# Forum Home Renovation Metalwork & Welding  Horse float rust treatment

## ajm

Folks, I have removed the floor in our horse float and was pleasantly surprised to find that if wasn't cactus. Still, I want to be rid of the little bit of dust that was there so that we can give it a new paint job. 
I have wire brushed most of it and the draw bar. I am leaning towards a rust converter approach. Unless anyone has advice box a different method. 
 Couple of questions:  can rust converter go onto springs? The back of the wheels? The draw bar? Does all paint have to be off first? What about inside the steel frame itself? Does it matter if it gets onto the wheels or cables, or woodwork? 
What do I need to do after the rust conversion treatment? Do I need to use a cold gal paint following rust conversion or do I go straight to undercoat then final coat? 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  
patalk

----------


## Marc

I lost faith in rust convertors, from a supporter to a detractor. 
Best is to clean the rust away with power brush, apply good quality cold gal, epoxy primer and top coat.  https://www.duluxprotectivecoatings....converters.pdf

----------


## ajm

OK. Does the gal go onto the springs too? 
atalk

----------


## Marc

If you have the patience to steel brush them I don't see why not. New springs come painted and zinc will slow down the corrosion process, however ... I have never seen a car owner, that bothers with painting the suspension. Is this to do with the horse peeing inside the float and rusting everything that way?

----------


## ajm

> If you have the patience to steel brush them I don't see why not. New springs come painted and zinc will slow down the corrosion process, however ... I have never seen a car owner, that bothers with painting the suspension. Is this to do with the horse peeing inside the float and rusting everything that way?

  Yep 
talk

----------


## Marc

Do a bit of research before you chose the right brand of cold gal primer and top coat. There are a few top brands, like rustoleum, hammerite and por15. 
I like to paint over cold gal with 2 parts epoxy primer like Luxepoxy4 from Dulux.  A bullet proof paint used on public works like bridges. The top coat over that primer is purely cosmetic and not required if you like white.

----------


## Bros

Inside, is the framework RHS?

----------


## droog

Choose the right rust converter first.
Acids are often used in rust converter, they are no good where you have overlapping metal as it remains trapped and does not get completely washed out, it is also no good for aluminium. 
I am using KBS Rust Blast for my vehicle restoration. https://www.kbs-coatings.com/rustblast.html 
Beware of the zinc rich coatings some of them do not like being over coated, etch primer can be helpful to ensure good bite into the surface and epoxy primers are the best for sealing water out of the end result. 
For areas where you cannot get to and remove all the rust there are rust converters combined with primers that may be of assistance. https://www.kbs-coatings.com/kbs-rust-converter.html

----------


## phild01

> https://www.kbs-coatings.com/rustblast.html

  Need something like this so hoping to find the 250ml locally somewhere :Confused:

----------


## droog

> Need something like this so hoping to find the 250ml locally somewhere

  Try local panel beating suppliers.

----------


## phild01

> Try local panel beating suppliers.

  One is listed locally that I thought shut long ago, will check...thanks!

----------


## Marc

> Choose the right rust converter first.
> Acids are often used in rust converter, they are no good where you have overlapping metal as it remains trapped and does not get completely washed out, it is also no good for aluminium. 
> Beware of the zinc rich coatings some of them do not like being over coated, etch primer can be helpful to ensure good bite into the surface and epoxy primers are the best for sealing water out of the end result. l

  Yep, phosphoric or Tannic acid is what rust converters are. Works in the lab, not so good in real life. Read my link above (post 2) 
Cash convertors on the other hand ... oh, never mind ...  :Smilie:  
If rust convertors worked as advertised, shipping yards would use them extensively. Instead they sandblast, undercoat with zinc and overcat with two parts epoxy.  
Best surface treatment for a large contraption like a horse float is hot dip galvanising. Since due to size constraints this would be expensive if not impossible, there is such thing as hot zinc spray or "metallisation".
Usually the same place that does this also does the sandblasting preparation. The spray is a combination of oxyacetilene or arc fusing zinc and compressed air spraying the molten metal on the surface. 
If you spray the float with zinc and then coat it with Luxepoxy 4, it will last a long time. of course cost is also a factor. I made some enquiries to do this process to a boat trailer, and surprisingly it was not as expensive as I thought. But that is a relative concept. Seen dump truck boxes treated this way.  https://www.rockpress.com.au/services/metal-spraying/ https://www.ccmp.com.au/services/trailers-horsefloat

