# Forum Home Renovation Asbestos  Cutting a hole in fibro board

## dabba

Hi, 
I am about to attempt to install an extractor vent in an external wall for a semi permanent portable air conditioning unit.
Its a stud wall with gyprock on the inside of the stud frame and fibro board on the outside and vinyl cladding on top of that.
I need a hole for the vent/exhaust pipe of about 150mm. Regards access, I can remove a section of the cladding from the outside to get up close with the fibro. 
The question I have is what tool/s are best used for making a hole in fibro board? 
In addition - the vintage of the house in particular this section (as there was a reno done in the 80's for an additional floor) i would say is pre-1980 so its fair to assume that the fibro board contains asbestos. 
From my understanding, undisturbed asbestos sheets are fine, its only when you create dust from drilling, cutting is when you have to make the necessary steps in capturing all the material/dust, keep it damp etc, etc... 
and before someone says 'your better off removing all fibro sheets and becoming asbestos free...', true, but I don't have that cash available at the moment, maybe in the future... I only need a hole of about 150mm wide... 
Any suggestions for making the hole....? 
Advice always appreciated,
Thanks

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## OBBob

There's a whole website on how to deal with it, which includes if you just need to cut or drill. If you must do it perhaps carefully drill a series of holes at low rpm to reduce dust and score / break out the pieces. Obviously taking all the other safety precautions.   Working safely with asbestos - Asbestos

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## Spottiswoode

I've heard recently that the best method to safely drill asbestos is to fill a plastic/paper cup with shaving foam, place it over the spot and go. The cup contains the drillings, the foam keeps everything moist and contained. Then pop the cup in double plastic bags, wipe off the drill bit with a disposable cloth and bag it then dispose.

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## OBBob

Great way to do catch it!

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## dabba

> I've heard recently that the best method to safely drill asbestos is to fill a plastic/paper cup with shaving foam, place it over the spot and go. The cup contains the drillings, the foam keeps everything moist and contained. Then pop the cup in double plastic bags, wipe off the drill bit with a disposable cloth and bag it then dispose.

  👍  
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## dabba

Thanks for the advice all 
Regards the drill bit/cutter to make the hole to get started, do you think a standard hole saw or speed bore/spade drill bit? All will that create too much dust ? (Even with shaving foam)  
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## METRIX

Speed bore is for timber, fibro will kill it, either use a tungsten tipped bit such as the kango multipurpose bits from Bunnings, they don't need hammer, if you want to do a series of small holes. 
Or use tungsten tipped Hole-saw the tungsten will go straight through it, I hate drilling any fibro as you just don't know what's in it without testing first.

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## Bloss

> Speed bore is for timber, fibro will kill it, either use a tungsten tipped bit such as the kango multipurpose bits from Bunnings, they don't need hammer, if you want to do a series of small holes. 
> Or use tungsten tipped Hole-saw the tungsten will go straight through it, I hate drilling any fibro as you just don't know what's in it without testing first.

   :What he said:  I use a spray bottle with water and a little washing up detergent and keep the area wet while drilling (as well as P2 mask & goggles) clean up with care and use disposable cleaning tools. I prefer a number of small holes with tungsten bit then tap or pry out the centre. Use side cutters or other suitable tool to breakout and smooth out not anything motorised.

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## joynz

If it's portable air con, could you put the hole somewhere else and avoid the need to cut the fibro? 
For example, into a window pane or through the floor if you have under floor space.

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## dabba

It's a semi portable air con, can cover the hole in the gyprock with a plastic spring loaded cover (get them from
Bunnings for $30) when not in use.
There's no suitable windows in the room it's intended for, only sliding doors.  
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## dabba

Meant semi permanent sorry  
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## NZC

I just use a normal holesaw and keep a garden sprayer going while I drill. When finished just paint the edges with PVA to contain the fibres.

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## mudbrick

> I just use a normal holesaw and keep a garden sprayer going while I drill. When finished just paint the edges with PVA to contain the fibres.

   So the water washes the fibres down the wall onto the ground? what happens after the water dries off and the next wind starts blowing the fibres around?

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## METRIX

Probably best to stay indoors forever, and only go out in a bubble just to be sure  :Tongue:

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## NZC

> So the water washes the fibres down the wall onto the ground? what happens after the water dries off and the next wind starts blowing the fibres around?

  You wipe it with a wet rag, dispose of the rags in a taped up bag. Spray the whole wall if you like but you don't need too.

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## DBR

Hole saw- no good - hole too large.... Spade bit-- too much dust....   Simply use a compass to mark out circle then drill small holes with standard drill bit at small intervals around the circle then hit circle out with a hammer..- this technique machines smaller amount of fibro material..             Secondly the shaving cream and cup method is quite stupid and impractical-- I used to recomnend it but the problem is you can't see what your doing!!       Best to use a spray bottle with heaps of dishwashing liquid 1/2 1/2 mix--- the bubbles and thick liquid will contain dust but still allow you to do what your doing.....  
Lastly ,, even if you just went ahead and drilled through it dry without any protection the facts are that your risk of illness from a one off exposure such as this is less than one in a million... -not excusing that it is dangerous but I  sometimes I think this fact is overlooked by those who are accidentally exposed and then worry (such as I used to do until I bypassed the media and looked into it further)).. 
Take care..

