# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  Tips for skew nailing?

## paddyjoy

I have been trying to skew nail some 90x45 today and I'm having a few issues, would appreciate any tips! 
The first problem I'm having is that the nail gun leaves the nail about 10mm proud, I have tried bumping up the pressure to 120, putting more pressure on the gun, firing from different angles but nothing helps. Maybe it's because my nail gun is a cheap and nasty (spear and jackson project air)? 
What's a good way to keep the stud in place so that the gun doesn't knock it out of position? 
Thanks in advance!

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## METRIX

> I have been trying to skew nail some 90x45 today and I'm having a few issues, would appreciate any tips! 
> The first problem I'm having is that the nail gun leaves the nail about 10mm proud, I have tried bumping up the pressure to 120, putting more pressure on the gun, firing from different angles but nothing helps. Maybe it's because my nail gun is a cheap and nasty (spear and jackson project air)? 
> What's a good way to keep the stud in place so that the gun doesn't knock it out of position? 
> Thanks in advance!

  There should be an adjustment on the nose of the gun to allow it to shoot the nail deeper, mayby with the cheapy one it might not have it, dont increse the pressure too much or you might damage the gun seals.
Easiest way to keep the stud from being knocked out, is fire through the short side into the plate first, this will lock the stud in position then fire through the sides. 
If your a novice to putting studs in, cut  a timber at 405mm long, put this on the plate next to the previous stud and push the next stud up to this then fire through the side twice, take the timber out and shoot the other side off, the 405mm will give you 450 centre spacing if your using 45mm thick timber.

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## paddyjoy

> There should be an adjustment on the nose of the gun to allow it to shoot the nail deeper, mayby with the cheapy one it might not have it, dont increse the pressure too much or you might damage the gun seals.
> Easiest way to keep the stud from being knocked out, is fire through the short side into the plate first, this will lock the stud in position then fire through the sides. 
> If your a novice to putting studs in, cut  a timber at 405mm long, put this on the plate next to the previous stud and push the next stud up to this then fire through the side twice, take the timber out and shoot the other side off, the 405mm will give you 450 centre spacing if your using 45mm thick timber.

  Thanks Metrix, I know a bad workman blames his tools however in this case I think the gun just doesn't have the guts. I'm going to rent a paslode from bunnings tomorrow for the day to compare. This is the best I can get out of the gun I have, it has no fancy depth adjustment ha ha    
The 405mm piece sounds like it would help, how many nails would you typically put in, two on each side?

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## phild01

Could finish it off with a hammer!

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## paddyjoy

> Could finish it off with a hammer!

  My only objection to this is I find that if completely loosens up the joint, possibly due to my poor aim with the hammer  :Tongue:

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## phild01

> My only objection to this is I find that if completely loosens up the joint, possibly due to my poor aim with the hammer

  Ok, then make a big punch up.  Maybe a sleeper nail grinding the point off flat.  It will work wonders.  I cut up a 150mm length of an old wheel lever and have used it for various odd things like this.

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## METRIX

> Thanks Metrix, I know a bad workman blames his tools however in this case I think the gun just doesn't have the guts. I'm going to rent a paslode from bunnings tomorrow for the day to compare. This is the best I can get out of the gun I have, it has no fancy depth adjustment ha ha    
> The 405mm piece sounds like it would help, how many nails would you typically put in, two on each side?

