# Forum Home Renovation Brickwork  Suggestions for restoring fireplace brickwork

## GTWAGN

Hi all, 
this is my first post here so please bear with me! I have a brick Victorian home (circa 1895) in Melbourne and have a fireplace that needs some work. Ultimatley it needs a new cast iron insert etc, but until such time as I have the cash to purchase the required bits and pieces I want to clean up the brickwork to make it more presentable in the room. 
The original insert has been removed at some point and some plonker in the annals of time decided it would be a good idea to paint the white marble mantle :Shock:  . The fireplace has been used since (by previous owners) and the brickwork has been damaged - more to the point the mortar has been damaged (refer attached photos). 
I'm after suggestions on the best way to fix up the mortar and brickwork for aesthetic purposes only, that is, I will not be lighting any fires. My wife would like to paint the inside of the fireplace white, so I was thinking that I should perhaps render the brickwork once I have cleaned it up?? 
I have read in this forum that a lime based mortar is the way to go with old brickwork - is this also true for inside fireplaces?? 
I'm also after suggestions for the render. Should the render also be a lime based mortar or should it be a cement based render?? 
Thanks in advance for any help. 
GTWAGN

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## johnc

You could render if you wish, clean the soot off first, then one coat of render to fill the mortar lines, then coat and trowel off. I would also clean the paint from the marble. Solvol and cuttlefish are harmless to the stone but will wear down the paint. Solvol first on the paint and the cuttlefish to finish. You could also rub it down with a silicone carbide stone but that will remove some of the surface. Ubeaut EEE and  trad wax will restore some of the shine. If you try paint stripper, don't leave it on to long and use the solvol to finish the wash down, brush and water first followed by the soap. The two fine abrasives, or a green mit will all help clean the corbel, doesn't look as though it is in bad order and well worth the effort. 
Have you thought of getting some new red solids (bricks) and simply replacing the fire box, should look pretty smick if done properly. 
John.

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## GTWAGN

johnc thanks for your comments. 
The mantle is in good nick and I am very happy that you think it is salvagable - I thought the porous nature of the marble would render any restoration useless! 
What do you mean by replacing the firebox?? Excuse my ignorance, but I am quite new to this handy man thing!! Do you mean to replace the bricks at the base of the fireplace? 
Does the render need to be a lime based mortar? 
Where can I buy a silicone carbide stone and Ubeat EEE, trad wax etc??  
Cuttlefish????  Do you mean the stuff I find on the beach?? 
Also what is the cordel you refer to? 
Sorry for all the questions, but I am coming from a very, very low knowledge base. 
Thanks again 
GTWAGN

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## johnc

Ubeaut the forum sponsors have EEE and traditional wax. The corbel is the shaped thingy that holds up the mantle. 
Cuttlefish is the stuff that comes off the beach and solvol of course from the supermarket. 
I don't know the answer to the lime mortar question, but a bag of pre-mix should have been OK I would have thought. 
A silicone carbide stone is the think you can sharpen chisels, palne blades etc with, but only use it if no oil has been used on the stone. 
Marble is porous, and can stain permantly but you should be able to remove paint from the surface, particularly if it is water based. I've never used paint stripper but if you go down that path I'd be fast and keep a careful eye on the surface incase it begins to roughen or pit, either is bad news. 
Forget the comment on the fire box, just lift out the loose bricks, vacuum up the dust and scraps and relay, you shouldn't get into to much trouble. 
John.

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## GTWAGN

Thanks very much for your suggestions johnc. 
Can anybody help with my lime mortar question?? Should I be using lime mortar in restoring some old Victorian period brickwork, or can I get away with a cement based mortar? 
Can you buy pre made lime putty rather than having to make it yourself? 
Cheers 
GTWAGN

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## ozwinner

> Thanks very much for your suggestions johnc. 
> Can anybody help with my lime mortar question?? Should I be using lime mortar in restoring some old Victorian period brickwork, or can I get away with a cement based mortar? 
> Can you buy pre made lime putty rather than having to make it yourself? 
> Cheers 
> GTWAGN

  Hi
If you are restoring the internals of a fire place I can see no real problem with using cement based mortar.
Mix it in a bucket at 3 sand to 1 cement and some lime ( the amount of lime is determined by the amount of clay in the sand) with as much water to make a thick paste. 
Rake out the old mortar before you apply the new pointing, make sure you wet the surface of the joints before you point the brickwork otherwise the mortar wont stick properly. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## GTWAGN

