# Forum More Stuff Go to Whoa!  Mt Eliza Extension ICF

## timtoolman

* Mt Eliza Extension ICF*First time forum user, 
i'm about to start construction of extension to my small abode in Mt Eliza.
current house is 96 sqm which is tiny compared to previous project of 350 sqm so should be fun to pull apart. 
current designs consist of stage 1 development of front garage and dining room extension, this will form the base for the rear extension 
status:
town-planning has been approved and the trees have been cleared in preparation for building permit. 
please feel free to add comments and enjoy the process ahead, i'll attempt to at least visit daily for answering questions and receiving feedback.

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## timtoolman

Proposed floor plan stage 1

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## OBBob

Welcome Tim.

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## wozzzzza

tim the tool man is going to give his abode MORE POWER!!!!!!!

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## timtoolman

https://youtu.be/YYRJe6wuXnA 
link to removal of 1 of the trees, the tree was later found to house termites, which will now require house checked.
the girth of tree is 80% creeper 20% tree.
we had traffic management block the road, as this limb was unsafe to climb.
have plenty of fire wood for winter. 
house status: BS has asked for additional info on ICF construction, so a few more hurdles before permit.

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## timtoolman

yay, building permit arrived today. full steam ahead.
should be a relatively quick process.

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## timtoolman

evening all, after long weekend on the excavator we have now finished the excavations for the front fence and garage 
Reinforcement is in and inspection tomorrow.
all going well, i might even pour concrete tomorrow.
any one need some clean fill in the peninsula area.....
photos to come

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## Gaza

Can't wait to see pics

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## timtoolman

After a hard day by myself i managed to prepare and place all reo including the front fence starter bars.
I had inspectors booked for early PM and had concrete on hold.
concrete arrived at 3:30 and i was immediately told that the truck can't enter site due to low power line.
this was a bad thing as the pour i had planned was for straight from chute into all trenches, so barrow got employed.
Thanks to neigbour who offered to help with his barrow and shovel we finished pour with 40min overtime. (1.5hrs total) not too bad for 7m3
the negative to this is i still had balance to come and it arrived at 6pm, so lights on for final fence pour which was straight from chute and took 15min to unload 6m3.
I must have good neighbours as another neighbour helped with the laser to complete levelling.
8:30 inside and i was stuffed. but now have thursday to relax.

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## timtoolman



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## commodorenut

Big day! 
What's happening with the gas meter?

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## Godzilla73

Looking good, so you did all the reo and associated footing bits yourself?

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## timtoolman

I have spoken to gas conpany.
I will build ICF walls to 900. Concrete and water proof and then back fill front yard for gas meter to end up on back/ side wall. I'm just glad I was able to save the line in at fence pad and garage footing.

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## timtoolman

Yes, footings reo and bits myself.
I had a mate follow me on excavator.

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## timtoolman

all concrete in. walls start tomorrow. should be a fun day. starter bars i used a template to locate reo exactly to the core within the ICF wall blocks
window adjacent AC will be replaced to suit new opening.
locating conduits for meter enclosure and NBN (fun job)  has ended up perfect.

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## timtoolman

afternoon.
going back a few days, these are conduit runs for Power and NBN
done on last Saturday before footings were dug. 
Sunday was birthday commitments and a little setting out 
i dug trench for conduits to be laid.
a close look can see the y join in trench for comms and power to front gates

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## Bigboboz

Did you put draw wires through the conduits or expect the cables to stiff enough to push through?  Will in theory need to do something similar in the future so curious

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## timtoolman

I put nylon string from Bunnings as a draw string, just be careful with blue glue as it will glue the draw string to inside of conduit. Cable gets tied to draw string.
I have seen a sparky use a vacuum to suck string Thru at later date to.

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## commodorenut

Compressed air also works well.  I've done it several times now - make a "pig" out of rag that forms a tight enough seal to the conduit ID, tie the drawstring to it, run off enough string to have a few feet left at either end, then jam the lot down the end you're at - holding the last couple of feet of string.  Then jam the duster gun in, seal up around it with more rag, and blast away.

