# Forum Home Renovation Decking  DECK - SCREWS v NAILS

## chris2710

Hi All
I've recently discovered this site and can't believe how informative and helpful everyone is.  It's a fantastic resource! 
This is my first post so please forgive me if I'm going over old ground.
I've just finished the first (and smallest) part of a two part deck using Merbau.  To fix to the joists, I used marine grade screws and only had a couple break off (which I'm still not sure how to fix).  I don't mind doing the same again on the larger deck but in hindsight, feel nails may have been a bit less obvious.  So, my questions are - 
1/ which, do most people think is better - screws or nails?
2/ If screws are the better option, is there any merit in using putty over the countersunk heads to ensure a clean, consistent finish?
Cheers
Chris

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## jago

look at klevaklips hidden fastenings.

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## chris2710

Thanks Jago
These look good.  Have you used them before?  They look quite easy to use.  My only concern is that the merbau I have is from Bunnings - some of the lengths are a little bowed - not dramatically but not sure how they'd go with this system - any thoughts?
Cheers
Chris

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## dukekamaya

Kleva Klips are good but exspensive, works out about $18 sq. metre 
I know all areas of Oz are different but we sell a vast majority of screws (both gal and S/S) over nails for deck fixing.

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## ScroozAdmin

I see your in Bris, been setting up our stand today at the HIA Building and Reno show ready for the weekend, noticed quite a few decking stands and so might be worth a nosey, I recall seeing a couple of hidden fixing systems last time but can't remember who had them, its at south bank.  :2thumbsup:

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## jimj

This discussion comes up quite often and you will need to sift through the various thoughts and opinions of the many who contribute. Each method of fixing have both good and bad points. You need to weigh up each and go for the one that suits. 
for my 2 cents worth if you are using nails I would only use bullet head type nails. When they lift up( and they will over time ) they are easier to knock down flush or even punch below the deck surface sometime later when some maintence or restoration ma be needed.
I would avoid dome headed twist nails at all costs as they too will work their way up and are a major hassle to knock down below the deck as this can cause unwanted splitting if sanding is needed in the future. Approximately 80% of the decks I restore are fitted with these either galvanised or stainless. In over 50% of the decks the coating is either Intergrain DWD peeling od Sikkens Cetol Deck and HLS. They need to be sanded to remove the coating. I also see a lot of decks tgat Have had these nails put in with a nail gun. This often results in the nails not pulling the decking board down tightly with the joists. When you walk on the deck it squeeks and you can feel the looseness. This method can  also cause splitting at the either side of the nail running with the grain. 
I have seen several decks with hidden clips. The deck looks great. I guess they are a $ issue with both cost and time. If neither is a concern they may be worth considering. There are several on the market.
The method I like is also slower and a little more costly. Counter sunk stainless steel screws with the same timber used to make wooden plugs from. Sink the scres sligtly deeper,insert the plug matching the direction of both grains the same way. Cut off the plugs and sand flush.  
If you elect to just countersink I wouldn't putty the holes as I havn't seen many putties that match the timber that nice. They all stain differently depending on what putty is used and what coating. Many of the fillers will come out over time if exposed to a lot of moisture and sun. 
If you are tying to countersink there are several tools on the market that can assist. I like and use the Festool  countersink tools. You can replace and set the length of the drill  to eaxtly the depth you want. You can also set the counter sink depth to exactly what yo want to achieve. They make two sizes one for a 3.5mm drill bit the other for a 4.5mm drill bit. the larger size for a batten type screw. I would think you would probably use the smaller size. They are about 65.00 and 85.00 each.  Some people say they cost too much. Well yes and know. I know they work without a lot of frustration.Once you get them adjusted they just work easily .  
I know you will have many opinions offered . 
Good luck
Jim J    restore-a-deck

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## binda

what Jim-J said.
On my deck I used the gal twist nails. My deck was pine being nailed to hard wood joists and all nails were predrilled. Then finished with a Spa&Deck coat in the Merbau tint.  
I used hardwood joists because I had been hording them for a few years knowing one day I would do a deck. I had recovered them from the roof trusses of an old KFC we had in town. The roof was being replaced and they sold off the old pitched roof for a song. 
If I had pine joists then screws I think are the only sure way to fix pine on pine. I know you are using hardwood but I thought I'd throw that in there for the readers.