Thanks ozwinner, 
the wife has penned this project in for the long weekend!!! 
I was not looking forward to making the lime putty, it sounds like a rather explosive exercise! 
Should I use washed sand or the yellow brickies sand? 
Ben

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## ozwinner

Use brickies sand, the washed is only good for rendering.
You will only need a bucket or 2 to point the fire place. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## GTWAGN

Thanks again. :2thumbsup:   
Ben

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## GTWAGN

just had another thought. 
Can the yellow brickies sand be used for a render as well for this job?  The wife wants to paint the inside of the fireplace white once it is cleaned up, so I was planning to render the brickwork prior to painting to give a cleaner finish for the paint. 
GTWAGN

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## ozwinner

Brickies sand can be used for rendering, but it drags as you float it. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## makka619

Hey GTWAGN, good luck with the job! Make sure you post pics when you are done! I would love to see how it turns out. 
I too have a fireplace with brickwork all sooted like that. Though, the grouting isn't a problem.   
My Questions,  
What type of paint do you use to paint over bricks?  
Do they have to be rendered with something beforehand? Or can the paint just be slopped straight on?

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## ozwinner

> I too have a fireplace with brickwork all sooted like that. Though, the grouting isn't a problem.   
> My Questions,  
> What type of paint do you use to paint over bricks?  
> Do they have to be rendered with something beforehand? Or can the paint just be slopped straight on?

  
The loose soot can be removed by washing it off with soapy water, it may take a few goes at it though.
There might be bleed through of the paintwork from the soot so a sealer might be needed. 
You can paint straight onto brickwork, most paints seem to work, in the olden days they used oil based paint, but water based is used now. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## makka619

Wow any paint! Thanks oz.  
I don't know what you mean by sealent, are you talking between the bricks and to be filled in with mortar/cement mix?  
Another question, should I cover the bricks with a layer of mortar so that the surface becomes flat and smooth and therefore the brickwork unrecognisable? Essentially, I would then be painting on to the dried mortar and not the bricks.  
If I wanted to try this, do I just use a cement based mortar? 
*Just thought it might look prettier then painting straight on the bricks.

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## ozwinner

> Wow any paint! Thanks oz.  
> I don't know what you mean by sealent, are you talking between the bricks and to be filled in with mortar/cement mix?

  A paint sealer, so the soot doesnt bleed through the paint.   

> Another question, should I cover the bricks with a layer of mortar so that the surface becomes flat and smooth and therefore the brickwork unrecognisable? Essentially, I would then be painting on to the dried mortar and not the bricks.

  Your choice as how you want it to look in the finish   

> If I wanted to try this, do I just use a cement based mortar? 
> *Just thought it might look prettier then painting straight on the bricks.

  Just use mortar if this is what you are going to do.    
Al :Smilie:

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## GTWAGN

Hi guys, 
I started the project today after visiting the wombats etc at healsville sanctuary with the wife and kids - Happy Australia Day!! 
I decided to rip out all of the bricks in the base of the fireplace as they were all busted up and there was 100 years of dust and ash to clean out. 
Once I got the bricks out I hit the old mortar which came out very, very easily.  Interestingly under the broken up mortar base I stuck an archeologists dream - 100 year old building rubble,  There was heaps of floorboard end bits, timber shavings (from a plane?), bits of plaster and a bunch of very rusty old nails. 
I'm going to get some new bricks and re-lay them and render over them and the rear and side bricks to give a nice clean finish for painting.  This of course all sounds good in practise, but as I'm new to this game, time will tell.  
The wife wants to paint the back and side white and the base black.  I have cleaned the old cast iron fire grate that was in the fireplace with a wire brush and painted with penetrol and black fire stove paint.  It has come up a treat!! :Biggrin:   
makka619, you will be able to learn from my mistakes!!  Stay tuned for the photos.  I'm going to try to finish it this weekend if the soicial calendar allows. 
Stupid question I know, but where do you go to buy just 12 bricks??? 
GTWAGN

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## makka619

Awaiting patiently for the pics GTWAGN. :Biggrin:  I don't know the name of where you get bricks, soz, hope you found some okay.   
Thanks Oz for your help. 
What do you guys think about bagging the inside of the fireplace? It is suppose to be pretty cheap..or would that look dicky?

