# Forum Home Renovation Waterproofing  Tiled shower on second floor (timber floor boards)

## Ben_82

Hi all, just wondering if there are any negatives to installing a shower on timber floorboards. Will be installing a hob from hebel blocks and creating a mortar base on tile underlay, then tiling. Any issues with this as it's on a second floor consisting of floor boards and joists. Thanks.

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## Cecile

Regardless of ground floor or first floor, you must install a waterproof membrane within the shower recess.  Are you planning to tile the entire floor or leave polished timber outside the shower recess? 
There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, so someone who knows the rules better than I do will likely come in and give you some guidance.

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## Oldsaltoz

> Hi all, just wondering if there are any negatives to installing a shower on timber floorboards. Will be installing a hob from hebel blocks and creating a mortar base on tile underlay, then tiling. Any issues with this as it's on a second floor consisting of floor boards and joists. Thanks.

  Hi Ben,
Not a good idea, Timber and water are not a good mix at the best of times, though it can look great when new.
This being a renovation I suspect the flooring is not new and will have had the very expensive but often short lived treatment. 
The standards require the full floor to be waterproofed as well as the wall to floor interface right around all walls and a water stop angle in the doorway to prevent getting out of the room. 
A cost effective alternative may be to get the floor fully sealed and lay some vinyl  over it with a timber pattern perhaps. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## Ben_82

Sorry I should have made myself a bit clearer. I will be tiling the entire bathroom (walls and floors) and definitely using a waterproof membrane in the shower recess and bathroom floor. Just wondering if a tiled shower base built up on timber floorboards will create any issues? For example, movement in the floorboards?

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## Oldsaltoz

Then you have no real problems, just ensure the tile underlay is put down in a brick pattern as per the James Hardy instruction sheet, also make sure you the right nails (Not clouts). The heads of all nails MUST be flush or just below to avoid damage to the waterproofing. 
Most builders would prefer you remove the timber floor and replace it with Cement fibre sheeting between 15 and 19 mm thicjk. Heavy back breaking work, but it will last a lifetime. 
Don't forget to install puddle flanges on floor wastes and a waterstop in the doorway, any and all through floor items Must be properly sealed. 
Your Plumber will know and may even supply the bits. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## grantbudd

I am in exactly the same boat as you just single floor but queenslander about 5ft from the ground. I am going to use a tile ready base as i am very worried about movement in the timber cracking the sand/cement base. I have used a pre made complete shower base in one bathroom and I went above and over the waterproofing requirements.  
I used a bucket load of sikaflex but know its not going to spring a leek into the timber below. I also laid ceramic tile underlay on the floors all glued down with stud adhesive and nailed with ring shank gal nails. I have put up villaboard on all walls. We have had about 10 days of 25C weather here and the walls are moving and cracks are showing in new cornice so im not going to take any chances. Tile ready base and a small hob for me  :Redface: )

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## Oldsaltoz

> I am in exactly the same boat as you just single floor but queenslander about 5ft from the ground. I am going to use a tile ready base as i am very worried about movement in the timber cracking the sand/cement base. I have used a pre made complete shower base in one bathroom and I went above and over the waterproofing requirements.  
> I used a bucket load of sikaflex but know its not going to spring a leek into the timber below. I also laid ceramic tile underlay on the floors all glued down with stud adhesive and nailed with ring shank gal nails. I have put up villaboard on all walls. We have had about 10 days of 25C weather here and the walls are moving and cracks are showing in new cornice so im not going to take any chances. Tile ready base and a small hob for me )

  Have you looked into using an angle rather than a hob? it will give you more space inside the shower and is a lot less work as it needs no tiling thus avoiding the gig saw like procedure needed to tile one. 
Also note that hobs (Hebel stone) are very brittle, and the fact that sheeted or timber hobs are now illegal due to the high failure rate. 
A 50 mm by 50 mm i.5 mm thick available in almost all hardware stores is all you need. 
The only 'trick' is to remember that the tile must finish 5 mm below the angle on the inside of the shower, the shower screen is then fitted inside the angle so and water has to go up hill to get out. 
A simple strip of powder coated angle (or other material) bronze, chrome plated, brass, or even PVC is cut so that the top of the finishing angle sits in the original shower angle and butts up to the screen and the other leg rins down the face to the floor. 
Job done.   
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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## grantbudd

A 50 mm by 50 mm i.5 mm thick available in almost all hardware stores is all you need.  
The only 'trick' is to remember that the tile must finish 5 mm below the angle on the inside of the shower, the shower screen is then fitted inside the angle so and water has to go up hill to get out. 
So is there a minimum height the hob or angle MUST be above the tile base?  
The tile ready base is approx 30mm thick from memory. this leaves me with 20mm for the tile etc. The tile is 10mm thick on a 12mm adhesive bed so lets say 15mm once bedded down. This then leaves me 5mm protduding for the shower door seal to butt against when the door is closed. I'm worried that a 1.5mm x 5mm high strip will cause a good toe stubbing point? I know a hob is bigger but you see a hob and will have to physically step over it.  
The tile ready base has a tile ready hob that you cut to size. Im not worried about tile cuts as one tile will cover the full length. My tiles are 900 x 150mm. 
Any pics would be great  :Redface: ) 
Thanks 
Im about to start the en suite sheeting and will need to know what type of base and hob/entry I will have for waterproofing and checkouts etc 
Cheers