  In this case it might be due to poor machine, is it the one below you have, if so there looks to be an allen key screw near the nose, this could be a depth adjustment similar to the older series Paslode, you loosen it and slide the nose piece closer to the machine, I thnk you will find this will fix your problem without going to the doctor  :Biggrin:  couldnt find any manuals online from S&J to confirm this. 
But at the end of the day a $118 gun wont perform as well long term as a gun made specifically for trade use, project air only offer a 12 month "home use" warranty  :Confused: , what is home use would it be if you built a home with is, as it was only used on the home  :Biggrin:  
I have a big mother of an Air gun "Fasco", it will embed a 90mm into seasoned hardwood all day and wont even work up a sweat, unfortunately the convenience of a cordless gun outweight the inconvenience of a hose hanging everywhere, and the gas guns are really only suitable for softwoods, they strugle when asked to go through hardwood.  Spear & Jackson Project Air 34° Framing Gun I/N 6270453 | Bunnings Warehouse 
The 405 spacer will help you achieve an evenly spaced wall if your not used to building stud walls with nail gun, it acts as a brace and a spacer, put two nails either side but spread them further apart, your photo shows them both more to one side, keep them about 20 - 25mm in from each side, skew and angle them into the plates, two nails per side is enough to lock the stud in. 
I find sometimes when your in a difficult situation it helps to lock the 45mm side in from the front and back with one nail first, then fix the sides off.
 A problem you might have is when skewing them in if you get the angle wrong you might actually nail into the block of timber your using as a spacer  :Eek: , don't be too concerned just pull the spacer out and continue nailing. 
Also don't get too hung up if your spacing is not all perfesctly 405mm between the studs, this is normal, you just adjust the noggin size to suit what you have, remember to measure for your noggins from the bottom and top plate DONT measure from where the noggin will go as this will be different due to bows etc in the timber. 
Fit all the centre noggins (we always do two rows of nogs) leaving the noggins for the first and last stud as the final ones to fit this is done so you don't bow the frame, remember to measure *every* noggin spacing, don't assume they are all  the same because they wont be unless they were built by a machine. 
Getting a Paslode is the way to go, they are an easy gun to use, make sure to get the nails with the gas, as they dont supply Gas with the rental, dont get too hung up if you have a few nails sticking out, you will find sometimes this will happen, depends on the angle etc, but it should only happen for mayby 1 in every 30 nails. 
I noticed in your other post you were after 90mm nails, do you need 90mm for a particular reason ?, 75mm is all anyone uses and they have plenty of length.
Also noticed you are using 90x45 - Good man, so many times I see home owners using 90x35 or worse 70x35, these are the worst timber to use for framing, as the gun tends to blow out the backside because there is not enough timber to give a good connection. 
IMO they should just stop making the 35mm thickness timbers the price difference is minimal and you get a much stronger result with the 45mm, 35mm is only suitable for things like a dog house IMO. 
Look back to the past, frames were made from 4x2 (100x50), when they introduced the metric sizes they went to 90x45 and 70x45 which is fine, but 90x35 and 70x35 is just rubbish. 
What are you building ?

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## phild01

Disagree with 35mm timber being rubbish, but then I tend to hand-pick straight, knotless timber. I do prefer 45mm generally and in the more essential areas.
1 and half inch framing timber was quite common in the '50's/'60's which was hardwood.  One and half inch oregon and hemlock was common as well.
Timber today is better sized and can be better quality then in earlier times, but mishandling by suppliers can really wreck it.  Avoid timber with big knots falling midway along the length.  That's the rubbish you still get at times and best used for noggins.

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## METRIX

The price is so small between the timbers nowadays, the saving is minimal, you might think your saving a lot of money but the figures below show how little you actually save.
For example building an 8m x 2.4m stud wall with 450 centers will use approx 46lm for studs, and 32lm for plates and noggins, total timber ~ 78lm. 
Using the green moster as a guide for timber prices using MGP10 T2, total cost for the wall shown below, bearing in mind the price difference between 70x35 and 90x45 is all of 80c per lm. *
Timber cost               Wall cost*
90x45 $3.34 lm          $261
90x35 $2.60 lm          $203
70x45 $3.18 lm          $248
70x35 $2.54 lm          $199 
The total price difference between building the same wall from 70x35 and 90x45, is $62 or $7.75 per lm, not even worth considering the 70x35 plus the added headache you get when using the thin timber and nail guns not to mentiuon the added strength you will get from the bigger timber. 
For a Home DIY project then the owner may get the enjoyment of sorting through the timbers to pick the best of the lot but when time is money the time it would take to hand pick approx 30 timbers required for this simple wall does not add up, I have better things to do than spend all my time at the yard picking timbers. 
As a builder you don't get the choice of hand picking timber, when ordering large quantities the supplier will just take whats on the pack, strap and send it.

