# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  How to wire IKEA light fitting

## duj

G'day All, 
Wife spent some time in IKEA and brought back some IKEA light fittings and ordered me to put them up. The IKEA instruction also shows two cables are needed but after I took off the old light fitting, I found this:   
I am thinking the 3rd black cable is a separated single cable and looked liked earth cable, but it was wired with the 2nd black cable (neutral?) couple with a red cable (live cable?). 
This light is controlled by two separated switches on the same panel and these two switches control two different lights. 
So how should I wire the new IKEA light fitting? 
Thanks
Jason

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## r3nov8or

Call an electircian or ask your wife to go back and buy batten fix lights.

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## Bros

When you start talking about black being earth I can only say one thing "Get an electrician".

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## watson

:Wat they said:  
Jason, this is not the "bums rush".......the advice is right on the money in this case.

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## duj

> When you start talking about black being earth I can only say one thing "Get an electrician".

  Yeah i know it's a long shot, earth should be green but the 3rd black is a separated cable, where the hell is it coming from?

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## Bruiser

Doesn't look like there is an earth. 
The loop is just a connector, and could thus be replaced with a connector if the Ikea light doesn't have one.  I doubt you'll be able to get all the wires into the Ikea lamp, but you haven't shown any details for it.  Respectfully, the nature of your question suggests you don't have the necessary basics to do this safely. 
The switching that you have described is weird, but if you're happy with it, a 'batten fixed lamp' is probably your best bet.  Getting a sparkie in is also a good bet.  Not trying to be alarmist or unhelpful, but especially as your wife has selected the lamp, you would do well to focus on the prize - a functioning light that she's happy with, without days of confusion and dissatisfaction.

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## Bros

When you do get an electrician as it is now a must make sure you have not disconnected any of the wires as it will be much quicker for them to change the fitting as there will be no guessing as to where the cables go.

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## watson

Just a dumb rr's question from me.
In a case like this, is the electrician obliged to upgrade the wiring...or can they cope with working with two colours (The last phrase is a Tongue in cheek comment)  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

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## LinesElectrical

It would be possible to not have an earth in this situation if the sparky was replacing the existing light and it was of a type that did not require an earth eg a plastic battern.

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## watson

:2thumbsup:

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## watson

I found a Tongue in cheek smiley....I must upload it.           
Sorry ...I digress.

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## LinesElectrical

Besides you've got no chance getting those wires to fit in an Ikea light unless you have an assortment of other parts on hand as most Ikea fittings are cheap and therefore cheap and nasty the wires simply won't fit in the terminals provided.

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## M.V. Electrical

> Besides you've got no chance getting those wires to fit in an Ikea light unless you have an assortment of other parts on hand as most Ikea fittings are cheap and therefore cheap and nasty the wires simply won't fit in the terminals provided.

   I seem to find this is the case with most light fitting these days, it's as if the manufacturer thinks you are going to have a nice clean length of 1mm flex coming out of a timber batten. As opposed to the reality of multiple 1.5mm twins and some crumbling gyprock. 
Glenn www.mountainvillageelctrical.com

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## LinesElectrical

1.5mm that would be nice. 
Haven't seen a drum of that stuff in a long time over in commercial. 
I get the impression the Manafactures are gearing towards a higher (newer) standard, where as a house would be wired with surface mounted outlets in the ceiling and homeowners could just plug in anything they like using a fitting with supplied flex. 
Like we do over here in commercial.

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## r3nov8or

> I found a Tongue in cheek smiley....I must upload it.           
> Sorry ...I digress.

  yes please. i needed one earlier

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## Bros

Seeing we are recommending an electrician I must commend the poster on his excellent photo, I wish others would do the same. 
Now seeing you did that I may be able to give you an explanation on what the cables do.
From what I can see the red and black on the left are switch wires, the other red and black pair are supply in and the other single black is the neutral to the other light which picks up its active from the second switch.
Now you know what each does it will make you better informed when you call the electrician that's why I said not to disturb the wiring.
As the other poster's said the most elegant looking lights are the worst to connect up as they make no allowance for wiring.

