# Forum Home Renovation General Odds & Sods  Fixing into cement fibre sandwich panel?

## evilalpaca

Hi All! 
I want to fix some brackets to hang an extension ladder in my partially enclosed carport. The "wall" of the carport is made of some kind of fencing sandwich panel, there is a small gap near one of the support posts and I can see that the panels are about 40mm thick, with two facings of roughly 5mm cement fibre board and a core of polystyrene foam insulation. I don't know what product it is, but appears similar to this stuff. 
I figure it should be solid enough to hold my aluminium extension ladder, but I'm lost when it comes to the appropriate fixing to use? Not sure if a standard sort of timber/chipboard screw would do the job, or a Tek screw or if something more fancy like inserting some plugs first from the Ramset section of the big green shed will be required? 
Cheers for any advice.

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## FrodoOne

> Hi All! 
> I want to fix some brackets to hang an extension ladder in my partially enclosed carport. The "wall" of the carport is made of some kind of fencing sandwich panel, there is a small gap near one of the support posts and I can see that the panels are about 40mm thick, with two facings of roughly 5mm cement fibre board and a core of polystyrene foam insulation. I don't know what product it is, but appears similar to this stuff. 
> I figure it should be solid enough to hold my aluminium extension ladder, but I'm lost when it comes to the appropriate fixing to use? Not sure if a standard sort of timber/chipboard screw would do the job, or a Tek screw or if something more fancy like inserting some plugs first from the Ramset section of the big green shed will be required? 
> Cheers for any advice.

  OK. 
I note that, after three days, you have not yet received a reply to your post!
Therefore, I will make a reply, as best I can, and it may be that someone will see the errors in my opinion, correct me and we may all glean some information. 
I also note that the material concerned is composed of two "cement-fiber" boards sandwiching a polystyrene core.
While you have not stated, I am assuming that the  outer cement fiber-board is visible (from somewhere) and you would not want it to be "defaced" on its exposed side.
If the above is true, your only option is the same as hanging the object(s) concerned from a single cement sheet. 
There are various devices designed to secure objects to such sheets but, if you would not want such fixings seen from an exterior viewpoint, "toggle" bolts appear not to be an option.
There are still several other options but the best would probably be "Ramset Hollow Wall Anchors", since "Ramset Walmate Anchors" appear to be designed for plasterboard and NOT cement-fiber sheet. 
However, please note that each of these items seem to have a maximum load described as of (about) 10 kg (Weight).  (Of course, this should be expressed as 98 Newtons.  My remark to this effect may excite Marc, and others, to respond.)
Because of the above, I believe that you would be well advise to first fix a suitable length (and width) of timber to the material concerned (using a suitable number of such "Hollow Wall Anchors") and then affix other such suitable "hangers" for your extension ladder to this intermediate timber, by means of normal wood screws. 
Further, it would be possible to apply a suitable "adhesive" between the timber and the wall surface to increase the adhesion and load bearing capacity of the two, prior to finally fixing the timber with whatever "wall anchor" that you choose.  However, this would probably mean that you could never remove the timber concerned without significantly damaging the wall surface. 
Good luck!

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## evilalpaca

Thanks for the detailed reply, you're correct that I'd rather not fix right through the panel. The other side faces my neighbour and aside from looking a bit unsightly it would be awkward to access as there's a sizable drop off on the other side. 
The hollow wall anchors will probably be the way to go, my only concern looking at them before was whether the polystyrene core would be soft enough to allow the "legs" to fold out and clamp against the fibre board, hopefully it is. I'll probably give them a go without the timber you suggested, the ladder is reasonably light weight and the hook/bracket in the middle can be fixed to one of the metal uprights so at least that one will be nice and solid. 
If I get it wrong and the brackets pull out, I can always cover it up with a piece of timber like you described afterwards, and fix the timber somewhere else. 
Appreciate the input!

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## Marc

Are you sure that there is no timber structure to screw into? Surely it is not one panel?
If you are going to use hollow wall anchoring, they are all a bit wimpy, so in order to achieve some strength you have to use a number of them.
Best way is to fix two three or four, you be the judge, vertical strips of wood about time and a half the width of your ladder,  with a series of those screws aided by a generous amount of epoxy glue for concrete. Once they are in place, you can use normal steel brackets straight in the wood in any position you like.
It should hold a few kilos each, (not Newton since he is dead and buried) but don't forget the strength is limited to what 5mm of fibro cement can hold. 
If you like to experiment, try an ordinary plastic wall plug in an inconspicuous place, drill the fibro cement carefully and the soft core, tap the plug in place and try a screw in the normal way, then apply lateral force to see how it behaves. it may well be that the styrofoam is compact enough to give a reasonable response, so you can apply the wood strips with epoxy glue and normal wall plugs and screws.

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## notvery

Could you not attach the hangers higher so they hang from a bearer or some such for the roof? even a joist and then twist the hanger around to face the right direction? some hangers have very long drops, e.g. the ones i had to use are about 50cm drop from where they are fixed to where the ladder sits. might also get the ladder up higher and more out the way.

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## evilalpaca

Thanks Marc & Notvery. To answer couple of questions; 
- No I don't believe the panels have any timber framing in them. The construction is very much like the link I posted in the OP and as I understand it the panels use interlocking plastic parts to sort of tongue & groove into each other, and are held in place by thin aluminium/steel channel "edging" pieces on all four sides which are fixed to upright powder coated steel posts every ~2.4 metres.
- One of my original ideas was to use hangers like you've described, because the cliplok roofing has gaps which would make it easy enough to hang something from the top. The unfortunate thing is the track for the automatic garage panel door will probably get in the way unless I'm able to find some with *really* long drops on them. I guess I could try to make something.... 50cm probably won't make it. 
Thanks again. I'll ponder some more on the weekend and maybe try a test fixing somewhere discreet.

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## evilalpaca

Old thread but thought I'd mention I went with the Ramset hollow wall anchors, but in the end it didn't matter too much. I was able to pick up the aluminium channel at the edges of each panel which hold the panels in place, which gave the wall plugs plenty of 'meat' to hold onto. Whatever foam was behind there didn't seem to impede the folding action of the wall anchor. (some of it seemed to be channeled out around the edges of the panels).

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