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## phild01

Not debating costs or procurement.  Just saying 35mm isn't rubbish.  It works and abides by light timber framing code.  And it doesn't matter how you get supply, you can get 45 that is rubbish as well.  Twists, bends and knots are there in both these sizes.

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## paddyjoy

Ok so had a lot more success this morning with a fresh head. 
Metrix you are correct there is an allen key screw near the front, it was almost on full depth setting already but I did manage to get a few extra mm. Also there is a rubber thing around the nose of the gun, when I took this off I got another 4-5mm and it exposed some spikes that allowed the nose of the gun to grip the timber. These adjustments along with some practice at getting the angle correct means I can now get about 90% of the nails in so I think I will stick with using the el-cheapo for now and then do as phil suggested and punch any of the nails that are severely proud. I would love to get a paslode and I did have one in my original reno budget but then I blew all my budget on a bosch glide 12" scms.       
The damaged stud on the left is where I nailed the stud into the yellow tongue and then ripped it apart lifting the wall up  :Doh:  
The reason I was looking for 90mm nails was because I was going to nail the studs through the plates as an alternative to skew nailing, according to AS1684 90mm are required with 45mm plates when doing it this way however I have given up on this idea now as I'm getting better results with the skew nailing. 
Yes I'm planning to use 90x45 for everything, the quality is ok but no pieces are perfectly straight, the all have some form of deformity in one direction or the other, I did all the floor framing with LVL's, this was a luxury having everything completely square. 
I need to extend the wall another metre and double up the top plates, then when I'm finished I'll asses the quality and decided whether I need to pull it apart and start again  :Tongue:  
This is for an external load bearing wall as part of my first floor addition so I need to make sure I get it right. 
Thanks for the help!

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## METRIX

That will do it, the rubber thing is a surface proterctor, and is only used for surfaces you don't want to mark with the bounce from the nozzel teeth.
For framing just remove it, not sure where you would use it, as the gun is not really suited for "delicate" work, after all it's a framing gun. 
Anything less than framing you would be choosing a coil or finish nailer. 
Good Luck.

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## paddyjoy

Yes I can't imagine a situation where I would need this protector, it is now in long term storage ;-) 
I finished off the wall this afternoon, reasonably happy with the result, it's only 1m high, would you bother putting noggins in this given it is shorter than the 1350mm max spacing?

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## Tools

The "protector" is probably a flush finish attachment for use when laying chipboard flooring. 
Tools

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## phild01

I only ever thought it was part of the packaging to be discarded.  I never had need for it and threw it away.

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## METRIX

> Yes I can't imagine a situation where I would need this protector, it is now in long term storage ;-) 
> I finished off the wall this afternoon, reasonably happy with the result, it's only 1m high, would you bother putting noggins in this given it is shorter than the 1350mm max spacing?

  Would not bother with noggins.

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## paddyjoy

> Would not bother with noggins.

  Thanks Metrix

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## andy the pm

Don't forget to drain the condensate from your compressor tank regularly, also I always put about 8 drops of tool oil down the hose connector on the gun before each use and I don't generally get any problems until the tank pressure starts getting low. I have the same nail gun.

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## Gaza

Is this wall taking roof load ? When new roof is framed   
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## paddyjoy

> Don't forget to drain the condensate from your compressor tank regularly, also I always put about 8 drops of tool oil down the hose connector on the gun before each use and I don't generally get any problems until the tank pressure starts getting low. I have the same nail gun.

  I assume the oil just prevents it jamming up? I haven't been that liberal with the oil, I should probably get more diligent as it has jammed up once already. It was a pain to get all the bent nails out! 
Thanks for the top I haven't drained the compressor since I bought it!

