# Forum Home Renovation Tools & Products  Makita vs Bosch Blue Drill... some guidance please

## chalkyt

Have been following the recent threads on this subject but thought I would start a new one so as to not get mixed up with dishwashers, pizza ovens, lawn mowers etc. 
All the good information posted over the past month or so has inspired me to think about getting a new, decent drill driver (Xmas is coming you know!) 
Having wasted lots of money in the past replacing crappy units with yet another crappy unit I am after some advice. The latest "effort" was to drop a green Bosch off a bench to see the chuck separate and roll across the floor. "I can fix that" revealed that the drive shaft and bits that held it together were plastic... not fixable after all. 
So, the rough spec for a new one is 13mm chuck, enough torque to drive batten screws occasionally and up to $300 spend seems reasonable for what I want. I don't think I need an impact driver as well although any thoughts on how useful they are etc would be welcome. Not sure that a hammer function is needed since I already have three corded hammer drills of various sizes. 
As a starting point I have zeroed in on Sydney Tools Makita DDF456SYE at $249 and Bosch GSR Striker II at $269. I understand that Bunnies and Masters sell similar "de-speced" tools a bit cheaper. It seems from recent posts that a bit of inside knowledge about the various models is invaluable since a couple of dollars more can get a better tool.  I simply want something that will do the occasional good job. (I have had enough of Ryobi, followed by Ryobi, followed by Bosch Green, followed by Rockwell, all of which have failed to deliver for one reason or another... could have saved a fortune buying something decent in the first place!  
There also seems to be a bit of a shift in opinion from those who know, towards Bosch Blue and away from Makita. Any strong reasons for this or is it just marginal changes in technology or fashion? 
I am not really inclined to go towards some of the fringe dwellers like Milwaulkee, DeWalt, Hitachi etc simply because they are more towards the pro range of tools or are relative orphans (it seems to me that new skins are relatively cheap so it is a case of get the battery system in place then buy extra skins if you want them). 
So, all wisdom gratefully received.

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## OBBob

LOL ... no comment.          
Well, ok just a little comment. If you are coming from Bosch Green, Ryobi etc. either of those options is going to feel and perform really well IMHO. I have really loved my Makita kit. Metrix has previously had great commercial use out of his Makita (by the sound of it) and is finding Bosch Blue to be even better.  
Enjoy your Christmas!

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## phild01

Not sure if you missed this thread: http://www.renovateforum.com/f216/co...driver-114500/ 
When I got the impact driver with mine, and like you I wondered about how useful it would be,  now...it's a must have.

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## METRIX

> As a starting point I have zeroed in on Sydney Tools Makita DDF456SYE at $249 and Bosch GSR Striker II at $269. I understand that Bunnies and Masters sell similar "de-speced" tools a bit cheaper. It seems from recent posts that a bit of inside knowledge about the various models is invaluable since a couple of dollars more can get a better tool.  I simply want something that will do the occasional good job. (I have had enough of Ryobi, followed by Ryobi, followed by Bosch Green, followed by Rockwell, all of which have failed to deliver for one reason or another... could have saved a fortune buying something decent in the first place!  
> There also seems to be a bit of a shift in opinion from those who know, towards Bosch Blue and away from Makita. Any strong reasons for this or is it just marginal changes in technology or fashion?
>  .