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## timtoolman

evening all
saturday was spent at brothers house pouring a garage slab, after that an interesting night of wind and rain,
i had to batten down the hatches as polystyrene not the biggest fan of wind.
after the rain stopped at lunch i braved the cold wind and prepared the house extension for first pour.
just requires a few braces at corners and to close in any holes.
The garage will follow tomorrow after i clean the mud from trenches.

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## timtoolman

another busy day.
all installed and reinforced ready for council inspection, bracing tomorrow and install rear door frame to garage.
weather forecast for tomorrow has warnings all over the place.
after photos i added more timbers to weigh down the wall in prep for high winds.

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## Godzilla73

Certainly picked a great day to start. 💨 So do you have stump holes to do or is it an infill slab?

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## timtoolman

Hi Godzilla.
the garage will have infill slab, the house extension i'm extending beares and joists. no stumps, the spans are quite short.
what would normally be brick piers i'm forming up in concrete. 
cheers

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## Godzilla73

Nice, yes i was glad to find the spans of LVL Bearers and Joists were quite good. Helped me eliminate 20 stump holes @ 3300mm deep in my soon to start extension.

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## timtoolman

another day braving the weather and all formwork bracing in at major load points for pour tomorrow.
The rear door to garage i have packed up on temporary blocks to form cavity for the infill slab to pass under door to external face.
This complex corner i have thrown in extra reo for good measure. i over lapped the blocks in lieu of mitre as easier to pin together. and braced accordingly.

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## timtoolman

yesterday we did the first pour for the garage and house walls, i added an extra coarse to pick up the meter box. no blow outs and supplier quite accurate in there take off of quantities required. After lunch i started making the front fence posts, 
Today I bitumen coated the external wall to garage and installed conduits within fence columns for future lighting. a little bracing tomorrow for afternoon pour. 
concrete pour friday to additional garage and fence posts.

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## timtoolman

Hi Godzilla, 
the good thing about LVL's is you can order what ever length you like, as long as it fits on a truck. eliminates joins and makes floor stronger as you get a continuous spans across support.
your place...3300mm deep into ground, or 3300 stump length. ?

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## Godzilla73

Need 16 piers 450 dia 3300 deep under a 450 deep strip footing and 9 piers 3300 deep 350 dia with a regular pad on top for  concrete stumps longest will be probably 1500.  
It's only a class m soil but there's 4 large conifers on a neighbors property and the engineer had a panic attack. Fortunately a good mate owns a earthmoving company.  
Going up a to 140mm deep bearers and joists eliminated 10 piers which saves a few $$$.

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## timtoolman

thats nuts. was he worried about ground water being used by trees, or there roots affecting the foundations.
i've had this myself, the engineer just asked for a root barrier.

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## Godzilla73

Just the water used by the trees was the concern, is what it is. You jump through a few hoops to keep everyone happy, at least I know it won't sink.

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## timtoolman

front fence posts poured this afternoon, was a harder than expected job as i had to lift the bucket to 1.8m. wheel barrow 2 buckets 2 people passing and took us 1 hr 20min.
the only post i had concern with was the main driveway post which was weakened buy conduit run within column. good thing about polystyrene is you can shave off the lumps and bumps. 
building surveyor has requested more information on stopping termite attack thru polystyrene, on readying into it, the termites like to build mud tunnels to get to the food source, polystyrene helps the termite by allowing the termite a soft substrate to remove and make tunnels. these tunneles they use to get to timber, in my case the next major building element is the roof framing.
to combat this you could perimeter spray with termite part A and B. in my case i'll be using treated pine top plate on top of icf walls, and using the blue impregnated termite plastic as backing for retaining wall. followed at completion by part B spray to building perimeter. 
any way back to building. 
i have excavator on hire for weekend to punch out the garage setout for slab. slab required to allow me to roll around a mobile scaffold during upper concrete pours, which will be pumped.. i might even use a scissor lift. 
photos tomorrow.

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## timtoolman

Saturday spent leveling for garage slab. extra parking now available.
Sunday removing mountain of dirt to back yard.

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## OBBob

It looks like a landscaping supplies yard! Perhaps you should be advertising.  :Smilie:

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## timtoolman

photo of sundays dirt clearing. after photo the rain cleaned the driveway. so we have a white gravel path again.

