# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Night lighting for elderly.

## LinesElectrical

I have an elderly client who needs to navigate a large home several times a night the property has little light penetration from outside influences and they currently use rechargeable garden lamps strategically placed around the home to provide night lighting.  
I have been given the task of installing a lighting system that has a switch next to the bed and then lights placed throughout the home to replace the previously mentioned garden lights.  
I have done some research and discovered I need both horizontal and vertical lighting cues in an ideal lighting setup. I Am unsure of the best way to achieve this I have decided to use 12v elv downlights because of the descreet design and easy Instalation I'm hoping the shadowing would give me the Horizontal shadowing described in the lighting design guides.   
Has anyone had any sutch setups installed or have any constructive ideas on lighting types (led and cfl are not options as it needs to be bright instantly and is only for intermittent use.)

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## watson

Boy...........you get all the good jobs don't ya.
I'll watch with interest

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## Bros

> I'll watch with interest

  Why do you think you will need some soon? :Biggrin:

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## watson

Stumble ...grope....mumble..... stumble

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## Moondog55

How much illumination does the client will need?
I was unaware of any real delay with LED lighting and have not experienced any delay longer than 3 - 8 milliseconds with any we have.
Will watch with interest as my parents need something similar, at the moment they use a couple of plug in 1watt LED nite-lites in the hallway and bathroom/toilet

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## goldie1

> (led and cfl are not options as it needs to be bright instantly and is only for intermittent use.)

  Why not led? I have them under my deck rails and outside stair rails for safety instead of putting on the main lights. They don't 
have any delay. You wouldn't want them too bright instantly as it would be blinding for some one who is in the dark.

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## SilentButDeadly

I'd go for LED strip lighting (basically a string of SMD mounted LEDS mounted into an aluminium extrusion) either just above the skirting board or on the bottom edge of the cornice.  The punter either turns them on or they come on automatically using a sensor.  The light itself is indirect and just a bit muted compared to normal room lighting so that it doesn't completely wreck night vision or disturb circadian rythmns any more that they already are... 
Something like whats on display here LED ribbon, lightbars and strips : LEDsales. LEDs, LED products and other cool stuff.

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## LinesElectrical

Ok I suspected the heat on the led situation, the reason for led not being an option is the fact they are not that great of an option considering the variables, cost of deployment astronomical compared to a standard 35watt halogen running costs are not an issue might get five teen or twenty minuites use per day. 
(35*5=175watt / 1000= .175kw/h and 1.5hour per week 1.75*1.5=2.625kwh per week * .28cents = .74cents pw or $38.22 per year. 
Decent comparable pierlight led's cost $80 vs $13 for halogen therefore there is a payback cost of $335 assuming the led use no power at all that's about 8.7 years. I'm afraid the client might not be there in 8.7 years.
plus Quality led lights use either 0-10volt dimmers or pulse dimming which can be confusing and expensive. 
If anyone is interested I downloaded the AS/NZS  1680.2 and I need approx 40lux.
and the building code states class one buildings should use no more than 5w per m2 
ive got about 35meters to light up so I think it's pretty sweet. 
It was more of an asthetics question in reality I was hoping someone had seen something similar done and could point out potential problems. 
I have considered strip led lighting but it's hard to convince them to pay and the residence is double brick no cavity so it's gonna get ugly if I go down that road.

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## Moondog55

Extruded Aluminium Channel for LED Strips - Jaycar Electronics  Diffuser Strip for Aluminium Extrusion HH-8535 - Jaycar Electronics  Super bright LED Strip for ST-3183 - Jaycar Electronics  12VDC SMD LED Light Strips - White - Jaycar Electronics
Add in a power supply + $400- for enough power to run a battle ship 
Not cheap all up but not expensive either and your labour will be a far greater cost to the client anyway you look at it,

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## iconnect

Could you use a couple of Nelson GU10 downlights (ES701) with inbuilt sensor (around $35) and pop in a 20w lamp so they are not too bright. I've used something similar in hallways and pantry's and they are a pretty cost effective way to automate simple lighting.
I have also used a mini sensor (house watch or homesafe with a 30mm cutout) and mounted directly above light switch, although you need an auto/man/off switch as they don't have the quick on/off override like normal sensors. Also had success with HPM light switch with integrated sensor if the switch is in a good position.

