# Forum Home Renovation Plumbing  Plumbing in a rainwater tank - cost

## Mark CH

Hi All,
We're looking to take advantage of the federal government green loan program and part of that will be installing a couple of 4000-5000 litre rain water tanks that will be plumbed into toilets and possibly the laundry.  Can anyonw tell me a ball park figure for getting them plumbed in?  I know that the costs will be site specific but I'm just trying to work out how much all the different components that we can apply for will add up to.
Also, how much work can I do myself in relation to the harvesting of water off the roof into the tanks?  Do I need a plumber to do this work or can I do it and get him to check it and sign off for me?
Thanks in anticipation.
Cheerio,
Mark CH

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## wonderplumb

Call a few plumbers for quotes. Too hard to tell when it's in writing.

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## Danny

Hi Mark.
In your location, only a licensed plumber can do alterations to downpipes, guttering and house connections.
Plumbing to a toilet is ideal for year round use but plumbing to the laundry is often a waste of money. Your downpipes will probably each harvest an average 50 sq. of roofing. Melbourne's average rainfall has fallen from 650+ mm per year to around 500 mm in recent years and harvesting is never 100% efficient. Two downpipes will effectively harvest a yearly total of about 40,000 litres and the average laundry use is about 35,000 litres with a similar amount for the toilet. If you want to save water in the laundry,wait a few years and you will be able to wash a full load using only one cup (8oz.) of water! Home - Xeros *Other considerations:* Harvesting additional downpipes to a tank is illegal when the inflow capacity exceeds the tank's overflow capacity and pipes running along a wall are an eyesore.
Do not order your tank with low outlets as the pump may ingest sludge. Only have a dedicated drain valve at a low level.
Connecting a new tap to the pump is a wise move.
Inquire with a large, local tank or pump dealer for a recommended plumber. Get more than one quote.
Are both of your tanks going next to the house? *Three recommended sites for worthwhile information are:* Stainless Rainwater Tanks Pty. Ltd. - The first stainless steel tanks manufacturer in Australia
Advanced system designed to provide clean water to main tank. In particular, read the *clean water* page for no garbage information about rain heads, first flush diverters etc. Aquarius Watermaster
Downpipe diverter that has a first flush diverter and leaf diverter. Generates head pressure to allow feed through a tank's bottom inlet. Can be height adjusted to substitute as the tank's overflow, eliminating the need to plumb the overflow as the tank will never completely fill. SUPADIVERTA - syphonic rainwater diverter
Syphonic downpipe diverter with flush outlet, continuous sediment extraction and 750 micron debris filter. Removes air to generate high velocity flow through smaller polypipe. Can fill one tank, then automatically divert to a second. Can eliminate tank overflow and achieves unequalled yield of 97+%.
If height adjusted, both diverters can harvest water from several downpipes to the one tank. Plumber only needs to fit diverters, then plumb the pump and house connections. Householders can do all other (very easy) connections. Savings can be substantial and lots more water can be harvested. 
Danny

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## bricks

When we do residential pump installs, we can do it for about $400 bucks. With tank supplied and placed on site. That is with a cheap pump, only going to one toilet. And is for new houses that have already been set up during the building phase.
To give you a rough idea
materials for pump install are about $200
Plus your pump - $??
Finding and modifying the conection point to your house? 2-3 hours
Connect pump to house  1 - 2 hours 
As far as what you can do yourself. 
You can install the tanks, plumb gutters in, hardstand for pump etc. 
Work out where the plumber can get the water back into your house, 
That way the plumber only has to plumb from the tank to the pump, and the pump to the house. 
If your running your whole house you'll need a beefy pump - like a davey or grundfos - about $1000 - 1500. 
My out of my Ar*e estimate would be $2000 - $2500 to plumb your pump into your house. 
$1300 - pump
$700 - labour (1 day charge out)
$200 - fittings and misc materials 
You could be tight with the pump, and get a smaller one - best bet is to go on the davey or grundfos website and find the one that gives you what you need.   
You'll need power also - get an external GPO put in asap

