# Forum Home Renovation Flooring  T & G floor over chipboard

## micknean

I'm going to lay 130 x 19 spotted gum floor over an existing chipboard floor. 
Should i have a vapor barrier between the sub floor and the finish floor? I have read that it is necessary to help control dust and moisture from below as well as dampen squeaks.  
I was just going to use a non water based glue and top nail the boards straight onto the chipboard. 
Can anyone tell me if i can get a nails to suit a paslode framing gun that would be good for the job.

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## TimDavis

Check with the experts re moisture barrier, fixing and adhesives, I'm not sure. One thing I do know from sanding and finishing this beautiful timber is make absolutely sure the boards acclimatise to the area they'll be laid in. Seen lots of spotted gum floors shrink and cup after laying due to a rushed job ie. timber delivered and then laid straight from the pack.
To avoid this, unpack the boards, and lay them loose in the room they're to be laid in and let them acclimatise, either drying out more, or taking up atmospheric moisture, whatever the case may be. Give them at least two weeks, then fix them down, it's worth the wait, the boards will stay tight, no gaps (hopefully), and you will end up with a stunning floor. Just don't rush it, maybe wait a further week or two before sanding and coating.

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## Dan574

If you havent bought the timber yet, have a look at 12mm thick.  Boral do a good product.   
I never used a barrier under mine when it was done.   
I used bostik ultra set glue and then secret nailed, mine were only 80mm though.  It came up a treat.

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## Christopher_940

not too shure about the moistre barrier check with dusty glock etc but been 130mm wide need to top nail into the joists not just the chipboard and i would use bostick ultra set we laid some of this stuff a while ago and used 50mm deck nails and use a coil gun we used 3 per board and ultra set didnt move at all but as i said check with someone who does a bit more laying we proberly only lay about 4 a year

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## glock40sw

level sand the Y/T.
Ultraset Adhesive.
Nail through to pick up the joists.
Use "T" nails or powercleats.

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## micknean

> To avoid this, unpack the boards, and lay them loose in the room they're to be laid in and let them acclimatise, either drying out more, or taking up atmospheric moisture, whatever the case may be. Give them at least two weeks, then fix them down, it's worth the wait, the boards will stay tight, no gaps (hopefully), and you will end up with a stunning floor. Just don't rush it, maybe wait a further week or two before sanding and coating.

  Thanks for that, I'm not in any hurry with the job. The timber will be in the room for about 4 weeks before it gets laid. And i will wait before sanding and coating.

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## micknean

> level sand the Y/T.
> Ultraset Adhesive.
> Nail through to pick up the joists.
> Use "T" nails or powercleats.

  Having put  a very large straight edge across the floor it seems very good so i will only have to sand a couple of spots. 
I was planning to use an ultraset adhesive. 
I do have one problem, the house is split level and the floor joists run in opposite directions on each level  :Shock:  :Shock:  So i was planning to run the flooring parallel (only nailing and gluing to the Y/T)to the floor joist upstairs and run them across the floor joist down stairs, this means that the flooring will run in the same direction upstairs and down. I did speak to a builder friend and he seem to think that it would be ok. What do you think?

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## glock40sw

> Having put a very large straight edge across the floor it seems very good so i will only have to sand a couple of spots. 
> I was planning to use an ultraset adhesive. 
> I do have one problem, the house is split level and the floor joists run in opposite directions on each level  So i was planning to run the flooring parallel (only nailing and gluing to the Y/T)to the floor joist upstairs and run them across the floor joist down stairs, this means that the flooring will run in the same direction upstairs and down. I did speak to a builder friend and he seem to think that it would be ok. What do you think?

  Should be OK, but not recommended.

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## rrobor

I have a bamboo floor and that came with an underlay of foam with foil top. this helps to compensate for unevenness but also does a good job as insulation. Saw stuff at the renovators show, foil on both sides was reconed to be as good as a bat. $270 a roll though.

