# Forum Home Renovation Fences & Screens  Frameless Glass Pool Fencing

## n0ahz0rk

Hi, 
Just wondering if anyone has build a frameless glass pool fence using the highgrove glass and aluminium channels available at bunnings.... 
I'm thinking of doing one using this method. The instruction DVD shows how to setup the channel recessed into a timber deck, but I want to recess it into concrete bordering the existing paved area around the pool. 
Any hints or tips on doing this would be appreciated. 
Thanks.

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## wolf

Here in queensland, for pool fencing we needed a "form 15" ( compliance certificate for builing design or specification for galzing safety) which states the glass meets australian standards.  With out one the pool fence is non complient. Dont know if same applies for NSW.  First I would check with with the people who inspect the final fence to see if any certification is required. 
I did notice that a lot of places on hte internet also supply glass with certification at reasonable prices.

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## pauljygrant

> Hi, 
> Just wondering if anyone has build a frameless glass pool fence using the highgrove glass and aluminium channels available at bunnings.... 
> I'm thinking of doing one using this method. The instruction DVD shows how to setup the channel recessed into a timber deck, but I want to recess it into concrete bordering the existing paved area around the pool. 
> Any hints or tips on doing this would be appreciated. 
> Thanks.

  Not sure if you have considered this, but bunnings also have 3 ranges of glass pool fencing that i guess would be fairly price competitive...
Paul

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## n0ahz0rk

Hi... 
Yes, I'm planning on using the glass panels from bunnings. I have only seen the one range available... the highgrove system - they have different options, semi-frameless with posts bolted onto concrete or decking, semi-frameless with inground posts, or the fully frameless channel system (which I'm planning to use). A lot of the glass fencing advertised on the internet are 8mm and 10mm thick, these ones (highgrove glass from bunnings) are 12mm thick.

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## jiggy

yeah looked at Bunnings, then worked out the price of the fittings and changed my mind  Checked on the net and found this company ,considerably cheaper,will be using their product in the next few months FDF Fencing Solutions | Glass Gallery Or look up fdf fencing solutions

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## n0ahz0rk

> found this company ,considerably cheaper

  Really ?? When I look at the pricelist for frameless glass, the FDF 1300 x 1180mm panels are $133 ea, the Highgrove  1300 x 1200mm from bunnings are $111. Also the FDF frameless hinge and latch kit is $329, the Highgrove frameless hinges are $190 and the latch is $150 ($340 total).  
I'm planning on using the recesssed channel method, so i don't need any spigots, perhaps thats where there is a saving, I don't know the prices on those.  
Also if you're using the spigots, i guess you can take advantage of their longer panels, and not require so many.  
Thanks for the tip, I didn't come accross these guys in my research.

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## n0ahz0rk

Here's some pics of my challenge.

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## n0ahz0rk

After much procrastination, the channel is finally laid. 
See the pics of the job so far. Not the worlds best concreting job (the form boards bowed out a bit under the weight of the concrete), but it should hold. It's not visible in the pictures, but I dug holes approx 250x250x 400 deep every couple of metres along the sections of concrete for a bit of a footing. 
I decided to pre-drill the channel and put the dynabolts into the wet concrete, rather than drilling out the holes afterwards. I don't know if this is the bet way to go about it, but it seemed a bit less hassle to me. 
I also bolted the sections of channel (it comes in 3m lengths) together with a plate of aluminium offcuts to keep them all together. I'd highly recommend this method over trying to put the sections in individually if you are embedding them in concrete. 
To put the channel in place, my father in law came up with a cutout block of wood with a lip that we used to run along the edge of the pavers, which screeted the concrete in the formed up section below at the correct height, then laid the channel in place and filled either side with concrete. A bit of a mission for a novice, but it all finished up ok in the end.  
I have ordered the glass from bunnings, and it should be here next week!

