# Forum Home Renovation Doors, Windows, Architraves & Skirts  Insulating windows from noise

## Antonino Giglio

I need to insulate at least one bedroom windows frm external noise, the windows have very thin glass and metal frames, old stuff so you can hear all the traffic noise outside and also the thermal insulation is extremely poor. 
I saw around a website selling magnetic insulating windows: Magnetite double glazing, glazed, noise reduction, window insulation 
Do you know them? Are they really good like they say? 
Other solutions without having to change the windows? 
I know double glasing or triple glasing would be the best, but what the second best would be? 
And also what solutions are there around that won't be devastating on my wallet? 
Thanks!!!  :2thumbsup:

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## Oldsaltoz

The nearest thing I saw to this was a alloy frame made from powder coated 15 mm wide angle, this had small sections of Velcro glued to it, another window, not unlike a modified shower screen with a felt surround simply pushed into the angle. 
This was installed in a bathroom that was close the neighbours and the owner thought it would prevent the sound of the shower getting next door. 
No idea how well it worked, I was doing the waterproofing at the time.

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## myla

hi, 
any "second" window will work wonders for you, try StopNoise 
depends how much "reveal" you have to play with 
i installed a double glazed unit on the inside of my 2 bedrooms, so i have a single pane awning style window, about a 80mm air space and then a uPVC dg unit (4mm/10mm/4mm)  
the results have been fantastic for noise and heating/cooling,  
cost me $2400 7yrs ago for 2 x 1300mm x 1800mm double sliders 
thanks

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## Bloss

if you do a forum search on 'magnetite' you'll get plenty of views.

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## Antonino Giglio

Thank you guys!!!
I've actually asked a quote from Magnetite and I was surpised of the high costs!
It is only an acrylic panel at the end of the day!
Any ideas where in Melbourne can I buy acrylic panels?
Has anyone done that before?
And is the sound insulation given only by the acrylic panel or there should be a big air gap too???
Thanks!!! :2thumbsup:

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## Belair_Boy

G'day 
I used Makrolon Multiwall to "double glaze" three large windows where I am living now.
Three fold gain, lower noise, more energy efficient and much safer than the float glass alone.
I framed up against the inside of the glass with 12 mm square timber and then put in the Makrolon Multiwall, a quad held the panel in place.   Laserlite Makrolon, Twin Wall Polycarbonate Roofing | Softwoods 
Hope this helps :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

What is the cost,?? that looks like a reasonable solution

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## Belair_Boy

> What is the cost,?? that looks like a reasonable solution

  A total of 5.775 m2, 8mm thick (2 wall) clear cost me $282 delivered. So just less than $50 a square metre.

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## Antonino Giglio

> G'day 
> I used Makrolon Multiwall to "double glaze" three large windows where I am living now.
> Three fold gain, lower noise, more energy efficient and much safer than the float glass alone.
> I framed up against the inside of the glass with 12 mm square timber and then put in the Makrolon Multiwall, a quad held the panel in place.   Laserlite Makrolon, Twin Wall Polycarbonate Roofing | Softwoods 
> Hope this helps

  That is an exellent idea! Do you know if I can find magnet strips  on the market? I actually like the Magnetite idea as my windows frames are metal.
So having multiwall with magnetic strips would be the top!  :Smilie:

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## Antonino Giglio

I've actually found them!  :Smilie:  Hardware | Hinges and Brackets | Magnetic Strips
Do you think are the ones I need?

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## Ozcar

> . . .
> Do you think are the ones I need?

  The "Magnetite" that is available locally is way too expensive for DIY tragics like myself, so I was I was looking for magnetic tape myself last year. This is what I found then:   AMF Magnetics - Flexible Magnetic Products  
In the end I did not get any, and I do not know how it compares to what you found.

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## Ricardito

Well that's looks promising I have never heard of Laserlite  Makrolon. Is it clear as glass material? How do you cut it and frame it? I would love to see some pics if you don't mind    Belair Boy. Certainly Magnetite asked me for $7000 for my living room windows and door which is way out of kilter with my budget.
.

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## Antonino Giglio

> Well that's looks promising I have never heard of Laserlite  Makrolon. Is it clear as glass material? How do you cut it and frame it? I would love to see some pics if you don't mind    Belair Boy. Certainly Magnetite asked me for $7000 for my living room windows and door which is way out of kilter with my budget.
> .

