# Forum Home Renovation Home Theatres  Installing a new surround sound system - What Speaker Wattage/size to use??

## dabba

Hi, 
I have just finished installing the wiring for a 5.1 surround sound system.
I already have the surround sound (rear) speakers wall recess mounted (x2 Studio Acoustics SA360a, 80W, 8Ohm, 2 way).
16 Gauge speaker wire has been installed. TV size 65" LED Flat screen (LG)
The dimensions of the room are as follows: 
Length (TV to seating area) -  7m
Width of room - 3.4m 
(See attached sketch)  
For the front and centre speakers, and Sub; what size of speakers (wattage, qty etc) would people recomend? And also I havent bought a receiver yet, again any recomendations where to start at?
For the front speakers im probably looking at tower speakers (requirment from the wife is that they are aesthetically pleasing!). We did consider wall mounted for the front two, but I believe you lack the 'umpf' from a wall mounted recess speaker..?
Regards the receiver, requirments are minimum x3 HDMI in and one A/V in, and connectivity to a home network (ethernet or wireless). 
Im looking at a budget of a $1K for the lot: x3 speakers, sub and receiver. Im not that savvy with the various brands out there, to be honest I was hoping to pop down to the local JBHIFI and get the job lot... 
Any tips or advice would be appreciated. 
Thanks,
Dabbba

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## FrodoOne

> Hi, 
> I have just finished installing the wiring for a 5.1 surround sound system.
> I already have the surround sound (rear) speakers wall recess mounted (x2 Studio Acoustics SA360a, 80W, 8Ohm, 2 way).
> 16 Gauge speaker wire has been installed. TV size 65" LED Flat screen (LG)
> The dimensions of the room are as follows: 
> Length (TV to seating area) -  7m
> Width of room - 3.4m 
> (See attached sketch)  
> For the front and centre speakers, and Sub; what size of speakers (wattage, qty etc) would people recomend? And also I havent bought a receiver yet, again any recomendations where to start at?
> ...

  I tremble to respond to your posting. 
You stated "_I already have the surround sound (rear) speakers wall recess mounted (x2 Studio Acoustics SA360a, 80W, 8Ohm, 2 way)."_ I note that these are somewhat "basic" speakers - suitable for background effects._
"__16 Gauge speaker wire has been installed."_  Presumably, that is AWG 16, which is 1.31 mm2 and, in  the real terms, which we can understand in Australia, the capacity of those conductors is somewhat higher than that required by any ceiling lights supply (i.e. over 10 amps)  Hence (in my opinion), it is "overkill" for background speakers.) 
You state that "I'm looking at a budget of $1K for the lot"
Sorry, mate. 
 The rule-of-thumb for sound systems is that you should spend at least half your budget on quality speakers/enclosures. The way you seem to be proceeding is not going to approach this. 
Somewhere in this budget it appears that you intend to fund a "Receiver"  (I do know what you mean by that)  with a minimum of  x3 HDMI in and one A/V in, and connectivity to a home network (ethernet or wireless).  Prices for quality devices such as these seem to start at about $800 and then go upwards! 
So, again, I wish you "Good Luck" 
I do so hope that someone will contradict me in that which I have written so that I can benefit from their superior knowledge.
I would love to obtain a $1000 system such as you appear to envisage.

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## dabba

Wow, where do I start... 
Thank you for such a non-constructive response... !!! You could have simply said "you will be difficult obtaining a setup with that budget..." 
I thought the idea of this forum was for people who are not necessarily a trade or familiar with a particular project but are having a go at a renovation or some other DIY task and are after some advice from so called experts. Obviously you see it as a platform to be as unhelpful as possible... 
Trying to take some positive from your response (if possible)
Yes, I'm probably at the budget end of a home theater system initially and not looking to install an 'IMAX' in my home anytime soon. The speakers were a gift (approx $250-$300 in jbhifi) and the speaker wire size apparently will handle the wire runs (no greater than 15m). 
My initial question was "what speaker spec should I be looking at (wattage) of the front three speakers to maybe suit the room size?" Irrespective of cost, im not in a rush and can always wait and build the setup over time. 
Ps regards you becoming unfamiliar with the term 'receiver', have a Google on various home theatre web sites. You will find its the term they refer to for the amplifier... 
So, if you have anything positive or constructive to add, then by all means please do; otherwise don't waste my time 
Thanks    
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## r3nov8or