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## joynz

> Lastly ,, even if you just went ahead and drilled through it dry without any protection the facts are that your risk of illness from a one off exposure such as this is less than one in a million... -not excusing that it is dangerous but I  sometimes I think this fact is overlooked by those who are accidentally exposed and then worry (such as I used to do until I bypassed the media and looked into it further)).. 
> Take care..

  Hi DBR,  
how have you reached the 'one in a million' risk figure you quoted?

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## DBR

> Hi DBR,  
> how have you reached the 'one in a million' risk figure you quoted?

  Professor henderson-   trigger a fatal cancer. But unless they have been working in an industry that used asbestos, living with someone who did, or serially renovating old houses that contain the deadliest forms of the naturally occurring mineral, the chances of a person developing malignant mesothelioma are extremely low, says Douglas Henderson, professor of pathology at Adelaide's Flinders University. Among people who did not remember any incident in which they were exposed to asbestos, the individual rate of the cancer was less than one in a million annually, Professor Henderson said. He advises people who are anxious they may have had a one-off, casual exposure to asbestos dust in the home that they "have a greater chance of winning the state lottery on three consecutive occasions than dying of one of these diseases".

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## OBBob

Wow ... you went away for a month and you've returned a changed man!!  :Yikes2:

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## joynz

> Professor henderson-   trigger a fatal cancer. But unless they have been working in an industry that used asbestos, living with someone who did, or serially renovating old houses that contain the deadliest forms of the naturally occurring mineral, the chances of a person developing malignant mesothelioma are extremely low, says Douglas Henderson, professor of pathology at Adelaide's Flinders University. Among people who did not remember any incident in which they were exposed to asbestos, the individual rate of the cancer was less than one in a million annually, Professor Henderson said. He advises people who are anxious they may have had a one-off, casual exposure to asbestos dust in the home that they "have a greater chance of winning the state lottery on three consecutive occasions than dying of one of these diseases".

  Professor Henderson has also said that home renovators' exposure will result in significant numbers of mesothelioma disease.  Quoted in Domain.com.au on 14 February 2012:  'A professor of pathology at Flinders University, Adelaide, Douglas Henderson, said he expected “less then 2, or even 1 per cent” of home renovators exposed would develop mesothelioma, but that would still amount to significant numbers. “With home renovators they have low exposure, and so they would have a low risk. *But when you multiply that low risk across tens of thousands you will see significant numbers of mesothelioma as a result.”'*

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## Spottiswoode

> Professor henderson-   trigger a fatal cancer. But unless they have been working in an industry that used asbestos, living with someone who did, or serially renovating old houses that contain the deadliest forms of the naturally occurring mineral, the chances of a person developing malignant mesothelioma are extremely low, says Douglas Henderson, professor of pathology at Adelaide's Flinders University. Among people who did not remember any incident in which they were exposed to asbestos, the individual rate of the cancer was less than one in a million annually, Professor Henderson said. He advises people who are anxious they may have had a one-off, casual exposure to asbestos dust in the home that they "have a greater chance of winning the state lottery on three consecutive occasions than dying of one of these diseases".

  While I don't think we should throw all caution to the wind, we haven't had an entire generation of builders, electricians, plumbers and brake mechanics die out because of asbestos - kinda backs up what is quote above.  
Take precautions, be smart about what you do and the risks are very small. Be alert not alarmed

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## dabba

I adopted the spray bottle with a water/washing up liquid mix and sprayed the fibro sheet well. Sealed off the area where i was working with bin liners and duct tape as best i could.
I made small holes with a hole saw on low rpms, I found the dust to be minimal, none in fact when I kept applying the spray. Continued to shape the rest of the hole by breaking the sheet using a set of plumbers grips.
Made sure all dust/waste (as best i could) was wiped up using damp rags (including wiping down the tools used). Disposed them in the bin liners.
One thing i noticed with the damp fibro filings was that the colour changed to a green colour the more wet it got, is that confirmation that the board contains the deadly asbestos fibre...? 
After all the effort to prepare the site, seemed a huge job for a small hole!
I guess there is profitable money to be made from the asbestos removal industry...!!

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## intertd6

> I adopted the spray bottle with a water/washing up liquid mix and sprayed the fibro sheet well. Sealed off the area where i was working with bin liners and duct tape as best i could.
> I made small holes with a hole saw on low rpms, I found the dust to be minimal, none in fact when I kept applying the spray. Continued to shape the rest of the hole by breaking the sheet using a set of plumbers grips.
> Made sure all dust/waste (as best i could) was wiped up using damp rags (including wiping down the tools used). Disposed them in the bin liners.
> One thing i noticed with the damp fibro filings was that the colour changed to a green colour the more wet it got, is that confirmation that the board contains the deadly asbestos fibre...? 
> After all the effort to prepare the site, seemed a huge job for a small hole!
> I guess there is profitable money to be made from the asbestos removal industry...!!

  what you have done is sounds irresponsible, you have put the the waste into bin liners, then what? Did it go into your regular waste disposal? If that's the case then it goes to the tip, that bag could be then blown open by a waste compactor & then the operator & the staff at the tip have a chance at breathing in those fibres as well, the advice is not to disturb asbestos! Full stop! And there are good reasons for that as its the gift that keeps on giving in the worst ways.
inter

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## joynz

> what you have done is sounds irresponsible, you have put the the waste into bin liners, then what? Did it go into your regular waste disposal? If that's the case then it goes to the tip, that bag could be then blown open by a waste compactor & then the operator & the staff at the tip have a chance at breathing in those fibres as well, the advice is not to disturb asbestos! Full stop! And there are good reasons for that as its the gift that keeps on giving in the worst ways.
> inter