  They are FAR too expensive for what they sell!!!
I think they are the only one in the market, and they patented it so no-one else can sell the same stuff. Which I think is aweful as it is a system that does not require to be a genious to invent it.
Just an acrylic pane and some magnetic strips... it shouldn't be allow to be patented because they can ask as much money they want! Robbers!!!

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## Antonino Giglio

One thing I didn't understand...
Is it true that the acrylic windows panels have better thermal and noise performance than glass like it is stated at Magnetite?
Up to 70% sound insulation??? Is it possible just with acrylic panes and no much air gap???

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## Antonino Giglio

> G'day 
> I used Makrolon Multiwall to "double glaze" three large windows where I am living now.
> Three fold gain, lower noise, more energy efficient and much safer than the float glass alone.
> I framed up against the inside of the glass with 12 mm square timber and then put in the Makrolon Multiwall, a quad held the panel in place.   Laserlite Makrolon, Twin Wall Polycarbonate Roofing | Softwoods 
> Hope this helps

  Do you think I can do it with magnetic strips?
How would I calculate the thikness of the magnetic strip needed to hold the panel??? Any idea? What is the wait of the multiwall?
Thanks!!!  :Biggrin:

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## Ozcar

> They are FAR too expensive for what they sell!!!
> I think they are the only one in the market, and they patented it so no-one else can sell the same stuff. 
> , , ,

  Dunno about patents, but when I was investigating this I also turned up references to "Magicseal". 
 eg: http://www.homeimprovementpages.com....hure_print.pdf 
I don't think they were any cheaper though. 
Also, I have no idea if the guys using the "Magnetite" name in the USA and Canada are related in any way to the blokes who sell "Magnetite" here, but they have a very different approach - they have inexpensive kits targeting the DIY market. It is a pity that the length of the bits complicates shipping (although some of the smaller kits could probably be posted).

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## Belair_Boy

> Well that's looks promising I have never heard of Laserlite  Makrolon. Is it clear as glass material? How do you cut it and frame it? I would love to see some pics if you don't mind    Belair Boy.

  For all those who are interested, here is the sheet brochure.  http://www.users.on.net/~akparrott/Makrolon_Multiwall.pdf  
There are some pictures here and a comparison between glass and the Makrolon.
As there are webs between the two layers of polycarbonate it has a diffusion effect, so if you are after a totally clear view through the window it is probably not the solution. There is nothing stopping you buying acrylic or polycarbonate sheet and making your own clear "Magnetite's". :Smilie:  
I am guessing Magnetite's "up to 70% sound insulation" figure is based on a window, small air gap and the acrylic pane. No special magic, just the effect of double glazing. 
I will take a couple of photos of my windows and post them here when I get the chance.

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## Antonino Giglio

where can i actually buy acrylica panes? bunnings???

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## Oldsaltoz

Look for a plastics distributor or sign writers.

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## Ricardito

> For all those who are interested, here is the sheet brochure.  http://www.users.on.net/~akparrott/Makrolon_Multiwall.pdf  
> There are some pictures here and a comparison between glass and the Makrolon.
> As there are webs between the two layers of polycarbonate it has a diffusion effect, so if you are after a totally clear view through the window it is probably not the solution. There is nothing stopping you buying acrylic or polycarbonate sheet and making your own clear "Magnetite's". 
> I am guessing Magnetite's "up to 70% sound insulation" figure is based on a window, small air gap and the acrylic pane. No special magic, just the effect of double glazing. 
> I will take a couple of photos of my windows and post them here when I get the chance.

  Ok Thanks for the additional info however magnetite does come with PVC frames and magentic strips so I wonder where I can get some PVC window profiles to make such frames and add the magnetic strips on the perimeter?
I suppose I can always use Makrolon for the lower panels in my windows they do not represent any visual interference.

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## Belair_Boy

> I wonder where I can get some PVC window profiles to make such frames and add the magnetic strips on the perimeter?

  Maybe there is a PVC channel profile for 10mm plasterboard that you can use, check out your local hardware store, they should have a variety of PVC profiles.

