# Forum Home Renovation The Garden Shed  Every shed needs a bench

## Moondog55

New post as this is a different bench.
First bench works well but not as substantial as this one needs to be
I have the ledgers set to the side walls and I have run stringers across to support the  top.
Back stringers
90*45 MGP10 spanning 2330mm at 600 and a packed 70*45 at the 300mm point. Because I have an offcut from the other bench one half of the bench will be 800mm deep and the other half 600mm deep.
A fourth stringer will run across the front of the 800deep section which is just over half the width at 1210mm wide. Question is on a post or posts to support this at the centre point and how many stiffeners I need to make sure this is solid and not going to bounce when I hit small things with a biggish hammer.
I have decided not to use the big Spotted Gum posts or the 150*150 Cypress and just use off-cuts of normal studs. 
Initial thought was a single set of stiffeners at the midpoint where the two sheets will join and a single 90*45 at the midpoint, then I thought that a vertically laminated pair of would be better but further thinking and I wonder if it would be better to use two posts, at 600 and 800 and if so do I nail it up like a short wall with a bottom plate?

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## cyclic

Sholdalearnttoweldandusedsteelwithtimberplanktop

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## Marc

Thereisanalternative ... CONCRETE!!!  :Rofl5:

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## cyclic

> Thereisanalternative ... CONCRETE!!!

  Chipsnadcracksifhittoohardandifyouweldonititexplod  es

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## Marc

Neeeee...use50MPAandfibrereinforcement. Bombshelterstrength

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## Moondog55

Jeez Ask a simple question and "Waadayagetbutthisstuff" 
Fair enough I'll just make it up as I go then. 
My welding sucks and I already have the timber but "Yes!" I did consider poured in place concrete.
I have to go and eat worms now.

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## Cecile

**waits to see who gets the reference**

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## cyclic

> **waits to see who gets the reference**

  Not bright enough to understand what that means but seriously, all work benches if made from timber should be bolted with bolts and nuts and washers.

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## Jon

> **waits to see who gets the reference**

  Nobody likes me, everybody hates me ?

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## Marc

> New post as this is a different bench.
> First bench works well but not as substantial as this one needs to be
> I have the ledgers set to the side walls and I have run stringers across to support the  top.
> Back stringers
> 90*45 MGP10 spanning 2330mm at 600 and a packed 70*45 at the 300mm point. Because I have an offcut from the other bench one half of the bench will be 800mm deep and the other half 600mm deep.
> A fourth stringer will run across the front of the 800deep section which is just over half the width at 1210mm wide. Question is on a post or posts to support this at the centre point and how many stiffeners I need to make sure this is solid and not going to bounce when I hit small things with a biggish hammer.
> I have decided not to use the big Spotted Gum posts or the 150*150 Cypress and just use off-cuts of normal studs. 
> Initial thought was a single set of stiffeners at the midpoint where the two sheets will join and a single 90*45 at the midpoint, then I thought that a vertically laminated pair of would be better but further thinking and I wonder if it would be better to use two posts, at 600 and 800 and if so do I nail it up like a short wall with a bottom plate?

  A picture is worth a thousand words Moon.
Your description may seem clear to you but I lose you about half way.  
A bench is not a house where you use span tables and consider flex and loads. Well you do, but you just use common sense and double up just in case. I have a bench like you described ... or i think anyway ... in my little shed under the house. It was built by the previous owner and I could park the car on it. Would I build another like it? Probably if I have the hardwood laying around. If I had to buy it not a chance. 
There are other considerations when building a bench like that. If you have hardwood and bolts from a demolition, you build the bench with that. If you have steel offcuts you use that. 
Check what you have for free and use that first. If something don't seem kosher, double up. Nothing worse than a flimsy bench. 
Take a picture and post it or make a sketch on a paper and photograph your artwork and post it. I want to be able to knock a shaft out of a pulley using a sledgehammer on my bench. Others may want to shave cedar in very fine layers, and have the top polished with orange oil. Horses for courses.  
Concrete is a perfectly good choice for a benchtop if the base is made with RHS or angle capable to support the top, and that means very substantial sections. Again, you don't go to the steel supplier and buy this new. You chose this way of construction if you have a pile of left over RHS in your backyard and possibly a forklift to move it.  
Back to your project, post a picture of your sketch and I tell you what I think for what it is worth.  :Smilie:  
Andtakeiteasy wehaveneoughstressasitiswiththiswretched virus pandemonium ...

