# Forum More Stuff Oops!  Bathrooms... do we make stuff too well??

## OBBob

Yes... another cat amongst the pigeons thread. 
But having just ripped out a bathroom only to  find the manufacture date on the bath was only ten years ago.  
And, ripping out unscathed chipboard floors whilst wondering how hard screwed down Scyon will be to get out again.  
And seeing the beautiful work that goes into vanities and other aspects of these rooms by many on here... only to be outdated 10-15 years later (on average).  
And METRIX talking about a business to manufacture art for the bathroom... but again it would be sad to think this may not get the longevity of other fine furniture.  
I do wonder sometimes if it's too much for a room that isn't really used that much.  
Thoughts?

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## Whitey66

My bathroom is done in a federation style with free standing 6 foot bath tub ( I did it about 25 years ago and it still looks good). I find if you do a bathroom in the old style it has better longevity than if you try to keep up with what's currently in at the moment. But you also have to have a house that suits this style.

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## pharmaboy2

Predicting technology is one of the problems - eg showers on rails and rain showers are real improvements, as are the ubiquitous use of mixer taps that are now easily controllable for temperature and flow. 
hung vanities are a real long term advantage (if they don't sag and are made well)- we won't be going back to floor standing vanities anytime soon. 
things that are purely aesthetic sometimes date a bit - eg feature tiles from the 90's, corner spas that are too big to fill and use.  Currently, you have black taps and fittings (of dubious long term quality -they do lose finish rapidly),  pendants as lighting (at least it should be easily fixed), too many niches (shower one will last because it solves a real problem), freestanding baths in tiny bathrooms perhaps, almost anything with WOW on reality TV......  :Wink: , mosaics and subway tiles 
simple, good design.  Old style often misses out on many of the niceties of modern invention as a result - eg aforesaid rain showers, underfloor heating , efficient lighting, efficient steam exhaust etc

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## toooldforthis

I had pondered on starting a thread on quality but decided against it for all the obvious reasons  
I have renovated/restored 3 or 4 houses of different eras in my time and have done them in keeping with their era. Doesn't mean you cant have all the mod cons.
As whitey said these type of renos don't date, in the same way at least. And I have always found there is a market when time came to sell. 
There is some good modern design, but rare here in Perth, and these will date as they age but good design will always be appreciated.
I don't follow the reality reno shows, the few I have watched are boring and predictable.
A neighbouring property was a participant in one of them, they have tried to sell several times with no success so I guess what suits tv doesn't suit buyers. 
as for bathrooms I think quality counts cause of the treatment they get, wet, humidity.... and the cost of doing them it is silly to skimp on quality. 
My beef is the quality of product and trades. 
Chrome that doesn't last. Plastics. Asbestos in new products. flammable so called fire retardant products. The list is long.
Price is no guarantee. Brand isn't either. 
Trades that don't give a sh*t. Could just be a Perth thing. Mining construction boom has ruined trade skills and work ethics.
Many times I hear that some new houses here have a lifespan of 10 years.

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## Whitey66

> simple, good design.  Old style often misses out on many of the niceties of modern invention as a result - eg aforesaid rain showers, underfloor heating , efficient lighting, efficient steam exhaust etc

  I don't think underfloor heating and efficient lighting is necessary for a room you spend very little time in as oBBob stated. And why can't you use underfloor heating and rain showers in an old style bathroom ?? You can buy traditional style rain showers.
My bathroom has pendant style lighting but is fitted with LED Philips big bulbs that keep with the style and are very energy efficient and bright.
As for efficient steam exhaust, I find that the old style exhaust fans are more efficient at removing steam than the newer models.
Hung vanities equals less storage space and while they look nice and modern with their "floating in the air" effect, imho are not much of an advantage (More floor to mop  :Smilie:  ).
I do agree that the newer showers are definitely a huge improvement though.

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## PlatypusGardens

I have zero interest in what's trendy or looks good in a bathroom/toilet.
To me it's an area of function, it serves a purpose.
(mind you, I pretty much look at the whole house that way  :Rofl5:  )

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## OBBob

> I have zero interest in what's trendy or looks good in a bathroom/toilet.
> To me it's an area of function, it serves a purpose.
> (mind you, I pretty much look at the whole house that way  )

  ... and your left hand from what I've seen.   :Tongue:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Trades that don't give a sh*t. Could just be a Perth thing. Mining construction boom has ruined trade skills and work ethics.
> Many times I hear that some new houses here have a lifespan of 10 years.

