# Forum Home Renovation Decking  Fixing Hardwood Decking to Steel Joists

## ssuterus

Guys,
I am overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge and valuable information contained  within this great site, definitely a credit to the members.
I have some questions relating to the best method of retaining Merbau decking to steel joists on a deck. Here is the history; 
Original timber was mechanically nailed with a twist shank type nail, which ended up with the boards splitting even when allegedly pre-drilled on the ends.      
Now all the boards have been replaced with new and screwed down using #8 x 41mm self drilling winged screws as listed here http://www.vipfastening.com.au/image...G208_HiRes.pdf using the QuikDrive system. 
I believe that these screws shown in the photo have been overdriven or counterbored too far, and also have a feeling that they are the incorrect size for the job?     
Here are some general pics, even some of the butt joints could be better and there seems to be a lot of "fur" around all the screw holes.       
I am thinking of asking the builder to do it again and I don't think I will like their reply, although I am trying to gather some information and industry facts to start with.
I would like some thoughts and opinions on this. 
Thanks in advance, Pete.

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## johnstonfencing

Can't see any pics  :Confused:

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## ssuterus

Hi,
I have a few queries regarding the best method of retaining merbau decking to steel joists, as well as requesting thoughts and comments on my current situation as follows; 
I currently have a firm putting together a merbau timber deck on steel joists, and there has been a couple of hurdles. 
Firstly the original boards laid down were mechanically nailed using twist shank nails which caused the boards to split, even on apparently pre-drilled holes.        
The builder agreed it was sub standard and has now replaced the decking boards and screwed them using the QuikDrive system seen here http://www.vipfastening.com.au/image...G208_HiRes.pdf , using a #8 x 41mm winged self drilling fiber cement board screw. 
I am not sure the correct size fastener was used and a lot of holes are overdriven or countersunk too far?     
Also attached are some general shots showing differences in butt joints and "fur" around the screw holes.     
I would really appreciate some thoughts and comments, as i am not happy with the job the second time around either, and thought i would gather some facts / info from people in the industry. 
I know the builder has tried to get the correct method sorted out this time and invested some time researching and have probably been recommended this system from a supplier, but i feel they have missed the mark again. 
Thanks in advance,
Pete.

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## ssuterus

> Can't see any pics

  Hmmm, they are showing for me??? Can anyone else see them?

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## Bedford

Sorry nope! :Smilie:

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## ssuterus

> Sorry nope!

  Ok, I have reposted another thread and will delete this one if it works. Just need the mods to approve it. 
Cheers Pete

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## ssuterus

> Can't see any pics

  Attachments added to first post, are they visible now?

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## TermiMonster

I can see them.

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## TermiMonster

not the best job I've ever seen, but probably acceptable, depending on original specifications.
TM

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## Bedford

> I can see them.

  Me Too, :Smilie:

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## John Harison

Hi Mate I don't think I'd be very Happy with that finished job looks very sloppy to me.!

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## Bedford

> not the best job I've ever seen, but probably acceptable, depending on original specifications.

  I agree, and I think you'll have a hell of a battle trying to get it done a third time.

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## ssuterus

> I agree, and I think you'll have a hell of a battle trying to get it done a third time.

  Is one supposed to now just accept the job because it has been done for the second time?   

> Hi Mate I don't think I'd be very Happy with that finished job looks very sloppy to me.!

  Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Especially for second attempt! 
Do the screws look suitable in diameter ( does #8 mean 8 guage?) or are they going to risk shearing the heads with expansion?
They also did a gable roof at the same time which requires modifications / rectification work. 
All in all very unhappy with my experience.

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## ScroozAdmin

Not the neatest I've seen, but not the worst either, its probably fit for purpose so its doubtful the builder will be obligated to redo it, you'll have to carefully negotiate the bits your not happy with and come to an agreement, ideally without all falling out.  
The 'furry' bits will knock off easily with a quick sand, theres no industry standard screw size for wing drillers and decking (although we only stock 10's and 12's) but 8g is the biggest diameter for the quick drive system, length is fine.

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## ssuterus

> Is one supposed to now just accept the job because it has been done for the second time?   
> Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Especially for second attempt! 
> Do the screws look suitable in diameter ( does #8 mean 8 guage?) or are they going to risk shearing the heads with expansion?
> They also did a gable roof at the same time which requires modifications / rectification work. 
> All in all very unhappy with my experience.

  I must add that most of this was replaced / reworked due to the supervisor not being happy either. I originally called him out because the deck was short of my brickwork by 100mm (go figure), then he saw the quality (or lack of) and decided to redo most of the job. This is how they "adjusted" the posts / footings originally concreted in.

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## Bloss

Have to say it is actually within the range of acceptable IMO. Splitting is almost impossible to stop even if pre-drilling - every piece of timber is different and unpredictable. 
Should never have used the nails, but the screws are placed OK - expecting exactly even and not a little above or below is simply not real world. So he has done remedial work. Slightly out of square end joins is not great, but again they are not even close to being the worst I've seen (but much worse than I do!). A lot of these things are the sort of stuff that are very visible to you as you do your close inspections, but once oiled and in use no-one else will ever notice unless you point them out. 
Not what you want to hear I suppose, but I detect a similar theme from some experienced members here so that would point to a similar reaction from the guy who did the deck if you go back again. In summary not the best deck you might have got, but acceptable. Oil it and start using it is my view.

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## ssuterus

Well, they fixed the decking for a 3rd time. Joist along the house had boards overhanging 5mm in the 90 deg corner of the walls, then on the outside near back yard where you see it, the boards were short by 10mm. This is a 20mm difference along a brick wall which was already established????? They left a 25mm gap for termite inspection between boards and bricks, but the joist was only 15mm from wall at noticeable end?.... Its been 5 days and I found a board already pulled the 8g screw from the joist, I don't like the longevity of this deck....... 
 Also they have redone the roof and this is what i ended up with!(see overhang of sheets)
Remember the beige is the rolled up lip (start) of sheet as i have differing colour top / bottom.   
Notice the paint missing from vibrating on saw horses....(silver marks)
Apparently the "factory cut" and supplied sheets were too long so they had to cut them by hand.... (nice and straight?, or they just love saw blade profiles...lol)
So now i end up with a "special at no extra cost flashing" to fix it. Once quizzed whether this is normally fitted i get the reply " No, but due to special circumstances (read incompetent) we give it to you for free!"  
The flashing doesn't even sit flush...   
It does look OK from a distance though...

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## Bloss

It does look OK superficially, but the slope seems shallow and you can expect that in a downpour and some directional storms water will get back under the sloped sections and will fall onto the decking. The flashing at the wall seems not to be properly done. Depends how hard you want to push really. Especially if you have already paid. If you haven't then you could use that as leverage to get some more things fixed, but you have to weigh that up against the likely quality of any remedial work. At some point you just have to say - "I don't want to deal with these x#%*ers  anymore" and then just keep an eye on things and get repairs done by others if anything goes wrong.  :Frown:

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