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## chrisp

Assuming that there is good access to the ceiling space above the light, get the electrician to install an outlet socket in the ceiling space (as suggested by LinesElectrical). 
This has two benefits: (a) for you, you can simply swap light fitting later as they will simply plug in (but you may have to wire on the plug); and (b) for the electrician, it makes a much better termination.   
In many lights I have seen without the socket, the electricians simply use a BP connector to join flex to solid - far from the best method of doing such a joint.  The screw in the BP connector cuts the strands of the flex and results in a questionable joint with loose strands of copper.

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## LinesElectrical

In addition to chrisp' suggestion be aware that it would require an earthing conductor to be installed to connect it to the earthing system.  
That earth would need to go to an earthing conductor somewhere either at the switchboard (best practice) or any other point like annother luminare that has been earthed (good) or a socket outlet or junction box in the ceiling (well just don't tell). I would suggest min 1.5mm green/yellow and if said sparky couldn't obtain it in this form it could be stripped from regular an+e cable. He would use a clipsal 413 with a protective base or simmilar. 
A short piece of flex with a plug like a old kettle cord would be required to connect your particular Ikea fitting.

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## BRADFORD

> or a socket outlet or junction box in the ceiling (well just don't tell). I would suggest min 1.5mm green/yellow and if said sparky couldn't obtain it in this form it could be stripped from regular an+e cable. He would use a clipsal 413 with a protective base or simmilar.

  
Do you use this earthing method often?

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## chalkyt

Interesting to read the overnight responses. I pondered for a while before answering, given our recent debates on tricky situations like this one. Have a look at recent posts and you will see what I mean. Everyone has covered the issues that were rattling around my brain. 
My guess was the same as Bros re the third black wire,but as we aren't there, we can't be 100% sure and that is one of the reasons why you get the "CALL AN ELECTRICIAN" advice. I would also guess that as the photo seems to be of an old type bakelite batten holder (which suggests that it is an "old" installation), there may not be an earth run with the lighting circuit. 
So you can see that "arrgh, 100 bucks to connect two wires" is backed up by... does the new fitting need to be earthed?,  is there something in the ceiling to support it?, what else is needed to make a proper connection?, etc, and a bit of crawling around in the ceiling. The aim of all of this is to help you end up with a safe, proper and legal job. Good luck!

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## LinesElectrical

Re BRADFORD: If its a flat roof and my other option is pulling off every sheet all the way to the switchboard then you have to get creative, unless the customers happy to pay a thousand bucks for a $50 ceiling fan or $10 Ikea fitting. 
The rules are pretty ambiguous regarding this in that an earthing conductor must be present and connected to the men earthing system somewhere.  
In my mind it falls into the additional protection category simmilar to where so long as a house pre 1997 has one rcd it is fine no matter how many circuits it protects adding more is at the descresion of the owners. 
Lucily I don't work in domestic except in extreme cases and then it's $300 just to come out so I don't usually deal with these problem.

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## Moondog55

As a "Non-Electrician" I can't believe that no-one has given what I think is the obvious answer.
Leave the old batten fixture alone connected "AS-IS" and just put a bayonet plug on the new fitting.
As it is then not hard-wired you do not need a Sparky to connect thing up.
Bayonet plugs are $3.96 at Bunnys, or were when I bought one last month as a temporary fix

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## LinesElectrical

> As a "Non-Electrician" I can't believe that no-one has given what I think is the obvious answer.
> Leave the old batten fixture alone connected "AS-IS" and just put a bayonet plug on the new fitting.
> As it is then not hard-wired you do not need a Sparky to connect thing up.
> Bayonet plugs are $3.96 at Bunnys, or were when I bought one last month as a temporary fix

  I think that was the first suggestion unfortunately the new fitting is most likely slim and would not cover the battern unless it was a pendant type fitting.

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## r3nov8or

MD, read post #2.  
i reckon the bakelite batten fix unit is already a bayonet fitting, given its age.