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## n0ahz0rk

Finally... the fence is up. 
Very happy with the job so far... it's not absolutely perfect, but unless people come on over with their spirit levels and calipers, they're probably not going to notice too much. Did you know glass panels can have a bow in them ? 
I almost feel like I cheated a bit, because I got a mate to help who used to be a glazier and has done glass ballustrading before, but I'm still claiming this very much as DIY. 
The really important bit is getting the channel as level as you can. This makes everything much easier. 
Ordering the glass: 
My local bunnings had plenty of the stock panels (1300x1200) but not much else, so I travelled to the next closest, where they had almost everything I needed. I asked if they could order in the last few pieces, and get everything delivered together, but they checked with highgrove and said if I placed my order and paid that day, the whole lot could be delivered the following week, brand new stok from the supplier. So I did. Sure enough.... the following week, no sign of any delivery. When I called, the Bunnings store checked with the supplier and aparrently the hinges were out of stock and the supplier was waiting for new stock to arrive in the country before shipping any of my order.... or something like that... So I asked the bunnings store to deliver everything that they had that was on my list, and to see if they could tell me which other store I could go to to get the other pieces. After several chase up calls over the next couple of days, they hadn't found any store that had the other pieces, so I called another store and the first one I called had all the remaining pieces I needed - just lucky I guess.  
My tip - call the supplier yourself and check the stock situation, I'm not sure if they will take the order directly, or if it has to go through a bunnings store. 
Also - aparrently the glass supplier Highgrove was sending me the silicon blocks to stand the glass on in the channel (these are not sold in bunnings stores so I hear), they never arrived. Instead I used a mixed pack of window packers. I think that this was better in the end, as the silicon blocks have to be cut / trimmed to allow for any varience in the channel hieght. Trust me, it would not be a convenient thing to have to pull out the silicon block from under the glass panel - they are heavy, have someone hold the glass panel while the silicon gets trimmed down, and then pop it back in to check. The window packers were varying hieghts, so when a panel was not finishing flush with the adjacent panel, we had a good idea of the difference needed and could make up a combination of packers to allow for the exact difference (within to a half to 1 mm). Plus no need to worry about what happens when you trim it too much. 
The directions are pretty much as per the instruction sheet, stand up the panels in the channel, brace them into position, lock them together with a few timber offcuts and then pour your grout.

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## n0ahz0rk

1) Get the channel level.  
2) Use a block of timber (or taped together stack of window packers) just the right size to ensure that the bottoms of the glass panels are centered in the channel - just something to sit in the channel and pull the glass toward it, so you know it's consistently x mm from the edge - saves measuring each time. 
3) Work out the gaps required between each panel - put the end panels in first and see how much space and how many panels you still have to fit. When you've calculated the gap size, make up a block of timber (or stack of window packers) to fit that size, then use this template between each panel as you put them in place... rather than measuring the gap each time. 
4) The timber braces did a great job of holding the glass panels in place (even without being secured to the ground) You don't need to brace every panel in place, once the panels are locked together, a brace on every second panel should do. I put some pegs in the ground and screwed the braces at either end to the pegs, once the final adjustments were done. 
5) Don't use merbau timber for locking the panels together like I did.... there must have been quite a dew because on the next couple of nights after we stood the fence up. The panels were locked together pretty tight with two pieces of left over merbau decking, which must have swelled so much that the screws holding the two pices together actually snapped. I assume the expansion in the timber just put too much pressure on the screws (not the most expensive gal dipped screws, granted.) The other problem with the merbau offcuts, is that because of the dew, the tanin leaks out of the timber, and stained some of the grout in the gaps of the fence. Most of it came off with a stuff scrubbing brush, but I'd avoid it if i was doing that again. (at least cover so they don't get wet) 
6) Be aware that the timber blocks you use to lock the panels together may scratch the panels. Aparrently the outer layer of the toughened saftey glass is easily scratched. Suggest using an old flanno shirt or something between the timber and your glass panels for protection. 
7) I came up with the idea of using a funnel ($1.60 flexible spout funnel from bunnings)  to pour the grout in, becasue I couldn't see how I was going to pour the grout from a large bucket into the narrow gap between glass panel and the channel without it going everywhere. The method seemed to work quite well, minimal splash of grout onto the glass panels. You just need to ensure the mix is smooth enoug to pour. 
8) If you take most of the day to get the panels into place, don't start pouring the grout at the end of the day, wait till the next day to do the grout... not much fun trying to smooth it out during the dark. 
9) Try to clean as much of the grout off the glass before it sets too hard. It will still come off, but you need to be careful not to scratch the glass. (see picture) 
10) Don't attempt it on your own... for obvious reasons, the glass panels weigh 40Kgs for the standard panel....  and small knocks on the edges and corners of toughened saftey glass are aparrently enough to cause the panels to shatter. (into safe pieces at least) 
11) Ensure the hinges are on the correct way... I believe mine are upside down, and this is causing the gate panel to step out of line a little. Should have twigged something was up when 1 set of bolts was too short.... they probably should be the ones that go through the gate panel as it's 10mm glass, and the others are 12mm. Instead I got a pack of new bolts same thread, but longer..... now too long, hence the packing you can see in the photo of the hinge. 
12) For the grout, I used a product called Lanko 702 Durabed (structural grout). It's about $16.50 a bag, and I used about 5 and a half bags for the 16 or so metres of channel I have. Get a good strong bucket and a drill mixer for the job. The grout remains workable for a while after pouring, so there's no real rush to smooth it out (unless you made a very dry or stiff mix)... finish pouring then go back to smooth off and tidy up. 
13) For cutting the channel, forget the angle grinder, hacksaw worked much better, smoother finish, and was probably quicker as well. Also you don't have to nearly kill yourself or amputate your legs using an angle grinder unsafely.