  Well said Interd6

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## Spottiswoode

> what you have done is sounds irresponsible, you have put the the waste into bin liners, then what? Did it go into your regular waste disposal? If that's the case then it goes to the tip, that bag could be then blown open by a waste compactor & then the operator & the staff at the tip have a chance at breathing in those fibres as well, the advice is not to disturb asbestos! Full stop! And there are good reasons for that as its the gift that keeps on giving in the worst ways.
> inter

  Sometimes we have to disturb asbestos. Ideally, that a would only be to remove all trace of it, but let's be realistic not everyone can afford to do that. While not complying with the legal requirements I'd much rather see a responsible renovator bag and wrap his damp asbestos and rags and place it in a bin that is transported in a truck with very limited human contact than the ratbags that smash it up and dump it in the bush. Knowing that asbestos just ends up on the tip face amongst the other rubbish anyway there is very limited potential harm from the actions described.

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## intertd6

> Sometimes we have to disturb asbestos. Ideally, that a would only be to remove all trace of it, but let's be realistic not everyone can afford to do that. While not complying with the legal requirements I'd much rather see a responsible renovator bag and wrap his damp asbestos and rags and place it in a bin that is transported in a truck with very limited human contact than the ratbags that smash it up and dump it in the bush. Knowing that asbestos just ends up on the tip face amongst the other rubbish anyway there is very limited potential harm from the actions described.

   WTF!!! Some people can be told, just not very much it seems!
inter

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## Jon

I dont know what the solution is but there needs to be an easy an affordable (free) way to get rid of small quantities of asbestos. 
And for commercial quantities it probably also should be free to encourage more people to get rid of it during renovations rather than cover it for the next guy to worry about. 
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## joynz

There is a way to get rid of small amounts, including contaminated damp rags.   
You bag it up, and take it to the nearest place that is licensed to receive asbestos. 
Why should it be free?  When I take soil or bricks or other rubbish to the tip, there is a charge.    *Putting asbestos dust in the household rubbish is a really low life thing to do.*

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## Spottiswoode

Taking asbestos to the tip should be free. There is no other place for it, unlike a lot of waste that could be reused. Making it free, or very low cost would encourage people to do the right thing. Asbestos, at least at our local, costs more than general rubbish becuase it has an additional handling fee. This actively discourages people from declaring it and taking it in legally. 
i still stand by that a couple of damp rags bagged up is of next to no risk - but still illegal. Dumping in the bush is dangerous, throwing a few dry sheets in the household bin is dangerous, a couple of bagged damp rags is not - but still illegal. 
combine that with the fact that tip faces are not crawling with humans, they are manned, but by people in filtered, air conditioned, enclosed cabins in the most part. The bin gets picked up by a truck arm, carted in an enclosed body, tipped from the cabin and the trucks are washed out with water - low risk again.

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## pharmaboy2

> what you have done is sounds irresponsible, you have put the the waste into bin liners, then what? Did it go into your regular waste disposal? If that's the case then it goes to the tip, that bag could be then blown open by a waste compactor & then the operator & the staff at the tip have a chance at breathing in those fibres as well, the advice is not to disturb asbestos! Full stop! And there are good reasons for that as its the gift that keeps on giving in the worst ways.
> inter

  The reality is the waste sites know full well that inside any given domestic dump truck there is a reasonable chance of asbestos sheet being contained therein.  These are big businesses and not fools - they have risk management and employee protection in place

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## pharmaboy2

> Taking asbestos to the tip should be free. There is no other place for it, unlike a lot of waste that could be reused. Making it free, or very low cost would encourage people to do the right thing. Asbestos, at least at our local, costs more than general rubbish becuase it has an additional handling fee. This actively discourages people from declaring it and taking it in legally. 
> i still stand by that a couple of damp rags bagged up is of next to no risk - but still illegal. Dumping in the bush is dangerous, throwing a few dry sheets in the household bin is dangerous, a couple of bagged damp rags is not - but still illegal. 
> combine that with the fact that tip faces are not crawling with humans, they are manned, but by people in filtered, air conditioned, enclosed cabins in the most part. The bin gets picked up by a truck arm, carted in an enclosed body, tipped from the cabin and the trucks are washed out with water - low risk again.

  stop being sensible. 
my professionally disposed 7 or 8 square meters of fibro cost $900 to dispose - cotton suits, shoe covers, hepa filters, washing of masks, roll of plastic and tape, truck taken to dump with all the above bagged and taped to land fill - including the dumps admin fee to book the time to dump.  in hindsight I should have done what most would have done before I went on holiday

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## Jon

> There is a way to get rid of small amounts, including contaminated damp rags.   
> You bag it up, and take it to the nearest place that is licensed to receive asbestos. 
> Why should it be free?  When I take soil or bricks or other rubbish to the tip, there is a charge.    *Putting asbestos dust in the household rubbish is a really low life thing to do.*

  The reason that it should be able to be disposed of in the correct manner for free is that it is in everyone's best interest to get it out of buildings and the like.
A pile of bricks or dirt is only a hazard to your eyes, or your big toe if you trip over it.  A pile of asbestos on the other hand. ... 
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## Spottiswoode

> stop being sensible. 
> my professionally disposed 7 or 8 square meters of fibro cost $900 to dispose - cotton suits, shoe covers, hepa filters, washing of masks, roll of plastic and tape, truck taken to dump with all the above bagged and taped to land fill - including the dumps admin fee to book the time to dump.  in hindsight I should have done what most would have done before I went on holiday

   And when you get the 'pro's' to do it there is a chance they are going to collect the cash from you and make a massive profit by dumping illegally. Another reason to make asbestos cheaper at the legal tip.