  Sounds like Mackay when the boom was booming.
It seemed it was almost a competition who could knock up the most houses in a year. 
Many of the big building companies have since gone bust (and they had all been around for a long time)
Got too greedy, bought a big boat, ran up huge debts with suppliers, didn't pay their contractors.....usual story    :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

> ... and your left hand from what I've seen.

  
Yep
It's not pretty but it works

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## Marc

> I have zero interest in what's trendy or looks good in a bathroom/toilet.
> To me it's an area of function, it serves a purpose.
> (mind you, I pretty much look at the whole house that way  )

  So you wouldn't subscribe to a portable golden toilet bowl transported around for you, would you?  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

IMO wall hung vanities were the best thing since vanities were installed in bathrooms. 
One big problem in any wet room is water damage, floor based vanities eventually succumb to soaking up water, then exploding.
Yes wall hung may sacrifice a small amount of storage space, but really how much stuff do you want in a small room that's only used for a short period of time. 
I would prefer to be able to mop under the vanity any day, than mop past a dodgy timber kicker. 
It's not just bathrooms that are short term, kitchens, bedrooms are all the same, the retail world has taught us we NEED new all the time, that's why people like Hardly Normal are billionaires, and why geriatric is spewing and having his quarterly rant about unfair this or unfair that now that Amazon is coming to Australia, because they have affiliates in everything from electrical to bathrooms, at better prices and service. 
Quality can still be had, but you need to pay for it which your average joe does not want to. 
I was reading an interesting article about why so much frozen berries etc comes from China and Chile, Australia can grow as much fruit as we need to freeze and fresh but the blueberry industry is very small out here because China can grow them cheaper due to the normal economics of slave labour, then freeze them and ship them here cheaper than a local supplier. 
The article explained about one big local supplier that gets so little for their product from Woolies or Coles they said they cannot compete with imported product, while woolies and Coles jacks up the local price to the consumer to a ridiculous level because they make more on the imported product. 
When the hepatitis scare came out, one of the big suppliers was contacted by locals asking if they did frozen fruits, the reply was yes we do actually have ton's of frozen fruits which are the ones that are slightly damaged and cannot be sold as fresh due to them not looking perfect, the supplier said they just could not throw them out as it was such a waste, so they freeze them and sell them as cattle feed to the local farmers. 
They said once people started to find out they would sell them this bruised perfectly good frozen fruit, they literally sold out of the tons of fruit they had stored in a matter of weeks. 
At the same time companies import frozen fruit from China which has been grown in dubious methods and sell it cheaper through the major retail chains, if your lucky you might also get a bag which contains hepatitis. 
The article went on to explain the frozen fruit from Chile, contains a high proportion of chemicals banned here due to different regulations over there as to what can or cannot be used, so we are getting inferior fruit full of who knows what, 
The whole crux to this problem was, studies were done and the average Australian said they buy food based on how cheap it is, not so much where it's made due to pressures on their household spend.
So this ties back to the original post in that if your average joe is not concerned what they are shoving down their pie hole and the long term unknown effect this is having on their health, they won't be concerned about buying quality anything.  
BTW: Coles recently made a profit of 1.86 Billion, yes Billion, with woolworths at 2.45 Billion,  
I can’t wait for the food labeling changes to come in, not sure how much difference it's going to make, but hopefully it will be less confusing than it currently is where the contents are being sourced from.

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## OBBob

Lol... I read the whole post waiting for where it linked back into the topic.   :Biggrin:   
I do hope your products buck the trend are held onto longer than the average.

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## Optimus

Same, all i got out of that is metrix still hasn't learnt when to use your and you're...

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## METRIX

> Same, all i got out of that is metrix still hasn't learnt when to use your and you're...

  Maybe I do it just to annoy you  :Smilie: , and it's obviously working, hang on i will fix it.