  It really depends on what you are after, Sydney Tools have some good kits in both brands, I am currently moving from Makita LXT to Bosch Blue, simply because I like the Bosch tools better, IMO they are better balanced, higher quality than Makita and better value. 
I had the opportunity to try them for a while and was so impressed that I decided to retire my old Makita's, and replace them with Bosch Blue Brushless, and yes I am purchasing them not being given them for free etc (Although I was allowed to keep the Drill and Impact)  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin: .
I was looking at replacing the Makita for a while and found better tools at better prices, now I just need to work out how to get a Bosch battery into my Makita Digital Site Radio, or convert it to 240V (both should be easy enough, and get a Bosch battery onto my Makita Blower and I will be set  :2thumbsup: , as these are two things Bosch don't make, and I can't do without Gorilla Digital, can not go back to Analogue FM :Biggrin: . 
My Makita LXT have been good tools, but are now lacking in power and run time compared to the new breed of tools, the new LXT did not offer anything more than my current LXT, not that there's anything wrong with the current LXT these are still nice tools. 
Not sure about Milwalkee, Dewalt, Hitachi being Pro tools, the Makita and Bosch Blue are the two main tools I see used by all the trades, pro tools would be Festool, the other mentioned brands are all trade orientated tools. 
If you have not had an impact before, all I can say is to get one and you will wonder how you did without it, these are the most versatile drill you can have, for screwing anything in, be it square, Philips, Batten, roofing screws it will do it all, and with no fuss, they are small, light and very powerful. 
If you are looking at Bosch the following kits would be good, and are only just over your $300 budget but will leave your other cheapo things in the dust, it would be nice to go Brushless motors, you will pay more and will gain more run time between charges, can use a smaller capacity battery to get run times of a non brushless motor with higher capacity battery, but if your not using it all day everyday then this is un necessary. 
One thing that I don't like about some of the Sydney Tools Bosch kits, they bundle 3 x 1.3A batteries, I would prefer 2 x 2.0A or 2 x 2.6A (same price) as you will get more run time, if you speak to them they should be able to swap them out, as they assemble the kits from parts, for example 3 x 1.3A is $147, 2 x 2.6A $138, I would take the 2 x 2.6A any day over the 3 x 1.3A especially if your not going brushless. 
Saying that, the below kit would be my choice for Bosch if you don't want a hammer cordless, you get the Striker drill, an Impact driver, 3 x 1.3A, 60min charger and carry box, plus a coupon for 2 x 2.0A batteries for free, this is a bargain at $329 with free shipping  https://sydneytools.com.au/bosch-com...pact-combo-kit 
The only thing you would need to check, if both the impact and drill fit in the box at the same time, as bosch have the L-BOXX 136 overseas which does this, but out here the boxes I have seen take one or the other in the box at once. 
The below kit is the equivalent Makita one, you only get 2 x 1.3A battery, slow charger and no additional 2.0A battery, as is common with Makita you pay more for less which is another reason why I am switching to Bosch, IMO if you are looking at 18V the Bosch Blue kit above is the one to buy now while the free battery deal is on.  https://sydneytools.com.au/makita-dl...less-combo-kit

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## phild01

> One thing that I don't like about some of the Sydney Tools Bosch kits, they bundle 3 x 1.3A batteries, I would prefer 2 x 2.0A or 2 x 2.6A (same price) as you will get more run time, if you speak to them they should be able to swap them out, as they assemble the kits from parts, for example 3 x 1.3A is $147, 2 x 2.6A $138, I would take the 2 x 2.6A any day over the 3 x 1.3A especially if your not going brushless.

  Seldom would I disagree with Metrix but this is one thing I will.  3 batteries are a must no matter what.  Using a drill and impact driver together leaves no room for a spare charged battery if with only 2 batteries.  Definitely prefer higher current batteries but not at the expense of having a spare at hand.  1.3A for occasional use will suffice.  Battery goes flat you just swap out for the standby battery and put the flat on a half hour charge and you never get caught short. 
That Bosch with 5 batteries, wow that is a whopping good deal, can that be right!

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## METRIX

> Seldom would I disagree with Metrix but this is one thing I will.  3 batteries are a must no matter what.  Using a drill and impact driver together leaves no room for a spare charged battery if with only 2 batteries.  Definitely prefer higher current batteries but not at the expense of having a spare at hand.  1.3A for occasional use will suffice.  Battery goes flat you just swap out for the standby battery and put the flat on a half hour charge and you never get caught short.

  I agree, and is why I will always have as many batteries as the box will hold (usually three) but if you buy the current Bosch kit you will get 5 batteries, can't say no to that for a DIY user, HA HA HA HA 
Also if you have a fast charger, while your setting up it will charge your batteries before you know it. 
And if you have a battery LED indicator (which the Bosch do Makita don't) remember Makita more $ for less, it gives you a quick idea what's going on inside the mysterious black box, so you know to put the little fella on the charger when you go to lunch, after all he needs energy to keep going as well LOL.

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## phild01

> And if you have a battery LED indicator (which the Bosch do Makita don't) remember Makita more $ for less, it gives you a quick idea what's going on inside the mysterious black box, so you know to put the little fella on the charger when you go to lunch, after all he needs energy to keep going as well LOL.

