# Forum Home Renovation Stairs, Steps and Ramps  Removing a solid concrete stair case to create useable space?!

## howardc

Hey everyone, 
I'm thinking about removing the below staircase from my currently useless 2nd courtyard. The staircase is huge when you compare it to the whole courtyard and I'd love to make it a useable space. Maybe throw some decking down, put up a hammock and put the plants that cover walls up on lattice (just a quick idea) 
Anyway what would be the best way of removing the stairs and what are some ideas of things that I can put in place of it? A ladder, smaller stairs?  
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Thanks very much for your ideas!!!!

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## Compleat Amateu

It is a bit hard to tell how this was built, but but I doubt it is solid concrete - why would a builder waste that much expensive concrete - but rather a brick structure, perhaps with concrete treads bricked over, or perhaps full of fill (bit less likely).  Alternatively, it may be that the stairs are reinforced concrete (poured over sloped formwork), then the brick is just infill.  I have also seen prefabricated concrete steps (an inverted L section, forming the riser and tread) put into place and tiled over.  Perhaps these are a variation. 
In any case you have to work out whether the staircase is engaged into the wall behind it, in which case the problem is rather larger than you currently think.  Can you see behind that wall, under the top floor?  You have to work out that one somehow, pulling the wall down probably isn't your preference. 
Finally, I'd re-do it in timber, not an easy job for an amateur.  And you won't "save much space" as the run of the stairs will have to be approximately the same as is currently there. 
So step 1 is to work out whether you have engaged stairs, and how they have been built. 
Good luck!

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## howardc

It is a seperate structure to the wall as there is a small gap behind and down the side of the stairs. Not to sure how to tell what stracture it is...it's incredibly solid nonetheless!  
The stairs are very very rarely rarely used, I'd say about once a month or even less. I am tempted to put in a small ladder of some sort? It would probably break plenty of rules and regulations though!?  :Rolleyes:

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## Dr Freud

In terms of construction, I'd bet they built a brick box, filled it with sand, then bricked the steps on top.  Main reason for this is that's how I'd build it.  Quick, cheap, easy and will last hundreds of years for human traffic. 
Before removal of steps, clearly tape/rope/mark doorway to stop some drunk mates falling off the ledge (I have a few too, trust me, they will find a way).  
In terms of removal, lump hammer and bolster will take it apart very easily.  Start at a top corner and work your way down.  Easy to carry bricks out too.  I'd get bored after about ten minutes though, and start swinging the big sledgy.  :Tongue:   Then after repairing the door, window and holes in the walls, I'd get to work on building the new steps.  :Biggrin:  
Hard to get an idea of distance, but I would be able to fit steps running directly down from door to behind that white wall.  A landing near the bottom against the rear of that white wall, then a step or two finishing in front of the window.  I'd also put a security screen on the bottom window pane to match the top, otherwise those drunken yobbos will kick a hole in it.  Timber strut steps, visually minimalist to create space, then decorate to taste.  :2thumbsup:  
(P.S. No idea if this is council compliant, but I reckon it would work).

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## jago

Demolition has been taken care of IMO I would go some prefabricated steel stringers or single, with hard wood treads no backs (risers) it really depends on your budget. Check out places like Scott Metals for indication of price.

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## Compleat Amateu

If the demo part is solved - and proceed carefully just in case - then the question becomes what in place? 
Don't think about a ladderor super-steep stairs, you WILL breach every ordinance known to man and probably void your insurance if someone fell down them, as is bound to happen.  Not to mention replacing them at sale time, or beig responsible for an injury to a friend - or worse, an enemy! 
Look at Scotts metals website, I've used them and they are pretty easy and cheap for stairs.  Also all the necessary calculations are there to work out what you need that complies. 
Good luck!

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## howardc

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll start hammering away (carefully) at them next weekend I think. Still not sure what to put in place. I'll have a look at scotts metals and come back with some ideas  :Smilie:  
THanks again!

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## Smithers

from looking at the photos, if you are going to make the new stairs compliant with BCA regs, you won't be able to change these stairs much. You will still have to have a landing at the top of the stairs due to the door. As mentioned above you may be able to change direction of stairs using winders. Good luck. What the coucil can't see they don't know!

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