# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  Best metal work tools you own or would like to own ... :)

## Marc

If I had to say which one of my metal work tools I like the most, I will have to say it is the Feins magnetic base drill doubling up with the core drilling bits. 
The bliss of drilling any size hole without a twist drill that jams, rattles, can not cope and needs pilot or steps or resharpening every day ... 
DId I mention drilling 10 mm plate with the pressure of one finger? Drilling vertical beams? Upside down?   :Biggrin:

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## Uncle Bob

My dream machine would be a water jet or lazer cutter. Though before that I'd like a press break, guillotine, Tig welder, rollers and the list goes on  :Smilie:

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## PlatypusGardens

I don't think I can single out just one tool/machine
they're all equally valuable and get plenty of use. 
Even if some, like the bench grinder only gets used for 5 seconds at a time, mostly the wire wheel, and others like the welder get used for hours on end. 
As soon as one of them is out of action I notice how much they get used.   
I would love a BIG metal lathe (and the space for it  :Rolleyes: ) 
BIG... as in *BIG* as in 250-300mm chuck grip capacity and 1000-1200 bed.    :Shock:     
Maybe one day   :Smilie:

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## METRIX

Cordless Grinder, and my Transmig

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## Marc

Yes, all good choices. 
About the water jet, they need massive amounts of power and cost a bomb. However you can still have a very fancy CNC cutting table with a biggish plasma cutter in water. 
Big Big​ lathe, they are fun. if you have the room you can get them at auction sometimes very cheap from factory that close down, and they do so all the time unfortunately. 
Welder, sure, couldn't do without it. Cordless grinder ... I dunno, can't get used to it, always reach for the Milwaukee twins. \\ 
Which reminds me to add to my wish list this little baby, now that they have figured it out, and works as well as the corded one that never got to us,  and it sells here almost at the same price as in the US ...

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## PlatypusGardens

Hmm yes actually a decent size floor mounted bansaw for metal would be great.
Quiet, but a bit slow, but that's ok, set it up, let it do the cutting while you tinker with something else.
Far more pleasant than a noisy cutoff saw.  
Hm. 
ok  
I dream of a cold cut mitre saw too I suppose.
Maybe next year   
Sigh

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## Marc

Macson Metal Lathe Auction &#40;0010-7011798&#41; &#124; GraysOnline Australia

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## PlatypusGardens

> Big Big​ lathe, they are fun. if you have the room you can get them at auction sometimes very cheap from factory that close down, and they do so all the time unfortunately.

  
yeh just gotta be in the right place at the right time.    
Dunno if I said this already but a mate told a story about someone he knew somewhere who responded to an ad in the local paper about "metal working machines" for sale.
Turns out it was a widow selling her hubby's gear. 
There was every machine you could think of. 
lathe
drillpress
bandsaw
Press
bender
sheet folding machine
notcher
welders
english wheel (is that what they're called?)
rivet guns
big vices, anvils, hammers
etc
and more
and then some 
EVERYTHING
And 3 of everything. 
He got it all for some ridiculous price, and had already found buyers for half of it before he had loaded it on his truck.  
All good everyone happy deal done.    
A week later the old lady rings him and asks when he's coming to get the rest.....
He goes back and there's another shed with just about the same amount of stuff  :Shock: 
the old boy had been buying and collecting machines for years, decades. 
Apparently he ended up giving her another "couple" grand as he made a shedload of cas from selling the second lot of gear.  
And he still walked away with a full workshop setup for himself.    
Maybe one day that will happen to me   :Sigh:

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## PlatypusGardens

> Macson Metal Lathe Auction (0010-7011798) | GraysOnline Australia

  
That would take up the best part of my shed haha  
Not to mention the fact that I'd never get it in there in the first place.....maybe take the roof off and crane it in   :Unsure:

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## Marc

Talking about BIG ... PG, do you ever see an anvil for sale when you go metal hunting? I am after a larger anvil 100k and above. Some do come up on gumtree and ebay but they are either in deplorable state or priced higher than new. 
This is the one I _ really_  would like ... about 2000 euros FOB Sydney, a bit pricey for now  :Smilie:  but considering some lunatic prices on ebay for abused wrecks, it's actually cheap.   http://www.blksmth.com/images/large_...0a%20small.jpg 
Germany has 19% VAT (GST) thank you greenies  :Frown:  
OK may be a bit too big that lathe, but you see the price? Giveaway, that must have costed 50,000 new. It's an auction I know but it will probably go for a few thousands if that.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Talking about BIG ... PG, do you ever see an anvil for sale when you go metal hunting?