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## intertd6

> The reality is the waste sites know full well that inside any given domestic dump truck there is a reasonable chance of asbestos sheet being contained therein.  These are big businesses and not fools - they have risk management and employee protection in place

   I haven't seen staff or operators at the tip suited up & wearing face masks going about their daily tasks, by the sounds of it they should be!
inter

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## pharmaboy2

> I haven't seen staff or operators at the tip suited up & wearing face masks going about their daily tasks, by the sounds of it they should be!
> inter

  No.  You may have not have been at tip face when domestic dumpers come in (or shouldn't have been), trucks and bulldozers have enclosed air conditioned cabins - there arent blokes wandering about on foot

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## joynz

> No.  You may have not have been at tip face when domestic dumpers come in (or shouldn't have been), trucks and bulldozers have enclosed air conditioned cabins - there arent blokes wandering about on foot

  Are you employed in the waste industry Pharmaboy?

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## pharmaboy2

> Are you employed in the waste industry Pharmaboy?

  Nah, I'm talking out my @@@@.....  :Wink: . A few mates do OH&S in mines and heavy equipment  and ones a waste mgmt ex CEO - seperation of men and heavy equipment is std, as is dust mgmt

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## joynz

> Nah, I'm talking out my @@@@..... . A few mates do OH&S in mines and heavy equipment  and ones a waste mgmt ex CEO - seperation of men and heavy equipment is std, as is dust mgmt

  When I take stuff to the local tip (landfill site), other people are just tipping stuff out. No masks. 
So if someone has asbestos mixed in with their soil or broken bits of plaster etc, then there is actually no protection from wind blown contamination.

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## webtubbs

> When I take stuff to the local tip (landfill site), other people are just tipping stuff out. No masks. 
> So if someone has asbestos mixed in with their soil or broken bits of plaster etc, then there is actually no protection from wind blown contamination.

  How many have long sleeve shirts, long pants, a hat and other sun protection? Assuming there actually has been asbestos dumped dry and unwrapped, you're more likely to develop melanoma.

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## joynz

> How many have long sleeve shirts, long pants, a hat and other sun protection? Assuming there actually has been asbestos dumped dry and unwrapped, you're more likely to develop melanoma.

  The big difference is that we can be responsible for our own sun exposure, but we can't know if some scumbags have dumped asbestos with their rubbish so it's hard to ensure that we or our loved ones aren't exposed. 
I'm in a good position to comment on this, as I have had a melanoma and also had a fair bit of asbestos around my house (which I dispose of responsibly).

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## Marc

I had gangrene in one leg and always recycle the rusty nails and the apple cores.

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## joynz

:Smilie:

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## pharmaboy2

> When I take stuff to the local tip (landfill site), other people are just tipping stuff out. No masks. 
> So if someone has asbestos mixed in with their soil or broken bits of plaster etc, then there is actually no protection from wind blown contamination.

  Jeez, all my locals are dump into a waste bin and it's taken to the tip face, household garbage goes to a seperate area. 
anyway, there's a presumption in your replies that a small possible exposure is deadly.  I come from the point of view that the risk of small exposure to asbestos as it is in fibro is a tiny risk, around equal with shark attack.  Now I know people won't swim in the ocean because of this fear, but it doesn't make the fear rational. 
when the risk of dying in a given year over 60 is around 1 in 20, a meselthelioma risk for small unquantified exposures of a one in a million, doesn't really sit on my radar.  Key things to cut your risk, don't have a career of cutting fibro in a work shed with a diamond blade, don't work for JH or CSR, and don't bet he wife of said worker. 
oh, and tell your mum you love her.

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## intertd6

> No.  You may have not have been at tip face when domestic dumpers come in (or shouldn't have been), trucks and bulldozers have enclosed air conditioned cabins - there arent blokes wandering about on foot

  i used to regularly work at a tip as we had a depot in here for our department , so you're trying it on with the wrong person. Also I don't know of any trucks, plant & machinery that comes with HEPA filters, or are available, some country tips have machinery with open canopies. 
The weigh bridge, greenwaste, asbestos, recycling, public & other personnel that are on the ground & surrounding areas have no protection from some idiots doing the wrong thing.
if the chances were one in a million, then there would only be 20 people with asbestosis at one time.
inter

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## ringtail

In Brisbane, before they got all Nazi about asbestos removal, one could remove and dispose of as much as one could remove without any licence, permit etc... Double wrapped etc......Anyway, I removed a heap and took it to the waste depot. I was directed to an area where I was to unload. It was just like any other landfill site. Heaps of black plastic wrapped items on the ground. Then a D9 rolls over the top of all, crushing it, ripping the plastic, then pushes it into a hole.  Got outta there quick but anyone that thinks asbestos is disposed of carefully is kidding themselves. I got a skip for the next load I removed.

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## joynz

> In Brisbane, before they got all Nazi about asbestos removal, one could remove and dispose of as much as one could remove without any licence, permit etc... Double wrapped etc......Anyway, I removed a heap and took it to the waste depot. I was directed to an area where I was to unload. It was just like any other landfill site. Heaps of black plastic wrapped items on the ground. Then a D9 rolls over the top of all, crushing it, ripping the plastic, then pushes it into a hole.  Got outta there quick but anyone that thinks asbestos is disposed of carefully is kidding themselves. I got a skip for the next load I removed.