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## toooldforthis

> IMO ... (snip)

  Yep
Agree with all of that.
Wall hung
And lack of standards on imports
But I still reckon if you want to pay for quality it is hard to find.

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## commodorenut

The sooner the freestanding bath trend ends, the better.  I cannot understand fools who jam one in 30mm off a corner, and wonder how they're supposed to clean all the grot out from behind it.  Or worse still, literally encase it with 2 walls and a glass shower screen, so you can't clean part of the glass, but I guess that disguises the perfect view of all the crud stuck down the gap.... 
We went with a wall hung vanity for the reasons Metrix noted.  The bath is installed traditionally, and a flush fitting toilet - everything we could do to make it easy to clean, and easy to maintain. 
I don't subscribe to the theory that it's "only a bathroom" - it's a critical room in the house, used by household members on a daily basis, and often several times in a day.  It's worth spending the money in a room that has such high traffic & a utility usage - just like a kitchen. 
I was careful 17 years ago with the bathroom & laundry in my old house - they haven't really dated, as I didn't immerse myself in the trends around at the time - just stayed with white walls, bath, vanity, white & chrome taps & rails, single colour floor tiles, and let the towels and other crap bring in the colour.   Same again with this place - white walls..... 
Couple of weeks back I walked into a mate's new place, built in 2000, I saw the same tiles that were on display in one of the sample bathrooms at the tile shop - right down to matching the floor, wall borders, and features.  You can really pick that era, even though it's not as obvious as the brown & orange 70s themes.  I don't know why people spend more than a new car doing a bathroom up to match a short lived trend - it may look good for 2 years, but then it's a regret for the next 10-15.....

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## toooldforthis

Even tho I got out of the wrong side of the bed today
as in most days 
I am showing some self control and am refraining from commenting in this thread: https://www.renovateforum.com/f200/b...5/#post1044500

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## JB1

> Even tho I got out of the wrong side of the bed today
> as in most days 
> I am showing some self control and am refraining from commenting in this thread: https://www.renovateforum.com/f200/b...5/#post1044500

  Go for your life old man  :Biggrin:  
TCR

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## METRIX

> Lol... I read the whole post waiting for where it linked back into the topic.   
> I do hope your products buck the trend are held onto longer than the average.

  I guess what is "average" bathrooms I tend to rip out used to be from the 60S, nowadays they are from the 80's, I think this is mostly due to most bathrooms around that era are project homes, and the bathrooms were notoriously cheap things. 
They all look the same, stupid big corner spa bath (which every person I talk to says we never use it, it takes too much water to fill it and it's simply too big and is a dust collector), they cannot wait to get rid of it.
They all have that same wavy white tile, with the thin border tile on top and to boot they are all LEAKING. 
The 1980's bathrooms were the worst installed bathrooms I have ever come across, all on chipboard, all leaking, all cheap fittings and HUGE spa baths, the 1970's ones were freaky colours but overall have lasted quite some time, considering most were NOT waterproofed. 
I agree with the freestanding bath thing, simple rule if you dont have enough room for it, don't put it in, nothing looks more silly than a freestanding bath jammed into a small corner, you need a bigger room for these. 
Below is one I was involved in recently, it was a smart timeless design, it used a back to wall freestanding bath which gave the look without the problems, the pics below that are typical examples of where a freestanding bath should never have been fitted.

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## ChocDog

I think it comes down to a factor of cost for most people these days. Which is very understandable. Personally I'd prefer to go with less 'features' but have better quality in the ones we do. They generally last better, look better and make me appreciate the space better. IMHO only though. That said the $$$'s I'm seeing for our custom made (floating!) recycled messmate vanity is making me wish I'd be happy with a piece of chip board on a couple of besser blocks!  
OT:That looks good Metrix. You dont happen to remember the bath model do you? We are chasing something very similar (back to wall freestanding) and the selection available so far is failing to impress... 
Cheers.   

> .   
> Below is one I was involved in recently, 
>  used a back to wall freestanding bath which gave the look without the problems,

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## PlatypusGardens

> I don't subscribe to the theory that it's "only a bathroom" - it's a critical room in the house, used by household members on a daily basis, and often several times in a day.  It's worth spending the money in a room that has such high traffic & a utility usage - just like a kitchen.

