# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Shower Install

## zeroseven

Hi 
Hope someone can offer some advice.  I'm replacing the existing corner shower.  It has a hob, or had, it's all ripped out now.  Concrete slab floor.  New shower will be in the same place, putting up new villaboard tomorrow.  All good. 
Have hebel for the new hob.  A nice shiny shower enclosed screen and a 'shower wall'.  For clarity the shower wall is essentially a piece of plastic  :Smilie:  
So when I took the old shower and walls out today the old shower had a brick hob and all of it was sitting in some kind of plastic tray/flashing type thing which had been waterproofed.  A bit of searching now seems to imply this was 'old school', is that the case?  Seems like quite a good idea as it had contained all the water, shame they hadn't waterproofed some of the walls as well though or there wouldn't be any damp behind there! 
I spoke to the water proofing manufacturer this afternoon and they recommend laying the screed, then waterproofing over the top of that.  I asked them as there seems to be a split on whether to waterproof then screed or the other way round. 
So, do I: 
1: Fix villaboard wall
2: Lay the hob
3: Prime everything
4: Fix the plastic shower wall first?
5: Screed
6: Waterproof, paint on with bondbreaker tape.  Is this the 'new school' equivalent of the plastic tray I saw today?
7: Tile the floor
8: Fit the shower screen
9: Give myself a big pat of the back for doing something I should of done many years ago but life kept getting in the way  :Smilie:  
Cheers

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## Oldsaltoz

The plastic liner is 'Old school', though you can still but stainless steel liners. The liners are positioned before the sheeting is applied to the walls, just like the plastic shower bases are. 
I am not sure what you mean by a plastic sheet on the wall, is to avoid tiling? 
Do you plan to build another Hob? perhaps Hebel stone? 
Most builders use Alloy angles these days, it gives you a little bit more room than the hobs for the same area because the hob needs the screen on the inside edge, but the angle goes to the edge and the screen sits just inside it so a 30 mm on all walls and screen. 
You will need to install a puddle flange before you waterproof and add the screed, this device (with adjustable grate height adjuster) will ensure any water trapped in the screed in drained away properly. 
The reason most showers are sealed before the screed is to avoid the 2 days waiting for it to dry out. 
Be very careful not to damage the waterproofing membrane at all times, some of the 'off the shelf D.I.Y' products have no membrane at all and remain semi soft so watch out.   
If you are reusing the old screen make sure your new base il lined up properly as well. 
Good luck   :Smilie:

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## zeroseven

Hi 
Thanks for the reply.  The shower wall is this: Shower Wall Liner Modern 900x900x2000mm W1 I/N 4890197 | Bunnings Warehouse  It's not to avoid tiling, it's just that I don't really like tiles in the shower.  This is easy to clean. Totally waterproof and in my opinion just looks better.  My thinking is this would go on the wall first, then screed, then waterproof, etc.. 
I have a new shower screen.  
I'll look into the puddle flange thanks.  I was thinking as I pulling out the old shower where does the water go that is in the screed in this shower?  No-where.  It just sits in the plastic tray, which is just odd, to my mind anyway.  
Cheers

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## phild01

Best to waterproof over screed if possible.

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## jimfish

We install the shower liner after waterproofing,but we are puting them on top of a polymarble shower base.
I would think you would install it to the same schedule as if you where tiling the wall.

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## zeroseven

Thanks for all the replies.  
I have everything sorted in my head now except the drain.  I've attached a picture of what is there now. 
What brand etc of puddle flange would suit this or are they all similar and any one will do? 
Cheers

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## Oldsaltoz

The wondercap retro fit would be easy to install. 
Just cut the old wast flush to the base, pop the puddle flange in and mark the area with a pencil then tale about 5 mm off, stick it sown with sealant, do not use any screws, thau may corrode and swell with rust and effect you waterproofing. 
run waterproofing down into the flange then put the insert for the grate holder in. 
Good luck.

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## zeroseven

Champion, thank you! 
Last question...if I'm screening then waterproofing, the flange will go on top of the screed and so no need to pull out the angle grinder right?

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## Oldsaltoz

> Champion, thank you! 
> Last question...if I'm screening then waterproofing, the flange will go on top of the screed and so no need to pull out the angle grinder right?