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## up_the_gully

> Hi Mark.
> In your location, only a licensed plumber can do alterations to downpipes, guttering and house connections.
> Plumbing to a toilet is ideal for year round use but plumbing to the laundry is often a waste of money. Your downpipes will probably each harvest an average 50 sq. of roofing. Melbourne's average rainfall has fallen from 650+ mm per year to around 500 mm in recent years and harvesting is never 100% efficient.  *Other considerations:* Harvesting additional downpipes to a tank is illegal when the inflow capacity exceeds the tank's overflow capacity and pipes running along a wall are an eyesore.
> Danny

  
Danny, I must say I can't agree which much of what you've said - a washing machine which consumes 100 litres of water a day?  Mine uses 57L and it's run about 3 times a week.  A standard 3/6L dual flush toilet will use about 20-40 litres a day depending on use.  Most people who are looking at water tanks and saving water would also look into these aspects as well. 
Can't harvest water from additional downpipes, it's _illegal_?  Most plumbers will suggest this if it's feasible.  Of concern is the total amount of water volume if it rains heavy, shouldn't exceed the 90mm PVC or downpipes it's flowing through - this has more to do with square meterage of roofspace than anything else. 
Tankmasta tanks comes with dual 100mm overflow outlets to allow for this. 
Companies even suggest using multiple downpipes, see: Superhead First- Flush Rainwater Filter 
FYI I've got a 10,000L water tank mains connected, live in the dandenongs where it rains a fair bit, and for the last 6 months haven't seen our tank drop below 9,000 litres.  On top of that there are rebates which specify you need to connect both the toilet and laundry to the tank.  Also having it in the laundry means you can get access pressurised tank water from a tap inside the house (into a bucket for example). 
I was quoted about $800 to install a rainbank system (pre-purchased) from the tank and plumb into toilet/laundry, hope this helps Bricks.  Also recommend you think about pump placement as they can be noisy (think: flushing toilet at 2am).  Submersible pumps are much quieter =)

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## Terrian

cost few hundred $$, the plumber ran from the pump to the laundry & toilet (next to each other) and installed the mains back up (if we ever run out of water in the tanks), access for the plumber was easy, no crawling or anything like that!) 
The pump we have cost about $290, sure it only does about 60l per min, but it is only for toilet & laundry(and an outside tap later) http://www.supersoil.com.au/docs/sup...16m_advert.pdf
(disclaimer, I have nothing to do with super soil other than to have gotten decent prices for the tanks & pump!) 
We installed the tanks and diverted the downpipes to the tanks, and overflow from the tanks back to the stormwater, tank to pump line & power to the pump.

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## Terrian

> FYI I've got a 10,000L water tank mains connected, live in the dandenongs where it rains a fair bit, and for the last 6 months haven't seen our tank drop below 9,000 litres.

  We are at the foot of the Dandenongs, 2 x 5,500l tanks, in the last 6 months they have gotten as low as 300mm from the overflow  :Smilie:    

> Also recommend you think about pump placement as they can be noisy (think: flushing toilet at 2am).  Submersible pumps are much quieter =)

  our pump is next to the tanks, you hear it when it starts if you are outside, not too far from the tanks, and there is no other noise, like at 2am, but you can't hear it inside (and we are closer to the pump than any of the neighbors)