  Getting good quality gear is one thing.
Spending $bazillion on [that tap they used on The Block] is another. 
And of course different strokes and all that.
A household with 4 teenagers is different from our household with two people and no kids. 
Our bathroom gets used for about 15min/day all up. 
I shower, brush my teeth, spit in the basin, check my face in the mirror for blackheads and that's about it  :Rofl5:   
Corner spa baths were a great feature back in the day haha.
Much like the patio/outdoor ones which rarely seem to get used in most cases.

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## OBBob

> ... 
> I am showing some self control and am refraining from commenting in this thread: https://www.renovateforum.com/f200/b...5/#post1044500

  Fail...

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## METRIX

> I think it comes down to a factor of cost for most people these days. Which is very understandable. Personally I'd prefer to go with less 'features' but have better quality in the ones we do. They generally last better, look better and make me appreciate the space better. IMHO only though. That said the $$$'s I'm seeing for our custom made (floating!) recycled messmate vanity is making me wish I'd be happy with a piece of chip board on a couple of besser blocks!  
> OT:That looks good Metrix. You dont happen to remember the bath model do you? We are chasing something very similar (back to wall freestanding) and the selection available so far is failing to impress... 
> Cheers.

  
Caroma CUBE, OHHHHH Phil is going to have coronary CUBE Square AHHHHHHHH  https://www.caroma.com.au/bathrooms/...estanding-bath

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## OBBob

I have one from Highgrove. You need to check they are fully enclosed, some are open at the back where it meets the wall. This isn't.    http://www.highgrovebathrooms.com.au...g-bath-1500mm/

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## METRIX

What you see on the BLOCK is all fantasy. 
That show has just turned into how much can I waste on stupid things, like $1000 on a tap or shower head, in the real world, normal people except drug dealers don't spend that sort of money on those things.

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## OBBob

> What you see on the BLOCK is all fantasy. 
> That show has just turned into how much can I waste on stupid things, like $1000 on a tap or shower head, in the real world, normal people except drug dealers don't spend that sort of money on those things.

  I haven't watched the block since the first series many years ago... I thought part of the challenge was the budget, clearly that has changed.

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## METRIX

> I haven't watched the block since the first series many years ago... I thought part of the challenge was the budget, clearly that has changed.

  
Same here, the snippets I have watched the cost of the rooms are phenominal.  
One bath made from timber cost $7500, another one that looked like an egg $6000,

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## phild01

> Caroma CUBE, OHHHHH Phil is going to have coronary CUBE Square AHHHHHHHH  https://www.caroma.com.au/bathrooms/...estanding-bath

  Yes, not particularly nice that one.  OBbob's suggestion is much nicer with the slim walls and rounded corners. 
The block is there to promote the excess that Reece feel what we should be expected to buy, and pay.  Reece is my last port of call for that reason.

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## PlatypusGardens

I avoid commercial TV like the plague.
Sometimes, against your will, you come across these shows.....like at someone else's house or whatever.  
The fact that all these shows are STILL going and people like Kochie and Karl Stefanovic are STILL on prime time morning TV proves that the majority the TV audience are people I would not invite to my BBQ, so to speak.  
Ahum.  
back on topic.   :Blush7:

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## phild01

> I avoid commercial TV like the plague.
> Sometimes, against your will, you come across these shows.....like at someone else's house or whatever.  
> The fact that all these shows are STILL going and people like Kochie and Karl Stefanovic are STILL on prime time morning TV proves that the majority the TV audience are people I would not invite to my BBQ, so to speak.  
> Ahum.  
> back on topic.

  Yes well, have to agree with that, but the ABC is hardly ideal and not particularly apolitical, being grossly green!

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## toooldforthis

> Fail...

  I had a personal invite from the OP https://www.renovateforum.com/f229/b...4/#post1044505
Obviously realises, unlike some, valuable input when they see it.
I'll just pop over now to see how I got blasted  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## toooldforthis

> I'll just pop over now to see how I got blasted

  Stopped the thread dead!
Must have been the wisdom.
Unlike other threads that ramble on...

