# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Feedback on Camo Hidden Fastening System

## DEMAK Timber

Hi All, 
We have just started stocking the Camo System CAMO Marksman Pro Hidden Deck Fastening Tool - Demak Timber & Hardware
and was wondering if anyone had any experience using it? 
Had a look through some older threads and didn't see any posts from anyone who's actually used it. 
In particular, has anyone used the wide board tool on 6" merbau or spotty? I am concerned about cupping and will be recommending customers glue the board as well... 
Cheers,
Daniel

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## METRIX

We have tried the system with hardwood boards 90mm, and were not impressed, was too finicky to use, took too long, and inconsistent results from splitting of the board edges. 
Was concerned with cupping as it is only holding on the smallest part of timber on the sides, problem with recommending glue, is if you use joist protectors then gluing is not an option. 
We returned the system to the supplier, and top screwed the boards, I know others on here have used it successfully.

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## Marc

I built a deck using the Camo system for the first time, and like it a lot. 
Some observations:
This is the only hidden fastener I know that allows for single boards replacements.
The handle on the tool needs improving, a D handle would be the way to go.
I have used it on 90mm and when it is true that it is a bit tight for one stetting and a bit lose with the next up, it can still be used successfully. Just a matter of getting used to it. However, considering that the most common width is 90mm, you would think that the variable tool would have a setting suitable for 90mm.
Slow or fast is a very subjective concept. There will never be a "fast" hidden fastener system. Yet top screwing is just as slow unless you use a mechanical screwing system or worst a nail gun. Both will produce poor results.
A fast way to use this system is with multiple operators using multiple tools. 
Avoiding splitting particularly at the end of the board, requires some getting used to it and taking it very gently and slowly and zero pressure, without (in my opinion) pre drilling. Pre drilling takes away the wood in front of the cutting edge of the screw and so the sides engage and pull the screw straight in, splitting the wood if the drilled hole is tight. Of course if you drill a bigger hole, there will be no splitting yet there will be no holding either since the head is very small. This may vary with different sorts of timber and is a matter of experimenting with some offcuts before engaging the job.
Cupping in my opinion is directly related to timber choice, width and thickness ratio, moisture content, sun exposure and other considerations. Fasteners in my view can not and do not prevent cupping. and probably neither can glue. I have seen 140x19 hardwood boards cup, screwed down with 14gx 74mm bugle screws. The same board in 140x32 would not cup even if laying lose on top of the joist with no fasteners at all. 
The recommended length of screw is wrong. I used the longer screw for 21mm thickness. The recommended shorter screw is way too short in my opinion particularly for pine joist. The screws are very strong and the driver goes forever. I used one single solitary driver for 75 m2 of 90mm decking. What is that ? 3000 screws? Probably more. I broke I think one. Stripped the head of may be 2.  
I think that Camo is a good product and definitely  better than using a biscuit jointer on both sides of the board. Nightmare. Cutting a groove with a spindle moulder or a router is just a big of a nightmare and makes for a place to hide rainwater for a long time after the rain stopped. Buying pre grooved timber from biscuit fastener merchants is a joke, you may as well buy at the chemist.   If you need to replace a board with the biscuit system...good luck.

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## Duff5000

I was looking at getting the camo system myself.  
After looking how much the SS screws were i ended up going with the kreg deck jig from amazon. 700 SS screw, 1400 protectacoat screws (where the deck isnt exposed to weather) and the deck jig cost me around $200 delivered. Bargain compared to AU prices. 
I am almost finished doing the decking (90mm merbau), will post some pics when it is done.  
Couple of thoughts on the Deck Jig: I ended up using the Jig to drill the holes for the entire length of the board then came back and screwed them in without using the jig. I found this far quicker. 
Predrilling was more time consuming than the camo system i guess but doing it this way drill holes the the entire board didn't take long at all.  I haven't split the side of a single board yet and i am almost finished. I did spit 2 ends when using the 45 degree angle on a board join. It wasnt a problem though, on those two i just put another hole using the middle drill guide and the timber didnt split.  Deck Jig

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