# Forum Home Renovation Paving  Reconstituted Stone Paving Project for long weekend -- HELP

## latinkgb

Hello everyone, need your input with our reconstituted stone pavers project over the long weekend. 
We want to paved our patio aprox 40 sqm (4 width x 9 lenght m), we bought reconstituted stone pavers 500x500x400mm, It will be pave against the wall of the house and the water fall will go towards the raised planter box/bench 60(w)x60(h) mm (next project  after the paving). 
This is what i will be doing 
Excavate the area approx 150mm -done and the soil is clay
Put in road base approx 100 mm or road base mixed cement (how)?? Then compact it
Level it 
Lay in pavers using mortar or using beding sand?
Finised off with putting some mortar or sand in between the joints of the pavers. 
The fall will be 1 cm every 1 m so the total fall will be 4 cm towards the raised planter  box. Should I use ag pipe with sock in between the pavers and raised planter box as drainage (how) or should i use grate (it looks ugly though).   
Could you please tell me if thats ok (steps or procedure) or if I missed anything else  
I appreciate your valuable input and help on this thanks in advance

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## ozwinner

> Hello everyone, need your input with our reconstituted stone pavers project over the long weekend. 
> We want to paved our patio aprox 40 sqm (4 width x 9 lenght m), we bought reconstituted stone pavers 500x500x400mm, It will be pave against the wall of the house and the water fall will go towards the raised planter box/bench 60(w)x60(h) mm (next project  after the paving). 
> This is what i will be doing 
> Excavate the area approx 150mm -done and the soil is clay  *Very good start, a good foundation is the key to any construction.*  
> Put in road base approx 100 mm or road base mixed cement (how)?? Then compact it
> Level it   *Road base with some cement, mix it with a rake then compact, the moisture in the road base is enough to set the cement.* 
> Lay in pavers using mortar or using beding sand?  *Mortar blobs are far better, 5 of them.* 
> Finised off with putting some mortar or sand in between the joints of the pavers.  *All depends on how you want the finished pavers to look, if you are going for the joint between then yes, if the pavers are close with no joint, then I wouldnt bother.* 
> The fall will be 1 cm every 1 m so the total fall will be 4 cm towards the raised planter  box. Should I use ag pipe with sock in between the pavers and raised planter box as drainage (how) or should i use grate (it looks ugly though).   *I like the look and functionality of the black plastic strip grates.*  
> ...

  
Al  :Smilie:

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## Bleedin Thumb

*Mortar blobs are far better, 5 of them*    :Confused:   :Confused:   :Confused:  *Al are you suggesting that you lay each paver on 5 blobs of mortar?*

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## ozwinner

Its only for foot traffic so, yes. 
By blobs I mean 100mm sized or larger. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## Bleedin Thumb

No way Al, 40 sq.m!!! it would look like shyte unless latinkgb was a professional tiler.  
I would suggest screeding off paving sand to get your falls and laying the pavers over that. Sweep dry Sydney sand into the joints

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## ozwinner

> No way Al, 40 sq.m!!! it would look like shyte unless latinkgb was a professional tiler.

  If the base is done correctly then laying the pavers is easy, all you do is follow the base plus 50mm or so. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## Bleedin Thumb

That means : 
1. You have to get your subgrade (road-base) perfect which is pretty hard to do as you can't screed road-base and you have to wet it down then run a compactor over it so the best you could get is +/- 25mm to start with. 
2. The person laying the pavers has got the skill of someone like yourself that can _SEE_ levels like its second nature and can make fine adjustments to keep them level. 
I can lay pavers in my sleep, I wouldn't be suprised if I haven't layed over 60K sq.m but I'm crap at tileing the way you describe even when I have a blind slab that is perfect. 
So I'm not saying you're wrong - its just whats easiest for a novice. 
Well actually I am saying your wrong :Tongue:   :Biggrin:

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## johnc

I like Al's way, surely a rubber mallet and a straight edge remove the risk, and the method sees the pavers bed down well. However I have to date opted for washed sand with a bit of cement mixed in which seems to work OK.   
John.