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## Danny

*up-the-gully*;- It is good to see your interest in water conservation.
Many householders have reduced their water consumption in the garden, bathroom and toilet and your purchase of a large tank,front loading washing machine and l also assume a dual flush toilet is commendable. Now back to what l wrote for Mark's benefit.
Your own washing machine's efficiency does not dictate statistical data and note l used the phrase; `*average yearly laundry use is about 35,000 litres'.
Melbourne Water* 2003 ETP Education Resource 17 paper stated that the average household laundry water use was 40,500 litres! Since then, things have improved due to persons like yourself upgrading to front loaders and some use of tank water. *Yarra Valley Water* quotes on its web site; `between 18,000 and 55,000 litres per year used for clothes washing, depending on type of washing machine and frequency of washing'. They further state 14% of household water is used in the laundry. *Save Water Target 155*;-The web site's *Saving Water At Home*  pie chart shows 22% for laundry use. At current household consumption, this is about 35,000 litres. *South East Water*;-  web page and brochure titled: How much water do you use? quotes 37,500 litres annual laundry use. *Our Water Our Future* website quotes 22% use in the laundry, again about 35,000 litres.
The recent increasing percentage of laundry use shown on some web sites reflects the lower household consumption savings in other areas due to the Target 155 campaign. Laundry water savings are much slower to effect. *Downpipes*; I wrote;- *harvesting additional downpipes to a tank is illegal when the inflow capacity exceeds the tank's overflow capacity.* Inflow/overflow = volume; whether some tanks have larger or dual outlets has nothing to do with it, nor has the roof area harvested; that determines the gutter and downpipe size. If the tank's overflow(s) match or exceed the inflow capacity including additional downpipes, then they can be legally diverted. I mentioned the fact due to my presumption that Mark, living in Doncaster, lived in a built up area. I have seen too many flooded yards and unhappy neighbours!
The point you made that *most plumbers* would suggest harvesting additional downpipes if its *`feasible'*, is correct, assuming that feasible also means legal! It would be incompetent for a plumber to breach plumbing regulations and plumb excessive water flow to a tank that could overflow into a neighbouring property. Victorian plumbers should also know that a vertical wall abutting a roof area is now included in the catchment area calculation.
You also wrote that *`there are rebates which specify you need to connect both the toilet and laundry to the tank'.* 
A $1,000 rebate for a tank or tanks of a capacity equal to or greater than 4,000 litres connected to both the toilet *and* laundry does exist. Apart from that, tanks can be connected to either the laundry *or* toilet for lesser rebates. Some tanks also attract a small rebate if not connected to either toilet or laundry.
Hope this clears up some confusion.

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## Mark CH

Morning All, Thanks for everyone's responses so far!  So, if Im reading this right; I can install the tank/s and connect the downpipes myself (both downpipes currently empty onto the garage that then drains to the stormwater so I could run pipes to tanks then tanks back out onto garage or straight into stormwater), power for the pump can be done my by brother-in-law who is a sparkie and then I get a plumber to install the pump and connect tanks to the toilets and/or laundry? Given we only really use 1 toilet (ensuite) and live by the motto "if it's yellow, let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down", the laundry seems to be the best option for major water savings.  We are always below the Target 155 for 2 people but SWMBO does around 6 washes per week. Access under the house is limited (between 300-450mm at that end of the house) and the pipes would have to come under a concrete pathway.  Should I do some of the trenching or leave it to the plumber? For just laundry and toilets will 40-50 litres per minute be enough pressure?  I have seen Pump King Australia pumps at this rate for around $200 or an Onga pump (40 litres per minute) for around $250.  Will either of these pumps be OK? Any further advice would be appreciated! Cheerio, Mark CH

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## bricks

Cheaper pumps won't last as long, but in most cases do work well. Just have the plumber buy an in line filter for the inlet side of the pump.

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## up_the_gully

> Morning All, Given we only really use 1 toilet (ensuite) and live by the motto "if it's yellow, let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down", the laundry seems to be the best option for major water savings.  We are always below the Target 155 for 2 people but SWMBO does around 6 washes per week. Access under the house is limited (between 300-450mm at that end of the house) and the pipes would have to come under a concrete pathway.  Should I do some of the trenching or leave it to the plumber?