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## Ricardito

Ok! Thanks 
I will use acrylic it will cost me about $450 to insulate the whole timber frame area
5mx2m and 3mx1.8m  window frames

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## Antonino Giglio

no one for this last question???  :Frown:

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## Antonino Giglio

> G'day 
> I used Makrolon Multiwall to "double glaze" three large windows where I am living now.
> Three fold gain, lower noise, more energy efficient and much safer than the float glass alone.
> I framed up against the inside of the glass with 12 mm square timber and then put in the Makrolon Multiwall, a quad held the panel in place.   Laserlite Makrolon, Twin Wall Polycarbonate Roofing | Softwoods 
> Hope this helps

  btw, did you only use the multiwall or also the other component that are specified in the brochure? thanks!  :Smilie:

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## Belair_Boy

After more questions I have pulled my finger out and take a few photos of my Makrolon window "double glazing".  
Bottom corner from the inside. Quad holding Makrolon against the 19x19 timber battens. Note: nails have not been punched and filled as this is only our current accommodation while I build the house. (was going to say short term but it is going to be a couple more years yet)  
Top corner from the inside. As you can see, the view is diffused due to the ribs between the two walls of the Makrolon sheet.  
Outside looking through the glass at the timber batten. The window is in need of a clean and the frame needs a lot of TLC but is low on the list of priorities.  :Smilie:

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## Ricardito

Have you check for noise level reduction before and after?

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## uavv

I'm planning to fix polycarbonate sheets over existing windows. 
They will be about 6-10cm behind the existing ones.
I can get the choice of 3 thickness;3mm or 6mm or 11mm, with 30% extra cost respectively. 
My question is; will the 11mm thickness provide much better noise insulation over 6mm sheet? or is 6mm enough?

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## Canberran

The effect of double glaziing on sound occurs because the transmission of the sound waves is interrupted.  This is partly dependent on the material absorbing the 'wobble' and partly dependent on the space between the panes.  For heat insulation, the ideal distance range is about 8 to 20 mm (it has to be too small for the air to make a convection current with hot air rising and cold air falling), and for sound insulation it is better to have a wider gap.  I am not sure of the ideal, but the demos for sound have been about 40 mm apart.  It has to be well sealed, as well.  It also depends on the frequency of the sound you are trying to block. Deeper sounds (traffic grumble) needs more distance and probably more solid panes, I think. (it would be worth checking on an acoustic site).   The 6mm should be plenty for most sound, I would guess.  The demo sound reduction double glazing I have seen has used 3 ml sheets, and the effect was amazing..... but with the bigger gap between.

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## Ricardito

I have been told not to use polycarbonate but acrylic or plexiglass instead it is less flexible and less prone to wobble and discoloration.
The air cavity must be about 80 to 100mm wide to obtain a good STC and must be sure  to insulate your panes from flanking noise that is noise traveling indirectly through small gaps. Surely the thickness of the second panel is important especially facing a very noisy street 10mm plexiglass is recommended but all depends of the state of the windows so make sure all gaps have been covered and How you going to attach panels whether it will be fixed by caulking or magnetic make sure no sound leaks through them.

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## Ricardito

The major challenge with removable panels is to make the edges air tight  with a good quality seal around the perimeter. I would not use fixed features since it would entail breaking it all if modifications are necessary so it becomes more expensive in option in the long run.

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## Ricardito

Sorry guys but tell me if I am wrong all this business of sound blocking gives me an idea What if one places a good quality seal around the window rebate and then lay acrylic or polycarbonate preferably a thick pane locking it in place with nylon clips the sort of clips electrician work all and every day?
Forget expensive magnetic tapes or steel framing because in this way the acrylic pane will be floating over a rubber gasket effectively sealing the air and preventing flanking noise I thought to use 10mm or greater acrylic for my next project
.

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## uavv

If you have smalish windows you can use pvc curtians, i tried this and it was very effective, 3mm thick.
I just hung it between the window and curtan, it had an extra clerance around the windows sides.
only problem is that pvc curtans are toxic.
The window i want to do next is big, 2.4mx1.8m. What prices are 6mm plexiglass or acrylic in that size?

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## MR TINT

Double glazing is very efficient in acoustic insulation and winter heat retention but not effective if just clear plain glass for reducing summer heat gain------look closely at the Magnetite web site where it states all its fantastic summer insulating qualities------it assumes the glass has solar film applied!!!!!!

