# Forum Home Renovation Sub Flooring  ok how do i attach bearers to stumps?

## bingoshelley

ok now how do i attach the bearers to the stumps obviously i put the ant caps on the top of each stump then do you use straps or what to fix the bearers thx :Biggrin:

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## echnidna

If they're timber stumps you nail them on with 3" skew nails

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## Purse

> If they're timber stumps you nail them on with 3" skew nails

  
So the framing gun will punch nails through the ant cap??  :Confused:  
Cheers
Purse

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## echnidna

yes

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## seriph1

nails through the ant caps? .....and how!   :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:

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## Bleedin Thumb

Ahhh..... Bingoshelley do you have concrete stumps?

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## Outbackrr

In earlier posts BS has 90x90 timber stumps. 
Assuming she's in N1 or N2 area, nominal fixing only required. And yes, skew nailing is permitted but strapping is also required with skew nailing.

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## echnidna

don't think you need strapping in Vic.

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## Outbackrr

Bob, the mention of skew nailing got me curious so I checked my AS1684, they state nails _plus_ GI strap for nominal fixing of bearers to timber stumps.

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## Purse

> Bob, the mention of skew nailing got me curious so I checked my AS1684, they state nails _plus_ GI strap for nominal fixing of bearers to timber stumps.

  
So how do you put strap and ant caps on? 
Just curious as i too read that in the AS1684.  I will be fitting my bearers next week and it had me perplexed. :Confused:

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## silentC

You cut a slit in the ant cap to allow the strap to pass through and then you seal the hole with No More Solder (which is a termite resistant sealant).

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## peter_sm

Why are antcaps required on concrete stumps?

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## echnidna

termites will build a mud tunnel up the side of a concrete stump

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## journeyman Mick

If there are any voids or faults in the concrete stump the termites could still tunnel through it. The cap will force them out and make their galeries visible. 
Mick

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## silentC

Properly vibrated concrete is acceptable as a termite barrier - ie a slab. I reckon you could make a case for concrete stumps to fall into the same category. They probably still wouldn't let you though. I suppose the pier cap would make them more visible than if they were just running up the outside of the stump. 
Part of my place is on Duragal steel stumps and there is no pier cap.

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## thebuildingsurv

ant caps are not required on concrete stumps. And technically you can not nail though an antcap on a timber stump, the diagram in the termite code AS 3660.1 shows a bracket that bolts from the bearer to the side of the stump, howeve I have only seen them used once.

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## silentC

I haven't seen a timber stumped house up here, if you exclude the really old joints. However, the framing manual shows the nominal fixing for bearer to timber stump as 4/3.75mm nails and a G.I. strap perforating the pier cap - nailed to the sides of the stump and to the top of the bearer. 
I have seen one place (a transportable school building) that was on besser block stumps and the tie down was by steel cable attached to the bearer and to a steel eye bolt embedded in the footing. I thought that wasn't a bad idea to avoid the problem of pier cap penetration. Probably would need engineer's design though.

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## Bleedin Thumb

My kids school has just got some demountables and they have tensioned chain holding the building to the base of the stump running up at a 30 deg angle to the bearer

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## journeyman Mick

> ............AS 3660.1 shows a bracket that bolts from the bearer to the side of the stump, howeve I have only seen them used once.

  Come up north and you'll see heaps of old Queenslanders (high set timber houses) with this tie down connection.  
Mick

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## nev25

I had my house re-stumped a few years ago
I'm in Victoria and the re-stumper used concrete stumps no ant caps.
And he just hung the stump from the bearer and concreted the footing in.
So technically the bearer is just sitting on the stump not attached except for a thin bit of wire that it was hung from.  
Is this right???

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## autogenous

Noticed today some stumps with bitumen on top of the stump then ant cap then bearer. 
No nailing between the bearer and the stump 
The bitumen must prevent rust via moisture under the cap? 
The bitumen based product painted on to the top of the stump must make for a good termite deterrent as well. Anything thick and petroleum based they must hate chewing through? 
The best stumps Ive seen were 225mm PVC pipes filled with concrete and 10mm tie down bolt up the side of the bearer.

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## Purse

> I had my house re-stumped a few years ago
> I'm in Victoria and the re-stumper used concrete stumps no ant caps.
> And he just hung the stump from the bearer and concreted the footing in.
> So technically the bearer is just sitting on the stump not attached except for a thin bit of wire that it was hung from.  
> Is this right???

  AS3660.1 says there is no requirement for an ant cap on concrete stumps as long as the stump has no path for ant to travel internally. 
As for attachment, the concrete stump should have had a fixing protruding from the stump and through the bearer, then either bent over the bearer or fastened (AS1684.2). 
Cheers
Purse

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## Alto

Just wondering if there is a standard way of fixing rectangular section, hollow steel joists  to concrete stumps.  
Thanks

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## Alto

My own version of BingoShelley's question about attaching stumps to bearers is - what is the standard way of attaching concrete stumps to rectangular section hollow steel bearers?
Appreciate any advice.

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## journeyman Mick

Do you already have concrete stumps installed? If not, I'd go for steel stumps and weld the stumps to the bearers.  
Mick

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## Metung

Why would you need nails if you have GI strap? Whatever the logic is should probably be applied to stud and top/bottom plate connection shouldn't it? Imagine the outcry!

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