  So, not reassured by the 'one in a million chance' of asbestosis referred to by DBR and Pharmaboy?

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## ringtail

I was upwind  :Biggrin:  . The guys driving the dozers on the other hand. A real eye opener though as that's how it's done. Dig a hole, crush it up so more can fit in that hole, then push it in. I'm glad the public aren't allowed to DIY dispose anymore. But think about it, asbestos skips, how do they get emptied ? Delicate ? I think not. Tipped, crushed and pushed into a hole. I do think the chances are low though. Far worse asbestos exposure to anyone who has ever changed a car tyre.

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## pharmaboy2

> if the chances were one in a million, then there would only be 20 people with asbestosis at one time.
> inter

  context counts.  one in a million for dump worker levels of exposure 
people with asbestosis overwhelmingly work in the occupations mentioned already with direct clear exposure of dangerous levels of asbestos. 
by the way, that's not how chance works.  It was quoted as 1:1000000 per year not total population.  The inference is that approximately 20 people per year are diagnosed with meselthelioma (I think that's what the reference was to, not asbestosis) who have no obvious exposure

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## intertd6

> context counts.  one in a million for dump worker levels of exposure 
> people with asbestosis overwhelmingly work in the occupations mentioned already with direct clear exposure of dangerous levels of asbestos. 
> by the way, that's not how chance works.  It was quoted as 1:1000000 per year not total population.  The inference is that approximately 20 people per year are diagnosed with meselthelioma (I think that's what the reference was to, not asbestosis) who have no obvious exposure

   Your numbers are completely wrong, 614 people died from asbestosis or related diseases in 2014 in Australia , thats around 1:32,000 across the general population, the incedence rate of those who are regularly exposed is way more, it's toxic crap & needs to be treated with respect .
inter

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## phild01

> Your numbers are completely wrong, 614 people died from asbestosis or related diseases in 2014 in Australia , thats around 1:32,000 across the general population, the incedence rate of those who are regularly exposed is way more, it's toxic crap & needs to be treated with respect .
> inter

  Of those 614, do we know how many were regularly exposed to asbestos!

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## ringtail

And how old were they ? Are they from the asbestos generation and 80 yo ?

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## Marc

> In Brisbane, before they got all Nazi about asbestos removal, one could remove and dispose of as much as one could remove without any licence, permit etc... Double wrapped etc......Anyway, I removed a heap and took it to the waste depot. I was directed to an area where I was to unload. It was just like any other landfill site. Heaps of black plastic wrapped items on the ground. Then a D9 rolls over the top of all, crushing it, ripping the plastic, then pushes it into a hole.  Got outta there quick but anyone that thinks asbestos is disposed of carefully is kidding themselves. I got a skip for the next load I removed.

  I don't know what surprises you, waste disposal is the business of mafia.

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## intertd6

> Of those 614, do we know how many were regularly exposed to asbestos!

   

> And how old were they ? Are they from the asbestos generation and 80 yo ?

  everybody is exposed to asbestos fibres, the more fibres the greater the incedence, there is no safe level of exposure.
nothing surprises me about the stories coming out of QLD & the retards that do that sort of thing.
inter

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## ringtail

Happens nation wide. Anywhere where there is landfill there are bulldozers. Anywhere there are bulldozers there is crushing and pushing. Do you really expect a few layers of black plastic to hold together ? AC sheeting is sharp and punctures plastic all by itself no problem at all. As I said earlier, if you think southern asbestos gets treated any differently you're kidding yourself.

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## intertd6

> Happens nation wide. Anywhere where there is landfill there are bulldozers. Anywhere there are bulldozers there is crushing and pushing. Do you really expect a few layers of black plastic to hold together ? AC sheeting is sharp and punctures plastic all by itself no problem at all. As I said earlier, if you think southern asbestos gets treated any differently you're kidding yourself.

  if they are treating a hazardous substance like that they are retards what ever state it's in, it isn't treated like that at our tip & if it was I'd be straight on the blower to workcover, which you should have done, it's the responsible thing to do.
inter

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## pharmaboy2

> Your numbers are completely wrong, 614 people died from asbestosis or related diseases in 2014 in Australia , thats around 1:32,000 across the general population, the incedence rate of those who are regularly exposed is way more, it's toxic crap & needs to be treated with respect .
> inter

  you don't get why the numbers can completely agree with each other?  
So what if the incidence rate of those regularly exposed is way more as you say - for instance for a mine worker, maybe 1 in 50, simialr for a James Hardie worker.  Let's say that there are 30,000 workers with this history .  That's 2% of 30,000 or 600 of your 614.   See what effect exposure has on individual risk based on circumstances? 
thats how you end up with epidemiologists saying background population risk is only 1 in a million.

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## intertd6

> you don't get why the numbers can completely agree with each other?  
> So what if the incidence rate of those regularly exposed is way more as you say - for instance for a mine worker, maybe 1 in 50, simialr for a James Hardie worker.  Let's say that there are 30,000 workers with this history .  That's 2% of 30,000 or 600 of your 614.   See what effect exposure has on individual risk based on circumstances? 
> thats how you end up with epidemiologists saying background population risk is only 1 in a million.