  Mark.. 
Access under the house may be a bugger unless your toilet backs onto an external wall.  Depends how close your toilet / laundry are. 
Have you thought of how it will connect to the mains?  Normally you need a smart-switch (Onga water switch / davey rainbank) you can't just plumb it into the mains via a tee (or shouldn't!) unfortunately these cost a bit, like $800 - $1000 (with the pump). 
Really, i'd get a plumber to come around for a quote, without buying or installing anything as he may point some issues out that aren't obvious, or have a better recommendation.  Unfortunately most plumbers think in terms of "what will be the quickest way to ..." 
Here's the links to the 2 rebates you can get (at least in VIC). 
Federal - $500 Water for the Future: National Rainwater and Greywater Initiative 
State (VIC) - $1000 Our Water, Our Future - Eligible Products 
These are for a 4000+ litre tank, connected to laundry/toilet and signed off by a plumber. 
Cheers.

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## sundancewfs

If you are in the city of Knox any tank over 5000 litre needs planning permission. Just something to bear in mind .... 
Also the Federal tank rebate I think has a 6 month expiry from when you purchase the tank, so if you don't have it all connected up and a certificate of complience, with in that time you might miss that one.
I think you will find that ANY plumbing works in Victoria will need to be done by a plumber. This includes down pipes.Because you would be be effectively cutting into your stormwater between the gutters and your "legal point of discharge".

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## nww1969

Here on the Central Coast with water restrictions we get a lot of rebates from state and local councils. 
So a 5000l can almost be free.
One local nursery is offering a 5000l and has the breakdown costs and the installation component is $750
Must be connected to 1 toilet and washing machine and include council non return valve.

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## Terrian

> Have you thought of how it will connect to the mains?  Normally you need a smart-switch (Onga water switch / davey rainbank)

  only if you want auto main back up, otherwise you could easily just for a tap to switch to mains if your tanks runs out of water.   

> you can't just plumb it into the mains via a tee (or shouldn't!)

  double check non return on the mains line.   

> unfortunately these cost a bit, like $800 - $1000 (with the pump).

  our pump was a little under $300, the auto back up unit was $500 (which seems a lot, not much more than a float switch that, when the tank water level is low enough, switches the pump power off and opens a valve to allow mains water to flow)   

> Really, i'd get a plumber to come around for a quote, without buying or installing anything as he may point some issues out that aren't obvious, or have a better recommendation.  Unfortunately most plumbers think in terms of "what will be the quickest way to ..."

  can't really blame them for wanting to do the job the quickest way possible.

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## up_the_gully

> only if you want auto main back up, otherwise you could easily just for a tap to switch to mains if your tanks runs out of water. 
> double check non return on the mains line.

  Exactly, however i'm pretty sure it has to be an auto-backup switch to get any rebates.   

> can't really blame them for wanting to do the job the quickest way possible.

  No, but having said that quick jobs don't always equal good jobs - a guy I know spent all this money to get a qualified Green Plumber to install his water tank and mains/tank switch, and put an external pump on the back of a bedroom.  Whenever it clicks on the noise wakes up the person in the bed (eg. toilet flushes).  It works, but at the end of the day the plumber doesn't have to live with the system...

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## Terrian

> Exactly, however i'm pretty sure it has to be an auto-backup switch to get any rebates.

  pretty sure there is nothing about having the ability to auto switch to mains to get the rebate.   

> No, but having said that quick jobs don't always equal good jobs - a guy I know spent all this money to get a qualified Green Plumber to install his water tank and mains/tank switch, and put an external pump on the back of a bedroom.  Whenever it clicks on the noise wakes up the person in the bed (eg. toilet flushes).  It works, but at the end of the day the plumber doesn't have to live with the system...

  a number of options available to rectify that problem, but yes, someone didn't think too clearly about noise (or the pump is just one noisy bugger!)

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## Gravy258

I got the rebate with a manual changeover switch installed.
which is a few check valves and taps. Its all about backflow prevention. 
The rainbank auto switch pumps are a waste for me, if the tank gets that low its gonna take a few months till its useable again. 
I've got a Grundfos CH pump on the house and a el cheapo $200 bunnings pump for the garden. The bunnings pump sounds terrible compared to the super smooth grundfos. 
Gravy 
In the dead of night you'll hear any pump running.
If theres only you and the missus, get a switch installed by the dunny to knock out the pump power at night. You'll still have one flush left, which should see you OK. Works for us anyway.

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