# Forum Home Renovation Asbestos  Asbestos concerns

## newby1973

Hi, not sure if I am posting in the right area but here goes:
We have a vey good friend who has no concern whatsoever about asbestos. He plans on installing two split system air conditioners on fibro (asbestos) walls with no precautions. He prefers to think the dust will just blow out the window.
I am very concerned as my husband is his best mate and will be visiting his house in the future. We also have a four year old son who I won't let go there, but I am very worried that everything in the rooms where he is installing the air cons will be contaminated.
He plans to drill, cut into the wall without wetting dowm, probably no masks or coveralls (but that is his choice), I am concerned about the dust that will remain in the room, on furniture, carpet, curtains etc after the event.
I also think he will drill, install and then turn the air con units on, which in my mind will circulate the fibres around the room forever more as they wouldn't have chance to settle yet.
I know I am over the top when it comes to these things, and I am paranoid about it, I feel like I never want him to come to our house again in case he has asbestos fibres on his clothes, shoes, or he might bring something over that is contaminated.
I have printed out safety info for him but he says he doesn't 'worry' about things like that, nor does his other friend who will be helping with the install, appparently he does it all the time in fibro walls and doesn't care. 
This sort of attitude astounds me and I am in a bit of a panic over it, and things are not good at home due to my over the top fear about it.
Some sound advice about the level of risk to my husband by visiting in future and also cross contamination to my house would be greatly appreciated. 
Also, more of a technical question re an air conditioner, once installed on a fibro wall, how likely is it that fibres will get inside the air conditioner from the damaged wall please?  The other reason I ask this is because I am looking at schools to send my son next year and some have computer rooms with air conditioners on asbestos walls (noted on school asbestos register), which I don't like the sound of but is it ok?

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## Bloss

The friend is really really dumb (or maybe dumb _and_ older than 50 in which case he is unlikely to live long enough to die form asbestos disease anyway even if he caught it). It si easy to take precautions and really stupid not to. 
The risk is mainly when the cutting is being done and dust is created and blown around - so breathed in while it is still in the air. Oncew the AC is in place then there is virtually no risk as the cement sheet embeds asbestos and keeps it stable. But if the clean up afterward is not done then some small amounts might sit around an be blown about by the AC. 
The risk is very low, but the way to make it zero is so easy it is as I said really stupid not to take the precautions (read the links under the RED headings on this sub-forum) such as wetting down and using masks goggles etc and not using tools which create dust. 
But the risk to you in future is way, way less than driving or walking to make the visit . . . it's just that by your hubbie's mate being sensible instead of macho it could be zero. :Frown:

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## cjwaft

Not sure if this will help you but recently I was in touch with a 36 year old with a new baby who was diagnosed with mesothelioma. Drs were shocked because of her age but her risk was a father who worked in the building trade while she was little. It seems that it brough fibres into their home and 30 years on, mesothelioma was the result.  
I dont doubt the fibres can travel. I dont doubt they cross contaminate.  
Your husband's mate is a grade A moron but that doesn't give him the right to take risks with the public.

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## newby1973

> Not sure if this will help you but recently I was in touch with a 36 year old with a new baby who was diagnosed with mesothelioma. Drs were shocked because of her age but her risk was a father who worked in the building trade while she was little. It seems that it brough fibres into their home and 30 years on, mesothelioma was the result.  
> I dont doubt the fibres can travel. I dont doubt they cross contaminate.  
> Your husband's mate is a grade A moron but that doesn't give him the right to take risks with the public.

  Thanks to both of you and that is awful about the 36 year old.  I imagine though that the amount of fibres would have been cumulative over some years perhaps? 
I will be hounding this friend of ours again to do it safely, like Bloss said it is easy to take the precautions, but it seems this sort of ignorance is rife.  Places like Rockhampton where almost every home has asbestos in it makes me think it is floating around everywhere from DIYers.  Just about everyone I talk to has a "she'll be right attitude" which I find really frustrating particularly when the health of the people around them is at risk. 
The friend is early 40s but has very young nephews that will be visiting  the rooms afterwards. 
Would I be right to assume that after some time has passed, say for example a year, that all remaining fibres that may have been left behind could be assumed to be gone?  Or is it the case that if they do land on soft furnishings they could be stuck there forever and anyone who sits on the chairs could end of with fibres on their clothes? 
I know that is hard to say as it would depend on how much is released in the first place but just wondered if you have an idea.  I also find it interesting when I look up how to drill or cut into asbestos walls I generally can't find any advice on whether or not the room should be empty of furnishings but I guess the idea that if it is wet down or shaving foam is used then there will be little of no release.  Is it ok to do drilling with furniture in the room, including a bed and lounge suite provided precautions are taken?  
FYI - I had a plumber do some work in our asbestos toilet wall which required him to drill and I gave him PVA glue to put on the wall where he was to drill but he just didn't use it.  My son was only six months old at the time in the next room.  It is very disappointing when you ask someone to take precautions but they ignore your request.  I guess he didn't want to get glue on his drill which I can understand now I know more about it I should have given him a can of shaving cream instead but still there is no guarantee he would have used it.  :No:

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## johnc

The biggest risk is at the time of cutting, however the fibres will settle on thinks like carpet, furniture and curtains and a good shake or thump will disturb it. There is a rising incidence in asbestosis in DIY'ers for exactly this reason. What he is proposing to do is stupid given all the warnings, it remains a lower end risk in terms of incidents of the disease however the risk of dying a slow miserable death is 100% if you end up with it.