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## GTWAGN

makka619 I am still working on the brickwork!!  This project is going to take some time.  I have cleaned as much of the soot off the bricks as possible  using a wire brush and some sugar soap.  The bricks are still quite black, however there is no loose material so hopefully the render I put on will stick.   
In cleaning the bricks I found an enormous amout of soot between the bricks and the from of the mantle - It took 2 buckets to remove it.  I should have gone to Godfrey's to pick up a cheap, reconditioned vacum cleaner, I think it would have made the job much easier! :Doh:   
Once you've cleaned up your mortar and scrubbed back the brickwork, I'd still try and render the fireplace if you want a shmick finish!!

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## ozwinner

> What do you guys think about bagging the inside of the fireplace? It is suppose to be pretty cheap..or would that look dicky?

  
The bagging wouldnt last 5 minutes in a fire place, as a decorator piece it would look ok.. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## makka619

How's it coming along GTWAGN?      

> The bagging wouldnt last 5 minutes in a fire place, as a decorator piece it would look ok.. 
> Al

  Thanks for the tip. I haven't decided if it will ever be used again. I guess painting the bricks wouldn't be too good (fumes) if it's ever used for a fire?

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## GTWAGN

I have finished rebuilding the fireplace base; got new bricks and rendered over them.  It has come up really well, although the finish is not quite as smooth as I would have liked.  I figure once it is painted and under the iron grate nobody will be able to tell.  Once I've painted I will post some pictures.   
I still need to redo the mortar on the lower chimney bricks, but I'm still concerned that given the age of the house (>100yrs) I need to be using a lime mortar rather than a cement based mortar.   
Does anyone know if you can buy pre made lime putty, so I don't have to go through the process of making (slaking?) it myself?? 
I haven't started the paint stripping of the marble surround as yet, although I have got the stuff ready to start if I ever fine the time!  I even found some cuttlefish as per ozwinner's recommendation!!

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## makka619

> I have finished rebuilding the fireplace base; got new bricks and rendered over them.  It has come up really well, although the finish is not quite as smooth as I would have liked.  I figure once it is painted and under the iron grate nobody will be able to tell.  Once I've painted I will post some pictures.   
> I still need to redo the mortar on the lower chimney bricks, but I'm still concerned that given the age of the house (>100yrs) I need to be using a lime mortar rather than a cement based mortar.   
> Does anyone know if you can buy pre made lime putty, so I don't have to go through the process of making (slaking?) it myself?? 
> I haven't started the paint stripping of the marble surround as yet, although I have got the stuff ready to start if I ever fine the time!  I even found some cuttlefish as per ozwinner's recommendation!!

  missed ozwinner's recommendation but lol at the cutflefish.  
Sounds like you are coming along. It always takes longer then you imagined; well for me lately anyway :Redface:  
Can't wait to see the before and after pics.

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## Joister

not sure if this is too late - was chatting to a work friend who was a brickie and had to re-point (mortar) some bricks at a heritage site we are both working at - basically he used a cement mortar but made it 'lime rich' - those were his words 
from what i gathered he went for about a 1 cement (builders) to 4 yellow sand (brickies) and what i'd reckon would have been getting close to 2 lime - once he re-pointed the bricks he then render with another lime rich mix but this time using washed sand and around the 1 cement to 5 sand to 2 lime 
anyways hope this helps 
you've probably finished the job by now 
Joister

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## nickykat

I know this as a really old thread, but it's exactly what I wanted to know, so if anyone is around who answered the original thread, thank you!

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## Trains

Just to add my experience to this thread.
About this time last year I had a fireplace in far worse condition, had to replace 7ish   levels of bricks as the original ones were cracked/ broken and eroded away, very little mortar was between them, large cracks due to them dropping etc. 
Braced good bricks, removed old bricks, found some old smaller bricks the original size, and began relaying them and ended up re mortaring almost all the remaining joints due to them being eroded/ cracked, or just not there. 
As its an old 1840s place, I used 3:1 lime putty and brickies sand mix in all the repair work. 
Found that after a winter of fire on an open 4 sided cast iron grate/ fire box on a base of bricks, the very closest area to the fire had some mortar erosion, but nothing that a few hrs work  and a few cups of mortar would not fix. 
If we had a decorative cast iron fire surround/ fire grate away from the back of the fireplace area, there would not have been any further repairs required. 
cheers 
Trains

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## autogenous

If you want to bag use Fondu cement - read the instructions on the bag..

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