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## PlatypusGardens

> I had a personal invite from the OP https://www.renovateforum.com/f229/b...4/#post1044505
> Obviously realises, unlike some, valuable input when they see it.
> I'll just pop over now to see how I got blasted

   

> Stopped the thread dead!
> Must have been the wisdom.
> Unlike other threads that ramble on...

  i click on that link and keep ending up back here 
what kind of sorcery is this?
 Feels like I'm trapped in Escher's staircase   :Runaway:

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## OBBob

> Stopped the thread dead!
> Must have been the wisdom.
> Unlike other threads that ramble on...

  Good work... perhaps you could drop into the climate change thread?   
Hey PG I wasn't invited to your BBQ?   
Oh...   :Frown:

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## PlatypusGardens

:Bbq2:   :Console:

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## autogenous

Ive often pondered this now. 
After ripping out many bathrooms, older are in good shape but come like a drea.
New homes full of cracks are glued within an inch their life resulting in expensive renovation. 
Our new kitchen will have oak benchtops that screw off.  
In 7 years, off come the tops and doors and in goes new kitchen.

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## autogenous

Im not looking forward to jackhammering our tiled floors up. 
Never will we have tiles again.  All very replaceable floating floor boards.
Easy to replace at half the cost of ripping contemporary floor tiles up.

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## METRIX

> Im not looking forward to jackhammering our tiled floors up. 
> Never will we have tiles again. All very replaceable floating floor boards.
> Easy to replace at half the cost of ripping contemporary floor tiles up.

  Just sell the house and move, that's what I do  :Biggrin:

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## OBBob

> Just sell the house and move, that's what I do

  Lol... same with me but I need a break.

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## ChocDog

Cheers Metrix and Bob - mighty appreciate that. Both look good but, at least based on pics, am leaning towards OBBobs Highgrove one. Need to go and check them out. Again, cheers guys.   

> I have one from Highgrove. You need to check they are fully enclosed, some are open at the back where it meets the wall. This isn't.    Eva Freestanding Bath 1500mm | Highgrove Bathrooms

   

> Caroma CUBE, OHHHHH Phil is going to have coronary CUBE Square AHHHHHHHH  https://www.caroma.com.au/bathrooms/...estanding-bath

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## OBBob

> Cheers Metrix and Bob - mighty appreciate that. Both look good but, at least based on pics, am leaning towards OBBobs Highgrove one. Need to go and check them out. Again, cheers guys.

  Looking forward to an update on your place at some stage!

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## OBBob

> ... leaning towards OBBobs Highgrove one...

  So this is now installed. I has a welded stainless steel frame around which is is formed. There are four adjustable legs to level it. I'm not a bath person but my wife says it's comfortable and stays much warmer than any of our previous baths.

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## ChocDog

> Looking forward to an update on your place at some stage!

  Yeah, me too! I'll get some photos up at some stage... 
Re bath, we're leaning towards the one Metrix used (the Caroma Cube and matching basin).

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## pharmaboy2

So nothing better to do with my time, so here's a bath photo (think it's somewhere else on this forum as well)   
In main bathroom, here's one of those dastardly hung vanities  - mass produced item as well   
And the most important room in the house (forum discussions etc) - onky ever close the lid for visitors and photos

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## toooldforthis

Toilet lid needs reseating 
I wouldn't like to step out of that bath!!  :Yikes2:

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## METRIX

> Toilet lid needs reseating

  I was going to say the same thing  :Biggrin:  
Whats the black thing on the vanity, is it a handle or a hole, can't work it out. 
The rooms look good, I like the floor tiles

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## pharmaboy2

> I was going to say the same thing  
> Whats the black thing on the vanity, is it a handle or a hole, can't work it out. 
> The rooms look good, I like the floor tiles

  its a routed out handle painted black on the inside.  Eagles plumbing plus for vanity and the basin I think.   
Edit, actually metrix I think it's a cutout with a black panel on the inside. 
toilet will be fixed - possible design fault not anticipating fat @@@@ descending on it.  I only put it in for my own amusement (the picture that is) 
toooldforthis, there's a full tread to stand on when getting out, but more importantly, the missus can sit there and the window ledge is wide enough for a champagne glass and you can see the distant ocean from inside the bath (much measuring and posturing was done with the carpenters to figure out how high we could get that bath so the wife could see out).

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