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## GeoffW1

Hi, 
We have not long done this. We did a lot of research and did not use a vapor barrier between. 
We had success with adhesive plus straight nailing of the wide boards on joists, then secret nailing (actually staples) plus adhesive over, of the hardwoood T&G boards. 
The floor is free of squeaks and shows good thermal insulation this winter.  
BTW, the air powered secret nailer is for sale now cheap plus some staples. It did 120 sq m without stoppage. 
Cheers

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## Gaza

> not too shure about the moistre barrier check with dusty glock etc but been 130mm wide need to top nail into the joists not just the chipboard and i would use bostick ultra set we laid some of this stuff a while ago and used 50mm deck nails and use a coil gun we used 3 per board and ultra set didnt move at all but as i said check with someone who does a bit more laying we proberly only lay about 4 a year

  50mm coil nails you say, that would have split the timber like a bitch.

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## intertd6

With the T&G onto the particle board flooring with glue & nailing, what about the wax on the particle board if it has not been weathered ? will the glue get enough adhesion or does the wax have to be sanded off ?
regards inter

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## Christopher_940

> 50mm coil nails you say, that would have split the timber like a bitch.

  no mate we hand nailed butt joins thou but we have done this on 2 jobs one job where 190mm wide boards

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## glock40sw

> With the T&G onto the particle board flooring with glue & nailing, what about the wax on the particle board if it has not been weathered ? will the glue get enough adhesion or does the wax have to be sanded off ?
> regards inter

  Run over the Y/T with the sander to level it the joins and rough it up first.

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## Broster

First up - great choice on timber - nothing better in my opinion than 130mm Spotty! Just a quick note on the acclimatising of timber flooring.. the thing to remember is that you can allow for expansion but not for contraction.. 
The theory of acclimatising has changed a lot in the last few years and advice from all the big manufacturers these days is not to acclimatise at all. If you're spanning over 6 meters then you'll need to put in expansion gaps - these will stop the boards cupping if they expand. If you acclimatise, you risk the boards taking on moisture and once you have heating, air-con, or just dry weather, your boards will likely gap and there's nothing you can do about it.
A lot of installers still like to acclimatise, but this is mostly a CYA exercise. :Wink 1:

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## Gaza

> First up - great choice on timber - nothing better in my opinion than 130mm Spotty! Just a quick note on the acclimatising of timber flooring.. the thing to remember is that you can allow for expansion but not for contraction.. 
> The theory of acclimatising has changed a lot in the last few years and advice from all the big manufacturers these days is not to acclimatise at all. If you're spanning over 6 meters then you'll need to put in expansion gaps - these will stop the boards cupping if they expand. If you acclimatise, you risk the boards taking on moisture and once you have heating, air-con, or just dry weather, your boards will likely gap and there's nothing you can do about it.
> A lot of installers still like to acclimatise, but this is mostly a CYA exercise.

  all vaild points but what has happended to the flooring once it was dried to when it was delivered to site, this can be months even years.  If the timber was stored in an open shed then the pack of flooring can pick up a lot of moisture. 
the decsion to acclimatise should be made after suitable climatic conditions have been tested this is mostly the relative humdity of the area where the flooring is to be laid, this needs to be tested in the morning, lunch time and afternoon. 
once the RH is deterimed the timber can be moisture tested you can then work out if acclimatise is required after checking the graph. which shows the RH vs Timber MC. 
if the floor is being laid over concrete then you will also need to check the MC of the slab to deterime if the MC is greater than 5.5%.

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## glock40sw

> The theory of acclimatising has changed a lot in the last few years and advice from all the big manufacturers these days is not to acclimatise at all.

  Well....Not from this big manufacturer. 
We maintain that climatisation needs to be accessed for each site as per Gaza's post above. 
Especially for 130mm boards.

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## intertd6

> Run over the Y/T with the sander to level it the joins and rough it up first.

  Thanks
regards inter

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## micknean

Thanks to everyone for the tips i now have a plan  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  and you can follow this job in the go to whoa section, http://www.renovateforum.com/showthread.php?t=75764

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## Connollys

Hi mate, firstly great choice of timber, Spotted Gum is fantastic. Just a quick couple of tips on installing the boards, you must sand the particle board first and the whole floor not just the joins, then trowel the glue down with a v notched trowel. Make sure you finish the glue off in the opposite direction to the boards, use Bostik Ultraset. Around the walls leave at least 10mm but if you trim the bottom of the plasterboard you can gain another 10mm. After you have installed the floor leave it for at least one month before sanding and polishing. This will give it a chance to do its initial moving and minimise problems later. Hope that is of some help. 
Cheers  :2thumbsup:

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## glock40sw

G'day Craig.
How's things down Mexico?

