# Forum Home Renovation Roofing  removing load bearing wall

## brad3314

hi all am looking at removing this wall that separates the lounge and kitchen .
 i've been doing some research as to how i'm going to support the ceiling when i remove it i've come up with what i think is something like what i'll have to do. so i've included some pics so you can see what i am trying to acheive. 
first step - put up temporary supports for celing beams either side of wall  
second - Remove wall and install 2 jacks studs next to king stud one end. 
third - install new timber support beam  
fourth - install jack studs at other end   
each red line represents 1 stud in the pics and the beam at the top  
am i somwhere near or not at all  :Confused:  
also what detemins the width of the beam  the span is around 4.5 metres.

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## ringtail

Ok, first things first. Tiled roof or tin roof ? I'm assuming that the ceiling joists run perpendicular to the wall to be removed ? Have you been up in the roof ? If not, get up there and have a good long look at what that wall is supporting. Is there any roof load imposed on that wall through strutting beams or props ? Most hyne beams are 65 mm wide and vary in depth depending on there intended load. Most have a camber in them and have a C after the dimensions to indicate this. The camber is placed up obviously. Also consider putting a beam in the roof and strapping the ceiling joists up to it, rather than a beam underneath the ceiling joists. It looks a bit neater but is a bit more difficult to do. It would pay to get a engineer, architect or builder to size the beam and design a connection for that intersecting wall juction, especially if there is load projected on to that junction. I'd say you will need at least a 300 C x65  beam.

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## Andy T

Brad - I have just gone through a similar process but only a 2.1m beam. If the wall is load bearing you will also need to have the job lodged with the council and approved by a building surveyor. If you sell the house you a a duty of disclosure to the new owner that any works have been approved. You do not need to lodge a building approval as work of this kind is classed as a minor building works. It will need approval and inspection and sign off by a building surveyor. Determining the correct beam is complex and in your case I would recommend a structural engineer to advise. For my wall removal I removed the cladding, acrow propped the top plate and checked out the studs the width and depth of the beam for the beam to fit up hard under the top plate, ensuring that the end studs were a tight fit to fit the beam into. Finished off triple studded each end and screwed through the top plate into the beam. Studs were then cut off level with the bottom of the beam. You have got a fairly big span there and really need to seek professional advice on site 
cheers 
Andy

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## Bloss

:What he said:  - and it might be easier to put a beam in the roof - fix the load bearing members to it and then remove the hole wall below. You might still be able to DIY it, but not unless you are highly competent or have help that is. They look like 150s-60s cornice so a cut-in roof.

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## brad3314

thanks yeah ringtail it is a tin roof and yes ceiling joists are perpindicular to the wall have been in ceiling space there is also a roof brace coming off it as well i was intending on getting help i have a few builder mates so that will make life easier just wanted to get some basic info to prepare for when the time comes never thought of putting the beam in the roof i also know a few architects to so no worries there

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## ringtail

good luck with it mate. I like the beam in roof option because firstly, you can get the beam up and in, secured, all the ceiling joists strapped off nice and tight before you even consider cutting the wall below out. Then when you cut the studs below there should be minimal if any movement, which is great for not jambing saws etc... You can even leave the cornice and a little bit of wall ( 200 mm for example ) then just frame the opening with jamb and arch. I'll post some pics of the latest one I did. Just gotta find em. Of course if the beam is to be a feature go that way. Ive got pics of both. Tin roof is gold. Bugger all weight up there.

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## ringtail

Ok, I found the photos. These are 2 different jobs showing the two different methods. Beam under top plate and beam in roof above ceiling joists. I apologise for any distortion in the photos that give images a slightly cambered look.    New F17 beam, trimmer and nail plates    Beam cut to pitch of roof with trimmer sitting on top plate    Beam bolted to rafter, GI straps on ceiling joists   The other end. The strap is to stop the beam rotating.   Sheeting cut off the wall.   Jamb and arch.   Second method. Big ass beam, wall junction   Wall to be removed next to ladder   Done. Dunno who the ugly mug is.

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## Bloss

Makes me envious seeing that nice HW timber!

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## ringtail

Ha, yup it grows on trees up here bwahahahahahahaha. Seriously though, the beam I put in the roof is a renewable product called supa 17 KD. Its unreal, super perfect in all aspects except durability, fine if painted for semi exposure but perfect for hanging beams and floor joists. Pretty cheap too. The beam under option is just the standard 265 x 65 C 
I just found the invoice for the LGL. Its a 270 x 65 18C. Nice.

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## brad3314

cool thanks for the pics i've since had a couple of people look at the wall and i've been told to put a 300 x 65 lvl beam across does that sound right ?  i'll just go with the underneath option just going to be easier i think. 
i was told to cut the width and depth of the beam out of the original studs then put beam in place and nail off to studs and obviously resting on end studs as well and then cut the old studs out. sound right ?  
does a temporary wall still have to be in place to do so ?
does it matter that the beam is only 65mm and not the full width of the studs ? 
here is some pics after we've taken the plaster off and a pic of how i was told to put it in.

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## Bedford

Do you intend to have no lounge or kitchen doors when you remove this wall? 
If you want the doors, you might have to think about only taking the lounge section out, otherwise it will still need those studs at the junction of the two doors.

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## Andy T

Brad - pretty much the method I used to open up a doorway. I checked out the studs the depth of the beam but such that the beam was hard under the top plate. I used a couple of acrow props to support the plate whilst checking out the studs. When I got to inserting the beam I used a bit of cut off stud between the prop and plate so the plate was still supported whilst i got the beam in place.  
What you suggest is pretty much it. make sure you have at least double studs at each end to support the weight. I used 3 studs. If you can span the beam further past the opening by another stud,  all the better. Just make sure when you check out your end studs that the beam will be a snug fit otherwise you will have to pack the gap. For the studs you will cut off later below the beam you can make the checkout a bit bigger as it will not matter.

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## brad3314

thanks yeah bedford both the doorways are coming out

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