  Nah never seen one.....Bet they get snapped up quicksmart. 
I have a couple of bits of railway track that I use to beat metal in to submission and shape from time to time.
Solid stuff those tracks.     

> OK may be a bit too big that lathe, but you see the price? Giveaway, that must have costed 50,000 new. It's an auction I know but it will probably go for a few thousands if that.

  Yeh true.

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## PlatypusGardens

> Germany  
> greenies  
> .

  didn't germany have big windfarms but took them down because people thought they were ugly?
 Or got headaches from the low frequency rumble....  :Rolleyes:  
mass hypochondria.
It's a thing.    
Maybe that was Denmark or Sweden....not sure.

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## ringtail

CNC Plasma cutter and the shed to put it in would be awesome

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## Marc

They make 1x1 and 1x2m CNC tables no problem. The cost is in the quality plasma cutter required and if you want to cut under water, 3 phase essential. Yes, the robotic arms and the program has to be up to the task too. Prices are coming down though as more manufacturers enter the market. 
I knew a robotic engineer that left the market due some sort of middle age crisis that told me how cutthroat the market had become, and that was 10 years ago

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## ringtail

Bargains come up from time to time. A fella down the road at the farm picked up one for $1500 complete but it had a dud motor drive and a computer issue. Both problems solved for under 500 so a bargain all in all.

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## cyclic

The one metal tool I cannot live without is my oxy kit.

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## Marc

Hi cyclic... is a a D size oxy/acetylene cylinder a good choice for occasional heating and cutting or will it run out too soon? Yes I know the string length and all that, just an idea.

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## ringtail

Haven't used an oxy since college. I'd love one for silver soldering though. Mapp gas is bollocks on 3/4 copper

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## Marc

Yes, considering buying a couple of oxy/acetylene cylinders from Bunnings size D. Only concern is that they may be too small. I would use them when I need to heat something small rather than the whole piece in the forge.

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## ringtail

They do the bottle swap thing now don't they ?

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## cyclic

> Hi cyclic... is a a D size oxy/acetylene cylinder a good choice for occasional heating and cutting or will it run out too soon? Yes I know the string length and all that, just an idea.

  D is ok if for the home handyman.
Most plumbers I see still carry D size.
If that is the size Bunnies keep, then you have nothing to lose.
I still have E size simply because they are 90% full.
Sometimes at garage sales and on Gumtree you are able to pick up bottles with some gas, don't buy empties, they can't be refilled and  you need an account to get full bottles, and they will ask questions as to where you got the bottles from.
I have an oxy and acetylene gauge in the car for when I come across bottles.
You would not believe the amount of people selling them and saying they are full because they are so heavy. lol
Don't buy a new kit, they are a dime a dozen, pick up a good second hand kit for less than $40.
Less than they are worth in scrap brass and copper but take your bottles with you to test any second hand kit.

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## Marc

> They do the bottle swap thing now don't they ?

   Sure do. Bunnings has d size, total tool and other tool places have jumped at the me too opportunity but with e size. 
I'll give d a try, I can always return them if they turn out to bee too small. Gas is of course dearer in the smaller cylinder. 
So people are selling rental cylinders?  :Shock:

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## cyclic

> Sure do. Bunnings has d size, total tool and other tool places have jumped at the me too opportunity but with e size. 
> I'll give d a try, I can always return them if they turn out to bee too small. Gas is of course dearer in the smaller cylinder. 
> So people are selling rental cylinders?

  Yea, there are a lot of bottles sitting in sheds that people have managed to aquire ??, there was even a BOC dealer in Brisbane a few years ago advertising to buy empties on Gumtree, or might have been Trading Post.
He was offering $20 a bottle.
Keep an eye on Gumtree, there was a set of E size full bottles, with kit and hoses 2 years ago on the Gold Coast sold very quickly for $150.
I once saw some sold at a liquidation/receiver auction.
I did read on here some time back about Bunnies getting cranky if you held their bottles for a long period without getting more, but if the deal is pay once then refill at refill prices, then that is their problem.

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## Bros

> Yea, there are a lot of bottles sitting in sheds that people have managed to aquire ??, there was even a BOC dealer in Brisbane a few years ago advertising to buy empties on Gumtree, or might have been Trading Post.
> He was offering $20 a bottle.

  There must be thousands of bottles out there that have been acquired I have even seen oxy bottles at the dump complete with valve. Now what will I do with mine when they are empty?

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## cyclic

> Sure do. Bunnings has d size, total tool and other tool places have jumped at the me too opportunity but with e size. 
> I'll give d a try, I can always return them if they turn out to bee too small. Gas is of course dearer in the smaller cylinder. 
> So people are selling rental cylinders?

