# Forum Home Renovation Structural Renovation  MGP vs F grade timber

## atregent

The plans I have for my workshop specify F7 pine for the all the framing, which I'm having a bit of trouble finding. 
I asked the building surveyor and he said I could substitute MGP12, which is also not so easy to come by, MGP10 seems to be the most readily available. 
I've done a lot of looking around on the internet and most of what I've found places F8 in between MPG10 and 12, with no mention of F7. One document I found from the HIA has a table that places F7 just below MGP10 on the grade comparison. 
So, is MGP10 an acceptable substitute for F7, or should I perservere with my search for MGP12?

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## Gaza

MGP10 is equal to F5. 
MGP12 is about F7 or better. 
MGP12 is used by truss makers for some truss parts. so try them.

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## atregent

Success! I managed to find a timber yard that has some in stock. They've quoted me $5.45/lm, does that sound like a reasonable figure?

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## zacnelson

That sounds a bit high to me...

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## atregent

I'm getting mixed information now. I just rang another timber yard and was told the MGP10 is the replacement for F7. They also quoted me a more reasonable price, about $3.70/lm for 90x45 MGP12.

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## TermiMonster

Here's a link giving some idea of the differences: http://www.structuraldesigns.com.au/FAQs/Timber/MGP.htm
TM
PS. MGP stand for Machine Graded Pine, ie Radiata Pine, F7 is traditionally Oregon Pine.

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## john0

get the mgp12 if its available mate, as a general rule mgp 10 can replace up to f 5 and mgp 12 up to f 8, being f 7 on your plans and getting advice to replace with the mgp12 thats what i would do. We usually pay around $18 for 6m lengths 70x35 so your second quote isnt bad for the 90x45

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## atregent

Sorted. Picked it all up this morning, 90x45 MGP12 for $3.50/lm. 
Now the fun begins...

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## journeyman Mick

> .............PS. MGP stand for Machine Graded Pine, ie Radiata Pine, F7 is traditionally Oregon Pine.

  
Actually it stands for Machine Proof Grading. F7 could be any species that passes a stress grade for F7. Ie it deflects a given amount for a particular load applied to a particular cross section. Timber can be visually graded as most oregon was and as most hardwood still is. 
Mick

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## john0

MGP = Machine Graded Pine 
MPG = Machine Proof Grading

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