# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Recommendations for LED dimmable downlights please

## elina2802

Hi everyone! I'm getting quite overwhelmed with all the different choices and brands for down lights. I would welcome any recommendations for LED dimmable downlights in warm white please. Also, would people generally recommend 70mm or 90mm downlights? Thanks so much!

----------


## phild01

If there is no above ceiling access then 90mm is preferred. Interested in any you find that have the genuine warm glow of an incandescent.

----------


## elina2802

> If there is no above ceiling access then 90mm is preferred. Interested in any you find that have the genuine warm glow of an incandescent.

  There will be above ceiling access as they are replacing nearly everything due to fire, so my electrician asked if I wanted 70mm or 90mm. He said that 70mm generally looks nicer...do you agree?

----------


## phild01

Not sure if they look better, maybe.  What bugs me about downlights is the limited spread of light from a single bright point, in this respect the bigger the light, the less offensive that is IMO.  In my living area I made sure one bank of downlights can operate outside my field of vision, so directly above or behind seating positions.

----------


## JB1

I used this previously http://wattsaver.com.au/dl7-1400 and was happy with the result. 
The beam angle was quite good at 60degs. 
They also have a 90mm version. 
When you buy the LEDs, ask the LED manufacturer to recommend a dimmer to suit  
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

----------


## elina2802

Has anyone used Ledlux downlights? Think they are the Beacon brand. They use them on The Block...so wondering if they are really good?

----------


## METRIX

> Has anyone used Ledlux downlights? Think they are the Beacon brand. They use them on The Block...so wondering if they are really good?

  Yep, use them all the time, I like LEDLUXE because they have a 5 year warranty, have not had one recall for a failed unit, have had around 200 installed on various jobs, while this is not a massive number, it's enough to convince me they work fine. 
Beam angle is 150deg, so massive even spread of light, 70 or 90mm is up to you, we usually go for the 90mm versions.    
Beacon currently have them on sale.  Search results for: 'ledluxe downlight'

----------


## Bigboboz

We used Ledluxe in our place, 3 different types.  Forget the models (proton, maxi and something) but happy with the colour quality in warm white.  Beacon lighting have them on display but it's hard to tell the colour quality with all the other lights in the shop. 
We have them on c-bus dimmers and they're pretty good, mostly have a smooth transition but hold a steady brightness except at very low brightness.  We went with pretty tight beams but more downlights to minimise glare, happy with the results.  The theory is, wide spread beams lead to glare which can make your eyes tired.  Or you run the lights darker which isn't our preference. 
Rob

----------


## elina2802

> We used Ledluxe in our place, 3 different types.  Forget the models (proton, maxi and something) but happy with the colour quality in warm white.  Beacon lighting have them on display but it's hard to tell the colour quality with all the other lights in the shop. 
> We have them on c-bus dimmers and they're pretty good, mostly have a smooth transition but hold a steady brightness except at very low brightness.  We went with pretty tight beams but more downlights to minimise glare, happy with the results.  The theory is, wide spread beams lead to glare which can make your eyes tired.  Or you run the lights darker which isn't our preference. 
> Rob

  Thanks, I went to Beacon and liked the look of these as they look quite flush to have throughout the apartment but not sure how to decipher the technical specs. Do you think these would be suitable? LEDlux City II Adjustable LED White Dimmable Downlight in Warm White

----------


## elina2802

> Yep, use them all the time, I like LEDLUXE because they have a 5 year warranty, have not had one recall for a failed unit, have had around 200 installed on various jobs, while this is not a massive number, it's enough to convince me they work fine. 
> Beam angle is 150deg, so massive even spread of light, 70 or 90mm is up to you, we usually go for the 90mm versions.    
> Beacon currently have them on sale.  Search results for: 'ledluxe downlight'

  Thanks, why do you generally choose the 90mm? Is that for look or functionality? I would have thought the 70mm would be more subtle?

----------


## phild01

Maybe because when installing you can get your hand through a 90mm hole to place things!

----------


## elina2802

> Maybe because when installing you can get your hand through a 90mm hole to place things!

  Oh I see, it's easier to install!

----------


## elina2802

Has anyone used 3A lighting downlights? My electrician told me he uses these. Apparently LEDlux doesn't come in 70mm (only 92mm) and I'm leaning towards the 70mm so they are less obvious

----------


## METRIX

> Thanks, why do you generally choose the 90mm? Is that for look or functionality? I would have thought the 70mm would be more subtle?

