# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  Using Sleepers Indoors

## Richard_1983

Hi all, 
I have a question regarding the use of railway sleepers indoors (the type they sell in Bunnings) 
I have had a thought about re-doing an internal staircase (only 4 rises) leading down to my lounge using railways sleepers. The staircae has to be replaced anyway becasue it is too steep. My idea is that I would plane the tops of the treads back to a clean finish and leave the front and risers natural. 
I remember reading a while ago about problems with using sleepers due the treatment they could have received when in use (arsenic?). Can someone please provide me with more information on this. If there is some official info that would be great. 
Do Bunnings not have to let you know if there are any potentially hazardous chemicals that you may be exposed to? Is there any way of testing the timber yourself to see if it is dangerous (apart from licking it and seeing what happens!!) 
If it is the case there there may be some arsenic present, is there any way of treating it or sealing it in to prevent any toxins from getting out. 
As you can tell, I would really like to use them!  :Tongue:  
Your help would be greatly appreciated. 
Richard

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## Gaza

Used hardwood, stuff treated pine

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## binda

What grade do they use for that sleeper wood? Is it the heart wood? I reckon it would be way too soft and would deform. The edges would split away was your foot rolled over the lip (in time). I understand the cost of hardwood is a little pricey but I think for steps you might be better off with hardwood then with anything made from pine. 
I have used treated pine structural beams for outdoor steps but they were no more then a metre high and get little foot traffic. Sleeper grade timber probably won't cut it for what you want to achieve.

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## UteMad

If its treated pine sleepers your referring to then its illegal atleast in new south wales to do what your suggesting.. would have to get old railways ( hwd ) or new hardwood.. The sleepers may well have a small tag stapeled on the ends to say its treated bla bla bla 
CCA with regards to decks is spose to be below flooring or atleast 1800 above the floor covering wich rules out pergola posts decking and handrails ( to avoid hand contact ).. i wouldn't have any kid of mine crawling over treated pine sleepers indoors then putting there fingers in there mouth plus you will get a smell off them in winter with the heater on  
cheers utemad

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## Metung

I interpret your post as meaning you want to use old red gum sleepers, plane the tread back to original timber and leave the riser with the rustic look. If so it sounds like a great idea to me. Unfortunately I can't advise on the safety issue with any authority but I can;t imagine there being a problem with old red gum sleepers.

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## Master Splinter

Use hardwood - pine is just too soft, it'll scrape and wear and take dents from high heels and generally not look nice.   
In a pinch you could laminate together some decking boards hiding a piece of 32mm thick MDF,but personally I'd go on the hunt for a timber supplier and use a nice chunk of jarrah or ironwood for the treads. 
If you are really keen on the pine look, you could probably buy a few sleepers 'pre-treatment' from your local mill.  http://www.csiro.au/resources/CCATre..._pageNo-5.html
or http://www.tpaa.com.au/ccasafe.htm 
(I think the scare over treated pine is getting into the realms of 'tinfoil hat' paranoia, but your milage may vary.)

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## pawnhead

> If its treated pine sleepers your referring to then its illegal atleast in new south wales to do what your suggesting..,,, 
> CCA with regards to decks is spose to be below flooring or atleast 1800 above the floor covering wich rules out pergola posts decking and handrails.

  Are you sure about that? No one has stopped selling TP decking in Sydney as far as I know (or is ACQ an aproved treatment :Confused: ). And if it's illegal to use it as decking, then I'd imagine that they'd get into a bit of strife by not informing people at the time of purchase that they can't legally use it.
I thought it was only banned in public parks and such.
Mind you, I wouldn't use the crap myself.

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## Richard_1983

Sorry I haven't been able to reply to this sooner. 
I think Metung was on the right track.
The sleepers I am talking about are hardwood (I presume). 
A few pallets of them just got delivered to my local Bunnings, they still have old steel fixtures attached to some which I presume are rail fixings? Or am I being dooped? I do know that you can also get treated pine sleepers (they look kind of green and are pretty uniform in shape) but these are different, look very weathered and are quite irregular (i.e. It will probably take an afternoon to look through the pallets to get the best ones! 
Anyway, sorry for the confusion. Feel free to enlighten me now!  :Biggrin:

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## UteMad

> Are you sure about that? No one has stopped selling TP decking in Sydney as far as I know (or is ACQ an aproved treatment). And if it's illegal to use it as decking, then I'd imagine that they'd get into a bit of strife by not informing people at the time of purchase that they can't legally use it.
> I thought it was only banned in public parks and such.
> Mind you, I wouldn't use the crap myself.

