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## droog

> it's like quoting $500 to fix a computer I know will only take 10 minutes

  But if the going rate from your competitors is $750 and you do the customer a favour and fix it for $500 would you be happy with them coming back and complaining that you charged too much. Some of the cost is knowledge, skill, tools and the overhead of a business.

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## r3nov8or

(Back in the day...)
TV repair man quotes $51 to repair the TV.
Customer agrees.
Repair man hits it on the side, and magically it works again.
Customer says, how can you change $51 for 20 seconds work?
$1 for hitting it, $50 for knowing where to hit it.

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## craka

> Ok so that answers the question that most don't see anything wrong with it..  Maybe it's on me for not asking how long he thinks it would take because I assumed it was a bigger job.   I guess for me with an IT background it's like quoting $500 to fix a computer I know will only take 10 minutes, it just seems dodgy.

  Not all work is about what hours it takes, it is the price for the job to be completed.  
Also to reflect your IT background,  what about those jobs that your thought would only take you 10min that took you a lot longer. Did you only charge 10bucks for the 10minutes you suggested it would take?    Or for those larger organisations that have set SLAs and ICT support only charge a  dollar to swap out a HS HDD in a RAID array that physically just needs drive pulled and new one pushed and that RAID controller does the rest?

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## SloppyJoe

I've always worked with estimates rather than quotes.. if it takes less time they are charged less, if it takes more time I first consider whether I wasted time or could have done it quicker before I charge more.    Yeah that's weird but I wish everyone worked from estimates, I'd be willing to pay more at an hourly rate because when quoted they are incentivized to rush the work and I don't feel like I can make special requests as the job progresses. 
I didn't answer whether I was happy with the work because it's hard for me to judge, I'm kinda OCD so I always find fault.

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## craka

> I've always worked with estimates rather than quotes.. if it takes less time they are charged less, if it takes more time I first consider whether I wasted time or could have done it quicker before I charge more.    Yeah that's weird but I wish everyone worked from estimates, I'd be willing to pay more at an hourly rate because when quoted they are incentivized to rush the work and I don't feel like I can make special requests as the job progresses. 
> I didn't answer whether I was happy with the work because it's hard for me to judge, I'm kinda OCD so I always find fault.

  Maybe this why you are taking issue with this, not disrespecting you, but maybe your OCD, is causing you to find a fault no matter what had occurred. 
I think most people paying a significant bill would rather a set amount to have job completed than to have an unexpected amount they had to pay.  As far as trades there are a lot more overhead that businesses incur than for IT support depending on the size of the operation.

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## SloppyJoe

> maybe your OCD, is causing you to find a fault no matter what had occurred.

  Please remove that comma.

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## craka

> Please remove that comma.

  Sorry. The pause is there for effect.

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## SloppyJoe

:Biggrin:  
Yeah I see how a quote can be better to avoid surprises and hourly rates could be exploited by slacking off too...  I just wish I could find a tradie that does decent work at a reasonable price..  most don't even return calls around here.

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## Optimus

> Yeah I see how a quote can be better to avoid surprises and hourly rates could be exploited by slacking off too...  I just wish I could find a tradie that does decent work at a reasonable price..  most don't even return calls around here.

  You'd probably still find something to complain about... imho

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## Marc

I had a concreter quoting $11,000 for a job he completed in two days, so he charged me $687.50 an hour!
I better call him back for a refund  :Rofl5:

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## Jon

I work in IT for a major telco and dislike quoting, preferring to work at an hourly rate. 
I am very experienced and fast, if I know it will be me doing the job I quote what I think it will take me plus a few hours extra.  If there is a chance that one of my fellow employees will be performing the work I multiply the hours by at least 1.5, and then feel embarrassed submitting the quote.

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## METRIX

> I just wish I could find a tradie that does decent work at a reasonable price..  most don't even return calls around here.

  Sounds like you found it with this roofer, as he came in a lot less than the others, but your still complaining because he was able to use his experience to complete the job in what you assume is too quick. 
I guess you can't please everyone.

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## Marc

i use the same electrician for all my jobs since my daughter's father in law retired, and he charges me by the hour. 
Never abused this and always does a professional job and priced very low.

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## METRIX

> i use the same electrician for all my jobs since my daughter's father in law retired, and he charges me by the hour. 
> Never abused this and always does a professional job and priced very low.

  I have some awesome Electricians (the old one was an A-Hole), these ones are very professional, top quality finish, I would never consider looking for an alternative, also never overcharged.
Have never been able to find a decent Plumber, had one but he moved to the country to get married, all the others are either very sloppy work / way overpriced and leave everything in a mess when they leave.

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## toooldforthis

> Yeah I see how a quote can be better to avoid surprises and hourly rates could be exploited by slacking off too...  I just wish I could find a tradie that does decent work at a reasonable price..  most don't even return calls around here.

  It's Perth/WA. Got this way because of the mining construction boom and tradies started to make exceptional money.
supply & demand economics.
some of them started to feel entitled to charge whatever they liked and do whatever -  but like anything the good ethical ones were in high demand. 
at least you got someone to come and do the job with what sounds like reasonable quality -  I am surprised you managed to get several quotes! unheard of!
this downturn might bring Perth tradie prices back down to earth, but I am not sure how we will ever recover to having quality tradies -  they are pretty scarce ime.