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## Oldsaltoz

> A 50 mm by 50 mm i.5 mm thick available in almost all hardware stores is all you need.  
> The only 'trick' is to remember that the tile must finish 5 mm below the angle on the inside of the shower, the shower screen is then fitted inside the angle so and water has to go up hill to get out. 
> So is there a minimum height the hob or angle MUST be above the tile base?   No, in fact the more the better, but 5 mm is generally accepted as the minimum when the shower screen is butted up to it, a small amount of sealant under and on the outer edge of the screed (inner edge of the angle) will prevent leaking. 
> The tile ready base is approx 30mm thick from memory. this leaves me with 20mm for the tile etc. The tile is 10mm thick on a 12mm adhesive bed so lets say 15mm once bedded down. This then leaves me 5mm protruding for the shower door seal to butt against when the door is closed. I'm worried that a 1.5mm x 5mm high strip will cause a good toe stubbing point? I know a hob is bigger but you see a hob and will have to physically step over it.  No, the shower screen frame base finishes above the 5 mm of angle, and it's on the outside, it's also covered by the cover angle, like an upside down upper case letter 'L'  
> I did attach a drawing to the post above but it seems it got lost. Will try again. 
> The tile ready base has a tile ready hob that you cut to size. Im not worried about tile cuts as one tile will cover the full length. My tiles are 900 x 150mm. 
> Any pics would be great ) 
> Thanks 
> I'm about to start the en suite sheeting and will need to know what type of base and hob/entry I will have for waterproofing and checkouts etc 
> Cheers

   
Let's hope this drawing shows /Edit, no it did not. 
Try the link below and download the waterproofing hand book.

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## Ben_82

Hey grantbudd, what is the tile ready base you plan on using? Did you consider an acrylic base, or prefer the look of tiles?

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## grantbudd

> Hey grantbudd, what is the tile ready base you plan on using? Did you consider an acrylic base, or prefer the look of tiles?

  To be honist I am not sure what to do...I dont mind any type of base and wanted an accrylic base but they dont make them for an alcove shower,,,Infact you cant get them for the configuration I need. My alcove is 1200 deep and 900 wide. The entry point is on the 900 side with the other 3 sides being the walls... 
I am a bit lost to be honest  :Redface: ( Id rather acrylic as its an old queenslander and there is movement that is unavoidable...I have the tiles for the tile ready base. They are the same as the rest of the house. A floorboard tile 900 x 150mm.

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## grantbudd

The shower screen will have no frame. I want to butt the end panel (300 wide) against the tiles on the left side wall or cut it into the wall (undecided) then I thought it would rest on the tile bed or step where i would silicon it in place. The door has 2 big hinges and the door seal would sit against the hob/angle ali strip.

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## Ben_82

> To be honist I am not sure what to do...I dont mind any type of base and wanted an accrylic base but they dont make them for an alcove shower,,,Infact you cant get them for the configuration I need. My alcove is 1200 deep and 900 wide. The entry point is on the 900 side with the other 3 sides being the walls... 
> I am a bit lost to be honest ( Id rather acrylic as its an old queenslander and there is movement that is unavoidable...I have the tiles for the tile ready base. They are the same as the rest of the house. A floorboard tile 900 x 150mm.

  Mizu Showers Mizu Walk-In Wetroom Shower System | Reece Bathroom Products ... This shower base any good to you?

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## grantbudd

> Mizu Showers Mizu Walk-In Wetroom Shower System | Reece Bathroom Products ... This shower base any good to you?

  If it has a tile bead around three sides then yes....Funny my other bathroom centre has a base that will work from shower co. We went through all the brochures and found nothing before. even a call to shower co was fruitless and now we have one with the opening on the 900 side and a rear or centre waste.  
From memory the guy at Reece said the tile bead was on both 900 sides and one 1200 side with entry on the 1200 side but the photo on your link shows a 900 entry.....That cedar base costs a FORTUNE!!!!! Looking around $450 from memory!!! Looks like a return to Reece too  :Redface: ) Quoted about $350 for the shower co base with rear waste.  
Thanks for the link I thought this was a dead and buried topic for acrylic bases....    :Redface: )

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## grantbudd

just blew up that pic of the mizzu shower base and there is only a tile bead on 2 sides...Weird that there are so few options out there for a 900x1200 alcove shower with entry on the 900 side only.

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## Oldsaltoz

> just blew up that pic of the mizzu shower base and there is only a tile bead on 2 sides...Weird that there are so few options out there for a 900x1200 alcove shower with entry on the 900 side only.

  Hi Grant, 
I have been holding back in the hope that you would find a suitable shower base with the three sides lipped as needed. 
As a waterproofing profesional myself I came across this very same problem a few years ago, just sticking a bit of sealant under the sheet would be a good practice. 
What I did was to add a lip using epoxy resin and a filler (Micro-fibers) to construct the lip. I have done a lot of boat building so for me it was pretty straight forward. But I am sure any handy person could do the same using an epoxy based based glue like Araldite and some talcum powder. 
Preparation is easy, masking tape to protect the base, then wipe down with Acetone, sand with a 200 grit, wipe with Acetone again, apply Aldite and talc mix, profile and leave to set for 24 hours.
Temperature should remain above 20*c for the first 4 hours. 
Keep in mind that none of this will seen when the wall sheets are in place. 
Good luck.   :Smilie:

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