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## Moondog55

Here are some bad pictures 
The LW bench on the East side uses 70*45 and Structaflor because it is for soldering and sewing use.
What I need some small help with is a more robust bench on the West side

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## Moondog55

I call them stringers because my cousin the chippie told me that's what they are called. 
I'm designating the short stringer at 800 off the wall as A
So my question is do I use a single post at A and make it a big one and rely on the stiffener to make the bench solid by using a bracket
OR
At A & B
OR
At A & C
OR
At A B & C using smaller section wood like off-cuts of 70*45 and some sort of stiffening skin like ply or OSB

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## Moondog55

Not sure what happened to the first pictures post.
Not sharing the Toll House Cookies

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## Bros

> 

  Biscuits are to soft for joining timber.

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## cyclic

> Biscuits are to soft for joining timber.

  C'mon, biscuit jointing was used for many years.

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## Bros

> C'mon, biscuit jointing was used for many years.

    And still is, but his biscuits???

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## Cecile

> And still is, but his biscuits???

  No.  They are MY biscuits.

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## Marc

I see ... When I am building a structure without data in relation to the materials I am using, I picture myself jumping up and down in different points of the structure and try to imagine what would happen and how will the structure collapse when taking the load to the extreme. (Even when I am not 120 kg) 
So think about your bench ... you have a ledger that is screwed, hopefully to the wall studs. So far so good, then you have the long rails, skew nailed to the ledger. That is a waste. those skew nails will not hold me up if I thread carefully. If I jump on them I will surely break a leg. More so if I eat all of Cecil's biscuits. 
So to me, the rails or longitudinal members should sit on top of the short ledger at one end, then sit on a series of cross members or stringers if you like.  And the stringers or cross member under them should sit on the long ledger at one end, and on a post on the other end. . In my opinion and from what I see in your photos, the structure of your bench is wrong, and it is not a question of underpinning each stringer with 3 post, Surely that would work too. You can support weak stringers with a dozen of post. Not the best way to build it but ... you can call it an alternative bench  :Smilie:  that is how kitchen cabinet are made.  
Get appropriate size cross members, 90x45, sit them on the ledger and on a 90x45 post and you will have a decent structure for your benchtop. Cut a rebate in the post and sit the stringer properly on the post. 
If you must use just 70 x 45, the same principle must apply. Two points of support for each stringer, ledger and post. 
Rail must sit on short ledger against the wall and on all stringers.  
I notice that in one photo you have no rail at all at the edge of your bench. That is ok if you don't want an apron along the edge of the bench, but you can only do so if you benchtop is a true macho benchtop, like 25mm ply for example. otherwise, you need a rail at the edge too. THe edge of the bench is the part that takes the most abuse. 
if you follow my advice, you will need to reposition both ledger to a different hight.

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## Moondog55

Marc you have picked up on the two different depths of the bench, it will be 800 and 600 50/50
32mm HMR actually on the 600 section
Won't be skew nailed as I have an 8mm 4.6 bolt going vertically down as suggested above. Into studs yes but also into a horizontal structural support and each stringer is  supported by 2 HT screws going into the smaller ledger either side on the bolt + support clearance, sort of worked that out after taking the pix. So the way I worked it out in my head is that the solid Jarrah ledger on the RHS / North  is taking a lot of the weight of the top, and the secondary ledger is holding the stringers in place. Ditto the LHS/South.
The 70*45 is for stiffening I guess as the weight on the West should be well supported by that 290 * 35 composite beam running against the wall, you need to look well as it uses the same OSB as the wall is lined with, it blends in but is under that hammer head.
 It was going to be build differently but it turned out to be a little too tall for comfort. Maybe I was wearing high heels the first time I set it up?
So I can't move the ledgers, too many bolts and screws and too much glue used.
So which of these two then Marc? The 140 * 45 F17 on edge and stiffened with a second stud or the Jarrah 3*5 post rebated? Or both??
 I was going to use the 140 because the offcut just needs a bees dick trimmed off it to fit.
You are partly right tho as I was thinking of building it like a cabinet