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## paddyjoy

> Is this wall taking roof load ? When new roof is framed   
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  Yes it will be. So all the roof to the right of that LVL beam will going then this new wall will be placed on a double joist which is about 2m back behind where the wall is now. 
Basically I'm just trying to get as much done now before I take the roof off.

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## andy the pm

> I assume the oil just prevents it jamming up? I haven't been that liberal with the oil, I should probably get more diligent as it has jammed up once already. It was a pain to get all the bent nails out! 
> Thanks for the top I haven't drained the compressor since I bought it!

  It should help prevent jamming, but it should also get your nails going in a bit deeper. If you don't have tool oil use a light, thin oil.
One day I'll get round to fitting the inline filter I bought for the compressor, probably after the nail gun packs up...
Oh, and throw away the nails that came with the gun, they are about as hard as a pencil...

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## The Bleeder

Ok, I'll ask the question...which way are you using the nail gun. 
The magazine parallel to the plate or the stud. It does make a diffenence when angle nailing.

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## paddyjoy

> Ok, I'll ask the question...which way are you using the nail gun. 
> The magazine parallel to the plate or the stud. It does make a diffenence when angle nailing.

  I'm using the magazine parallel to the stud, this seemed to work the best.

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## Gaza

> Yes it will be. So all the roof to the right of that LVL beam will going then this new wall will be placed on a double joist which is about 2m back behind where the wall is now. 
> Basically I'm just trying to get as much done now before I take the roof off.

  Got ya     
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## ringtail

Not that I do that much framing anymore, but when I do I always use a spacer block top and bottom but I leave it in and nail it off and nail the stud to it as well. Apart from giving a perfect job it also gives one a double bottom plate ( sort of) which is bloody terrific for nailing the skirts on later. One doesn't have to find studs and it gives a superior result. it's also a lot easier for noobs to come to grips with. Should be mandatory I reckon. Then again, with the current crop of smash and bash spec home "chippy's", most use pre made garbage up here.

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## METRIX

> I assume the oil just prevents it jamming up? I haven't been that liberal with the oil, I should probably get more diligent as it has jammed up once already. It was a pain to get all the bent nails out! 
> Thanks for the top I haven't drained the compressor since I bought it!

  The oil is to lubricate the internal piston and stop it ceasing up, similar to a car engine, it has nothing to do with the nails jamming etc. 
To lubricate the gun, you put a few drops of oil in the point where you connect the air before using it each day, you never put any oil where you feed the nails or where they come out, this only attracts dirt and ends up full of crud. 
The compressor should have a water trap on it where you connect the hose (usually part of the regulator), this will stop almost all water getting to the tool. 
The water trap and compressor need draining regularly, if you don't have a water trap you should fit one as a compressor generates a lot of condensation which ends up being fed to your tools, which pneumatic tools don't like, they look like this.  AFC AIR Pressure Regulator OIL Water Separator Trap Filter Airbrush Compressor | eBay 
If your gun is jamming nails, this is just either poor quality nails or poor quality gun, if you are using the Paslode nails, then it's not the nails at fault [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Lounge\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01  \clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
I can't even remember when I had a jammed nail in either my current Paslode, Fasco, Hitachi or Trak-It framing guns, and combined they have probably shot close to 70,000 nails. 
When the Paslode plays up it misfires (no nails shot), but never jammed nails in the gun, the Paslode finisher is a different story, if you mistakenly hit something directly behind what your shooting at it can bend the nail in the nozzle, but never the framing gun.

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## phild01

My lousy coil gun jams but the cheapo framing gun, never.

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## METRIX

> My lousy coil gun jams but the cheapo framing gun, never.

  I found with my Hitachi coil, the plastic collated nails work like a dream, never jam. 
Once I used wire collated and the thing jammed like it was going out of fashion, probably could only get 60 shots before it jammed, and it was a real ^&(*$% to unjam, and became very frustrating very quickly. 
Needles to say I have never used wire collated again and have not had an issue, when it jammed there was bits of copper wire all mangled up in the mechanism, not sure if they work better on Duofast or others, but they did not like the Hitachi. 
Funnily enough I found that box of 9000 wire collated under the house last week, there was still about 8000 left in there, I remember throwing them under there after buying plastic collated to finish the job.
 I took them straight to the metal recyclers last weekend  :Biggrin: .