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## n0ahz0rk

Hi guys, 
I have the bits of aluminium channel in the photo here left over. This stuff is $214 for 3m. The long section is 209cm and the short one is 71cm. 
I'm open to any offers if anyone needs these amounts of channel to finish their job. (It does get hot here in summer, and I do get thirsty  :Wink:  ) 
I'm in the Kellyville Ridge area, north west of Sydney.

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## n0ahz0rk

In case anyone is wondering, I've got a couple of pics of the window packers I used and have mentioned above. 
They came in a mixed pack, sizes are 10mm, 6.4mm, 5.0mm, 3.2mm, & 1.5mm - there's approx 20 or so of each in the pack from memory, for about $15 from bunnings.

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## tortfeaser

Thanks for going to the effort of posting your progress. The job looks good, but it'd be so easy to look a bit DIY if the panels were a smidge out of line. 
Do you reckon it'd be easier to line the panels up if you used the semi-frameless product? With the little posts you bolt/concrete in and slot the glass in to? Seems getting those in line would be as tough as getting the glass in line.

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## Gaza

nice job, 
are you putting on a top channel to comply to the BCA?

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## tortfeaser

I don't think a top channel is required for a pool fence, only as a top rail for a balastrade.

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## n0ahz0rk

> it'd be so easy to look a bit DIY if the panels were a smidge out of line.

  Yes, I agree - and I think it I were doing it again, I'd consider  locking the panels together with the blocks of timber at the top and at  the bottom of each panel. I had one panel where the bottom has shifted  out about 5mm during the grout pouring stage. 
Also, all my projects have a touch of DIY about them, so I was prepared for the fence to be no exception.   

> Do you reckon it'd be easier to line the panels up if you used the semi-frameless product?

  Yes I suppose the panels would align better in the posts, as long as the  posts were exactly aligned. I imagine you could still end up with some  leaning in and some leaning out slightly.

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## n0ahz0rk

> nice job, 
> are you putting on a top channel to comply to the BCA?

  Thanks - I didn't realise this was required. Do you have any specific info from the BCA which relates to this ? From my reading of the information from my council and what I can find on the net of the BCA, there is no mention of ballustrades, except if they are on a balcony within the non-climable zone. 
The documentation from Highgrove (the glass fence system supplier) mentions that the fully frameless system is "Australian standards compliant", but does not mention exactly which standards it refers to. 
Either way, the fence will have to be certified before the pool builder can continue, so if there is a requirement for the capping, I expect they will tell me.

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## Gaza

had a look at AS1288 in 2006 which only talks about balstrades, where you need to "restain" the top edge of the glass. 
i know that on our job the pool fence has got a top cap. which is 20mm channel. 
this highgrove glass maybe needs to update there manual as the glass they suppy complies to AS for tough glass but they can no way certify that the installation is correct, a fence is not an issue but if some one used this for a balcony and got it wrong, plus the council would require a installation certifacte stating the AS it complies to.