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## SloppyJoe

> Sounds like you found it with this roofer, as he came in a lot less than the others, but your still complaining because he was able to use his experience to complete the job in what you assume is too quick. 
> I guess you can't please everyone.

  Well he was the only one that wasn't specifically a roofer and only one  that worked alone.  His quote also excluded a ridge vent which others  included, it's not really apples to apples, I just wanted to mention  that I got multiple quotes so the pricing wasn't suspect. 
Oh and as for the quality, like I mentioned, it's hard for me to judge because I'm very fussy and nearly always end up finishing other peoples work but after he left I found that he attached the gutter to the roofing sheets. I called him up and said it seemed a dodgy way to do it but he insisted it's not unusual and it makes replacing the gutter easier.  I found mention of this on this forum, the gutter is designed just for that purpose so alright I can live with it but I mentioned the gutter sits level and he said that's how most houses are done these days.  I kinda doubt that but have yet to verify it.  I'll be putting some spacers in to give it some drop anyway..  So yeah I'm not totally happy with the work but I never am so didn't bring it up.

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## METRIX

> Well he was the only one that wasn't specifically a roofer and only one  that worked alone.  His quote also excluded a ridge vent which others  included, it's not really apples to apples, I just wanted to mention  that I got multiple quotes so the pricing wasn't suspect. 
> Oh and as for the quality, like I mentioned, it's hard for me to judge because I'm very fussy and nearly always end up finishing other peoples work but after he left I found that he attached the gutter to the roofing sheets. I called him up and said it seemed a dodgy way to do it but he insisted it's not unusual and it makes replacing the gutter easier.  I found mention of this on this forum, the gutter is designed just for that purpose so alright I can live with it but I mentioned the gutter sits level and he said that's how most houses are done these days.  I kinda doubt that but have yet to verify it.  I'll be putting some spacers in to give it some drop anyway..  So yeah I'm not totally happy with the work but I never am so didn't bring it up.

  My mates brother is soooo picky about anything they buy or have done, that most goods are either returned or replaced, usually because of a very insignificant thing that does not affect the operation etc.
Such as the lights on the control panel may be slightly harder to read because they are blue, or something like that, so he will ring the place up and have them take it away. 
I'm talking 95% of the stuff he gets this is the end result, we laugh about it every time we see him :Tongue: . 
I'm doing a deck job for them soon, I hope I don't regret it, as I'm very picky but maybe not enough for him  :Biggrin:

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## Whitey66

> So I got a few quotes for a 5x5 roof re-sheeting and a couple of new gutters, they were mostly at around 5k but one came in at 3.5 and I went with him. 
> He ended up finishing it in about 6.5 hours and I suspect materials would have been less than $700. 
> Considering it was a quoted job it's meant to be a set price but he was paid well over $300 / hour, is this something others would have a problem with or dispute?    
> I usually ask if they will work at hourly rates rather than quoted because I don't want the job rushed but they very rarely do.

  If you have an IT background, how can you "suspect" that the materials would have cost less than $700?
Like others said, there are many overheads that a lot of people don't realise. For instance, did he have to pick up and deliver the materials to your property? Was there any travelling involved etc. etc.
If the materials did only come to $700, that means you paid just over $430 per hour (inc. any GST). 
The way around this is by asking for an itemised quote for materials and labour, and working at an hourly rate (if they'll do it.)
If they quoted you, say 10 hours, and one guy does it on his own in 6.5 then you have a case, but as it stands you got what you paid for. 
How many other workers were on the job, or did he just work alone?  If more than 1 guy, someone has to pay for them too.

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## SloppyJoe

I checked the retail price of the materials and it was a bit over $700, I suspect he wouldn't pay retail so rounded down.
He knocked off $300 from the original quote because he ended up patching rather than replacing the box gutter so it was around $3.2k or $384 / hour without considering other expenses. 
He worked alone, actually I helped a little passing sheets up etc 
 Anyway, not a big deal.. it wasn't a real expensive job, I was just curious how others felt about this kinda thing.

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## cyclic

I would hope next time you get work done, if the job takes longer than YOU expect you will pay extra.

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## Uncle Bob

> some of them started to feel entitled to charge whatever they liked and do whatever

  A bit of deregulation would fix that up quick smart.

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## Optimus

> I would hope next time you get work done, if the job takes longer than YOU expect you will pay extra.

  Well said!

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## John2b

I had to get an instant hot water service replaced recently, about 2 hours work (or at least that's my time estimate for DIY without all the fancy tools). The HWS was $700 and I had three quotes from $2,400 to $2,700. I finally found a licensed gas fitter to do it for $1,200. $500 for two hours work is still plenty for overheads such as the plumber's new five bedroom six bathroom house, the big fishing boat and the 7-litre V-8 Ram to pull the boat IMHO.

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## John2b

> Well said!