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## Marc

Mate ... had you written this description in Esperanto, I may have had less difficulty understanding your drift. 
I agree the 140x45 will do what you want. 
Post some pictures.  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

In the end I have gone for 3 shorts in 70*45 plus a stiffener in 90*35 at the front, more than rigid enough. I will need to dynabolt the bottom plate. If I can find them today I will get it finished. Glueing the sheets together just used the last of my yellow glue

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## cyclic

You don't need dynabolts when you got one of these, and it makes lots of noise.
22 or 25 caliber charges.

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## Marc

Ha ha ... I have one with 45 ACP  :Smilie: 
Use Ankascrews not dynabolts. Don't go all OCD on the anchoring to concrete. After all the weak link is not the anchoring but the screws between post and bottom plate. 
The bench looks good and plenty strong despite it's inordinately complicated conception.  :2thumbsup:

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## Moondog55

So I also now need some new non-conductive shelves on which to store speaker drivers. If I use battens on each end and two brackets what's going to be my best shelf value?
I was thinking of getting a sheet of cheap 17mm CD and having it ripped to the sizes I need but if 15mm will do I can save $12- 
Maximum shelf depth will be 480mm and the span between walls is 2400 less a tiny bit and the brackets are at 900 from each end. Other shelves will be 300mm and less.
Going to 19mm is only an extra $20- but means driving out my area and I'd rather not do that

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## Moondog55

I went with the 17mm in the end
Bunnings was very quiet so no charge for ripping to shelf sizes, if I need to stiffen the edges I'll get some 42*19 hardwood later on. Everybody be careful about social distancing and few more people wearing masks and LOTS of hand sanitiser everywhere. No P1 masks tho but I was told they are on the way

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## Moondog55

Getting there slowly.
Also slowly moving drivers from the house to the shed so Cecile can have here cupboard back

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## Bros

Should put a length of timber on the edge of the ply to stop it bending over time.

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## Moondog55

> Should put a length of timber on the edge of the ply to stop it bending over time.

  Yes Although I've done that on the top shelf I only had a single length of hardwood so I did the one that is hardest to reach, I'll pick up a length on my next trip, maybe next week. I'll probably batten the rear too; just as a precaution.
I have a cheap IKEA shelf unit that needs more shelves so I do have another trip to do, pine battens and some pre-cut panels so it gets done fast

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## Bros

You don't need hardwood just some 40 x 20 pine on its edge.

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## phild01

> I have a cheap IKEA shelf unit that needs more shelves so I do have another trip to do, pine battens and some pre-cut panels

  Watch out for that idiot Shane Patton, he might slap you with a $1700 fine.

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## Moondog55

> You don't need hardwood just some 40 x 20 pine on its edge.

  New yes but HW was what I had, salvaged from an old wardrobe going to rubbish

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## Moondog55

Shelves?
So after Um-Hing and Ah-Hing [ The well know Chinese Zen Procrastinators] for a few days I decided not to build new shelves from scratch using timber because that would take me another 3 weeks and just bought a cheap Rack-It  from the Big Green Shed. 2100H * 1800W * 600D should be almost enough space for the camping  and mountaineering equipment.

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## Marc

What do you do with all those speakers? Do you fix them? (Don't tell me "I speak back at them"  :Smilie:  )

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## Moondog55

My hobby is speaker building. Not that I have build any while the renovations have been happening but I hope to start building again very soon.

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## Marc

How do you shape the cones?

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## Moondog55

I don't build drivers, which is what you see, I assemble speakers. Like these stereo speakers in the lounge room and the subwoofers to handle the low bass and allow the top end to play cleaner.

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