  Ah that's 614 a year & I heard its growing, so that shoots down your pet theory, if you can come up with some other real numbers , let's see them, you are downplaying a real risk & portraying " it will never happen to me" syndrome.
inter

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## phild01

It was 641 in 2014 and peak numbers are expected between that year and 2021.
But interestingly, of the 641, 80% were men and I would assume because of the environment they worked in.  Some of the women would have too but I think the female mortality rate might suggest that the major influence being that of the work environment, that of carpenters, boiler makers, power plant operators, railway workers and naval workers. Australia - Asbestos Use, Mesothelioma & Asbestos Laws

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## PhilT2

From the link above...
Construction workers and carpenters may be at a particularly high risk of asbestos exposure. A study of 600 mesothelioma patients in the UK and Australia revealed that 1 in 10 retired carpenters born prior to 1950 would die of asbestos-related cancer.

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## pharmaboy2

5 minute read of a science take on the problem and how it's changing  Understanding the killer within - ScienceAlert 
many of the more mature of us would remember the choking cloud of dust when dry cutting CFC, now include the 1970's when what was been cut was brown asbestos.

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## DBR

> i used to regularly work at a tip as we had a depot in here for our department , so you're trying it on with the wrong person. Also I don't know of any trucks, plant & machinery that comes with HEPA filters, or are available, some country tips have machinery with open canopies. 
> The weigh bridge, greenwaste, asbestos, recycling, public & other personnel that are on the ground & surrounding areas have no protection from some idiots doing the wrong thing.
> if the chances were one in a million, then there would only be 20 people with asbestosis at one time.
> inter

  
Hi inter6,,, 
"the one in a million" figure that henderson gave refers to domestic/ householders that have had an accidental one off exposure- thus the reason why there is more than only 20 people with mesothelioma at one time.. the additional 280 would have been exposed at work daily or whilst washing clothes from asbestos worker....... 
Further, in relation to your statement "only be 20 people with asbestosis at one time"- you need to realise that there are 3 diseases that asbestos causes----  asbestosis - which is progressive scarring of the lung after years of daily exposure to asbestos- this is only found in those who have worked daily with asbestos for a number of years....  - asbestosis increases the risk of lung cancer through irritation and inflamation- chronic.....      then there is mesothelioma which kills very quickly and is a nasty cruel disease--- However mesothelioma is extremely rare to the individual even to those exposed to asbestos......      BUT... multiple casual exposure across a large population and there will be more mesothelioma deaths... 
I hope that makes sense??  Reason why i write is because i ahve been exposed heavily approximately 3 times for reasons out of my control (a) helping a relative use an outdoor vacuum to clean up asbestos dust after he just finished drilling a series of holes without telling me.. (b) blowing off brake dust in my uncles workshop once a week over a year as a kid for casual work..... (c) forraging through a highly contaminated power plant as a child and making cubby houses out of scrap pieces....            Despite the listed exposures- after reading internet articles i would be convinced im going to cark it---- however whilst this may be possible- the chance of me carking it due to my exposures would be way less than 1 in 100,000..... Yes a risk, but nothing worth worry or concern.... 
Nonetheless it is deadly stuff, and why take any risk at all??? but important that for those exposed and their mental state that risks are put into perspective????? its easy to read up on the intenret and become over worried about it all- as occured with me till i bypassed the shock articles and contacted specialists...  
important to be careful, but not paranoid.

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## Spottiswoode

> important to be careful, but not paranoid.

  this. Unfortunately there is much in the media and seems to generate a lot of paranoia.

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## OBBob

> this. Unfortunately there is much in the media and seems to generate a lot of paranoia.

  .... and it's not restricted to this issue.

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## joynz

Hi DBR 
I agree with your point about not being paranoid.  However, I think that applies to accidental exposures we can't control. 
The original post was about *choosing* to drill through asbestos sheeting. 
Subsequently, some posters have suggested that it is *OK to dispose of asbestos in the household rubbish*. 
Both of these actions are deliberate not accidental.

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## phild01

I wonder why JH doesn't play an ongoing part in the disposal of this stuff!

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## geoff70

Hello, old thread. I drilled some asbestos sheeting today (and am now worried!) I was told by the previous owner that it had all been replaced and as there are new gutters and colourbond facias I thought this was correct. I was not 100% sure so. I tried to put up a security camera and drilled, with a holesaw, a 32mm hole and 3 smaller 4.5mm holes for the screws. As I "stupidly" assumed it was not asbestos I did not spray down but merely drilled. I had a P2 half face mask on and goggles (thank goodness!) and took the hole saw sample, double bagged, out to get checked. The results came back positive. I have since applied PVA glue to the cutouts and used a shovel to double bag a small amount of tan bark which was dusty. I have since thrown out a good pair of jeans, jumper, socks, t-shirt, and wiped down the drill with rubber gloves and wet rag. I didn't (knowingly) breath any in but I must say I feel like a right d!ckhead for doing this without taking further precautions and/or getting it checked. I am of course hesitant to put the bloody camera up now. The whole thing has left me in somewhat of a shock.

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## joynz

Don't worry, you were wearing a mask, so it's fine. 
I would just have swished the clothes by hand in a big tub of water with a bit of detergent in it. (Followed with a couple of changes of rinsing water) and hung to dry on the clothesline, outside.