  AEG has it and my next set better have it as well :Smilie:

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## OBBob

Hey! Makita do have Led battery indicator... very useful.

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## METRIX

> Hey! Makita do have Led battery indicator... very useful.

  On the tool or the battery ?

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## phild01

AEG on the battery.

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## OBBob

On the tool...      
... ducks for cover.

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## METRIX

> On the tool...  
>  ... ducks for cover.

  AHHHHH Yes, the old indicator on the tool problem, must buy a new tool to get that feature (smart Makita buy buy buy $$$) actually must buy ALL new Makita tools to get that feature for all tools (very sneaky Makita), the others put it on the battery so no new tool required to know how much energy he has  :Biggrin:

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## ringtail

Bosch blue all day long. Love my gear. Bought a GSR 18 lithium to replace my older GSR 14.4 v. Magic drill. Came with 2x 2.6  batteries. It's now 4.5 years old and I have put 3 sets of brushes in it. Later got an impact driver skin and modified the box to carry both drill and impact driver. Very rarely will I run out of battery power even when decking. The fast charger is the quickest in the business that I have seen. Dropped my impact driver 4 times from some very high trusses this week. 4-5 mt fall, no problems at all. A better belt clip is the only thing needed. Other than that bosch blue gear is faultless IMO.

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## OBBob

Ha ha,  yes I can see the advantage of having it on the battery. However,  on the flip side (remembering I'm no full time builder) I have older Makita tools as well and having it on the tool means I can also check how much charge is in the batteries that pre-dated that feature.  
The talk about how much for what you get comes and goes too. A couple of years ago I'm sure Bosch Blue were consistently above the price of Makita.  
Anyway, I'm just debating it for the fun of it. Having a set of tools that are at this level has been a joy having also had cheapies in the past.

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## METRIX

> Bosch blue all day long. Love my gear. Bought a GSR 18  Dropped my impact driver 4 times from some very high trusses this week. 4-5 mt fall, no problems at all. A better belt clip is the only thing needed. Other than that bosch blue gear is faultless IMO.

  GSR is an Awesome Drill, as is the GDX 18 Impact, and the GLI18 Vari LED light $45 eats the clunky Makita torch $66 (I have both of them), bosch more light output, adjustable beam, more compact uses next to no battery power 
Watch these clowns  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgHCtMsK_4M

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## Marc

I am going to go on a tangent here ... why not buy 3 or 4 Ozito?

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## METRIX

> Anyway, I'm just debating it for the fun of it. Having a set of tools that are at this level has been a joy having also had cheapies in the past.

  Correct, both are great tools, if you compare them to the cheap rubbish they are like Rolls Royce, although Makita Rolls Royce made in China, Bosch Blue Rolls Royce Made in Malaysia 
Rolls Royce Chinese copy below vs real deal LOL. 
Actually need to hear thoughts from chalkyt, I think this thread had been hijacked.

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## Marc

> That Bosch with 5 batteries, wow that is a whopping good deal, can that be right!

   Yes it is ... the fifth battery is for the hair dryer ...  :2thumbsup:

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## METRIX

> I am going to go on a tangent here ... why not buy 3 or 4 Ozito?

  Umm, I think we all know the answer to that comment.

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## METRIX

> That Bosch with 5 batteries, wow that is a whopping good deal, can that be right!

  I think Bosch is just trying to stick one up Makita, and yes it is a very good deal, that's what the add says.

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## Marc

> Umm, I think we all know the answer to that comment.

  Not really. Think about it. Occasional use, failure rate ... say medium to high in the first year. You can get in theory 4 years out of it if you buy 4. Could be more.
Buy a good brand, say Bosh blue. Occasional use with those little batteries, lack of keeping up the charge, overextending the tool because it is the only one ... failure rate? very high within the first 2 to 3 years.
Seen a shutters installer burn a one moth old Makita brushless with a 19 mm spade drill bit in an Oregon window frame. The smoke starting to come out and he kept on going and going and more smoke came out. Was interesting to watch

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## METRIX

> Not really. Think about it. Occasional use, failure rate ... say medium to high in the first year. You can get in theory 4 years out of it if you buy 4. Could be more.
> Buy a good brand, say Bosh blue. Occasional use with those little batteries, lack of keeping up the charge, overextending the tool because it is the only one ... failure rate? very high within the first 2 to 3 years.
> Seen a shutters installer burn a one moth old Makita brushless with a 19 mm spade drill bit in an Oregon window frame.