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## Ricardito

Thanks guys As far as prices for acrylic or plexiglass it varies a lot between suppliers but the good thing it is easy to install if the pane is thicken than 4mm forget magnetic tapes you have to secure the panes somehow to the frames. I also have very large windows one is 11 m2  and three more of 2.5mx1.7m as well so I am negotiating with a co. to supply alum profiles to take on laminated glass and if the prices is right air pockets of 100mm.   I am not that worried about tinting for heat block as I do not have many hours of direct sunlight and have large tress around as well.  In Adelaide I have knowledge of a newly formed company under the auspices of Sounblock(a Sydney based company) may be worth checking up as startup companies may charge a little less so they become known.

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## uavv

I looked into this further, i talked to a few glaziers and watched the money signs in their eyes, since noise reduction is expensive. 
Most windows made 20-30yrs ago had 3mm glass, since there were no minimum standards. Just replacing the glass in your window to current  standards of 4.5mm+ thick glass with help alot. 
the most expensive option, but the most effective, its to put a double glazed window with 2 different(important) thickness sheets of glass at least 100mm apart. But no glazier will do this because you can not have a opening window with 100mm gap between the two glass sheets. A glazier will only do double glazing with 20-30mm gap. You must have at least 100mm for the sound wave to be interrupted. 
A cheaper option is just to install another window behind the current window, this is suprislying cheap if you just use normal glass, which is 4.5-5mm thick. Laminated 6.38mm glass is about 40% extra cost over normal glass. 
As for Magnetite, its way to expensive for what what it does, it costs nearly the same as installing a second laminated window behind the current window, and it only uses Acrylic, which has half the insualtion properties of glass.  
The cheapest option is to fix acrylic sheets to the back of existing windows. You have to do some dyi work to get a seal, but just laying the acrylic on a window with insulation material around the edges does a significant damping of the midrange sounds, if this is what you want. You have to use 6mm or thicker, and it has to be acrylic since polycarbon fades.  
Here are some rought prices I got quoted, per square meter..
  6mm acrylic  Just sheets          $45
  10mm acrylic just sheets          $90
  single glazed window non-lami   $200+
   single glazed window 6.38 lami   $300+
  Magnetite                                 $300
  Double glazed                          $550+

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## Dave_KB

Thats really good info...I like the idea of the 2nd window as a cost effective option. 
I replaced glass in some aluminium windows like you said but it made no difference..the problem with aluminium windows made 20 years ago is that they are not sealed properly (at least my sliding ones aren't)...unless you close every gap, replacing the glass is not much use.

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## aquamullet

G'day got this rubber flexible magnetic profile on ebay for 3mm acrylic  Magnetic Flexible Clip for 3mm Acrylic Panel | eBay 
cheers   

> I need to insulate at least one bedroom windows frm external noise, the windows have very thin glass and metal frames, old stuff so you can hear all the traffic noise outside and also the thermal insulation is extremely poor. 
> I saw around a website selling magnetic insulating windows: Magnetite double glazing, glazed, noise reduction, window insulation 
> Do you know them? Are they really good like they say? 
> Other solutions without having to change the windows? 
> I know double glasing or triple glasing would be the best, but what the second best would be? 
> And also what solutions are there around that won't be devastating on my wallet? 
> Thanks!!!

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## Ozcar

> G'day got this rubber flexible magnetic profile on ebay for 3mm acrylic  Magnetic Flexible Clip for 3mm Acrylic Panel | eBay 
> cheers

  Well, I pleased to see somebody wants to cater for the DIY market here. 
I'm not so sure it hits the mark though. The price is stated as $27.00, and the description includes " sold by the metre.", so I have to assume it is $27 per metre.  
If that is correct, I consider it to be overpriced. The Magnetite sold in kit form in the USA is priced in the range around $10 to $12.50 per metre, and that includes not just edging that goes on the acrylic panels, but also the steel framing the magnetic strip clings to, and assorted bits & bobs like pull handles.

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## Bloss

Reckon the OP might have done the work since the last post in May 2011 - but maybe not . . .   :Wink:

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## Ozcar

Unlike the OP here, I am more interested in thermal insulation than in a sound barrier, and I have not yet found a solution. 
From what I have seen in this thread, and other similar ones here and elsewhere, there are lots of people in Australia who like the Magnetite idea, but who just about had a heart attack when they heard how much it would cost them.   
I still live in hope that somebody will sell something like the Magnetite kits available overseas, and at a price more in line with those - Magnetite.com - Products .

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## Dave_KB

Slightly different than the other ebay product is this stuff:  MAGNETIC TAPE & STEEL TAPE SECONDARY GLAZING - 20m KIT FOR WHITE WINDOW FRAMES | eBay

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