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## dabba

> Hello, old thread. I drilled some asbestos sheeting today (and am now worried!) I was told by the previous owner that it had all been replaced and as there are new gutters and colourbond facias I thought this was correct. I was not 100% sure so. I tried to put up a security camera and drilled, with a holesaw, a 32mm hole and 3 smaller 4.5mm holes for the screws. As I "stupidly" assumed it was not asbestos I did not spray down but merely drilled. I had a P2 half face mask on and goggles (thank goodness!) and took the hole saw sample, double bagged, out to get checked. The results came back positive. I have since applied PVA glue to the cutouts and used a shovel to double bag a small amount of tan bark which was dusty. I have since thrown out a good pair of jeans, jumper, socks, t-shirt, and wiped down the drill with rubber gloves and wet rag. I didn't (knowingly) breath any in but I must say I feel like a right d!ckhead for doing this without taking further precautions and/or getting it checked. I am of course hesitant to put the bloody camera up now. The whole thing has left me in somewhat of a shock.

  It's well documented the risk of the asbestos fibre and the exposure people have had prior to understanding the affects. However, I do feel that sometimes asbestos is treated like a potential anthrax outbreak. 
I'm sure there has to be a middle ground, where a sensible but practical approach can be taken in handling and disposal of it.     _tapacrap removed_

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## geoff70

Hello, yes. I probably am prone to panicking. I read after I should have used shaving cream etc. I "Should" in any case treated "it" with more respect, I'm old enough to know better! Hindsight is 20/20. Moral of the story is treat fibroboard etc as if it were asbestos unless you are 100% sure (have it tested) I am full of remorse for doing it. Let's hope this %$# camera works well eh. Should I put a sleeve around the hole, and if so what? I was thinking of making a round wooden cover with a slightly smaller diameter hole for the cables to feed through, thereby missing the "cut" fibro completely and just glue it on, top and bottom say like a 50c sized piece. Anyhow thanks for the replies, nasty stuff.

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## dabba

> Hello, yes. I probably am prone to panicking. I read after I should have used shaving cream etc. I "Should" in any case treated "it" with more respect, I'm old enough to know better! Hindsight is 20/20. Moral of the story is treat fibroboard etc as if it were asbestos unless you are 100% sure (have it tested) I am full of remorse for doing it. Let's hope this %$# camera works well eh. Should I put a sleeve around the hole, and if so what? I was thinking of making a round wooden cover with a slightly smaller diameter hole for the cables to feed through, thereby missing the "cut" fibro completely and just glue it on, top and bottom say like a 50c sized piece. Anyhow thanks for the replies, nasty stuff.

  Have you thought of using silicon for containment?
Remember it's disturbed fibro dust that is the issue, not an intact sheet. 
You may see earlier in the thread but I had a similar problem in making a hole for a vent for an air con unit.
Essentially I keep the drilling to a minimum and rather broke/snapped pieces of the fibro board.
The work area was sealed off as much as possible using duct tape and bin bags. Sprayed the area with water, shaving foam also can work.
(Note assuming the fibre board contained the deadly asbestos fibre).
Wore the necessary PPE. Wiped all tools down with a damp cloth and disposed of any fibro sheet in an appropriate and safe manner. 
IMO make precautions SFAIRP (so far as is reasonably practical) 
Unless you don't go snorting it like an 'A' lister at an MTV after party, you should be fine.   _tapacrap removed_

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## geoff70

The test came back and it contains all 3 types. What people were thinking making this stuff is beyond me. I assume there will be some dust residue above the sheet, not sure if I should get someone to vacuum it out or just leave it, wipe it with a damp cloth and dispose etc. There was a fair amount of dust created the bloody hole saw. It mostly fell to the ground, it was not windy yesterday. To be sure I ditched the clothes. I have sealed the hole with a paint brush dipped in PVA glue, not sure how good that is?

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## Spottiswoode

If worried about the dust above give it a misting with some water, get some damp disposable towelling and wipe it up. Double bag the damp cloths and dispose. Protect your breathing bits and have a good old wash of everything you've used and yourself afterwards. 
At the end of the day, with properly handled asbestos the risk is pretty low but the hysteria around it is astounding.

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## geoff70

Hello. I'll tell you what happened. I came home yesterday lunchtime with my normal clothes on, shoes etc and decided to drill. I donned my mask and goggles and drilled.  After I finished I cleaned up the tools with water, washed my hands at the garden tap, took my jumper off, took my mask off and went inside. I put the jumper in the hamper, washed my face then put my motorcycle helmet on and went to back to work. I then got the e-mail from the sample, freaked out, when I knocked off I came home and ditched the trousers and socks (not sure about #%# suede shoes yet) and then went inside, ditched the jumper and t-shirt I had on and had a shower, hair and all.   
I'm having a bad afternoon as now I'm freaked that I had some on my hair and its not in my bike helmet and bike jacket, not to mention the hamper. I think I'm overreacting a bit but after speaking to Robson Environmental again today (I phoned them) they reckon the stuff with all 3 asbestos products could contain up to 60% of the stuff. I mean it was only 1 x 32mm hole and 3 4.5mm holes but there was dust! Do I wash the lining of the helmet out (yes, and the jacket too) thoughts? Besides take a Valium?  Man I feel like the biggest idiot in the world, good old hindsight. I wish now I had never touched the stuff!

