# Forum More Stuff Go to Whoa!  Advice on choosing a builder?

## drewy

Hi all. Not sure whether this is where I should be posting but hope it is ok.I've got a block which I can subdivide and build at the back in NUNAWADING. I do not want to be an owner builder.  
1) Do big builders eg. Metricon, NAtional Builders Group build small houses on subdivided properties or do I have to find a private builder?
2) Does anyone know of good (reasonable cost for reasonable quality) private builders in Outer Eastern of Melbourne region?
3) IS it possible for me to engage a private builder to build frame,roof and plaster. Then get my own tradespeople to do all the internal work eg. electrical, tiling, kitchen etc? As I assume this would be cheaper? 
Thanks in advance.

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## Oldsaltoz

I have over the years found the small builder who only builds one house at a time and is on site every day working and supervising others, manages to get a much better finish, any minor changes are sorted without major costs. If one of the 'trades is taking short cuts they are removed or made to rework the area/s of concern. 
Getting a single builder to do only part of the construction may be problematic if you do not go the owner builder rout. 
Major builders employ Trades and Supervisors so the end product may vary due the Supervisors standards and eperiance plus any restraints placed on them by the major builder. 
As an owner builder you can hire and supervise trades as required and do a lot of the work yourself. 
Hope this helps. 
Good luck.  :Smilie:

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## Bloss

For a start get the Allan Staines book that suits what you are after - see here: http://www.peachinstitute.com/books.html it will help in the process even if you do nothing yourself. 
Owner builder is tough hard and frustrating work - can be immensely satisfying, but not for everyone so if you feel you don't want that you are probably right. They rarely save money (except by not valuing their own time or if they do at a discounted rate), but often get a better result. assuming that OB is cheaper is usually wrong unless you are in trade with good contacts. 
Building and renovating require significant project management skills - that few people possess even in the game. That's a big reason why many tradies do not run their own business - or try then go back to being an employee, because it is hard work and not work you get paid for mostly. All the activities on and off site have to happen in sequence and on time or you get massive delays that tend to escalate. Time is money - and usually yours when an OB. 
Start by asking around friends and family - personal recommendations are still the best. Get a few and ask to see their work and for the builder to arrange for you to talk to the owners who are now living in that house. Phone contact is often enough to start with and then you can see how you 'feel'. 
You could use the Master Builder's Association - they can have members who are not the best as membership is not cheap so small builders might not see value, but they also have various safeguards too. 
When you find someone do not simply sign their standard contract - you are spending probably the biggest amount you ever will in your life - so get your own legal advice, especially about the process in the case of things going wrong (that's the only time you'll need the contract!). Don't be extreme, but you are the customer, it's your money and you are entitled to the protection of the law. 
It can be worth taking on a a supervising architect, but that can add 10=15% and more to the price! It is good practice where private certifiers  are used for you to hire the certifier and do all dealings with them. Builder often will have regulars they use - whose interests (regardless of their legal obligations) will align with who they have the contract with (you pay even if the builder arranges - so you should arrange and manage that process!). 
Google the names of those you are thinking of using and you will soon see if there are negative posts on forums etc (and positive for that matter though happy customers stay quiet unhappy ones speak loudly). That's a start anyway.

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## HandyDaddy

> 1) Do big builders eg. Metricon, NAtional Builders Group build small houses on subdivided properties or do I have to find a private builder?

  Yes I belive they will. I spoke with Porter Davis about a year ago and they said that it was no problem for them to build on my own block of land away from their main developments. If your happy with an off the shelf design, I believe its actually cheaper than engaging a private builder.   

> 3) IS it possible for me to engage a private builder to build frame,roof and plaster. Then get my own tradespeople to do all the internal work eg. electrical, tiling, kitchen etc? As I assume this would be cheaper?

  It is possible to engage a private builder to 'build to lockup'. This is essentially as you have said building the slab/subfloor, frame, roofing, windows and doors etc to provide a weather tight shell of a house. You can then do the inside and finishing. However, if you intend to manage tradies yourself, you need to know a little bit about building. For example, in you quote above you mentioned about using a builder to do the 'frame, roof and plaster' then you would 'get your own tradespeople to do all the internal work eg. electrical'. You need to know that part of the the electrical work needs to be done before plastering and then the remainder of the electrical work after the plastering is complete. This will also apply to plumbing. 
Hope this helps a little

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## Cheltenham3192

> 1) Do big builders eg. Metricon, NAtional Builders Group build small houses on subdivided properties or do I have to find a private builder?

  Drewy, you may have similar problems to us.  Our block is an unusual shape and we found that when looking at project homes from the major builders, few designs that we liked would fit sensibly on it (in our case because its wedge shape gave us a narrow frontage).  The standard homes from the major builders are available in a range of sizes, but changes can come at a hefty price.  It might be difficult to find a design you like that fits on a sub-divided house block. 
We received the names of several builders from friends, and from our draftsperson.  After discussing the project with five builders we sent them documentation to only have two respond with actual quotes. 
This might have been influenced by our requirements for referees and references with the quote, plus copies of insurances, and a weekly penalty for late completion.  I didn't want drawn out negotiations and to be spoon fed information, so I asked for everything at once.   
One of the responding builders declined to provide the extra information because 'it wasn't the normal practice to do so' until later in the negotiations.  That didn't impress me at all.  The other builder complied with everything, quickly, and was 10% cheaper, and after some final negotiations over scope and price he is building our extension.   
We spoke to several of his referees and looked up his projects on Nearmap.com (which has very recent photos and enables you to compare images so you can see the rate of construction if it is recent) as well as Streetview images from Google Maps. 
We found the builder that complied with our requests, and that we are using, with an Internet search for local builders. We've no regrets so far. 
The comments from HandyDaddy are very true too.  A lot of the preparation work for electrical (telephone, Internet, cable-TV, and electrics) and plumbing (water, gas) is done around the framing stage (ie before plastering).  Modern, 5-star, construction and materials can make it very difficult/expensive to do later.  You'd need a builder prepared to let your trades on site to do this, and they'd need to work well together because we've found that the builder has needed to make minor modifications to the frame to accommodate the plumbing and electrical.  You may well incur variations to your price for this if it isn't part of the builders pricing. 
Hope this helps.

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