  Medium to High failure rate are you serious ??? 
Good Li ion batteries won't die without use, these Bosch are brush drills and are very robust, I know plenty of guys who have these series for heavy trade use, none have over extended them or failed. 
And then there's the pleasure of using a well made tool, vs a low quality throw away, plus the environmental benefits of knowing the company that made it abides by the appropriate environmental rules in production / disposal. 
Buy 4 low quality tools for one good quality tool !, Marc I thought you were German origin, that is a very throw away society thinking  :Confused:  . 
 chalkyt has already been down that rubbish drill road quote *"Having wasted lots of money in the past replacing crappy units with yet another crappy unit"* and is looking to take a new path. 
Also, Makita has an inherent fault in their Brushless motors, they burn the  motor out because there is a problem with their motor protection, ie does not have any, search the web you  will find this issue, another reason to look elsewhere.

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## ringtail

Funny vid Metrix.

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## METRIX

> Funny vid Metrix.

  I know, bunch of clowns, try the one below  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_16rkzycVs

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## OBBob

Wow,  thankfully in pre-brushless. And as I've said before,  when I come to upgrade they'll probably be hydrogen powered.

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## OBBob

> I am going to go on a tangent here ... why not buy 3 or 4 Ozito?

  Because you end up driving over them in a 4wd? 
Seriously, the good tools just feel so much better to use. The control and power delivery is superior etc.

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## METRIX

> Wow,  thankfully in pre-brushless. And as I've said before,  when I come to upgrade they'll probably be hydrogen powered.

  Let's hope these are more reliable than Senco's compressed air Fusion tool, that is a fail, 4 guys I know have them (or had them) 5 including mine, all failed within 6 months, all back to Paslode's now. 
That tool gets the big thumbs down, santa don't drop one by here again  :Wmann3: .

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## phild01

> Not really. Think about it. Occasional use, failure rate ... say medium to high in the first year. You can get in theory 4 years out of it if you buy 4. Could be more.
> Buy a good brand, say Bosh blue. Occasional use with those little batteries, lack of keeping up the charge, overextending the tool because it is the only one ... failure rate? very high within the first 2 to 3 years.
> Seen a shutters installer burn a one moth old Makita brushless with a 19 mm spade drill bit in an Oregon window frame. The smoke starting to come out and he kept on going and going and more smoke came out. Was interesting to watch

  The AEG will stop if you abuse it like that and the batteries are well looked after by the charger.  Things have changed.  I could never use a cheap and nasty battery drill again, other things like grinders yes.

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## OBBob

^ that's the problem with buying good tools, you realise how much better they are,  become a tool snob (lol) and then can't go back.

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## ringtail

excellent vid Metrix. Say no more.

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## chalkyt

Wow... I am convinced. The Bosch Blue deal is outstanding. I didn't notice the combo deal when I was searching. For $60 more than just the drill deal you also get the impact driver (but being "old fashioned', do I need one?... I have to do the gazebo colorbond roofing yet, so maybe that is the excuse). I guess I was being swayed by the Makita marketing but Bosch Blue seems to be the way to go. 
Sydney Tools order tomorrow... should have it in a week. Thanks for all the great info, MERRY XMAS, Santa is coming early.

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## OBBob

It great that you managed to distille at least a little bit of good advice out of the previous 30 posts! Sounds like you are on the right track... Sydney Tools certainly do have some tempting deals recently.

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## phild01

You will love having an impact driver!

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## METRIX

> Wow... I am convinced. The Bosch Blue deal is outstanding. I didn't notice the combo deal when I was searching. For $60 more than just the drill deal you also get the impact driver (but being "old fashioned', do I need one?... I have to do the gazebo colorbond roofing yet, so maybe that is the excuse). I guess I was being swayed by the Makita marketing but Bosch Blue seems to be the way to go. 
> Sydney Tools order tomorrow... should have it in a week. Thanks for all the great info, MERRY XMAS, Santa is coming early.