  Just got some prices up here for the heck of it. 
Bunnies  
D   Oxy Start up $269 includes $200 refundable deposit if you give up the bottle. Refill $69
D   Acety Start up $299 "   "      "     "       "               "              "                                                                                                 Refill $99 
Total Tools 
E   Oxy Start up $429 and you own the bottle Refill $129
E   Acety Start up $499 "         "           "     "                           Refill $150
You would need to have a lot of use at Total prices. 
Total are also doing mig gases.

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## cyclic

> There must be thousands of bottles out there that have been acquired I have even seen oxy bottles at the dump complete with valve. Now what will I do with mine when they are empty?

  Yea, know what you mean, they are everywhere.

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## Bros

> Just got some prices up here for the heck of it. 
> Bunnies  
> D   Oxy Start up $269 includes $200 refundable deposit if you give up the bottle. Refill $69
> D   Acety Start up $299 "   "      "     "       "               "              "                                                                                                 Refill $99 
> Total Tools 
> E   Oxy Start up $429 and you own the bottle Refill $129
> E   Acety Start up $499 "         "           "     "                           Refill $150
> You would need to have a lot of use at Total prices. 
> Total are also doing mig gases.

  Who actually owns these bottles in the first place as they have to be filled by someone and regularly inspected?

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## Marc

The "own your own bottle and refill when you are ready" is a relatively new situation for the welding market.
 It started with argon mixes because there are no special requirements to store argon bottles. OXy and acetylene have always been a rental monopoly. 
Only recently, in the last 2 years if that, the hardware and tool stores managed to brake the monopoly for the little guy that uses a couple of cylinders a year and managed to wrestle a permit from council to store flammable cylinders. 
Rent is still the cheapest option if you use a lot of welding gas. 
As far as the bottles, the rental bottles belong to BOC or other companies and are sold illegally. I could sell my argon mix bottle from speedgas but speedgas reserve the right for exclusive refill. So if speedgas goes broke I will have to negotiate with someone else to refill and don't like my chances. 
The Bunnings bottles belong to Bunnings and the customer can not sell them just return them to them. 
I don't know the situation of ownership with the e size oxy acetylene bottles from the tool shops like total toos or united tools, but if one owns them, and can sell them, that's should be ok. 
From your comments though I gather that the many cylinders that are for sale out there are not from this recent events that people have purchased them legally but abandoned rental cylinders from some time ago, that if taken to BOC for refill will be the object of questioning their provenience unless you are a rental customer than may be you can slip through the cracks.   
The rental cylinder records are probably messy. When I returned my rental argon cylinder to the boc agent and bought one from speedgas I had letters from BOC for 2 years asking for the cylinder back.

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## Spottiswoode

I wish I had a proper device for driving my welder. The one I have isn't very good at it  :Wink:

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## Marc

Device? oh I get it, you mean yourself?  :Rofl5:

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## Spottiswoode

> Device? oh I get it, you mean yourself?

  Wasn't sure I wanted to describe myself as a tool  :Tongue:

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## cyclic

> From your comments though I gather that the many cylinders that are for sale out there are not from this recent events that people have purchased them legally but abandoned rental cylinders from some time ago, that if taken to BOC for refill will be the object of questioning their provenience unless you are a rental customer than may be you can slip he cracks.  through t 
> The rental cylinder records are probably messy. When I returned my rental argon cylinder to the boc agent and bought one from speedgas I had letters from BOC for 2 years asking for the cylinder back.

  The cylinders out there are from many moons ago, some from probably CIG before BOC took over.
BOC now have a bar code tag attached to all bottles so they know exactly who took it out, but the barcode tag system only came in late 90's early 2000's,  so until then they literally had no idea which bottle was where, all they knew was I took out one E Oxy and one E Acety and you had to make sure you kept your paperwork for the returns because their system was an absolute disgrace.
For many years when calling BOC the answer message started with "If you have a letter from Dunn and Bradstreet, please press one", and they were always telling me I had more bottles out than I did until I quoted return invoice numbers.
"Oh, yes, there it is" was their reply.
On the high rise jobs and the larger commercial/industrial projects it was a constant battle to keep tabs on bottles.
It was a case of try to leave the job with more bottles than you started with.

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## Bros

> The Bunnings bottles belong to Bunnings and the customer can not sell them just return them to them.

  I would be very surprised if that is the case as the gas bottles they sell dont belong to them they are owned by the purchaser but Elgas is the company responsible for filling and testing. I don't believe Bunnings would be into that they are just the "middle man" and retail them for a significant margin so my questions still remains who is responsible for testing and filling?