  90 is easier for the electricians to work with, although I like the look of the 70

----------


## METRIX

> . Apparently LEDlux doesn't come in 70mm (only 92mm) and I'm leaning towards the 70mm so they are less obvious

  LEDlux Tone Mini 8W Gimble Downlight Kit in White with Warm White | Downlights | Lighting

----------


## Bigboboz

Downlights aren't that noticeable IMO, not that fussed on what they look like.  Then again we have 3.4m ceilings so they're not close! 
Choosing lights is kind of frustrating, there's a lot advice but it comes down to personal preference.  We bought one of each we thought of using and tried them in the house.  They have a standard power plug, so grabbed an extension lead and a ladder. 
They apparently would accept them back if we weren't happy but we didn't test that.

----------


## elina2802

> LEDlux Tone Mini 8W Gimble Downlight Kit in White with Warm White | Downlights | Lighting

  Thank you, I rang Beacon and these ones are discontinued Apparently they will only be selling the LEDlux City II white dimmable in adjustable 90mm going forward.

----------


## elina2802

I've just some more research and a few lighting shops have told me Sunny is a good brand to get for downlights. I've scrapped the adjustable component requirement. Has anyone used the S9040 (70mm) or S9041 (90mm) Ecogem? Wondering if 10W, 700 lumens and 90 degree beam would be recommended?  S9040 | led downlights

----------


## phild01

Sunny is a good brand,

----------


## elina2802

> Sunny is a good brand,

  Thanks. I have one more question as I've come across two more brands (Premium and Brightgreen) that have nice looking LED downlights and was told they are more mid-high quality vs Sunny who they said are low-mid. Has anyone had any experience or recommendations with the Premium and Brightgreen downlights?

----------


## Smurf

> 700 lumens

  To put that in perspective, that's the about same amount of light that an old 60 Watt incandescent bulb produces.

----------


## elina2802

> To put that in perspective, that's the about same amount of light that an old 60 Watt incandescent bulb produces.

  Would you say that is too low? Is it better to do fewer downlights with higher wattage and lumens?

----------


## Smurf

> Would you say that is too low? Is it better to do fewer downlights with higher wattage and lumens?

  Not necessarily, it really depends on the layout. 
More lights = more cost to install and more to maintain in the long term but may give a better result in terms of light distribution, avoiding shadows etc. 
I mentioned the comparison to a 60W bulb simply because that's something that just about everyone can relate to whereas a value in lumens will be meaningless in itself to many. 
For another comparison, a 36W fluoro tube is about 3000 lumens.

----------


## Ozcar

> I've just some more research and a few lighting shops have told me Sunny is a good brand to get for downlights. I've scrapped the adjustable component requirement. Has anyone used the S9040 (70mm) or S9041 (90mm) Ecogem? Wondering if 10W, 700 lumens and 90 degree beam would be recommended?  S9040 | led downlights

  We replaced around 20 incandescent reflector down lights with warm white Sunny S9041s. The existing holes were bigger than 90mm so we used adapter plates. At the time I looked around to see if I could find LEDs that would fit without adapters (and without making the holes bigger), but I could not find any other than some dodgy looking ones on Ebay. 
 They are perhaps a little brighter than the 60W incandescents they replaced. Some people say these sort of lights produce too much glare, but we are just simple folk and they are fine for us. 
 About 8 of them are on dimmers. Sunny recommended trailing-edge dimmers, and we replaced the existing dimmers with ones made by Sunny. They work fine on the dimmers, but can't be dimmed all the way down, as you can often do with incandescents. 
 Some are used a lot every day, but a few of them, are hardly used at all. In the two years we have had them, none have failed.

----------


## Cuppa

Beam spread (angle) is also worth considering too. All of ours are 180 degree spread. Many are 120 degree (or less). Wider spread better for ‘area lighting’ rather than ‘spotlights’  
We bought our dimmable/ colour changing downlights from an ebay seller who has a bricks & mortar shop & are very happy with the product. Also bought some non dimmable ones. 
Prices are good & he will negotiate better prices if buying in ‘bulk’  - phone Kevin. (We bought 16 & got a little knocked of the unit price & free shipping).He will also advise on required spacing for your application. We followed this & found it to be good advice.  If pursuing this I suggest you check out his range on eBay & then give him a ring. I bought on the basis of a recommendation from a friend who bought from him 3 years ago.   Lighting Store items - Get great deals on LED COB Down light Kits, Dimmable Donwlights items on eBay Stores!  I have no connection other than as a customer happy with the products & service
90mm are essential if the only access for replacement is from underneath the ceiling unless you have unusually tiny hands. 
If interested you can check out a short video I made of the dimming/colour changing by downloading it from https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ca4wgbl09..._8159.MOV?dl=0     75Mb.