  For $60 more, I wouldn't even question it, Let us know what the deal is with the 2 free batteries, not sure if you trade back two of the 1.3A, or get an additional 2 extra, if you get the extra 2 the deal is well worth it. 
And also let me know if both drill and impact fit in the one box, if they do can you give me the part number of the black plastic insert as I want this, the part number is stamped on the bottom of the insert would be something like 6 035 961 XXX XX. 
These are only $7 from Sydney Tools very cheap IMO, and they fit the standard LBOXX 136 
I know you will enjoy using the drills they are an awesome piece of kit.

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## Marc

> Medium to High failure rate are you serious ??? 
> Good Li ion batteries won't die without use, these Bosch are brush drills and are very robust, I know plenty of guys who have these series for heavy trade use, none have over extended them or failed. 
> And then there's the pleasure of using a well made tool, vs a low quality throw away, plus the environmental benefits of knowing the company that made it abides by the appropriate environmental rules in production / disposal. 
> Buy 4 low quality tools for one good quality tool !, Marc I thought you were German origin, that is a very throw away society thinking  . 
>  chalkyt has already been down that rubbish drill road quote *"Having wasted lots of money in the past replacing crappy units with yet another crappy unit"* and is looking to take a new path. 
> Also, Makita has an inherent fault in their Brushless motors, they burn the  motor out because there is a problem with their motor protection, ie does not have any, search the web you  will find this issue, another reason to look elsewhere.

  Hu hu, that got you going good !
Err ... what if you buy 5 Ozito ?

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## phild01

Trying to think up an excuse to buy this thing, yet perfectly happy with what I have.  Noticed it looks like the same chuck as on my old green bosch's, a chuck I always liked.

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## METRIX

> Err ... what if you buy 5 Ozito ?

  Can't have 5, you could only afford 4.76, at $69 a piece

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## METRIX

> Trying to think up an excuse to buy this thing, yet perfectly happy with what I have.  Noticed it looks like the same chuck as on my old green bosch's, a chuck I always liked.

  But then what would you do, you would end up with 8 batteries, and these would all be dead before you would get to use theml, maybe save your money and buy a few ozito

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## phild01

> .... maybe save your money and buy a few ozito

   :Yikes2:  Don't even suggest that :Eek:

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## Marc

Why? what's wrong with ozito? I bet it makes an awesome sound when you slowly drive a truck over it.

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## phild01

Of all power tools, the drill has to be the most important.
Isn't it the first power tool first thought of and bought! 
You want it to perform well.  Good balance, weight, speeds, power, torque, trueness in operation, reactive operation etc.  It needs to do many things nicely for it's simple task. 
Try going back to the very original B&D's and Bosch's.
A cheap battery drill won't have the finesse of the leading top offerings and typically their batteries will be their let-down.

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## chalkyt

Hi Metrix 
Spoke to ST and placed the order. The sales guy couldn't tell me the insert number but reckons that the box takes both tools. Will let you know the number when the goodies turn up. Thanks again to all for the great advice... nice to have "friends" in the trade.

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## Pitto

> Let's hope these are more reliable than Senco's compressed air Fusion tool, that is a fail, 4 guys I know have them (or had them) 5 including mine, all failed within 6 months, all back to Paslode's now. 
> That tool gets the big thumbs down, santa don't drop one by here again .

  
yep, a mate has killed his too. 
My dewalt 18v nailer is still going strong.

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## METRIX

> yep, a mate has killed his too. 
> My dewalt 18v nailer is still going strong.

  Yep, bad design, and cheap plastics, they break easily if dropped from even from small height (1m),  
Misfires were the real problem with mine, it would fire once, then the next 5 shots it would not fire the nail, the pin was working as it would leave a hole on your work surface, then would fire another nail, then for the next 3 - 8 shots no nail, so your workpiece looked like swiss cheese, which was most annoying. 
I was using genuine Senco nails, so these should have been ok anyway just gave up on it, after it was serviced a few times and still played up, it's strange as Senco make exceptional Air powered guns.
I guess these were just the cheap Chinese designed fantastic plastic. 
I bought one of these Bosch mechanical guns, it is good, a little bulky, and takes a second to wind up and fire, Paslode is instant, it has been reliable so far.
It came in handy recently was doing a job in a block of apartments, and I know the bang from the Paslode would have got some complaints from the neighbors, so used this one as it's very quiet.

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## METRIX

> Hi Metrix 
> Spoke to ST and placed the order. The sales guy couldn't tell me the insert number but reckons that the box takes both tools. Will let you know the number when the goodies turn up. Thanks again to all for the great advice... nice to have "friends" in the trade.