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## jimfish

I had trouble with my makita coil nailer jamming but since re-fitting a missing spring to the magazine I have been able to adjust it to suit the shorter hardened nails and it no longer jams.

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## paddyjoy

> If your gun is jamming nails, this is just either poor quality nails or poor quality gun, if you are using the Paslode nails, then it's not the nails at fault

  Ha ha yes I'm using paslode, like andy I didn't even bother with the ones that came with it. I have found that you need to use one strip of nails at a time with this gun, if you use two strips what happens is when the first strip gets down to about 4 nails the pressure from the second strip slightly changes the angle of the nails at the front causing it to jam. I have only had this issue with the 75mm nails, the 50mm I used for the yellow tongue were fine. Most of the time you can get the jam out easily but sometimes the nail bends around and gets completely stuck and you need to take the gun apart. 
I also have a "home use" compressor so the drain is on the tank itself, nothing on the regulator so I might pick up a new regulator from ebay, thanks for the tip. It's a 24l so you get about 6 shots before it runs out of pressure. The trick is to do the skew nails first then use the low pressure to secure the next stud from the back  :Roflmao:

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## phild01

> I also have a "home use" compressor so the drain is on the tank itself, nothing on the regulator so I might pick up a new regulator from ebay, thanks for the tip. It's a 24l so you get about 6 shots before it runs out of pressure. The trick is to do the skew nails first then use the low pressure to secure the next stud from the back

  Quite normal, periodically drain the tank if you're not forgetful like me, and use the regulator shown to help stop the moisture getting to the tool (it needs draining as well).
You may need to up the pressure as well.

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## METRIX

> Ha ha yes I'm using paslode, like andy I didn't even bother with the ones that came with it. I have found that you need to use one strip of nails at a time with this gun, if you use two strips what happens is when the first strip gets down to about 4 nails the pressure from the second strip slightly changes the angle of the nails at the front causing it to jam. I have only had this issue with the 75mm nails, the 50mm I used for the yellow tongue were fine. Most of the time you can get the jam out easily but sometimes the nail bends around and gets completely stuck and you need to take the gun apart. 
> I also have a "home use" compressor so the drain is on the tank itself, nothing on the regulator so I might pick up a new regulator from ebay, thanks for the tip. It's a 24l so you get about 6 shots before it runs out of pressure. The trick is to do the skew nails first then use the low pressure to secure the next stud from the back

  If your looking for a water trap / regulator, disregard the one I put earlier this is only for an airbrush  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  :Biggrin:  
Look for something like this, 1 4" 150ml Alloy Compressor TAP AIR Line Filter@regulator Gauge Wall Mounted 10B | eBay 
Or this one which also has an oil mister function, but this would be no good if your using it for spray painting as you don't want oil being injected down the line.  1 4"AIR Control Unit Filter Regulator AND Lubricator Water Trap FOR Compressor | eBay 
You will need to buy a few fittings to adapt it to your compressor.

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## paddyjoy

> If your looking for a water trap / regulator, disregard the one I put earlier this is only for an airbrush  
> Look for something like this, 1 4" 150ml Alloy Compressor TAP AIR Line Filter@regulator Gauge Wall Mounted 10B | eBay 
> Or this one which also has an oil mister function, but this would be no good if your using it for spray painting as you don't want oil being injected down the line.  1 4"AIR Control Unit Filter Regulator AND Lubricator Water Trap FOR Compressor | eBay 
> You will need to buy a few fittings to adapt it to your compressor.

  Thanks Metrix finally got around to ordering one of these!

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## METRIX

You will probably need to get a few fittings to connect it to the compressor, they should be available at Bunnings.

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