----------


## OBBob

> Yep, use them all the time, I like LEDLUXE because they have a 5 year warranty, have not had one recall for a failed unit, have had around 200 installed on various jobs, while this is not a massive number, it's enough to convince me they work fine. 
> Beam angle is 150deg, so massive even spread of light, 70 or 90mm is up to you, we usually go for the 90mm versions.    
> Beacon currently have them on sale.  Search results for: 'ledluxe downlight'

  Bumping an old thread. Downlights have come a long way since I've had to purchase full units. Many look they are fully contained (you don't change globes like a regular downlight). So how are they connected and does it mean you need and electrician if one pops?  
My sparky has run cables in the ceiling and I was planning to purchase the hardware for him to install... but I'm a bit dazzled by the options.

----------


## Cuppa

Hi OBB,
My downlights (both the remote controlled ones & the fixed colour/non dimmable types) are wired the same by the sparky. Just a separate non switchable power point for each light. The lights are supplied with the 'ballast', & it's the type of ballast which makes the light dimmable or not dimmable. The ballast plugs into the power point & the light fitting plugs into the ballast. So once the power points are installed the light installation iself is DIY. 
EDIT.  Proper term for 'ballast' is 'driver'   :Smilie:

----------


## phild01

Buy LED's that are wired with a normal 240 plug.  Easy if your wiring was done with sockets, and if not then best to have sockets wired in.

----------


## OBBob

> Hi OBB,
> My downlights (both the remote controlled ones & the fixed colour/non dimmable types) are wired the same by the sparky. Just a separate non switchable power point for each light. The lights are supplied with the 'ballast', & it's the type of ballast which makes the light dimmable or not dimmable. The ballast plugs into the power point & the light fitting plugs into the ballast. So once the power points are installed the light installation iself is DIY.

  Oh ok... so he'll need to add PowerPoint's like used for the ceiling fan. Fair enough. Thanks!

----------


## METRIX

> Bumping an old thread. Downlights have come a long way since I've had to purchase full units. Many look they are fully contained (you don't change globes like a regular downlight). So how are they connected and does it mean you need and electrician if one pops?  
> My sparky has run cables in the ceiling and I was planning to purchase the hardware for him to install... but I'm a bit dazzled by the options.

  Correct, the new units are sealed, and therefore can't change the globes, if they fail replace the lot. 
The LED Driver is built into the unit, the design of the driver determines if the light is dimmable, the fitting will state the type of dimmer, eg trailing edge, a 240 flex comes out the other end, as Phil said get your sparkie to put single sockets onto the wiring positions, this way you can plug in whichever light you want. 
Socket below, not that you would buy them from Bunnings as they are SOOOO expensive. https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-plug...clear_p7050082 
See below for what an average one looks like now, also if you get a IC or IC-F rated unit, you can safely put your insulation over the top of the light fitting, as long as your insulation is rated to take up to 90 deg without combustion, not that these get to 90 deg, but thats part of the rating requirements.   
.

----------


## Cuppa

Most I've seen have a separate driver so that either the lamp unit, the driver or both can be changed.  
Like this

----------


## OBBob

Thanks ... yes, I just have the 240v flex hanging out of the ceiling at present ... probably because I hadn't yet specified the fitting to be used.

----------


## METRIX

> Most I've seen have a separate driver so that either the lamp unit, the driver or both can be changed.  
> Like this

  That's why it's good to buy a decent brand with long warranty, with the driver built in, no chances of an underpowered driver, although those ones you pointed to have a 3 year warranty which is good.

----------


## Cuppa

> That's why it's good to buy a decent brand with long warranty, with the driver built in, no chances of an underpowered driver, although those ones you pointed to have a 3 year warranty which is good.

  Yes a decent warranty gives peace of mind. I've been 'playing' with LED's for around a decade in motorhomes/RV's & have tried & built) many, & have learned to look for quality after quite a few which have failed, caused radio interference etc.  That link was just a pic I found on the net to show the separate driver,  the ones I bought (& linked to in post #25) have a 5 year warranty & I bought them having had them recommended by a friend who had had them in his house for over two years without problem or failure.

----------


## METRIX

> . I've been 'playing' with LED's for around a decade & have tried many, & have learned to look for quality after quite a few which have failed, caused radio interference etc..

  Same here, I had some really bad ones which cut TV reception when turned on !!! 
I only buy decent ones now with long warranty, as I couldn't be stuffed mucking around with dodgy brands, causing issues in one way or another.