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## Bloss

> The biggest risk is at the time of cutting, however the fibres will settle on thinks like carpet, furniture and curtains and a good shake or thump will disturb it. There is a rising incidence in asbestosis in DIY'ers for exactly this reason. What he is proposing to do is stupid given all the warnings, it remains a lower end risk in terms of incidents of the disease however the risk of dying a slow miserable death is 100% if you end up with it.

  The 36 year old woman was more than likely exposed to very high levels of asbestos fibres - not just a few, but regular and perhaps even directly on worksites her father was on. The claimed rising incidence amongst DIYers as the type of exposure is as a proportion of incidences of all asbestos related diseases and probably comes from this WA study: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2011/...os-during-home. It is because the DIYers in the study were doing exactly the same type of work and getting the same sorts of exposures as in workplaces (using machine tools and no safety gear - so breathing large amounts of dust and so asbestos fibres) - it was not from over dust in carpets etc. 
It is a quite technical document and requires a good understanding of statistics - but importantly that study is talking about people in their late 60s (av. 66 at time of 1st diagnosis) whose exposure was on average 33 years prior to that ie: in the late 70s and the 80s when asbestos was still not banned and when knowledge and awareness was very poor compared to the last 20 years or so.  The study does not indicate any overall real increases in rates of asbestos related diseases amongst DIYers - in fact it also shows that for a higher proportion still than DIYers (around 10%) there is no known exposure at all. As has been predicted though there will be continued overall rises in these diseases all the way through until around 2035-40 (around 30-40 years after total bans in Australia) and then reductions after that - due to the latency period of around 30-40 years between diagnosis and exposure.  
It is the proportion of those being discovered that will be more DIYers - not an over all increase in total DIyers getting asbestos related diseases since that exposure period. The reason why the proportion changes is simple - as years past the types of exposures changed because the mines closed down, the workplace exposures were gradually reduced and eventually it was the DIY arena where it takes broad education and personal responsibility to implement safety.  But as has been said whatever risk there is to us today can be reduced to pretty much zero with easy and effective precautions which only the intensely stupid and thoughtless would not take those easy safety measures - if not for themselves then for those around them.

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## johnc

I don't particularly want to get into a discussion on the WA report as it distracts from the post and while I agree with the thrust of what Bloss has written the report is rather clear that the incidence of disease in the home renovator category is increasing and is expected to increase over time. However incidence and all the rest does show that the number of householders who contract asbestosis is a small number and I would repeat what Bloss said that providing we take adequate precautions there is very low probably of being effected.

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## PhilT2

Re your question about the school. I did a fair bit of work for EdQld quite some time ago. Some schools are good at making tradies working on the premises view and sign the Asbestos Register. Others I had to tell them where to find it. But few teachers know enough to be able to tell whether the job is being done correctly. All you can do is make the school aware of your concerns and get them to impress on tradies that people will be checking that the proper procedures have been followed.

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## intertd6

The fellow doing the proposed work is pretty typical of that generation...... Ignorant! 
If it were myself I would not let any of my family near the place afterwards, life's to short to be hanging around with idiots who could make it even shorter.
as far as low risk it seems to be a common problem that some to confuse the incidence of asbestos illness with the risk associated with the toxic material, if your affected by an asbestos related illness it will more than likely kill you & not long after being diagnosed with the illness, that makes it a high risk toxic material, with a low incidence rate.
regards inter

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## Bloss

> The fellow doing the proposed work is pretty typical of that generation...... Ignorant! 
> regards inter

  mmm - a brave call to label a whole generation (and how do we know for sure which one it is? And how do we define 'generation' - 10 years younger/older than self? 20 years? 30-years?). This individual might not be ignorant at all, simply foolhardy in the face of the facts. My experience is that ignorance is totally unrelated to age and often unrelated to level of education too . . . likewise foolhardiness . . .   :Redface:

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## intertd6

I should know about that generation , I am one of them & was just as ignorant as the worst of them too, I have had to councel  more of my generation on my sites than the younger ones for blatantly endangering themselves & others when they were engaged in seemingly innocuous activities. The brighter ones picked up the message in one go.
regards inter

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## ringtail

Newby, which suburb is your husbands mate in ?

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