  Best practice is to install the puddle flange on the slab, not over screed. you need a watertight seal between the waste pipe and puddle flange. 
The waste pipe must be cut flush to the slab with no screed under it, then sealed with suitable sealant like Sikaflex 11FC (Fast cure), the sealant goes on the underside of the flange and push down hard then seal the 4 screw holes (Never use the screws even in a timber floor, they corrode and may swell compromising your waterproofing). 
Then place your screed and let it cure till dry, you do not want to seal any moisture in. This is the reason most showers are waterproofed first to save the drying time. 
After drying, waterproof over the screed and down into the puddle flange, note the adjustable slide out grate holder is removed at this stage. 
Be very very careful when tiling over the screed as most waterproofing membranes are easily damaged when exposed, just stepping on it with grit on your footwear can be enough. Look for hard finish product for this project, fibreglass would be my choice woth an epoxy based top coat for chemical protection. 
Or you waterproof first then screed like 90% of showers are done. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## phild01

> Look for hard finish product for this project, fibreglass would be my choice woth an epoxy based top coat for chemical protection. 
> Or you waterproof first then screed like 90% of showers are done. 
> Good luck.

  Not sure about the fibreglass bit for this.  Was once used many years ago but it is brittle and fails.  I would not be using fibreglass as a water proofing membrane.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Not sure about the fibreglass bit for this.  Was once used many years ago but it is brittle and fails.  I would not be using fibreglass as a water proofing membrane.

  Had a call from a bloke last year to have a look at his shower in an old Queenslander, thinking about all the movement problems is these on the way there. 
To my suprise it was waterproofed 26 years ago and with fibreglass and had no leaks, other than having to reseal the shower screen with fresh sealant. 
Keeping in mind the screen is not any part of the waterproofing. 
Fibreglass is still used for waterproofing today, it lost some market when the Poly and Latex based products hit the market at cheaper prices, but has overtaken fibreglass in many applications. 
BTW there are still hundreds of fibreglass boats out there that were put into the water back in the 1950,s  
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## zeroseven

AM Oldsaltoz you're putting me right off waterproofing on top of the screed, but then phild01 reckons to go over the top and so did the waterproof manufacturer, but then most others say it's done before the screed.  Decisions decisions  :Smilie:  
Thanks again for your advice, really appreciate it.  I've done bathrooms and kitchens before, but never a shower and I want to get it right.

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## phild01

The only reason I know why waterproofing is applied under the screed is because it saves lots of time.  It is best over the screed but the screed must be dry.  It has been mentioned before that a test for if the screed is dry is to leave some plastic over it overnight and check it for evapourated moisture.  As for fibreglass, I have seen it fail because it lacks flexibility.  It should not be compared with boat building as a fibreglass boat is a structural element.  Fibreglass waterproofing is just a brittle coating that does not stand up well to movement.  The newer products are better thought out with bond breakers for any of these movements.

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## Oldsaltoz

> The only reason I know why waterproofing is applied under the screed is because it saves lots of time.  It is best over the screed but the screed must be dry.  It has been mentioned before that a test for if the screed is dry is to leave some plastic over it overnight and check it for evapourated moisture.  As for fibreglass, I have seen it fail because it lacks flexibility.  It should not be compared with boat building as a fibreglass boat is a structural element.  Fibreglass waterproofing is just a brittle coating that does not stand up well to movement.  The newer products are better thought out with bond breakers for any of these movements.

  Sorry couldn't resist adding the boat. 
I guess if you used standard off the shelf fibrefglass it would be a bit brittle and stiff, however the fibreglass used for waterproofing is anything but standard. 
The resin is infused with fillers and other compounds that result in more flexible and forgiving structure, certainly  a lot more durable and user friendly, though you do get smell of Styrene as cures, but soon disipates when the protective top coat is added. 
If were prone to failure it would not have stood up so long in an old Queenslander for so many years. 
There are still a lot of builders who will only use Fibreglass based on their experiance with it over the years. 
So, if your waterproofing professional turns up with a bucket of stock standard resin, send him away or you may well have a problem. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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