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## n0ahz0rk

Hi - just FYI, the fence has been certified, no capping required.

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## tengals

looks good, 
let me know if you have any questions I sell and install fully frameless fencing.

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## Trafford

Thanks for the tip on the different sized bolts - never would have noticed. 
I can see that the rectangular rubbers go between hinge and glass but what about the rubber washers - are they supposed to go directly under the head of the nut or bolt on the outside of the hinge ?
I have successfully installed the channel system on my new deck if anybody wants any tips on what did/didn't work. One tip I will offer is that a watering can with a cut-down spout really worked well for pouring the grout.

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## n0ahz0rk

> Hi guys, 
> I have the bits of aluminium channel in the photo here left over. This stuff is $214 for 3m. The long section is 209cm and the short one is 71cm.

  Seriously... I still have the channel pieces - free to anyone who wants it, no payment of any kind required.

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## bpc

> Hi guys, 
> I have the bits of aluminium channel in the photo here left over. This stuff is $214 for 3m. The long section is 209cm and the short one is 71cm. 
> I'm open to any offers if anyone needs these amounts of channel to finish their job. (It does get hot here in summer, and I do get thirsty  ) 
> I'm in the Kellyville Ridge area, north west of Sydney.

  We are about to launch into a similar job but need a short lenght. How much for the 71cm length? brian

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## n0ahz0rk

Hi Brian, 
You can have the channel completely free.... you just have to come and pick it up. 
Cheers.

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## Pulpo

Good job. 
I prefer cemsets to dyna bolts these days. 
I would like to know how much force could be applied to the top before the glass cracks, not suggesting you try. 
Be careful with the top of the glass on the edges it cracks easily have seen it done. 
What was the total cost? 
cheers 
pulpo

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## n0ahz0rk

Thanks Pulpo... 
Rough estimate on the cost (can't find all the receipts): 
item             qty             item cost             total                                
Channel 3m                 6x                  $214.00                 $1,284.00
Std Panels                 9x                  $111.00     $999.00
800 Panels                  2x                  $87.00                   $174.00
1100 Panel                  1x                  $95.00                   $95.00
Hinge Panel                 1x                  $89.00                  $89.00
Gate Panel                  1x      $75.00                   $75.00
Hinge                          1x                  $150.00                 $150.00
Latch              1x                  $190.00                 $190.00
702Groute bags              6x               $16.40                   $98.40                                 
Total                                    $3,154.40                 
Note - not including the concreting to set the channel in place, or the dynabolts to fix the channel into the concrete bed, some panel prices are estimates... a trip or phone call to Bunnings will confirm exact prices.

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## John99

Hey you done at great job there n0ahz0rk .... been hoping to do the same when the pool goes in ... looks great ...... cheers

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## ric_b

Hello everybody!  Just wanted to share info regarding High Grove pool fencing that can be purchased at Bunnings.  I used the mini post system and used about 20 lineal metres of it using various sizes.  For those who are planning to use the system, it is easy to DIY.  The problems I had was the supply of the materials.  It took ages to get the smaller size panels, the hinge panels, and the gate panels (Ihave 2 gates).  I finally got my panels and thought my project was finished until I had to fit the gate latch!  The latch that I was given did not fit the gate panels (900 x 1200 x 10mm).  The holes did not match - the latch was 40 mm between the bolts and the holes on my panel was 80 mm.  I contacted High Grove and was advised that I had the wrong gate panel and to order it through Bunnings.  That was 2 weeks ago and I'm still waiting for this particular gate panel.  Yesterday I found this business that supplied latches which fitted the 80 mm hole on my panel. It is in Brendale, north of Brisbane.  For those who are having the same problem email Greg on ag.fittings@bigpond.com.  I am in no way connnected with this business. I'm just happy I will finish my fencing this weekend.  It has taken more than 3 months since I started this pool fencing.  Hope this helps somebody.