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## Marc

Probably need rephrasing. You pay a deposit for the Bunnings cylinders, you are responsible for the cylinders and get $200 when you return them. They do not sell you the cylinders, regardless of who actually owns them and you are right it is the gas company not bunnings.  
Speedgas on the other hand sold me the cylinder (not the welders supplies who is the middleman) and If I want to make a garden ornament with it I can.  
BOC rents the cylinder for a yearly fee and refills only their bottles much cheaper than the refill from bunnings or Total tools. 
No one can legally sell rental cylinders but it seems many bottles left behind end up on ebay or gumtree.  It will probably be difficult to get someone to refill them.

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## cyclic

> I would be very surprised if that is the case as the gas bottles they sell dont belong to them they are owned by the purchaser but Elgas is the company responsible for filling and testing. I don't believe Bunnings would be into that they are just the "middle man" and retail them for a significant margin so my questions still remains who is responsible for testing and filling?

  The Company owning the bottles is responsible for testing and filling.
In the case of Total Tools the owner of the bottles is a company(used to have the details but no longer do) down Grafton/Woolongong/Sydney way.
In the case of Bunnies, no idea who their supplier is. If it is Elgas then so be it.
There is nothing stopping one from selling the Bunnies bottles but you would then never be able to recoup your $200 deposit paid to Bunnies.
As for BOC/CIG/Liquid Air and similar rental bottles, any one selling them is selling something they do not own so could be charged with theft by finding, or goods suspected of being stolen.
Now to the rent charged by BOC, you have to do your own calculations as to which supplier is the better deal over the long term and I would have to think if you were not going to refill a bottle for a few years then Bunnies would be best as opposed to paying rent to BOC etc of approx $3.50/week/bottle every year. 
The more important thing everyone must be aware of is, and I stand corrected, the bottles supplied by Bunnies and Total Tools are less capacity than the BOC bottles.

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## Bros

> Total Tools 
> E   Oxy Start up $429 and you own the bottle Refill $129
> E   Acety Start up $499 "         "           "     "                           Refill $150

  I notice on their web site the absence of Acetylene. There are quite few doing oxy and probably argon as it is just a matter of decanting the gas but filling Acetylene is a different ball game so there would be very few companies with the expertise and more importantly equipment to fill Acetylene cylinders. 
My FIL used to work for CIG many many years ago and filled Acetylene cylinder but I never paid much attention as my attention was elsewhere but from memory it used to be a long process.
Be interesting to know who is behind these cylinders as the big boys BOG and Air Liquide had a cosy monopoly.

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## cyclic

> I notice on their web site the absence of Acetylene. There are quite few doing oxy and probably argon as it is just a matter of decanting the gas but filling Acetylene is a different ball game so there would be very few companies with the expertise and more importantly equipment to fill Acetylene cylinders. 
> My FIL used to work for CIG many many years ago and filled Acetylene cylinder but I never paid much attention as my attention was elsewhere but from memory it used to be a long process.
> Be interesting to know who is behind these cylinders as the big boys BOG and Air Liquide had a cosy monopoly.

  Pretty sure Total have just taken on the Acetylene.

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## Marc

Yes, only a few month ago.  
The bunnings gas is Coregas.  Coregas â Trade N Go Gasâ¢ is So Easy â Available at Bunnings Warehouse

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## havabeer

i would love a home sized smaller version of this fella we own at work. drilling holes is for chumps when you can punch out a 26mm hole in 8mm steel about 2 seconds. cuts just about every shape of steel as well.

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## Marc

Negotiating with this guys to supply one with 240V 50hz motor, this seems to have bamboozled them a bit. May have to supply the motor myself.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-NL...ature=youtu.be

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## ringtail

Well that's just cheating.  :Biggrin:

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## toooldforthis

> Talking about BIG ... PG, do you ever see an anvil for sale when you go metal hunting? I am after a larger anvil 100k and above. Some do come up on gumtree and ebay but they are either in deplorable state or priced higher than new. 
> This is the one I _ really_  would like ... about 2000 euros FOB Sydney, a bit pricey for now  but considering some lunatic prices on ebay for abused wrecks, it's actually cheap.   http://www.blksmth.com/images/large_...0a%20small.jpg  _Germany has 19% VAT (GST)_ thank you greenies  
> OK may be a bit too big that lathe, but you see the price? Giveaway, that must have costed 50,000 new. It's an auction I know but it will probably go for a few thousands if that.

  whenever I buy stuff from UK/Germany etc I ask for VAT to be taken off since Oz is not in the EU.
they oblige 90% of the time.

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