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## timtoolman

after a week of ordinary weather, i have finally poured garage slab, i was going to leave this until after roof went on, however i needed a flat surface to drive scissor lift on, so i can pour top of wall from scissor lift. 
photos show prep work, white puddles is termite spray treatment. gas meter got relocated on wednesday and connected to house on friday, a couple of cold evenings.
the plastic i put down last night(friday) with the reinforcment for 6:30 start this morning. all complete by 2pm.
i also kept 2 barrows and added black oxide to create letterbox podium. podium has 4 16mm threaded rod to bolt letterbox down.
what looks like overflow concrete around house extension is temporary in preparation for scissor lift access. nice and flat.

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## Godzilla73

Looking good.

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## timtoolman

House extension now starting to take shape. windows cut outs started. Timber window forms and garage to follow.
still no actual date for truck appointment to get power underground. a little frustrating.

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## timtoolman

another day and starting to take shape, retaining back filled and garage walls built. its time to start breaking into existing house. winter will be the test.

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## travelislife

Moving along at a good pace!

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## timtoolman

window boxes in place.
these have the window reveals attached to form the concrete to match the window profile.

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## timtoolman

more foam before rain. walls at plate level ready for trusses.

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## timtoolman

block work finished for the next pour.
reinforcement and bracing to follow.
pour next week.
the turret complete to plate level.
milestone reach today in that i have now broken into existing building. 
i have a quiet 2 weeks ahead as the power authority has given the 3rd of June as the disconnect and reconnect to underground,
i might start the rendering of fence columns to keep atop everything.

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## timtoolman

been a busy couple of weeks,
i have braced the walls for pour tomorrow.
i have placed all reo to walls
the window frames required extensive bracing as the polystyrene blocks were compromised to suit the architectural detail of skinny windows.
switchboard installed, underground cabling to be done in preparation for overhead cable removal. 
windows have arrived and the trusses arrive tomorrow.

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## timtoolman

photos steel beam installedpoly installed to steel beam, the little hurdle above wall is to allow space to slide top plate in while concrete is wetconcrete pour, slow day for driver, top plate on ground ready for install. plastic on top plate is termite barrier.tuseday :Redface:  walls all poured plates in and bolted into wet concrete.wednesday  - trusses arrivedput first trusses up at 5pm wednesday.roof trusses complete to garage.
time to break into existing house, have to install beams inside roof at height of polystyrene walls, i have 2 days before weather turns.

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## travelislife

Looking good. Height of garage opening seems quite low? Or is that just because of the scale of the existing/new bit adjacent.

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## timtoolman

Hi Travelislife
yes the scale is playing with image, the ceiling height of house extension is 3000.
The town planning was changed from previously approved carport, from previous owner 
when i converted to garage they said heights cant exceed that of previous design.
the garage door is 2150 which is at lower end of a comfortable height. which also dictates a panel lift door.
pity the weather is going to be ordinary for a week, was hoping to get roof on.
cheers

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## Prados

> after a week of ordinary weather, i have finally poured garage slab, i was going to leave this until after roof went on, however i needed a flat surface to drive scissor lift on, so i can pour top of wall from scissor lift. 
> photos show prep work, white puddles is termite spray treatment. gas meter got relocated on wednesday and connected to house on friday, a couple of cold evenings.
> the plastic i put down last night(friday) with the reinforcment for 6:30 start this morning. all complete by 2pm.
> i also kept 2 barrows and added black oxide to create letterbox podium. podium has 4 16mm threaded rod to bolt letterbox down.
> what looks like overflow concrete around house extension is temporary in preparation for scissor lift access. nice and flat.

   Hi Tim! 
From your pics I can see that your walls are separate from the slab, no starter bars at all... is that right? or am I missing something? Thanks,
Alex.

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## travelislife

> Hi Tim! 
> From your pics I can see that your walls are separate from the slab, no starter bars at all... is that right? or am I missing something? Thanks,
> Alex.

  Tim will be able to answer better, but I am pretty sure the walls are founded on beam/strip footings with starter bars up through the walls (refer to the earlier photos up thread). The slab has then been poured as a standard slab on ground not tied in to the walls. It's actually not a bad way of doing it. Any movement in the slab actually won't have any effect on the walls as they are isolated from each other (unless I have missed the slab being dowelled in around the perimeter).