  I asked them about the dual drill insert, the guy said they will have them in next week as a separate item, they have most other inserts for $7 which fit into the LBOXX 136, but one guy told me the dual insert was $45, which does not seem right, the LBOXX is only $36 cant see thatinsert being $45. 
I have just dremelled the single insert to take drill and impact temporarily, but I woud like to know the part number if yours comes with a dual insert.

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## METRIX

> ^ that's the problem with buying good tools, you realise how much better they are,  become a tool snob (lol) and then can't go back.

  Couldn't agree more, $329 for the above professional series tool deal with 5 batteries is exceptional.
Even a DIY Ryobi impact and cordless will cost you $318, only get 2 batteries, this Bosch kit will eat that alive.  Ryobi One+ 18V Cordless Compact Drill Driver Kit I/N 6210436 | Bunnings Warehouse  Ryobi One+ 18V Cordless Impact Driver - Skin Only I/N 6210363 | Bunnings Warehouse

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## ringtail

Can one buy that gun as a skin Metrix ?

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## OBBob

Did I say you should start a blog? ...  tool reviews and get freebies! I know it's probably against your inner values... but free tools!  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## METRIX

> Can one buy that gun as a skin Metrix ?

  Yes, they cost $385 with free shipping, you can get a new Paslode for $450, definitely cheaper than that junk Senco at $799  https://sydneytools.com.au/bosch-gsk...iler-skin-only

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## METRIX

> Did I say you should start a blog? ...  tool reviews and get freebies! I know it's probably against your inner values... but free tools!

  Yes, perhaps I should, free tools are always a bonus, then I can post those reviews on here and just happen to advertise my company during the review trying to pick up extra business as well  :Rolleyes: . 
I am a convert to Bosch Blue, I have had Makita for many years, and still have a lot of their tools, and will continue to use some of them, IMO over the last few years Makita are letting the end user down with more and more of their products, choosing cheap manufacturing over quality of product, which was NOT their policy in the past, this cheap manufacturing is not reflected in their prices, as they usually cost more. 
We all work hard for our money, I have wasted a lot of money over the years on crap (not cheap) or under performing tools, but you don't know they are crap until you start using them, for me currently Bosch Blue offer a good product, at good prices, and I am happy to spend my money on their products, as once you have opened the product and use it, you cannot get your money back. 
I have had a few Makita's I wish I could have got my money back from, but so far I have not had the need to return any Bosch Blue I have purchased. 
I will usually try to use another contractors tool, and ask them what they really like and hate about it before I will commit to purchasing one for myself, internet tool reviews, and sales assistants advice mean diddly squat to me. 
There is usually a hidden agenda of free tools, sales targets, manufacturer incentives etc, so you are bound to say it's the best because you won't get anymore if you say it's bad or has limitations.

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## OBBob

He he,  I know.... when I was looking the Bosch stuff did look and feel just that bit better. Unfortunately it certainly wasn't cheaper at that time and I was swayed by already having some Makita tools, which means I have two charges and extra batteries... rather than a mixture.  
Anyway, the cash for comment market is huge... there are girls out there making a lot of money from talking about cosmetics on YouTube. If you could combine tool reviews with skin care for tradies I think you'd be onto a winner.  :Smilie:

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## METRIX

> He he,  I know.... when I was looking the Bosch stuff did look and feel just that bit better. Unfortunately it certainly wasn't cheaper at that time and I was swayed by already having some Makita tools, which means I have two charges and extra batteries... rather than a mixture.  
> Anyway, the cash for comment market is huge... there are girls out there making a lot of money from talking about cosmetics on YouTube. If you could combine tool reviews with skin care for tradies I think you'd be onto a winner.

  Really you can't go wrong with either brands drills and impacts, they are both nice, my Makita impact's would have put in thousands and thousands of screws and have never complained or failed, it's a testament to how good they can make these things. 
The cordless drills have been good, but both suffer from chucks which the bits slip when under load, no matter how tight you do them up, this can be a bugger when drilling masonry as the bits stop and the drill keeps going, plus they are getting a little tired now, the new stuff just seems so much more powerful.