----------


## ajm

The chassis is angle not rhs. The upper frame is shs. Some of these are rusted through where they join onto the chassis. I will be getting these replaced. It's the chassis and below (axles, leaf springs, and draw bar) that I intend to work on.  
I am going to be taking Marc's approach. Cold gal everything then paint what can be seen if need be.  
This is an interim float for us so can't justify the expense of blasting and recoating.
Ttalk

----------


## droog

> Cold gal everything then paint what can be seen if need be.

  There is no one correct way, they have all pro's and con's. Just make sure the zinc primer that you use is meant to be overcoated, I know what its like to have a finished product only to have it all peel off because of the zinc primer I used underneath.

----------


## Marc

True. Furthermore there are some fake zinc primers that are just zinc colour and not heavy metallic. Best way is to us a tin and a brush. You can tell if it is the real thing by the weight of the can. The one containing metallic zinc is twice as heavy as a paint tin. 
To coat HDG or cold gal you need an etching primer of a specialised primer for gal. 
As an aside ... can you fascion some sort of horse nappy to avoid urine spillage in transit? Hang a 20L can under his belly?  :Smilie:

----------


## ajm

Thanks droog. Good advice. I have done the same before myself, just not with zinc.  
atalk

----------


## ajm

> True. Furthermore there are some fake zinc primers that are just zinc colour and not heavy metallic. Best way is to us a tin and a brush. You can tell if it is the real thing by the weight of the can. The one containing metallic zinc is twice as heavy as a paint tin. 
> As an aside ... can you fascion some sort of horse nappy to avoid urine spillage in transit? Hang a 20L can under his belly?

  Easier yet. Leave the damn things in the paddock. Someone else's paddock St that. Cheaper that way.  
Ttalk

----------


## Bart1080

Hey AJM, I've done a few and assist with a few float reno's.  Forget the rust converters. Need to mechanically wire brush where you can, cut out if its bad (your SHS)  For a cheap job: similar to Marc's approach and Droog's advice. Zinc/gal paint brush or spray. 
I've generally applied 2 coats of spray on gal and 2 to 3 coats of matt or gloss black.  Dont worry about the spray getting on the hardwood floor rails...spray them with the matt black to get a better overall finish (visually)  https://www.bunnings.com.au/white-kn...paint_p1565986 https://www.bunnings.com.au/fiddly-b...black_p1580054 @ $4 a can same as your $12to$15 a can and perfect for underneath  
If your looking to do more reno work:  *Floor & walls*
While you* r* there, ensure your hardwood fencing rails on the floor are solid.  Nothing worse than having a 700kg horse fall through the floor particularly if you r on the road.
I've generally used the thick rubber conveyor belt sheets on the floor, sides and tailgate.  Stick it down with this stuff (be generous with how much you use) and seal the edges well with the same stuff and good gal screws https://www.bunnings.com.au/aluminiu...g-gun_p1660237 https://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-...alant_p1230152  *Roof inside float*
If you plan to repaint the underside of the fiberglass, don't bother with the spray cans as if its in poor condition it will soak up a crap load of paint.  I brush on a good oil based enamel (2 coats).  Takes a lot more work but has great results and lasts for years.  An airless sprayer might do a good job (never used one)  *Roof (water tight)*
Make sure your roof doesn't leak particularly around the joins as it will find its way down the inside walls and cause you issues with both the wall and floor frame.  *Side padding*
Sometimes the ply used is stuffed.  Use the old one as a basic template to cut out another (12mm or 15mm)
Foam from Clark Rubber
Vinyl covering from Spotlight and use a power stapler to fix it to the back  
In the end if its no hot dip gal frame, then your frame will always be punished particular if the float is stored in the weather, constant moisture from the ground, leaking roof and you dont bother to hose out the horse urine/manure