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## timtoolman

Hi Alex.
the slab is poured as an infill slab using the walls as formwork. chalk line to perimeter and no boxing required (except doors), means i only required one concretor to screed and mates as labourers. the walls are on reinforced strip footings with starter bars at 800cc and horizontal reo.
As the wall is a retaining wall for the first 800mm, i improve the rotation forces by having internal slab resisiting rotational forces, (albeit after the poly has compressed). 
the infill slab and the sacrificial slab external have been a absolute bonus as scissor lift has become my mechanical labourer. 
regards

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## timtoolman

so more photos of progress.
installed first of 8 windows, 3 to replace existing windows and 5 new ones in polystyrene
photo this morning when tarp came off and this afternoon before rain came.
the scissor lift was my apprentice today.
building trusses by ones self is a fun job.
the vertical leg of trusses will have 100mm polystyrene sheet added.
roof measure on monday.
tomorrow and part of weekend to get battens on.

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## Godzilla73

Looking good, were the trusses measuered after the walls went up, or off the plans?

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## timtoolman

Off the plans, trusses take 4-6 weeks to get, so i had ordered before site was cleared. the only late change i made was i changed to termite treated timber.
this weekend will be joining trusses to existing and battening out for roof sheeting.

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## Prados

> Hi Alex.
> the slab is poured as an infill slab using the walls as formwork. chalk line to perimeter and no boxing required (except doors), means i only required one concretor to screed and mates as labourers. the walls are on reinforced strip footings with starter bars at 800cc and horizontal reo.
> As the wall is a retaining wall for the first 800mm, i improve the rotation forces by having internal slab resisiting rotational forces, (albeit after the poly has compressed). 
> the infill slab and the sacrificial slab external have been a absolute bonus as scissor lift has become my mechanical labourer. 
> regards

  Thanks Tim! 
I also noticed that you didn't use vapour barrier under your footings, is that because your walls are ICF+concrete or because of soil? Asking because in SA we must use high impact membrane which is orange plastic (also known as builders film)... and all joints shall be lapped and taped with 50mm tape - such a waste of time to be honest... 
What about termite treatment? I suppose because of concrete walls and trusses made from treated pine you don't need any treatment?

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## timtoolman

Hi Alex.
the footings themselves don't normally get plastic membrane, the slab has black plastic under 
The concrete core is 32 mpa concrete which is considered impervious to water. the external perimeter will be bitumen sealed before external paving or garden are installed and render is also considered a sealant.
the house extension will have brick piers to support bearers and joists. these are separated by builders film you referred to,
if you look at post 35, the white puddles are the termite pre-slab treatment.
although termites don't actually eat the polystyrene, they do use to make tunnels to get to timber.
in my case all timber elements in contact with polystyrene are termite treated.
i have gone a little overboard and have also installed a termite resistant membrane under top plate, as it is easier to do during construction than afterwards if a problem occurs
cheers
Tim

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## timtoolman

battens complete, existing roof repitched, ready for metal roof to be installed,all i need is for rain to stop.
Tarps are getting thrashed.

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## OBBob

Progress!

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## Godzilla73

Busy busy, thanks for taking the time to update us.

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## timtoolman

nice quiet day today, cleanup driveway and tried my hand at brick laying.
i have render material on order, so the new window got bricked up to allow for render also.

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## timtoolman

fascia and gutter and roofing started to garage, awaiting 2 plank scaffold for upper roof. also the rain has been very regular so tarps are staying in place.

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## CraigandKate

Looking good mate! Would be keen to know what you think of your roofing plumber, I will need one shortly..

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## Prados

> fascia and gutter and roofing started to garage, awaiting 2 plank scaffold for upper roof. also the rain has been very regular so tarps are staying in place.

  Be careful with your tarps as they can damage (scratch all over) your brand new roofing, even if its not windy!
Love your walls... :2thumbsup:  keep asking myself why I decided to go with timber framing...

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## Toolman70

Hi Everyone, i have been off for a few weeks getting stuff done during crap weather.
I have now had roof completed, (1 flashing to go)
windows installed
internal flooring built.
eave sheet installed.
i have removed existing brickwork internally and am about to break into existing house, a couple of cold nights await.
now ready for render.