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## phild01

> The cordless drills have been good, but both suffer from chucks which the bits slip when under load, no matter how tight you do them up, this can be a bugger when drilling masonry as the bits stop and the drill keeps going, plus they are getting a little tired now, the new stuff just seems so much more powerful.

  Happy you made mention of that as I started to wonder if it was me.  I don't seem to remember this so much of a problem with my old green bosch 18v drills.  I guess what I have now has much better power and it is now more of an issue.  I can't win with keyless chucks on my Metabo power drill either.  It shreds the bits and I find the chuck fills with ground up metal powder.  This gunk pretty much seizes up the chuck and it drives me nuts.

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## chalkyt

Should be able to give you the insert part number by the end of this week. Ordered on Thursday and received notice of dispatch via A Post today. usually two or three days to get here at the end of the line so hopefully I'll have a new toy by the weekend!

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## METRIX

> Happy you made mention of that as I started to wonder if it was me.  I don't seem to remember this so much of a problem with my old green bosch 18v drills.  I guess what I have now has much better power and it is now more of an issue.  I can't win with keyless chucks on my Metabo power drill either.  It shreds the bits and I find the chuck fills with ground up metal powder.  This gunk pretty much seizes up the chuck and it drives me nuts.

  Don't mention Metabo powered drills and keyless chucks, I had non stop trouble with the "top of the line" Futuro Top chuck, it did not slip but the complete opposite, it would not let go of the bit.
When you tried to undo the chuck it refused to undo and let the bit out, and had bitten so hard into the bit it left three cut mark's in the steel. 
It was a real pain, as you always had to carry a spanner with you to hold the base of the chuck while you undid the top, in the end I replaced it with a conventional keyed chick and all was fixed, this is why I like SDS so much, turn and click, its locked in. 
One exception is a medium sized Makita demo hammer I had that took SDS+, the bits would never lock in properly (genuine Makita bits), you had to fiddle with the chuck, turn it a little here and there, tap it up down, it was a right pain to use, and sometimes you could simply not get it to take the bit, needless to say that Makita was shown the door of no return.

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## phild01

> It was a real pain, as you always had to carry a spanner with you to hold the base of the chuck while you undid the top, in the end I replaced it with a conventional keyed chick and all was fixed, this is why I like SDS so much, turn and click, its locked in.

  This is the same issue I have and end up using large stillsons to free it up.

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## METRIX

> This is the same issue I have and end up using large stillsons to free it up.

  Get rid of it and go to a keyed one, a lot easier and less frustrating.

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## phild01

> Get rid of it and go to a keyed one, a lot easier and less frustrating.

  Didn't want the inconvenience of a key but it seems this is the only option..

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## Marc

I've got a big Bosh corded 2 speed drill that has a keyless chuck. Not a problem. You have to have the strenght in your hand to squeeze the drill bit, none of that sloppy hand twist. If you wring it well, it doesn't let go and it undoes no problem. And it is one of those that don't go backwards so you can tighten with one hand. 
There are two kinds of keyless chucks as far as I know. One needs you to use both hands, one hand on the chuck and the other on the collar that keeps it from turning. The other kind has a mechanism that does not allow it to turn backwards and so you only need one hand. Well there is a third kind now that I think of it, were you only use one hand yet there is no real way to keep the chuck from turning back unless you use the inertia of the armature or give it a small bump with the power and hold it with your hand at the same time. 
Keyed chucks are not necessary the anti slip solution. I have used plenty of 16mm chucks that have a key that is too small and you have a real hard time to tighten up a bit and stop it from turning. 
And when a bit slipped once, it will slip again and again ... and you reach for the stilson  :Smilie:

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## Uncle Bob

> none of that sloppy hand twist.

  Is that similar to "a handshake like a wet bus ticket"  :Wink:    

> Keyed chucks are not necessary the anti slip solution. I have used  plenty of 16mm chucks that have a key that is too small and you have a  real hard time to tighten up a bit and stop it from turning. 
> And when a bit slipped once, it will slip again and again ... and you reach for the stilson

  I used to hate Keyless chucks, but the ratchet one of my Dewalt cordless is fantastic. It will break your wrist before it slips.

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## METRIX

> Didn't want the inconvenience of a key but it seems this is the only option..

  It's easier than carrying around a pair of Stiltons, and less frustration.

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## phild01

> It's easier than carrying around a pair of Stiltons, and less frustration.