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## pharmaboy2

3 valium 
when you wake up, take 3 more and so on and so forth. 
asbestos is in 90% of houses pre 1980 - think of all the renovation that has gone on, and you probably have 7 or 8 million adults in Australia with low level exposure like yours.  Incidentalll, if you smoke your risk goes up 5 or tenfold, so take it as a reason to quit.   
Dont sweat it, you are at least a 1000 times more likely to die of cancer caused by eating charred red meat

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## geoff70

Mate if i had em! I dont smoke which is good. I have 2 little kids too which freaks me out. I did vacuum the house yesterday also. After i showered!    _tapacrap removed_

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## phild01

Gotta stop worrying, you had a mask on.  I wouldn't have thrown my clothes out either. Were the kids under your feet when you drilled it out!

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## geoff70

Lol no. Bit of a stress head.   _tapacrap removed_

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## dabba

Don't beat yourself up over asbestos...     _tapacrap removed_

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## geoff70

Indeed dabba indeed.   _tapacrap removed_

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## geoff70

I just had a good read of this whole thread, from the beginning. I guess one tends to freak out because of what is suggested online to do, full coveralls, mask, gloves, goggles, don't drill (oops) and use shaving cream or whatever. Then throw out mask, rinse tools, wipe down drill, throw out coveralls, go inside and have a shower, wash hair, cleanse under fingernails etc! Is it any wonder I freak out!! I have rinsed my bike jacket, helmet and helmet liner in a bucket of water and rinsed 2 times.So I can sleep better....

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## Spottiswoode

> I just had a good read of this whole thread, from the beginning. I guess one tends to freak out because of what is suggested online to do, full coveralls, mask, gloves, goggles, don't drill (oops) and use shaving cream or whatever. Then throw out mask, rinse tools, wipe down drill, throw out coveralls, go inside and have a shower, wash hair, cleanse under fingernails etc! Is it any wonder I freak out!! I have rinsed my bike jacket, helmet and helmet liner in a bucket of water and rinsed 2 times.So I can sleep better....

  Sounds like you're all good now. Enjoy your sleep...  but make sure you lock the doors, I hear there is a freaky clown in the area.  :Shock:  :Yikes2:  :Sneaktongue:

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## geoff70

Thanks mate, I appreciate the honest advice and stuff. If I had a camera installed I could monitor for said clown...

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## johnc

There would be thousands of people who have done exactly what you did and be unaware there was any risk. In actual fact having worn a facemask there is probably zero risk anyway, I'd be fairly angry with the old owner as this would be the original bad stuff with the three types so there is no way any eave sheet has been removed and their lie inadvertent or otherwise puts others at risk. Anyway try that Valium and a good lie down you have nothing to worry about.

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## geoff70

Thanks. I had a certified remover come out today for a free look which was great. He said its all in exellemt condition..keep the paint up every 7 years or so. Wipe down what i have done with wet cloth with ppe of course. At least i know now. Never assume is my new motto. At 44 i should know better. He also said seal with pva or spray paint. Already pva the other night. He said to remove this one sheet would be 900 which he said is over the top given its otherwise good condition. So the stuff with 3 is the old bad stuff eh?  _tapacrap removed_

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## johnc

> Thanks. I had a certified remover come out today for a free look which was great. He said its all in exellemt condition..keep the paint up every 7 years or so. Wipe down what i have done with wet cloth with ppe of course. At least i know now. Never assume is my new motto. At 44 i should know better. He also said seal with pva or spray paint. Already pva the other night. He said to remove this one sheet would be 900 which he said is over the top given its otherwise good condition. So the stuff with 3 is the old bad stuff eh? 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

  My understanding is that the blue was phased out first which is the worst followed by brown, with the third risk type finally removed in the mid 1980's, don't rely on this comment though I'm using a faulty memory on the product. Like many here I have had some exposure to the stuff when younger and am quite comfortable removing sheets according to the rules, even breathing in a bucket load of the worst type in dust form is still unlikely to have an adverse outcome, although if it does the outcome is fatal. What gets me is that in Victoria if I have a few bits of the stuff that take up no more space than what will fit in the palm of your hand it will still cost over $100 to legally dispose of it at the local tip. A disincentive to those who refuse to pay and then dump it in their bin or mix it up with other rubbish. Despite the cost I have no time for those that illegally dump the stuff, the clothes and wipes you got rid of though would be close to no risk, the jeans etc I would have just washed out before wearing again. My view with asbestos is be alert not alarmed and follow the rules re either keeping, removing or disposing.

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## geoff70

Thanks John. I tell you i almost want to throw out the clothes in the hamper i put the jumper on. I am (apparently) that paranoid. Will i wash the clothes and the kids breath it in etc etc etc. All this stuff goes through my head. I did shake the jumper once when i took it off. Still had my mask on. I was so sure it was just concrete. Anyhow to be sure i ditched it that arvo. Being an expensive little exercise for me. Rather sheepish now....! In other words some of the stuff they say NOT to do, I did. More or less  _tapacrap removed_

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## joynz

What I don't understand, is why you had sent some of the asbestos sheet for testing but drilled it anyway just before the test came back?

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## geoff70

I drilled. Then took said bit for testing. Then. The news. All in the same day.

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## geoff70

OK, just to show what why I "assumed" the eaves were NOT asbestos, I took these photos today of a new <5 years probably house and my house. Firstly, I don't condone what I did and never assume anything, get it tested to be 100% sure.
But the joiners in all photos (maybe apart from the now 100% stand out like dogs nuts aluminum ones) look similar, especially on my extension done in 77. The rest of the house uses the old joiners. And what do you reckon about the adding silicon photo? Just to seal the gap up? 
Geoff

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