# Forum Home Renovation Lighting  Confused - Led lights and heat

## cam_jim

In a recent post: http://www.renovateforum.com/f195/wh...-celing-97318/
by Canberraslim he/she mentioned "_I have spoken to our trusted electrician who has advised that LEDs are  not a solution as they too generate heat and our ceiling is a bit  precarious_." 
So a quick google produced this: Do LED Lights Produce Heat?
"I_n the end, the answer to the question Do LED lights produce heat? is  quite simply, A little bit. They do not produce enough heat to be a  fire hazard or to cause a burn, but they do release heat in the process  of producing light._ " 
So now I'm a little confused. My daughter and son in law recently bought a house with halogen downlights. When I checked in the ceiling, where the insulation was packed around the lights it was charred and a couple of the lights had been fitted under the wooden beams(?) and the beams had actually shown signs of charring. As there was no way of fitting those protective shrouds around the ones under the beam was thinking of replacing them with led lights. But now have the above conflicting information. So which is correct? 
Lights are not being used until this is sorted.

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## johnc

Halegon lights apparently produce up to 370C in heat, even if that is not correct they certainly produce enough heat to char wood and burn insulation. LED's produce only a little heat, and are cool to the touch I doubt they could generate enough heat to cause anything to burn, even then it would need to touch the back of the light. They can't have insulation up against them as the heat they produce will damage the light if it can't disipate. I think your electrician is mistaken about the heat from LED's however don't take my word for it I am only a DIYer, there must be information somewhere in the specs on heat output for any given light.

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## SilentButDeadly

Yes....the high powered LED globes do produce heat.  Quite a lot of it.  But they do not produce the glass melting and timber charring heat that a halogen globe can manage.  So they won't incinerate their immeadiate surroundings. 
BUT 
Heat kills LEDs.  That's why they often have big metal heatsinks on the globe - to dispel the heat generated by the LED.  If the globe can't rid itself of the heat then they'll run hot....and they'll die in short order.  Thus wasting your investment. 
CFL GU10 downlight globes run cooler than either the above but they still generate warmth.....and they die too if kept warm 
So the message is.......no matter what the globe......don't pack insulation around a downlight.   
Easiest, cheapest solution is to replace the downlights with more effective and user friendly lights.  Because in the end, downlights suck.

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## johnc

> Easiest, cheapest solution is to replace the downlights with more effective and user friendly lights. Because in the end, downlights suck.

  That in a nutshell sums up every downlight, they partly obscure the emmission of the light, reduce thermal efficiency and really are a general PITA.

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## stevoh741

I agree but batten lights and CF's look chit! I'm going back to candles!!!!!

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## johnc

Except candles leave wax and smoke on the paint work if used to often, best to do without light altogether and just go to bed early. :Biggrin:

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## DIYPete

LED lights, this will go on for years. LED lights are fantastic- its just the electronics side that lets them down. LED lights are so bright now, 1 LED will replace a 50w downlight ( actually you would put a dimmer on it). BUT the electronics will fail way before the LED. They need electronics to limit the current. The harder you drive them ( the more light you want), the more heat produced. The electronics is only rated to 50C-60C so you would want to put them in the roof, maybe a bottom floor, but definately not in the ceiling.

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## Smurf

> I agree but batten lights and CF's look chit! I'm going back to candles!!!!!

  At least surface mounted lights do the job of lighting a room with reasonable efficiency and safety. 
Go into any house that's more than 20 years old and hasn't been renovated and there are plenty of distinctive features from the era that are easy to spot. In the future, downlights will be one of those distinctive things that were popular in the 90's and 00's. They'll go out of fashion just like the idea of having every object in the house either mission brown or burnt orange went out of fashion along with disco music three decades ago.

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## Master Splinter

Halogen lights need to run hot in order for the light to actually function as designed (it's got to do with redepositing metal back on the filament to ensure filament life). 
For LEDs, the critical 'do not exceed this temperature' temperature (to prevent early failure) is about 120 degrees for the actual LED itself, however the heatsink runs at about 50 degrees, so the majority of units should be fine in a roof.  (buy one and test it to see how it works).

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## cam_jim

Thanks to all who took time to reply. Greatly appreciated.

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## Trevy

One more factor to consider.
If you are going to dispose of old globes or lamps it is also worth knowing that most types can be recycled.  According to this lighting maintenance Sydney website the following types of globes can be recycled= 
Straight, u-shaped and coated fluorescent, high pressure mercury vapour (HIDs), high pressure sodium vapour (HIDs), metal halide, ultraviolet,voltaic arc, dichroic & compact fluorescent lamps. 
The reason for recycling is that the mercury should not be put into landfill. By recycling the globes the mercury is removed and the glass is metal is then re-used in manufacturing.

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