----------


## ajm

> Hey AJM, I've done a few and assist with a few float reno's.  Forget the rust converters. Need to mechanically wire brush where you can, cut out if its bad (your SHS)  For a cheap job: similar to Marc's approach and Droog's advice. Zinc/gal paint brush or spray. 
> I've generally applied 2 coats of spray on gal and 2 to 3 coats of matt or gloss black.  Dont worry about the spray getting on the hardwood floor rails...spray them with the matt black to get a better overall finish (visually)  https://www.bunnings.com.au/white-kn...paint_p1565986 https://www.bunnings.com.au/fiddly-b...black_p1580054 @ $4 a can same as your $12to$15 a can and perfect for underneath  
> If your looking to do more reno work:  *Floor & walls*
> While you* r* there, ensure your hardwood fencing rails on the floor are solid.  Nothing worse than having a 700kg horse fall through the floor particularly if you r on the road.
> I've generally used the thick rubber conveyor belt sheets on the floor, sides and tailgate.  Stick it down with this stuff (be generous with how much you use) and seal the edges well with the same stuff and good gal screws https://www.bunnings.com.au/aluminiu...g-gun_p1660237 https://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-...alant_p1230152  *Roof inside float*
> If you plan to repaint the underside of the fiberglass, don't bother with the spray cans as if its in poor condition it will soak up a crap load of paint.  I brush on a good oil based enamel (2 coats).  Takes a lot more work but has great results and lasts for years.  An airless sprayer might do a good job (never used one)  *Roof (water tight)*
> Make sure your roof doesn't leak particularly around the joins as it will find its way down the inside walls and cause you issues with both the wall and floor frame.  *Side padding*
> Sometimes the ply used is stuffed.  Use the old one as a basic template to cut out another (12mm or 15mm)
> Foam from Clark Rubber
> ...

  Hi Bart, thanks for taking the time to give me such a detailed response. I have removed the floor and will take out the walls inside today. I have wire brushed most of the chassis now except for the side rails. These I will do once the walls are out. Apart from the back floor rail,  there is only light surface rust. I think I can get away with welding a strip of angle across the rear rail. The damage is in the centre on top of that rail so it's not going to affect the structural integrity at all. Plus the new angle won't interfere with the tailgate.  
Interestingly, the side walls appear to be riveted on. Is that usual? 
Ttalk

----------


## Bart1080

> Interestingly, the side walls appear to be riveted on. Is that usual?

  
Inside or outside walls?  If outside, yep is normal.  If inside.....mmmm whats "normal"  :Smilie:  many different construction/fixing methods and materials used.
FYI - big fan on float floors constructed using heavy angle.  With SHS & RHS, unless the base floor frame has been hot dipped with holes drilled so the the gal can coat inside and out they tend to rust from the inside with the ingress of urine and water.  With angle there is no where for the water/urine to build up

----------


## ajm

I prefer angle for that reason also. And I meant inside ply walls are riveted on. 
 Ttalk

----------


## Bros

> The chassis is angle not rhs.

   That's makes it easier to repair as you can see all sides.

----------


## ajm

just an update: have coated everything and anything (silly pig should not have come for a visit when i was lying underneath the float!) with cold gal. question, with two coats of col gal, is top coat on the hidden bits (inside walls, chassis, ramp) necessary?  
I ordered the wrong thickness of wood for the floor so have reordered this morning. Saw mill has kindly taken the unused timber back as a credit towards the new order. I am not a large customer of this business, this is actually the first time i have used them, but have no hesitation in recommending them to anyone. If anyone needs wood, pm me and i'll let you know who/where they are. 
Picking up the form ply for the sides, ramp, and floor (on top of the hardwood) tonight.  
another question for those in the know: where does one find window trimming materials? by this, i mean, the inserts that the window slides and rubber seals, etc? I was thinking of replacing the entire windows but can't find the same kind in my searches. these are rectangular rhombus shaped. All the RV places these days seem to have square or rectangle windows.

----------


## droog

> window slides and rubber seals

  Have a look at Clark Rubber they have a selection of some common rubber and bailey channel, if not put up a picture of the cross section with dimensions.

----------