I reckon your current rears will be fine for surround effects. You have a choice of buying everything else separately (fronts, centre, sub, receiver), or buy a full HT and sell or reuse the supplied rears in in a book shelf stereo or PC setup in another area of the house. 
e.g. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-home-en...system/429584/
This should easily full your room with enough sound to annoy the neighbours, and this pdf suggests it has all the inputs you require. http://www.harmankardon.com/images/m...1510_OM_EN.pdf 
This is an 8 Ohm system so again your current rears suit this. It's $400 over budget but, again, you will have some decent spare bookshelf speakers. What I would not recommend is a set of those skinny tall speakers that have tiny speakers. Just don't do it. If the above is too much over budget, I suggest you get the best receiver and fronts for your money, and add a centre and sub down the track. 
I would also suggest you move the sofa forward so you are a maximum of 4m from your 65" screen. This will enhance your viewing greatly, and also improve the surround effects from your rears.

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## ChocDog

dabba, with that budget in mind, I would be aiming to purchase 2nd hand. Try to divide your budget to spend as much as possible on the speakers. This is what is important. The problem though is that one mans trash is another mans treasure when it comes to speakers (ie some people like overly bright characters, others dont). So going into a showroom and back to backing your speaker options can be very handy in this regard. Buying 2nd hand you dont have this option. You’re going to have to read reviews and take a punt. But that said, with only a grand to divide up, you are going to be very limited in your ability to get a 'high quality' sound, so maybe not that useful and the end of the day when looking at new units. You'll be surprised by some of the very high quality speakers that turn up on ebay. Have never gone this route myself, but wouldnt be opposed to it. 
Also, dont limit yourself to towers. Personally I believe they are overkill for (most) people in their home. Bookshelves can (and do)  provide exceptional sound. Especially when paired with a quality sub. How loud do want this system with high quality response? Again, regarding bang for buck, you'll get, for the same price, a higher quality bookshelf than your will a tower. If you manly listen at lower volumes (ie not annoying the neighbourhood) I would be looking at bookshelves.  
Re amps/receivers I, IMHO, think that Yamaha are the best bang for your buck quality units. 
For example a RXV863 for $300 is great value Yamaha RX V863 7 1 Channel 440 Watt Receiver in Lilydale, VIC 027108930053 | eBay
It was RRP1900 when new… I have the 463 in our bedroom and its more than adequate. 
No LAN though. Personally I run a dedicated media server (a HTPC) to provide a much better interface for my networked media. 
I get the feeling the Moondog is a bit of an audiophile, so hopefully he’ll also provide you some good direction.

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## r3nov8or

I did forget to add that you should definitely audition your short list. My quip about annoying the neighbours was just that, a quip. It is far more important to achieve pleasing audio at reasonable levels.

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## Moondog55

Not sure if I should say "thanx" or not ChocDog. 
Dabba I'm going to tell you straight up that you've already stuffed up by using a wire gauge that won't be up to the job if you ever want to upgrade. 
Good planning and good sound is to use exactly the same speakers for all channels and to use a slightly different budget scenario 
First off at what SPL will you listen to movies? That is a big room to fill to THX specifications without distortion and distortion is what kills good listening in a good environment
I suggest at least one third of the budget be used for room treatment. the rest being divided equally between the speakers and the ancillaries.
 You get far more information from the Audio in a movie than you do from the video so I would have said that the audio side should cost more than the screen NOT counting the effects speakers [ the sub-woofers which should only handle effects bass; i:e that sound below 80 Hz and which is usually mixed in at +3 to + 6 dB] and you really need many more than one subwoofer. 3 subs is good 5 to 7 is much better
We have 5 for our room here as I have removed a couple and our room is much smaller
Yes you do need to move the couch forward, the rear speakers should be at least a meter behind the listening position and more would be better
Have you only wired for 2 rear speakers? 7.1 is far more realistic if you can afford to upgrade in the future.
To give you the bad news and not waffle on any more $1k- isn't enough, that would cover the subs needed to fill that room to realistic listening levels and leave you no money for anything else. 
If you only want noise without information which is what you get with most HTIAB systems then a grand will do it but nothing left over for heavy curtains and floor rugs or bass traps etc
Yes I take my music and sound seriously

