# Forum Home Renovation Television, Computers & Phones  Replacing Phone / ADSL Line

## jamieb

Hi There,
My house currently has 3 unused phone points in wrong rooms and existing wiring looks quite dodgy i would like to replace the wiring from the old first point directly to a single point in a new location with my modem on the end of it.
The current color on the lead in wire are
Pair 1: Blue/white
Pair 2: Red/Black
I am going to use cat 5E cable, join it where the old first point was (Which is where the lead in enters the building) using gel crimps
EG Pair 1 Blue/White of the lead in to cat(Blue/WhiteB)
     Pair 2 Red/black to cat Orange/White O 
Run the cable (Away from power sources) to the new location then terminate on an rj12 face plate
Pair 1 to the middle 2 pins (2-3)
Pair 2 to pins 1-4 
Where polarity does not matter.
Is the 2nd pair actually automtically used in the even the first pair is damaged? 
Does all this sound right?
Cheers

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## Bros

I had similar but when the NBN came I ripped it all out back to the first point and still have landline (for scammers) and use mobiles ourselves. I then ran Cat6 cables to other points for computer and Telstra TV. The wireless feature on the new modems are pretty good.

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## Marc

Looking back to Telstra copper wire works it is amazing what they got away with in the last 50 years. Dodgy is a mild description of their employees and contractors handywork. 
Last time I called them to rectify a wire that was dangling way too low over a driveway, they came (after 3 years of phone calls) and in order to tighten the wire up, a guy stood on top of his ute roof, and using a screwdriver made a torniket with the wire until it was tense enough and wrapped another piece of wire in the loop and around he wire, and voila! Job done in 5 minutes. 
Amazing  :Frown:

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## DavoSyd

> Hi There,
> My house currently has 3 unused phone points in wrong rooms and existing wiring looks quite dodgy i would like to replace the wiring from the old first point directly to a single point in a new location with my modem on the end of it.
> The current color on the lead in wire are
> Pair 1: Blue/white
> Pair 2: Red/Black
> I am going to use cat 5E cable, join it where the old first point was (Which is where the lead in enters the building) using gel crimps
> EG Pair 1 Blue/White of the lead in to cat(Blue/WhiteB)
>      Pair 2 Red/black to cat Orange/White O 
> Run the cable (Away from power sources) to the new location then terminate on an rj12 face plate
> ...

  surely you would have learnt this during your Cabling Licence section of your Electricians training?

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## Marc

And NBN contractors follow closely in their Telstra predecessors.
When they came to connect my house, they decided I was a nice guy so I'll get fibre to the house. So they proceeded to push the wire to the pit and then use the existing copper wire conduit to push the fibre in the same conduit.
Unfortunately but also very predictable, the conduit is dodgy and shonky and does not allow for a smooth addition of that nature. No worries, they have an answer for everything. Just measure where the cable is stuck, dig up the conduit that is about 4 inches from the surface, (thank you telstra), cut the contuid, pull the cable out and push it back in the other side, patch up the conduit with a piece of conduit split along and wrap it over the cut, throw some dirt over it and ... job done! 
Hang on you say, you can call NBN and complain? Sure, I did that too, complete with photos of their professional process.
Answer, very prompt must admit. The contractor went back to inspect the work and reported it was done satisfactory. 
Of course no one came back to inspect or they would have dug up the patch. 
In another house where the NBN cable comes from a dish on the roof, the contractor pushed the cable through the walls, through a hole in the plasterboard without any proper plate or data thingy, drilled through the back of a desk in order to connect to the router that was on that desk. The desk is an old one with a wooden shutter that allows for the desk to be closed to keep the kids away. Well now it is stuck open because he drilled through the open shutter and the cable is in the way. 
Complained about that too, and was assured (4 years ago) that it is on record and the contractor will come back to rectify. 
Still waiting with baited breath.

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## r3nov8or

We are FTTN, my retailer is Telstra, and I recently did self-install to go NBN. I tossed up redoing the cabling as it is original, but thought why bother if it's good enough... Today I'm getting 64Mbps down and 24Mbps up and that is common for outside of peak usage hours. So no new cabling here. Telstra Smart Modem 2 and wifi is pretty great too. I have two older devices wired and the plethora of other things are all wireless. (edit) and plugged in the cordless landline phone into the modem so I can still talk/listen to India and other exotic places

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## Bros

> Looking back to Telstra copper wire works it is amazing what they got away with in the last 50 years. Dodgy is a mild description of their employees and contractors handywork. 
> Last time I called them to rectify a wire that was dangling way too low over a driveway, they came (after 3 years of phone calls) and in order to tighten the wire up, a guy stood on top of his ute roof, and using a screwdriver made a torniket with the wire until it was tense enough and wrapped another piece of wire in the loop and around he wire, and voila! Job done in 5 minutes. 
> Amazing

   The proof of the pudding is in the eating so no matter how bad you think it is it has been functioning satisfactorily for decades

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## Bros

> When they came to connect my house, they decided I was a nice guy so I'll get fibre to the house.

   Did they have a white cane and a dog?

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## UseByDate

> Did they have a white cane and a dog?

    :Rofl5:

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## droog

> dig up the conduit that is about 4 inches from the surface,

  You got the good install !
Round here the main cable in the street is less than 6 inches under the grass and the cable into our house is less than 2 inches under the grass. No conduit just the cable.

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## craka

> You got the good install !
> Round here the main cable in the street is less than 6 inches under the grass and the cable into our house is less than 2 inches under the grass. No conduit just the cable.

  Is it an old cable?      A lot of old Telecom cables where direct buried from lead in pit to dwelling

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## craka

> surely you would have learnt this during your Cabling Licence section of your Electricians training?

