# Forum Home Renovation Heating & Cooling  Fuel for Ethanol fireplace

## Angel13

Hi I'm not sure if I've posted in the right section.  
I just bought myself a 3 burner ethanol fireplace this week from eBay (very pretty) and am now looking to buy some ethanol for it. I learned tonight that ethanol is the same as methylated spirits. The best I can find is $3.25 per litre at bunnings. 
That seems a bit on the expensive side considering I would need about 2.5 litres to fill up the 3 burners and they say buring time is about 3 hours. 
Do you know if I can get it cheaper anywhere else? 
If that's the cheapest is it easy to make your own methylated spirits?  Is it legal?

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## ubeaut

You can't make it yourself. 
Cheapest way to buy it is in bulk it costs approx $2 per litre for 200 litres wholesale for 100% Ethanol. Just supplied 200 litres to my son in-law's father for one of those fires. A lesser grade of Ethanol will be cheaper but probably not by a lot.  
You should be able to buy 100% Ethanol and add around 40% water to it which is what some metho in supermarkets is. It only has to burn to be legal and burns with around 40% water in it. Probably won't burn too hot and the steam coming from the water could stuff the fireplace. 
Cheers - Neil  :Biggrin:  
PS I buy 1000 litres at a time and it still costs $2 per litre.

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## Angel13

> You can't make it yourself. 
> Cheapest way to buy it is in bulk it costs approx $2 per litre for 200 litres wholesale for 100% Ethanol. Just supplied 200 litres to my son in-law's father for one of those fires. A lesser grade of Ethanol will be cheaper but probably not by a lot.  
> You should be able to buy 100% Ethanol and add around 40% water to it which is what some metho in supermarkets is. It only has to burn to be legal and burns with around 40% water in it. Probably won't burn too hot and the steam coming from the water could stuff the fireplace. 
> Cheers - Neil  
> PS I buy 1000 litres at a time and it still costs $2 per litre.

  Hi Neil, 
So where do I go to buy it for $2 per litre? Can I buy some from you? I'm in Canberra, where are you? 
I assume I can use the 100% ethanol in the fireplace without mixing it with water? Will that burn for longer? Or do you recommend I mix it with 40% water?

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## Moondog55

Industrial alcohol
Email CSR and ask who in your area has it in stock. Reochem should be in your area. just be aware that when buying in bulk you also usually have to pay for the container as well, $3- a litre sounds about right BTW

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## Bloss

Adding water is to make it safer to use - the flash point of 'pure' ethanol of ~96% is only ~17 degrees, so room temperature and below. A 40% mix of ethanol & water will have a flash point of around 26 degrees.

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## Johning

Firstly: I have no expertise in this area so I might be totally wrong, but I think that there are strict regulations regarding the transport and storage of methylated spirits. I considered buying a methylated fuelled heater a few years back and while I was researching them on the internet I noticed a faq on one of the heater supplier's web site which outlined the storage of methylated spirit in a domestic environment. Unfortunately I cannot find the site and cannot remember the details but I do remember that the amount of methylated spirit that could be stored was quite small and made the use of one of these heaters impractical for all but low duty use.
I have googled the internet for the regulations but I can only find indirect information. e.g.  http://www.lifesavingvictoria.com.au...Guidelines.pdf  http://www.agar.com.au/site/files/ul...01/1804309.pdf 
If I understand correctly: If you want to store more than 20 litres of fuel you need to store according to AS 1940 and you need a licence to store over 100 litres. 
I do not have access to AS 1940 
It would be useful if an expert in this field or anyone with access to AS 1940 could comment on this thread and supply us with accurate information regarding the storage of methylated spirits in a domestic environment.

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## Bloss

These ethanol burners are neither eco friendly nor very efficient ways to heat space - they are a greenwash fad and expensive to run. Flames look pretty though . . .

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## watson

:What he said: 
My lady bought one.................absolutely bloody useless.............looks pretty................fuel expensive...........a total WOFTAM

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## Angel13

Yep they're very pretty and yep that's about it. 
I got Diggers methylated spirits from Bunnings for $12 for 4 lires so that works out at $3.00 per litre. I tested the burning time last night - 1.5 litres (0.5 litre x 3 burners) lasted 2 hours and 5 minutes. So that's $2.25 per hour (pretty expensive) and it doesn't produce a lot of heat.  
I read somewhere that if you use 96% pure ethanol 0.5 litre should burn for 4 hours. There are other things called fire gels. I don't know what theses are or where to buy them from even to try it so I will need to do more investigation. 
I wouldn't buy an ethanol fireplace for practical purposes but it is so gorgeous and I don't regret buying it as I only paid $349 (delivered) from an eBay store. Did I already mention how pretty there are  :Sneaktongue: .  If I paid a couple thousand it would be a different matter. 
ubeaut, where have you disappeared to? May I please buy some ethanol from you at $2 per litre????

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## Random Username

You'd probably have to collect it from Geelong...  New Page 0 
(Edit...Gee I love how the automatic link title retrieve works soooooooo well...not.  The one time I think it'll work...sigh...here's one done manually...)  www.ubeaut.com.au/contact.htm 
(And...$349 for a heater that doesn't heat and costs a couple a' bucks an hour to look at?  Am I missing something???)