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## Moondog55

Yes, it is a bayonet ceiling fxiture, a  "Socket" you  use a "Bayonet plug"

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## chalkyt

Notice on the picture that the pins are moulded (about 1.5 mm dia). I have seen them supporting about 1.5Kg of glass ball light fitting in a cathedral ceiling with sometimes only one pin still intact... SCAREY!!!!!   :Yikes2:  
Do you want Damocles Sword hanging over your head? Those bayonet plugs are O.K. for very lightweight fittings but I wouldn't want 1.5mm of plastic pin supporting anything bulky over the top of my head. (Especially if it was plugged into an old bakelite batten holder which tends to go brittle with age and heat... at least the very old ones had metal pins and skirts which had some strength). Not saying don't consider them, just assess the mechanical strength vs the weight etc of the fitting.

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## Moondog55

> Notice on the picture that the pins are moulded (about 1.5 mm dia). I have seen them supporting about 1.5Kg of glass ball light fitting in a cathedral ceiling with sometimes only one pin still intact... SCAREY!!!!!   
> Do you want Damocles Sword hanging over your head? Those bayonet plugs are O.K. for very lightweight fittings but I wouldn't want 1.5mm of plastic pin supporting anything bulky over the top of my head. (Especially if it was plugged into an old bakelite batten holder which tends to go brittle with age and heat... at least the very old ones had metal pins and skirts which had some strength). Not saying don't consider them, just assess the mechanical strength vs the weight etc of the fitting.

  OK A valid point but it is for the electrical connection, are mechanical connections covered by the "sparky rule" as I would secure any light fitting with screws or bolts and safety chains. a batten holder was only designed to take the weight of a globe at most I guess. Pins appear moulded but are actually metal covered by the plastic

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## chalkyt

Interesting about the plastic covering on metal pins. Good to know, I've never had a real close look but it does make sense. I just remember the great lump of glass ball hanging from one with a pin snapped off. Generally "the Sparky Rule' (AS3000) doesn't specifically cover mechanical connections but frequently refers to stuff like "operate in a safe and reliable manner", "provide adequate strength of supports, suspensions and fixings", "no undue mechanical stress on any connection" etc, etc., which is probably just a complicated way of saying use common sense.

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## LinesElectrical

I would be more concerned about the wall mates two center meters away from a hole in horsehair plastering myself.  
I doubt it hold a bayonet fitting solid.

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## Moondog55

> I would be more concerned about the wall mates two center meters away from a hole in horsehair plastering myself.  
> I doubt it hold a bayonet fitting solid.

   although I have found that older horsehair plaster "in good condition" stronger than 10mm solid sheet.
Makes you wonder about the regulations; it would make some sense to mandate stronger mounting if heavy lighting fixtures were to be used, even a double layer of plaster sheet perhaps? or something like a steel wall bracket designed and mandated for ceiling use.
this is something I have never thought about as all I have ever wanted were batten holders. Cecile wants lighting fixtures which are pretty ( read heavy ) so i need to start thing about this now.
Maybe a new thread devoted to how strong ceiling supports need to be is in order??

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## M.V. Electrical

I'd be fitting a timber batten above the sheeting for support. 
Glenn LICENSED & LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN - YOUR LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN

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## LinesElectrical

> I'd be fitting a timber batten above the sheeting for support. 
> Glenn LICENSED & LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN - YOUR LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN

  Thats pretty much the proven tried and tested method.

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## Moondog55

> I'd be fitting a timber batten above the sheeting for support. 
> Glenn LICENSED & LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN - YOUR LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN

  OOps " I feel stoopid now"

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## M.V. Electrical

> OOps " I feel stoopid now"

  Nah, we all live and learn. 
Glenn LICENSED & LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN - YOUR LOCAL BLUE MOUNTAINS ELECTRICIAN

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## Moondog55

OK So a timber batten between the ceilings joists.
What size batten? I ask as we "should" be starting our new rooms soon, 140 * 45? or is a 70 * 35 good enough?? and the hole for the wire drilled though the centre?

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## Bruiser

I'd go for something the size of the existing rafters.  Then 'hang' it off the rafters by screwing it to a slightly longer piece.   
My test unit for this sort of thing is a 74kg chin up.  (I am aware of others who use a heavier duty specification!!)

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## r3nov8or

To achieve a 74kg test I need to leave one foot very firmly on the ladder  :Smilie:

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