----------


## phild01

Be aware that some LED lights with inbuilt drivers can have a shorter life of maybe 30,000 instead of 50.000 hours.

----------


## METRIX

> Be aware that some LED lights with inbuilt drivers can have a shorter life of maybe 30,000 instead of 50.000 hours.

  Please Explain, is this an opinion or fact ?  
I have been using quality inbuilt type for years on jobs, no failures yet, LED have a life of 25K to 100K, the life expectancy depends on a lot of factors, for a fitting to be IC or IC-F rated, this would say to me they have the heat factor well and truly under control.

----------


## phild01

> Please Explain, is this an opinion or fact ?  
> I have been using quality inbuilt type for years on jobs, no failures yet, LED have a life of 25K to 100K, the life expectancy depends on a lot of factors, for a fitting to be IC or IC-F rated, this would say to me they have the heat factor well and truly under control.

  I did say 'can',.... now no more scary pics! 
It is a fact that building electronics into confined spaces restricts their ability to dissipate heat for effective long term stability. It's not just the led but other components too like capacitors.  I have seen many led *bulbs* with inbuilt drivers fail prematurely.  At the moment I have one of the newer type plastic *downlights* with an inbuilt driver and it may well be ok, it depends a lot on the components and their quality and it will probably be sometime before I find out.

----------


## Bigboboz

My Ledlux downlights have the driver separate but still wired in, so if one dies, the whole lot is replaced.  Comes with a standard Aus 240v plug, if I need a warranty replacement or want to change them just unplug.

----------


## Ozcar

The Sunny LEDs we got have the drivers separate, and the LEDs can be easily detached  - just loosen two screws to disconnect the wires. So, in theory, depending on what failed, you could replace either the LED or the driver, but as far as I know, they are not sold separately. Even if they are available now, will they be available years down the track when you actually need them? 
 You might be able find other LEDs or drivers that are compatible to mix-and-match (would need to know the current, and voltage range), but would anybody bother?

----------


## phild01

I wouldn't bother replacing the separate parts, just buy what is the best complete.  Funny thing is in the early days there was collusion not to manufacture long-life incandescent globes, yet a good led light should go for 50,000 hours.

----------


## mudbrick

Indeed the quality of incandescent and the later halogen globes has become worse and worse over time, coinciding closely with the move to low cost countries. Funny thing is that was a large part of the reason people were so quick to jump on the CF and LED wagon tk find something that lasts longer than 6 months.
We had an LED downlight installed as a second light in a bathroom. It was claimed to be rated for wet areas so cost extra, about $100 for the 1. We used it on and off for about 3 years before one night leaving it on all night for a sick kid and it failed before daybreak never to work again. So there is some junk out there...

----------


## METRIX

> I did say 'can',.... now no more scary pics! 
> It is a fact that building electronics into confined spaces restricts their ability to dissipate heat for effective long term stability. *lbs* with inbuilt drivers fail prematurely.  A.

  Old School thinking. 
Think about how many electronics are shoved into a mobile phone, or iPad, or the new laptops which are wafer thin such as the HP Spectre at 10.4mm (including the screen) these are running i7, 500Gb SSD and are not a slow machine. 
A simple LED driver can be made very very small with minimal components and designed to withstand heat quite easily. 
Think about a GU10 LED globe, all the electronics are stuffed inside that tiny globe, and any heat from the LED'S will be directed onto the driver, as it sits at the back of the globe.
It's like anything, good design works, poor design fails. 
At my last place, I had some GU10 outdoor lights, I played around with shyte LED globes, got around 3 months or less from them before blowing up.
I found the 5W click brand at bunnings in a 8 pack for $29, thought I would give it a go it was only $29 and there was only 4 outdoor lights. 
These lights used to turn on at 6pm and off at midnight, these globes switched on and off every day for 3 years and not one blew, drove past the other night and saw the new owners, they said they had not changed the globes which will now be 4.5 years they have been in there and they are still going, so as much as some may say they are a shyte brand, they proved to work perfectly well in a confined outdoor enclosure without a problem. 
Interestingly these globes are now $10 for an 8 pack, which is ridiculously cheap for a globe which works, yes they are non dimmable but for outdoor lights who wants that anyway, and they give a decent amount of light. https://www.bunnings.com.au/click-5w...-pack_p4331011

----------


## OBBob

It's only $10 so worth a try ... but I recently grabbed some LED batten globes from Bunnings because they were cheap and was disappointing. The light output was fine but the colour was really yellow (despite lining up with the colour temperature on my other good globes).

----------