  Don't need to be  a sparky, but  supposed to be a licenced cabler from the first socket to anything further in house.  Need to be carrier authorised from first socket back toward street.

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## rebuildr86

> You got the good install !
> Round here the main cable in the street is less than 6 inches under the grass and the cable into our house is less than 2 inches under the grass. No conduit just the cable.

    Yeh the lead in fibre is meant to be HDPE sheath direct burial, conduit is just a luxury. Marcs job exceeds specifications.

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## Marc

> Yeh the lead in fibre is meant to be HDPE sheath direct burial, conduit is just a luxury. Marcs job exceeds specifications.

  I am afraid you are mistaken. When I spoke to the NBN mob, they confirmed that the cable in conduit was supposed to be 300 minimum in the ground.

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## craka

> I am afraid you are mistaken. When I spoke to the NBN mob, they confirmed that the cable in conduit was supposed to be 300 minimum in the ground.

  Yes customer side suppose to be minimum of 450mm depth under driveway or footpaths and a minimum of 300mm under where anywhere else , ie lawns etc.  Unless the ground is rock, shale etc, where it cane be chased in.

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## Marc

My point is that the NBN just like Telstra in the past, are a law on their own and do whatever they want and get away with it.

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## craka

> My point is that the NBN just like Telstra in the past, are a law on their own and do whatever they want and get away with it.

  Well no there is a standard, and it is to be built to that.    Problem is massive rollout and not enough people to check on the delivery partners and contractors. You'd be suprise some of the small things workers get pulled up for.  
The problem with Telstra in the past, is every since it went private owned, nothing has been maintained/refreshed on the customer side network, as they sore not profibility in it.  You know the mantra cut cost to provide for the share holder.   Telecom back in the day ie when government owned I believe were much more stringent in doing things to a standard.

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## DavoSyd

> Don't need to be  a sparky,

   :Wink:  but most sparkies are licenced cablers?

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## craka

> but most sparkies are licenced cablers?

  No not necessarily.

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## DavoSyd

> No not necessarily.

  so most electricians don't have their cabling licence in your experience? that's contrary to my experience. but that's life, isn't it... multifarious.

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## craka

> so most electricians don't have their cabling licence in your experience? that's contrary to my experience. but that's life, isn't it... multifarious.

  Depends on whether they've sat and done the course for open cabler licence or not.    
Depends on what type of sparkies, or who they work for.  If the company does both electrical and comms well most probably.  If the sparkies mainly do industrial, or mech services etc probably not.  
And yes life is quite varied.

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## DavoSyd

then there's this!  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...trees/11297076 
crikey!

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## Marc

On our street we had telstra copper wiring on the ground for years, one pole completely rotten hanging from the wiring in the next section.  Telstra sent a technician to fix the problem after ... 3 years of phone calls from all the neighbours.

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## Bedford

> but most sparkies are licenced cablers?

    

> then there's this!  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...trees/11297076 
> crikey!

  Looks like you answered your own question...............

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## DavoSyd

> Looks like you answered your own question...............

  i know huh!  
there's not a licenced *anything* in that video................................

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## DavoSyd

even this abomination  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-...ntinue/5450418

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## DavoSyd

err, yeah, she'll be right, no one will notice it at all:  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...ow-pay/8626012

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## r3nov8or

> i know huh!  
> there's not a licenced *anything* in that video................................

  The arborist?

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## craka

> The arborist?

   :Rofl:  :Clap:

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## jamieb

Well this thread got very quickly off topic;
i am confident that my methods to splice and terminate the cable are correct, 
But i am still curious should both pairs or wires be hooked up? in my current house only 1 pair (blue/white) is hooked up..
I understand only 1 pair is needed but if both pair is hooked up and the primary pair has an issue will it automatically use the secondary pair?

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## DavoSyd

> Well this thread got very quickly off topic;
> i am confident that my methods to splice and terminate the cable are correct, 
> But i am still curious should both pairs or wires be hooked up? in my current house only 1 pair (blue/white) is hooked up..
> I understand only 1 pair is needed but if both pair is hooked up and the primary pair has an issue will it automatically use the secondary pair?

  by using two pairs, the signals can be inverted and you can double the bandwidth... /s

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## SilentButDeadly

Nope you only need one pair. And there's no point adding in the other pair as it will never do anything...even if the original pair fails.

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## craka

Traditionally only one pair will be used as an active phone line or carry a DSL signal, so using both pairs will not be any advantage to you. 
Not sure what area you are in or what type of NBN service you may have or may be getting, but if the NBN rollout if FTTC in your area, they use the other pair to back feed power from customer to a DPU in the street.

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## Ozcar

> ... if FTTC in your area, they use the other pair to back feed power from customer to a DPU in the street.

  Are you sure about that? 
 We're in a FTTN area, and I have not even seen a reverse power unit, but I would not have thought that they would make them depend on availability of "spare" pairs.  
From what I could turn up, the units comply with this:    https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts...48v020101p.pdf  
Which says that the power is supplied over the same copper pairs as the xDSL signal.

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## DavoSyd

> Are you sure about that?

  the NBN website is a wealth of information:  https://www.nbnco.com.au/residential...explained-fttc 
no mention of a second pair there....

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## Whitey66

My FTTC is only running on one pair, and works very well.

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## Bros

> My FTTC is only running on one pair, and works very well.

   Same here.

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## craka

Yeah apologies, I think you guys are right,  I only worked fibre side of them, and it's been a while since.  Now I think about it I think you are right there was only 1 pair per outlet on the copper side.

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