  
Acq is not the same as CCA .. ACQ was brought to the front due to the fact that how could they sell CCA to the general public as decking when it wouldn't pass the 1800 rule.. ACQ and LOSP don't fall under the same ruling .. Maybe one day but the government is stupid and wont ban something until they have a viable alternative in place.. Maybe when plastic takes off ( hopefully not )   
Cheers utemad

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## UteMad

Old hardwood railways are fine inside just extremely heavy and a killer on tools..  
cheers utemad

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## Richard_1983

Cheers Utemad, 
Good News! 
When you say that they are killer on tools, does that imply that you get the best tool you can afford because it should perform better for longer or get a throw-away type because its going to get wrecked. I'm thinking about an electric plane to get the heavy stuff off first and then switching to a hand plane for the last bit. I think there will be approx. 12 sleepers  
Cheers, Richard

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## binda

In a timber species book I have the different timbers have a rating on the blunting effects they have on sharpened tools. Almost all Australian hardwoods have a severe blunting rating and I reckon railway sleepers would have to be native hardwood. 
I would love to see some before and after shots of this stair project. Be sure to post them.

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## GraemeCook

> In a timber species book I have the different timbers have a rating on the blunting effects they have on sharpened tools. Almost all Australian hardwoods have a severe blunting rating and I reckon railway sleepers would have to be native hardwood. 
> .

  Also, used sleepers are likely to have grains of sand and grit embedded in them. 
So what, electric plane blades do not cost a fortune.   Rough them down with an "expendable" blade - once you are past all the grit and weathering and into sound wood them use a new blade to fine plane, then perhaps your handplane. 
Cheers 
Graeme

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## Richard_1983

Thanks Graeme... 
Great idea about the 'expendable' blade! Should do the trick. 
If you have any recommendations for a good elec. planer then I'd be grateful.
I've been sticking to makita tools so far (early days) becasue they seem reliable but i'm open to other suggestions! 
Thanks again. 
p.s. I might do a pilot study on a small piece this weekend so I'll post the pics if I do

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## pawnhead

> If you have any recommendations for a good elec. planer then I'd be grateful.
> I've been sticking to makita tools so far (early days) becasue they seem reliable but i'm open to other suggestions!

   I've been through three of these already, and I wouldn't buy anything else. It's not the most powerful, but I've got a big powerful, reliable Metabo that does deep rebates, but I never use it anymore. I hate my brother's big DeWalt.
You could get this, but at 3.5kg, (and just by looking at how high the handle is), it looks like a pig of a thing. When you're scribing a piece of skirting board, whilst holding the planer on edge so you can see your scribe line, the last thing you want to be holding is a besser block with a handle on it. You want a light planer, with the handle down low, nearer the centre of gravity. Festool is supposed to be the bees knees, but you'd need to own a bank to buy one, and to keep pumping blades into it at four times the cost of standard blade inserts. 
The Makita's got good power, and it's nice and light, but it only rebates to about 10mm. But for acurate rebating you'd use a power saw, or a router anyway. I give my planers a good caning so they don't last forever. One actually blew up and caught fire after about the fiftieth hardwood door I was trimming down. Idiot builder ordered the wrong size doors.

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## binda

Wow, looks like Makita has discontinued the 1900 range of planners. I reckon they are the ducks nuts. I have picked up both the 1900 and the long bed 1100 from ebay for bugger all and they are great. It's nice to know that Makita carry spares for almost all their range and are fully serviceable. I even have a Makita weed eater simply because I know parts will always be available. i hope.

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## pawnhead

> Wow, looks like Makita has discontinued the 1900 range of planners.

  Where did you hear that?
I don't see how you could improve on the N1900B, apart from perhaps giving it a 12mm rebate capacity (standard door jamb rebate), and a rebate depth stop fence.

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## binda

well I just got the info from that link you posted for the Makita. My bad. The 1900B I think is still going strong. It must have been the 1923 thats cactus.

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## GraemeCook

> Thanks Graeme... 
> Great idea about the 'expendable' blade! Should do the trick. 
> If you have any recommendations for a good elec. planer then I'd be grateful.
> I've been sticking to makita tools so far (early days) becasue they seem reliable but i'm open to other suggestions! 
> Thanks again. 
> p.s. I might do a pilot study on a small piece this weekend so I'll post the pics if I do

  I have an elderly Makita 1900B that has proven to be almost indestructible.  Thoroughly recommend it. 
Cheers 
Graeme 
PS:  Re that suggestion on blades - I keep a "nail chomping blade" that I put into the planer whenever I am going to do any questionable timber.

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