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## Toolman70

testing

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## Toolman70

another big day today, removed the internal wall of house, flooring to follow, rough ins for power and plaster.
drop sheet makes a very pour insulator. a little bit breezy.
space looks great though. stage 1 is to have this as extra dining room space, stage 2 to come will turn it into a bedroom.

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## Davenev

Hi: just found your thread - a great read. I'm planning a new ICF house, so very interested in what you're doing. A couple of initial questions if I may :Redface: 
Looks like either Zego or Thermacell;  wondering which you went with, and why. I'm looking at both,  but Thermacell is coming out ahead atm, mostly because I can build the walls more easily in two stages: up to floor level (900 mm), and the 2.7 m remainder after I place the steel subfloor and waterproof ply flooring (to be used as the work platform given the lack of space around the perimeter).
Did you need to use expanding foam to level up and seal the first run to the footings?
How did you go with the pours - any blowouts?
Did you need engineer's calcuulations at all for your building permit?  It looked like it came through fairly quickly. 
I'm sure other questions will occur to me: first post on this forum,  so I hope I've not breached any rules of etiquette.  I'm hoping to start my own thread, as we already have cleared the block and got the planning permit,  and are nearly ready to apply for a building permit.  
Cheers

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## Toolman70

Hi.
I used Thermacell as the supplier is 15km from my house, and was able to order 95% of what i needed and went down and picked up balance. 
The Thermacell blocks are fantastic and work really well when dimensions of building match the 200 or 250 increments of blocks.
you can cut and shape corners accordingly just have to maintain keying as best as possible, i foam filled the angled corners before pour. (post 25) the blocks that are cut need bracing to stop blowouts.
i had 1 blowout during last pour where i had a 45deg cut against existing brick wall ( inside garage left of switchboard you can see the concrete spew curve)
i collected the spill, braced the wall further and threw back in the top. 
other companys will only sell you there system if you use there scaffold hire. i bought sissor lift cheaper than hire cost. just meant i had to pour slab early to allow scissor to drive.'
my footings were a little up and down, so i picked the lowest point and cut blocks to the highest point. i braced to stop moving (post 25 and 26). and poured first 3 courses with barrow and buckets. 3 guys 1 hr to pour 2 cubic. no leaks or blowouts, i was quite impressed
i avoided the expanda foam as it is strong enough to move blocks. i was able to pick up entire house extension 3 coarse's high, all stayed together. bracing to stop shifting in plan and keep level in elevation.
i used the engineer Ian Scott who did the design manual for thermacell product, this was awesome as he doesn't over engineer. he bascially followed the design manual. BP requires engineering for footings so i had walls and lintels, bearers and joist  etc done as well.
i used a building surveyor that had already approved a similar project in same area. so was just a box ticking exercise.
building surveyor questioned termite attack on all polystyrene products, refer post 31.
for all the walls you see in photos i have used 3 large cans of foam. just have to plan out where you need and work fast, if you keep moving and don't stop until can empty, you wont have any grief in nozzle blocking. (  1 can can be completely wasted if the foam sets in nozzle)
are you planing on building steel joists into wall or sit on individual piers.
send me a link when you get going, i'll be interested to see how you track.
feel free to send any question, happy to help.

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## Toolman70

I was going to put floor boards inside extension, but the weather ended up being excellent, so i started the render.
i paid my renderer to come and give me 101 lessons in rendering, so garage 2 faces are complete ready for colour texture.
i decided to used stick on mess, but i used the 10mm squares to get good render adhesion to the polystyrene. if smaller mesh used then the render has to go on first and then bed in the mesh.
instant gratification to see walls rendered.

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## timtoolman

just realized i was logged into wrong account. hence name changing.