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## ozwinner

> That means : 
> 1. You have to get your subgrade (road-base) perfect which is pretty hard to do as you can't screed road-base and you have to wet it down then run a compactor over it so the best you could get is +/- 25mm to start with. 
> 2. The person laying the pavers has got the skill of someone like yourself that can _SEE_ levels like its second nature and can make fine adjustments to keep them level. 
> I can lay pavers in my sleep, I wouldn't be suprised if I haven't layed over 60K sq.m but I'm crap at tileing the way you describe even when I have a blind slab that is perfect. 
> So I'm not saying you're wrong - its just whats easiest for a novice. 
> Well actually I am saying your wrong

  Ok, point taken.  :Redface:  
I dont like doing paving as its too far down.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
Al  :Wink:

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## Bleedin Thumb

Funny how brickies complain about doing walls that are too low to. 
Well actually its not funny cause I know how bad brick laying is on the back. :Frown:   
But for some reason I find laying pavers good for the back - never had a problem with mine until I had kids - lifting babies into cars etc. 
Anyway I'm too old for that sort of caper now, I'd rather pay young blokes to do it for me......... except you watch them fiddle about and you end up showing them how its done,IE you end up doing it yourself with the labourers standing around watching you!

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## latinkgb

> Al

  *Guys thank you all for your input and yes im very novice with this paving thing.*  
I understand that doing wet paving is harder than using paving sand however my only concern is to have *stable paving* which i dont have to touch again ever!!!   *So you mean i can just mix cement with roadbase and i dont have to wet it???*  *Just leave it like that then compact it??*  *Also can you tell me the ratio of cement with road base, im thinking to have 5 to 6 tons of road base to be deliver.*  *So if i used paving sand then compact it before laying pavers and used sydney sand (or mixed with cement) for joints wont they wobble later on, i mean in the future?*   *Also what about the weeds and ants?? isnt thats a problem aswell if you lay the paving on sand?* 
If they wont then thats good coz thats way easiser than wet paving man 
and yeah i wont forget the BEER!!! I'll have my _Peroni _   *Again Guys thanks for all of your input, I will post before and after photos later*

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## latinkgb

Also does it matter if the paving material is recontituted stone, concrete or clay paver?? I just thought that reconstituted stones are more pourous than others thats why they needed to be put on wet paving.

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## bennylaird

Just a note don't try to carry to many at once, I spent a few weeks in pain because I didn't. Tried to carry to pavers each hand just gripping them with my fingers. Tore a muscle in my shoulder.

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## ozwinner

> *Guys thank you all for your input and yes im very novice with this paving thing.*  
> I understand that doing wet paving is harder than using paving sand however my only concern is to have *stable paving* which i dont have to touch again ever!!!   I have used both methods, mortar and sand, the mortar is far superior, sand based paving tends to move around and sink after a while.  *So you mean i can just mix cement with roadbase and i dont have to wet it???*  *Just leave it like that then compact it??* Yes *Also can you tell me the ratio of cement with road base, im thinking to have 5 to 6 tons of road base to be deliver. * You wont need much cement, the compacted road base is almost enough by itself.
> If you have to barrow it into place just sprinkle some cement on top of each barrow of base, when you tip it it will almost be mixed enough   *So if i used paving sand then compact it before laying pavers and used sydney sand (or mixed with cement) for joints wont they wobble later on, i mean in the future?*   *Also what about the weeds and ants?? isnt thats a problem aswell if you lay the paving on sand?* 
> If they wont then thats good coz thats way easiser than wet paving man  If you get the base right the pavers should almost lay themselves whether dry or wet. 
> and yeah i wont forget the BEER!!! I'll have my _Peroni _   *Again Guys thanks for all of your input, I will post before and after photos later*

  Al  :Smilie:

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## ozwinner

> Also does it matter if the paving material is recontituted stone, concrete or clay paver?? I just thought that reconstituted stones are more pourous than others thats why they needed to be put on wet paving.