  Yep, the inconvenience isn't as great now that the cordless drill is the primary drill and the sds handles a lot of the other stuff.

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## METRIX

> Yep, the inconvenience isn't as great now that the cordless drill is the primary drill and the sds handles a lot of the other stuff.

  Same here, that Metabo now sits in the cupboard, as it's just a regular hammer drill, the SDS Rotary is the one used for most things, and cordless for everything else.

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## OBBob

ROFL ... I thought I'd seen it all when it comes to skins!    https://sydneytools.com.au/makita-dc...aker-skin-only

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## METRIX

> ROFL ... I thought I'd seen it all when it comes to skins!    https://sydneytools.com.au/makita-dc...aker-skin-only

  
You know it's all going pear shaped when they start making coffee makers, next there will be a Makita car.

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## phild01

Can just see the tradies now wondering why all their batteries are flat :Rolleyes:

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## METRIX

It would only last 5 minutes on site before it got broken.

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## METRIX

Just got my latest two Bosch skins, they came in two separate boxes, each one had a plastic insert that was cut to fit thew standard LBOXX 136, put them both together and they fit into one LBOXX, with charger in the middle and spare batter at the front, clever design.

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## OBBob

> You know it's all going pear shaped when they start making coffee makers, next there will be a Makita car.

  Close ...

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## chalkyt

Saw a Makita "Whipper Snipper" the other day, petrol powered and in the rack with the "proper" Husquvarna and Echo units... no electrons needed.

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## Marc

I had a Makita chainsaw for a long time ...  :Shock:

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## METRIX

I have a Makita Blower / Vac, it has been very reliable, the Vac part is useless but the blower is good.

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## David.Elliott

Hey Metrix,
Ain't got mine yet, but now I'm even MORE excited...
I sent SWMBO the ST link and it's coming for me for Christmas...WTFII? It's been a week...

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## MorganGT

> ROFL ... I thought I'd seen it all when it comes to skins!    https://sydneytools.com.au/makita-dc...aker-skin-only

   Don't think I'll be getting one of those, all my cordless stuff is Milwaukee. 
.....and I think my workplace already has enough coffee machines......

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## METRIX

So why so many machines, and which ones are the reliable ones ?

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## chalkyt

Hi Metrix and others 
Santa arrived yesterday and the drill has already done half a day's work. Sydney Tools were on the job quite quickly... ordered on Thursday, despatch notification on Monday, then 5 days for good old Australia Post to put it on the snail's back and get it to me. 
Sadly there was no insert for the tools, just all the bits rattling around in the box. when I checked with Sydney Tools they said that Bosch don't make a dual tool insert so they don't supply one with the combo... strange, so I can't give you a part number. It isn't a big deal since the tools won't be carted all over the place in the back of a ute. It is a good, useful box and it shouldn't be too hard to knock something up out of timber, rubber, etc if I need to. 
Thanks everyone for the input.

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## OBBob

> So why so many machines, and which ones are the reliable ones ?

  From reading elsewhere I believe he is a coffee machine repair artist ... what a job!

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## MorganGT

> From reading elsewhere I believe he is a coffee machine repair artist ... what a job!

  Yep, I install/service/repair coffee machines for a living. What's in that pic is maybe half of the stuff we have in stock, and we've probably scrapped that many in the last year too. Much of it is is in storage for the various coffee companies we work for, the rest is trade-ins and scrap machines either for parts or rebuilding. Lately though, the cost of new machines has come down enough that it is not worth the time and cost to rebuild an old machine to a standard that allows you to provide a warranty of any sort, since you have to sell it for a price approaching a new machine price to make any money at all.

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## Uncle Bob

> which ones are the reliable ones ?

  Not the ones in the racking  :Smilie:

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## OBBob

> Yep, I install/service/repair coffee machines for a living. What's in that pic is maybe half of the stuff we have in stock, and we've probably scrapped that many in the last year too. Much of it is is in storage for the various coffee companies we work for, the rest is trade-ins and scrap machines either for parts or rebuilding. Lately though, the cost of new machines has come down enough that it is not worth the time and cost to rebuild an old machine to a standard that allows you to provide a warranty of any sort, since you have to sell it for a price approaching a new machine price to make any money at all.

  It's a shame that's it's a dying art.

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