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## chris2710

Thanks everyone - especially Jimj
I think I'll buy myself a decent countersink bit and stay with the screws
Cheers

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## chris2710

Sorry All - one more question.  how far in do you countersink or how far below the board should the screw sit
Cheers

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## jimj

The depth can be a personal thing. I like to aim for between 2-4 mm from the top of the screw to the top of the deck board. You can do more or less depending on your personal likes of looks. Deeper means a bigger hole but will allow for more future sanding if needed . Shallower smaller hole but will have the screw top closer to the surface when sanding may be needed in the future. I am sure many others will offer different opinnions,suggestions do's and dont's. Just sift them all and decide what best suits you. 
Good luck, 
JimJ

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## StarbornInd

> Hi All
> I've recently discovered this site and can't believe how informative and helpful everyone is.  It's a fantastic resource! 
> This is my first post so please forgive me if I'm going over old ground.
> I've just finished the first (and smallest) part of a two part deck using Merbau.  To fix to the joists, I used marine grade screws and only had a couple break off (which I'm still not sure how to fix).  I don't mind doing the same again on the larger deck but in hindsight, feel nails may have been a bit less obvious.  So, my questions are - 
> 1/ which, do most people think is better - screws or nails?
> 2/ If screws are the better option, is there any merit in using putty over the countersunk heads to ensure a clean, consistent finish?
> Cheers
> Chris

  Chris,
In full disclosure, I work for a company called Starborn Industries who manufacturers deck screws / plugs.
When it comes to putting down a deck, screws are always going to be the best option.  They will always provide more holding power than nails.  With that said, there are a lot of different screws out there.  I would recommend an 8 x 2-1/2” screw for 4/4 Merbau or 5/4 Merbau. In your post, you asked if you should putty over the screw heads in order to hide them.  The company I work for, Starborn Industries, sells “The Pro Plug System for Wood” which is a plug kit.  This may be a better option than putty for a few reason, the main one being that as the Merbau ages, a plug will age with the board, keeping the color consistent where as this will not be the case for putty.   The Pro Plug System is a complete plugging system that takes about half the time of traditional methods.  The system consists of: Pro Plug Fasteners which are 2-1/2” stainless steel deck screws Pro Plug Plugs which are premade face-grain plugs (in this case Merbau) The Pro Plug Glue Nozzle (which dispenses glue on the side walls of the plug hole as opposed to the bottom for maximum holding power) Pro Plug Tool which pre-drills, countersinks, and counterbores all in one step. This system is distributed in Australia by Powers Fasteners. For more information, please feel free to contact me. Thank You, Ryan Unick Deck Products Specialist Starborn Industries _runick@starbornindustries.com_ _P: 732-381-9800_ _Starbornindustries.com_ _Facebook.com/starbornindustries_

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## ringtail

Just personal preference here, but I use mainly dome head twist shanks on nearly every deck I do. 1 because they are specced by the designer,2 because they are far more cost effective 3 they are more forgiving than screws, they dont snap off mid drive, 4 joining boards is easy and neat with no need for trimmer joists at joins , and 5, they can be punched very easily with the correct sized punch that covers the *entire head* of the nail. I dont see what the big deal is with screws, sure they look great when done properly, but get those screw lines out, even a tiny bit and they look butt ugly. Just my 2 cents.

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## nww1969

I like the nails myself.
But I think it depends on the location of the deck. 
Viewed a property recently which the deck faces the west and gets the hot 
afternoon sun and the ends had twisted pulling the twist nails out of the bearers.
The deck was not that old.
I doubt this would have happened if they used screws.  
The deck I built 2 years ago with nails only gets a few hours sun in the morning
and still looks like new.

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## ScroozAdmin

we have some info in our blog here along with some pics of my nailed decks if you fancy a read

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