  In the very first post the OP said he was happy to pay by the hour so the tradie would not rush the job, which is clearly implying he is happy to pay for extra time. https://www.renovateforum.com/f183/q...0/#post1109012

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## Optimus

> In the very first post the OP said he was happy to pay by the hour so the tradie would not rush the job, which is clearly implying he is happy to pay for extra time. https://www.renovateforum.com/f183/q...0/#post1109012

  But the job wasn't an hourly rate job, it was a fixed price... hence the comment from cyclic....  
In the very first post the OP says this...   https://www.renovateforum.com/f183/q...0/#post1109012

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## SloppyJoe

> I would hope next time you get work done, if the job takes longer than YOU expect you will pay extra.

  Yes I would pay extra depending on the circumstances, I want whatever is fair for both parties but considering the tradie has a much better idea of how long a job would take and tend to have huge mark ups, it would be a very rare occurrence.

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## johnc

I think this has been flogged to death. Three quotes, nothing to indicate overcharging there. A price was agreed to for a set task which was duly completed in a satisfactory manner. There is actually a verbal contract in place, so the tradie should be paid the agreed price. Don't forget his time also includes the time spent arranging and picking up materials. the fact the OP now feels shortchanged is not relevant. The one thing to be careful of is if you waste someone elses time nit picking then they either never come back or if they do charge a loading (the PIA fee). 
Always make clear what you want up front, if you wanted this to be hours plus materials then don't enter into a fixed price arrangment and if you do suck it up and be done with it, this complaining just wastes everyones time. This isn't being fair to both parties, really the only party being considered here is the purchaser and their notion they have been ripped off based on their facts which may not be true as they are based on assumptions that can't be fully backed up.

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## SloppyJoe

Who's complaining?  I just asked if others see anything wrong with it and said I think this method of quoting is easy to exploit and doesn't incentivize good workmanship. 
Seems this place is full of tradies who have been burnt by customers and vise versa and some topics are going to stir the pot.

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## craka

> Who's complaining?  I just asked if others see anything wrong with it and said I think this method of quoting is easy to exploit and doesn't incentivize good workmanship. 
> Seems this place is full of tradies who have been burnt by customers and vise versa and some topics are going to stir the pot.

  
There are numerous tradies on here, those currently in the workplace and those who have retired, then there is also others that are from a trade background. 
I'm not in building trade per se, I work in Telecommunication mainly carrier side and have a background along time ago in IT.  I work for an employer and get paid by the hour, but I understand what a quote and agreement to that is. I also have family ties that have their own small business in a building trade and have an understanding of what cost they incur by way over overheads etc, and believe me when you include the hours that go in to quoting, admin, organising jobs and materials etc etc. It's not a great hourly rate, but they do alright.

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## toooldforthis

> Who's complaining?  I just asked if others see anything wrong with it and said I think this method of quoting is easy to exploit and doesn't incentivize good workmanship. 
> Seems this place is full of tradies who have been burnt by customers and vise versa and some topics are going to stir the pot.

  small jobs like yours can always look overpriced cause it is easy to ignore the overheads that others have mentioned. 
here's a tip - in a previous life I ran a team of people for a national company who got contracted out for work on an hourly rate - some small contracts (hours/days) some larger (weeks/months)
we had to charge out the salary hour rate at *3 times* to turn a profit.
several times I had to explain to staff why this was because, say, they were sitting their on $25ph and we charged the client $75ph - why shouldn't they go freelance and charge $50 or $60.
well, we have to add to your $25ph your annual eave (4 weeks), sick leave (2 weeks), public holidays (another 2 weeks min) - that's 40+ days we are paying you for which we get no income.
then add training (more days off and costs) and super, and payroll tax.
then all the hours you are being paid for non chargeable hours - quoting, tenders, site visits - maybe on jobs we don't get
then support staff who don't get charged to clients - admin etc who have to be paid somehow.
plus all the other costs, marketing etc to pull in work so you can be employed.
and then the times we had to drop our rate just to get the job and keep you employed.
think I have probably left a few things out  :Smilie: 
anyway, I am sure you get the drift.    

> I think this has been flogged to death. Three quotes, nothing to indicate overcharging there. A price was agreed to for a set task which was duly completed in a satisfactory manner. There is actually a verbal contract in place, so the tradie should be paid the agreed price. Don't forget his time also includes the time spent arranging and picking up materials. the fact the OP now feels shortchanged is not relevant. The one thing to be careful of is if you waste someone elses time nit picking then they either never come back or if they do charge a loading (the PIA fee). 
> Always make clear what you want up front, if you wanted this to be hours plus materials then don't enter into a fixed price arrangment and if you do suck it up and be done with it, this complaining just wastes everyones time. This isn't being fair to both parties, really the only party being considered here is the purchaser and their notion they have been ripped off based on their facts which may not be true as they are based on assumptions that can't be fully backed up.

  good points.   

> A bit of deregulation would fix that up quick smart.

  edit: whoops, sry, read that as _A bit of de regulation_  :Smilie: yeah nah.
how are those tower blocks built to regs that are falling down going for the owners? Mascot Towers was it?
builders long gone.

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