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## micknean

> trowel the glue down with a v notched trowel. Make sure you finish the glue off in the opposite direction to the boards, use Bostik Ultraset.

  Thanks for this tip :2thumbsup:

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## Connollys

Hey Trevor, Mexico is great lol. Im off to Vegas next week Ill see if I can find that shirt for you and if you have any other requests give me a call. Hows things in Hollywood   :2thumbsup:

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## glock40sw

Bloody hard life you have... XXXL would be great.
Oh. and a 18Y.O Blonde Bimbo with big knockers would be good too... :Biggrin: . female of course.... :2thumbsup:

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## Dusty

> Bloody hard life you have... XXXL would be great.
> Oh. and a 18Y.O *Blonde* *Bimbo* with big knockers would be good too.... female of course....

  If that's your T-Shirt request, then it's time for Lite N Easy my boy. 
And, what the hell do you want with my daughter?????

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## glock40sw

Ah, Dusty....You floories are funny buggers...eh? :Biggrin:  
The term is "Comfortably Rounded"...But thanks anyway. :Wink:

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## 123

if the chipboard floor is because the floor is a second floor then no vapour barrier would be needed. possible recommend if this is over ground however. 
Definately acclimatise the boards before and after installing. 1 - 2 weeks before and 1 - 2 weeks after. you are better off waiting now rather than repairing later on due to excessive movement.  
In terms of fixing, you can now secret nail 130 x 19mm boards, but there is slight differences in the installation method. (fully trowel polyurethane adhesive, secret nailing every 300mm) 
Sorry if some of these were already answered, i didn't read all the answers here!

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## westcoast

I need to lay a jarrah floor shortly - the boards are a feature grade 12 mm direct stick board and will go straight onto structafloor. 
I've got a couple of questions relative to things brought up in this post 
1.  re the nailing - I was thinking of laying the boards into the glue and wacking a 16 ga brad through the face - Im not too fussed about the odd nail hole given that its a feature grade anyway.  Assuming I pick up the joists will the brad be sufficient or do i need something a bit heavier duty?  if the brad will be ok, how many should I use? 
2.  To sand the structafloor flat I was thinking of getting on the hands and knees and going over the joins with a belt sander.  I wont have access to a floor sander until its time for finishing.  Will this be ok or do I need to give the whole floor a going over with a floor sander. 
3.  To acclimatise the boards I assume its ok to just loosly stack them for a few weeks - I'm a bit worried that without any strapping they might cup prior to laying 
Thanks very much

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## micknean

Firstly thanks for all the comments it has been very useful information. 
OK, I have finally got the mods to the house under control and can see some light at the end of the tunnel. 
I have level sanded the Yellow tongue floor and am ready to start laying the T & G floor. 
In the pic bellow there is a small section of the boards which I'm going to lay. There is a hallway with a toilet and bathroom.   Can i get away from not leaving a 10mm gap against the tiled floor on the entrance to the toilet and bathroom?

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## Christopher_940

we usualy leave 3-5mm and put some caulk and colours in the gap

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## Gaza

> we usualy leave 3-5mm and put some caulk and colours in the gap

  correct that is a neat way of finshing but you should not use caulk in colours as it dires out and cracks, after final coat we cork with colour matched silcone or polyurthane, you can get a wide range of bathroom silcones,  but you must wait until after final coat.

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## micknean

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" sad="" shock.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Shock" smilieid="413" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" sad="" shock.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Shock" smilieid="413" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>Just a little update on the floor,
I ended up level sanding the Y/T floor before laying the new floor over the top gluing (Bostic ultraset) and secret nailing every 300mm.
We ended up using a professional to sand the floor and coated it in a water base product (Bona trafic, made in Sweden)
We are very happy with the finish.

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## glock40sw

Good Job! 
The floor looks great.
Well Done.

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## pdoc

looks great 
I just finished laying 52m2 of sydney blue gum and hope it looks as good once sanded

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