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## Bingl

Nice work, did you consider simply installing the glass into a groove in your concrete slab without using the aluminium channel?  I understand it can be done and it saves heaps in terms of cost.  Clearly that part of the slab in which the groove is made needs to be more substantial than a 75 mm paving bed (say 300mm X 300 mm).  You would make the groove laying the correct size timber in the concrete taking account of the fact that you need to get a 1.2 metre height from top of paver to top of fence.  So with a 40 mm paver your channel might be 50-60 mm deep (allowing for 10 mm rubber under glass and mortar bed).  Guess you would fill the groove with your grout, lay pavers, and use more structural grout to fill gap between paver and glass.  Not saying do it, but it might be an option.

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## n0ahz0rk

Thanks Bingl, I'll consider it next time I build a pool. It would save a bit of money you are right.

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## SpeedMeades

> Nice work, did you consider simply installing the glass into a groove in your concrete slab without using the aluminium channel?

  I did this and finished my 10m fence about 3 weeks ago. Had a channel about 75mm wide set by dropping a 3m 75x180 cypress post on its end about 80mm deep into the slab. Wrapped the post in plastic first so that when the concrete had set it slipped out nicely (except the middle one which cracked the concrete- see photos). Very easy to do and it seems just as strong as the aluminum channel. The highgrove support people said i should still use the channel but saved myself about 800 bucks doing without. 
See photos of construction and finished job... (pavers still need to be cleaned and sealed... and of course the pool interior and water  :Smilie:  ). Happy to answer questions if anyone needs help. 
PS. It was THIS thread that inspired me to build it myself. About $1300 for the glass (6x1200, 1x800 and gate/hinge panels), hinge and latch pack. Window packers were a life saver... an absolute must if you're using the channel system.

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## jiggy

Just wondering what happens if a panel breaks or chips,  how do you remove / replace? I love the look of the frameless but thinking it might be better to have the mini posts.

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## GiveItAGo

Hi, Great job on the fence! 
I'm ready to set and brace my glass in teh channel. 
My question is: How "flowable" is the Lanko 702 when mixed as per spec?  You said a cut-off funnel was used, which assumes it was quite a liquid consistency, if so, why the need to smooth it out - won't it find it's natural level itself? 
Thanks, 
Dave

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## n0ahz0rk

Hi Dave, 
The Lanko 702 flows quite well... we had to mix and pour several bucket loads, in failing light... so the consistency was... inconsistent you might say. Some of the batches probably needed more water, as we had to sort of shake the funnel a bit to get it to slide out. Also the funnel I used was ribbed, so it stated to clog after a while - resulting in more shaking, and more mess that needed smoothing out.  
We probably didn't follow the spec on the packets regarding the quantities of water, from memory there may have been a few different options. I think by the end of the day (setting up panels and mixing + pouring grout in same day) we didn't have the time to worry about the spec on the pack. 
If you have plenty of daylight left, you can take your time and get it done much better. I know I will next time. 
Cheers.

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## GiveItAGo

Thanks for your quick reply.   
I was already going to take your advice and pour the next day!  The Lanko specs vary from a dry mix to a fluid mix, (between 2L and 5.1L per 20kg bag), and the compressive strength reduces accordingly, but it sounds like I don't have to be too precise in my mixing!  (I presume your fence is still standing and has been through a bit by now!)  
My project is on a timber deck, so hopefully my decking will cover-up any blemishes due to my pouring efforts. 
Cheers.

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## Bros

Bump

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## Clubby

No, all I can see is the Attachment Thumbnail icon.

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## Clubby

All good now, I was using my mobile. Just logged in on my desktop and I can see them now.
Thanks

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## Clubby

I after some advise,
When Im laying my decking, how close to the glass do I have the timber. I was thinking 5mm away but will dirt & stuff get stuck in there.
Also (I know this is a long shot) Im after around 200mm of this channel. Does anyone have any? Im not keen on purchasing 3m if I don't have too.

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## GeoffW1

> I don't think a top channel is required for a pool fence, only as a top rail for a balastrade.

  Hi, 
That is certainly what we were told by 3 different glass pool fence companies here in sunny Sydney. I originally fancied a minimal top edge channel for confidence. 
Cheers

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## Bros

Just a note this thread is 4 years old and should only be used for reference as the original posters would more then likely left. If there is more on this please start a new thread but by you can refer back to here but no more posts here please. 
Some forums lock posts automatically after 12 mths.

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