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## Davenev

Thanks for all that: I thought you probably used the local product, and very pleased to hear your comments. No angles in our design, dimensions have been set as far as possible to match the fraction of the 200 block, but I'm still looking at getting a hot wire cutter as there will be a fair amount of cutting regardless. 
My thinking at the moment for the subfloor is to bolt a perimeter bearer to the blocks, with bearers and joists in the same plane as the perimeter bearer (I saw the exact bolts needed in BelairBoy's thread - where is he by the way, haven't seen any posts for a long time), and run the plywood flooring to the inner edge of the blocks, but your comments on white ants has made me think  a bit more about this issue.   
Hoping to avoid the need for too much bracing with the approach I'm planning, but the end result is the important thing, and I certainly don't want to risk blowouts and wavy walls.  I like the scissor lift approach! 
We're looking at using Hooblerstone or Veneer Stone for the external finish; I'm happy with render, but we have it at present and the boss is adamant about something different next time. Will need a good acrylic adhesive, and planning a light gal angle to provide the base support as well as line and level. 
It will be an OB job of course; there is one builder in the region who has built a couple of Thermacell homes, but he's too busy and prefers to handle the whole project himself unfortunately. 
Will set up a thread when we finish moving and our OS trip, and I can concentrate on the project; will certainly appreciate any suggestions and advice from this forum.

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## timtoolman

Dont bother with hot knife, i bought one, albeit poor quality. A $7 hand saw was best and quickest.
what i have bought though is a pistol grip soldering iron from radioparts which i then put copper electrical wire in and  have used for all rough ins and conduit placing. bend wire to desired shape. 
i have looked into the beam bolting to polystyrene, if you cut holes in polystyrene and allow concrete to fill to creat bearing pads for bolting bearer too then should be fine. If you dont you will compress the polystyrene and the bolt will become loose this will then allow the bolt to bend.
my subfloor very short so i built little brick piers to support bearers, i was going to use the polystyrene blocks but the piers would have been 400x200 inlieu of 230x110 brick. i bolted hoopiron to footing, laid bricks and nailed to bearer
If you use steel bearers you could cast into the wall and sit floorjoists on top. 
the shelf angle for stacked stone will need a lot of thought and additional mechanical fixings for stone. dont wont stacked stone becoming loose or drummy and falling on someone. 
all the best

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## timtoolman

render and internal flooring photos

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## timtoolman

busy couple of days,
electrician completed rough in.
i completed insulation and temporary framing (changes in stage 2)
completed eave sheet to garage
plasterer started today (typical messy)
plasterer finished today
garage and house now drying for a couple of days before sanding.
i rendered a couple of extra walls to back of garage and flutes to front fence.

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## timtoolman

Hi Craigandkate.
roofing contractor was complete steel roofing (mick), good contractor, i have used for years. they juggled this job due to size and the weather was aweful for the guys.
regards

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## timtoolman

been a couple of weeks between posts. weather has been ordinary. i have progressed slowly between the bad weather.
garage door installed
rendering starting to tidy up the look of the polystyrene
front fence coming together.

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## Davenev

Hi Tim: 
noticed your ventilation covers: they look like the normal brick inserts; just wondering if they are, and how you protected the airway from the poured concrete?

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## timtoolman

they are standard brick vents which i centred under windows to avoid the reo. unfortunately i had to hammer drill out after the concrete had cured, took about 10min per vent. i then rendered the inside of the hole to protect the exposed concrete and polystyrene, then inserted the vent during rendering.
the polystrene bridges within the wall made the hole quite easy. 
if it were solid construction i would have blocked out with polystyrene during pour. and then carve out when cured. special attention would also need to be taken to avoid airlock. 
cheers

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## timtoolman

some street photos of polystyrene fence.

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## SlowMick

Fence looks great.  what's the cladding going to be?

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## timtoolman

Hi Mick.
the metal frames are going to be clad with ekodeck screening, dark grey. photo's shortly.

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## timtoolman

Hi All.
been a couple of busy weeks, and rain delays.
fencing now complete. flutes have led lighting image needs a little work.
electric motors installed
landscaping commenced
made and installed new letterbox, dragged up driveway on skid as it weights 150kg, old letterbox dwarfed
next project, pool arrived.

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## SlowMick

The fence looks really good. Nice job.  You are certainly in no danger of finding your letter box destroyed or missing on a Sunday morning after the locals have had a big night.  I think it's very cool but alas my good lady wife would not be letting me have one like it.

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## turnstiles

Love that letter[S]box[/S]vault!! 
It's all looking terrific.

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## commodorenut

Your neighbours should have chipped in for that - nobody else needs a number out the front now!  Great for ensuring the Pizza isn't sent to the wrong house.... 
But on a serious note, I appreciate how the 4 became the design feature of the vault.  Very clever.  Have you thought about some LED strips to highlight it at night?

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