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## Angel13

> You'd probably have to collect it from Geelong...  New Page 0 
> (Edit...Gee I love how the automatic link title retrieve works soooooooo well...not.  The one time I think it'll work...sigh...here's one done manually...)  www.ubeaut.com.au/contact.htm 
> (And...$349 for a heater that doesn't heat and costs a couple a' bucks an hour to look at?  Am I missing something???)

  Thanks for the link.  
Yeah one of us is missing something and it's probably me lol   :Doh:  But I don't care, I'd do it again. As it turns out ambiance is really important to me.

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## Angel13

> Firstly: I have no expertise in this area so I might be totally wrong, but I think that there are strict regulations regarding the transport and storage of methylated spirits. I considered buying a methylated fuelled heater a few years back and while I was researching them on the internet I noticed a faq on one of the heater supplier's web site which outlined the storage of methylated spirit in a domestic environment. Unfortunately I cannot find the site and cannot remember the details but I do remember that the amount of methylated spirit that could be stored was quite small and made the use of one of these heaters impractical for all but low duty use.
> I have googled the internet for the regulations but I can only find indirect information. e.g.  http://www.lifesavingvictoria.com.au...Guidelines.pdf  http://www.agar.com.au/site/files/ul...01/1804309.pdf 
> If I understand correctly: If you want to store more than 20 litres of fuel you need to store according to AS 1940 and you need a licence to store over 100 litres. 
> I do not have access to AS 1940 
> It would be useful if an expert in this field or anyone with access to AS 1940 could comment on this thread and supply us with accurate information regarding the storage of methylated spirits in a domestic environment.

  I'd like some more information on this also if anyone here knows what the requirements are. 
I've been looking into getting cheaper ethanol and have found a place in Brisbane called Solchem who supply it in 20, 200 and 1000 containers. I have emailed them for a quote today. I can let you know what they come back with if you are interested. 
Angel

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## Random Username

Yeah, I think it's as little as 100 liters before you've got to do all the correct storage and signage stuff.  WorkCover Authority of New South Wales - Storage and handling of dangerous goods   (Metho is class 3) 
Also note that a 200 liter drum will weigh some 200 kg so you'll need handling equipment or a chiropractor on speed dial!  (the drums also roll away real easy and are really, really hard to stop on a slope!!!) 
So you can add another $2-300 for something that will let you move it off a trailer without dusting off the forklift! Drum Handling Ballarat- drum lifter - dollies - drum handling equipment - load skates - drum truck - drum tipper - drum dolly - drum lifter - Ballarat, ararat, horsham, stawell, maryborough, hamilton, colac, warrnambool, portland 
You'd really better like the ambiance!!! 
(an air blower, some silk in flame-ish shapes and some red/yellow LEDs to fake the effect, perhaps?) 
Actually, my stroke of genius is - buy an old plasma TV of appropriate size and play a looped recording of the actual heater!  It'll look the same and probably put out more heat than the real heater!!!!! (in fact you can already buy fireplace DVDs!!! - Fireplace DVDs  )

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## Johning

> I'd like some more information on this also if anyone here knows what the requirements are. 
> Angel

  Found this on the quoted URL  Ecosmart Facts 
STORAGE AND HANDLING
Bio ethanol is classified as a Flammable Liquid Class 1B (for Flammability) and Class 3 PGII (for Transportation) and is regulated by various standards around the world.
You must familiarise yourself and comply with these regulations in order to safely and legally store, handle, decant and use this fuel.
Also check with your insurer and/or owner's corporation to see what limits you have on how much fuel you can store.  :Confused:

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## Moondog55

Tell this to all the farmers out here with a couple of 44s full of diesel in the back and I have done the same thing myself with a full 44 of super when driving outback. More self serving government BS

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## Random Username

I think it's not necessarily self serving, but more of a courtesy to fire fighters so they can make an informed 'is it safe to go inside?' or '400 liters of flammables in drums...lets just hose it from a good long distance and hope it doesn't take out the house next door if the drums blow!' decision.

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## watson

And then they invented HAZCHEM and FLAMMABLE LIQUID signs  :Rotfl:

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## Moondog55

It's *"NEVER"* safe to go inside, even with BA and a rope LOL 
But I do get your point.
I should put a sign on my shed saying  *"Just let it burn"*

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## Johning

> Tell this to all the farmers out here with a couple of 44s full of diesel in the back and I have done the same thing myself with a full 44 of super when driving outback. More self serving government BS

  To complicate the matter further, farmers, who live in a "rural place" as defined below have their own set of rules.  _A rural place means a place: 
(a) that has an area of 5 ha or more; and
(b) used by its occupier for agricultual, horticultual, floricultural, aquacultural or pastoral purposes; and
© at which there are no stated dangerous goods or combustible liquids being stored for resale. 
The Code of Practice for the Use of Farm Chemicals published by the DWHS is applicable to rural places._  *Warning: I don't know the regulations. Anyone intending to use one of these fires needs to do their own research.*

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