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## r3nov8or

If you want Moondog's specs, go to the cinema instead. They've done all the hard work. You'll have a lot of money left over for pop corn and even treat yourself to a choc top, and they will vacuum afterwards  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

> If you want Moondog's specs, go to the cinema instead. They've done all the hard work. You'll have a lot of money left over for pop corn and even treat yourself to a choc top, and they will vacuum afterwards

  Actually the sound at most theatres isn't all that good; just loud      
i

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## r3nov8or

> Actually the sound at most theatres isn't all that good; just loud

  So in that case dabba can indeed spend about $1000 to get near-cinema sound  :Smilie:

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## Moondog55

Second hand is the way to go. 3 cheap but not over driven subs sound way better than one good one driven into distortion

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## Moondog55

Good second hand is possible as a lot of people are downsizing their speakers for some reason 
For example  Floor Standing Speakers Centre Surround Left AND Right With Sansui SUB Woofer in McCrae, VIC | eBay

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## woodbe

> Actually the sound at most theatres isn't all that good; just loud

  I tend to agree, but aren't they mostly THX certified these days? 
Makes me think that maybe THX isn't really a goal we should chase for home theatre. We have 5 channels, but I have to say we generally watch with 3 fronts + Sub. Maybe when we finish renovating the room I will install permanent rears.

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## Moondog55

> I tend to agree, but aren't they mostly THX certified these days? 
> Makes me think that maybe THX isn't really a goal we should chase for home theatre. We have 5 channels, but I have to say we generally watch with 3 fronts + Sub. Maybe when we finish renovating the room I will install permanent rears.

  A lot of theatres can comply with THX and still not have good sound quality but it is a minimum to aim for. We only have 5.***** because the room is too small to utilise anything else
For those who don't know most HT amplifiers can drive at least half a dozen subs easily by using Y connectors
THX speciifes a downwardly tilted HF response and a minimum SPL of 85dB plus 20dB peak Which is HUGE; if you only need a tenth watt for that 85dB you need thousands for that 20dB peak as dB is a logarithmic scale, remembering that 135dB is a jumbo jet taking off from a meters distance +/- 
To answer one of your questions dabba 6 inch woofers are a reasonable compromise between SQ and SPL although I really prefer 3 -way systems for midrange clarity you won't get that with your budget, anything with a speaker less than 5 inch diameter won't give enough loudness with power handling to match

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## dabba

Thanks all for your responses, a lot to take in and i may just review my budget options prior to purchasing. 
Appreciated   
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## r3nov8or

Go and have a listen to some systems in and around your budget. Audio is a lot like art - "I don't know much about art but I know what I like". My opinion - don't go nuts and be happy with what you get. Getting drawn into an ongoing upgrade path for the perfect system and room treatment is expensive and is a case of severely diminishing returns.

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## Moondog55

> Go and have a listen to some systems in and around your budget. Audio is a lot like art - "I don't know much about art but I know what I like". My opinion - don't go nuts and be happy with what you get. Getting drawn into an ongoing upgrade path for the perfect system and room treatment is expensive and is a case of severely diminishing returns.

  While the diminishing returns kick in reasonably early [ say from about $4k- ] room treatment is usually the biggest bang for the dollar. Room treatment can be as simple and as cheap as a big heavy wall hanging and thick curtains on the windows. 
I build my own speakers so I often lose sight of how expensive factory audio can be for reasonable SQ combined with SPL 
I do stand by my initial advice tho, make sure all the speakers in the system are the same; it really makes a difference and is the most important thing in making a choice
 So if you have the in-wall speakers there simply buy 3 more and use them in wall on in small sealed boxes. If you wanted to in the future simply upgrade the system.
Just make sure when setting up the amplifier you set the system to "SMALL" when selecting the speakers; this will route the bass as well as the SFX to the subwoofers, this will make the over-all balance of the system much smoother.
PM me if you want some technical help on the speaker boxes and alignment but boxes for those in-wall speakers is relatively simple, but do not be conned into buying centre speakers that are wide with the tweeter in the middle, much better to use exactly the same speaker orientation as the Front L/R it is also very important that the tweeter of the three front speakers are as close to a horizontal line as possible, an argument for using small bookshelf speakers which I don't usually use myself but which makes sense given the rears you have chosen.

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## dabba

Thanks again for the tips!!  
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Moondog55

I'd like to know how you get on with this Dabba so keep in touch as you do the work

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