  
I think there are all basically the same in the way you would lay them, clay pavers take a little bit more work as the dont suck up the moisture as quickly as the other types do when wet laying them.. 
Al  :Smilie:

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## Bleedin Thumb

> *Guys thank you all for your input and yes im very novice with this paving thing.*  
> I understand that doing wet paving is harder than using paving sand however my only concern is to have *stable paving* which i dont have to touch again ever!!!  The stability of your paving is ultimately determined by your sub-grade and also your sub-base. The only time I would use wet mortar is when laying individual paving stones, stair treads or crazy paving of differing thicknesses. You can however use a moist tiling mix but IMO it's not necessary on roadbase. *So you mean i can just mix cement with roadbase and i dont have to wet it???*  *Just leave it like that then compact it??*  No. you have to thoroughly wet your roadbase down to achieve adequate compaction - you know when you have the right amount of water on it as the compactor vibrates up a slight bit of surface water - almost jelly consistency - sorry hard to describe. Dry roadbase doesn't compact very well.  *Also can you tell me the ratio of cement with road base, im thinking to have 5 to 6 tons of road base to be deliver.* If you use recycled roadbase - equal to DGB 20 from concrete recyclers or recycled resources you dont need cement as it goes off to a concrete like consistency - once again use sufficient water. If you are adamant about cement stabilized road base order it from the yard premixed. Road base is very heavy and you dont want to be mixing it by hand. My guess would be 1 bag per tonne would be heaps. *So if i used paving sand then compact it before laying pavers and used sydney sand (or mixed with cement) for joints wont they wobble later on, i mean in the future?*  Screed your bedding sand off _perfectly_ smooth. I use rails bedded into the sand to get my levels, but describing the process would be too long winded. Ask your local nurseryman, paving supplier or building supplier they probably have a brochure. I wouldn't use cement in your joints with the reconstituted stone (too likely to get a stain and you don't want to be putting acid on the pavers later on (another reason not to use mortar) there are specialty products for this.  Ring Tom Brockman from Paving Plus 9484 1855 *Also what about the weeds and ants?? isnt thats a problem aswell if you lay the paving on sand?* Can be. If you already have a problem mix cement into your paving sand 2 bags /tonne. Do that yourself - roughly level your sand por cement powder over and turn it in with a square mouth shovel until the colour is uniform grey
> If they wont then thats good coz thats way easiser than wet paving man 
> and yeah i wont forget the BEER!!! I'll have my _Peroni _   *Again Guys thanks for all of your input, I will post before and after photos later*

  
Al and myself seem to have opposing view on how to lay pavers- I'd hate to find out that I've been doing it wrong for the last 24 years. :Eek:   :Tongue:   :Biggrin:

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## ozwinner

> Al and myself seem to have opposing view on how to lay pavers- I'd hate to find out that I've been doing it wrong for the last 24 years.

  
Arrhh. :Sneaktongue:  life goes on.. :Biggrin:  
Al  :Wink 1:

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## journeyman Mick

While I've got no doubt that Al's had good results with his method the general practice that I've seen is to lay the paver without mortar. I've seen acres of the stuff laid like this at resorts. It's also laid like this for heavy use applications like aircraft runways, container terminals and the like. My local coucil recently redid our main street's footpath paving. They removed all the old paving, dug down and placed a slab. Over this they placed and compacted sand and then laid the pavers over this. This was to minimise problems with tree roots as we have quite a number of strangler figs growing in the main street.  
If you were really worried about ants etc this is the way I would go as it would be far easier to get all your levels and falls right. 
Not saying Al is wrong, he's just not as right as Bleeding Thumb or myself. :Biggrin:   :Sneaktongue:   :Wink 1:   
Mick

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## ozwinner

Its them bloody Northerners thats what it is... 
Al  :Sneaktongue:  :Wink 1:  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Bleedin Thumb

Yep I failed to mention my method is described as the Northern Paving Method whilst Al's is best described as _ _ _ _.       
NB An excellent example of self moderation - I have refrained from using any derogatory language and not resorted to personal attack. :Tongue:   :Biggrin:

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## latinkgb

I must admit you both did confused me but i think i already have it all wrap up; 
Excavate to 150mm - done
Put in road base mixed with cement then compact it
Put in paving sand, level it then compact it
lay in pavers  
it sounds easy but ill see how i go on the weekends Good luck on me hahahaha 
thanks guys for all your tips!! :Biggrin:

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## TARLOX

you don't need to put cement in the road base

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