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## chrisp

> Ok I suspected the heat on the led situation, the reason for led not being an option is the fact they are not that great of an option considering the variables, cost of deployment astronomical compared to a standard 35watt halogen running costs are not an issue might get five teen or twenty minuites use per day. 
> (35*5=175watt / 1000= .175kw/h and 1.5hour per week 1.75*1.5=2.625kwh per week * .28cents = .74cents pw or $38.22 per year.

  35*5=175 Watt / 1000= 0.175 kW and 1.5 hour per week 0.175 * 1.5= 0.2625 kWh per week * .28 cents = $0.074  pw or $3.82 per year.   :Fixed:    :Smilie:

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## watson

Even though they may not be what you need in this case..................I'm just posting these people as an option for strip leds  Search Results Page

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## chrisp

Could you just replace the existing light switches with those switch-movement-sensor switches instead and just have the existing room lights come on automatically when someone walks in? 
You may need a different arrangement for the bedroom.

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## LinesElectrical

> 35*5=175 Watt / 1000= 0.175 kW and 1.5 hour per week 0.175 * 1.5= 0.2625 kWh per week * .28 cents = $0.074  pw or $3.82 per year.

   The devil is in the detail it did seem high but I was working it out on a napkin at the pub. 
Doesnt really improve the situation thanks thou. 
Would anyone wait 80+ years for LED lights to pay for themself?  
And thanks Darryn I've actually got a couple of pdl100cf360 sensors left from annother job they could have ready to go but they just want on or off. 
i do like led strips but they would need to run down a hallway through a dining room through a laundry and illuminate a kitchen, and unfortunately they don't really satisfy the building codes or Australian standards DTS conditions.

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## LinesElectrical

> Could you just replace the existing light switches with those switch-movement-sensor switches instead and just have the existing room lights come on automatically when someone walks in? 
> You may need a different arrangement for the bedroom.

  This is a real option and I have got some sensorswitch brand ones out in the shed somewhere I was put off of this idea because it has archatrave switches in every room, wires under plaster, no neutral, no conduit and I'm doing it all for no charge.

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## Bruiser

If you can get to the lamp, you can get a motion sensor to work.  (Unless you come up against 3 terminals vs 4 terminals in which case I'm staying out of it!!).  I have a beauty above my beer fridge - I walk into the shed and I can walk out with my hands full. 
Another option I use is a remote control gadget from Bunnings.  30 bucks for 3 - they're an inline plug deal with a remote control.  You can program them (incredibly easily) to be on any of 25 channels, or all on one channel.  Great for upstairs - I push the remote and a plug in lamp comes on.  Great value, no fixed wiring and, given the value on your time, you can probably set your customer up with a very flexible arrangement for under 100 bucks. 
This second option also deals with the bedside switch side of things.  You could then go for 100m of LED fairy lights or some other cheapo plug in job.

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## LinesElectrical

Thanks bruser those are great ideas, the particular sensors chrisp mentioned replace the existing wall switch but require a neutral wire to work. 
I fortunately can afford to be a little generous to this client as I get free childcare in return and fixed wiring is my day job so that's not an issue. 
The bit that has me a bit puzzled was every manual relating to this area speaks of both vertical and horizontal lighting to help with balance and awareness.

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## watson

> The bit that has me a bit puzzled was every manual relating to this area speaks of both vertical and horizontal lighting to help with balance and awareness.

  I can maybe throw a little bit of light on that (sorry)
I'm not old....69..........but, we have three red lights that remain on all night...........the telephone system..........the computer system..............and sometimes if we forget....the television.
So, if I awake for a nocturnal....and without another light on.......I don't know which way to go to find the door.
I think its 'cos they are all the same colour and about the same height off the floor.......that they give me no indication of what is where...and which way to go.
Dunno.......but I think the lights you are going to install must give those indications.

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## LinesElectrical

Yeah makes that makes sense I am hoping an illuminated switch within reach above an illuminated alarm clock should do the trick then.

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